The Ultimate Relationship Masterclass: Alex Hormozi vs Tom Bilyeu

Alex Hormozi said it the best, so I'm just going to leave this to him. The single most important decision that you make of all decisions in life is who you spend your life with, like as your significant other. You see guys, in this podcast we've discussed everything from money, life, and business. How could we avoid discussing relationships? Yeah, I think we've talked about uh some really interesting dynamics and perspectives that I've just never considered before. I think Alex Hormozi is one of them. Tom Bilyeu is another that really got me thinking on so many different aspects. I think it's an incredibly important topic that not a lot of people really want to dive into. I think uh it's just it's it's a bit personal for people. It maybe kind of hits too close to home and people might be very opinionated about it, but uh I think there's a lot to learn on this because who you choose as a spouse is so incredibly important. And there's a lot we can take away from these podcasts. I mean, the Tom Bilyeu one alone, he talks about how he built up and sold a business for $1 billion with his wife. My wife is my equal in every conceivable way on balance, but there are things that I'm way better than her at and in those moments I lead. And there are things that she's way better than me at and in those moments I follow. She was instrumental and I think a lot of that and the support that she gave him in those early days of like turning the living room into a shipping facility and like her packaging orders like during the day and then running the entire business from this together I thought was really cool. You think that that would be ripe for disaster, right? Like working with your fiance or spouse in a business, especially when it's that big of one. think, but they started I thought very early on tonight. It's like running that business together. Uh I think it made I think it made sense in that situation. And the Hormozi episode as well, we have Leila and Alex both sitting with us talking about how they built up and sold Gym Launch for what was it? Some like $60 million. was odd too because they started out almost as like business partners. Like they went on that one date, but then it quickly evolved from like going on a date to talking business and then it changed from business then back to being like a relationship. So today you're going to hear their own perspectives on relationships, wealth, and making a lot of money. And that's a topic that not a lot of people talk about. And this episode should give you guys everything you need to have a successful relationship and business. How's your relationship, Jack? Uh it's not so great, but if I had seen this podcast uh maybe 2 months ago, I would definitely have a girlfriend right now. Really? Yes. What would have changed? Uh you know, I I I don't think I would have got that haircut sooner. Really? Yeah. I've been telling you to get the haircut for a long time. No, no, no. No, no, no. Before we start after you subscribe, we're going to put uh some relationship talk at the end, Jack. How's that? Really? Really. Okay. A little bit. Do you remember swiping on Alex's profile? Mhm. What set that apart? Wow. It was a picture of a guy with a six-pack. Oh my god. No, that was the Really? That was the first one? in the water. Yeah, in the water with sunglasses on. It was It was It was not like in the mirror. I was like at the beach, literally in the water, half submerged. So someone else took the picture. like I was I had some floaty or whatever that I was like moving, and someone just had a like Can you tell us Was that a friend? an old picture, okay? Which I realized when we met. Yeah, so that was who it was, but it specifically it was like fitness and business. So it was like own five gyms, fitness, and then like something else. You You remember, I'm sure. Cheap bourbons, expensive steaks. Cheap bourbons and expensive steaks. I can get behind that. Yeah. But I was like, "Ooh, business and fitness." Like that sounds like me, too. So that was why I swiped. Yeah. And then he messaged me immediately after I messaged him and was like, "We should get off the app. Let's talk on the phone." And that was actually what I appreciated the most is I was like, "I'm so sick of these guys that have like so much time to waste, you know, like talking on these apps, not actually like moving forward to a date." I was like, "This is just like lame." So I actually really appreciate that he wanted to talk on the phone. Biggest reason I believe that are among of biggest reasons is that Layla never tried to change me. And that was something that I felt like was a constant in the majority of the other relationships that I had was like, "You're here, I'm here, let's meet in the middle." And that's why I have such strong stances on compromise because I like I don't think you can compromise on you. You know what I mean? And so I always felt like I had to be less than or a different version of myself in order to like make the relationship work. And um I also was in a season where like I just gotten out of a long relationship. So I was like, "I'm not really bending the knee to anyone for anything. Like I'm not compromising. If you don't like my schedule, then cool. Like I'm not going to stop living how I live." And so she just kind of like oriented herself around me and it worked just amazingly well. And I got to do what I want to do all day, which is work. And it was great. How did you feel about that? Did you feel like you needed to compromise or or bend a little bit to fit Alex? Or what was your side of things on that? No. Honestly, I think we got really lucky because I was kind of always the same way, which is like I'm not going to like be less of myself and like less ambitious and less career-oriented for a man because that was what typically they wanted of me. So I actually really liked the fact that he wanted to work all the time because I was just finally somebody that didn't tell me like, "Oh, you need to go do your hair and look pretty." Like it was someone who was like, "Yeah, you should learn how to do this. Like let's build a [ __ ] business. Like let's do all this stuff." Like I just loved that he believed in me so much. And I think most men that I had dated up until that point sure, I'm sure they believed in me, but I don't think that they wanted me to ever be any better than I was because they were worried that it would be better than them. I remember I think it was either the first or second time we had you on. You said that there are two different, you know, relationship structures that work well. And one is like we're in the trenches together, we're grinding it out. The other one is the cheerleader and the football player, right? And what is your sentiment towards this? You said that we're in the trenches together is more powerful, it's harder to break, and it's just a better overall relationship is kind of what you were hinting at. Divorce rates for people who have made a dollar together in a business that they started, um, is 10%. So, it's significantly lower. And I think maybe that's because there's like, in order to even get to that first dollar together with somebody, like there's a lot of other things that have to be aligned. And then you also have this post-commitment kind of bias where you both want to keep this thing alive and you're both working together towards like a shared mission or goal. And so, I think there's just a lot of alignment that happens there. And there's also a lot of, um, context. And so, one of the things that I think happens in many relationships is that people get exposed to different stimuli and then they adapt to those stimuli and then they grow apart just because of the nature of just stimulus-response, right? And so, if you're both in the same business together, you're being exposed to the same stressors and then you you can grow together in the same direction. And I think, at least for us, that's been our experience rather than having to like, we just have a shared mission and so we're on it together. I think it's, um, something we were talking about the other day is, you know, we were talking to a guy and he was talking about wanting an open relationship. And I come from the era of like, I'm not the kind of woman who's like, "Oh, my husband should never look at a la- He never looks at another woman." I assume that Alex looks at other women cuz he's a man. Like, that is what men do. And that's like how we're wired. Like, we're humans, right? That's a human thing. And I think what I subscribe to is that if you want a relationship to last, then you have to create more reasons to stay with the person than to not because there's always reasons not to be with somebody. Freedom, autonomy, you want to go bang other people, whatever it is, right? It's like, we have all these human instinctual things that are pulling us in one direction. Can you create more reasons within your relationship to stay with that person? So, if you work together, if you're on the same mission together, if you have the same values, if you both like fitness and nutri- and like all these things, those are all the arguments as to why you want to be with that person. And I think what happens a lot of relationships, they just don't have much of an argument. It's like, "Cool, we like [ __ ] each other and that's it." Like, I can go [ __ ] 10 other people. And then there's nothing else in common. They're not on the same mission. They have nothing else to argue. So, when things are hard, your mind is going to go, "Why am I with this person?" It's like, I have a million reasons why I'm with Alex. If we ever have a hard day, it's like it that