The Mother On Education by Nandini Sengupta & Alo Pal

So good afternoon uh and welcome to this session on uh Shri Orurabindu and the mother on education. So uh I will start with asking Nandini uh uh a question about uh she has in fact done research on Shriar Rubindu's education and uh so Nandini can you start the session by uh telling us what emerged from your research as to what was Sherbindo's vision of India and education. >> Thank you. Um so I want to start with a rather interesting comment that was made by a colleague of Shirindu. His name was uh AB Clark. He was the principal of the Bodha College before Shawindu took over. So uh somebody asked him and you know when Shorbindu first came to Bodha uh somebody asked AB Clark that what do you think of Orurubindu Kosh? And AB Clark says um if Jon of Ark saw heard heavenly voices I am quite certain Orurabindo Goss sees heavenly visions. So very early on uh this kind of puts in context the kind of uh teaching that Shirindu brought uh with him and started imparting and it was radically different. I think it is still very radically different in many ways and although he had a not very long stint he just he taught in Bodha for about his entire stint in Bodha was about 13 years and then he was principal of the Bengal uh national college which later became Jadapur University for just a year. But the way he looked at education was so different, so radical uh for that day and age, even for to this day and age. And this becomes particularly relevant given all the agitations, students agitations that we have seen in recent times that his voice now becomes even more relevant uh even more important to understand and to adopt. uh so he had he himself uh chose uh particular strains of uh you know lines in education for his own choice when he went to England and then he had a stint in Boda followed by his stint in uh his principal uh ship in national college in Bengal. So can you tell us um what you have learned from his choice of subjects and how it prepared him for his tasks in the future? U let's start with his education in England first right so you know in England he was in Manchester he was under the guardianship of a couple and uh then later on he joined a school called St. false. It was a it was a fairly um upper class uh school and Sherbindo uh actually cracked a joke when he was asked whether uh he studied uh science and maths and all that. He said, "Oh no, no, no, no. My my we were far too posh for that sort of thing." Uh so he that was of course a joke but basically what what he did during his stint with uh the couple that they was he was staying with as well as in St. Paul says he focused on a couple of subjects and this is very important. I'm glad you asked this because this has become another very important aspect of uh his version or his theory of education. So when he was in St. Paul's he focused mostly on Latin and uh French uh and English and of course then along with that he is uh read history and and geography um and it is interesting that he then went on to win a scholarship at King's College Cambridge uh for reading the classics um which he he aceded by the way but the but the interesting thing about this is when he was in Bodha um many of his students uh used to say that although professor Kosh uh taught us English ostensively he didn't teach us English because he would use the subject as a kind of window to talk about many many different things you know he would use English literature to talk about philosophy to talk about spirituality to talk about nationalism, to talk about politics and geopolitics, to talk about even grammar, but most importantly he used English to talk about clarity of thought and word. And this is very important because one of his students his name is Rajaram Patkar. Now he has he has documented this particular memory that uh professor gosh would always insist he he would make us write essays. All right and these essays were essentially debates and he would insist in those essays that every line should logically follow from the line before and connect to the line that comes after. And that is true for every paragraph as well. And as students are want to do, he you know Patkar was grumbling about it. Why are you making us do this? So he actually approached uh Sherbindo. And mind you, it was not very easy for these boys, these young boys to approach Sherbindo. Not because Sherbindu had any heirs. He was the most shy and unassuming person. But they felt intimidated by his scholarship a little bit. So they felt like if I ask a question maybe he will realize that I'm a fool. So but you know this boy mustered up courage and went and asked him and Shindu said you see there is a reason why I'm asking you to do this because unless you have clarity of thought you cannot have clarity of words and unless you have clarity of words there will be no clarity of action. You see this is at the core of his philosophy and I feel that a lot of our children today modern generation you know uh they desperately need this that you have to know even when they are protesting or agitating you should know what are you protesting about. There should be clarity of thought in your head that will translate into clarity of words where you will know that if your agitation is for a particular thing bringing in extraneous influencers or influences into the picture does not serve your cause and clarity of action. It is very easy to say you know bring down this is the revolution shara whatever it is it's very romantic you know and it's very it feels very good but it is a dopamine hit at the end of the day what are you achieving you see clarity of thought clarity of