“The Journey This Club’s Going To Go On Is Really Exciting” | Angus Kinnear Exclusive Interview

What have we shown the right path? >> It's the burning It's the burning question. >> It's You know, I speak to the to the free kids, you know, every day. And I would say 90% of our topics of conversation how we win more football matches. >> I think I think every club in the Premier League would be interested in what we achieve. >> Hello, welcome to Toffee TV. I am here at Hill Dickinson Stadium. That is real behind me. It's not an image. And I'm delighted to say I'm joined by Everton's CEO, Angus Kinnear. Thank you very much for for this opportunity to have a chat. >> Great to be here. >> The only place I can start is happily dissatisfied. A couple of words that were in a program before the Sunderland game and then the fans didn't really take to it very well. So, this is your opportunity, your right to reply. So, what do you want to say? >> So, I think the first I think the first thing is is that one of one of the big parts of my jobs is is communicating effectively with the fan base. And I think I've had a really good relationship with the majority of fans I've met since I've been here, certainly all all the organized supporters groups. Um but I think I'm disappointed about how those words landed. Uh they caused, you know, they caused frustration and confusion and and they weren't meant to. But I think there is some important context around them. The first thing is around timing. So, they've been sort of repackaged as being said at the end of the season. They weren't said at the end of the season. They were said before the Sunderland game. And actually, before the Sunderland game, I was really excited. We had two matches to go. I thought they were both eminently winnable. We should beat Sunderland at home. Spurs, I think, had won one or two games at home all season. And I thought we were on the path to to to European football. We were really, really close. And in fact, I think in the Sunderland game at half time, um we were in seventh place and and would have got we would have got a Europa League space. So, I think it would have been odd if I'd have been really negative before perhaps two of the biggest Everton games for for some time. >> Yeah. >> Um and you know, from a footballing perspective, it's very clear we we failed. There is nothing for nearly, and we know that at the at the club. Yeah. No one's happy that we we we nearly made it, but at the time I said those words, we were we were close. Since then, clearly we we failed. We didn't achieve what we wanted to achieve, and I did also say in those program notes we hadn't achieved anything yet, and and we went on not to. And there's been a lot of time post-season and in the run to next season as we assess what went wrong last season and how we put it right this season and make sure we go the extra step. I think the other thing is just in the broader context, the elements that I was happy about and remain happy about are the progress that we've made off the pitch. Yeah. I've worked at the privilege of working at a number of Premier League clubs, and I pretty safely say that that what I inherited and what the ownership inherited was an infrastructure that had very little chance of making Everton successful on the pitch. Whether that was from a regulatory perspective, from a financial perspective, from an organizational structure perspective, how the how the how the football side was was organized. All of those things needed to be put right, and I know the fans don't want to hear about stability or foundations, and they're not they're not our objective. But I do think that they need to be built to ensure that the the club has the has the opportunity to achieve what we wanted to achieve on the pitch. And I think if you if you look at where we are now, our revenues have gone up from 190 million to 265 million. We'll see more growth this season, which is going to come from a lot of it will come from how we use Hill Dickinson Stadium on a match day. And that's going to end up putting the club sort of seventh or eighth in the league in terms of its commercial revenues. Whereas historically Goodison were in the bottom third. >> Yeah. >> That's the first thing that's the first place you need to be. Once we can generate those revenues, and the free cash has been very very clear from day one. Every penny that we generate is going to go back into making it successful on the pitch. >> Mhm. >> And so that really does give us a foundation to start finishing in the top third on a regular basis, and that's what all Everton want all of Everton fans want to start to see because that then gives us the ability to go on and qualify for Europe and win things. >> I mean, obviously I understand that and it, you know, there's a lot of volume in what you're saying there. The frustration was obviously there was, as you've said, the Sunderland game there was an opportunity. I think, listen, the Sunderland game ends differently. If it had ended at half time, we won't go on to Spurs, that it would have all moved on from there and it was a frustration. I think the manager said at the end of the season in one interview, numerous interviews, one interview he couldn't understand the fans' frustration, but I think he was obviously disappointed from that and then there's been sort of there was a quietness after that, of course, but