“The Law Just Changed.” How Ordinary People Build Extreme Wealth - Tony Robbins (4K)

People of the UK and Ireland, I'm coming to you live. Imagine that, me on stage in your city. Dublin is completely sold out, but everywhere else has got limited tickets left and you can get yours now at chriswillson.live. This is a customuilt live show. I absolutely adore it. I've spent over a year working on it. So, if you're a fan of everything Modern Wisdom, come and see me on stage this October around the UK and Ireland. Chris Williamson.Live. Despite being just 4% of the global population, Americans made up nearly 50% of the world's new millionaires in 2025. You've written three books in this area. Why another one on finance? What what hadn't you said already? >> Good question. I I never even write the first book. Uh in fact, I hadn't written a book for almost 15 years. I don't enjoy writing books. I like the the variety and the aliveness of interaction, what happens. Um, but when 2008 happened, I was really annoyed because I worked with Paul Tudtor Jones, one of the greatest financial traders of history. I've coached him for almost 30 years. So, I had some insights to what was going on. And at the end of it, I thought somebody's going to get punished. Something's going to happen because a small number of people basically almost destroyed the world economy. And what I saw was their reward or their punishment was we gave them more money. And so about 2010, 111, 12, I started saying, "Man, something's got to happen here." And I was mad because it's like right now the game seems like it's rigged and the average person thinks that they can't win. And I want to know could they? And so since I've got access, I said I'm going to interview 50 of the smartest financial investors in history, the most successful, the Ray Dalas, the Carl Icons, the Warren Buffets, all of them, Paul Tutors, and I'm going to find from them whether the game is really winnable still. And so I wrote this book, Money Master the Game. I wanted to write a book that my billionaire clients would be blown away by but I could also someone just starting the journey would do it and we were successful number one New York Times bestseller really great but then you know people are not prepared for what happens and while I didn't know co was coming anyone can anticipate the changes in the market and so I run unshakable because I wanted people not to lose when the markets change and people that applied that got tremendous value but then along the way so many people Americans are behind like they're so far behind in terms of their investments ments in terms of their the retirements. And so how do you get there? Well, you got to get better returns, but usually requires bigger risks. And one of the people I became really good friends with was Ray Dalio, who's you know the greatest investors in history. They call him the Da Vinci. And um and one of the days I met him, I was supposed to have a 30-minute interview and four hours later we left as part of how we became friends because I studied everything about him. But one of the final questions I asked him was, "What's the single most important investment, you know, principle that you know of? If there's one principle to guide people, what would it be?" Cuz I now I gathered all these brilliant people. And I come down to like these core four things that everybody needs to do. Everybody needs to protect downside risk. And that's not what most people think about, right? The best investors on earth are all about don't lose money, which so counterintuitive, but they do it by asset allocation. They don't ever put all their eggs in one basket. They know how to allocate wealth. So when they lose, they can still win. They know if you lose 50%. You got to make 100% return to get even. Most people don't do the math properly in their head. But the biggest thing I saw was asymmetrical riskreward. Then when they went to risk a dollar, like Paul Tudtor, his goal is if I think I'm making an investment, I got to believe I'm risking a dollar to make five. Now if I'm wrong, I can risk another dollar, still make four. He could be wrong four out of five times and be in good shape. Whereas the average person doesn't think that way. Uh I met uh you know some people that did some investments like Kyle Bass who you know Kyle from from Texas. Kyle's follower of my work. He took $30 million and turned in 2 billion in 2008. How do you do that in a year in the worst year of economics? He saw real estate and saw everybody thinks it's going to go up and it's not. And so he risked basically 15 cents on every dollar. He could be wrong 15 times and still make money. and he made money. So I asked him at the times this for Ray Dal I said how do you teach somebody you know this idea of you know thinking that you're taking huge risks to get huge rewards is not how you win it's dis disproportionate I need asymmetric riskreward how do you explain that to somebody who doesn't understand he goes well Tony it's interesting you say that I want to explain it to my kids so he said I was trying to figure out how to teach it to him so one day I asked a question what is a riskless investment and I said riskless investment is there really such a thing he goes no most people don't ask that question so they don't find the answer he said, "There is one nickels." He said, "If you buy a nickel, you can never lose the money. It's always worth a nickel." But he said, "Let me explain to you how I taught my kids this. It cost 9 cents for the American government to make a nickel. That's how we run our government." He said, "Pennies used to be full of copper, 95% copper, and then we turned down to 2% copper, and those pennies from the past are worth twice as much money, right?" He said, "It's going to happen." And he said, "But also I can melt it down. The meltdown value is worth 20% more than I'm buying it for." So or 36%, excuse me, more than I'm buying it for. He said, "So I could melt." I said, "Well, you can't do that legally." He goes, "Well, that's true, but some money goes outside the country." He said, "But let me be clear. I called the Federal Reserve and said, "How many nickels do you have?" And I bought all the nickels they would sell me. And he said he bought like 20 million nickels, whatever the number was. And he goes, "If I could push a button and put all my money in nickels, I do it tomorrow. I have a 36% return on day one. I'll have virtually guarantee 100% return at some point in the future cuz you can't keep making things for 9 cents that you're charging 5 cents for. And he said, "And I have no downside." He said, "So that's asymmetrical riskreward." Right? So in that area, that's something that's hard to get, but I knew that was valuable. Then the third thing I found they all talked about is you got to be tax efficient, right? Because that your net is based on taxes. And then the fourth is the one we all know diversification but diversifying against different assets different asset classes different time frames and different countries different currencies. But Dalio said when I asked him this question he goes Tony I have thought about this for the last 15 years and I have now what I would tell you is the holy grail of investing which is the title of our book and he goes it's simply this. I found out that if you will confine 8 to 12 non-correlated investments and they're things you believe in, you reduce your risk by 80% and increase your upside. Now, when I heard this, I was like, "Wow, it's hard to find 8 to 12 uncorrelated investments in the world we're in today, right? Even stocks and bonds, they're not supposed to be correlated, but if you look at what happened in 2008, 2020, they do. They both go down, right? They they correlate. And then your broker says, I don't know what it is, right?" Um so he explained to me more detail about that but the simple understanding is you have to go to private equity private credit private real estate to have that diversification unless you're you know a trader has sophistication synthesis that you can use synthesized type of investments and so that sent me on looking at then didn't I was invited to go down to speak at the alternative investment conference for JP Morgan got to be a billionaire to get in there right I've been there two or three times now and who speaks right before me is Ray Dallio and they do this full interview with him and the last question they ask ask him a very similar question. What's the most important thing you've learned in 50 years investing? He says the holy grail. Everyone in the room is a billionaire plus. Nobody written notes the whole damn day. Everybody's head goes down writes this down because it's such a simple principle, but it's the core. So I started saying, how do I get to that? How do I help the average person to get that? Cuz you know, I've got a name, you got a name. We have we all have access to a certain extent. Private equity is an extraordinary result. But here's what I found out. In the last 39 years, private equity has outproduced every stock market in the world for 39 straight years. Average private equity, now in this book, we interviewed 13 of the best in the world. Right? Average has averaged 15.7% returns. The S&P 500 of those 39 years is 9%. 74% better per year compounded for 39 years. So, if you put a million bucks in the S&P, you're pretty happy right now. you got just under 29 million, 28.7 million. If you put it in basic private equity, it's $293 million. The same money, same time, 10 times the return. So now the question is, how the hell do you get access? Because there's a big difference between the big boys and the average boy, right? So you again, if you're famous, you might get it. I got access. I know people, but that the slice they give me wouldn't change my life, right? It's nothing really huge. And I was lamenting about this to a friend of mine who lives used to be partners with Paul Tudtor Jones, really great guy and I'd helped him a lot. He said, "Tony, I'm going to make your day. I'm going to tell you where I put most of my money and I'm going to change your life." He said, "You've done so much for me. It's my time to do for you." I said, "Really? I'm leaning forward." This is a very sophisticated guy. He goes, "There's a company that can allow you to come in and not just try to get a little piece of these investments, but you become an owner, a general partner in these firms, not a limited partner. You make the two and 20. You're on every single asset that they have, every single investment they have." I said, "Really?" I said, "Where's this firm?" And I thought he was going to say, you know, New York, Connecticut, London, Singapore. He goes, "They're in Houston." I said, "Houston?" He goes, "Yeah, they're away from a beaten path and they do this better than anybody I've ever seen." He said, "They have the majority of my money. You got to go meet him." That's how I met my co-author here, Christopher. Because I went and sat down. It turned out Christopher had been through my program 25 years ago, started his business based on it. He has I got to brag on him a moment. He has a 96% profit ratio on the investments he's made for 25 straight years. We joined forces about 5 years ago. He's at about 2.7 billion. We've grown it to 13 billion just in the last four and a half five years. And so I got I became an investor initially, then I became an owner of the company, partner in the company, and we've grown the company to have that kind of impact. And it's because we're able to bring people general partnerships. It's like, do you want to own the raceh horse? You want to own the race track? That's what the opportunity is. And the richest people in the world, if you look at the Fords 400, are all people that are in private equity. This is where the largest. It's not real estate. It's not technology. Look at the list and you'll see who they are. There's a reason this is one of the most unique opportunities. And now the reason we wrote the book is the average American has not had access. If you look at the ultra high net worth people, 52% of their money is in private equity, private credit. This private only 29% in the public markets. >> There used to be 8,000 companies 30 years ago. Now there's only 4,000 in the public markets. 87% of all companies are private today. 