the thought of exiting doesn't even cross my mind because there's so much overwhelming evidence as to why it makes sense to stay. Don't you think it complicates things to also be in business? That maybe now financially you you have an incentive to stay together. I think it absolutely complicates things in terms of like there are more there are more layers to the relationship, but I also think that to the same degree they can compound and become even you become even you have more potential for disruption, but also more more potential for alignment. I'll say this, which is like me and Alex when we were dating, we broke up for 6 weeks. Mhm. Um and we we talked about in the very beginning of our relationship. Like if we're going to get into business together and do this together, then we need to know what it would look like if we weren't together. And so when we broke up, we both uphold our end of the bargain. Like we were great partners to each other without being in a relationship. And so like I look at it like this, which is like if you have to worry about the exit, then you shouldn't be with the person. I don't worry about that with Alex. And I I even we talked about this the other day. I was like, it would we would just do that again. You know what I mean? Like it would be amicable. And so I think if you have to worry about what it would look like, like, oh, we're going to fight over money and do this stuff. It's like, then don't be with the person. It's interesting because I think that like the single great the the single most important decision that you make of all decisions in life is who you spend your life with like as your significant other. And if you look at all the stats in terms of amount of time spent with people, like time spent with family basically drops off at 25. Like it's very very low after that. Time spent with siblings, same thing. Time spent with spent with friends starts dropping off at like 30 pretty aggressively. Um and then the two that increase a lot for the majority of your life are time spent with spouse is number one. And then in the between those is time spent with co-workers. Mhm. So your co-workers matter way more than your friends do in terms of hours per day. So like where you work is actually incredibly important for your over well like your subjective well-being. But like there's one person that you're going to spend the rest of your life with if you believe in marriage. And like the strength of the relationship you have with your significant other has a 0.71 correlation to your overall subject well-being. So, more than anything, how well you get along with the person you spend all your time with, which makes sense. You spend the majority of your time with this person. And so, I think that if there's ever something to be obsessive over, it would be that. You saw that chart on Twitter, huh? Which? The chart that X and Y and then you have it was just a bunch of line graphs. Who Who posted that? Zeal Bloom. I believe that there are mainly three pillars to a successful relationship such as shared values, Cool. shared interests, and just raw chemistry. Okay. I think those are the three things as long as you can check those three boxes, everything else obviously it matters to some extent, but those are the main three boxes you need to check to make sure your partner is a viable one. I'd swap with one of I'd swap one of them out. Which one? So, chemistry I'd swap cuz that's going to disappear in terms of like literally your chemical soup in your brain goes back to normal after 2 years. So, like that that feeling goes away. And so, what I would swap with that is something long-term, which is mission. Which is do you want to do the same thing on Earth? Just like shared mission. Values is how you get So, do you want to go to the same place? Values is how you get there, and interest is the stuff you do along the way. Tony Robbins talks about it a lot, but you can create chemistry. Yeah. In fact, we've talked about it a ton because we have to manage our chemistry because of how much we work together. Yeah. How do you do that? Space. How do you create space? So many ways. go on like independent vacations? Well, I think No. Something like that. there's a couple every every I think there's a couple different Canada, I'm going to Mexico, we'll meet back in the US. No, I mean I think some of it's physical space, which is like, you know, we technically work together all day, right? But we don't. We stay in separate areas of the house. We work on different things. Like we're very segmented in terms of our responsibility set in terms of what we do in the business and outside. And then on the other side of that, it's being able to switch hats. Mhm. Which is there's Alex and Leila that work together and you see in the public eye and then there's Alex and Leila that are themselves in their condo when nobody's there, husband and wife. And so it's being able to switch between those two dynamics because if you constantly keep on the work hat, then like there's no chemistry. You know what I mean? Because what happens is you're not It's the side of you that provokes chemistry in the person like for a woman, right? For me it's like am I being feminine? I'm playful and funny and you know, light-hearted. Well, it's like at work I'm not going to be those things because it's more of like a masculine energy at work where you're like driving things forward, making decisions, like very decisive, outspoken. So for me it's been learning how to swap the hats and I think we've both worked on that a lot over the years. Um so now it feels easy. I mean now it feels like the moment people leave like we talk in a different voice, like our manners I do a little bit, yeah. Like a little playful, yeah. You know, Alex has done it, you know, I'm sure. No, I think I think the thing that's improved is that we've got our our speed to be able to change gears has improved. So what used to maybe take like an hour or two hours to wind down, like to switch gears is now like we can do it in almost an instant. Um and so that's that's been like being able to shift energy is really like the the the crux of it. Like you can feel like right now you have business Alex and Leila. Like this is like we can talk objectively about the marriage, but this isn't like our relationship dynamic. You know what I mean? This is our work dynamic cuz this is work, you know what I mean? For us, you know what I mean? But when we are when we're you know, at home alone like we're we're pretty playful, you know what I mean? Like we we tell a lot of jokes. We like we'll we'll we'll [ __ ] with each other a lot. Like there's a lot of practical like just like We're really funny. Yeah, just a lot of goofy. Like we just yeah, we're pretty goofy and we're it's incredibly light-hearted, which is a strong just just opposed against probably what most people see, which is just like hard charging, incredibly stoic-ish. Work hard, play hard. Business. Yeah. But what if something is going on with the business between you two? Maybe a disagreement that you have on that. How does that not bleed over and affect that part? We've had disagreements and we've walked out the door and looked at each other and just said, "I love you." Yeah. And then we just move on to like we're not in this disagreement currently. And and being in a dis- and like again, this like I think we're very fortunate with this because so as a reminder to the audience, like we pretty much started doing business together day one. And so like we've only had a business dynamic. If anything, we had to work harder on the relationships or the romantic side than the business side. So like business came natural to us. Like it was like a first language for us and then we learned the romance side, which is why she was saying like you can create chemistry. Like you can do it. Like you just do the things and like the chemistry's there. With disagreements, we the they're short-lived. And a lot of times like I think we're pretty good at compartmentalizing it. Like if we disagree about something, we know that we are aligned with the same mission, we know we're aligned with the same values. And so the only thing that we will disagree about is like the best way to get there. And a lot of times I think both of us are like "Is this a hill you're going to die on?" And neither of us really die on many hills. And so it's And if we do, it's really important. probably. Yeah. And one of the rules that we had, which is one of the most important rules we had in the very beginning of our relationship was we had this like goo- or gru- guru or whatever like talked to us and he was like I don't know what that was. Yeah, I don't know what that was. But like the advice was good. And he said, "If you don't agree on something, don't move forward." And for whatever reason, it struck us in the moment and we have stuck to that, which is like and usually it's like Alex wants to do something and Layla's like, "I'm not sure." And because of the positive reinforcement that I've had earlier on in our relationship from like most times where I was like, "I'm going to do this thing." She was like, "I don't think that's a good idea." And I did it anyways, most times those things blew up. And so she has a very good track record for that. And so now we have like a very like we like to joke that like if I weren't here we wouldn't have a business, but if Leila were not here I would have a hundred and also not have a business. And so it's like it's the it's the drawbridge. It's the tension between these two extremes, which is where I think the magic happens for us. I get this question sometimes where like well, somebody's got to have veto, right? Right? So if you're if