The Mythology of Philly Black Mafia Legend "Nudie" Mims with Expert Sean Patrick Griffin

Original Gangsters News with Scott Bernstein. >> Welcome to the Original Gangsters News Network and Podcast. Today we're going to go out to Philadelphia and talk about the Philadelphia Black Mafia, aka Black Brothers Incorporated. And you know, us at the OG, we always go right to the source. And when you're talking about black brothers or the Philadelphia Black Mafia, the godfather of researching that group and chronicling that group is Sean Patrick Griffin. And he has been a a great friend of the show and his book, Black Brothers, Inc. in my opinion, top five true crime books of the last half century. Thank you, Sean, for for joining us to chime in. We got some it's not really breaking news, but it's news related to Robert Nudy Mims, uh, one of the founders of the the Philadelphia Black Mafia. We're going to talk about Nudy. We're going to talk about his son, a new clothing line. We're going to talk about Joey Merino, the Philadelphia um mafia figure, and we'll kind of get into some of the Dub Bro furniture stuff because of that's a lot of Nudy's legacy. Sean, thanks for joining me, buddy. Thanks for having me back. Thanks for the kind words, too, Scott. That was very nice. >> Oh, well, I mean, it's it's not I'm just not I'm not just blowing smoke here. Like, that book changed my life. like in the sense of the way I research and the way I report and we could do a whole episode on on that and the legacy of your book, but for me it really sparked something in me uh to go looking in my neck of the woods >> for, you know, the kind of counterparts to the Philadelphia Black Mafia in Detroit and you're you're researching in that book and your storytelling in that book was so motivating that it it uh it's really prompted a lot of my dare I say not to blow smoke up my own took this but uh some groundbreaking uh urban crime research uh from me and my uh my platforms when we're talking about YBI or black mafia family um best friends Chambers brothers. >> Mhm. >> These are all like legendary Detroit groups that uh kind of rivaled Philadelphia Black Mafia and even the Black Mafia family, you know, which which is iconic now beyond just any individual city. You know, I've interviewed Big Meech and Meech talks about studying former groups and studying Philly Black Mafia and the guys in Detroit and guys in Chicago and New York and like using the best of all those groups to create [ __ ] >> Well, I may have told you that when Black Brothers first came out in 2005 and I was doing all the media stuff, um, I was on a at the time it was XM radio. I don't know if they had merged it yet, but regardless, I was on a a popular urban uh talk show. I was supposed to be on for 20 minutes, you know, normal five after the hour to 25 after the hour. And there were so many callers that they held me back for the next half full half hour. And at the top of the next hour, they said, "Hey, can you do another hour?" It was all organic. And what was happening was sort of what you just described, which was, yeah, I was writing about Philly, but people were calling in and, you know, from Detroit or from Chicago and saying, "Hey, my neighborhood had a major coxin. My neighborhood had a Sam Christian." And so that like there was an entire awakening to all this. >> And really, this is going to be part of our conversation. It's a half century plus >> and there are still I mean Philadelphia Black Mafia isn't in existence anymore. Black Brothers isn't is in existence anymore. But the Junior Black Mafia although not fully structured like it once was is still a thing >> in the 2020s. And the the JBM was an offshoot of Black Brothers Inc. specifically through Nudy Mims. Right. So, it it's and that kind of brings us to where we are with some of the stuff I um that brought this back up to the surface for me to reach out to you. So, just to give you a uh to give everyone a quick update on on why we're doing this episode. And we got a we got a really great response when Sean came on early ear early this year. It was the first couple weeks of this year. And Lonnie Dawson had come out of prison after four decades. and we got I think we're we're like over 40,000 uh views on that and people really enjoyed it. So hopefully we can kind of get the same response here. So uh last week Joey Merino who is the uh longtime Philadelphia mafia I'm going to call him mafia figure. He's no longer the boss. He hasn't been boss for a couple years. He's now the podf father. He he launched he he quit the mafia and launched a podcast which has had some ramifications that I don't know if he expected or not but it alienated him from a lot of his former allies and friends in the mafia >> right >> and he does content online and uh this is a quick aside but I notice you know, timing and context. And sometimes I feel like Joey Merino because he's lost a lot of his support in the Italian mafia, he signals in his social media posts in ways like, "I'm bring this is what happened a couple days ago or last week. I'm bringing on Nudy Mims's son and we're going to promote Nudy Mims's son's new business and kind of a under current to that is Joey telling the world look at the type of people that I'm linked up with and if you think that I'm a mark now because I'm no longer a mafia don think twice cuz I got guys like JBM watching my back, >> right? >> And he was about to go to New York, uh, where he's not, uh, he's got more problems in New York than he does in Philly right now. He was like 48 hours away from going to New York. And he posts a I don't know if it was a full podcast or a a short I I don't know exactly what it was part of, but I saw the the basics. And the basics were that Nudy