The IP Moat: How Sahara Lotti Built and Defended Lashify

Welcome to AdSe Week's podcast about the business of marketing, media, and creativity. In this episode, we're sharing a conversation recorded live at one of AdWeek's events featuring leaders from across the industry discussing the ideas shaping brands right now. Let's get into it. I'm Audrey Ken from AdWeek's AY's reporter. We're closing the day with a really interesting conversation about power, ownership, and beauty. Our guest is Sahar Lahi, founder founder and CEO of Lashify, the inventor behind the first DIY lash extension system and the holder of more than 750 global patents. Thank you, Rockstar, which you all get to try today. So, that makes it even better. [laughter] Tonight, we're discussing how intellectual property isn't just legal paperwork. It can actually shape culture, control category growth, and build a brand moat, so to speak. Sahara, thank you so much for being here. >> Thank you. It's a pleasure. >> Yeah. And so, before we get into the world word patent and people's eyes kind of glaze over, uh, I would love for you to set the stakes. What problem did you walk into beauty in 2016 that made you say, "I have to invent something totally new?" So really at the at the core of it was my own vanity. You know, I I got lash extensions done in 2004 and at the time you had to go to Korea Town in Los Angeles to get them done. And once I got them done, I was like, I am so cute. Like I was like, I look so freaking good. And you know, you get out of the ocean and you looked good. You'd wake up, you looked good. And so I was addicted, like genuinely addicted to getting my lashes done. And at one point I was going away on vacation and my lash girl couldn't get me in. And it was like I felt like somebody was like destroying my life, you know? And I was like, and I was like, I got to got to be way cuz I'm a DIYer. Like my core I I like to DIY things. So I was like, oh, I got to be I could put this on myself. And I started looking and there was absolutely no way to put your lashes on. They had at the time these little tiny hairs that were like these little clusters that had maybe five lashes on them and you needed super glue in order to apply it and like you couldn't do it cuz your eye couldn't be open. And so I'm like well there must be a way and so I started searching and when I tell you like I'm a shopper I search I'm a really good searcher and there was absolutely nothing. Russia, Japan, Korea like UK absolutely nothing than these little tiny cluster things. And so I wanted to invent I wanted something that looked just like my lash extensions. So naturally I took strip lashes and I tried to stick those underneath and I was like, "Oh, oh well that and I put them underneath because because I couldn't get them on top." And so I was like, "Well, that was a lot easier." I'm like, "But that doesn't look like lash extensions." So then I started going backwards and I figured out, "Oh, lash extensions are made of PBT, which is a synthetic silk." And so then, you know, it went from there. >> Wow, that's incredible. And so, can you explain kind of in layman's language what you actually invented, what we'll all be trying? >> Yeah. So, basically, and what I figured out was that I couldn't get strip lashes on. And for those of you that have tried them, it's a skill. Like, you need like a PhD, it's not easy. And so what I realized was that I needed a new kind of lash that instead of sticking on your skin would connect to your natural eyelash. So it was hairto- hair attachment, but it couldn't be so thin that I needed super glue because if I needed super glue, I was going to blind myself. So, what I realized is that I was looking at like how the lash tech puts on lash extensions and they come in and they isolate each lash and they they superglue cluster after cluster after cluster like little tiny. So, I was like, okay, let me go backwards. What am I trying to create? So, I thought, what if I take these silk fibers and I heat them together so that there's no strip, right? Cuz strip lashes have a strip. instead melt them together and make them super flat like a piece of tape so that they're going to lay underneath my eyelash. And then what if I come in and create a new type of adhesive that's like a mascara and I put that on and then this thing because they're both acryates in some form. It's a form of plastic are attracted to each other. And then I was like and I need to create a tool that has a horizontal clamp form. I mean horizontal clamp force. So it's like this versus precision like this. So then I had to create that and then I had to create a new way of applying them which was underneath the lash line. So instead of So it's like you're basically recreating a lash line. So when I invented all of those different components then you could do your own DIY lash extensions. >> I love it. >> Yeah. I geeked out. I really geeked out. Yeah. >> Which is why you had to get patented, right? >> Yeah. And so what people are holding in their hands right now, this wasn't private label from a lab. You prototype this yourself. And that's incredible, right? And you know, that's not something that a lot of beauty brands can say, right? I mean, u many like are actually marketing companies as you've described. >> That's what something a lot of people don't realize is that almost every single beauty brand is actually a marketing company. So Estee