you're at a standstill we just don't like I don't think that's real. Like if you're in a business and you disagree, you keep talking about it until you agree. Like it just you keep beating the idea and thinking about upsides and downsides and risk etc. exposure and then you're like I see where you're coming from. Let's emphasize that you know, like you just keep solving for it and I think being open and not taking it personally especially when in the business setting because we both know because we've done this enough times that like we both just want to win. And so it's just like how we both have a hundred percent alignment. So it's just like we don't take it personal. How do you keep the emotions out of it? I think that we are able to admit when we are emotional. yeah. Exactly. So if I'm if we're in a some kind of disagreement I'll be like, "Listen, I'm just too stressed with this. Like I need to go on a walk or something and then let's talk about it later." Or if Alex, he might be like, "I'm too angry. Like let's I'm going to go do something and we'll talk about it later." So I think we usually are pretty self-aware of like if we're in an emotional state and if we are, we try to wait until we're not to then come back and talk about it then. I think that's a I think it's a really big point is that like we don't we actively avoid discussion when there's emotional charge. It's just not productive, you know what I mean? Yeah. And even sometimes like I mean I as a woman it's like I have to catch myself and be like, "Oh, I'm acting crazy right now. I'm going to go." And he's like and I'm like, "Yeah, I'm going to go cuz I'm acting like crazy bitch." And like I can now catch myself within like two minutes. Like we'll be in a conversation and it's like if I can feel that I'm just being emotional like, "Oh, so sorry. Crazy. Going. Leaving now. Exiting myself from the room." How do you take a step back? Do you just go in a different room? Do you go do a workout? How do you do that? Really interesting. So, one of the things that we found, this is just worked well for us, is that via text, like text communication, we are really good. And so, like it kind of removes it gives you it gives you a little bit more time to say what you're going to say. You know what I mean? There's also a record of it. You know what I mean? And so, if we're honestly, it's like it's been something that we've done a lot, which is like if we're in a disagreement, we'll like type it out. And typing it out it gives you it literally gives you delay between when you feel something and when something gets delivered. And you get to see it before like you don't have the slips of the tongue cuz you see the words and you're like committing to them when you send them. And that's been honestly one of the at least from a tactical perspective, one of the most valuable things that we've done to like diffuse situations. I think it works if you're logical, which we are. We both want to discuss things in a reasonable, logical manner. I think if you're really just emotional, you're just going to find a reason as to why texting doesn't work because you can't because emotion doesn't have a good argument, right? So, when you type it out, it doesn't make any sense. We've also learned how to how to disagree with each other more productively and how to manage each other when we're in emotional state. So, like if Alex is angry, like back is say 6 years ago, I probably made him more angry when I was trying to help him not be angry. Now, I feel like I understand what diffuses Alex. She's really good at diffusing. What diffuses it? Let's freeze. Just being really nice. Honestly, a lot of times it's like I turn into like a cute little ball of fun. So, She does roman- She basically turns on her like her relationship hat. And then like it I I It's like you can't hit a puppy. You know what I mean? Like you can, but like but like it's a lot harder. And so, if I'm like in this very like aggressive, you know what I mean? Like zone, and she's just being like really cute and kind of vulnerable, I like it it it I diffuse really quickly. He can't help but laugh. You know what I mean? Or smile or something. wry smile and I'll be like, "All right, you know what I mean? Heard." You know what I mean? And then that like we kind of go from there. And like for Layla a lot of times like she just like she just needs like a long hug and being like, it's okay. You know what I mean? Like it's totally cool. He gets angry, I get stressed. like she gets stressed, I get angry. And so for me it's like, it's okay. Like you can feel this way and it's totally fine and normal. Yeah. When was the decision to get married? 11 months after dating after our first date. Yeah, 11 months in. Yeah. It was uh six days later. Well, we had talked about it like a couple times up until then, I think. It's more just like we were like we like looked up one day and I think people in the business were asking us they were like, are you guys going to get married? And I was like, I don't know. I'm so young, you know. She's 23. And then we started talking about it. We're like, interesting, they're all asking us if we're getting married. And we're like, do they feel like it's not stable? Well, that was actually a big point. They were like, job security-wise like we feel weird, you know, committing to this and you guys aren't even committed to each other. You know what I mean? Like what happens if you guys break up? And both of us were like, we just keep doing the same thing. Like we keep running this business Nobody believes you though. Yeah, no one believes you but like as a side note for the dudes who are like considering getting a girl into their into their business like you have to have objectively been willing to pick that girl of all people to do that role. What I think happens more often is guys are like, man, I want to involve my wife in the business who doesn't really like business and then they pull them in, they don't give them the respect cuz maybe that's not warranted cuz they don't have the acumen for it or whatever and then they give them kind of a peon role which that doesn't necessarily breed even more respect um so that they can be like quote involved. I think like the role has to be the role that you would pick for that person even if you had no dog in the fight. Like if you didn't have the relationship. Like if we weren't together, I would still want Layla basically running all the companies cuz she's great at it. It's why we do well. It's 100% merit. Yeah, it's 100% merit. And so it like we just get the benefit of the fact that like we're also married. But like skills first like the the position has to be earned. So, do you think the marriage was in a way to satisfy business partners? Yeah. And so it was the it was the employees and then so I so I came back or go ahead. Yeah, I mean I I Yeah, I think it was a a mix of thing. I mean I think it I wouldn't say the employees are the reason that we got married. I think it was so many we got married. I think it was just like it just felt like it made a lot of sense. I mean honestly that's like what we came to was just like this makes a ton of sense. Like we're running a business together, we're romantically involved, we're building the same thing together. It looks like it's like blowing up. We're like it just makes more sense to get married than it doesn't. have a contract prior to then in terms of what would happen if you guys split? Like who owns what and who gets what or no? Well, I mean we didn't have much but but Alex did. growing at that point, right? growing but I think at that point did we both have 50/50? I can't remember. Technically the business was all mine at that point. Yeah, the business was yours at that point. Yeah. I just didn't even You know, it's so weird cuz like I never even thought about that because like literally what I detest is women who take things from men. Like when I No, I won't tell that but seeing that women are willing to take something from a man rather than start over and like get your like it was just never even in my mind like a possibility. You know what I mean? Like I was like I would rather jump off a cliff than take money from somebody. So, I actually asked Leila to sign a pre-nup cuz I think I had like 250 grand or something squirreled away. Um, and she was like sure, whatever. And the fact that she was just like so effortlessly a yes and I had actually asked a former relationship to sign a pre-nup and it was like a big deal. And very painful and horrible and whatever. The fact that she was just like sure, no problem. When we were on the way to like get it notarized or whatever, I actually just tore it up and threw it out the window. I was like, we're good. You know what I mean? Like you risked everything at every single point. You like you chose me and wanted to do this thing together. Like let's do it. You know what I mean? And so I um yeah, when I my proposal, I didn't have a ring. I just was like I think the actual question was I think it would make sense if we got married. What do you think? And then Here are flowers. Sounds like a very Alex And so yeah, I handed her flowers and then I delivered that. How much forethought did you give the wedding? Or the Or the the proposal in general? Was Was like from start to finish was it like a week, a month? I got flowers. I mean, it's funny because like I I say what I said earlier like it is the most important decision, but like the So this is countercultural. Is that if you look at like the rom-coms, right? That are out there. There's usually like Mr. Right and then like the old flame from home, right? And then they have to like break up with Mr. Right to be with the old flame. But the