The impact of AI on content creation, social media platforms, sports, and the future of technology

[music] Hello everyone and welcome to Tech Magic. I am your host Kathy Hackle. This is the podcast where we talk about technology news, AI, spatial computing, spatial intelligence, and everything in between. I am joined as always by my co-host Lee Keebler. Lee, how you doing? I >> I'm good. It's been kind of a crazy week for me, but but doing doing all right. We had a I had a big day today, actually. >> Oo. Can you share or No, >> I can. Um, so a while back, I wrote uh a short story. Um, and we decided that we were going to turn it into a miniseries, like a short series, web series. Um, one caveat was no AI would be used in the creation of this web series. And so connected with some amazing artists and talent uh out of Ringling uh College down in Sarasota, Florida, which happens to be my hometown. Um they're an art school. Uh and I knew a couple of the students down there. They read the story, they dug it, and um yeah, so we we put out we're putting out like a 20 episode series uh animated. It's like still animated. It's like a comic book series, but for web. It's like a web comic. Um and so we launched the first episode today. Uh I'm not going to give away any of the story, but the premise is basically the sun goes out. And we decided, this is crazy. This is genuinely crazy. I did not do this on purpose, but I'm sure everyone will think that I did this on purpose. I wanted to just out of timing was like, "Oh, we're going to release this in mid August, whatever." Just looking at the timeline cuz they're students. They had to get back to school. Um, and we chose today, August 12th, which this will launch. This podcast will launch in a couple days, but we chose today, August 12th, to launch it. And it and it takes place in Iceland. Like the story, all of this is true. This the story takes place in Iceland. And it just so happens on August 12th in Iceland right now there's a total eclipse. So it just like the timing was was crazy. It was insane. So um yeah >> synchronicity, my friend. Synchronicity. That's what that's called. >> I I I wish I had done that on purpose. [laughter] >> You were jacking it, weren't you? No, no, no. >> But wow. >> Yeah. So we'll see how that goes. Um, but yeah, it'll be up on my YouTube and and in my uh uh Substack and my Instagram. Um, >> yeah, you're going to share it on Instagram as well. Fantastic. Okay, we'll definitely be sharing that out. >> Um, that's exciting. How many episodes? >> Uh, we think it's about 20, but I know that sounds like a lot, but no episodes more than like 2 minutes long. It's all >> designed to fit in like YouTube shorts >> um and in like Instagram reels. So, yeah, it's they're all about a minute and a half to two minutes long. Oh, that's fantastic. And is it like general audience or like who do you recommend who would like to watch this? >> It's not for kids. Um >> Okay. So, I can't like Okay. I'm glad I asked. >> Teen I would call it PG-13. >> Oh, okay. So, my kids like my older kids could totally >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's It's nothing insane. Um Okay. >> But, you know, it's it's a it's a >> I wouldn't exactly call it a horror, but it is a psychological thriller horror. You'll see as you get into it and things are not as they seem. >> Um, >> well, they watched Obsession with me, so then they're fine. I think they're fine. And my son watched the back rooms, so >> not even close. Not even close. >> I think we're okay. I think we're okay. All right. All right. So, that's awesome. >> I'm great. I am doing great. Um, life has been wonderful. I put out the second episode of my travel and tech series. >> Okay. Uh this time the episode is actually in Athens, Greece. So uh the first video is actually me at the Acropolis where the Parthonon is um talking about, you know, kind of everything that came from Greece that changed society radically and then how the moment that we're in. Uh so the next couple episodes will will continue to be in Greece at different locations. Um and my perspective on technology and kind of what I'm seeing. That's great. >> Really exciting. Yeah. And it's it's I'm getting so many great comments about it and I don't know. I just you know when you do something and this probably what what your what your uh short story feels like and your series feels like when you do something you're just like I'm just going to do it and then now it feels so good that you did it. >> Oh, I don't know if I feel that way. >> I'm not there yet. >> I feel great. I' This is episode two, but it feels like aligned. It feels really aligned to my passions and yeah and I was I was doing it for anyone. I was doing it for me and I think that that comes off and then people huge. Yes, that's when it's for you. But I think like I'm feeling a little bit of George McFly Back to the Future like feeling of like what if people don't like it? I don't know if I can deal with the rejection. Like that whole thing like I've got a little bit of that going on for sure. >> No, it's awesome. And it's called is it >> called Dig, right? Cuz I said my kids would dig it. I did the whole thing there. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's called Dig. Um >> that's exciting. You know, and this is like for people listening here. Um and you probably know this. I'm not sure cuz you've got you've got a good number of followers on Instagram. You can create a series. >> Yes. I'm working on figure. Okay. But see, here's the thing is that like yeah, I my Instagram definitely has a huge following for whatever reason and >> I have no idea how to use Instagram. I don't know how to leverage it. People have asked me like, "So what what's your method for Instagram?" I I throw crap at the wall and see what sticks. Like I have no method. I am a caveman just seeing what I can paint on a wall and there's there's no rhyme or reason. So this is the first time where I've like take a moment and asked myself about the algorithm. Um >> goodness there's so much you can do. We should chat cuz there's trial reels. I mean oh my goodness. I've started got gotten really I've gotten really savvy at it. I mean I'm doubling down on LinkedIn. is that continues to be amazing. >> I'm kind of wondering if I don't move it over to LinkedIn, too, because the the whole end goal is to find like a literary agent. I've got novels I want to publish and things like that. So, I'm taking I'm going flipping the whole idea of like publishing as a grind to like, okay, well, let me just do this over here. >> I don't know if it's going to work, right? >> I would put it I I mean, it's strategically done. I think it's very smart. >> Yeah. Well, okay, then you and I need to chat because I'm I'm [laughter] literally just fingerpainting over here. I have no idea. >> Well, I think it should come to no surp like it's no surprise to anyone listening to this podcast that you and I are podcast co-host, but we're also friends. So, >> yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. We're close friends and could not be more different as people. [laughter] >> Oh lord. Yes. That's why we get along though. That's why we get along. It's fantastic. All right. So, getting to tech news. Um Oh my lord. I just don't think anything's slowing down. I feel like these agents keep breaking into all sorts of things. Uh whether it's a gym, whether it's hacking someone like hacking companies or banks. Um I don't know. I like I don't even know. I don't even know where to start. >> I I want to start with YouTube because I think YouTube is proving where there's a problem. Um, so this week YouTube announced that in 2027 they are changing significantly the requirements of uh traffic needed for a YouTube creator to monetize. It's almost double. It's significant. I'm not going to get into the weeds of the numbers here, but it has caused a stir of these numbers might be unobtainable. >> Um, especially for new >> you people new getting into YouTube. Um, and [sighs and gasps] it's indicative of YouTube trying to solve a problem >> that their parent company is responsible for. And this is where I start seeing maybe we as like outsiders we can see a little bit of like the internal politics of what's happening here. >> Mh. >> Um what happens when your parent company is going all in full throttle on AI and generative AI content. Mhm. >> But you have a platform that is now being so heavily bombarded because of how easy it is to make this content with slop and then expecting that slop to get paid because if you throw enough data fast enough, >> you will hit the necessary required margins. Right? So now YouTube's got a problem that they're getting so much AI garbage that they have to increase the threshold to monetization because they're trying to not monetize AI generated content. It does make sense at like an upper management level problem solving, but it doesn't make sense from the creation point of view because effectively, and I've heard a couple of other YouTubers uh talk about this as well as I'm going through and I'm watching these reactions of like pretty big YouTubers. We're talking people who have got millions of followers >> and they're just saying this is potentially having the negative effect of now I've got to create so much content that I have to use AI to hit these numbers. >> And so a lot of the creative stuff that may not hit the is unlikely to hit that threshold, the new threshold is going to go away and now we're just going to see a bunch of Mr. Beast clones >> or AI generated Mr. Beast clones. >> Oh god, no. >> And so there's this there's this there's this issue happening in YouTube right now where they spent the last 3 years making shorts >> the the the golden child of YouTube, right? Like this is where we want to move everything. >> And then AI came in thanks to Gemini and everything else that's generating content and said, "Oh, this is an easy target because I can output short form video." So now their golden child is just be it's it's like a kid being born into a world full of like natural foods and then you're just shoving sugar down its throat, right? Like it's it's >> what a great analogy, [laughter] >> but it's what we're doing. >> I'll add this to your commentary because I