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The Worst Chinese Learning Advice You Will See Today

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The video critiques a popular piece of advice suggesting that learning Chinese characters and tones is a waste of time, arguing instead that this approach leads to significant long-term difficulties for learners. The speaker emphasizes that while Mandarin grammar is often considered simple compared to European languages due to the lack of gender, articles, or complex conjugations, the language compensates with high contextual complexity and unique structural elements like measure words and aspect markers. Unlike Spanish, where rules can be mastered and then applied automatically, Chinese requires a fundamental shift in thinking patterns because nearly every concept found in English does not have a direct equivalent. Consequently, relying on shortcuts that ignore these linguistic realities creates barriers that are much harder to overcome than the initial learning curve suggests. One of the most dangerous pieces of advice highlighted is the suggestion to ignore tones entirely and pronounce words "freestyle" without regard for pitch. The speaker explains that while this might seem manageable in the early stages or when communicating with other foreigners, it quickly becomes a liability when interacting with native speakers who expect standard pronunciation. Ignoring tones from the start trains learners to speak in a way that is unintelligible to locals, leading to a situation where common words are misunderstood completely—such as confusing "mother" with "horse." Unlike languages with pitch accents like Japanese, where context often saves communication, Mandarin relies heavily on correct tonal usage for clarity; failing to master this early forces learners to spend hundreds of hours later undoing bad habits that have become deeply ingrained. Similarly, the recommendation to avoid learning characters initially is presented as a short-sighted strategy that hinders progress once a learner reaches an intermediate level. Although it is theoretically possible to function in China without reading or writing, doing so effectively limits one's ability to navigate daily life, read signs, understand subtitles, and communicate efficiently with locals who expect literate speakers. The speaker argues that characters are not arbitrary drawings but essential components of the language that allow for pattern recognition and vocabulary expansion. While technology can help guess meanings via pinyin input, relying on it indefinitely prevents learners from internalizing the logic of the writing system, ultimately slowing down their ability to read and comprehend complex texts as they advance. In conclusion, the video asserts that the only sustainable path to fluency in Mandarin Chinese is to embrace both tones and characters from the very beginning, despite the initial frustration they cause. The speaker admits that learning without these elements might offer a temporary speed boost, but the gains are quickly lost when learners hit the intermediate plateau where reading and accurate pronunciation become necessary for genuine communication. By struggling with these challenges upfront, learners avoid the painful realization later on that their progress has stalled because they cannot be understood or read by native speakers. The ultimate message is clear: there is no getting around the core components of the language, and ignoring them guarantees that a learner will eventually hit a ceiling where further improvement becomes nearly impossible without going back to fix foundational errors.
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What's up, grinders? Welcome back to the channel. Today, we're going to be doing a react to this video right here. Learning Chinese characters first is a waste of time. Now, I've already seen this video. We're not going to react to the whole thing. Probably react to about half of it. Uh because the second half is not really needed. However, I'm going to say straight up when I watched this, I was like, whoa, this is like there is so much bad information here. It's not funny. Now, the guy seems like a super chill guy, nice person, everything. like no hate on him, but the advice here is absolutely terrible when it comes to learning Mandarin Chinese. And take this from someone who's at an intermediate level already in the language, okay? Because well, just like everyone else, when I first started out, I thought I could get away with this [ __ ] as well. So, I'm going to uh watch the video. We're going to react to those parts and I'm going to tell you what's really going to happen if you think this way. >> Today, I'm going to show to you why Chinese is one of the easiest language you could learn. First of all, it is already well known that the grammar of Mandarin is ridiculously easy. There's no >> Now, when people say the grammar of Mandarin is easy, they describe it as easy because they look at what European languages have and Chinese lacks that. Therefore, Chinese is easy. But Chinese has to make up for that. It can't just get rid of that stuff without any loss to function of the language, right? So, Chinese becomes difficult in other ways. It becomes highly contextual. There's a lot of aspect markers which we are not used to using as foreign as like uh westerners. Okay. And then it has its own random weird systems like the measure word system. It sometimes it almost acts like a case system with specific words acting as case markers like bar which then takes the