The iPhone 18 Ain’t Bad, It’s Just Big and Expensive - DTNS 5354

[music] This is the daily tech news for Wednesday, September 16th, 2026. We tell you what you need to go, give you important context, and try our darnest to help each other understand these crazy tech times. >> Today, we've got some inside info on flock cameras, and we do mean from inside. We're also going to talk a whole bunch about the Apple iPhone 18 Pro reviews. >> Indeed. I'm Tom Merritt. >> I'm Jen Cutter. >> Let's start with what you need to know with that big story. >> So, yes, all the reviews around the net are in for the iPhone 18s. And they are, you're not going to believe this, but they're really kind of positive. [laughter] >> Shocker. >> I know. It's just unbelievable. Uh Patrick Holland at CNET has my favorite description of the 18 Pro and Pro Max. He called them uh heavy boys uh because obviously they've got their aluminum unibody design going on. Uh but he also kind of spins that into a positive uh saying quote the heft reassures me though as the phones feel like they were built like tanks. >> Big boysum. Uh [laughter] for all the uh shutter bugs out there, all the reviews I've read and gadget 9 to5 Max, C8 and more, CNET and more, they all praise the uh the auto settings, especially when it comes to uh low light and night photography. There's tons of examples out there, so you can see the difference. Uh people have really gone all out in comparing all the photos from uh various models from the past 5 years. So you can really see uh where you're at if that's what uh you are interested in. And then the kind of consensus is from C8 CET they uh I don't know why I keep saying that wrong but for CNET uh they suggest that if you've got an older phone that you're happy with upgrade the battery rather than upgrade the whole phone if you're not a creative who's going to use all of the fancy features. Uh 9 to5 Mac was very specific. They said that if you have a 17 there's very little reason to upgrade but 16 and under users might want to actually consider it. And and Gadget fell pretty much exactly in the exact same place there. Yeah, I honestly I I always expect iPhones to be reviewed well. U but they are often more critical than this. There especially when they're when it's a uh sort of a talk is it is it the talk that's the less uh evol revolutionary upgrade or is it the tick? I I think it's the tick is the one where you change a lot and the talk in the Tik Tok settings. Anyway, this is not a big change over the 17. Uh, and yet these reviews are incredibly positive. And I think that's because this is a mature form factor and Apple didn't take away anything that works well. The things they added seem to improve things uh, according to these reviewers. So, uh, I thought it was interesting to see CNET saying like, you know, if you've got a 14 upgrade, anybody else just replace your battery. Uh, whereas most people say 16. I feel like the 16 is I have a 16 and it's still fine. like I I wouldn't need to upgrade it if I wasn't doing the show. Uh so I'm I'm kind of leaning more towards the CNut side, especially given what I saw of these reviews here. Did Did you any of your Spidey senses uh get activated uh reading this? Do you feel anybody's inside the bubble too much? >> No. Like because of the reserve suggestions to upgrade under like the very specific circumstances. I really like that everyone brought up the battery life. They're saying like, "Listen, the new battery pretty fantastic." Uh, people testing it test it really heavily and they're like, "Yeah, I had to charge it like three times in a week and that was it." And I was using this thing like 12 hours a day. [laughter] >> Oh, I love Joanna Stern's poke the pickle uh battery test. >> A dedicated app to poke the pickle as a here is how I'm going to test all the phones exactly the same way. >> Yeah, [laughter] [gasps] that's good stuff. Uh, so honestly this probably will be skipped by a lot of outlets because it's so uncontroversial, but I think that's one of the things that made us pick it as the big story today is, hey, everybody's talking about the foldable. Don't forget the 18. Uh, you may not need to upgrade to it, but if you are in the market for a new phone, whether you're coming from Android or another iOS phone, uh, look at this. Uh, it is a it is a solid phone if you can afford it. That is the one universal criticism that I saw on every review is it's expensive. >> Yeah. Like if I was still on the 11, I would have like given thrown my money. But because I had to upgrade earlier this year, there's like I upgraded to like a 16. So it's not like a full >> fancy thing. But yeah, uh for me, despite using the camera as much as I do and using it for video and stuff, like I love the new features. I love the tracking. I was like, "Wait, this thing is good enough that I can put it on a tripod on the bench behind glass and film myself playing hockey because it'll actually follow me. That's pretty great." Without having to buy a dedicated sports camera. I can't quite justify that as buying a whole new phone just yet. >> Yeah. And it really put shines a light on all of the financing options, you know, whether you're doing it through a carrier or with the Apple card or taking advantage of the new lease. >> Yeah. Americans have a have a lot of options that way. >> Yeah. Do you not have the I know you don't have the lease, but do you not have the uh the payment options through the cards or the