The World’s Greatest Winter Olympian Shares the Secrets to His Success

There goes Klæbo. Let me >> The amount of energy expenditure that is required for [music] you to do that has to be insane. >> I saw the video myself and I was like That looks pretty good. >> hot. >> [laughter] >> Johannes Klæbo >> 13 time Olympic medalist, 11 gold medals, the most gold medals won at a single Winter Olympics, >> [music] >> most career gold medals won by any Winter Olympic athlete. Like it's insane what you've accomplished. >> I always had this mindset where I hate to lose. The feeling of winning a race is amazing. The feeling of becoming second is so much worse. It is a mental game. You are saying that, "Okay, we just go over the next hill, the next hill." And then you just continue to trick your head to just move a little bit more. >> So, 1,000 hours of training, what does it look like? >> 2 and 1/2 hours of >> Oh, really? Oh, interesting. You're very much known as somebody who's modernized your sport and brought it into 2026, which in the United States is, you know, it's a relatively obscure sport. I would say that most people had almost, at least in the United States, like had very little connection with this sport until they saw you essentially, you know, running uphill in your skis at 10.3 mph at sub-6 minute pace and just minds were blown when that viral moment occurred. And that has probably done more for the um uh just awareness of the sport than anybody has done in the last 30 or 40 years. >> That's probably true and I think I think it's good that people can actually see when you actually put in numbers on it, you know? When you see like there is as we are having kilometers per hour, but in the and you see like, "Okay, it's 18.2 kilometers per hour in the uphills. You see the incline. Just for people to understand and get to get to know it a little bit more cuz then it's easier for people to to really understand how how fast we are running those hills. But yeah, I was a cool moment to see that so many people were paying attention to what we are doing. I mean, cross country skiing has always been a really small sport, but it's it's getting bigger and I think the what has been my goal is to to tell people and try to show people how healthy of a sport cross country skiing is because you're using your legs, you're using your upper body, and then you're also working your endurance. And those two three things you're working out at the same time when you're out there. And it also is really a really low risk of getting injured like in terms of when you're running or biking or whatever, it's like there is not that many sports that are doing upper body, lower body, and endurance at the same time. And uh >> Swimming. >> Swimming Swimming would probably be the closest comp. >> That's probably the closest one. And I think those two sports or in general a sport like that is is really efficient for people to stay in good shape and staying healthy. And what we see over the last years is that uh people are more paying more attention to their health. It's trying to uh do the right workouts, uh eat the right things, and and stuff like that, which I which I think is really cool cuz I think we are in a it's a more healthier way we are we're doing things these days than we did before. >> Mhm. There's uh this sense within the endurance community. Like if you're an endurance athlete, like it's one thing to be a runner or triathlete, you know, one of these, you know, kind of sports, but the sport that commands the most amount of respect among the people who are steeped in endurance is cross-country skiing. They're like, "That's where the fittest people in the world are. Like the the it's a different breed. Like the degree of endurance and strength and agility that is demanded in order to be at an elite level in this sport is incomparable to any other endurance pursuit." Like it is like the, you know, kind of apex predator of fitness. And I want to I want you to like kind of explain like the rigor of this sport that you dominate. Like what goes into being able to compete at the highest level in cross-country skiing? >> Oh, I think there is there's a lot of factors that are are important, but uh um one thing is you definitely need to have like the VO2 max. Like the VO2 is is important cuz you are uh we're doing so many up and downs in terms of like a race, it's say it's a 10K race, it's basically 22 minutes of >> Mhm. >> full speed from start to finish. It's a lot of uphills, a lot of downhills, but it's at the end that the VO2 max needs to be so high that you're able to uh if you're going to be performing at the highest level. And then another aspect of it is is the technical part. Um and I think that is uh important in a lot of sports. Uh and I think it is as important in in cross-country skiing as it is in so many other sports cuz it's just uh it's important to have the right technique in the right type of terrain, the right type of hills, you know, cuz if the hill is 5% incline, you need to use this kind of technique, but when it's six, it's a little bit different. And that changes from seconds to seconds. So, it's it's really a hard balance to find the right technical part every single part of the of the track. And then I also think that just being well uh just having the endurance to to be able to race over in in the cold air, but also like like we do, it's a race weekend for me can be everything from 1.3 km, which is uh yeah, I don't know how long it is in miles, but it's probably just less than a mile. >> About a mile or just under, yeah. >> under a mile. And then we have like the 50K, which is like 2 hours of racing. And the other the sprint is just below 3 minutes. >> Yeah. >> And then you have like everything in between there. Meaning you need to have those fast muscle fibers to be able to to perform in the sprint, but you also need endurance to be able to perform in a 50K. And I think that's kind of the beauty of the sport, which for me has always been been the trigger to be able to do everything. >> Yeah. So, for people that are unfamiliar with Johannes, let's just catch people up here. Uh 13 time Olympic medalist, 11 gold medals. Uh you hold the record for the most gold medals won at a single Winter Olympics. Most career gold medals won by enter any Winter Olympic athlete. Like, it's insane what you've accomplished. And I think just as equally impressive is the fact that you're winning at the sprint distances all the way up to the 50K. So, the equivalent would be somebody who's winning the gold medal in the 400 meters on the track and then also like winning the marathon. Like it's just it's it's inconceivable. So, how are you able to have such agility and dexterity to be able to be dominant in both the sprint distances and the longest races available all the way up to the 50k. I mean it's just mind-blowing. >> I mean I think I think it has been it's been a goal of mine since I was it was really young and my granddad is my my coach and he's 82 years old now and he has always been my coach since I was yeah, he was the one picking me up from school bringing me to training to practice. We were in the weekends we went out for for skiing sessions every single weekend during the winter. So so he has been a huge part of of my success but I would say that I think one of the key factors is that we we started with the goal of winning a sprint race. That was where we started cuz we saw that when I was 18, 19 years old we figured out that okay that's it's quicker for me to become good in sprint than it is to become good in distance skiing. So we decided to put some extra focus on the sprint part when I was 17, 18, 19 years old and when I then became a senior and was able to to race the World Cup we were able to perform in sprint from from day one. And when we were able to train a thousand hours which is kind of the limit for us it's then we decided that we going to start shifting the focus from sprint to distance and that was about when I was 20. So we slowly changed the focus a little bit more from sprint specific training to more uh distance training. So, we added altitude training. We added uh a lot more longer sessions like uh a normal sprint week for me would be like previous was probably say between 18 and 21 hours. Now, we are doing more like if we're doing 21 hours, it's a low week. >> Yeah. >> Now, we are more closer to between 25 and 30, more or less averaging that the whole year. So, we have kind of and we have shifted the focus in terms of just having more longer sessions, 3-hour sessions, more or less every day just to build that endurance over time. And I think that's has showed that it is actually possible to to keep the sprints part, but we also have developed the the distant part. So, we now are able to to do both more or less. >> It's smart. It's patient. And it's uh the right way to do it because you can you can if you if you're fast and you have your technique down with speed, you can always build endurance over time. And you have plenty of years to do that. And by taking your time and incre- incrementally like moving up and extending those distances while maintaining your speed, like that's that's a really smart way to do it. You can't go you can't do it the other way around. You can't specialize in the long distance and then expect to develop speed later. >> No, cuz I think uh what we have seen over the years is that you're getting slower by by the age, you know? And uh that was important for me to to use that momentum I had when I was 18, 19 years years old, build the right technique, build the right strength to be able to be quick and fast, and then shift