think it's really indicative of the moment we're in. >> Here's a couple things I've seen. Um uh our I don't know if you know Corey Williams. >> I don't. So Corey Unreal, he uses Unreal Engine for development. I mean, I know him from the XR space. Uh, but he started uh creating something called the Silly Crocodile, which was a series on YouTube for kids. >> He was doing he was doing so well. He was doing amazing. I mean, I follow him. I follow him on LinkedIn of all places, but Corey's fabulous, and I actually would love to have him on the pod. Um, he was doing great, really great with Silic Crocodile. I mean, exceeding everything. AI slop just starts hitting. His numbers go way down. his like potential for earning goes way down. Eventually he does like he complains eventually like his silly crocodile gets elevated because it's a real like he uses Unreal Engine to create it but not AI like he's he's a real creator like this is a real children's series with a real messaging a really good like like there it's thought out for for the good of children >> right >> okay and then it gets elevated so he's back to where he used to be I love his story that's in juosition to the story of this other woman that I actually saw on Instagram where she's Let me show you how I've made $20,000 a month creating AI videos with for kids, but there's no no reasoning behind the videos. It's just feeding them slop. It's like using create create a story about this and this, but it's bad. It's the stuff that these little kids get hooked on and they watch on YouTube Kids or on YouTube, but has no real meaning or story. And I was like, you know, she's she's doing it to gain her, you know, a living or whatever, but I'm like, at what cost? So, it's this interesting juiposition of a real life human creator who uses technology to create amazing work, who's been doing great, who's trying to do something better for kids, as opposed to someone that's like, let me just hijack the system, make as much money as I can, feeding kids sugar. >> Right. Right. >> Exactly. So, I I see this juxtaposition on how people are approaching this. So very interesting. Um, so I don't have any comment on that cuz I've got two other things I want to bring up related exactly to this. >> Go for it. >> No. Okay. >> Oh, go for it. Yeah. >> So, here are two other things I see. One of them is that this is a really interesting opportunity for several platforms. >> Yes. >> Okay. One of them is Roblox. >> Okay. Roblox. You and I have talked about this many times, but actually there's data that shows that Roblox is minting quote unquote more millionaire de more millionaire teen teenage millionaires quote unquote than YouTube because they're building games now Roblox Studio. There's more access to tools. Yes, they're using AI to create some games, but like they're they're actually making games and getting money there as opposed to how hard it's becoming to get become that in YouTube. >> So that's one. The other the second comment is the opportunity for LinkedIn. You know, I'm a LinkedIn power user. LinkedIn is my platform of choice. I absolutely loved it. I would not be where I am today if it were not for LinkedIn. Um, you know, >> I don't think you and I would know each other if it weren't for LinkedIn. If I if I'm going far enough back, I >> I don't think so. >> Oh, thank heavens for LinkedIn then. >> Yeah. I think I think like in the early days of LinkedIn, we were like very quickly connected. >> Yeah. And I also see an awesome opportunity if it becomes harder for people to quote unquote monetize YouTube. It's, you know, Instagram, you can still monetize. The game gets a little bit harder as you go. But, >> you know, where would you monetize? I mean, I'm not interested in monetizing on Tik Tok. That's just not my audience necessarily. I feel like LinkedIn has a good quality audience. Granted, there is still there is also a lot of AI traffic, but there there actually there's a button now where you can press and say this looks like AI slop or this is like AI this looks like it's AI generated, >> right? >> And LinkedIn is in the process of uh finding ways for creators, real life human creators that have, you know, business expertise to monetize a little bit more. Um, so I'm excited. I'm excited about what it also means for LinkedIn. I just don't want LinkedIn to become YouTube. You know, that makes sense. >> It's interesting because in in in another part of my life, I've been fighting this battle um trying to get people to like pay attention the music industry, which is a big chunk of my background is really interesting because it's so ingrained in like credit and and getting your percentages and who owns what in publishing. And so when music came and got its own platform like Spotify, there was at least an expectation that if it gets played, it gets paid. And yes, it is down to fractions of pennies of nothings. And I get that that's a whole other argument in discussion. But that is still more than what the average person uploading content to say YouTube or Instagram is getting paid, right? Because there was this expectation, this legal precedence that was