"The US are THE REAL Terrorists" | Fiona Lali on Trump's Palestine Action ban

Duration: 11:09 1976 transcript words EN summary

Video summary

The video features a heated debate between two commentators regarding Donald Trump's decision to ban financial support and visa access for the group Palestine Action. Fiona Lally, representing the Revolutionary Communist Party, argues that labeling this group as terrorists is absurd because the United States government itself acts as the most barbaric and violent terrorist organization on the planet. She contends that the US state perpetuates terrorism through its military actions in the Middle East, such as bombing schools in Iran, and through domestic policies enforced by ICE, which she describes as horrific acts of violence against its own citizens. According to Lally, the Trump administration's crackdown reflects a position of weakness rather than strength, driven by fear of the powerful pro-Palestinian movements that exist across the West. The discussion highlights a fundamental disagreement on the definition of terrorism and the nature of political violence. The opposing commentator challenges Lally's stance by pointing out that Palestine Action members have intentionally harmed individuals, specifically citing an incident where a female security guard was struck with a sledgehammer after being broken into a facility. He argues that while state actors like the US and Israel commit massive destruction on a global scale, the deliberate targeting of human beings and property by non-state groups fits the literal dictionary definition of terrorism. Conversely, Lally maintains that comparing the actions of Palestine Action to the genocide carried out by the IDF and backed by Western imperialism is ludicrous, asserting that true extremists are those who defend the US and UK governments while ignoring the ongoing destruction in Gaza. A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the hypocrisy perceived in Western governments' policies toward Israel versus their treatment of pro-Palestinian activists. The commentator notes that the British government has banned arms exports to Israel under the current Labour administration, yet still arrests people for holding signs supporting Palestine Action, which he views as silly and out of touch with public sentiment. Lally counters that these measures are insufficient because they do not stop the genocide, arguing that Western imperialism continues to provide military, financial, and political backing to Israel. She emphasizes that calling activists who try to stop this genocide "extremists" is a distortion, whereas defending the US and UK crackdowns represents the real extremism in the current geopolitical climate. Ultimately, the dialogue concludes with both sides entrenched in their respective worldviews regarding violence, state power, and moral responsibility. Lally insists that anyone supporting the US government cannot lecture her on violence, as the state itself is the primary perpetrator of terror through its wars and internal repression. The commentator, while acknowledging the gravity of the situation in Gaza, draws a line at direct physical attacks on individuals, maintaining that such acts are distinct from state warfare. The exchange underscores the deep polarization surrounding the conflict, where one side views the US as the ultimate terrorist entity and the other views specific activist groups as dangerous extremists, leaving little common ground for resolution beyond their opposing definitions of justice and security.