Mim's son has started a clothing line called Unbreakable. Uh t-shirts, hats, hoodies. Um some of the Unbreakable gear has images of the original Philadelphia Black Mafia. Some of it are just kind of cool designs. I know that the the line of clothing that he's really pushing right now is called the chaos line. Um it's poetic poetic, right? Um in the fact that his dad caused a lot of chaos. >> Uh and it, you know, it looked really cool. I mean, in terms of if you're into fashion, if you're into, you know, urban fashion. And I I I did a little write up on it and I posted a link and it made me want to reach out to Sean and and talk about the legacy of his dad. >> Mhm. >> So So Sean, when when if someone just came up to you and, you know, just laid it out and said, "Tell us about Nudy Mims." Give give us the the uh the bullet points again, no pun intended or pun intended, uh on on Nudy Mims. He was uh You know, there was a lot of colorful, influential figures in in uh the Philadelphia black black mafia history, but Nudy Mims really stood out, didn't he? >> Yeah. I never really think about in order of priority with regard to the leadership, but obviously I would always put Sam Christian first. But after Sam Christian, I would say Nudy Mims, which if people know the Black Mafia history might sound odd because he of course gets locked up fairly early uh in the history, but as I'll walk you through and I'll walk walk your listeners through, that's even misleading because in and out of the prison for decades, he was incredibly influential. So the basics are he's born in 1940. Uh he gets his first arrest in 1954 at the age of 14 for murder. Uh along with three other uh guys, kids I guess. Um he then gets arrested again for an assault. He causes a riot in I whatever 1960 or 61 or something like that um at the juvenile detention center in the municipal court building after he was sentenced. So he that's early on and then he uh winds up so that's you know early 60s. Of course Philly's Black Mafia forms in the mid to late60s. He's one of the 14 founding Black Mafia members. I I don't think I have to get into what the Black Mafia was for your crowd. But anyway, um early on I would say that he's among the 14. He's probably like top two or three. And importantly he was like Sam Christian in the sense that he was tall. 6'3 or 6'4 and they didn't lift weights back then but he was just naturally built just like Sam Christian and like Sam Christian he was known for his brains as much as was Braun both those guys were respected and feared it was a great combination of course for anyone in the underworld um his rap sheet even by the time he was in his early 20s was unbelievable very active it was all a assaults robberies assaults on police uh you know all crimes of violence which of course if you're an organized crime group based on extortion. That's what you want. And that's pretty much the entire black mafia leadership back then. >> It becomes a calling card. >> Yeah. Well, and the other thing too is, as you know better than most, Scott, they oftenimes extort other gangsters and other criminals. Well, the only way you can do that, of course, is if they fear you. So, um, he was also like Sam Christian and a lot of the black leaders, black mafia leaders, uh, members of the Nation of Islam. And importantly, Mudy, like Sam Christian, was also in the fruit of Islam, the paramilitary guards for the Nation of Islam. So, he was a major major force in this part of Philly's history. Well, as you said, he of course gets arrested in 1971 for the infamous Drows Furniture Store case. We've probably covered this before, but the highlight for the people who've never heard it. >> Yeah. I don't know if I don't know. I'm sure we've touched on it, but let's kind of dig a little deeper into the Jubro Furniture robbery and murder. And please, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's considered in the Philadelphia area, if not the most infamous crime of of that period. It it's it's uh everybody from that area knows about it. It has a mythology about it that is, you know, very macob and uh very uh blood stained. I mean, this was this was You can go over it and I'll try to color it up if I can. I mean, this was the definition of brutality. Well, here wait I'll I'll tell your audience the details in a second, but since you just brought up what how it's viewed in Philadelphia in obviously the year 2000, everyone was doing their top 100 lists, top 100 songs, top whatever, it was on the list of the most infamous crimes in Philly's history in the 20th century. >> Yeah. >> And here's and here's what Philadelphia media people said about this. One columnist uh said it was one of the most cold-blooded and inhuman acts in the long criminal history of this town. Another said it was a showcase of sav savagery. Another one said it was an outburst of incomprehensible cruelty by a band of criminals whose motivation can't be explained by the lure of a day's receipts. And it wasn't. That's what's key. So for your audience, just you know what happened. Uh eight black mafia guys go and visit the brows furniture store on January 4th, 1971. The fact that it's January 4th is important because if you're going to rob a store, that's the worst time to do this. They've just cleared out everything from Christmas, so they're not going to have a lot of money in the till. And that's really not what they were doing anyway. That this was an pretty much an extortion ploy. Well, they go in the store, they announce a holdup, >> they round up all the employees. Black Mafia, for people who don't know, was notorious for not gagging, but binding people together. they would use electrical cords, duct tape, anything like that. Well, in this particular