carriers? >> Uh there are some and through the carriers, but as Canada remains three telecom companies in a trench coat, uh a lot of people choose to just buy them outright [laughter] and skip that. >> I and that that has always been my preferred way to do it until these prices got so big, right? And and then it becomes something where you're like >> buy direct from Apple because then I get my Apple Care in it and just deal directly with them. There's no middleman. I have luckily never actually had to cash that in. So, I don't know how how effective Apple Care is in here, but uh but yeah, >> I had to cash it in on my 16. Uh and it was great. >> Uh I cracked the screen. I sent it to them. >> Or did you do it just all over the internet? >> I did it all over the internet. They sent me a box uh they they actually sent me the new phone uh and a box to send my old phone back in. So, I transferred everything over, sent the one with the broken screen. done and done. Uh, it was great. >> That's pretty nice. Yeah, because I got my watch, like the watch is the thing I'm going to be waiting for the most reviews on because that one I am likely to upgrade because I have an eight, which just got kind of endalifed. Uh, but yeah, for the watch, u I really made sure to go through all the Apple Care stuff. I was like, listen, I'm going to wear this thing on the ice. I'm gonna get hit. Uh, what happens when this thing shatters? for the new unit at the same time we're waiting for you to send the old one back. >> That's not uh Yeah, it was a hold. That's right. They they put a hold, but they didn't charge. Uh and then once they they got the new unit, then the hold went away. So, it was it was reducing my ability to purchase things, which, you know, I wasn't going to hit that that limit. >> It was pretty fair. I'm sure they get attempted to be scammed a lot, so I get it. [laughter] But I have but they didn't actually charge. I think that's that's important. >> No, it is a hold. It's not a charge. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um but yeah, the uh o overall positive reviews on the 18. I guess the other thing to mention is Siri is still in beta. Uh nobody was raving about Siri AI. They everybody agrees that it's better than it was, but it's still not there yet. >> Yeah. I think like like the beta is getting positive reviews. I think they're still holding something back for the final release because they're going to need a really big push when this is out to say finally we are delivering on the things we have promised for the last two and a half phones. >> Yeah. And there are things that the 18 can do that the uh older phones cannot just because of the processing power and things like that. Uh but these reviewers did not seem to find that to be something to to crow about. >> But reduce typos is nice. I'm still waiting for I want a fix for spellch check. >> I think spellch check has lost its mind. in the last uh 12 to 18 months. So, that's what I'm waiting for. [laughter] >> Yeah, I can never decide how much is spellch check and how much is my increasingly degrading ability to type. Uh but it's it's a it's a battle to see which is worse for me. >> Uh DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. Thank you to what the if Paul Boyer, Derer, and Peruborg. >> Yay. Thank you patrons. [music] There is more to talk about today, so let's get to the briefs. 404 Media and Wired report on data shared with them by hackers who copied the data from a flock camera. They copied the camera storage, accessed its Android operating system, and recovered an encryption key in one partition that they used to unlock another section where they could access vehicle detection files, including videos and stills. It runs on a mid-range phone style processor and uses about 20 flock apps to handle things like motion detection, object classification, updates, and uploads. Like most uh current computer vision software, it can detect people, vehicle, stickers, and other graphics like patches. Those details are stored along with license plate numbers. Identities are labeled like person 0.53 and vehicle 0.90 and did not perform any facial recognition. The actual reading of plate numbers and identification of things like make, model, and color happened off the camera on Flock servers and the camera they found had about 21 days worth of data. >> Listen, Flock has has talked about the fact that this encryption key is on the device by saying like, well, you have to have physical access to the device to be able to get it. It's like these hackers said, "Great. Uh, we can do that. We know where the camera is." So, uh, I I think there needs to be a better way to safeguard this information. Not that we're going to have a massive number of people running around pulling these things down and stealing my information, but it's it's just not a great security practice, uh, as it has been shown. Otherwise, nothing in here is particularly surprising for me. I think there's a little more identification happening on the device than I expected. I thought more of it would be happening in the happening in the cloud. Uh and I think some people think it's just license plate detection and it's good to know that no, they're they're tracking objects. Uh whether that's a person or whether that's a car. But I also think it's important to emphasize they are not tracking identities here. They are just saying that seems to be the same car. So we're going to call it vehicle 