The Uber Eats To OnlyFans Pipeline

George, you're a connoisseur of beverages, would you say so? >> As you open another carbonated beverage. Well, gentlemen, >> cheers. Oh, >> have you ever had full fat Coke with salted peanuts in it? >> No, >> I have not. >> Say less. Uh, take a glass. >> Okay, thank you. >> Take a Coke. Take a peanut. >> Um, so there's a viral tweet that goes out about 30 years ago. I read in a Haruki Murakami essay that in America it's popular to drink cola with peanuts in it. I just went, "Huh?" And a long time passed since then, but I finally tried it. What the hell is this? It's ridiculously delicious. No kidding. It's at a level where I don't want to drink cola any other way anymore. So, we are going to drink. >> Have you before? Or are we going to >> I saved this. I saw that and I've been edging myself with [ __ ] cola and peanuts since then. >> Is there an order you have peanuts first? >> I think [ __ ] That's crazy, right? >> Peanuts first. Peanuts first seems more insane. >> It's like cereal. I've I've blown my load early. Hold on. >> Uh, peanuts in Coke is the most accidentally perfect food pairings in history. The chemistry explains why this guy can't go back. Coca-Cola sits at pH 2.5, roughly the same acidity as stomach acid. You What's awful? >> We need to show the camera what this looks like. It does not look as good as >> But look at how much it's Look at how much it's fizzing. Anyway, there's a load of signs. Salt on the peanuts suppresses the bitter taste receptors on your tongue which amplifies your perception of the sweetness. You can without adding a single gram of sugar. The carbonation does two things. CO2 dissolved in liquid forms carbonic acid which wait. >> So I think we need to leave it. So we're going to we're going to have we're going to set this down. We'll come back to it. We'll come back to it in like I don't know. >> Honestly, the original Coke like this alone >> already would have blown my mind. I haven't had Have you like you had this? This is like This is This is actually Jared, you need you need this. Don't forget. >> You need to have a high high potency on yours unless you Anyway, so this is this is You're a connoisseur of beverages, especially sparkling ones. >> This is my >> Should we take a starter sip? >> No, I think we wait. I think we wait. We're going to wait for a little bit and then come back to it. >> And this doesn't get you high or anything. >> Well, no. [laughter] It's the only thing that you're interested in. >> He's no longer interested. >> No, no, I'm interested in other things as well. >> Okay. All right. [laughter] So, what does it do? >> Question. >> Who do you think is the highest paid athlete of all time? >> I know the answer to this. >> Okay. Well, don't. >> One year all time. >> All time. All time. Who's the highest paid athlete? >> Um, Michael Jordan, >> Ronaldo, Messi, they come to mind. >> Michael Jordan will be second. >> Mhm. >> Tiger Woods third. Joey Chestnut Palmer, Bonnie Blue actually is probably [laughter] depends what sport you're talking per competitor. Real endurance. >> Can I throw a guess out there? >> Yeah. >> There was a Roman chariot racer who allegedly made over a billion dollars. >> Correct. >> You owe Pullman cuz you just you just predicted what he was going to say. >> A history teacher. Uh well, does crazy things to your mind. >> Gas Appalaus Dioles. Uh, so Michael Jordan has earned 1.8 billion. Tiger Woods 1.7 billion. Arnold Palmer 1.4 billion. Jack Nicholas 1.2 billion. >> Oh, it was 15 billion. He >> 15 billion in today's money. He basically won 35,863 120 cister by some estimation over 15 billion in 2011. >> And that's pure income from the sport. So I assume because back then there's probably no sponsorship. >> Yeah. >> Shield deal. >> Yeah. I wonder I wonder who could have I wonder who could have offset his Bodaca budget. >> Wow. >> 15 billion, dude. >> And uh the tweet says, "Eat [ __ ] Michael Jordan, you broke." [laughter] >> Yeah, I think I saw that same thing. That's why I knew that. >> That's what I've That's what I've contributed. That's why >> I did kind of ruin it by KNOWING THE ANSWER. BUT WE'LL LET THAT SLIDE. NO. >> DID do we have a photo of this guy? because like >> uh just search that dude Jared the [ __ ] gas appaus diocles. I'm sure you can spell that. >> It's uh it's fascinating coming from the UK to the US and seeing how Europe is kind of criticized as being like a socialist place and the US is seen as this >> capitalist place. Meanwhile, our sports are more way more capitalist. And you I still don't understand how US sports work where you have cuz I went to go watch a Miami Heat game and I searched a guy's salaries and one guy's on like 50 million and then the rest are on like his entire salary combined which is absurd. >> And he can't make more than that. It's capped. >> Huh. >> Which is unamerican, right? >> But we get why. And then you have the whole um like draft at the end of the season where whoever finished last gets rewarded the most. Like it's the most unamerican thing. >> Communist approach to this. All right. Should we drink this Coke? Should we been staring at me? All right. Cheers, gentlemen. Cheers. >> Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. >> [ __ ] >> [ __ ] that, mate. >> [ __ ] that. [laughter] >> Sweet and salty. >> Tastes quite a lot like Coke. Tastes like Coke, but then I ate the peanuts. >> Yeah, it's the >> Which is nice. >> You know what it tastes like? >> Coke with peanuts. [laughter] >> It did not change the flavor at all for me. Maybe let it sit longer. >> It's less different. Maybe we need to take >> I think it's more the aesthetic. Oh, you think that would this is an art piece? >> Yes. Like even even if you made a um >> It looks like what happens if you eat too much Mexican food? >> Yeah. If you had the best Michelin [laughter] Yes. >> just looks so much like there's too much [ __ ] >> Yeah. Look, >> I do enjoy chewing while drinking Coke. So, that's good. That's a positive. >> I'm going to keep going with that. >> Yeah. What if you I mean couldn't you choke on the peanuts in >> That's always a risk. >> Yeah. >> I have a question for the group that I wanted to ask people on. >> Um >> bullish or bearish on certain trends. So I kind of want to know um trends that are big right now in society or aren't big right now that you think should be bigger. So just give me um things that people uh maybe particularly um popular about right now that you think don't deserve to be and vice versa. >> Overpriced and underpriced. Okay. Uh, I think it's overhyped at the moment. >> I want to say AI, but then it's probably going to change the [ __ ] world. I just feel sick of hearing about it. >> I'm kind of sick of hearing permanently about how it's going to be the end of everything or the beginning of everything. And there's no one that's in the middle. There's no one that's like, "Yeah, AI is pretty cool." It's people who are complete doomers or just like David Friedberg. Like, there's only two ends of the barbell. But I I would quite like AI to chill out a little bit in terms of everyone talking [laughter] about it. >> Well, I guess we've never lived through a mania like this. I guess the one would have been the internet. >> Crypto with NFTs was a little bit, but it was >> crypto with NFTs was [ __ ] hard, dude. That would have been top of my list. M but I think a lot of sensible people were skeptical about NFTs for sure aspects of crypto whereas I feel like you know uh AI right now I mean even the people who are doomers they're not saying AI sucks they're saying it's too powerful it's either this is so powerful life is going to be amazing or this is so powerful life is like over for us and nobody's really nobody really like hey this is ah it's just a flash in the pan like in the early internet there's famous articles where it's like the internet won't amount to anything. This is a fancy fax machine. There's, you know, there's articles you can go pull up now and mock people. I feel like with AI, we kind of all know. >> H what about you? What do you think? >> I'm getting really into um metaverse real estate. It's it's the place now. Now's the time to get in. So, I'm buying up a lot of land. I've got a place to snoop. >> This feels a little bit like kicking a dead body whilst it's on the ground and saying that you killed it. Do >> you know what I mean? You can't say the metaverse is overhyped when it's already dead. You know that Simpsons meme where it's like stop, stop, he's already dead. Don't see you hanging a B ape up in there, do you? So there you go. [laughter] >> Why don't you talk about your cryptos? >> You know, here here's actually a weird one that I was Did all right on that toad. Did all right that toad, baby. >> All right. Um, >> you can look it up on chain as well, actually. So there's no there's no fraud there. There's no lies. You can you can verify my NFT activity, good sir. Um, you know, one that I'm weirdly because I was thinking about there's lots of stuff you could say where it's almost trite, right? So, you go AI is going to change the world and it's like most people will probably agree with that. So, therefore, it's kind of a neutral statement. And I was thinking, well, what are people what's cliche to be bearish on right now and then what's the bullish take for that, >> right? >> My two big ones are number one, the mainstream media. I'm ridiculously bullish in the next five years on the VA the mainstream media has um which is like the oh it's kind of like don't go to college kind of statement whereas it's kind of saying almost the opposite now of go to college mainstream media in particular there's it's almost like they have the highest value audience in the world because nobody I know listens to mainstream media and that's kind of part of the joke except Donald Trump except Kissed Armor except Macron like we was at dinner the other night wouldn't say who but was somebody who um used to work in the cabinet in the UK and one of my favorite questions to ask people apart from that question previously is when you meet somebody who knows a lot about an industry of you've worked in this thing for ages what do like layman's like me just not appreciate that's really fascinating on the inside and he paused for a while to answer the question about what it's like being inside number 10 and the thing he reiterated was how much of the conversation is shifted by what's on the BBC or what's on the Guardian and you kind of see this with Trump a little bit now when he'll address um he'll know like each news reporter by name and it's like meanwhile nobody reads this nobody consumes this but it still has such an >> rivalries with oh that's such and such from the lame times or whatever the I'm like what the >> yes and and likewise um in number 10 the amount of reactionary time just goes to what's on the headlines that nobody's reading really apart from a few geriatric 65year-olds therefore there's still it's kind of weirdly underpriced Well, there's there's always going to be prestige in the mainstream media because there's a limited amount of time and a limited amount of space. Anybody can make a YouTube channel, which is awesome and subversive and rebellious and whatever, but also that means anyone can make it. So, there's no prestige associated with doing it. >> Mhm. >> There's only 24 hours in the day on CBS. So, if you get 15 minutes of that day, that implicitly you're being given something. There's a good kind of prestige with it. That being said, does anyone ever watch Discovery Life? >> [snorts] >> You ever seen Discovery Life? >> Discovery Channel Life? >> No. >> So, I'm [ __ ] training in the gym and there's so many different TV screens. Brand new gym. So, apparently everybody needs to watch. It's like a a three-year-old playing Subway Surfer whilst watching Tik Tok at the same time. So, [ __ ] screens everywhere. I'm looking over and there's a a lovely lady on TV, black lady, like nicely dressed, a floral floral outfit thing. and she is having um one of her own fingernails extracted from behind her own ear like at 10:00 a.m. in the morning. Uh Discovery Life is an American cable uh television network. Uh the channel primarily focuses on reality programming dealing with life events. It's programming targets female audience, blah blah. It it it is [ __ ] medical emergencies at 10:00 in the morning. And I'm watching this like five inch long pair of tweezers extract this very nice lady's fingernail from behind her own [ __ ] eard drum. I'm like I'm trying to do bicep curls and it cut from that to the next one and it was someone's ribs being punctured >> [ __ ] 10:30 in the morning. Only in America would it be like healthcare has become basically a competitive sport now that you can [ __ ] broadcast on the internet. So, I don't know. I I I feel like this is the sort of thing you would have watched at an afterparty. >> I know. I've never seen that. >> I had this realization. I'm trying to find it now, but I wrote about it ages ago, which was I was once, similar to you, in the gym working out, and the news was on and it was just like this number of people have died in Ukraine today. This number of people have died in Gaza today. Um, and then take these pills. as I [laughter] and I imagined it of like if this was a bloke that was in the gym that was saying this or it was a friend, I'd be like I'm never speaking to you ever again. And it's like when you begin to personalize it like that, it's just you view it so differently. >> Except it would be a guy that was shouting it to the entire room. He wouldn't even be saying it to you specifically. He'd just be saying, "This black lady had an had had her fingernail caught behind her eard drum." Do you want me to tell you about the lady that took it out of her? >> Well, I work out at Planet Fitness, so we have people like that. [laughter] >> You've actually seen this happen live. >> Yeah. Yeah. There's like homeless people in there wigging out while we're while we're all trying to get fit. And um it's good motivation >> to be able. [laughter] Holy [ __ ] I need to make more money and work out somewhere else. >> Is it Planet Fitness like with your membership comes like free pizza or something? Pizza slice station at the gym. >> Yeah. So, you don't get the pills, but you do get a Tootsie Roll. It is It's It's embarrassing, dude. I I need to get a different gym. [laughter] >> I Dude, it's interesting that you say that though about being bullish on mainstream media because they've basically have hit the basement >> in terms of really everything. So, >> there's no way you could think they're going to do worse in my opinion. >> You couldn't be more bearish. >> Yeah. So, you're correct. Well, I'll give you another on hitting the basement right now. Um, one that I would buy the [ __ ] out of is the United Kingdom. Like everybody right now, the UK literally I think yesterday the news came out around it's like the worst um economic change in terms of the bond rating. Like the doom and gloom around the UK is so strong right now. But you just go it's with a goat. >> Hang on. Are you going to say never bet against the UK? >> No. No. No. Long-term yes. Long-term yes. just from just from even if they do nothing again just from a pure IP perspective like just what you have like I was think I was getting an argument today with Claude um in the car um and sometimes I I'll like bounce between Claude chat GPT and Crock that's my >> that's that's like when one of your side pieces won't put out [laughter] >> you pivot to another accurate >> I went I went to dad and he said no mom >> well I posed the question to Claude and I'm interested your guys take on this of who's had more who's more impactful to the world, the Roman Empire or United Kingdom? And I think it's the United Kingdom. Pound for I think pound for pound. We're onethird the size of Texas. And like who can who who's managed to um do this level of output that we've managed to do? And which is a very unbritish thing to say. >> Really living on [ __ ] borrowed time though, man. >> No, not really. Not really. >> When was the last thing we did that was cool? >> Um Deep Mind AI. Like the whole AI industry comes out of essentially London. >> How many people do you think know that? >> Um this is it. We're basically the technical the way of viewing UK to the US is like we're the technical guy that makes no money and comes up with all the ideas and then these guys are just great at sales and marketing like you can do um AI essentially the UK you could do Tim Berners Lee the internet you could do um I mean I don't know if this is fully true but because maybe he's such a genius that he thought this through but Bitcoin white paper written in um British English the correct English. >> Oh come on we don't know who he is. We don't know who he is, but there's a little bit there's a little bit of something that probably [laughter] certainly Indian. Yeah. >> But like if you look at um Yeah. If you want to keep going back, I always had this thing of if God had um like top Trumps of greatest country um and like each country tries to play their hand. It's the UK is a very tough one to compete with. >> It's very dwindling though. Like when you think about what the market's trend is at the moment, >> Newtonian physics still, >> he's being my main [ __ ] 500 years old. But if you I'm talking about the history of civiliz Roman Empire, what the Italians doing, but the Roman Empire still gets a lot of credit these days. But I just think um going back to the question um I'm bullish on the UK um just just in terms of pure IP um and impact on the world, >> but bullish would suggest that you'd invest in it. >> Yes. >> What with money? >> Put it all into the metaverse. I've got the [laughter] metaverse CNN. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Bridgetton. Yeah. >> What do you think about Claude? What do you mean? >> Do you like it? >> The AI. I personally think each each different AI slightly different. So, I'll use what I You might know if somebody's created this yet. What I want and I kind of if I did this, but then I couldn't be bothered actually turning it into a product, which I just want a group chat where I can post something in there, they all reply, and then they roast one another back and forth in the best, isn't it? General adversarial network. >> That's what that's called. >> Big brain on creating big [ __ ] That's it. Um, >> [laughter] >> uh, Jim Onessy's got it for his super crazy [ __ ] AI thing. >> And, uh, he said, "Yeah, they can get all of the different models to argue with each other behind the scenes and then whoever has the best answer for this one does it." >> And when you use Grock, they show it so that if you use like Heavy Grock or Super Grock or whatever Elon calls it, you ask a question and agent one pops up, he starts talking. I think what he wants to know is blah blah blah. Agent two comes in. Well, that wouldn't really be fully accurate. You should really be thinking about this agent 3 and it'll show up to process 15 or 16 agents basically like >> within the same AI. What you're talking about is you want Claude arguing with chat GPT arguing with [ __ ] Opus arguing with D >> like literally a group chat. >> Jared, pull up that New York Post article that I sent you. Stressed Gen Z is carrying around anxiety bags with tools to calm their nerves. Uh Hannah Fowls was spiraling. It'd been a grueling day at work, and by the time the 22-year-old from Provo, Utah, got home, panic was bubbling in her chest, and thoughts raced as her cheeks flushed red. I was starting to get super overheated. I couldn't calm myself down, Fowls told the post. Not thing that I normally do like breathing exercises or lying down in a dark room as working. Then she saw the bag. >> Jesus Christ. >> Just weeks earlier, F and her therapist had put together a small grabandgo kit filled with items to calm her when anxiety strikes. And uh she flicked on a small portable fan, letting the cool air wash over her face, pressed a culp pack to the back of her neck. While in the other hand, she gripped a spiky fidget toy, feeling its prong sticking into her palm as the panic began to web. Now, what I I know what you want to do. What you want to do is make fun of these people for having Look how it's an EDC bugout bag that like military guys have, but for Gen Z Gen Z people. What I want to know what I want to know is what would be in your anxiety bag, [laughter] Gary? Well, I actually have one of those bags. It's called a bag of drugs. Chris, thank you for asking me. Uh, yeah, just uh >> five grams of whole leafratom. >> We got cratom. We've got some empetamines in there. We've got new tonics. We've got volume to anxiety or just >> Oh, no. I'm just addicted to [laughter] drugs. And um now this is this is uh what was the question? I don't think you should make fun of people like this though because it's not really their fault that they're being sort of conditioned to have this obsession with mental health. >> That's my theory. >> That's exactly that's exactly >> like you take DEI. DEI starts from a good place. Hey, we should include more people. We should be more equitable. Everyone should get a fair opportunity a shot. But then these movements can get hijacked and the movements can get hijacked and stretched into the point where it doesn't really resemble where it started. I don't you guys see this thing with the Canadian politician who was using the LGBTQ acronym, >> but it was like 14 letters long. >> It's what is it? Murdered and missing women and ch indigenous women in ch MMJ. >> Did you see this? Uhuh. >> It's a full sentence long and listen. She's giving a press conference >> and she stands there and she just with a straight face says she wants to express her like, you know, condolences or whatever to the MMIWG 2SL. There's a number in there. 2SL GBTQ GBT QQQI A+ and she just says that with a straight face and then people were like what what the hell was all that and it's like includes like murder victims murderers >> missing women and children indigenous people like two spirit the two is for two spirit which is like yeah >> double a is in there which is asexual so here it is holy [ __ ] that's long >> was released I was shocked to find out that prime minister Carney is cutting $7 billion between Indigenous Services Canada and Crown Indigenous Relations. They provided 0 to deal with the ongoing genocide of MMIWGSLGBTQQIA plus. >> That's impressive. That's really you. She runs it back. >> Indigenous women across this country, indigenous women, girls to us, LGBTQIA plus. Dude, [laughter] it's [ __ ] wild. >> She's not reading off anything. >> That's off the dome. That's Eminem. >> She's like She's like the [ __ ] Harry Mack [laughter] of coming up with acronyms. You know that dude that [ __ ] He's like, "Shout out three words." And it's like umbrellas, stakes, shoes, and he like freestyle raps an entire thing about it. >> The Jay-Z. >> And they're serious about this, too. That's not even a joke. >> You know, that's not SNL. But on on your mental health point, I if this is why this that it's but I think what ends up happening is you end up with these swings, you can then have a swing so far the other way where it's like I mean everybody's know somebody's taking their own life, right? Like it's a that side of things is like serious. Totally. The problem with a lot of these things is you get to like a lot of the root of human experiences which is like ironically a little bit of that but so much of it is around the language that we use and within mental health you bundled up so much like you bundled up 7 billion individuals and it's become such a black and white t whereas I always use the example like diabetes is quite an interesting one right because you have type 1 diabetes which is a genuine medical condition that somebody's had um from birth and then you type 2 diabetes, which is a little bit more it's a lot more your choice in your environment and it feels like you don't have that kind of I'm going to try and speedrun my diabetes with this. This is getting better, by the way. [laughter] >> Yeah, actually >> it's getting better. Try it again. >> Coke on the nuts. >> Yeah. Before we continue, most people in their 30s are still training hard. Their protein is dialed in. They sleep better than they did in their 20s. 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I always joke that like cyber security nobody takes it serious as an industry because the naming is just awful. like and the biggest thing the cyber security industry could do is no new technology if they just branded it as CTIS like taking it from STI like computer transmitt infections all of a sudden I'm like I feel a little bit more about it like with the homeless problem right now how many people who are um homeless is that the main cause it's often it'll be some ironically some serious mental health issue that's going on so like the language >> interview I've interviewed so many homeless people dude half of them want to be homeless and I'm and to be quite frank I don't really blame them. If you want to go live in the woods, as long as you're not >> Why would Why would somebody want to be Why would somebody want to be homeless? >> Because they're not being tethered to this system that we're all living within that is currently kind of going down the drain. >> I mean, I don't I don't really blame them. That thing that we just pulled up, though, is exactly why people aren't taking mental health seriously anymore, though, because there's a [ __ ] in that what's it called? The DSVM3 or whatever, there's a there's a disease for everything, >> right? You know, >> so I mean like for example, when I was growing up, I got diagnosed all sorts of [ __ ] but really I was just a little [ __ ] And when you when you're start saying I got ADHD or I'm bipolar, I got borderline or you got this or that or whatever, you know, I got a I got a crutch I can lean on for every single [ __ ] shitty thing I do to somebody, which is awesome. >> There's a [laughter] there's a great a great line that someone said to me, which was mental health is both underdiagnosed and overdiagnosed. There's people who don't have it that just live through it and don't know and people who don't have it that make it their entire personality. >> All the people that actually have serious mental health problems that I'm at least friends with are mostly undiagnosed and they're just kind of, you know, wandering through life. Yeah, dude. Seriously. I I I agree with you and I I think it's easy to be like callous or whatever like flippant about these the people that have been diagnosed or self diagnosed or found their sort of mental health become more fragile. They don't want to be [ __ ] like they don't they don't want to be that fragile. They're just trying to hold on to some sense of certainty and the certainty is now come from their uh diagnosis rather than their agency. like they just can't make that thing out. And they're in a world that seems to pedestalize, you know? I mean, there's even a trend on Instagram of people having their mental health maladies in their bio. >> You know, like chicks do like Jesus in bio or you do pronouns. It's these are my maladies because that's where they're trying to find some sense of identity and they I don't think they want that. Sucks for those people. That's because, like I was saying, the same reason homeless people are like, "Yeah, I'm I'm checked out of this thing, it's because they don't fit into the system really because the system's just not working, you know?" And I'm using this this uh the system just as like a generality because it is so massive. But when you have people that are like not fitting into it, they want to find uh community within the other people that are all >> in the head, you know? I mean, it's the same reason why drug drug addicts all hang out together. And I think drug addiction is another thing that's mis diagnosed. >> Like, so >> misdiagnosed drug addiction >> like uh I didn't I didn't I guess I didn't say that. Well, people that are drug addicts, which can I think pretty much happen to anybody. Certain people are probably more predisposed to it, but people that are drug addicts get misdiagnosed as having some sort of mental health problem. But really, they're just on drugs and then off of drugs. They're withdrawing, then they're high again. >> Like when you kicked off at your video guy. >> Yeah. So, the first thing I want to bring to the table for today is uhratom is something I've been looking into because there's uh I think sort of an epidemic happening. And uh there's a video we got here that I can I can have pulled up. This is the guy I'm working with who I wigged out on the other day because he didn't buy me $10 atratom and I I quit. the dock because of that. Yeah, this stuff's strong. Yes. Like, so what he's talking about for to contextualize all this is 70 is 7 hydroxy metitrogene, which is one of the um I I guess it we could just call it a chemical that's in here. I don't know the science behind it. We're going to go actually interview a like a chemist about this stuff. But basically, people are taking, which is sold over the counter at gas stations and head shops, and there's even shops. But it is a leaf that's from Southeast Asia, that sort of mimics the effects of certain stimulants, but also opioids. It acts on your opioid receptors and SSRIs. And I think I I know a handful of people that have gotten very addicted to it and they're saying that it is the withdrawal is worse than heroin, which is >> pretty unbelievable given that heroin withdrawal is horrendous. >> And that's it. >> Yeah, man. I should have brought some for everybody. >> So, but you're just drinking that. >> Yeah, this is a lower dose than I was. >> But you're telling me it's like worse than heroin, but you're just >> So, so here's the thing, though. So, there's a difference between and I'm still in the process of figuring all this out. >> Um, and it literally Yeah. I So, I was drinking a bunch of this stuff every day for the past month and then I sort of wigged out on my my documentary partner >> because we got Yeah, it'll be in the dock. But, uh, there's um there's we were at a head shop and I was like, "Hey, dude. Let's get some of this cred. I want to test this stuff out." out and there's these thing there's 70 pills which is but it's like almost like percoet basically and it's sold over the counter which is nuts. I mean I'm not I'm not bashing it necessarily but it's interesting. It's sort of the wild west of this drug and it's not it's not like it's a new thing. They tried banning this in 2016. The reason I'm bringing it up is because we're doing this documentary and I think that we're on the verge of potentially an epidemic with it. >> Yeah. This has been I I've seen this in Austin since I basically got here. So there's a few uh small glass vials, you know, like a five-hour energy. Yeah. And there was a company that was making them and one of my friends had another guy who'd been addicted had whatever the addiction gene is, addicted to every different drug throughout his entire life. There's even YouTube channels of these people and they'll say which drug [ __ ] my life up the most. And they'll just list every drug cuz they tried everything. They're like, "Well, coming off LSD was actually not that bad. But I had this period where I was on MDMA every single day for like two months, and that was really, really rough cuz my serotonin and D." >> And uh he said of all of the things that he tried, the hardest to get off of was Kraton. And then he knew so much >> at 6:00 in the morning, the Sunrise Mini Mart on whatever [ __ ] South Lamar Street or something. He was outside like waiting like >> waiting for this. And then this company had taken their uh theratom content without changing the bottling from 5 g of whole leaf to 2 and 1/2. And he knew and as soon as he had it, he was like, "My [ __ ] cratom's been stepped on." He like felt like >> from the mini mart. >> Yeah. The Sunrise Mini Mart stepped on his whatever the company that was making this because these people aren't treating it like a supplement that it's so psychoactive. And okay, the one thing I guess I didn't explain very well is that there's a difference between like the pureratom leaf powder and the stuff that has the 70 in it, which is the synthesized version. But and the reason I didn't explain that very well is because it's kind of confusing. Butratum leaf itself, I mean, you can still get addicted to it, but the 70 stuff is what's [ __ ] people up. Okay, >> for reference, just cuz I know some somebody that's addicted toratom is going to watch this and be like, "That son of a [ __ ] blasphemed uh myrratom." So that is uh >> but the 70 is the really gnarly stuff. >> Yeah. So that's I'm going to get some of those pills and start taking them. But yeah, drinking extract with the 70 in it is basically drinking liquid heroin. >> What does it feel like? >> It's very interesting. It's very sneaky. So I was drinking it for a month before I really realized how high I was on it. >> Have you done heroin? Oh yeah, I'm from Ohio, dude. >> So, [laughter] >> um, >> how how do they how do they compare like a 708? H E R I O N [laughter] if you was if you was personifying them as people, like what how do they how do they compare the two? >> If it was a party, >> to heroin. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I haven't done high levels of the 708 stuff yet, but comparatively, >> the theratom drinks that I've been drinking are called Club 13 150 MIT MIT, which is metragginine. That's the the drug, I guess. And I was drinking two of those a day, which is it turns out it's a lot for that, but there's not a lot of 70 in it from what I understand how it works. So, I don't have the full scope yet for you, but I would say that heroin is, you know, you're you're you get really high, you feel great, you get that warm feeling in your stomach. You've taken painkillers before, right? >> No, not really. No. >> Okay. Well, good on you, dude. You're better than me. >> Yeah. No, no, no, no. Don't mean it that way. >> Top of the morning. You you are you conscious of the experience as you're doing it? >> Yeah. You know you're high. So the I guess the primary difference would be that when you when you take them or when I have been I've been I I just didn't even realize how high I was on this stuff >> like I was kind of just in a days but you get sort of that euphoric feeling and I will say that in in low doses of it it's sort of more of a stimulant >> and then you take more and you're getting more of an opioid you know the the painkiller sedative. Isn't that interesting that the curve, how much you take, almost inverts the >> It's a nuance drug. And I've never really experienced that before, which was one of the things I was going to say that's is sort of sneaky. But the other thing is, and maybe this is just me, uh, but I didn't really grasp that I was high as hell on this stuff. >> And I was, uh, going in sort of thought loops about things like, we had to get like a video done, right? And I was just sort of pacing around my house, which I pace a lot already when I think or I'm on the phone, but I was just sort of going in these thought loops where I was repeating myself like kind of even talking to myself. Yeah, dude. And I didn't realize that this was this drug was that strong because it's sold over the counter. And that's >> already I already knew from a number of other people who have gotten addicted to it cuz I did some, you know, I put some feelers out there to talk to people. They already told me like, "Hey, be careful. you're gonna it's gonna sneak up on you more so than you think. >> Are you scared as somebody who's pretty experienced with drugs? Are you scared of the potential of putting yourself into this particular you're going to try this 70 thing and it's going to be amazing for the dock and it's going to teach you a lot and you're going to be able to empathize with people that are struggling with this but you are >> putting your health and life on the line. I'm aware you've done it in other ways a lot but like this I don't know it feels like a pretty big dice roll to do that. Is that something that you consider? No, I'm I'm not really worried about it. I mean, what's going to happen? I'm going to have to just Yeah. I mean, >> I'm going to go to Thailand and see where this stuff comes from, though. >> Okay. >> Get the the real >> Jesus Christ. You're going to the It's like going to Mordor and deciding to like [ __ ] stare into the eye of Mount. >> I have the theratom shot in my hand as I'm looking into the eye of my >> I've done it once. >> I've done it once as well when we was in Vegas. >> You did you get energy from it? So, well, my initial my initial onboarding toratum when you was doing the David Gogggins podcast, ironically with David Gogins, >> hey, why didn't we vlog that I did [ __ ] >> So, for context, I at the time like this is how things change with time. >> That's the week that we did mushrooms. >> Yeah. And Kraton was seen as um um like a supplement like it it was seen as a neutropic at the time. That was how it was advertised to me. I thought it was going to be a study. I thought I could take it and I could work more and I remember like going this is [ __ ] But then I realized I had no more problems. I was like on it. I've got no problems at all. I go, "Why do I always think I have problems? I actually have no problems." >> Cuz you're high, George. >> And then I wanted TO GO [laughter] >> and then I wanted to get >> Welcome to my world, buddy. >> You think I've got so few problems? >> Yeah. It's weird how you go from no problems and then when it wears out, you've got so many problems. >> Yeah. And then you're snapping your producer and you're like, "Hey, [ __ ] you. I quit. >> Was it $10 and cratom?" Which is crazy embarrassing. >> Well, I mean, >> when did you do it? Uh, so I tried Feel free, which is like this really really popular company. >> That's for the record. That's one of the companies that's being sort of put under the microscope is this is the not good, >> but they're not using the 70, right? That's just Whole leaf. >> I got to look at that. You know, >> I'm pretty sure Yeah, pull it up. I'm pretty sure that the this is Whole Leaf stuff. Anyway, um I this is forever ago. This is when I was living in the Airbnb on South Congress when I first moved here. And uh