it a little bit more endurance, but then maintain the sprint parts more than doing the the opposite way cuz then you're it is it is hard to to work against that you're actually becoming older. And I think uh think for me that's So now I feel like these days I'm need to have a little bit more focus on the sprint parts. Just a few sessions here and there where I actually need to maintain it a little bit better cuz you can feel like you're getting a little bit slower by just getting older and older and older. So uh we're still not uh in that time where we are too old to do sprints, but it's a it's a shift kind of coming around 32, 33 years old where you see that that is actually really difficult. >> I'm sure there are other athletes uh in your sport that have approached it in this same way. So this still doesn't explain why you're so much better. >> [snorts] [laughter] >> No, I >> Like it's a rational approach, like a a really good like long-term approach to excellence in your sport, but I'm sure there are other people that are doing the same thing. >> Uh that's probably true, but I >> so I'm going to get you. I I want you to articulate I want you to say out loud the quiet part out loud. Why are you so much better? What is the differentiator? >> I mean it's it's hard to It is really hard to say cuz I feel like there's so many athletes that that are doing the right things, but um I feel like I've always had this I always had this mindset where I uh I hate to lose that much. I mean I feel like it's almost the feeling of winning a race is amazing, but it's just the feeling of becoming second is so much worse. >> Is it because you feel like you're letting yourself down? Is it an an internal motivation or is it because you lost to somebody else? >> No, it is I always like to to say that I'm I'm racing against myself. It's always been about me and what I can do against my own kind of head cuz I feel like when I'm racing a 50k, it's it it is a mental game, you know, it is it is about yourself and how you are try or how you're able to to trick your head in the way that you are saying that, "Okay, we just go over the the next hill, the next hill." And then you just continue to trick your head to just move a little bit more and at the end you're crossing the finish line and then you kind of if you did thing everything right, you're crossing it first, but if you if you are not able to to trick your head enough, that's like what I say to myself. I feel like that's where I where I let myself down. So, for me it's always been about myself and how how I can play play this game against myself and that's kind of the for me that's always what has has been has been a trigger. >> You you hate to lose more than anybody else. This is your This is your answer. >> And and it is like that. It always been like that. I mean, it was like that when I was playing soccer as well as a young kid, you know, um it was that when I it's almost like that when we are in the cabin with my family just playing cards, you know, I just have that when it is a competition when there is something on the line, I feel like I just love to >> It seems like that. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> What's interesting about that is is it's not the story most people might imagine. Yes, your grandfather has always been there. Yes, your mother was also a skier. Your grandfather gave you your first pair of skis when you were like 2 years old, but it wasn't like now I'm on the skis and it's just this clean path to excellence without obstacles. I mean, you were pretty average in your younger years. Like I read up on, you know, the experience of you being in sports at around age 14 and you were much smaller than everybody. There was no There was a There was a sense that you had some athletic gifts, but you were pretty average in every regard. >> Yeah, I mean, I started out quite well when I was really young. And then in Norway we don't have like the we don't take the time on the kids when they are racing until they are at least 10, I think. >> Mhm. >> So, but cuz you are starting going to practices practices when you are like 5, 6 years old. That was when I started as well and then from 5, 6 until 10 you we don't take we take the time, but you don't you put it in a random random numbers. You don't kind of have the one standing on the first of the result list is not the one who was winning the race. That was kind of randomized every single weekend when you when you were racing and I think at that time I was always I was always looking at the time like how how did I do compared to my friends and everyone else, but when when we became 14, I was like people started growing up a little bit more. I was still really really small and uh then it was like yeah, double polling against a man. It was a kid against a man, you know, it was huge differences. So, I was in just my local area where we were probably like 40 people racing and I was probably just around 20. >> Uh-huh. >> Just in the middle. >> How did that work with your hatred of losing? >> No, it was it was terrible. My mom always told me every single week like, [snorts] "Okay, we need to find something else to do. Like, this this not going to can't continue." But, then we I think I together with my grand that we find a way to or we find a way to to work or we look into what we could do what can I do to become better. Cuz at some point I will start growing up a little bit more. So, we decided, "Okay, we're going to focus on the things we we can do something about which is my technique." >> Mhm. >> Uh I can't do anything about that I'm small, so we just need to wait. And that's was when we started really focusing on the technique like how are we double poling, um the running like all the things we are doing these days, and the balance on the skis has been the key factor to to my success, I would say. And that was something we developed from I was 14 until I was 17 when I finally started growing a little bit more. >> At 15, you announced that you were going to be the best or you had set this goal for yourself even though at age 14, there was no indication that that was a possibility. Uh but, there's some interesting things that occurred around that time. First of all, it's set against this uh cultural backdrop um that much has been written about and talked about recently like, "What's going on with Norway? Like, Norway is just having this moment. Like, look at the exceptionalism that we're seeing at the Olympic level." We saw it in the World Cup over the past couple weeks. We've got you. We've got Ingebrigtsen. We've got, you know, Gustav and Kristian in triathlon. Like, we're just seeing just such an outsized um series of of exceptional uh athletes like yourself that is hard for the American brain to make sense of. Like, how is this happening? And then when you understand, like, oh, they don't keep score until they're 13, they have this whole different culture around winning and losing. And and now, like, that's become almost a test case for parents in youth sports, like, how to do this correctly, which I think is super interesting. And within that, you had a coach who came up with a whole set of challenges for people like yourself, the runes challenge. Can you talk a little bit about that? Cuz I think it's super interesting. >> Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, so so my coach at that time was um his goal was to have as many of the kids participate in as many of the practices as possible. That was kind of his overall goal. And uh what he then started was like a challenge where you got points every time you um was at the practice. So then you got like one point. And then on every single practice we had like some sort of relays. It was It could be we were picked in four, five different teams, and then we had a relay, but it was not to do uh back and forth the fastest like regular skiing. It was with one ski. Yeah, okay, okay, we took off one ski. It was with one pole. It was without poles. It was like so many different ways of doing that kind of relay. And then you got points based on how how you perform on that relay. And uh at the end of the season when when we were done, we kind of had like a pursuit where we were starting based on how many points you had uh collected over the last year. And then you can see like, okay, people that are that have been um at many practices, they had an had an advantage on the on the pursuit. So, uh for me that was like it was a goal to to do well on Runa's Challenge at the end of the season cuz like that was a gave you a picture of that you have been taking part a lot of times, but you have also been been showing up, you know? And uh >> [sighs] >> I feel like um it for me and when I look back at it, it's it was a perfect way of keeping as many of the kids to to join the practices as possible. And I think that's kind of the culture in Norway. And like you said, the discussions these days has been in what are we doing in Norway cuz we have so I mean, we are a small country in terms we have 5.5 million people. Uh it's it's pretty small in like in the big world. >> Yeah. >> But we're still having so many top athletes in so many different sports. And I think what we are doing is that the overall goal for so many of the local clubs is that we want to have and we want the kids to to try out as many sports as possible. And we want to keep them there for as long as possible. And then when we are becoming 15, 16, 17 years old and we are going to make the the decision if we're going to do high school towards sports or we're going to do it towards other things, that's kind of when people start making