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Theodore Roosevelt: Master Mason

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The video introduces Theodore Roosevelt as a Master Mason whose life and public service were profoundly shaped by the principles of Freemasonry. Hosted by Ira Drifus from the Patriot Lodge at George Mason University, the discussion features William Hansen from the Theodore Roosevelt Center in North Dakota, who explains how TR's early struggles with severe asthma and heart issues led him to adopt a "strenuous life" of physical activity. This transformation laid the groundwork for his diverse career as a cattle rancher, politician, war hero, and eventually the 26th U.S. President. The narrative highlights that while Masonry is often understudied, it was an extremely important aspect of TR's personal and professional identity, influencing his character from his initiation in 1900 until his death in 1919. Roosevelt joined the Freemasons in Oyster Bay, New York, shortly after becoming Vice President, a move that some contemporaries viewed with suspicion due to his rapid progression through the degrees. However, his wife Edith actively supported his involvement by donating items like walking sticks made from White House wood and artifacts from the USS Maine for lodge auctions. TR was known for his exceptional preparation, once correcting examiners during his initiation ritual who asked incorrect questions. The video emphasizes that Masonry provided him with a framework for equality and fellowship, allowing him to interact with people of all social standings—from gardeners to presidents—on common ground without the usual social barriers, fostering a sense of brotherhood that he believed was essential for a healthy society. The influence of Masonic symbolism is most clearly seen in Roosevelt's domestic policy known as the "Square Deal," which focused on corporate regulation, consumer protection, and conservation. The speaker argues that the square tool used in Masonry, representing morality, honesty, and accuracy, likely influenced TR's legislative approach to ensure a fair playing field for all citizens regardless of wealth or background. Furthermore, his strong stance on religious tolerance and social equality was deeply rooted in Masonic teachings; he famously wrote to a bigoted politician asserting that every individual must be treated with respect regardless of their creed, whether Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, or agnostic. This philosophy extended to his belief that the Masonic ideal of treating each man on his merits as a man was crucial for the safety and progress of a republic. Despite facing some backlash from religious groups who viewed Freemasonry negatively, Roosevelt maintained that the craft's practical lessons in self-respect and mutual aid were vital for solving social problems. The video notes that while he did not have a Masonic funeral, his legacy within the fraternity remains significant, with many members proud of his membership. Throughout his presidency and beyond, TR continued to visit lodges globally, including in Africa and South America, though his busy schedule meant he could not always attend every event. Ultimately, the presentation concludes that Theodore Roosevelt's life serves as a powerful example of how Masonic values can be applied to government and public service, promoting a society where individuals lift each other up through respect, fairness, and shared moral ideals.
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My name is Ira Drifus. I'm the master of the Patriot Lodge here at George Mason University. We've been here about 13 years. We're a fairly new lodge. We're an academic lodge as I mentioned earlier and that means that we sort of specialize in academic level research. The other thing is we're affiliated with the university. So a lot of our everybody here is in some way affiliated with actually DMU either as a student, an alum, a professor. We've had administrative staff from time to time, things like that. I, for instance, and an alum and also a student because I'm on the free Gazer program and in Virginia, anybody over 60 can attend college for free. And so they have to put up with me in Spanish class. I have a big interest in Teddy Roosevelt, especially the man in the arena thing because that resonates so much with our lodge with Freemasonry in general. Now, you are not a Freemason. Correct. Correct. So, we won't tell you any Masonic secrets and you promise not to divulge them if we did. Okay. Absolutely. You can trust me. I thought so. Uh, William Hansford is with the Petty Ros Theore Roosevelt Center at Dickinson State University in North Dakota where I think it's still winter a little bit starting to warm up. Okay. And 25 now. That is one of the major research centers. Of course, uh, when Theodore Roosevelt was but a youngish man, he was roaming all over the rest, hurting cattle and getting in fist fights. He was that kind of a guy. And after his transformation, Mr. Hansen, Mr. Hansen has promised has has agreed to talk with us about Teddy Roosevelt and his Freemasonry and how it influenced his life on a personal and professional level. And on that, the show's yours. Fantastic. Thank you very much for that introduction and thank you all for for having me today. I really appreciate being invited to to speak to you. Uh it's interesting because masonry is a pretty underststudied aspect of TR's life, but it was extremely important to