The Hidden Secrets Threatening National Security - Mike Baker (4K)

are you with AT&T no I am not yeah that was that was one of those moments right what happened ah I think everybody thought it was the end of the world right because they couldn't get on Tik Tok or send a text message and it was it was disastrous I had a couple of meetings that morning and and and people were losing their because you know and and it was funny because everyone was just sort of bailing out of things I some people probably saw it as an opportunity to bail out of meetings right I you know I was you yeah it's like we've got that meeting with Mike been waiting for an excuse it does happen a lot yeah that's a good point no uh who knows right the Frailty of of our com systems or telecoms and and and our power grid and our water systems and everything else if most people knew how easy that could actually happen uh you know not even talking about a targeted attack just just a going down because systems are old um you know they probably wouldn't sleep at night how so what do you mean when you say systems are old well you look at uh look at the power grid and that thing was patched together right like a quilt over the years right and we've got three grids in the country east and west and in Texas in the US and uh Texas has its own grid and um yeah so uh but it was put together over over a long period of time right and never with the intention that it was going to have to stand up to some attack right or really even with the idea that it's going to have to withstand some natural disaster as strange as that seems you would think you would want to make them pretty resilient to that um so that's why you can drive by a substation you know and and Reach Out And Touch it that's why you look at the water treatment facilities and think well that doesn't look particularly well protected I mean most of the infrastructure was never designed to withstand a physical attack and certainly not a uh a Cyber attack because that wouldn't have existed when it was first being designed no exactly exactly and then a lot of the equipment used for uh going back to the power grid a lot of the major gear that's that runs the power gri we don't even manufacture in the states anymore right so the idea that something would shut down and we'd have a catastrophic you know collapse and and and it would kind of have a cascading effect like we had several years back that kind of Hit the Northeast uh you know that's that's a devastating issue because we don't it's not like we've got some you know large uh Hardware or power plants we're able to just roll in and replace gear with right we don't we don't manufacture that stuff you got SP power plant for every Power Plant so the idea I mean you know people always ask me they say what should I do to be prepared well I mean if you can afford it and it's easy to say well you should have this because you know they're they're not cheap but you should have a a generator of a decent size that will provide you with some level of power right if you don't have power you know the first thing most people will notice is their phones die right and then you know what are you going to do you going to sit in the dark and not have Tik Tok right so right yeah would obviously bring Society to a stun still yeah it's uh it's so weird to think when you think about a attacks and and problems with telecommunications with infrastructure with energy with water you think about actual attacks but then you don't realize that just the inbuilt fragility of the system is a threat in itself absolutely oh wow we could take this down just by uh no malicious intent no one's done anything other than and we don't know is so we don't know what's happened with AT&T yeah you know what I I I was so disinterested to tell you the truth I was happy not to have communications with with folks for a while so I was not the sort to think I got to get to the bottom of this I was just like okay I got I got a little while to to relax a little celebration yeah yeah so I was I you know I'm the wrong guy to ask about the AT&T uh Kur fuffle um but I did find it Charming i' I've said before um you know we don't we don't really understand the the damage that these things are doing in a way right they're great I mean don't okay I'm not a you know Lite but um you know it's going to be years before we understand what access to this for our kids means right and you know if anybody's got kids they understand what that what I'm talking about right it's it's it's the impact that these this instant information and access to material and information that they should never have at an early age right all these things again is there an upside of course there a like an upside right but you know we're not going to understand the impact this is going to have it's just like with you know AI coming in now right we're not going to really know what this means right but I can tell you what it's starting to mean look I had a hard time with with my company which is an intelligence and security firm um po Forman Square group thank you very much yeah Lincoln bio hey first marketing plug um and um you know we've always had a hard time finding young folks who could write well right I mean you can find people who are curious and we we we gather intelligence we gather information around the world right so as part of what we do but you got to package that up you got to present it to the clients right people are paying us for this and you've got to be able to tell that in in a smart way take a lot of information distill it down to its key points