their decisions. Yeah. But until they are 15, we try to keep as many as long as possible. And I feel like that has been a key success and a key factor of the culture in Norway. And I think that has worked out uh really well. But I also think that when you speak to so many of the top athletes, everyone has been uh, like They have They really appreciate it these days like looking back how how cool the practices actually actually was cuz we were so many kids every single time. >> Yeah, and creating a culture where it's all about making sure that the kids are are plugged in, they're connected to this sport, and that they're falling in love with it so that they can have a lifelong relationship with some kind of movement rather than a negative memory of like never getting picked and, you know, forget that, I'm moving in another direction, like sports is not for me. >> Yeah, and I think, uh, just having the opportunity to try different sports, you know? A lot of Norwegians are doing cross-country skiing at least from when they are six until they are 10. >> Yeah, there's like a thousand ski clubs in Norway, right? >> Uh, it's so many. Uh, just around my place where I stay, it's uh, from my place to Granåsen where we had the World Championship is 5 km, it's three clubs just from on those 5 km. So, it's it's a lot, but like I said, I think it's a lot of people are trying cross-country skiing for just 4 years. But then they have developed the capability to actually, when they're getting older, they will remember how they are how it is to ski. So, they can when they are getting older, they can use skiing as a training form, you know? They can go in the cabins during the winter, and then they go skiing in the weekends as a part of their, uh, staying in shape, uh, program. And they're trying soccer, they're trying track and field, they're trying cycling. There is like The goal is for the kids to try out as many sports as possible cuz then you're the parents are then like trying to let the kids decide is there soccer or is it cross-country skiing or is it track and field you think is the most fun, you know? And based on fun that's where you make the decision more than just being put on like a sport and you get kind of forced a little bit more to just do it for some years rather than just trying out different things and then you can decide for yourself. >> Yeah. It is the counterintuitive path to excellence though over time. Because there is this idea that if you want to be the best, you're going to have to specialize early. And the example that Norway is setting is that that's an incorrect way of thinking about it. Have you read David Epstein's book Range? >> No. >> So, it's all about this. I'm going to send you this book. Basically, we have this idea that um the best people in the world specialized early and they just they were just focused and they put in their 10,000 hours and that's that's the only way you're going to get to the top. And there are examples of that. You have the Tiger Woods and you know, those those sorts of individuals, but by and large, when you canvas the best in the world in all kinds of disciplines from science and academia to, you know, athletics uh you will see that the people that not only are the best, but have sustained long careers of excellence are people that did lots of things when they were young. And then arrived into their specialty a little bit later with all of this experience that has contributed to not only peak performance, but sustaining that peak performance. >> Yeah, and I think that if you have tried out many different things and you found out that soccer is what I love the most. Imagine how many hours and how much energy you're able to then put into soccer because you know that that's the sport you love the most or if it's cross country skiing it doesn't matter but like I think just have been able to try out different things and as a kid figure out that okay this sport is where I like to put my focus and this is where I like to to spend my time then you're able to spend thousands of hours practicing that sport. >> experiences aren't distractions they're actually contributing to your success in your specialty. Like you were a soccer player I know there was a moment where you had to make a decision whether you're going to go into soccer or skiing but your experience as a soccer player on the pitch contributed to your success as a skier because it gave you a different kind of fitness and a practice of agility in a different context that has improved your technique as a skier. >> Absolutely and I think that's um it is an interesting topic because I feel like everyone thinks and a lot of people thinks that you need to to do it this way or the other but I think there is I think we in Norway we have at least tried to found like a middle way here where we keep as many of the kids to participate for as long as it's possible and then we hopefully then and then that's at least what we have seen over years now that that has developed a lot of top athletes in so many different sports. >> I love the outdoors but I'll admit ever since I started driving my Rivian I find myself making even more time to just hop in and take it [music] to places where I can live real experiences. I was recently able to drive an R2 with RJ Scaringe the founder and CEO of Rivian and we talked about how this is no accident. How how does that how does that idea of like how are we creating this you know, completely seamless connection with the outdoors through a [music] car that you know, by definition sort of has to seal you off from the outdoors? Like and how do the design decisions inform, >> [music] >> you know, that perspective? >> If you're in this car, you should feel like if you want to go somewhere and explore a hike or stay out a little later, it's there. It's just again a little nudge to say, it's okay to explore. >> Yeah. >> Seek out the unknown. The front trunk has a drain plug in it. And the rear of the glass dropping in this car is a really [music] nice feature cuz it allows you to throw a surfboard in the back or you can easily put your gear in the back. So, it's just all these little things that are, you know, that yes, they're features and they're [music] on their own, they're maybe not the whole story, but you put them all together as a meal, it should feel like a product that's just built for someone that wants to go live you know, full adventurous life. >> To watch the rest of our conversation and learn all about the R2 and the places it can take you, go to stories.rivian.com/richroll. This episode is brought to you by Whoop, the wearable health and fitness coach that turns insights about your sleep, your recovery, your strain, and your overall health into better daily decisions. Here's a phrase I keep coming back to. We measure longevity in years, but we measure life in moments. [music] And the older that I get, I turn 60 this fall, the more I care about the second part. It's not just about adding time, it's about the quality of life in every moment of time that I have left. [music] And that's how I view my Whoop. I've got real goals ahead, getting back to pain-free running, and hopefully, fingers crossed, being fit and injury-proof enough to participate in the New York City Marathon this fall to celebrate my 60th birthday. But the only way I'm going to get there is by understanding my body the best I can and by meeting its needs without exceeding them, WHOOP prevents me from making those bad decisions. By being able to see how my sleep is trending, how I'm absorbing the strain of my training to recover efficiently, I now know when to push and when to back off, which has allowed me to show up with more energy, more presence for the stuff that matters most. And that's the real promise of WHOOP. Not more data, more life in your years. So, check it out, go to join.whoop.com/roll [music] for 1 month free of WHOOP. >> I want to talk about soccer a little bit. So, you've been supporting Norway, you've been going to the games. You're going to go to the final here uh this weekend. How many of the Norway games did you go Did you go to all of them? >> No, I didn't have time to do that. So, um I came for the the most important match, which was uh against Senegal uh in the group stage. So, I was just here for 3 4 days. Uh One of my good friends is uh is playing, so I wanted to to come out and and cheer for them. And it was I mean, it was a cool experience and just seeing how much uh soccer I mean, it's we haven't qualified for the World Cup in 28 years. So, in Norway now it's just been complete World Cup fever in Norway. Like, we It's like we say in Norway, it's just been crazy. Everyone is drinking beer. They are staying up late cuz the cuz of the time difference. And just been completely uh >> out of their skulls. >> Yeah, I would say so. >> [laughter] >> It's been all about the World Cup. >> the thing. Like, you're the absolute goat in your sport. I can't imagine uh you would trade it for anything, but is there Is there a small part of you that is that is is at these games, you know, watching Norway play thinking, you know, that could have been me, man. I could have been I could I could have been out there like maybe like >> Absolutely. >> [laughter] >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> So many times. >> at what's going on with Erling and how the world has just fallen in love with this guy and he's just become the most famous and celebrated athlete in the world. >> I know. >> And you're like, damn, man. >> With with good reason though. I mean, he's he's a great guy and he has it's so impressive what he >> Are you mates with