already put in place thanks to television, radio and broadcast. So now we are trying to throw as much content as we can at this machine that is ultimately going to make money off of it because even if you just scroll past it cuz it's content to keep someone in >> but you have to hit a threshold for you to in order for you to make money. See like Spotify doesn't have that. Like we just know it's fractions of pennies and if it does better it makes more money. >> Now we've got these weird zero to pennies threshold in all these other platforms. Spotify because of this has had to take this way more seriously and they have started implementing AI detection, AI reporting because this is really going to game their system if they can't get under get it under control. So for me, of all the platforms to watch on how do they solve this AI slot problem, Spotify, maybe Apple Music is the one to keep an eye on because they have the most at risk immediately. >> Um because they can't just say, "Well, we're not going to monetize any of these songs until it hits 5 billion plays." Like I they would love to do that, but they just can't, right? Um, but YouTube can. [laughter] So, >> that's an interesting point because I literally just saw the news that Spotify is going to not start to recommend AI artists or songs cuz it was bothering a lot of people. Like I I have Spotify and Apple Music. And it happens a lot more on Spotify. I mean, 100% honest in my experience. And when we would get like an AI recommendation, my kids would literally skip. Especially my son who's a musician. He's like, "Ew, gross." Like he gets physically like, "I don't want to listen to an AI artist. let's like move on. >> Well, in part of what they're doing is the the AI persona, right? So, they're letting you >> they're not necessarily stopping AI music. >> Yeah. >> And I kind of understand that. >> Yeah. >> From a business perspective, >> but they are asking you if this is AI generated. If you're trying to make an AI generated artist, you have to define that as an AI generated persona that goes into its own like artist space because ultimately and this I can see this coming further down the road from a legal legality position. Spotify is trying to separate what is a real artist that has intellectual property in this other uh kind of wishy-washy area that we don't know if it's intellectual property. if it doesn't if it is even legal to pay it out because it's based on learning from actual intellectual property. And so there's such a gray area. They really >> for the future prosperity of the company need to separate that and say, "Well, y'all got to figure this out and we're just going to call it an AI persona." And if people skip it because they don't want to listen to AI, that's on you. Welcome to the free market. Right? And I'm all for that. And if you hear something that you suspect is an AI persona, not labeled as such, as a listener, you can actually report it. Um, now, how well that will work, I don't know. But the fact that they're doing it at all, >> it's better than what I see on Facebook and and you know, better than what I see on Instagram. Um, so that's that's the thing sometimes. I mean, I I enjoy Instagram. Like, I've been able to kind of curate it in such a way that most of the stuff I it feeds me is relatively good for my soul. >> Not everything. Um, but sometimes I'll find if I like if I get one of those ads for like a supplement or something, we talked about this last time. >> I will literally stop for a second. I'm like, >> is this a real person like trying to sell me this or is this fake? Like, I'm like, it's so sad that you got to think about that now, right? Is this real or fake? Um, >> I don't Well, and I think courts are starting to decide a lot of that of what this damage actually costs. I mean, it looks like Fed uh Facebook or Meta's um >> uh lawsuits actually going forward. They can't stop it from going forward that didn't not get appealed. So, we'll see how this plays out. I think there's a lot of questions that are starting to come up uh when it comes to things like the Meta Ray-B bands and like the glasses that are recording and things like that. That's starting to spiral out of control. We have a as people I feel like we're coming up against a lot of privacy concerns, but at least it's actually getting harder for the tech companies as well. Um, and that's put that puts you and I in this very awkward position of trying to keep uh tech podcasts going of like how cool is this technology when nine out of 10, you know, news articles are like this is not so cool. >> Yeah, >> it's getting rough. >> It's getting rough. I agree with you. It's like hard. It's like how do you comment? How do you comment on something? Um well, especially, you know, like if we eventually want to, you know, we're starting to get some interest from like um advertisers. Yeah. >> Right now, we don't have to get advertisers. We'd like to, you know, that's I think a different story, but it's more like how do you, you know, walk that fine line between, >> you know, saying, "Hey, we'll accept this company as an advertiser, but we're have we retain