when you look back at last season do you think that in some respects we were our own worst enemy, because I think sitting at 12 months ago we'd have said, "Well, we'll have a season where there's not much drama and Everton there's there's some some signs of progress, then everyone's sort of pleased with that, but we got ourselves into such a great position. I think it's fair to say when we when I walked out of here after that Chelsea game there was more chance Everton had finished in the Champions League than not in Europe. So fans did feel like we did fail in those last sort of couple of months. Is that a fair assessment that we were on course for a much better season than maybe we anticipated and then the drop off is is there's much more frustration at the end of it as a result of that. >> Absolutely. And there's been a lot of talk about, you know, where are where are our realistic ambitions? >> And I'm very, very clear on that. The without going too much into the manager's contract or the or the player's contract, but the manager's contract is is is incentivized on European football. That's that's the target. >> Yeah. >> The players, when I sat down with with Tarky and and Jordan and Idrissa at the start of the season to work out the players' bonus pool, the players' bonus pool is not about, you know, there is nothing for staying up. It's all about European qualification. We sat down with the manager and we looked at how many point we split the the season into into groups of four games and we knew how many points we needed in each set of four games to achieve European football. I think in every group of four games we were on track right up until the last six. So we had the last block of four and then we had two sort of free hits that we'd given ourselves to get the points across. At that point I think we needed relegation form for the last six games and that would have got us European European football. So we've had to sit down and say how did we mess that up? You know, we we messed it up. The players know the players know that. The manager knows it. I think some of the work we've done in the transfer window demonstrates that we've identified that and we've looked at what's it going to take to get to the next level. So if you look at the the the the early work that we've done in the transfer window um Christian um Nørgaard is I think you only have to look at what Mikel Arteta and what Declan Rice have said about him. He is a he is a leader. Speaking to him yesterday and he was talking about uh how he enjoyed the role at Arsenal and I think he played an important part in them winning the title. But he's very frustrated he couldn't you know, use that leadership on the pitch. You know, we brought him in uh because we believe he can be that steady head and bring us that leadership which actually can help us get us over the line. Even in some of the young players, you know, Hayden Hackney one of the reasons, you know, he he appealed to Everton apart from his desire to play for us which was number one. We you know, we really were his his first choice. is also that he's captained Middlesbrough from from a young age and and you know, pushed them to be relatively successful and he just missed out on on on promotion. So we're trying to ensure that all the players we bring in whether they're young or old have the type of leadership and the type of character that we think we're going to need not to be in the same situation this season. That when we get to the big games where it really matters where where we wilt. And and and that was the learning from that was the learning from last season. but I think we set out, everyone was incentivized on qualifying for Europe. We knew the path to get to to to European football. I think we also knew that there perhaps wasn't expectation that that would be the case, but internally that was our that was our that was our focus. And I think when I am when I see the sort of negative comments about you know around how the season finished and and what I was you know what I was perceived to say about it, the biggest frustration for me is that people see it as that there's a lack of ambition. >> Yeah. >> And actually that's the stuff that really hurts. So I prefer that people said we made bad decisions or that we're incompetent or we don't know what we're doing. Because the am- the ambition is absolutely there. We talked when I when we first met uh um at the beginning of last season about you why I took this job. And you know we've we've we've spoken a lot since then. You know that I fell in love with football in the 1980s. And Everton were one of the most successful teams and the only thing that appealed to me about this job was the fact that we could perhaps recapture um that type of that type of form and and win things. And ultimately that's the only metric that matters for me. People can talk about revenue and fan engagement and all the types of things that that football clubs talk about nowadays. But the only thing that matters to me and the only thing that matters to to to to Dan Friedkin and the Friedkin family is that Everton win things. >> I mean that's a that's a key thing because that is something that comes up a lot. The the questions um you know uh uh Roma the more important project and things like that. And and is the ambition just for Everton to be mid-table? Is the ambition to to try to win stuff? Is the