case, they hired all all the employees together, tied them up, and then stacked them on top of each other like cords of wood. And what no one knew was that they brought gasoline with them. And so, uh, they set they poured gasoline, they poured fires, they poured gasoline throughout the furniture store. It was a two-level furniture store. And they set fires all throughout the store. And then they said before they left they set the pile of human beings >> on fire. >> And what had happened shortly before they left uh a janitor was returning from a lunch break. Well, they assumed it was police. So when the freight elevator opened up, they just shot and killed him. Uh and he So anyway, he was ironically the only death. And the only reason the employees survived was because it was January 4th. All the windows were closed. And the fire marshall said if any of the windows had been cracked a little bit, the oxygen needed would have set that thing up like they intended it to do. So the employees caught a break. They obviously were traumatized and injured, but the only death was the person who was shot, the janitor. >> The janitor's name was Shane Albert. Um there was a double homicide that followed this uh of a witness and his wife. >> Yes. >> Uh Lewis Gubby, >> right? And yet Grubby, his wife. Right. So, I guess there were three murders total uh for the for the whole situation, one murder at the actual time of the incident. And really, when you think about it, the one the fact that you came away with only one homicide in January of 71 is a miracle. >> Well, here that Can I tell the story about the groupies? >> Yeah, please. >> It's it's I'll doing everything with this story is hard. Doing it brief. First of all, Mims ultimately he he gets arrested. Well, first of all, he flees to Chicago where becomes a bodyguard to Elijah Muhammad. His Muslim name was well was Am Jabar his whole life. He died in 2012. Um he finally gets caught. He's brought back. He's convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the murders and he's sentenced to concurrent five to 10 years for the arson. Well, he uh N is just he's just such a menace. He he winds up getting convicted ultimately. He's brought back to Philly. He's being held for his appeal. He's he's got an appeal in 1976. Well, I I detail all this in Black Brothers because the story is crazy. His lawyer, first of all, he had two lawyers. One happens supposedly happens to see the prosecutor at a sporting event and asks him about Nudy Mims's appeal. And the prosecutor's like, "Wait, what? I he has no shot at this. He thought it was a ludicrous prep proposition. He also thought it was weird that he's being accosted at this sporting event. Well, he now realizes why. A short time after that, Nudy Mims has a meeting with another one of his lawyers in prison. Well, the whole the whole understanding was that there was one key witness. He was the only one who identified Nudy Mims and that was Lewis Groovy. and and and the one of the lawyers was a law partner with one of the appallet judges. And so the worry was, hey, is there something of foot here where they know if they get rid of Lewis Gruby, the appeal will go? And the word on the street was that he was going to win his appeal. Well, hours after his lawyer met with Nudy Mims, four black mafia guys, I shouldn't say four black mafia guys, a black mafia hit team. One of them was almost certainly not a black mafia person I was with. Um visited Lewis Guby in in a a really nice normal area of the city where the black mafia guys would never ever be be seen before. Uh, in fact, I had to ask directions from an oil delivery person and they executed Lewis and Yeta Ruby. And and for the for your audience who doesn't know the story, they weren't discovered until a day or two later when their neighbors noticed their lights were on and when the homicide detectives got there. They were the Groovies had lived in fear all throughout this entire ode. From the time Lewis Gubby testified against Nudy Mims, he was being held in hotels. They would never meet at his house. They would never meet at police stations. They would meet in all these clandestine locations. That's how fearful they were of the black mafia. Even if Nudy Mims was incarcerated, so they had a deal. They would never open the door unless there was a window uh that overlooked the door. And no matter if their son was visiting, it wouldn't matter. Even if they knew their son was coming, they would look out the window first. Well, the moment the detectives show up, the door wasn't even the door was wasn't broken into or anything. They let the person in. And the leading theory is that Philly's black mafia had corrupted a cop who uh assisted him in getting in into the residence. And they were each found just executed. There was no struggle. There was nothing stolen. It was just a straightup execution. And then ironically, right after that, the appeal loses. So all this was for and I I actually think the murders may have backfired by the way. There was so much notoriety and Jim Nicholson, a notorious legendary reporter for the Philadelphia Inquirer, he tied he connected the dots right away and ran a huge story about the significance of those murders. And so it's believed that that actually hurt whatever plans were to uh win their appeal. >> And and Grubby wasn't just an ordinary citizen. He had a history in military intelligence. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, this is a guy that served his country and >> well, he also he's a tragic he's a tragic story because his wife didn't want him testifying >> and he said it he's proud American and it was a civic duty. >> So, that's kind of like our jump off point with Nudy Mims. And uh as Sean said, he'd he'd been locked up since kind of the early era of Philadelphia Black Mafia, but his reputation and his influence transcended prison walls pretty much until the end of his life because they had to actually move him out of state prison on the East Coast because he had so much power. and they did like a a state prison transfer where he ends up in Minnesota, right? >> And that's where he died in 2012. >> Well, for your audience who doesn't know this, so he gets he winds up getting convicted and sentenced for the Debrow furniture store case. Well, while he was out on appeal, he got arrested. They had a search warrant and they found uh an Israeli Uzi submachine gun. They found a Thompson machine gun, uh cocaine, drug equipment. So, he he winds up serving time for that, too. for those local cases in Philly. He's serving time in Holmesburg prison. For your audience who doesn't know, Holmesburg was notoriously corrupt. And an entire block of that prison was Nation of Islam run by all the black mafia leaders. And they were in and out so often that they not only ran the block, they ran all the drugs and prostitution in Holmesburg and still control their territories out on the street. Well, when Nudy Mims ultimately gets convicted of all this stuff and all the appeals are done. Oh, by the way, I should also point out during this time where Nudy Mims is in and out of Philadelphia, there's a great picture. I don't take credit for this. Somebody posted it on Instagram, uh, and I wrote about it on my website, right in there, the early 80s. It's him, Shamsadin Ali, who you and I have talked about before. He winds he he served time for murder, got out after a successful appeal, round wound up running the black mafia extortion racket for years, became very po powerful Phil in Philadelphia politics, wound up getting convicted uh in 2005 in the big corruption scandal in city hall where 57 people were uh convicted. He was one of them. Anyway, there's a picture of Shamson Ali, Nudy Mims, and Muhammad Ali when this is after Muhammad Ali of course had left boxing and whatever and he's just because his the leader of his entourage was Jeremiah Serbaz back from the black mafia heyday. >> So anyway, Nudy Mims is a menace inside and out of prison in Philly and then he gets transferred finally from Holmesburg which is typically for more local state crimes to the big house Greaterford prison. Well, that was as infamous as Philly was. In fact, I I gave a speech years ago at the whatever that it's the National Sheriff's Association that I forget the actual name. And pe people were coming up to me after my talk. Hey, is Greater as crazy as we hear it is? Like it's just notorious throughout the correction system all throughout the country. >> And that is that is that in Jersey? >> No, no, it's in Pennsylvania. >> Okay. It's in Pennsylvania. Okay. >> Yeah. And that's that's where you just mentioned he got traded in 1985. the Pennsylvania State Police, 650 state troopers raided the prison because he had so corrupted it and they wound up uh arresting him and a bunch of other people. But here's what's interesting about that and I quote them in Black Brothers. Several corrections officials did not deny the corruption. Their argument was that he, Nudy Mims, is more powerful than we're will ever be. And there's a one veteran uh corrections officer, she gave that great quote where she said that uh I there was an incident where they had more than 100 men who for whatever reason refused to go back in their cells and she went and got Nudy Mims and he just leaned out of his cell, waved his hand and they all went back in the cell. And she said that's the kind of power he had in the institution. And so he ran drugs and prostitution there. You'll also remember Scott in Black Brothers. I detailed the fact that he and the Italian guys in Philly, the Maranos. Yeah. It was Nudy Mims in Greaterford, Lonnie Dawson in Holmesburg. Yeah. >> They were dealing cocaine, heroin, P2P, meth. >> They had Afghan heroin dealers meeting them in prison. This was a major operation being run out of prisons. So, the fact that they were no longer on the street was almost irrelevant in that regard. So, yeah, they they did wind up trading them to Minnesota. Now, wait, there's a footnote that you don't know because I didn't write about it. I get contacted, this is well, Nudy Mims died in 2012, so I would guess late 2000s, maybe. >> Uh, I get contact from somebody in the FBI letting me know that they were getting pressure to bring Nudy Mims back to Pennsylvania and they had to fight it because he was so connected to people in politics that big people were trying to get him back. Well, you know, Philadelphia is like I I love reporting and studying about that city even though it's not my hometown. Uh I have fam I have family there. Um that you know it's been there since uh I think they they left Detroit and settled in Philadelphia like in the late 40s early 50s. that side of my mom's family um in the in in part of the Jewish uh some of the Jewish suburbs and uh so you know spent time there as a kid and I've just fallen in love with it not just as a city because it's an amazing city. take away the the criminal the criminal history research. Uh it's just one of my all-time favorite places, but when you study it, it's so unique in in regards to how the criminal ecosystem comes together and operates. And there's this mutual >> fascination between the African-American criminals and the Italian criminals >> that I don't think really exists in other cities or hasn't existed in the other cities. That's not to say that uh black gangsters haven't worked with Italian gangsters, you know, over the years. That's happened a lot. But there's more of a mutual respect and admiration uh