reason they don't have like sequels for rom-coms is because then you'd have two people who are married and have no reason to be together. And so it would be a very boring movie that would just be like a miserable marriage. And so I actually think that Mr. Right, the one that makes sense on paper that you have all the logical reasons to be together, is the person that Hollywood should be getting people to get married to because when the chemistry fades, you need to have rational reasons to be with that person. Because like when bad days come and they will, you need to still be like this makes sense, right? It still makes sense. When it doesn't make sense and you don't have the feeling, it's tough. Right? And so um I remember I was listing it out cuz when we were like in this one marriage discussion, I was just like I mean you have the cultural background, which is just a bonus. Like I never looked for like a Persian girl, but like the fact that she was was great. Um so she understood the kind of cultural background of my whole family and whatnot. She loved business, which was awesome. And she loved fitness and like being active and eating healthy and working out. And like that was pretty much the only three things that like were interesting or you know, and she was kind, right? And like trustworthy and she had character. And so I was like I don't I didn't see a world where there was a high likelihood that I would find somebody else that had all those things and had already sacrificed all these things to be you know to do this thing and it showed efficacy at being good at it. I was like I just feel like it makes sense if we get married and she was she was like yeah. And so she said yes and then we literally I was like all right I guess we need to get you a ring so we got in the car, drove to the jewelry store, bought a ring we both like the same one so she got that, drove back, called the pastor and I was like when are you free? And he was like this Wednesday. He's like are you sure this is fast? And we were like yeah we're good. And so the whole week leading up it was 6 days from then until we got married and she was like who's going to chicken out? And what's crazy is that I'd backed out of a wedding which is really hard by the way. Super hard yeah expectations on both sides like invites all this stuff. Um but I thought I was going to like I thought that I had commitment issues but I it was just that in my gut I knew it wasn't the right person. And I think that was the like that's why I had commitment issues. It's like it's just a lot of people haven't found the right person. Like if you like if you're like not if you don't know you know kind of thing. And so it just made sense to do it and so then we got married in the back of a church on a Wednesday night with no family nothing. There was like some local friends who showed up like five six people and that was it. And to someone that's been dating someone else for let's say a year two maybe three years. How do they know to make that final like you know to tie the ribbon to make sure okay you are going to be my spouse. How do what is the deciding factor in that to someone who's been dating someone for a while? I mean I think I don't think that there is a deciding factor in the in this context of I don't think everyone has to get married. You know what I mean? Like I think we want to to get married and like we both see ourselves like being with somebody like we would like to have this marriage for the rest of our lives. Like that's something that we've communicated to each other but I think a lot of people don't want that. And so I think a lot of people should take one step back and think like do I even want marriage? And if so what's the purpose? Because I think that it's going to become less and less popular in my opinion. And there's a lot of people it doesn't really make sense for. Like it really doesn't have a lot of benefits. Um particularly like you look at like the decline on birth rates and stuff. Like if you're not going to have kids, like if you don't have kids, you don't share business together, you don't share a lot of your lives together, like I don't really understand why someone would get married. In the very beginning of our marriage, we did a lot of uh we went through like courses and workshops on uh divorced and at-risk marriages. So, we started going through all these workshops of people who are like trying to figure out their marriage. And we learned a ton of stuff about like how to communicate and like expectation setting and just a lot of really interesting things. And um I think it served us well. So, like highly recommend going through like divorce and like crisis marriage counseling type stuff cuz What did you learn from that? I think one fundamental thing that has to be learned in order to have a productive relationship with somebody of the opposite sex is like how men and women are different, like how our brains work differently, how we think differently, how we receive love and affection differently or respect. Um and I think that that teaches you how you can't treat your partner like you want to be treated. Yeah. You have to learn to treat your partner like they want to be treated. And I think that that's fundamentally hard to learn when you're not of the same sex. So, it's like you have to learn like how does a guy want to be treated? How does a guy receive love? How does a woman want to be treated? How does a woman receive love? And I think that was a huge piece of it along with understanding like the kind of protection mechanisms that we had each built up along the way that had created walls between us. And I think that those walls took a couple of years to probably come down, maybe two or three. Because like I know for myself, like over the years, like you build up walls that keep you from getting hurt, but they also keep you from getting super close to somebody. And I think everybody has those. It's completely normal. And you shouldn't wait to find someone to, you know, until those walls are down. I think it's you learn how to take them down with your partner. Yeah. And so, it's like you become aware of them yourself, and then you explore that with your partner. You talk about it openly and then you talk about how you're going to work on it. And I think that being able to communicate those few things with each other was huge for us. Like I used to be very cold and I wouldn't tell Alex anything that was on my mind. I mean, I was extremely closed off and that was really tough for me and for him. And for me, one of the things that I had to work on the most was learning how to just communicate what I was actually thinking and not be so terrified that he would judge me or, you know, leave or mad at me or anything because just for some reason I just never I always was like used to doing things on my own and so feeling like I could even tell somebody else how I was feeling about anything was like so incredibly overwhelming for me. And now it's normal and I can, you know, if anything it's like maybe 5 minutes of me not telling him, but it used to be days. Yeah. What do you think you had to work on? It's great, you know, it's I have nothing. I think I think my temper has gotten a lot better. Um that's that's a big one. Um my temper's gotten a lot better. Um Because I think what it was is like your if Alex would get angry then Layla would recoil. Yeah, it was like And then it was not a productive relationship so you worked a ton on understanding like anger didn't work with me at all. Very true. Like I would just get more aggressive and then she like she would just shut down. And so I just had to like I just had to create more space and learn how to like Okay. Re- like this is what we want to do. These are the values that like that's why it's like the mission values interests is so at least for us is so important is like if we're aligned on these things then it means that all we have for the most nine times out of 10 it's a miscommunication. Like nine times out of 10 it just means like I took something that you said the way that you probably didn't intend it. So let's just break down what you said and how I took it. And then she's like, I didn't mean that to disrespect you. I was like, well, here's when you say this I'm like, this is what I hear. She's like, I did not mean that. And so like I think over time like you just know that there are trigger sentences or whatever that I'm like, I could probably work on this, but it'd be a hell of a lot easier if you just don't say that. And I will also concurrently try to work on it if it slips out. I think we have so much ability to influence our partners and we have to be careful with that. You know what I mean? Because it's like I only want to encourage Alex. And I'm sure Alex only wants to encourage me, but we can say things and not know that we're discouraging the other person. Inspire behaviors and our actions. And is it our full responsibility? No. But it was definitely helpful if you know how to positively affect that person rather than negatively. And I think a lot of people in relationships actually negatively impact their partners more than they positively do. And that's why people break up because if they look at that area of their life and many other areas, they're negatively impacted once they get with that person. You know, it's like they look at the time they got in the relationship, it's like health, wealth, all these friends, everything. It's like it all goes down. Versus you know, for us, it all went up. I had a I had a mentor. So you asked the question way earlier about like how do you know if it's like the right person? I don't think there's like a one fits all, but I asked this to a coach