Video summary
In this discussion, Arthur Brooks draws upon the research of John and Julie Gottman to address how couples can overcome contempt and resentment within their relationships. The central argument presented is that strong societies rely on strong families, which in turn depend fundamentally on parents loving one another. According to the Gottmans' findings, the primary predictor of marital failure is not a lack of positive behaviors but rather the presence of specific negative actions, most notably treating each other with contempt. This concept extends beyond personal relationships into political science and psychology through "motive attribution asymmetry," where individuals believe they love their own group while perceiving that others hate them. Brooks illustrates how this cognitive distortion fuels implacable conflicts, such as civil wars or historical atrocities like the Holocaust, by dehumanizing opponents—comparing Nazis calling Jews vermin to couples viewing each other as worthless pathogens. The transcript explains that contempt is a toxic blend of anger and disgust, with disgust specifically triggering the insular cortex in the brain's response to perceived threats or diseases. When partners treat one another like pathogens through eye-rolling or dismissive language, they activate neural pathways associated with physical pain and social rejection, causing damage comparable to actual abuse. This physiological reaction creates a communication breakdown where spouses genuinely believe "I love you" while their actions transmit hatred, leading to the fatalistic belief that one partner loves but the other hates them. The Gottmans' laboratory research highlights that even subtle non-verbal cues like eye-rolling are sufficient to signal deep-seated contempt and drive couples toward divorce courts, effectively destroying the relationship through a habit of misattributed motives rather than genuine malice. A significant portion of the conversation addresses why many people allow their marriages to deteriorate while simultaneously excelling in their careers. Brooks argues that individuals often choose "specialness" over happiness because nature prioritizes survival and resource acquisition—traits honed at work—over emotional fulfillment found in domestic life. This dynamic creates a scenario where partners become addicted to the neurochemical rewards of professional excellence, viewing their career as safe and reliable while treating their partnership with mediocrity due to its perceived stagnation or boredom. The speaker notes that people often spend more time working because it offers growth and validation, whereas relationships require constant nurturing; if one leans into work for a rush similar to an adrenaline junkie's high, the relationship inevitably suffers as passion fades into mere companionship without sufficient effort to maintain adoration. To reverse these suboptimal habits, Brooks emphasizes that knowledge alone is insufficient without consistent practice rooted in neurophysiological connection. The solution involves consciously avoiding contemptuous behaviors and actively engaging through touch and eye contact to rebuild intimacy. He suggests that couples must recognize the danger of allowing their careers to become so absorbing that they neglect their partners, noting that while a career cannot leave you behind, a partner can walk away if neglected. Ultimately, maintaining a healthy relationship requires balancing being admirable in one's work with remaining adoring toward one's spouse. By acknowledging that success addiction often leads to mediocrity at home and understanding the biological impact of contempt, couples can choose to prioritize their connection over professional accolades, ensuring they remain both special enough for society but happy enough within their own families.
Read the full video transcript
How can people better overcome contempt,
resentment? You've had John Gottman on
your podcast, right? Not yet. I'm
Gotman. Julie and John Gottman. I've
actually um I've I've talked to them
before. They're phenomenal. They're
they're visionary. They're actually
heroes because anybody any good
societies, any strong society is based
on strong families obviously. And strong
families require this one element which
is mom and dad loving each other. You
know, that's how that's what families
have in common is that two parents who
who love each other. And they've they've
saved thousands of marriages. thousands
of it's unbelievable. And the number one
thing that really jumps out of their
research is that they find the marriage
killers. So in other words, not what to
do right, what to stop doing wrong.