words clarity of action this is what I think this is what I say this is what I must do this this is very important >> uh after that of course if you want to add anything from his bored stint you can go ahead but then there there was a call for nationalism there was the need to liberate India from the yoke of the British there were all sorts of uh colonialisms whether it was coloniality of the mind whether it was uh perceiving uh India as a piece of earth or as a living being. So how did he bring about these notions via his uh his vision for education and the youth of India? So you know um it this Sherbindo uh was one of the first uh leaders of the freedom movement who thought of India not as a piece of land but as a sacred living deity and uh and again and again his students his students like Chandwani K Munchi who became a very famous historian later on um and so on our Dalal and of course the gentleman we just mentioned Rajar Ram Patkar they have mentioned this again and again when they came up to him and said what is India what should we feel because remember at that time uh the British administration taught uh Indians to think of themselves as Bengali people, Marata people, uh Tamil people and so on and not as a unified we are Indians. We are Bhartya. Uh but what Sherbindu did was and this Kane Munchi has um documented in his writing that he actually he took Kane Munchi to the map of India and said behold the mother and this is her. She is not dead. She is not inert. She is a living deity and you must everything in your life you must consecrate to her. and um this very core of nationalism it is so important because when he comes to to Kolkata from Bodha and he's he is involved in the uh you know this uh partition of Bengal that the agitation against the partition of Bengal that was happening 1905 1906 um at that point he was one of the first people to say there are three things that we need uh that we as Indians need and Congress needs to inunciate and the first is saraj we need complete independence. The second is suadeshi which means we need to boycott the flood of um goods from England, cheap goods from England which were putting our artisans out of work. And the third is national education. Why is national education important? because it is national education is the way to help national character grow. Right? So it is very important and at this point if you will give me uh the opportunity I just want to read out uh uh a speech that Sharbindu gave just two lines. >> No no please take your time. >> Uh he gave this speech on the last day uh of his principal ship at the Bengal National College. Uh and then of of course he plunged uh heart and soul into the uh political movement and this will tell you what he meant. So he says that uh I want to see what what do you want uh from us? The children the students asked him. No, >> it's okay. So he says what do you want from us? The students are asking him professor gosh what do you want from us? So he says if you will study study for her sake so study for the sake of India train yourselves body and mind and soul for her service. If you earn your living earn that you may live one minute for her sake. I wish to see some of you becoming rich. Rich not for yourselves but that you may enrich the mother with your riches. I wish to see some of you become great. great not for the sake of vanity but so that you may satisfy what is great for her and make India great. So I just wanted to read out this because you see how critical this feeling of nationalism is to his idea of education that for a student everything that the student does must be consecrated at the feet of mother India. You know that was very important. So this is India emerging out of uh of course colonial loot extremely depleted of its resources and uh yet he had vision for its youth to be as sincere as selfless as possible. Uh what is the reference to the bhavani mandonder that he makes in his writing? So um so uh just for the sake of the audience, Bhavani Mandr was this very beautiful idea that Sherbindo and his younger brother Bin Kosh uh thought of that there would be this um temple to mother India. Um and this temple would be a place where young uh students, boys and girls would train body and soul in brahachara or acetism. So aesthetic training of body and soul and these young men and w women would be the future of India. So it would be like something like a gurukul. uh it would be a temple to mother India and associated with that would be like a gurugul where these young men and young women would be trained to control their body you know physically and also trained in their mind to work for the freedom of India and later on uh when Barin Gosh started his Muradi pukur group uh in Maniktala where uh a bunch of revolution he He collected a bunch of very young men who were all uh inspired by revolutionary thoughts and that was a takeoff from this uh concept of the bhavani mandr. So incidentally today we are celebrating actually uh re revolutionary day or those who were martyred uh 14th August every year. So uh youngsters like Kudam Bos, Profulo Chaki all of them actually uh we should remind ourselves were inspired by Shriorbindo and they were part of the Anushilan Samiti which is the first organized revolutionary movement of these youngsters and what is I think most important to understand when it comes to Sherbindo is that he appealed to people with his writing and his mind and it is it is uh it is the love he instilled in these young boys to go to the gallows smiling with wand mataram on his on their lips is all because of the of of uh I was going to say the gentleman Shriraindu's pen. So >> I just want to