that I had at the time who was kind of like basically helping me deal with like the anxiety that I was going through when all that stuff was happening. And he was like, just look at your stats. That's what he told me. He's like, just look at your stats. He's like, how how are you fitness-wise? I was like, is it up or down being with her? I was like, well, she goes to the gym all the time. She like does all the meal prep. Like it's up. I'm definitely like better cuz she's there. He's like, all right. What about the business stuff? I was like, well, I was like, well, she makes me money. And he was like, has any other girl made you money? I was like, no. And he's like, well, that's a plus, right? And I was like, okay. And so, you know, we just went down the line of like what are the things that matter most to me and like are they pluses or minuses? And all of them were up. My stats were up since I've been with Layla. I never like really thought through that and I was like, oh, like this logically like I'm better for being with her. And so it was also like, how's your head space? Are you more You know what I mean? Or like, are you Do you feel like you're becoming a better version of you or worse version of you? Um cuz like there's some people who have partnerships, like I that's how we see it, like spouse partnerships that like all they do is emphasize the worst character traits of you. It's like if your, you know, partner is always like, like no, let's let's stay in or let's let's drink or let's, you know, not to say that these things are bad in in small doses, but it like if everything you have is always like decreasing all your stats to be with this person, like long-term for people who are growth-oriented, which not that many people are, but for people who are growth-oriented, I think having somebody who holds you to a higher standard, like I know that Leila has extremely high expectations of me, and I have very high expectations of her, and we just always want to exceed one another's expectations as the bar continues to rise, because like as you get better, so too do your alternatives. Right? Like other people who you attract are better quality. And so we both want to be in like you think about this way, a voluntary relationship. Like of all the people, I still want to be with you. And that, like cuz what happens a lot of people one person grows and the other person doesn't, and like it's just like if one person's growing, they both have to grow. Yeah. I don't think it's going to work long-term. You know what I think the biggest thing is, it's like the biggest gift that we've given ourselves our relationship, we do not compare to anybody else's. Like like to a degree that I've never even had the thought about somebody else's relationship and how it contrasts to mine. Because I think it's just like each relationship is its own unique, it's like an unique organism. Like it shouldn't be compared to anything else. They're dynamics. Yeah. And so I think we're two unique people, therefore we have a unique relationship, therefore why would I compare it to anybody else's? I think that's where most of like the angst and the resentment in so many relationships come from is you're comparing to somebody else's, which they're two completely different unique people. In different circumstances. With different life goals, different mission, different values, different interests. So it's like, why would I ascribe their preferences to my reality? How developed do you think your own character and value system and and personality need to be developed before you're ready to date and marry someone or do you think that you go in kind of you know a scribbles on a blank you know slate or whatever and then you get into this relationship and then the other person builds your values and character and stuff like that. I think you got to be good being alone. You think you need to be already kind of understanding yourself. Mhm. Like if you if you're the person who always has to have somebody there to like feel complete. What you want in my opinion is two whole people that together like the sum of two wholes is significantly greater not two halves making one whole. I think it's like I want at least this is Alex's viewpoint of the world. Yeah. Well, I think we choose what we are dependent on each other for right? Like there there's a lot of stuff I depend on Alex for and there's a lot of stuff he depends on me for but it's chosen. We could do it on our own if we didn't have each other. You know what I mean? Versus there's some people it's not chosen it's like necessary and I think that's when you have issues. That makes sense. It makes it seem much more voluntary than just like feeling compelled to join a relationship because of something you need from the other person. 100%. It's like I mean this is a voluntary you know these are voluntary relationships like and we want to set ourselves up for success which is like don't need anything. Yeah, can you imagine something more beautiful than two people who don't need one another who just choose to be with each other because they prefer life together? Like that in my mind is like and if you continue to prefer living life together then you don't need any outside anything. But wouldn't you say that also takes a lot of dating experience to know what to look for and what you like and what you don't like? I think dating experience or education you know what I mean? I think like for me like I read Tony Robbins was it Unleash the Power Within? Yeah. And they had the whole thing where you write down Yeah. Awaken the giant. even know what that which one it was right? But it was like write down everything non-negotiables of what you would break up with someone for and then the characteristics you're looking this whole thing and I had this whole exercise and like I didn't know I didn't have a ton of experience like in in-depth I mean, you know, I had good significant relationships like whatever you're young, right? I'm like 20 something. Um but I had read that book and I was like, I trust that this person knows what he's talking about. He has seen enough relationships. If I do this formula, I feel like it will pan out. And when we were talking about getting married, I was like, listen, this I remember thinking I was like Tony Robbins said that if you do X, Y, and Z, you know, you you pick like this, which we did, and then you go like this and like you can work on pretty much everything else as long as you get the fundamentals right. Like basically get the fundamentals right of like matching your expectations and non-negotiables of what you're looking for in a spouse and then everything else you can create. One of the things that I think has been really important for Layla and I at least. So Warren Buffett was in front of a crowd of college kids and they and he said, so who here, you know, I get asked all the time what if you could only have one character trait that you'd look for in a spouse, what would you look for? Right? And people are like, brains and beauty or character, loyalty, right? And he's like, you don't want any of that stuff. He's like, you know what you want? Low expectations. He's like, that's how you create a marriage that lasts. And like he was being incredibly serious but also tongue-in-cheek at the same time, but I think part of that process, at least how we approached it, was that we were probably the least Hollywood version of a relationship. You know what I mean? Like we un-Hollywood everything. It was very much like, does this make sense? Right? And I think because of that approach, big picture, neither of us came in expecting the other person to save us. You know what I mean? Like I don't need you to make me happy. And I think that's where the whole person comes in. Like if you're if you're like, I'm happy doing what I'm doing, like I I don't need you, I prefer it, but like I can continue to live my life and the other person can too, then the expectations are significantly lower from the other person, which is why like this is again me talking for me, like the fact that Layla never tried to change me and still hasn't throughout our whole relationship, I think is one of the biggest reasons why like we've been good cuz like I resist anyone who tries to change me very hard. Like her point earlier about like no rules, like I hate rules. Like tell me I can't do something, like there's like there's nothing that drives me more mad than something like that. And so because just make come like what if circumstances change? What do you know what I mean? Like I hate it. And so low expectations and leading from values has been how we've just used as our compass pointing true north of mission and then like we accept the waxes and wanes that occurred during the natural shifts of time. How did you meet your wife? All right, you guys are asking like the greatest hits. I love these questions. Okay, so my wife and I are a Me Too story, so get ready for your channel to be canceled. I was teaching, my wife was my student and What were you teaching? school for adults. I want to be very clear about that. I was teaching film making and she was 21 at the time and she saw me at my best and it was amazing and we hit it off right away and when I met her I had recently learned how to be good with women because I was terrible up until that point. And truly how did you learn? Oh, it's really simple. You must be willing to walk away and you must be worthy. I don't know your audience well enough. I'm going to give you the truth. You can edit it out if you want. Say the truth. We'll leave it in. Here here is the the reality. Think about just hold it in your mind for a second what sex really is. Okay, the the messy reality of