Video summary
The podcast opens with a discussion surrounding Robin Dunbar's new study, which suggests that men require two nights per week of social interaction with other males to maintain their mental and physical health. This finding has sparked significant backlash on social media, where many women express frustration over the idea of "two guy nights," often conflating male friendship groups with toxic behaviors like excessive drinking or neglecting family duties. The transcript highlights a recurring pattern in these online comments, characterized by what the speaker describes as narcissistic whining that ignores the critical issue of male suicide and isolation. Critics argue that men are already privileged enough to have an easy life at work while avoiding housework, yet this perspective fails to acknowledge that male loneliness is not merely self-inflicted but a systemic problem exacerbated by a lack of safe spaces for connection. The conversation delves into the specific criticisms leveled against "boy nights," often referencing memes like "#IsItSaturday" which frame Saturday as exclusively men's time. The speaker acknowledges valid concerns regarding men who prioritize gaming or drinking over their partners and children, admitting that some male-only behaviors can be problematic. However, he argues that these are exceptions rather than the rule for healthy male bonding. He shares an anecdote about a house party where no women attended, describing it as a spiritual experience filled with arm-wrestling tournaments and camaraderie without the pressure to impress females or perform emotionally. This example serves to illustrate that men's gatherings can be positive environments for unwinding and sharing trivial topics like sports predictions or pop culture battles between fictional monsters, rather than being inherently dangerous spaces where plots are hatched against women. A central theme of the discussion is the disparity in how society treats male versus female-only spaces. The speaker points out that while organizations like the Girl Scouts accept boys to learn skills such as tying knots and kayaking, the Boy Scouts do not officially accept girls, despite many men enjoying their time there. He notes a similar trend with youth clubs closing down in London, which he links directly to rising knife crime among youths who lack male role models and are subsequently drawn into gangs due to the absence of positive community structures like scouting or sports teams. Furthermore, he contrasts this with women's spaces, which remain funded and protected across society, suggesting that men have lost their equivalent support systems at both the grassroots level (like youth clubs) and the executive level (with a rise in female CEOs), leaving them without dedicated venues for male socialization. The dialogue also addresses broader societal attitudes toward International Men's Day and the concept of male privilege. The speaker rejects false equivalences that equate being a man with other identities like race or ability, arguing instead that masculinity is a "mixed bag" of advantages and disadvantages. He criticizes the tendency to dismiss men as victims by attributing their struggles solely to toxic masculinity or patriarchy backfiring, asserting that this ignores external factors beyond an individual's control. The podcast concludes by emphasizing the necessity of dedicated spaces—whether physical like house parties or online forums—for men to discuss issues affecting them from birth through death without judgment. Ultimately, the speaker calls for a shift in perspective where male friendship is recognized as essential infrastructure rather than a threat to relationships, urging society to stop destroying these vital networks before they can help heal the epidemic of male isolation and suicide.
Read the full video transcript
what happened when Robin dunbar's new
study came out about men needing two guy
nights per week in order to stay healthy
I saw it mentioned a bunch of times on
various social media channels and it was
basically saying that men need two gu
nights a week sort of for their for
their health and their mental health um
obviously male suicide is a massive
issue especially in Western society and
one of the most sort of key factors male
suicide is male loneliness male
isolation so he he was looking into that
and he found that two nights a week for
guys is uh sort of the ample amount and
then as social media normally does it
sort of kicks off everyone goes crazy
you know everyone's whining making it
about themselves and everyone found the
idea of two guy nights a week for men
just too intolerable and then they want
to know how many how many nights for
women it's got to be seven at least and
all I want is time alone and maybe it's
great if they go so you don't have to
spend time with them and honestly the
comments on each of his posts are all
the same just a bunch of whiny
narcissists making about themselves and
just totally ignoring the fact that male
suicide is a massive issue male
loneliness is a key part of that and um
I'm sure you've seen the comments for
yourself Chris yeah it's some of my
favorites and this is why women don't
want to have their babies this article
was written by a
Manchild everyone caters to men enough
as it is we're tired of hearing you
whining the world is your playground and
you still cry all the time this is this
is like really great sort of self-
