The Price of Obsession Nobody Talks About - Zach Braff

As somebody that's basically a philistine and has seen maybe two or three theater shows in his entire life. >> Yeah. >> Of a career of being a spectator, and obviously a person who kind of understands the art form as well, what are the ones that stand out to you as uh this is that was really really special? >> Well, I'll tell you Les Mis Rob, which is which is which which is a probably a very common answer for people. I was like 13 years old and I had never really been moved to tears by art before. I had never seen something as as a young person so beautiful in my life. I was so moved by the music. I was so moved by the the stagecraft. I was the story was thrilling. So, that was a really seminal moment in my young life. You know, my dad had been bringing me to see all the play Yeah, I lived in North Jersey. So, my dad would bring me in, you know, it took 45 minutes and we he loved theater. He he got me into it. So, he would bring me to see all these plays. A lot of them were sillies. A lot would go over my head. Um but I loved it. And then Les Mis Rob was the first one where I was at the right age to to feel emotion, to have tears streaming down my face. And that's when I was like, "What is this? This art form is is something that is so powerful." And so, then I went on to see like so many productions that both both musicals and dramas and comedies where there was just so much joy for me in seeing it happen live and having it be different every single time. And the shared experience with people around you who are also swiping a tear or laughing. Uh that that's just something's really magical. When it's great. When it's great, it's just so fun. >> What about when it's bad? >> When it's bad, it's really bad and uh you know, I never leave at intermission just because I've I've I'm an actor myself and I feel too bad to do that. Um Uh yeah, it can be it can be it it can be horrible. But, um I try, you know, I do I do I do filter what I'm not I'm not going to see things totally blind. >> in blind. >> I don't go in totally blind. No, that would be that would be that would I'd be lying if I said I was just going to any random show. I I definitely go to what I've heard my friends uh say, "You got to check this out." >> Mhm. I've heard that you wanted to be a doctor at one point. >> When I was in high school, there was a program in my high school with the the town had a volunteer rescue squad. Um I guess uh that that's just the way it works in some towns um in New Jersey at least. I can only speak to that is that the town has a volunteer rescue squad of people who are EMTs who who donate their time and there's an ambulance service. On serious calls, the paramedics come in a separate ambulance from the hospital. Um and they had a program for kids that were 17 and up to volunteer and get trained and go on calls. And I went on many calls um with the ambulance service. And you know, you're mostly doing the grunt work. You're you're carrying gear. You're moving the stretchers. Uh you're you're taking blood pressures. But it was thrilling. And uh I think there was a moment there where I thought, "Wow, what a what an exciting career path to be and not that I could necessarily uh stand the education to become a real doctor um ironically. But um but maybe a paramedic or maybe um something in the something in the field." And um and then I just never really I excelled at the classes that you know, biology and chemistry and and all the things that you need really great at. I I just didn't have the interest or the skill. >> The fun bits were fun, but the technical bits got in the way. >> was fun and coming to the rescue was fun and um uh I loved all that. I loved I loved coming to the rescue. I loved um the adrenaline of it um and and feeling like you helped people. And and you felt really good. Also, there was a volunteer aspect of it that I'm that I'm sorry that that was an part of it, too. I was I felt great that I was doing all of this and volunteering this in service. Yes, I >> It's interesting you get the three emergency services, right? You've got ambulance, fire, police. There's an issue going on. The ambulance turns up. Everybody's grateful. There's an issue going on. The fire service turns up. Everybody's grateful and turned on. The police turn up. People get a little bit suspicious. Unless you're the very person that needs it, everyone immediately gets on watch. And I always think I always feel bad for police officers. They're doing a thing. They're still doing a service. And in many ways they're in the line of fire. They're dealing with much more kinetic situations. I guess five firefighters too. And also I'm sure ambulance, but you think [ __ ] like police officers really, you know, they're being shouted at and there's all of this potential stuff and they're looking over their shoulders and I know. That that must be hard. It must be hard to be a a police officer when you look at your fellow, you know, of the three branches that you could have gone down in emergency services. Like people sort of clapping applauds and there's a lot more >> heroism and that and the public perception I think of police officers has had a rough run over the last decade or so. >> Absolutely. And there's a lot more nuance to that profession than fire and and ambulance. >> Stop fire, get cat out of tree, or keep person alive as opposed to do one of like 50,000 million things here. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Um but there was a burglary a home invasion on my street uh this week and uh it's scary. I was certainly happy that they were they were there. >> Home invasion? Like a robbery >> Yeah, they broke in the house and and uh held this woman and and and and stole her jewelry and were in no rush to get out of there and it was scary. >> That's gnarly. >> Yeah, it's gnarly. Yeah, I um >> It's an interesting one thinking about what jobs you would do if you weren't doing what you did. I was thinking about this the other day. Have you Have you ever obviously you maybe didn't have the chops to do the >> I I have the I didn't have the interest in in in uh in in school enough to go to get into medical school or the SAT scores or the or the grades or I mean, you really have to love school. Um I love design. I you know, I think I'm really into uh architecture and design. And I think that kind of overlaps with what I do as a director because you're hiring and collaborating with extremely talented crafts people who are the best at what they do. And you're saying, "I have this rough idea. Will you help me execute it?" And then you put together this team of insanely talented in the case of film, cinematographers and production designers and costume designers and actors and everyone comes together and they help you execute. And uh And and and to me that if I if I wasn't allowed to work in entertainment for some reason, that's something that really lights me up cuz I I I do love um architecture and design. >> Who's someone on a film set or on a on a production that makes a massive difference that most people from outside of the industry don't even consider? >> The cinematographer, I mean, I think it's the is the number one uh collaborative person the director has. That is his his or her right hand person. >> What's that role for people that don't understand? For people that don't know um the way that this everything is photographed. The the the the lens choice, the way just for example that this interview is being lit. It was lit by a talented cinematographer who chose where to put these three lights and and how those how what lenses he was going to put on the cameras and how in post-production it was going to be colored. So much of that makes a difference. I would imagine a lot of laymen uh think that that's all the director. The director is sort of the conductor of the orchestra. If the crew is the orchestra, the director's the conductor of the orchestra. And if the first violinist is, let's say, the most important person in the orchestra, uh I I would say that's the cinematographer. And the director is there going, "I can't play the the violin like that. I can't play the bassoon like that. You guys are the best at what you do. My job is to go a little more of this, little more little less of that." And, um And, yeah, the other position that I'm sure most people not in the business I'm sure most people in the business don't know anything about is the first AD, who is the first assistant director, who's running the whole set. Um in theater parlance, it's kind of like the stage manager, but you know, the director is in charge of overseeing the creative aspects of of what we're making, but someone is marshalling this often times enormous crew and all the background and all the actors all around. And the And the head of that department is the first assistant director, and that's a very stressful job. They um they stereotypically die young because it's so stressful. No way. Yeah. >> They're trading their lifespan for good production and not going into OT. >> They always laugh about it. They're always like, "You know, we They They always They always have a They always laugh and go, 'You know, we stereotypically die young.'" Um but it's very stressful job. It's hard to It's hard to do. >> They're the people that make sure it doesn't go into overtime. >> Yeah, they're managing how much time you have. So, when you make a schedule for We shoot Scrubs, for example, in in 5 days. And so, they're >> And how many episodes in 5 days? >> We shoot one episode in 5 days. >> Right. >> And so, they always always, even back in the day, yeah, 5 days. >> Oh, okay. >> It's um it's kind of crazy. Um the new streaming comedies have the ones that I direct have um have sort of moved to 6 and 1/2 days, which is a lot, which you think only is a day and a half more, but it's a huge difference in terms of executing it in a in a relatively sane way. We're talking about a half hour of television. Uh doing it in 5 days is especially a show like Scrubs that has these uh surreal set pieces and uh you know, the fantasies and >> Lots of moving parts. >> Lots of moving parts like camera being a character and also to mention that you know, 60 to 100 background uh every day. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> So, it is the it's my it's a lot to um to it's a big cruise ship to to to to move around and um the first AD is in charge of making that schedule and um telling you like, "Hey, we're sort of [ __ ] for time. You got you got to move on." >> Yeah. Wow. So, that means that there's some scene that you aren't quite happy with and you're like, "Dude, this you it's done." Like you're done with the scene. >> Well, you as the director are the are the ultimate uh decision-maker and "Am I going to spend more time on this and then save [ __ ] that next scene. I'll do that. I was I had a lot I I good ideas about how I was going to shoot it. I'm going to shoot it way more simply now because this isn't working yet." You're you're the one who's in charge of of the day the time has been allotted for that day for for just to do these scenes. You have to do those scenes. >> Yep. >> Of course, occasionally you have to punt one, but for the most part you have to do that and it's you're constantly watching the time and going, "Okay, fuck." And what we do is we the you'll I get a special call sheet that only certain people have, the producers and the AD and that has little times >> written into all of the schedule because you don't want everyone knowing that you're behind or you're ahead. It's not good for for not a good leadership thing I I don't believe. It's best that you just You do your job. I'll tell you when to move. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Yeah. How's it feel to be back in an old production? >> I love it. It's so it's a a whole new responsibility for me because I I did this show as a as a young man. I was very green. Um I learned so much doing it and now I'm back in a leadership executive producer role being the boss. And the guy who taught me everything I know is is not really there and he um is there to advise me on the phone and he's there to get involved when there's a fire that needs putting out, but I'm back now in a in a in a capacity as as the leader and uh and it's a whole lot more stressful than just showing up and being funny. >> [laughter] >> Is that Talk to me about the the challenge of going from I just need to show up and do my lines to I need to show up and do everything and do my lines. >> It's extraordinarily stressful. Um >> Did you want that? Did you not just want to go back and have fun? >> That wasn't going to work. Um So Bill Lawrence created the show and Bill is it was his sort of one-person vision. You know, it was a very specific vision. The reason it worked so much it was it was so unique. It was comedy, it was drama, it had surreal fantasies. Uh it had the the the setting of a hospital which has infinite possibilities for for comedy and drama. These seven main characters that audiences really fell in love with and and followed them for for eight and a half years. Um but Bill has many shows happening right now. So as much as everyone wanted Scrubs to come back including Bill he couldn't he certainly couldn't be writing it and micromanaging it. So who would do that? Um There's someone who runs the writers' room and is the head writer. Uh her name is Aseem Batra. She was a writer on the original Scrubs. Um but the writers' room is here in LA. We shoot the show in Vancouver. So who is going to be overseeing Scrubs up there the production of it all? Um I had I had partners um a several producing partners who helped me, but I I know the show better than anybody. The truth the truth. I know the show better than anyone. I direct the show. Um and I and and my mentor was the guy. I mean, I'm I'm the one The funny thing is I keep saying this is that the pilot of this new Scrubs is about JD coming back because Dr. Cox says you should come back. Um we should get the band back together. You should come back and make a difference and and and and and JD acquiesces and says, "Yes, I'm I'm here. I can't wait to work with you." And then his mentor goes, "Oh, you misunderstood. I'm not going to be here. You're in charge." That's the pilot of the reboot the revival. And we were up there shooting and it's literally what happened. I had had this impression even though Bill had said like, "Hey, I'm I'm running like three other shows. I can't And I also There's also just some stuff with you know, it's a it's a Disney property. He has a Warner Brothers deal. He can't be there. >> Complexity. >> So but I didn't really I truly didn't have the epiphany until we were shooting when I went, "This is literally the show we're making. He's the one who called me and said let's get everyone back together. This will be so fun." And now we're literally shooting the pilot and it's so intense and so hard and and we're really trying to nail this for the fans and he's like, "Oh, and by the way, I think you may have misunderstood. Like I'm not going to I'm not going to be there. >> Mhm. >> This is you. You got this." >> Mhm. >> And so I I did have to step up in a way that I hadn't foreseen. Um and it was very stressful. But when the pilot was cut, it was it changed everything. Everyone was like, "Oh, this could be really good." The studio the the network Bill himself everyone kind of changed. >> like a passing of the torch when you got the the pat on the shoulder from dad finally after all of these years? You did good, son. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Cuz he's not huge with the compliments. >> Mhm. >> He wrote me a Christmas card this year that was basically like the nicest thing he's ever said to me and then it ended with I hope this will last for at least a year. >> [laughter] >> Nostalgia is a pretty powerful force. >> Yeah. How do you make sure it's um serving the show instead of just trapping it? >> I think we were very aware of what are all the pitfalls of these revivals reboots and revivals. What were >> Welcome back in the middle is come back too. >> Yeah, I didn't never watch that show but it's as I as I understand it and very well received for people that that that show was important to. Um for our purposes I was very I I I I sort of did research on what are the common pitfalls of this and one of them is just trying to milk nostalgia because you're never going to build a new audience by going remember this remember that oh wasn't it funny just doing callback jokes. That gets exhausting and also it doesn't interest a new uh base of the audience you're just having people that were die hard fans of the original show. Which isn't enough to really sustain an audience for a modern day show that's in ABC primetime and streaming on Hulu the next day. You have to find you have to find a way to build the audience. Uh and also Scrubs was very big around the world so there's a lot of people that are going to that be interested but they're not going to going to hold their interest with just nostalgia bait. So the challenge is how do you thread that needle of um finding the tone again and but also bringing in new characters and new scenarios and new people were 50 years old now. We were we were the kids. The show was I just kind of you got to think this is funny I had this epiphany just recently but we were talking about ideas for season two. The show was about three interns. That's what the old show was about. Now the show is about three attendings three senior doctors. The it's a teaching hospital so it's always going to be about have interns in it and about and about teaching and mentorship and friendship. But um the show the focus of the show isn't interns any anymore. The focus of the show is the teachers. >> Most people don't realize how much being dehydrated impacts their performance, which is why for the last 5 years I've started pretty much every morning with Element. Element is a tasty electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't. This orange salt in a cold glass of water is like a sweet salty orangey nectar and I really tell the difference when I take it versus when I don't. It plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue, helps to optimize brain health, and regulates your appetite while also curbing cravings. Best of all, they have a no questions asked refund policy with an unlimited duration, so you can buy it and try it for as long as you want, and if you don't like it for any reason, I'll just give you your money back. Plus, they offer free shipping in the US. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom. That's drinklmnt.com / modern wisdom. >> Did it make you see your experience from the past in a different way? Kind of fascinated at the opportunity to go back Anything that's been formative for anybody, any experience somebody goes to to university and they have a time there and they look back after a decade and they wish they'd done things differently or they see things that passed them by or that they didn't pay attention to or they paid too much attention to and a lot of the time you know if only it's the if only like coach would put me in I would have won the high school game and then my NFL contract blah blah blah. Yeah, in varying degrees of different things. I am I wonder if after a long time, 9 years of shooting it originally, to then a break, to then and back again now different role, if it makes you see that experience previously in a different light or if it allowed you to close some loops and uh >> It made me grateful for how much I learned. I mean, I was I wanted to make movies, I wanted to make TV, I wanted to be a director. I went to film school. I got out of film school, I was working as production assistant and and waiting tables and auditioning and doing all the things I could to have as many you know, um irons in the fire as possible. And then I got Scrubs and I was so excited because every every week there's a different director. And it to me it was like grad school. I got to watch all of these great comedy directors do their thing. And they all had different styles and they have to work within the within the lexicon of the show, but they all had different techniques and styles and ways of doing things and initially I was just so excited to absorb um their their their wisdom and >> speed running production film school basically. >> Exactly. And with at a at a pro level, being the star of the show and everyone else going to their dressing rooms, me hanging out on set being like, "Oh, what are you doing? That's so cool." And them going, "Oh, the reason I'm doing this is cuz of this." And so that was amazing. I think after a while if I look back I go I I I I started taking it for granted. I I see some of my I you know Donald Faison, my co-star, and we did a rewatch podcast of the show. That was one of the >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> Ultimately, I think it was one of the catalysts for this revival. And we were very candid. We we we watched it and and and didn't hold back when we thought we sucked or an episode sucked or our we were overacting and >> Mhm. >> And so I think when when I when I looked back at it I thought, "Wow, I at a certain point I don't think I was as good and and I think I was overacting and I think I I see where the wheels kind of fell off the bus." >> Mhm. >> And so now I'm very aware of now that I'm the in charge, keeping everyone uh uh at a certain quality, especially myself. >> Did you ever feel constrained by being so well known for one role? Obviously, there's a >> Yeah. >> a curse of success in in some degrees. People get typecast, but what was some of the things that were enabled and some of the things that were limited by doing that? >> It's what everybody wants. I want to be really well known, have a wonderful production. >> Yeah. And then at the same time, there's a there's some side dishes that come along with that. >> That happens to almost everyone that's lucky enough lucky enough blessed enough to to have a breakout hit. Um and it's very if you look at the cases in history, it's it's rare that those people get a whole new array of of opportunities. Um Brian Cranston is an perfect example of someone who did. Did Malcolm in the Middle and was was that guy. >> Until he was the next guy. >> Until he and until Breaking Bad that was passed on by as I understand the lore was passed on by like every network and and uh until I think AMC uh made it. And Brian Cranston was reborn. But they um that happens of course because people fall in love with with this beloved character and they don't see you as as another thing. >> Mhm. >> You can't hardly complain because you were one of the extraordinarily lucky people who got a an opportunity like like that. But you do I'm sure every but you can't help but bemoan like I wish I could I wish I could be taken seriously as something else. I I was lucky that I had my directing career that I really wanted to pursue. So my own movies, make my own stuff. Um but in the last couple years um I've been finally getting a couple of parts that are outside the box of of JD. Something actually through Bill again who's been my my biggest champion. He gave me a small part on uh Bad Monkey, his show with Vince Vaughn. And I was only in a couple episodes, but the part was so different and I got so much positive feedback for it and it it it it it really gave me a new found um confidence in my own ability that I had sort of gone like maybe I am just you know, a comic. You maybe I am just a sort of JD kind of guy. I mean, I knew I had more colors in me, but I the response to that little arc on Bad Monkey gave me confidence and in a way in a way and then I went and did this independent movie that just got into Tribeca where I'm 180 degrees from anything I've ever done playing the the this narcotics cop um who lost his daughter. It's a true story and um so that movie's called Clean Hands and it's going to be a Tribeca uh the Tribeca Film Festival this this summer. But so yeah, I would love to do more and more of that. Um but I can't complain. I've had the I've I've been so lucky. >> Mhm. It's interesting I wonder how many people get what you had which is a kind of almost like a kind of Stockholm Syndrome for your own success. So sometimes people get successful for doing a thing. Other people don't want to have to update their world view about that person. So they don't like it when they deviate. I think we see this in our personal lives. Somebody is the party guy or the party girl and then so I'm focusing on my health and it's like uh this is I I did I have to change who I think you are I used to be and like can sometimes cause a little bit of obviously people that are in your life that are wanting the best for you are very happy that you're making this positive lifestyle change, but maybe people who don't want to make that change to their their behavior gets thrown into harsh contrast. >> Yeah. But the pressure from the outside, what's interesting about what you said was that you started to see yourself potentially in that uh through the looking glass thing. And well maybe I am maybe I am just that. Like maybe that is like, you know, lots of other people seem to like me in that and [ __ ] am I ever going to have a better hit than that thing before?" And I wonder whether it's the same thing with people who just want to change their lives. Somebody wants to go from being that thing. It's like, "Well, >> Absolutely. >> everyone else is telling me that I Yeah, I'm so like I was the fun like party girl or whatever and now I'm like I'm just a mom and and I'm that's not as exciting or whatever. Maybe people don't Maybe I'm not made for this." As opposed to No, that it's their It's their problem. It's that person's issue to try and update their view of you as an evolving and changing person. >> By the way, that is true in both acting and in life. That if you change who you're being, the people around you have to change who they're being. If I'm in a scene with you and I'm all of a sudden decide to do a take where I'm [ __ ] screaming at you and yelling in your face, if you're even a halfway decent actor, you're going to react differently in the scene. In life, if I totally change my life and I'm not drinking anymore and I'm not going out late and I'm um going to the gym and and you as my friend are going to shift your way of being around me because you have no choice. Uh we can we can both in acting and in life shift uh uh choose to shift who we're we're being. And then people can't help but react differently to us. >> Yeah, uh Joe Hudson personal growth was it? talks about how if you show up in a different way, the other person's patterns can only usually exist, in his estimation, for about five to seven interactions. >> Oh, wow. >> is a a typical way that you and your partner fight, right? They get to play the victim and you get to play the bully. They get to play the bully and you get to play the savior. Uh whatever the accepted trade is, I'm going to complain to you and you're going to feel aggrieved or you're going to tell me what it is I need to do and I'm going to appease you. Whatever it is. There's a kind of exchange. There's a dance. There's a dance move. >> Yeah, it's like tennis. It's like I'm going to hit the ball over there. You're going to >> to hit it back in a particular way. And then if that happens, especially after and the reason that he said this was after um going and doing something like the Hoffman process or internal family systems or uh groundbreakers, which is his equivalent of a weekend retreat or you you make a really big change in your life. Perhaps it's over a short period of time or a longer period of time. But if this first exchange occurs, the person serves the ball across the net. If you don't hit it back after between five and seven times of that not happening the other person can't keep doing that pattern. They just simple I mean, I'm sure that there's some degree of sociopathy that you're able to get to where you just you just do your thing. >> Oh, there's enough crazy people out there that will just [ __ ] plow through your >> your nice evolved, you know, Renaissance patterns. But um yeah, that you you if you show up in a different way and I've tried to test this and it really does seem to be like scarily true. There's a a line Naval Ravikant's got where he says um we think that we can change other people, but we can't. We think we can't change ourselves, but we can. And the changing of other people, the easiest way to do that, I think in terms of behavior change, is not by telling them what to do. It's just by doing something differently yourself. >> And sticking to it. >> Yes. Yes, because if you then fall back into the go, "Ah, I see." >> Right. I was like >> It's >> It's kind of like training your dog. Uh if you don't as my Jersey accent dog, if you don't um the second if you're creating training your dog, the second they're crying and you let them out, you're [ __ ] You [ __ ] it up. They you know, uh hold the line. You have to hold the line. And in terms of my experience, I didn't know that someone had sort of quantified it to five to seven times. That's interesting. But um if you're going to shift your patterns and shift your way of being, you have to hold the line. You you have to you have to not let the dog out of the crate and and not no matter when no matter how hard they're crying because uh uh because then then then you then those people aren't going to shift their way of being back with you. >> Yes. Yes. What have been the patterns that have been the I'm pretty fascinated by things that double-edged swords. Most times uh someone's greatest strengths are the light side of something that's kind of dark. But um I had Ryan Garcia, WBC world weight champion, um he's obsessive. Incredibly obsessive. And that's caused him at some point in his career to drink a lot and party an awful lot and to struggle to get away from it. Uh