in Philly that lasts to right now like I was mentioned with Joy Merino and and the JBM guys, but it started with the original Yeah. >> Black Brothers, Inc. And like you said, Raymond Marterano, who was Angelo Bruno's narcotics lieutenant and his son Georgie Cowboy, uh followed in his footsteps and it wasn't uh nobody was looking down in down at each other in those >> right >> business interactions like sometimes in in the other scenarios where where there have been uh uh joining of forces between black gangsters and Italian gangsters in other cities, there's kind of like a attitude from the Italian gangsters that you're lucky that we're giving you the time of day, >> right? >> And in Philadelphia, they both kind of just kind of looked what the other one was doing and was like, "Okay, I see you. We're we're vibing with how we do business and how we're how we're making money." And you know, >> even beyond that, at least straight through the 80s, they socialized together, >> right? That's what I mean. >> This wasn't just business. They were hanging out. They they all had nightclubs, you know, bars, restaurants, and they would they would, you know, patronize each other's businesses. I mean, it was it was really, >> I guess, you know, unique. I don't know enough about other cities to comment. I just know that it for our sake, it really was noteworthy. >> It's definitely spec to the the scope and scale of it. And you know the again I I'm repeating myself but the mutual admiration that existed there and the um the lack of judgment frankly uh because >> well speaking of lack of judgment your audience should know these idiots would attend each other's trials to support them right >> and of course organized crime detectives in Philly thought this was great because they could literally just stay at the because you had to sign in to get into the courtroom. Yeah. And so they were just taking pictures and go, "No, that's who you are. That's who it was." So stupid. >> So Joey Merino's dad, Chucky Salvatore Marino, Chucky Merino, who was the under boss of the Philly Mafia in the 80s. He taught Joey about the benefits, the positives, the net positives of working with the African-American criminals in the area and that you shouldn't look at them as rivals. You shouldn't look at them as anything that you look down on like in some of these other cities. uh you should look at them as equals and you should come together and join forces and and you know power in numbers. >> Yeah. And you know, and some of those Philadelphia Black Mafia members were from parts of South Philly, mostly North and West Philly, but um I know that the guy that that Joey Molino's closest to uh of the current crop of old school Philadelphia black mobsters is a guy named Tracy Mason who was one of Nudy Mims's protege. days. And I want to get into this. Uh, and Tracy Mason right now, uh, helps run Joy Molino Security. Uh, when when Joey needs people watching his back and he goes and does public appearances, you you'll see Tracy Mason and Tracy and him go back to when they were kids, like teenagers, guys in their early 20s in the, uh, early 80s, uh, running wild in in Atlantic City. Um, talk a little bit about Nudy Mims birthing this new era of of African-American organized crime in in um in Philadelphia after the majority of the OG Philly mafia Philly black mafia members go to prison or are killed by internal disputes come in and around the crack cocaine era 84 85 86 six. You have this group of guys that had been >> I I guess they there was actual like group of them, right, called Little Brothers. It was Big Brothers and Little Brothers. >> Yeah, it was it wasn't that many of them, but they were Yeah, Little Brothers. Uh they were they were runners essentially. They were drug runners. Um and they of course, this is the Philly's Black Mafia, I always argue ended as a functioning syndicate in 1984 with a there was their second huge RICO case against them. And it took all took the second wave of leadership out. And by then, of course, your audience probably knows this. By the time you get to the mid to the mid1 1980s, organized crime for everybody is going to change because the feds have all these tools, all these resources, they only utilized, right? >> Yeah. They finally figured out how to use wiretapping, RICO, all that stuff. So, you know, the days of of big-time organized crime, taking taking entire sections of cities, that was over. And um anyway, so yeah, you get to 1985 where the junior black mafia forms. I've always said the Junior Black Mafia name suggests more of a lineage than really exists because they were just a very very violent drug gang. Um >> they weren't as in they weren't innovative or uh the level of entrepreneurship uh in terms of getting involved >> you didn't have financial crimes. You didn't have politics. You didn't have any of that stuff. You didn't have prostitution. You didn't have was barebones raw criminality. >> Yeah. Yeah. and and and and and crazy flamboyance. I never told you this because I don't think we ever talked about JBM, but part of the reason they got uh investigated by law enforcement was one of the JBM guys got arrested and this is back in the 80s where the the LL Cool J with the big gold chains and they of course had their famous JBM rings. I I have a picture of it in Black Brothers and it was a huge diamond ring that said JBM. Well, if you get arrested, of course, they take your your shoelaces and your belt and they take any belongings and inventory them for you to get done when you when you leave. So, they're just inventorying this guy's ring. Well, they know that JBM is not his initials. And the guy the the corporal who's checked him says, "What's what's JBM?" And the JBMmer gets offended