everyone's doing it. everyone's it's it's literally the in school mom but everyone's doing and so I'm like oh well [ __ ] everyone's doing it and I was like okay I'm going to try this in the house I'm going to try half a bottle I don't know I can't remember whether it was five gram 2 gram whatever tried it and it just made me really anxious >> anxious and a little sick for like >> an hour and a half I watched some peaky blinders and I was like that's not for me >> and you just drank one bottle of it >> half a bottle and I was like that's not for me. So, a lot of people get feel sick to their stomach after they drink it and throw up and stuff like that. >> It didn't It didn't make me feel good. Me and Z did it again when we went to go and see a band, but we didn't realize you are not supposed to drink alcohol on it. >> Yeah, it'll make you black out. Also, feel free has cava in it, too. >> Correct. But it's a only in a a little >> It might be concentrate. Anyway, so I I I tried it. It didn't agree with me. There's like some things where I think um I get quite bad hangover. I've always got bad hangovers, but they've gotten worse as I've got older. What you've got, if you were someone who doesn't get hangovers, Sunny Webster, Olympic weightlifter, I remember we once party till 4 in the morning, 4:30 in the morning, and he set off to drive from Newcastle to Edinburgh, 8:00 a.m. to go into a seminar that started at 10:30. He'd had 4 hours of sleep, drank more than me, and was just up and doing things for the whole and then went and gave an entire seminar and was just fine. I needed to stay in bed the whole day. There's some people for whom the cost versus the benefit, the [ __ ] ratio is just super skewed. They're like, again, they're like the goget. They're the Bonnie blue of being able to drink and keep going. [laughter] And >> dude, don't ever use Bonnie Blue as a reference point. >> She's >> You're very much the Virgin Mary of that. >> Yeah, that's I am. I am very much. Yeah, I'm the Lily Phillips. I can't take as many. And uh [laughter] if if that was like if it was not so painful for me, >> the costbenefit analysis of drinking would be completely different. Like we did both me and you have done a Intel XDNA, which by the way, >> this is the [ __ ] sickest [ __ ] >> Intel XDNA company that's based here in Austin, but you can do it anywhere in the US. You spit into a tube, not affiliated, I just think they're [ __ ] sick. Spit into a tube, send it off, they'll give you your full alil genetic profile, and they'll compare you to the population. Hey, you uh clear caffeine more slowly. Um you have a protective gene that's uh good for late onset Parkinson's. You have uh one which can be a risk for uh autism or for this or for that or for the other and in loads of behavioral stuff like this has been associated with people who have addictive personalities. So I have the the comt uh gene which is a I clear dopamine more slowly. That means that I don't deal with chaos and stress particularly well. But once I start doing something, I get completely [ __ ] obsessed and I lock in and I can't stop. It's like literally one of the descriptions was may struggle to stop tasks once started. It's like just the the gene of an obsessive person. >> What's sick is once you do it's like three grand or something and maybe three grand >> around about that. It's four grand. It's not cheap, but it's like they're never going to change. This is my jeans and my jeans. >> I always wonder with this did did you learn things you didn't already know about yourself? >> Yes. >> Because that first one you would know like Yeah. I I don't handle this well. So, but I do I am able to obsess over tasks. >> So, I I'll give you So, the way I view these intellect stuff and it's like very early days and they're only going to get better and better is have you heard about the uh Air Force study in the 1950s where they took like 600 Air Force pilots who were already male, certain height, certain build um and they tried to build um like the average cockpit for all of them. the perfect cockpit aggregating all of the proportions of the pilots. >> And when they went to test this perfect cockpit that they built, it fit zero >> cuz essentially averages are completely [ __ ] >> No one is average. >> Only only I think for so it was 12 things that they measured and only for only three of them hit 3%. So you can see it here and even that 3% it's with a wide range. So the 3% that hit the range for example it would be between 59 and 6 foot like that level of range. So then they realized and obviously it's so obvious now but it's way better to just build a customizable cockpit. And I think we'll look back at everything like how we've grown up around the way people talk about studies and magnesium and vitamin D and vitamin C is just absolute horshit because what Gary should take is very different to what I should take and likewise with Chris. So to give you some to give you some concrete examples, one I was in I found out I was in the bottom 10% of magne magnesium absorption for my genetics. So I was like, "Oh, I've got to take way more than if I was to ask anything." Um I have a specific gene that I found which was if I take um if I have surgery and they give me morphine, I'm very unlikely to wake up with a regular dose. It will probably kill me. So I've got to let doctors know that beforehand. I'm like, "Oh, that's already paid for the test." And then everything that example [laughter] sleeping sleeping great that was um um so you yeah the the specifics that you do learn is actually pretty fascinating because then everything gets built on top of it give let me give you this uh the thing that it did for me I didn't learn a tremendous amount that I didn't already know through experience but it made all of my preferences feel way more legitimate. >> Right. Give you permission. >> Yeah. Because I'm like oh this is why I like deep house music because it's quite calming. So, one of the coolest things, both of us did it, put it into your LLM, put all of your labs in as well, and it gives a different context. The coolest thing that I did, kind of useless, but again, made me feel more legitimate with my life direction. It's like, um, I've just done it again now to my CHPT project. Imagine that you know nothing about me. Erase all of the information that you have exclusively based on my DNA genetic test. What sort of a person am I? And it comes back and it is [ __ ] banger. Your baseline personality, high drive, high stress operator, your dopamine and stress genetics, comta, DBH, SLC, D. High baseline dopamine and adrenal tone, faster mental processing, strong pattern recognition, but low margin for stress before overload. You become productive, intense, goal oriented, slightly on edge most of the time, but also prone to overthinking, easily tipped into anxiety and to sustained pressure, sensitive to uncertainty and social evaluation. This is not a calm, content temperament. It is a perform or perish nervous system and it just runs that for everything. Motivation pattern I need to do off and on. I can't do constant low-level stress. And I was like I already knew this right because you learn things about yourself. Both of us have zeroed in on doing meditation. Both of us have zeroed in on relatively early nights even though both of us have been in previous industries that were way different. And I'm like I kind of club promotion should be fun. Like I should be in a chaotic environment. I should be in a highly unpredictable environment. But I didn't end up there and I always felt a little bit off. And as I've zeroed in more and more, so what it did was, I think, especially for people that are maybe looking for more justification about why they're in the lonely chapter. They're struggling to get through and they're like, "Fuck, like, why don't I fit in? Is there something wrong with me?" Not at all. Like, this is just your predisposition. Now, the problem that you can have, and it's kind of cool that this isn't as widespread as it might be, exactly the same as once you have a name for it, you're going to live by it. Uh, this could very much become destiny. >> Right. Both ways. Exactly. >> I'm way less intrigued in that kind of cold reading description. I'm way more interested in >> like it's like, you know, it could have it could have been like Virgo says this, right? Um, but what I'm fascinated by is so what's the strange thing I people have always said I'm very very similar to my granddad. We have like similar hair. I like sometimes find myself like closing my eyes during meals and he did that like weird things. Um, >> you did that your birthday on Monday >> and I did um and >> I then I then put in the thing I go I asked the thing I go if I'm like trying to not die here like what are my most likely causes of death and they go well your two biggest health concerns are one in gluccom so you'll just kind of gradually go blind which won't kill you. Um or you'll die of a stroke. My granddad gluccom [laughter] and um and stroke and stroke. Wow. >> Yeah. So, um it's if if you've got money, it's sick and uh you can have it interpreted by a clinician or whatever, but you can also just do it here. So, I've just done the same thing. If I was likely to die, what are my most likely causes of death? Cardiovascular disease. Uh uh chronic stress mediated breakdown. Oo, that's exciting. Neurovvascular neurological issues because of high signaling. Environmental toxin sensitivity. I just [ __ ] got popped by milk. They're going to clone you. >> Yeah, that's true. That is freaked out. They don't need >> See, I don't need a test like this to know how I'm going to die. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got agency over that, my friend. You've got agency over that. >> I'm going to have a heart attack, a drug induced heart attack while flying down the highway. Before we continue, as you're probably aware, I'm not a massive drinker. At least not anymore. But even if you too are not drinking, sometimes you just want something cold, frosty, and tasty without the fear of a hangover the next day. which is why I'm such a huge fan of Athletic Brewing Co. Thank you very much. Their non-alcoholic brews taste just as good as The Real Thing. They've got IPAs, Hazy Goldens. They're so good that you'll forget that there's no alcohol in them until you wake up the next day feeling fantastic. It means that you can enjoy the ritual without the wreckage. No hangover, no 3:00 a.m. panic, no wasted Sunday recovering from Saturday. That is why I partnered with them. You can find Athletic Brewing Co.'s bestselling lineup at grocery or liquor stores near you. Or best option, you can get the full variety pack of four flavors shipped right to your door right now. Get up to 15% off your first online order by going to the link in the description below or heading to athleticbwing.com/modernwisdom using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's athleticbwing.com/modern wisdom and modern wisdom at checkout. Near beer, terms and conditions apply. Athletic brewing company, fit for all times. I need to bring up something that you said at dinner the other evening. >> I will. Did you say that you think that people remember every porn video that they've ever watched? >> No, no. It's this [laughter] was a private dinner that people had paid to be there and you brought it up on the show. No, no, no. My my thesis is um like one big meta criticism I have of the US that nobody warned me about as a Brit um is that the toilets in America like I could be at like Deans like a very nice restaurant in Austin and be having like a an amazing chat about like Kagard thing about like Kard versus Aristotle sorry let me just pop to the Lu Facebook you go to the Lu and in America the cubicles you can see people's feet in them. And the worst thing is there's like this slit in every single and this is nationwide. >> You're in the women's, >> you can be in the you can be in the like a billionaire's like hotel and there's a slit there which means they have unisex toilets is horrific. Like I don't even go in the unisex toilets for this reasons. You you look you can see people kind of just this carousel of them sat down squatting and yeah this whole idea that when you watch like graphic content it stores in your brain forever. So I've just got thousands of men around Austin just like there like these carousels and then you went to the bathroom and this is supposed to be the number one country in the world and like this doesn't exist in Europe. This doesn't exist in the Middle East. >> You know what you could do? Do you remember those things like back in the day the the first uh those cycling cylinders and you look through the slit and if you spin it, it makes a horse start to move. If you ran really quickly down a very long series of toilets and >> you're just looking at these different men like stages of pooping. >> It's horic. >> Dude, you know how I know that I'm watching too many graphic videos is because when you said there's a horse that starts to move, I heard there's a [ __ ] that starts to move. [laughter] >> Jesus, that's not good, man. >> Jesus. Every time like I speak to a Brit or European now about coming to America and they think like there's going to be this chat about the economy. I go, this is the thing that I've got to warn you about. It's so surreal and I think about this a lot like one of you were talking ear about like life hacks like how much of life comes down to compartmentalization which is why somebody made a great point the other day why meditation apps often don't take off on phones because you have your meditation out there but then you have your strip club you have um yeah all this kind all this stuff there um and with these bathrooms you don't have any compartmentalization I always say imagine a house so my friend lives in an 80 um story apartment building and we kind of sat there in his house. I go, "If everything was glass right now, it this would be this would be horrific." But because you have compartmentalization, um it has such an impact. >> Well, your your point is that you would be able to see one dude's taking a dump over there and another dude's banging his girlfriend right there. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Literally just up there. >> But we made these arbitrary walls around us and oh, this is the edge of my safe place in the beginning of yours. >> I like where we started. You were like, I have this thesis and then if you >> What did we even talk about? >> You were talking about somebody said something about porn or >> Yeah. You brought a pornographic stuff in your >> genetics porn, right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Question. >> How do you feel about feet? >> Not a fan. >> No. >> Gross me out. Not a fan. How do you feel about feet? >> Pretty much the same as Sean. >> How do you feel about >> like a totally neutral? >> Feet neutral. >> Yeah. Okay. >> In what capacity are we talking about here? >> Okay. So, there is a woman who does Uber Eats and has started including photos of her feet in the picture of the food drop off and her tips have gone up by a ton. [laughter] >> So, this is I mean as feet go. >> He said nice pedicure. >> They're perfectly fine feet. Uh but did not realize that this would blow up fast. And this is the only fans pipeline. Like as soon as you as soon as you post something and start to get free money for it, you're like, "Well, if I put my cash app in here and if you scroll down a little bit more, she says get a rotisserie chicken or a pedicure first rotisserie chicken allowance." There we go. This is the [ __ ] only Uber Eats to Only Fans pipeline that no one is talking about. [laughter] >> Yeah. I mean, what's there's like an old joke about what's the how long does it take for a b not a bottle source, a strip club waitress to become a stripper? two weeks. You never heard this? >> Yeah. Like like basically every not every but a lot of strip club bartenders or hosts, hostesses, they they just end up becoming strippers. And maybe that's just a niche thing that I know because of my uh vices. >> Ponchant for strip clubs. >> Yeah, I guess. Dude, I uh I used to have you know this. I think I've told you this. I used to have this pickup line when I would go to strip clubs where I'd be like, "Hey, uh" [snorts] be like, "You look just like my future ex-wife." And they'd be like, "Oh, haha." Cuz they've heard that a thousand times. I'd be like, "No, I'm just kidding. I'm like a horrible person. I've got a felony. I'm not allowed to see my son, so you don't want nothing to do with me." And just >> they lean in >> every time. It's crazy. >> Isn't that the [ __ ] craziest pickup line? >> Not really. I mean, American women have been conditioned since the 50s to be into like the bad boy. >> I mean, first of all, it was a two-parter, so that already was sophistication. I was one old one. >> Unbelievable. Gary rule. >> That's Gary's life hack, by the way. >> Floyd May. He asked me for a life hack. That's what I came up with. >> That's [laughter] life. >> Jesus [clears throat] Christ. >> What have you got? Somebody [ __ ] notes app. I don't want to hear about that. [laughter] >> [gasps] >> Then tell me about your claude your Claude project instructions. I want to know how to pick up a hooker. >> I know you want to do one now. [laughter] >> Have you seen the subreddit male living spaces? >> Yes. It's funny. >> It's [ __ ] brilliant. So, this is a subreddit where guys post their bedrooms and their living spaces that they've sort of designed this sort of peak bachelor like solo DGEN life and uh the photos are just [ __ ] absolutely spectacular. This one, this first one, this guy's got a lat pull down machine and a TV [laughter] the face Patrick Baiton. >> Did that Honestly, this looks Have you ever seen Mr. Beast's office? It looks exactly like this. He has a bedroom in the office with a bench press right next to it. Just like that. >> The one with the [ __ ] >> Stormtrooper. >> I love it. >> Yep. [laughter] >> There's a U-shaped couch around just a huge TV. It's It's like literally you couldn't get in there without hitting the TV. >> It's not even a hung over. >> But look, the reason is because he's wanting to get a a big couch, but he needs to get in the door. >> So, the door won't open. He can't fit the couch and the TV in without not being able to open the door. That's the only way he could have. That's actually some [ __ ] Marie Condo [ __ ] [laughter] >> Transparent [ __ ] blowup doll. [laughter] This one's [ __ ] It's an industrial container with a single deck chair in the middle. >> The camping chair pointing [laughter] at >> That's the living room. >> Yeah. Yeah, that is that's the cuck chair for when [laughter] when I'm crushing [ __ ] Go to the next one. >> This is you, Gary. [laughter] >> It's a bedside table made out of just raw breeze blocks. >> Yeah. You know, when I was growing up, my dad actually had our old box TV on a set of cinder blocks for a period of time. The divorce hit him hard. >> It works as drawers, too. >> Oh, it does work as drawers. [laughter] >> Wow. It's a bottle of cratom and everything. >> Is it [laughter] >> Is it a flat in London or a prison in Norway? Have you seen that? >> Was it not halls of res? Was it not British Halls of Residence? I think there's a few prison prison in Norway or halls of residence in the UK, I think, was it. And uh yeah, it's because the [ __ ] quality of the prisons in some Scandi countries are unbelievable, >> dude. Yeah, I've seen those. That that pisses me the [ __ ] off. >> Well, that Norwegians are living in >> the people in prison in Norway are doing much better than me. It's It really irritates me. I'm dead serious because like you know I've been known to commit a crime or two and >> if I get arrested and go to prison I'm like it just is >> you get arrested here. >> Yeah dude I mean I'm part of me is like man maybe I should just go to Norway and like >> get in a shootout or something. I don't know [laughter] >> like that. You guys remember that movie um Heat. >> Uh I haven't seen it >> the Leon um Robert Dairo film >> Dairo Pacino um uh Val Kilmer. Yeah, I think Danny Tjo is even in it. But like the there's just that old like, you know, every guy's like dream way they they're going to go out is just basically robbing a bank and getting in a shootout. Or maybe that's just the people I hang out with, but you you familiar with this? >> No. No. No. No. >> Oh, okay. Are you know what I'm talking about? You ever seen those memes or those? >> Yeah. Yeah. That's the dream. >> Yeah. It's just like going out in a blaze of glory basically. And then or like dying out in like the you know like that that picture of uh Gossling bleeding out in the snow, >> right? like the dream dream snow bleedout spot. Anyways, I just uh I'm like, man, I'd rather just >> bored of these. >> Well, look, it's like it's like I go to Norway and I get into a a some sort of criminal enterprise. What's the worst thing that happens to me? I get to live better than I'm living here. [laughter] What? That's just where my mind goes. Uh, you know, but >> work smarter, not harder. >> The inverse El Salvador. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Holy [ __ ] Well, I think the crimes that are being committed in El Salvador are probably dramatically worse than in Norway. >> Mhm. >> You know, they were like chopping people up into pieces and stuff, >> but did you follow this uh Citrini analyst number three story? >> Um, no. You didn't see this? >> No. No. Have you guys heard about this analyst number three? >> No. What's this? >> Oh, dude, this is amazing. This is just like a guy doing a legendary thing. So the straight of hormuz is blocked and there's the war part of it but then there's the financial part of it. You've seen like oil prices going up down the markets are swinging and so there's this research firm called Catrini. They do like they basically do research reports sell them to hedge funds and so the hedge fund guys want information. If they get better information than they're getting from the news or from the you know the the newspaper the next day that's worth you know millions and millions of dollars to them. So Satrini they're trying to figure out what the hell's going on with this blockade. And so this guy has this idea, high agency story here for you. One of the guys in the office is like, "What if I just go?" And they're like, "What do you mean? What do you go?" He's like, "What if I just go to the to the straight and I'll just count the boats?" Like, "What do you count?" He's like, "I'll just see like how many are going through and we'll know if it's like blocked because basically there were people trying to figure out is it blocked, is it not blocked?" And the gas crude oil prices were going parabolic and then they were crashing day day over day. And so they had to figure out what was going on. So this guy basically one of their analysts, they call him analyst number three, and he wrote this field blog. It just I see this. It goes and I I read this and this sucks me into the story. He goes, "The front desk informed me there's two gentlemen from the C downstairs to ask me questions. C in the Gulf is like the CIA." I checked my phone in a safe, grabbed the burner um because they had seen tweets about analyst number three. Thanks a lot, James. And then it says, "I went downstairs in my pajamas and slippers. There there's a piece piece of obssec you learn when when you're an Arab speaker. If things get sticky, you only speak English because Arabic opens the door you don't want opened. The possibility that you're a spy, a sympathizer, blah blah blah." basically play dumb. So I go downstairs and I say, "Hello guys, how are you? I speak English." The hotel receptionist, the same man I've been chatting with in Arabic all day, turned to the agents and goes, "This guy speaks perfect Arabic." And so the this guy blogged his entire thing. So he basically left the US, went to the Middle East. They show his briefcase of like what he took. It's [laughter] it's pretty hilarious. So this is what he took for his field trip. His anxiety. >> He's got two two Zins. He he brought cigars. Uh he brought, you know, pack of clothes. And then he had a like um a pair of meta recording glasses. >> And so he goes and this guy makes it all the way. So he he gets to like Oman, he bribes a guy, they bring him in and they're like he's crossing the thing. They're like, "You're not trying to do any journalism or anything, are you?" He's like, "Journalism? No, I'm I'm an adventurer explorer. What you crazy?" And they're like, they check his bag. They don't notice that the Ray-B bands are the glasses one or the camera ones. He gets through. He bribes this guy to take him on a mini like a paddle boat to get into the straight and he has footage of himself on the straight smoking a cigar watching like the oil one of the oil tankers that got attacked and counting the other boats and he realized that the all the mainstream media was reporting that the straight was closed. He's like, "Dude, I'm here. I see the I see them going through. It's not fully closed." And he they were figuring out what was going on. Turns out like actually the Iranians were checking like are if you're not US affiliated and you brought you pay us a toll we'll let you through and that's why like there hadn't been this huge oil shock because actually the tankers are getting through but nobody knew everybody was using these like the tracking data from the boats but he's like >> he's like >> some of the boats aren't going to be tracked. >> Yeah. They were just like hey watch this turn it off like we don't want to be tracked they don't want us saying that we're going through so no problem turn that [ __ ] off and they would go through. And so this is this epic story of this guy who made it back. He got thrown he got like thrown in jail for a couple days and he like got out and uh you know >> because of the CIA. >> No, he's just part of a research >> because he got caught because of that. >> They held him and they were like >> we're going to check you out and then they couldn't find anything. >> The C is the Middle Eastern equivalent of the C. And they popped him. That actually that bag is the male equivalent of an anxiety bag. >> Yeah, that's what that's a full pack of Cubans, two Zins, and a pair of pants. >> Uh don't don't trust verify. Well, that is basically someone using dark tourism to benefit from a capitalist way, similar to Lord Miles. Do you see that Lord Miles got called out by Coffeezilla? >> No. No. No. Wow. So, Lord Miles has done some kind of rug pull that's to do with him and Poly Market that he was going to do a a 40-day fast and that he bet just before he got picked up by the police, the local police of wherever he was, someone had put a huge position that he was going to lose. And it turns out if you trace that wallet back, it's somebody that knows him and then he thinks that he put the bet on and then got the police to go. It was like a [ __ ] mess. But anyway, that guy might as well be Lord Miles. Wow. >> Speaking of the Gulf CIA, I uh I got a story about a time I accidentally did a a CIA field strategy, so to speak, if you guys want to hear it. When I was in college in Santa Barbara, my buddy and I were absolutely hammered, just wasted out of our minds. And we had just run from a cab and uh some other shenanigans had occurred. And we got back to my my apartment which was on the second floor of the the spot that but it was on a hill. So it out the window was like a huge um it was it was like probably 60 yards to a pavement to to a parking lot behind a Chase Bank. And we were hammered and we at this place the electricity had gone out so all the the food in the fridge was bad and it smelled like [ __ ] So we just started throwing it all out the window because we thought it was funny. And then we started throwing bottles out the window and then like some furniture and stuff. And uh somebody somebody called the police and we're sitting there. We're all [ __ ] up and we just hear dude doo Santa Barbara police open up. And we're like, "Oh [ __ ] dude. We the cops." And he looks at me and he's like, "Dude, get naked." And I was like, "What?" He's like, "Trust me." And I was like, "All right." So we get butt naked and I'm like, "Uh, we're definitely going to [ __ ] jail." So I I immediately went to the bathroom because taking a [ __ ] in jail sucks. So, I was like, I'm going to go force out a turd. >> Wow. >> So, I'm in the bathroom and all I hear is this like thump noise and then I hear the door open. I hear a creek like and and it's just a cop and he goes, "What the [ __ ] What are you doing?" And I hear I hear like feet stumble around and and then I hear my buddy go, "Sorry, officer. I must have forgotten my pants." And the cops are like, "What the [ __ ] are you talking about?" And uh they're like, "Put some [ __ ] clothes on." And so the cops come grab me and uh >> naked >> and they real well they thought they realized that we were two gay dudes in an argument. >> So we faked a homosexual domestic violence situation and they were like they were like oh [ __ ] the these are two gay dudes and uh >> going at it. >> Yeah. So they just ended up making us go clean it up cuz they felt they felt [laughter] bad because they thought that well and my buddy was a lot bigger than me too. So now I'm realizing telling this story that they probably thought I was just getting beat up by this guy. [laughter] But anyways, um, so years later, uh, I've told this story a couple times before to people and you know, it's funny. Haha. But years later, I find out from this guy, Jack Karaku, CIA dude. Yeah. That this is like an old CIA strategy that they employ all the time. I didn't even know. Play the play the video here. >> Headquarters says, "We want you to pretend that you're gay." I said, "Oh, come on. No, we really need the information. You got to pretend that you're gay. I said, "Okay, I'll do it. I'll do it for Uncle S." So, I called and I said, "Hey, I have two tickets to this show and I was hoping maybe you'd be free. Maybe we'll grab some sushi afterwards." He said, "Yeah, I'd love to." So, we go to the show. He thoroughly enjoyed it. And we go for sushi afterwards. Then we go out again and he says, "Why don't you go over to my place some night and I'll I'll make dinner." I said, "Great." So, I go over to his place. He made a lovely dinner. And then I thought, "Well, I have to invite him to my place." So, I told my wife what you're going to have to like get out. So, Sheila, I made dinner. I removed all the pictures of us together and we had just gotten married. So, we had like our wedding picture up and everything. At the dinner, he leaned in to kiss me and I instinctively backed off and he said, "Oh my god, I'm sorry. I thought you're gay." And I said, "Oh, no. I am gay." I'm not into hairy guys. And he's like, "Oh, okay." I said, "I'm sorry. I think you're great. I'm I'm not feeling it because no." And uh I think there's another there's I don't remember if it was him, but there was another person who used an example of faking they were gay to like get out of trouble. But yeah, just a that's another life hack for you. >> Just get naked. >> Yeah. I mean, could you not just appear gay rather than be naked? Cuz who fights naked? >> Two gay dudes banging. [laughter] >> Okay. Okay. Okay. But the idea that you were so small that they thought this guy's a worldrenowned power bottom. I can't believe I'm getting [laughter] he's getting [ __ ] pounded from every angle. >> Oh god. [clears throat] Yeah, it's uh Yeah, it's not a good look looking back on it. >> Why have you got trash in your truck? >> Well, I got another life hack for you, Chris. Um remember to take out your trash cans. I Yeah, I got a couple bags of garbage in the back of my truck that he commented on when I pulled up. And um he's like, "Why do you have like four bags of garbage?" And I was like, well, I forgot to take out the trash two weeks in a row, so there's just a bunch of >> using the bed to be carrying around >> as additional. >> Yeah, it's just in the bed of the >> surplus. >> There's a dumpster behind a movie theater that I'm going to go throw it out in after this, actually. Thanks for reminding me. >> Welcome. You could do a full season, three months like >> just 20 bags of trash in the truck. >> All right, so you have three life facts. That's pretty good. >> Yeah, three life hacks. >> You you do it for all of us. >> One, um, Israeli conspiracy and I'm addicted to That's what I'm bringing to the table today. >> Did you have a life hack? That was good. >> Oh, go on. >> Well, you know, the the first ever series that I did on this show was life hacks. So, uh there's like a thousand that I've got to pick from, but the one that I've been using the most, especially because I just got back from tour was in Australia, New Zealand, and Bali, uh is an app called Flighty. So, Flighty connects with your email and when you book flights, it automatically pulls it over and it tells you everything that's going on with your flight, what gate you're going out of, where your plane is inbound, where it's going to go when you're on the journey as well. It also tracks everything. So, it pre-downloads the map so that when you're flying in the air, even without Wi-Fi, it knows sort of how long the journey is going to be. Can give you information about what the wait time is going to be like at your future destination, connection times, gate to gate, what uh carousel your baggage is going to be at. It lives in just a little island at the top, you know, the floating island thing at the top of your iPhone and it just [ __ ] rules, dude. Like the number of times that there's been some last minute [ __ ] change and because I'm not watching the board or I've got my AirPods in, you're just in and out doing your thing. You It's just on your phone. It's quicker than the app. There was one flight that got diverted from Austin cuz Gale Force winds it got diverted to Houston and I I was recording with Andrew Schultz that day. It's like [ __ ] like I need to get back. This better not be late. Blah blah blah. And I thought it was great. And then the plane just did like that, took up again as it was coming in to land. And I was like, oh, it must be coming back around for another one. Before the pilot even came over the Tanoi, it updated and said like, you're now basically you're landing in Houston. And I was like, so [snorts] in some ways it can be disappointing before everybody else knows, but uh it's [ __ ] great flighty and it's like 30 bucks a year and you can have friends on it as well. You can add friends flights to it. So if you've got a your MS is flying in, you don't need to do it's it's [ __ ] epic. A quick aside. Look, you know sleep matters, but let's be real, most nights you're probably not getting the sort of sleep that's actually restorative. Eight Sleeps Pod 5 fixes that. It's a smart cover that you throw over the top of your mattress that actively cools or heats each side of the bed up to 20°. They've even added a temperature regulating duvet and pillowcase, so you and your partner can sleep at your preferred temperatures covered head to toe like some temperature controlled mummy. Plus, it's got upgraded sensors that run health checks when you're asleep, tracking things like abnormal heartbeats and breathing issues and sudden HRV changes. There's a built-in speaker for white noise. The autopilot feature learns your sleep patterns, makes real-time adjustments to improve your sleep. It even detects when you're snoring, and lifts your head a few inches to help you breathe better. That is why Eight Sleep is clinically proven to add up to an hour of quality sleep per night. And best of all, they have a 30-day sleep trial, so you can buy it and sleep on it for 29 nights. And if you don't like it, they will just give you your money back. Plus, they ship internationally. Right now, you can get up to $350 off the pod5 by going to the link in the description below or heading to eightsleep.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's ei.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout. My my uh my life hack at the minute is um it's more kind of a a philosophical stance to some extent. I think of a lot of gibberish that comes up where it's probably in the last 20 years there's this particular discourse that happens online but also in books where you'll see they'll make a point and then they'll go so this study says or studies say and I think what happens for me for a while now previously I would default to whatever this person's about to say now is completely true but often my new default is whatever this person is about to say now is complete horshit. Um cuz first off, my friend Billy made this great point of do you know anybody who's been in a study? Um then have you actually ever inspected a lot of these studies? So I think previously what people used to do nine out of nine out of 10 times they would believe the study's true and one out of 10 is gibberish. I actually think the policy is much better the other way that nine out of 10 studies that you hear about particularly psychological studies. Guess what? Physics doesn't need a study. Physics goes here's how it works. And you want to always opt like it's kind of the Deutsch argument. You always want to go for good explanations rather than studies of site grads with people that had a specific hypothesis they wanted to confirm beforehand. And you you'll often see these things that go viral on Twitter that get four million views. It's like 15 participants of like college [snorts] males that are then making like then the Daily Mail covers it, the Telegraph covers it. >> Sweeping generalizations. >> It's one it's one giant scam. The other one is um my favorite one is um science says or sciencebacked or trust the science. And my new default is if somebody says this, they're about to say something that's completely unscientific because by definition Oh, sorry about that. By definition, if something is sciencebacked, um I didn't. There we go. Um if something is science, if something is >> [ __ ] tonic has researchbacked ingredients on this research back a little bit. [laughter] I can say firsthand this [ __ ] definitely works. Um, >> well I guess I guess the question is but then actually investigate what the research is essentially saying which most of us we just default to this is true. So, I read uh Adam Mastriani, our experimental history. Everyone needs to subscribe on Substack [ __ ] rules. And um he posted today there was a wonderful one two-parter living fossils that Rob Kursban does. And uh experimental history had these two things about the replication crisis. And uh Adam's entire point is that psychological theories don't ever be killed. They just become embarrassing. So, um, power posing been completely disproven, but has now just been sort of retconed into it's like expansive posture science and stuff. They've just renamed it. Uh, growth mindset, total [ __ ] Totally does not replicate. Uh, ego depletion, like willpower stuff. Total total [ __ ] Does not replicate. But >> what about [ __ ] maxing? >> [ __ ] maxing actually is at the forefront of cutting psychological science. [laughter] >> If it doesn't replicate, do a 360. >> Moonwalk out of that. [laughter] The problem with the replication stuff is that it goes back to the conversation we had around genetics that actually um some of this stuff may work for certain people depending on their specific genetic set. What you may have is 10% it really really works for and 90% it doesn't do anything which is a way more fascinating conversation. Um, but as soon as you just default to like it feels like I have a point that disagrees with Gary now and I'm just going to say well studies say and I've won and there's never any like critical conversation around well can you explain the specific variables here that causes this outcome. It's just studies say, "Oh, let me tell you about the >> increased increased skepticism." Is that what you're saying? As a yes, as a whole, >> including around >> all the way up. I mean, >> I think the other side of that, the life hack is use this all the time because there's for every one George who's skeptical, >> what out of a hundred people, how many have your stance? >> Oh, it's the other way. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's going to be 99. So, actually like the hack is there's actually start saying study say when there's no study at all and everybody will take you very seriously. It's similar to how people reference mainstream media even though like you said with the the straight right >> how there were still ships going through there and the media was saying that they weren't. >> Yeah. >> It's the same thing, right? Where there where somebody instead of referencing a study, they're like, "Well, Fox News said or CNN or whatever [ __ ] people >> appeal to authority." Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Dude, speaking of which, I that actually ties into the other thing I sent you. Uh did you guys hear about the Stop Nick Shirley act in California? Dude, this is crazy. So there was um >> cuz he's trying to do the same thing he did in Minnesota in California, right? >> He needs to do that in Puerto Rico. Dude, seriously, >> I mean, if you list the places that >> So California has this act now. Who's Who's >> This is it. This is the bill right here. They basically put put together this legislation [snorts] that says it's called the Stop Nick Shirley Act. >> Wait, is that like a draft? Existing law prohibits a person, business or association from knowingly publicly posting or publicly disclosing or distributing on internet websites or on social media the personal information or image of any designated health care services patient provider or assistant or other individuals residing at the same home address with the intent to incite a third person to cause imminent great bodily harm to the person identified in the posting or display or to a co-resident of that person as specified or to threaten the person identified in the posting or display or a co-resident of that person as specified. So it's basically an extreme fascist bill that they're trying to pass to prevent people from exposing fraud. >> So you think that they getting out ahead of having exposed in California what was exposed in Minnesota >> and by making it essentially this kind of investigation illegal. >> Yeah. And that's um of interest to me given all the the financial stuff I've exposed down in Puerto Rico. But the on a if you extrapol like that and map it on to freedom of speech as a whole, uh, this is a big problem. I mean, I I don't know what >> this [ __ ] is [ __ ] gnarly, dude. Having to read this thing like the Here we go. >> This guy. Yeah, he explains it a little bit better here. It warns that it would restrict the release of investigative videos and impose penalties on watchd dogss who expose fraud. Uh, it's a I mean, I don't really believe in the two-party system. I think they're all just too everybody's full of [ __ ] But it is a Democrat that put this out and of course there's you know the backlash from this guy is probably a Republican. >> So sounds like what they're saying is when he exposes the Somali learning centers that then creates sort of hostile potential violence against the Somali people. So in order to protect threats of violence against immigrants, uh here's this act. >> Right. Right. Right. which is totally like a load of [ __ ] because the real way you would protect from somebody being harassed like that is to stop the fraud in the first place from happening. >> Yeah. Or just separately prevent like violence in the way that we prevent assault. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm just saying that Yeah, there's a number of other ways to handle it, but yeah, it's crazy, right? >> Yeah. >> I um I was looking at this the other day. I'm I'm kind of interested in how it plays out. you know, >> you're you're you do a lot of investigative journalism, right? You were down in uh Palisades almost immediately after the fire, exposing a ton of stuff around FEMA. Uh you've done the Puerto Rico thing. What other like big ones have you done recently? >> Um well, after going to Puerto Rico, I I kind of uh was I shelved the the deep dive investigations because it's so much work to look through all the just everything, dude. It was also really it was [ __ ] up, man. Like people in Puerto Rico don't have We We met a guy who doesn't have a [ __ ] roof still. >> Wow. >> He He hasn't had electricity for eight years. It's crazy, dude. I You got to watch it. I don't know if I ever since you didn't send me this one. >> Yeah, it's um it's insane. I I in theory I mean I can give you the the layout real fast. Basically, in 2016, Congress with Obama's approval signed off on a financial board that more or less acts like the shadow government of Puerto Rico now. And they've funneled around $2 billion of taxpayer money, Puerto Rican taxpayer money off the island to Wall Street consultants, executives, uh, and attorneys to consult on the bankruptcy down there because the whole island is bankrupt. And part of that process is to resolve the PREPA bankruptcy, which is the uh, Puerto Rican Electric Power Authority. It's the government power company. And then it was privatized with this company, Luma, and yada yada yada. The power is horribly unreliable down there. It's one of the most expensive in the entire country. And uh they're basically having money funneled off the island like and they're all more or less connected to Wall Street. But it's crazy. And the reason I bring that up in relation to this is because um you know the Somalian daycare thing, sure there's there's some some stuff going on there, but Puerto Rico has been basically getting [ __ ] on forever. And I think this is possibly an even worse situation that's going on down there. And they just revoked some Transparency Act down there too recently in the past like four or five months. >> They're going to try and get out ahead of people that are doing investigative journalism. >> I mean, that's what it seems like to me. They don't want they want it to be more difficult for people to to foyer request stuff. Essentially, like one of the things they revoked on the Transparency Act down there in Puerto Rico was when you when you request information, it doesn't show who you are specifically, right? to to the to the people that you're requesting it from. But they they're changing that so that they can see. So they'll be like, "Oh, Gary Fast, the guy that's been talking a bunch of [ __ ] about us is requesting this information. We're going to, you know, deny that." >> Yep. >> It's crazy. But this is similar to that. And I think this is actually >> branded as the Transparency Act cuz who can who can say >> it was it was existing legislation that >> equals good. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There. Yeah. Um but yeah, this is this is crazy. I don't even know what else to say about it cuz not much has transpired. But in my field of work, it I mean that would that would basically prevent me from doing my job. Uh I have a quote that I love. This is a little more positive. I feel like we've had some some conspiracy, some darkness, uh some some getting in trouble. >> I want to bring a little little uh positivity here. All right. So, saw this quote from Blake Makoski, who created Tom's Shoes. Uh, I don't know if you guys have seen this, but he he has this. He's like, I've had this on the wall of every office. So, he says, "A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play, his labor and his leisure, his mind and his body, his education and recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he's doing, and leaves others to determine if he is working or playing. To him, he always appears to be doing both." M >> and I just like that to me has just been a very useful um I don't know guidepost or like oh yeah like that is the highest calling if you yourself basically don't differentiate between your work and your play or you know are you is this uh is this something that you have to do or you should do or you want to do the more those blend together and the less you sort of bucket things I think the more you solve the problem of balance that I think nobody feels like they have and so I just thought this was awesome and I'm going to put this up in my office wall. >> Well, this seems similar to what Michael was talking about of the childlike thing. You remember on the first episode that we did and he was said be he quoted some scripture he's like be childlike my children or some some something like that. I think one of the problems that you have is working for yourself sounds great because it sounds like choose whenever you want to work but for most people what it results in being is just work all the time because there's no one to tell you to stop. And a great idea to think about if this doesn't feel like play to me, scrutinize it and maybe try and get rid of whatever I can from this particular area of my life. But when you're compelled by, oh well, I just want to be more be more successful and more wellknown, that is rewarding in and of itself, but it's not the type of reward that you want. So, you need to almost be skeptical and discerning in the rewards that you get, too. It feels like play, but it might actually be just shallow juvenile status seeking. Or it might be me uh playing at the game of accumulating money when I already have enough. It's that line from James Clear where he says, um, if you already live a good lifestyle and you sacrifice it in order to make more money, by definition, it's a bad trade, >> right? >> And I think sometimes you people are bad at distinguishing, determining what isn't is not play. what isn't is not just more like limbic rewards. Does that make sense? >> So there's there's this book that talks that I'm reading talks exactly about this called the score. You guys ever heard of this book? It's basically u this guy who's a phil he's a philosophy professor but he he loved games growing up. He always plays games and he he uses games as this analogy and I think in general uh a far more important thing in life than being a good player is picking a good game. >> Uh because it's very easy to be you know you were talking about Joey Chestnut earlier, right? Um, and like you know the philosopher Joey Ch, [laughter] >> no knock on him, but like just generally choosing to be a competitive eater. >> It's not the best game to play in life, right? Like you could choose many things to try to be great at. >> There are some that are better and worse. >> Every game comes with a scoreboard. The scoreboard is very unique in that it basically programs you. It rewires your mind for what you now want. >> The game dictates what you want. >> Um, right? Because it says that's how you win. This is the scoreboard. So therefore, I've desired >> appropriate >> and then it tells you who you need and then it changes your identity. Who do you need to be to win this game? So you play Call of Duty, you better be a psychopathic murderer, right? You got to be ruthless. You play charades, you better be a team player, a great communicator. You play poker, you better be uh great at the art of deception. And so the game you choose will not only choose for you what you want, it'll choose your motivation. It'll end up dictating your identity. Who do you need to be to win that game? So he talks about like you know he was a phil he was became a philosopher >> or philosophy professor because he loved answering the big questions about life. That's what got him into it. Then he got there and he realized there's a ranking system for the the professors nationwide. And how do you go up? So he's a competitive person by nature like many of us are. So he started trying to win the game. Now he had a scoreboard. The scoreboard said in order to get more points you have to write more peer-reviewed published articles about these niche topics. So then he spends two years winning that game and then basically feeling miserable because he's like this is not what he enjoys about philosophy. So he made himself miserable winning the game. He talks about how there's something called value capture. Value capture is basically when the game gives you the metric that um is super simplified, easy to digest, but it may not have been what you wanted out of this. Um so for example in live like we're you're we're on YouTube, right? YouTube gives you one big score views. You can make a life-changing episode that gets half the views of another episode, but it doesn't know how to measure life-changing. It just measures views >> and it's going to keep giving you that metric. And I mean, let's be honest, how many YouTubers don't just respond to views, right? Like, it's like a very, very powerful motivation. Um, because it's in your face. Everybody sees it. And that's the scoreboard that determines success or failure in that game. >> I've got I mean, we've we've like spoke about this hours and Yeah. This is one of our favorite [ __ ] You hit one of our trap trap cards. Like there's a weirdly part of the um thoughts I was thinking about this week was going down like how you know that Marshall Mchu line that we like shape our tools then our shapers great example of nature ner used to write by a hand and then his eyesight began to go so he started to write in a typewriter and his writing completely changed he went way shorter way punchier like he almost completely changed as an individual and I've been thinking about that with a lot of these tools where so I would like one of my life hacks at the minute is what I call boom scrolling. So rather than doom scrolling, I go on a treadmill at like 15 incline three in I've got share believe on loop playing. I'm spinning around. I'm having a [ __ ] great I'm just sending links to people. >> If you if if you if you are either in his contacts high on the top of his list of iMessage contacts recently cuz he's got massive recency bias so he only sends it to the people that he can see. And if you're in Lifetime on South Lamar and you walk downstairs and you see him, it's you with something from the 80s, some hair metal or like some like big pop star from the 80s and he's just furiously sending [ __ ] links to >> That's how social media I think is supposed to be consumed. If you're at 130 uh beat Yeah. If you're 130 like heart rate per minute, you just like forget about like all the like new stuff goes and I'm just in like these holes like finding stuff. But one of the reflections you've managed to find a social media flow state. >> Yeah. Yeah. slow state for social media boom scrolling. It's it's coming back. Um so one of my one of my actual realizations when I was in this high was one thing you when you become when you're in like a flow state or when you're more mindful you begin like the a lot of meditators describe it as the frame rate of reality completely slows down. So it's kind of like going from a a standard definition TV to a HD where everything's a bit clearer, everything's a bit slower. And I started to notice this thing in my head that I was really embarrassed about that when I would scroll, I'd see a tweet or I'd see a post and there's this little thing in me that just looks at the views it gets and then like determines if I'm going to consume it or my reaction beforehand. And it's almost like imagine what we've created with this mimemetic algorithm. Imagine before you ever heard like a piece of music or you ever tasted a bit of food. It's like like people clapping or people going bit [ __ ] that's your whole you don't actually ever experience social media content. Um so one of the two big changes I'd like to see is one could I just turn off all engagement metrics and I'd be fascinated to run a study um and compare the two and see like the the impact that that would have and then the second one cuz I've thought a lot about this which is your point Sean around the depth metrics that it's very hard for us to measure depth. It's very easy for us to measure width is right now one of the problems with social media is you can only kind of pay with a like that's the currency which and then I if you have a thought experiment if you imagine the world where the only currency was $1 like a $1 bill and you can't pay more than $1, what would you have >> the dollar store theory >> you you'd have dollar store everywhere means you wouldn't have Michelin star restaurants you wouldn't have like luxury brands you wouldn't have all these stuff that you'd those are actually [ __ ] examples cuz I hate them but you know stuff that you would actually want to pay more money for. And I thought even just as simple as like why X don't just implement like a golden like where I only have one per week. It's completely meaningless but I have one per week and I press it and then I can also go on the golden like feed. I can go this is the thing that Sean says out of everything he's consumed this week is the best. I think >> the change you would have in terms of content huge. The worst thing is that you you proposed this to me over dinner what five years ago or something probably and I was like [ __ ] stupid idea and then YouTube brought in hype. We've seen hype. >> No. What is that? >> If you're a channel with under 100,000 subscribers, you as a user are allowed, I think you're allocated about a thousand hype points per week and you can only spend it on videos that are high performing. I think it might be videos over 100K on channels less than 100K, something like that. But it's uh like nonfungeible, the