it's also caused him to be an absolutely like microscopically focused athlete who would spend told me the story about how when he was a kid he had a fight in the ring with some guy and this guy kept on catching him with a particular shot and Ryan went home and he just spent two hours in his bedroom thinking about why was he What was he doing? Why was he catching me with that shot? What was he doing? What was he doing? What was he doing? Then he went downstairs and told his dad, he's like, "Tell the kid come back tomorrow." He's like, "You Are you sure? You just got beat up pretty bad. Like that didn't look like a good experience." He's like, "Bring him back tomorrow." And what he realized was that there was the guy was stepping and then jabbing and that offbeat was throwing Ryan off and he was like, "Okay, so when he does this thing, I'm going to step and then I'm going to hit him with a right." And sure enough, the the whole game was over because he'd spent two hours replaying this fight in his head cuz he couldn't not do it. >> Yeah. >> But that same skill of the obsession, of the attention to detail, of the hyper-vigilance also gave him the challenges of overbearing, problems with his relationships, problems with his kids, problems with substances, like very very out there anxious sort of on edge thing. >> I'm interested in >> Mine's similar without the beating the [ __ ] out of anybody. >> [laughter] >> No, I I I have OCD and I I I had it bad as a kid. I was a I was one of those kids who had obsessive tapping and you do this math in your head as a child where or I should say I did where I you know, it could be a door knob or it could be this water bottle and you say, "Oh, I have to I have to touch this a certain amount of times or uh something bad could happen to my family." And then even as a young person, I said, "That's crazy, of course, but just to be safe." It's kind of like a superstition. Adults can relate. >> Pascal's wager, the obsessive's wager. >> Yeah. >> Is that what it's called? >> what Pascal's wager is? >> No, but >> Basically that um I don't know whether God is real or not, but the cost of not believing in God is hell and the potential benefit of believing in God is heaven. >> Okay, now imagine that in an a 8-year-old's mind going, "I'm wagering. I don't want my family to be harmed." >> Not sure if it's going to do anything, but I might as well. >> My brain is telling me that something bad could happen to my family if I don't hit this six times correctly. I know that's crazy, but for safety, for everybody's safety, I should do it. >> it again for safety. Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> And that becomes you know, I I I had it pretty I had it bad, but you know, lots of adult and children have it way worse. But I got I I I was diagnosed with with that and it made me an anxious I was anxious. Um My father had a real temper and um and that was scary and I think I was um he was also he also had a lovely side and introduced me to the arts and um and uh and and could be and was hilarious. He introduced me to humor. But he did have quite a temper that uh I think put me for the rest of my life on on edge of when something bad was going to happen, when he would randomly explode. >> Mhm. >> And [clears throat] uh that certainly affected my whole childhood and and and I I I still feel it as an adult and just a sort of resting anxious state. >> Mhm. >> Now, that has been great for for uh for me in terms of writing and and comedy. It's but it's amazing that I I sometimes I find it crazy that I can operate at this in in these very anxious leadership positions >> [laughter] >> where so much is on the line and and there's always a problem and there's um I I I'm so grateful that I figured out how to um just still step into the ring and and and and and do the really hard things like despite not feeling like it. Yeah, despite like gosh, I this is going to be hard and I'm going to experience panic and discomfort and anxiety and adrenaline surges that aren't necessarily normal for for the level of the problem. >> Yeah. >> I mean, an OCD anxious person will often have an adrenaline surge that is like you just almost got into a car accident. And that's what leads some people to panic attacks. That's sort of like the needle going into red and staying in red and then there's a panic attack. Um But but all of that has contributed to I think uh humor and and um and uh and and being in my head a lot and and maybe some good some decent writing that that's come out of that, you know. >> And the attention to detail, right? >> Definitely obsessive attention to detail. >> Correct. And what I was trying to think about is >> Me sitting there at on on Scrubs at 2:00 in the morning for an insert shot of a phone that there's no reason I should be there for. These people can handle it, but I do not want to get to the editorial editorial and see that that's not the frame I pictured of the phone. That's that's that's definitely obsessive, but um it it it I I it's how I make stuff. >> Most people have no idea where their testosterone levels sit. But, what if I told you there was a solution? Something that identifies low T faster than a high school bully, and it won't cost you all your lunch money. That's where Function comes in. Gives you access to over 160 lab tests, including a deep dive into your full hormone panel. Every result is reviewed by clinicians. Anything out of range is flagged. You get clear explanations with a personalized protocol with actionable next steps. So, if something's off, you know exactly what to do about it. Whether you just need to go to the gym more, or you need to play Creed louder in your car, Function will tell you exactly where your testosterone and everything else stands. Normally, this level of testing would usually cost thousands, but with Function, it's $365 a year. That's $1 a day to stop guessing with your health and start knowing. And right now, you can get $25 off, bringing it down to 340 bucks. So, get the exact same blood panels that I do, and save $25 by going to the link in the description below, or heading to the code modernwisdom at checkout. I think ultimately, what what I was thinking about was what is the outcome that that achieves, right? Because we we're talking about process. It's a degree of detail focus orientation, hypervigilance, um, uh, bias towards seeing problems as potentially before they've even Yeah, yeah, yeah, we are we are playing, you know, anxiety is all about uncertainty. >> Yeah. >> I'm uncertain about how the future might unfold. So, if I can think about all of the different ways that it might unfold, I will know all of the different potential catastrophes. You're not You're not usually anxious about all of the ways it might go right. Anxious about all of the ways that it might go wrong. And if I can >> But, as a filmmaker who can't fall asleep at night while staring at the ceiling, obsessing about the big scene you have tomorrow, it's not healthy, but it for you for mind and body, but it is helpful in that I've probably foreseen everything that could possibly go wrong. >> Yep. >> Yep. So, you're all prepared. >> And I've got texts going out at 2:00 in the morning being like, "Did you guys da da da da di di da da da?" And you know, everyone's asleep, but I'm just sitting there going like, "You did order the blee blo blah, right?" You know, like >> Yeah, I mean, it's the same dude, it's the same for me. It's the same for me with this show. Um the uh noticing Dr. Jordan B. Peterson should have a full stop after the B. And you know, you just want to make sure that it's okay. And did we check that we have we got the release form that's signed for the thing that's good good thing di di di di di di di di di di da. So, I'm thinking is lots of people who have that malady strength uh end up in situations where they they can be very successful. So, my favorite example of this is to a degree Eddie Hall. So, he's World's Strongest Man 2017-2018, British dude, 6'3. By the time that he won, he's on the winner's podium and he puts his trophy in the air and he says, "Nana, this one's for you." His grandma died recently and he sort of won this title and he retires there. It's first title and he retires. All he's worked his life to get there. He says, "If I hadn't retired at that point, I would be dead, divorced with no relationship to my kids." He was 400 lb at 6'3 on so many PEDs that his blood pressure was it's so far off the charts that it would you forget hypertension, this was like galactic tension. He was working so hard with his training that him and his wife the relationship was just completely shot. And his kid didn't see him. So, everything was falling apart. And I think about that and I go, "Well, the level of obsession and attention to detail that led him to be the best in the world also had these side effects that came along with it. Physiological ones that were second-order side effects, but the first-order side effects of just not paying that much attention to my wife, not paying that much attention to my child, not nurturing my relationships, not thinking about the peace inside of my own brain. And as far as I can see, the people that are really successful at lots of things, not everything, but at lots of things, are paying an unreasonable level of attention to detail. >> Mhm. >> That is where the I'm trying to net down what is the what's the like corn that's being grown out of this thing for you across your career. It's like an unreasonable level of attention to detail. Sounds like that. In my own performance, in what's going to go on, in what might happen tomorrow, and what did happen today, and the lesson I need to learn, and why is that Why are you Why have we decided cuz I don't understand why you brought that fill light? Oh, it's for the bounce off the wall. >> Right. >> Why why why why why why why why why? And yet that unreasonable level of attention to detail has allowed you to do all these great things. And when people look at the outcome