0.9. The controversy comes once it does get into the cloud. If police departments use that data with other data they have access to, they can deanonymize that. Not that this is anonymous necessarily, but it's not identifying the car at that point, but they can take the license plate number and they can say, "Oh, well, that car belongs to this person." And that's where the debate comes about like, "Yeah, if you're trying to catch a criminal, maybe I want you to be able to do that, but do I want you to be able to do that to every car driving down the street, whether it's innocent or not?" >> Yeah. Like I don't think anyone that I know of in the past has ever complained, "Oh, gas stations are recording my vehicle every time I pull up and use the pump." And it's like, well, yeah, they don't want to get ripped off. And I feel like that is a fair exchange of services. I've never really had problems with uh these cameras in say parking lots. Also, as a woman alone at night, I would like to think, hey, maybe someone will notice something if something goes wrong, right? >> But yeah, I don't want them on every street corner tracking all of this stuff. But my problem still comes not necessarily from the camera, even though that is part of it. It's from the people with access to it doing the humans >> and the police side of things. It's like, please stop looking up your ex-girlfriends, guys. Come on. >> Yeah. And I I think that kind of we've talked about that before on the show is the the auditing of who has access and how that access is used uh has been increased since a lot of those stories came out. And I think that's something that that people need to know and and if they're concerned about this, you know, talk to your local police department, talk to your local council members to make sure that that that stuff is in place uh if they are using these. I don't I don't advocate knee-jerk get rid of them. Uh because I think they can be used responsibly. Uh and the problem is people say, "Yeah, but they're not being used responsibly and there's no chance of them being used responsibly." And that that be then it becomes a whole other conversation about trust in your government and your local officials. >> Uh a lot of people probably have are even already thinking of the stories of people in medical fields looking up people that they are not necessarily treating [laughter] in the states. There's all kinds of violations about that uh all over. It doesn't matter whether it's the the Canadian health services or uh in the UK and elsewhere. People with access to systems like this do occasionally abuse them. It's not necessarily that everybody is that it is a possibility and yeah let's let's fix those audits please. >> I I think that's a really really good point is this is not a unique to the technology. This is again it's the humans and the idea that uh we could somehow stop humans from trying to do those sorts of things is a lost cause. People are going there are going to be people try to take advantage of the systems they have access to. So the question isn't get rid of systems or the answer isn't get rid of systems. The question is how do we prevent that? How do we limit it? How do we catch the people when they do it? Uh and make sure that it is it is something that causes the least amount of damage. And a lot of people are uncomfortable with that idea. But that's all of society. Everything we everything we do, right? Uh has people who are bad actors. It's can you keep those bad actors limited to as close to zero impact as possible. Uh, lots of folks, speaking of keeping bad impacts as close to zero as possible, uh, lots of folks scrambling to make their statements on AI safety this week. Uh, here's a roundup of safety news as of today, Wednesday. Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg previously has resisted calls for pacing the development of Frontier models, mostly because uh, he's behind and so he he would not want to slow down. uh today now saying Meta delayed shipping news for several months to focus on safety and security. We didn't call for everyone else to do this before we would. We just did it as part of our day-to-day work because it was clearly the right thing for people and for us. Uh it's not my favorite way of phrasing that like we didn't do what you guys are doing, but but I think it's fair to say like yes, every company should take responsibility for their own products. Uh he also wrote that engaging independent evaluators and advisers is industry best practice. Honestly, kind of an uncontroversial thing to say. It's all a matter of the details. Jensen Hong uh also resisting calls for regulation said Tuesday that safety is paramount. In a lot of ways, it's job one. However, safety is an engineering problem. Uh in other words, saying it's not a policy, it's not a government policy problem. uh Google deepmind co-founder and current chief AGI scientist there has launched the deep mind institute uh the point of that organization will be to explore the implications of potential systems that can exhibit all the cognitive capabilities of a human brain so trying to get ahead of that problem it's not something we have now but saying if we start to see a development of that what do we do and Microsoft's head of AI Mustafa Sleman also a co-founder of deep mind uh published an essay on Wednesday arguing that frontier models cannot become conscious and specifically criticized anthropic for infusing its models with