say one thing uh you know in the context of what you just said that um it's again very interesting that um one of his students uh Chandwani I think approached him one day and said oh macau was in in you know there was a great buzz about Macaulay at that time. So this boy walks up to Shirrobindu and says, "Professor Goh um I'm trying I'm reading Macaulay. I'm trying to write like him and all that. What should I do?" You know, his English is different. And and what Shirindo said again is a tenate of his concept of education. He says, "Do not be Macau's slave. Be your own master." So uh what what you're talking about what Sherbindo's idea of national education was and that is something that he has inunciated later on as well is allowing the child to think for themselves not be brainwashed by people who you may think are smarter than you maybe speak better than you may be you know cooler than you whatever it is you think for yourself you know don't be somebody's slave, be your own master. So that is at the core of his teaching as well. >> So that is also the responsibility of the education system to ultimately >> Absolutely. So again, so he says that um this is one of the things that he has talked about in his um idea of education. He first of all he says education cannot be taught and this is again revolutionary. It is revolutionary for all times. He says that >> he can quote the first principle that shocks everybody. Every other teacher who goes through the conventional BED BA system, the first principle of teaching is that nothing can be taught. I have I have surprised so many college and university professors with this you know with all their degrees and all their experience to tell that actually nothing can be taught. They come like what do you mean? [laughter] So you can elaborate. So, so, so he says that um that education cannot be knowledge cannot be taught and it is not the job of the teacher to stand in a pulpit and you know give lectures and impart knowledge. That is not the job of the teacher. The job of the teacher is to be a guide to bring out what is inside the child. bring it out so that the child flowers in the way he or she is supposed to flower not in the preconceived way that the teacher may want society may want the parents may want or the you know whatever not that way the way that child wants to flower and uh one of the things that he says is when the ch children are very small and this is something I've seen in the ashram school u it is important not to get them into formal uh educational setups. It's much better to have an informal setup where the child's two things are encouraged curios curiosity imagination. So those are the two most important things and he mentions this quite a few times that that will allow the child to then when he gets into that formal setup to see for himself and choose for himself what he wants to do which which subjects he finds more interesting which window he wants to open. Um so so that is that is one of the aspects and the other aspects is he always says that it is a child learns much by observing and drawing conclusions from it. This is what he was say talking about when he said clarity of thought, clarity of words, clarity of actions. So he says if you allow the child to really observe say a flower and the child observes the flower very closely sees the way its petals are sees every minute about that flower and then goes on to deduct from what his observations are. That is the first step towards scientific discovery. And that way the mind is not shackled by what somebody else may have written or may have deduced or may have thought. You are observing you're drawing logical conclusion from it. So it's completely radical. >> So uh can I move on to so shindo's vision of uh there are two three things >> then then complete that point. Let's complete shindo's vision. Yeah. Okay. So two two more two more things that I just wanted to say. Uh it's very interesting that uh when Sherbindo would um like I said that he would teach one subject and use it as a window to go into uh much uh more than what he what that subject was entailing. And one of the things that he taught when he was uh um principal at Boda uh was Jane Austin's Pride and Prejudice. And uh one of his students uh his name was Ar Dalal later on said that you know it's very interesting that uh we used to go and complain to uh professor gosh that you know you talk about so many different things you are not uh preparing us to answer exams uh and uh you know we will all fail. the factors that we none of them failed and much later what he learned in class uh encouraged him to become a novelist himself. So so the so what Shirinda was saying is that it's the teacher's job to start with the child's immediate environment. So self uh uh family, society uh an immediate environment and then go progressively outwards. So then you take it to the country and you take it to the world and and so on. So the the vision starts with you and then proceeds outwards. Um and that is what he was doing um in his class as well. And uh he says that uh that uh is also true when you are teaching a subject. For example, if you start with say Sanskrit or Latin, you start with that and you use that as a window to get into literature and then you can use that to get into English literature, Bengali literature and then you use that to get into history and you use that to get you know so it's like a so he says that it is much better to really understand one subject very well and then go on whereas today school education as you know the children are given a a little bit of everything. No, history, geography, physics, chemistry, biology, maths, blah