ambition to try to get Everton to win the league? Whether that's possible or not, you have to have that ambition surely. And are you saying that that ambition very much is there? >> Yeah, I've I've got no interest in being at a club which doesn't have that ambition. I'm too old for that now. I need to and I've supported Luke >> Longer than me. >> Um I need to uh you know I want to win I want to win things. That's what gets me up every morning. Interestingly, you know, whenever I you know, I speak to the to the Frekins, you know, every day and I would say 90% of our topics of conversation are how we win more football matches. You know, there are there's complicated things about ownership and regulatory issues and and lots of sort of ultimately boring stuff. But actually, they don't care about. They want us to win things and they definitely feel that they have the ability within their group. You know, they they they they turned Roma's fortunes round. They won a trophy. They qualified for the Champions League. And that's exactly their vision for Everton and I think there's there's there's certainly the the the funding and the ambition and the the organization ability to ensure that both teams are successful. >> We when we sat down last year, it was just after the window had shut and we talked about new signings and and metrics of of whether the success or failures. Maybe failures are harsh word, but how do you look back at the moment because I know I you can't speak for the manager because you but you don't pick the team. So therefore, you when you're bringing people in it it's all dependent on what the manager does the manager don't judge you on training and everything else of course and and how we get how we get points. But when you look back at those signings, how do you think it went overall? >> I think of the vision has been to to construct a squad that can win things. And you look at where we are, whilst whilst everything didn't go quite our way last season. We were short in certain positions and I think that was that was partly a challenge of what we inherited. We had we had 12 players under contract when I when I joined. I think historically we've always tended to have four or five players on loan, which is sort of unheard of for a Premier League team. So there was lots of work to be done. And we made some good inroads into that work. We didn't do we didn't do everything. And we didn't do it right. Yeah, yeah. And and know, I wish we had and we will. >> We will come on to that. >> I know I know we'll come on to >> We will come on to that. Don't worry. >> So so they were definitely, you know, it it wasn't it wasn't perfect. Yeah. We also in a position where we wanted to bring players who could have an immediate impact. And I think with Keane and and with Jack Grealish, yeah, we did that and they they they definitely raised the they raised the level. We had to make some we made some uh resignings of players to give us a level of a level of continuity. Yeah. With Idrissa Gueye and Michael Keane, and they both they both played their part. And then we brought some younger talent which um I think I'm really excited about. I'm I don't think we've made any I don't think we've made any mistakes in the players that we we bought. I think would we have liked them to be a little bit further ahead in the in the curve in terms of the game time that they've had and their impact on the pitch than than we would have done. But actually when you look at when you look at Tyler Dibling, who's actually, you know, I think he's the same age as Harrison Harrison Armstrong, but he comes with this huge transfer fee and has a weight of expectation on their shoulders. But I don't think anybody in football who's seen Tyler develop over the years thinks that Everton have made a mistake in getting Tyler Dibling yeah in any way at all. I think Merlin has started to show, I mean he's an you know, an incredible athlete. I think he can play in he just needs to decide what position he's he's going to he's going to play in. Um and I think Adam Astley has shown even though um uh he's had to develop a lot physically. So if you actually look at Adam's physical progression, he's gone from being at the bottom of the squad to in the top half of the squad in the last year, which makes a huge difference in terms of his ability to have an impact on the pitch. So when you look at the at the squad construction, I think you start to see a picture where we have some established, you know, good established players in every position. And then we have some really exciting young players pushing through in the positions below and and I'm very excited about the potential of the squad. And I think we did we did a good job last year. It was it it wasn't perfect. We always said that it would take another window to get it right and I think by the end of this window we're going to be in a in in a much better position. But I think more importantly we've got a team that compete can compete and will compete this season for for for European qualification and and hopefully in the cups. Um but also uh I think we're in a position where we've really got some some great young talent in in almost every position going forward. If you look at uh Jarrad Branthwaite and Jack O'Connell at at at center half. Adam at Adam at left back. You've got Harrison Armstrong Berlin in in midfield, Hayden Hackney, Tyreik, Tyler