object of a sentence and slaps it basically to the beginning of the sentence changing it from a a subjectverb object to a topic based language. There's so many aspects to the grammar which are complex in different ways that we would expect and then to add on top of all of that it becomes more difficult just due to the way the language thinks. So as someone who's also learning Spanish right now and I'm now also learning the grammar of Spanish because I took a very input heavy approach. Okay? I am going through the grammar phase of Spanish and I can see why people say it's hard. It's because there's obviously a lot of different endings and those endings change based on, you know, is it male, is it female, is it plural, is it, you know, like is the subject plural or not? Because obviously verbs and nouns of sorry, objects, they all change. Okay. Now, realistically, I'm looking at all this and going, okay, I can see the complexity there. But once you learn those rules, the thinking of the language, like how how a Spanish person thinks, it's not far removed from how someone who speaks English thinks or Espiranto thinks, okay? Like it's still pretty much the same language just with some extra rules added on top that make things more complex. Mandarin Chinese, however, thinks different and that's where the complexity comes into it. Not so much in the the literal rules of the grammar you need to learn, it's in the fact that you need to change your thinking. no gender, there's no article, there's no case, there's no plural. And uh yes, basically every single concept you found in the English language does not exist in the Chinese grammar. So that is well known. However, there are two major difficulties people use to prove that Chinese is >> So obviously I always fundamentally disagree on that aspect. Okay, I prefer Spanish grammar because I know once I've learned the rules and I've automated them, then I can basically just think with my English brain, you know, like you're not too far off the mark there. There's obviously some minor differences, you know, in how things are swapped around, but eh, it's not that difficult. Like, I'm starting to get the hang of it already. Okay, but with Chinese, it's just you just got to think different. Everything operates differently. It's >> actually very hard to learn. People would say, "Well, your grammar is easy, but you have characters." For example, this one. such characters is a bit useless because there's no association between the way it is written and the way it is pronounced and this brings me >> now obviously some people are going to go down the comments section they're going to say well for specific characters there is a phmic component and then there is also like a meaning component and sometimes the phmic component you know is related to pronunciation uh so if you see that component you know across most words it's going to be similar well at least 1,000 years ago blah blah blah blah okay I get what he's saying right now is like obviously you look at that like especially the you know the one on the right ma that they're being horse okay that's just a pictographic character like it was literally just someone who drew a horse a couple thousand years ago and now that's what they use for horse to the second major difficulty people use to say that Chinese is very hard to learn the pronunciation for example this one is pronounced ma and people would tell you that if you pronounce it slightly incorrectly not ma but ma then you actually land it in a different character a different So this means mom, this means horse. So then people say this is so subtle. I can never master it. And uh this is really difficult for me to learn. And indeed those people they are partially right because these two aspect the characters and the pronunciations are the source of almost all the pain the Chinese. >> Okay. So as a learner tones are a pain at the start. Once you get past it, you will always screw them up at some point or another that's unavoidable, okay? But they're not so difficult down the track. Characters are just a a constant ongoing annoyance because you're just constantly learning more of them. Now, I've made videos on characters before. There's lots of systems out there that claim to teach you characters, you know, using their special method about how you learn, you know, the different components and then that gives you this amount of characters and you use these funny little stories to remember them. Realistically, at the end of the day, you're basically going to brute force your way through the characters. Brute force recognition. If it comes to writing, even more brute force, okay? Like you will learn each little element, then you add them together. But then obviously with traditional Chinese and simplified Chinese, it's different. Traditional is actually probably easier to remember in some ways while simplified is like easier to write but there's more exceptions because obviously characters have been modified uh to be simplified but these things are just ongoing pain. Realistically I think that the difficulty for me and Mandarin Chinese it's just the way of thinking like it's it's always hard to just get into the mindset. When I'm talking about way of thinking I also mean you know the the semantic ground that the words cover. So like if you look at say English, Aspana, Spanish, most verbs for instance, the their meaning is almost the same across all three languages. Sure, you say them differently, but there may be some semantic shift. You know, some might some verbs might have a little bit more space, you