The Most Insane Chiropractic Adjustment Ever | Beau Hightower

OW! OW! OH MY GOD! OW! MY SHOULDER. OW! OW! OW! OH MY GOD! OW! Welcome back to the Ice Coffee Hour. I'm Bo Hightower, and this podcast has made 2.137 million dollars. What a guess. No. 214,020 dollars. It's ad revenue. Yeah. Ad revenue. Okay. Yeah. But anyway, Thanks so much for coming on, man. man. I've been really looking forward to this. So, I've watched your content from like 3 years ago. I hate to say it, but I would just be like back cracking guy on YouTube and seeing the most incredible videos of just like contorting people and then their their whole body cracks in a way that I can't even explain it. It becomes addicting where you want to just keep watching like the ASMR for this. And I'm thinking, I How do I How can I do that? How did you get started doing this? And not only that, but like your content has gone crazy viral over these last like 3 years has it been? Yeah, roughly. Well, let's see. I I was born in a cold hospital in 1983. Mhm. No, long story short, I I I was an athlete all the way growing up, you know, early and mid '90s. Um big football fan, the the 49ers in particular and the Cowboys also. They had a team Cairo and it would show up on like the the Fox, you know, news spots about them like Jerry Rice and Joe Montana. So, my dad started taking me to go to one in high school when I was playing football and it made a really big difference for me. Um so, after college, you know, I was a biology major to start with and I was trying to figure out do I want to continue into biology? Do I want to work for like US Fish and Wildlife? Um cuz I really enjoyed getting out in nature and doing like, you know, groundwater chemistry and and, you know, turbidity readings and things like that. Yeah. Not really great for your bottom line. Yeah. Um so, I'm like, okay, what am I to do? My dad is a home builder, so not not really interested in that at all. And then his dad sold carpet. So, we just have like a lot of different Mhm. business interests in the family. And so, I think there was a like a flyer in the um the professions office where it was like, you know, apply to pharmacy school, Cairo school, PT school. So, I started shadowing different people and the PTs that I shadowed were um they were kind of older folks and it just didn't feel like my niche. And then I went back to my Cairo from my youth and he had a bunch of high school athletes on. He was playing golf. And I was like, you know, that looks like a pretty a pretty good career path for me. So, went to Cairo school. Um had practices in Dallas, San Antonio, Cincinnati and then I finally resettled in Albuquerque about 10 years ago. And um so, I've been working with MMA fighters in an MMA gym for about little over a decade now. And uh basically what had happened was I got banned from Instagram in 2018 um for reposting UFC videos. They were really trying to clean up all their content at the time. So, they were IP copyright striking everybody in the world. And I got like six in a row on Instagram. So, they completely deleted my account. Yeah. Okay. And that's where I grown like a following first. Like fighters promoting me and things like that. So, I had, you know, at the time maybe 250,000 on IG. That's pretty good. So, didn't have any on YouTube. Um and so, you know, I'm used to uploading stuff. And so, I started throwing some of my videos up on YouTube and the next thing I knew I had like 1.8 million 2 million views. And um I just got lucky. I was on the front edge of the Cairo tube wave. You know, there was the I've never heard of that Cairo tube. There's finance tube, right? There's gun tube and there's Cairo tube. Is Cairo tube big? Yeah. It's it's decreased now, but it's big, yeah. Mhm. There's several several There's one guy that's got over 2 million subs. Okay. But there's a lot that are over a million. Mhm. So, there's like four or five that were really big at the time that were posting. Um and it was kind of like the pimple popping thing. People were all just like, "Whoa, what's that?" Like those crunchy sounds and it was just something we hadn't really seen a lot before. that. What is it? The pimple doctor, the pimple popping doctor, whatever it is. She's cute. On Instagram, it keeps coming up recommended and I don't want to watch it, but I have to I have to watch it all the way through. Yep. And she's rich. She has a TLC show. Oh, yeah. So, it was kind of the same thing. So, I was lucky to be one of those first four or five people that was really popping off. And then algorithmically, I had fighters, so there was UFC fans that were watching it, too. So, it just kind of popped off and then ever since then we're like, "All right, let's keep this content going and how do we keep it fresh and interesting?" So, what do you think makes people enjoy watching content of you cracking people's body and contorting it so much? What What's so special about it? I mean, I think what we just talked about in the ASMR era, it turns out subconsciously there's a lot of things that psychologically we like, some things we don't like. So, if you ever see Have you ever seen the mildly infuriating mildly infuriating Reddit? Yeah, yeah. Well, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. cut the pizza in the wrong slices and they mark outside the lines and they go to break glass, but don't actually show the the break. So, there's something in us where and somebody has done this, too, where they start to do the adjustments and they don't do the crack. And it's like infuriating. So, there's something something subconsciously about a sound being released and completion maybe of a task that we like. And I think like you said, along the lines of pimple popping, it's satisfying to see like a blackhead come out. There's something primal and nobody really knows, but subconsciously about us watching somebody's body do that and make those kinds of sounds. I'm curious, is it ever dangerous? Because half the times I see like you did the grandma, the What is it? The TikTok grandma. And I think she's in her 80s or 90s and you're sitting there like holding her head like like jolting her head. Like I'm ever worried, is there ever a risk that like you snap the wrong way and it just goes horribly wrong? Yeah, there's always a risk to anything, right? There's a risk to driving in the car, drinking coffee. But statistically we know the relative risk. So, as long as you're doing a good screening of the patient's medical history, I mean, you're talking one per 10, 20 million or something like that, which is about the same as sneezing or coughing or, you know, going to jujitsu or boxing or anything like that. So, you know, like boxing, you saw the Puerto Rican fighter that you know, a few years ago one hit and has brain damage or whatever. Everything carries a risk. Your medications, your ibuprofen, you know, literally everything. But it's about making sure you're getting the the right history on the right person and being able to mitigate those as much as possible. Got it. So, what exactly are you doing when you take someone's neck and you jolt it to the one side and you hear a crack? What's going on beneath that? So, what you're looking at, if you looked at a spine, you've got vertebra and then you've got discs. So, they kind of space in between them. There's a bunch of ligaments and muscles on the side. One of the corners there's these joints called called zygapophyseal joints or facet joints. So, those joints allow gliding of the spine in different directions. You know, the middle part allows you resist- this is resistance mostly to compression. So, what can happen is those joints on the side get stuck. They they basically overlay each other like that. When they get stuck, you won't be able to move very well. You'll get pain in those areas, particularly over the joint line. So, when you get a crack, and you don't have to get the crack for the re-movement, that just is an indicator that you've reached full range of motion. Mhm. Is basically that joint stretches far enough to where the gas that's within it dissolves and it basically pops the bubble that's in there. And then that basically is the sound that you're making. So, essentially by getting the joint to end range, you allow that patient to move through through their full range of motion. So, that's super helpful in an acute patient. Like say your rib is stuck or you have an SI joint that's stuck. Um but by and large that's only one aspect of treatment. So, now you got full range, but how do you keep it there? Right? If they've been stuck for a while, then they need to make sure they're doing stretches, rehab exercises so they maintain that range of motion so they don't get locked up again. Yeah. So, one morning I woke up a few months ago, I had the worst stiff neck I've ever had in my entire life and I literally could not move my head for an entire day. And I went on YouTube and I saw that it was more so like muscle stretching. How much of this movement is muscle versus just the the spine itself? Yeah. And I don't think you can ever really separate them from each other. Um so that's what we call torticollis or wry neck. Um this is something that spinal manipulation is really good at. There's a lot of things that could cause a spasm. Ligament strain, facet joint strain, sprain, disc bulges could do it. But typically if you haven't had a trauma, then you know it's probably not like an acute disc herniation or bulge. Like something's landed on your head or Yeah. So usually when that happens, either you've got a joint that's stuck or you managed to strain one of the ligaments. Then what happens, your body tries to protect itself, so it spasms all the muscles. So when we So So really what I do is something called naprapathy. So naprapathy is treating ligaments and muscles, but also within that I also went to chiro school as well. So I have two doctorates. So combining those two things, I found gets the best results. We loosen up all the muscles, we get in there, we break up the tissue, and then we make sure the joint has full range of motion. And then they get their exercises. And then what's going on when you take the big pin and you take the hammer and you're just like knocking it? That That seems painful. Yeah, it's So So you'll see in a in a few minutes. What seems painful is actually not, and then the opposite is also true. So when you see me just like kind of haphazardly touching a trigger point, Yeah. that's actually significantly more painful. Right. What we're doing there is we're either tricking the muscle into the spindling. So So like if I'm having them turn their head and I'm tapping on the muscle, similar to a vibration plate, we're tricking the muscle into not knowing how long it's supposed to be. So it allows you to pass through that end range of motion of what the muscle spindle and the the the mechanoreceptors think it is. Sometimes, like with a pelvis, say I have like a posterior tilt, Yeah. like your hip bone tilts this way. This is a pretty common thing in PT and chiro. What we're doing is we're moving the top end forward and the bottom end up. So we're aligning you that way. And then of course we go on to loosen the hamstring so that it doesn't pull it back down. So sometimes we're using it to move a bone in a specific direction. Sometimes we're using it to loosen muscles. That's incredible. I've never been to a chiropractor. Never? Ever. Oh, man. No, I've seen all the videos, but I've never been myself. Okay. I'm curious, how much did it cost to to get yourself through school? Well, I have six college degrees and a post-doc certificate, so probably cumulative somewhere in the 300 to 400,000 range. Do you still carry debt from that? No. Oh. That's it. That seems like a lot. Um is the ROI better to go into chiropractics? Because I would imagine for $400,000 you could become, you know, get into plastic surgery, neurosurgery, like there's so many different ways you could go with that that like right off the bat you would get a salary like 400 grand. Well, it's super relative. So, like chiro is more like PT or optometry or podiatry, more of the allied fields as opposed to medical degrees, right? So, there's no there's no specialty as far as your licensing goes in any of those allied fields, pharmacy as well. You can do more things, like you could be a clinical pharmacist or whatever, but basically pharmacy is one degree, chiro similar. So, like I have 350 hours of post-doc neuro education, but that doesn't change my scope of practice really. So, essentially you do 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of chiro school, 8 years, and then you'd be a chiropractor. Same with the property. So, with med school you're going to do 4 years, 4 years of med school, and then you have to do residency. So, that's what people when they're they're looking at all these things they have to decide cuz if you're doing plastic surgery, you're looking at a minimum of 5 years of residency plus fellowship after that. Yeah. going to be making 60, 70 grand a year during that time, and your debt is accumulating, and you're drawing interest on that. Yes, their salary will be significantly higher later on, but they're also much further out as far as opportunity cost. Whereas chiros as soon as they graduate they can practice right away. I think the data, if I looked at the statistics correctly, chiro has the worst debt-to-income ratio of any any degree that you can get. How much do chiropractors usually make? the median salary is about 70, 75,000. Really? Is that like entry level? I think that's cumulative. I think that's everybody. Wow. Probably a quarter of my class I think doesn't practice anymore. So, they're either in farm rep or oil or Oh, do a lot of people they go into it and then go into it? Yeah, so it's a big broad like umbrella. So, you know, a lot of people that you know, in in certain faiths. Like we have a lot of Mormons that were in our Cairo school cuz you know, they're just not into pharmaceuticals or or or chemicals. So, they find their way into a natural or holistic field. Um so, a lot of people get in this one to do nutrition or supplements or things like that. But of course, insurance isn't really covering that and you're not going to get hired at a hospital on a salary. So, you've got to go out there and create a business. So, Cairo and dentistry are similar in that sense where there's not a whole lot of jobs out there. So, you have to be a business owner essentially or start a business. Got it. Um where PT you could you know, you could get an in-home or at home job or salary. It may not be high, but there's always a job. For Cairo, there's not a lot of jobs like in New Mexico I think there's one at the VA hospital, one at Kirtland Air Force Base, one at UNM, and those are the only three jobs in our entire city that are like a salaried, getting insurance, 401k jobs. Everybody else is either working for another Cairo or they've tried to open their own spot. you open up your first place? Is that what you did right after college? So, I worked for a corporation in Texas first for a couple of years. And so, uh what I wanted to do was learn the ins and outs of treatment and I actually worked in middle management too to kind of figure out how the brokers worked on negotiations and things like that. Um but not on my dollar. Um I didn't want to learn on the job on my dollar. Mhm. So, I kind of set up a lot of practices for them. I worked in several family practices. So, I worked you know, underneath medical doctors in a lot of offices. Learned how to get referrals from them. Learned how to communicate with them. And then after a couple years of that, that's when I opened my spot. So, my first my first job and and so, let me rewind that. So, obviously flat broke coming out. My parents had saved a decent amount of money for me, you know, 50 60,000 for college. I had a scholarship all the way through undergrad. So, I didn't owe anything from there, and then they helped apply that towards my grad school. So, I didn't owe much, like maybe 40 grand, I think. Yeah. This is 12 years ago. It's much higher now, obviously, with um inflation That's Thanks, Jerome. That's the magic word. Everybody's favorite, Jerome Powell. Yeah. So, I only owed 30 or 40, I think, coming out. So, I paid that off in the first years. I just kept living like a student the whole time. Um so, I had about 30 or 40,000 saved when I went to start, but I didn't work for maybe 5 months. So, when you don't have any income coming in and you're living on that, it goes really quickly. So, my first office that I owned, um I had a friend that owned a building, and I negotiated he he didn't make me pay the first and last. I was paying 500 a month for a one-room suite in the in the hood in Albuquerque. And then, uh I built everything else myself. I got a a table from a guy uh on eBay. Um my office equipment was a family friend that had had a stroke, and so I bought his, you know, office furniture for really