The Personal Story That Changed Foster Care Adoption

Hey, welcome back everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show. Today I'm super honored to welcome two guests of people that have tremendous impact on a single issue here in our country. And they're going to be talking about adoption and foster care and the interesting link between Dave Thomas, the founder of Wendy's, and how that journey of his has created homes for so many people. Today we have Danny Lynch on. He's the author of Call Me Dave along with Rita um Elsain, one of my personal heroes. Um she's the president and CEO of the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption. We could not have this conversation if we did not have these partnerships with our partners. And on Friday, it is our 1,600th episode and our partners include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Staffing Boutique, your part-time controller, Third Sector Company, JMT Consulting, and Intuitit QuickBooks. I'm Julia C. Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Um, want to really quickly mention that we were voted number one uh on Million Bod Podcast is the best philanth philanthropic podcast. I said I wasn't going to mention it, but I had had to one last time. Hey, welcome Denny Lynch, author of Call Me Dave. I am delighted to have you on the nonprofit show. >> Well, thank you. I am as well. >> It's going to be a lot of fun. Rita Saon, um, CEO of of this amazing organization, um, has been with us on and off over the years talking about so many different aspects of this work. But Denny, um, talk to us about how you came about writing this book about Dave Thomas. >> Well, I had the honor of traveling with Dave across the country, across North America for 20 years. And during that time there were so many people we met in so many circumstances we were in so many special locations the White House um you know Hollywood New York Stock Exchange all kinds of great places. So with those come stories and >> uh I had 20 years of stories that uh I wanted to con condense into a book and it took an awful lot of time. It took seven years to get this book from the first typewriter into the first produced copy. So, but it's all times that we spent together. Um the creation of the foundation was part of it, the the hiring of Rita was part of it and all of the um the highlights, yes, but also the challenges that Dave faced particularly when he was young and in his formative years and the challenges that he was he faced and and most importantly how did he handle it and what did he do about it, >> right? What was the result? Rita, you have come on and I I've said this to you privately. I I have to believe that Mr. Thomas could never ever have imagined um what the impact of this foundation would have achieved and continue to be achieving, right? I mean, it's just such an an awesome thing. Talk to us a little bit about what this foundation does because I think people might be a bit surprised. Yeah, the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption focuses exclusively on children in foster care who have been freed for adoption and it's been the result of abuse or neglect or abandonment and now they're simply waiting in foster care sometimes for years waiting for a permanent family. And so the foundation through a number of activities both awareness and grant making helps to move those children into permanent homes. And that's that's the brilliant link and and I think the brilliant vision that Dave Thomas had because of his personal connection to the cause and because he understood that there was a gap in the system in 1992 and people weren't talking about foster care adoption and weren't focusing on these children and he wanted us to do that. >> It's amazing. So as a part of this Denny, he didn't just think this was a great idea, right? I mean he had a personal um mission that was created out of a personal story. Can you share that what that was and how that came about as you were working with him? >> Yeah. Yes. Uh Dave was was born to a single mother and that was 1932 >> and at that time uh her family could not take care of Dave so they put up Dave for adoption. He was adopted and moved to Michigan but he did not know he was adopted till he was 12 11 12 13 and it just stopped his world. It it it really it really hit him hard. It it hurt it deeply. He it was scarred. He was his heart was scarred because no one had told him. And that was his biggest, you know, fear then is what else have they not told me? >> And why am I different? And and um it just was it was a loneliness. It was um lack of confidence, lack of understanding. Uh he didn't like his home situation. Uh he didn't like the circumstances that he had. So, and his and his adoptive father was a a laborer. So, they moved town to town. There was he could be in 10 towns and 12 years. So, he was always a new kid in school. Uh always had the wrong books. So it just seemed like, you know, as you're growing up, all of the kind of negatives, the small negatives of life, but they all seem to be stacking up against him. And at a young age, 12 years old, maybe 13, he came to realize that he didn't, as I said, didn't like his situation at home. He wanted to change it. And he decided the only person who could help him