That's that's how you start anything. If
you go to the doctor and say, "Ah man, I
think I drink too much." He's not going
to put you on something to treat the
trouble with your drinking. He's going
to tell you to drink, stop drinking very
beginning. So that's what they talked
about things to stop doing. And the
number one thing gets to the crux of
your question, which is to stop treating
each other with contempt. Now there's a
whole concept in the it's actually in
the political science literature but it
it's it's a psychological concept called
motive attribution asymmetry. Do you
know about this? Is this why Nazis
called Jews vermin? Yes. So good nice
boy. You're good. You really know a lot
about this stuff. So motivation symmetry
says I love but they hate right. And so
therefore it's related to the idea that
you will with contempt you'll call you
know the the hoous call the tootsies
cockroaches and and the you know the the
the German Nazis called the Jews rats
for example. That's because you can
other them in that particular way. But
it's based on this idea that I love
Germany and they hate Germany. They're
the other and they don't love us. They
hate and I love in an implacable
conflict not just a genocidal situation
but an implacable conflict like a civil
war. Both sides believe that they love
and the other side hates. That's the
Middle East. No, no, no. I love I I you
know, it's like I love my people and I
love this place and they just hate us.
And both sides think that and that's
based on an error because both sides
can't simultaneously love and hate. And
so so that the the central idea behind
that is if you have an implacable
conflict that's leading to schism that
you're going to find that error behind
it. Motive attribution symmetry. I'm not
trying to sort out world, you know,
conflict, but I can sort out a lot of
couples going to Yeah. And almost all
marital marital disillusion comes from
from mode of attribution asymmetry. So
you you take a couple that's on their
way to divorce court, he'll be like,
"No, I still love her, but she hates
me." And she'll be like, "No, I'm the
one who loves. He's the one who acts
like he hates." And the reason is
because they're behaving in a
contemptuous way that says, "You're
worthless." And I do think I do hate you
even though you don't feel that way.
It's a it's a John John and Julie Gutman
there. One of their central insights is
that we we we communicate so poorly
because we're transmitting hatred when
we don't feel it. Why why would that be
adaptive? That it's it's it's not clear
why it's adaptive, but it's a is
certainly is a habit. And so what and
the habit is basically so he'll look at
a couple that he's met just now, talk to
them for an hour and watch them in the
laboratory discussing something of great
contention. And he'll want to see if
they're rolling their eyes because eye
rolling is a is a real physical
manifestation of contempt. Now contempt
is two negative emotions blended
together. Anger and disgust. Anger is a
hot emotion that's not correlated with
divorce. Thank God with my marriage to a
Spaniard.
Um, disgust is is is a response to a
pathogen in the insular cortex of the
brain. The insula of the brain retreat.
And what it says is that's a pathogen
that might poison you. That's what all
we had before antibiotics and vaccines
was the insular cortex that gave us a
sense of disgust. So that piece of
chicken in back of the fridge that you
forgot about, you're like, never, never,
never, never treat another person like a
pathogen. This gets us back to the Nazi
thing that you talked about before. When
you treat somebody like a pathogen, the
way that you stimulate the insular
cortex in an entire population is by
talking about them in terms of disgust
to stimulate that part of the brain. As
such, making them utterly anathema and
worthy of the greatest barbarity
justifies mistreatment. That's exactly
right. Because it's the same way that
you'd throw away you'd you'd hose off
your shoes after stepping in something
awful or or you'd throw away something
that's rotted in your fridge or you'd
kill somebody who's an actual pathogen
in your society by talking about them in
this pathogenic way stimulating this
very very volatile part of the brain.
Okay, take those two things and put them
together. That's contempt. When you
express contempt for somebody, that's
interpreted as hatred. And that's what
people do when they get into these
suboptimal routines in their marriage.
And they'll be like, "You always say
that." Really? Really? Again, sweetie?
Really? And she interprets that as he
thinks what I said is worthless. He
thinks I'm worthless. And that's what
leads to this communication breakdown of
I love but she hates. No, I love he
hates. and then you get divorced. People
can literally get divorced because they
don't know that their eye rolling is
expressing hatred for their partner
which is almost in a way that when you
get hatred from another person that
you're supposed to love that is as
painful in the lyic system of the brain
as physical abuse. It's the same part of
the brain. That's the dorsal interior
singulate cortex in the in the lyic
system that's affected when you're being
rejected. M that's what that's what
motivates social rejection and sadness.
