The Masculinity Crisis Nobody Wants to Talk About | Unscripted Faith

Is masculinity toxic or is that just what culture wants men to believe? Seth Trout says men are being sold a counterfeit version of manhood and the confusion is costing us. So, what does real man masculinity actually look like? Seth, welcome to Unscripted Faith. >> Hello. Thanks for having me. >> We are honored to have you, Pastor Seth. if you would take a moment before we dive into this masculinity and the counterfeits we've been sold, would you share with me your God story? >> Yeah, my story is kind of what you hope any kid's story would be. When I think about parents and I think about my kids, if their story is somewhat like mine, I'd be happy about it. You know, I had two parents, mom and dad love each other, love the Lord, they're still part of the same church they've been a part of for going on 38 years, something like that. It's remarkably boring unless it's your kids, then it's exactly what you pray for. And my my mother, I have a lot of memories of her reading the Bible early in the morning. I think my dad really uh took hold of his faith around when I was like 12, something like that. But I was involved in our church and our student ministries. And I was at a summer camp when the camp speaker said, "Some of you don't buy this." And I remember at the time being really cynical. I was a pretty intellectual kid and thinking, "Everybody is here just for dating." That was the whole reason that I thought youth ministry happened. You know, I'm like, I know the stories. I know the Bible. I was a relatively moral kid. I wasn't out doing wild stuff, but I'd see the the guys raise their hands in worship. And I thought, they're doing this to attract the women. And I'd see the women bow their heads in prayer, and I'd say, "They're doing this so they can look like a potential godly spouse." And so, I definitely, you know, through puberty was in the cynic phase of, you know, everybody's drinking this Kool-Aid, but not me. But I remember it was like heaven opened up and a ton of bricks fell in my head. We sang the song uh Breathe. Uh I you're my I need you. I'm desperate for you. Lost without you. And I remember singing that the first time through and like rolling my eyes like what a bunch of uh sociology. This is nonsense. But then like we got to the second time we sang the chorus and it was like God's finger flicked in the inside of my skull. >> Said, "You need this. You're not who you think you are." And that's when I came to believe that God was real and that like he threat he almost shook his fist at me. I was like, "How dare you dismiss me like that?" And then over the course of the next handful of years, I uh came to faith and faith came to grip me in a more uh arresting way. Um I had two friends that their stories really affected my story. It was again kind of vicarious. one buddy uh who played volleyball with me, he had shoulder pain and then we graduated high school and that shoulder pain was actually stage four lung cancer and he passed away a couple months after that. I remember going to his funeral. It was at a Roman Catholic church and just being filled with anger at the platitudes and the cotton candy uh the lack of dealing with reality. And that's when I started reading voraciously like I started I was a philosophy major at Arizona State University. I read everything, kind of went crazy there. And then I had another friend whose dad was kicked off the mission field for crossdressing and doing kind of like the the trans thing. And he had told me that he had found estrogen pills online and had been taking them and they're helping him feel like himself. And I remember as a 19-year-old just going, "You shouldn't do that. That's you shouldn't take any hormone stuff without doctor supervision." But that's all that I had to tell him was don't do drugs without doctor's approval. And you know this is you know almost 20 years ago now and that was before the transgender thing had kind of really kicked off in a way that it has you know the last 15 years. And I didn't really have a category for it. And he said I don't feel like a man. And I remember going well I don't I I never had the question do I feel like a man. I just know that I my body says I'm a man. I'm a man. And I never thought like if I want to figure out if I have a man, should I look anywhere besides my pants? You know, like the idea that you look in your heart or your mind? What are you talking about? And so just feeling confused by that. And that again led me to I end up adding a psych major to my philosophy major. And so really it was what was happening to my two friends led me to study and grow. And uh I ended up becoming a pastor. I've been a pastor now 15 years. Really trying to help people with those two things like suffering and identity are like the things that people wrestle with. And those have been two markers of my ministry in the local church and through the writing. >> Wow. It really does boil down to those two things, doesn't it? Suffering and identity. Knowing who's you are, knowing who he is, and finding that in your own life. So, let me ask you, you know, you're you're all about masculinity and helping us to understand this better. What does it feel like to be a man? And what is this masculinity we should be looking at? Well, I think the Bible has more to say about what a man should feel like to other people than what he should feel like to himself. You know, our inner life as as men and women is to be congruent with the fruit of the spirit, walking with him in relationship with him. But the first half of the book that I wrote is really about what should a man feel like to other people. So, if I'm walking in my God-given masculinity, how do other people experience me when I walk into the room? How does the temperature change? Does it get warmer or colder? You know, are people do they feel safe or scared? Do they feel intimidated or and depending on who they are that might change that but really I think a man should feel like humility, discipline, responsibility and chivalry. Man's not a god. So he has to be humble. Submit to created reality. Submit to your need for grace. Receive God's grace. Man's not an animal. He should have discipline. Uh we're not like ring bell drool like a Pavlov's dog. You know, we have moral vision. We have moral vision, right? I want to eat six donuts, but more than that, I want to function at work. So my greater desires supersede my lesser desires. That creates discipline in my life. Uh I'm not a child. I have responsibility. I don't need to be motherthered. My wife should not be a mother to me. She should not be tending to me, reminding me like as though I was like a seven-year-old who needed prompting. And that I'm not a woman, so I should be chivalous. And this is 1 Peter 3:7 uh where the where Peter says, "Show honor to the woman as the weaker vessel. Live with your wife in an understanding way because she's co-airs with you of the grace of God." And so you get this idea that men and women are equal but not equivalent. And I think that the progressive lie has said that men and women are interchangeable. And I think you get some versions of like a right-wing weird conservative lie like in the uh kind of the grifter communities that say that men and women are so fundamentally different. They're basically different species. And that's especially a lie that young men are