the >> the editorial, you know, independence of being able to be critical of something." So, I think that's it's a very fine line. Um, I think also even with you and I being so different, I think we are excited most of the time about new tech. >> Yeah. >> Right. Um, I mean, I was excited about the Ray-B bands when they came out. I was like, "Oh, this is so cool." >> Now, I've taken a step back. So, I have them. I own them. Am I using them right now? No. Cuz it feels icky. >> It feels really icky out there to use them. Um, and I'm even seeing it in the context of the dating space. >> Please, >> uh, at an event that I went to the other day. One of the guys was wearing them, and I could tell that I don't think he was wearing them cuz he's he apparently uses glasses and they're prescription and and he's got those. Um, but I remember just like a couple women were like, "Oh, gross. He's wearing those meta glasses." Like, I had read stories and I hadn't experienced it in real life until I saw this and I was like, "Oh, lord." Wow. Like there's a real ick. >> Yeah. I you know I looked at the glasses and I almost bought a pair and I'll tell you the reason I almost bought a pair was really simple. Not to wear out of every day. I spend a lot of time on stage as a music performer with a band. And it's a really convenient way for me to get B-roll for our, you know, social media and for whatever we're going to piece together. But when I really started looking into what I would have what that re reaction would be, I was like, man, I I actually don't know if it if the juice is worth the squeeze, as they say, you know, and uh so I backed off. Um it it does say something for society. I'm really happy that people are at a position where they're finally starting to ask the question of why was this made? >> Why is this being put in front of me? That is a wonderful place to be in because as millennials, we typically think that we've done everything right and the rest of the world is wrong. But we royally screwed up from about the year 2005 to about 2015 where we were just like social media is the greatest thing ever. >> Greatest thing ever. [laughter] >> We didn't uh to to Gen Z Jin Alpha, our bad. Uh we didn't know. Uh >> yeah, [laughter] >> my kids don't enjoy it. Like I'll be honest, my kids do not enjoy like the social aspect like social media. they don't really enjoy it. Like my daughter was um I had I had let her choose a social media platform. I said you can choose one because granted she is in high school and she is a teenager and it took me forever to give her a phone but then I was like she was asking for social and I said okay choose one platform. >> She initially wanted Snap. We did Snap and then she was like I don't like how I feel and I'm like okay. I mean I kind of like Snap personally but whatever. Um she was like no. So then she did Instagram and then she didn't like Instagram either. So, her go-to is Pinterest. [laughter] >> That's the one she loves. >> That totally makes sense because Pinterest had an end goal that >> still focused on the user. >> Where a lot of this had gone wrong is when the when they stopped focusing on the user and started focusing on >> the advertiser, >> the advertiser, you know, or the algorithm, right? >> Or the algorithm really more so than the advertiser. Yeah. >> And so, a lot of the advertisers aren't even like the first and foremost. I sometimes I'm watching this stuff kind of come together and I'm like who's who's thinking of this? Good example. >> I've been and you can see it in the background if you're watching this on video. I've been a proponent of Metav VR since you know since it was Oculus and it got purchased like I' I've wanted to see this work. Metav VR is in a with the Quest series is in a real dire straight situation. They've let go a lot of developers but they've kept moving forward. The new user interface is an absolute atrocious mess. And their big announcement this week was we got Threads working in the Quest VR headset. Nobody asked for that. >> I'm like, whoa. Uh yeah, I didn't even see that. [laughter] So Threads is working on the VR headset. Okay. >> As a native app >> because we're all needed that. Yeah, >> that's that's not that but that's not actually what that headset is ever going to be good for to do, right? Like it's great once you get it working on mobile, but [sighs and gasps] there's just some headscratching moments in in a lot of watching the news roll out just going >> who asked for this like why is this uh yeah I mean I will tell you this going back to my Amazon days because I worked at AWS for a short period of time >> um that is very customer focused like that's one of the one of the main mandate like not main it's one of the main ways that people operate within AWS is like customer obsessed that's the word and it's like you're trying to solve an issue for the customer. >> So um and customer is very broad. Customer could be you know the partners or whatever. So or whoever but yeah it's like what is this solving? What is this solving? Um technology I think when technology technology can be great but if it doesn't have >> a