The True Beginning of Your Donor's Journey: Discovery and Trust

Hey, welcome back everybody. We are kicking off nonprofit power week with our friends from Bloomerang and Emily Kelly is in the hot seat. Welcome my friend. >> Hi. The hot seat. Here we go. Thanks for having me. >> Well, we've loved having you on before and this is a really exciting time for us because we don't do nonprofit power weeks very often. Um, and it's a really interesting opportunity for us to drill down in five days with a a a continual arc of a storyline. And we're going to be talking about with you and your and your other uh team members about that journey that a donor and nonprofits take together. And I think this is just brilliant. I'm so excited to be able to do this with you so that we get this like this clear guide of what we can do and how we can expect it. So, we're starting off with you and we're talking about first impressions. How donors find your organization. Woo. That's a big topic, isn't it? >> It is, but it's it's discovery. It's the beginning of the journey. So, like the first the first day, the first person of this series. And so, we're going to start with the discovery. So, I I really look forward to chatting with you about it. >> I love it, Emily. I think it's just so important. You know, we get to have these amazing conversations because we have partners like Bloomerang. We also have partners such as the American Nonprofit Academy, Staffing Boutique, JMT Consulting, Third Sector Company, Your Parttime Controller, and Martis, the newest member of our sponsor family. I'm Julia C. Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. and Emily Kelly, we first started talking to you in the the early days of the nonprofit show and we've been able to watch you grow and and see your career change and bloom. Talk to us about what a national accounts manager at Bloomerang does. >> Oh, I'm just one of these like hokey people that just gets to say that they love their job all of the time. And I love that I get to say that because I just don't feel like you hear that enough. Um, I've been in the nonprofit space for a long time for a lot of my life. I was in sales for a big part of my life. So, this is just really nice fusion of that and I get to travel the country and talk to nonprofits on the national level. So, I think Habitat for Humanity, Boys and Girls Clubs, Humane Societies, um, and then honestly I get to shake hands, kiss babies, hear stories, wipe tears, celebrate successes. So, there's nothing better than that. It's wonderful. Yeah, >> it's super cool. And I love that you do have that opportunity because I've got to believe, you know, having worked with you before, you're so great at sharing. You must bring to the table confidence and and connections. It must be really powerful. >> I love relationships. I've always thrived on relationships. I think relationships are so important whether you're a partner, a friend, a colleague or you're working especially in this nonprofit space and a thousand years ago when I went to college, I went to school to be a therapist. So I just feel like this is just a very natural progression for me and I get to put all of those skill sets in one place. But I don't think anything is successful unless you have good relationships and that just goes across the board with everything that I do. >> Yeah. Well, you know, it's it's a cool way to to lead into our first question for you because um you know, we talk about this all the time that it's the relationship that makes the magic of the nonprofit sector work when it comes to our donors and even working with our clients and our funders. But let's back it up a little bit and talk about first impressions. I was teasing you in the green room is that it's true what our mother said. Well, at least my mother said to me, first impressions set the tone. >> They sure do. Nothing's changed. >> No. So, talk to us about this. >> Yeah. I think it's important whenever someone is looking to support a nonprofit that there's in in this world there's a lot of different avenues where they can find you, right? So they can find you on social media, they can find you on your website, their sister can tell you about it. Maybe you ran a 5K with a particular organization. So you know, whenever you're supporting an organization, you need to know a lot of like who, what, when, where, why, who are they, what do they do, how are you going to impact that organization, what are they doing. Um, so making sure that you have communication with that relationship for the the folks that are going to support you is so important out the gate. And it's really important to remember it's not the donation that really gets that that individual involved with the organization. It's that first impression piece first because if they're not aware of who you are or what you do, then that that donation is null and void. So the donation is just the transaction and then the relationship is the actual asset. >> Right. I love that you said that because I think too much of the time we chase the money and we're like, "Okay, we just got to get that sale. We got to get that transaction and then we got to start all over because we don't retain those donors, right? I mean, it's it's not it's not smart. It's not a smart way to to to work because we're ultimately we're not building champions." So, I love that you kind of level set us for this. So, this is the thing and I mentioned again in the green room, a lot of people ask me this question. If I can only do one thing, if I can only be on one channel, where do I go? And >> if you can only be on one channel, sorry. >> Yeah. I mean, like, where do I where do I go? And I I always