him. He really devoted a lot to it. Um and I ended up finding a lot more information about that than I expected to find. Um so we're going to go through some of that today. If you'll give me just a moment, I will get my screen shared and we will be all set. So today we're going to talk about Theodore Roosevelt, Master Mason, how the principles and fellowship of masonry influenced the 26th president of the United States. Before we talk about masonry specifically, I do want to give you the briefest overview of TR in general as a person, some basic information about him. Um he was born in Manhattan 1858. He's a very curious and intelligent child, but he's very sickly. Uh he suffers from debilitating asthma so bad they thought it might kill him. Um he suffers from congenital heart issues, from stomach problems, what they called chalera at the time. Um, and so as a young boy, a young man, he will take up exercise, outdoorsmanship, hunting, physical activities, the strenuous life, you may have heard to help him overcome some of these issues. And indeed it does. The story is a little more complicated than that, but this strenuous life really, really helps him. Um, his education, he will be homeschooled as a child, uh, tutored by family. He will have an eye to naturalism, to natural history. Um but then when he goes to Harvard he will gravitate more toward history and law and politics. He will graduate magnaum laad and go to Columbia law school but drops out of Colombia uh when he is elected to the New York State Assembly. Uh his public service uh credits are long numerous. In addition to assemblyman he serves in the New York National Guard. He serves as the a United States Civil Service Commissioner, the New York Police Commissioner. uh assistant secretary of the navy uh from which position he will resign to fight in the SpanishAmerican war uh as the leader of the first volunteer cavalry cavalry regiment better known as the rough riders. Uh he will use that uh fame as a war hero to catapult him into uh the governorship of New York. Um then the politicians in New York who see him as too much of a reformer will kick him upstairs into the vice presidency where he will be powerless until President McKinley is assassinated and he becomes president of the United States in 1901. Uh his home will be uh on Long Island uh uh Oyster Bay, Long Island. He calls it Sagamore Hill. And this is sort of a a country farm estate on Long Island. And that's uh where this picture of him you see here was taken. Uh and as was mentioned earlier, he was also a cattle rancher for a brief period of his life and a cattle a ranch investor in North Dakota, which is why the Theodore Roosevelt Center is here in Dickinson, North Dakota in the the southwestern part of our state. Um very briefly, long list of accomplishments as president. He will mediate in a major labor strike for the first time as president. will establish the Department of Commerce and Labor, which will later be separated. Uh he will conserve 230 million acres of public lands with national parks, national forests, game preserves, monuments, so on and so forth. He establishes the US Forest Service. Um he will take control of the Panama Canal. That project had begun under the French but was floundering. Um the construction will be completed a decade later. He's actually the first president to travel abroad while in office when he goes to visit the Panama Canal Zone and the construction taking place. Uh he will be the first American to win the Nobel Peace Prize for negotiating peace in the RussoJapanese War. He signs the Pure Food and Drug Act. Uh he will send the American Navy to circumn the globe. Uh the list goes on and on. He's a prolific author. He writes about 35 or 40 books depending on you how you count the different volumes and additions. Uh dozens of magazine articles and more than 150,000 letters over the course of his life. He will go on adventures in Africa, in South America. Uh he will survive an assassin's bullet in 1912. uh he just lives his life to the absolute fullest until he uh dies in his sleep from a pulmonary embolism at the age of 60 at his home in New York. So with that, let's talk about TR as a Mason. Um he will be first introduced to masonry in 1899 uh when he is the governor of New York and he is uh attending public events. He's attending drill corps events uh in his capacity as the governor of New York. Um and later uh when he is initiated, he will give a speech crediting these public events as actually one of the things that impresses him and leads him to join the Freemasons. Um he will be recommended for membership by William J. Youngs who was a lawyer and a politician in New York, one of his neighbors. Uh, and Youngs will also serve as his private secretary while he while Roosevelt is governor. Um, and the Young's family is very prominent in Oyster Bay. The Young's Memorial Cemetery is where Roh Roosevelt and his wife Edith will be buried later. Uh, Roosevelt is balloted on December 12th, 1900 and initiated as an entered apprentice on January 2nd, 1901. Uh, by which time he had moved from being the governor of New York to the vice presidentelect. Uh he is entered into the Matino Lodge uh in Oyster Bay, New York. Um this is on the third floor of the Oyster Bay Bank building which is actually a very important uh space to Roosevelt. It's where his secretaries will conduct a lot of his business on other floors of the building as well. Um and you see on that uh petition there um those names that