problem to solve right there's no product market fit. It doesn't have a problem to solve. It's not making someone's life easier. Then how is it useful? Right? How is it useful other than being a nice shiny thing? >> Um, Amazon is consistently one of the companies that while everyone wants to shake their fist at them and say, "Oh, they're Amazon's big and it's evil." And I'm not saying that they don't have some work practices that could use some improvement. Don't put me in that company, right? >> But I understand why they're as powerful as they are. I can look at them and say, "Yes, all of the money makes sense. All of it." Um, I might not like how they generated some of it. I might love how they generated some of it, >> but I understand it. It's kind of like looking at like a chip manufacturing company or any big boring company that's like you have to make a product and you make the money and then it goes out to the people and it's it's like basic economics. A lot of social media companies right now, a lot of digital entertainment companies, a lot of of just internet web service companies don't fit in that for me. I can look at it and go >> this the the math ain't math. Um, and >> I don't know what it means for for a lot of these these product driven but not customerdriven >> Yeah. >> you know, projects that I see coming out. I don't get it. I don't get it. Maybe that's just me getting too far. >> I don't know. I'm with you. I'm like, what problem is this solving? What customer needed this? Who needs this? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think it's like who really needs this? Is there a real market here? Um so I don't know. I think as someone that has worked in, you know, in launching products and services um across my career, like I always wonder that like how does this how does this fit? Even in my time at Magic Leap, which was I was on the enterprise side, I could definitely see a big need in enterprise. Did I see a marketing consumer? Not really. that wasn't really what why they hired me. I was more on the enterprise side, right? >> Um so there's got to be a need. Here's where I do think there's a need >> with AI and consumers is privacy. >> It's like, >> oh, totally >> right. Like it bothers me to think that all these people are using whichever platform they're using and they're inputting all this personal data in these platforms not realizing that, you know, this is not private information. This is not private. Does not remain private. It is your private information. But once you input it there, this is not private information. This is not remaining private. The company's using this in some way. Um, and I don't know, I want to feel I want people to feel better using AI because it can be very useful. I think it can be very useful. Sure. >> But the amount of data that people are sharing with these platforms that are corporations concerns me. So, I think you should be able to own your data and still be able to use AI. What are your thoughts? >> Until we have any form of legislation that understands what you're saying, it won't happen. Right? Uh the only entity, there's only a couple of ways that you can absolutely guarantee what you're asking for and that is one and I cannot believe I am saying this but Apple in their Apple intelligence staying on machine is the best design. As simple as it is, it is the best design for generative AI functionality. And no, it is not as powerful or as amazing as what you're going to get out of OpenAI or Anthropic or whatever, but it is on your machine >> um or running a local LLM, which can be surprisingly powerful if you can get a powerful machine enough to do that. And right now, component shortages are keeping the masses from being able to do that. And if I put on my tin foil hat, I start wondering if that's not by design. >> Um, >> okay. I don't know. Let's not be like this. Don't let's not go down that rabbit hole of conspiracy le this is not that type of podcast. Okay. [laughter] And it's neither not not a true crime either. So, we're um I will say I think there are startups out there that are trying to do something good for humanity. >> I don't know. I'm >> I remain hopeful. I agree. >> I remain hopeful. >> I I do too. I mean, one of the things that I absolutely miss is the the days of like startups trying to solve a problem. You know, I think I said this on the last episode, right, of of like startups should try to solve a problem, not try to hitch their wagon to a buzzword that will get them the most investment as fast as possible. And again, that is a product of the 2015 technology boom of like we're just going to build startups that hitch their wagon to >> Bitcoin or NFTTS or VR. We we I mean it was it was all of it and we're still doing it. Um but how many of those companies actually broke out outside of Oculus, right? Oculus was one of the few that got acquired for the big bucks. Um Instagram being another one uh you know of the 2013 2014 era >> um and WhatsApp. But a lot of people forget that like Snap was originally what Meta tried to buy and they said no and so they bought Instagram instead. Instagram was the backup