say, well, you can't be on just one you can't buy one billboard, you know, in the city. You you've got to be thinking about this in a different way. So talk to us about that mentality and building awareness. >> So this is something that I kind of go down a rabbit hole on which I find it to be really fascinating when I'm traveling a lot. Like this is a conversation I always have because different demographics are giving differently, right? So Gen Z is giving very differently than boomers that are giving very different than millennials and Gen X and so on and so forth. So like you said, you just can't put all of your eggs in one basket. because there's a tremendous value in appealing to all of these demographics because they're all giving a lot and whether it's their time or their money or their volunteering. But you have to create a space where they're going to trust you. And whenever you're creating that space, the younger generations is going to be more towards a social media path. And then where your older generations, they want to have a little bit more storytelling. they want to be, you know, they'll communicate with you via newsletter or email or hard paper contacts. So, making sure that you're covering all of your bases is really important, but I know that you can't do everything. So, that's al also very important also. So, understanding who supports you the most and starting there and then moving across all the demographics. So when I hear you say that, that means that we need to know who our donors are and then paint that picture and then back into our marketing and our communications from that. Is that >> right? Because you can't convert a donor that you can't reach, right? So you want to make sure that you're reaching them properly. >> Oh my god, Emily. You can't convert a donor you can't reach. That's Yeah, that boils it down. I love that you said that because it makes it more um the way you just articulated it articulated the concept. It means like this is why you do this. It's not busy work, right? I mean this it's this is strategic, >> right? And it's also and you personalize it as much as you possibly can too, right? whether you and hopefully you can do that with your CRM and you're understanding how these folks want to communicate with you and you take note of that because it's also very important to understand that if you're communicating with them improperly or you're communicating with them in a way that they don't wish to be communicated with for example I don't want emails and all a sudden you're flooding them with emails then you're going to lose them. So, like we all know, it costs a whole heck of a lot more to get more supporters than to retain the ones we already have. So, again, it boils down relationships and communication and understanding those folks and how they want to support you. So, let's dig into this a little bit more because personalization is a lot more than just saying dear John or dear Betty or dear M. Smith. Um, and I think a lot of us think, oh, personalization is getting that first name. Right. But you're talking about something much more than that. Right. >> Right. And you, if you want to go back to first impression, sure. You want if it's an inerson thing, you want to shake hands and have eye contact and make sure you say someone's name. And it's a very like it's a stepping stone. It's a first piece here. But also understanding how these folks want to support you beyond what their name is. Of course, that's important to address someone by name, but are they someone that just wants to volunteer because at this point in their financial situation, they can only give their time. So, make sure you focus there. Or is this someone who really loves events and they want to come to your events and they want to, you know, raise paddles and they want to get involved and they want boots in the ground or is this someone who just really has an opportunity to give a lot of money and don't and they can't give a lot of time, but understanding which avenue they want to support you. in addition to who they are and their communication pref preferences is really important. >> Emily, when I hear you talk about this, it makes me think that we need to stop this thought of casting the the wide net that maybe we need to narrow down, which seems scary to a lot of nonprofits, but to say, look, who are the best relationships that we can have? who are the people that, you know, I keep using that word champion, but who champion us and then let's double down on them. Is that a fair thing to be thinking about when we're talking about awareness? >> I feel like nonprofits are like, you know, when I travel all the time and I talk to folks like we're just asked to do so many things and a lot of these nonprofits are I always say they wear a lot of hats for one person and you cannot do everything. But if you take time to understand who your donors are, who your supporters are, then that's a that's a really great place to start because you can't do everything. You can't, like you said, have a billboard and have this email campaign and have a social media campaign and do a Tik Tok and all the things that you have to do to to appeal to everyone, but understanding maybe at first what's your primary primary demographic and then spread your wings from there. So, when you're talking about that, could you give me any um concrete levels? Is it is it fair to say you need to know the top 10% or the top 15 or when we're trying to wrap our heads around maybe doing this in a different way, how should we focus? It's a really good question. Um, I mean, focus definitely on and who who has supported you and, you know, make sure that you're retaining