buying into nowadays because of figures like Andrew Tate and the Tik Tok stuff that's going on is just this view that women have less dignity than men. It's wildly common among young men and increasingly so. And I think that's somewhat of a a reactive unhealthy response to the kind of feminist progressive view that men and women are fundamentally interchangeable. >> I love that you make that distinguisher. They are equal but not equivalent. very different but also very much in God's image co-airs as you stated and scripture says so share with me how do we begin to combat this how do we begin to right side that pendulum swing that we are seeing happen in culture hey friend if this conversation is encouraging you consider donating to Cornerstone [music] TV to make these programs possible you can do that at ctvnorgdonate [music] >> you know I think people always do what they want and I I think even if they're doing what they don't want, it's because they want something more like there's a greater vision. You know, if someone like wants to commit adultery, but more than that, they want to be respected by their community, then they tend to not do that. And so, I do think like healthy shame or healthy social pressure or healthy scripts for what a man ought to do is part of that. And I think part of why young men flounder is there's no one telling them here's what you should do when you grow up. And it's kind of told to them, do what you want. You know, figure it out for yourself. And so that's some of what creates the mental health crisis is it's like this choice anxiety. It's no longer grow up, aspire to be a husband, father, maker, uh, and and brother. It's chart your own course. And so I do think part of what we need to do is supply to young men a compelling bullseye that they can shoot at and remind them that if hey, you're not going to be flawless. You're going to sin. You're going to need God's grace. That's okay. But here's something that you should be energized by and excited about. And so I think painting the picture that the Bible gives of man as something that's compelling because the reason people go to college and do fraternities and do the drink and do the hookup culture is because it seems exciting and fun. It's not because they just hate their parents. It's because that seems more fun and exciting than doing the Christian thing. And until we're able to cast vision in a way that God's design for man is actually more exciting and more fun and more compelling than what the world has to offer, people will continue to choose the world. A gospel preacher named Thomas Chalmer's called it the expulsive power of the greater affection. And so until there's a greater affection for Christ, a greater affection for God's design, men are just going to do the script and do the sex, drugs, and rock and roll thing all along those lines. And I think that compelling vision for masculinity is right in Genesis 1, 2, and 3. Like in Genesis 1, man and woman together are to be fruitful and multiply. Obviously, you need a man and a woman to do that. And subdue and have dominion, which is the cultural mandate theologians call it. That's they call to work to create to ga gain wealth to supply goods and services to unfold the potential. It's like kneading bread treading grapes. >> But then the man by himself is put in the garden in Genesis 2 and he's told to serve and protect or work and keep that could be translated that he's put as this priestly figure meant to preside over the garden. And what happens in Genesis 3 when the serpent shows up? Nothing. Because Adam fails, the first thing that happens is Adam's abdication, Adam's passivity creates the environment where Eve can sin and eat the fruit. And so even pre Eve's sin, you have Adam's passivity and not doing what God had just told him to do in Genesis 2. What should have happened is the serpent slithers up and Adam stomps on its head and says, "Hey, I'm here to serve and keep the garden. Get away from my wife." >> Or Eve should have had this dialogue with the serpent going and Adam should have said, "Hold up. Wait a minute. God did actually say, don't eat of that fruit of the tree. Don't touch that, honey. And you get out of here, serpent. But what happens? It's it's passive. And so this initiation, this chivalry, this strength that honors, this protect and provide is very much a Genesis 2 calling. And I think that if men see that not just as a traditional social script, but as part of God's authorship, they'd be excited to run after it. And they'd be going, I want to climb that mountain. I want to take that hill. and the delayed gratification it would require would be something that would actually they'd be willing to pay that cost. >> Wow. You have said so much there, Pastor Seth. I mean, that is so good. And I love that you highlight I've not often heard, especially um from the male perspective. I've not often heard people pick up and share about the passivity of Adam in the garden. I myself wrote a book and that's one of the things I highlight on. men h man was present with Eve in that moment and I love that you said if they could catch a glimpse of this if they could understand this is your purpose you've got the right you can stand up and not be passive but actually take that hill it will change everything for them from their core motivation to how they live it out loud in our last few moments here what is the word that you would give give one encouraging word one declaration to our viewers, whether male or female, of how we can embrace and encourage this masculinity with those closest to us, our husbands, our brothers, our friends. >> I think is uh let is it going to sound as backwards as going to sound? I think digital culture has made laziness the biggest trap that men can fall into. The sloth, the slugardliness. The book of Proverbs talk about how the slugard brings shame to his father and bitterness to his mother. And I think that we're in a pretty individualistic culture where this idea that I'm trying to bring honor to my family name is something that we're allergic to. But I think we should bring back a little bit of that healthy shame and honor culture and go, what does it mean to bring honor to my family name? What does it mean to throw off slugardliness? What does it mean to pursue with relentless verility what God has called me to do? Because I think a lot of male pattern depression is not believing this that God has prepared good works for you to do that you should walk in them beforehand. And so God has a design for my life. He has a design for your life. And believing that he's called me to something and I need to become something so I can do those things. You want to change the world and world hunger, you probably have to go to school, accumulate some capital, get a medical degree, get a law degree. Like you have to build yourself before you can change the world. And I think a lot of young men in particular need to have a vision for how God might use them because he's promised that he he will. He has a plan for how to use you. But if you don't walk in it, then you're just falling into the sin of Adam just again and again and again. >> Pastor Seth, thank you so much. You are a profound thinker, a wonderful communicator, and we are so thankful that you are helping us to get rid of the counterfeit and walk into true authentic masculinity. Thank you for being with us today. Thanks for having me.