The Incredible Story Of Everton Legend Mike Lyons

[cheering] Welcome to Toffee TV. I'm delighted to say I'm joined in the studio by author of Evertonian Simon Hart and Francesca Lions. More on the surname in a sec. All will become clear. But we're here to talk about Simon's new book, The Man Who Bled Bluing. What a picture on the front. Mick Lions. Am I okay calling them Mick? >> Michael. Mike. All names, Dad. All names are are there but a man I think you encapsulated being an Evertonian and playing for everything you know and in a world where maybe that's a that is well it is a dying art now isn't it? Players are very much commodities or and then they see the football club as a commodity don't they? They come in get paid and go home sort of don't really think we could level that at mions. So why why the book now Simon? >> Well you're right. I don't think anybody gave more of himself than than than Mick. Mike Lions. Um, >> why not? >> Well, Mike. >> Mike. Okay. Mike. >> Um, definitely not Mick. >> Okay. >> Not if you knock on the door. >> No. >> Not allowed. >> No. No. >> Lanca can tell us about that in a minute whether why that wasn't allowed, but carry on. Yeah. >> But, um, yeah. Why now? I'm part of the Everton Heritage Society and Richard Gillum, one of our members, >> three years ago, he he said, "Why's nobody done a book on on Mick Lions?" >> We've just agreed, Mike, haven't we? What do we call them? >> That's what he said. They were his words. So, why has nobody done a a book on on Mike? >> And uh one of us should do a book. And I thought, well, that really should be me cuz um >> I've got a connection with with Mike through my dad. Okay. My dad was um a teacher and he his first job as a young PE teacher was at Dillisal in Croxit were were Michael Lines as he was then was a young school boy and my dad took the uh the school team and they were really successful >> won the Echo Cup under 14s won then another one called the Martin Dale Cup >> and so because of that relationship and they'd kept in touch and Mike was brilliant at calling my dad up occasionally and you know ringing from Australia So I just felt I should do this book. >> Yeah. >> Um and met Francesca um >> three years ago next month to talk about it and to >> to kind of make a plan and Franchesca opened doors to different people >> and and that's why really and I think the timing now is it's 50 years this summer since he was made captain. >> Right. >> So it might have taken me longer than planned to get the book out but I think you know it's quite serendipitous. Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah. Yeah, Francesca, I mean, when Simon approached you, what what were your thoughts? >> Um, I think I was very excited. >> Yeah. >> Um, and it was just lovely for me to have something of my dad and his legacy put in writing, especially as Simon said, that family connection as well. I think over the years a few people have been in touch and approached about a book. >> Yeah. But then it just felt right with Simon because I know how much of an influence Simon's dad was to my dad and how much he meant to them. So >> it was a all seemed to be right feeling. >> Yeah. >> I mean where did you start? Is it was it is it just you know what your dad had told you and and going back to his school? Is it is it the the image of him you know playing anywhere forever and bleeding blood and all of that stuff? I mean you know because he was he was a big character, wasn't he? I he actually coached me when I was in the academy I guess uh on a Thursday night he took us for quite a few sessions he introduced me to a round pitch which I'd never played on a round pitch before Mick but that was a at the time you know this is an editton sort of he's iconic isn't he m Mike Lions Michael Lions is iconic at that because he he did he was that character a little bit like I suppose the most closest to it would be something like Coleman now who was spent a lot of time obviously at Evan and people would look that for standard and someone who was there for a long time but obviously there's been a difference as Mos and Evertonian who from Crox who who went on and played in Kapland and played everywhere for this football club. >> Yeah. Um I mean I I I I spoke to um Franchesca's uncle Joe Mike's older brother um this week and and asked him this question how to to youngerians. How do you kind of explain who who he was? And he he sort of he mentioned Coleman, he mentioned Tarovski in terms of that kind of >> the physical big powerful center back, wasn't he? >> And also bit of Leon Osman in terms of a homegrown local lad who's undervalued and who people don't really appreciate until he's not there. [clears throat] >> Um, >> but obviously >> he was himself more than anything. Yeah. >> You know, I think one of the places I started was with a photograph. Um, which I met Graeme Smith, who you remember? >> I do remember Graeme Smith. He's my