them first. Don't worry so much about getting your new folks and and work on who you already have. >> Um, I think that's a really solid place to start whether it's 10% or 20%, just whom you already have and how they want to communicate with you and how they like to support you and understanding them. You know, it's interesting that you said that because I don't think we think that way in the nonprofit sector. I think we're always on to who's the next, who's the next, who do I don't, who do I not know or who do I want to know? To hear you kind of pull this back. Um, it takes a lot of the fear out of it, right? Because you if you already know these folks, does that make sense or am I >> You already know them. And if you're doing a good job communicating with them, then they already know you, too. So, it's a two-way street there, which as we know is really great for communication and relationships. I think that we're all guilty, whether it's in our jobs or, you know, we're in our investments or whatever the case it is. We're all chasing that almighty dollar, but we're not looking at like where we can start at a at a foundational level to to make those dollars grow without chasing them externally. Yeah, it's really an interesting thing and hearing you speak that way, I'm like, I don't know where we got off the path. I mean, and that's why we're having nonprofit power week is to kind of help us reenter and figure out what's a good journey. Um, that we do have these people. Um, I want to ask you about this in terms of building trust. I find that I I hear a lot of nonprofit fundraisers and leaders say, you know, we we have people who trust us or who know us or who love us, but we've asked them too many times. And so I'm wondering if that's not a part of the ecosystem that we feel like we've got to get new donors because we're afraid to ask the donors that are already giving to us. And I'd love to get your your feedback on that because that seems to me that's on the continuum of trust. >> Correct. Um I do think a lot of organizations get in a bad habit of of frequent asks. But I think that if you backpedal a little bit, maybe it's just you're making the ask in the wrong way because you haven't identified how they like to communicate with you or how they like to support you. So, if you're asking someone to support your gayla, but they're someone who doesn't even live close by or they they're someone who specifically said that they don't like to attend events, then you're you're abandoning them a little bit and they can't trust you because they're not that you're not listening to how they like to support you. So, if you just take pause, I know we're all very overstimulated with our phones and texts and emails and everything else, but if we just like take a minute and pause and and understand how folks want to communicate with us, I think that's a really solid foundation for how we can communicate with these folks. >> Can you give us some strategies on how we do that? I mean, first of all, recognizing that we need to understand this and we need to really drill down and and and hopefully have a mechanism like Bloomerang offers so that we can be recording this and it's not just a I think this is what Mr. and Mrs. Smith want. [clears throat] How do we do this? >> How do we get this information? >> I mean, segmentation can really make it really easy for you in your CRM, whether it's Bloomerang or not. um identifying who those f folks are like like to go back to a gayla like maybe inviting folks who are within that zip code maybe somebody who didn't support you that lives 2,000 miles away um doing check-ins with your supporters and say hey you know we're updating some things can we confirm that this is your birthday this is your address um can we confirm that this is still the way that you want to communicate with us has something changed um and just making note and and checking in with them and thinking them for being a supporter without them having to give you money to do so is a really nice way for them to feel seen and understood and know that you support their support. >> Right. I'm thinking like you just mentioned that and I'm thinking about all the different organizations that I support and I'm going to ask you the same question um because I don't think anyone really asks me that. Not that I'm a huge funer of by any stretch of the imagination. I think I'm a typical American who donates to things that I think are important, but I don't think I've ever been asked that. >> Right. Yeah. And and then you think about how would you feel if you were asked that? >> Yeah. >> And to get into the mind of of really human any human being is that we all like to talk about ourselves and share things about ourselves. So what if you can get somebody on the phone and talk to them and they can say like you know this is my birthday or I just had a grandbaby or whatever those things are that you can take note you know then maybe you do see that person at a gayla and you say hey how's your grandbaby because you noted that >> um it's just another great way for you to to connect and build those relationships but yeah no I'm not receiving things like that and these are these are conversations that I have and maybe this goes back to like the therapist thing but I'm like how would you feel if you received a message like that and people always like I would feel really seen I would that would be really great instead of being inundated with communication that I otherwise said that I didn't want to have >> right or it's just meaningless >> correct >> right I mean it's just it's just meaningless um it's such an interesting thing about first impressions and building trust