Dibling. I think there's clubs out there of of our stature would absolutely kill for that pipeline of talent coming through. >> You just to touch on what you said there cuz I remember last year you saying it the the plan was sort of a two window plan. What was the two window plan for them? Was that to get a squad that you felt could compete for Europe or was that to get Everton an established squad where you can forget about finishing sort of bottom half type thing and then start looking upwards. What what is the sort of clarity >> I think we I think we demonstrated in the first year we could compete we could compete for Europe. >> Yeah, yeah. >> We got it wrong but I don't think I don't think anybody would say that squad wasn't capable of qualifying for Europe. >> Well, the way it turned out Sunderland >> I think you know Sunderland did an amazing job in in in how you know aggressively they recruited to come up in that season and qualify for Europe but I'm not sure I'd swap our squad our squad for their squad. So I think we have a a squad which is we did have a squad last season which was capable of European qualification. But I think we knew it would we knew it would have some some gaps in it and it did have some gaps. I think some of those gaps were were exploited. So you know I think Jake did a did a a sterling job and and I know he doesn't want to play in in the right back position but but you know he gave his all for for a full season. We had a couple of really unfortunate injuries so Jarrad who I think is you know would be up there as one of our best players didn't play you know didn't play 90 minutes hardly all of the and then Jack who was leading the league in terms of assists has a serious injury is out for half the season as well. Yeah. >> AFCON as well. >> AFCON AFCON hurt us. The boys congratulations but they went to all the way. They went as long as they they spent as long as AFCON as they possibly could. I think Kayden was he was talking last night in the event. He was absolutely flying and then got his hamstring injury just when he was really really hitting form. So not everything went our way and we probably needed a couple of those things to fall in place to to get European football. But when you dissect the season game by game there's games we should have won in this you know, so I think we're I think we're in a good place but I think we're going to go into next season um even stronger more robust more capable of of of coping with injuries or or loss of form because we'll have we'll have more breadth and depth in the squad and I know um the manager will you know, I think players like Merlin and increasingly Tyler and and Harrison Armstrong now have the manager's trust and I think they'll be able to deliver when they're called upon. >> Why haven't we signed a right back? >> It's the burning It's the burning question. Yeah, you obviously we tried to get Kenny Tete a year ago and that was early on in the window and there was a feeling amongst the fan base me that we would get a right back and it didn't happen and you just said Jake O'Brien played and Jake done a a good job but I think um just from my perspective it's run its course. I think he's a center back. There's obviously been a lot of interest [snorts] this window so at the moment with a couple of weeks ago it is I I'm sure you're well aware that it's the burning thing on everyone. You know, the Prime Minister even referenced it the other week so you know, where are we up to in that and can you give us any sort of can you shed any sort of light on why the process might take so long for for fans who are checking every every second news feeds and and you know, a million links. >> Absolutely. So the first thing is it it's it's a it's a priority. Mhm. a priority position. It is as we talked about there were some misses in the transfer window last thing. I think we achieved a lot based on how much we had to do. We didn't get the right back over the line. It was It was made public that we that we tried. And it is it was one of the top priorities this window to to to fix. And I'm confident we will fix it. So So I think we're I think we're I don't think we're in a bad position. I understand the fans' frustration that these things don't happen quickly. But the key is that we get the right person in in the door and that we don't compromise on on that. And I think the way that the transfer window is working is we have to find players who who want to want to come to Everton and want to come now. And also we have to we have to make sure we have to try and navigate our way through situations where we might have a player who wants to join us. We want to sign them. But there needs to be related moves in the window, whether that's their team need to get somebody in, somebody else needs to sell somebody. >> Yeah. >> And if you look at the the volume of deals that are done in the transfer window, I think 70% are done in the last last two to three weeks. And there's a reason for that. It's because everybody is waiting for their the best option, for the most money, for the highest level club. And we had to make a decision about do we try and get somebody in early and they can enjoy the full pre-season or do we wait for the right person? At the moment we're waiting for the right for for the right player. We've got a number of of targets that we're we're talking to. They will all make us