selects cuz those women are all taking
themselves out out of men's lives and we
all appreciate that too like we I do
like those are they all sound really
horrible people and people just sort of
they painted in a picture of their own
creation they were like oh you don't
want to spend CH time with your children
or your wives and no one said anything
about children not talking about fathers
talking about men as a general group and
the point was lost completely of male
isolation loness is a massive issue
right now and there's nothing wrong with
wanting to spend a bit of time of your
mates doesn't necessarily mean have to
be at a pub could be playing computer
games it could be like this uh it's just
the idea of men talking and sharing time
together is a really really important
issue and unfortunately just a mere
mention of that is too much for some
people to handle Can you steal man the
other side what's the best
interpretation of why people had a
problem with men getting two nights a
week to
themselves uh I I've learned about a
meme called is it Saturdays after the
boys which became like a toxic meme
where the idea was that Saturday was
supposed to be the boy night and I I
know i' I've dated quite a few women
that have have had really fair
complaints about men that they dated
where they play Xbox every single night
or they do go and see the boys every
single every other night and get drunk
and hung over the next day and like like
all things if you if you peel back all
the outrage and hysteria there is
actually a fair point and I do feel like
that there there are some valid
criticisms of men spending too much time
together I I don't bind to the whole
toxicity of male only spaces I think
male only spaces are really important
part of men understanding each other
male bonding male socialization feel the
exact same way about women spaces but I
feel like there's a lot of women out
there who have a very have had a very
negative set of experiences of sort
dating men who are not given the time
they want or deserve uh so I see I think
there's probably a fair reason behind it
I just wish they would tone it down a
little bit but why is it why what what
do you think triggered that issue is it
just more sort of low resolution
thinking about male privilege oh well
they've already got it easy in the
office and then they're not going to
contribute to the housework and they're
going to go out with their friends is it
a threat somehow that spending time with
the boys is a threat to the
relationship I just think it seems to
stem from a very fundamental
misunderstanding of male loneliness and
a set of experiences that I don't think
women can quite understand what it is
like to be a lonely man and the unique
sense of isolation many men feel and how
that links to male suicide I think I
just don't think they can quite
understand the same experience um and
and also people just struggle to
comprehend of the idea of men having
issues inflicted upon them people are
happy to talk about male suffering but
only in the context of it's the man
doing it to himself it's his toxic
masculinity or it's the bloody
patriarchy backfiring people struggle or
are just totally disinterested in the
idea that something is happening to men
that they do not have control over they
do not have agency autonomy over and and
they are the victims in their own right
and male isolation is not a
self-inflicted problem um part of it
surely is but it's a much much wider
issue and one of those issues is people
not wanting to talk about male male guys
nights and thinking it's inherently a
bad thing which it isn't uh and I mean
I've been I went to one house party once
ago ages ago un went to house party and
no women turned up no not a single woman
turned one woman turned up and then left
and it was just the ultimate sausage
fest and I tell you it was the best
house party ever
been it was just like they everyone's
everyone stopped trying to like just
like basically [ __ ] women everyone St
trying to impress women and Al for each
other and it was just the lads we had
like arm wrestle tournaments we had like
um had massive giant banana hanging from
the ceiling everyone was trying to kick
it was just like the most amazing
amazing house I've ever been to and it
was like it was almost like it was
spiritual almost and I'm almost like I
really believe in it and it's I guess it
paints a wide the problem The Wider
problem is a lack of male spaces and and
how
Society uh is impacted and Dam as a
result of that like youth clubs for
example and the closing of Youth clubs
in London and how that impacts knife
crime going up because closing these
male spaces uh like Boy Scouts for
example like the men the boys and men go
elsewhere and often they're taken to
gangs uh and then you obviously got to
look at that within the context of like
fatherlessness and the lack of male role
models in schools and the lack of male
role models in TV overall we just losing
these male spaces and these
conversations for men uh and that's yeah
that's my my perspective of it yeah it's
strange I I wonder how much of it is
that women don't know what guys get up
to when it's just them and their guy
friends I I wonder whether they think
that it's you know that this is finally
the patriarchy getting their opportunity
to plot the downfall it's that I wonder
if he's thinking of me mean all over and
it's always like a dude thinking that if
he doesn't do this next deadlift his