100 million to three billion, there's 200,000 of them and that's a whole lot more to be able to do. The old idea of private equity is you go in, you take over the company and you sell everything off. It's not like that today. It's about added value. They have to be. So, it's a new industry and the way it's been operating and it's producing results unlike anything else. You can't be all your money because you need liquidity and there even some answers to that today. But we went all in in figuring out how to help people to be able to grow at a much higher rate so they can get to their goals but with even less risk if they manage it effectively. >> Do you think ordinary people are making a mistake by putting all of their money into the S&P then? This is kind of old school wisdom dollar cost average in but it sounds like there's other returns to be made. >> It's so funny. I had a conversation with somebody literally a couple months ago and they say, you know, Christopher, I understand this diversification thing, but I really don't need that. I own like six out of the seven of the Magnificent Seven. I'm like, dude, you are not diversified. They all move together. If one is zigging, the other is zigging as well. So, they all get hit together. People don't think back to where the Magnificent 7, literally in 2002 during the selloff that we had there, that group of stocks dropped by almost 50% in less than a year. So, people might want that upside, but they have to be able to tolerate the downside. So, do I think it's a mistake to put money in the S&P? No. But it can't be everything. They need to have diversification of other things that will zigg and zag at different times, which is the whole point of the holy grail of investing is if you have certain things that are making money when others are losing money, and I know it's a silly example, but for everybody who's a golfer out there, they'll get it. Right? If you stock a golf shop and all you sell in there is sunscreen, well, on sunny days, you're going to sell a lot of sunscreen. If all you sell is umbrellas, well, then on rainy days, you're going to sell a lot of umbrellas. But the key is to have both. So on rainy days and sunny days, you're still making money. And that has been so hard. Here's another fun statistic. In 2005, just literally 21 years ago, if you had an average allocation that looked like most of the brokerage accounts, including alternatives, your average correlation was about 0.15, which meant they correlated about 15% with each other. 85% they were moving different directions. Okay. today, literally with no change in that ass allocation, it is 82% correlation. >> Globalization is a hell of a drug, man. >> It is, but it's also indexation >> because if everybody's buying the same stocks just all in or all out every single day, they tend to all move together. >> ETFs don't discriminate. Yeah. >> No, they don't. And what happens is in stressful environments, it actually gets worse to where it goes all the way up to about an 89% correlation when you have a down market because what happens? Everybody indiscriminately sells everything at the same time and that means they're getting hit from all sides which is why 2020 in the early part of that year was so tough for people in 21-22 everything basically got hammered. >> And think about it right now the Magnificent 7 are 32. >> Can you explain the Magnificent 7 for people that don't know what that is? >> Absolutely. So Magnificent 7 is basically the the the big names that people know the Nvidia the Netflix the Facebooks or Meta now Google Amazon etc. Those are the M Microsoft included in that. That's something that was in seven. And to what Tony was about to say, okay, right now that MAG 7 is 38% of the S&P 500. >> Well, it's actually under 32 today. >> It pul it pulled back quite a bit here lately. And so what that means is 493 stocks make up the other 68%. >> And so seven make up 32%. And the highest percentage in history before this has been 17% of any group of companies. >> So it's twice what more than twice what >> it's a consolidation of risk even inside of the S&P 500 which is supposed to be spread across 500 companies >> completely and very volatile companies to as well. >> I want you to know they're complimentary. We we have things in the S&P as well. But you got to have you got to spread your risk. You can't do it all. And when you look at ultra, if you look at pension funds, you look at, you know, university funds, if you look at what's happening with high net worth people, the majority of their investments are in private equity because that's where they're getting the returns. You can't they have to be able to provide for the future and provide an income to the future. And so that's where they are. So you and there just isn't more. There's not enough volume. >> Think about it. to go from 8,000 30 years ago to 4,000 stocks roughly a little less than that actually now in the public markets. You've got more dollars chasing a smaller number of items and you know what that creates? It creates inflation that isn't necessarily based on value. >> Okay, lots of stats, lots of complex numbers to be able to understand to you. Imagine that somebody doesn't understand investing, doesn't know where to start. How do you explain what diversification should look like just from first principles and and where should that go? So what I always try to tell people is exactly like the business example. No single company really wants to sell one thing. So you want in your portfolio, you want things that are going to do well in lots of different environments. Good economies, bad economies, high inflation, low inflation, high interest rates, low interest rates. In order to accomplish that, you have to diversify across lots of different asset classes. And most people hear private investments and they get very intimidated by that. You're like, I don't know what a private investment is. Well, most people are in the private markets. They don't really realize it because they own a home. Anybody who owns a home owns a private asset. It's not priced every single day in the newspaper. You can't look it up online to see exactly what it's worth. You can get a guide, but you never know for sure what it's worth until you sell it. Well, that's a private asset. The same with the dry cleaner on the corner or the Subway sandwich shop that they might go shop in. Those are all private businesses. And obviously anyone who owns those is going to make money or lose money based on the success of that particular business, not because of the fact that the Fed raises interest rates or lowers interest rates or all the other complex things that try to intimidate people or tend to intimidate people. So getting people to understand it's just simply good diversification, good business practice to not have all your revenue streams tied up in one single product. >> That's true also for your investments. Let your return streams come from lots of different sources. >> And here's a piece that that's different today and it's about to change because we're interviewing uh Secretary of Labor Sandling right after this interview. He's coming into the house. There are new laws. One of the reasons we wrote the book is it's great to know this, but most people can never have access. So what good is it? >> Mhm. So what's happened though is the Congress and the Senate actually the passed a law initially went through the Congress, not yet the Senate that said that look, you should not be barred from having these types of investments because you're not an accredited investor with a million dollar net worth or you know or a $5 million net worth as a qualified purchaser. The best investments have been reserved for people with the most money. It's completely unfair. Now the idea is well we're protecting them from things that are unsophisticated. Well, think about it. A lot of great business people are not great investors or a lot of people inherit money. They're not great investors but they get to go there. So what they came up with is we're going to create a set of questions so you can educate yourself and if you can answer these you're qualified. You don't have to have an economic qualification just have to understand what you're doing which makes so much more sense. >> But even since then there's some new laws that are coming out and maybe you can address them that are happening. They're right now being reviewed as we speak. That's we're having the interview with later with Secretary of Labor Sauring. >> So two things. Number one is last June, a year ago June, the Securities and Exchange Commission, the SEC, just literally with a stroke of a pen, said people do not have to be an accredited investor anymore to invest in certain types of funds which own alternative assets. Funds that own things like the Los Angeles Lakers that just sold or the Golden State Warriors or, you know, Formula 1 teams, etc. SpaceX before it was an IPO, right? Those kinds of funds were never available to investors unless they were already wealthy. So now anyone in the world literally for a $2,500 minimum can invest in those funds. That literally changed last June. And most people don't know that. The second thing that Tony's referring to is the Labor Department has put forth a rule that would enable it to be much easier for 401k plans to allow alternative investments to be available to every single person who has a 401k or a 403b or any kind of retirement account. That is a total gamecher for the industry to be able to allow people for the first time to be able to invest in so much of the economy that they've been prohibited from before >> unless they're wealthy. Tell me if this sounds familiar. You train regularly. You eat reasonably well. You feel fine, but you're just kind of going off vibes. Most people have absolutely no idea what's going on inside their body. And that is why I partnered with Function. Function gives you access to more than 160 advanced lab tests spanning hormones, heart health, kidney function, and even detects early signals linked to more than 50 types of cancer. To put that in perspective, your typical annual physical might test 20 markers. Function runs over 160. It's huge. Best of all, you test twice a year and everything lives inside of a simple dashboard. So, you track trends over time, make sure you're moving in the right direction. And this level of testing would usually cost thousands, but with function, it is $365 per year. Just $1 a day to actually know what's happening inside of your body. And right now, you can get $25 off, bring it down to 340 bucks. Get the exact same blood panels that I use and save $25 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modwisdom. That's functionhealth.combottomwisdom. Can you let's get specific. What are some of the investment opportunities, asset classes that people don't think about? Everybody understands and you guys agree S&P that's probably a good place to have some, etc., etc., right? We can tick away with that. What are the more uh >> exotic? >> Well, I'll give you one that's fun and it's not exotic because everybody knows about it, but they think it's probably impossible. Sports. Is he just related? Sports are an uncorrelated investment. They have nothing to do whether the market's going up or down. What's happening with interest rates? In the last 10 years, they've had an 18% compounded return. But if you look at through history, through wars, World War I, World War II, sports have always done well and they're non-correlated. So, you want to find >> sports are recession proof. >> Yeah, they are. >> And you know why? Today, they don't just sell hot dogs, which by the way, they have a unique relationship. They have a monopoly in their cities, a legal monopoly. No one else can go compete with them. And and by the way, their fans, they're called fanatics. That that's where the fan comes from. They're multigenerational and they come and they when inflation goes up, they charge more for a hot dog as we all know and everything else you can imagine. But now they don't just sell tickets and hot dogs. Today these are modern media organizations. So we own a piece. I own a piece of self. I took me what 20 years of my life to be able to own a sports team and to qualify it and go through they had a microscope to you. I helped us start the the uh the soccer team that we have, you know, in in Los Angeles, the LA football club, and uh put the whole thing, invested, went through the whole nine yards. But then the rules changed and they made it so certain firms were able to make investments directly into these firms. And now they did it in Major League Baseball, they did it in the NBA, they did it in Major League Hockey, and now the NFL has just done it. And the returns are unbelievable. So I'll just give you an example. We have a piece of the Dodgers. We own a piece of the Red Sox. We went a piece of the Lakers, excuse me, Lakers, the the Golden State Warriors. All these firms have grown. So, Peter Goober, my my one of my partners in business, we did the LAFC together. He was one of the guys that bought the Dodgers in 2012. He paid 2.2 billion for the Dodgers. Every article said, "He's insane. These people are never going to make money. This is the most ever paid for a sports team." Now, Peter's my partner, and I'm like, "Peter, I know you're no dummy. Are were we what? Are we doing the right thing here?" He goes, "Tony, you can trust me on this. you know me well enough, but he said, "I'm not even going to tell you. I'm going to make an announcement the next week and then you come over and we'll have a little party together." So now, here's what you need to understand. When you're on a sports team, if it's like the NBA, you're 132nd of the league. You have 32 teams or the NFL. NFL is even better example. All the national international advertising, you get 132nd of. So, if you own an NFL team, you get a $400 million check to start the season. That's your piece. but you also own your local TV advertising yourself. So Peter bought them for 2.2 billion and then announced he just sold the rights for local television rights for $7 billion and made5 billion in a day. Right? So he's done quite well in this area and I've done quite well with him in this area. Um you know today the he he took on the Golden State Warriors. They were the worst placed team. They had paid only $450 million for it. Now they're the second highest valued sports franchise in the world behind the Yankees to even excuse me behind the Dallas Cowboys at this point, right? 