blah. So many little things. >> My geography book which I taught to my children had things about the Appalachian and the Rocky Mountains. So I brought it down to the Vindyas and then Ilgrees because it has to be relatable, you know. It has to be like we are in the tropics. We we don't know so much about the temper temperate or the arctic zones, you know. So that was one of the things in fact one of the tenets I followed when I taught geography. Bring it down to Pondicher. uh which is the day that the sun is overhead. It's always around my birthday around 28th April. So I I make them stand in the middle of the uh during COVID I remember I said go out in the sun right now and see if you have a shadow >> you know. So that that's what that's what makes geography so much more interesting when you relate it to your immediate surrounding. Yeah. >> And the last thing that he said and this is again relevant to the student agitation. He says that there are the there are three gonas uh in human character and it is the teacher's job to encourage the satwig gona and it is the teacher's job to control the rajas gona but it is also the teacher's job to completely trample the tamas and and that I think a lot of uh our educationists would should remember you know because if you don't out the tamas then the national character that he's talking about uh will not be built the way it should be built. So uh perfect uh link to what I wanted to say. I as I was uh preparing this uh particular uh presentation I went back to to this book by the mother on education and uh she is so direct and she doesn't waste any time when she tells you what to do or what not to do. So there's somebody who says but mother when I get so tired my mind gets so tired you know doing all this mental work then I when where is my time for you and she says that is not mental tiredness that is mental tamas just a oneline answer from the mother you know she's very nonsense I love the way she talks so uh what happened with in 1943 2nd of December is actually the manifestation in terms of a proper school of Shirbindo's vision of education So um this is the notebook given by the school to our students and I always love this uh first prayer that shindu has given us because he doesn't talk of academics. Uh it's the best part. So for him the children should be helped to grow into straightforward frank upright and honorable human beings ready to develop into divine nature. So that is uh the first uh prayer we have on our notebooks and if you go inside is the school prayer. Now I will read the English translation of the oh it's there in English here also. So it says make of us the hero warriors we aspire to become. May we fight successfully the great battle of the future that is to be born against the past that seeks to endure so that the new things may manifest and we be ready to receive them. So this is actually our school prayer and this is written by the mother. Now uh there are uh I will list out a few points and observations after which I will come to the first sentence of this magnificent book that I think all parents, teachers and students should read. The mother on education and I will come to its opening line but before that there are just a few observations that I want to make. So young inquisitive minds are a boon to society. Nobody denies that. Young minds that question existing practices are also a boon to society considering that many norms and systems are indeed outdated or have lost their core value. You know, so if you go to the human cycle also from symbolism to typo to conventional, we have a lost a lot of the essence of what uh what we done by wrote today. Um the mother in her school prayer too wants us to make of us hero warriors to prepare us for the battle of the future against the past that seeks to endure. And we know how rigid these uh these foundations are within which the youngsters have to jostle to find their own space. But very often there is a major slip in aspiration. We want to break the past but we don't know where we want to go. Inner growth and character building. When we forget the ideal towards which we have to strive for, but we question and even seek to destroy the present. This lapse leads us to the slippery slope of being uncultured, rude, irreverent, and outright barbaric in our minds, hearts, and behavior justified in the name of challenging existing norms and tenets of society, including and especially tenets of order and decency and knowledge systems and a culture that have thus far kept us together. So today's society when we look at the uh trends in academia the one of the trends in postmodernism is to question is to declare that the current state is unacceptable and then to conclude that the current state is thus because of what has been and what is and therefore reject what is in order to bring in the new utopia that they always dream of. But in rejecting what is they also reject what is good that has survived over the over time. So this trend can be explained when we see the destructive foder of postmodern ideas creep into the minds of our young via academia. So this is where schools have to take responsibility for what they try to infuse the revolution they try to infuse in their students. Our education is failing our young. When truth of the highest order that requires immense personal effort and discipline to pursue and acquire is reduced to versions of truth established by minds and beings that have no aspiration for higher seeking, you get a society normalizing anarchy, univilized, irresponsible, highly self-centered Philistine behavior. The need of the hour therefore is to return to the first lines of the