how do we know if we're doing it right I mean I is it is it just enough to say, "Oh, we got more donations or we met our goals or how do we especially if we're trying to to really build our awareness and think about awareness with a different mindset, how do we start to recognize that that this is this is working?" I think there's so much fear and change, right? And you know, if you're an organization that's like, we're going into the giving season, we're going into the end of the year and all this is going to happen. Okay, we'll talk about change next year or you know, you know what I'm saying? It's like, >> how do we set ourselves up for recognizing the success of this? >> Gosh, [clears throat] that's a great question. Um, I think it's almost like with any anything in the consumer world like or down to like the golden rule like how would you like to be treated and then and start with that as a foundation and building trust. Um, I think it's it's a really interesting point to ponder with like referrals and references. So, if you know all of a sudden you're seeing an influx of supporters from the supporters you already have, um, they're feeling strong and confident about you. So, they're using word of mouth to support you. And sometimes that's all it takes is somebody else to support them because they don't want to do the work of of the research of understanding a nonprofit because let's face it, nobody has the time to do it. So, if my sister says, "Hey, I really support this organization for X, Y, and Z. You should too." Well, then color me happy. Then we're we're in a good place. or you know they have a for the younger demographic if they've got a really strong social media presence where you know that first impression is I can see what they do. I can see who they support. There's some stories here. There's there's a leg to stand on versus just a bunch of jargon on top of the the web page. Then that's that's another reason why someone would just really trust that you're doing okay. So right >> that's a really tough nut to crack to understand if you're doing it the right way. Um, but I think you've got to trust your gut, right? It's an interesting thing. I also feel like Emily, and I'd love to get your opinion about this, is that we don't talk about this enough in the in the nonprofit sector. We don't talk about trust. I mean, I think what we do when there's a problem and somebody's maybe done something unourred or we, you know, we observe, you know, an organization fail or whatever. But I'm wondering is this kind of one of those things that we all have to rethink and and start u reasserting or maybe it's asserting for the first time for some organizations like this is a core value or or do you feel like in our sector we're already doing that? >> Um that's a great question. I I think again if you just kind of bring it back to yourself and and what you do and you put out in your world for your own job and then think about other organizations. And so like I think about my job and I wouldn't sleep at night if I knew that the people I'm encouraging to to support my product didn't trust me. Um so it's it's like a it's a personal check-in and how how do you want to reach out to your supporters? How do you want to talk to your supporters so they feel that this is a genuine compelling organization to take your hard-earned dollars in an economy that we're in right now and support that organization and just just go with it with like a personal feeling and a personal touch. And I know we can't run our businesses on personal feelings, but I think that's a really strong um indicator of of trust is if I would support it, then then so should you. >> Right. I I like that you said that and I don't think I've ever had anybody on the nonprofit show um phrase it like that because it it makes it a lot more genuine. Like to hear you speak that way and to talk about it this way. Um it doesn't seem so transactional. It makes it seem like these relationships matter because the cause matters. >> Correct. Yeah. And you know it's like again we're all we're all chasing dollars. We all have have bills to pay and you know lights to keep on but it's a little bit different in in this world. And I think >> a lot of us aren't in the world of nonprofit for that almighty dollar, but we want our nonprofits to be successful to the best of their ability. And so knowing that you're getting dollars in a very genuine way, in a passionate way, in a trusting way, um, makes people dig a little bit deeper in their pockets. >> Yeah, I love that you said that. We don't have a lot of time left with you today, Emily, but I want to end up asking you about communications and trust. And when you think about communicating back to your donors, whether it's, you know, in real life or through social media or email or text, what's the value of reporting impact? And and is there a fine line between pushing out too much information or just a few pieces? like what are your thoughts on that is how we're we're communicating with our donors. >> Um that's a great question because I think depending on what I'm what I'm reading and what I'm learning is different demographics take that information in a different way and it's maybe not the way I thought it was going to be. So from our studies that we've done like Gen Z is doing a lot more digging into your annual reports and understanding where the money is going whereas maybe some other individuals that have been supporting your organization for 20 years take it for what it's worth and they just continue to support you. So it just depends again it can be on the person, it could be on the demographic. Um, I do think it's important not to be too have