date. >> That's so funny, right? That was the backup plan. [laughter] >> That was Look at what the backup plan. >> That was the backup prom date. You know what I mean? I'm like, >> prom date. [laughter] >> They got the pink p even though they wanted the yellow one. [laughter] Oh, no, no, no. Oh, that's funny. That is so true. >> I think we forget a lot of those things. I'm I am curious to see how it plays out. I want to see more kind of come in to play. I I I still think wearables are something that's interesting. I still think that there's a lot that this technology can do. We just need it to do first and foremost. And I think a lot of the stuff would get adopted faster >> if they just put out stuff that people want it to do. They might slide the darker stuff in on the once you like that's how social media was, right? >> Do it more more covert. Is what do you think? >> No. No. Really? Okay. This is going to get problematic, but let's go there. The reason any of these companies that we're talking about today and they're all in these negative lights, they started by doing something that people actually wanted. >> Mhm. >> And then they abandon that and now they're wondering why nobody likes them. This for real. Let's just just say it is what it is. So if you're a new tech company, you kind of have to look at that and go, well, you can't just go straight to the dark side, right? like you you can't but they all are trying to go just straight to the dark side because that's where they see the money. >> Yeah, but that's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. Well, here's and I'm not making any judgment here, but there's uproar in the journalism world because USA Today has decided to par to partner with Palanteer. Yeah. >> Did you hear this? >> I did. to kind of create a better idea of their readers and how to monetize their readers. And there's like giant uproar in the journalism world. And by the way, we are not journalists. I used to be a journalist many moons ago, many many years ago. I'm not a journalist currently. This podcast is not done by journalists. We are tech executives here. Um but yeah, there's like big uproar in the media world because of this like USA Today Palanteer partnership. Thoughts? um h >> it was a good run. I don't know what to tell them like because it it's going to be indicative of the quality that comes out that people actually want to understand and if people if you start losing that trust >> it becomes problematic, right? Um, you don't, regardless of your political affiliations while you're listening to this podcast, whether you watch CNN, MSNBC, or Fox News, when you turn on that channel, it's a real human being. >> Mhm. >> There isn't a single news channel, cable news network or late night or even streaming to your phone that is putting up AI generated news hosts. Not yet. And >> I honest I said not yet, but I honestly believe that that is because when you are watching someone speak to you and you know that that person is not real, their opinions are no longer >> attached to anyone, right? And whether the person giving those opinions on screen believes them or not, whether they are real or not, the fact that you emotionally attach that to a real person talking is what holds the value of I'm going to watch this person. I'm going to watch this show. Cuz otherwise, you're just watching a generated feed. And I don't believe humans actually consume media that way. They're trying. They would like that to be the case, but I I don't I don't see it. The personality um carries weight. Uh >> yeah, it still does. I I agree with you. Um we're still humans living in the human world and personality carries through. Um Wire did have a story about AI reporters breaking news. I didn't dig into it, so I don't Maybe we'll talk about it next time. >> Sure. >> Um but alluding to what you're talking about, and I always go back to this, right? as someone who loves motor motorsports and got invited to the Freedom 250 Grand Prix in DC, which I'm excited about. I know not everyone's excited about it, especially people that live in DC cuz the streets it's a it's mayhem. It's mayhem. If we ever get a Formula 1, it's going to be insane. Like I don't I don't even know how we're going to handle that. Um but I've always been of the premise of like I love in Formula 1 when they use technology, right? They're using AI um for but I still want to watch Lewis Hamilton or Versappen or whoever it is or Lando Norris where it is racing the car. I still want to watch a human taking the risk doing the strategy. I love the dynamics of the team members, the dynamics of the competition. I just don't feel it would be the same if it's an autonomous car or if it's a robot because there's not there's skin in the game, but there's not that much skin in the game. So once again, I always go back to like I still as a human want the excitement of watching another human accomplish amazing things, >> right? >> And you know, so yeah, like I I think about that >> in 2020, 2019, 2020, I was working at Intel and I worked on one of their projects that was kind of the first their one of their earliest AI uh broadcast