Video summary
The podcast features Brett Cooper discussing country singer Kelsey Ballerini and her recent EP, *Roll Up the Welcome Mat*, which chronicles her divorce in 2022 at age 30 after a disagreement over having children. Their husband was seven years older than she was; he wanted to settle down immediately while she prioritized her career. Although they had frozen eggs as part of their plan for Kelsey's thirtieth birthday, her husband refused the idea, leading to an amicable but public split that propelled Ballerini into mainstream success with a raw and honest musical narrative about heartbreak. Following this breakthrough, Ballerini has experienced rapid career growth, including dating actor Chase Suihans from *Outer Banks* and releasing new singles like "I Sit in Parks." In the latter track, she expresses deep regret over missing out on motherhood while watching other families enjoy picnics with their children. The song highlights her internal conflict between enjoying professional freedom and feeling that it is too late to start a family naturally at 33. This emotional vulnerability has resonated strongly with female listeners who feel they made similar choices, sparking widespread discussions about whether financial independence truly replaces the sense of belonging found in traditional motherhood or if avoiding parenthood was a mistake driven by fear rather than genuine preference. Cooper addresses the broader cultural tension surrounding women's reproductive timelines and the harmful narratives often propagated regarding aging single mothers. He critiques right-wing rhetoric that suggests women hit an insurmountable biological wall at age 30, arguing instead that while fertility declines, it does not cease entirely; his mother gave birth to him at 42 as proof of possibility. However, he acknowledges that assisted reproductive technologies are not magic and come with limitations. He also notes the irony in how society reacts when high-profile figures like Taylor Swift get engaged or Millie Bobby Brown adopts a child shortly after marrying young, which challenges the "child-free" movement but validates romantic ideals for many women who previously felt alienated by such choices. The conversation further explores the concept of toxic empathy within online communities, where supporting other single mothers can sometimes devolve into militant anti-men sentiment or body-shaming when celebrities like Adele lose weight or Taylor Swift marries. Cooper argues that while messages emphasizing self-sufficiency and not needing a man are empowering in theory, they often lack nuance regarding the genuine desire for partnership versus desperation. He suggests that true empowerment comes from entering relationships from a place of abundance rather than fear, noting that figures like Timothée Chalamet have recently expressed sadness over the normalization of choosing childlessness as an identity marker, signaling a potential cultural shift away from viewing parenthood solely through a lens of obligation or regret. Ultimately, Cooper concludes that pop culture icons play a significant role in shaping societal attitudes toward family and gender roles, influencing young women who are emotionally swayed by these narratives. He rejects the notion that individual choices regarding marriage and children do not matter on a macro level, asserting that the stories told by artists like Ballerini and Swift can create ripples affecting birth rates and demographic trends over time. The discussion ends with an emphasis on celebrating diverse life paths while remaining cautious about dismissing the deep emotional needs for connection and family that many women still harbor despite societal pressures to prioritize career or independence above all else.
Read the full video transcript
Have you heard uh Kelsey Ballerini's new
song?
>> No. What's that? Who's that?
>> Okay, so Kelsey Ballerini
um she had her EP, Roll Up the Welcome
Mat, country singer. She's from
Tennessee.
Um she went through a divorce in 2022.
Uh I believe her husband was Morgan
Evans. They got married young. They had
a very very public breakup and she wrote
an EP about it that basically exploded
her career. and she was always like a
relatively okay, well-known country
singer, like I listened to her growing
up, but she was nothing huge. This took
her mainstream. She wrote an incredibly
raw EP
>> about her divorce.
>> And in one song, I think it was Blind
Side, Blind Spot, something like that.
She talks about one of the reasons for
their divorce was that he was ready to
settle down and have kids. She He's 7
years older than her and she wasn't. And
she wanted to focus on her career. And
he had had a bit more of a successful
career at the beginning of their
marriage. She was, you know, sort of
catching up. She was not ready for that.
And they publicly talked about this. She
gave the interview. She actually went on
call her daddy and she said the children
conversation was it. And they apparently
went out to dinner
>> and she told her then husband my 30th
birthday present to myself and us is
going to be I'm going to freeze my eggs
cuz I know I'm not ready but I know you
want to have kids and I'm going to
freeze my eggs. And her husband was like
absolutely not. Like I want to have
children now. I am ready to settle down.
>> So they split up.
>> She was 30. He was 37,
>> I believe. So, yes. She was 29, about to
turn 30 when they got forced. And it
also seems like maybe they weren't super
compatible. There were other things
there, but that was the crux. So, now
she's had this incredible success. It
has been this wild ride. She's dating
the guy from Outer Banks. They had this
like, you know, fairy tale love story.
She's writing all these songs about him.