the limited, right? So, the Bitcoin of your likes, right? And it's [ __ ] great. And I find myself using it on videos that I really want to and here's a small creator that's nailed it with some great documentary explaining why the the straight of horm is hard to get through whatever the [ __ ] And I'm like I want to send the the hype thing. Michael Smoke is had one video that broke through and I wanted to do it for his thing. So >> yes, you're right. Other thing McNamara fallacy. You familiar with that? >> No. >> Okay. So uh McNamara was the guy that was in charge of working out what was going on with the troops in the Vietnam War. and his issue was that he was measuring the wrong uh metrics. So the Magnamara fallacy or quantitative fallacy is the mistake of making decisions based solely on metrics while ignoring qualitative unmeasurable factors. Named after US Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, it assumes that if something cannot be easily measured, it is not important or does not exist. So the issue that the Magnamara fallacy had was that uh enemy body count metric is to taken to be a precise and objective measure of the success or failure of the Vietnam war which it wasn't at all. It was domestic casualties, domestic injuries and the far more important what's the vibe? What's the tone around it? Yes. >> The soul. >> Yeah. Precisely. So uh the line is we end up intending to uh measure what matters but instead what we can measure just ends up mattering. >> Yes. >> And everything else is disregarded. So you could like I say how um obviously golden like idea like is there any ways you guys have like for yourselves whether it's for the actual platforms themselves or just for you as an individual have found a way out of this? There was one I heard. I didn't do this, but Hormosi had a a thing with this where he starts getting popular on YouTube. And then he hires team and they're like, "Hey, let's let's punch this up. Let's do this video. Let's do this video. Oh, people love this. Do what you're eating. Do what you did. How you guys met, do this, right?" He started as a business channel and then he's doing everything. And of course, things that are, you know, there's not a lot of people who want to understand how to do better cold calls in sales, right? Like that's a super niche topic, but like don't be broke is a bigger topic. And then bigger than that is going to be harsh truths about being a man, whatever, right? Like, so those are pop. Those get two million views. So why make those shitty 20,000 views about, you know, um, how to how to improve your salesunnel or whatever. But he realized like, well, what was my mission? My mission was like, I'm like, I love business. I want to share what I know about business. And so what he did was, uh, he started selling his book for 99 cents and he put it in this bio, right? So he's basically just use the assumption of instead of measuring the success of these videos based on views, let's just measure it on book sales. Like presumably >> only a business person, the type of people I'm making content for, would buy a business book about sales or about $100 million offers. Only somebody who liked the video and trusted me more from this video would go and convert. So, it's like let me create my own like it's like people who do their own um sampling like or their own uh polling uh like I don't know if you heard about this before the election but there was a guy who did the who made a huge bet on poly market that Trump was going to going to win. I don't know if you guys remember this some French guy made like $50 million and the reason why was the mainstream media polls were showing like a neckand-neck race and he did um what's called like something like the friends and neighbors poll. You can pull this up, Jared. But like I think the premise was if you ask people who they're going to vote for, they'll tell you, but like some people hedge and there was like closeted Trump voters. But if you ask them who do you think your neighbor's going to vote for, they'll give you a different question, a different answer. >> This is like the Keynesian beauty contest. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And so he used the data from he commissioned his own poll which cost him like a few hundred thousand dollars or whatever and he ended up making4 or $50 million on a bet because he understood the actual probability of success was far different than the the priced odds on these market on these markets. >> So what you're saying that Alex did was he found a metric that was more important and more accurate than all of the other metric. He brought his own he brought his own metric to to YouTube which he had to hack around, right, to figure out how to do >> James James Smith does this. So, he's got his business channel, which is the the the other thing. He basically shut down his main one, which has got half a million subs. And he'll put a video up that gets 20,000 plays and make $50,000 because the people that go onto that video are precisely his target market at a high conversion and they they've got some special tracking link that's for each different video. So, he knows, oh, this one video because it's only this link in that one video and it's pinned in the comments or whatever it might be. and he can he's now optimizing for the outcome that he wants. Now, the problem is that you then start to optimize for book sales, >> right? >> And what optimizing for book sales because you're always optimizing for something unless you're optimizing for vibe or optimizing for feeling. And that's what the, you know, to break the fourth wall, that's the reason that I wanted to do this. I don't know if these episodes will ever be bigger than me sitting down with MCO. I think they've kind of weirdly got the legs to be. But the reason I wanted to do it is cuz I just thought it would be fun. And I think that optimizing for your your the quote on the wall of your man or the childlike joy or the you know good hang vibe. >> It's yeah knowing when to use metrics when to avoid them. And then also then you said then about studies like how much of this is you and then how much of this is the why. >> I have to give you credit. You did this when you released your high agency thing. I was the one who went on similar web and looked at the traffic to your blog. I was like dude there's a million people have read your blog. You're like, "Really?" >> I'm like, "Don't what do your analytics say?" That's a similar web. He's like, "I didn't have Google Analytics in." >> Yeah. >> And I was like, >> "You're a marketing guy. How do you not have it in? You intentionally didn't have it in." >> Yes. Yes. Well, even that bit of advice there of like do a blog post. Like blog like blog posts are essentially the UK or the mainstream media. You know what I mean? Like it's like the ultimate likeal undervalue. Um like don't do it. You can't link to it. And at that time Twitter completely shadowban links. But then yeah, I think doing something fundamentally different. And this is the challenge of when do you know and I struggle with this a lot. When you're a bit of a weird guy, which [ __ ] all four of us are probably, right? Um when do you know that you're kind of on to something? You're on the edge or when are you just a bit batshit mental? >> And that and knowing that is a [ __ ] that's you got to have good friends, I think. Um as well as sometimes just balls and you make mistakes. >> No, you have to ignore. You just always assume you're on to something. >> Always 100% assume you're on delusional cut. >> This is the difference. You know what I mean? That's our GDP. >> This side of the table and this side of the table. >> That's the GDP gap right there. >> America if you're on to something. Come on. >> Really? Really? It is. >> I'm always on to something, dude. >> Well, next thing you know, I'm too sure. Maybe I'll wait two decades. >> That's a metratic society where we've got an old school aris aristocratic society. >> Exactly. And also the other thing is that we can't raise out of our status. You're going to be middle class for the rest of your life in the eyes of British people. I'm going to be workingass for the rest of my life in the eyes of British people. It doesn't matter what I do. It doesn't matter how many plays I get, how much money I make. When I go back home, they know where I went to school. They know what postcode my parents lived in. They know what my accent's like. It's like I think that that puts a kind of cap on how much people think that they how how big their dreams should be and how much faith they should have in themselves. This is Alander Bon talked about this. He's like, "People that come from in the UK working-class backgrounds, they're probably not going to try and rock the boat because that's not their place. It's not your place to do that. America's like nent. It's [ __ ] 2 years old, right? In the grand scheme of things, we got a thousand years of uninterrupted, uninvaded history, right? Apart from some planes in [ __ ] like August of 1940, that's it, right? And then [ __ ] Rudolph Hess when he decided to try and land in Scot. Do you know that story? Rudolph H one of Oh. Oh gee. Do you want to tell it? >> You You tell it better than me. >> Okay. So, um Rudolph Hess was one of the >> That was the most English [ __ ] ever >> in a >> You want to tell it? No, you tell it better than me. [laughter] Back on. >> Rudolph Hess was a German fighter ace in World War I and he then becomes one of the inner circle for Hitler in World War II. He starts to slowly lose favor toward the end of the war. or I think 43 44 he starts to lose favor with Hitler and he sees himself being shunted to the side a little bit. So he decides that he's going to do something uh courageous and heroic that's going to save the war and also bring him back into the inner circle with regards to Hitler because he's got this sort of win this group of sick fans around him. He's got Himler, he's got Gerbal, he's got all of these guys that are around him and uh Rudolph Hess has been shunted out to the side. The Hess gets a two seat plane, one of the long range bomber planes that the Germans were using. He gets it modified so they can be flown by one person as opposed to two. He gets additional fuel tanks strapped to it and he flies it without telling anybody in the middle of the night from Germany over to Scotland because he once met some aristocratic Scottish nobleman and thinks because he's got this perspective of Brits that it's all one Renaissance Bridgetton novel that he is going to know Winston Churchill and the king and he's going to be able to or the and is going to be able to petition Britain to uh have an armistice to put down their arms. Uh so he leaves a note for the furer and leaves a note for his wife and just sets off. Now he doesn't know where he is when he gets to Scotland because it's dark. By the time he gets to Scotland, it's dark and he can't see where he wanted to land. He can't see the [ __ ] palace or the house of this this nobleman. So he just pulls the ejector seat, lands in a farmer's field, lands in a farmer's field, very quickly gets picked up by the British military. They find out this is the fourth ranking Nazi in the entire Reich. Immediately take him into custody. Doesn't get to see the king. Doesn't get to see the queen. Doesn't get to see anybody. Doesn't get to see anybody at all. Doesn't get anywhere close to the nobleman he meant to go out in there and see. However, the British now have the fourth ranking Nazi in the world. And Hitler is furious. Absolutely [ __ ] furious. Like apoplelectic apparently. And uh it just goes to show I think like first off the weird incentives and the way that people respond to a tight sphere of uh social circle with power struggles that keep on going on. It causes people to do crazy. It's being in a relationship with a hot cold girlfriend, right? You're just doing [ __ ] insane thing. You're like throwing rocks at her window holding a boom box with a mixtape and then the next day you're naked [ __ ] getting, you know, being beaten up by her or whatever. And >> [laughter] >> uh >> I told you that story in confidence. >> And um uh the the other thing is that people still have this kind of archaic interpretation of what British life is like, especially back in the day. >> He should have done a 360 and then moved out of there. [laughter] >> Have you ever um heard of the story of Churchill and Hitler getting dinner? >> This episode is brought to you by Whoop. According to my Whoop, I've tracked nearly 2,000 days of my life. And the thing that still gets me is that I could have predicted almost every bad day before it happens. That's because Whoop gives you a complete picture of your health every single day. Your sleep, your workouts, your recovery, your breathing, your heart rate, even your steps. And over time, you get to see what's working and what isn't. And the Whoop 5.0 is the best version yet. It's 7% smaller. You get more than 2 weeks of battery life from a single charge. 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And one of the fascinating things that you when you really study history is how blurry it is at the time. So I always use the example of the Roman Empire of you can kind I think it's like 476 AD is when the Roman Empire fell but if you ask well when did the people recognize it fell and it's a bit like the same with the British Empire like when did the British Empire fall it's like you could point to certain parts of World War I you could go further back you could go to World War II you could go to 60s7s whenever you want to go to it um when do people actually recognize the thing it's always later and even like Hitler like Churchill who obviously ends up becoming Hitler's like an nemesis was intrigued by a dinner with him. So there was this guy called Ernst Putsy Hanglesfagan. You can probably search that one Jared and good luck. Um and he um he he was like a socialite in Germany who wanted to arrange the meeting and Churchill basically said listen he was really concerned about communism at the time but he was also concerned with Hitler's anti-semitism. So Putsy says well come through I'll introduce you to Adolf. You guys will get on really well. Churchill turns up. He's got his whole family there and kind of chatting to Putsy. He's still not here. Still not here. So they kind of have dinner. Hitler's not there. And Churchill's like, "Where is he?" So Putsy goes, "Leave it with me." So Hitler famously lives in an apartment building in um Berlin. So he goes to his apartment building. [ __ ] you not. Hitler's there just shaving his mustache. So he's just shaving his mustache at the time cuz you got to That's the thing about his mustache. Like there's a lot of work that goes into that thing. So he's shaving the mustache and he goes Winston Churchill um very important British politician wants to meet you and uh he's like what am I going to say to him [clears throat] and what am I going to say? I have no interest in talking to that guy and Putsy like argues with him for ages and he goes right I'll come. So he goes back tells Churchill Churchill and his family sit there Hitler never comes. So Putsy says I'll set you up the next day. Sets up another dinner. Hitler never comes. And it's like those moments of history that if those two met because famously I I didn't realize this until I was reading about it recently that Chamberlain met Adolf Hitler. He flew over to Germany and he was impressed by the handshake cuz Hitler does these like double handshakes and he was drawn in by his charisma and believe oh this guy will never invade. Um but it's just this fascinating counterfactual that if Adolf and Winston met what would have happened. What year was that? >> I want to say 31 32 around about then. [ __ ] Yeah, that's so cool. Uh, have you seen the Forbes under 30 under 30 fraud list? Oh, >> wow. >> Yeah, [laughter] it's crazy. >> Jared, >> how long is it now? >> Um, so it's just this stinks of YouTube. This is really some This is kind of just a gift for YouTube. Um, but this is the uh 30 under 30 fraud watch list. So, if we scroll down a little bit and you hover over Sam Beckman Freed, you'll see uh incarcerated Terraform Labs incarcerated. Elizabeth Holmes, Theronos, incarcerated. We'll keep going down. >> There we go. Time served for uh Martin Skrey. Um and if you go if you go to the black bit where it's like redacted, just scroll over the black uh text. The real numbers were 300,000. That's it. Sold the student loan app to JP Morgan for 175 million. Claimed 4.25 million users. The real number was 300,000. and she hired a data scientist to fabricate the rest. JP Morgan bought it anyway, then noticed. Oops. If we go all the way down to the bottom, there's actually a risk list. So, this is people who've been on the 30 under. It's like a a how would you say prototypical algorithm that looks at some of the hype around the market. So, these are companies that they think is going to be likely to be on the fraud list. So, I don't know any sphere. Cursor, do you know what that is? >> Cursor is super legit. say I would say cursor super legit but uh >> they're not going to come for you. Uh >> the crazy one is um Sam Bman and Frey came out today >> poly market there. >> Oh shame >> Sam Bman Fre came out today that um um the shares FTX. So Sam Bman Fre investment anthropic that owns Claude >> it would have gotten them out of the $60 billion >> 60 billion which Coinbase is worth 50 billion or something like that. So it's um but the >> FDX at its peak was 30. So basically he's one of the had he not gone to jail for fraud and had not been using >> would have been one of the richest people on the planet >> and he would have been seen as one of the best investors in the world because he was early in salami. He was early in this he certainly >> do they still have that position or did they have to liquidate the position? >> That's the sad part. When they did the bankruptcy they bring in this guy for he's a famous guy. He did the Enron bankruptcy something like something Rice or something. I forgot his name is He's got a cool cool sounding name. They bring him in. So what do they do? They immediately like freeze all payments. They like have like a protocol of bankruptcy. And so one of the things is they take all these illlquid shares and they say we need to sell them. And they sell them at this huge discount right away into the market. >> Oh my god. >> Um and so they sold >> You know what they do, you know what they sold it for? >> So they sold the whole lot for like I think like a billion dollars of like a billion dollars of all the investments that he had made. And so it was like a fraction of whatever it was like worth essentially. And uh just the one anthropic position alone is a $60 billion position. have paid off all of the >> oh multiple times. many times. >> So all of the people who were missing money, had they have just held when was the FTX thing? Three years ago. >> Uh yeah, something like that maybe. >> Had they have held had they have held the FTX position in anthropic simply for what thousand days, thousand more? Even let's say it was like they did it. It was last year. It would have been three