solutions. And this was for the Olympics in Japan. Um, and what our system did was it would watch the it would watch the track and field runs and it could from way back in the stands, way back in the stands, it could utilizing AI, pick up on the runners, pick up on their stride and basically do a heat map of how they were running and really close to real time, it could broadcast this information. It could also send this information to to the commentators. And so we were not trying to replace the runners or even the commentators. We were simply leveraging AI to show us what humans could not see. >> Mhm. >> I'm all for that. And one of the things that I have yet to find, and I have this conversation a lot, I'm sure that you do too, is like you will talk, you will bump into people that will tell you how much they hate AI. And I get it. I totally understand. But as soon as I talk to somebody who says, "I absolutely hate AI," I ask the question, would you hate AI if it could generate the solution for curing ALS or cancer or fill in the blank of whatever it is that someone in your family is currently or had gone through, >> cancer, whatever. Yeah. >> Nobody would hate that. >> What you hate is that the company generating this technology isn't doing that. >> Mhm. >> Right. You don't hate the technology. You can hate that it's being predicated off of the creative intellectual property of artists that you respect and love and deserve credit. And you can hate that it's being utilized to generate content and garbage that is misleading and lying to people. But you don't actually hate the hammer, right? >> Cuz the hammer can be used for such good things in the world. >> So someone get on that, will you? Please. [laughter] >> Well, the promises have been made, right? I hope. And I do think there's startups working on this and I do >> and everything. I just need to make sure that these startups, you know, I don't know. >> I I I will say something to this topic is like and you know I love I love live sports. I love live music all these sorts of things, right? And the World Cup for me is an example of like there was so much technology being used uh you know on the field on in the field and the pitch and everything. Um but what people what people will remember from the World Cup will be the stories the human stories of like the goalkeeper from Cape Bird from Messi you know Messi's last game all these sorts of things is what people will remember from the World Cup and yeah if their team won and how many goals they scored and everything but um but the human stories remain what we kind of hold on to as humans and at the end of the day the ones that are watching the games are humans. >> That's true. if there were robots and agents, and some of them are, uh, but at the end of the day, we're still the ones watching this. So, >> so I agree with you. Don't hate the hammer if the hammer can be used for good. >> People still want to watch Twitch streams of >> of gamers beating a video game, but nobody wants to watch a a Twitch stream of a computer beating a video game. >> Yeah. >> No one cares. >> Mhm. >> It's If that were a thing, it would it would already be up, right? like and and I'm sure there's roundabout use cases of like look this computer beat you know Super Mario level in the world's fastest time because it played it perfectly. That was a news story in 2013 that I remember because that was the one time and I watched that video because I thought it was really interesting that a computer had figured out the most optimal route of beating Super Mario Brothers. Would I care to watch that 50,000 more times? Nope. Once was enough. You did it. Good for you. Moving on. But I'll watch someone else try to beat it. >> That's where we're at. >> That's where we're at. That's where we're at. [snorts] >> All right. So, um, yeah, I think anything else you want to talk about before we kind of switch off. >> You know, I Is there anything I'm going to ask you this? I'm going to put you on the spot because we we didn't we haven't covered this. Is there anything currently happening that you see in the tech space that you find incredibly positive? incredibly positive in the text space. >> H I actually Nothing comes to mind right off the bat. There probably are great stories. I just I No. Yes, but I have They're out there. I just don't know why. What did you see? I no this is part of the bleakness that I'm trying to work myself through >> if I'm if I'm being completely vulnerable on this podcast to all of our listeners of >> hey >> you follow us you know where to find us LinkedIn Instagram whatever you got that positive story send it to us we could the world could use some positivity and you know how to find us you can find us on our Instagram our LinkedIn or our substacks. You just have to look for Kathy Hackle or Lee Keebler or Tech Magic. That's where we're at and you can find us and message us there. And with that, I'm going to say thank you for tuning in to Tech Magic, where we always invite you to come for the tech. Stay for the magic. I'm Lee Keebler with the incredible Kathy Hackle. We will be back [music] next week.