and provide that to somebody right and so finding young folks who can write well who can do that has been a problem and if we think it's a problem now you know wait five or 10 years with AI when every kid is just using chat gbt or the next version to create everything that they they need for school I think we got a real problem coming down the pike did you see Google's Gemini disaster yeah yeah yeah show me a viking it tried to be so anti-racist that it was racist and it managed to annoy leftists by portraying Nazis as black people and then it managed to annoy rtists by portraying the Founding Father Fathers as black people yeah yeah I think the Nazis it was a very diverse group of Nazis right I think there was an Asian Nazi there was a Hispanic Nazi there was a black Nazi yeah there was everybody except someone from the Aryan race and um yeah cuz CU we all know that that the Nazis they they love ethnically they love Dei they were they were all about the I think gobl was the uh Dei Minister for during the war yes by the way this is very good you enjoying that yeah it's really good that'll fire you up so yeah AI Gemini I mean so I was talking to a friend yesterday who's Big in the world of fashion remember Balenciaga got in trouble a while ago they kind of showed some very BDSM stuff that maybe featured kids toys and it really crossed the line it was very very God I missed that one yeah it was like uh you know if you want to feed into the pedophiles who run the world drinking goat blood sacrificing like women at the full moon and stuff like it it really played into that but you really don't don't knock people's Hobbies yeah so they are everyone everyone needs something to keep them going um they're 70% down from when they started 70% down from when that that first happened my point being that the antibody defense system that the public has against feeling like they're being with right many companies many organizations many individuals are trying to contrive and cynically portray some sort of image even us interpersonally day-to-day you know you don't tell your friend about the athletes fot your daily you know like it's all part it's all smoking M but the 70% down Google is way more important than overpriced shoes but I don't think that we should underestimate how catastrophic and uh apocalyptic for a company it can be for for the Veil to sort of be revealed and it's like here we know that they were doing something what's happening with the search engine how can we trust Google overall right yeah no I think it's most most companies now do things out of fear right I mean the fear that they're not going to be um whatever the term is now they woke or Progressive enough right and so you know whether it's their marketing department or the Communications Department I think most most companies always kind of when they look at okay we have a new product or we have a new ad campaign we got to put out there they've got to tick some boxes and okay fine you know marketing has always been that advertising has always been that right appeal to whoever you believe your consumer to be right but I think that there is a there's a level of fear now that exists that probably wasn't there before that says we we we don't want to get sideways with the very loud um you know vocal minority right that's out there because you know last time I checked you know the lgbtq community God bless them right but they're not they're not the majority of the population right and but our consumer producting seems to be like believing that they are but it's not it's just fear of upsetting a very loud minority of people who you know have figured out how to manipulate right the narrative and that and again hey good for them you know because everybody's trying to I suppose do the same thing and you know win the day but um yeah we live in we live in interesting times right and um if you raise if you've got kids in school right you you see it almost on a daily basis because kids are pretty pretty good until they get to a certain age right young kids are pretty good about just kind of telling you the truth right they'll just come home and they'll say something they don't tend to edit things that much at a young age right and so they'll come back and you'll say how was your day and he's go well you know I I had a girl hiss at me he said what do you mean hiss at you well she she thinks she's a cat and so she dresses like a cat and she only communicates by meowing and hissing and so she hissed at me and I said well why'd she hiss you he said well I pulled her tail well I think that's funny right but but you could you could legitimately get in trouble in school now for for you know harassing a a a cat cat person a cat person and so you you hear these things and and there's other versions of that story that come out on a daily basis and you think okay you know I get it we're kind of accommodating everything nowadays right and and you know I everybody's got their own opinion you know my opinion is that you probably don't want to do that right if some kid tells you that they want to be a dinosaur when they grow up you know they'll probably get over that necessarily need to indulge all of I mean if you look at a three-year-old he's a fan when he wakes up and then he's a postman after lunch and he's an astronaut before dinner yeah oh God I wanted to be an astronaut when I was young yeah I still I kept this little essay that I wrote when I was in I don't even remember when I was how old I was but that was what I wanted to be and and uh I was never going to be smart enough to be an astronaut and