manager. Yeah. >> Well, Graeme, um, you he loves Mike. Um, and they, you know, they coached together. And he spoke about a photo that used to be on on the wall at Bellefield um, of a goal Mike scored against Leads in 74. >> Um, diving header. He gets to the ball just ahead of Norman Hunter's boot, >> which isn't any old boot, you know. >> Bite your legs. Yeah. >> Kick your head, Norman. >> So, that's one of the places I started. Um cuz Graeme said that was on the wall at Battlefield for years. And any young player who came to the club, they'd say, "This is what being an Everton player is." >> Uh and uh Gary Megson remembered that story. Derek Mfield, different people >> over a series of years. So that was a useful kind of image to to have in my mind. And >> another image was the one on the cover of the book which is that's on a staircase at um Finch Farm. >> And uh Francesca kindly shared with me um before well for Mike's 70th birthday. Big Duncan sent a message of himself on that staircase addressing that >> that image of of Mike. So those two pictures I think were helpful to >> start with. Um, >> it was also brilliant to start or to to focus on the school days cuz my dad could open doors there >> and uh >> just to to know what the development of of Michael Lions as he was. He was a wing half, you know, he's a midfielder who scored goals. >> Okay. >> Um, when they won the Echo Cup at Disal, >> Yeah. >> he he scored a goal in the final. David John David Johnson was playing for Gatka. >> Okay. Yeah, >> you know, future Everton and Liverpool >> striker, >> but he was a goal scoring midfielder. Um, but my dad just said, you know, he'd do anything. He'd run anywhere, which obviously the Everton manager would say the same thing. >> Um, but also the the humor around him was incredible. His schoolmates, funny people. >> Yeah. >> And just his sense of fun really came through from all the people I spoke to who were with him at different times of his his career. Yeah, >> the stuff he got up to in Brunai was so many funny stories. >> Yeah. >> Which is where he ended up. But also the way he would inspire people >> cuz you know he at Everton he was he was loved but as we all know >> the the Everton crowd sometimes don't necessarily value no >> a homegrown player. Then he goes to Sheffy Wednesday and he you know he as captain inspired them to promotion back to the top division after 14 years. >> Yeah. >> Um and they love him there and he was really really appreciated. >> He was was he he was playing in the game the Neville South save. Mike was playing for Sheff wasn't he >> in that game from Barardi another Everton striker. And before, sorry to interrupt, before that game, he got he was presented with um the Philip Carter and the the chairman of Sheffer Wednesday whose name I don't remember, they presented him with um some kind of plaque cuz he just >> um played his 500th league game. So that was a nice moment. >> Yeah, lovely moment. But also earlier that season he came it was his first game back and you know what happened like Everton Wednesday in December 84 and he >> Yeah I know what happened on they get booed off. >> Um >> but I mean there's so many just great stories of people and one thing there was I should say there's so many people >> wanted to talk about him. >> Yeah. >> Cuz they admire and respect and love him. Mhm. >> Um and Bob I mean Bob Latch should I spoke to Bob and he sends me a message and said but we haven't spoken about this so he insisted on doing another interview >> um and uh yeah just you know spoke to more than 70 people and >> they all just wanted to give their time because of who because of who Mike is. >> Yeah. Yeah. Blancas for you where where was he up to in his career? Obviously when you were growing up were you aware that he was this Everton icon or a football or is he just dad and that was his? >> I think mostly he was just dad. I think I must have had some awareness cuz people would always come up to him and you know want autographs and everything. Um but he was probably leading he would have been at Sheffield Wednesday when I was born but I remember coaching days and going to Belfield when I was young. Yeah, that kind of thing >> being there I still remember the smell of Bellefield. >> Um but yeah, it's just I think he was just always dad. >> Yeah, it's a it's weird, isn't it? Cuz of the like the difference in footballers now to then. I mean, your life probably would have been very different had he been the the successful footballer now as what he was obviously in the sort of 70s and 80s. And for you, you've just talked about, you know, local players do sort of attract stick at times as well, don't they? I don't know whether there's >> whether there's like an element of je I don't know it's jealousy. I don't know. I don't know what it is or whether you we expect more cuz we know the sort of one of us or something. I don't know what it sort of is but that can happen. But his time