book on education. And what is the what are the first lines that the mother talks about? An aimless life is always a miserable life. This is not too difficult to understand. But it is the second line that is very important for all of us young and old to remember. Every one of you should have an aim. But do not forget that on the quality of your aim will depend the quality of your life. This is a big big important catch. So revolt or you will revolutionize as you will but your aim should be high and the quality of life you wish for will depend on the aim you have set yourself out to be. So by all means break the shackles of the past that seek to endure. As she has said us told us in our prayer that is what we are. We are not students in her school. We are warriors. I love this. Uh but we have to establish the future that seeks to be born. So we should not forget that aim. Uh but you have to keep your aim high. So this is the opening that I wanted to to just bring you to this to what this book has and then this book goes on to instruct all of us as to what should be our job. So I'll carry on with uh You want me to connect that with? >> Yeah, if you can please do. >> So, uh, one of the things that [clears throat] Shindu talks about also is, uh, the concept of the ego um, in the teacher. Um, and, um, again there is a very nice sweet um, example. Uh, one of his students Chanwani got into the Eelfinston College. um he got a scholarship to go to Elfinson College in uh uh in Bombay and Shbindo uh actually wanted him to do something else. But when Chandwani came and said this is the college uh that I have decided to go to, Shbindu gave him a glowing recommendation letter. And so his student says that it was so interesting to see that this man whom everybody venerated including Sahaj himself you know the the patron the Maharaj of Bodha uh had absolutely zero ego. So he would give his point of view. It was up to the student to accept it or reject it. And if the student rejected it, he would be very happy to say that is fine. So how many of us as teachers or students or parents uh can give up that ego you know and this brings us to that to the agitation that a lot of the niche agitation was centered around how many young children young people killed themselves uh because of this uh the paper leakage and everything that was a as a parent it it is It's deeply saddening and deeply problematic. But as a parent, I also see that a huge part of the problem is the expectations that parents put on the children. And when we were growing up, I remember I wanted to do, you know, I I joined college. I wanted to do English literature. And my family members said, "Oh, no, no, no, no. Medicine, engineering, CA or suicide? What are you going to do studying English literature? You'll want to get married. That's the end of your So, you know, so if you have the the immediate sort of ecosystem around you, your parents, your teachers, the people around you who have expectations of the possibility that you represent, if they are telling you that listen, if you don't crack IIT now, your life is over. or once you're in IIT if you don't get whatever it is X grades your life is over can you imagine the the pressure that it puts on the children so what kind of parents are we if we come to the parenting job with this amount of ego >> yeah so the mother again she's very very clear about what she wants the parent to be so that actually begins before conception so uh it's it's a it's a huge job so you know I I in fact I make my students feel happy by telling them, you know, you guys have it very easy with the mother. Everything is about the parent being a yogi and the teacher being a yogi. You're all children, you know, we have to mold you and we have to be so perfect, you know, and that's what it is because she expects the parent to be a living collaborative and and uh so uh so with regard to the parent, yeah, so uh their influence is powerful. So that's that we much understand like she spoke about family pressure and uh this is I'm not quoting the mother this is these are my summaries okay um and uh you have to the the parental input u has to be uh led by example. If you want your child to be one way but your behavior is another way then you cannot expect nor blame your child to be to not be what you wished it. So you have to live the high ideal you wish to see in your child. And that is where sincerity, honesty, courage, patience and self-control. Now this is I suppose if all of us in India look closely with uh with our to our children and uh especially look introspect us as parents as what we are. We have to see whether we are doing this ourselves before we expect that of our children. So this is also a little frightening as a parent. Children learn primarily by imitation. So again if you uh your so your education has to begin before birth even during conception and through the course of the pregnancy she asks you to be quite a model human being you know and that is difficult you know you have so many women u allowing the all sorts of behavior because of the hormonal turmoil they have because they're pregnant but the fact is that if you want to have a child bring a child to this world you cannot let your behavior your thought. It has it actually is a is a task. She assigns you a a huge task. And then of course once the child is born the owners of the parent is to as you said uh as Shabbinda also wanted to support an organic growth. Let the child discover what is true within him. So mother has very distinctly up to the age of 13 and 14 onward. So up to the age of 13 she says you have to be the support you have to be that educator that instinct uh instructor