cheap, obviously. Painted the office myself, and I didn't I couldn't afford staff, so I had to build a website. So, I was doing online scheduling 10 years ago. Uh built the website on Wix. Huh, that's cool. Didn't have a phone line, uh cuz then you have to pay somebody to answer the phones. Yeah. Um worked on wristbands, you know, way back in the day that were just linked to the website. So, if I was at the gym, and somebody was like, "Hey, you know," I'd be like, "Boom, here you go." And they could go schedule. So, I just really ran super super lean for I mean, I still do, but for the very beginning of it, so I could accumulate my own bank account to where I could buy equipment as we needed. Yeah. So, how much were you making back then in those lean days? I think my net, probably in my first year, was 25 or 30k. Okay. Um you know, going up about 30k per year until I started hiring other therapists and then getting, you know, a percentage of their revenue. So, now we have 13 therapists. Um so, essentially, they're my their fractional income kind of replaces the volume of patients I used to see, cuz I don't see new patients, and I haven't for 3 years or so. Um so, now we've got five clinics. We have one in Vegas, one in Boca Raton, three in Albuquerque. And um, yeah, it's it's it's been nice. Social media really propelled us more than anything. Um, so we're not spending money on billboards or, you know, radio ads or anything like that. You know, even when we started when I would sponsor fighters who were notoriously broke, you know, we would say, "Okay, what is your sponsorship worth? Is it worth eight treatments? Is it worth 10 treatments? We'll put us on your shorts, you know, get us on UFC countdown or, you know, those things and we'll we'll call it a trade." And um, say they have 300,000 on, you know, Instagram or something. Like, what would you pay to reach 300,000 dollars? Probably more than 200 dollars, you know. Oh, yeah. So, you know, and you're getting who says so other than you, somebody who's beating up their body more than anybody else. Right. So, it was a perfect mix for us, um, you know, working with MMA fighters cuz nobody beats their bodies up more than they do. Mhm. Is that how much it costs? Is about 200 dollars a treatment? Um, in in Nevada, our price point's a little higher than New Mexico. So, to see one of my neighbor baths here, it's 150 for a new patient. Mhm. And I think it's 100 for follow-ups. We need Each session's about an hour or so. Mhm. They average about four total sessions till they can resolve, you know, most treatments. Mhm. Is this something you recommend, like, a healthy person get done on a regular basis? Like, if they don't get beat up, So, I'll tell you that we don't treat anybody who's not in pain. Okay. So, we're not the type that promotes it as like a wellness plan. Sure. To me, when I look at somebody, if they don't have anything wrong with them, no pain, which which is rare. Like, who doesn't have some neck pain or whatever, right? Um, there's only one way you can go and that's you can't get better than no pain, you know. So, we I've had people try to come and I said, "No, no, we're not going to treat you." Mhm. Um, I generally also don't treat people over 65. I don't treat people under 16 or so. Yeah. Um, you know, cuz there are people in those fields that that specialize in geriatrics or pediatrics and that's not me. So, you have to kind of know what you're good at, what you're not, you know. We treat musculoskeletal pain at our office and that's it. We don't do nutrition, we don't sell, you know, supplements, we don't sell pillows. We try to hedgehog principle it and we try to be really good at one thing and then we can refer everybody else out. Yeah. Now, have you noticed like a commonality between people who use certain type of pillows or certain type of mattresses that they have more pain than others? Not really. Really? Yeah. Everybody always asks me that and I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, what's your pillow recommendation? have one. Like a Casper mattress I don't have a sponsor right now either, you know, so you know, generally speaking most people do better with less pillow and sleeping on their back as far as like neck and shoulder pain. Hmm. I've been thinking Jack is crazy for doing that. me a psychopath because I sleep without a pillow. I said I said okay, I jokingly said that once and now I always call Jack a psychopath. Yeah. I sleep without a pillow. It's fantastic. So it's weird. Do you not like sleep on the side of your head? You just sleep like this like a zombie? What happens No, well, so recently I've been switching to hands up and then What? No. Are you serious? You're actually a psychopath. Look at him, he's nodding. See? Wherever people can sleep well, uh you know, I'm a fan of that. Yeah. So strange. strange? I put a pillow on top of my If they're not waking up in pain and they're not getting like blood flow restrictions, then that's Imagine imagine a girl comes over and she That's what I'm thinking. She's not getting a light. Yeah. That's that's a plus and then you're getting a little compressive soft force here, which is The compression is on my forehead. Feels really nice. Yeah, I love it. So Our bodies crave compression to a certain extent. That's why everybody likes to use those compression boots and and things like that. You know, the the intracellular pressure of your body is always kind of pushing outward and the air is matching it, right? Like Yeah. And this opens you up too. Like if you're like this, your arms are too close to your legs at your sides. Yeah, you know what I got? Mason got me a weighted blanket. are great. I love it. Yeah, I'd never been a fan, but even in the heat, yeah, yeah. Even in the heat though, I turn on the air conditioning and just so I could put the weighted blanket. It's it's nice. So weird. Cold in the room to where you're snuggling with the stuff. Yeah. But even if somebody just kind of holds your arm or compresses your forearm, even just a little bit of pressure, it feels good to us. And you know, we're social beings, we're we're, you know, hominids, so we respond to social cues, to facial expressions, we we respond specifically to touch. Mhm. So just having somebody touch you, studies have shown decreases your serum cortisol. So just somebody just holding your hand or touching your forearm or things like that. So we respond to pressure. More so from other humans, but also from, you know, inanimate objects. So I'm a back sleeper, I get one of those like body pillows that has a little beads in them and I hollow it out to where there's not much there. Cuz if I sleep in, you know, we're at the the Encore and I laid on my back on the pillow and I wake up and my neck hurts cuz it's pushing my spine forward. Right. So I would tell you what you want is your spine to be lined up. You don't want your head forward or to the side of anywhere in your spine. So if you are a side sleeper, you want enough support to where you're not here or here, you know, and if you're a back sleeper, you don't want your head pushed forward. Got it. Um our spine's pretty good here. If you've ever looked out the window for a long period of time, you know, you're looking at the Grand Canyon or something and you come back you're like, "Oh." Right. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty easy to strain your neck. Um So we're more fragile than we probably should be, but What about those things that you strap yourself into? I saw the commercials in the '90s where they would invert you. The Teeters. The Teeter Totter. What was it the something Teeter? man that straps him in and he goes upside down? Teeter Hang Ups. Is that it? Yeah. Yeah, the Teeter Hang Ups. So again, same thing. It depends. You know, like we tell people if you do well with it, keep doing it. If not, then don't. You know, I'm not somebody who does well with it, but I have a disease called Scheuermann's, so I have no curve in my T-spine. So I have a lot of compression fractures in my thoracolumbar junction. The way that the pressure feels there actually causes me more pain. So when I've thrown my back out in the past or whatever, I'm like, "All right, let me jump in there and see." And most of the time for me it makes me worse. So you just have to listen to your body. You know, it's like being in the gym. Okay, you throw your back out doing deadlifts multiple times in a row, maybe that just isn't an exercise for you. Maybe just do something else, modify. Yeah. I think a question a lot of people are wondering is is it bad to crack yourself? Because I've cracked myself since I was like 7 years old. I started at my fingers. I then changed to my wrists, and now I do my neck and my back, you know. So, I do everything now. My ankles, my knees. Yeah, you name it. What I would generally say is there is such thing as over manipulation syndrome. So, you know, people that they they crack themselves too hard or too often or they go to the chiropractor too often, what happens is so when you're getting the end range of motion, right? There's ligaments that hold it together. If you continue to push past your end range of motion, what will happen is ligaments will start to stretch out eventually and they won't be super stable. So, that causes instability, which you don't want. You don't want hypermobility, but you don't want hypomobility either. So, you want to make sure that you have full range, but you don't really want to be, you know, going beyond full range. That's not exactly healthy. So, when your ligaments aren't aren't stable, that's what happens. So, as long as you're not forcing the cracking motion like a lot, I typically get manipulated or adjusted once every 6 or 8 weeks or so. That's what I found is a good amount for me. When I was in chiro school or things like that, if I had it any more frequently than that, I would actually feel like I needed it more and I would actually have more pain as opposed to working on strengthening and stretching. Got it. But first, we got to thank our sponsor Aura Frames. Graham, I have a problem. I got my dad a Tinder Platinum subscription for his birthday and he hated it. And so did my mom. And also, we got Father's Day coming up and I don't want to make the same mistake again. Jack, you just get him an Aura digital frame. 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It's a perfect gift to your parents, and it's guaranteed to make them smile. That means your parents are finally going to love you again. Listeners can use code ICH to get $20 off while supplies last. Terms and conditions apply. And from now until Father's Day, you can save on the perfect gift when you visit auraframes.com. That's auraframes, a u r a f r a m e s dot c o m. So, thank you so much, Aura Frames, and back to the podcast. So, what do you recommend people do who can't afford a chiropractor? Well, I think, you know, the great thing about the internet, YouTube, there's tons of like mobility videos out there for free, tons of stretching videos, yoga, foam rolling. That stuff clears most issues, particularly chronic issues. If you're doing strengthening and stretching and and rolling, you know, I I get flak from this from the chiro community, but I don't think people need to be adjusted that often, or it's that important for most people. Um they might disagree with that. Maybe that's cuz of their business model. I'm not here to say either way. Um I know for me personally, I don't need it that frequently. Um and I'll say this, I'll say like I said, most people, if they do core strengthening, if they're they're working, if they have somebody to even assess them, but you can sort of assess yourself. If you're stretching, doing yoga, rolling, getting strength and activity, walking, you're probably going to be okay. The the spot where the the chiros come in super super helpful, like I said, is if you get a rib stuck, or if you jam your SI joint. We have that really sharp pain here, and you're leaning away from it. Mhm. And and PTs can do manipulation, too. Or, you know, in the springtime, like I said, you get a rib stuck, and you take a breath, and it feels like somebody's stabbing you. There's not much that's more effective than manipulation in those certain circumstances. Um it can help, of course, if you have that acute neck pain. Um but yeah, just it depends on the person. Like I said, every it's finding the right fit for everybody. Um like I don't do great with massage. Some people do don't do great with manipulation. So you won't really know until you try, you know, no matter what the therapy is. But it's important to listen to your body and say yeah, I do feel better or I don't feel better and sort of tailor your life just like you would with anything else, you know. Yeah. Has anyone ever came to you with a problem that cannot be solved by cracking them? Like what if they came with like a broken bone and they messed up a bone? You know, something that needs to be cracked and you're just like The bone was like sticking out of the Sticking out of the leg or whatever, yeah. Like I said, luckily we have you know 4 years of doctoral education. Passed five or four national board exams and state licensing exams. We're trained to diagnose and do that exam. So you know, if you're missing stuff like that, that's sort of on the provider. So say I see 12 people a day, at least one or two of them I'm referring out almost every single day. They come up with an issue, I'm like I think you need back surgery. I think you need this or that. So we refer to a neurologist or you know, or we'll send back to their PCP for a bursitis injection where they need cortisone. So really, you know, we work almost like a a portal entry for musculoskeletal. A lot of people I'm like yeah, you need more strengthening for this and if a facility that has better equipment than us, we'll send you over to PT. The chiro thing is actually not all that representative of how our practice typically looks, the cracking stuff. It's a very small part. In fact, I probably only crack maybe half of my patients at all. But it definitely films well. Yeah. So you know, so so what we post, we we we don't record the boring sessions with no cracking. I think the the format of the cracking is so unique. It reminds me kind of like of Jeff's barber shop. Like I love the scenarios where it's like you're doing something else while talking to the person as like a a late night talk show except there's something else. Yeah, like hot ones. I really love that format. Yeah, and that's sort of what we realized, you know, eventually there's only so many ways you can crack a body, right? So our audience the audience capture or whatever, they're going to get bored eventually. So we were like, well, we have really interesting um um clientele and people have interesting stories to tell. So, since I do so much muscle work and so I I do so much So, when I say massage, what I mean is like I don't do well with the flu flu stuff. I do really great with deep tissue massage. Uh Thai massage, stuff like that. Painful stuff. Yeah, my muscles are generally tighter than they are loose. And everybody's wired differently, right? So, it's very rare I need to do more strengthening. I need to stretch more. I need to roll more. I need to get more bodywork. So, for me, I do much better with that. It's It takes time. It takes 20 30 45 minutes. So, during that time, it's either there's music playing or I'm like talking in their ear, but they can't really respond. But, what we found is similar to you know, those other things, we get a really honest interview or response out of people because they are feeling uh they don't have the programming on. I don't want to say vulnerable, but they don't have their I'm on TV. I'm on a network. Here's my computer program response. And I think people like that ingenuity out of them. And uh it feels genuine and it feels like um a format that they're not used to. And so, that's been something that's helped to keep our channel, you know, Yeah. relevant. How do you get so many celebrities on? It seems like in one episode you'll have like five huge people on there. And like they're not even their own episode. I'm like you you package them together with everyone else. Yeah, so I mean, really it started being in MMA gyms. So, you know, Jackson's in particular in Albuquerque and you know, our partners here at Extreme Couture. There's going to be at these mega gyms 15 20 pretty famous UFC fighters. So, that's where we start. And most other athletes enjoy fighting. There's something primal Dana White talks about this. People like conflict. They like to watch fighting. They like to watch wrestling. Um So, most other athletes are fans of fighters. And so, they see the treatments and they're like, "Hey man, I want that. I need that." Um so, mostly they'll reach out to me. Um probably 80% of them reach out to me. Or when we're doing a plug or an episode, it's somebody that's friends with somebody else and