She's winning all of these awards. She's
very much in like the she's just like
exploded out of national country and now
she is extremely mainstream. She
released a surprise single
five days ago called I sit in parks. And
the entire story there is that she goes,
what the song says, she goes and she sit
in sits in parks and she watches
families have picnics and play with her
kids, swinging on swings and she's
sitting there hitting her vape and
saying she literally talks about that
and saying, "I want that." And is is it
too late?
>> How old is she now?
>> 33.
>> Wow. Is she still with the guy? This new
guy.
>> Yeah.
>> Um they almost they broke up but then
they got back together. There was this
whole thing. They were in Yeah. So yeah,
>> tumultuous It's not the same
as being in a relationship with a guy
that you were going to get married to.
>> They were. But it see but they were for
like two and a half years and then they
had a bit of a breakup. Now it seems
like they might be back together. But
she released the song and she's saying I
sit in parks and I wonder if this mom
wants my freedom like I want to be a
mother and I wonder if it's too late.
and she says, "Rolling Stone says that
I'm on the right path, but I wonder if
I've, you know, sacrificed my future."
And then at the end, she's kind of like,
"Oh, well, this is the life that I've
created for myself." And she goes, "My
friend is due in March. My album's due
in April, so I'll go refill my Lexa Pro
and I'll get back to work."
And it is so incredibly raw, but it's
the timeline of that that she was
divorced only three years ago because
she wasn't ready to have kids. She had
this mountain of success, everything
that she wanted, and now she's sitting
here and going, "Shit." Like, and did
did I did I wait too long? And I'm
guessing that she wrote this when she
and the boyfriend were on a break,
whatever it was.
But the women who are relating to that,
if you look on social media, the success
of the song, I mean, the comments are
heartbreaking. It's all these women
going, I don't know if I made the right
decision. I thought I did all the right
things. I focused on my career. I've
emphasized, you know, that I haven't
found
>> abundance, financial security.
>> Yeah. [gasps]
>> Look, I mean, it's kind of trite to say
it because it's been I've I've talked
about it so much, so have you. Um, but I
do think we're getting into a slight new
era now, which is
asking the question,
is there a way to shortcut the unteable
lesson of financial independence will
not give you the sense of belonging that
you want as a young woman?
>> Um, and I understand that it feels very
safe and secure rather than having
yourself be a financial prisoner of some
guy. Yeah,
>> I mean women out earn men up to the age
of like 30 or 31 still at the moment by
a couple of grand a year. So I think
that's really an issue at least to that
point.
>> That's a something they're concocting up
in their minds
>> to a degree. Yeah. Um or that you
wouldn't be able to go back to work, you
wouldn't be able to go back to your
career. I think that that paternity
problem, maternity leave, I get it. All
of all of those issues. But asking
yourself the question like is it
actually worth it to avoid the very
thing that most women have been working
toward? Like what's the financial
independence for just to like Chelsea
handle your way through the rest of
life? I don't think that that's the
case. And um
>> it's an FU to men.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm going to
uh
>> It's saying I don't need you. Well, it's
it's assuring your failure privately to
be able to stick the middle finger up at
men publicly.
>> Um, yeah, I don't need you and I will be
a miserable
>> uh flag bearer for this movement. U, but
it's just it's a really unpopular
perspective to take. So, the fact that
the comments was sort of with other
women who had done the same thing, but
the
>> it's kind of the same as um being body
positive. It's like it's toxic empathy.
that it's the optics of this argument
are much more sexy than the reality of
it.
>> Right? The optics of the argument are um
you don't need a man. You are enough as
you are already. You don't need to uh
wait to be chosen by him. In fact, you
don't need to be chosen at all. You and
your friends and your girlies and your
vibrator are enough to get you through
the next however many decades of your
life. And maybe he'll come along, but if
he doesn't, you don't need to worry. And
like that is a really supportive and
caring message if you take it without
the sort of militant anti-men
perspective on it which is
>> you are enough as you are. And wouldn't
that be a wonderful place to get into a
relationship from as opposed to one from
desperation?
>> You're sharing it with somebody.
>> Yeah. And also that you don't make the
the sort of decision out of uh
desperation like I'm going to pick this
person because I want a person not
because I want that person.
>> Uh understood. That doesn't tend to be
the way that it's delivered. I saw this.
I went onto the uh childfree subreddit.
>> That's a that's a dark place.
>> When uh Taylor Swift got engaged
>> meltdown,
>> they were not happy. And there was some
I was like real impressed with most of
the balance on there. There was some
insane ones. One of the most insane ones
was basically like I can't believe that
she would get into a relationship with
that monster, that animal, like
referring because it made me the way
that he presents or what they think
about his politics or whatever it might
be. Um, but yeah, people in the same way
as Adele's weight loss was a threat to
the body positivity community, Taylor
Swift's engagement was a threat to the
child-free community.