better. >> Okay. >> Um and I think >> And some more than others. >> Some more than others, absolutely. We We have We have We have a We have a priority order. I think we're we're in a position where where moving Jake to to to center half and having a >> Yeah, a right >> a right back having a right back a right back right you know that is their that is their prime position is definitely going to make us better. But we don't We don't want to satis- We're not satisfied with just that. We want to get somebody who who who can really improve us in that position. And and I understand the frustration as you said, you know, when the Prime Minister starts talking about it, you know that um you know that you you kind of need to pull your finger out, do you? But I don't think nobody at the club is is panicking at the moment. We always knew it might it might take this long. I think there's still lots of moves to to happen in a number of positions. And I'm pretty sure we're going to be in a good place when the when the window closes. >> Can you just shed any light on what it is like to sign a player? Because obviously as a as a fan you see a million links all the time, of course, and and you can you can cut through some of them, you know, crazy ones, but I mean, how does it if you can break it down for us so to make people sort of understand the amount of sort of plates you have to spin to get on >> So I think the first thing is it's a lot more targeted than than um than social media would have it have it look like. I mean, I spend a lot of my time saying to the scouting team, "Who's this Who's this person that we're linked to?" And and you know, and you read the when you read social media, it's written with such authority. It's like, you know, it's like a team has presented to them. They like the presentation, but they're concerned about you know, these people I've never you know, never met. >> of you. >> Um so actually the the reality is there is it's a much more targeted process. We're clear on the people that we we want to we want to speak to. Uh one of the criteria we we have which I think is is really they have to want to play for Everton. >> Mhm. Okay. >> And that is one of the things that that that does restrict us because I think because of Everton's form over the last four to five seasons and the fact we haven't competed in Europe regularly, we're not top of people's top of people's list. And I think we should be because I think putting on the shirt is a massive privilege and I think the journey this club's going to go on is really exciting. And so when you find people to play here Exactly, to play in you know, the best one of the best stadiums in Europe. So when you find people like Hayden who gets it straight away, Hayden's annoyed because he should have said it was he said it was his first choice and he says no one believes it. >> Yeah. >> But you know but it was. You know the conversations with Christian Nørgaard. Really really quick. Yeah he gets it. He understood he understood the project he understood what we're trying to achieve why he wanted to fit in. >> Yeah. >> And he wanted to come. Tyrique wanted to come straight back. Yeah he said that I want I want to stay here. >> Yeah. >> So we need to find players who who who want to be here. We're we're open to we're open to persuading them. Um but some of them are head you know some of them are hedging their hedging their bets and and so we're just we're just you know waiting for the right person but it's not it's not as untargeted. We're not speaking to hundreds of people. Sometimes you'll be linked with a player and you might have just made an inquiry to understand what the price is whether available and then it suddenly well that's the player you wanted and then his profile is totally different from this other player you're linked at. So it is it is more considered but it is also challenging because you're dealing with clubs and agents and players who have as many different variables making out their decisions about whether they want to whether they want to come to a club or not or whether finances are right or whether they're going to play or whether they like the manager. Um the manager they have or the manager that they're coming to. It's a whole that needs to be that chemistry there. So it's it's complicated and the delay all I can say on the delay is the delay is driven by the high standards of trying to get the best the best player that we absolutely possibly can. >> It's a it is a frustration isn't it cuz obviously you you've got a new transfer committee is that what you call it you know but I remember last year you you talked about you were just putting that structure in place and the window shut before everyone was in place. So can you give us any insight in how that works and is this is one of the things that is everywhere is that you know David Moyes is stopping transfers or Angus Kinnear is stopping transfers or whatever. How does that sort of work in terms of bringing a player in? >> Well I hate the word committee for a start so that's something we've >> that's how I see it but I don't know what it >> That's something that's something we've never we've never called it. >> What do you call yourself? >> I don't know what we do. >> Well, is it the G5 or something? What is it? >> I had a meeting with Ken Bates at Chelsea once and he had a sign above his desk which said Rome wasn't built on