11 billion that he's built it to. So these are enterprises today that are not just selling sports. They're every aspect what you imagine and they are an incredible return and they have nothing to do with what happens in the stock market. >> Sounds great. How do I invest? >> There's lots of different ways that somebody can do it if they have the right knowledge and the right information. But because of the rule changes, now there are funds that are available literally that people can get into for 2500 bucks and own a piece of all of those funds. >> This just got actually we just got approved for this to give you a sense. >> Yeah. I mean that was that so that was June of 25 was the first time that the rules changed to allow everyday investors to be able to do it. But so collectively as a firm, you know, we have exposure over 30 different professional sports franchises and we have ways that every single investor in the world can invest with us and own a piece of all of those firms, right? >> Diversified. So it's not just one team up. >> That's right. Across. >> So you've made a index fund or an ETF of a variety of sports teams. >> You know, I'd love to say that it's better than that, right? And I believe it is because it's not just beta. It's not just the market itself or the index fund, but actually really really curated specific teams and specific areas that have specific opportunities for growth that we believe we bought at very attractive prices. >> What's the category of firm that has access to this? Someone wants to go onto the internet right now and say this sounds great. I love sports. I want to get in I need to diversify. Like what what do they put into the internet? >> Just put in casin.com. That's that's what they would do. That's the easiest way. But I mean, there's very few firms that are permitted to be able to invest in multiple teams in the same league. And that's what the rule changes were from 2019 to 2024 for somebody to be able to do that. It wasn't it didn't exist before 2019. So, we were very early in that in that theme. And for one of the things I think it would be really helpful for the audience because a lot of people like, okay, sports teams are trophy assets and people just rich people want to own it because it's a cool thing to own. It is a cool thing to own, but it's about cord cutting. It's about people getting their content differently. Watching your podcast is not something that really existed 20 years ago. So, in 2005, 14 of the top 100 watched programs that were live in the United States were sports. 14 out of 100. In 2025, 96 of the top 100 watched live programs were sports. Why? Who watches a live program when you can go on Netflix or Amazon or any other and not have to watch commercials? So, you're gonna watch >> sports teams and Love Island fans. That's that's all that's left. I mean, we own a, you know, along with our partners, we own a steak in Liverpool and we own a piece of Paris. Sorry to hear that. Yeah. Well, you know, I figured you might because of where you're from, but all the and several others that you might be more familiar with. >> But the opportunity to be able to own those dominant franchises around the world in all different types of sports is something that most people didn't ever think of. And that was your question. What do people not think of? The other thing they don't think about is early stages of venture capital because like well I can't get access to it. You know Seronic got great attention earlier this this this summer because they rescued those two pilots that were shot down in the straight of Hormuz the helicopter pilots. It was an autonomous boat >> made by a company in Austin, right? That literally went out there and saved these two people with no other people being put at risk. That didn't exist a couple of years ago. But that is an example of a company that actually is available to everybody in the world now at a $2,500 minimum if they know where to go. And obviously that's a big part of what we wanted to write the book for to be able to help people understand these opportunities do exist and they've got to do their own homework and they got to make sure that they're comfortable with it. But ultimately that's what something that's something that people really just were never able to do >> and now the world has changed and they have the ability to adapt with it and get exposure that they couldn't before. And at these final pieces that Sonelink's working on, they they've had their final comment period. So shortly there'll be a final decision, but that means people could put in their 401k as well. So now it's tax advantage on top of everything else that you're talking about here. >> But there, you know, the world has changed. Think about what the war has happened that in Ukraine and how that's changed the world. We no longer can start sending these multi-million dollar missiles to take out these crappy little drones. It just it's it's it's a system that doesn't work. And so now there's all these private companies that are gearing up to take on this. And now, you know, the G7 and this group has gone in, they're having to put 5% of their money in. They're almost doubling what they're spending. So you're talking about literally a level of spending that's going into the military side, but it's now companies that are based on technology who can come and and do things at scale. >> And exactly. Those are the ones that we've invested in, right? So we have access to those. So those are all against ways to diversify. So you have different asset classes, right? Think about space and military. These are going to grow. Unfortunately, we're going to need them to grow geometrically. >> I'm happy about space. Space good, military, military, but we got to protect ourselves, right? So it's a combination of two. >> And that's something to where literally the the headline was got to stop throwing Ferraris at frisbes. Okay? You know, you can't use a tomahawk missile to shoot down a $30,000 drone. So you have to come up with other ways to protect your c your people and to be able to protect your country. And then space is just such it truly is the no pun intended the new frontier. And to be able to do what we're doing in space and what SpaceX has done to be able to open up the commercialization of space to such a dramatic effect to be able to deliver things that were never able to be done before to places that were never able to be done before. There's another company as an example called Armada. They literally have a box that looks like a rail car. They can drop that in the middle of nowhere Africa and because of Starlink they can have a completely fully operational data center as long as they have power and access to the sky. >> I saw a video of this. It's like a industrial shipping container thing. Yeah, I've I've seen this before. That's wild. >> Very early investors in the company because what it did it's solving a huge need. What they refer to as being on the edge to where you know things in the middle of Alaska or things on a on a ship in the middle of the ocean, right? you're not going to be able to have a data center there that's secure. So, we have one of the gentlemen that works for us. He's a former Green Beret, right? He can't tell the exact story for obvious reasons, but literally they were in a jungle somewhere south of, you know, in South America and literally they were able to use an Armada box connected to a local natural gas facility connected to Starlink and saved their butts, >> right? He got a chance to meet the CEO and he said, "You saved my life. Thank you." And he's like, "I didn't do that." No, your business saved my life. That's the kind of use case. Or Icon, another Austin based company that you may know, Jason Ballard and his team at Icon are they do the 3D printed homes. Okay. >> Yes, I have seen this as well. >> Okay. So, they are literally able to print homes or now bareric or any other kind of industrial facility, two stories, and they can do it faster and cheaper than you could ever do it with physical labor. And obviously, it's concrete, so it's very durable and it's very sustainable. Well, I mean, businesses are crazy. >> Coming from the UK, America is a fantastic country, but you guys insist on making your houses out of wood. It's [ __ ] wood. Everything's made out of wood. I'm like, build it out of brick. This is ancient technology that we're doing here. Some thatched roof that you've got. Tell you what, I had I had David Friedberg on the show a couple of months ago. He's so great. And he was explaining to me, talking about crazy new technologies. He was explaining to me one of the reasons that the moon is going to be incredibly important. It means that once you've got something there and you can vonoyman probe, use the materials on the moon to make stuff that you send from the moon because the launch velocity that you need to get off of there is is is way lower. Right? That was cool. But he explained to me how the mass ejectors on the moon work. So I was thinking you've got a small factory that finds materials, turns it into kind of a 3D printing style thing, and then from there you send out into the rest of the solar system and the galaxy what it is that you need. But he explained to me the way that you get it off, you need about 4 km or so of track and you use a mag le thing to send it. But what was so [ __ ] cool, this is my favorite thing. Two things. >> First off, the gravity on the moon is so low that you don't actually need to send something up. If you send it fast enough flat, it reaches escape velocity just like throwing a ball really really hard and it just gets out of that was the first thing. The second thing is that you use the orbit of the moon to aim. So you're waiting. You're waiting. Boom. And you send it and it's like, "Oh, I'm just going to use the way that the moon rotates to like fire it in the direction." I was like, "This is the coolest [ __ ] I've ever heard." I thought it was. >> By the way, Icon is building Exactly. >> out of the materials on the moon. They're building the facilities for them there. They've got a practice facility that wasn't >> built for NASA has has hired them to effectively make this possible. And so those are the kinds of things we were seed investors in the company of ICON. We've watched it grow up. That's an example of things that people would never think to invest in. >> They would just observe like, "Oh, that's cool. You need to be David Freeberg to know that it's happening." >> That's right. But you don't anymore. Yeah. It's available to everybody in the world literally at 2500 bucks. >> What about the other side of this? What is an investment that maybe millions of Americans currently believe is safe or reliable, but is actually riskier than they think it is? It's hard because everything has its purpose, right? Some investments should lose money 90% of the time, but 10% of the time they make a lot of money and that gives you negative correlation or things moving opposite direction. So that doesn't mean anything is bad. I mean, somebody could say that Bitcoin is a bad investment. It could be a phenomenal investment. >> It can be higher risk though, right? Something that's higher risk than people anticipate. What would you put in that category? >> There's so much that fits into that category. So many people don't understand that, you know, the risk level is what we refer to statistically as volatility. All right, standard deviation. What I put it is your gut. How much does your gut have the ability to tolerate? If you can't see it turn into 50 cents overnight, you don't belong in it. So, you got to make sure that whatever it is you own is not going to create the panic that you get out of it and then you dramatically underperform the investment itself because you can't stay in the seat, right? That's one of the reasons why leverage is so dangerous for most people is leverage gets them blown out with a margin call because the fact that they don't have staying power. Staying power can be economic and it can be gut. And the vast majority of investors don't have near as tough a tough a gut as they think. >> Citadel comes along and eats your lunch. >> That's correct. And that's exactly what happens. And that's what makes a market. >> So it's too soon. >> No, no, it's okay. It's just the reality of the world. And obviously good for Citadel, not great for the other party. But that's what most people have to do is not overconentrate >> and and like Bitcoin is a perfect example. Young people go for Bitcoin like crazy. And the idea was it was going to protect us in, you know, in inflationary areas. But you see what happens when all of a sudden