that the the cop doesn't know who he is and startsing him this and whatever and that and goes, "Oh, really? That's who they are?" And he takes notes and gives them to the organized crime unit. That's partly how the intelligence was was created for the case against the JVM. So anyway, that I they they essentially were only around from 85 to 92 when they took a huge tit a huge hit and they also had plenty of interacing warfare. Um and Nun Mims was sort of um a counselor. He was a mentor but you know obviously he was in prison. >> They were going to visit him. They were like taking trips. >> Yeah. Oh yeah. Listen, I didn't say this earlier. He was a part of a major black mafia meeting in Holsburg prison in 76 and then they would do meetings in Greaterford. In fact, you're now seeing on Instagram they're posting all sorts of photos from back then >> about all of the gatherings in Greaterford with Nudy. I mean the legacy is so longlasting because you're you're throwing out these these um these pockets of time. >> Yeah. And when when you're when you're doing research, you're looking for, you know, the meat and potatoes of of the of the situation that you're researching. And even though there are, like I'm, you know, the way I would phrase it, a remnants of those guys that exist today that still, you know, they'll throw out JBM as a as a kind of a brand to to boast about, but there's no structure. There's no real organization left. But the fact that the the the names Nudy Mims, JBM, Black Brothers, Inc., the fact that we're over 50 years removed from when this started and it still holds very, very valuable currency. >> Listen, what did that say? >> Listen, well, I could tell you so much about this. First of all, your audience should know there are people who still won't talk about this, >> right? >> They they still live in so much fear of that crowd and that era, they'd rather not revisit it. Uh that's number one. Number two, with regard to how much currency, I was criticized years ago uh for selling Black Mafia t-shirts. Well, I was not selling Black Mafia t-shirts. I had no idea what they were talking about. And it turns out that somebody had taken the cover of Black Brothers Inc. and put them on black t-shirts. >> You were actually a victim. They were violating your copyright. >> And so it it's and of course I have media interest all the time in movie interest. You know, unfortunately nothing's ever been developed. There's currently one hopefully, knock on wood. Um, but you know, yeah, the the fact that it's dated sort of, you know, we talked recent and last time we spoke, it's not as recent as the thing we're talking about now with Duty Mims's kid, but um when Ricardo Mckendendrick got arrested, you know, that was 30 years after all this stuff and it was then the large, you know, when he got arrested, even though he got out of prison for all the RICO stuff for the black mafia heyday, well, he was still back in drugs and it was the largest cocaine seizure in in history in Philly. So, anyway, he got arrested, of course, with his son, >> right? >> And that's what you're seeing. They may not be formal black mafia or formal junior black mafia guys, but they know the tricks of the trade and they've got reputations. >> Yeah. I want to say uh just to be clear because I don't want to disparage anyone um unnecessarily or unfairly. Nudie Mims's son, >> I have no idea what his background is. And I have and I'm not I'm not saying I want to be very clear. I'm not saying that Nudy Mims's son is a member of JBM or a member of any criminal organization. >> Yeah. >> Uh he's being >> he's being a businessman. And >> listen, I I was contacted not long ago by uh Dwood Bay and uh he had something like this going on. Uh and same thing with him. I have no evidence that he's doing anything, you know, on the street. He's doing entrepreneurial stuff like this. >> Yeah. I was just I was just mentioning the fact that that I literally researched this for your audience. You don't know. I did this research in the late 90s, >> right? >> And here we are in 2026 and we're still talking about it. It is never ending. It's unbelievable. And as we wrap up, I want to just touch on the fact that this could all be coming, more of this could be coming to the surface in the coming weeks and months because kind of the elephant in the room in in the Philly state court right now is a murder case that's supposed to go to trial in I I believe November. It's the murder of a a Italian mob guy from the '9s named Gino Maronei. And the murder took place in April of 1999. Uh they indicted a South Philadelphia drug dealer quasi mob associate named Richard Lighty who it seems has has uh zipped up and has kept you know stood strong. Now, the background with Lighty with the Maronei murder, there's some dovetailing with Junior Black Mafia uh activity of the late 90s and the Maronei murder case that's about to go to trial with Lighty as right now the sole defendant. the entire docket for that case is sealed. Um, I've reported that at the centerpiece of what happened to Maronei or what I should say at the centerpiece of what uh the domino effect that led to the Maronei murder most likely comes from a beef between Joey Marino the JBM guys, Maronei and Lighty. And I'll just give the I'll give a quick synopsis and then um Sean just if you can just give, you know, give your opinion or whatever. Um so Merino and those Philadelphia Italian mob guys have, you know, they've have they have long-standing ties with with the JBM. Um, Marino by the late 90s had had won a war for control of South Philly. Him and his crew of guys that were all in their 30s at that point. They were all doing business with JBM allegedly. Um, and there was a JBM crew that was robbing