committees, it was built on rivers of blood. >> Okay. >> Um so I hate I'm with you. We don't like we don't have committees. >> Yeah. >> What what we have is these are these are big decisions. So when you look at um even some of the smaller deals, there are the transfer fees are tens of millions of pounds and then the contract value and the agents fees are tens of millions of pounds as well. So you're making decisions which are you know, 40 to 60 million pounds on every player that you you you bring in. And what I want to do is have as many experts around the table as as as you can to help with that help with that decision. So we have people who are excellent at data and can really look at everything a player's ever achieved and how that might fit with players that we've got currently. Um how that might benchmark against players who've come from similar leagues and what leagues and what type of trajectory that we're that we're on. We have a scouting team who are more qualitative. So they're looking at the players, going through hours and hours of video. So you know, when when I see stuff on social media saying this player's rubbish and I'm sitting with my scouting team and they've watched 300 hours of the of the player play. Um they're very very it's very well considered. We also have um discussions with the ownership in terms of the budget and how we're going to deploy the funds and one of the things that that that is important is there there are there are opportunity opportunity costs. So we can go and buy the best right back in world football and that means there'll be less money to spend on the center forward. So the funds aren't the funds aren't infinite and there are opportunity costs associated with that. And then we're also working in an environment where I believe the manager's opinions really important. So some European clubs and in fact some clubs in the Premier League are working to models where the uh the manager effectively just gets given the players and he coaches them on the grass and that's his job. >> Yeah. >> I think it's really important the manager has a say in signings so they can fit with his system, they're going to fit from a character perspective, that they're going to be able to do what he wants them to do. So David plays an important important part in it. But I don't think it's really very different from any other club. I think most clubs are having a number of those disciplines >> Yeah. >> being part of these decisions. Um, and in terms of sort of what's reported in terms of behind the scenes, there is natural tension in in in in the discussions in the meetings and I would I would be disappointed if there wasn't. I want people who's got strong opinions and care about Everton Football Club and want us to win more football matches and and uh we have that. Uh and there's tension around budget and age and potential and how well how how well proven they are. So you might have some you might have the scouting team who are um more excited about a young player who's who's developing but it's more difficult to evidence that from a data perspective cuz they haven't had the minutes playing at the appropriate level. Um but I think we've got a much better process than that than I'm that we that we inherited. Um and I think we're in a we're in a good position. I think the signings we've made to date they haven't been huge huge number of disasters. >> Mhm. >> And I think it's also it's also important to realize how challenging this is. So if we look at we did an analysis of the player of the of the teams outside of the top six and the transfer business they did last summer and the players that we would uh deemed to have been a success. So they're they're playing above average level, they're playing more than 50% of minutes and that we might have we might have missed out on. There's not many. >> Mhm. >> There's sort of 10 or 15 players maybe that you'd look at and said, you know, would we have liked Granit Xhaka? Probably. You know, he played he played he you know he played really well. Would you have liked Anton Stach at Leeds or Gudmundsson at Leeds? Maybe. But there's not hundreds of players that you miss out on. It's a fairly it's a it's a it's a fairly small small pool that you that that that in. And although I hear people say there are hundreds of right backs out there, actually when you look at the type of right backs who are going to be able to transition to the Premier League, >> Yeah. >> they're likely to come out of four or five of the top leagues in Europe. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, there aren't hundreds. There are There There are There are tens of them. >> Yeah. >> Um but I think I think the the uh the process is is is is is working well. And I think um um ultimately it will be It can be measured but it can only be measured by what happens on the pitch. And I think I think if we get the right back the the the best the best right back we can, no one's going to care that he wasn't there for Crystal Palace if he's great for Everton for the next three seasons. >> The a couple of things there then but that will ultimately bring questions as A, the money question you're talking about obviously having to balance budgets. We all will you know, SCRs out there. The most boring thing in the world, isn't it? But it's it's one is out there. So, is that more to do with that rather than the ownership not put money in? Because I think people are still or or a lot of people still sort of take the model from maybe 15, 20 years ago where the ownership could just put whatever they want in. Is it more based on the rules as as opposed to the Freidkins not put money in sort of things? >> So, I think I think the Freidkins in the last window put in more money than I think any any owners ever done in a in a transfer in a transfer window. So, I don't I don't think there is There is no There's no lack of funds. >> Mhm. >> But there is a very real challenge with with SCR. Um and I think it's been spoken about a lot. Simon Jordan talking about it. >> Yeah. >> I think the game has a has a structural issue in that the cost control was supposed to be originally about clubs not going bust. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um it was then about trying to create a level playing field. And it seems to have evolved over time to effectively create a two-tier system >> Yeah. >> where the clubs that were able to sort of move away as as as it was being formed and I'd include Man City and Chelsea in that have effectively pulled up the trapdoor >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And it makes it very difficult for the clubs below that to challenge. So, we're very conscious of that of that of that challenge. And what it means is that we're very focused on making Everton sustainable over the long term. Okay. And I have absolutely no criticism to Newcastle or or Villa because they've done a really good job in in in getting that early success. Uh but what they're finding is that it's difficult to sustain. And you've seen the window that Newcastle having and even the window, I mean, Aston Villa got Champions League football maybe going to lose three or four of their best players. So, we're trying to build a model here which can um give us a success now and is is ambitious enough to to help us succeed, but also is balanced enough to ensure that you're not in a cycle of boom boom and bust. And that you can be successful over the long term. >> And then the other thing will be the question cuz I can hear it now obviously that you're talking about the And then you said committee again then I apologize. About the people in the room, the the experts around the table. David Moyes obviously is in at the moment. He is in his last sort of 11 months of of the contract he originally signed. People will say if he's in that room making decisions on players that might be here if he isn't here longer, you know, longer than than sort of that. How does that work if you've got Does he would he have to in theory go with a 23-year-old right back who four out of five people believe is going to be Everton's right back for four years even if David's not going to be here for that time? >> Well, in theory >> Yeah, I know that. >> No, that's it. That's it. >> It's a really good question. And and that's that's the balance that we have to strike is that we want players who can deliver for David and play play in David's David's system. But I think the nice thing about one of the many nice things about David but he is he is an Evertonian at heart. Um and he can be sort of questioned and challenged, but I don't think anybody can challenge his his love his love for the club and his desire to to drive standards. And he is very uh cognizant of the fact that we're trying to build something for the long term. Yeah. you'll see in some of the signings that he is open to that. So, I don't think he would have you know, we could have bought players that were more proven and more ready with perhaps a lot lower ceiling and lot more than people like Merlin Rowle or Tyler Dibling. >> Mhm. Okay. >> I mean, those are everyone will see those are buys for the for the long term. I think we'll see the best of them probably not even next season or two or three seasons yeah, seasons time. So, it's about creating a balance, but I think David is is is bought into enough to what we're trying to achieve to realize that this isn't just about the team that we build for this season or or next season. He's tried to create a balance and I think when you look at what we've done so far, I think as you start to see the the squad build and you sort of see someone like Nørgaard, you know, in a holding midfield position with Jimmy Garner alongside him. But then Hayden Hackney and Harrison Armstrong beside them what you see um yeah, Ilion on one wing with you know, with people like Tarik or Tyler Tyler behind him. Uh Beto and Barry similarly, I think we're we're creating a good balance on a team which can deliver now but some really exciting potential which can hopefully give us a competitive advantage in in years to come. >> You've just mentioned Iliman Ndiaye there. There's a lot of there's a lot of sort of debate about his future. But as it stands obviously he's got 3 years left on a deal as far as I'm aware Everton haven't received any bid for him from any club at the moment. Is Uh I mean, are you in a position to be able to speak about him? Is it just a case of well, he's an Everton player and until he isn't he's still at the club as you were saying? >> He's an Everton player and at the moment all I want him to do is focus on beating Crystal Palace. >> Yeah. >> What I would say I can talk more generally and I think the the our general thoughts which is is not not surprising is we just want to keep our best