what sex is. You have to go from hi, my name is to that. Mhm. To do that, you must be worthy of that. Now you might be able to trick them into doing it once, but I've gotten my wife to do that for 22 years. You have to be worthy. So one, you have to be worthy. Two, you have to have confidence meaning you recognize your worth and because you recognize your worth, you're going to act completely as you are who you are cuz it does not make sense to get somebody into that's not going to work. So, you broadcast who you are and be willing to walk away. So, if you are worthy of someone inviting you into their body and that that is an amazing, incredible moment that you guys can share and it's your real partners in that act cuz I'm very much not a like don't get with somebody that you can dominate and push around. Get with somebody who is your equal. We can go into that as much as you want. I have very strong feelings. But, you want to do that and you need to understand that you have that worth, that you've done the work, that you're good at something that matters, and then that you don't need that person. And that even if you feel like you need that person and they're the only one for you and all that, the second you act like that, they will become elusive, you'll never get them. And you can't tolerate the friend zone or anything like that. Like, I'll give you an example. I never had to say this to my wife, but if I had thought I was sliding into the friend zone, I would just say like, "Hey, if I'm not what you're looking for, totally respect that. You are lovely and I wish you the best in everything. I'm not interested in the friend zone. All the best to you and, you know, if I can be a reference or whatever, let me know. Uh but, this is where we part ways." And at that point, and I am very good at this, I would flip a switch in my mind and I would never think about that person again. You just you How long did it take you to to develop that sort of mindset, though? 23 years. Really? And what was there an event or an inflection point where you're like, "Oh, got it." If you want to get good at something, find somebody who's already good at that. Go to them and ask them, "What do you do?" Beg for the absolute truth and then when they tell you, believe them. I went to George Leonardopolis. George got laid left, right, and center. And I said, "George, Is he Greek? He is Greek. Is he like a famous guy or something? Not at all. No, he's just Greek, man. And He's just a Greek guy. Well, so that news as George was very charismatic and very good looking. And did he have an accent though? He did not. Grew up in America so he didn't have that going for him. But very charming. And I said George, what's the secret? Because I am terrible with women. And he said, "Oh, you just have to be a dick to them." And I wanted to bang my head on the table and I was like one I know him and he isn't a dick. So he's saying something and it's so cliche. So finally I was like, I'm not going to reject this because the guy I know that is the way that I want to be with women is telling me that that's the secret. He's telling me in sincerity. He's wrong, but he's telling me sincerely. So what does he actually mean? And then I realized, oh, he's always himself and he's willing to walk away. And I was like, that's so interesting. And so he isn't like, "Oh, what do you want? What do you like?" Which then just puts you in this like you're there to to placate them. Yeah, like you It just makes you Okay, I'm just going to say the real words. You you in my estimation if you want to be good with the typical female, you need to be self-assured confident, strong um very good at something that they care about and you need to embody all of that. And then you need to be wildly interested in who they are, make them feel better about themselves when they're around you than when they're not. And them feel like, "Whoa, this person really lifts me up, but they're honest and they tell me the truth and they don't ever pull punches. And if they say something that I don't like, I'm going to let them know that I don't like that." Very calmly, but just, "Hey, I like this. I don't like that." And I was shocked at how intoxicating the woman who is now my wife and she will be the first to tell you that it didn't work only on her. I had had a chance to test this out before meeting her and realized and it was night and day. Could not get laid, flip a switch, very successful with women and was I was laughing. I was like, I can't believe this is true. And then flashing back on my life, there was this girl that I really liked in high school and she used to always say, "When we're not dating, you're super cool and the second we're dating you're not yourself." And I could couldn't understand what she meant. And so then I played it back and I was like, "Oh my god, it's because I had fear of loss." And so when we weren't dating, I didn't fear of loss cuz we weren't together. So I was just who I am. That would get her attracted, we would date and then because I liked her so much, I had fear of loss. So I started trying to act the way I thought she wanted me to act. Then I'm not interesting. There's no sort of power in that. There's just someone supplicating themselves to you. She's not interesting. That's interesting. So by flipping that switch, everything in my life changed. Now, I've only told one woman that I loved her. I've been in a committed relationship for 22 years. Like, so if anybody thinks they hear me saying I'm a Lothario or a playboy, that's not my life at all. But I am telling you that it is a game of psychology and if you don't play it well, you will lose. And so all the guys out there right now that are losing, it is 100% their fault. It is not society, it is nothing other than you do not understand the psychology of the person that you're sitting across from, that you're trying to effectively sell yourself to. Mhm. And because I took the time to actually figure out what that is, the complexities. Cuz right now you hear red pill be dominant, they're your property. Oh, [ __ ] they're really terrible advice. Find a partner. Find somebody who can challenge you, but be yourself. Challenge them. Be worthy. Be good. Push yourself every day. Be aggressive. Be um hardcore. Try to take up as much space as you can. Try to mansplain anything that you're passionate about. Like, don't be hesitant at all. And then shut up and make sure that you're giving them that space and you're drawing that out of them and you show how much you respect them and how interested you are in them. And find somebody you actually care about so that this isn't a game. And then, just be open and honest and it's incredible. My wife is my equal in every conceivable way on balance. But there are things that I'm way better than her at and in those moments I lead. And there are things that she's way better than me at and in those moments I follow. And because I can do both of those, but I'm not at all afraid to take the lead, then you get an interesting dynamic. How has your dynamic changed over 20 years? Ooh, brother. So, when she became an entrepreneur, that was the rockiest period in our life because she had been a stay-at-home wife for 8 years. So, I had somebody that cooked for me, cleaned for me, took care of our puppies, laid my clothes out, literally. My clothes would be laying at the end of the bed. Uh so, my gym clothes would be set out, my work clothes would be set out. I did not have to think of anything. She sorted it all. All of our personal things, flights, trips, family, my mom was going to get a birthday gift. All it's just all sorted out. I didn't have to think about anything. And then, she started thinking, "Hey, maybe I actually like this entrepreneur thing." And then it was like, you know, she was stepping into a far more aggressive personality type, like really starting to feel her own and getting involved in areas of business that had been sort of my domain and the space that made me feel cool. And that was a hard thing to navigate. And so, what I told her was, "You have to give me the opportunity to mourn." And so, because the relationship I thought we were going to have, where you were going to be my wife, we're going to have kids, you were going to stay at home, take care of the kids, that's gone. I don't get that anymore. And that was the the thing that we got married based around. So, let me mourn that. But I want you to be whoever you want to be. And it would violate my value system if I respond to you in any way other than I want to help you become the best version of yourself the way that you define it. And so, we've got all kinds of standard operating procedures, rules of engagement that it would take me a long time, but I'm happy to answer anything on that about how we ended up making that work. How we did a transition period where she slowly over like a week or 2 weeks weaned me off of, "Okay, I'm setting out some of your clothes, not all of them. I'm making some of your meals, but not all of them." Down to, "Okay, now you're self-sufficient. We divide, you know, the different work that has to be done." All that stuff. Um and m- it's absolutely incredible. But, you then, if you're doing things that are overlapping, you have to be very thoughtful about who has more expertise in one area over the other. Should always listen to each other. You should want disconfirming evidence. But, if you can't agree on something, you have to have a rule of engagement around what are you going to do when you can't agree. So, for instance, I am the right person between the two of us to be the CEO. She will be the first to admit it. So, when we founded the company, I, in my act of making sure that she feels what