the tech investors lost a lot of money. Guess what? They all sold their Bitcoin to cover themselves, right? So they're correlated still. And so it's a lack of understanding. I'll tell you what's more scary. I just read a statistic the other day that generation Z and millennials, the combination of the two, 52% of them in the last year have taken money that they would have used investment and put into sports betting and that 26% think that sports betting is their way to build their financial future. >> As two financial experts, are you telling me that's not the truth? >> Definitely not. Hell no. Bad idea. >> Come on. >> Now, you may be good for a while, but I wouldn't plan on fear. >> It's called luck, right? You're just praying for luck in that situation. >> Yeah, but who wants to invest in the sports team themselves? I want to invest in whether or not this guy's going to touch gloves with the goalkeeper before he finishes. >> Let me let me invest in the horse and not own the racetrack. That's the opposite mindset. That's you want a billionaire mindset, you want to own the racetrack. >> I've learned from over a thousand podcast episodes, the easier that you make your health routine, the more consistent you'll be. It's like golf, right? You want to keep it simple and not mix a bunch of pills. You want the eye of the tiger, not the DUI of the tiger. That's why I'm such a huge fan of AG1. One scoop contains 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food source ingredients in a single daily drink. And that's why been taking it every single morning for nearly 5 years now. And they've taken it a step further with AG1 NextGen backed by four clinical trials. Those trials, it was shown to fill common nutrient gaps, improve key nutrient levels in just 3 months, and increase healthy gut bacteria by 10 times, even in people who already eat well. Plus, if you're still unsure, they've got a 90-day money back guarantee. So, you can buy it and try it every single day for 3 months. And if you don't like it, they will give you all of your money back. Right now, you can get 20% off a welcome kit and that 90-day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinkag1.com/modernwisdomd. That's drinkagg1.com/modernwisdism. Talking about the psychology, I think this is this is an area I really want to talk about. Is there a personality type that shouldn't be an active investor? Is there a type of person who just isn't built to be in the market at all? Well, how would you advise people who are significantly more riskaverse to put up with the bad days, to put up with that time? >> It's such a beautiful thing because they don't ever have to have a bad day if they're properly diversified. >> Yeah. Oh boy. >> The most people are like, "Okay, I'm going to put, you know, the old 6040, right? 60% stocks, 40% bonds." For decades, that worked until it didn't. And then all of a sudden, people realized that they actually were more correlated and they didn't make money on their bonds and they got hammered on their stocks. It doesn't mean there's not a place for bonds and it doesn't mean there's not a place for stocks, but they need to build it out with the rest of it. So, the more riskaverse somebody is, the more diversified they should be. If somebody's going to go out and and by the way, this is the biggest mistake that I see people make every single day. And I've seen it for 35 years in my career. People make investment decisions based on dollars. That is crazy. No professional investor does that. It has to be on percentages. So, a million-doll investment sounds like a lot of money, and it is. Unless you're worth a hundred million dollars, in which case it's just 1%. >> So $10,000 or a million dollars, if it's 1%, it's 1%. And somebody says, "I'm gonna go put 50% of my money into this," they'd go, "That's way too much. That's risky." >> Or if they're going to say, "I'm going to go put 50 grand in it." Well, now all of a sudden they go, "That's not that much money." Well, if you only got 100 grand, it's a lot. So the more that they diversify and properly diversify across all of their assets and percentages are properly weighted, they don't have to worry about volatility because that's the whole point of the holy grail of investing is just by adding 8 to 12 different non-correlated investments. You can reduce your risk by 80% 80% volatility. >> The only way to do it >> 80% reduction in risk and you can usually get still a the same return or even a better rate of return. Well, I think what is as impressive maybe as getting uh reducing your your downside risk is what it does to the level of stress that you've got. >> Yes. >> Totally. Something's working. How many people get stressed when something is working? >> And the and the loss the the upside joy versus the all the studies on psychology versus the ceilings of loss, they don't compare. The loss people stay with much longer. I think one of the most important things is if people can get in a position where they have this kind of diversification and if they're in things like private equity, the great thing about private equity is not only is it outproducing every market in the world for 39 straight years, but also its drops are shorter and they don't have to do that. Think about it. When the market drops, you're in you're in the general market, the open market. You all those prices go. If you're private equity, you hang on to what you got. You don't sell it, right? And you buy things during that time. So that's how they're making money. Think about it. They're not making money just hoping they're going to get the right price right now. They're buying something at the best price they can, a business, and they figure out how to improve it. They're bringing in a new CEO. They're bringing in AI. They're bringing in a new manager team. They're putting in new marketing. And they build that company up and then they sell that for a multiple either taking it public or very often to another private company. So, they have a I love that type investing because it's how I made all my money as a human in my businesses. You I have now 121 companies. We do $22 billion in business. Just my group together. And all of those companies we've done well because we found a way to add more value in that marketplace. We figured out what to do that no one else is doing more better and we found that edge and then the business grows geometrically. That's how these guys invest. It's not like the old days where they find something, cut it all up and sell off its pieces. That was the original kind of private equity. Those days are over and now they got to put their own money in. That's one of the reasons that we have the opportunities that we do to be able to be investors as as general partners because since 2008 when everything dropped, Bane had to prove to everybody, hey, it's worth doing. They said, okay, we're going to put our money in as we've done in ours. You might give them a sense about that. >> So, like Bane was the first one that really did a very large GP commit. Okay, that means the general partner who manages the fund puts in a bunch of their own money to show alignment with the other investors in the fund. Skin. Skin in the game. Okay, so they literally coming out of the global financial crisis, everybody's like, "H, I'm not sure what I want to invest in." So Bane said, "Okay, we're going to among our partners, we're going to put a billion dollars into our own fund." Well, that got everybody's attention like, "Oh, well, I guess you're aligned with us." And so that gave people comfort and confidence. That's very much the standard. Now, typically two to 5% of all of the money in a fund is put up by the people managing that fund of their own capital. So that way there is that alignment. And so as you think about a firm growing from a billion dollar fund to a5 billion dollar fund to a10 billion fund, they've got to have very significant 200 to$500 million of their own money to put into that fund, but they may not have harvested their billion and their $5 billion fund yet. So they will sell a stake to firms like ours where we have the ability to then provide them with the balance sheet that they need to go raise bigger funds, show more alignment, and they obviously have to sell a piece of their company to us to be able to do that. But if they sell 12% of their company, they still own 88. So everybody wins from that growth that comes from that capital. Just sitting on the on the psychology piece for for another minute. Scarcity mindset, abundance mindset when it comes to the way that people see their financial future, how does or how do you guys see a scarcity mindset show up in someone's investment decisions? >> Well, I was interviewing um I interviewed 50 of the the greatest investors of all time, but I also interviewed Mary Calhan Erdos from JP Morgan who basically oversees 2.2 trillion investments. And in everybody's case, I asked them, you know, what's the biggest advantage? They all talked about asset allocation. Every single investor talked about it. And she said, "Tony, the way I look at it is if I got somebody that's super riskadverse, I look at it, my my part partnership think I'm crazy." He goes, "I'll put them in treasuries because my goal is to make sure they get what they want emotionally as well as financially. If it takes them longer, that's okay. Some people, they're just they can't handle it." And you got to understand that because if you're investing so that you can eventually feel good, that you feel secure, that's >> and you feel miserable during your investment on the way to feel good. >> Yeah. So you've destroyed your life. And she goes, "So that's what I do. I like she said, I'm not dumb. I still get them some balance, but I I think of it as like buckets. Think of it this way. There's a security bucket, kind of a peace of mind bucket. That's investments that have a fixed return, right? Those are, you know, bonds. That's going to be a variety of things. Insurance, it might be your home. It's a place where things are going to go very slowly. There's very low risk, so it's not high returns, but low risk compounds over time. Looks like grass growing and then boom, boom, boom. We all know what compounding does, right? >> If I play you a game of golf and say, "Let's play 10 cents a hole." And then right before you swing, I say, "Well, why don't we double each hole just to make it more interesting?" You know, 10 cents first hole, 20 cents second hole, 40 cents, 80 cents. You go, "Yeah, there's 18 holes." Yeah, okay. You know, a few bucks, no big deal. But the last hole is worth $13,000, right? And the first beginning it's 20 cents 40 looks like nothing. In the last five holes, it goes like this. That's what compounding is. So even in the security bucket, you can get financially free. The risk bucket, growth bucket, risk, growth, most people think of as growth. That's the places where you don't have a fixed return, where you have unlimited upside and unlimited downside. That could be everything from real estate to stocks to bonds to private equity to anything you're talking about. Trading, you can lose way more than what you put in. You got to be careful obviously what puts. So the balance between those depend on a couple different things. Number one, when do you need the money? If you need it three years from now, you're not you can't be able to take too much risk because you don't have time to make it up, right? If you were 30 years old, you can make some big mistakes. You could have a lot more in your growth bucket, risk bucket, lose, and you got time to make it up, right? So that's the first thing. When do you need the money? Second thing you got to look at is what is your real risk tolerance versus what you think it is. You know, we I have a game we play in one of our wealth programs that we do and I'll say to people in the middle of the thing, I'll say, "Stand up." And I I turn some music. I'll make change with everybody. They go, "What?" I said, "Make change." And we play this little money song and people walk around, start taking money out of their pocket, and they're exchanging money. And and then they the song ends. I say, "Okay, sit down." And then I go on like something else. And always one or two people are really fuming. And they'll they'll finally raise their hand. I'll say, "Excuse me. Excuse me." And I say, "What is it?" They go, "That was not fair." I said, "What are you talking about?" They go, I mean, that person, I gave them a $100 bill and they gave me a five and I want my money back. And I said, well, who said it was your money? And I said, who said the game was over, right? And I said, and the real lesson is if a $100 stress you out and you're going to be an investor, you're going to lose. The greatest investors on earth are not liars. They will tell you, I'm going to lose. What I want to do is make sure when I lose I don't lose very much because I've got enough diversification in what I'm doing. So people's got to understand what their real feelings are about things. And then the third element that affects it is access to cash flow. If you are making $100,000 a year and spending 110, you don't have a lot of extra cash