they're like, "Hey, they'd be a great guest for you." Um so, that's generally how we've kind of set those up. It's It's changed a lot more in the last year or so as our channel's gotten bigger and people want to come on, you know, uh you know, mutually beneficial collabs. They might have a book to sell, you know, stuff like that. It's Now they're coming to me not necessarily cuz they need the treatment as much, but because they like the platform as well. So So that's fine, too, you know. Who is the most unique person that you've cracked? Like like a really neat story or someone that really stood out? Unique? Yeah. Like like a change in them or just a unique individual? individual or both? Yeah. So like Brian Shaw, he's like he's a world's strongest man competitor. He's like 6'9" 430 lbs. I didn't some of them, right? Like I tried, I couldn't even get my arms around his head. No. First guy that's ever been so big that I couldn't even get my arms in and around. So we had to kind of modify that one. So from that aspect, you know, somebody that tall or whatever, the physics matters, you know? And it And it gives me empathy for like my smaller providers that that's how my body feels to them. You know, I'm like, "Oh, man, that's that's rough." Um you know, we've had some Like I said, we've had some characters. We had the wide neck guy. Oh, you had the Oh, wait. So he's he's a interesting guy. Um you know, we're like, "Well, I do neck stuff." And he's got the most famous neck. Um That is a match made in Did you do long neck? You did him, too? Yeah. Yeah. Um that's not been published yet, though. Oh, wow. It's in the It's in the archives ready to roll. Um cuz usually, you know, for us we content farm, so we'll go to LA or wherever um for a few weeks and then we'll rack up 10 20 videos. Um and then I go back to my life and we'll just kind of leak them you know, one at a time. I have a really juicy question for you. Uh I admittedly uh watching chiropractic videos are one of my uh guilty pleasures. And I notice a lot of thumbnails um let's just say get the attention of a lot of male. Uh now is that on on purpose or you know, does it get better views? I mean you know, just Yeah, those are the videos that you're getting recommended on. So, the algorithm works by recommending you content Alex that you watch and that you clicked on. So, it sends you more of that Alex. So, Yeah, I mean you know me man. I just I just look at something and if I like it I'll click it, you know. I'll say this like you know my wife she comment Man of culture I see. Is that a comment that shows up sometimes? So, my wife was doing like fitness model stuff like 7 or 8 years ago when we when we first started dating. So, you know all of her sponsored like co-workers or whatever always wanted to get adjusted as well. So, we're like let's film it and then obviously those videos get a lot of traction. I mean you start overlapping. I mean my demos is probably 95% young males. I mean YouTube is overwhelmingly young and male anyway, right? So, what are they into? Well, they like giant men. They like men that look like cartoons and they like women that sort of look like cartoons as well. So, just like Instagram anywhere else who's who's popular? It's a 6'9 420 lb man. It's a girl with you know, stuff in her lips or you know, pink hair or whatever. So, stuff that's visually striking. I don't think our thumbnails look different from male to female. I think you see the same face. I think even all the other things but because of the intrinsic bias of the person watching it it feels different with a female doing it or male doing it. So, you're saying I'm biased? I think you might be looking for a certain type of content. Because you know, we'll have a we'll have a male model on it's got a six-pack ripped abs and all that other kind of stuff. No shirt in the thumbnail. Yeah, Alex skims around. The algorithm does that too like the the ones that have like the the fit females they're definitely less RPM CPM than like a bodybuilding female that's wearing the same clothes or you know, world's strongest man female or I think yeah, a lot of that has to do with the audience who's clicking on that video. Right. So So, maybe that audience is less valuable to advertisers than the other audience. say this, on the videos that he's talking about, like we do have an overwhelmingly amount of people coming from India, Pakistan, Indonesia. Um so, I don't I don't know what that means, but you know, those those videos and WWE videos also, tons from India. So, obviously the CPM RPM is going to be lower from Indian viewers than it is from, you know, New Zealand, Norway, US. Um so, it just depends, you know, we we we pull from all those different categories. Um most of them are just happening to be my wife's friends that want to come on the channel, so uh that's probably we probably do one female for every five guests. But yeah, the comment that's like that's a comment we get a lot and I'm like I I think you're telling on yourself. You're not watching my You got to watch my guy You got to watch some of his videos. You know, you're right. I I tend The ones that get recommended to me are either those or like Mark Henry, like world whatever. He he's a big guy and I love watching those. So, you know, I I think you're right. It's like opposites. So, the so the so really big freakish looking guys tend to get the more clicks, you know, like Henry. And obviously the overlap of uh you know, even even if it's a fighter, a small fighter isn't going to get like physically small fighter isn't going to get nearly the views of a heavyweight. So, if I have Ngannou on, it's 1.3 million views. If I have like uh you know, Cheeto Vera or somebody like that, then it's 400,000 views. And then I have Michelle Waterson on, it's 7 million views. That's interesting. How much strategy do you put in the YouTube channel? With the content in general? Not not a ton. Really? You know, mostly it's like people that we think are interesting as well that you know, that we vibe with or whatever. You know, we're starting to learn a little over time and there's certain videos that the interview went so boring, it's just not worth publishing, you know? So, we've had a couple of those, but you know, this is a new a new problem or a new issue that we've run into. And like I said, I still work a regular 9-5. Um you know, between me treating patients and then running and doing payroll and inventory. Yeah. So, I'm curious, is it worth it for you to do the 9-5 at this point given just how big the platforms are and your reach? Mhm. Like could you break down a little bit just like how your income is between different formats cuz I would assume at this point you wouldn't be doing any sort of 9-5 work anymore. Yeah, I would say depending on if we have any in ad videos or sponsors, you know, we're probably bringing between great money. Yeah. Great money, but not FU money. Okay. So, probably between YouTube and Facebook 5-600k before taxes. Right. And uh probably another 2 or 300 from my clinic before taxes. Got it. Okay. You know, our gross is high, but I pay my employees a ton. Yeah. so, 70% of our income goes back to our team. Yep. You know, which I don't know any other business that really does that, but to me we're a we're provider-based clinic and a patient-based clinic. So, how do you keep good staff? Well, you got to pay them, right? Like you got to pay them well and take care of them. And so, that's what we focus on from that. So, it's like I almost feel like my clinic now just pays my taxes for my social media. Yep. Um but I'm also scared to death that somebody at YouTube or Facebook would just go blink and turn you off. always worried about. You know, and you're like, well, I went all in on this game and uh you know, it's just one person found that they didn't like me. And uh you know, and you just never know. I I I don't think it's likely for either of us. I don't think either of us are going to get Alex Jones or you know, Steven Crowder or any of these people that do controversial content uh cuz I just don't touch that kind of content, obviously. But it it makes you worried sometimes when you see that happen to certain people. Or my niche just dries up completely, right? Like it's just like, okay, we've we've seen every crack video. And that's happened you know, my friend Gregory Johnson, he was the first CairoTuber that really broke big, probably. You know, and he was super viral for a while and um you know, his his content he's just not getting the views that he used to get. He's getting 5-6k views a video. But do you think he's not innovating like he used to or Probably. I mean, he's 60 62 years old and he he hit a niche and he has a he's a really good provider and he's got a really a unique adjustment and nobody had seen that before. But we've seen it now. So, what are you doing to modify and stay in it and, you know, I'm at a nice intersection age-wise at 38 that, you know, I didn't grow up with the tech, but I'm young enough to have utilized that at a young age to where I could sort of adapt back and forth. And that's what like So, what you're talking about is us bringing on interesting guests and, you know, whether it's Mark Henry or Goldberg or whatever, and they're also telling you a story as well. Which other channels may or may not do. So, that's where actually being a social media person as well is a different story than just being a a clinician that's constant having to go. Yeah. It takes a lot of energy to continue to innovate, too. I mean, especially if you have a format and you're in your 60s or you just don't have the energy to do it. So, it's a lot. I think a lot of people at that point just kind of accept it and will move on. It's not worth it to them. Well, you know, for him he's like, "I got 5 years worth of revenue and and a rabid uh patient population." People fly from all over the world to go see him. Wow. Um he has a deal with the hotel there, so he he puts them up and he sees them like three or four days in a row. So, it's really been a boon to his actual brick-and-mortar business, and he makes a ton of money. He charges, you know, probably three or four times what I do. Um but if people are willing to pay for it, then that's what it is, right? So, uh So, he I think he does really, really well from his actual clinic. And then he's he's training other providers now that are going to replace him as well. So, but he he didn't put all his eggs in that basket. He never stopped treating, you know, even treating new patients. Where I I don't do that, you know. Um you know, you you may have experienced this where you get stalkers and No, we've been good. Our audience is uh no stalkers. We we've never been stalked. No, no, no, honestly. No, I'm I'm Yeah, I'm being serious. I've never I've never had a single issue. But, I think our audience is is tends to be more finance oriented, uh you know, into really bettering themselves. Uh they tend to be a little bit older. Um and I think because of that, like the people we meet are always like, "Yo, man, check out my credit card." Or I just saved all this money. I just paid off this debt. Or I just bought a property. Those are are people I think are less likely to have the tendencies to become stalkers. Mhm. I think. I'll knock on wood, you know, but uh Yeah. And I guess that's a good point that I hadn't really thought of is that a lot of people that are watching my content or pain-related content are in severe pain or you know, are desperate or and whether it's physical or mental or whatever, um are looking for something like that. And so I had one that was like right down the street from me. He lived right there and he would leave notes all over the place and all over town and just you know, really severely mentally ill. I had a restraining order and you know, it gets weird and then what I do, like you can look at my business address, like you know where I am, you know, 5 days a week. So I'm a sitting duck, a sitting target. So we have people that would come up and they would just drive from North Dakota or wherever and they would show up and they'd wait for me in the parking lot or they would come up into my they would open my door and sit down in my room, you know, so we had to take my name off the door and you know, start locking doors and adding in security protocols and you know, things like that that stuff you never really expect when you're like, "Oh, I'll just start posting things online." You know, so things can get dangerous for people, um especially when you're out in the public like that, you know. I will say actually it does remind me, I did 3 years ago have one person. This is back when I was like actively doing real estate. So if uh if you were looking for real estate, it it was easy back then to just Google my name and see my phone number. It was there. Um so before I changed that number, I got this one guy who kept calling and calling and he would leave the creepiest voicemails. Like creepy ones. Wait, you told me about this guy. Yeah, I think I still have the voicemails. It could be, you know, 1:00 in the morning, 3:00 in the morning, you know, 10:00 at it it didn't matter, but he would call and leave sometimes like 1 to 3-minute long voicemails. Or sometimes the first like 30 seconds would just be breathing and then he'd be like, "It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. Just wait. Just wait. Eventually you'll see it. It's amazing." And but but like do do that the entire But he would mention my name like Graham, I'm going to show you. Like like stuff like this. I'm like, "What is he going to show me? This is like But it But it But it it it really freaked me out. should. Um let's see if I still have it. Oh wait, that's my mom. I want to hear that one. I think this is the contact of crazy person. it is. Hey Graham, I just wanted to ask you a question. This is Thanks. Bye. So bleep the name on that. And then here's right afterwards. Hi Graham, I was going to ask you a couple of questions. Man, it's I'm indescribably grateful and thankful. I'm having trouble processing it all. Graham, it's so beautiful and precious. I I can't thank God enough for my friends. It's going to be a miracle when it happens. Wow. Thank you so much, God. Have a great day, Graham. I've deleted some of them, but okay. What's What do you have now? 3.3 million subs or something like that? Yeah, no, this is back in the This is in the beginning. about this. If If you're looking at the general public, and I don't I don't you know I don't know what the numbers are, but say let's just make up a number right now. Say 4% of people have severe mental illness, right? Like The The The end number, the numerical number of people that are watching your content that have imaginary relationships with you, that that really know you, and you're their entertainment, you're not a person, right? You probably get this at the airport and stuff like that, right? Where you're eating or you're trying to check in, and the people run up and want to take a picture with you. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you you have to be nice or whatever, but it's like, "Dude, you're making me late for my flight." Like I'm Oh no, I've never I've never had a bad I've never had a bad experience with that. too, you know? Like Yeah. No, the word though the worst experience I've had was uh Well, it wasn't even the worst experience. It was just I remember a guy I think it was I think it was with you, Jack, actually. It was in Santa Monica. A guy came up, really nice, by the way. I didn't know anyway. But he just he wanted to hang out afterwards. Sure. And uh he wanted to exchange phone It was just awkward for me cuz I was like, "You could you know, maybe an email's best, or send me a DM." He's like, "But what's your number?" Like I was like, I don't give him out my number. But it but and it just kept like "No, it's okay, but like just give me the number." It's just awkward for me. catching the social cues. Right, but really nice. So like not That was the worst I've I've ever had, but and it's not that bad. Yeah, and I don't have too many actual bad ones in person. Like people generally sort of know how to get along face-to-face. But I mean there's some that that don't obviously. And you know, and I've seen it firsthand too cuz I I travel with a lot of the fighters and I have for a long time. So you know, there's there's levels of real fame. There's like YouTuber internet fame, which is like eh. And then there's like, you know, UFC fighter Jon Jones, Holly Holm fame. And then there's like actor fame, right? Like Ludacris or Queen Latifah or people like that, where they have to have hired security. They can't go anywhere. And it makes you really like it makes you feel for them in a way that they're they they have to be sort of lonely or on guard all the time. That there's really nowhere that they could go and just go shopping without somebody getting a picture or screaming Ludacris or, you know, all these people that I've that I've met that they just And if it's happened from a young age, what's their world experience? They're 22 and they become famous. And you know, it's our fault. We put ourselves out there. I can't complain if something happens cuz nobody made me, you know, have subscribers on the internet but me. But when it starts to like interfere, you know, and I guess some of these people are so rich that they can just fly private or they have security. But imagine being somewhere in between to where you're you're really really well known, but you're not wealthy enough to fly private or, you know, or whatever. And you just have to sit there and coach with everybody who wants to take your picture every single time. Uh and you don't have anything to gain from it. You're not selling anything. I would almost think it's it's a lot of the larger YouTubers would get more attention than a big actor. I think KSI was the one who was talking about this. It was so true. He went out to dinner and he was sitting uh close in close proximity to Keanu Reeves, who's really famous. Everyone was coming up to KSI because he was more approachable and people felt like they knew him as a as a person than Keanu Reeves, who's like uh this big movie star, let me not bother him. But, KSI, like I've been watching you for years. Uh, it's appropriate that I come up and say hi. Sure. Uh, even for me, I I've seen certain people out or see like, oh wow, there's no way I'm going to bother them. But, if I see a YouTuber, I'm like, oh yeah, now I'm I'm going to go right up and I'm just going to say hi. It's just it's something different about it. I felt yeah. that's cuz you you view yourself as a peer in that sense. Like you're a YouTuber also and you know, you you know what each other go through. There's some relation um life lines. Maybe. May maybe. I think it depends on the demos too. How old are you? Uh, 32. Yeah, so you know, uh if you're in an environment that skews younger, then yeah, that's probably going to be the case. If you're in a upscale restaurant or something like that with older folks, you know, that's that's not going to be the case, right? So, sure. So, it just depends on your demos. But, yeah, it's uh things can get weird for people. You know, I'll tell Holly Holm, you know, the UFC fighter. Yeah. She stands out, big, strong, tall, long blonde hair. You know, she's kind of the pride and joy of Albuquerque, but she would like pull up somewhere in her car and some guy would come running up and masturbate in front of her or you know, people would slide pictures under the uh the stalls in the bathroom to have her try to sign them or interrupt her dinner and you know, uh eventually that's going to wear on somebody like that, you know. So, it's uh there's there's levels to it, depends where you are, where you're not. And then for me, like in Albuquerque, it's like, okay, if I'm at the store and somebody's like, hey Bo or whatever, then I have to roll through my Rolodex. I'm like, is it one of my 20,000 patients that I'm supposed to know Yeah. or somebody that's just watched me on Facebook or YouTube or something. So, and then me rolling through the Rolodex may look like I'm not interested in talking to them, so now I'm a jerk or something, you know, and now you've offended somebody who their only interaction with you their entire life was a negative one. And that's obviously not a good thing. I think it's because the beard is so recognizable. That's the thing. How much How much of this was just purely for uh just just the branding? You can't stop me. Yeah. Is it? Yeah, absolutely. Um the All Blacks you know, I'm you make yourself a meme at some point, right? You're like, "Hey, there's I've noticed that the same shirt, the beard, the red hammer. Yeah. Yeah, he's made himself into a meme. Well, I have a really weak jawline. Okay. So, that was like one of the thing I'm like, "Well, if I can get enough, you know, hair growth here, I can make it look like I'm a Disney villain." People are like, "You look like Dan Bilzerian, man." You You kind of look like Alex Hormozi, too, you know, Alex Hormozi? You You also have the hairline, too. You know? Yeah, you have You have the immaculate hairline of Hormozi. Uh But, he doesn't really have the that that sort of beard. Right. Yeah, okay. This Jafar chin-looking beard. Okay, sure. Yeah. Hit things with it or something. Stab things. Yeah, so definitely stands out. So, that is definitely by intent. And then we we talk sometimes we're like, you know, maybe I should just shave clean and shave my head. And just the amount of comments and things. But, then you're not recognizable, right? Where are you investing? Oh, boy. Um so, I just invested in uh our version of the naprapathic school that's coming to Nevada. So, we're going to be opening a school here to teach kind of what we do. Cool. Um so, any any in a school, which is a unique investment. So, that's my most recent. And it's, you know, 5 10 year, probably. Sure. Um I did, you know, probably like you I did a lot of short selling early in the in the 2020 recession in the stock market. And just everybody made out like gangbusters. So, it wasn't because I was a good investor. It was cuz I knew it was coming back, right? Got some crypto. Uh more than I probably should at this point. Really? Luckily, I wasn't in the loop about, but you know, Would you buy Bitcoin, Ethereum, anything crazy? Okay. have staked ether for the most part. Staked? Uh a lot of it, yeah. Are you ever worried You ever worried that uh it might not ever unstake? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so worried about that. Yes. So, for the Yes. No, nothing. So, for those who don't know, basically smarter than me. Yeah, so basically with Ethereum, you could you could stake your Ethereum on the blockchain. And it basically will help facilitate transactions. but and in doing so you'll get paid. What's the interest rate? Like 6%? Yeah. Oh, as more people stake basically the less they need to pay out to keep the stakes. or something now. Yeah, so I mean the the mindset for a lot of people is that if you're not planning to sell it anyway, you may as well stake it and get 3% because you weren't planning to sell. But you can't unstake it until Ethereum 2.0 comes out which has been every single year since like 2018, I believe. Um It's been promised every year. Yeah, been promised every year. So I'm in this belief where it's like they they said last year it's like oh, 2022 the end of 2022 probably by 2023. It might it like I get so worried that that money just you don't know. I mean it could be 10 years from now, 15 years and what if you need the money? I I I think there are ways that you could sell. Mhm. Uh but you lose a significant amount of value in the process. Which makes sense. Yeah. So yeah, I mean the I'm hope I'm long really with crypto I'm long-term investing. At least till the next having cycle or whatever. So I'm trying to put things in different ranges, right? So like say a school is 10 and some real estate might be 20. Um so I'm trying to tinker some of my returns over different periods of time. You know, long-term obviously tax write-off investing in SEPTs and 401Ks is even further than that. So what I've been really trying to do is hit all those single boxes. So yeah, I do real estate, uh school, crypto, stocks. But the number one thing I invest in is my own business, you know. So if if I have extra money, it's going to be going into opening a new location, buying new equipment. So the stuff that can help to A make you more money and B create more jobs and C create more people without pain. Yeah. So for the school, um how how big is the school that you're planning to to build? So what we're So we're partnering with a medical university here. So I'm not going to say who they are yet because we still need to finalize it. But so the first accredited naturopathic school is in Santa Fe, New Mexico. So, naprapathy is only licensed in two states right now. So, we're in Illinois and New Mexico under the medical board in New Mexico. And what we're trying to do is take it nationwide all 50 states. So, what that requires is money for lobbying. We've got to get in with the politicians in each and every state. So, we're looking to, like I said, license here hopefully within the next year for naprapaths and you know, quite frankly, the school has to pay gross receipts and state income tax in New Mexico. So, Nevada seems like a much better place for a corporate headquarters for it. It's going to be easier to get students here for it as well than Santa Fe, New Mexico, which is, you know, an hour from the airport. And in New Mexico, you know, this is the center of everybody comes through Vegas. So, we've got, I think, 38 students right now and the goal would be to get to 200 to 300 within the next 5 years. Wow. And we're also going to expand into Florida next. So, the states that um yeah, the accreditation allows cuz there's a bunch of different processes, right? You have to go through accreditation for federal student loans. You have to go through licensing for schools. Then you have to go through medical licensing so that people can have a practice act. And each one of those things requires a lot of lobbying, a lot of finance, a lot of lawyers. And so, um really, like I said, we're trying to go all in and expand it and then create this profession that sort of straddles the in between between, you know, physical therapy and chiro and massage and sort of takes the best aspects of all those and then combines them into one. Got it. So, you reached out to me like uh when was it? About 2 weeks ago. Yeah. What prompted you to reach out then? Is it the fight? I think, yeah. The boxing match? Okay. Yeah. Now now I'm a pro fighter. So, now I now I could get in that way. There you go. So, so now we have another pro fighter on on our uh patient rolls. That's really cool. And what what's your plan to do with me? Cuz I I've seen the videos. I don't know if you're going to be doing the hammer or like the the neck. What did you have in mind? I was probably going to sell you some crack on the internet. So. Okay. All right. Well, Jackie, you you were looking for that earlier, right? I'll take some, too, actually. There we go. We've got a second buyer. We've got third? Of course. I There it is. Yeah. Yeah, so we were I was coming back through Vegas and I saw that you had moved here cuz I definitely watch a lot of your content as well. So I was like, yeah, that that seems like a good fit. He's a he's he just got into a boxing match, I'm assuming his neck is probably pretty tight. It's always tight. It's always I always say I'm I'm really uptight in my like upper back and then I have flat feet, so my lower back when I stand too much also hurts. Did you say you've never been adjusted before? Never been adjusted. Let me tell you the first time my neck was adjusted it was I I'm so excited to see Graham get adjusted and I don't know when he's posting the video, but if he posts it we'll link it down below because it's going to be a sight to see. So I I've seen the one where you did you did the thing and they the the neck range and you had her like move her neck and then you cracked it and she could like move her neck all the way around like the exorcist person. Right. Are you going to do that to me? Yeah, probably. Really? Yeah. Wow. you feel? Uh nervous and excited. That sounds like the right emotions. Cuz I yeah, I hate pain obviously, but uh you know, I I'm more scared than like There's people that don't hate it obviously. Scared. I'm just like There's stores where they have It just see It just seems like uh it's like spooky. I don't know, probably. Looking at the stores that I'm driving by and I'm like, hmm. Well. I got a funny chiropractor story. So I've never been adjusted, but I have been like rubbed, you know how they like rub your muscles really hard? I had an IT band injury back like junior year of high school and I went in I actually went to the emergency room first and I got x-rays cuz I thought I broke something. Mhm. Turns out I didn't, they sent me to the chiropractor and they like rubbed my my IT band a bunch. One of the most excruciating pains I've ever felt in my entire life. That wasn't an adjustment or anything, but then afterwards, after this like huge probably took like 20 minutes of rubbing, terrible, they sent me to this other room and they attached these little stickers to my leg from like my hip all the way down to my ankle. And these stickers send electrical impulses to your leg to like shock it to stimulate the muscles and to get blood flowing. It was like yeah, like seizing up and convulsing and stuff like that. And then they wrapped it in this huge like freezing pack wrap. So my entire leg was like all casted up basically from the hip all the way to the ankle. And this guy spent let's say like 15 minutes getting it all ready. And then he left the room and immediately once he left the room, I looked and it was the wrong leg. No, no. No way. notice it was the wrong leg? It was just the wrong leg. No, yeah. That he set this entire He like he rubbed out the right one cuz it was incredibly painful. But as soon as he sent me to the room for these wraps and everything, just the wrong leg. And Was it Was it a different person doing the wraps or was it the same person? was the same person. And I And I was like excuse me. Was this in Vegas? No, this is SoCal. Yeah, and I was I remember I kept trying to call out from like I was like lying down. My leg was getting shocked. I was like excuse me, please come back. And they just kept going. Oh, no. And then it was the most awkward thing that I've been deliberating in my head. I'm like do I tell him so he can do it to the right leg or do I just leave and act like it didn't happen? And then they came in after I did the whole treatment. It was like 20 minutes or 15 minutes or whatever. They came back and excuse me, I'm so sorry but you did the wrong leg. And it was just like a total facepalm moment. It was It was yeah, something. So they They They did it. Yeah, they put it on the right leg and through probably four sessions of just like intense rubbing and everything like that and the shocking, it actually fixed it. Yeah, terribly painful but I did the injury for like two months so it was pretty bad. Yeah, I've had I've had IT band syndrome. It's brutal. Terrible. Yeah, starts out in the upper thigh and then it just moves down to the knee. And that's where it really was. I was 5K-ing for a while, I had that and then they had to get in there and break it up and Mine was I was a runner too. Yeah. Yeah. Not fun at all but it works. Yeah, it's it's crazy that you say that. So if you anybody's ever So, some of our rotations we actually go and watch surgeries. Um and then, you know, I'm I'm friends with a lot of orthopedic surgeons, so they'll let me sit in because we do cadavers in school, but we don't watch surgeries. So, for us to have a better idea of what our our surgical friends are doing, it's really cool to be able to go in there and watch orthopedic surgeries and things like that to watch the tissue in real life and in the joint. But, every time there's a procedure, I think I don't know how many have to come in. Several doctors have to come in and mark the leg, and they mark it over and over again because obviously this has happened so many times over the history of, you know, surgical procedures. And, you know, shocking the wrong leg is annoying, but it's not the same as like doing an ACL graft or something on the wrong leg, right? Or or God forbid an amputation or something like that. they amputated the wrong foot. Oh, man. Many times, right? So, they they really go overboard now because of the the consequences of that. And the lawsuit probably just be Yeah, oh gosh, yeah. But, I mean, yeah, you you see the, you know, people And again, they're humans, right? But, you know, they'll leave a sponge in or they'll leave a scissors or something. I mean, it's inside? Yeah, it's happened, you know. Um Yeah, I've seen so many YouTube videos where like the the mystery illness where they get really sick all of a sudden. They don't know what it is, and, you know, they're at the brink of death, and then it turns out that like the doctor left the sponge in 10 years ago, and it got infected over time or it dissolved and like Wow. crazy things. Uh there's some I've even seen where they've left, yeah, like you mentioned equipment in there. So, um yeah. You know, so we're we're supposed to learn from our mistakes, and so obviously the the more time goes on, the more precautionary procedures, the more people come in and check and all those kind of things cuz they're humans, right? Just like everybody. So, they they make mistakes. Unfortunately, the consequences Some people you can't just have mistakes, right? Like the gardener, he he trimmed the wrong, you know, hedges or something. Like you can't have a pilot that didn't land the plane, you know? So, depending