years. Uh that would have cleared off everybody's debts. Everybody would have got their money back, >> right? Well, you got screwed because if let's say you held Bitcoin in FTX, you did nothing wrong. You bought Bitcoin on this exchange. You think you have Bitcoin. In reality, FTX either didn't buy the Bitcoin, just took your cash, they showed you you own 10 Bitcoin, but you didn't. They never bought the Bitcoin. They just took the cash and did something with it. Or you did have Bitcoin and they went and used it again for their own slush fund of investing, uh, which they were not supposed to do. Now, even when the bankruptcy happened and it's like, oh, you're going to get paid out, you got paid out based on the Bitcoin price when it happened, not the fact that Bitcoin was up 3, four, 5x since then. Why is that? It was like that it's it's the way that I guess the bankruptcy process works. I don't know the technicality of the way that they that they did it. And so you had this money that should have been appreciating that was locked up and then you get paid on the four years ago price or whatever it was the day the day that it that it happened is it's is pretty bad. >> Sean, your knowledge of [ __ ] niche business stuff, dude, is terrifying. It's like George for random historical facts. It's really >> terrifying. Galloway did something cool with this. Have you heard what he did? So when the bankruptcy happened and people um every every so like for me I had some cash FTX was one of our sponsors they g they gave us a bunch of money they gave us like 10020 grand to write an one article about them on the milk road and we actually wrote it and I wrote in the thing I was like yeah there's this uh weird relationship between FTX which everybody thinks is the best company in the world right now and Alamita Research his like hedge fund and it's like it's unclear the relationship it's it's a bit of a so you pulled this out. >> So, I called that part. I I I'm not an investigative journalist. I wasn't going to go It's not my job to go figure that out, but I just noted like, "Hey, like here's a bunch of really interesting things about them. Here's something that's unexplained. I don't I don't fully know. It sounds a little bit sketch." And so, we sent it to them. We're like, "Hey, we're ready to post." And they were like, "Uh, you need to take that part out." [laughter] >> No [ __ ] way. >> And so, I was like, "Well, I think I'm not going to take it out." >> And they were like, >> "Okay, uh, we'll get back to you." And they just never talked to me again. They never took the money back. They never asked for the money back. They just disappeared. posted it. >> We never posted it. We were like, "Okay, I guess we'll just I guess they'll get back to us." They just never did. And then it came out that that was like this link that was like a really problematic thing. >> That was their defensive way of handling that. >> Did you ever talk about Did you ever bring up the fact that you preciently [ __ ] accidentally just [laughter] nudged the trip wire. You didn't fully break it, but you nudged the trip wire that was going to cause like the biggest banking scandal of the last 5 years. >> The Epstein girls, the the two girls. >> But I'm like a dog setting it off. I wasn't really like clever in how I was doing it. >> You walked into you moonwalked in. >> Yeah. I was just like, hm, that sounds weird. Is there an explanation for this? They're like, no. And I was like, okay, still sounds weird to me. [laughter] >> Does this fall? It's really interesting to consider. And it kind of links to the like study says, science says of we just have this default bias of if people think this thing is successful kind of it's this giant game of Empress News that exists. One of the things that I've always had a bit of a problem with, maybe because I was such an unpopular kid, that the fact that talent isn't enough, momentum is more important for the most part. You know, we can let a lot of people get away with some pretty gnarly [ __ ] if it seems like they're crushing it. I always use this example of a fire festival. >> Billy McFarland from Fire Festival. The the festival was an entire catastrophe. Multiple documentaries made about it. People are in basically FEMA shelters instead of the five-star huts that they were promised. Blink182 doesn't turn up. People have got these like small cheese sandwiches. Maybe they're going to be stranded on there's not enough water. All the rest of it. But if Billy McFarland had been able to put together a half competent festival, just passible, >> right? >> He would have been held as a marketing genius. The orange square, all of that stuff was hugely influential. And this is because we will forgive almost every sin of someone's if they're successful. And in a meritocracy, this makes complete sense, right? If you are crushing it, that means I want to be around you. The blast radius of your success is so great. [ __ ] canonical perfect example that happened two weeks ago. Kanye West. >> Kanye West just sold out Sofi Stadium two nights, right? And the stage show is [ __ ] spectacular. All that anyone can talk about is how cool the production was and he's got all of these guests coming on. It's [ __ ] amazing. He hasn't exactly showered himself in glory over the last 5 years, right? It would be difficult for a musician to try and torpedo their own musical career more aggressively than Kanye West did. >> But Homeboy's got bangers. >> Yeah. >> If you've got bangers, dude, >> it's all forgiven. >> You can do whatever the [ __ ] you want. >> And that's on one side what happens with music, >> your point, and beauty. two things that hack the human brain so effectively that you will stay going back to the [ __ ] crazy stripper girl because she's so even though she's bad for you, you will listen to the person who put out literal Hy Hitler song [ __ ] 6 months ago because he's got three and a half hour worth set of straight heaters. And the same thing is also true with momentum. If somebody seems to be crushing it, we'll just we we're Sam Bankman Freed is playing [ __ ] what what was he playing? Like [ __ ] World of Warcraft or something >> during the meeting. >> Yeah. During and he's like, "Oh my god, this guy's a [ __ ] super genius." Yeah, exactly. And he's like, "No, no, no, no." Because any person would be scrutinized. But >> if you've got the right momentum, people are happy to just [ __ ] shunt that to the side. And I've never liked it. And it goes to my theory about why people say the only insults that hurt are the ones that you believe. And I don't think it's true. I think the insults that hurt the most are the ones that you know are untrue, but that you fear other people might believe >> because that's optics management because you have not only the unfairness, but you have the indignation of knowing that it isn't true. And this is the opposite side of the same dynamic that we're talking about here. You could put out something which is amazingly researched, a fantastic piece of work. But if other people say you're a bad guy or that was done incorrectly or we don't think he's cool, it's not going to get anywhere. But that can't happen with beauty because it hacks the human brain. You It is so hard to say. You can say that girl or that guy that's very good-looking, they're an [ __ ] They're a this, they're a that. You go, "Yeah, but they're so [ __ ] hot." The same with Kanye West. You can say he's an anti-semite. We don't like him. He's crazy. He's addicted to nitrous. D. It's like he's got [ __ ] heaters, dude. And for as long as he's got heaters, it doesn't matter. >> I do think music and beauty are unique in that regard that the more successful you are as a musician, the more you can probably get away with, more so than any other any other realm. People can kid themselves into not liking something that is objectively good because they don't like the person putting it across. In most art forms, if you don't like somebody on a podcast and they tell a really interesting story, you can convince yourself that it wasn't that interesting or they're an [ __ ] Even comedy, someone can tell tell a joke and you can be like, >> "That wasn't that good. Wasn't that good. Didn't think it was that good." The same thing is not true for music. It is so penetrating emotionally to people. It [ __ ] just cuts through your biases. It cuts through your defenses in a way that other art forms can't. And beauty, especially like female beauty for guys, is just you can be the craziest like total cluster B personality nightmare curse. If you're hot, guys are just going to keep coming back. >> Wait till you hear Epstein's Soundcloud. Um, you know, I I always use the um example with Billy McFaren of like Steve Steve Jobs is a little bit of a very very different figure to Billy McFarland, but reality distortion field kind of makes things happen. Um, and like the counterfactual that like the ultimate thing that Mfaren did or one of the big things is like his business partner, his co-founder was Jar Rule and like I always like the counterfactual if Steve Jobs's co-founder was Jar Rule rather than Steve Wnjak like the Mcfaren story is very obviously it's on him for selecting Jar Rule. Um but if you would have selected a a good operator would have happened. Yeah. What would have happened? >> Question. >> What businesses would be made better by adding jaw ruler? [laughter] >> That's a great question. >> Have you seen the old thing? What does Jaw have to say about this? [laughter] >> The old time old internet memes. >> There's a there's a a a phrase that I've been very interested in recently called supernormal stimuli. Have you guys heard this? >> Yeah. >> This pretty fascinating familiar with this. you might be able to explain it. Uh >> yeah, scanarian behaviorism stuff. Yeah, there's basically there was a scientist uh back he won the Nobel Prize for this and what he studied was he he got famous because instead of doing studies in a lab he just went out into the wild was like what do I observe is actually true and then if I tweak a variable can I just leave it in in the real environment and see what happens and so what he did was uh you know birds the core behavior of a bird is to sit on uh the egg keep the egg warm that's your baby that's like the entire like Darwinian pressure is to keep this egg alive so he goes Awesome. Bird loves egg. Does bird love bigger egg? Does bird love pink egg? Bird love pink polka dot egg. So he started putting a fake bigger egg with bigger dots and bigger brighter colors. Put it next to it. And guess what the bird does? Gets off its real egg and goes sits on the fake egg because it's more stacked the brain. And so his point wasn't like it's not like some rational pros and cons listless decision. bird just had a a a deep like uh part of his brain that you could just hijack by changing the to give it a what he calls a supernormal stimulus. So he gave him a bit bigger and he could just keep doing this up till the point where it's almost comical. The egg is so big that a bird finally when he's like I can't even sit on this egg. Okay, I guess that's too big, right? And like you know you walk around and you'll see people with >> crazy lip fillers and BBLs and it's like what is it? It's a supernormal stimulus. It's the same thing is like there's a way to hijack the mind, beauty, uh, color. If you go to the grocery store, what do the food companies do? They basically take your normal stimulus. So like, you know, the humans were evolved to we like salt because we need electrolytes. We like fat for a certain reason. We need certain things in our in our diet. So they just said, "Well, what if I give you a lot of salt? What if I give you [ __ ] Doritos, Koola Ranch? What if I give you triple, you know, triple pack Dorito loco, whatever." And you eventually get a supernormal stimulus that you really can't like resist. Your body has this like extreme like pull towards it. >> You know, my favorite supernormal stimuli is hunter gatherers eating cheesecake for the first time. >> Wow. >> Because it is so unique. There's a a process called orification. So orification is the design of texture of foods. And if you think about ancestrally almost every food that you can think of is a single texture, right? meat cooked slimyish a little bit. Yeah. There we go. Supern normal stimuli with Let's see how this is getting on. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] that. >> Yeah, I'm out on this now. Two hours. >> I'm still enjoying it. I think I'm hungry. Um, Oreos, >> crunchy on the outside, fluffy on the inside, fries. But what's interesting about the cheesecake thing is that you have fat with carbs and sugar. Unbelievably rare. And you have sort of the crunchiness of the base, and you can tell I'm hungry. and the uh like fluffiness of the top of the cheesecake. And they give these to hunter gatherers and these they're [ __ ] mind. It's a flavor explosion. Um but yeah, the the there's a really great one that >> I think it's beetles, a type of beetle, dung beetle perhaps or some other beetle. They're attracted they're sexually attracted to the shininess of the shell, the shininess of the top. But as uh glass bottles became prevalent, the beetle population was going down because the glass bottles were shinier and bigger than the beetles were. So they were driving themselves into extinction, not mating with each other and just mating with glass bottles because that was a supernormal stimuli. >> And what happens with the uh cosmetic surgery, the big lips, the big boobs thing, >> you get something called fisherian runaway. So ficarian runaway is this sort of recursive insane expansion of typically like sexually dimorphic traits, sexually uh provocative traits. And you end up with uh uh peacocks who've got tails so big that they can't move with um uh deer whose antlers are so large they can't lift their heads up and they die. um with women who've got boobs that are so big that they end up with back pain and you know they they're unable let's say that you took it to the absolute extreme. You were no longer able to procreate. The reason for that trait in the first place, but you'd done something that like destroyed your hips and now it meant that you needed to have that hyctomy and you couldn't have your your your uterus anymore. And now you've killed your chance at doing the thing by having it run away with itself. the same as some of those deers or uh rams where the size of their like antler things dig into their own head and kill them. >> Oh yeah, I've seen that. >> [ __ ] gnarly. >> Wow. It's funny how it's it's kind of like a meta discourse where you know you was talking earlier about the platforms and the feedback loops and then you end up like going to arrive, but that's kind of nature's like home. >> It's the same dynamic. That's what it's what you've seen on social media is tapping into this exact dynamic. It's the same thing. >> It's just that you've had to replicate it digitally. >> There's a great tweet that this guy Jay Alto said. He said, "You pity the moth for confusing the lamp for the moon, yet here you are confusing a screen for the world." >> [ __ ] slow. It's one of the best one of the best tweets of this year. >> Yeah, it's amazing. >> But there is a solve, right? Cuz like you hear this and you're like, "Oh, great. We're fucked." It's like, "No, what's there's got to be some sort of antidote to this." And what the interesting part was the equation goes like this. It's basically how powerful is the stimulus. So the flavor of the food, the size of the feathers, whatever versus your baseline norm, what you are used to. And the cool thing is basically like there's this arms race where they keep escalating. So the more you do it, the more you get used to it. Then you need a bigger stimulus and a bigger you need a a bigger tweet and a bigger Tik Tok and more views on the next video and you need a stronger flavor. But all you got to do is basically detox for a very short amount of time and reset. Like if anybody's ever given up soda for like you know a couple months or years never done that >> you if you go back to it tastes like horrible it's like so syrupy it's too sweet you can't handle it but you used to drink eight diet cokes and the reason why is because you you can reset the denominator essentially instead of trying to avoid the the the forces of of you know commercialization that are trying to stimulate you. >> What's that uh cuck fuchious substack that me and you like you see his staring at a wall experiment. >> No. So this guy's substack. It's pretty niche, but it's [ __ ] >> Cook Fuchious. >> [ __ ] Fuchious. >> He's great. He's great. >> Really well written. You would love it. [ __ ] great. I mean, George introduced me to him and now I'm I'm pretty his first post that I saw was uh I am Andrew Puberman. >> That was the first that was the [laughter] first blog post that I read from him. >> Subscribe. >> Um >> and um he's doing an experiment. He did an experiment I think for 30 days where he stared at a wall for an hour. And this is kind of a twist on an ancient eastern practice which I think Dr. Kay's got his clients to do as well. And after >> 20 minutes, some people burst into tears. Some people are screaming. They kind of go a little bit. >> Yeah. Because I at least what I think is happening, >> their baseline of stimulus is so low. Even if you're in the shower, you're doing stuff. Even if you're going for a walk, things are moving past you, right? You're locomoting and you see the [ __ ] world, >> but all they're doing is staring at a wall. >> Staring at a wall for an hour. I would I I mean let's see >> what would be you know what would be an interesting test take people that have been to jail and compare them to people that haven't because >> dude I was in [ __ ] in school suspension when I was a teenager for like weeks on end and all I did was stare at a [ __ ] wall. It didn't make me go crazy. That's just weird. That's >> I mean present evidence may suggest otherwise. >> Well, [laughter] says the man. >> It was just a [ __ ] delayed onset, dude. >> Wasn't it? There's um there's a few like the most the most extreme versions of this. You've got um I've never fully verified this one, but of uh monks who've meditated for such a significant period of time are in I think it's like three standard deviations >> happiness >> of happiness. So like it's like the 0.01%. My favorite and I'm always a bit like it's a bit of a study but I'm like [ __ ] this one's not a study of um the guy who set himself on fire to protest the Vietnam War. I don't know if Jared if you could pull that one up. Um >> the monk >> Yeah, the monk who set himself on fire who just literally walks walks out sits in lotus position sets himself on fire doesn't blink or flinch. And at that moment I was like, "Huh, maybe there is something to meditate. Studies don't need to show." >> Yeah. Studies don't need to show. I think it's Ken Burns Vietnam documentary that covers this really well. >> You hear about his heart? >> Whose heart? >> The guy. So this is like kind of a Buddhist a Buddhist philosophy that um or like a a Buddhist part of the story which was his heart didn't set on fire. So his heart was like kind