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Well, with me now is the campaigns director of the Revolutionary Communist Party, Fiona Lally. Fiona, thanks indeed for joining me this very evening. Um firstly, what do you make of Donald Trump's decision? >> Well, let me start by saying when I saw the news, the first thing that came into my mind is the most barbaric, violent, terrorist organization on the planet is the US government itself. And the fact that it can go around making these announcements about other groups is a reflection of this dystopian world that we live in. I think it comes from a position of weakness. The general clampdown on the Palestine movement, which we should also say is a clampdown on freedom of speech, by the way, reflects the fact that the majority of people actually support those who take direct action against the genocide that is still continuing to take place against the Palestinian people. That's true in the US and that is true in Britain as well. And Palestine action, I mean, what wars have they started? Who have they harmed in comparison to the US government? >> they harmed? Who have they harmed? What about the female security officer who was whacked in the back with a sledgehammer by this group, this violent group? >> If you If you want to talk about violence in the context of Donald Trump, in the context of the US state, which not only it continues to act as a terrorist across the Middle East, is also acting as a terrorist in its own country through ICE, through its horrific policies at home, then the the use of the word terrorist is absolutely ludicrous. Anyone with a brain can see >> do you think the word terrorism means? What do you think the word terrorism means other than trying to achieve a political end by violent means? >> That is precisely what the US government has been doing when they bombed school children in Iran earlier in the year. That is precisely what the US government has always done, followed probably only by the Israeli state, by the way, with the absolute disgusting impunity with which they bomb, invade, and destroy. >> I can I can see what you're trying to do, and you're not going to get me to defend the Iran war here. But of course, a war between states is very different between citizens of a country deciding to carry out violent acts for a political cause. That is the very definition of terrorism. It doesn't matter if it's the IRA planting bombs in bins. It doesn't matter if it's Al-Qaeda putting bombs on buses. And it doesn't matter if it's this particular group of Palestine Action deciding to smash their way into various facilities, harm people, very intentionally harm people, and indeed break property, too. I mean, what what on earth would you define that sort of direction as direct action as other than the literal dictionary definition of terrorism? >> Yeah, what matters is the fact that Trump is terrified. And it's not just Trump. The same thing has happened in Britain as well. Of the fact that there is a powerful powerful movement for the Palestinian people that exists across the West. And they have to take extreme measures by trying to compare a group such as Palestine Action >> don't you think I'm sorry sorry for interrupting. Don't you think that it is actually slightly unbecoming? Don't you think that it actually denigrates the wider Palestine movement to say that every single supporter of Palestine, as you might have just implied there, must support the most heinous sort of direct action. In fact, let's just watch a little video of one of these particular attacks. And yes, I think it's fair to call it a terrorist attack. Let's have a look at let's have a look. >> STOP. >> WELL, THERE IT'S DIFFICULT TO SEE IN THE CHAOS, but members of Palestine Action having broken into a facility, you could see very clearly a large sledgehammer in the hands of one of those individuals cracking into the back of a female security guard. That in my mind is terrorism. >> I have seen and millions of people all over the world have seen over the last 3 years the most disgusting barbaric videos of violence coming out of Gaza because of what the IDF has been doing, because they've been backed to the hilt by the US government. First by Biden and then by Trump, by the way, who claimed that he wasn't going to be in favor of continuing all of these wars and continuing all of this destruction. And he has done the complete >> you stop violence with more violence? >> He's continued wars and he hasn't been able to He's not been able to keep a single promise that he made in the course of his election campaign. Because it's not even about Trump itself, it's about what US capitalist power represents. And in order to maintain their own interests, they will enact as much violence across the world as they have as they have always >> Martin Luther King or Mahatma Gandhi decide to go and beat up officers of the state or indeed smash the back of private security officers at facilities they disliked? Did they do that or did they think the path to political change was carried through peaceful protest? >> I will take no lectures on the question of violence from anyone who speaks in any support of the US government in any capacity. And that's what this comes down to. You can try and abstract it to say >> What do you mean in any capacity? I've been studious in this interview to stay absolutely neutral on the US's action in the Middle East. I have not mentioned one word of support or opposition for it. So, I would just stick to the issue at natural. >> What you have is people who've been targeting machinery that is being used in the genocide against the >> that machinery. >> People who are targeting machinery, people who are targeting planes, things like this. And to try and compare it in any way, shape, or form to the real monstrous terrorist acts that the US government and the IDF specifically, which I would describe as a terrorist state, as a terrorist army, have been enacting not just against the Palestinians, but in people all around that region over the last however many years, is absolutely ludicrous. And I think anyone with a brain can see that. >> Mhm. I really didn't want to get into an argument on the particulars of the Middle East, but I think it's fair to say that we are seeing that we are seeing terror going from Hamas towards Israel as well. That's of course what kicked off this this whole thing. >> a historic transformation in how American people view Israel. There's been a historic transformation in how people across the West understand what is taking place. That is what terrifies the US ruling class. That is what terrifies the British ruling class as well. And that's only going to continue. If you then attack these groups and call them terrorists, it's just going to make people revere or or not revere, it's going to make people repulsed by who the US claims is is is supposed to be an enemy or or not. It's completely out of touch. >> Let's flip this round. Let's flip this round because of course the particulars I think Trump is doing this to distract Let's Let's Let's flip this round because the particulars of this particular decision from Donald Look, Fiona, if we both speak at once, no one can hear either of us. But ultimately, let's talk about the particulars of this decision from Donald Trump. What it actually means. It means that any American cannot provide financial support to this group. It means that any member of this group cannot get a visa to come to the United States. These are two rather moderate, in my view, measures, particularly compared to what the United Kingdom government has done. And I actually think I probably side with you when it comes to the United Kingdom's prescription. I personally think it is absurd that anyone can be arrested on the streets of the United Kingdom for holding up a sign saying the words I support Palestine Action. Those arrests are balmy. And what the British government did there, in my view, is silly. However, it's not what the United the United States government has done, which in my view seems much more sensible. That that it shouldn't be legal to give money to a group that is exists to destroy company property and indeed has on more than one occasion carried out attacks that involve human beings, too. >> And what about the IDF? And what about joining and being a war criminal in the IDF? The like the idea that this is about preventing people supporting violent action is completely false because that is fine >> literally true. >> according to your government and that is fine according also to the British government and and and the Labour government. >> government literally banned arms exports to Israel under the Starmer administration. >> They haven't fully banned arms exports to Israel as we know and and I think the Labour government is in the process >> No weapons can be sold from Britain to Israel. It is against the law. >> And what does that reflect? What does that reflect about the mood in the public that they have to pretend that they aren't giving as many weapons to Israel as they actually currently are. It's because they know >> What do you mean pretend? They literally put forward they changed the export regime. >> It's completely out of touch with the public. >> be good enough for the kind of people that support Palestine Action. That's the truth, isn't it, Fiona? That no matter how much cruel devotion the United Kingdom government gives towards Palestine, no matter how many arms embargoes it puts forward or export regimes it changes, nothing. Or indeed recognition. The United Kingdom government literally recognized the state of Palestine, but none of it's enough for these people because frankly these people are extremists, are they not? >> No. Yeah, what is not enough is the fact that the genocide against the Palestinian people is continuing to take place that is being backed militarily, financially, and politically by Western imperialism. And that begins first and foremost with the most destructive force on the planet, which is the US government of which Donald Trump is the chief terrorist of at the current moment in time. And the British government is completely trailing behind them as are many of the governments across Europe. Yeah, it is not enough that certain things, certain exports were changed. The genocide is continuing to take place and you call the people who are doing everything they can to stop that genesis that that genocide extremists. The extremists are those who are defending the IDF. The extremists are those that are defending the US and defending all of this clampdown against the Palestine movement, whether it's to do with the prescription of Palestine action >> Okay. >> or any other force with that the US is engaged with as well. >> My my definition of extremism tends to quite heavily overlap with people who use violence for political ends, but I'm afraid we're going to have to leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us. Fiona Lali with the campaigns coordinator at the Revolutionary Communist Party, I appreciate your time. This is