on the consequences of the procedure, like there's just you have to double, triple, quadruple check Yeah. those things. If they my ice cream sundae wrong, it's not that serious, right? this wasn't a big deal. I I was just nervous cuz I didn't want to be I felt bad cuz my god, you spent all this time wrapping my leg and like And you didn't at any point say that's the You didn't speak up a little bit more? They comped your visit at least. Oh, they were just talking. Did they at least comp your visit and give it to you for free? No. No, I still paid. I honestly like it wasn't a terrible feeling. It's kind of a unique sensation. I wouldn't call it pleasurable, but like getting shocked and the cold sensation and you know, whatever. It wasn't bad. So like in our office, like you know, our motto is results matter. So if if there's somebody that we can't help, like I have to send them like most people I know right away. Like I'm like, "No, man, you need back surgery. Let's link you up with somebody." Um you know, or or whatever we're going to refer them out to. Or if I do a full treatment on them and nothing has changed at all, it's very rare that I'm going to find something cuz I spent an hour with everybody, right? That that magically I'm going to have a breakthrough on the fourth session or something. So we're we if we don't get the changes at least 50, 75% that we're looking for, we we comp the visit. Like we don't To me it's like you have a steak and they mess it up, right? You would expect for it to be free or them to replace it. Yeah. You know, health care is the only thing that they can sort of mess it up and then just still charge you for it, you know? Um you know, if their car was damaged, you could take it back or something like that. Right. So it's something that's always bothered me about health care is that where something doesn't work, right? You get a surgical procedure done or a medication or whatever. Like why why why am I not getting my money back? It didn't work. Mhm. Um That's good take. You know, whether no matter what it is. Like, "Oh, it's a $10,000 stem cell therapy or something." You're like, "Okay, cool." And then you get it done and you're like, "Yeah, I don't feel any better." And like, "Tough." You know? There's there's no other fields that you would your product would fail on you that you wouldn't you know, be able to send it back or get a refund or something. And so that's something we've, you know, we've always tried to incorporate is that this is a customer-based and like I said, provider-based. So their feedback is what matters. If they don't think they're better, then they're not, right? Yeah. So it doesn't matter what I think. You know what I absolutely hate about health care? Not to get into it, but um I hate how you can never know what something is going to cost. Yeah. why can't I go in and just Yeah, why can't I go in and just be You know, they tell me I need this. And then I'm like, well, how much is it going to cost? And then they they don't tell you. Like, I I don't know. Why would you Do you I I know chiropractic is a little bit different. Um, but do you know why there's there's such a such a fog, I guess, in the field in in terms of pricing? So, so chiro can be different, and sometimes it's not. It depends on the provider, how much insurance they're taking, or, you know, if they're doing personal injury or whatever. There's a couple components. One is that there's a social stigma about doctors talking and inter- is talking about money for their patients. Um, even though you take an oath to do no harm, that also means do no financial harm. So, you should always try to find the you know, the the most affordable care for them as well. Mhm. Um, unless there's an alternative, right? So, they'll they'll just kind of pass you off, and you have to deal with the front desk staff, whose job is to be the pitbull and to fight for the money. And I I I just don't think that that's a an acceptable situation, because the front desk person doesn't know the medical procedures. They don't know the terminology. So, you're you're really creating a barrier, and I I I I just think it's a a cultural stigma that doctors don't deal with that kind of stuff. And you can ask a doctor, and they'll they'll basically never tell you. You know, this Oh, I don't depends what your insurance will cover. Oh, the front desk will, you know, it's an uncomfortable conversation. And maybe it has to do with the fact that you're dealing with a person's body, Yes, I I can see that. Yeah. on their body parts. that. They don't I need a liver. Well, you know, that Well, our liver is uh $750,000 if you want that. But, we have a deal going on right now. If you get uh the the pig liver instead, $150,000 on this one. It's experimental. Uh, or yeah, it's it's so weird. But, but I think Offer expires. You got to see us next 5 minutes, though. But, I think people deserve that transparency, right? Because the fact of the matter is it is a financial decision. You you making financial decisions. It's the number one cause of bankruptcy, right? So, people are going bankrupt, they're getting this huge bill in the back of the mail, they can't contact people, they're sent to collections, and they didn't even know what the procedure would be. They don't know what in in in network or out of network means, they don't know what co- they don't even know what co-pays mean. You know, they're like, "Oh, I have insurance." And then they assume they're going to be covered, and they get a $40,000 bill. We need to do better in all of health care. So, in our business, our prices are right there on the website, right? There's never going to be an upcharge, downcharge, this is what it is. If you want shockwave therapy, it's $40 for 30 minutes. Right? If you're getting orthotherapy, it's going to be $90 for an hour. That's what it is, period. If you're getting just a spinal alignment, it's $40. Um so, people our patients know what the price is, and then, you know, after my first session, whether I charge them or I don't, we say, "I think this is going to be about four sessions, five sessions." Whatever that's going to be, and then we target that. So, we don't obviously take the money up front, but they have an idea if they want to keep going forward what this is going to cost. It's going to be $360 for us to resolve. Yes. Right? And if along the way this isn't working for you, then we send you somewhere else. Yeah. But then they go there, and they go to some outpatient PT, and it turns out their deductible is 6,000, and they get a you know, a $500 bill on their first visit that's just an eval. And then they're like, "Well, why did you send me there?" I'm like, "Well, that's the care you need." But they they're out $500 with no improvement. And it's not the PT's fault necessarily, maybe it's the organization, but you know, I think as health care in general, we need to do a much better job with transparency financially for people, especially given what the cost to our economy is financially from health care. Yeah. Why is so much medical care so expensive though? Because my understanding is that they just bill really high, expecting the insurance company to negotiate it down, and like that's the only reason why. Well, there's a there's a lot of components to that. So, the one thing you mentioned right off the bat, there's a middleman, an intermediary, and they have a lot of salaries to pay for along the way as well. So, an insurance company is designed to be profitable, even though they're really not, they're subsidized a lot by the government. Um but they have a lot of admin they've got to pay, and they've got a lot of people that are making phone calls they've got to pay, so there's a lot of leak in the finances that goes along there as well. That's one component. Right, the other component is you're dealing with So, think about what it would cost to run a hospital. Imagine what the electricity bill is, you know, uh your your liability insurance just for slip and fall, you what you're you're paying your entire staff everywhere, and then you add the litigiousness of the healthcare system as well to where when people sue hospitals or large industries, it's better for them to just settle than to take this all the way to court or damage their public opinion. You know, for small providers like us, we'll just bankrupt the company and start over again. We're not going to deal with that. But, if you're a large hospital or something like that, you're just going to basically pay people to go away or shut up and sign an NDA. So, that cost is passed back on as well, whether that's it should have been settled or it shouldn't. I'm not there to decide that, but that's a cost. They'll they'll argue that R&D is a big part of that as well, that it costs a lot of money to come up with a surgical screw or it costs a lot of money to find the right titanium blend or the cost to develop a drug. Um so, that money should be built back into the equation well, and I'm not sure they're wrong necessarily. I'm a devoted capitalist in general, but I think there's a couple places where socialism is a better fit. And to me, I think that's actually for healthcare that people have to have, and I think for education. I I don't think that unfettered capitalism um in those two areas that make society better is the best idea. That, you know, a college could just keep running up the tab and it cost you a million dollars a year with no guarantee that this degree will lead you anywhere. Um and then it's just between you and the federal government. You know, I I I think healthcare is another thing that that You don't have You're not entitled to somebody else's labor or time, which is sort of what healthcare is, right? These doctors went to school for 12 13 years, so they should be compensated, but I think this the problem is cyclical. So, here here let me let me rewind this all the way back. So, they're just expanding this now. So, going back to medical school, they can expand more medical students. They don't, like nurses, like they can't get into nursing school even though we have a shortage. Um so, there's Medicare pays for residency placements. They pay salaries for residency placements. Medicare doesn't have a ton of money, right? It's essentially bankrupt. There's not a lot of money there. So, they're paying the salaries for the resident doctors that are making 50-70 grand a year. So, they can't expand more spaces even though our population is growing. So, these medical students graduate med school and now there's no places for them to match into residency. So, because of that, the medical schools don't want a ton of graduates graduating that can't get placed into residency and sitting there. So, they're going to have to cap how many students they're bringing in as well. Well, with inflation and you know, some of these medical schools are for-profit out there. Uh they're going to jack the tuition up um to make up the difference because they're not able to increase the amount of students that they get in. So, it's kind of bottlenecked on the on the far end, you know, from the residency placing programs as well. So, now these doctors are coming out with three, four hundred thousand dollars. I think the average is like three hundred thousand, I think, in student loan debt now at what, six point something percent interest? Um that they have to start paying even though they're making minimum wage or less essentially as a resident. Um and that's going to influence some people's behaviors. Wow. You know, even chiros. Like, so I refer out for all imaging, but some chiros have an x-ray machine in their office, right? So, you have to pay for the machine, you've got to pay for the OSHA, you got to get lead in the wall, all this other stuff. So, if your patient if you're on the fence if your patient needs an x-ray or not, do you want the bias that you're having to pay for your x-ray machine to be factored into your decision-making? Cuz I'm not sure how many humans could completely separate those two things from each other. Right? They have medical debt, they have kids in school, you know, I I I I think as much as you'd like to think that every single person would always make the ethical decision. I don't think that's reasonable Mhm. to expect out of every single person. So, when you saddle doctors with three, four hundred thousand dollars of student loan debt, like I think that incentivizes certain types of behaviors. I think it pushes them to types of procedures that are cash-based, whether they're Botox or, you know, stuff like that. And away from Medicaid paying for family doctors or for pediatricians or people like that. What's the solution to that? It just seems like uh maybe the Canadian system is a little bit better where they have higher taxes, but health care is available to anybody on a on you know, first-come, first-serve basis. Is there something that you would suggest that might make it better? I don't know. I think just like anything, if there was an easy solution, we'd have it. Like is there an easy solution to immigration? No, you can see both sides. So, I think I think for wealthier people, there's no better place in the world you can get healthcare than the United States of America. You know, in Canada, you know, if if you want something outside the system, uh you're going to have to wait a really long time. Yeah. You know, also Canada is a significantly much less demographically diverse country, uh economically and ethnically, and religiously. So, I think those countries that have small populations and lots of money, they're able to do things that bigger countries like the United States or Brazil can't do. You know, New Zealand and Canada and some of these places, Norway that we compare, I mean, you're talking about you know, small countries, low population, homogeneous, very wealthy. You know, you don't see areas like Detroit or New Orleans or Baltimore or even Albuquerque in Norway or New Zealand. You don't have that wealth disparity. There's a lot of people that fall into those categories, and how do you take care of them? Again, I I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. I think the best innovation and technology and all those things come from the United States for the most part. Some of that is because of capitalism. We incentivize researchers to create, you know, brand new uh robotic surgeries or medications or things like that because capitalism is incentive by nature, right? Like you you're going to fight for the best product. But there's a downside to it. What's a better solution? I don't know. Like democracy has problems, right? Do we think that the most amount of people should be making decisions? I mean, that's sort of how the the Salem witch trials happened, and that's how, you know, a lot of the horrible things in history have happened because more people said that it was okay. Right. Uh but what's a better system than that? I don't know. Nobody's come up with a better one. So, I don't know. I we need reform, and then and and it could be that you fix one thing and it creates a leak somewhere else, and most things tend to be that way. That the best-laid plans don't work. I just know that in a country this wealthy, we shouldn't have as many people going bankrupt over their bodies or their health care. Now, circle back around, you could say, "Hey, we don't take care of ourselves very well, either. So, we're you know, 70% obese. So, we're paying a lot of money for lifestyle medicine, for diabetes care, for you know, people like me that eat a lot of processed food that ended up with ulcerative colitis that I have to take a medication every month." You know, we're just we make a lot of bad decisions, and that might be a byproduct of our American-ness of wanting to do what we want, of having lots of money to where we can smoke e-cigs all day or you know, whatever that is that we know is bad for us, but we still do it. Um that we end up having to pay for those lifestyle behaviors and activities down the road. Right. I don't know. Like we we should know better, but we still smoke, we still gamble, we you know, as a society we still make things and decisions that that are harmful for us, that um that are going to cost us down the line. So, then what is it? We authoritatively don't let people do those things? And a freedom is important, too, right? Like freedom to choose what you want to do with your health care, I think is really important. Um you know, in in in EBM or evidence-based medicine, there's three components. There's literature, there's the clinician's, you know, intent or or recommendation, and there's the patient's willingness to be a part of that. So, if the patient doesn't want to do it, it's not EBM. Mhm. So, they have to be part of that. They have to buy into the treatment, they have to buy into whatever it is, which requires freedom. Do we force people to eat certain types of food because we know it saves us money as a country? I think it's a very slippery