him? >> I've been meeting him a couple of times in terms of like some we have some mutual sponsors together. But yeah, he he is a great guy. I mean, it's just amazing to see what he has accomplished over the last I mean, over the his so far in his career, but also specially this this World Cup. I mean, it was so much fun. So >> And talk about somebody who understands social media. It's insane. >> Yeah. >> So here's what you need to do. You need to You need to make a YouTube video with him where you make him do a day in your life and then you live a day in his life like in training and nutrition, etc. I think that I think like the world would go insane. >> I agree. I think that could be that could be something really cool cuz I like like I said, a few of my a lot of my friends are soccer players and it's just I know I mean, in the in the summers we all normally go to a week of holidays together during the summer and when we then compare the trainings like soccer player against like me as a cross-country skier, it's like we were a couple of years ago we were in Lofoten up north in Norway and um I was going out for a 3-hour double poling session in the morning and I came back and then um they have been or he has been out running. He'd been running like 5 km and then he had done 10 times 100 200 m up a hill. >> Uh-huh. >> That was the session, and it has been an amazing session, you know? And that was probably for, say, an hour max. And then I was out for 3 hours, came back, and knew that I was going out for another 2 hours in the evening. While he was just having an hour, and was super satisfied, and that was a really good training day for him. So, it's it's really like when you compare those >> in terms of hours, it's it's completely different, of course, but they have a way different like muscle stress on their muscles compared to what I have when I do 3-hour sessions, but yeah. Sometimes when I'm doing like 3 hours in mud up in Trondheim, like it's raining, and it's just terrible weather. Sometimes I wish I was like a soccer [laughter] player, do like an hour, hour and a half, and I was like, "That was good." But >> Yeah. No, I know. >> Also, also, in terms of like how much you're getting paid by the hour, is a big difference. >> a big difference as well. >> [laughter] >> One thing I didn't know about you is that in, I think it was 2020, you signed a 5-year professional cycling contract. Like you joined a professional cycling team. Are you still It's not surprising that you would use the bike to train for ski, but this is how good you are as an overall like diverse athlete. >> Yeah, so so the reason for for me to do that was that me and my granddad was was looking into how can we develop the endurance now? What can we do to become a little bit better? And then we went back to see what what I have done the previous years, and then I had one year where I was had broke my collarbone. So, I needed to bike for like uh weeks until I was able to use my my upper body again and uh that season I was doing it very good on the skating races. So, we went back and looked into okay, what can we do this year to to develop the endurance and then um I knew the guy that was in charge of the cycling team and I started texting them and we we figured out that if I'm going to do more cycling in my training >> [clears throat] >> I want to learn cycling from the best. And that's why I I contacted them and we decided that this is something we can work together on. And so, I went from cycle I used the bike 30 hours you over year and change that to using it 100 hours a year. >> Mhm. >> Um but I just wanted to I wanted to learn as much as possible from the cycling team in terms of how I can use the bike and just fitting and and everything so I I do things properly cuz I think that's always been one of my key factors that when I first start doing something and first going to do something, I really want to do it well, you know, and I want to go into the details and see what can I do to to do better and that was actually why why we started working with you know X which is now a world tour team. They 2 days ago had a stage win in Tour de France and they've just been crushing it the last last couple of years. So, it's it's cool to have taken part of that and actually learned from from the best. >> Are you still on the team? >> Yeah, I'm still on the team but it is they have the season when I don't have the season. So, it's hard to to kind combine those things but the last years I've always been in the Tour de France just watching >> Uh-huh. >> taking part for some days. Uh, this year I didn't have time, but it's uh >> Did you race also? >> I haven't been racing, so that's kind of uh I wish I did, but I think I think I started I actually got a text from Thor Hushovd, which is kind of the >> Oh, yeah. Absolute legend and and director now. >> Yeah, and he wanted me to like see if we could quit skiing and and start cycling, but I think unfortunately I think it's too late in terms of like I think building the endurance in the uphill would be possible not against Tadej for sure, but like in um in a quite good um good way I think it would be possible to have good enough endurance cuz I think we the VO2 and everything is is very good, but I think the biggest challenge it would be just staying in the pack. Like imagine how much cuz I don't have been racing, you know, and also the downhills for sure. >> I mean a lot of that you can learn. There's some aspect of it because you haven't been doing it since birth that would probably be difficult, but you can learn to ride in a pack. You could all a lot of that is trainable. Like it would be cool to see you jump into a maybe a shorter stage race and and see what you can do and and uh that could be another career. >> Yeah, I I don't know if it's too late. Turning 30 and >> I don't think it's too late. it's a factor of like there's a lot of things you could do. What should you do, you know? >> Oh, that's true. >> But the bike as a training device is exceptional because it's almost like a data extraction machine. Like the amount of data and feedback that you can get um from the bike is probably superior to what you get when you're skiing, right? Just in terms of like wattage and like all that all that how you can like calibrate and dial in your training. And you can spend You can do back-to-back 8-hour rides. I don't know what it's like in skiing and and the toll that would take on your body, but as a vehicle to develop your aerobic engine, um >> I think I think it's It's a lot of similarities and I think the biggest difference is, like you said, I think in in cycling, you have the all the data. In In skiing, it that is actually difficult. I mean, the things we can measure is is >> So, you don't have a power meter in your in your ski. >> We don't We don't. So, so it's like uh I would say skiing is way more feeling based, you know? When I'm going out for 3-hour session, I basically do it on feeling and >> You have a heart You have a chest heart rate, though. >> Yeah, and that's that's kind of the only measurement we can use. Um but when I'm racing, it's it's only it's all only feeling. I I don't ever look at my my heart rate during a race. I just go there and take it step by step by by feeling. >> Do you wear that Do you look at the data afterwards? Like do Are you wearing like a Garmin or a similar type device when you're racing? >> Um I've always been or the last couple of years I've been just using my Whoop here on the bicep as kind of during the races and I mean, it's accurate enough, I think. I mean, it's it's better to use a Garmin in terms of like getting the But I get the picture and that's kind of what I'm interested in cuz um for me, it doesn't change anything if my heart rate was 190 or 1 85. It doesn't change anything before the race that I'm going to do next day cuz the routines, the recovery parts, the nutrition part is is still more or less the same. >> Yeah. Have you ever trained with Christian or Gustav? >> No, I haven't. >> Have you met Olaf, uh, their their coach? You guys would get along. >> He is a part of the uh, he's part of the UN X team as well now. >> Oh, he is. Okay, cool. >> Uh, but yeah, he's a he's an interesting guy and uh, what he has done with the yeah, with triathlon in in Norway and I mean, in the world. I mean, he has the measurements and all the things and data they have collected over the years. It's It's just insane. >> Yeah, I mean, for someone like yourself who's an experimenter and is always trying to, you know, find that that new thing or that edge, uh, you know, Olaf's like catnip for you. You guys should definitely >> I think so. I think so. >> Uh, not to replace your grandfather. I'm sure he knows a lot, but like Olaf is a different animal. >> Yeah, absolutely. And he's yeah, his vision and everything, I think it's It is impressive to to see what they have accomplished as well. >> What's cool about you also is that this is a family affair. You've got your grandfather as your coach, uh, your dad is your manager, yeah. Your mom handles the finances and your brother is like your social media manager, right? Like he's he's driving the YouTube, uh, channel for you. So, it's all in the family. >> Yeah. Uh, we started when I was 18 and I decided I wanted to do YouTube. I said to my brother, "I'll need someone to edit it." So, he by himself went on YouTube and learned how to edit on YouTube, you know, and uh, that was how it's how it started and then when I started first started winning races, um, my granddad has always been my coach, so it was very natural to to continue to have him, uh, since uh, we had made