The Psychology Behind Why Successful People Always Become Targets — Dr. Gad Saad

You literally had a tweet go hyper viral about Tucker Carlson. Yes. >> So, if you had to be specific about the beliefs that he holds that you find concerning, what would they be? >> I mean, he seems to have a bit of a maybe slightly nefarious focus on uh the Jews or in Arabic as we say the Yahood. Yahood, which is Jews in Arabic. You know, I know a lot of guys in in uh the Kabad organization uh and I can assure you that in no meetings that I've ever been a part of were they discussing how uh the start of a war with Iran will bring about their esqueological beliefs. And so I >> that's what he's claimed. >> I think he's claimed so I don't want to misspeak but I think his latest sort of con you know weaving of a conspiracy theory is that Khabad has certain religious views. What is Habad? >> Kabad is a organization, a Jewish organization that is typically uh led by Kabad rabbis who are under the Lub, you know, the Lubovich. You know what that is? No. >> It they're they're an Orthodox uh Jewish Orthodox community. >> Okay. Their main man was Rabbi Schneersen who was a uh rabbi out of I think he's out of Brooklyn uh who passed away maybe 10-15 years ago. Many of them believe that he is the Messiah that the Jews are waiting for. Yes. Some do, some don't. But really what they are, and that's what I tried to explain in the article that I wrote that you referred to, they really provide a I hate the expression it sounds woke, but they provide a space for Jews to reconnect with their identities. So for example, in my case, my experience with Kabad, I was a doctoral student at Cornell. Uh at the time, I don't know what it is now, but at the time there was a very sizable Jewish community at Cornell. >> Uh we're all students looking for a hot meal. Uh we're poor students. Certainly, as a graduate student, I didn't have much money. >> Here is this beautiful home where you can go have Shabbat dinner. Uh the rabbi is going to mention one or two moral stories or parables, but it's nothing hardcore religious. uh his wife, the rabbi that I'm speaking of at Cornell, his name was or is Rabbi Ellie Silverstein, his do his his wife was a doctoral student with me. We took uh psychology class together. Uh she did her PhD in developmental psychology. >> Uh and it's just bunch of Jews hanging around and connecting with their heritage, home away from home, so to speak, >> right? Tucker has beef with these guys like >> he has he he has I don't know how what is the genesis of the story but it turns out that it's really the Kabad organization that's behind you know that's puppeteering the the US foreign policy. Uh and so you know uh Donald Trump is saying oh let me let me call the rabbis. Uh they're an incredibly sweet, pure group of guys who are and they're not, you know, in Judaism you don't procilitize, right? I mean, here you don't have to procilitize. We're all Jewish. But they're not you better get back to the religion. You better do this. They just want to make sure that everybody has a Jewish place where they can go and hang out. >> In my case, and it's something that I'm very uh proud to share. I don't know. Do you know what putting on the is? >> No. So when you have your bar mitzvah at the age of 13, there is a ritual that you then do technically forever more once you've become a man at 13 is you you you have these scrolls that you kind of wrap around your your arm and you also put on your head and then you take the tal the and you put over and there's there are some prayers that you do, right? which many of us would do it around the bar mitzvah and then very quickly it fades away and in my case it had faded away till I was leaving Cornell in my late 20s >> Rabbi Ellie comes to me he goes you know you're you're a lovely guy you have a pure Jewish soul can you make me a promise I'm like uh oh here comes the ask here comes the ask for all those Shabbat dinners uh he said can you just promise me that you'll put on feline every day moving forward just as Okay. You know, reconnecting with your Jewish identity and so on. I said, "Okay, Rabbi, I'll do it." And from 1994, which is when I got my PhD >> till about 2005, for 11 years, I put it on. And typically, that's quite a uh, you know, hefty commitment to to your religiosity to put it on, but he managed to do it in a very sweet, non-dogmatic way. Just I just do it for me, please, God. And so, that's who these guys are. And then you got Tucker saying that it's these guys who are these, you know, completely meek, you know, Jewish rabbis that are puppeteering foreign policy in the Middle East. Come on, man. >> Okay. Well, so those are the specifics of Habad, but is there something that we can glean about either what's going on in culture or more specifically what's going on with Tucker given what his audience wants from him? like the the tweet to me felt like, listen, Tucker used to be a normal guy. He's now bending anti-semitic. You weren't that blunt, but if I can just cut to the chase, >> that's what it felt like. And so I'm I see society bending towards anti-semitism. I've got a whole like civilizational arc take on why that happens. It's this thing that repeats throughout history. Um, but I'm curious like what do you think like his turn is? Why is he going down that path? And if if you don't have a specific take on Tucker and it really is just questions, >> um >> do you agree that we're bending towards anti-semitism? If so, why? >> So, let's start with the last part first. Undoubtedly, yes. Uh I can't remember when was the last time that I came on. I don't know if it was after or before October 7th, but I can assure you >> it was after >> after October 7th. >> You hadn't gotten signed with Old Miss yet. >> Yet. Okay. >> But >> but it was in the works. in the last two years, let's say, >> um, I say I mean I somewhat flippantly, but I I think I'm being literal. Uh, >> I long for the good old days of Jew hatred of the Lebanese civil war given some of the stuff that I see today. It's just it's it I mean, part of it is because you're protected from the anonymity on on online, you know, social media, so people can just spew all kinds of nonsense at you, but it really it takes your breath away. And I mean, I'm I have thick skin. I've seen it all. It it amazes me to see what people feel. I that person who is levying these things at me is maybe my dentist. He's maybe my gardener. He's maybe the kindergarten teacher. I mean, I don't know. And so >> unequivocally and unassalably, it's grotesque what's happening in the west, never mind in Islamic countries and so on. Regarding Tucker, I mean, in the article that I wrote, I proposed if but I was very tepid and very respectful and polite. It wasn't incendiary. >> Yeah. Yeah. Not at all. >> Yeah. One was could it be pecuniary things? It was money. Is it Qatar? Is people are calling him Qatar or whatever the name they use. >> Now it is true that he left Fox and then was started and set up his own media company and suddenly he's got a house in. So it would be very easy for people to say that could be it. I I don't know if it is whether he had a bent on of anti-semitism in the past. I certainly would have never seen it because my experiences with him were always unbelievably uh warm. It's not like he didn't know that I was Jewish. >> I do feel though that there is a side of Tucker and if he's watching I I I'm very >> He's an avid watcher of the show. He comments more than most people. Yeah. >> Okay, perfect. Uh okay. Okay. Well, Tucker, please don't be offended then. Uh, but he is a bit of a dogmatic dogmatic kind of conspiracy type of guy. So, let me give you an example. He had invited me on his long form show which is filmed in this case out of Florida several years ago. >> And when we sit down, the first thing he says is, you know, professor, your evolutionary stuff, I mean, it explains everything. I was like, "Oh, that that's great that he's saying this because of course I think so, too." Then I can see him on Joe Rogan where he says, and I'll I'll try to imitate his affectation, but I'm not a very good mimic. Everybody knows that evolution is false obviously, right? Right? And you're thinking, but wait a minute. I remember two years ago when I basically apply the lens of evolution to explain the evolution of your most important organ, which happens to be your brain, and you seem to think that it was such a powerful explanatory mechanism. How is it that two years later you're on Tucker saying, "But everybody knows that evolution has been falsified." Well, there's a shitload of scientists that are colleagues of mine that better find out real soon that it's all a hoax because Tucker Carlson, you know, has said that it's it's [ __ ] >> right? >> So, that's the kind of or I'll give you another one. He he's always very respectful to me. Professor Sad, Dr. S., then I see him on the show. He's like, if you haven't cured a cold, I don't know why someone would call themselves doctor. He wasn't talking to me, >> right? And I'm thinking, how does an educated person you you think that Albert Einstein did did not deserve that title? By the way, if we're going to get into the ethmology, the the the name the word the title doctor was assured by medical by physicians. It it comes from doser, which in Latin means to teach, a learned person. So the original doctors, for example, the doctors of the church were not physicians. So he will often say something that takes me back. What what what was that? >> But I thought that's part of his charm, his bombast his >> performance >> performance. He's hyperbolic. And I'm like I'm I'm down with that. I love it. >> But then when it flipped to the Jew stuff, I'm like, I don't know, man. And I I was so torn. And I I hope that the article picked that up because I really truly have a code of conduct where I don't like to come after someone that I know personally that's invited me to their space. >> So, it's going to take a lot more before the honey badger comes out. >> Sure. >> But then I started feeling >> I might be inauthentic and I may not be the truth defender if I never say anything. So, I try to strike the right balance in that article. We'll be right back with the show, but first, let's talk about how exposed you really are. Let's say you cut someone off in traffic. They're furious. They snap a photo of your license plate. 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What that says about where we're at on the timeline in terms of whether it's Israel or Jewish people, whatever. But there's like a heavy bent towards okay the US government is being manipulated by Israel. That's become I don't know if I can go all the way to mainstream position but it's becoming a very common refrain that I hear a lot. >> Uh and so if you had to build up from first principles why this is a like repeating thing throughout history. How do you explain using either an evolutionary lens or just first principles thinking? How do you explain the cycle of anti-semitism? >> Right. So there are this the the usual suspects as sources of Jew hatred. There are theological sources in Christianity and certainly in Islam. You probably know those. So we So let me introduce a new angle that is more relevant from a psychological perspective. So we may or may not in the past you and I have discussed the self-serving bias. Have we talked about this? Does that ring a bell? >> I think so. >> Okay. So but let me just repeat it because it's relevant to what you're asking. The self-serving bias is a way by which you uh ascribe causality to either successes or failures in your life. So, and most people, hence the self-serving bias, ascribe successes internally and failures externally. So, I did really well in the business because I'm a very shrewd and smart entrepreneur. I did very poorly in the business because consumers are idiots who don't recognize the brilliance of my mind. Yeah. Okay. And most people to the extent that they have to go through a difficult life uh will put on that rosecolored uh lens to navigate through the difficulties of life. And I get it. Now let's apply that to Jew hatred. Literally every single malady that you could think of throughout history, but certainly let's say in the Middle East where I come from is attributed to the Jews. And I'll give you some that sound like they're being humorous, but they're not. They're literal. In 2010 in Egypt, in a a resort town in Sinai desert in the Red Sea called Shahek, there were some shark attacks on tourists that resulted in a panic in in that resort town and a drop in tourism. It was sharks. They were fish. >> Do you know who was at the root of those fish attacks? >> I have a guess. They were Jewish sharks. They were Zionist sharks. You can go on Google later and see that, you know, the Egyptian ministry of whatever said that they have very in convincing evidence that it was the Jews who did this. There is a website that you can go to that lists all the Jewish animals that have done attacks on humans. It could be squirrels, could be raccoons, it could be dogs, all linked back to Jews. But if we get out of the animal kingdom, if your wife cheats on you, God forbid, It's probably because she learned about this through viewing porn that those lascivious thoughts went into her head. Who controls the porn industry? It's the Jews. The trans stuff that we see, who was the starters of this? Oh, it's somehow linked to the Frankfurt school and relativism and that those were all Jews. >> Okay, let me ask a pointed question. If Jews didn't exist, would this sort of weird bias go away or would we just insert somebody else? >> Uh, very good question. No, there is something specific about the Jews, and I'll explain why. So, so it would literally go away. >> It or or at least it would be a lot less powerful as an explanation. The Jews are perfectly engineered to be the existential culprits of >> That's what I want to get to. What What is the architecture in the mind and what makes them perfectly engineered? >> We're going to get to it. Okay. So, self-s serving bias. All