flow. But if you're making $100,000 a year and you're make saving, you know, $50,000 of your money, yes, you got more cash flow. We got a business that's putting more cash than you need it, you can take more risks, >> right? So, how much you put in that security bucket, how much you put in that growth bucket. That's really a an important philosophy because what everybody does is they think they can put in the security bucket and then somebody goes, "Oh, Bitcoin." Somebody goes, "Oh, AI, oh, something." And they get I don't do I'll take my security bucket and I'll put it over here in my growth bucket. And then when I make the money, I'll put it back over my security bucket. What we do tell people is when they grow in their growth bucket for people like that, we say, "Take a third and put it in your security bucket." So it keeps growing even faster. Put a third back. You can take a third and you can use that for other forces that we tal about as well as one example. But it's a it's an individual process that people need to make based on the criteria that we just talked about. >> What about on the other side? Someone who has an abundance mindset like can that make you a better investor or just dangerously optimistic? Are you talking? >> I've seen I've seen I've seen both. They both seen both. I've seen both where people are they think they're bulletproof and so they're just fearless and they make investments with no fear about the downside and it ends up working out for them which is usually the most expensive thing that can happen because then they believe that's going to happen every time just >> oh they're lost in the source. >> Yeah. They're totally I mean somebody gets blackjacked the first time they sit at the table. I mean they're to I'm a genius. Exactly. >> I'll give you a perfect example. I have a friend, true story, who uh went through my programs, my business programs, and he uh bought a taxi top business in San Francisco and he was one of the first people take it digital. Pre previous to that, the only things advertised was tobacco and you know, naked bars and things of that nature. Now he was doing movies and everything else. Well, he built it up and sold the thing for $200 million to big advertising firm. And so I said to him, I said, "How much are you going to put in your security bucket out of that? How much are you going to put back in your growth bucket?" He goes, "Tony, I give you so much credit. I tell everybody, I made $200 million based on everything you taught how to grow a business. That's the only thing. It's like I don't need a security bucket." He goes, "I'm going to make these new investments. I'm going to Vegas." And he he started buying advertising space in the air above spices in advance. It was actually a very brilliant strategy. And he goes, "I'm going to be a billionaire." I said, "I bet you will." I said, "You got to take a little bit off the table cuz if you're going to Vegas, that should be the first lesson, but then you take a little off the table." He goes, "Donnie, I love you dearly. I'm not doing that." So, sure enough, he calls me up about 3 years later. He goes, "I'm making a killing on some of that advertising. I'm doing so great. Now, this is 2006." He goes, "Now I'm building buildings in Vegas condos and I got," he told me the names of the celebrities. I won't mention it. So, his name stays private. And he goes, "I got these celebrities in." And he goes, "I so I'm going to sell out this first building up front using everybody else's money just like Donald Trump, like everybody else." He goes, "I'm going to be worth $600 million." I said, "I'm proud of you. How much are you going to take for your security back? I have the same conversation with him, right? He goes, you just don't give up. I said, you know why? I've talked about this for 30 years and I meet people come back 20 years later, 10 years later and say, "Holy [ __ ] I wish I would have listened." He goes, "Tony, I'm doing great." End of the story. 2008, real estate in Las Vegas drops 70%. 70%. Right? I talked to him. The second tower, everybody wants their money back. People walk away from it. The second tower is there. He's upside down. $400 million trying to avoid bankruptcy. I'm not mentioning his name because he says you could share my story, but I don't want any more lawsuits. He's starting all over and all because he just didn't understand this basic piece. So the answer to your question is most people, it's a mistake. The smartest people who take risks are doing an asymmetrical riskreward. >> Where do I have the least amount of risk with the greatest amount of upside? That's what makes people wealthy. That's the discipline that makes them wealthy. >> Well, and the the the abundance mindset is great because it means they're also not living in fear and they're not, you know, afraid of taking risk. So, we've had a saying for 25 years of our firm, what's the worst case scenario? If we can live with that, the upside will take care of itself. We have an abundance mindset. When we invested in ICON, we knew that it could very well go to zero. And we were willing to take that risk because we knew that if it worked, it could be completely game-changing, not only investment wise, but also for society. That is the reason why we could do that is because we had an abundance mindset. But we always respect risk and we're always afraid of not respecting risk because we know that risk will just whack you upside the head if you don't respect it. >> And when Christopher and I as a partnership, it's really nice because I see the opportunity, he sees the risk. So >> I'm the skeptic. the yin and the yang. >> But it's but it's so perfect, right? We bring things together to each other. He'll look at how many will we look at in a year now? It's more now. >> It's over 2,000 investments a year. >> And out of that, we'll make >> maybe 20 or 30 in in a typical year. >> Have 2,000 opportunities, many of which are extraordinary. But that's why there's a 96% profit ratio of all investments over 25 years. So, you have to have that kind of discipline. >> The supplement industry is full of products making claims that they can't back, which is why I'm such a massive fan of Momentus. Their co-founder Jeff Buyers played in the NFL and saw firsthand just how wildly the quality of supplements can vary. So he built Momentus around a higher standard. Every product from Momentous uses evidencebacked ingredients, transparent doses, and independent third party testing. Everything is NSF certified for sports. So what's on the label is actually what's in the tub. It's why Momentus is trusted inside all 32 NFL locker rooms. It's why I've trusted them with my own supplements for years. Best of all, Momentous offers a 30-day money back guarantee, so you can buy it and try it for 29 days. If you don't love it, they will give you your money back. Plus, they ship internationally. Right now, you get up to 35% off your first subscription and that 30-day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to livemus.com/modern wisdom and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's limme n.com/modernwisdom and modern wisdom at checkout. How do you think about uh taking some off the table for you to use in your life? I'm aware that much of this is what's your personal tolerance for risk and how much do you need and so on and so forth, but there's a certain archetype of of person and Bill Perkins wrote a book about this die with zero which which is [ __ ] fantastic. Uh there is a certain archetype, the sort of more misery person, maybe there's someone that didn't come from money, but as opposed to I now have it, I'll blow it, it's I now have it and I'm terrified of losing it. How do you think about advising people who are investing in the market? It's like, all right, you've done well. It's time for you to actually take some of this. >> This is so personally critical. I teach this. I kind of alluded to it. I said two buckets. There's a third bucket. I call it your dream bucket. And what I have people do is the dream bucket is all the things you call investments that really aren't, but they make you feel good. >> Like a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. >> Yes. Like hyperaric oxygen chamber. Like that SP3 Ferrari that you know, maybe it goes up from 3 million to 5 million. Maybe it goes down. that you want. >> Yeah. It's your it's your jet. It's your island. It's those things or it's a little condo that you have, you know, depending where your economics are. Um it's $50,000 of walking around money. It's what you do for jewelry. It's those things. And I have people create those. And the reason I create those is if you don't enjoy it along the way, most people if they own a business, they learn how to create more when they experience more joy from what they're doing as well. But we keep the same disciplines, but instead of only having those two buckets, we'll say when you have a big hit, put a little piece in your dream bucket as well. Or you get a big growth expansion on your growth bucket, put a third in your security, put a third back to reinvest and put a third in your dream bucket. >> And so what happens is I find people, different types of people, that type of person gets excited. Like I fortunately was around some brilliant people. Peter Gubber, one of my dearest friends in the world for the last 35 years. I mean he is a lifestyle guy and like he got me I'll never forget I was 30 years old he invited me to come to his place in Aspen a thousand acre ranch in Aspen to give you a sense of the valley >> quite uh highly sought after real estate >> $100 million for five acres right it to give you an idea that's just like >> so I go to his ranch and and I'm talking to him and he calls me up he says you got to come to this meeting and I'm not a networker if I can't add value I don't want to just go talk about stuff right goes Tony the most influential people I'm telling you I need to put you in front of these people proximities power come comes. So I lived in San Diego. So I fly to LA, right? Cuz that's the first leg. Then I fly to Denver. Then I fly from Denver to Aspen. They lose my luggage in Denver. And I get to Aspen. By the time I'm done, it takes 9 hours to get there. I arrive as the dinner's ending >> with no clothes. >> With no clothes with clothes on my back. And Peter said, "What the f is wrong with me? What? What?" I said, "What are you talking about, Peter? I've got here. I left at 6:00 7 this morning. I went from here to there." Then he goes, "You flo." And I said, "Peter, I'm not a billionaire like you." He goes, "Are you an idiot? You don't need to be a billionaire. You could charter and be here in 2 hours." He said, "You got to buy some crappy little get a Lejet. Get it's 2500 bucks an hour. For 5,000 bucks, you'd be here and another 5,000 buck." I $10,000. And my ticket was only 1,200. Yeah. And you weren't here. And he goes, "You should come up with a budget. The amount of hours you fly per year, you should come up with a budget and just charter. You don't need to own a plane." >> He said, "It will transform your life." And so I still didn't do it. And one night I was doing an event in Los Angeles and two events had collided. Somebody screwed up on the schedule. I finished at 1:00 in the morning. I got to be in Edmonton Edmonton, Alberta the next morning at 8:30 for 5,000 people and there are no flights. So I said, and I am I need sleep. I've been going on for four straight days, 12 hours a day. So I called my team. I said, "You got to find a jet. Find the cheapest, smallest little jet, whatever you got to do." And I said, "I got to They go, "Tony, there's no room to sleep in one of those things." I said, "If I was dying, if I was dead, what would you do? You'd put me on a gurnie. Get a gurnie in that thing." They go, "It'll never happen." We pulled it off. I arrive there at 2 in the morning. First time I'm on a private jet. I climb in this little thing. It's such a small jet. I can touch the captain, right? I strap into this thing. We lift off. We turn an angle. We look down at Santa Monica Bay. I look up at the moon. I'm all strapped in. I fall asleep for 4 hours. I get up. I'm on stage in time. I do the event. I go, "This is the way to live." So, it changed things. It changed my ideas like, "Okay, I'm doing all this business. Most of that is half right off anyway. Here's what the real dollars are and I figured out how to earn more." So, there's a mindset that comes if you experience a certain lifestyle. If you have ever had the privilege of someone else cleaning your toilets and you don't like that, you probably won't do that again. You'll probably find someone who's really good at that, enjoys that, and provide them an income and give yourself freedom to do something else. Having lifestyle is critical, I believe. But it's different for everybody. Some people miser, but you know, it's like um there's a there's a story about this this couple that saved all their money and they went on this little trip. You know, they've saved up forever and they didn't want to spend their money and they go on this cruise and but they bring cheese and crackers cuz they don't want to