that success already when I was 20, but uh, when I first won a World Cup race, it was just overnight things changed back home and there was like a lot of interest in terms of sponsorships, media, all the things that kind of comes along to winning a race and uh I needed help and my my dad was just um was able to first he started helping me 50% and then he worked 50% but then over last years it's just that has developed to 100% work and that's the only thing he do >> Yeah. >> these days and uh I'm feel feel really privileged to have like the family around me to to be able to uh join me on to have my brother here uh join me on a trip like that to give him the opportunity to see the World Cup final on Sunday to to experience the same things that I have been experiencing. It's it's really cool and uh I think it has been um uh a nice thing to have the family and then you also have like the so this comes with some challenging for sure challenges. You know want to you don't want to ruin like the family relationship uh so I feel like that's kind of the balance we always have been >> [clears throat] >> uh trying to to to figure out in terms of like when you have a Sunday dinner you want to talk about the family not about me racing, you know, and uh that's kind of the that's kind of the challenging part. >> In addition to your insane uh training regimen you're also known for having tremendous technical intelligence. You know intuitively like when to conserve your energy, when to draft, when to make your move. It's it's very strategic uh this sport the more I dig into it. Um so I want to talk a little bit about that as well as the origin of this technique that you developed, this running up hill hill technique that has become kind of your signature move. >> Yeah, so I feel like my the technical aspect has always been something like to talk a little bit about the earlier was that was something we decided to do at a really young age cuz I felt like that was important, but um over the last years if you know with so many mass starts that we have and so many sprints I think I have developed like a way of seeing things that I've always been really curious about how I can do things better and I've always been very analytic in terms of how I do things and I think I have brought that into my sport as well in terms of how I look to a sprint race. There is things that I want to I I kind of set a plan in terms of what I can do and then I I really spend time looking back at uh what I did last year. Like how did I how did I manage to do this this turn always been fascinating about watching Formula 1 in terms of like how they do the curves and and stuff like that that I can bring into my own sport that hopefully help me to get a little bit of an advantage against my my competitors and uh I think the technical and technical aspect is for me what I think is the most fun about my sport. >> Yeah, the only like the closest parallel to me is watching a bunch sprint in a cycling race. So if you're Mark Cavendish or you're some other sprinter like it's not who wins isn't necessarily a function of who's going to generate the most power out of their legs. Yes, it's their lead out, but it's also this sixth sense of like where to be. You know, there's so many people like in that pack angling to be in the right position to cross the finish line first. And there just are people like Mark Cat, they know exactly where to be. They can see the future and they can anticipate where everyone's going to move and you know, when you have these mass starts and you're in these sprints, it's like so much of it is like where do I need to be? Like right place, right time so that I can set myself up to be in position to win this race. >> Yeah, I agree. And I think um I think if we have done like a 100-m sprint just flat out like track and field. Yeah, I think I would I don't necessarily I don't think I'm the fastest one or at least not the one that are having the most amount of power. But I think if we take it at the end of a race is different cuz then you're kind of when my legs are everyone is a little bit tired, I think it is way different compared to when everyone is fresh. But also uh just like you said, having I have done so many sprints that I kind of know where I need to be at the right time. And I think that is something you develop if you are a little bit analytic, but also if you have done it enough times. >> Yeah. >> That's kind of something I So I think like when you look at Mark Cavendish and see how many wins he have, you know, he has over so many years developed so many so much knowledge and so much experience in terms of where he needs to be in all different kind of finishes, you know, if it's uphill, if it's flat, if it's slightly downhill, there is like he kind of knows it and I think um that's something you need to work on, but also I think some of the it's just it's just the way you you are, I guess. >> Yeah. Yeah. A sixth sense, but also a muscle memory that comes with experience. >> Yeah. >> The uphill running, the the the Klæbo run. So, this is pretty revolutionary. We're used to seeing people go uphill on skis in that kind of V motion, right? That's how everyone has already done it. And the idea being like this is a moment to conserve energy. Like, but instead, you're like, I'm going to burn all my matches and just go flat out. Like, the amount of energy expenditure that is required for you to do that has to be insane. So, it's a gamble, right? When you do it. Like, you can't just do that all the time because you're really redlining yourself to the absolute max when you do that. And I even read that you can't even train it that often because it's so depleting. >> Yeah, and I feel like I think you can you saw it a little bit during the Olympics, but there was a few guys that were kind of burning their tank uh already in the quarter final and semi-final. And when they came to the final and we increased the speed a little bit, they were just >> it. >> were not able to to to do it. So, um that technique came from me and my granddad working on a session in in Trondheim where I was struggling with some some bad grip on my skis. And instead of just putting on more and more grip, we decided, "Okay, I'll just jump outside um the tracks and I I tried to run a little bit." And I saw that I was actually able to to have a better grip, but uh so I didn't need to put on more wax. And then we just decided, "Okay, let's This is interesting. Let's uh come back tomorrow, and then we we take the time. Uh we start running from the bottom with one pair of skis with a little bit less uh grip, run on the side of the the hill, and we take the time. And the time is uh say 50 seconds. And then we go back and put on another pair of skis with more grip, and we go inside the track, but we are gliding kind of the more regular skiing. >> [clears throat] >> And we see that, "Okay, we're using 52 seconds." Okay, then we have like an edge here. This is This is interesting in terms of how we can How can we develop this? And this was how we we started with a running part, and then over years we have just tried to develop it year by year. Uh but like you said, we're not able to do that very often cuz it just I'm burning so much energy, and I I know that like every the start of every season we have like this race in Finland where we have like this last uphill. And everyone is running the same way now. Like everyone is running >> copying you, but that just because uh they've seen you do it doesn't mean they can do it. >> No, and then you see like everyone is just at the end of the the race and the day after all the people that have done the sprint is just completely destroyed in their muscles. And it is the same for for me as well, but so you see over a weekend where if you're going to do three races, doing this on a Friday, it is it is brutal for for the next couple of days of of racing. But on the other hand, I think that is kind of something you learn over years as well in terms of how how do I save as much energy as possible but just use enough to win. And uh but um yeah, it is I would say it's an interesting story cuz it started just a little bit um random on a training day in Trondheim but ended up being something that has really changed the way we do uphill skiing. >> This episode is brought to you by Pulsetto. >> [music] >> Now, I've been in the wellness world a long time. I've seen a million gadgets come and go, all pitched to solve this or that, only to discover that there really is no there there. But, the Pulsetto had such a noticeable impact on a person I care about that I decided I had to try it myself. And the crazy thing is that it really does work, deepening my sleep at night and giving me a more consistent, [music] calmer energy throughout the day. All right. So, these are not headphones. You don't put it on like this. The Pulsetto Fit is a wearable device that sits around your neck just like this. 