too much information, especially on your website. Um, that's like, um, how how do I want to describe this? Like just too wordy. Like, let them know the story. Let them know what you're doing and how you're impacting the community. U, make it easy for them to to support you. I think that we have so much and you you alluded to this in the very beginning of our conversation. We have so much sensory overload that um it can get just to be it's can be overwhelming. Um and I'm always I'm always like where's that fine line? Um and what I think of Emily and I'd love to get your opinion on this is like you know don't give all your information at one time. break it down, but then you can increase your frequency a little bit. >> How do you [laughter] how do you think about that? >> I think you want to make it as compelling as possible and as easy as possible for them to give to you the first time. Um, and I think of this, and I share this story often, like as a busy mom of three, and I hate the word busy because we're all busy. But as a mom of three, when I'm laying in bed at 11 o'clock at night, when I really want to go to sleep, that's when the lights turn on in my brain, like, oh my gosh, I've got to buy new soccer cleat. I need to do X, Y, and Z. I need to sign my kid up for this field trip, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And whenever I go to what we all have, you know, that big Amazon account where it's easy just to boom boom boom and you make that transaction. What do you know? It's there the next day. It made my life a lot easier. And not that nonprofits need to be Amazon because of course that's not what we're aiming for. But we want to make it easy and we want to make it compelling. So that when you when you do give that first gift, then you know, maybe that ties to an immediate thank you and a newsletter. And then maybe a month or two down the road, it's an invitation to an event in the event that you subscribe to wanting to go to events or a volunteer opportunity. So, it's like going on a first date. You don't want to put it all on the table at once. You want to give them something to look forward to. I love it, Emily. That's fabulous. Well, as always, you are great to talk with. >> I love that you you bring a national flavor and viewpoint. It's really cool that you get to I know it's got to be hard your travel and your engagement, you know, with different organizations around this country, but it's really cool that you get to be able to articulate what you've seen and what you're experiencing. Um, because it certainly can help so many of us in this nonprofit sector because this is a big deal and and to your point, if we don't start out now the correct way, we might not get a second chance. >> Right. That's heartbreaking. >> Right. Exactly. Well, I appreciate you saying that. I I really enjoy the the opportunity to speak to so many people um nationwide about their experience and then being able to share it with you and talk with you all and your audience and I'm just really grateful for the opportunity. >> Yeah. Well, it's we're grateful for the opportunity. We've been talking today with Emily Kelly. She's a national accounts manager with our friends over at Bloomerang. And Emily is really, this is a challenged day because Emily's kicking off nonprofit power week. And so this is a big ask, right? Because she's setting the tone for like this whole journey that we're on. And uh you've done a beautiful job. So thank you. I'm in great company. The there's a great lineup this week. So I I just get excited because the next one will just be as wonderful as the next. Yeah, it's really true. I mean, you started us off with that base issue of awareness and along the road mapap to creating a a jo a a donor journey, we're going to be talking with our friend Katie Geston about consideration and how a donor makes their decisions. And then Kristen Wantland um is going to really talk about that decision process and where it goes off the rails and how we can keep that positive relationship going and knowing what happens. And then James Golder is really going to deal in drill down into retention because this is one of the big secret plagues that we don't talk enough about in the nonprofit sector. And so this is going to be really really interesting to get his opinions. And then last but not least, we're going to wind up with uh Annne Felman talking about the giving season that we are moving into in Q4. So many nonprofits, this is that that make or break time. It's very stressful and as Emily and I were chatting, sometimes it leads you to be paralyzed to make a change or to try something new or to test something. And I think Ann's going to really say, look, you know, this is how we can make some adjustments and this is how we we can think about it. And so I think that's just a really great way to wrap up nonprofit power week with Bloomerang. So stick with us because it's a lot of information. It's going to be a lot of fun. We have amazing support from our friends at Bloomerang. They were one of our very very first um supporters when we started seven years ago and 1,600 episodes ago and along with American Nonprofit Academy, Staffing Boutique, JMT Consulting, Third Sector Company, Your Part-Time Controller, and Martis. Um these are the folks that join us day in and day out as we get to explore these really interesting topics as we have with Emily Kelly today. Emily, I don't know if you remember this, but every time we sign off from the nonprofit show, we have this mantra, and we've been saying it now for literally 1,600 episodes, and it's seven years. And it goes like this. To stay well so you can do well. We'll see you again. [music]