of completely normal. His whole body went to crisp but his heart was still there. I think you could check this Jar but I think in the cremation period they tried to cremate his heart and it refused to burn. It's like it's a very it could be a complete myth but but any when as soon as I see this any of my questions around what the human mind is capable of um goes out the window. >> Homeboy sat in full lotus just barbecuing anything around him. Yeah, that's crazy. >> You can see the gasoline. >> There's a guy who's trying the screen experiment. Have you seen this? The guy who's doing one year no screens. >> He's trying to Brian Johnson, but just a no screen and he's scanning his brain before and after. >> How far into it is he >> like a day, right? He just started staring at a wall. [ __ ] He finished all the things. He's like, I'm going to avoid Yeah. This guy David uh David Danes today I'm scanning my brain before I spend a year without screens. They they expect brain function to change, but whe the structure self changes, nobody seems to know. And he's got his website where you could just like you're going to be able the updates of the results. >> Imagine how hard it would be to not It's like not being exposed to [ __ ] microplastics, dude. I mean, he's going to be Yeah, he's going to be looking at a screen in an airport. He's going to go to the gym and there's going to be stuff around. So, he's really assumed no screen anywhere. I assume I said I assumed he meant like phone, TV, like personal screen. I mean, he's not going to ever look at any >> I think that's he's going Amish is what it is. >> Come on. >> You got to go all the way [ __ ] blinkers on. >> See, see if you can find the the rules of the of the challenge. But yeah, that's >> it's pretty unwritten. >> Hey, what was that quote you said uh maybe 10 minutes ago about the the person that you looked at the screen and it's reality. >> What did you say? >> Like we we laugh when the moth confuses, you know, a lamp for the moon, but here we are confusing the screen for the world. >> Yeah. Okay. map that on to AI. >> What do you mean? >> Just just uh in general like what? Like I don't know in 50 years people are going to be like laughing at us because of whatever we were doing right now. >> Like we're confusing with real intelligence or what do you mean? >> I I don't really know. I just when you said that it made me think of how AI is going to be like um people are going to laugh at us for in 50 years for what we thought was good AI. That's what I thought of when you said that for some reason. >> Oh yeah. I mean that that curve of technology >> like they're going to look at us right now in 50 or 100 years like where the [ __ ] moth that thinks the lamp is a what you get. >> Did you guys watch the the you mentioned Dennis? >> You mentioned Demis from uh Deep Mind. Did you watch the documentary? Unbelievable. >> What is this? He's got this uh the guy who created Deep Mind which kind of kicked off this whole AI wave. >> He has his documentary on Amazon I think called The Thinking Game. >> It's on YouTube now. >> Oh, it's on YouTube. It's on YouTube. Highly recommend to anyone. >> Dennis, if you're if you're listening, I want to bring you on the show. Reply to my emails. >> Dude, he's he's he's cool. Like he was like a six-year-old child prodigy, chess player, etc. But like that moment of move 37 is just like chose. You know what I mean? I feel like that's like a turning point in human history was this move 37 moment. Basically, Google DeepMind has I mean they seem to be the most safetyconscious kind of very human approach to this AI race at the moment. >> Yes. >> But uh I don't know if I mean that the whole point of this which is why Scott Alexander thinks that anthropic is the antichrist because the antichrist will come and make you think that they're not. Uh so in this whole AI that was the whole point that I had with Tristan Harris is everyone wants to cast dispersions at company like open AI I don't like you because you did this and I don't like Google because they did that or Grock I don't like you because you did the whatever. It's like hey dude it doesn't matter what somebody's stated [ __ ] safety goals are. These guys are speed running through model development as quickly as possible and if they don't >> they lose >> they lose. So just look at the incentives. Don't look at the [ __ ] press release. Right. Like, yeah, the the anthropic Super Bowl ads were [ __ ] hilarious, but don't play. And they decided not to do the thing for the Department of War and they did whatever stuff. It's like, dude, don't [ __ ] like get lost in the source. These people are playing the exact same [ __ ] game just with slightly better PR. >> Yeah, >> it does seem there's a huge doomer like narrative right now around AI that's becoming more and more popular. >> Listen to more Freedberg to do. I mean like from the wider question of what happens I don't know but from firsthand like experience like for myself I um because the image models are getting so good now I've had like a like it's called subberomic dermatitis for about 10 years sometimes it gets so bad I wouldn't want like go outside like level of bad I just showed it to Gemini >> what does that mean >> um so it's basically you kind of like there'll be a lot of people listening that have it affects like 5 to 10% of the population and your face will just break out in like really bad eczema so I went to one doctor who basically got me on a steroid cream um and said the reason why you have it is because of stress. It's like quite well known because of stress. Carried on. I started like meditating, like fixing my diet. I basically didn't eat sugar for like 2 years and it calmed it down. I was like, "Oh, it's because of sugar." And then I saw a second doctor um and she said, "Yeah, you're too stressed out." I'm like, "Fuck, I'm getting stressed out by your guy's diagnosis and I'm stressed out." So, she recommends another steroid cream. I end up tracking it for ages and I just upload the whole document to Gemini. And it goes, "Oh, no. Just just put niserol on your face." So anybody who has subatomic dermatitis, it fixes it for like 90% of people as a medicine or it's shampoo. It's a [ __ ] shampoo. Shampoo you can get for a few cells in blue. >> And like I've never had it ever again since 10 years. Never had it ever again since. And that's just that. But these stories are like it's not as it's not as sexy as like the the guy who speaks to the LLM and decides to take his own life. It's not that that's like obviously horrific story if it's even [ __ ] true. I don't know. Um but like I know just so many people whose like health is genuinely being like revolutionized by these things. It's just we just have such an anchor towards negativity. Um >> also you you're always going to push back against something some new technological development. >> Yes. It's it's the most recurring lesson throughout history. Like I was reading because I was fascinated by with AI coming on. I was like I want to go study the industrial revolution. What was fascinating at the time you had two groups that came up. You had the lites who would just basically go and smash the factories in. You saw this recently with Sam Alman having a Molotov cocktail thrown at his house um a week ago. But then you also had the romantics. So the romantics would kind of pine about and you kind of see this now with AI where it's like they'll call things slot which which are and there is there's a what you you do want the lites and you do want the romantics because they kind of act as um a balancing arc to to the uh to the progression. But I think like net net most people alive today do not want to go back to pre-industrial revolution. They do not want like the option is to go to Amish if you do want to. Like that is available if you want to go Aish but nobody does. >> Mhm. >> I think AI is going to make people go [ __ ] insane. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because they're we're getting into a point where >> pull I was going to say but pull Jared if you can pull up the new thing. I don't know um the FC produced this. I don't know how true it is but essentially they argue it's um it's making people less polarized immediately where social media was pushing people further to the left and the right whereas AI you can kind of already see with Grock now they fact check people a lot more. So, they're bringing a lot more people into the center. >> Well, why do you think it'll make >> Because, dude, it's we live in a post-truth age now. There's no way to determine what what flavor is it. >> This is sweet whiskey. You want sweet whisp. >> You going to have two toothpicks in? That's [ __ ] >> Yeah, I'm doubling down. >> Jesus Christ. >> Well, um there's uh Well, I'm not using them to actually pick my teeth. I'm just >> No, but just you you need so many stimulants that you've got oneonic toothpick, one Zipix toothpick. >> Yeah, I know. And I'm coming down off that cratom right now. >> You quiet. Everything's in slow motion. Uh uh I think that deep fakes and uh maybe it's more so in America than other places, but after the Charlie Kirk assassination, there's all these conspiracy theories left and right about whether it was Israel did it or it's a hologram or if this guy was real. Like there's all this crazy [ __ ] right? And um nobody's going to be saying it's a something like oh this is a hologram or this was AI without the advent of AI being able to create deep fakes that are largely I mean look at it look at boomers dude they believe all sorts of crazy [ __ ] and we're like [laughter] [ __ ] idiots. That's what I was kind of getting at I guess with what I was saying to you about that that comment. But we're never going to know I mean ever what actually has happened with anything we know anymore. the truth is no longer even [ __ ] matters because it can't be determined unless you experience it with your own five sense. So there's um there's a great uh chapter in a book called the beginning infinity and essentially his idea is what's called known as the precautionary principle which is essentially the history of humanity is essentially problems like we start like even Great Britain like where me and Chris are from is just a is a human concept like it shouldn't exist like we in Great Britain me and my family should [ __ ] die of hypothermia but because of like we created central heating we created clothing but so we essentially have this whole arc of just problem solving problem solving problem solving, problem solving. And the problem that you then have, ironically, is that when a new problem comes along like this is that you have what's known as the precautionary principle, which is we can see the problem, but we can't see the solution. But by definition, people, human beings can't forecast a solution because if we had the solution for it, we would implement it and be worth trillionaires. Yeah. >> But what you end up having is kind of 7 billion people working towards um this potential problem. You saw it with co like I'm I'm a I unsexy to say, but I'm pretty optimistic when it comes to humans abilities to solve problems. Oh, I think I think I think like a lot of this stuff we can fix. >> Speaking of AI, did you see this Allirds pivot? >> Oh, dude, [snorts] that's insane. >> Can you explain for the class, please? What the [ __ ] just happened? >> Allirds, which was like a uh popular shoe amongst tech guys, at least. I don't know how popular it got outside of that, but it was like a niche shoe. It was like a wool sneaker. They were like started small, became a public company, but then they started failing. And so, like the stock has been going down for years. They were I think they were last like you know they at one point like a billion dollar company they were like $50 million company now so the stock had been falling falling falling falling falling and there was really no path and so these guys bought it I think and I think what they did was they they purchased it and they just pivoted to AI and it's like well how does a shoe pivot what does that mean they're like well we raised all this debt we're going to buy GPUs and sell them and the stock like as of this morning is soaring I don't think this is a sustainable thing but the >> valued at around $4 billion at its peak sold the intellectual property and other assets two weeks ago for 39 million. >> 39 million. And then they renamed it like what? Freeird or something. What do they name it? >> The shoe company had a market cap of 21 million on Tuesday, which climbed to 148 million on Wednesday. >> Wow. >> Just by saying we do AI, >> the words AI and crypto. There was like a ICT company that was like, "Yeah, we're IT company, but we're a blockchain iced tea company." And then there's like, you know, there was tons of these companies. They would just change their name. They didn't even change the underlying business. They just changed the name to like, you know, blockchain motor controls and then their stock would pop just because of >> Yeah, dude. The one day price move is 582%. >> Yeah, it's stupid. There's stupid things that happen. This is like, you know, the efficient market hypothesis and then you you hear this, right? >> Yes. I saw somebody putting like the intelligent investor in the bin. It's like giving up on this. Yeah. [laughter] >> Speaking of, did you guys see this kind of blew my mind? Um, this is more in the kind of fear and doom stuff, but did you see the uh Indian the Indian factory AI thing? Do you see this? Uh, >> oh where the uh training people with the the cameras >> headset >> to fold clothes and [ __ ] >> They're sewing shirts. They're just they're basically folding towels. They're doing shirts. So there's giant factories now in India where the primary function is you're paid to wear a head like a head camera and it just films you doing a a task and they're basically creating all the training data for the robots like the humans basically creating the train Jared pull this video up. It's it's just kind of striking when you see it. It's like it feels like a black mirror episode. >> Do you know Do you know how uh Tesla made it self-driving so good? Do you know how that how it was trained >> with a human? >> Yeah. So, >> so these guys are just working and these guys have like neck pain and all this stuff cuz they're wearing this eight hours straight. >> Hey, Sean, their head. >> There's like a com there's a company that's basically making a lot of money creating this data and selling it back to the AI AI labs, which is pretty wild. And Elon actually, he gave this interview. He said something that nobody really has talked about, but I thought it was pretty batshit crazy. They were like, "Well, the next thing for Tesla is not cars, it's his robot." They're like, "How are you going to train the robot to do all this stuff? You don't like for cars, you got the data cuz humans were driving the cars. So, you were able to learn on millions and millions of miles. How are you going to do it with the robots? He's like, "Well, we're building this, I don't know, 100,000 square foot warehouse and we're going to put 10,000 robots in there >> and uh they're going to selfplay." So, he's like, "So, so if you if you watch like how they've trained the the AI to beat like Go and chess, there was one way which was you have grand masters tell hard code rules. Okay, what's better than that? you train it on only Grandm's game uh game logs. And then they did this thing called Alpha Zero where they're like, "We're just going to tell you the rules of chess. You play yourself 100,000 times, see what happens." And that became better than all of the other models with no no data of uh how to play chess or how to play Go. And so Alpha Zero was this huge breakthrough when when DeepMind did it. So now Elon's trying to do the same thing with robots where he's like, "Yeah, we could do this where we get all the data from like human people like recordings or we could just create a warehouse where we tell them the the objectives of the different stations and then we let them just like fumble around trying to figure out like how to use their arms and like eventually they're just going to figure out put 10,000 robots in this box." I'm like I would pay so much money to watch the fun live stream. [laughter] >> Well, the [ __ ] what what was that? Was it Neo? Is that the at home robot? What was the one that's made of kind of knitted? It looked like Neo is the name of it. Yeah, >> Neo. So, this was an at home assistance robot. There was two versions. You could buy it outright. You could rent it. I think to rent it, it was actually quite expensive. Was it $300 a month? Something like that? $400 a month. And uh someone videoed their Neo trying to close the dishwasher and it looks like someone at the end of a party on too much ketamine trying to do the same thing. It's all sort of janky and it's going down like and it just cannot close this [ __ ] dishwasher. Um >> that reminds me of i Robot. Yeah. >> You remember that man? >> Yeah. Will Smith classic. >> And he has the living robot and he's like, I don't trust this [ __ ] thing. [laughter] >> Well, the way that the Tesla training data was done was that they took the top 5% 1% of drivers and basically said they're going to drive on our behalf cuz the self-training thing has to be harder when you're talking about the physical world because the parameters of outcome, success, and failure are way harder to work. Like is this is this folded right? Like there's a million ways that you could fold it. it turns out like a [ __ ] you know, it's a one of those [ __ ] origami. It's a swan. It's a goose. And uh you you don't want that. It's nice and beautiful, but it doesn't fit the parameters, right? So, more oversight or at least like a base training data of like, hey, here are some of the because what are the rules of the game of folding clothes, >> right? They kind of it's kind of strange to but once you've got this raw training set, but this is the f this does feel a little bit like uh finishing off the champagne on the Titanic. [snorts] You know, it's like we're going down and we'll just on the way down I'll make a little bit of extra money from doing this thing. Uh >> to round out, George, >> good news about your dad. >> Phil Collins is a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 2026 inductee. >> There we go. >> Any idea what your dad said in response? Very British response this. Obviously, I'm pleased [laughter] and honored to be inducted. It wraps up what has been a wonderful life in music. Obviously, I'm pleased. Sounds a little bit passive aggressive. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Took took a while till 2026 to get this. >> Obviously, I'm pleased and honored to be inducted. Wraps up what has been a wonderful life in music. Boys, this has been [ __ ] sick. Appreciate you all. >> All right. >> Unreal. Phil Collins, George's dad. Let's go. All right. Goodbye, everybody. seen Phil Cohen. >> I've never seen it. Wow. My first time ever seeing Phil, >> bro. So much fun. >> One last swig. >> Habit. >> I mean, this just >> Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, another one that I know you love is just here.