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So, cuz I knew that in during the race and everything when I when I was running up that hill cuz I I knew when I started the final when I started and put some speed on the first half part of the final and I saw that people were struggling, I kind of knew that okay, this is today I'm going to win. And then when I put my my full speed on on the last uphill, I was like I I felt like I was like this this is it. Now I feel like I'm I'm really hitting every single push that I'm making and I know that no one else is able to to follow this speed especially because we went quite fast the first half part of the race and just turning your head on the top of the hill and just seeing that you have a huge gap it was I mean, that was an amazing feeling, but I didn't understand it cuz I didn't knew how it was looking before I was come back to the hotel and I saw the video myself and I was like it looks pretty good. >> pretty good. >> [laughter] >> So, I was like >> And if you're in your world like people have seen you do that before, but for the average person, it was like, what is going on? Like I've never seen anything like that before. >> Yeah, I mean, but I I think that's kind of like cool part about the Olympics as well cuz there is you're able to broadcast sports that over world where people normally don't pay attention to it and I think it's it is because it is every fourth year. It is but it is something special. Olympics is something special and uh even though for me personally just winning the year before uh the six golds in Trondheim, which is where I grew up, you know, and having a hundreds of thousands of people in the forest watching me win the last race on the 50K in Trondheim. Personally was a big success for me cuz it was in my hometown. >> Uh-huh. >> But no one out there is paying attention to a world world championship in Norway, but when you come to the Olympics, you can just you can just feel the difference. It's just uh way different. But um on the other hand, it was it was cool to finally have like a Olympics in Europe where it's a little bit easier for everyone to pay attention, you know. We have the the one in Pyeongchang and the one in Beijing. I mean, it was those was cool Olympics as well, but it was it's harder because of the time zone and everything, but just having it in Europe and knowing that it's in 2034, it's going to be in Salt Lake. It's just yeah, I think that's special. >> My understanding is that you were much more nervous about the world championships in your hometown the year before the Olympics than you were at the Olympics. And the fact that you walked away from that with six golds allowed you to relax at the Olympics. Do you think that that that that having that experience in Trondheim the year before like allowed you to like gave you the confidence and the ability to just you know, kind of be yourself at the Olympics and not get caught up in all of the anxiety and insanity of it. So that you could you could unleash those performances. >> Yeah, I think so cuz I think like for me personally that the world championship was so it was so huge, you know, it was I was so nervous in front of the the World Championship and I >> [snorts] >> kind of was isolated with myself and my dad for uh months uh prior to the >> [gasps] >> to the World Championship and uh I didn't see anyone. I was uh just really locked in together with my dad. And when the World Championship was was finished, I felt like, "Okay, I'm super tired. Mentally, I feel like I'm just really exhausted." And then I over the during that spring, I kind of figure out, "Okay, we I need to do some changes in terms of who I bring with me and how I do things." And one of my friends um wanted to join before Olympics and we were out on the uh altitude camps three times during the fall and during the winter. And just bringing new energy in, just having like a friend where I wasn't thinking that much about Olympics, you know, we're just having fun. I'm I was doing everything right. I was training well. I was doing my recovery, eating uh healthy, but it was it was a factor where fun was an important part of the the daily routines and I think that really made a big difference cuz when I came into the Olympics, I was like, "This is going to be fun, you know? I feel like I'm for sure I'm nervous, but is it this is something I I know what to do." And then when the Olympics was over, you know, I was I wasn't that exhausted. I was just "Nice, this was this was a a crazy fun experience. Uh I wish it lasted longer, you know? And instead of after the World Championship, I just stayed in my my bed for 6 days and was just completely completely down, but after the the Olympics, it was just I want to do this more, you know? >> And that's an evolution from was it some years prior when you basically isolated yourself and you didn't want to see anyone cuz you were afraid you were going to get sick and you wouldn't go out to dinner and you just basically like wouldn't let anyone come near you. >> I think that's kind of especially after COVID. That was something we cuz uh for for us as a cross-country skier, the worst thing that can happen is that you just get a little bit sick, you know, cuz then you're not able to perform and you're not able to race either. Uh but after COVID and everything, it was just so many you started using the mask. >> Mhm. >> Uh you're traveling, you you kind of save uh you you try to like just stay away from people. >> person is a a pending impending threat. >> Yeah, and [laughter] >> that's not a great mindset to walk around with for anybody. >> No, and it's it's not a healthy way of of living your life either and that's why I think when when the World Championship was over and I said to my my dad like this this can't continue, you know, we need to do some changes. I need to have some other things in my life that is pulling me away from being that strict cuz it is not healthy and uh I feel like that's what we did prior to the Olympics and I mean I was traveling during the winter. I didn't even think about the mask, you know, I was like uh I was I wouldn't have been here before the World Championship, you know? Now I'm here. I feel really relaxed. People are coughing on the street, coughing on the side of me when I'm sitting on the >> But you're in the petri dish of New York City right now, so. >> And I couldn't care, you know? And I think that's just a way more healthy way of living. I I'm so glad that I'm I've understood that now and that I can >> Yeah. >> don't go back to that state. >> Um but you're still a maniac. Uh like it's it's it it's a rare individual who goes from the 14-year-old who's getting middling results to the 15-year-old who says I'm going to be the best in the world. So there is this constitutional degree of self-confidence that you're equipped with. And I'm curious around your like how you train your mindset. Like do you have practices for that? Like do you pay attention to that? Do you invest in the mental game? Cuz we can get into like a week in the life of your physical training, but I'm interested in how you think about your mind. >> I spend a lot of time practicing my mind. And I think one of the things or where I use spend the most time is that I I do a thousand hours of training every single year. And I do so many sessions where I just go out 3 hours by myself in the forest and I'm running in the mud and it's just um >> [clears throat] >> for for me that's kind of my therapy where I work on my mind cuz that's where I visualize the races. That's where I uh talk to myself and try to like find a balance in terms of um where I'm I going to use my my energy and where is it no point of of using it. And so without like saying that I go to someone and talk to someone regularly. I would say that I I still are spending so much time. I mean, it's still in my own head, but it's like I still have some sort of plan in terms of when I'm out on a 3-hour session, it's like I really want to go through some things like, "Okay, this is something I would like to work on like the mental part." And um I think the mental part has shown me over the years like before the World Championships, I woke up the last 2 weeks, even though I was sick 4 weeks before the before the World Championship, I was waking up 2 weeks before, and I had so much pain in my throat like every single morning. And my data and everything was like completely good, but I just I felt like I was thinking myself sick every single morning. >> Oh, that's interesting. >> happened first time in 2018. >> Just the the anxiety and the fear of getting sick. >> Yeah. >> Created physical symptoms. >> For the because for me the worst thing that can happen is to get sick. I'm not afraid of losing. I'm not afraid of uh like that it's not going to do well, but I'm the worst thing that can happen is that I get sick and not be able to be on the starting line starting line fighting for the the victory. And so that has And it was better before the before the Olympics cuz I feel like I have more I'm more adapted to it, and I feel like for me when I get the symptoms of having a sore throat before the World Championship, it is always also some sort of symptoms that we're getting closer to something that is really important for me. You know, and I feel like I'm building up that kind of energy. So, when I'm on the starting line in World Championship, I know that okay, I've had the pain in my throat cuz it's part of my routines now. And I am really motivated and I feel like I'm I'm so nervous. And when I'm getting nervous, that's where I also perform at my highest level cuz when it means something for me, it makes it a little bit better, you know? And uh I think compare that to World Cup race where I mean, I've done 200 World Cup races and I don't get this nervous as I get before the World Championship or the Olympics. And I think that's it happens first time in 2018 and it has happened every single championship from that year until almost it was not that much this year, but like until up on the World Championship last year. >> I think the mental game is even more important for you now because things are different. Like you've been to a couple Olympics, you've been at the top of your game for a while, but because of your performance at in you know, this past year, there's