successes internal, all failures external. My wife cheated on me. It's because of the Jew external. So to your question, why is the Jew the culprit of all individual and societal failures? So here, >> if I borrow the term from Amy Chua, who's actually the mentor of JD Vance at Yale, she's a professor of law at Yale. She wrote a probably her most famous book is uh Tiger Mom. Do you remember that book? It was a New York Times >> I didn't read it, but Yes, I know it. >> Yeah. Okay. So, she talks about market dominant minorities. Okay. >> Right. Now, there are many to your question, there are many groups of people who are a minuscule minority in a larger ecosystem but really punch above their weight class. >> But no group is remotely as close in meeting that reality throughout all of history in nearly every ecosystem that they go to than the Jews. So the Jews are largely in the diaspora until Israel now in 1948. And yet they are our surgeons. They are our top lawyers. They are our top Hollywood filmmakers. They are the top this, top that. Right >> now we can discuss later why there is this Jewish excellence. Of course there's a genetic argument that people don't like. Or we can even do a cultural argument. >> Hit me with it. >> Okay. The genetic argument would be that Jews are just smarter than on average. There are a lot of IQ studies that places them on top with some Asian groups, but really on top. Okay, but I'm going to I'm going to ignore that one. Let's do the cultural angle. Okay, let's suppose you have a culture that says if you study hard, you're acting white and it is a form of performative white supremacy. It doesn't take a fancy professor to tell you that's probably not a good recipe for success >> aggressively. Okay, now let's let's let's do the Jews. I did an undergraduate in mathematics and computer science. So I was no slouch. Okay. Then I did an MBA. I'm mentioning this not to brag about CV because it's relevant to the story. >> Sure. >> So I did an undergrad, then an MBA, then I was going on to pursue my PhD. One of the places that I was thinking of doing my PhD, I ended up going to Cornell was I had been invite uh accepted at UC Irvine. My brother at the time lived in Newport Beach. So, I come down to visit UC Irvine and my brother is trying to convince me to maybe take a break after my MBA and put on the proverbial suit and work with him. He's 10 years older than me and you know, you'll get some experience and then if you decide to go back to do your PhD, that's great. I wasn't at all interested in not pursuing my PhD, but my mother caught wind of my brother's attempts to try to dissuade me from pursuing my PhD right away. When I return to Montreal and I'm visiting them at their house, my mother, you know, ushers me into a room. I I want to talk to you. Oh, sh I'm in trouble. What's going on? What's up, mom? She goes, I I hear that you're thinking about uh not doing your PhD. Before I could finish and answer, "No, no, don't. I'm I'm going to do my PhD." She's like, "Do you know how how how much shame that would bring? Do you want people to remember you as somebody who dropped out of school? So let's go back. >> Having done an undergraduate mathematics, computer science and MBA and then leaving, taking a break to pursue my PhD at Cornell would bring incredible shame and people would look at you as the illiterate buffoon that you truly are. >> Right? >> That's >> Luna. I hope you're listening right now. >> That's the level of excellence. So it it now we can also do a historical analysis of why the Jews are so into learning. One argument that many historians have proposed, well, you can't own land, you can't own anything, but you could own the knowledge that's in your brain, which you could then transport wherever next you're forced to flee. >> So, put all those together, it becomes unbelievably easy for me to look at the diabolical Jew who's who's creating the architecture of why I'm failing. >> Okay, cool. So, it's right in lock step with my take on it. Um, I think that keeping the it'll be interesting to answer definitively once and for all, even though I know it's a radioactive topic, but uh, if it is true that, and I believe it's um, Ashkanazi Jews specifically have a >> I was hoping you wouldn't say that cuz I'm a Misrai Jew, so I want to take all the credit. >> Tough break, man. Uh but if that's really true and it is from an IQ perspective higher uh obviously not not being any kind of Jew, I'm really left uh in the dust here. I'm not Asian. I'm Jewish. I know it's a tough break, >> but that certainly would lend credence to that. And then also one thing I've always put in the mix is from a cultural perspective, you gave us a couple touchstones that I think are very effective. the shame of the parents, making sure you're getting educated. But the the big one for me is that you have an insular culture where first of all, somebody tries to convert, you're like, "Ah, >> no, don't watch." >> Yeah. Yeah. Like you guys go do your thing, like we'll we'll stay here and you try to dissuade dissuade. >> And then on top of that, helping each other out, which of course if you're an exiled people, you're in a diaspora makes a lot of sense. But you start creating problems for yourself because listen, if you really are just above average intelligence, one of the first things you're going to realize is, let me tell you, there's money in two place or there's power in two places, money and politics. So now you've got there's a great book by Neil Ferguson where he um covers the Rothschilds and it the book is phenomenal and I keep trying to get people to read it so that they can stop thinking about things they don't like that Jews do as like some mystical evil thing. It's like the Rothschilds were just like there is an incredible amount of power in money but you need to have partnerships with politicians because they create the policies. Policies can impact money etc etc. So, make sure that you're basically hobnobbing with them, that you've got all these connections. And it's like, yeah, that's a brilliant strategy. And people do it today all over the place. Like, this is not unique to anyone culture, but insular culture, uh, they find their way to finance very quickly. You're a part of a diaspora. You're a minority. So, now you're not only going into an area becoming hyper successful, you're becoming hyper successful in money and power. And so now when culture is fine and there's money all over the place and everybody's feeling good, nobody's got beef. The second the culture turns economically and we've got a problem, it's like, who's [ __ ] with my money? Exactly. >> And then boom, they zoom in right away. So to me, it's like, okay, I now have a first principles understanding of how we end up here, why it keeps repeating, and why it's always repeating at a time where there's economic strain. Now whether or not there are things that that community could be doing to alleviate some of that is like another question that we can set aside. But the what I'm trying to do is make this a thing that people are not so weird to talk about. Now the question becomes >> if people are going to have an honest conversation about this, one of the things that they have to look at. So right now I think we have this sort of weird head-to-head thing with Islam and Judaism. And so these two things are colliding. So you've got Israel's managed to make a state for itself, but if you really go back and look, it's like America made a state in a pretty dodgy fashion. Roll up on the shores, take things over, spread a little disease, conquer, right? So lot of questions there, but it created something great. Uh same with Israel. And so they go into a territory. Historical connection or not to me is irrelevant. Americans didn't have any historical connection and I don't plan to give it up to anybody. So, but they go in, they run a brilliant strategy from where I'm sitting, and they say, "Okay, we need somewhere. We're going to bring a bunch of people in until we're politically powerful, and then ultimately we're going to have so much political power that we can form a country and make it our own." They pull it off. It's not easy to do. But then I look at Islam and I'm like, they're running the same strategy. >> And so now it's like, okay, well, how do people point fingers at them and be like, hey, you can't do it. I know we did it. Yeah. >> But you can't do it. And so that becomes this point of collision. And so one of the things like going through the feedback that people had on your tweet about Tucker and a sentiment that I see a lot is that idea of like well hold on a second like how can you be against that and for what Israel did? So how do you make that make sense? >> So let's throw some quick facts and numbers. The Organization of Islamic Cooperation, the OIC, is a body of 56 Islamic countries. 56. Israel is the size of New Jersey. Okay. Let's let's suppose we use the Appalachian which is an unfair one of colonizer. If Israel is a colonizer, Islam is a super super elite extraordinary or giastic colonizer like none has ever existed since the history of the world. So if we're going to use falsely in my view the the levy the attack of colonizer on Israel then we don't want to start with Islam because Islam >> literally has the sword of Islam on it as part of its flag. That sword represents we put the sword to your neck and we give you three choices. You either convert as has been the case in 56 countries that were once full of zero Islam or we chop chop off your head but mercifully because Islam is a merciful uh rel by the way they literally argue that it's a very swift thing. You feel no pain that demonstrates that we are kind or you live under what's called the demi status. Demi is the Arabic word for uh it people say secondassis isn't it's not even second class it's it's right up there with the lowest of animals you know your place Jew know your place Christian because you are people of the book we will tolerate you until we reserve the right to no longer tolerate you when we no longer want to tolerate you put on good running shoes and run. So there is this thing called oh what is it called? Oh history. So there is this thing called history where we can open these mysterious things called books that allow us to know what the reality is. To your earlier point about Jews being exclusionary, Judaism in its DNA is a nonprocilitizing religion. That's why Jews suck at marketing new customers into their religion because they do exactly >> from a birthright perspective. You guys are for real in trouble. By the way, >> we're we're useless. We suck. But the idea is that for better or worse, the doctrine within the tenants of the religion are even if Tom says I you you said it exactly right. I want to become Jewish. No, no, no, you don't. >> Okay, I'm willing to do anything. No, you don't. And we keep putting barriers to test your uh you know desire to become Jewish your so that you uh so that you you are truly demonstrating the costly signal of wanting to belong and therefore once you become Jewish you really are you're not a convert you're Jewish in your soul >> well if you have another religion that says the number one canonical tenant of my religion is to unify every millimeter of earth under the unifying flag of Allah. Do you need God to tell you which of these? There's there's no contradiction. Israel just wants to have a small sliver surrounded by 400 million all of whom wish to see it eradicated. And they're saying we don't want any we we don't even want to grow. As a matter of fact, when Israel gave up the Sinai desert to Egypt in order for Egypt with Anoir Sadat to sign the peace treaty, they g if they were expansionists, they would have never given up a size of land that's many times bigger than their existing size. But they're saying just f off. We live here, you live here. We both have a right to exist. Islam doesn't want that. And we're seeing it now in the United States. Go to Texas. Are you familiar at all what's happening in Texas? Okay. So, >> the people who make those accusations or how come God can do this but not either they are dup duplicitus, they're willfully duplicitous or they're ignorant or they're a bit of both. But there is no comparison between these two ideological systems in terms of uh serving as a threat to our personal liberties and freedoms. None. We'll be right back to the show, but first let's talk about the biggest lie in content strategy. Everyone tells you to repurpose your content. Turn podcast into clips. Turn your video into shorts. Turn your blog into reals. It actually is good advice, but nobody mentions that repurposing all of this content still takes hours. You're editing, resizing, reformatting, adding captions. That's why our team has been using Agent Opus by OpusClip. Agent Opus takes your audio or script and turns it into a full animated promo video that's actually ready for you to post. You upload your brand assets, your logo, your product images, your characters, pick a visual style, and it produces a 60 to 90 second video where the message, visuals, and pacing are coherent from start to finish. This isn't a 9-second AI demo clip. 