human-like characteristics which he believes make them more likely to go rogue. He says trying to make them feel like humans is bad because then they do things that are humanlike even though they aren't conscious. Uh it's a it's a very nuanced take on this but an important one if you want to look into it. Reuters reports that independent researcher Jonas Verman Miller uh discovered evidence last week that Open AI agents compromised two HuggingFace user accounts as early as May 13th. That's two months before the July brief uh that we have been talking about previously. The agents appeared to use the access to map the network. They might have been planning to infiltrate it but no breach was detected at that point. OpenAI said it has disclosed this incident privately to hugging face and Sai Kapoor and Arvin Narayan uh wrote on their AI as normal tech blog an indepth look at the response of the industry to these loss of control incidents like at hugging face. They think that these incidents are best viewed as a security story and advocate a layered approach to securing agents beyond just alignment. Everyone talks about oh let's make sure the agent is aligned with human goals and that's important. They say that's one layer but you should also have control of the agents downstream defense and resilience. So basically they are uh advocating for applying defense and depth to your own agents when testing them. I I think this actually nicely lays out two of the big discussions happening that get blurred together, Jen, which is what do we do in the case that we get some kind of human-like intelligence or recursive self-improvement in the future. Let's prepare for that ahead of time. And the other is is what uh these these folks here at AI as normal tech are saying like what do we do about now? What do we do? Let's secure things now uh with the agents we have now so that they aren't breaking into things. >> Yeah, I I said what feels like 9 billion years ago and still feel like like when it comes to the regulation thing, we're going to end up with at least some sort of intermediate step like for video games ESRB where it's like yeah, we're going to have this counselor and we're going to regulate ourselves. We're going to send everything to there first and then if that doesn't work, I think more governments are going to step in as they are currently trying to step in to various degrees when China came out and said some stuff and then the United States was like, "No, no, no. We're not doing that." And but that's when you're getting into the like nation level security stuff. I really like the points that the AI is normal tech uh mentioned as as you did because we've talked about this before in terms of sandboxing is like what are you guys running in your sandbox that you're not running this slow enough as a test to see each step as it happens first and then you can run it fast later but your first things for your agents before even your trusted people have access to it should be done as slow and as careful as possible. It's like when you have a puppy that puppy is going to find ways out of that fence. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of this is backseat driving. Uh, frankly, where where people after the fact are going, "Well, I never would have made that mistake." Uh, I and I think some of it is moving faster than you knew was safe. Uh, and and there can be arguments about whether you should have known or not, but at this point, well, it's pretty clear that it was too fast. Uh, I have heard very compelling arguments from people that we just didn't think it was capable of that. and you don't take every safety precaution with everything you do ever. So, we were taking what we thought was reasonable and it turns out it was more capable than we thought. Uh I I think this is an incredibly important teachable moment for that. A lot of good lessons to be learned. Uh and so yeah, I think probably the government role is on the current situation something like CISA uh something like a government agency that helps facilitate testing that defense in depth of your agents setting best practices uh that companies can follow sharing information doing doing that sort of things that we do for vulnerabilities right now. I don't think you need to have laws so much as facilitation. I think these companies really do understand that uh they don't want to sell an agent to someone that is then going to hack their somebody else and the company that bought the agent is going to be liable for that. That's just a no-go business proposition. As far as the future stuff, I think that's probably more of an international coalition is like what do we do if there's recursive self-improvement? Let's start talking about that now. That is along the lines of nuclear energy, that is along the lines of quantum computing. Like let's all get on the same page uh for that kind of thing. Yeah. Well, to to go back to the puppy thing, I was really good at raising puppies and then I got rabbits and it turns out rabbits are self-destructive in other ways because boy do those guys love wires. I found wires that I did not know. I had not protected, but the rabbits sure did find them. [laughter] >> I think that is perfect. Everyone thought they were raising puppies and it turned out they were raising rabbits. [laughter] They just didn't know it. >> That's my contribution to the cause. >> That is the best analogy I have heard. Yeah. Uh, y'all need to realize you're