that they want, I would love to be on a show that gets run for gazillion gazillion seasons and they last for 9 years and then comes back and it gets to do the thing. I would like to do I would I would go okay. This stuff does come along for the ride, too. >> Yeah. >> You are also going to not only in the professional life be awake at 2:00 in the morning texting people about the [ __ ] phone shot from yesterday, but then it's also going to bleed over into your personal life as well. >> Yeah. >> You know, you can't switch it up. You can't just say oh I want you to be obsessive and ruminative in this domain and not be you you you you you you What about my relationships? No, no, no, no, no. That's a totally different I should be a different person. I should Jekyll and Hyde, Batman and Bruce Wayne. Um I'm kind of I'm kind of fascinated by that sphere of question. The price that people pay in order to have the strengths that they've got. >> I don't know how people do do this with big families. I don't know how they do it. Um Uh I don't have a family. I don't have children. I don't have a currently even have a partner. Uh I uh you know, I I we when you're doing what I do, you often will have to go away for long periods of time. So, I uh I I would love to have that stuff, but that's probably for me personally. Other people are very good at managing and figuring it out. Obviously, in Hollywood, there's plenty of people with wives and husbands and families. I I um I've yet to have that happen. Um so, I think personally for me, one of the costs has been just obsessively um being career-focused. >> Mhm. >> And um it it be it being um the most important thing to me. The thing I love the most, the thing I get the most gratification out of is is creating. And um I think that's the cost has probably been um giving watering the the the seeds of of of of having um a family and a relationship. >> Mhm. How much of that's been a conscious choice? You know, I'm I know that I'm going to pay this price potentially. And I'm going to continue to focus on the career thing. >> been a conscious choice. It's just been it you know, um I do think I uh if I had put the level of attention and intention and focus into um having a relationship and a family that I put into my career, uh that I'd I'd be I'd have a different life. >> Well, I don't know. Well, I just have a different life. >> [laughter] >> I'd be like uh Jacob in the Bible, but I I I um I have um I I I I I think it's safe to say I just kind of went all in on um I mean, I've had some wonderful relationships, but I I I have been through for the last 25 years completely mhm career-focused. And when I'm not making something, I'm writing something. Or when I'm not writing something, I'm trying to collaborate with someone. I I I I I am the most happy when I'm making stuff. >> Mhm. >> Um so when I'm not, I don't idle well. I don't I don't um I don't sit, you know, on a beach and uh and and and just stare at the ocean well. Maybe for like a week. >> Yeah, I think about um people talk about developing a good work ethic, but very rarely do people talk about developing a good rest ethic. >> I would like that. If you got that book, I'll read it. >> I'm afraid not. >> Um I mean, look, dude, this is I I get I'm this is part of my neuroses, but I go I actually get anxious when I know I'm going to have a long time off. >> Yep. Does work feel like safety to you? >> I just feel like I'm most myself, I'm most in my element when I'm collaborating and creating. And uh and when I'm not, I um I don't feel fully fulfilled. Uh even when I'm writing my own stuff, which is spending a lot of time alone with the computer, I'm not I don't enjoy it. >> You want the collaboration. >> There's no collaboration. It's lonesome. It's depressing cuz some days are I'm sure you write, you know, some days you're just like, I suck. I suck. >> I had a >> And the next day you read it and you're like, actually that's not >> Yeah, I had a I had a I had a better night's sleep. I am I remember this this comment when I first started doing live stuff. So, I just finished this live tour around Australia and New Zealand and Bali and it was so so sick. And um when I first started doing live 3 years ago, uh someone commented with a piece of advice and they said, when I'm on stage, I always have two voices that are equally loud in my head. One makes me Apollo and the other makes me Sisyphus. One says, you're amazing and you can keep going, and the other says, you suck, you should quit immediately. And I just think it's so funny that when you have different elements of the same performance, right? In in your in order to say a thing, you need to write the thing first unless you're going to ad-lib it. And and that means that some days you sit down to write and you're like, "I [ __ ] blow as a writer." And other days you sit down to write and you're like, "I'm great as a writer." But at each different juncture, someone that tends to be a little bit more self-critical, someone that's got this predisposition toward hyper-vigilance, can be like, "That could be better. It could always be better." >> Yeah. >> And that tends itself toward a kind of ingratitude, like micro un gratefulness. Each different time because you can always see I mean, I love that shot of the phone. It was great, but oh, if we just had another half hour, if we if we'd been able to get that next 120D in and we'd just been able to you know, adapted a little bit more. And um but this is what pushes somebody to be unreasonably detail-oriented to get to a level of quality that is so beyond. And the market and status and and and money and acclaim, by design, there can only be one winner. At an award ceremony, there can only be one best anything, right? At a time. The market rewards someone that is going to continue to push and push. >> I don't know how people enter this business without having the mentality that they're going to go all in on it because what I tell young people who I see starting out is like, okay, but make sure you're you're going to go 100% of what you have because every in this town, every single person around you not every single person. There's hundreds of thousands of people here that are that are going to work really really really hard. >> to have your lunch if you don't. >> Absolutely. If you're going to audition and you don't have it memorized and you didn't work on it as hard as you possibly could and work with your friends or work with a coach or or in this case, there's so much self-taping, get a good lighting setup and a good camera and and a nice backdrop and and you're just phoning it in. Do you know how many [ __ ] people are going all out for that same part >> basically pointless. >> You are the wasting everyone's time, especially yours. >> Um it's crazy when you come across people that are that are trying I mean I I only know this profession, but it's crazy when you come across people that are doing it half-assed. It's like, what are you This is you going to get blown out of the water. >> It's very much a winner takes all thing where only one person can play the role. >> Right. >> Only one person can be this particular but the [ __ ] AC, right? That's on set. There's only one Maybe there's not actually, but there's only one number one AC, right? >> Well, three cameras, three. >> Okay, you know what I mean. You know what I mean. >> There's only one A camera first AC. >> There we go. Thank you. Yeah, you can continue to go up the stack. Um typically there's only one person for each big thing, right? And you go, well if that means that I'm not prepared to go all in on that one Oh, think about it in the personal standpoint. Um you're going to go out dating. That person, unless you go polyamory, that person is only going to be in a relationship with one person. And if you are not showing up in the best possible way, being attentive, thinking about them, replying in an orderly manner, doing stuff, being thoughtful. Somebody that's just a bit more thoughtful or a bit more chill like even the thoughtfulness of like, I I probably text him a bit much today. Like I should I I can chill out for a little bit. The hormones are [ __ ] neurochemicals are kicking in. Um you will be beaten. Right? There will be somebody that's prepared to be more thoughtful. So, whatever the optimal strategy is with regards to effort if you're not prepared to give it everything, the person that will just gets out ahead and that means that you've lost. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is um a career path that is all so much luck, but I often think of it as like it's all a complete lottery. I think if you're really, really preposterously good-looking you have a lot of lottery tickets. >> Mhm. And if you're a really [ __ ] talented actor, you have a lot of lottery tickets. If you're both, you have a [ __ ] ton of lottery tickets. But it's still a complete lottery because I know plenty people that are wonderful actors and that you don't know who they are. And I and plenty people that are beautiful and good actors and you don't know who they are. It's it's very very challenging career and I'm very very present to to being lucky. >> Yeah. How many people have you seen across your career that you just you can't believe that they never made it. >> Plenty. >> Wow. >> Plenty. I can I have a couple people that come right to my mind uh who who I'm like, why have why is their number not come up yet? That person is gorgeous and has blue eyes and is one of the best actors I know. >> Um you know, they might get work here and there. >> Yeah. >> But they're not a household name. They're not They're not not not a lead on a show. Um You just go watch New York theater. I mean, you'll see some of the best acting and in London, of course, you'll see some of the best acting you'll ever see in your [clears throat] lifetime and some of those people don't can't or have yet to convert that to uh to TV or film. >> Did you know your gut controls your energy, your recovery, how well you absorb everything that you eat, and the one nutrient that keeps it all running properly is fiber? Well, it turns out that 95% of Americans don't get enough of it, which is why I'm such a huge fan of Mementos' Fiber Plus. Most fiber supplements are one-trick pony, one type of fiber solving one part of the problem. Fiber Plus is a three-in-one formula built to tackle digestion, gut barrier strength, and blood sugar stability all at once. I use this every single day. It is kind of hard to get enough fiber just through food alone and best of all Momentous offers a 30-day money-back guarantee. So, you can buy it, try it every single day for 29 days and if you don't love it, they will just give you your money back. Plus, they ship internationally. Right now, you can get up to 35% off your first subscription and that 30-day money-back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to livemomentous.