my dad was nice enough not to tell me that but you know it was I remember your fantasy yeah you you were the astronaut C person yeah I mean he did he did tell me you know at one point you know you might want to set your sight somewhere else other than space but um yeah I guess anyway the point being is I think the the overindulgence right um at a at for kids at a young age is not I don't think actually solid parenting it seems different than just indulging a Young Person's desire for Fantasy or or a different life this appears to be a complete rewriting of History it appears to be yeah particularly we're talking about Gemini absolutely yeah yeah 50% hiding reality and 50% erasing history and think about how Focus that was right think about the the thought process that went into that right and it wasn't just one it's not like one dude said I'm going to I'm going to you know create this code that's going to allow this to happen this was this was a this was a legitimate discussion nothing happens in a company that size that doesn't go through several layers of decision making right and has to get signed off on it's if we imagine it was just one very Progressive person who thought I'm going to with the system a little bit so here we go this thing was test driven to a fairy well and and so the idea that they would now they come out and go well yeah kind unforeseen externalities wow who could have seen that coming right everybody in product development right um yeah I it's it is amazing to think about and then you think about the power that that has right I mean Google you can't swing a dead cat without you know without hitting Google at some point right and so everybody is in a way is impacted right and yeah again I go back to that original comment which is I I don't we don't understand we don't have enough data points yet to understand what all this means for the development of of of uh the human race maybe if you want to take it that far down the road definitely what you want to be doing though if you're in this position you're at the very beginning of the Inception of a new type of Technology of AI of large language models of all of that stuff you do not want to activate that antibody system within the populace you should be moving so slowly it should be you shouldn't be allowing it to generate images it should be just you know first off text I don't I think Gemini kind of jumped in straight in at the deep end and did some super advanced stuff uh but yeah I think the implications for the rest of Google's unbiasedness or lack of is I think this has really brought to the front a lot of uh latent skepticism that people had about that company overall I I think so but I think what they're probably counting on is um what most companies count on uh which is sort of the short attention span right we off Sor I turn turn that off that was that's Google calling me hey would you shut um yeah I think uh they're counting on a short attention span right uh I mean look at everybody imagined well the okay the far right imagine Bud Lights going down right after that little goat R within a year yeah and nobody gives a at the end of the day right I mean there was there was a dip right and and they they hit their stock price a little bit but and companies's not going out you know it's just not going to happen and and people forget these things right and and our attention span particularly in the you know the and I would argue you know in the west to some degree but really in the US I see it I spend a lot of time overseas but here in in in uh in America we've got such a short attention span and there's this inability right to and I'm not saying you you shouldn't look at Google and say okay now we got to punish them hard we got to drive them out of business that's you know boycott boycot whatever you don't like a product don't use the product right but I I don't think this is going to impact them in the long run and I don't think they ultimately believe it will or care right they care in the short very short term but I think they understand the Dynamics uh and we're all like you know a bunch of raccoons chasing the next tinf foil ball it's very easy to outwit somebody else by just looking at a longer time Horizon than they do yeah yeah you know if you just realize right now the Bud Light example is so perfect this is the end of it Kid Rock's shooting it with a gun it's going to be Kid Rock was on the was drinking it with Joe Shane Gillis is now an ambassador for them you've got like the Bud Light New World Order booth at the Super Bowl right it's all the people are in there post Malon in there and all they came out with a camo can remember that support our veterans all that right and you go so this is one of the I have such I get so annoyed with people that are super vehement about a thing and then forget about it because you captured my attention with your over-the-top vehement denial or assertion about some thing MH and it's still in my memory but it's not in yours there was this image of a single squaty soldier walking down the Streets of London and it got forwarded on WhatsApp this was during Co and it was um this is an image uh sent to me by my brother who's part of the Armed Forces and whatever whatever um the Army are going to come and force you at gunpoint to stay in your house and this is I don't know if you you've ever seen this on WhatsApp there's a thing that says forwarded many times and it's like a warning that this is being pushed around a lot on WhatsApp this thing went beyond hyperv viral and people were adamant this is the beginning you remember