you see are several other prominent people of Oyster Bay and prominent uh Freemasons of the time as well. Um and also again his neighbors on these other estates on Long Island. Um but this becomes an important part of his life basically from the very beginning. Um and he will start to move through the degrees very quickly. Um he also is going to have some support from his wife in doing this and that becomes an important part of it as well. He has a very uh strong mature healthy relationship with his second wife Edith. His first wife died tragically shortly after childbirth in 1884. Um his second wife will actively support the Masons and she will donate items to be sold to be auctioned at public fairs. Um, some of the items I was able to find records of was a doll that uh the group who who uh who took it on was they named it Ruth Roosevelt. Um, she donated walking sticks made of wood from the White House after it was renovated and wood from the USS Maine that had been blown up in Havana Harbor. Um, a pair of beaded moccasins as well. Um, and there were probably other items as well that I simply didn't see uh records for. A lot of this will actually come from uh a Masonic magazine, Masonic Standard in New York. Um, and we'll see that as we move through. I've actually pulled some some quotes from them. I found a lot of information in that magazine which was really really useful. Um, so for the uh the passing uh into the second degree and raising into the third degree, he does this very quickly within a matter of weeks. And from the very beginning, there are actually concerns from some Masons that Roosevelt is going to ret uh receive some special treatment. Um, and without reading that whole quote I've got there, um, toward the end, it says, "There will be no special dispensations and no three degrees in one night business. Teddy will feel more at home in the Senate as a Mason, a majority of the senators being members of the craft." Um, so there are those who see this as as logical, as it's good to welcome Roosevelt uh into their brotherhood. Um so he will be passed into the fellowcraft degree on March 27th of 1901 just a few weeks after he is inaugurated as vice president under McKinley. Uh and he was so well prepared for his exam that the the uh the story goes that he will correct his examiners who ask an incorrect question of him during the ritual. Um and there's actually sort of a moment of silence uh and they have to go and and look and see and it turns out they they were in fact incorrect in what they had asked. Uh Roosevelt was a very very studious man and he was very very well prepared. Uh he will then be raised as a master mason on April 24th 1901. Um and there's a legend here that I haven't been able to verify but it's an amazing story so I wanted to tell it. Uh this legend is that uh there were so many people there. The stairs up the Oyster Bay Bank building were so crowded that they literally physically raised him over people's heads and carried him up the stairs to uh to the lodge. Um again, I I haven't found any primary sources that that back this story up. Uh but boy, I I hope it's true because it is a really amusing story. Um Roosevelt's right-hand man, William Lobe Jr. will be his uh his instructor for all three of his degrees. Um Lobe was first his private secretary and later his presidential secretary. He's one of his closest adviserss, closest friends, and he will will help him through this process. Um and Roosevelt will take mason masonry very seriously. You see this picture of him here. Um this is 1912, so many years later. Uh he is at the Masonic Temple in Spokane, Washington there uh wearing his uh his uh masonry garb there. So let's talk about how this influences some of his his life and his his policies and how he carries himself. Um and in particular, I want to talk about the square deal. um because the square deal is perhaps the most important uh uh concept principle by which Roosevelt governs. Uh and it's the the name that's usually given specifically to his domestic legislative program. Um and historians often will divide this into three C's. this is not the way he did it but others often will say that it's corporate regulation, consumer protection and conservation of public lands are these sort of three pillars uh that are part of the square deal. Um, and I have seen it argued, I would say pretty plausibly that perhaps the idea of the square deal was influenced by the Masonic symbolism of the square. Uh, the steel square as a tool of accuracy, uh, as a symbol of morality, honesty, so on and so forth. Um, I, you know, do I think that was the only factor that led him to sort of think about this square deal? No. Do I think it's possible that was on his mind? Absolutely I do. Um and the square deal is certainly something that even if he wasn't consciously thinking of it very much align with those kinds of values uh that he's learning as a Mason. Um he will say uh in one of his famous sort of square deal speeches at the New York State Fair in 1903 by this time he is president and he will say we must act upon the motto of all for each and each for all. There must be everpresent in our minds the fundamental truth that in a republic such as ours, the only safety is to stand neither for nor against any man because he is rich or because he is poor, because he is engaged in one occupation or another, because he works with his brains or because he works with his hands. We must treat each man on his worth and merits as a man. We