players. Yeah. Players are really good players are really really hard to find. And so once you've got them in the building, you want to keep them there and that's a core pillar of our strategy. And I think we've we've demonstrated that because the first thing we did is we we resigned Jared Jared Branthwaite a new contract to to to Jimmy Garner, Jordan Pickford, James Tarkowski. You know, we thought we that keeping that core together was was really important. They're all players that could have, you know, left >> Yeah. >> to go to to other clubs. And so the same applies to all of the talent that we have, and that includes includes Iliman. >> Mhm. >> Um and I think it's been publicized that we've made endeavors to to try and get him to commit to commit to the long term as well. So without going into the >> I don't want to >> that into the individual sort of individual case. I think that's the important thing. I think what you also have to realize is that um all clubs you know it's challenging to keep your best it's challenging to keep your best players, and what you need to do is try and demonstrate that you have um you have the same ambition that they do, and they can they can deliver against all their hopes and dreams playing playing for this club. But that becomes challenging, and you as as I referenced before, you see it at Newcastle, you see it at Aston Villa, and Aston Villa qualify for the Champions League, and and you know, and you're losing a number of players. So we are we are conscious of the fact that that when once you get big offers for players, and players really want to leave >> Yeah. >> you're put in a difficult position because you have an asset that's potentially depreciating. You might be able to take those funds and deploy them better else elsewhere. And you also might have a player who doesn't really want to play you know, play for the club. So that's the balance, but so far I think Iliman was welcomed back with open arms into into into into training. I think he's been good in he's been good in preseason, and uh and um yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing him on Saturday. >> Two more before we're done. One, Brennan Johnson. Obviously, that seemed to come out of of sort of nowhere, but there was enough sort of little little bits that we saw at the weekend. He could have got a couple of goals. How how sort of did that come about, and and where do you see or where does the manager sort of see his place in the in the squad? >> I think he should have had a hat trick at the weekend to be honest. If if if it was talking about ambition, I think he should have scored three. Uh I think it was it was it was a great opportunity because I think I think Dwight had sort of felt his time at Everton was up and he wasn't getting he wasn't like getting the game time. He was he was a the deal fell through right at the last minute in in the in the the January window. He only he's only got a year left on his contract. So something we needed to needed to address. Um and the opportunity to get Brennan who um if you If you want to get excited about the season, watch his performances for Spurs um in the in the 24-25 season where I think he scored 18 goals. They won the Europa League. Um he is one of the things I think we've been missing which is a combination of of pace and goals. So I don't think he's he's not going to carry the ball in the same way that that um that Tyreek can or Brennan can. But I think uh um the number of balls that flashed across the goal last season and and everybody in the middle seemed to miss, I'm hoping that Brennan Johnson can appear at the at the far post and and put them in and you know, if we can create I think you know at Forest and and Spurs, he was he was in the high double figures. But if he could score 10 goals for us this season, I think it'd make a real difference. So >> And then the other one is Jack Grealish who keeps getting mentioned. Is there I mean is there any sort of update on Jack or is there is that another one that's just a see how it lies in in the next couple of weeks? >> So I I think two things about Jack. I think the first thing is is that is that Jack absolutely loved his time here to the extent that he he wanted to um do his rehabilitation in and around the club. I think he was uh he loved the fans. He was taken to the heights. Exactly what he needed I think it his his time in his career to to be felt that he was loved somewhere and he was definitely loved here. We've been in touch across the summer. The reality is he's a he's a Man City player. He's got a year left in his contract with Man City. Um I was delighted to see he's recovered from his injury. He's had a really hard, you know, hard time to get back from that injury. I mean, I think he was top he was topping the assist charts when he got injured in January and he was still topping them in like March. He hadn't played for 3 months. But clearly a really a really a really talented player. He's got a lot of affection for the club. We just need to be respectful of of his position with Man City and see how that plays out. >> Is that something we'd be interested in if that offer came in? >> I think every club in the Premier League would be interested in that offer. >> Jack Grealish. >> Yeah. >> Angus, thank you very much for your time. I think I think we've covered everything there. So, appreciate it. >> Thank you very much.