change it was him. So he took on that responsibility that he was going to better his conditions, not knowing what it was going to be, but he said, "I'm going to get a job and I'm going to work the hardest that anybody could work and I will be so good at my job that I'll learn everything and people will um reward me and with with promotions and will give me more responsibility." Uh, and that was just where he decided that's what he's going to do. >> Yeah. >> And my oh my, did he ever throw every ounce of energy into accomplishing that goal. There was one thing that that was so positive though in his in his early years. And that was his grandma, Minnie, who he would get to see in the summertimes. And she just um filled him with love and showered him with attention and talked to him. He and he loved that the most. She talked to him. She taught him about quality. She talked to him about don't cut corners, do the things the right way, uh be respectful, be kind. These virtues and and values were were given to him, taught to him, and he embraced them at his own as his own. they become the the core values of Dave Thomas was what he learned from Grandma Minnie and from the bosses that he had. Um he got his first job at 12 years old as a bus boy in the restaurant in Knoxville, Tennessee and they taught him about quality. They taught him about being um uh good good worker and and taking care of your customers. >> I love it. You know, Rita, I've shared this with you before. I I had the opportunity to meet Mr. Thomas um at of all things um at a local uh morning show talk show. Uh he he was just coming on I was going off type of thing. I had a chance to spend about an hour or so with him in the green room and before we were going on about two totally unrelated topics. Um, and I found him to be incredibly calm, >> lovely, he was very kind, and he was at the height of his, you know, career. This was when he was, uh, he'd come on a tour to announce the foundation um, and was talking about it and, um, it was really fascinating. Just like in the picture that we have up, he had a white shirt, short sleeves, a tie. It was hotter than blazes in Phoenix, Arizona at that time. Um, the the limited opportunities that you had to work with him, how did that personality manifest itself with coming up with this really tough tough topic to deal with? >> I love Yeah, thank you. And I love that you have that that story because it's the one thing um that I you know, you spent an hour with him. I spent a just a little bit less than that with him. When when I met him, when I first started this position, he was he was fairly ill and Denny and I went to see him at his house and I I hadn't met him yet. He was again, he only had a few months to live. I was terrified to talk to him because he was this international celebrity icon. Um but but we spent a few minutes and and I learned a little bit about his drive and that's what it was because I said, "What do you want me to tell the board? we're going to be meeting next week. And he said, "Just tell them to get this job done." And that's that's what's behind this. It always astounds me. You know, as much as I know his story when I hear Denny talking again about it, he internalized exactly he Dave internalized exactly what our children feel, especially our teenagers in foster care. They move frequently. They feel abandoned. They feel um uh you know, they've been abused. They're wondering what their future's going to hold. and and somehow Dave Thomas intuitively knew that and drove us to do a better job for those older youth in particular who were in foster care waiting to be adopted. And it's not because he was in foster care that he experienced it, but he experienced it at another level. And just I think it's that it was that passion to make life better for children. He had to do it for himself. He wanted us to do it for the children. >> Wow. It's such a remarkable thing. And um I'm thinking about the you know the word um courage because he really had to be courageous to talk about this and to put his emphasis um behind a topic that a nobody was talking about and it would be perceived kind of as like a a negative thing to talk about, right? I mean how did that play out? I mean, Denny, did you ever talk about that? Like, this might not be a popular topic. Not not in that sense, but we talked about it quite a bit because um people would do media would do rags to rich's story about Dave Thomas in his rise in Wendy's and >> he would put in there he allowed it be in there that he was adopted at birth but he didn't want to talk about it that he would not bring it up and the reason he he never told me why but it seemed pretty much that He he felt that he wasn't worthy that that that was just not the right time and he felt that people might u just feel less about him maybe but he he didn't he and he didn't know how to talk about it is another thing because his experiences were not good. >> Yeah. But but he was giving a manager's meeting with with Wendy's employees and a general manager came up to him afterwards and said, "I know that you're adopted. Why didn't you talk about it?" And Dave was a little bit stunned and he just looked at him and and the and the manager continued. He said, "I'm adopted and I was hoping that you would