drug dealers allegedly with the green light from Merino and the Italians and they were sharing parts of the profits with Marino's crew. They were told to stay out of South Philly. Um, in early 99, Richard Lighty, who's the defendant in the in the Maronei murder, his house is invaded by JBM. And I should also say that the belief is that Lighty was paying protection to Merino, so he shouldn't have been targeted if you know the >> rules of the streets are followed, >> right? >> Uh and the JBM guy shouldn't have been in South Philly. But they come to South Philly, they come to a guy's house that is protected by the Italians and they rob it and they beat him up and they tie him up and they put a pistol in his mouth. Um, the belief, this doesn't mean it's true, but the belief from Lighty was that Maronei tipped off JBM to the fact that he had money in the in the house. The next day, within 24 hours of the Lighty home invasion, there's an incident at Joey Merino's house where JBM guys are on his porch trying to push their way into the house. Hours before that, there had been some shootings to some drug houses that were related to JBM. believed to be retaliation for the Lighty home invasion. Tracy Mason, I know there's a lot of moving parts here. I apologize if this is confusing uh for the audience. Tracy Mason, who's Joey's best friend in the JBM, is transitioning out of prison from that 92 case and coming home after, I think, seven years. And like a week after the incident on Joey's porch, which by the way, the police were called. I mean, this this this was an urban myth or I mean this was there was a police report on it. Um Tracy Mason comes home and solves the issue between the JBM and Joey because Joey and JBM have always been very copacetic and I mean the timing of it is very fortuitous for Joey that that Tracy is coming out of prison like >> immediately after this dust up. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then fast forward three months, Maronei is is killed and now that case is going to trial. So, uh I I just I guess I'm interested on your opinion on it and I would just say keep your eyes and ears open. I would expect testimony at this trial, which will begin before the end of 2026, will include testimony about JBM. >> Do you know if anyone has turned? No, that's what So, the the indictment came down about a year ago. Everything's sealed, which is abnormal. >> Yeah. >> And Lighty, who everybody looked at as this kind of crash test dummy. I mean, Lighty was not known as a highlevel gangster or a drug dealer. Um he he was a kind of a nobody that paid protection for people to to watch his back. I'm I'm tell you this right now. There's no way, shape or form of any situation where Richard Lighty on his own accord by his own valition without anybody giving him a green light goes and kills Gino Maronei. He's not alone because right now he's the he's the only defendant. >> And there's a lot of people kind of wondering where is this going. It's been very quiet. There hasn't been a lot of news coverage of it since the indictment came down in I think September of >> about a year ago. Exactly a year ago or late I think it was August of 25. >> Well, the reason I asked is because for people who follow the Philly stuff, it's unbelievable how rare you see informants, >> right? You know, if I I follow this stuff fairly closely around the country and there are informants all the time and people cooperating or whatever. Part of the reason when Lonnie Dawson was released from prison, I didn't find it compelling to talk to him, assuming he would speak, is because none of them admit to anything, >> right? >> But for the wire taps uh and all the surveillance and the evidence or whatever, you wouldn't know from them. There were ne none of them ever uh rolled. Um, and so you wind up situations like this where uh I'm curious to see what evidence they have without having that >> maybe I mean and Richard Lighty from what we can you know from what the what we see just the you know the eye test here and not knowing all things being even and not knowing maybe some of the minations behind the scenes. Richard Lighty is standing strong and is going to take this case on all by himself and isn't pointing fingers. I don't know what the, you know, the overall strategy from, and this is a state case, which also kind of makes you wonder like are the feds looming here? >> Mhm. >> Like are because I know the feds are connected into this. >> Yeah. and they made a decision to give this part of this situation to the to the state's attorney. >> Mhm. >> But could there be a a bigger federal case coming behind this that includes people that I believe empowered Lighty to go do that? Because Lighty I just wasn't he wasn't somebody that could just go kill a mobster whether or not he had beef with that guy or not. And I know they did have, you know, Maronei and Lighty were feuding. They both were accusing each other of of uh sending people into the other one's house and robbing you and robbing them. Maronei was a longtime rival of Joey Molenos's. Marone's dads tried to kill Marino's dad back in the 60s, so it was a family beating. Um, and some of Marone's family, his dad and his uncle, who were old-time mob soldiers under Nikki Scaro were advising him to ignore Joey Molino when Marino took power in the 90s. So, there was a a lot of moving parts to this situation, but JBM is in the background because of that uh home invasion in January of of 99 and the subsequent issue at Marino's house. And this was a group of JBMs that he wasn't as close with as he was to the guys that had been locked up. >> Well, you know, an interesting aspect of this is that because things splintered for both the black mafia, the JBM, and the Bruno Scaro crowd, or Merino crowd, the organized crime law enforcement apparatus in Philly is totally different now than it was years ago. So, when you get a case like this that's dated, all that institutional knowledge is gone. Yeah. especially if it's being run by the state as opposed to the feds. At least they've got great records. Um, that's that's going to be an impediment to anything going back. >> But I mean, this is something that has been, you know, and coming from the government, they've been quiet as a church mouse on this. Uh, despite locking up that, you know, locking up that whole file. You can't get into that file. You can't see any evidence to this case right now. and opening arguments and jury selection are are slated for like in the coming weeks. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, we'll see. And if and if if JBM does get brought up uh in the testimony, we'll definitely bring it back on um if you're if you're down to to discuss it. Um this was great. I you gave it tremendous insight. Nudy Mims is somebody who has been dead for 14 years now, but he's obviously top of mind to his son and to other people that that um live the life that are, you know, guys that to to a certain faction of people, guys like Nudy Mims are, you know, they're legends. They're street >> legends. You you saw the online reaction to when Lonnie Dawson was released from prison. >> Yeah. >> It would have been bigger if it was Nudy Mims, >> right? And Merino in the video last week with Nudy Mims's son kept on saying he said it at least three times. Your dad was a legend. Your dad was a legend. >> So that's coming from a that one icon talking about another icon in South Philly. >> Uh and and what do you think Nudy? What do you think? My last question. What do you think Nudy Mims would think of Joey Marolino's uh podcasting? Do you think that the the old school black gangsters if they were free would look to get in on the social media? >> Yes. I was going to I I thought you were going to ask a different question. I thought you were going to say they might be upset with it. I think they would love it. And they they were entrepreneurs. I think he'd be all about that. >> Well, just look in look to New York. uh one of their African-American street legends, Prince Miller, came home from the Supreme Team. Prince came home about two years ago and uh maybe a year and a half ago, either way, year ago, Prince Miller came home and he jumped on social media. And it doesn't get any bigger >> in in New York in Queens, you know, it was Prince and P >> and and P a Supreme ain't ever getting out, but Prince got out after 35 and he's on social media. So >> crazy. >> And Big Me, you know, the last thing I'll say, Big Meech and those Black Mafia family guys, they they take it one step further. They're not doing podcasts. They're doing live streams. If you want, you could watch Big Meech from the time he wakes up in the morning to the time he goes to bed. He's got a camera on him 24/7 right now. That's that's what that's that's the the 2020s Big Meech. And in some ways, it it fits so perfectly. If you would have told me and Meech, you know, he was doing 35 years, got a sentence reduction and came out, you know, a couple years ago, and if you would have said to me that this is what he was going to do, I'd be like, "Yes, makes perfect sense." Demetrius doesn't just want a podcast to talk about things for an hour once a week. He wants you to see him 247 living his life. And you know, God bless him. God bless. That's great. >> Uh well, thank you so much, Sean. Let everyone know where they can uh get your stuff. I know that uh you you're teaching right now at the Citadel >> and um but please uh let people know where they can get your books. >> Sure. Uh well, you can follow any of the Black Mafia stuff that happens. I I will post it on my site, which is sean patrickffin.com. Sean is s an Patrick G- R I Fin. I'm on Tw I'm back on Twitter. My Twitter account was hacked in early August. I'm back on Twitter at SPG Author and uh there's I'm always made fun of for having a very boring Twitter timeline. It's just news and analysis. There's no >> Me too. >> Yeah. No, me too. And I I'm I've been told by managers and agents and my wife and my kids about having to be more engaging on social media. And >> I do it more as a marker. I I actually use it so I can reference myself. So, when was that? You know, that's that's the easiest way for me to do it. >> Well, thank you so much. Uh, enjoy your week. We can't say enough about the knowledge and insight that you bring and how much we appreciate you bringing to the OG. And again, just how much your writing that book inspired a young Jewish uh uh resourceful, ambitious writer in Detroit who didn't who didn't know who you were. And I saw it uh on the shelf of my uh my local Barnes & Noble or Borders and I grabbed it and I I devoured it. And I remember it was a weekend. I got it like on a Friday and I was done with it by Sunday. Scott, that was my vision when I was writing it. >> All right. Thanks. Thanks to thanks to Benny for producing uh Original Gangsters News Network and Podcast. Please like, share, and subscribe. We've uh done a you know, a bit of analysis of our analytics and we have 62 roughly 62,000 subs in about three and a half years of posting content. And there's a sizable chunk of people that are consuming our content but not liking, sharing, or subscribing. So, please do that. Like, share, and subscribe. Spread the word. We're here giving you giving you your true crime fix 247, 365. For Benny, my producer, and for Sean, I'm Scott Bernstein, Original Gangsters News Network and Podcast. Uncovering the underworld, one city, one region, one country, one story at a time.