when there was like tanks rolling through Florida Miami maybe Miami Beach and it was like this is the beginning it's going to be martial law and everyone's going to be locked down and people were adamant Global Health passports remember that remember that was going to come in and it's just a case of either oh well um the amount of attention that we gave it online stopped them from being able to do it I'm like all right well that's unfalsifiable isn't it or they're just biing their time until we're less Vigilant go dude you don't get to make insanely certain assertions about the world and then ju like allow them and then you move you exctly dude it whs me up so much no I if you've spent any time um working for the government or a government government you know typically what you'll find uh unless you're in a totalitarian regime unless you're working for xingping and China maybe um you know the government you know the US government in particular is not capable of organizing panic and a doom submarine right they just can't so this idea that somehow they're going to you know create this new world order or they're going to do these things I mean you always want to be vigilant but yeah the co the pandemic brought out a lot of that I think in part because it kind of fed into you know it was it was a it was a great trough you know for people who wanted to talk about conspiracies and things and so okay great but um you know we all knew another pandemic was going to happen right we know another one's going to happen at some point right we'll probably have the same reaction we won't learn anything but yeah I've never been a big fan of the or a big believer in the idea that somehow the government's going to get this massive conspiracy over on us because I spent too much time working for the government right so it's your your uh belief is that because they're so useless this level of coordination would essentially be impossible yeah yeah the idea that they could keep secrets to that degree right I mean you you know certain parts of the government you know Intel Community is pretty good at keeping sources and methods right because it's life or death you know for assets working overseas but I mean on the big level you know we've created some you know some you know secret lay somewhere where we're developing some new okay fine maybe so but I know my experience anyway has been that it's tough for the government to keep a secret if it involves m multiple agencies or you know a variety of of of positions I I just don't I again you have to go with what your personal experiences that's mine I'm sure someone else is you know sitting in somebody's basement with no experience has a different idea so did you see that uh Gemini also refused to create an image of what happened at tianan Square yes yeah I did and I also saw that what was it somebody asked them I there's there's there so many examples out there corre um I think one example and I haven't tracked it back to its original Source yet but somebody asked if if it was uh um all right to misgender I think it was uh Bruce Jenner or sorry Caitlyn Jenner um in order to stop a a nuclear apocalypse or Armageddon and the kind of the answer was sort of shaded well it's not not right you know because it could be considered discriminatory now there may be other ways to stop the Armageddon okay you know and I'm think okay that's some good elal thinking yeah so there was the there was it was layered I guess but no there's I don't I don't know I uh what I worry about I I take it I tend to think about things in very simple terms I my greatest joy in life comes from my my family right so I think about a lot of things in terms of the impact it will have on my kids uh what we're leaving behind for the kids you know what it means for their develop and so I tend I look at something like you know Ai and and and again it's a fairly simplistic way of looking at it I'm not necessarily considering that the human race I'm considering what kind of impact will it have on on teaching my boys to be smart thinkers to become you know productive become leaders you know what does all of this mean Tik Tok What does that you know not just Tik Tok but I mean just the access to information and social media what is that doing to these Minds right and you know again I suppose you know the the just recent generation had the same conversations with shooter games right video games right so you know every every generation deals with it you know I'm sure my parents talked about rock and roll music right and we're worried about that so it's not t before that radio before that it's nothing new it's just it does seem more Insidious right it seems more because it it is it's reaching more people right and it's having more immediate impact and it's affecting the way that we think about things and how we react to news of the day right we're we're tired of Ukraine after 2 years right we were in Afghanistan for 20 years right and now we're all fatigued from it to some degree or in some fashion but took almost no time for people to get tired of and and and you know a lot of people that were out there and couldn't wait to pin a Ukraine flag in their front yard right or or or post a little Ukraine flag on on their Twitter site you know now they're all like where you know we can't spend any more money there you know so okay what happened in the short span of two years well immediate access to information and and all those opinions and ideas right and then people get siloed and they start reading only things that agree with them and then then they're they're