give me some inspiration. There's you could help other people." And Dave paused for a second and then he said, "I just might do that." And at that moment, he might as well said, "I'm all in." Because I knew that that's what he wanted was going to want to do. And I that was and then when there was a second point um President George HW Bush uh invited Dave to come to the White House in November because the White House was doing a promotional campaign called Adoption Works for Everyone. And uh President Bush wanted Dade to reach out to corporate America and get CEOs to add adoption benefits to the employee benefits package. >> And um they didn't expect Dave to to put just think of all the passion and effort he put into building Wendy's. He put the same amount of passion into building the foundation. >> It's riveting. I mean, Rita, um, think about the the aspect of his story and how you've had to tell that story and how you've had to move it. Um, do you find that his story is something that people know or is that part of how you have built the foundation or is that just kind of an aside? Because it's to me it's just so powerful. Um, and the kids that he's serving probably never saw his commercials. Well, for sure they never saw his commercials or like like I, you know, recognize the name and all that. How is that arc kind of followed? >> Yeah, it's it's an important part of the work that we do. Julia, I mean, his name is our name, but you can't count on that meaning something to to generations. You're right. Who didn't grow up with him, who didn't grow up with his commercials, who didn't know him. he passed away in in 2002. It's been it's been some time. >> So, that's the important part of our work and it's why I'm so pleased. I know Denny has been working on this book for years, but when he finally said, "I'm going to do it," and it's not easy to to publish a book these days. when he finally said, "I'm going to do it and proceeds are going to benefit the foundation." To us, it was as important as that was, it's it's another um arrow in our quiver to help continue making sure that the legacy that is Dave Thomas, that the story that is Dave Thomas and its connection to the work that we do is profound and it's unique and it's something that needs to carry forward and not get lost in just a a name that nobody really knows what who that refers to. So it is absolutely part of what we do every day here is is keeping the legacy of Dave Thomas alive and its connection to this cause. >> Yeah. Now Denny, you've had the opportunity with your time along with Dave Thomas to work also, I would imagine, with some of his family members, right? because it seems to me like this moved beyond just that one individual that it really was creating um a a support group um throughout. Is is that fair to say that you had a lot of people along that journey including some of his own family members? >> Oh, very much so. I mean Dave was first of all Dave was a type of person that you liked being with. Think of uh your favorite grandfather or an uncle. He made you smile. Or when you were with him, you just felt better. It just man, you left and you and he he'd say something to you. Maybe he'd he'd tease you a little bit. Um, but he paid attention to you and he'd look you in the eyes and when he talked to you, you would believe that you were the most important person >> in Dave's life in that moment >> and people wanted to follow him. So, and Dave was very very um astute. If he didn't know how to do certain things, he'd find somebody that did and then he would support that person. um he he would constantly um build them up because he wanted to to them to be successful. In fact, he relished in other people's success. And if an employee rose from a crew person to a general manager, Dave was just just patting him on the back and just being u in his support and the and it didn't make the difference whether it was the chief financial officer or it was the the male the mail room clerk who rose to be head of security for the headquarters building. That was that was a career choice in day one. you to follow your dreams. >> Wow. >> Can I add something to that, Julia, real quick that that the family piece is really important to us. We're a national nonprofit public charity, but to others looking outside, we might feel like a a family foundation, and part of that is intentional. Two of his daughters still sit on our board of of directors, our board of trustees, including the Wendy Thomas. Um, and so that's that important link, too, of keeping the the family is is is is very much engaged. They're also franchises and so they role model for the system this continuing need to keep the foundation part of the work in the restaurants and the cause part of what they do. >> I love that you said that because that kind of segus into my next question Rita and that is like how did the topic of adoption and and maybe it's even still a question for now. How has this been received in the marketplace? I mean, Wendy's is a giant across the planet in so many ways and the brand is so strong. Um, how has the marketplace and those franchise holders looked at this topic and how have they supported this topic? >> Yeah, and Denny can answer that too, but they have been they have jumped in. But but