slope to go down. That's really interesting. That was really well said. I didn't expect that like that good of an answer. I agree. I I agree completely. I Oh my gosh. Like what do I want to say? Like I agree with Yeah, like what can I say? The only problem is yes. Yes. I mean I agree. Uh I do see though that we are making progress in that in terms of like getting sodas out of elementary schools or putting water and just healthy uh healthier alternatives. Uh I know I remember it was it was a huge thing when McDonald's was starting to serve like salads and fruits instead of fries and things like that that I think are at least setting us on the right trajectory. Yeah, but I I don't think So, a lot of these things I think they've pulled back away from over time because they're just not popular and um we incentivize I mean, even just look at a fast foods structure of how they make money. They make money selling large sodas, right? Like so, they they offer you it it doesn't make sense that you could get 10 15 chicken nuggets for 99 cents. They're losing money there. They have to pay for the real estate, they have to pay for all the people working there, their insurance, the cost to ship the chicken there, the actual chicken themselves. How how would that ever be possible to sell that much food for 99 cents? Well, a couple things, right? Real estate is their business for one and two, they're they're making a bunch of money on cheap foods like fries and drinks. That's what the business model is predicated on a lot of those businesses. So, either the business folds or that's the food they keep giving. So, we have this idea of food deserts and and places like that where people it's expensive to buy a salad. Um some of that's caused by the the economics of it that wealthier people tend to be skinnier and more health conscious cuz they can. Right? If you're not working two jobs and taking care of kids by yourself, you have the luxury of spending time in the gym or spending time, you know, finding healthier foods. So, there's an economic component to it as well. We always blame people for being fat or whatever, but also like Is it because I've also heard that uh and I've seen breakdowns on how healthier foods could actually cost less than eating at fast food restaurants assuming you're able to buy those foods in bulk and just spend 20 minutes every few days cooking in bulk. Yeah, it it makes sense. You should be able to. And I think that like we just said like wealthy people are willing to pay more for it, right? Right. So, they can they can charge more cuz capitalism will allow that. It's like the argument about like veganism. Like on average, vegans are healthier than non-vegans, correct? Everybody's kind of looked at the data, longevity, heart disease. Yeah. Is it because they're vegan? Maybe, but also you have to take into account the fact of they're a vegan means they're probably not eating processed foods, they're probably not smokers because they're health conscious by nature. They probably exercise a lot. Their BMI is lower. There's so many other factors that we could just say it was this one thing or this one thing, but everything is multifactorial. Mhm. So, what we're talking about is demos, income, conditioning, uh marketing, what's been marketed to you, uh Basically, these companies for sure make food addicting, right? Like it's in their best interest to have colors. Did you see the second um the Super Size Me guy? Oh, uh The second one where he made the healthy chicken restaurant? I saw the first Super Size Me. I forget what it What was his name? Anyway. I can't remember. Yeah. The second one basically what he does is he he shows you the industry of fooling people into thinking they're getting healthy food. So, he would buy free-range chickens, which these are all legal terms. So, in in this movie, free-range just meant that like the end of the container Oh, it's so BS. Yeah. had to have like a little thing that got sunlight like 2% of the time. Yeah, I I think a lot of those were like they could turn around in their cage. Well, like that was free-range. It's so sad. So, he would think of them on a farm just like with like one caretaker like uh it's bad. Yeah. So, his whole business is he creates a fried chicken restaurant that is able to market in a way that's healthy. So, instead of calling it fried, it's it's like uh grilled crispy or something like that. And they actually physically put like grill like pink grill marks onto the fried chicken. And then the interior part they put like you know, pretty green and vegetables everywhere, but there's actually not any vegetables on the food. gosh. just use all the words and terminology, free-range, organic, da da da da da. So, he gets a lawyer to help him. He's like, "Oh, yeah, this is organic, da da da this and this and this." And uh no steroids and it it's through a certain time period. And basically, he creates this like really unhealthy food, but it's super easy to trick everybody into thinking it's a it's a healthy food product by using all the buzzwords. Wait, so for the steroids, when they say it's steroid-free, you could technically say it's steroid-free if you didn't give it steroids within a certain time frame? I'm not sure about that. Yeah. There there there was something to do with that that Just like everything, there's a legal definition and you're like, "Okay, well, Well, income, that's not income." or or whatever, right? So, the smartest people are always going to find those loopholes and figure out ways to work around those words. But, essentially, almost all health health care products are sort of doing that as well. They find words that people associate with health, which also explains why when you go to a Whole Foods or something like the way that people look isn't much different than they do at, I don't know, Kroger or something, right? Yeah. It feels more open and happier, and there's produce over here or whatever, but like if you look at the nutritional info on some of these products, it's really not any different. It's just they they found a way to market in a way um which is why I don't think we've made much progress. I mean, if you look at the data, you know, like you were saying, "Okay, we've got some apples or salads or whatever." It just doesn't the data doesn't really show that over a long period of time. What do you think it's going to take to move us in that direction? Or do you think it's just people are going to be people? If something tastes good, they're going to do it. I think you have both, right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you can legislate your way to behavior overall. I think you could put up blocks in some ways, you know? But, I don't know. I mean, the thing is we all say we're going to die, but nobody lives their life that way, right? Uh we sort of know that, but we don't really live that way. It's hard for us because we've always been alive in our own minds. Like, what were you doing before you were born? I don't know. What are you going to do when you're dead? I can't even imagine it. All I know is my my world view, my life experience. It's like imagine a color you've never seen before. Right. You can't. Mhm. So, we just sort of move along through what we call time space. We're just kind of gliding, and um things start accumulating. Injuries, health problems, and things like that. And then, we're always going to get to it. Or, you know, Homo sapiens are procrastinators by nature. We're energy preservers. So, it seems to me that what we're seeing now is everybody sort of has access to be unhealthy, and a select few people, whether it's neuroticism or the way they were raised, sort of just don't want to be that, and they're choosing not to, and they're doing things to not do that. But, it's it it's obviously very difficult. If if it was easy, everybody would be shredded with a the Um you know, like when COVID was going on everybody's like, "Oh, obesity is killing all these people and da da da da da." And it's like you don't think people that are overweight know they're overweight. They're aware. They know that they should lose weight, but what what can they do to do something about it? They've tried. I promise you they've tried. You know, sometimes it's the early stages. I think a lot of it is as a child. You know, I was pretty lean until I got to college and then I really started to put on weight to try to play linebacker and I gained a lot of fat. And I kind of got a set weight of about 220. So, I created a bunch of new fat cells and when you create fat cells they don't really go away. They they fill up or or shrink down with fatty acids. Um, so it takes a lot of energy to create new fat cells. So, if you've never been fat it takes a lot of energy to get there, but once you've already been heavy it's very easy to get back to your set weight. So, for years I'd stayed under 200 lb and all it takes is just eating sort of normal foods that everybody else does. But the my body will just take those those calories and shove them right back into my fat cells and I'll gain six 7 lb back in a week, which you wouldn't think is physically possible. You definitely couldn't create new fat cells in that amount of time, but your body can reload the cells you already have, which is why, you know, you see people have to get ga- gastric bypass or um, you know, fat removal procedures. And for somebody that's never lived that experience they just like like why can't you do it? Which is why it's important to never do it to begin with, but you know, it's easier said than done. If you're an 8-year-old and you know, like you said you've got a single parent and this is the food you have and your friends are eating this food, that's all you know. You know, there's a reason why we speak English. There's a reason why people are the religion they are. They they were taught that. That's what they were ingrained with as a child. And by the time you're 14 if you've already had that weight, how are you supposed to overcome that? I mean, it would take the most crazy discipline. And some people can do it, but most of us can't. Most of us are like this with everything, whether it's finances or health. Like we can go in waves. We'll be really good for a while, but very few people have the the ability to stay that way all the time. do you stick with it? If I had the answer I wouldn't look like this, you know. Um, I've done it So, for me it's like if I do a bodybuilding show or if I have a photo shoot, I have to have like a public embarrassment like thing, or I have to take my shirt off somewhere. There has to be a secondary incentive for me to do it. Okay. So, I've done I've competed in physique a few times, and if I know I have to be on stage or compete, then I will be super rigid. But, if not, then I just keep procrastinating. I'm like, "Oh, I do need to lose weight." And I'll I'll get after it for a couple weeks, and then I'll go on the road and eat again, and then it'll just be right back. Um and this is somebody who's cognitively aware of the habits, the behaviors, the I I know exactly how to do it. I've done it before, and I still don't even do it. How much does age uh play a factor in that? I've noticed for myself, uh like let's say slimming down, a lot. I have just I've been working out since January four to five times a week, and eating so clean, Mhm. and I still got the belly. It's shrunk a little bit, but I remember myself at 25, that would be gone within 3 months. Yep. So, I mean, there's a genetic component as well, but obviously the older we get, the less growth hormone, the less testosterone we we create. If you're a female, you don't have much of that anyway, so you have even less wiggle room. Um the the taller and bigger you are, the more your basal metabolic rate is up. You know, to maintain your basal metabolic rate. But, those all drop off as well. So, as you've noticed, like when I was younger and I would exercise, I would just throw a salad and one meal a day, and I would drop the weight. That doesn't work at all anymore, you know. That's just to keep me from getting even bigger. So, it's it's big, you know, it's big. And um you know, stomachs shrink and and grow, and you know, we even think that there might even be up-regulating and down-regulating for certain people with insulin and glucagon and things like that, to where their body's so used something their cells will actually crave it, and they'll make you want to get certain types of foods. Um the the truth is, nutritional science is really soft. We just we just don't know. Yeah. Like the baseline is calories in, calories out. But, everybody falls in a spectrum somewhere different. Some people are allergic to gluten. Some people, you know, have other types of food allergies. And what you see, of course, in our social media era is what whatever's is most extreme gets the most clicks. So, you'll go vegan, you'll go carnivore, you'll go fasting. All those things work temporarily. Like when you only eat meat, you don't have glycogen or water to put into your cells, and so you're going to lose water weight like pretty quickly. You'll look better in the short term, but as soon as you add carbs, they'll shuttle water back into your cells, and you'll blow right back up. Let's explain this to me cuz I've seen this carnivore diet. It seems like it's the new trend for like the last month. Joe Rogan just tried it. Can you explain what that is? I'm not Yeah, so people are only eating meat and meat products alone. Like no salads, no vegetables, just meat. Yeah. So it'd be one thing to say, "Hey, no processed carbohydrates or something like that." And And their argument, like Liver King is doing this and uh there's a couple of physicians that are doing it too. I think Peter Attia and Saladino maybe or something too. And they're they're doing things off of an evolutionary basis. They're saying plants are designed to fight you off. Like they're poisonous and they're toxic and they create toxins and things to keep you from eating them. And they're sort of right in the sense, but like all the vegetables we have now didn't even exist a thousand years ago. Like we bred them ourselves. Like there was no kale, there was no broccoli a thousand years ago. We actually, as humans, we created food species and types for ourselves to feed masses. So since the age of recorded history, we've been a grain society. Before that, we definitely were just hunter-gatherers. We'd eat berries and nuts and but basically since written language, you know, grains were what created civilization. Rice, wheat, they created so much food that people could live in these river plain systems, and then you could get specialization, right? You'd have bankers and people who And with bankers, you need to write things down, so we have language so people can keep track of their finances and who owes who what. And then you can get metallurgy and you can get all these other things because you're not just chasing buffalos all the time. So we really have eaten grain for at least five thousand years to a certain extent. Now that was a bleached flour, and probably not, right? But the the vegetables and things we've eat well, bell peppers, we've bred those things over the last thousand years. So I would argue that that's not true for those things. Those things have high nutritional con- content. We've actually, like I said, created them for our usage. You go in the woods, you're not going to find anything edible. We can't digest cellulose. So we actually have to create our own species. Also, we don't have dairy cows in nature. We don't have these types of chickens. We bred these things, just like our dogs, that can't survive in nature. We created our own foods as hominids over the last 5,000 years, especially over the last 200 years. You know, the acceleration of how we breed chickens so that they grow so fast and they have all this meat on their pecs. Their feathers don't even keep up with them. Their legs break, but it's the only way you can feed 9 billion people is by by doing that. So, I guess the long circle back away around, we're obligate omnivores. We have molars, we have canines. We should probably eat some of all those things. We Cholesterol definitely is associated with heart disease. Like we know that for sure. I know a lot of people want to make that argument, but you know, it is a factor. Just like blood pressure, just like all these other things. You can eat a lot of vegetables with low caloric input. So, it can really help people that are hungry. They can eat a ton of vegetables without a lot of calories. Obviously, fats, almonds, things like that are the most calorie dense, followed by fatty meats and and carbs. Um to me, it seems like I would say this. I would say a lot of people they tinker with a higher propensity of one macro group versus the other and see how their body reacts. But I think what you're seeing from people is they're eating only meat and that's what we're saying is like the carbs bring the water