done right now they're now they've got a hardened opinion and you can't shift them off that position right anyway we'll get back to talking to Mike in one minute but first I need to tell you about surf Shar browsing the internet without a VPN is like going for a walk in a muddy field without any shoes on you can do it but it's ill advised and you might catch something you can protect your browsing online and get access to the entire world's Netflix library for less than the price of a cup of coffee per month if you're someone that works off public Wi-Fi networks like cafes or libraries or airports the internet administrator can see all of the traffic going back and forth between your devices and the internet and that is Tre bad you do not want this also your internet service provider is able to see all of your traffic and then sell it to companies that can Target you with ads websites are split testing you for prices on products that you're already buying and even flight websites are doing this too so to protect yourself from all of this plus to access the entire world's Netflix Library you can can do that right now with one membership and it's across unlimited devices you can have it across your laptop your iPad your phone and even your smart TV you can get an 83% discount plus 3 months free by going to the link in the description below or heading to Surf shark. deals slod wisdom that's surfshark dodeals slod wisdom did you see what happened with the Super Bowl where Alicia Key's voice broke and then they went back and retroactively fixed her voice do you see this no I I you know I did not the Giant were not in the Super Bowl so I didn't watch it right well you missed you missed Alicia Keys very good performance Usher fantastic dancer still pretty ripped um Alicia ke's voice broke on the first note of this piano solo thing that she was doing but if you go back and watch the Super Bowl's recording of it on YouTube her voice is perfect and this has been I look Alicia Keys is not the vangard of us rewriting history but you can certainly see between AI being able to misrepresent how history would have been this sort of erasing of history and rewriting of the present and then this retroactive changing and even if it's just a little bit with regards to someone's voice this is different to autotuning a song this is a record of what happened in history right and I think I I'm this is starting to get quite worrying like I ER on the side of non-c conspiracism but yeah this is starting to get a bit I don't like the doors that are being opened here well and I think there's there are some uh mechanisms that are and and companies that are trying to uh or have been trying to get outad of the curve I'm not sure that that's that's possible right now but uh you have to it's it's like it's like the old days you you'd read an article in newspaper and you think okay that's very interesting well you know but is it true right I mean so what's the basis for this you know and used to be one of the defenses was sources would be named right you couldn't write an article you you wouldn't get it published if it was based on Anonymous sources well now that's not true anymore New York Times will publish a front page article on the you know top half based on Anonymous sources and so you trying to verify something right and and you push that forward to today and you say okay well now I'm trying to verify um a a clip that I'm seeing on on X right or on YouTube or something and how do you do that because the ability to manipulate video abil and audio is remarkable right there's there's you almost impossible to tell the difference basically without some assistance and so there's companies out there that are trying to ensure that you are basically imprinting actual the the truth right so you take video and that is the the original source and it's it's imprinted in the in the code that says this is the the date the time the location and so you can verify that what's being said by that political candidate or whomever right on that in on that Podium is accurate because then you may see a day later you may see the same clip but it's been altered autotuned and yeah autotuned and so there are some companies out there that are working to do that to to prevent deep fakes but it's it's very difficult because you're relying on people's curiosity and um and them having the interest right to pursue to make sure that what they're seeing and most be people don't either they don't have the time or they don't have the patience or the interest well the point with chat GPT and these llms and Ai and search engines is to reduce the friction from getting where you are to where you want to be in terms of understanding in terms of whatever it is that you're searching for right right and the fact that it's frictionless is precisely where the attraction lies it's convenience and all the rest right and if you could imagine a world in which the most convenient route also bakes in uh lack of accuracy so it goes look you can find this out in 3 seconds but there's a a accuracy yes EXA precisely you could be a little bit wrong either way or you can do your own research and it's going to take you a day and a half and you're going to know what actually happened where are people going to go of course of course and the thing is you have the opportunity it is more effortful to not portray the truth it takes more effort to do that now it's less convenient but it takes more effort to lie than it does to tell the truth well um yeah that but that but that that Gap that difference between lying and telling the truth