a white-hot spotlight on you right now. Like you're in New York City, you went to the SPYs last night, you're going to get feted at the Time 100 event this evening. A lot of attention, a lot of sponsor obligations, and that comes with expectations. Now you're the guy who's expected to win. You're no longer the guy who's out to prove that you're the best. Now you got to hold on to it. Now you got to continue to maintain that level of excellence, and that's a different kind of pressure that requires even more attention to how you're nourishing your mind and and making sure that your mindset is dialed. >> Yeah, I agree. >> Yeah. And, uh I think, uh you know, just by remember how it was when you were I would say a kid, but when I was 20 and came into the World Cup, no one expected me to win, you know, and it was like just having the mental feeling that you are attacking, you know? More like now it's >> defending >> It's more like defending. And, um it does something to you, and you need to you need to be aware of it, and you also need to do some adjustments mentally to be able to cuz at the end it's, uh, like my granddad always said, it's it's just a race. >> Mhm. >> at the end. But, it's not that easy, you know? And it's it is, the mental part is, uh, for me as important as >> Mhm. >> the physical part, cuz the physical part I I've always been very, um, motivated to do the the physical work that kind of what that it required of you. >> It's I don't think it's about the train You're going to always train, you know? >> I think so. >> hard. Yeah, that's not the issue. I think the secret is what contributed to your success at this past Olympiad, which is enjoying it and and making it fun. I'm thinking of um conversation that I had with John John Florence on the podcast, the world champion surfer, and he struggled once he was the best and, you know, he won the world championship like the expectations were like so daunting to him, and his way back was developing this visualization practice where he would he would visualize every aspect of the wave and how he was going to ride it, but not from the perspective of riding it perfectly, but more from the perspective of the emotions he wanted to feel when he was on the wave. Like the same emotions that he had when he he a little kid. Like the more you can kind of inhabit that joy and that like love for the sport, it alleviated the pressure and allowed him to then kind of get back on top. >> I think it all makes sense, you know. Uh and I think for me that's what the last Olympics showed was like having fun when you're out there racing and like every day upon the upon the race it was it makes life so much easier, but it also makes it better, you know. It was I I don't think I would have been able to win those six races if I didn't have a lot of fun on the road until until the Olympics cuz it's just made I mean, I have 268 days away from home. That was the amount of days I had away from home last year. And then you need to find the right way of treating yourself on the road. And I think fun is probably the best ingredients to having uh having the best life you can live. And for me that's something that really that I learned last year. >> Mhm. And you have a girlfriend, right? >> I have a girlfriend, so we we have been [laughter] away from each other for a long time. So, we have been kind of used to that, but I think like that we And I feel like that's something I learned as well last year was that we need to and she's now joining me for a little bit more. And I think that just makes sense and it's just easier and it's way better cuz I think I will perform better as well when you have everything more in balance. >> And are you still going to split time between Norway and Park City? >> That's the plan. >> So, Park City's basically your second home. Yeah. >> I would say I would say so. So, I'm you're renting the same house every year. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh going back end of August, staying for a month, and a little bit over a month. So, um >> [clears throat] >> Utah and Park City has been so great. I mean, it's it's been amazing. Just having 8 hours time difference from Norway amazing. You can just [laughter] you can just like >> to call people back right away. >> you wake up, it's 2:00 there, and you know that [snorts] when you are done with your or when you're going out for your second session, everyone is back at home, they're sleeping. So, >> Right. You're training when they're Okay. >> So, when you're like in your evenings, it's completely quiet. You can just relax, chill, and do the things you you like. So, uh Park City has been some a place that I really like, and I I have said it, and I wish I said I have said it to my my dad as well as that if it was more money into cross-country skiing, like I would have uh loved to have a home in Park City just because I I love the place. It's an expen- >> [laughter] >> It's a really expensive, but my physiotherapist lives in in Midway, just beside the Park City, and uh so, um I spend a lot of time there, and um yeah, Soldier Hollow, where the Olympics is going to be in 2034, it's a place where we do a lot of the roller skis intervals during uh the period when we are there. So, um >> The appeal is what? At the altitude, the community? >> Yeah, just, you know, it's really high cuz it's 2,300 m, Uh, is in Europe which if you're going to place where it's 2,300 m, it is more or less on top of a pass. So, if you're going to do roller ski session, you need to either drive down the valley and then do the training there and then go up at the end of the session. But in Park City, I I put my roller skis on in the garage and then I can just go out. I can do a flat lap. I can do uphills all the way up to 3,000 m. Uh, and I can do hilly laps. So, there's so many opportunities and possibilities to to train well there and uh, I mean it's in August, September, it's a quiet place. It's not many people. And the weather it's compared to Norway it's just amazing, you know. Uh, being able to go in shorts and t-shirts in September it's where we are when we are used to go in like long sleeves in uh, in Norway and it's raining. >> Most of the time. >> Yeah. >> Uh, so 1,000 hours of training a year. Uh, breakdown a typical uh, week of training when you're in heavy training. Like how much of it is strength, the roller ski thing, like how much of it is you on the snow, like what does it what does it look like? >> Yes, if you take a regular week uh, during the summer which is where we have the most amount of training. Uh, it's from the 1st of May until end November it's kind of the peak months of of training volume. Uh, but for example, last week I had 32 hours of training. Um, I have 3 hours, no, 2 and 1/2 hours of intensity three training which is threshold. Uh, I have two 2 hours of strength during a week. And then I more or less have 50% uh >> Just zone two. >> And I I barely do zone two actually. So, that's that's that is an interesting part. >> Tell me Talk to me about that. >> [snorts] >> So, what we have figured out is that if I do zone two is that's kind of what's destroying my fast muscle fibers. So, for me, I do my intensity one is really >> Zone one. >> Zone one is where I do a 8% of my training. >> Interesting. >> And then I do so like last week we I do 3 hours in the morning zone one. Go out, do 2 hours in the afternoon zone one. That could be a day one. Day two it's I do 30 minutes warm up, do a an hour hour 15 of threshold. Uh and then I >> are like on the on the um the roller skis mostly or is it on the bike? Is it like >> Yes, I would say on a 32 hours weeks like I had last week, I probably do uh 3 4 hours of running. >> Mhm. >> 3 4 hours of 4 5 hours of biking. And then the rest is roller skis. >> And the roller skis are like they're almost like like these roller blade type >> Yeah, longer roller blades basically. So, we have one pair which is skating which you it's similar to when you're skating. And then you have classic which you also have it's really similar to doing classic but then you have grip so you can go diagonal, you can double pole. Uh so, you have two different pairs of roller skis, one for each um discipline basically. >> Mhm. >> Uh so, the majority of the training during a week is is roller skis and then we add on uh like last week I didn't run that much cuz I knew that I was going here. When I'm here, I don't I didn't bring my roller skis, so here I'm doing just running. So, I try to pri- pri- make it like prioritize a little bit. So, last week was more roller skiing than normal. This week, more running than normal. So, it's at the at the end we do I would say 10% of my training is cycling, 20% 25% of my training is um >> [clears throat] >> running. >> Okay. That's a lot That's Wow, more running than cycling. >> Yeah. So, more running than cycling. And then uh 5% of my training is or between 5 and 7% of my training is strength. And then the rest is roller skis and skis during summer and winter. >> Yeah. There's a lot of confusion around zone two. It's interesting that you say when you uh focus on zone two, it's eroding your high-end speed. It's a threat to your high-end speed. But I think what might get confused in this is the fact that when you're as fit as you are, your zone two is nothing like what people think zone two is because zone two is actually quite taxing when you're super fit. Like to be at that level that's just below threshold and sustain that for a long period of time is going to have an impact on recovery more so than somebody who's less fit. Like a lot of people who are getting into endurance sports are like, "Zone