>> Oh, it absolutely was.
>> Um,
>> and the fact that now all these things
are coming out saying, "Oh, they're
going to get married relatively quickly.
Allegedly, they want to start a family.
That's really important." But I also
think, and this is something that was so
funny to me,
>> is I talked about this obviously and I
was, you know, reading those same
comments and the same posts and they
were outlandish and absurd. But if you
look at Taylor Swift's discoraphy, you
look at her music, everything she's
written,
she always wanted,
>> she's a romantic.
>> She is like, that's the thing. And they
were like, she's betrayed us. I'm like,
I don't think she has. She's People
mocked her for years because she went
from boyfriend to boyfriend, but she
wasn't in she didn't have many flings.
Like she was wholeheartedly in love with
these guys, writing these songs. I'm
going to marry you. I marry you with
paper rings. I'm still thinking about
you all these years later. M
>> that's what she wants. Like have you not
actually been listening to her music?
Have you just liked the fact that she I
think that's what it comes down to is
have you liked the fact that she has
been so unlucky in love and it has made
you feel better about your situation and
that has validated your choice.
>> Yeah.
>> And now you have to face the music
literally
>> that she's happy and she's finally
gotten what she wants. And I I think
another thing that weaves into this
conversation about women is something
that I do think that has been harmful
coming from more of the rightwing is
this like women hit a wall conversation.
>> Obviously there is a biological clock
that you have to consider. But saying
that a woman at 30 years old has peaked,
has no future, no prospects, can never
have any children anymore. I think
that's such a harmful thing to tell
young women, especially if you're having
if you have a woman who's come up in the
era of, you know, the child-free type
folks of the Alex Coopers who then is
having her mind changed and is looking
for something. And what she's hearing
from so many prominent men male voices,
I think they're less prominent now. Um,
is that you're too old, you've hit a
wall, you're ugly, nobody will ever want
you, you've screwed up your entire life.
>> It's like that's not the way to address
that. And I think Taylor Swift was kind
of a middle finger to that movement as
well cuz she's 33 years old.
>> One of the most eligible bachelors in
America.
>> Yeah. And she's happy and it worked. And
I look at, you know, Kelsey Valerini and
I understand, you know, at 33 years old,
she's going, "H, this is, you know, I
don't have much time left, but in 10
years, obviously don't waste those, but
it's not like you're 50. It's I
>> think you should be I think you should
be cautious about the 10 years thing. Uh
I think
>> I guess with
>> fertility treatments are great but even
they are not they're not magic and
>> I think it comes from personal my mom
had me at 42.
>> Yes. My mom had me relatively late as
well. Uh but
>> is on a decline.
>> Correct. Um I I get the sense that
>> and this is
>> my least impressive strategy to fix the
birth rate. Uh I think that Taylor Swift
will have a nonzero impact on the West's
birthright.
>> Okay. Like I think when she has if she
has kids, I think that that causes a
cascade of sufficient size that there
will be a noticeable bump. If you were
to look at the the sort of demographics
of that, I think the sort of
>> 2, three, four years after that, I think
you are going to see a tick
>> in that. Um
>> well, and culture is shifting. I mean,
you have, you know, her, you have Kelsey
Ballerini. Um, Millie Bobby Brown got
married very young to Jake Bonjovi and
they just adopted a baby less than a
year after getting married and she's
very open about, you know, this is
everything she's ever wanted. She's
incredibly happy. She's pract, you know,
protecting this baby girl's privacy. Um,
Timothy Shalamé very recently was saying
that he feels what was he was like he
feels like it's
I'm trying to remember the exact word he
used but basically he was saying that it
is very depressing when people talk
about not wanting children and he's
surrounded by a lot of people who do
have children and are starting families
and he thinks that's really wonderful
>> and he was essentially saying I think
it's a marker of a very sad society if
we are now saying that it's empowering
to state that you're not going to have
children and that you don't care. So,
we're seeing these shifts and I think
that's one thing where I think
conservatives are better at this now,
but where they've said, you know, ignore
pop culture. We're not going to be
involved in that. It's like, no, they
these people do influence culture. They
influence society. They influence the
attitudes, especially of young women
>> who are far more emotional and who lean
on these figures. That's just an
objective fact. Um, who are more um
emotionally swayed. Those are important
changes and I think those are worth
celebrating and looking into. So I've
had some people when I've done episodes
about that or talked about it, they say
like, "Brett, it doesn't matter." I'm
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Thank you very much for tuning in. If
you enjoyed that little mere teaser with
Brett Cooper, full episode is available
to watch right here.
Come on.