that parent who helps to the who helps the child realize what he has within to bring that and 14 onwards she encourages the child to find out his own life and his interests to the extent that is possible and most important we are all products of our family um legacies our family expectations And so uh to consciously avoid imposing that and I and as a teacher actually in the school for 15 years and having studied in the school myself and having seen much children through uh I think one of the biggest conflicts our children have because the experiment is trying to emulate the mother's dream but we are imperfect as teachers and we imperfect as parents and I see children in that conflict of not understanding how to reconcile parental expectation versus what is being done in the school versus what they read the mother has said the school should be there is huge conflict. So that is that is something that we have to as parents realize we cannot do. Uh so conventional parental pressure for utilitarian success is frequently the greatest obstacle to the child's reper growth. So when you talked about STEM and suicide that is exactly it you know uh what what is your child doing? My child is actually when I I have to answer my daughter uh if I have to be truthful about what what my daughter is doing, she's actually going to a farm every week and she's observing bees, she's observing butterflies, she's observing uh a turtle and uh she's observing uh a ball python, she's observing their uh and she's making notes, you know, and [laughter] how and said, "What does the child want to become?" I said, "She'll decide." But uh you know at some point in my head back of my head I do worry like uh okay she's pursuing this but then where is she going to take it but then I have to check myself as a mother but then that is what the school allows and that's the beauty of the school. So uh again uh that is and most important is that um this thing about telling the child and this is really a malady that you haven't got the grades you haven't got the prize you haven't got the uh recognition uh then then where are you the pressure on the child to bring that trophy home for the parent and that expectant parent you know looking at the child with that trophy as that was all that there was to achieve at that age of 12, 13, 14, you know, that is what uh is uh is uh is destructive for a child as far as parents parenting is concerned. So that is what that is the job of the parent here. Um actually um taking a cue from what you're saying, Sherbindu says that moral uh education is very important but moral education by example. Yeah, >> it's the teacher's job. It's the parents job to give that example. You cannot ask the child to be a truthful child if you're constantly lying, you know, about small things in front of her and so on. You know that if you show probity, the child will learn it. >> So moral education through example. So part two is teachers. Unfortunately, we fought in we fall in both categories. So we are like forced into doing yoga whether we want it or not. So what are the demands of the teacher? Oops. Uh yeah. So uh not easy again. Uh so you must be what you want the students to become. That summarizes the extent of effort we are actually expected to uh put in when we take our classes. So be a living example. complete self-control uh no ego no preference no sense of superiority that I am imparting this knowledge to you none of that vanity and this is uh this is actually a lifesaver continuous self-progress because uh most of the ills of teaching come when you think that you have it all your notes are prepared year after year how much is English literature changing if I if I'm stuck if if I say I take v the Victorian age how much more Can I add to it? But then the fact is that you can add. There are so many ways to teach it differently. There's so many ways to compare it that literature to contemporary literature. So the progress of your student will depend on your progress. So there is no stagnation possible. You the a teacher has never acquired knowledge when it comes to uh the mother's system of education. Again act as helper not as a guide and especially not a dictator. uh she has quite interesting things on homework which which I leave you all to read. Uh it's quite interesting how she you should always remember that the mother almost always is focused on the child. So the onus of how to uh how to do your homework and what to expect from it and and uh how much pressure to put on your child for it is act again for the teacher uh said never hammer a child into a preconceived shape. This I think even Tagore has uh put in his writing with he founded the Vishabharati uh and anyway they were waferers of the same path. So you can see that never to put uh no scolding I will fail. Uh and this is the this is the beauty. Children have to be happy. Are they happy in your class? You know, do do you see happiness in them? And uh again, this is something that we have I would say in over 80 years in our school achieved to a very large degree and refrain from compliance no matter what the pressure is not to rely on tests or external marks. So this independence from any you know board I I know because when I work for this NGO I know the pressures they have for the 10th and the 12th and I look at our children and I say wow you don't even know the pressures you're not getting you are just such happy children you know your your 10th and you don't even know what is a board exam and here we are in the NGO you know supporting children with extra coaching classes which they cannot afford otherwise just so they get that crucial mark in the 10th that