raising rabbits and those wires. Yeah, some take take a page out of Jen's book here. I like that. Uh, one last thing, uh, along this same topic. Following Microsoft's record 964 bugs patched last week. Uh, if you hear 974, there's some that are cloud bugs. On top of that, Apple released patches for more than 260 vulnerabilities across all of its operating systems, which is the largest patch cycle in Apple history. Uh none of these were being actively exploited, but Gartner Research Vice President Craig Lawson uh gave a talk saying, "Yes, we're seeing these crazy numbers right now, but we may see those numbers fall in 2027 as models like Mythos and others are used to find all these bugs in a more thorough way than previously possible. And if that proves true, he thinks security companies might want to stop measuring staff success by the number of bug tickets processed and start looking at the number of attacks stopped. Uh this is a very hopeful perspective, Jen. Uh where he's saying like, hey, if we're finding this amount number of bugs, we might get close to finding most of the bugs. Like we'll never find all of them, but but maybe it'll drop quite a bit next year. I think I I agree that it's optimistic, but it would be fascinating if old stuff is patched and now all we need to worry about is new zero days and not stuff that was in the wild since yeah, you know, uh 2024. Um what was it? Windows Server 2002 was kind of uh no 2022. I don't remember which one uh was end of life recently, but I was thinking like man, if you're using that kind of Yeah. Uh like that's going to have extended security support. So like people with that are not necessarily uh hosed just yet. But yeah. So does that mean that by you know 2028 that that's going to be an ironclad solved system? >> Maybe. I mean it is logical and I know the human mind just does doesn't want to think too optimistically for fear of being wrong. Uh but it is logical that there aren't an infinite amount of bugs. And granted you're always adding things to software. So you're always adding the possibility of bugs. But if we're just cleaning up all the old stuff we didn't know was there, at some point that number does need to drop. And and whether it's next year or not, I don't know. Uh but I'm with Lawson that, you know, if these things are really good at finding the bugs, pretty soon they will have found most of the bugs. And then granted, number number doesn't ever go to zero. Uh but it goes quite a bit farther down and we have much more secure software as a result of that. >> Yeah. as a thought exercise because in no way is this practical. I would love if somebody could aim all this stuff at like Windows 95 or Windows 98 SE and see if they can make like can you make that in this modern day. I mean, honestly, somebody has to be doing this. >> I need somebody to do this and then call us research. >> Let us know. That is good >> because I figured like that is a really good old system, but obviously finding the bugs does not necessarily mean that they able to patch the bugs, but uh but I want to know if you got a researcher friend who would do this, uh call us. >> That was an interesting thing about the Apple bug report is only two of them uh talked about using an AI model in the in the patch. Uh so so yes, maybe AI models are finding a lot of these bugs, but uh it wasn't disclosed in that in that uh patch result. I thought that was notable. >> If you have any feedback about anything that gets brought up in the show, please get in touch with us on the socials. We are at DTNS show on X, Instagram, Threads, Blue Sky, and Mastedon. And then for Tik Tok and YouTube, you can find us at Daily Tech News Show. Time for some quick headlines that once you know them will make you a smarter human being. >> Microsoft announced it will hold an event in San Francisco on October 7th to discuss how local AI will shape the next chapter of the PC. This will be with Microsoft CEO Sachin Nutella and CEO Jensen Wang. >> Yeah, Nvidia CEO Jensen Wang. They're going to talk about RTX boxes. Uh the devices head is going to be there too. Uh but yeah uh I am curious uh where they take this because this is going to be a new direction for Surface. Samsung is rolling out one UI 9 based on Android 17 to its Galaxy S26 series of phones. It previously was only available for the Fold 8, Fold 8 Ultra and the Flip 8. BUS announced a new e-reader, the BS Palma 3 running Android 16 with an anodized aluminum frame and a fiberglass black plate. It's $340, which is $60 more than the Palma 2 available soon. There's also a new tablet, the Boos Note Air 6C, which can flip pages 40% faster, has a 10.3 in color e in screen, also runs Android 16, and can access the Google Play Store. That one is available now with a case and stylus bundle for 580. They also announced an 8.52 in Note Mini C coming soon for $550. >> Yeah. When I mean I know Kindles are still incredibly popular, but when did books become the the the runner up >> quietly developing stuff. I I like their things. I've still got my uh my um Oh my goodness. [sighs] What's the Canadian one? Uh done by Rakutin. >> I don't know either. It's >> okay. It is the Coobo. [laughter] It's the Coobo. Thank you. >> Yeah, I have a discontinued one, but I absolutely love those things. But BS is the one thing I'm looking at as the alternative. Yeah, they're the stealth stealth competitor. Uh Canon has launched a retro style camera, the EOS R8 Mark II, basically the R8, but