is is shrinking right because of the technology because of the access to to be able to do this so um you know and and but you're right I mean if you just if you pair it back to just s of the human nature right if you're you know that's why if you're being interrogated you know you got to stick to the truth to the most part right you want to stay as close to the truth as possible obviously without veering off into something that's going to get your ass kicked but um the idea being because otherwise if you if you're lying you got to keep building on that you got to keep remembering and then you spend all your time thinking okay where was okay what did I say there I said that and then I said that and if you're dealing in an interrogation situation you know and that's what you're counting on you're counting on if that person's lying to me at some point they're going to get confused right and they're going to start mixing up that story and particularly if you you know in the old days you've got the ability for sleep deprivation or whatever it is right you can start messing with their mind a little bit then yes that's that's what you're counting on but so you're absolutely right in the sense that lying is much more diff aside from the fact that you know usually if you make a mistake right the best thing we we were taught this at the agency right as as as being out in the field in operations I remember uh one of my first uh bosses told me when I landed on site before I went and and off to do whatever I was doing he said you know if anything happens if you make a mistake just come tell me we we'll sort it out right but just just tell me smartest thing right you can do to empower um young people with responsibility who are given responsibility to know that if they make a mistake come forward with it tell them and sure enough you know because of you know operations in the agency out in the field sometimes things happen so you know and he was good to his work right we had a bit of a goat rope and you know it it worked out but you got to be able to do that and you got to be able to show it's not enough to say Hey you make a mistake come tell me we'll fix it you know if you kick their ass when they come admit a mistake then you've you disincentivized yeah exactly so you got to you got to follow through but you're so you're right in a sense yeah telling it's always the truth you telling the truth is always the easiest path right but I guess my point being is in the world of disinformation now if your job is is propaganda or misinformation or disinformation it's becoming a lot easier right and a lot quicker a lot more efficient right to create that than in the old days if you were going to do a propaganda campaign right change hearts and Minds in some country right that you're you're trying to sway the people you I'm not talking about overthrowing the government you know those good old days are gone so I'm sorry that's not true we never did that sort of thing come on um but the point being is that you had that was a lot of work right because what were you doing you were using old media technology right you were finding journalists who might be inclined for whatever reason to write articles in a certain tone right and you create a network of them and you'd kind of pepper the the country with you know this this narrative and you'd build on that and hope that you having in the impact much easier now are you kidding me think about you you remember Cambridge analytica yeah you remember that so you know targeted um memes and and ads that were truned into cohorts and we have the uh maybe Hillary is a non- US citizen maybe Hillary is a you know all different ways that this gets split up you had all of these different uh um vulnerabilities and vectors of attack but there was still a person making a meme or making an advert or whatever so there was still human labor getting in the way of the rapidity of this whereas now you have both the ability for AI to deliver it in a targeted Manner and also to create it so you you can have Mike Baker profile on Facebook or Instagram or Tik Tok or whatever and it's and who wouldn't want that no one wants that at all uh but and it's just you that it's targeted at so yeah I think uh yeah increasingly we're going to see real information original sources you know maybe there'll be a way where uh being an actual person on social media will be a rarity in the next five years maybe humans are going to be it's 99% of content will be created by Bots and every so often you'll see a tweet from you or or someone else that's real yeah and it's look if if you're if you're talking about a a state right if you're talking about um creating something that's going to get past the scrutiny of of um you know Chinese Intel or Russian Intel or something yeah then you're you're working your ass off right you're creating a very hard back stopped cabor elaborate cover um and it it's it's a lot of work but for the average person out there if what you're trying to do is influence a campaign or you're trying to do you know creating 10,000 uh fictional characters you know saying interesting things out there who then you know it's it's like the old concentric circles who then get 5,000 followers each and then it's I I guess but again it all comes down to the same problem right we can talk about all the you know the things you can do but individuals right it comes down to each person saying to themselves is what I'm reading or hearing or watching true you know and I don't know how you you impact that right because human nature being what it is we're just