Lauder, L'Oreal, they don't own one lab. They don't own one pooling factory or one filling factory. What they are is they buy everything private label essentially. You know what I'm saying? Or they have a lab make it for them, etc. And then they come in and they put their money behind marketing. And so the lipstick, you know how they say, "Oh, well the lotion that you get at Neiman Marcus is the same as CVS." It's 100% true, right? So, the lip liner product that you're getting for $35 at Sephora is the same one that you're getting at, you know, Walmart for $7 because there's only so many ways and there's only so many labs. And so, they want to get all pieces of the market. So, they want the high-end, they want the mastige, they want the mass, and then they want the, you know, super low affordable, >> right? And Lashify wasn't that. Lashy was an invention, right? And so you've said beauty has this kind of unspoken belief that you know dupe brands can essentially just steal >> well because that's what they do because everything is about like I'm telling you like everything's a copycat of the other thing right [clears throat] so like one second you have this one lip liner well everybody has that same lip liner and everyone's fighting for that piece of the market essentially so there's this this thing in beauty where it's like oh dupes dupes are amazing no there's It's theft. Like, if it has a patent, it's just as illegal as if you make a knockoff iPhone, >> right? But no one's selling falsifones in Walmart. Like, they're just not. But they're selling false era, right? >> You know, and so and you and so I was like, whoa, why does everyone feel so entitled? Like, I got a patent >> and you assume that, oh, you have a patent, you're safe. >> You're not. It doesn't, you know what I mean? Really patents just mean patents are as valuable as your softball trophy when you know what I mean unless you're willing to spend a lot of money to fight. >> Right. Right. And it is very interesting to see certain industries whether it's right smartphones or semiconductors and that IP is very much protected. >> Well, they're male-dominated. Right. Right. And so the thing is is that a lot of people don't realize is every single nail invention, every single hair invention, every single lash invention, it's coming from women every single time. There isn't one. The factories come in and massroduce it. So they look at American IP, they see what's out there. Then they come in and they literally massproduce it. And all of the factories in Asia especially, they get together, they know exactly what they're doing, and they're like, "Oh, new wig style." Like one of my clients invented the upupart wig and it was like hugely revolutionary and then the factories come they pay the influencers more money >> and then instead of you know people spending $400 or $500 for a wig now they're spending $29.95 and they're you know taking her entire market share and they're like well it's cheaper but it might be cheaper but it's actually getting in the way of innovation in the United States because if you don't incentivize the people that are innovating they're going to stop innovating, >> right? Absolutely. And this phenomenon kind of came to a head for you personally when you know there was a major overseas factory >> um and you took them to court. You went to trial in Texas and you won. Tell us that story and what changed for you after that. Okay. So, basically there was one factory that I had met with early early on that like really pursued me and I was just kind of suspicious and I I just and I basically said sign sign an exclusive and they wouldn't sign the exclusive because they realized that by making my knockoff they would they could make a lot more money. So all of the American companies that were knocking off Lashi were being supplied by this factory. So they came to Las Vegas Cosmopro and they were showing and so we hit them with a with a yeah not even a you know basically saying we're going to sue you and if they receive it like they have no choice they have to show up if they don't they get sanctioned blah blah blah. So dragged them into court in Waco. We did a full trial and we literally slaughtered them because they were just lying the whole time, you know, and um that set a big precedent for a bunch of other companies to come in and be like, "Okay, okay, what? Like, how can we get a licensing deal with you?" So now over 60 companies are paying us licensing deals, but I had to like, you know what I mean? I had to get dragged through the mud to make that happen. >> Gosh. Gosh. And yeah, I mean, thank thank God that you essentially set a precedent, right? >> What's so crazy now is that now the girl that invented bounce curl brush, I don't know if you guys know that's a curly hair, right? Her she's getting slaughtered all over the place and now she went to my attorney and she's like, "How can I, you know what I mean? Can we fix this or can you help me?" Because now a bunch of innovators are like, "Wow, since you won, I feel like I can do it." I mean, I'm telling you, it's America's dirty little secret that a lot of people don't know about. You know what I mean? And then they they're you know I remember what who the person that taught me was the magnetic lash girl. Her name is Katie SOA. She came out with this incredible product and literally in a matter of months it was all over Facebook. Magnetic. Magnetic. Magnetic. And I was like what's And it turns out she was getting infringed. So she went from $15 million to 0. >> Wow. >> In a matter of one year. >> That's insane. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And so this major dupe brand, they also hired like a fleet of influencers to attack you. >> That's another one. So more Yeah. So more recently, a company called You Cool Me on Tik Tok was making tens of millions of dollars selling to Gen Z and selling like really shady formulas, but also, you know, products infringing. So we took them uh we got a we got an injunction against them and their way of responding was they had a big influencer program to basically pay their influencers to trash me. So let's say we injuncted them in June. By July I was homophobic. I was xenophobic. I was racist. I was it was like and it was to pressure me. And they they left a poster like drop the lawsuit or we'll destroy your business. Like and so basically I mean it just went on and on thinking that that would sort of make me back off. No, that just made me crazier. I'm a woman. I'm not I'm not backing off, right? >> You know. Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's interesting because I think Gen Z in particular really embraces this kind of new culture. >> It's the weirdest thing cuz Gen Z is supposed to like save the universe and be all about like doing right and then at the on the other hand they're like dupes, you know? So they're like, "Respect this, respect that." And then it's completely >> it's the hypocrisy is incredible. But I think people really don't understand what patents are. And patents are as simple. You buy a house, it's your house, right? And if all of a sudden a bunch of squatters move in, your house isn't worth anything anymore. So you got to get the squatters out. So I have 750 patents. That means I've spent a lot of money on my IP. if I don't get them out, the value just goes down. But it's also getting in the way of generational wealth. >> You know what I mean? Because there's some of us that are just creatives, right? >> And why is it that like the business and the finance guys are the guys that are getting rich all the time? What about the artists, you know, and the real creatives? Like, you know, it's it's on one hand, it's like we democratize lashes, but it doesn't mean we don't believe in, you know, a capitalistic. I mean, we're all here because we obviously believe in making money and, you know, >> so I think that we just we just need to sort of turn it around a little bit. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And you yourself come from a creative background as well. So you business >> Yeah. And so you kind of understand that IP is a big a big part of the marketing journey. What is something that like marketers don't understand about IP and patents? Well, patents basically you're creating the trend, right? And you're creating your own space and you get to create a moat around your business. You know, there is something to being the innovator. You know, like Dyson, they were very strong when it But you know, Dyson suction, right? You're like, "Oh, yeah. Dyson means suction, right? But Lashify, Lashify means underlash, right? But it's like I I had to fight a lot harder than Dyson had to fight if that makes sense. And it's also because it's easier to make, >> you know? What else did marketers I'm trying to think? >> Yeah. I mean, I think that a lot of people think that IP is just um legal speak, right? That they don't really have to consider it. Do you think that marketers should kind of regard IP as more of a >> Yeah, you know, IP is really important. And I think that I think that not only is it a legal way of protecting your business, but I think it also stands for innovation. You can't It's not easy to get a patent. It's really hard to get a patent. >> It's very interesting. So, if you're getting the patent, it means you're doing something new and original. >> Yeah. >> And speaking of new and original, and speaking of innovation, you're not just stopping at lashes, right? No. And you're going to create something entirely new. >> Yeah. So, this is kind of exciting. So, basically, I've been through so much, right? Like I've had to fight my ass off, okay? Like I've had to fight. I never thought that I would be fighting this hard for something that I invented. And the reason, by the way, I won all those lawsuits is cuz I had like video tapes where I was like, "Hey, my name's Sahara Lahi. I'm the founder CEO of Lashbi. It's going to change the whole world." And these are from 2016. You know what I mean? So I all of my journey like Tik Tok didn't exist, but I basically recorded myself the entire time. But anyway, so on Tik Tok there's all these really great innovations coming out and I see this girl and she has this click on nail invention and it's like nails that click on and off and I saw it and I was like oh my this is incredible. This is going to literally change the entire nail industry which is by the way 20 times bigger than the lash industry. And so I knew she was gonna get destroyed like in a mat. And I I know it sounds weird, but it's like I know it's very hard to explain how painful it is unless you you're in it. But it's kind of like birthing a kid and then having them take your kid from you. >> You know what I mean? Be like, "No, it's my kid." You're like, "No, it's my kid." So anyway, so I got in touch with this girl. She was 18 years old. It turns out she just lost her mom. She had this innovation and we basically brought her into the the Lashify fold and have incubated her and I'm starting a separate company and it's called Nibble. Nailed it by Lashify and it's all about these click on nails that are incredible. Like you know how imagine press on nails but you don't want to invest that much in a press on nail because you're gluing it. These are nails that you basically just have these mounts on your fingers and then you can click them on and off. like she was a volleyball player, she couldn't do sports. So, it's going to change everything for like girls that play basketball, etc. Piano. They'll be able to just click them on and off. >> Yeah, absolutely. And it's launching January January. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> It's very exciting. >> Yeah. I mean, it makes it makes sense cuz I have all this knowledge. What am I going to do with it? I might as well help other people. >> Yeah. And what did you see in Hannah? Right. Her name is Hannah. Teenager. >> Myself. because I'm a person that like don't tell me I can't do something. You know what I mean? Like don't I figure it out. So even with Lashify, I made the first sample myself. I I had my heating iron. I had my PBT fibers. I had my curler and I made the sample and then I sent the sample to the factory and that's how they nailed it. But like Hannah did the same thing. She taught herself cat design. She taught herself engineering. It was absolutely unbelievable. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So you guys should follow if you get it's called Nibble Nails and you'll see it on on Tik Tok. Yeah. >> Yeah. So you're not just selling nails, right? You're trying to normalize that innovation and beauty deserve protection. >> Well, let's look at look at all the influencers. Look at the I mean, not I have nothing against influencers, but look at who we're elevating. We're elevating these girls that are like, you know what I mean? And there's genius girls out there, too. And I want to make it cool to be really smart and to be really inventive and to be like, "Oh yeah, I'm an inventor." You know what I'm saying? Instead of being embarrassed about being an inventor, like, you know, Yeah. Oh, so and so, she's an inventor. Not just, oh, so and so, she's a rock star. No. >> Do you know what I'm saying? But like, cuz we're inventing stuff like And thing is is that it doesn't serve big company because a lot of these companies make an entire business off copying and stealing. I mean, we know this. They That's what they do. And so, they don't, you know, they're the ones that are like, "Oh, don't talk about your IP. Like, you're unprofessional." No, talk about it. Talk about it. Be loud. Be obnoxious. Let everybody know. >> You know what I'm saying? Because the only people that are benefiting from your being quiet is >> the is them. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. That's so well said. And so, you know, you're launching something genuinely new. What is step one? Is it to get a patent? Is it to build community? Is it to be loud on social? All the above. What advice do you have for other inventors in the room? >> For first of all, if you're going to get the patent, realize that you're going you're giving your recipe away. >> Okay. So, a lot of these companies study patents and seeing what's out there and then try to tweak it. >> If you're not going to spend a lot of money enforcing your patent, don't bother getting a patent. Get your get your money. Like, do it. Just come in. be first to market, build a community, be transparent, be yourself, take them on your trials and tribulations. You know what I'm saying? Like we've had issues in Lashify where like we have like really screwed up. Like for example during co, you know, all the ovens were down and so we had a set of lashes that >> they looked like tubes, okay? And I basically was like, "Yo, you guys, we really screwed up here and these look really mad." and I said to them and then it became like something we all laughed about. That's better than receiving them and thinking it to yourself. You know what I'm saying? >> So, it's like keep it transparent. Keep it honest. You know, lies catch up to you. Be yourself because if you're not yourself, you're going to attract some weird tribe that's not your real people and they're going to eventually leave you anyway. Does that make sense? It's like be you. Build community. Get to market first, you know, share your story. every it's why shows like American Idol do so well. People want to be on that journey with you. >> I love it. I think that's a great point to end on. Sahara, thank you. I guess you know that the main takeaway. Yes. Do you have a question? >> So, how are you affording to protect yourself in these hats? Yeah. Because women founders receive less funding. Yep. >> I've clearly got your own incubator when you're supporting other investors. M >> tell me a little bit about your journey for how you're funding and protecting yourself. Okay. So, you want me to tell you really really all in all honesty? Whatever you're comfortable telling me. My price was outrageous in the beginning. So, if I was getting something for $1, I was selling it for at least $10 or $20. And then I was direct to consumer. I didn't bring in any middleman. Said no to Sephora, no to Bloomingdales, no to everything because I didn't want to give 60% of my margin away, >> right? And so I did it all myself. If I could do it myself, I did it myself. Website, oh, I don't need to hire some guy and pay him 50 grand. I'll teach myself Shopify. That's the point. Marketing, no problem. I can teach myself Adwords. I can do that. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, you just as much as you can do yourself, you do yourself. And when you're making that money, you get on a subscription business, right? So, that way I didn't have to constantly focus on acquiring new customers. I had my subscription paying for stuff. And so, that's just what I did. like my my I between at month three we were profitable and I started small. I started with 300 grand and then by literally the end of the year I'd made $8 million and then the next year and it was all myself but I was smart about it. I didn't get caught up in like everyone wants to be like oh for 50,000 you can do this or for 40,000 no I'm going to do I shipped it myself. I did all of the distribution myself. I hired pe people I paid them hourly. The salaries were low in benefits and insurance was high. you know. Yeah. 750 Pat. Yeah. Incredible. Now, now Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't afford it at first, but once we started making money, we were making real money and I basically just that's where I put all my money. If I didn't, I've had I'd have a lot of money in the bank right now. >> Yeah. So, so what is next beyond this incubator? I mean uh as you think about how you extend your brand, how you build more companies, what what excites you about this process? Are you still inventing? >> Still inventing. Still inventing. Because like I said, look, in the beauty space, it's a copycat game. It's a marketing game. No one's doing anything original. And some are, but like one out of every 50,000 to 100,000 is doing something original. So the market's huge for people that have engineering minds that are really, really creative. And so I want to come in because what I know how to do now is how to protect the brand and I know how to scale a brand. So I want to come in and help all those people and of course make money myself, but also I don't want anyone else to feel what I felt. >> Does that make sense? And through that like this nibble Hannah, this girl's a genius. You know what I'm saying? And like if I, you know, normally a company would just take her innovation and copy it, but why? I've got the genius right there. Let me work with her, right? Let me elevate her and also elevate myself. >> Yeah. >> You know, win-win. >> Yeah. >> Clarify me. And I know you're not attorney. >> I might as well be at this point. I [laughter] >> can you clarify for me like when you're doing a P like country. So circled said passion said I Yeah. But how how does that work? Is there just like is there like you get a patent for the I know pat is cotton rush trade. >> Yeah. >> So basically you get a patent in the United States and then you get a PCT you have I think a year from that date to then expand it into other countries. So the if once you have that the other countries will respect that this is your filing date. Okay. So what's really important in patents is your filing date. Now, it's really easy to want to go and like patent everywhere. Like I had patents in Israel and like Russia. I'm like, "Yo, and please let those go. We don't need it." But like, for example, if you're if you know that China is where your stuff is getting made, you go directly to China. So, you get the patent in China. But you first get the PCT date in the main country that you're planning on patenting in. Then you you start getting patents and then you have one attorney that coordinates all of it for you. Does that make sense? And so it's not like you have to go personally find some guy in China, find some guy in Australia. Your one main attorney in the United States becomes like the hub, you know, and then it's really, to be honest, it's actually a lot cheaper to get the patents in other places because you've already written it in the United States. Does that make sense? Like the the US is where the big money is going into. And one thing I want to tell you about patents that I wish somebody had told me, the less precise you are, the better. meaning you want that thing to be as broad as possible. So let's say you invented um a glass. Okay, this glass is holding water. You don't say, "Oh, it's a shiny clear thing that holds water." Because at that point, the only thing you can protect is something that's shiny, something that's clear, and it's something that hold right. You're going to be like a vessel that holds some kind of liquid or not a liquid. It could also be powder. It could also be da da da. Does that make sense? It's like you want to be broad and so I had a problem that I thought I was like doing a really good thing by being details and no I hurt myself. >> Interesting. >> That's super sound advice. Um I hope that everyone comes to brand week later this week batting their lashes. Unfortunately I think that's all the time we have but >> we got lashes. Find some is a wealth of information. >> Yeah. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> That was a conversation recorded live at an AD week event. You can find more coverage, analysis, and interviews from across the marketing and media world at adweek.com. Thanks for listening to Adspeak. 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