must must see that each is given a square deal because he is entitled to no more and should receive no less. So this this level playing field, right? This this uh very very even-handed treatment of everyone, this fair and honest treatment of everyone is something that Roosevelt believes in so so strongly. And that's certainly an aspect of his life that is being influenced by masonry, I would argue. Um, again, probably not the only factor, but there's no doubt that it is one and that it's something that he is considering. Um, so Roosevelt will deliver multiple addresses at lodges or at least send letters often when he can't attend lodges, but he will uh uh attend lodges all over the world. Uh so in addition to Oyster Bay, New York and Washington DC, uh he goes to uh a lodge in Africa, in South America. Uh in 1916 in Trinidad, in the Caribbean, uh he finds lodges wherever he can find them. So it is important to him. Uh but he has of course got great demands on his time and resources. So it's not something he's always able to do. Um, but when he speaks to the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania in 1902, uh, he really lays out to him what masonry means to him and how it influences him. Uh, and this is the cesquisentennial of the initiation of George Washington into Freemasonry. Uh and on this occasion he will say one of the things that attracted me so greatly to masonry that I hailed the chance of becoming a mason was that it really did act up to what we as a government and as a people are pledged to of treating each man on his merits as a man. Masonry teaches and fosters in the man the qualities of self-respect and self-help. The qualities that make a man fit to stand by himself. And yet it must foster in everyone who appreciates it as it should be appreciated the beautiful and solemn ritual. It must foster in him a genuine feeling for the rights of others and for the feelings of others. So it's interesting here, right, that there's uh there's definitely some some high morality and high ideals here, but it's also very practical for him, right? This is something that makes sense for people and government to do. It just that this is how we raise each other up and function as a society is to behave this way toward each other and treat each other fairly and help each other when we need it. Um and to respect both ourselves and others. And this is something again you will see this theme over and over again in most speeches that he's giving especially during his presidency. This is really important to him. Now there is some backlash as you might have imagined might have expected to uh tr becoming a Mason in particular. There's backlash from the Catholic community at the time. Um, and I found one particular reprinted uh uh uh quote here that I thought was was very strong. Um, and this uh Catholic newspaper editor says, "When President Roosevelt asserts that masonry must make the best type of American citizenship, he offers a positive and brutal insult to the millions of his fellow citizens who are not members, thank God, of the diabolical craft. His shallowness and masonic enthusiasm may preclude him from recognizing the offense, but it is there. Again, the social problems which are forcing themselves for solution cannot be settled by any principles or lessons of masonry. These problems are the result of man's departure from God's truth and the infraction of God's law. Now, that being said, I don't think this backlash was very widespread. I did not find a lot of comments like this. Um, part of that is I'm not sure how many people at the time knew uh Roosevelt was a Freemason. I'm not sure. Um, but either way, I don't think people most people would have felt this strongly negatively about it precisely because of these values that he is espousing that everyone can get behind really of respect for fellow citizens and lifting each other up and making each other better. Um, but there were some who were very much against it. uh and the Masons for their part, the Masonic community has a lot of pride in Roosevelt being one of their members. Um I won't read out this entire thing here. Um but I will note that uh he uh the ma the Masonic standard here mentions the sort of practicality of masonry, eminently practical they say. And as I mentioned, sort of alluded to earlier, uh he recogni recognizes Freemasonry as the great lever leveler, excuse me. Uh which unites the high, the low, the rich, the poor, and consiliates true friendship among those who might otherwise have remained at a perpetual distance. Um so this is something that brings people together uh in a way that that uh benefits us all uh is the way the Masons see it and the way that Roosevelt sees it in particular. Um and they say the country is fortunate in having for its chief executive a man who has the courage and the capacity to apply the principles of masonry to the problems of government. Um and I think many people probably agreed whether they they knew much about the masonry aspect of it or not. I think those principles were really really helpful to to everyone. Uh and there's some aspects of this here that uh in terms of this equality that I think are important to to to continue to talk about here. Um religious equality was extremely important to Theodore Roosevelt. Um and he writes a letter to another politician, Thomas E. Watson. Um this is in 1915 at this time. Uh Watson is a man who is very vocally anti-semitic, anti-atholic. Uh he is racist. He is just about anti- everything