part of my charge when I started was the franchises were kind of feeling, you know, with Dave's loss and they were fundraising in the restaurants, but what was that money actually doing? And our mission is to dramatically increase the adoptions of children out of North America's foster care systems. And behind that word dramatic is something measurable. But we really couldn't measure exactly our impact. And in fact, you know, lots of people tell the story and Denny tells it best. Dave would ask him, "How many kids did we get adopted today?" and the foundation couldn't respond to that. We were doing good, but we couldn't measure it. So, I think part of my charge was how do we both continue to to deepen the engagement of of the Wendy's system and do something actionable, move from awareness to action. And that was the impetus behind the creation of the Wendy's Wonderful Kids program where we fund um uh professionals across the United States and Canada that help move these children to adoption through an evidence-based model. But but it's a great question. We're constantly working to make sure that that that our our one of our incredible donors that is the franchise system as they raise funds in the restaurants are engaged, understand where those dollars are going and see results, >> right? So Denny, does is that part of is there push back on this or is it just that everybody is is rowing in that direction? I mean, have you seen it grow? Have you seen it waning? What does that look like? >> Well, Julie, you were correct earlier statement that in 1992 adoption wasn't in the, you know, top 25 charitable organizations. Um, >> and rightfully the franchises would be, um, you want us to raise money and send it to Columbus and and what, [laughter] >> but the passion that Dave threw in this and and there were there was a number of officers that just embraced it and we said, "Look, it he's serious And it's and it it means something to him. And this is a a crit critical element for businesses. It was easy for us to do it because Dave was adopted. It was easy for us to do it because everybody could see his passion for it, his commitment to it. And if Dave wants it, we're going. We're all in and we're behind him and we're going to make this thing work. In fact, I I said many times we started the foundation 1992. None of us knew what we were doing. >> Sure. How could you? >> I mean, the interesting part of this is that you had a topic that wasn't nationally discussed. You had a format that wasn't really nationally done. You had so many innovative things you had to put together. Um, Rita, I got to believe it was quite a steep learning curve. I know you're an expert in in the field of, you know, child issues and and family and youth services, but how did this all come about? Like, where did you learn and and even not just you, but your board? >> Yeah. No, it was a steep learning curve and things are changing. It's a complex conversation. the child welfare system, the dynamics of abuse and neglect, the dynamics of foster care adoption, how you separate that from the other kinds of adoption, infant adoption, international adoption. And then behind that is that quest for justice for children. That's what it's all about. That every child deserves a safe, loving, and permanent home, no matter who they are, no matter where they grow, no matter what their their their journey has been. So, it it was it was a it was a really steep learning curve for me because I had to do two things. I had to really learn about the Wendy's system and all the dynamics behind a franchiseed system and an internationally known business. And I had always been in the nonprofit world. I was not a corporate girl. Um I had to learn about you know what is the existing situation in this country in 2001, 2002, 2003. Where were the gaps? And that's when we identified that gap of 20,000 children aging out of the foster care system year over year over year and sometimes to no good outcomes, not because they're bad kids, because they don't have the safety net of family. And so that's where we decided we could step in and that was the impetus behind creating this child focused recruitment model that turned into Wendy's Wonderful Kids. And we called it Wendy's Wonderful Kids because our franchisees stepped in and said, "All right, we're going to trust you for a minute and we're going to do some more fundraising and we're going to see if we can dedicate those dollars back to our communities where these children are waiting." And so we recognize the program by calling it Wendy's Wonderful Kids as the brand. And so it was it was an incredible learning. It's still a learning curve. Look, things are changing today. It's still a learning curve, but that those first 10 years were were I think really stretched me to my professional um really helped me identify what goals I wanted to do in this job. >> Yeah, I've got to believe that, Denny. I mean, again, we kind of I started this conversation with this comment, but I can't imagine that any of you could have ever seen the trajectory of this concept and the work and the impact. It it has to even astound you, I would imagine. >> Oh, absolutely. But we Well, once we hired Rita, uh we knew that she was a doer and not a talker. >> And we knew that if we