she needs to feel, which is that I believe she is my equal and she is my partner and she is my priority, the lawyer said, "Look, you need to split the company 51% 49%. We don't care who has 51% and who has 49, but to avoid a legal nightmare, you must do that." And Lisa was like, "Tom will take 51%." And I was like, "Over my dead body. We are 50/50 equal partners. Make the ultimate divorce nightmare. I have failed if I don't have enough influence over her that I can navigate this process." And I'm so confident that I want what's good for her and will sacrifice half of my [ __ ] to make sure that her life is good, why would I ever do that? I also know who she is. Barring head trauma, she's never going to ask for more than half of the business. I'm just utterly convinced of that. And so, make that the nightmare. But, wife of mine, let's be very clear. If we ever collide on an idea and you can't convince me and I can't convince you, which we will both try very, very hard and we will respect each other and really listen and really talk, but if after all of that, we can't agree, we will go with my idea every single time. Are you okay with that? Yes. Cool. Then we can march forward. Now, if in that moment I had been like, "Uh well, I think how do you feel?" Like that's never going to work because the reality is I'm not willing to do this if that isn't true because I am the right person to make those decisions. So, you have to have the clarity of knowing when you're the right person. You have to have the historical track record of Oh, I follow you. Whenever you're the right person, I back off. You know that in your bones. You know that I listen. You know that I I'm not saying this from ego. I'm saying this from we recognize what each other's skill sets are and that happens to be mine. So, anyway, getting to that high-level communication, that's what people have to be able to do and every day pushing yourself to be a better version of yourself, like that [ __ ] is hard, but if you do that for 30, 40 years, you can be in real beast mode. But growing together is the hard part cuz things are going to change and if you can't navigate those moments well, you're in trouble. You didn't ask this, but I have one more. This is on my mind recently. I'm so into this. Keep going. So, there's one more thing that people really have to be thoughtful about. There is a reason that so many marriages break up around the 25-year mark. I always thought it was because they had kids and that's when kids leave the house. Now, I'm sure that can be a big thing that breaks up marriages, for sure, but my wife and I don't have kids and we have found our marriage isn't in danger, but we found this new thing that we're colliding over that I'm like, "Oh my god, I see how this plays out in a couple that doesn't have the tools that we have." What ends up happening is over time, so you should marry somebody that has a different world view than you. You don't want somebody that thinks the same as you. You want someone with the same values. You do not want somebody that thinks the same. So, my wife and I come at things very differently. I see how things could work. She sees how things will break. That has made us a an incredible pair. So, we each have these world views and over time life kicks you in the face, you learn a lesson, and your world view refines and it gets more robust and more robust. But, remember, you each have different world views, but they're becoming more solidified over time. So, now 25 years into your relationship, you've got dramatically different world views and you know that your world view is right. And so, now you've got these two world views that start clashing all the time. And you can't break them out of it. I just tweeted out about this today. You have to be very careful. You can't want people to think the way you think because otherwise, your world view will solidify and it will become a prison. And so, what happens is life teaches you the way you approach the world is right. The way you invest is right. The way you run your YouTube channel is right. Look at all your success. Now, imagine that going for 25 years. Now, you're just like, "I'm right. Like, I don't What do you want me to say? Like, this works, man. All my success, everything that we've done, it's right. It's right. It's right." But, you have different world views and you both believe they're right. So, unless you are hungry to find that area "Oh, okay. I can't argue from the place of I'm right and you're wrong." But, we both have to argue from the fact that I believe I'm right. I feel right. And getting my solution, my way, will yield what I want. And the same is true for you. So, now we're colliding over something where it's not that you're wrong. It This gets very complicated. You can't even see what I'm thinking and feeling. You hear all the words, but you don't see the world through my distorted mirror. You see the world through your distorted mirror. So, I can't see what you're saying because I don't see the world through your distorted mirror. So, now you both you have to go, "Okay, we're both smart people who love each other. We're colliding. We each think the the person is crazy." Which is why you're getting upset cuz you think, "Wow, how can you live life like that? It's so ridiculous." So, you're like, "Okay, at this moment I have to say, even though I really, really believe that you would be better off doing things my way. Like, I can steal man your argument. I can tell you what your argument is. This is not confusion. Even though I can do that, I think you're crazy and I don't want to do it that way." You have to have a rule of engagement for how do we approach this problem? And this is where most people break because in that moment, you're going to have to do something suboptimally and your marriage has to be the thing you want to protect the most because often times my wife and I will collide over something around the business. So, now she could be [ __ ] with millions of dollars and I have to be willing to lose that money to protect my marriage because I'm going to have to compromise to some point on certain things. Mhm. It gets complicated cuz I know that first thing I said, if we disagree, it's always going to be my idea, but hey, you've got to contextualize if you're beating someone to death all the time, all the time, all the time, like, you're just going to demotivate them. So, even though by agreement I could, it's not wise. I don't want this to get too complicated. So, you have to be willing to compromise. There may be real consequences to that compromise and you have to want that marriage, their ability to have high self-esteem and to feel loved and appreciated and to feel like you're equal. You've got to want that for them so badly that you will compromise on some of the things you you want and they have to be willing to do the same. If you can do all of that, it's everything, man. Because there are going to be moments where I would just tell you, a person loving you and going to bat for you and being there for you in the ups and the downs and helping you think through the hardest problems and not judging you when they see you at your worst, that is so much better than money. There's nothing, nothing. I've tried it all. There's nothing better than that, at least if you're hardwired like I am. So, my understanding is that for conflict resolution between a married couple that's been going on for a while, the best thing is to acknowledge and to be mindful that there is a distorted window for yourself and for the other person. Absolutely critical. There is no objective right and wrong. Which we can get into. I'm going to give you a quick hypothesis. I'm not sure I'm right about the reason yet. I know I'm right about the the symptom. I don't know if I'm right about the cause. There's a guy named Donald Hoffman who believes that all of the world is basically a computer interface. And if you think about reality as being the electrical switches that are either on or off, that's the reality of a computer. That's the reality of sending an email. That's the reality of playing Grand Theft Auto. But you don't interface with it like that. You send an email by click-clacking on a keyboard to make little words appear on the screen. But what's really happening is electrical circuits going on and off really fast to process zeros and ones, okay? That's too complicated. So, his belief is that we evolve to have this user interface and now we're just dealing with the world through the user interface. If he's right and it feels like even though it may not be literally true, the outcome makes that feel like it's true, then you know, my distorted mirror is really just my version of that interface. Not it doesn't represent what is real objectively. We're not at the laws of physics level. So, since I know that I'm not dealing with the the on and off, I'm just dealing with an interpretation of it, becomes much easier to have this conversation of I just recognize that my world view is an abstraction. So, everything I believe is not it's not literal truth. I'm just dealing in the the realm of psychology, what we can just call symptoms of whatever the underlying thing is. That has helped me a lot to get out of my own way, to not be like, well, I know I'm right that this really is a black coffee mug where my wife's like, it's gray, what are you talking about? It's blue. It's like you start to realize, yeah, that might actually be how it's represented for you with your computer interface or your distorted mirror to stick with one metaphor. And so that becomes easier to to stop thinking I'm right and therefore we need to do what I say. When did you start thinking that way? This is going