in. Steaks and beef and yeah. And we don't know the long-term consequences of that. Like, you know, I guess we'll see in 10 years or so what their lipids look like, but you know, uh It seems unhealthy. I don't know why. Like I've not looked into it at all. It just seems like maybe for a few months you might try it. Yeah. Just a I think it works in the short term. You know, I think you can you know, drop weight in the short term, but I don't think it's a sustainable diet. Just like veganism isn't really sustainable, honestly. Like they're you're missing certain certain micronutrients that you need, you know, uh It's finding your balance. I mean, you've seen everything. There's the zone, there's Atkins, you know. I would say one thing for sure that makes us fat is adding is having carbs and fats together. Like that's probably the worst combination of things that you can have. So, um you know, a donut, cake, stuff like that. So, you have high insulin, high high uh absorption from the sugar, and then high calories, alcohol also. So, sugar and alcohol definitely going to add pounds. So, for people just getting that calories in, calories out, exercising, finding a balance, moderate diet, eat real food, like the less processed the better it's going to be. You know, if it comes in a a bag you rip open, it's probably not the best thing for you. Um but I think the extremism of the you know, those diets my many physicians will say that their concern is there's going to be some serious cardiovascular side effects from having that much saturated fat in your diet. Um the the proponents will say that's not true, that really placking only occurs as due to inflammation, and because people aren't allergic to meat, and to a certain extent they're sort of right. Um you know, we we can pretty much eat any kind of meat as a species. We have the enzymatic capacity to eat any kind of meat. We can't eat any kind of plant. You can't eat bark. You can't eat, you know, any old tree that you see. So, they are right in that sense. We did evolve to eat any kind of meat. We can eat clam, we can eat bugs, we can eat cows, cats. Um in general, eating that will probably have a less inflammatory fact impact than certain types of plants and grains and things. So, their argument is if there's less inflammation, there's less plaque build up, and there may be something to that. They may be right to a certain extent in that sense. I think Jordan Peterson and and his daughter are like carnivore people, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So, you know, I would say what works for every individual matters, but I don't think that's a good diet to put in the the center of the population. Wow. I'm learning so much now. That was crazy. Yeah, I did not think you would be so knowledgeable on that. But I'm very impressed. Yeah, me too. I thought we're going more in the the the cracking direction, and then we did this Totally blown away. insane. If you could pick like one diet or one thing to follow, food pyramid that you believe is the best. It It have to scientifically be the best, that just your own philosophy. I'm just curious what that would be. Uh I'm I'm more on the calories in calories out. So, you know, just looking at your age, your your size, your lean mass, your basal metabolic rate, and just trying to keep your calories under what your, you know, calories in less than what you're expending. Cool. So, you know, try to exercise. And it doesn't, you know, really to me the best cardiovascular exercise is just steady state, you know, walking 20-30 minutes a day. It's sustainable. It's not as hard on your joints as running and jogging, especially if you're a bigger person. Um and typically people aren't so fatigued and tired that they feel the need to go grab something high caloric. So, like me personally, and this is just anecdote, but like when I've done bodybuilding shows and I try to do really high intensity cardio, I would be so fatigued both mentally that I wouldn't have the willpower to resist me having something fatty. Mhm. Um I would just be like, you know, about to faint. And so then I would eat something that I shouldn't have, like a giant scoop of peanut butter, and I basically undid all the work I did. Mhm. So, you have to figure out like what your mental capacity for exhaustion and tiredness is cuz everybody's just different like what they can handle. And figure out where your exercise threshold is for that. So, like for me, I do better with steady state. But also I've been doing a little more interval training lately just just for my cardio, but like actual cardiovascular health, too. Um So, that that's just me. I think most people, you know, again, sleep well, try to keep the light out, move, walk, eat real food, you know, aim for three, four, five, somewhere in there meals a day. Um try to keep your process carbs down, try to keep your your meats leaner and less red meat than otherwise. And they'll argue that, too. They'll say, "Oh, you know, colorectal." But the the studies are there, so I mean eating red meat three, four times a day, some people might be okay, but there is a correlation when you look at the data. Could the correlation be because the people that eat processed meat typically have unhealthy lifestyles as well and smoke and drink? It could be. Yeah. We don't know. We don't have enough data to really say. Um so, I don't think I answered the question. I would say moderation. Calories in, calories out. Yeah, I would I would say that. Eat any real food. Try to exercise some. Do you have any questions for for us? I think I'm I'm that you're not going to ask saving my questions Okay. for you. Cool. So Who's your Who's your Who's your favorite guest on here so far? Bart Kwan? Uh Bart was amazing. I would say Alex Hormozi We all say We all say Alex Hormozi or for me uh Houston from Royalty Exotics. They They were both so good. Houston I didn't expect him to be as as amazing in front of the camera. Like Houston's someone where the camera's on him and he just like lights up and he He's so natural. But Hormozi's the same way, too. Mhm. So I would say either one of those. And then I would say Jennette McCurdy was was another That was That was a big milestone for us to be able to have someone like that on. And uh you know, both of us were nervous cuz we didn't want to screw it up. And uh you know, it went so well. And she was she was amazing. So I would say okay, other than you, what's What's another finance channel that that either you watch or that you would recommend besides your channel? Besides mine, there's so many. Uh I would say the my favorite all-around right now has been Clear Value Tax. And I love I love his demeanor. I love This the There's no editing in his video. It's just him with some papers and he talks for 10 minutes. I love it because it's just like no clickbait, just the facts. And uh I really appreciate that content. I watch all of his videos. So financially, is there an author or something that motivated you more growing up or was it more familial? Uh I just always had an interest in it. Um the book I first ran into though uh my mom had this in her office and I went in there one day and I picked up the book. It's called The Millionaire Next Door. And I read that book at like 10, 11 years old. And that really ingrained in me like, wait a second, millionaires are driving Ford F-150s and Toyota Corollas and like that's cool. And so from the beginning, that's what kind of like set me, I think, on that trajectory of just happening to find that book. But I was interested in personal finance just as a kid, just saving things. And so for me it started with like coin collecting. Like I could save up money and like I could buy this rare coin and just like keep it. So I already had a tendency that like pushed me in that direction. Okay. So what kind of rare rare currency do you have? Cuz I have like a I have a thousand dollar bill. Oh, do you really? bunch of Confederate money. Yeah, so I have Confederate money, too. The thousand dollar bill is something I've always wanted as as a kid and I thought about buying either like a five hundred dollar bill or a thousand dollar bill and framing it. there's a five thousand dollar bill, but there's very few of them in circulation, but I think they're out there. a ten thousand dollar bill that at a normal restaurant? Technically, yes. But they cannot accept legal tender. Right. Right. You wouldn't want to. Yeah. Cuz they're worth more than Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. But technically, yeah, you could go and be like, here's a five hundred dollar bill. They would look at you like you're That would make a great video. It's by the most beat up And just see how they respond. Yeah. But imagine if Dude, you need to do that. But imagine, I my worst fear what would happen to me is they would look at it All right. Okay. Put in the change. All right, I'll give you a hundred back and and there's the video. Like you need them to be like, what what's this? It's fake. And be like, You got to go to somewhere where you know they're not keeping enough change to where they can actually break it for sure, but just to get the reactions cuz they're like, this is fake or whatever. What else do you collect that's Um Gosh, well cars would be the the big one. Um Watches? Well, yeah, I guess watches. I mean, yeah, not a huge collection of watches. Um Pokemon cards, I think I think everyone has gotten into Pokemon cards at at some point. Goosebumps. And then the Goosebumps books that I was showing you over there, I thought that was really cool. Got a lot of Goosebumps. Um I would love to get into collecting art one day. I think that would be a lot of fun. I I My dream it it would be to get like a original Keith Haring. Oh, wow. I think it'd be really cool. That would be cool. So, not at that point yet where I could like cuz even like a little postcard sizes are like fifty thousand dollars, sixty dollars for like a postcard. Geez, Louise. Yeah, and some of these are just like literally a pencil sketch. It just you know, on a on a blank piece of paper and with his name just like scribble on it. Oh, there was one I wanted to bid on. It went way over what I wanted. It was What was it? The Steve Jobs thing. Oh, it was the letter he wrote to his friend at 18 years old. Wow. And that went up at Bonhams auction. And I thought, gosh, that someday is going to be worth a million bucks. And I think it sold for four four or 500,000 dollars. I mean, I thought for 200 grand 250, it's worth it and you could take a risk on that, but like 500,000. I just see like that sort of memorabilia being worth a lot of money. Right. Makes sense. Yeah. Oh, you know what what else sold? So the other comp to that was Steve Jobs' first job application. Ah. Where he filled out his all of his stuff at like, you know, I think it was he was 17 to 20 years old. Hm. And someone kept it. Wow. Yeah. Who'd keep that like them? I don't know, but you know, it's it's out there. Yeah. Then you're like, okay, what what what do people have of mine just in case just in case I ever hit it big. Yeah. So stuff like that I'd I'd love Elon Musk stuff. So like I got the Tesla Roadster, but I would love I don't know, like an early Elon Musk something or other. I I I think collecting just memorabilia, you know. So what do you think about the Twitter acquisition stuff? That'll be interesting to see. I think I think he's so smart. I I the people maybe can't wrap their minds around what he's doing right now. People are just like, oh, he's just manipulating it cuz he's bored. I don't think so. This is not worth his time. Um, but like him selling off a stake in his Tesla, I believed he wanted an excuse to sell it at the peak or what he believes would be a really high valuation. And he sold above a thousand dollars a share. And I think that was genius. And he used it as like, well, the Twitter poll said, so I'm going to do it. And he sold off a huge chunk looking back at a really good price. and he sold now it's 30% lower than that. So he made out well on that. Twitter, I think I think it's a weird acquisition for him, but it could it could mean a lot of influence that could help his narrative. So if he's trying to pass something, I mean to be able to shape someone's perception of politics or different views could be really powerful. And so if to have someone like that take control of Twitter, it's a big responsibility, but it benefit him. Um I I just don't know about like I think he's going to throw the offer, try to negotiate, and if they don't take it, he's going to turn it around on Twitter. It's like, "Hey, like I tried to do my best. You know, it's not worth this. It's probably going to be the bots." He's probably going to say that 10% of the accounts are bots. I didn't know this. Therefore, I'm adjusting my offer this. It's a fair offer. It's above what it's currently trading at. And then if they decline that, then they're the bad guys. So Do you have Twitter stock? No. No. I remember everyone's like, "Oh, it's easy easy to buy it now because he's going to buy it at 54." I'm like, "It's so much could happen that Yeah. I I would be shocked if it closes at 54.20. I think he would nego- he'd be bad if he didn't negotiate it. We'll see what happens. But also, I think his Tesla stock has to do better in the short term. The other thing too is he could be taking some of his equity in Tesla, which could be overvalued, putting it into Twitter at a time where it could be undervalued. So maybe he's trying to mitigate his risk because I think every Not everyone, a lot of people look at Tesla and think, "Oh, you know, how is that compared to Cisco?" Where it's still trading below what it was 20-something years ago. Could that happen to Tesla? I think there's a chance of it happening. And then it's That's the unpopular thing to say. But if Elon sees that or he's concerned about it, makes sense to take a little bit and put it over to Twitter. And at least that's a hedge. And he has a lot of influence with Twitter. Yeah, it's interesting you said that people may not understand him cuz obviously the guy has like genius level intellect and um you know, we were having that conversation with somebody the other day. We were saying um you know, when you look at like a Wechsler Stanford-Binet IQ, which is which is a tool, right? It's not the tool for intelligence, but it's a tool. Um somebody at 140 IQ is the relative difference to an average person as the average person is to somebody at 60. And 60 is what we consider mentally handicapped. And there there are some people with like trisomy 21 or or downs that are in that you know, that range, in that upper 50s, 60s. So, you know, the average person trying to have a finance conversation with somebody with you know, a mental disability is the relative difference between Elon trying to have a conversation with an average person. It's It's They're They're never going to be able to comprehend the nuance or the level of detail that's being applied or discussed there. Yeah. And even I don't know what he is obviously or whatever, but I think it's a fair shake to say he's probably smarter than all of us. Yes. Um so, for us to even try to understand, you know, the the internal machinations or the the long-term projections, um I'm not sure even if he explained it to us that we'd even be able to comprehend it. And there are people that are that far on the the spectrum that we just we we can't even keep up. I would agree with that. And I think he's he's not just the spontaneous person just doing stupid stuff. I think there's a motive behind everything he does. And some of it I do think is self-amusement. I think he honestly just has fun talking about things that he enjoys, Dogecoin probably being one of them. He enjoys the meme, he likes the culture. I think there's a lot of that playing into it, and people look for a meaning behind it where there is none. I think Dogecoin is just something fun. Right. I don't think he's he's sitting back being like, "Ha ha, look, I pumped the price." I don't think he cares. I think he's just having a great time. He's self-amused and uh I I don't think there's any more to it. And I think that at some point if you're at a certain level of of wealth or a certain level of influence, I mean I I think some some nihilism has to creep into a certain extent cuz you're like, "Well, how much further could we even go?" I mean I've reached a point where I've accomplished everybody's goals and what else is there? I mean you try to live forever, try to leave an impact, clean up the oceans, you know, decrease your carbon footprint. It has to be something that's like more meta in a way uh to to make you motivated or to interest you. I mean it's not just a startup company or something like that. The things your dopamine energy response requires so much more stimulation and that's either melting down Twitter or getting in a fight with the SEC or, you know, creating a tunnel company. I mean so this like you