whole family's going to die or him and
his friends like who can do the loudest
fart using a decibel meter that
someone's brought in from work like yeah
I mean I I mean I don't think women
quite understand what it is to be with
the boys it's interesting it's that
classic story you hear where uh you know
husband goes out spends the night with
the lads comes home and the next day his
wife or girlfriend is asking him all
about it and what's so on so up to and
how are the children and he he knows
none of it like he's not asking any
anything about your family or friends or
what you're doing how well we just talk
about random in say who's going to win a
fight between King Kong and Godzilla etc
etc etc and that's like I feel like
that's great like it's a chance to like
unwind and not talk about really intense
things and just like relax I think and
it's an interesting uh it's an
interesting Duality right because on one
side uh there is this push for men to
open up and and talk about their
feelings more for them to uh get in
touch with their feelings to be
emotionally more mature uh to be more
well balanced
members of society but this requirement
of men to be with other men like if you
were to say that uh brunch with the
girls is um like part of a misandrist
conspiracy theory to keep men out from
bottomless prco meetings or something it
would be ridiculous but because for a
long time some maleon spaces were vaed
positions of power hour in which there
were meetings going on where you know
how the high powerered lawyers and the
people that were doing Investments and
so on and so forth but in January of
last year the highest number of female
CEOs ever were recruited and it was like
over a third of CEOs were women I don't
know how many women want to be CEOs my
point being that a lot of male spaces
have been destroyed and a lot of the
upper echelons that were gendered spaces
have also been cut down for precisely
that reason but it's also caused all of
the stuff at the bottom end of the
funnel to get destroyed too like boy
Knight got that puberty uh post got
thousands and thousands of comments from
people mostly women almost exclusively
women who had problems with it yeah I
mean it's I just don't want to get
distracted by that the one single post
it's sort of it's just a much wider
problem and it doesn't go both ways
although we are closing down these male
spaces we're not we're not doing the
same to women's space women's spaces are
held up and protected and funded and set
up in more or less every corner of
society and like quite rightly so like
there's there's like like even like Boy
Scouts does accept girls but Girl Scouts
doesn't accept boys that was one of the
convers first conversations I had with
someone and by conversation I mean
someone shouting in my face and they
were like oh it was a a friend of mine
who was a woman and she was I went to
Boy Scouts I really enjoyed it and I was
like that's great I really think girls
should have the opportunity to learn
these skills I went to Boy Scouts and
it's amazing like learning to tie knots
and like have kayaks and stuff and then
I asked her like what can boys go to
Girl Scouts and then she was like I knew
you going to say that finger in face
shouting I'm like I was just like wow
okay and the answer is no then you
ruined Christmas yeah and um there's
just so many examples well what about
International men's day that didn't have
a good run either last year it's getting
better it's getting better and better so
like every year I mean I do the same
thing every now every year I check out
Google and I really hope for like a
bespoke Google doodle you know every
year have like International women's day
of course gets one there's even
International bobblehead dog day and I'm
not joking there's actual day for
bobblehead dogs and they've got a
[ __ ] Google doodle and I'm like are
you telling me men do not matter as much
as a plastic dog that sits on your dust
touchboard and clearly they don't but um
people talk about International men's
day and they they put it within the
context of it oh that sounds like white
people day or straight straight Pride
day or Able Body day and I'm like I
always find those are such false
equivalences to say being a man is the
same as being white or the same as being
able-bodied I'm like well being let's go
either way I'm not I don't think being a
woman is the same as being black and I
don't think being a woman is the same as
being disabled I find they're so those
Concepts so offensive I mean as a white
person I'm happy to say like being white
in the west is more or less excellent in
every single possible way but being a
man comes if it's a mixed bag of
advantages disadvantages so it's not the
same as being white and everyone says
that to like to wave away International
men's day as
unnecessary and I think it's really
necessary cuz it actually allows us to
talk about some of the issues that are
quietly damaging men and boys from sort
of birth right to sort of um later life
and death and there needs to be a space
for these discussions either a space for
discussion online or actual physical
spaces for men to talk or House pies or
kicking a banana on the ceiling honestly
I was the first person to kick the
Banana by the way and I became like I
was like a king got I got carried God
amongst men I got carried out of the
house honestly amazing this episode is
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