spend any extra money. And so every day they go on the trip, they meet everybody and at the end of the day they go have their cheese and crackers and on the last day they finally said, "Look, let's just splurge." Cuz you know in these trips they have these huge amounts of food and desserts and they whip for everything and they got the wine everything else and then they ask for the check at the end and you know how the story ends, right? >> It's all inclusive. >> Comes goes all inclusive. It came with a trip >> and they look at each other and go this is how we've been living our lives. That's how most people live their lives. They're so miserly. What'll make you do that more is if you actually get into giving. Because one of the things that made me grow more than anything else was when I started to tithe. Cuz I interviewed uh multiple people, but I read interviewed uh umh Templeton. And at the time, you know, he was the first billionaire investor. He was a brilliant man, such a good-hearted guy. I met him multiple times, interviewed him, and he said, "Tony," I asked him, "What's the secret to wealth?" He said, "You teach it." I said, 'Well, I teach a lot of things, which is, he goes, it's gratitude. If you're grateful about anything, you're going to be rich. If you have a billion dollars and you're not grateful, you're unhappy. If you got three beautiful kids and a wife, you're not grateful, you don't have a life. Gratitude is a secret. But he said, I will tell you this. If you really want to be wealthy, I don't know anyone who's tithed at least 10%. Doesn't have to be to to a religion, to something for more than a decade that didn't become incredibly wealthy. So, I'm proud to say I've done 17%. I've gone way above my my pay grade, but the rewards for me have been unbelievable. And I I started out feeding two families. Then I figured I was about 12 for 2014. I said I found out in 37 years I'd fed at that point 42 million people. It was pretty exciting. But I was like, what if I fed that many people in one year? What if I fed a 100 million people in a year? What if I had 100 people a million people a year for 10 straight years? A billion meals. And I teamed up Feeding America to deliver the food. And I did in eight years. And when I started it seemed impossible. Then I said, I'm going to do a hundred billion meals around the world because I travel around the world. You see people starving, right? And I recruited uh Governor Beasley who's the head of the UN of the World Food Program. He won the Nobel Prize. But when he started, there were 85 million people starving. Now there's 385 million people. I said, "We'll put together a strike force. We'll do this better, but we're going to make it measurable." I said, like, what's the number of meals we need for the next 10 years to be able to feed most people in the world? And then during those 10 years, we got to find the sustainable solution because you can't do charity forever. He goes, "Tony, I don't know, 40, 50, 60 billion meals." I said, "We'll do a hundred billion meal challenge for the 10 years." He goes, "Tony, you're never going to get 100 billion meals." I said, "I did a billion meals. I wasn't a billionaire when I started. I've been blessed. When you bless others, you get blessed." And I said, "If there's at least 99 poor people like me." So, we went to the Forbes um you know, philanthropy event. I brought him to speak. He's amazing. I spoke, people were in tears. I thought we're going to get 50 out of the 100. We're going to do half of right here. Five people signed up. But in the last four years by changing our approach, I started this year at 62 billion meals. Right now, I have commitments for 295 billion meals in four years and 63 billion have already been delivered. So scaling that has changed things. I said, you know, I I'm a private I have a private jet. It burns fuel. I don't want to be in congruent. How do I replace more than what I put out here? I burn 5,000 trees a year. Guess what? I plant 100 million trees. I not only just plant with them, but then showed the people there how to build crops every single month and built a forest farm for them in West Africa. Programmed this there. We my wife and I have like saw what's happening to some friends of ours, some trafficking that happened of children. No one wants to talk about it. So, I set a goal. I said, "We're going to free 30,000 children." I went on on one of these missions myself undercover with scars all over my face. It was most horrific thing I've ever done. >> I do not want to be faced by you in a dark alley. >> Well, you want to be faced by the people I dealt with in that dark alley. But I had with with a group of SEAL team six guys that are brilliant. Was an undercover operation. >> Something I'll never forget as long as I live. But when those kids were freed, it was one of the greatest gifts of my life. So we've now freed over a 100,000 children and uh I've got a target of a million. When those are your goals, you build businesses a different way. That's why now I'm doing $22 billion miss. I wasn't doing numbers like that before. I didn't have all these companies. It's like I have a higher purpose in building them. All those businesses serve people. They provide things that are life-changing in terms of value for people. They provide jobs. But in addition to all that, I have a higher purpose in what I'm doing. That will make you earn more, grow more, expand more, find answers you never found before. It It's like you need something compelling. If all you're trying to do is make a living or just cover your overhead, you're never going to find the answers, you're never going to push yourself to discover what's possible. >> Or if the only reason that you're earning money is to reinvest the money, to never actually take it out, to never actually inve. >> What do you think beyond the giving thing, which I know is probably the high, oddly enough, being selfless is the most selfish thing that you can do. >> You get the most reward possible. Beyond that, what do you think for a normal person who's maybe not quite at we're going to fix world hunger or or buy a jet? What are some of the areas where people can derive a lot of satisfaction, joy in life from spending money? Someone's being responsible. They're maybe doing some of the investment. They've got their one-/ird and 1/3 that third third. What's a what are some of the places that you think, hey, this is somewhere that you really should look at spending money to improve your quality of life that people might not think about from from the getgo? >> I still think here's what I want to say. I have I have a friend that was on an airplane recently. I'm not even 45 44 years and someone was reading one of my books and he said, you know, he always lets what do you think of the book? Oh, it was my my energy book, right, about your body and it's unbelievable and the stem cells and all these things and and you know, and he said, what do you think of the author? He goes, well, he's a really good guy. He donated 100% of the book. Watch by way we've done that with Holy Grail Investing, too. We don't take a dime. We give it all to Feeding America. And he says, "That's really cool." He goes, "But you know, he's rich, so it must be easy." And my friend Mike says to his, his name's Mike Keys. He said, "What if I told you I've known Tony for 45 years, and I known him when he was 17 and he had $20 in his pocket, and he didn't know where his next meal is going to give, and he gave half to the guy on the street that was begging for it. And Tony taught me something then. If you don't give a dime out of a dollar, you're never going to give 10 million out of 100 million. The first place you should start is giving. I have a friend that started out feeding two or three people. He's he's had a million he's had a million people now in the last 10 years that come on this little trip with me just finding little ways to help and make a difference. So you can start small and do things. And in terms of what are the things that people do that go in their dream bucket besides contribution, >> it's usually like little things. If you are at Starbucks and they've proven this because they can measure what happens now with the secretions in your mouth, the hormone changes, nothing comes close. The three things that give you the most joy are number one, experiences. Experiences are more than any toy or asset cuz those we get used to. But if you create experiences, people remember them. The second thing though is giving to someone else. If you go and you buy the next five people or 10 people at Starbucks their coffee you don't even know the transformation in your biochemistry the level of internal joy that people carry is greater than people that spend millions of dollars on something that are doing it for positioning purposes like oh I gave this money to charity type of thing. You can see a change in that area. Then what people do that gives them joy is all the little things. It could be just you know doing something special for your kids. It can be saying we're going to do a first class ticket to Europe this time instead of a a coach class just for this element. We're going to upscale something in our life that feels like a greater quality of life and brings us joy. If that joy and pleasure is there, you're going to have the desire to invest more, grow more, expand more, be be masterful in this area of your life. >> It's really interesting to think about the positive reward that people get from investing their money that nobody ever actually ends up withdrawing to improve their quality of life. I'm just continuing to put money in, continuing to put money in and never paying it back down. I think a few areas that people would probably be surprised. Uh getting a a maid or a cleaner for your house is >> 100% somebody to do the gardening. Some people like the gardening, some people think that it is hell. Uh those it is >> one of the first places that you can do not just what is it that I want, what is it that I don't enjoy doing and how is that sapping >> and what could give me and what gives me more time. Yes. Cuz probably the most scarce thing for human beings to outside of money is time. >> Yeah. >> Right. Because now so much of our time we allowed to control. I mean we used to spend 6 hours on screens then you know people are stuck at home during co it went to 13 hours and it has not gone back. People walking down the street staring at it. So it's not that we have less time. It's just that we allow everything else to engage us. >> And if you can free up time with a small amount of money it gives you a totally different experience in the quality of your life. The other thing that's a beautiful thing about that is it's not just the time that somebody gets. It's the opportunity that it creates. >> So being able to allow someone else to be able to earn a living, to be able to do what they're really good at, what they enjoy, what's positive flow for them, and at the same time is also rewarding for us. That's a wonderful thing to be able to do, to be able to make memories for our family, to be able to make memories for friends, to be able to give them things that they might not ever be able to do on their own. And it doesn't have to be expensive, but to be creative. So certainly for somebody who's an investor and they've done well to be able to harvest some of that and go, you know what, this was well-earned, I'm going to make sure that I pay it back either through charitable contribution or through making memories for friends or family or to be able to provide opportunity for other people to earn a living and to be able to feed their family. Whatever that may be, that why, and I'll quote him, the bigger the why, the harder we try. Ultimately that is what delivers happiness for people when they are looking at something that is just a nebular number and keeping score. It has to be for a purpose. That purpose is what ultimately cause causes them to not only make good decisions but also to have staying power to go this is worth it. It's >> interesting right? Money is a number on a spreadsheet or a number on your bank balance on your phone and it's only when you actually end up trading it in for something in the real world that it becomes anything. It's just a number. It doesn't. And it could be like you could look at it as dollars, but it could be hyperinflation South Africa money if you didn't know because until you end up trading it in, the number is kind of arbitrary. >> Yeah. It doesn't make any difference. A quick aside, you've probably heard me talk about Element before, and that's because I've started every single morning the same way for the last 5 years now, which is a cold glass of water with Elements in it. Element is an electrolyte drink mixed with everything that you need and nothing that you don't. It's a sciencebacked electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium. No sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients. It reduces muscle cramps and fatigue, supports brain function, and helps to regulate your appetite throughout the day. I genuinely notice the difference when I take it versus when I don't, which is why I don't shut up about it and also why it's used by everyone from Dr. Andrew Humeman to Olympic athletes and FBI sniper teams. The the good sniper teams, not the bad ones. Also, they have a no questions asked refund policy. So, if you don't like it for any reason, they'll just give you your money back. Plus, they offer free shipping in the US. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below heading to drinklnt.com/modernwisdom. That's drinklnt.com/modern wisdom. Okay. You mentioned about AI earlier on. What are the how are you thinking about AI as a future and what are the opportunities in AI that people aren't seeing at the moment? >> Well, we invested in anthropic and chat GBT. I mean anthropic when in 2025 start at a billion went to 10 and now by April it was 44 billion this year. There's been nothing like it. It's unbelievable. But I think there it's important to understand the thesis for investing. You know I asked most people if I said to you in the next 10 years do you believe there'll be more change to humanity than in the history of all of humanity? What would you say? >> Depends how RSI goes. Maybe. Maybe. >> Yeah. Most people would say yes because I've asked mill not millions tens of thousands of people. Then I say to them it's like what if I have a 10-y year goal to feed a billion people? It doesn't mean anything unless you pull it to here and they say like what does that mean this year? Oh I fed 42 million people in 37 years. I got to do 100 million this year to get to a billion. That calls you to action. So what I've been doing with people is saying, "So what if I told you in the next 36 months there'll be as much change as probably you've ever experienced in your lifetime for humanity." Almost everybody agrees, especially when you point out three things. AGI, we'll have AGI in the next 36 months. Some people would argue we already have it. That means one agent has more power in one category, chemistry, mathematics, whatever it is, than any human being. Pretty much there. Ray Kurszswwell predicted that this would happen and uh and 90 you know that we'd have this within three years of now back in 1990 right um and he's now I interviewed him the other day and he said I was conservative it's going to happen sooner in five to six years we'll have super intelligence that means one agent will have the power of all human minds combined when that happens the world changes so radically second piece quantum I was just with a vice chairman of IBM and we were talking about AI and I said I'm concerned that look there's people there's no safety because everybody's going for the trillion dollar target and if they don't do it there's the stick of China taking over right so there's not a look at this he goes well if you're concerned about that be more concerned about quantum he said because quantum whoever gets quantum first can basically make the other military defunct we don't have to even have the missiles we can get their codes and fire things off with all encryption >> he said it's and I and you we've all been here in quantum is 15 years 70 he said when I asked him when's it going to happen he goes between us and and and Google, we're the two drivers. China's a little bit behind, but not much. He said it's critically important. 36 months, you know, you go over and you see uh if you've been up to um to see Brett Adcock and his group up there at Figure AI, you walk in this building and it is like you're in the future. There's nothing but robots everywhere doing everything. Not robots like you see in China, you know, they're robotic and they do karate and you know, they're running a program. thinking robots that make things happen. It's happening right now as we speak. So all of this is happening now. Maybe it's more than 36 months on the robots probably for some of them, but at some point there'll be more robots than humans, right? Between him and Elon. You can guess that for sure. Not to mention what China's doing. So we're living in a time where there'll be more change than any time in history. So you have to say, what does that do to me? I look at my thesis and say that means if you don't have agents as a company in the next 36 months your chances of competing are quite small. They're not getting implemented right now because there's a fear level. 60% of you most CEOs think the AI is going to be the greatest thing in the world. But if you see what Microsoft just talked about 94% of these AI projects never get integrated. That's why they're not producing them. And yet the ones that do it disrupts it. You heard all the frontier companies were all talking about, hey, you know, it's going to disrupt jobs. You got to be prepared. And that didn't go real well. So now they're going to create more jobs. They are right. They will create more jobs, but in the time period they're going to disrupt those smaller jobs. And that's a mass number of people. They're going to need reskilling. So I look and go, we want to be in the position of helping companies bring on agents, not to replace people, >> to empower them. >> The way we get it, we I'm working with Salesforce. We've just now we had the people out here from uh the UAE because they want to make their entire government agentic. And so we're working with them. The reason they're working with us is we have a different approach. Our approach is we don't put some giant AI in the sky where you put everything there because if something breaks down, you don't know what caused it. We create these micro little AIs and what we do is we look at people's workflow and you find out that 60% of what people do is busy work. And so they don't like busy work, but they're caught up in it. Your head of marketing is making a PDF. I mean, what what the hell are you doing? Right? So, now what we do is we give them an agent that is their assistant. We have a scanning device that shows all of where they spend the work. It shows it and you put them to work. It doesn't replace your job. It makes you more powerful. That's a way of integrating. We got to reskill a mass number of Americans. That's a whole another element, not only America, but the rest of the world. And then we got to get people prepared for a world of uncertainty. Most of us have been living with rented certainty. The certainty, what I mean by rented is we're certain because we have a certain job, we have a certain income, we have a certain family, we have a certain way of being. All that goes away when your house burns down or when all of a sudden you lose your job or when all of a sudden somebody in the family gets injured or hurt or there's a disease or something of that nature. Well, we're going to see that certainty shattered by the pace of change. And so we have to prepare people for that. So myself, I look at this as a triangle of impact. So I'm in the business of bringing companies to Gentic. I'm doing it with Salesforce. I'm actually doing the integration for them at their upcoming event in September here. I'm working on getting people debt-free college education. We have a company now that's we're one of the biggest problems is how do you reskill people rapidly? Well, traditionally you try to teach a mass number of people and not many people have the skill as a teacher to do that. So you get one sigma improvement if you can make the class size small. There's always been the two sigma problem that we've known for 40 years, and that is you take an average student and give them one-on-one mentoring, they outproduce 98% of the class, but it's been too expensive. But with Aentic AI, now we have it. So, we take people now that just lost their jobs. We give them a guaranteed new skills, new life, no debt. Do you know what the largest debt in America is? Mortgage. You know what the number two is? Student debt. $1.8 trillion dollar of student debt. A 4-year college education takes on average 20 years to pay off. President Obama when he was a senator was still paying off some of his college debt right before he ran for president to give you an idea. So, we're going to create a solution in that area. And then I'm working with the guys that built calm, if you remember Calm, the largest app in the world for meditation. These guys built it and sold it for billion and a half, I think it was. I sat down with them and said, "Listen, we need more therapists." And even if you're the best therapist in the world, there aren't enough. And people are now going to ChatgBT and I'm sure you saw there's all these lawsuits. 1.3 million people a week asked Chad GBT about suicide. The other day there's another article about a woman who committed suicide and the Chad GT not only explained how to do it but it wrote her suicide note. Right? These are made for sick fancy. They're designed to keep you online talking. They're not designed to actually help you to change. So I built something with them where we have now technology that reads your micro expressions. So you're on screen. It see every emotion you're feeling. It's not just an LLM and it has auditory elements. Was spent $30 million spent to identify what auditory elements mean and what emotions you're having. So if you and I are sitting here and I say how's it going? You go fine or you go fine or you go fine. The LM just sees fine. But you and I see something completely different. So we can interact. And if it's something that's suicidal, moves it up to 988. So think about this. There's 11 million veterans in this country. We have 2,000 therapists for them. It takes four months to see one. Most veterans don't want to talk to a therapist. They don't want to talk to a female therapist. They find a lot of male guys don't. It's if it makes them feel weak. They're not going to go spend 4 months and 17 are killing himself every day for 90% less money. We can be there 24/7 365 helping them with something that's proven and has a track record. So I think you have to have a thesis like what's happening in the world and where is it going? Just like the thesis of there's going to be 5% more spending of of the GDP of all these countries, then that means you probably should be looking at something in the military side if you want to have a growth investment. What's your thesis for investing? That's mine for where I'm putting my primary time in energy, but we have a series of thesis of where you can make a difference. And so you might even touch on some of the other areas like energy. Well, I mean, when you think about the world of AI, it's touching every aspect of it. But one of the things that is absolutely incumbent is you have to have energy to be able to power it. If you don't have enough energy, you don't have the ability to do AI of any type, any form, any substance. And everybody's talking about that with data centers, but no one really wants to admit how far behind the production of energy we are. And to be very clear, we're for all kinds of energy from traditional to sustainable to transitional, whatever you want to call it. We're going to need all of the above in order to be able to meet the enormous demand growth. That's not just coming from AI. It's coming from the fact that billions of people are moving up in their economic situation. When somebody goes from lower income to middle income, they want a lot more power and a lot more energy. When somebody goes from middle income to higher income, they consume a lot more energy. So all of it is the same growth curve as far as demand, but what's not changed is supply and the amount of supply that's out there is basically flatlining or growing very very little. Those lines are expected to cross in 2028 where we will literally not have as much power as we need to be able to meet all the demand. You're talking about the data centers alone in this country will consume more power than all of New York City. just the data centers than that one city in literally three years to five years. That is something that we have to meet the demand of. But again, it's not just data centers. So we don't want to demonize data centers. It's the consumption of AI. And obviously if the United States is going to compete in the world of AI, the AI arms race, if you will, then we have to have the power to do it because I assure you that China and other countries are going to be putting all the demand uh all the supply out there that they need to be able to meet the AI demand. >> There's we need 50% more energy by 2035. 