you can think of. Um, and Roosevelt will write this man a very very long letter basically speaking about speaking out against everything that Watson uh is speaking for. Um, and he will tell Watson, I am not only a Protestant but a member of the Dutch Reformed Church. I am a Mason, but I should hold myself an unworthy citizen of the United States if I failed to treat and to assi to insist upon the treatment of every one of my fellow citizens with absolute disregard of his creed. Whether he is Protestant or Catholic, Jew, Gentile, or agnostic is his own concern. He must be the master of his own soul. he must extend to others full liberty of religious belief and he is entitled to receive the same treatment himself. Um and to me this is something that again was influenced surely at least in part by uh by masonry right uh uh that that uh as long as as you are moral and you share some kind of belief in particular belief in a supreme being or even not in its case. He he says agnostic here too which is interesting. Um but he believes everyone is equal and that spiritual matters are between a man and his creator. that is very important to him. Uh this will actually come up during Taft's presidential campaign. William Howard Taft. Uh Taft was a Unitarian and there were some who were speaking out against Taft for that reason and Roosevelt will tell people all that matters is that he treats people right and that he is a good public servant. Um so that will come up again again and again. Uh and as we mentioned there is some social equality at at the heart of this as well. Um and he will tell a journalist toward the end of his life, it's 1919 when he when he tells this story um that's become very very famous. He says, "I violate no secret when I say that one of the greatest values in masonry is that it affords an opportunity for men in all walks of life to meet on common ground, where for the time all men are equal and have one common interest. For example, when I was president, the master of my lodge was worshipful brother Dowy, gardener on the estate of one of my neighbors, and a most excellent public-spirited citizen with whom I liked to maintain contact. Clearly, I could not call upon him socially when I came home. It would have embarrassed him. Neither could he, without embarrassment, call on me. In the lodge, it was different. He was over me, though I was president, and it was good for him and good for me. Uh so again there's there's this really heartfelt need for for fellowship right fellowship is very much at the core of all of this. And Roosevelt believes that people who engage in respect for one another in fellowship with one another in brotherhood with one another are going to make all of society better. They're going to improve uh their own lives and the lives of others. Um, and I I think that masonry had a lot to do with the way he saw the world. Uh, and with that, we have about 10 minutes left by uh, our Zoom meeting time here. So, I'm going to stop sharing my screen and I'm going to thank you again for having me and uh, welcome any questions or comments you may have. Oh, before we I might as well stand in front of the camera. What the heck? Um, before we get too far into this, I I want to note that this was one of the best presentations of the life of a Mason that I've ever heard, seen. Thank you. I did not know I knew that Teddy Roosevelt was a Mason. I did not know how deeply it influenced his public and private life. One of the themes that I have going this year is Freemasonry in the 21st century. How do we adjust as Freemasons to what's going on? And when I do that, I like to look at the lives of Freemasons to use them as examples. So, this works this works quite well. I have no I I I'm going to with I'm going to reserve my questions for a later time so anybody else can ask something. Oh, right. Good evening. You see me? Yes. So, let me be honest first. I'm I'm a teacher of US history, so I I could take up an hour of your time one-on-one. Um, two questions. One is and the second one is funny. Um so so his his um governorship, right, the governorship that propelled him into into the vice presidency, was he aware when they made him vice president, was he aware of like what the I guess you would call them the the the corporate class, what the corporate class was trying to do. Was he like was he aware of it and and did he understand it? um what was going on with the Rockefellers and the Carnegies and and and the JP Morgans and what they wanted wanted to do. And then two is the funny question. So when he was remaking his image and into into a Rough Rider um because you talked about his wife giving away this stuff to to be auctioned, what happened to the the the Tiffany hunting knife that is in those photos where he was make remaking his image, but he had the $500 $500 uh hunting knife from Tiffany's in it? I was just curious if that was ever if it was auctioned off if it's known if its presence is if it's if it location is known. Sure. So uh to the first question as far as uh when he was uh propelled into the vice presidency from the governorship uh he certainly knew to some extent what was happening although to him the way he saw it there were some people who were uh pushing him that direction for nefarious purposes for their own reasons and others who believed it actually was a good thing. But he certainly knew that he was seen as something of a rabble rouser, something of a radical in a way, right? A radical reformer. Uh he is, you know, a