you know we're we're consuming and then moving on path of least resistance yeah path of least resistance and and to be fair most people are just trying to put food on the table or take care of their kids or whatever they're doing and so you can't ask them to spend a lot of time scrutinizing I don't have to time to be my own personal Snopes exactly it's not going to happen I can't so I think that there's you know there there's a there's always going to be this this uh this this problem and not to say that it hasn't always existed right but I I do think the acceleration is pretty impressive right the speed of which you can create this this this fake right this deep fake or or this Persona that pushes information out there whatever it may be and uh the speed with which people are willing to consume it and pass it long right so that's something we're going to be battling I think for a while and and will it impact this upcoming election of course it will and and future elections right why wouldn't you if I'm if I'm Russian intelligence or Chinese intelligence or the Iranians or who anybody who's got the resources why wouldn't I try to with the US yeah so or or the UK or really it's not it's I again it's not just a US Centric problem yes what do you think we learned from the Putin Tucker interview speaking of Russia um well Putin's a douchebag I think I I took that away but I'd say I had a preconceived notion Putin those are your prior yeah that was that was something I walked into the interview with um look I I don't I don't know I I think I understand why Tucker wanted to do it aside from just 160 million views or however many he got right I mean that was sure to be a a winner um in in just the ratings uh I don't think it revealed anything clever or knew about Putin's mindset he's a smart cat right so he knew what he was going to say how he was going to act what he was going to look like you know every I mean he's a very calculating individual right he survived Russian politics right for this long at the top right um You don't do that by being a right or or stumbling into an interview with Tucker Carlson right who's not exactly Lex luor right I mean so that you know again that and that's not beling to Tucker he's a smart guy I'm just saying that it's not like it was it was not like some Marvel you know movie where the the two evil minds got together Putin's a very calculating clever individual so I don't think we I I mean it's from my perspective I I didn't learn anything new about him um look this idea that somehow we have no interest in Ukraine and we should just you know close the curtains on it um yay Ukraine great courage for two years we all loved it you know I'll keep my bumper sticker on the car um for Ukraine and now we walk away because we don't care anymore because we're tired of it and we want to you know do something and we spend that money back of course we should spend the money at home right we got a lot of infrastructure problems and resources we should do but we also have concerns over there and so I think you know I'm I'm I'm amazed at the speed with which it happened but you could argue that about a lot of things you know the speed at which the support fell off yes the speed of which the I mean look again I I don't mean to jump all over the place but Hamas rolls into Southern Israel Slaughters 1200 people and probably the most medieval display of brutality that we've seen in our lifetimes right uh which everybody agreed was was incredibly brutal and in record time it's Israel's fault right because they've gone into Gaza to try to destroy the Hamas which has been doing this which has always been in ex resistence to destroy Israel and so yeah and of course you don't want civilians to die but Hamas is spent you know going on a couple decades now embedding themselves inside that population knowing that every time that there is a conflict civilians are going to die knowing that that's going to drive the narrative that's what they do so the speed with which that happened the speed with which we've gotten fatigued in Ukraine you know it all kind of comes back around again to this this whole idea novelty desire for something new yeah I um you know I knew that the uh Putin Tucker interview was going to be a big deal and I sort of prepared myself for yeah this like cataclysmic meeting of you know like West and and and and Soviet and I and then I I don't know I came away from it kind of just being like Oh uh just very un enlightened kind of unimpressed I think you know you have this 30 minute treaties monologue Soliloquy at the start about this is the history and this is why we feel this way and so on and so forth and you know tuck is a he's a very competent interviewer oh yeah yeah yeah usually and I you know I I don't know how difficult it must have been and this is something that people are never really going to see the intermediary of a translator between the two adds a degree of complexity that can really it's like fighting a Southpole or something you know it sort throws you off your step a little bit and um that sounds silly but you know no no they use that to I mean that that's always been the case you always use a translator to your advantage right it gives him more chance to say something back to do what right yeah very interesting but no I just it was a bit and now naani is dead yeah and that's the next and that happens what a week maybe 10 days after he sits down with chucker yeah no it it and he doesn't care right I mean we we imagine that that Russia cares what we think about them how they're portrayed and we imagine