at Everton could have been so he could have been talked about sort of in the same breath as Brian Leone if things would have gone differently. I mean we had we should never have lost the league in 74 was it? I mean I'm a baby I'm a baby so I'm trying to remember that but it's 7374 I think the famous car games that are in folklore um obviously we had that the trilogy against Villa in the league cup we had FA Cup semi-finals the Brian Hamilton won and was playing at Row for West Ham in the West Ham so there's all of these games that if they'd have gone if we'd have been the Devils club we'd have ended up winning leagues and throw they've all gone our way wouldn't he but obviously He he comes out the wrong side of so many near near misses really. And if we imagine if Everton would have won >> the league and won the League Cup and the FA Cup and even if we'd have lost one of the things he'd come out going, I won all three domestic trophies. You know, we still haven't won a league cup, have we? Don't think we probably ever will. Um we've got some jinx on us. So that would have been a very different book to write, wouldn't it? >> Yeah. Um, it would have been an I mean I'm I'm a similar age to you. So I I I was eight when when when Mike left the club. So in a way I was I was having to learn about the 70s >> through doing the book. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um [music] and he when he made his debut in March 70, you know, Everton were reigning league champions. They four days away from a European Cup quarterfinal. They had a eur FA Cup semi-final the following weekend. and he he at the end of the 70s he in his in his match day notes in the you know his captain's column he >> he said that he felt that Liverpool semi-final in 70 was a turning point for the club >> um because you know one up at half halftime Brian Leone got injured >> went off end up losing 2-1 >> and you know when when when Mike started his Everton career Everton had more trophies than Liverpool >> by the end of it they'd won 13 more >> in that era and we we and Mike had won none more and as you say been so close >> um >> I didn't even included the I mean wasn't here but you know I haven't even included that one as well which is I mean you make it you've just impressed me [laughter] that little bit more than that we lost that one as well when we were winning >> yeah but it being so close but I think one thing about the book is um >> I I interviewed your dad um 10 years ago for for Here we go >> oh yeah >> and And I said to him in that interview, you know, how do you think Eatonians remember you or think of you and and you know he he loves to joke that doesn't he >> and he says a jinx and >> but when I think about it now that that's so I I actually think he was lucky man >> cuz you know only five players played more games for Everton. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because they all won trophies. They didn't have those excruciating nearly misses. You know, he [clears throat] >> How many of us would would tick a box to say you're six on the list of Everton appearances? >> How many of us take a box to say one? >> Yeah. >> You played once and >> you captain the club for six years. And I mean, I spoke to Elton Wells. He thought that without without Mike, we'd have probably gone down when things began to slide. Nice. you know, that experienced group of players, Dobson, Ped, and so on. They went away and >> and you ended up with an Everton team with Mike as the leader and all those young players coming through. >> Gary Stevens, Paul Lodge, >> Sharpie, >> uh, >> Kevin Richardson, Mark Ward was there as, you know, as a reserve. Yeah. >> Um, and they all Kevin Rackliffe, of course, >> and they all learned from him and looked and and he was great with that that group of young players. >> So, I think that's another part of his story, the way that >> Yeah. he missed out then on on the success that came, but he he helped those players as they were young lads coming through and he always had time for them. But that I mean you've heard even now obviously David Moyes have talked about the importance of keeping Sheamus Coleman around a place that you know and last season he was a bit I love I absolutely love Sheamus but he was a cheerleader really cuz he hardly played a game but it was so important and even this summer had enough brought players in and talking about the importance of that older player to or experienced player to make sure the group stay together and obviously that's what that's what Mick was. I mean, I remember was it his last Everton appearance? Was we drew 3-3 with United? Was it was that not as or it was close at the end, but I remember being there and remember they had like Ashley Grimes scored I think and Remy Moses, what a player he was. But think we come from behind three I think Mike actually scored. Did he or did he set a goal up in that? We we drew 3-3. It was an unbelievable