two is so slow. I don't feel like I'm doing anything." It's cuz you're not fit. Like if you're you or Tadej Pogačar, for them to go you know, for you guys to go out and do 4 hours of zone two, like you're going to pay a toll for that in a way that a lesser fit person will not. >> Yeah, and the recovery aspect is kind of the most important part here, you you cuz it's probably it just makes the total uh volume a little bit too heavy for me in terms of that I cuz when I go doing a 50k, I do more or less threshold, you know, so I try to prioritize having like an hour and a half hour and 15 minutes each session on threshold instead of going out and do 3 hours of zone two, you know, cuz threshold is more similar to where I'm going to race while you look into cyclist where they do a lot of their a race for them is a lot in zone two, you know, so for me it's always been about looking into what do you do or how is your sport or what requires to do your sport, you know, so for me I I'm doing it based on what I believe is the right way for me to do a cross country skiing and then I know that there's plenty of other ways to to do it, but it's for me it's always been about looking into the talk total package about how much does it require of uh recovery for each session and just my morning session this morning when I was running an hour on the treadmill, I mean I was running seven uh miles per hour uh and that is like really easy zone one and then imagine just having the impact on the muscles if you're going to run nine miles per hour just because that's um >> [clears throat] >> that's zone two, you know, so the impact on the body as well is is important to calculate into the to the total amount of training and recovery you're doing. >> And you have have be able to check all the boxes and excel in all of these areas. You have to have that explosive speed but you need that aerobic capacity not just for the longer distances but your aerobic fitness is going to dictate how long it takes you to lower your heart rate after you've run uphill. You know what I mean? Like if if if if that's in the middle of a race how quickly you can get down to baseline in the aftermath of like a you know like like lighting a match like that is going to dictate your overall performance in that race. >> Yeah. That is that's true and I feel like compared to running it is easier to do uh cross country skiing. You mean you you you wait hard in the uphills but then you have like the downhills and the downhills is where you recover and charge [snorts] your energy before the next uphill cuz you're in a 10K you're basically going full speed in every single uphill and then you just need to use the downhills really smarts to be able to keep the speed up but also save and charge your energy. >> Why more running than cycling? I would think cycling would be a better as well as a safer way to build your aerobic engine cuz you without the impact. >> Yeah and then running we are it's kind of running is really similar to classic skiing. I mean it's more similar than than biking so when I'm doing like a 3-hour running sessions in the mud it's like uh it's really it's tough terrain so it's uh it is really hard to run and we are running with poles. So then it's yours kind of uh >> You're simulating. >> simulating a little bit uh skiing >> Uh-huh. more with running. So, I think that's why but I don't think running is necessarily very important to to do well on skiing cuz one year I had a year where I was injured in my hamstring and I was not able to run almost at all. So, and that is one of the years that I've done the best in terms of like results in the World Cup. So, um >> Who knows? Are you doing regular lactate testing? >> Yeah. >> So, we were testing the lactate more or less every single threshold session we have just to make sure we are in in in the line on what we want to be. >> Yeah. And what is the recovery practice? >> Oh, so the recovery practice is it depends a little bit in terms of if you are home or not cuz some of the things is I mean, like here it's not always easy to bring all the things you would like to have but I mean, I'm I'm a huge fan of using my sauna and cold plunge. So, back home I have that. >> be You wouldn't be Scandinavian if you said otherwise. >> No, I know. >> It would be a betrayal. >> So, so I use my I use my sauna and cold plunge quite a lot and uh then I also been using my my red light therapy. Um and then I think just sleep, you know, sleep and healthy food is one of my key factors to my recovery. >> Basic basic things. >> Basic things. >> No crazy Do you use like the compression like the the What are they called? The boots? >> Hyperice, yeah. >> Yeah, the Hyperice those things. >> I have those things but it's not that I use it every single day but I have them as a part of it and sometimes I feel to do it but sometimes it's just good to go back and sleep, you know, just an hour in the middle of the day after a hard training session. It's just easy to lay in the bed and sleep for an hour and I think that's kind of the best recovery you can do. More than just all the other things you can can add on, but I think that they kind of the add-ons is is good to has or to use a little bit, but I think also I think sleep is the most important part. >> Yeah. Um Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the record that you broke for most decorated winter Olympian was previously held by Eric Heiden. >> That's true. >> Uh the American speed skater who burst onto the scene in the 1980 Lake Placid Olympics. Uh I'm old enough to remember uh when he appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated in the full gold suit with his like just gigantic legs and and to me, I mean that he was my hero. I was like I just what he did was mind-blowing. Before that, I didn't know anything about speed skating and I was like obsessed with this guy. But he uh later became an orthopedic surgeon and I believe he lives in Park City. >> Yeah. That's true. >> curious. Have you guys connected? >> Yeah, we have. So, a couple of years ago we had a I think it was 2 years ago, yeah. We had a dinner at my physiotherapist home. So, and he was there. So, it was it was cool to >> cool. >> It's cool to to talk to him and catch up and like just hear about how you know, how they were uh preparing their skates, you know, for for a race and like uh when they sharpen it, you know, and and all those kind of things. It was it was really interesting and I mean he has a You can you can tell that he has a competitive mind, you know? And um so, it was a really was a cool chat and a cool cool opportunity to meet him and yeah, that was uh At that time I didn't kind of cuz that was it was before the World Championship in Trondheim, so at that time no one had won six out of six. >> Yeah. >> Uh So, at that time I didn't understand that it was actually possible to to do something like that, but uh maybe I should invite him for a dinner in uh >> I think so. >> too. >> I think so. I think that you guys are similar in that he introduced this obscure sport to, you know, the the kind of western audience. Um and I think it changed it forever changed the sport and I think that you're doing the same thing for for cross-country skiing in a very cool way. Um there are plenty of people out there uh speculating on how many uh gold medals you're going to win before you hang it up. Is there going to be one more Olympics, two more Olympics, you know, could it be 20 gold, you know, like could we get near Phelps? >> You can get near You can get near. >> versus 23, we're going to approximate it a little bit. >> I mean >> Are you willing to >> If you said I'd If you maximize everything and you do two more Olympics, then you can end up >> have two more perfect Olympics >> then you can end up with 23, but >> you're the all-time Olympic goat. >> I mean >> That's heavy though. That's pretty heavy. >> That's pretty heavy. I think that's I think that's going to be tough, but um but first of all, I've said that I will will do one more first and uh but uh if I know myself well, but the next one after that one is in Salt Lake. So, it's going to be in Park City or in Soldier Hollow so much of my time, so for me finishing up my career in Park City would be some kind of a dream, but it's still eight more years. So, it's I don't know if it's realistic, but I will do everything I can in terms of staying in shape, taking care of my body, and everything, and then we'll take it year by year, but um I don't think I will I can't promise right now that I will do 2034, but uh I think I have some sort of a is a sort of a dream to to do that, but uh I'm going to take the first 4 years, and then we'll we'll see, but for sure the goal is to to get a little bit closer to Phelps, but uh 23 is going to be hard. >> [clears throat] [sighs] >> There's only so much of this you can control, you know, but to the extent that there are things you can control, I'm pretty confident you're going to control them. >> At least I'm going to try my very best. >> Yeah. Um well, congrats on all your success, man. I'm a I'm a fan, and uh I'm I'm here to cheer you on, man. Uh you're one of the good guys, and it's nice to see you out there. Um not only winning, uh but comporting yourself with a a an admirable admirable amount of of like [music] integrity and dignity, and I think that you are a shining example [music] uh for many young men around the world, uh you know, in an aspirational sense, and uh I salute you, my friend. >> Thank you. I appreciate it. >> Thanks for taking the time to talk to me today, and enjoy New York City. >> I will. Thank you. >> All right. Cheers.