know, more things they can cover in one language as opposed to another, but generally they're lined up. Men are in Chinese. It's just [ __ ] everything's just different. Okay? It's just all different. Like only the most basic of words and even those will okay like for example the word ya which can mean going to want about to you know and like a need like it's got so many different meanings okay like it does not it's not an easy word to learn it's a very common word it's not an easy word to learn because it has so many different meanings okay then you got that times thousands and thousands where all the word like nearly no word matches up with English so there's So there's no point where you just look at one word go okay that's it English meaning cool now I can move forward it just doesn't happen >> imaginary than real so that by the end of this video you will no longer be afraid of both of them and you will not have the pain people used to suffer in the standard way of learning Chinese okay let's start with pronunciation so my thesis is that you should forget about the toms completely you should for >> this is where he lost me I was like wait what okay now I'll let him Forget about the first to ma second to ma ma ma ma. All these four tones you should forget about it and act as if they don't exist. You should pronounce you should pronounce every character freestyle without the tones. >> Pronounce every character freestyle in a language where the tones literally determine the meaning. >> And uh and you would say well if I do it this way I would not be able to understand. I would sound ridiculous. Well, first of all, in the beginning, you might sound ridiculous, but gradually through time, it will get better. >> This doesn't happen, and I know this from experience uh with others who were learning Mandarin Chinese who tried to just [ __ ] freestyle it. Like they didn't they tried to like just listen to the word without ever learning any tones and just kind of mimicking it. Okay, someone who's such as this guy here who knows English, when he hears you speaking Chinese, he'll be like, "Oh, okay. This is kind of what you mean." like his ear adjusted to a a non-native speaking his language. You try to pull this [ __ ] off with someone who doesn't speak English in China, good luck for them understanding you, okay? Like sometimes they even struggle understanding other people from freaking other regions, you know, when they're they're all speaking the standard dialect, which is okay. So, like if you try to just freestyle the [ __ ] no one's going to understand you. And you're then going to cement in I don't like to use the word fossilize because it's got lots of different meanings, but like you're then going to train yourself to speak in a very very very English manner because you're trying this from day one. You you can't even recognize the tones at this point. You're just recognizing general ups and downs within words and the and the sounds of the language. Okay? And it's not like you're going to be able to just slowly over time adjust this in position. No, you're going to have to go back later and spend a [ __ ] ton of time fixing everything up. And what you will notice from people who did this and then went back and fixed stuff later on is the words that they learned later on after they, you know, started fixing their tones sound good. And then the most common of words in the language, they screw up. They always just screw up because they practiced it for potentially hundreds of hours or used it for hundreds of hours with the wrong tones because it was just based on how they [ __ ] vibe vied it. Okay? and it's now almost damn near impossible to undo without like potentially hundreds of hours of just practice on that one little thing. Okay? Like, you don't want to do this. This is the worst, absolute worst advice, especially for a language where it actually makes a difference. Now, I know with languages like Japanese with pitch accent, you've got people in both camps. Some are like, "Oh, it's important. You need to do it." And others are like, "Nah, bro. It's it's okay. It's not really that important." There's only a few words where like pitch accent really makes a difference. In Mandarin Chinese, you screw up one tone, people will generally understand the rest of you, like the rest of what you're saying based on context. You screw up a couple of tones in a row and it's very unlikely they understand you. Okay? If you're vibing the whole [ __ ] sentence, no one's understanding you. No one. Okay? They're going to ask for real life subtitles. >> And second of all, which is the more important argument is that 100 years ago, Mandarin is not a phenomenon like it is today. 100 years ago, 99% of the Chinese people speak a language that is very different from Mandarin, at least in the pronunciation aspect. Each word is not pronounced the way Mandarin has it pronounced today. So that our ears, the ears of Chinese people, we are trained in the difference between the local way of pronouncing it, the way in our village, in our city or in our province and the TV way, the way the >> Okay, so basically the TV way is basically how any foreigner will learn the language unless they live in country. It's why people will say in the comment section, you know, sometimes I sound like a [ __ ] TV broadcaster in Mandarin Chinese. Okay. However, you can't use this to get away with it and say, "Well, if locally they all pronounce it different in their local accent and then there's a standard way." Well, then yeah, they that sounds right. Yeah. Like, I could