said there's some level of amusement in the nihilism, I think, that like you realize and this happens even at the high IQ levels. People realize that like we're all be dead in 60 years, so really nothing matters at all and like somebody's going to have to figure things out and so for some people they just check out. They're like, "Why would I do anything?" you know, and to other people they go, "Oh, there's no pressure because nothing really matters anyway." So I'll just really have a really awesome, you know, kick-ass life. Mhm. And and then you have everybody else that can't imagine that everything is super important and it's like, "Dude, like 99.9% of everybody that's ever lived is already dead, you know? They were having these same conversations about some horrible thing that was happening 800 years ago and it was the end of the world and now nobody is even has record of what they were talking about." And that's that's where we are in this sphere, too. It's important in our lives, but in the grand spectrum, nothing we really do or say sort of matters. And if that's the case, then like let's troll everyone. Let's let's make memes or whatever. Yeah. And I feel like when you're that A level of intellect and B level of wealth, I I can't me having some trolly natures in myself, I can't imagine what I would be like if I was at that level. I think a lot of people would do the exact same thing. Especially I think with the real consequences either, right? for the for for him and the SEC, I find that amusing. I do, too. Cuz he's taunting them and then and the fines for him, so what? Like 10 million bucks? That that would be like a like a a normal person would be like, "Oh, hey, you got to pay me 5 cents right now." And you know, you just pay it just to just to be able to taunt a little bit. I think I think he gets a kick out of that. Yeah, I I agree. So, it's it's entertaining. It makes makes Twitter not as boring as it usually is. It's mostly people just raging at each other about everything. I guess they're raging at him somewhat now, but it's uh to have him not raging back is somewhat interesting. Right. I don't know. I put a lot of faith in him. I have a lot of trust in him. Um Some people don't, but I'm really looking forward to see whatever he does, whether he buys it, if he doesn't. Um it'll be interesting to see. So, do you have Doge? Uh I have a little bit of Doge that I bought a year ago for a video that's down 80%. It was it was one of the videos I did on Dogecoin where I said, "If you like the video, for every like the video gets, I will invest 10 cents into Dogecoin." And how many likes did it have? I don't know. I Isn't there a cap at 10,000? Oh, maybe no, maybe it was maybe what Oh, there was a cap. Yeah, I bought 10,000. I mean, that's so Yeah, so about 10,000. gets X likes, I'll buy 10,000 of Doge. I think it was what it was. Oh, maybe that was it where essentially every like is worth like 10 cents. I I did that. So, you're you're huddling your Yeah, and I and I said, um I'll hold it for a year. Okay. The year's probably been up actually, come to think about it. to sell, are you? Down so much. I mean, at this point I may as well just keep holding it. you can't uh you can't harvest crypto losses at the same extent you can stocks, correct? I don't know if you can harvest crypto against stocks. You can harvest crypto against crypto. So, I could, but like I'm basically at my cost basis or slightly below for Bitcoin. Um I'm basically at my cost basis for Ethereum, so there's not a lot to harvest there. Right. So, you know, I could probably just sell everything and rebuy it back in and at least set everything the same cuz I have some lots I bought way lower and some lots higher, so I could But, if you're were to do that, move to Puerto Rico before you do it, right? Uh, well, for crypto wouldn't Sell sell sell and rebuy it. Yeah, well, for crypto it wouldn't matter cuz if if my cost basis is 30 and some I bought it 40, some I bought for 20, it's like it's going to balance out. It's going to be the same thing. There's no benefit. So. So, you're not going to join the Pauls in in Puerto Rico? No. No. Who's the Who's the other dude? Uh, Mr. Gold. He's always ragging on stocks and everything. Just buy gold. Oh, Peter Schiff. Yeah. Oh. Peter Schiff, yeah. Seems like it would be interesting, but I feel like uh, it would make the podcast this podcast you couldn't do it in Puerto Rico. Like the it's easy to get people in Vegas Right. because it's like people travel here naturally. There's a big community here and anyone in the in the US you want to come to Vegas for a weekend? Everyone just says yes. Mhm. Puerto Rico is like, oh, you want to come to Puerto? That's a big trip. That's a big commitment. And what is there to do there besides come on the podcast? So, this business wouldn't exist because of that. So, probably better to make money here uh, just by having the access. Makes sense. Would you uh, be the guest referee in a Michael Saylor versus Peter Schiff debate? I don't know if I'd be good at that, but yeah, sure. Yeah, I don't I I would say yes, but right? Uh, I don't know. I feel like they're both on such opposite ends of the spectrum. I mean, Michael Saylor is and a carnivore? Basically. And I I think the right is somewhere in between. Uh, Peter Schiff I feel like is too conservative on a lot of financial measures. Michael Saylor I think has a great long-term vision, but I don't know how realistic a lot of that is. I don't know. Between the two I'm probably leaning more towards Michael Saylor on the spectrum between the two, but I'd say there's probably more truth right in the middle. Yeah. So, it's funny cuz you talk about nutrition, that's it's the same thing almost in finance. So, I read a Ramsey and uh, what's his name? Rich Dad Poor Dad or whatever. Robert Kiyosaki, yeah. So, everything is extreme. It's like everything on debt or no debt, right? So, you see that in every sphere, whether it's nutrition, finance, whatever else. Moderate and and somewhere in the middle it's just not acceptable. It doesn't sound but it's the most right. I know. You know? Yeah, it's interesting. You almost have to take an extreme in politics. I think it's the same thing like you have to really like alienate yourself against 50% just to get the support of the other 50% cuz in the middle I forget I think it was Kevin that was actually explaining that the metrics of politics to me. Where in the middle are like where the most right is. And where the most actually are too. Right. Those are the people less likely to show up rallies and turn out to vote. At all. Because they don't they're not convicted enough to like to follow through on that. They're kind of in the middle. But on the extremes you get people who show up to rallies, who support, who donate, who vote, who are really into it. So you have to take the stances if if that's something you want to get into. Cuz I always thought before Kevin tried me Kevin ran for governor of California. Before he did that I thought oh man it would be so cool to run for politics because then you could be like the voice of reason. I just be in the middle because I see stuff on like both Republican and Democratic side that that makes sense and like I and and that's why it's so hard for me to ever identify with one or the other because I'm like they're right in my opinion on these things but they're right on these things too and if we just merge them together. But That's how it drives the machine, right? Right. But How are you going to sell political ad space? How do you get poor people to donate to rich people so that they can then turn and give it to NBC to sell you ads to make you show up to vote to keep the same thing. And and that's the thing that that I realized is that you like have to trigger those those emotional responses. All the things that make certain demographics upset. I know. And Not actually doing anything to the other person holding that thing away from you, right? thing applies I think on YouTube too. It's like if I did a video title stock market update Friday. Well, S&P is up 2% like no one clicks on that. You you you have to Yeah. You have to just What videos do you click on? Yeah. ones. The good ones. Yeah, the good ones. The great videos. Yeah. Whatever that means. But we've done a lot. I mean, we've done over probably at this point well over 1,200 videos. And we've And so when people, you know, will mention a title, they don't like a title. We have like 1,200 videos of experience where every video I sit there and watch the analytics for an hour. Mhm. I know. It's like I get it. But when you when the the purpose of the video is to reach a large audience who will hopefully enjoy the video. lot of people that may have not seen your content yet. Correct. You already have your audience captured by Yeah. Exactly. So how do you appeal to the type of demographic who would benefit from that message? That demographic wouldn't click on like how to invest in a Roth IRA. They don't know what a Roth IRA is. So they're going to click on how to be a tax-free millionaire. Right. So So what what you're saying is what we do as well, right? Like so in in musculoskeletal care, like everything has its place. So surgery has its place, cracking. Most people need strengthening and exercises. A lot of people need stretching and soft tissue work. Some people need cracking. Some people need surgery. Some people need injections. Right? It's finding the right target with the right individual. But moderation doesn't get clicks, right? So we're going to do loud cracking videos. Yeah. So the goal, of course, even with our clinics is enough people are interested in this content. You've You've grabbed their attention in the space. Now you get them in the office. Now you can sit there and drill on the boring stuff. Sir, you have to do these exercises daily. You have to spend 10 minutes a day. But if I made that YouTube video or if I made that Instagram or TikTok, it wouldn't get any views at all. And the same thing happens the opposite. So then you make videos saying, "Oh, drive" Like people make videos saying, "Oh, chiropractic sucks" or "Dry needling sucks" or "This is why you don't eat this or that." And they're reacting to things that people are emotionally attached to. So then the incentive structure is built there for people to be negative about the same thing you're being clickbaity about, all right? So it's just this whole ecosystem. And that Again, what's a better system? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, this is human psychology. It's also interesting how negativity gets way more attention than the positivity between the two. Yep. So I've even noticed lately we we have a like a not really a joke. It's more more an inside thing where it's like down days, like negative days in the market, views are always better. When things are going really well, like you could have negative 3%, the views would be twice as much as if we're positive 3%. And that's And that's been consistent over over 5 years. Yeah. And um you know, some of that's due to our evolution, right? Like this is the nature of pursuing happiness for all of us. It's a struggle we fight our whole lives. Toddlers do this. They get a thing, and nobody's taught them this. It's in their DNA. Just like lying is in their DNA, right? Nobody taught them how to lie. They just found it was more advantageous for them to say, "No, I don't have the remote in my hand." Yeah. Right? They haven't learned the consequences of that yet, or the the consequences of not being intellectually consistent, you know? Yeah. So, you know, what what you're seeing from people is that sort of behavior that when they get something, it's the new shiny thing, right? They wanted it so bad, and now they have it. The thing is, they already have this. So, this is their next meal, this is their next mate, whatever that is. They don't even think that they could lose this, so they're already onto the next thing. And And what that is is that's that food mentality, that home mentality. You're wired to always get the next thing, cuz if you're ever satisfied, now you're going to die, right? You're ever Like, I ate food, now I'm never going to eat again, right? It's not good for you evolutionarily. You always want the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. And that's just wired in us, and we have less But do you think that's healthy, or do you think there's there's an element to that that you should just embrace it? I think you can make the argument on all sides. I think again, I don't think happiness is a constant process for everybody, and I don't think you ever actually find it, and that's That's where we say we're we have the pursuit of happiness, and it's it may be in the pursuit of degrees, or in the pursuit of business growth, or the pursuit of X amount of subscribers. But as soon as you hit the number that was going to make you happy, you're already onto the next thing. It'll never make you happy. And the people, you know, it's like Wall Street, how much is enough? More. Mhm. More, right? It's Yeah. It doesn't matter what it is. And the high achievers are the ones that are least satisfied with whatever it is. Yeah. And they're just going to keep separating themselves from the pack whether they're, you know, uh that's part of the the separation of wealth in this country, too, right? It's the people that get more willing to risk more, are willing to to go further cuz they're extreme people. Um and sometimes that means bending the rules, but that's that's what they see as their pursuit of happiness. Some people their frequency is at a different level where they're just in survival mode and they can never get out of that. You know. I disagree with the notion that happiness is never reached because that assumes that like happiness is objective-based, right? Where it not necessarily temporary happiness. I think it's just achieving new milestones. I think it's just pushing yourself, growing. Right? Probably Yeah, I guess so, yeah. It's different for each person, but I like to think that someone can live their life being happy throughout. It's a mental state, right? It's a state of being, not necessarily like do this, be happy. Do this, be happy. So, I I we don't disagree cuz I agree with you 100%. Um and you could find happiness in because of like you said it is a mental state. If you if if instead of focusing on the things you don't have, you were like, "Man, I live in a country where I have running water and I have a piece of plastic that can get me food anytime I want to and I'm not in danger of somebody running in from another tribe and my entire family and taking them away." Having that perspective sure makes you a lot more grateful to be here in a time where you don't scratch your arm on the on a tree and die from a bacterial infection because we have antibiotics. But, it's against our programming and our wiring to think of all the things that we have. We always want to think of the things that we don't have, which goes back to the the negativity thing that we're talking about. Fair. Yeah, I guess we could conditioned. I don't really know about what we're wired for. So, it takes a higher frequency, a higher vibe for an individual to be grateful. It's very difficult to do. And that I think what you're pointing out is happiness. Isn't that gratitude? Like that's sort of what happiness is. Like, "Wow, my mom's still alive so she can call me, right?" But, because you already have her every day, you don't walk around every day thinking I might not have her. And our brains probably would shut down if we sat around and thought about everything that we could lose. I mean, that's Right. where people have serious anxiety or or things like that. So, instead we're always like, "How can I make more money? How can I get a nicer car? How can I get a better job? How can I get a better girlfriend?" And then as we age then it's like, "How do I hold on to the things I had? How do I keep my hair?" needs to be worked towards to change your sentiment towards that. 100%. And there's no reason you couldn't find happiness in literally anything or everything. And in fact, some would argue that the the high end of the IQ thing almost predisposes you to not be happy. The the lower it is, the more you're like, "Wow, chocolate bar, butterfly." Yeah. You're not focused on the future or the past. That's awesome. Well, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it. We'll link to your information down below in the description along with the uh hopefully hopefully soon the the back cracking video whenever you post it. We'll link that down uh as well. Yeah. But, did you get a free stock down below in the description when you sign up for Public using the code Graham? Also, feel free to check out my Instagram and my YouTube Hey, Jack, you don't want to follow Jack. You don't want to follow Jack. I think he's getting about that. He never posts on Instagram anyway. Till next time. Cool.