game. Did Did Steve Coppel score a free kick? I don't >> No. Remy Mo has definitely [laughter] and Ashley Grimes definitely scored in it. I know that an agent eat equalized or eat scored. It is just from me. It was a sunny day. I can just see it all in my head. >> All the pieces are here. Okay. >> Mental jigsaw. >> Right. Okay. >> But what? No. And it's a great example. It's almost a microcosm of his career because he ended up in goal. >> I remember he ended up in the game in goal at the end cuz Nev got injured right at the end. I remember. And that is if that doesn't sum him up. >> And and he he set up a goal for Sharpie because he was in the box and he crossed and he scored. >> Oh, so he did go. Yes. See, >> and he ended up in goal. That was Mines's, you know. >> What a crazy if you had to do it all in one game. >> That's what he did cuz I think we were I think we were behind three times and it were we Yeah. What a game. >> That's mad, isn't it? What a Imagine ending in goal. Yeah. You know, you've set a you've got an assist. You know, you've come from behind against United three times and you end up finishing the match as a goalkeeper. >> Not a bad goalie as well. >> You know, size of him. Kept a clean sheet. >> He did, >> didn't he? So, you know what? You can't really ask for more than that, can you? More than that, did [laughter] >> I mean the Echo used to call him Mr. play anywhere when he when and he >> in fact there was he started one season maybe it was it was >> 40 no wait 50 years ago 7576 he started in midfield and Billy Bingham said you know he's going to be a midfielder this season. >> Wow. >> Um so he he was always being moved around and I think he >> he felt that he he he suffered in a way for not not having a fixed position. Okay. He was he finished as the leading scorer in in one of his early seasons with you know the leading league scorer for the club because he was playing largely as a striker >> and cuz he never say no. I mean, your uncle Joe felt that sometimes he should have maybe complained more, but that wasn't it's not in his character. >> But then I suppose with stuff like that then you don't end up being the sixth most appearances, do you? Sometimes if if you said no to and the other thing as well in them days and if you say no to a manager, you're gone, aren't you? He had that respect, >> but especially for my dad, he was just so proud to be playing for his boyhood club, you know? That was everything for him. Just being able to run out and put the shirt on and everything. >> That's it, isn't it? >> That was everything. First love. >> Yeah. Well, that's it, isn't it? And again, like it's it's so different now cuz now >> kids coming through be thinking, >> you know, I'll have cars and loads of money and loads of girls and loads of this and then it's like, oh, and then I play oh, and then I play football. Whereas them days I I bet you if you you know you'd ask me he'd be like the money wasn't even >> money wasn't even a thing a because he probably get I remember speaking to Derek Mfield and Derek and he was like when we won the FA Cup in ' 84 his mates who were plastered were all on double the wages he was on as a footballer he was like they were all taking me out for a pint you know so imagine going back another 10 years for for mix sort of thing so the money was never the thing it was worth the evidence shirt and all that and nowadays I for some kids you hear stories now with players saying don't even like football you know Ben White's like I don't I don't even watch footy don't like it >> I don't think you could level that at me could you so >> that you know that's sort of how different that was he >> what was it like did he ever say what it was like going to Sheffield Wednesday and then going back to play against Everton has he ever referenced that cuz I wonder what >> because he was a huge Evertonian and >> he was devastated when he when he had to >> leave. But as Simon touched on, there's a great love for him at Sheffield Wed and they love him there and the amount of people who >> say things to me about about my dad and tell me lovely stories. I think that's quite special to have two clubs who absolutely adore and especially, >> you know, cuz he's the scouter going over to Yorkshire and but being successful, get them promoted. I mean, that's a huge thing, isn't it? To bring, >> you'd argue in some respects that's a well, for a football club it is. It's bigger to get a team back into the top like to maybe win a league cup if if you're talking about where you want them to go. It's great winning a trophy that doesn't beat it, but to get the team back to sort of the top level is a huge achievement. So, I mean Sheffield Wednesday must >> absolutely love him as well, but it is when you know you're not from there. >> Yeah. And he I mean his favorite manager or the manager he feels influenced him most is Howard Wilkinson, >> right? cuz he I mean he he's an incredible fitness fanatic as Franchesco will vouch. [laughter] I mean as as a boy was thrilled into it as a kid or was it Lee by example cuz you seen him. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think he tried to that might have been a bit of a disappointment to him though. [laughter] >> Just got rebelling against Fair play. Fair play. One of my favorites just as an example of this fitness fanat fanaticism as a boy he kind of set himself a challenge with his mates in the street to spend some like nine a whole day just running. So even when he even when he ate his dinner he he had to kind of be trottting around the kitchen. So >> how old is he at this point? >> This is primary school age >> and he just decided to use he then but you know he loved that side of football. He was incredibly fit and >> yeah obviously Howard Wilkinson was a big believer of you know the long run >> just outside Sheffield um >> incredible athlete >> um I mean I got the the training logs from Bellefield from um Billy Bingham was manager Billy Bingham I mean I think I don't know whether the players necessarily liked him but I think he was into >> fitness. Yeah. >> And um >> they had these logs of of of um preseason and and he's ahead of all of the you know 400 m incredible times and >> uh and he loved it. Um but sorry going back to Sheffield Wednesday um I they love him because he people like Gary Megson said to me and John Pearson who was a striker there >> although he's an Everton man you'd have never guessed that there was any >> he fitted in at Sheffield straight away and he gave everything of himself >> just as he had done Everton. So your original the question about what was it like he would have just wanted to win for Shafi land that was >> that was he was Mr. 100%. >> Yeah. >> Is that I mean after he finished playing and sort of what the career then he ended up in Australia and stuff. I mean what was that like for you as a family like with with his journey went after Sheffield Wednesday. >> It was it was difficult at times but you know it gave I went over to Australia and Singapore and Bruno with them. So it gave us as a family brilliant opportunities to >> experience different cultures, different places. >> Um, and it was nice to be as a family there as well cuz you know it's can be lonely football as well. So >> it was nice that we all got to do that together >> and he just loved Australia and >> loved Australia. >> Just decided that that was where he was he wanted to sort of coach and everything over there, wasn't he? So >> So why are you how are you back here then? Did you not fancy settling in Australia for it? >> Well, I did for a spell. Um, but then we came back here and just settled here. Yeah. >> I think my dad will be like he wants to come back now. So, >> thinking he will settle here as well. >> Get back over here. >> I'm not sure he'll feel about the cold, but >> yeah. I mean, >> few layers. >> Yeah. Although the the summers feel like they're getting anyway, so it' be a bit more like ours for in terms of like when you look back then with the stuff you've done with the book and you you're sort of assessing them at Everton. I mean a player who >> they think 50 odd he's one of Everton's top scorers, isn't he? Or >> he must have scored 50 odd goals. I think I've seen somewhere some he's quite high up on the goal scoring list. But as a center back, I know there's a thing now you still it's referenced every now and again when a defender got the M lion tactic or and you know you obviously other teams have done it in heaven still with Michael Keane now isn't it with with Moyes but that kind of thing. So when you look back with the stuff you've learned from the book, what is what's your over overarching sort of thing that you've taken about taken sort of away from his time at Evan? Cuz we obviously I seen him at the very end when I was just starting. He was coming to the end. What have what have you learned from that Simon? Cuz like you said, you're around the same age as me, so we haven't got any real memories of him playing. But he is folklore, isn't he? That's the pit the pitch you're on. And what a kit by the way. >> Yeah, >> the young bro. Even the prime minister likes it. >> Exactly. Bench runner in that kid the other week, didn't he? >> What have I learned? Um, I I've understood why he why I think icon is a is a is a fair word to use about him >> because um playing through injury repeatedly and I know lots of players did that at the time >> but you hear the stories about the the pain barrier that he would go through and you know that that absolute commitment and those those are words which are often used quite cheaply >> but with with but with my client it was, you know, absolutely the case. >> Yeah. >> You know, words like wholehearted and >> blueblooded. Um, >> and just what he gave to the team. You mentioned goals. He >> Sorry, I've I've got this fresh in my head. I'm not, you know, Evertonian tend to be very pedantic, but he he's between Steven and Leon Osman for goals. 