50% more than we're doing right now. So that means we got to use all forms of energy. And energy because of the way we've approached it recently has been a tremendous opportunity. give a sense of what kind of changes we've seen. >> Well, I mean, we've seen to where there were so many people chasing energy as an investment asset class to where people decided for reasons that they have the freedom to decide that they didn't want to invest in fossil fuels and traditional energy. So, we have a very simple metric that we follow called the reserve replacement ratio. And in the book, we talk about it. You know, anybody who's been a teenager or had a teenager, if they know that the milk is full at the beginning of the day, if they don't go buy more milk, by the end of the day, it's going to be less full, right? And eventually they're going to run out of milk. Well, that's exactly what it is with energy because this stuff doesn't last forever. It depletes. It goes away, just like the milk carton. So, somebody has to go replenish the milk. And so far in this decade, for every one unit of energy that we're consuming, we're only replacing 0.2 two of that energy. So we're consuming at five times faster the rate than what we're creating new energy. And it's not like you can flip a switch. It takes years to get major energy resources online. So we are way behind and unfortunately that's going to cross which creates the opportunity to where you know as an example in some cases because there's just not that many people investing in it. We're able to buy things at three times cash flow or four times cash flow and we've seen enormous returns because we're willing to invest all across the energy spectrum and that includes nuclear and other places where there's great opportunity but it's going to take all of it and those that provide the capital are going to be very well rewarded for doing so. >> I want to mention just to catch back also that anybody who's in a position like I have a the brother-in-law that's 60 years old. He's a software engineer. Uh, you know, uh, the Gary, gentleman who's the vice chairman of IBM told me his daughter was crunching code and used to get a million dollars for a 9-month project cuz she's one of the best in the world to crunch code. Now it's done by an agent in 4 days for free. She doesn't have a job, but she's pregnant, so she has a future and they have money, so he's not worried about her. But people are being disrupted. The biggest challenge is how do they get re-educated? So, we have an ability to do this. And if they go to unitedcolges.org, united colleges.org, they can apply and see what type of jobs are actually out there in demand, what professions they could tap into to retool themsel, and they can do it at their own tempo with an agent that knows everything about you, knows you love soccer, teaches you how to do that, adapts to your training capacity, and gives you that skill. So, I just want to plant that seed for people because so many people are being disrupted. Guy's 60 years old. He walks in, 650 people are let go that morning. He's one of them. Been with the company 25 years. No economic plan to back him up. No back no severance. And guess what? They took the whole thing of Gentic, sold to a Swedish company. He's got two kids in college. He's got a a wife that's a substitute teacher, makes $30,000 a year, and he's got a mortgage. What's he going to do? He can't go try and get some new education at that and pay for that piece and go further in debt. So, we're solving that aspect to give you an idea. So while there's opportunity everywhere, disruption still means if you retool yourself, you can take advantage. Anybody can still do well in this world. People say, you know, is it possible really to do well financially? Is the game rigged? The game is still a game you can absolutely win. But you got to learn and you got to take a little bit of time to understand what's possible. and you'd at least give yourself a short period of time where you say, I'm going to find a diversification of 8 to 12 uncorrelated assets and reduce my risk 80% while I'm working on my job or my career or whatever it else I'm doing. So that's my other business that's going to protect me cuz social security at this point is not probably going to be enough for anybody if it's even here later on for people to have a quality of life that they need. >> It seems like there's a lot of change happening in the world and that means that people are going to get scared. Lots of people get stuck thinking and overthinking a decision. They spend so much time worrying about what decision to make that their life sort of turns into a relationship with the internal drama of the decision itself. Obviously, you've spent a lot of time thinking about human psychology, human nature, and behavior. Have you got a framework inside of finance or outside of it generally in life for becoming better at the decision-m process? How do you think about making decisions? >> I have a very specific process. Um, it takes a little time to explain, but it here's its essence. The most important thing in decision-m is value clarification. When you know what's most important to you, you can make a decision. Most people are trying to hit multiple targets at once. I want to do this and if I do that, it'll work. What if I do that, but then that works, but what if I do? And they do it in their head. So, the first piece is it's got to be done on your computer on paper outside your head. You got to start with I call it OCMR. Real quick, O is you start with the outcomes. What are the outcomes? What do I what am I want from this decision? What's the most? And then you got to rate them in order of importance. They're not all equal. I want a job that's going to do this, this, and this. Okay. Well, is it the money the most important? Is it the lifestyle that's most important? Is it the quality of who you're going to be around? You have to rate the importance cuz you may not get them all equally. We want to make sure what's most important to you get. Once I do the outcomes clearly, now I need to know what are my options. And the delusion is one choice is no choice. Two choices is a dilemma. There's at least three choices always. And if you live that principle, you'll find it. When you usually get three, you'll find four or five. And I get people to come up with options they haven't thought of before. Go, okay, don't judge them yet. Right? So outcomes O okay, what are my options? C, what are the consequences? So now I look at each option and say, okay, what's the upside or downside of each one? And I make the list in paper, not in my head. You know, I have a actually computer program I designed for this. And so now I can see upsides, downsides. Okay, I've done half of it. Now, EMR, now I need to evaluate. I need to evaluate. Okay, there's this upside and the downside, but what's the probability of it happening? Like you might say, oh, I could lose everything. Okay, but what's the probability? Or, oh, I'll make a billion, but what's the probability? Is it 90%, 10%, 5%. That starts for you to really evaluate what your better options are. And now what'll happen is some of those options will be clear to you. They don't make sense. So, the M is mitigate. I might end up with two or three options here and I go, "Okay, well, how do I get the best of this one and this one? What could I do to combine them? There's a new way to do this." And I teach that process. And then the R is resolve. O O C EMR. The resolve. This is what I'm going to do. Because in the end, everybody wants to make a decision they're certain about. This will get you about as certain as you can get, but at the same time, there is no absolute certainty. I mean, if you're a leader, you're paid for making difficult decisions. I'm I was with General Schwarzkoff years ago when the first you know that's how old I am the first uh war we had in the Middle East there and and when we're dealing with Saddam and um he was brilliant and I asked him because he was very decisive guy and I asked him you know how is it you make the tough decisions and he said when I was a private he goes I worked for a general and this general was a tough guy he was a four-star general and he said one day they found out that there had been a decision that the Pentagon had struggled with for 20 years a very giant strategic decision and the general was finally going to make the decision what to happen. So they sent reams of binders of information in to have him evaluate and 4 days before they're getting all this and there's an army he said of like five people helping to organize this for the general and summarize it. The general had to fly overseas and he didn't get back till the night before. So he said, "General, we got to cancel the meeting. You're not prepared." He goes, "No, the meeting goes forward 8:30 in the morning." shows up at 8:30 in the morning and he's freaked out. It's like there's no way the general knows enough to make this decision. General says, "Okay, give me what you got. You have 15 minutes." They go, they give this incredible. Tell me your side. Give me 15 minutes. Soon as it was done, he stood up and he said, "That's what we're doing." Everybody stood up, saluted the general. This is a decision that I've been made for 10 years. Really strategic decision. So Schwartzkoff tells me, he said, "He's freaking out inside." So when everybody leaves, he goes and knocks on the general's door and says, "Permission to speak openly." Said, "At ease?" Goes, "General, I'm your chief of staff here. There's no way you know enough information to make this decision. You You mean there's rooms more of information for you to know?" He said, "Yes." He said, "How could you make that decision?" He said, "Cuz the decision needed to be made. No one's done it for 10 years. I got enough information to make a decision. I made one. Now, if we're wrong, I'm going to find out quicker because we're going to do something. And if we're right, we're going to move forward. He goes, "I never forgot that." He said, ' Then I got one more lesson from him. One time gentleman was leaving again and he said, 'You're in charge. I'm going to be on for 10 days. Make whatever decisions are necessary. And he's freaking out. He's surprised. He goes, "Well, but but sir, but sir, like why do I don't know what to do?" He goes, "When you come put in command, take charge." He said, "Rule 13." He goes, "What's rule 13?" "Put in command, take charge." He's leaving goes, "Sir, but but I don't know what to do." He said, ' Rule 14. What's rule 14? He goes, 'd do what's right. Do what's right. You know, you build decision-making muscles by making more decisions. Some people have a hard time deciding what they're having for dinner. You've been with somebody and everybody else is order and they still can't decide. You know, they have weak decision-m >> decide. >> And the more you decide, the stronger you get. But this OCMR, knowing my outcomes, because that's what it's about. value clarification, knowing my options, knowing the consequences, evaluating probability, mitigating to come up with a better solution, and resolving, that's the six steps that I use and teach people. >> And every single thing he just talked about applies to finances and investment management 100%. So, if somebody doesn't know what they're trying to achieve, are they trying to make a 30% return or a 3% return? If they don't know why that's important, if they're not willing to take the volatility that it takes and they don't look at the probability adjusted outcome of that investment, then they can't make a good decision. Which is why, going back to what I said earlier, it's all about investing based on percentages, not on dollars. If somebody's like, uh, it's a million dollars. That's a lot of money. It is a lot of money and that you don't want to lose it. But if it's 1% of your portfolio and it goes to zero, that's going to suck, but it's not going to be fatal, right? So, it's a liberating and it's freeing for somebody to be able to be much more analytical, less emotional. And every single professional investor will say the same thing. Emotion is the enemy to investment success. Period. So you have to be clinical and you have to remove the emotion and the only way to do that is have a consistent process that is based on percentages that say okay if this happens I can live with it and that worst case I can live with the upside will take care of itself and all of that applies exactly what Tony just described. >> Heck yeah boys. I appreciate both of you. Where should people go to find out more about what's going on? >> So he he's got a whole lot of different places you can go to. Ours is simple, cazinvestments.com. That's where you can learn everything about what we're doing as a firm and obviously he's got all the various things he's involved. >> Robrobins.com and you can see any of the businesses that we're involved in. And we've got an event coming up shortly here. We do only a few events a year now. Really large ones. So we have 17,000 people here in Miami for 4 days called Unleash Power Within. So if anybody's interested in that, they can reach out to us as well. Well, and I can just tell you this, having gone through the tape series in 1991 and not going to my first, you know, opportunity to go to a live event until 2013, don't wait that long. Folks that like and and follow Tony and have learned a lot from Tony, go to a live event. It's completely different than anything that you could expect to do just through the tape. It was life-changing for me and I know many other people the same way. >> What date is it? It's coming up in November. I think it's uh fourth, fifth, and sixth. Yes. >> Yeah. Boys, I appreciate both of you. Until next time, >> thank you so much for having us. We appreciate it. >> With you again. >> Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, the algorithm is certain that you're going to enjoy this one as well. Come on, give it a