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Start eating what's actually clean. Right now, you can get 30 beef sticks for just $36. That's real nutrition for barely over a dollar per stick. Click the link below to get your 30 beef sticks for just $36. All right, now let's get back to the show. >> I think it might be more complicated than you're giving it credit for. So the when I look at this problem I think about so we're all nested inside of call it a woke movement but I want to back off from the sort of judgmental nature of that and say okay we're nested inside of this movement where a very good thing empathy has run unchecked because we've had so much prosperity for so long we've just never encountered the price that we have to pay for people that are paristatizing uh a government. And so it's just run wild and wild and wild and wild and I'm sure we'll get into that in a minute. But you take that and because we're inside of that, you get people that look at it and go, "Well, hold on a second. We made America in a way that's quite questionable. I feel bad about that. And I don't feel like if I were showing up today that I would have a right to take this land from the Native Americans." And so, oo, I feel kind of guilty. And so as we're getting Muslim immigrants or immigrants from anywhere, there's this sense of I don't know what the ethical framework is that I stand on where I can look myself in the mirror and say it's okay that I did it. I'm well aware it's not them, it's not me, but that's how it feels as they try to build the ethical framework. And I think a lot of people are asking the question, and I think I know how you're going to answer it, but I think it's worth asking. They look at Orthodox Jewish people in Israel who were like, "We want to take all of this." Mike Huckabe literally just said that if the Jews took the entire Middle East, it would be fine. So, it's not like there aren't people. I'm not saying the average Jewish person feels that. I don't think the average Jewish person is even thinking about it. I'm not even saying the average Jewish person in Israel feels that way. But nonetheless, there are like hardcore orthodox people, extremists within Israel, within the Jewish faith that do want it. You've got Christians that think that, yeah, that's that's what God wants. And so that person is having a hard time delineating between a radical Jew, like religious Jew, and a radical Muslim. And they're like, "Bro, it's like all the same to me." >> Okay. Uh, badminton is a sport. Boxing is a sport. Both of these sports start with the letter B. One of them is much more likely than the other to cause brain damage. Despite the fact that they're both sports, therefore, they start with the same letter S. Felines includes my cat ph. And it also includes the 600 lb male lion in Namibia. They're both felines. I'm less likely to cuddle with the Namibian wild feline than my feline. That's called a categorization error. Right? >> How you categorize objects and your ability to do so in an evolutionarily relevant manner is a fundamental property of being able to navigate the world. There are 15 million Jews. There are 2 billion Muslims. It's about 125 to one. Assuming that the radical nature of the two groups is indistinguishable, it's not remotely close to being indistinguishable. One is about, oh, say 13 trillion times more dangerous than the other. But if they were equally, so the radical Jew is just as much prone to maniacal violence as the radical Muslim, you'd still have a scale problem. 125 to one. Numbers matter, right? So I could be 10 pounds overweight. Oprah Winfrey can be 500 lb overweight, although now she's apparently lost a lot of weight. The fact that we're both called overweight doesn't mean that epidemiologically there isn't a distinction. Scale matters. I'm only Okay. So, history does not suggest that radical Talmudists have been causing huge mayhem around the world. But we do have the evidence for Islam. Does that mean that most Muslims are bad and mean? Absolutely not. Most Muslims are perfectly nice and sweet and I know more of those folks than most people will ever meet because I come from the region. And but this is part of the problem is that people go, "Well, hold on a second. I can point to um two things. I can point to truly lovely Muslims that I know pose me no harm that I won't believe for a second that this is Takiraia. Tea >> Sharia." >> No, no, no. What's the You can lie tea. uh they're not going to buy that. They've just known the person too long. So they can find hordes and hordes and hordes of people that are just lovely, beautiful, incredible humans, which you have said yourself, you know, just absolute scores of them. >> So there's that easy to point to. Then there's also like Israel does some gangster [ __ ] in the world. Mhm. >> It's kind of impressive like when you really look at it. And I know that's going to be controversial, but like when the pager thing happened and they blew the nuts off a bunch of people and it was like a 10-year plan to go and develop a pager company. They have to run the pager company. Like it has to be a real pager company. That's so wild to me that they were able to put bombs in those. Incredible. But you can point to that be like, "Yo, everywhere I turn though, it feels like there's a MSAD agent doing something incredible. Now you've got your Jeffrey Epstein problem. People are convinced whether it's true or not. They're convinced that Homeboy leading the most interconnected web of sociopaths the world has ever known. People screaming misad agent. So it's like ah what people can point to both of those things. >> They can't though. That's what I mean by scale. >> No, no, they can. You're just saying the scale is >> Yep. Exact. That's what I meant. So yes, the Mossad blew the as you beautifully said the nuts of a lot of Hezbollah guys. That's different than flying planes into buildings. Those are both resulted in deaths. But not only were they different in scale, they're different in whom we're targeting. I may or may not have mentioned this in a previous show. Even if I did, it's worth repeating. There are many many databases all of which are some are academic some are journalistic all fully fully you know verifiable and authentic that track the number of Islamic terror attacks >> in the world and you could you could choose which period you want so the one that I usually like to quote is one that tracks it from 911 that's the kind of the before and after as of 911 till today this database and that's an underestimate of the real number. So it's a conservative number. >> 48,000 terror attacks by Islamic terrorists in nearly 70 countries. You can't say that the Mossad is attacking random people in 70 countries. They're attacking usually their enemies in a few countries. So if you took if we assume we can debate how many religions there are, one number puts it at about 10,000. and by here by religion uh 7th day Adventist would be different than Protestant even though they're both Christian. So if you take 10,000 religions and you drew a bar chart of Islamic terror and the 9,999 other religions including Judaism, you'd come up with one bar that's 48,000 and the other aggregate are on one hand or maybe two hands. Right? So scale matters. Now let's talk about but but my friend Ahmed is a lovely guy. Okay. Iran is made up of 90 million Iranians. Most of them hate the regime. Mo many of them don't even wish to consider themselves Islamic. They say that we are Persian, right? They Islam came and colonized us. Did the fact of all those lovely, beautiful, peaceful Iranian Muslims play any part in the fact that for the past 47 years they've been living in a prison? No. Right. So the fact that there are an endless number of beautifully peaceful Muslims is utterly immaterial to the trajectory of history. So for example, on 911 there were these two buildings called Twin Towers, right? It didn't take 190 million committed terrorists to bring down those two buildings. It wasn't 190 million. It wasn't 19 million. It wasn't 190,000 dot dot dot. It was 19 of them. So 19 is a minuscule number compared to all of the other Muslims that didn't do anything. But they're immaterial to the story. Let me draw another analogy. When I when my daughter who's sitting here off camera is going to go down a dark alley, I use this analogy. I use one of many analogies on my recent episode with Piers Morgan. None of which apparently hit. >> That was a funny exchange. >> Yeah. Because he just said, "But but but Ahmed, he makes really good curry." Come on, man. Ahmed. Okay. So when I when I tell my daughter, don't go down a dark alley that has young men loitering, the statistical re uh reality is that most men would not rape her. >> So it is incontestable. The statistics is a lot more than but my friend Ahmed is a nice guy, right? Most men would not rape her. But we the way our brain operates is it looks for statistical regularities and then uses an adaptive calculus to navigate through the world. So even though most men would never rape her, you and I as fathers would say absolutely do not go down that thing despite the one more example and then I'll seed the floor to you. I know tens tons of parents that have raised their children. None of them, as far as I know, including incredibly woke ones that say that all sex differences are socially constructed. I don't know anyone who said, "I'm looking for a babysitter for my children that's a 35year-old male with a functioning penis." It has to be that because I'm a good person and I don't let statistical regularities or what's that thing called? reality shape what I do with my children's integrity of their bodies. So, I won't let this sexist logic of 14year-old girls as babysitters are less likely to molest my children. This is why I look for guys that are 35 to spend time with my children. I don't I've never met any parent who does that yet. >> So, notwithstanding the fact that most men are not child molesters. So that's how the brain operates. Most of Muslims are lovely. Islam not as much. >> Yeah. Okay. So the reason >> at all convincing or >> uh it it is but there's a this is all nested inside of an architecture that exists inside the human mind that I don't think anybody is talking about and I cannot understand how I can't get people to focus on this. The scale problem. So Muslims make up a gigantic number. Let's round it to two billion. But the very first thing that you said about Jews is that no minority ever in the history of time punches above their weight more effectively than they do. So if I'm an American and I'm slowly but surely I'm watching Trump act in ways that I can't predict, I cannot figure out why he's doing what he's doing. And then I go Miriam Adlesen. Hm. There's something here. I think he's basically bought and paid for. Why are these guys like Israel first? They're not acting like they're America first. This is like crazy. They start building a mental model that is influenced by effect rather than raw numbers. So they have there's there's almost no need to appeal to the fact that there are more Muslims by a country mile than there are Jews if it's actually true that their life is being more impacted by Jewish people. So if Jewish people and to me it's like it's it people cannot like separate that a person can be Jewish and totally uninvolved in all of this. They just have nothing to do with it. They're like why why do I keep getting thrown into this? So I want to be very clear in my head that is a very easy thing. You've got I'll call politically active uh Jewish person who is literally trying to bend the world towards what they want. And let me be abundantly clear. I am of the belief that everybody should be trying to bend the world towards what they want. And so to me, it just seems like people are mad that you've got a group that's unbelievably good at it. And this is why I'm trying to get people to I I'm all for people saying I absolutely despise the way that Israel is so capable of getting other people to um go after their agenda. But the reality is everybody's going after their agenda, right? So, um, being mad that they're good at it, I would rather people just talk about here's what I think they're doing. Here's why I don't want them to be doing it instead of like spiraling out into all the weird stuff. Anyway, because of that, like if I could just get people to to start talking about this thing in a very like put all the pieces on the board, don't try to go to bat for a team. The reality is America right now is acting like a bully. So, I'm not going to be surprised when Europe, for instance, like you guys can [ __ ] right off. when Canada was like, "We're about to elect uh a conservative um president." Nope. Or prime minister, not not going to do it now because Trump is being an [ __ ] and so we're gonna go I get it. I get why people are responding like that. So getting people to see that there is going to be a consequence to being so good at leveraging the diaspora and the fact that whatever percentage of the Jewish population it is that it has managed to make themselves extraordinarily wealthy which is awesome. I've done it. It's very hard to do. And so I clap like it's it's a very difficult thing. But they then leverage that money wisely politically to get people to move in the direction that they want to bend them towards the things that the agendas that they want to get and all that stuff. But they've got to wake up to like there there is always going to be a reality to be faced that you're moving pieces on a chessboard. People don't always know what you're trying to do, but they can see that you're moving things. It makes them deeply uncomfortable. And because they're so good at it, it just spirals into all this conspiracy madness. And then the fact that and um uh Andrew Busamante assures me that the French are way more hardcore than the MSAD. I just cannot wrap my head around that. So I think of the MSAD as being like the world's most impressive secret agent group. So you put that together and now it's like you got you have to contend with that. And so you have to be able to talk about it openly. There's an incredible book called uh rise and kill first. Incredible book about the Jewish strategy of what do you do when someone's coming to kill you? You rise and kill them first. Yes. Like I would teach my daughter that like this is like the best advice in the world. But Israel's gotten so good at it that it's like it makes people uncomfortable. >> So can I >> please please please? >> So of course you're familiar with Thomas Soul, right? >> Yes. intimately I love him maybe more than you and I know how much you love him really okay that's those are big words uh so Thomas Soul you're exactly right is a is the OG is anybody who's listening right now drop everything you're doing go to every single one of his books read everything he's ever done everything he's ever said he's the OG of fighting the wokesters okay and he's still alive and