59, which is >> 50, >> which is, you know, 13 less than Big Duncan. >> And he was a center back. >> Yeah. Um he was somebody who in a difficult period always hoped and believed and I know we're at the point in the season or you know when there is optimism even for the most miserable [clears throat] middle-aged everonians >> but um he never lost that that belief that something good was going to happen for Everton. Mhm. >> You look back at the old echoes and some reds would write in and say, "Ah, mine says this and Everton are rubbish." >> But he always kept the faith and I know again that's one of our kind of answers in it. Yeah. >> But he he embody embodied all that >> we like about Everton and yet there's the there's the double-edged sword of course which you spoke about the homegrown player. >> Mhm. >> You've [clears throat] got a few groans. You're from Crocker. You know what I mean? And yet ultimately people I think hopefully with the book will remember why why you should be so loved. >> Don't know if this is going to sort of upset you, but I think we I think it's important we do sort of speak about sort of where Mick is now. So >> if you go, I'll go. [laughter] >> I'll try and hold it in. >> Okay. So where where sort of where are we up to? Like how is he how's he doing? And and what's it been like for for obviously for the family? It's been terrible for the family. Um, >> is it is it dementia early? >> It's Yeah, it's actually CTA, which you know, sadly. Um, >> what is that? Sorry, Franca. Just for people who who might not know. >> I can't even pronounce it. Fair enough. >> It's a form of dementia, right? Yeah. >> But it's particularly with repeated blows to the head. Um, >> which is obviously a big thing, isn't it? Now, it's so important. Yeah. And he was a brave, as we're seeing. he gave everything. Um you can actually only diagnose it postmortem. Um but it's you know obviously there's a lot of research, a lot of evidence there now. There's >> um been a lot in the in the press recently. >> Um Gordon McQueen and Nai Styles all >> sadly happened to them as well and obviously my dad's generation and still the future generations. But it's been very difficult for for me and and family. But dad himself is, you know, he's still got a sense of humor. He's still I speak to him quite a lot, few times a day and we just laugh and mess about and everything. So he's still >> he's still him, still laughing, still got the smile twinkle in his eye, >> but he's just really forgetful. >> And so it's more his memory. he remembers like games and some things he'll read I have a strong memory about um but more recent memories he doesn't so it's just it's different how it how it can be >> but the most important thing for me especially with him being Australia me being here and me not seeing him is he still knows me >> he still you know we've still got that great relationship so >> hopefully that will continue >> and obviously is it like FaceTime and stuff like that so you you can sort of see each other which is a >> exactly and that's why it's it's really important for him you know he wants to come home and I would love him to be home so I can have >> that time >> more time with him >> yeah I mean as a because it is such a it's really is such a key thing and it's something that we're going to learn more and more about isn't it I think as time goes on >> well >> how does the family sort of sort of come to terms with that >> really difficult you know when I first I didn't know anything about it to begin with and it's only when you start doing your research and then when you know he he was diagnosed with it I couldn't even I couldn't speak I couldn't get the words out without bursting into tears really >> um but the more knowledge you have obviously the more used she can be >> um but it's just and you know my dad my dad is good in himself so that's a a big plus as well so he can when he was home a few years ago we were going to goods and he loved going to Goodson. And it was so strange cuz it was just like he snapped back into himself being there. He was getting interviewed and was just chatting away and everything. He hasn't been seen the new stadium yet. So that'll be special for when he comes home and we can see. >> Um but yeah, it is very difficult >> and it's you know it's not just my family. It's affected. It's affecting loads of families. it footballers are three times more likely to develop this and especially defenders and center halves are five more times likely. >> Okay. >> So the evidence is all all there and strangely enough well not strangely enough goalkeepers are just on the the national average. >> So it's showing >> and it's an issue that's not going to go away. It's >> it's always going to be there. So it's important to protect footballers at today's age as well which they are. there's more in place with