just mix and match and it won't matter because, you know, everyone locally in their local region speaks differently. Yeah. But they all follow a system. Everyone locally, they may adjust the tones differently. like where my wife comes from, you know, her region which is Shandong in in her specific area when they're speaking locally, they may reverse every second tone. Okay? So like actually the second tone and make it a fourth tone, they may end up doing that. Okay? But there is a logic to it and everyone locally knows that logic obviously instinctively it's a native language. But if you're just [ __ ] willy-nilly everything just however the [ __ ] you want, no one's going to understand you. It's not like you're going to be like, "Oh, right now I'm speaking, you know, and then next minute I'm speaking and then next minute, you know, it's like you you can't just [ __ ] take one word from here, one word from there, one." Like, it doesn't make sense. The only person who might be able to understand you was probably someone who's like listened to hundreds of hours of students trying to learn Chinese and they've literally just ear adjusted to just bad Chinese. >> The people in Beijing, the the important people pronounce it in the TV. So we are our ears are we can do this switch very very easily. >> And I don't know why he's presenting this idea as if this also applies to for it doesn't. I've experienced it firsthand when I was a a beginner in Chinese. Okay. I'd screw up a bunch of tones, you know, and suddenly no one understands you. This is terrible advice. Terrible. Maybe you the guy here is so ear adjusted that this works for him. You know he can >> so that if you pronounce ma in the wrong way we will not think ah you are not talking about mom now you're talking about horse. This is ridiculous. If you're talking to a Chinese people with more than two grand sales we will understand are you talking about the mom or are you talking about a horse >> and that is true as long as you only screw up one word. And you might say, I have seen videos online where people pronounce it incorrectly and it sounds it has a totally inappropriate meaning and it's ruining the whole situation. This is like when you go you've got the help desk call with someone out of India. This is not me picking on Indians. Okay, maybe it is. But anyway, cuz I literally had this encounter yesterday at work. Okay, I got called into a phone call with my work colleague who was on the phone with one of our help desk guys over in India. And it was clear as day that this guy learned English, but he learned English and whatever local dialect it was, okay? Like there was no attempt to learn actual English phonetics. And when he was speaking, me and my my colleague, we had to literally work together to piece meal together what this other guy was saying. I'm sure his grammar was fine because the few times when he pulled off the words fine, like it it it made sense. But it was so obvious that he'd never put any attempt into actually learning to speak English to any type of standard that anyone would recognize and we just could not understand him. Okay? And this isn't a language where it is highly forgiving. English is highly forgiving in a lot of ways. Mandarin Chinese is not. >> Those examples you see online, they are artificially constructed for dramatic effects to fool people. But in real life, nobody will have you misunderstood. This uh this dramatic effect exists only in artificial context. Okay. Well, we have this uh pronunciation issue out of the way. You should if you're a Mandarin Chinese learner, I've literally seen these comments before. You are one and you've had to go back and fix your tones because you made this mistake. Please let me know down in the comment section. I never did. Luckily, I learned correctly from the start. Uh mainly because I just got a lot of correction and feedback. Okay? But if you're someone who went through this and I've seen these comments before, you know how painful that this is. Please drop a comment down below for others. >> Pronounce it. You should learn the Chinese language as if the tones didn't exist and then just just vibe it through. In the end, after one or two, >> don't don't vibe, please. >> It will just magically get better. And if it didn't get >> Okay, I I I got to stop interrupting. >> Get better. It does not matter so much. Okay, that's the pronunciation aspect. And uh now let's concentrate on the more serious difficulty which is the Chinese characters. How? >> Okay. So originally when I learned Chinese I was the person who's like I'm not going to learn these chicken scratches. What am I ever going to need this [ __ ] for? I'm just going to learn how to speak and understand. That's good enough for me. And it kind of works at the start for a little while and then you realize [ __ ] every single word when written opinion looks exactly the same. Like every single word. Okay. What are they? And why is every single word just it just seems like a jumble. And when you learn the characters, you're like, "Oh, okay. So these words all share meaning." Oh, okay. Well, what happens if I randomly put together these two? Holy [ __ ] that's actually a word. Oh, okay. So, like, I know you would be inclined and it makes logical sense at first because, you know, that's how kids learn. They don't learn characters and stuff, but you're not a kid. You're not going to spend 10,000 hours just listening to a language, okay? And then like have constant feedback from adults. So, let's just scrap that for a moment, okay? I know it makes sense in a lot of