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. How do you think people should reckon with the cuz that's a kind of uncertainty that's almost outside of your control. Right? That you can't make somebody give you a chance at something. You can stack the deck in your favor as much as possible, but can understand why people become bitter or jaded or resentful. >> Absolutely. If you're giving 100% and you're as still not It's It's of course you're going to get jaded. It's It's There's no No one owes you anything in here and and and I have to remind myself that too when I don't get stuff, you know? I still read for things when I'm when I'm when it's competitive and I want it and You know, I had a I had I had a [ __ ] I auditioned for something that had a huge monologue. It was like a two-page monologue. And just like I'm saying cuz I I look at a lot of audition tapes from the other side of the table. If if I'm not You know how many people are going to memorize the [ __ ] out of this monologue and crush it? Why am I even going to waste the time if you're not going to do it? So, for like a week, I worked on memorizing this monologue. I was walking the dog memorizing working on the monologue. I was [ __ ] doing the dishes looking over at the monologue. And I went in there, I played a tape down and I crushed it. I was so proud of it. Didn't even get a call back. >> [laughter] >> Didn't even Didn't even get a hey good job. [ __ ] you, dude. And uh show came out and I saw the guy do it and I went I was so much [ __ ] better than that. And my ego just took a mind. But um but you know, I didn't I didn't get it, but I [ __ ] brought it. I brought 100%. Um that doesn't mean you're going to get everything. Um they didn't they didn't want me, they wanted him. >> Yeah. I wonder whether this is one of the reasons that people have such a This is interesting. I think the number one desired job of young kids is YouTuber and number two is influencer. >> Oh god, is that true? >> Horrendous, yeah. Um, it kids, if you're out there, you you don't want this smoke. I'm telling you. The sheer amount of screen time alone will kill you. Um, but I I wonder whether one of the reasons that people like that and why kids don't necessarily know what they're getting themselves in for. One of the reasons that maybe older people might like the idea of it is that there's kind of no rejection in the world of you can become not popular, but no one's telling you that you don't get to do the thing. >> You mean as a YouTuber influencer? >> Yeah, yeah, if you're creating you just a solopreneur or a small unit and you're the guy that's in front of the camera or whatever, like what's your thing? You can do it as much as you want. You can send an unlimited number of two-page monologues and put them on the internet. And you are the star, even if that wouldn't have been picked up by somebody else and no one it's a permissionless world. >> That's interesting. There's clearly um uh people weighing in on whether it works or not by how many views it's getting after a certain amount of time. >> Yeah, but that's not that's a sort of a soft rejection. >> Correct. Yes, exactly. That's exactly what I'm thinking. >> Yeah. It's so interesting cuz we didn't have that uh growing up as a thing. >> Mhm. >> It wasn't a position. >> Well, think about uh some people on YouTube now are even doing sketch shows. Including you know, full productions. Like Shane Gillis, Gilly and Keeves, his thing before he's now doing tires. Uh, that's that was him just [ __ ] about. Like you don't need there's no there's a much smaller tighter thing. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. And I I think there's a lot of people making a great living being whatever their niche YouTube thing is. I go down the rabbit hole on these people and I I I I've got some people that I just love to watch and I'm not even like I've been going down the rabbit hole on like these RV RVs uh you know >> Like van life people? >> Yeah. Well, the recreational vehicle people that are giving tours of their vans. It's not a life I would ever lead, although I love to go camping in RV. I would never I I don't want to live full-time in RV, but I'm fascinated by these I've They algorithm has been sending me these people giving tours of their RVs. Oh, yeah, [ __ ] I love it. >> What have I been looking at recently? There's a a guy that plays a role-playing 1800s British war game, like a a third-person shooter war game online thing, but he dresses in a full kind of colonial era British soldier outfit in his house while he's doing it. And he's got a monocle on and he's got a huge [ __ ] trumpet. And as he's doing the live streaming, he blows the trumpet. He's like, "COME ON, BOYS. DON'T need to be shy. Let's get them." And he blows this I don't know what his neighbors think the [ __ ] is going on. So, like I got into him. What else have I been getting into? I You know what I'm really into now? What? I They [clears throat] have these [ __ ] videos of like the greatest hits of when detectives get people in the room, like a like to to to to to finally admit that they did it. >> Psychopath finally realizes that he's not the the detective knows what's going on or whatever the story. >> Or like guy who murdered all these people finally comes clean and the detect like and then if someone's cut the video, they've got a narrator like, "And now, Detective Dumbass Harmon will finally confront him with the" And you see their techniques cuz you know, they have the camera up in the ceiling and and all these things where they little by little they move in tighter and tighter. The guy that's one of the techniques I've learned, you know, they they closer and closer. And uh you know, they do good cop, bad cop. They bring in they switch into a woman, like all these techniques. And, you know, if you watched it for hours, it'd be so boring. But, they've edited it down to like the most insane >> [ __ ] red zone. It's like uh strike zone or whatever it's called in American red zone. It's um American football when the football's live on a Saturday, it's only games that are in the final 10 yards. >> This is just cuts between that. It's a highlight reel of the interrogation. This is that for interrogation. But, they they cut like a a specific case down to the last like 30 Well, the story of the progression of I didn't do it to okay, I did it in 30 minutes. >> Yep. >> And it's and it's fascinating. Oh, man, the algorithm knows I like that. [laughter] I I I I do want to do something with that just creatively. I've been talking to a a director about I'm really interested I I love that adolescence that, you know, that show with the one-ers and everything. With with I love that show because I thought it was so brilliant even outside of the incredible craftsmanship of making it as as as as a as a one-er. But, I I really I'm interested in in that that world of the detective work and the performance of of uh getting someone who's done something horrific to to finally admit it. I think that's so interesting. >> I I would be very interested. I can't think I was trying to think in my mind of a TV show where the detective's personal cost of hyper-vigilance has been played out recently. And, I can't quite think of one. The reason that comes to mind I I had a conversation with uh guy called Amir Levine, and he wrote the book Attached. It kind of broke attachment theory into the world. I think it's the best-selling attachment book. And, he's just recently written a new one called Secure, which is an revisitation and evolution on the previous one. One of the studies that he taught me about was they bring uh people into a lab who have had their attachment styles assessed in advance. And there's some anxious people in the room, there's some avoidant people in the room, and some secure people in the room. And halfway through the conversation, maybe one of those ones where they don't know whether it's started or not yet. They might be in the waiting room or whatever. And a computer that's in this office or whatever that they're sat in, computer up the far side just gently starts wafting smoke out of it as if it's there's some sort of computer fire that's about to occur. And he said that the anxious people are the first ones to notice. But the avoidant people are the first ones out the door. >> Hmm. >> And what he was thinking about cuz he spent all of this time talking about what this is what it's like to be an avoidant or a dismissive avoidant or a anxious person or a secure person. And much of what you're talking about unless you're talking about secure attachment is here are the problems. Here are the challenges that you need to face. Here is how to overcome them. He's like, "Well, what about the advantages?" Cuz they have to be advantages cuz this has been selected for, right? Evolutionarily this has been selected for. So you have a degree of hypervigilance in the anxious people that's allowed them to pay attention to something that everybody else might not have noticed. The avoidant people are much quicker to make a decision. You know, the anxious "Oh, should we leave? Is