concussion rules and everything especially from youth >> age and the head in the balls so it is important the more awareness the better >> yeah absolutely absolutely um >> what Franchesca said about center backs um if you think about the sort of the leading center backs of of Mike's era >> in English football Watson you know the Manchester City center back >> Chris Nickel who played against Mike in the >> League Cup final Gordon McQueen and you know they've all got this condition or had it. >> Yeah. >> Um so >> it seems fairly obvious the the connection. >> Yeah. >> Scary scary isn't it? >> Yeah. >> And obviously hopefully >> they can they can do more for I don't know the balls are different now but then sometimes they're saying they're traveling a lot faster so that can beat. Exactly. >> Either you remove head, which I don't think is going to happen. >> No, I don't think any players would want that. Part of the game, part of my dad's game. Um but yeah, but obviously you need to think about when they're not playing and the impact on the family and the people >> and hopefully more support and people like yourself who were talking about living with it is education for people and that's all you can do sometimes is highlight what's going on kind and hopefully >> provisions more sort of support for families and and people who are going through it. So you did really well you haven't cried which means I haven't cried [laughter] so that's always a good thing. Why should people buy the book then, Simon? Come on. Why should people get the book? This is your chance to sell it. Come on. If you haven't already, this is your chance. Go on. >> Um, I think to understand why why Mike Lines is is an Evertonial icon. Um and to not somebody who as well as given everything loved every minute of his football life >> gave so much to so many people >> and did it with such a sense of fun as well. I mean Colin Harvey told me about his smile. You've mentioned it and he says you know Morin my wife used to fancy Mick when he smiled. >> Only when he smiled. [laughter] >> Cuz he always smiled. >> Yeah. Okay. But um >> good answer. >> So um I think just a fun there's so many funny stories around your dad and he made people laugh and he did funny things and >> everyone had a funny story about him. >> Yeah. >> And you know trying to trying to for example trying to evangelize people in Brunai and to get them to play like >> like Mick Lions the Everton defender a group of young kids in Brunai. Is this why we keep we kept getting linked with the Sultan the Brunai by Ever [laughter] >> we also coached the um the prince's team as well Prince's team [sighs and gasps] >> cuz the Sultan preferred badminton so he used to coach the princess >> but just because there's so many funny stories and also I don't think there's any better way of understanding Everton in the 70s >> than the mix >> through the prism of of of Mike's story and and his experience cuz nobody played more games for Everton in that decade >> and nobody felt him more. >> So for for me, you know, as I said, I was learning about that era and he's the perfect >> person to understand what Everton was like in the ' 70s. And we we'd sign up for that now. By the way, >> it was a so-called >> dark period or, you know, lucky, >> but I wouldn't mind getting into a cup final or >> a cup semiinal league. Yeah, >> Champions League. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Mad how it's all changed. Where can people get the book then? Is it available now? >> Um yeah, they can they can order in now on the um on the website um which is um Mount Vernon Publishing. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, they can. >> We'll put the link in the description, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's it's it's out now. We're just launching it, you know, these weeks. Um as I said, to uh to coincide with the 50th anniversary of >> of of Mick Lions becoming Everton captain. Yeah. >> Fantastic. >> Thank you very much for coming in. >> Brilliant. Thanks for having us. Very nice answer. Thank you for coming. Thank you. >> There you go. Listen, the link it'll be in the description. Why not get your man who bled blue? And he he did, didn't he? Obviously. Um learn all about Mike Lions. Mick Lions. Michael Lions. Oh, didn't ask you. What What's the the Mick and the Michael? Come on. Let's finish on a a story. What What What's this story? Is he Mick? Is he Mike? What is he? >> It's Michael to his family. dad obviously to me, but if anyone um came to knock on his door when he was living at home >> with his mom and if they asked his there or Mick there, you no m slam the door. >> Slam the door on the face of his only >> his full title Michael. There you go. Um yeah, so you get your copy, buy it for someone, buy a Christmas present as well. You know, why not? Lovely, lovely stock and filler. H go to the link in the description. And thanks for watching. See you later.