ways, but trust me, the pain at the start is massively offset slightly after the start when you actually start learning characters. And the thing is there's no way you're getting around this. You are going to be learning these if you actually want to use this language. >> Am I going to show you that it is more imaginary than real? >> So it is true that it takes a lot of effort and memory cells to try to remember how one should write this. One should write the line here and the line here. This is very difficult. It is true. But I would argue that you should try to learn the Chinese language completely without characters. You should act as if the Chinese characters does not exist. Well, this is a very radical statement. So I need to unpack it a little bit. So when people think of the Chinese language, they immediately associate it with such characters as if these are intrinsic aspect of our language. Without it, our language could not work. If I if I act as if the Chinese characters do not exist and trying to learn the manner in this way, what am I even learning? I know of one guy who got really high level in Chinese and never learned the characters. He was married to a native and the native was also a teacher of Chinese. So she was more than happy to help him basically learn without using characters. He got to a very good level in the language and then he needed to learn characters as soon as he went to China. He realized that there was literally no way to get around in China without the characters. You can't do it. It's not like there's pinion written under every single sign. Like you will basically be illiterate. Okay. In a country where everything runs by a phone. Everything there. There's no way of getting around this. You you need characters. Now, maybe you could like Could you imagine how bad it would be as someone who's like learning Chinese and you're pointing your phone using like Google Translate to like, you know, look up characters or whatnot when you already speak the language. Like sure, not learning the characters at first might speed things up initially. It slows things down once you get to the more intermediate level and then once you get to a more advanced level, like characters are actually a they're massively helpful at that point because you start noticing the patterns between how you can put them together and even guessing words. >> My grandma or my grandpa or most of the grandparents of China in their brain in their mind they don't have such things because they are illiterate because we were very poor. They didn't go to school. They do not read or write Chinese characters. But of course, they speak it flu fluently because that's the only language they speak fluently. So, first of all, it is theoretically possible that Chinese language functions without the characters. >> Of course, but I guarantee you if they can't read the characters, they're calling him up every day and saying, "Why is this thing doing this thing over? I'm trying to click on this thing in the app. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. Can Can you just come around here and fix this?" >> It's like my dad with the VHS. Yes, he's still got a VHS. Second of all, I'm going to prove to you that the Chinese characters are very artificial attachment to the Chinese language. It's a bit very unnatural if we really force our way if we put characters as the focal point of our learning program. So, it is very uh unnatural. Let's see why. So, for example, this character is pronounced long. In ping, we write it as L O N G. So, my my thesis is that you should use pinion all the time. Long LG. use the Latin characters instead of using the Chinese characters if you are trying to learn the Chinese language. Why? Because this is the character from the for the dragon. This means the dragon long. However, this character, we do not write dragon this way for a thousand years. For the longest time in Chinese history, we write the dragon in this totally unrelated way that looks completely different from the current way we write it. This is the way we wrote the character for dragon. You see that has nothing to do with Shu. So when did the change happen? Why do we no longer use this way anymore? Because the communists, the government, they decided that illiteracy is a huge problem that the population cannot recognize the characters. And this is a lot simpler than this one. So they just artificially through political force decided that this should be the new dragon because it's simpler. And this old dragon, we no longer use it anymore. Even though people um in Taiwan and Hong Kong still use the traditional characters because they have a different government, because they have a different political situation there. And by the way in Japanese, Japanese also use some of our characters. Um, in Japanese the dragon also is one of the kangis is written even again differently like this has nothing to do with the simplified way or the traditional way. So you see that the association between the drawing between the character and the pronunciation long is not something like logic. >> That's completely true but it doesn't really mean anything at the end of the day. If you actually want to be able to use this language, sure, you could go to your phone and type in pinion, but then it's going to give you like 20 characters to select from, you're going to be like, uh, if you can't recognize it, you can't recognize it. You could guess it's probably the first one. If you write out the whole sentence, it will probably guess each character in the sentence for you, the