Republican and a staunch one in some ways, but he sees that differently than other Republicans do. Um and so he he didn't want to be the vice president. He did not want it. He knew it was more or less a powerless, symbolic position, especially at that time. Um and he really he said that he would rather do nearly anything. He could take a job as a professor or do any other number of things but more or less out of party loyalty he will decide to take that position on. I don't think he foresaw um that he would become president at least not so quickly. Um so so it was something that that he really didn't want to do but like I said he he did it anyway out of out of party loyalty and what he thought was best uh for for the Republican party. Uh, your second question, I would have to look up uh the Tiffany knife. I know it still exists. Um, I don't know if it's the Library of Congress who has it or if Sagamore Hill National Historic Site has it. I believe one of the historic sites still has that today. My guess would be actually Sagamore Hill, his home. They have a lot of his personal effects like that, but I would have to look that up to be certain. Uh, and that's a good time to tell you all. um Ira or anyone make sure uh anyone can have my contact information. Please reach out to me. Uh it's it's my job to to speak with you all to to answer any questions, any comments. So after this, I am available to speak with you anytime. Um but thank you for those questions. Uh if there are more, I'm happy to take them. Thank you. Cool. Okay. Well, um, I used to be a reporter, so therefore I have lots of questions, but I I'll keep it kind of short. One of the things I'm curious about is was I can't remember the timeline. Was TR a premation at the time he was a Rough Rider? No, he would not have been yet. So, uh, 1898, uh, is the SpanishAmerican War. That's when he resigns as Secretary of the Navy to go fight in Cuba. Um and then when he becomes governor in 1899 is when he starts uh attending those public events and then after that uh in 1900 is when he actually is inducted into Freemasonry. So he is not a Mason yet when he is in the SpanishAmerican War. You mentioned that there were a lot of premasons in government at the time he was president and I'm curious to see if you know whether he interacted on a masonic level with those folks. You know, I don't I didn't see any like primary source that didn't come up in in the bit of research I did for this presentation, but the answer just logically almost certainly has to be yes. um both in the state government and in the federal government. Uh in the federal government, uh William McKinley also a Freemason. Uh uh William Howard Taft also a Freemason. So some of the other presidents were as well. I imagine a fair number of Congress people of senators and congressman representatives were. Um so I would have to look deeper into the sources to know to sort of find specific instances. Um but we know if nothing else, William McKinley was also a Mason. So, they may have interacted on that level. Um, and again, lots of people in state government in Albany, things like that. Uh, the 30-year-old something. Do you Here's the a silly question which does not require a serious answer. Now, it's it's known that he was a prolific hunter. Am I I'm assuming I'm on track with the right president considering a a Tiffany hunting knife. That confirms it. Now, if he do you think as a as a non-Mason, do you think that it would and he's also quite public about being a Mason and representatives and whatnot, do you think that what was more convenient or priority for him for to schedule his hunting sprees around Masonic events in locations where that would be appropriate for him or vice versa? Would he be hunting for the sake of the meetings or meetings for the sake of the huntings? Yeah. So he absolutely, you know, he would go to meetings, go to lodges when he traveled and go to other things, but he's not necessarily scheduling uh his his trips around different Masonic events and meetings and what have you. In fact, we have many letters in our digital library uh that that show he often is writing people, sorry, I can't come to this event or this meeting. Sorry, I can't come to this. Occasionally he will send letters uh uh for specific events and things. Uh and he will uh dutifully pay his dues to the Matinock Lodge in Oyster Bay. We've got the records of his secretary William Lo making sure those dues come in. Um but yeah, you know, the masonry is important to him and he will go to those meetings to those lodges when he can, but in terms of scheduling, it's almost never his actual priority unfortunately. There being no other questions, I'll I'll just ask one. Did he have a Masonic funeral? No, he did not. Um uh uh now what's interesting uh you may know this. Uh I have heard that the largest Masonic funeral in United States history was actually held for for someone he was affiliated with and that was Buffalo Bill Cody. Um he had a very large Masonic funeral um in Denver when he died. Uh not uh similar time just a couple years before TR did if I remember correctly. Um but no, TR did not have a Masonic funeral. He did have a very large funeral but not a Masonic one. Uh FYI, I did a presentation some time ago about Buffalo Bills the Freemason and I used pictures of the procession which was as long as the Macy's Day parade. Yes, it was huge. Pretty impressive. Um well, thank you very much for your time. I thank you for having me. I so appreciate it.