I've been petitioning both behind the scenes and publicly for him to long overdue receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom. I don't know how he hasn't gotten it. He should. Anyways, at one point, you can probably pull it up right here. Somebody was asking uh, Professor Soul, >> what must happen so that the Jews are no longer hated? >> His answer was awesome. >> Thank you. Before you say it, one of the greatest answers of all time consisting of one word. It starts with the letter F. >> Yes, it does. >> Fail. to your point, right? >> It was so he was so fail. >> Yeah, exactly. It's really was the the original mic drop, right? That's the problem is that look in the let's let's take it away from an in ancillary topic. The World Cup, which is coming to the United States shortly, has 200 countries that compete in the World Cup. Do you know how many countries, and I'm not counting women's soccer because it's not really a sport. I'm just kidding. I'm just joking. Okay, >> we finally said something offensive. That's good because before this everything was safe. >> Everything was safe. Jew Islam. But don't don't By the way, we could talk about something else. I thought when you said I I triggered a controversy yesterday. I I wasn't even thinking about the Tucker. I was thinking about the other one which >> Oh, we've got more. >> We've got a lot more. A lot more. Finally. Uh but >> how do you know how many countries have won the World Cup? >> Like just off the top of your head, give me a number. Yeah, that's very good. Actually, I I would have thought that you would overestimate by a lot more. Eight countries. >> Wow. Yeah. >> Eight countries have ever won. What is it about the DNA if not literal metaphorically that can cause only eight countries in a sport that is played intergalactically that everybody wants to win only eight countries have won it? Whatever the reason is, it's not unlike what happens with Jews, right? There is for genetic reasons, cultural reason, a mix of both, Argentina produces the greatest soccer players ever. It's Maradana, it's Messi, they're both left footed, they move exactly the same way. I don't know what it is. Is it jeans? Is it that they do the Is it both? Okay. >> Same thing happens with Jews in a lot of the domains that we're talking about. So if I were a non-Jew sitting on the sideline and looking at those demonic Jews, the smart thing to do would be to say, "What can I do to emulate and even beat them at what they do?" >> Yeah. >> Right. I want to take God's story where his mother said, "You're going to bring shame and I'm going to adopt this and inculcate my children with that level of educational excellence expectations." Right? So rather than de demonize that recipe of success, why don't you say they probably have cracked the code about some of these things and let's emulate it. >> But that seems like it takes a lot of effort. Better to simply point them as being in Arabic you say shaitan, the Satan. They're Satan people. And that's what explains why I've never become an actor because Hollywood is controlled by the Jews. >> Yeah. No, I get it. Uh I agree. I think that's the only smart thing to do when you look at somebody that's doing something um where they had an agenda and they were able to execute against it is to say I have agendas. I'd like to be able to execute against them. What's the secret there? And I will give that round of applause to the Muslim faith. They've done a phenomenal job of running a strategy. I don't they probably won't love uh it being called a strategy, but the to procilitize to punish if you try to leave the religion. It's a very good combination. Um, promising the virgins is also not a terrible idea. >> May forgive me for interrupting you. Uh, allowing Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women, but Muslim women cannot marry uh, non-M Muslim men or Okay. So, if you look at the mimemetic content of the Islamic religion and maybe the Muslim viewers will appreciate this, it is the most brilliant mimoplex. So if Jews suck at marketing new adherence, >> Islam is the exact opposite. It's the greatest marketing strategy that the world has ever known precisely for the points that you've said and a few others. And so yeah, they're they're smart about it. And so now my thing is, okay, given all of that, how and one of the all of thats that I really want people to hold in their minds is the way that America becomes a country, the way that Australia becomes a country, the way that uh Israel became a country. Like the these are all things that are going to make people in a modern context, in a post World War II, everything has been good for a very long time. Standard of living is insane. So, we have this sense that it's our birthright to just have things. And so, now we start feeling guilty, quite frankly, because we have the time and the luxury to feel guilty about it. And we're now being confronted with a um religion that is extraordinarily good at going into a space, starting small, planting roots, and running a um you know, keep your head down, be chill in the beginning. You start to feel yourself. Maybe you take over time square, you do some prayers, get the call to prayer going, right? And you just slowly slowly um you out produce quite frankly, you just have more kids and you reinforce your religion. How does what is the ethical framework? That's the real question. What is it ethical to push back? If so, what is the ethical framework that people use to push back? So 100% it's ethical if you believe that human beings are endowed with a survival instinct, right? And not I'm not trying to plug my next book, but the whole point of the whole point of suicidal empathy that it's coming out in May >> is that empathy is a perfectly noble and evolutionarily selected virtue. But like most things, as Aristotle explained to us, too little of something is not good. Too much of something is not good. And life is about finding that sweet spot. And it applies to an endless number of phenomena. It's probably the singular universal law of maximal flourishing that is most common across so many different domains. Okay. It's the inverted you. Too little not good. Too much not good. Okay. So empathy is fine as long as it gets activated within the right norms of reaction to the right targets at the right time. Right? So being infinitely empathetic to endless migrants under the guise of uh phaido is a feline and the Namibian wild lion is a feline therefore they're both feline therefore they're both equal is exactly what happens when people say you're such a hypocrite Godad you and your buddy Elon Musk are immigrants and yet you rail against immigrants as if all immigrants are equally likely number one to assim assimilate and not cause havoc in your society. The fact that we're both called, right? So, Muhammad the jihadist who just came from al-Qaeda camp is an immigrant and Elon Musk is an immigrant. Are they going to bring a net benefit that's the same? They're equal under the law perhaps, but they're not equal in their proclivity to do good or bad. >> I agree, but let's take it out of the abstract and start because this is we're really going to have to contend with this. And so everything ultimately has to be made into a policy. And it seems to me that the policy to say Muslims are a problem would be a mistake. That that's the wrong level of analysis. And it really comes down to different Muslims from different countries are going to matter. There are factions within Muslims or Islam for sure that fight against each other. And so part of what I think the West's problem is is we have this blunt force trauma thing of Muslim bad that then allows people to go, you guys are just being racist. When what I the drum I've been beating to death is this isn't about race and you're going to be routinely confused when two people of wildly disperate races see that the other person shares their religion and all of a sudden they're besties and then two people who look exactly alike want to kill each other because one's Catholic and one's Protestant. >> Exactly. It is a values question. >> And when you find people that have your values, you can connect so fast. And when you find people that don't share your values, then you're going to jar whether you look exactly alike or not. >> So, how do we, if I'm right, that saying Muslim or even Islam is too blunt force? It's like trying to figure out what things are while wearing mittens. How do we get to the part that actually matters so that we can we can create a policy that looks to things like assimilation, shared values, which I know is where you're going in terms of you go to Canada, you proitize for Canadian values, free speech, freedom, economic freedom, all of that things that one would want to see more of in Canada or America. Um, so but how do we figure that out when somebody is like, "Yeah, you're Muslim. Great. Doesn't matter. You share my values. >> So, uh, you may, it may be jarring what I'm going to say, but let's go for it. Number one, to your point about it's not a race. As a matter of fact, let me build on what you said. The Umah is the Muslim nation. So, the brilliance of Islam, it says there are no national borders. There is the nation of Islam, the ummah. So, I could be Indonesian Muslim. I could be white pearly Albanian Muslim. I could be black Muslim from Sagal. I just said Indonesian, different race. I said Albanian, white, different race. And I said Seneagalles, black, from West Africa, completely different race. We are all of the same. We're part of the UMA. So, I'm building on your argument. You're exactly right. It's not racist to attack Islam by definition. Okay. Islam transcends races in its canonical structure. Okay, number one. Number two, when you come to my house, I have the luxury to say, even though you have freedom of speech and freedom of whatever, when you come into my house, I'm sorry. Maybe it's that I have germ contamination, you have to take off your shoes. Now, you might say, "That kind of sucks. I I don't want to walk around in my socks." But if you're going to be a good guest and understanding that I may have my quirks as a host, please take off your thing. If you decide to come in and start putting mud everywhere, I'm probably never going to invite you again. So even though you're a free individual within the confines of my home, I will put a restriction. You're not free to wear your shoes. >> I I I hope this is a good analogy. Now, >> so I take that as country needs to know what they stand for. They need to be able to articulate their values or customs. >> Okay? And therefore the argument but but God freedom of religion that can't be the impetent pill that you take to give away your children, your wives, your culture, your religion, your heritage, your civilization. If your religion is inherently hostile to my existence, and as you correctly said, maybe you you heard that from me saying it, maybe you you found it. Islam has used the same playbook for 1400 years. When in the minority, act meek and play victim. Muhammad said it. When in the majority, smite at the neck and show no mercy. Am I making this up? Look it up. Okay. So therefore, there is no world in which we have 1400 years of history. Let me before I answer this. >> When we run studies in science, we often times have two conditions. We put 30 people in this condition, 30 people in that condition. And the reason why 30 is because it's when the t distribution mimics a normal distribution just for statistical reasons. So roughly 30 and 30 is what you aim for for you to have statistical representative. Okay? And a million studies are published in the most prestigious scientific journals with that small sample size. Well, I contend that the data I don't contend. It's an a fact that the data on,400 years of Islam has more statistical power in it than every single scientific study that's ever been published. So, if we're looking for statistical power of a test, we've got this data. That data says that there is no place where Islam goes, becomes majority, and personal liberties flourish. Notwithstanding that your friend Ahmed makes great curry and he's very sweet guy. Both of those statements are true. Most Muslims are lovely. Islam not so much. So how much more data would one need before they say look it's still okay because they're only 1% in the US. But in Dearbornne they're not 1%. Do we have problems there? Yes. But in Minneapolis they're not 1%. Do we have problems there? Yes. Do we have 1,400 years of data in endless different societies where that exact answer question is answered the same way? Yes. Right. So, let me bring it back personally. My family escaped Lebanon. It wasn't MAGA extremists that forced us to leave. My wife's family left. They're Lebanese Armenian. It wasn't MAGA extremist that forced them to leave. My some of my grandparents left Syria. It was the same group of folks that forced my grandparents to leave Syria. My brother-in-law's family was forced to leave Alexandria, Georgia, uh, Alexandria, Egypt in the mid 1950s. It was the same group of people. My wife's ancestors from Armenia escaped the Armenian genocide. It was the same people. So, I just gave you Turkey. I just gave you Egypt. I just gave you Syria. I just gave you Lebanon. My wife is Armenian. I'm Jewish. There seems to be converging evidence here, but I could spend the next 37 hours sharing that with you. But guess what? Your friend Ahmed is still doing good curry and is still a sweet guy. So, it's about the epidemiology of Islam. If Islam goes to a place, will that fortify the United States or weaken it? Well, we now have current data in France, in Denmark, in Sweden, in Spain, in Italy, in Britain, in Germany. There's in in well, I can mention more in in Canada, in Australia. What's happened? Do we have metrics that tell us, hey, have rapes gone up or down since that influx? So, what would be the evidence that I would have to share with all your viewers for them to go, well, I'm not going to rely on the reflex, but you know, Weinstein and Epstein are Jewish, so you