opinion, and you can select it all and hope for the best. And I mean hope for the best, cuz sometimes [ __ ] it creates some random [ __ ] >> It's very arbitrary. So that um so that it makes no sense. There's no intrinsic sense. Okay, good. That's the first point. When you learn the Chinese language without characters, theoretically, you should be able to speak the language fluently and understand uh it fluently when somebody speak it to you just like our my grandparents uh do it. This is theoretically possible because our grandparents are living examples of it. However, you say I also want to read it. So, for example, when I send a text message to my dad, I do not write these characters. So for example, if I want to say dragon, I do not write this uh and this and this this complicated character and send it. No, I write long. I write I type into the keyboard LG and the software take takes care of the association for me. I don't remember in my mind how should I write long. I type in LG just as the way I would say it. And then the software recognize that oh hey you hey you mean long. >> Yes, but it doesn't always get it right. It's like right 80% of the time and it can be more right the longer the sentence you write. You're literally shooting in the dark cuz if it suggests more than two options, there's a good chance it's probably the first option in the list, but it could be the second one and you don't know. You don't know. >> By the way, I also don't type into the software which pronunciation it is, which tone it is. Mom, I think it's the second pronunciation, the second tone. We also don't write this. In our mind, the only information, the only key information to save is L O N G. >> That is true. But the tone is only important in spoken language >> and then the software will recognize hey you mean long I will put this character out for you. So you see in real life when even when we are texting with the characters we don't save this information we save this information in our brain and uh this information is delegated to other things to the software because this is again not the intrinsic part of our language. Well um you say but I find the characters interesting. I want to learn them. I want to be a >> Okay. So, I'm going to stop the video at this point right now because the rest of this just kind of it goes off on like a little bit of a tangent. It's not related to the two points I wanted to cover. So, realistically, I'm going to say like I know you might think, okay, no, this like Spanish, you could you could probably just wing it. Just try say the words, just mimic the sounds of the language as much as you can. Learn the tones or you'll [ __ ] regret it later. Trust me on that one. I have seen so many people who have basically resigned from not using Chinese anymore. Even though they're at a pretty good level just due to the fact that no one [ __ ] understands them. They can write like, you know, on phone, computer, all that type of stuff, they can read it perfectly fine. They can talk and as long as you kind of are ear adapted to them, you can kind of get what's going on. But there's nothing more frustrating than giving out full sentences and the other person looking at you and going, "Huh?" because that's what will happen if you don't learn the tones. That there is the absolute worst advice. Now, when it comes to characters, that one's a little bit more and more. It depends what you want to do with the language. Eventually, if you seriously want to get this language to any good level, you're going to have to learn the characters anyway. And sure, you can come back later and do that. Things might be faster or they might be slow. It really depends. Like my personal feelings based on my journey so far is that you know learning without characters initially is faster but then once you get to the intermediate level having the characters available is faster. So any like gains you get in that initial part you're going to massively lose out in the intermediate level anyway. So you might as well just struggle a little bit more up front and then get those benefits where it really matters at that intermediate plateau where everyone [ __ ] just gives up on a language. Okay, cuz the beginning stages like I'm sorry to say this is a difficult language. You're going to spend a long time learning. There's no getting around this [ __ ] Okay, you're going to have to learn all this stuff. Unfortunately, the Chinese decided that the characters are a part of their language. And if you want to live in the country, you want to travel in the country, you want to [ __ ] you even want to look at subtitles in the goddamn language, okay, to to check what you're hearing. It's all in characters. You're going to have to be able to recognize that [ __ ] And if you can't recognize it and you're all you've like and there's like they said five things and you're trying to figure out what that sixth word is and what are you going to do? Like count each character. 1 2 3 4 5. Okay, the sixth one's the one I want. Then go to your dictionary, handdraw it out to look it up. No. No. It's it's not a it's not a good way of going about things. So I hate it as much as the next guy. You got to learn the characters. The tones, there is no getting around that. If you do not learn the tones from the beginning, you are hard [ __ ] yourself. That's pretty much it. Hope you guys have enjoyed this video. I'll see you all in the next one. If you're not there, I will find you and I will say a totally incomprehensible sentence to you and your response will dictate your survivability.