That's the that's the the affective part
of all pain as a matter of fact that
comes from that and is super acute when
you're getting and you don't say all he
did roll my eyes. No, no, no. You spoke
volumes that you didn't think that you
were you didn't even mean it. And so
what he does is what they do in the
Gottman marriage lab is they treat they
teach people here's the beautiful thing
about it. Most couples just need to say
what they really think, which is
actually I love you. I really, really
love you. Really? Well, I really, really
love you, too. So, let's not
accidentally be telling each other that
we hate each other. That's where how the
contempt comes in. And that's one of the
examples of suboptimal habits that can
ruin a relationship. And if you can turn
that around, and how do you do that?
Knowledge and practice. The knowledge is
don't do it. The practice is touch and
eye contact. M and then life gets
better. What else is some of the
sub-optimal habits of
couples? Um number one is well I mean
the anything that actually uh pulls
people apart so they have insufficient
contact neurohysiologically insufficient
contact with each other is going to
create a real problem. And so, for
example, um what you'll find is the
habit of doing what you're really really
good at as opposed to what you're
getting worse at. People will be getting
they'll be losing their relationship
chops while they're getting better in
their careers. And so, they're spending
a lot more time. One of the reasons they
spend a lot more time at work is that's
what they're better at and that's where
they're getting their satisfaction. I I
had this I got to interject. I had this
insight a couple of weeks ago about um
why
people commit themselves to their
careers more than they commit themselves
to their partnerships. Yeah. The reason
being that only you can leave your
career, but not only you can leave your
partnership. And there is this sense of
safety. It's like if I just keep
grinding away on this, I'll probably get
better. I'll probably grow. But the same
isn't true because my career isn't going
to leave me. Yeah. But my partner might.
Yeah. And and that's one of the things
that you find is that your career will
never keep you warm, but your spouse
will. You're saying that people who make
a trade where uh they get a job that is
um an additional hour commute there I'm
back 5 days a week right uh because it's
a better job title or they think that
it's going to give them fulfillment or
validation or whatever it'll make them
special and that's the special versus
happy. A lot of people will choose
specialness over happiness. Why the
world wants you to wants you to be
special wants you to stand out. The
world mother nature wants you to be
special. Mother nature does not care if
you're happy, Chris. She does not care.
She wants you to survive and pass on
your genes. And when you're really
excellent and outstanding and getting
more resources and getting better at
your job, you're going to be more
special, but you will be less happy. And
that's why people will become will walk
into mediocrity in their in their
marriage while they're walking toward
excellence in their work. And the result
is they're going to be less happy.
They're just going to be less happy.
Yeah. And by the way, guilty, man.
Guilty. Guilty. I'm a I'm I'm completely
success addicted. 16 books deep
15. Anyway,
it's it's I'm addicted to success and
and and there's all this interesting
neuroscience on success addiction. You
know, when people are told, you know,
usually good good students who are also
good athletes as kids and they get all
their validation from parents and that
gives them this neurochemical reward
from from you're such a hard worker and
that's another good report card and
they're looking for the next gold star
for their whole lives. These are the
people when they get past the flush of a
relationship and it starts to become a
little bit boring, then they'll just
like lean in to this to the specialness.
they'll lean into the the the the
the agilation that actually comes from
excellence in their work and let their
and let their marriage become utterly
mediocre, right? They've kind of become
um adrenaline junkies or whatever the
particular hormone of neurochemical of
choice is junkies and the relationship
is no longer able to compete and now
that you're out of passion and into
companionette, it's not giving you quite
the same rush. The progress isn't there.
you know, you've kind of you've retire
you've retired from the growth, the
rushy growth, but the career can
continue to give you that. And you might
be very admirable. You might be really
really admirable. The problem is that
you're not adoring
that you're you've stopped adoring
because all you've again there's two
things you need to do, guys. You need to
be you need to be adoring and admirable.
And if you do 100% admirable and 0%
adoring, you're going to lose your
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