know, Jews, too. Jews can be [ __ ] Jews can be rapists. Jews can be pedophiles. There's no monopoly in the darkness of the heart of of humans. There are bad people in every group. We're not talking about people. We're talking about an ideology. If your reflex is, I don't want communism to replace capitalism in the United States. That exact same reflex should tell you, do I want Islam to take a stronger foothold? If the answer is yes, then please petition to have more Muslims come. If not, maybe you need to listen to guys like me. Sorry I took so much time answering. >> No, not at all. It's this is the ultimately the conversation that we're going to have to have. Uh Europe is maybe 10 years ahead of us in contending with this. Um okay, let's start building the base assumptions that you have. If I get any of these wrong, stop me. But base assumption number one that shapes your worldview and what you would end up doing if the policies were yours to make. uh the religion of Islam itself is you've never used the word um colonizing or conquest but like it's expansionary maybe is the most neutral way to say it. So uh the religion itself is expansionary so highly procilitizing. They've got all kinds of things set up to make sure that it grows. Um, it's a different val I've heard you say this before, though I don't think you've said it today, but it is a value system that is different than the value system that we have here. So, I'm trying to use neutral language. So, you're importing people that are good at converting. Um, they're very good at maintaining high birth rates, which is something in the west that we have become absolutely terrible at. uh and you put those together with the fact that they are it it is a very different value system and now you have something where you're inviting something in and if Tom is right and values are the thing that matter and when you have disperate values you're going to see that country tear itself apart um we are running uh not even an experiment that we have put something in motion where and I think that um Belgium might be one of the first to go Brussels is just the the percentage of um Muslims in the country I believe now are the majority it could be crazy some >> in certain areas not not in across but but in many of these places Muhammad is the number one >> that that's very misleading because let's say that Americans uh their top names there's 15,000 different names that people go for and so it's just going to naturally dilute whereas if there's eight uh like in the World Cup and Muslims name their kids Muhammad and that's basically it then as a percentage of a single name it's going to be very high. So >> so notwithstanding that statistical reality that you just said if >> Austria has Muhammad as the number one name with all due respect to your little adjustment it is raising a bigger red flag. Right. So what you said is correct. You're right that there are a lot more variety in names in in accidental names than there is in in Islam where everybody will call them Muhammad. But the fact that in you know Brussels and and and Vienna and London that reality is happening is that suggesting that there is a very noticeable demographic change happening. So let's say we maintain it at that pace. How much more before Pierce wakes up and says, "Oops, I guess." By the way, at the end of this that show, I asked him, I turned it on him using a classic kind of Socratic method. What? Right. You love Curry. It's great. What would it take for Pierce Morgan to write an email to Gat Sad and say, "Oops, I guess you were right." He goes, "If I were to see that things have really gone bad." No, no, but you didn't. What would that be? Right. Well, the reality is until it bites you in the eye. Look, there is no such thing as diabetes because I don't have diabetes. None of my children have diabetes. Neither my wife has diabetes. As a matter of fact, I was diagnosed with diabetes, but nobody's amputated my leg yet. So, it's probably not a serious thing. So people who do this is because they're so buried in their ostrich parasitic thing that they don't have the imagination or courage to extrapolate to what the future trajectory is. Right. Look, the the the Muslim Brotherhood, although it wasn't just them, but they're the most famous one, said, "We're going to conquer the West in three ways. We're going to conquer the West, to your point, through the womb of our women. We're going to conquer the West through Hijra." Hijra is the Arabic word for immigration. and then we're going to conquer the West by using your miserable freedoms against you. It's not me who did a Mossad thing to uncover this. They're announcing it from top of the mountain. Please hear us. That's what we're going to do to you. And what do Westerners do? Oh, come on. That's just a bunch of guys saying nonsense. My friend Ahmed next door is a very sweet guy and I play cricket with him. He's the real representation of Islam. So if people like me and Ayan Hersy Ali who grew up in that world who who who who had to wear really good running shoes to escape that world are screaming all day at you and I don't mean you literally you western people >> and nothing then you deserve all that will befall you. Now the reality is you and I might avoid the calamity that's coming to because God willing we'll live forever but we are on a clock. But what about our children? What about their children? What My wife asked me long ago, what you live a very hectic life. Why do you have to take on the world? I say because we have children, right? Angela Merkel can can live out, to use Rob Henderson Henderson's term, she could live out her luxury beliefs because not only do they not affect her, she doesn't have children that she has to worry about her policies. So, I could do some moral preining in the mirror and go, "Look how good a person I am. I don't believe in discriminating against any immigrants. I'm a really good person." You see how I'm stroking my hair with my moral preining? Listen to us. We've lived it. Yeah. It's uh I think to get out of the yelling at people, not seeing a result, it ultimately comes down to uh natural selection. God, I'm very sad to report because people, the cultures that live on are the cultures that believe in themselves, that have the strength to stand up for what they believe in. >> Japan, >> uh, yeah, Japan's a great example. Like, they're not for play. Uh, and seeing them respond to immigration has been hysterical. I tried to do business there for a while and you get treated differently as, uh, not being Japanese. And I was like, all right, I respect it. Like, I get it. Like, I'm coming to your country. This is your place. you guys stand 10 toes down. Um, but if a culture doesn't believe in itself, if it's not prepared to identify, state what its values are and say, "This is what we stand for and everybody else can [ __ ] off." Because my thing is I'm perfectly happy to have anybody come to America that is hardworking, not looking to be on public assistance, contributes to American values, which I can very easily name. Uh, yeah, I'm all for it. I want to attract the smartest, hardworking, most freedomloving people that the world has ever seen. That's the very thing that made us us. Um, but I think people in America are getting confused as to what built America. And they will often talk about the Statue of Liberty. But what they don't realize is the Statue of Liberty says, "Give me your uh poor, tired, huddled masses yearning to breathe free." So these were people under dictatorships who were like, "Listen, don't give me anything other than a shot. like I want to come here. And the winters killed the vast majority of people in the early days that rolled up on the shores were just like, yo, this place is just gonna [ __ ] kill you. And so the people that were able to make it were the most entrepreneurial, the most hardcore. And so, um, America's past is covered in blood. It's covered in the conquest of a land. And if you can't look at that and say, "Cool, this is how we got here, and now we're either going to fight for it or we're not." Um, but it makes me very sad to see this become a question of race in most people's minds and not like a forget the race thing. Define your values. What do you stand for? What are you willing to ride or die for? >> And then welcome people in that hit that note and reject as aggressively as you can people that don't. >> I would say this. So, because you asked me sort of what would be a specific policy. So, let me let me answer that. You probably know this as a fan of evolutionary psychology. Reciprocity is a fundamental Darwinian drive. >> Yeah. >> So, and if I may step back and kind of give a bit of a evolutionary psychology uh primer. So, in in some of my early books, I talk about four key Darwinian modules. Module one, survival. So, anything that relates to your survival instinct. So for example, we've evolved gustatory preferences that cater to the caloric uncertainty and caloric uh scarcity that we faced in our ancestral past. So both you and I prefer some instantiation of fat more than raw celery. You might prefer moose ch moose. I may prefer uh ribeye steak, but we both prefer fat to celery. Okay. So that >> to my dismay but >> right. So that would be survival module. Reproductive module is every all adaptations related to mating. Okay. But then there are two other modules that I argue are really key. There is kin selection which explains altruistic acts towards kin. Why would I jump in front of a bus to save three of my children? Well, from an evolutionary perspective, that makes perfect sense because each of my children share on average 50% of their genes with me. So even if I die it the selection the the evolution would have selected for that altruistic behavior. Now comes the fourth one. Why would I ever jump into the river to save Tom who's not biologically related to me or better yet a complete stranger. And there the argument is based on reciprocal altruism. I scratch your back you scratch mine. So there are very clear reasons why social species would evolve that tit fortat strategy. Now, let's apply to what we're talking about here. Why is it that Islam can go to a place and build 3,000 mosques in the last 20 years in the United States? Actually, I think the number is much higher than that now. Okay. >> Are you able to build a church in most of those places? No. Therefore, that's a violation of reciprocity. What's not reciprocal is parasitic. Is par is are parasitic relationships good? Not for the host, >> right? Yes. >> So therefore, >> am I allowed to go openly and brazenly procilitize people in Islamic countries? No. Why do you do it here? Am I allowed to do public prayers in your countries? No. Why do you do it here? That's what suicidal empathy is. >> Now, let's link it to another uh concept that I introduce in suicidal empathy. I call it cultural theory of mind. theory of mind is a is actually part of empathy. There are two there are two features of empathy. There's cognitive empathy and there's emotional empathy. Cognitive empathy is me being able to put myself in your mind to then sort of have a map of the world so that we could have a meaningful conversation. Autistic children fail theory of mind tests. That's how there is no blood test you can give to to know that a child is autistic. You give them a theory of mind task, they fail at it. right now. What? So that's what theory of mind is. I introduced the term cultural theory of mind. This is when at the cultural level you're able to put yourself in the mind's eye of the other culture. >> Now the west lacks cultural theory of mind. Why? Because the west views magnanmity, generosity, kindness, compassion, empathy as laudable virtues to be reciprocated. You know what the other side hears? I I mentioned five, right? Weakness, weakness, weakness, weakness, weakness. This is why in Arabic those folks tell me the West is a woman to be effed. >> Whoa. >> To be mounted. You listening? You're taping this? Okay. Now, the reason why they say this is because the West is a woman. And in their reference, she is mounted. Now, they don't say this to me anymore because they recognize me now. So, they watch their tongue. But 20 years ago when I wasn't as known and we could talk freely in Arabic is and they don't know who I am and what I stand for but I'm just an Arabic guy. That's what they say. So for example in Canada the Medicare card in beautiful romantic free healthcare. By the way Canada has a free health care system if you don't include the hundreds of thousands of dollars that I pay in taxes. So, for example, my car is also free if you don't count the fact that I paid $70,000 for it. My steak was free if you don't count the fact that I paid for it. So, it's a free health care system except that I pay for everybody else. And by the way, I can't take do the free health care system because it's so substandard that I'm forced to take private health care through my employer. But keep being romantic about the beautiful Canadian system. >> You're preaching to the choir on that one. Okay, so let's keep going. The Medicare card in Canada, because we're a very kind and civilized people, did not have your photo ID on it. So when Ahmed Dwish wanted to bring his uncle to have heart surgery, who lived in Bahalbak in the small town in Lebanon, who wasn't Canadian, he could come and just use the card of his right. And when they speak to me, they would say, "You're such [ __ ] morons, these Canadians." Right? What a bunch of idiots. We're [ __ ] them. Right? Then the Canadians woke up and said, "Hey, here's a way we could reduce, say, fraud by billions of dollars. We could put an ID card on the Medicare." But again, you could have the French word is you can be grand in your magnanmity with other people's money. Hence, socialism, hence communism, right? it's parasitic. So that's that's why there's no cultural theory of mind. Westerners view these grand acts of compassion with the idea that you will appreciate that you will come in here and you will reciprocate in a tsunami of gratitude. That's not