gave her the problem, she would find the solutions. And and Dave, she was right. They would constantly say because we're in a hamburger business, we're we can count everything. We know how many hamburgers were sold. And that was just he didn't want first of all he didn't want to create a foundation and add to the bureaucracy that already exists in the federal government. So he said if this what you're doing we're not doing it. We our our job is to get is to get kids adopted. That's the job. That's it. And and that was simple. And and a lot of the the the thieves and the culture of the foundation in the early years was very very simple. How are we going to get kids adopted? Foster care is supposed to be temporary. And Dave would constantly say that these kids are losing their lives. They're losing their childhood. And we we have to give them their childhood. So, we knew that Wendy's because of our marketing abilities could raise awareness of the the need for adoption. But if if we bring everybody to the doors of the child welfare agency or the adoption agencies and they don't have staff to take care of them and they don't have time to to do the home studies and all of that, then what we're doing is disappointing people. So we we had to kind of back off the the effort that Wendy's could bring to the table until there was there was um um there was a programs that could help once once the prospective parents come to the adoption agency. Yeah, it's fascinating to to think about um trying to do good and do well and then have the the reality of stumbling blocks like it it's you can you can have a great idea and a passion but you still have to have you know the mechanization and the um structure to do that good work right >> I want to end with um this question to you Denny what should other business leaders take from this this journey What what should or what are some of the things that somebody that's watching or listening or reading about this episode that's in business that could say, "Yeah, I can step up and and and work on a on a concept might not be a popular concept." >> Well, I think the first thing is to listen to the gospel that says, not literally that says when you when you achieve success, you have a responsibility to give back. And all corporations and big business and small business should should follow that philosophy. Then find something that that means something to you because if it does, you will you will you will put more energy into it, more devotion to it, and you'll bring your family, you'll bring your friends, you'll bring everybody you know into it. If you just sign on to be a sponsor, then that's almost collateral. you you really pick one or pick two that you really want to devote your time and energy to and to make a difference. I mean, the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption is making a difference in in communities all across America >> and that's incredible and and I I love that you said that because you're right. It's uh so much of what we do it gets us through the tough days are our passions. And so what an incredible opportunity it's been for the nonprofit show to have both Denny Lynch and Rita Elsa and on to talk about the new book Call Me Dave. It's available today as we speak right now on Amazon. A great great book. I was so privileged to be sent an advanced copy and um it's a really great story in te talking about how we view ourselves, how we navigate conflict or problems. Um sometimes the problems of our own making, sometimes problems that are not of our own making and and that fine line between pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps and and moving forward. It's just a a a really incredible story told by somebody who's was there on the ground walking through the the process. Uh again, Denny Lynch, thank you so much and thank you for writing um this important piece of work. It's not an easy thing to do. I can have I have total respect for [laughter] you. >> Well, thank you. >> Yeah, a lot of fun. Rita Saon, always great to see you. Thank you for your work and your dedication. you make all of us in the nonprofit sector better and uh we we need to have more people like Rita and her team. Um if you want to know what a really well organization looks like, go to the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption. They do very innovative things. They do very brave things and the proof is in the pudding. They are a major voice across the globe on this topic and so it's just such an honor to have both of you with us today. Um, what a really special day for us on the nonprofit show. Thank you. >> Appreciate it. Thank you. Always always the best part of my day to be talking to you. >> I [laughter] don't know about that, but I I'll take it, Rita. I'll take it. Hey, we have these amazing conversations in part because we have amazing partners. Um, and they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Staffing Boutique, Your Part-Time Controller, Third Sector Company, JMT Consulting, and Intuit QuickBooks. These are the folks that really make us um give us that ability to have these tremendous, tremendous conversations on the nonprofit show. As we end each and every episode, we leave with this message and it goes like this. To stay well so you can do well.