determine what they will do you know the 10th it determines where you will go you know and then the 12th of course so a teacher's progress is a must and uh Dandini the teacher's first duty is self transformation without it all advice [laughter] remains ineffective so we have a lot of work to do but then she doesn't spare the student either that's the sweetest bit about the mother >> so quickly uh talk about how much time do I have? So uh when so the mother doesn't spare the student in the sense that uh this I found really I in fact I was uh seeking the best uh answer to what was happening in my country and uh this is something that uh I is there in the mother's writing in French in one of the staircases that leads up to the children's section in our school and this is the translation so you you know uh people mistake this whole thing that let children flower let let let let them find their own self and that can quickly lead like I said to absolute degradation and then you allow absolute rubbish in the class in the name of oh my god let the children no don't scold this is you know but the but the mother is absolutely trenchant about this she says to be noisy in class is an act of selfish stupidity if you don't intend to attend attend the class silently and attentively, it is better not to come. So I tell my students, you know, if I told you selfish stupidity, you would say [gasps] Ali is giving us, she's swearing at us. But these are the mother's words. She does not tolerate this sort of, you know, license to bad behavior and teachers, you know, taking their hands off their students to let them do what they like. And then there is complete chaos and indiscipline and screaming and shouting all in the name of some sort of warped understanding of what is the free progress of a child. No, there are limits and if you do not if your noise is preventing somebody else from progressing, it is actually a reflection of selfish stupidity. This this is how trenchant she is. And then there is the other one. Uh this is an extract from the this is all quoted from this book uh education an extract from the minutes of teachers meeting. The meeting felt concern over lack of discipline, good manners and right behavior among some students. So again the mother you know I insist on the necessity of having good manners. I do not see anything grand in the manners of a gutter snipe. Now these are not my words. This is the mother 4th March 1960. It's 1960. So again you know it's very easy to read part of her and then relinquish all responsibility and then be lentious and libertina libertine when it comes to your attitude to but that is not what she's asking at all. Discipline is at the core. It is at the very core. And then for students, this is what she says. The things to be taught to a child, the necessity of absolute sincerity. Nandini, since AI has come in, what are the problems you face with this? [laughter] Oh my god. So, you know, I am I I have been forced to now run every single word that is submitted as home assignment through an AI tracker. And it is really sad and and the fact is that I know because I know how these kids write. >> Exactly. >> So the moment they start writing in those sets of three sentences, I can tell this is AI. So there you go. >> And what about I have problems with even them reading elaborate summaries and not reading and coming in class. So sincerity is uh something that we have to try and insult from age up to like I said 12, 13, 14. But by 14 a child should know for his own good that uh ultimately the the the thing that will take you forward is not academics but if you are sincere you know with sincerity everything else will flow you know industry will flow from sincerity uh reaching your goal everything flows from there. Second point, the certitude of the final victory of truth. You know, so this again uh ily lumè. This is the prayer prayer we were taught. Oh, at the end of the tunnel is light. At the end of the battle is victory. So uh don't give up on truth. Again, it's a reflection of sincerity. The possibility and the will to progress. No stagnation, no space. >> Yeah. Absolutely. And then of course all the elements of the ideal child. So you see uh it's difficult for a parent. It is difficult it is uh it is difficult and very idealistic for a teacher but it is there is no less expectation actually from the student too. So uh good temper, fair play, truthfulness, patience, endurance, perseverance, equinimity, courage, cheerfulness. So this is what she expects the children to be. So yeah, so this is my summary of uh what I uh so actually I'm thankful to the the organizers because initially uh I don't think I'm capable of talking of any work of shindu but revisiting the opportunity to revisit this book on education by the mother is why I said yes I because I read them read it twice during my pregnancies and I said no it's high time teaching I should go back to this book again. So actually I'm quite thankful uh you have closed mimas. >> Uh um yeah a big thank you to the organizers and it's always it's always a little bit daunting but also a great uh uh opportunity to talk about Shbindo and and and the way he thought about national education and importance of education. Uh but for me I think uh I'm not a product of the school. I'm not a product of sic. I've sort of parachuted from outside. So for me it's a bit of a learning curve as well. >> It is still a learning curve for all of us [laughter] >> and >> we are not any special I'm telling you >> and to and to see how revolutionary uh his ideas were is is just brings us right back to why we are here. Thank you again. >> Thank you. >> [music] >> Oh. [music]