how it works. So let me give you one more example. Sinir Yaha Sinoir, the architect of October 7th, was in prison for for life, right? And but then he was released. During his time in prison, he was diagnosed with a brain tumor >> that was going to kill him. The Jewish surgeons who are bound by the hypocratic oath whereby even your most avowed enemy should benefit from you saving him said no we will not let this guy whose entire existence revolves around eradicating all Jews in the world as stated publicly they operate on him. So now when you don't have theory of mind, cultural theory of mind, which regrettably you would think this the Israelis would given the difficult neighborhood that they live in, they were suicidally empathetic. They said, "Well, if we excise that tumor and save his life, this will buy us a lot of empathy from him." He said, "Hey morons, thank you very much for the life-saving thing. I'm going to give you this gorgeous gift on October 7th. You ready for it? That's my gift return." And now they write they some of them in government will write to me and say Dr. Sad wow you were right about suicidal empathy. So what I'm saying is when you navigate through the world you either navigate the world as it exists and act accordingly or you build a unicornia model of the world which the west is doing. >> It's interesting you're saying something really profound and for some reason this one isn't catching on. Um but the fact that as a westerner it is very hard to remind for anybody it's very hard to remind yourself that the value system that I have is not reflective of objective truth. It is a set of things that I've been taught that have been carried on through whatever religious tradition, my family, the things baked into the government, the media, all of it. uh but if somebody else has a totally different set of values then they're going to approach the world from a very different way. It's very interesting. I I am so aware of the concept of theory of mind at the individual level but I really do forget that I'm not my value system is not simply mapped to what humans are like. my value system is uniquely like not only American but like West Coast American and um yeah sort of the blue color tinge that my youth had like all that stuff really makes up how I view the world. >> Uh and so projecting to look back at myself through a different culture is very difficult and I don't hear anybody talking about that at the individual level. Yes. at the cultural level living. >> Well, that's very kind of you to say and and here I want to uh mention my editor at Harper Collins. Uh at one point he said, you know, your term suicidal empathy has gone global. Everybody uses it. I want >> I think people forget that that started with you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So, some forget, some give credit, some know that it's me and don't give credit. We've got the whole mixture. >> It's crazy though. >> Yeah. Cheers. >> Thank you. And so he said to me, he goes, "I want all these other unbelievable terms in your book to become as much part of the lexicon as possible." One of which is cultural theory of mind. Interesting. >> Because he said it is so powerful in explaining, you know, everything. >> Uh look, I I'll give another example of how uh lack of cultural theory of mind creates these completely parallel and non-intersecting world views. In the west, if you see someone who could potentially be a victim, you come to their defense. In the Middle East, where might is right. If you see a victim, that's an opportunity. Now, again, I don't mean every single individual, and I don't want to do this preface. It's a mindset, right? Men more important than women. Humans more important than animals. Muslims more important than not. Every dynamic is one of power and strength. And if you are on the uh negative end of that calculus, sorry. Okay, you follow. So uh I remember even in our home and I mean we're not right. When you're children sit down at the children, shut up. You're children. We're adults. It's right. By the way, there there are western psychologists who've come up for with a metric that captures this. It's called power distance index. So, Gear Hofstead, who is arguably the the most known cross-cultural psychologist in the world, Hoffstead is H O F T Hofsteads. And so, he came up with the analog to the big five personality traits. He argued that there is a similar set of traits but at the cultural level. So one of them is power distance index. So and that speaks to what we're talking about. Power distance index refers to whether a society is very much hierarchically organized or not. And so you see this for example in linguistic diff. So let let me give you one example. when we moved from Lebanon to Canada. So in Lebanon, of course, we speak Arabic, but we also speak French because Lebanon used to be a French uh protectorate. So most educated Lebanese used to be bilingual at the very least. Well, because it's the French model from France in in the way you address someone in French, depending on the power dynamic, if they're older, if they're your professor, if they're, you know, whatever, you don't know them. >> You address them in a different way than if they're familiar. >> Ch is the colloquial, right? Vu, which is also used for plural, is used. So if you were my professor and you're older than me, I go, "How are you?" I wouldn't say that's disrespectful. Quebec has a much more egalitarian ethos, even though it's French-speaking. So when a child speaks to a grown-up, they address them as two, which is viewed as very impolite. Now, why am I saying that story? Because when my parents first moved to Montreal, they used to get offended when the little schmuck who's 8 years old speaks to them as if they are your friend. So cultural values matter. Now some cultural values are universal. So for example, the incest taboo is known as a universal taboo because there is no culture where you say, "Yeah, yeah, have sex with your son. That's a great idea." But other Yeah. But other values are completely culture specific. And so to assume that your magnanmity and compassion and empathy is going to re reciprocate it is a perfect uh case of here's another term that my editor would like to see go. I call it civilizational sepuku. >> Sepuku is the disembowelment of the Japanese when they have shame. Well, what we're doing with suicidal empathy is civilizational >> suku. >> All right, walk me through that because that's what exactly I was trying to get at earlier where it's like we have this sense of original sin of how our country came into existence. You couple that with, you know, decades and decades and decades of success and all of a sudden we've got people that are per eager to commit uh civilizational sepu. >> Okay, so let's do it. Uh, if you believe that all differences in outcomes stem from nefarious first causes, Kamala Harris, it's not right. We should all end up in the same place and we certainly didn't start at the same place. I am here the beneficient government to equalize. Right. >> This makes me want to chew through a coffee table. >> Exactly. Exactly. Me too. Okay. So if but if you if you internalize that message, let's now apply it at the collective level. Why is it that we in the west get to have such a beautiful life? Tom is I don't think I'm saying a secret is a very successful, very wealthy guy. There are hundreds of millions if not billions of people that don't make per day what Don what Tom could potentially make in the time that we've sat together today. Right? >> That feels icky. That feels existentially wrong. I don't like that feeling. So, the way that I'm going to self flagagillate existentially is I'm going to write that wrong because I suffer from privilege guilt. I'm privileged. What about the Guatemalan people? Don't you think that they have a right to live this wonderful dream? Well, in a beautiful unicornia, that's true. But as Thomas Soul also explained to us, life has tradeoffs. There are opportunity costs right there. I would love for every homeless person to have a home. That doesn't mean that I let in thousands of homeless people into my home, >> right? >> That doesn't make me callous. I would love every single child on earth to be free of abuse. truly. But I think both of you and I you and I would sign that thing. That doesn't mean that I invest in Rwanda random children as much as I do in my own children. And I have the strength of personhood to say both of these two statements are true. I would love existentially for all children to be free of abuse, but my job is to protect my biological children. For the suicidally empathetic, what I just said is a no-go. Everybody is entitled to the beauty and majesty of the American experience. So, if they are let in here, why are you an [ __ ] By the way, I uh there's a producer, I'll keep it unnamed, but there's a producer of a very very high-profile show in in LA that wanted me to come on for Suicidal Empathy. And as she was grilling me during our phone chat, and I didn't take too well to that kind of grilling approach. I'm not auditioning for your show. Uh, she said, "But okay, I know about your Islam stuff, but what about if the Hispanic guys are coming here who are collecting our tomatoes?" Which, by the way, that itself could be a form of racism because why are you expecting that all the Hispanic are only why are they not neurosurgeons? Why are you assuming they're only tomato pickers? But anyways, you don't think that they have a right to come here? So I flipped it on her. I said, "Wait a second. Every in the United States, all the administration knows God. I work at a center called the Declaration of Independence Center for the Study of AC of American Freedom at Old Miss. >> So I am about as rahrh American as you can be. Yet if I want to go work at Old Miss, I need a visa. So, are you saying that Hector the tomato picker transcends that rule? It applies. So, are do you are you saying there's a two-tier system whereby Gad Sad must abide by the law, but not Hector? She I didn't hear her respond much on the phone. I I don't think I'm going to be offered to go on that show. I mean, I think the host would want me to come, but I think the gatekeeper doesn't want me to come. So the reality is in a beautiful world where we all sing John Lennon's imagine song, we can all hold hands and nobody is unhoused in the real world that happens. >> Yeah. Yeah. So here's the phrase I'm trying to get to catch on. Okay. Some people need to be chased by a lion. >> When when you have to fight for your survival, when things are hard, when they're difficult, when you realize the reality that if I don't get that loaf of bread or whatever, my kid goes hungry. All of a sudden, people get pretty sharp about like, "Hold on a second. I need to draw some borders. Yes to you, no to that person." There there's an idea that um I I think would really help people, which is the concept of pushing the um distribution of responsibility, the distribution of success, the distribution of pain, all of it down to the lowest level possible. that ultimately the only way for a society to function well is if every individual is carrying their individual burden and I so speaking of cultural theory of mind I didn't realize how sort of Christian that is that there's this idea of there's a spark of divinity in all people and that makes the level of analysis the individual and once you start thinking about the individual it's not that oh well that's that person's burden to carry it's just you're looking upwards to the state to say, "Hey, take care of us all." It's like, "Okay, I'm going to do my bit. Good Samaritan, help this person because I share some sort of proximity or whatever." And there's a celebration of helping people, but there's not a the universal God is just going to carry everybody. You don't have to do anything. It's pick up your cross and carry it, >> right? And I think as we lose that sense of personal responsibility, people need to um instead of the state sort of grabbing up everybody's resource and then disseminating it. If we can get people back in the mindset of like, okay, I need to do my part for me. Like I'm not even saying we have to do it for the collective or anything. Just >> if everybody goes, okay, cool. By me carrying my burden, then it's not a burden on somebody else. And then if that person takes care of themselves, it's not a burden on somebody else and you can deal with things a lot more effectively. >> And I mean to to that point, why is it that in Canada, and I mean it's not that different in the US, but certainly not as bad as in Canada, why do you have such a huge welfare safety net >> so that people can literally have three, four, five generations of only welfare recipients? Now they are not mentally incapacitated. They are not physically incapacitated but I they are literally in terms of my investment in them my biological children but I didn't sign up to raise them. Yeah. But right so that shows you I mean Margaret Thatcher was right when she said I'm I'm paraphrasing right socialism is you know you it's great until you run out of other people's money. Right. So in suicidal empathy I have one of the the last chapters is on parasitic taxation and so on because it's a form of suicidal empathy, right? Because the government saying it's unfair that Tom has more money than Joe and therefore I'm going to take away from Tom and you could apply it to climate activism. Uh it's it's not fair that the rich countries have more. Let's tax it and give it to Rwanda. Why? What's the moral principle that says that you're entitled to other people's money doing nothing in return? Okay, you want money, then serve as a crossguard at the school. Paint my do something, clean the the the right, but we entitle people. So, in in Quebec, you get these unbelievable benefits, but they're not free. You have to make I don't want to get upset but because I'm but I'm going to talk about it. If you look at the royalties that were taken from me for say parasitic mind the amount of years that I have to work as a professor at the rate that I can save on my professor's salary adds 10 years to my career as a professor. >> Is that fair? What's the moral calculus that says that the government can do this to me? Let's put it another way. And some people say, "Wow, I never heard it mentioned like this. Imagine you're a slave that I mean a literal slave. From January 1st to December 31st, every ounce of your labor is owned by somebody else." Okay. Now, let's look at Quebecers. At the rate that I'm taxed in Quebec, when you add up all the taxes, I work free for the government as a 100% slave until about end of August. >> Yo, >> yeah, yeah. >> That's wild. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Take notes. Okay. In end of August, >> the government says that the product of my mind, you know those things called books. Yeah. >> Where I talk about my story in Lebanon, they own the right to that. What I went through in the Lebanese civil war is theirs to gain. Is that moral? Is that ethical? Well, if I'm a loser, if I'm a parasite, you know what I you know what I write to God when he complains about parasitic taxation? Why are you such an [ __ ] Jew? Why can't you be kind to the other people who didn't get to make it as an author like you did, Jew? That's parasitic taxation. That's suicidal empathy. Being kind with the sweat and toil of others. >> Okay. So, um I have a hypothesis about how we ended up here, which I'll oversimplify to things have been too good for too long that people have forgotten. Also, we can print money. So to me this is an economic question. Um how do you think we ended up here and is there a way to reverse this or is this uh where the government becomes ever so more suicidal where we've got the civilization >> uh sepicu knife buried into the abdomen like do we take it out do we get stitched up like how does this work? >> Amazing question look the good news is there is a template by which you could reverse the trend. The bad news is I see no evidence that anybody has the stomach to do it. So I I don't know where you fit in terms of politically how much libertarian you are and so on. I want the government to have a police force, maybe the firemen, maybe the military, maybe remove the snow if we're in Canada. And I want you to [ __ ] off. Okay? You don't get to decide by having a 21-year-old police woman standing at the corner of our residential area in hiding to make sure that if we jwalk on a residential street where it turns out that I've got the cognitive acuity on a one-way street to look in the middle of winter and say, "Oh, look, there isn't a car barreling down at me. I will use my personal dignity to cross the street. But there's a 21-year-old who is much younger than some of the socks that I wear that says, "Hey, you jaywalked $82 ticket." That's overreach of the government. Right. By the way, literally that story, I was telling it to my then 9year-old son. He's older now when I was explaining to him the concept of libertarianism. Okay. So, how do we do it >> completely? Uh Elon Musk came into Twitter and bought it, turned it to X. What was the number that he cut? Was it 80%. >> Yeah, basically. >> Where's X today? So, how can we live in a world where you could cut off 80% of the people? X didn't collapse. Well, there is nothing that is as orastic in its bureaucratic bloat as the governments, right? I mean, in in in suicidal empathy, I list I mean, it almost seems like it's satirical, right? Like, uh, developing queer cartoons in Peru, 4 million. Uh, circumcision of Mozambique men, $18 million. In what world does the US or Canadian government pay for circumcision of Mozambique men? But when you are suicidally empathetic, you're a good person. You are someone who doesn't get restricted by national boundaries. The world Peter Singer explained to us who hap he happens to be a degenerate himself. But he he explained to us that we have to increase the moral circle, right? To be kind to animals, which I agree with, by the way. But the suicidally empathetic see no borders. There is no border to my house. There's no border to my biological children. The Mosamb beek guys who can't afford a uh circumcision, we pay for it. The queer people who want to have a drag queen show in Peru, we should pay for that. Get rid of all that stuff. I mean, let's do an experiment. How about this? If you run a deficit and you're in the government for two years, I'm being hyperbolic, but just play the game with me. we take you to the back of the building and we execute you. Do you think that the government would run a deficit if that were the case? >> Probably not. >> Probably not. So, in other words, there is a template by which we could fix the problem, but I don't see the fact that anybody has the stomach to do it because while I am serving in government, I won't have to bear the consequences of all the actions that I will. Maybe my [ __ ] children will by having a $39 trillion debt, but f them. Who cares? I I'll be gone by then. I'll be retired. So, you know what? Let's double down. Let's blow it. Let's print money. So, politicians are the only folks who literally are not within the purview of cause and effect relationships. Right? If I jump off a building, there's this thing called gravity that will make sure that my brain will splatter. But but politicians can do this stuff for generation after generation. What's the cost? The biggest cost is you don't get reelected. >> Well, [ __ ] it. Print money. >> Yeah. The printing money thing uh is a big part of that equation. Okay. So if I look at all of this, one of the things that I see that's really playing out in a somewhat violent fashion is that I don't think it is the people are not concerned about their, you know, this being bad down the road. I don't think they understand economics and I think that Bology Shrina Vasan has a really interesting concept that there's no longer a United States of America. There's a red and a blue America. They don't share values. Yeah. And so when you look at what's going on, it's already the thesis that I'm laying out, which is values matter almost more than anything. What you have is a collision of values. And so we have this um we have these two almost literally different ethnic groups because if you look at the stats, they don't intermar almost at all. And so they're pulling away from each other. They're in their own echo chambers. They listen to different influencers. They're on different apps. So there isn't this sort of shared overlap world. Uh there's grotesque misunderstanding of economics and so they're just running out their value system. One, do you think that makes sense? And if it does make sense, because I agree with you in terms of balancing the budget and getting the government to stop, you know, trying to take care of everything and being parasitic in terms of taxes. But if that really is true, I think we have a slightly different problem where you'd have to address that first before you can get to those. No, I agree with you. Look, I I could share some personal stories. There's a to to your point about building separate worlds. There's a great guy who who I consider to be a very good friend. We we we we haven't seen each other much throughout the years, but he was pursuing his MBA at Cornell when I was doing my PhD. We became very good friends. Very very gentle guy, very poised, elegant, lovely guy. And every few years we'd see each other as if we've never left each other. I was traveling to give a lecture in Savannah, Georgia, and he's in the Atlanta area. And so I reached out to him and I said, "Hey, I'm I'm coming uh to your area. Is there any possibility that we could meet?" He writes me this long private message on LinkedIn actually where he says, "Unfortunately, given some of the posts that I've seen you put up >> Yeah. >> on Trump >> Yeah. Yeah. So, and I was thinking, but what did I Now, first of all, I'm Canadian. So, if if if if your concern is whether I voted for someone, I did not vote for Donald Trump. >> But from his perspective, what he was most upset about is I I showed absolutely no evidence that I thought that Trump was an existential threat to the United States. As a matter of fact, I was in Mara Lago. You were there. So I was even sharing the same oxygen as him and he said unfortunately we can no longer be friends and so he's actually in suicidal empathy in the book. I didn't mention his name out of courtesy but >> that speaks to your point. How could somebody with whom? So we would have met probably in 1991. So we've got three plus decades together. I'm Canadian. So I literally had no influence in terms of my voting behavior or anything. I mean, yes, you could say I'm in the Donald Trump sphere, the Elon, the this, but in what way would it make sense for you to have the calculus that says, "I loved God and he was a great guy and a close friend of mine. Right now, what he's done, I could no longer have a relationship with him." >> You heard, but you're marching up to that with Tucker. And I know you'll say, "Well, okay, that's a little more personal given anti-semitism, but what if somebody were like blue hair posting and being like, uh, what do they call it? Septum core." Like just like all in uh oh god, what is it? You're posting recently, cameltoe karens. Like that was just >> That's what I thought you were going to talk about actually. >> No, no, that was hysterical by the way. Uh, and shame on you because there are certain people I'm perfectly fine if they're going to camel toe up. Let me tell you uh but it I I can see anybody saying okay yeah whoa like that person's into something that now I'm like h like I'm not so sure about that. So can you not see from their perspective how for them it's like it we just don't share a value system anymore. Look, uh, nearly all of my academic colleagues are not of the same political persuasion as I >> and that doesn't bother you. >> It bothers me ideologically that in my view they are paretitized. >> It hasn't stopped me from being super collegial with them in the tea room or the coffee or the faculty lounge. In other words, I can still be fully I mean there is no ecosystem that is more lopsided in its parasitic tendencies than academia because all of those parasitic ideas originate in academia and yet I've been a professor for 32 years. So in a sense that exactly speaks to your point. I could still operate in that environment, still be bewildered by some of the insanity that my colleagues, but I could look at them as individuals and say, "But you know, he's a nice guy." >> H to completely shut off. I I could no longer be friends with you because you said nice things about Kamala. I literally would have nobody to talk to on campus because I don't I mean I'm pro, you know, actually, let's go back to Thomas Soul. Do you remember when Thomas Soul, and I'm paraphrasing him, he said, uh, whenever someone speaks to you about diversity, ask them how many Republicans are in their sociology department. >> Okay, that's exactly it. There's almost no one that I've ever met, but by the way, that's why I love Old Miss because the people who hired me in that center are actually of the same political persuasion of me. They actually think that the very difficult conundrum of identifying who's male or female has actually been solved because there have been 117 billion people who have existed as homo sapiens who seem to have navigated through this very difficult con conundrum until 15 minutes ago when we we lost the ability. So if I were to start disassociating, I'd have nobody to talk to in academia and yet here I am. Now, do you think that there's something to the um I think evolutionarily there is a reason that some people lean left and there's a reason that some people lean right. I think that to get us to cooperate as a species, you need both. >> Yes. >> So, if that's true, do you think there's something about left-leaning people that makes them more likely to reject, to do the purity test, that kind of thing? >> I do. Uh but before I answer this one, so please remind me if I don't. I think uh I often now joke around that I should get some royalties from these guys because the number of times that I've plugged their book. There are these two French psychologists, Ugo Merier and Dan Sperber. They wrote a book called The Enigma of Reason. They're evolutionary psychologists where they argued that peop that our faculty of reasoning did not evolve to seek some objective truth but rather to win arguments >> once you can see that that's true. It's actually quite a pessimistic realization because you re you realize that when I'm trying to give you the mind vaccine by by showing you tons of evidence in support of my position, you just go la, I don't want to hear it. If anything, it actually further solidifies your own position that is exactly opposite to the one that I just gave you with my evidence. Right? Uh um Leon Festinger the the pioneer of uh cognitive dissonance theory has a great quote which I cite in uh chapter 7 of parasitic mind where he basically literally says the more evidence you give someone to their against their anchored position the stronger they take that as proof that they are right. I mean literally it's hallucinatory right. So to your point, I think we already are facing an uphill battle. >> So just humans, humans are like that. >> Humans suck because I am committed to my position. >> If that position becomes a central feature of my personhood, >> then I'm even more anchored. It's not just an abstract thing about uh which prime numbers do I like versus. It's a foundational. I'm an empathetic person. I don't believe we should have it should be open borders. I'm a kind person, therefore I'm a Democrat. I'm right. The Republicans are callous. They can't so on. Okay. So I don't So to to your point, to answer your question now, I do think that there are certain architectures of personality types that are more likely to gravitate towards the left than towards the right. And to that point there is great research which I cite in parasitic mind that some of those realities are not only captured by our personality types they're captured by our morphology. >> H >> yeah you ready? >> I'm ready. >> Okay. So you you I wish this were these were my studies because I love them. They're amazing. But uh there thereof from a colleague some a Danish guy. You you give people men a grip strength. Uh >> Oh god, I can see where this is going. >> Oh yeah. Isn't it amazing? >> Yes. >> Okay. I mean there are different metrics you could use, but let's do grip strength. >> Yeah. And that's perfect. >> Grip strength. Then you ask them, "What do you think about military interventions? What do you think about socioeconomic redistribution? >> Go ahead. Give me the Go ahead. >> Uh, if you can't squeeze it close, you're going to want to redistribute. If you can smash that [ __ ] close, you're all for military intervention. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. When When I literally carry the morphology of power within my my being, my physical being, I go, "F you." >> Yeah. The the world is a tough place. We fight for things and may the winner walk away with with the with the loot. >> Yeah. When I cross my legs like Barack Obama, like Justin Trudeau, when I am castrated, when I'm a girl, when I cry at Bridget Jones Diary movies, when I ask my wife if I'm looking fatter in my jeans because I'm so kind, when I wear the fool, then I think that economic redistribution is the right way to go. And look, I'm starting to tear up thinking that Rwans don't have my opportunities, right? So, not just your personality, your morphology is deeply embedded within your political system. By the way, >> wild here's a great, you're going to like this one. There's a great paper, I'm going on a tangent, but it's it's relevant to what we're talking. There's a great paper published in 1971, which I assign to all my PhD students. It's a paper titled That's Interesting exclamation point. It's a sociologist who wanted to argue that good research is not just research that has what's called internal validity. Meaning you controlled for the right controls. You manipulated the right variables. It it it has to be more than having methodological rigor for it to be good science. The most important feature of science is to trigger the that's interesting. So as I was saying the thing I saw on your face you spoke that's interesting because what this sociologist was arguing in this paper he listed 12 criteria epistemological criteria of what would constitute interesting research and all 12 were a surprising effect that heretofor you would not have thought were related. So it is very unlikely for people to imagine that your economic and political orientation is linked to your musculature. >> That's interesting. >> That is interesting. >> And so when I when I give lectures in front of all kinds of fancy scientists, I say most of you do research that's pure utter shite. to borrow a a term from our friends from the Irish UK region. And they're like, "What? How dare you?" I say, "You you you're both you're all great meth methodologists. You do the science well." But here's let's take a study. I'm going to do a study demonstrating that if customers were very happy with the restaurant, they're more likely to return to this restaurant. Holy [ __ ] Who could have thought of that brilliant insight? >> I never would have guessed. >> Who would have known this? Now, if I show you that paper, it has a lot of very fancy mathematical stuff. So, you go, "Ooh, this is nice." No, no, just give me the bottom line. So, more satisfied customers return to this restaurant. Why aren't you on the plane to Stockholm to receive your Nobel Prize already? This is unbelievable, right? So, that's not interesting. So in my 32y year career when I review papers I literally can take the exact same paragraph and cut and paste it to every paper. This is this was greatly designed and executed. The end result pure [ __ ] >> Everybody could have guessed it. My two-year-old son could have known this, >> right? And so that the example that I just gave is exactly what I try to get my students looking for a research project to come up with. Come up with something that goes, "Holy, I could have never imagine putting these things together." >> Yeah. Well, along the lines of the actual morphology thing, how much of the trouble that we see today, full stop, is born of the feminization of institutions writ large? >> All of it. I've I've sat in academic departments. How's everybody doing? How's everybody? It's so nice to see you all. And I look around, I go, am I in a kindergarten class or am I in a in a academic department at a top business school in the world? Because the the chair was a woman and the associate dean was a woman and the dean is a woman and they're all so kind. They're all so empathetic. Not this chair with the kindergarten affectation but the previous chair had also been a woman. She had asked the department to whenever they had an accolade to send it to her so she could announce it in the major thing. I took her to her word. So I sent her the tsunami of accolades. But you know what she responded? She's kind. She's very empathetic. What do you think she said to me? Um, don't ever do that again, Jew. >> Not not quite. No, no, she's empathetic, so she wouldn't she wouldn't use such resist. No, she she said maybe don't send all of your accolades because it's making some of your colleagues feel bad. So you mean the losers in the department who last published something in 1971 and have been deadwood will feel bad if the winners who publish tons of stuff exhibit their productivity >> this is like shutting down AP classes and stuff it's so ridiculously >> exactly so it's all due to feminization by the way while both men and women could suffer from suicidal empathy Boy, it is promulgated with great pride by women. It's the women who hold the hash refugees welcome sign as they're about to be gang raped by said refugee. >> Jesus Christ. >> But they're kind. By the way, in the book it um in in Suicidal Empathy, you're going to read parts or I don't know if you'll listen to the book. >> Listen, >> listen. Actually, I just did the narration. This was my first book that I've that I've narrated. At some points I had to stop because I was cracking up reading what I had written. I love that. Okay. So there are some cases that you go this can't be God made this up just for satire. But of course I've got the references so they're they're real cases. There's a woman. Okay. So about speaking about feminization. There's a woman a white woman. She's an ally. She's an ally to people of color. >> Camel. >> Probably Camel. Just check. Uh, undoubtedly Kamlto. Uh, she decides to go to Haiti. >> People that don't know your Twitter are really going to wonder why I keep saying that. By the way, >> uh, I could explain it after if you want. Uh, and there is a sequella to that story that happened yesterday. That's really cool. It happened in person. You You might want to hear that. Okay. So, uh, this woman goes to Haiti. Uh, you know, white liberal, empathetic woman. >> Oh my god, I know this story from you. But >> I know where you're headed. From you. from you. From here you >> okay she goes to uh Haiti to demonstrate that the stereotype of the black male violent guy is completely promulgated by you know white supremacy and so on and she's going to just dismantle this. Well, she's taken to a rooftop where she is repeatedly, violently raped by a Haitian man on the rooftop. And as she is being raped, she's begging him to stop because does he not realize that she is a Malcolm X fan? What? You're a Malcolm X fan? >> Abort rape. and I am a Haitian man from Porto Prince France. And so, so Malcolm X is really within my mental model, >> right? >> So imagine for a second what your calculus in navigating through the world must be that number one, you thought absolutely I can walk around as a woman in Haiti and there is no trouble that will be fit me befall me because obviously this is all promagated by white supremacy. There's error number one, but then error number two, when you told him that you are a black ally, you were at the BLM rallies and you're Malcolm X scholar, that didn't dissuade him from raping you. Now, but this doesn't finish there. At the end she said not withstanding that my brother whatever was raping me I know that it wasn't against me but he was fighting against the injustice of the white man and as such I am thankful for the experience. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. So therefore I went there because there's going to be no rape because we know for a fact that black men don't rape. That's just a fact. Okay. Only white men rape. When he does rape me, it's really an attack on white supremacy, not me. I'm just a vehicle for his rage. >> And then when I told him I'm Malcolm X, he didn't stop. So, how many things wrong went in your mental model of the world for you to arrive to all of those bifurcations in the road? >> Yeah. >> That's what suicidal empathy, that's what fe the feminine ethos is. >> Yeah. Okay. So let's ask the hard question. Uh your daughter can hear us speaking right now. >> Yes. >> And if it is true that one of the things that's really going wrong uh is the feminization of a just vast swath of our institutions um have we created a civilizational level problem by inviting women into the workforce? >> No. But there look we are a sexually dimorphic species meaning that there are evolved sex differences between men and women. So for example there are many bird species that are nonsexually dimorphic. You can't tell unless you do a intimate exam who is male or female. Other bird species you can clearly tell. The males are a lot more extravagant. Typically they're sexually selected. The whip the females are drab. So there are wonderful traits that women possess for civilizational flourishment. There are wonderful traits that males possess. And the trick is to know which trait is optimal under which condition. So it is not tr it would be wrong to make the blanket statement women don't belong in the work force. But it is equally wrong to say that universities should be built on an epistemology of care rather than an epistemology of truth. And these are actual real world words. A lot of the feminization of the uh of academia argues that the epistemology of truth seeeking, the epistemology of elite knowledge, the epistemology of excellence are masculine traits that lead to, you know, toxic masculinity. We have to have an epistemology of care. No, we don't. We don't. Okay. So for example if so that leads by the way to forbidden knowledge. Forbidden knowledge is the idea that if there is some scientific knowledge that can result in negative downstream consequences then you shouldn't do it. So for example if I find that people from Islamic immigrant backgrounds are oh say 400 times more likely to commit rape than say the native population. What's the point of publishing that? You're simply marginalizing those poor immigrants even more. So, you're using an epistemology of care and empathy rather than the pursuit of truth unencumbered by political correctness. So, so no, I'm certainly not comfortable to say women don't belong in the workforce. Of course, they do. But I'm saying that >> apply your feminine power or your masculine power. And and men and women can have both of those traits, right? Women do love a guy who is kind and empathetic, but not in an alley when they're being accosted to be raped. Then they don't want an empathy guy. They want a brute. Yes. So like >> to stop the rape >> to stop the rape. So what you what you want life is about triggering the right response at the right moment. So for example, it's not true that we are a thinking animal and not a feeling animal. The problem arises when we trigger the affective system. when it should be the cognitive system or vice versa. When I go down a dark alley, I have evolved this the emotional system to have a fear-based response because I see some young men loitering, my heart starts going up, my blood pressure goes up. That's an autonomic affective response. That makes evolutionary sense. If I'm trying to do well on a calculus exam where I should be triggering my cognitive system, if I get that autonomic fear response, it's not going to help me much, right? So femininity is great, masculinity is great. We need both of it. Use it in the right time, in the right context. >> Yeah. God said, "Every time I get to spend time with you, it is glorious." Where can people spend time with you? Find the book. >> U Thank you. Well, I'm only glorious because I have unbelievable guest uh hosts that orchestrate the best out of me. So, thank you. >> Well, let's not downplay your sex appeal. >> That is true. Uh, and thank you for not pointing out to the fact that I'm about 10 pounds heavier than the last time I was here. >> Gad, you could put on 10 more and I'd be okay. >> I just want to make sure there's camel toe somewhere. That's that's all I'm going to say. >> People are going to now go. >> You have to go see his ex, I assure you. >> Go check it. Uh, well, my book comes out on May 12th. You can pre-order it right now. It's titled Suicidal Empathy, Dying to Be Kind. You can even order signed copies. >> Great title. >> Uh, have you seen the cover? >> I haven't seen the cover because I got the PDF. No, the cover is a it's really beautiful. Sort of archival antiquarian cover that shows a uh sheep holding a free the wolves sign. >> Nice. >> Boom. Uh so anyways, so you could you could please pre-order the the copy. It'll be out May 12th. You could follow me on XGAD G- A. And I also host a show not nearly as popular as Tom's or his wife's uh called the sad truth. S a truth. I love it. All right, everybody. If you have not already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace. If you like this conversation, check out this episode to learn more. The president of the United States of America has enormous power. Mocking Allah on Easter as you announce total war against the civilian population seems like a dangerous game to me. What do you see as a relationship between the Jewish lobby