it going to upset someone? I'm not too The avoidant person's like just Wiley Coyote'd out the door. >> Yeah. >> And um what that led him to explain to me was if you were someone that's a an EMT or if you were a a SWAT guy, um people who are avoidantly attached are able to partition off part of their brain. Like, I don't need those emotions right now. I don't need you, rumination. I don't need you, worry. I don't need you, whatever. I got a job to do or I just don't want to engage. And the ability to I just don't want to engage also means that there's a [ __ ] person bleeding on the side of the street and I just need to do my job. I need to be a professional here. >> That's the avoidant person? >> Correct. >> Wow. >> Yes, their ability to partition off little bits. Uh but they wouldn't pay the same level of attention. So, if you were to cast, let's say a a cop show in this manner, you would expect most of the guys that are the kinetic door kickers to be avoidantly attached. And you would expect most of the detectives that are paying an awful lot of attention to be anxiously attached cuz they're going to be Interesting. I noticed that the killer's shoe was untied on one side. I wonder what the That's how he tied it. That's how he choked her. Whatever the [ __ ] Like that. I know What would be fascinating to me would be uh looking at somebody from the role of a detective who has this unbelievable I mean, you've seen this with Sherlock Holmes to a degree. Benedict Cumberbatch's replaying of that kind of hears this unreasonably attention to detail guy in his professional life that can't switch it off in his private life. But I think seeing what you are praised for in public you pay for in private. >> Mhm. >> How could that show up inside of a a crime the detective thing? I think would be really cool. So, you've got something that's so prosocial and lauded bringing baddies to to heal and and and you know, catching the catching the crims. >> Yeah. >> But then also you've got what's the what's the same talent causing on the other side and how is this person paying for it? I think that would be fun. >> That's interesting. I I you know, you see aspects of the detective work in the in the interrogation room in in you know, almost every detective cop show or movie. Um but I I I I'm I'm I'm curious. I mean, this is just a side note. Something I'm I'm curious about to develop for the for for some project in the future is really focusing on all these techniques they they are employing. Sometimes they're they're bad techniques that they shouldn't be doing. They're manipulative and they get false confessions and all that kind of stuff. Um but I I it's I I haven't seen anything that's really focused on their different strategies. I I think it's interesting. >> What are the What are some of the coolest strategies that come to mind? Cuz I remember seeing >> One thing I just watched recently where this guy wasn't even speaking and he was just just silent. And um they these two guys were being aggressive and they were like, "We know we we got we know we know what you did. We got" And they did have a lot of evidence that it was him. They just needed him to say it. And um they they they said, "Let's give the female detective a try." And she came in and she went 180° different. She was like, "Are you cold, sweetheart? Let me get you a Let me get you a uh a blanket." She got him a blanket. She was like, "Are you hungry?" And he kind of nodded and she got him food. And she kind of just sat next to him and and little by little he started opening up to her. And it was just, you know, that's a that's a subtle thing, but uh you know, there and then if and then he eventually um confessed. And uh it was all of all of them strategizing for how to get him to I don't know. I just think that that that's all the stuff those guys are guys and gals are taught is is and then employed is really interesting to me. >> That'd be fascinating. One thing that they all do, without fail, >> is move closer and closer and closer as the person is getting uh closer to confessing. They they they they move their physical position. >> say why? >> Um I think it's just like uh intimacy and and and closeness and um I don't know. That's that's what's been studied to work on people. >> Maybe create a sense of uh inescapableness, too, that as this person is opening up a bit more, they're they're backed into a corner. They're backed into a corner. >> I don't really know fully know the psychology of it. I just >> Well, as you would have a three consultant criminology >> Oh, I I would fully research it. I I I would >> But it would be [ __ ] sick. >> Like cuz now you know all of this stuff, which would just be fun to know. >> Yeah, but you could employ it in your real life. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, negotiate a cheaper espresso over the the counter because you're getting close and try to touch someone on the arm twice. >> Yeah. >> The adult you saw adolescence, right? >> I did. >> So that third episode with the with the psychologist >> Ladies were circling in the >> Yeah. I mean, that was just that's an example where it was done just brilliantly of her being she's she's not a detective. She's a psychologist, I believe. And uh but their dynamic uh and the kid is such an extraordinary. They're both extraordinary actors. But that was an example of a fictional account of why I thought that was so brilliant. Just it's all dialogue, all brilliant acting, just focused on uh peeling away the layers. I'd love to see something like that uh more of something I'm personally interested in something like that. >> [ __ ] What was that thing with Kit Harington in it? Uh the first episode. It was on Netflix. And then they did a French version. And um the whole thing is set inside of one of these. So there's been something like this made. >> Well, tell me cuz I'll watch it tonight. I'm going to find >> Dude, it [ __ ] rules. Kit Harington detective confession series. Let's see if I can get it. A [ __ ] criminal. Called Criminal. Uh it's on Netflix. >> Thank you. >> Um there's two seasons now. And um it's >> One ticket sold. >> Dude, it [ __ ] rules. So the whole thing is set this I don't think they ever leave the floor that this is on. They sometimes go outside for a [ __ ] coffee and then come back in. Um but yeah, that was that was really really cool. I'm um I'm interested in what you think about you the network TV is supposed to be dead thing? >> Yeah. Scrubs >> revival pulls in like 11 million >> really well. >> people within the first 5 days. >> Yeah, they were wrong. >> What do you think that says about where audiences really are? >> I do think they um are still you know, there's there's a lot of metrics now for for um for television both broadcast and streaming. The first is the live viewing. That means you watched it when it was live. Then they're very interested in what the live viewing plus 3 days uh was. How many people uh DVR'd it I either DVR'd it and watched it within 3 days or a stream uh it was on the streaming platform they watched it within 3 days and then the next metric they're most interested in is plus 7 days. How many people streamed it or watched the DVR they did of it uh within 7 days. So, all of those numbers are very important uh to the modern-day streamers and networks. Um the numbers of people watching broadcast are completely uh tiny fraction of what they were back when Scrubs was on television and you know, you the shows like Friends were getting numbers like you can't believe. Um um I mean, I I I I I I don't have the stats in front of me but like the MASH finale uh was like the uh you know, a a large percentage of Earth was watching it, you know? >> Yeah. >> Um that's just gone. In terms of a live thing other than the Super Bowl, you know, and I'm sure certain soccer uh games. >> Yep. >> Um it's just not a thing anymore. >> Olympics opening ceremony. >> Whatever they are. We all know what they are. They're they're usually sports. Um um the final thing. Um but the the numbers still are there on broadcast TV for uh for for certain shows. People do want to not have >> Survivor? >> Survivor's huge. Um you know, there are comedies uh you know, uh uh like Scrubs and Abbott and uh and for example, that uh are are doing really meaningful numbers because people do still watch broadcast. There are plenty of people that that uh they they they skew older. Yep. Um Obviously, a younger demographic's going to stream. They're just going to don't know. They don't know broadcast. They didn't grow up with it. >> I wouldn't be able to watch it. I don't think I have a device in my house that would be able to access live TV. >> Well, you could really put rabbit ears on your TV. >> And go old school. >> Yeah. You can The what the crazy thing about broadcast is it's in the air. It's it's free. >> It's not good. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's the cold open. No, it's uh it's being broadcast to antennas that you could just put an antenna on your TV. >> Still lit. >> And there's plenty of people, believe it or not, that still are are watching uh that you know, the broadcast um uh channels only. They don't have they you know, of course, uh an older audience. Um So, um but all of those pockets of the pie, all of those slices of the pie are are are are meaningful and important. So, there's the broadcast uh slice and then there's the then there's the streaming plus three, plus seven. Those are Those are all people we want to uh to watch the show. A funny interesting that's happened thing An interesting thing that's hap [ __ ] Take three. An interesting thing that's happened is that a giant really meaningful number of people went oh [ __ ] I never watched this show and went back and started the series. >> And and uh that's really cool because although it's going to be a minute before their numbers affect the new show because they're going to have they have eight and a half long They've got eight and a half seasons to watch. >> Yeah, it's It's run. >> But um but that's really cool, too, because plenty of people said to themselves, "Oh, I'm interested in this, but I never watched it, so I should probably start at the beginning." Um so, that's been cool, too, because the one thing that's fun about the revival is if if you're liking it and you're responding to it, like it seems a lot of people are, and you like these characters, and you never watched the show. Well, guess what? There's 8 years of how they became who they are, uh which is which is it's basically a massive prequel, but it wasn't This is the sequel, but you've watched the sequel first, so go back and watch the the prequel. >> Right, which if you love it is so cool. I would love that. Um it's kind of like, you know, House of the Dragon, Game of Thrones. >> Exactly. I was That's exactly what I was thinking. Exactly what I was thinking. >> If you're trying to go from Joey Chestnut to Joey Swoll, the RP Strength app is the best place to start. I've been in the gym for two decades, and it wasn't until this last year that I had some of the best training sessions of my life, and RP was a massive part of that. Actual scientist built this thing around the obsession to beat up that high school bullies and provide the most science-backed effective path to maximizing muscle gain. It tells you your exercises, how many sets, reps, the weights, everything. So, all you have to do is show up and lift. If the RP Strength app could wipe your ass for you, it probably would. And it adjusts automatically every week based on how you're actually progressing. For me, following a proper evidence-based plan has made a massive difference, and if you're serious about your training, it'll do the same for you. Right now, you can follow the exact same training plan that I use and get up to $50 off the RP Hypertrophy app by going to the link in the description below, heading to rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout. >> You know, I watched I watched um a a [ __ ] Is it a knight of a a knight of the kingdoms, the novella about Duncan and Egg, which is the new Game of Thrones thing. >> Oh, I didn't watch it. Was it good? >> No. >> [laughter] >> Such a shame. I'm such a massive Game of Thrones fan. >> I really liked House of the Dragon. >> I I thought that was [ __ ] wonderful. >> But nothing can beat that first season of Game of Thrones. That was just like >> I'm not into that genre at all. At all. >> You don't need to >> And they got me. >> Dude. >> They got everybody. >> I mean, I was at uni No, I wasn't. I wasn't at uni, but I was still in Newcastle when it was happening. And um the volume of extras that they needed with British accents in and around Ireland or able to access Ireland um was so [ __ ] high that basically anyone I knew with a beard was being tapped up. >> Were you Were you >> I wasn't a beardy man at the time, unfortunately. Um but we had a we had a friend who had kind of long hair, looked sort of warlucky. And uh and he went and did was he an extra in one of the scenes for the thing. Cuz it's like, "Hey, we just need people that are in the [ __ ] British Isles to come and do the thing." >> cool because like they don't make TV on that scale that much >> Yeah. >> um these days. And it As someone who loves production and loves uh filmmaking the seeing I mean, it would be it became so fun to watch the behind-the-scenes after the show. >> One of the best parts. >> Because it was like, "Wow, how did you do that?" And I loved that aspect of it, too. Just to watch, you know, big big productions. >> A movie being done once a week. A movie being released once a week. Movie quality stuff. >> they were Remember the What's the one with the the the the big battle uh where he's where Kit Harington surrounded We're talking really talking about a lot of Kit Harington today. But where he's surrounded the Battle of the Bastards, I think it was called or whatever. >> Yeah. Yeah, your guys are nodding. >> That was just one of the most incredibly done episodes of television ever. >> Mhm. >> And and then then then you had the fun, if you're into this stuff, of watching how the [ __ ] did they do that? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh One of my favorite things when that was coming out, I would watch the episode and then there's a channel called Emergency Awesome. And he does uh breakdowns of ev- [ __ ] everything. The guy's like been doing it for quite a while. He's got a huge channel and he would explain exactly what was going on in the episode and it kind of gazumped I found out that, uh, spoiler alert, that Jon Snow was a Targaryen like a full season before it it happened on the show because he'd realized, "Oh, this flashback is with [ __ ] Ned Stark and the this thing and >> helping helping you get all contacts that you wouldn't necessarily >> But he's reading he's like the Sherlock Holmes of watching series and, um, >> Oh, he does it on a lot of shows? >> Oh, he does it for [ __ ] all sorts, yeah. He pretty much every big series that's coming out he seems to be of a fantasy come sci-fi genre. Um, but one of the things that was fun there was he basically and I realized this with Game of Thrones in particular he was using the Chekhov's gun thing as a real hack for what was going to happen in in future episodes. So, there was basically nothing that happened after season three especially season four in Game of Thrones that was superfluous. Nothing. Even though it was big and quite unwieldy there was never a pumpkin reference that was done that wouldn't pay off at some point in future and he would always be able to say, "I know what's going to happen next week. This is what's going to go on because we've just seen this thing happen. You might have noticed that they brought up that she wasn't talking much recently and that's because and I was like, "This guy's >> It's like you watch it after than before. >> I know, but I got and I did kind of ruin the series for myself. I did kind of ruin it, but I got so much joy out of you know, an hour hour and a bit of the episode, then the 20 10-minute 20-minute of the behind the scenes, then the next day I'd go and watch Emergency Awesome and that would be another hour and I was like, "Ah, dude, I'm getting like [ __ ] triple my triple my money here." >> watch trailers if I know I'm going to go see a movie. >> There's a lot that's revealed now. >> Yeah, I I if I'm excited like I just went and saw the the Ryan Gosling movie Project Tam Mary, which I everyone was talking about and was excited and I thought to myself, I'm not even going to watch the trailer cuz I I want to go have a great experience and not know what to expect. I mean, I know it's an astronaut movie. I don't want to know anything else. And that's how I that's how I am with most when I know I'm going to go to the theater, I don't watch the trailer. >> That's fun. I once got um nearly got ejected from Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. Uh so me this is uh February 2022 in Manhattan and I went with Douglas Murray, Jordan Peterson, Michaela Peterson, Tammy Peterson, a couple of their friends and it was when uh COVID masks were still mandatory. >> Mhm. >> And we were all sat in a line. I'd moved to America 2 days before. So I was so I guess crazy as crazy crazy as so big all of the people are crazy some of them are fat, some of them are beautiful. It's crazy. And then we got to uh downtown Manhattan, we go to the show and everyone's supposed to have masks on, but you're allowed to you can move the mask to one side if you're taking a drink and obviously everyone's having refreshments and doing stuff like that. And um maybe somebody had taken there was a chagrin at the fact that Jordan and Douglas who are right coded were the this the theater or something like that with the the manager asked and the staff something. Somebody was scrutinizing the amount of time that it was taking Tammy to pull her mask down to take a sip of water to then put the mask back up and had come over and mentioned uh maybe she'd like taking it off and taking a drink or whatever. Come over and brought that up during the show. And um then I don't think the response had been super cordial or it had been like okay, like whatever you say. And then it happened again and then someone stood at the end of our row and basically was sort of like on mask watch watching them and I could hear I was sat next to Douglas and I could hear Douglas doing breathing exercises trying to keep himself calm and he's going >> [snorts] >> I'm a little anxious my anxiety is creeping up because of the thought of watching a play like that. >> Well I'm watching this while you're watching me anyway the interval the half time interval walked out and I said I can't wait to watch this so sure enough I go through and I see Jordan and Douglas talking to the the manager lady and Douglas the venue manager and I hear Jordan doing so what do you mean by mask exactly and what do you mean by sip exactly and sure enough this lady was really really pushing the limit of this and we I think we we were able to stay I think we stayed until the end but in a disgruntled way and that was I was like I've been in I've been in America for 3 days and this place is like it's just so much more people are so much more prepared to call out the things that they don't want on both sides you know in the UK the manageress would have apologized and the person that had done it would have a part they would have both apologized to each other. >> time everyone was so on edge you know. >> Yeah that was that was an interesting one on real man I'm really happy for you it's cool to see someone go full circle and and really love what they do you're awesome. >> Thank you I I I really love your your show and I love uh when I catch lots of inspiring uh advice from your from your Instagram clips. >> So I really appreciate what you do. >> Thank you I appreciate you man good luck let's keep in touch appreciate it goodbye everyone. 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