with fiveaxis sensor stabilization, improved autofocus, a body redesign, and a larger image buffer. Camera starts at $1,899 for body only, and you can pre-order it today for shipping in late October. Misilla is using Mistl models now for Misilla's browsing agent Firefox Smart Window. Mistl's models are trained and fine-tuned on regional dialects and cultural context. >> Nice win for Mistl on that one. Uh the information sources say that Apple is considering building servers again. Uh these would be built around its M8 chips. Currently M6 is the most advanced, not the most powerful, but the most advanced chip. So a couple of generations down the road. Uh but it would apparently possibly incorporate Nvidia NVLink Fusion uh to link the processors. Apple has not made servers since it discontinued the XServe in 2011. >> Open AAI is testing an ad format in chat GPT called sponsored agents. This would let people start a conversation with a business sponsored agent after clicking an ad in chat GPT. >> It's like chatbot on steroids. Okay, I get it. Uh, Typescafe AI released a Frontier model called Jev JV that outputs typed probabilistic decisions rather than natural language which makes the output easier to use by other software. Uh, one demo fed structured data describing a player's game state in Doom, of course, so it could then play Doom, but its primary use is probably something around customer service inquiries. Adobe Photoshop Elements 2027 and Premiere Elements 2027 are now available in standalone and bundled forms from Adobe and other retailers. This is just in case you were wondering if you could buy software without a subscription anymore. These are available for 100 US each or 150 for the bundle and they are valid for a 3year term. So you get it for three years. >> So still not forever but you know better than monthly I guess. Uh AWS says it is unable to restore access in some of its Middle East availability zones because of damage to data centers caused by the US war with Iran. Uh this is not a uh we're having a hard time. This is like you need to move your data elsewhere. It's not coming back to these availability zones anytime soon. >> HHMI Janelia Research Campus and Google Research created a conneto, a complete map of the 166,000 neurons of a fruit fly. The fly brain wiring map was released earlier this month and has been used by online modders to trade Bitcoin, parallel park a car, and of course play Doom. >> I mean, yeah, if it can't play Doom, it's not Yeah, it's not real. >> This doesn't count. >> We're going to have to talk to Dr. Nikki about that one. I I sent it to her and uh we're we're hatching a plan to dig into that a little more. Finally, uh, benchmarks of Apple's M5 Ultra chip showed up on Geekbench 7 Tuesday, confirming that yes, in fact, it is the Apple's fastest chip yet and is also pretty expensive. It's a twofer. We end every episode of DTNS with some shared perspectives. Today, Matt has some good perspective on the AI safety discussion, which we will keep having forever. >> Yeah. No, thank you, Matt. Uh, he was listening to the discussion around China and AI safety that Rob and Jason had on Monday. uh and said they touched on a thread that deserves to be pushed even farther, especially when looking at the analysis coming from the Wall Street Journal's China Bureau. Western AI safety debates remain heavily consumed by grand existential narratives, the sci-fi hypothetical of super intelligence running a muk and eliminating humanity. But Beijing's domestic framing of AI risk is completely different. It isn't existential for our species. It's existential for the ruling party. As the Wall Street Journal's China correspondent pointed out, Beijing's immediate concern isn't that an outofc control system will wipe out civilization. They fear it as a disruptive force that directly threatens their ability to control information. A regime whose stability relies on centralized information gatekeeping cannot tolerate an unpredictable non-deterministic system generating unvetted narratives. If the government loses control of the information ecosystem, it loses its grip on power. That shift in framing highlights why the two nations talk past each other on safety. Their risk assessments stem from fundamentally different priorities. Survival of humanity versus survival of the ruling regime. Understanding that distinction is critical. It explains why their regulatory playbooks look nothing alike and clarifies what each side is actually trying to protect. Enjoyed how that episode laid the groundwork on this. Keep up the great work, Matt. >> Matt, if you wrote a book, I would read it. [laughter] Yeah, that's a really good framing of of that discussion. I appreciate the extension of of what we talked about on Monday. That was fantastic. [clears throat] >> So, what are you thinking about out there? And by you, I mean you specifically. Are you listening to this right now? Then I mean you, because we would love to hear your insight into stories. Please share it with us over at feedback atailytechnewshow.com. >> Yeah, big thanks to Matt for contributing to today's show. Thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. You're the folks who keep us in business. You can become a patron, get the show directly, adfree at patreon.com/dtns. Go type [music] it in now. The DTNS [music] family of podcasts, helping each other understand. >> Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this broker. [laughter]