to surprise you in terms of the answer. When I was 14, 15. I really wanted to be good with girls and I wasn't. And so that began a very long journey of what is it that I have to learn to get good. That led me to reading Cosmo magazine, which led me to thinking about women through a psychological lens and then my mother gave me the best piece of advice. Your audience is going to be very surprised by the turn this interview has taken. My mom gave me the best piece of advice around women that I've ever gotten to this day and she said, women need to trust you in order to have an orgasm. And I was like, what? I'm sorry? Like the thought Uh, probably 15, 16. And so I was just like, uh, trust doesn't even enter into the equation for me. I don't even need to know their name. So that was so strange and it just made me go, whoa. I'm I'm having one experience, one frame of reference over here, but for somebody else it it is such foreign territory that I have to begin to understand what is true. And so that put me on this quest that led me to neuroplasticity, the human ability to improve. All of this stuff ends up paying dividends cuz for a long time I didn't think I'd ever be successful. I didn't think I was smart enough. I didn't realize that you could get better. I had a fixed mindset, all this stuff. But so all these little pieces start coming together with the Tao Te Ching. Long story. Uh, so I start cobbling this idea together that you can step outside of your frame of reference, which I wouldn't have known to call it that then. And more thought of it as different brains see the world in different ways. And if you can understand how they see it, then you can find a way to translate, well, this is how I feel, but I need to translate it into your language to make you feel what I want you to feel. So, something my wife and I talk a lot about, doesn't matter what you say, matters what the other person understands. So, to get to that, then you have to go, oh, well, the female brain is very different from the male brain. I understand this is highly controversial, but I'll just tell you real life's going to slap you in the mouth if you want to argue that point. And so, by embracing that, and so, how how do you define truth? That'll be an easy way. Truth is, if I believe it and act as if it were true, does my prediction engine work or break? When I look at the world with the assumption that the female brain is different in very specific and predictable ways, I can predict the outcome of my actions bouncing off my wife, just as an example, better than if I assume she views the world in the same way that I do. If I group women into a rough group, and I make predictions about my behaviors and the response I will get from them based on putting them in a group. Of course, huge distribution, we have way more in common than we have separate. We're compared to other things, we're basically the same. But, if you have if you operate with that, you'll find that your prediction engine is way better at predicting outcomes. And so, the more you get into steering your life by, I believe this thing to be true, any it's a hypothesis, scientific method tells me any hypothesis makes a prediction, if that prediction holds true, then the hypothesis becomes a thesis. So, I'm just constantly trying to get my best guess, which is my hypothesis, tested to see if the predictions it makes actually are true, and when they are, then I upgrade that thing to a thesis. I never say it's fact or it's true, largely because of the Donald Hoffman problem. So, I'm constantly looking for that disconfirming evidence that will give me a better way to perceive what's happening, so my prediction engine will be even better. And so, you refine, refine, refine. Let's say you're in a relationship with the girl for a couple of years. How do you know that this is the one that you should spend the rest of your life with? Like, what are the pillars to a successful marriage? I asked Alex and Leila Hormozi this question. They gave me a very similar answer to what I thought the answer was, and I want to know your opinion. Yeah, so what you're looking for is shared values, but complimentary worldviews. So, again, to give the example between Lisa and I, I'm a move towards something, Lisa's largely move away. I look and see opportunity no matter what. I'm very um I don't mind risk at all, and Lisa's more risk averse. She sees how things could break. She's about systems and process. And so, when you put us together, once we realized that we needed to value the tension between the two of us, and that it it's what makes a kite work. You need a kite and a string. If you have just a kite, the wind will blow it into nothingness, it will crash, land in a tree, end up on the ground, whatever. If you have just a string, it lays on the ground. But, you have a kite and a string, the dynamic tension between the two, if they both respect each other, now can keep that kite aloft. So, she's the string, I'm the kite. Neither of us are useful without the other, but we have core values that are the same. So, for both of us, our marriage is our number one priority. We have certain views around family, communication, uh what to pursue, not pursue. So, just a lot a lot of shared values. So, look for that. And then, because I am such a huge love junkie, I think you want to look for somebody that makes you feel like there's no way that two people have ever felt like this before. At the beginning, you have to understand that the neurochemistry that's going to change over time, but that moment like, "Yo, I'm so into this person." Because if you're not into that person, cuz it will get hard, and when you ask yourself, "Why am I with this person?" If you don't know, you're in trouble. And then, the last thing I will say is I highly recommend, especially the men, to do some sort of ritualistic scarification. So, it could be as simple as a tattoo. That's what I did. But, you want to It only worked for me because I It's the only tattoo I have. I'm not like a tattoo guy. If you're a tattoo guy, it's not going to work. But, you want to do something permanent that will remind you you are a different person before you get married than after. So, immediately after getting married, I took a tattoo that I designed and gave to my wife as a wedding present and got it tattooed. And the whole time I did it, I wanted to focus on the pain, wanted to focus on the permanence, and that I was doing this specifically to be a different person at the end of this. Came from a book called The Power of Myth, where he talks about one of the reasons he thought that so many marriages fell apart is there's no meaningful ritual that demarcates single life from married life. And so, then I did a lot of things around really thinking about my willingness to die for my wife and all of that. And so, just spending an inordinate amount of time thinking about that. My wife and I never even joke about divorce. We don't even say that word in our house. We call it the D-word. So, there is no exit. It's There Look, there are things neither of us would stay in an abusive or loveless marriage. Um but, it's our job to make sure that it never gets there. And we have a lot of tools and tactics to make sure that we don't get there. But, it should be the most amazing thing in your life, bar none. So, now it's the end. And uh thank you guys for making it all the way through, Jack. Uh what happened 2 months ago? um relationship discussion. Uh how were things with you and Macy? Great. Really? Fantastic. that a little bit more. It could have been better. by great? Fantastic. Yeah? I mean I mean it's significantly above average. Where's that put average at? Average is Average is good. Yeah. So, this is like significantly above good. It's great. Yeah. And would you say that you feel supported by her and you support her? Yes. What is the one thing that sticks above all else about Macy that you just love? Hm. Very caring. And I think selfless. I think selfless is a good word for her. Thanks for tuning in. No, come on, Jack. Okay. What happened 2 months ago? You said you said you wished that you got a haircut sooner. No, yeah, I mean that was just a joke. I was just riffing. I mean, realistically, I think I look better with the longer hair and I've had more success with longer hair than I have with shorter hair. So. I don't believe it. What is it that you don't believe? You're not present. You're not present when I'm going on dates. These PI's These amounts of dates that I go on, guys. How many dates are you going on? Not a ton. Enough to, you know, Do you actually Do you actually see a difference between long and short hair? Yes. How? Yeah, if I cut my hair short, uh if there's any girl I'm talking to at that time, they're just like, "Ah, I I just liked you better with the longer hair." Are you serious? swear. Do they leave or what happens? No. Did they leave me? Yeah. They're like, "Hey, come back. Sorry, I don't know what happened." They're just like No, they just like they'll flat out say it. Yeah. They know I'm I I I can take criticism and I I'm fine hearing stuff like that, so they just flat out say it. it odd. I like it. a couple accounts. Yeah, it's for the past like 5 years, man. This is why I'm so apprehensive to cut my hair short. Do you like it short or no? No. Really? so. No. You should grow out your hair long, man. I think you look really good with like a Flock of Seagulls look or maybe like, you know, down to your shoulders. No, no, no. I think it looks so bad with long hair. Couldn't do it. Well, that's everything you guys need to know about relationships. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode and we'll see you on Sunday. See you next time.