that X worries about how China you mean like they've got a a brand Equity dashb somewhere like what's our current rating oh we're at 4.4 stars on trip advisor yeah our what is that the old Q rating or the Q factor how popular are we uh yeah they they really don't care in part not so much Russia but more China because they've got the longer view right they they they look way down the road compared to to how the the West tends to do it it but um I think the the parameters of what they were allowed to do Carlson and his crew when they went in uh were pretty hard and fast right and there's as you can imagine there's a lot of back and forth that goes late as well for it yeah was two hours late which apparently he's like PA of the course with him he was riding a tiger he was doing something he was he was fighting a bear a couple of them uh but yeah if if Carlson had like borne in on or or bored in on on gershkovich right Evan gers who's sitting in in jail or Paul whe or you know um and and and in in a more aggressive fashion said okay well where's your evidence with with Evan that he's been engaged in Espionage how about that you know when are you actually going to do something about an actual you know uh open transparent effort to discuss his case um you know if You' if you'd if he had gone in on that more um but that wouldn't have been allowed to happen right that wasn't that was wasn't part of the the agreed upon you know uh playing field so I I just I I didn't think we were going to get anything new and I I didn't feel like we we did I again I understand why he did it uh had the interview um but anyway but the Nal situation um sudden death syndrome um dude you're in a false labor camp like just yeah above the Arctic Circle being alive being alive is a surprise yeah like the death isn't the surprise thing my God he lasted two and a half years yeah he went for a walk and then he didn't feel well that was their original comment you know he went for a walk and then he didn't feel well because because that's what you do above the Arctic Circle for walk go for a walk and um and then you know there was some comment that he had uh bruising around his head and his chest and their response was well he hit his head when he fell repeatedly and then the chest was when they were trying to revive him it's so from a Russian perspective it was it was exactly what you would expect and whether he was poisoned or whether they you know they they was blunt force trauma or whatever the outcome was probably always inevitable with nval because he was always a threat and what's the give the 30,000 foot View for the people who who don't know his background navali who was he he's U I'm trying to remember the year that he kind of really first surfaced um yeah I'm I'm I'm drawing a blank but he um he most not most recently but he became sort of a Critic of uh of chcha he became a Critic of some of the governance in Chia and and the corruption he started um being more vocal about primarily about corruption issues right and then he fed off of that I'm I'm really oversimplifying that but he had to be careful about how he was doing that obviously because you get you get sideways with the Russian regime pretty quickly but he started to gain a following because he was one of the few people who was actually getting out and talking about things that people you know I suppose in the back of their minds they were thinking yeah there's probably some corruption going on here in the Russian government and around the region and eventually he he went to run for mayor and that didn't end well right he didn't he got convicted are charged with u business corruption and that was kind of the first Salvo that Putin fired at him I think in in in an effort to say hey look just shut up because I think you know you're going to find this is not going to go well for you so it was business corruption you see that in China too anytime somebody gets sideways with she usually it's a corruption charge it's a some type of Mal business side yeah so um and then they disappear so naali uh made a bid for for mayor of Moscow feeling like that's where you could make a change right I think his his real mindset was if you if if he could get that post then he really could perhaps longer term influence change in Russia I mean he was he's a proponent of democracy then then then disinformation started getting there was a lot of movement from the Putin regime uh painting him in you know a lot of different ways right saying okay you're you're know far right you're an extremist you're all sorts of things started to come through um and then it kind of all went sideways he eventually ended up I think it was 20 19 2020 um he was uh on a flight got sick you know novichok was the nerve agent that they used which is serious serious invented by the Soviets um and uh so he almost died from that was out of the country and then to his credit after he recovered okay I'm going to come back straight back yeah yeah so he flew back he got arrested before he even really got anywhere near you know passport control they just picked him up and and that was pretty much it during during this period he had started to do YouTube and he was flying drones not him his team were flying drones over the top of Putin's billion dollar compound and releasing stories that he's just got like an army of hookers and and uh poll dancers and stuff just cycling their way through this place and look at all of the money and this is where it's been spent but they're you know full on like what in order to be able to go as far as they did it looks like pretty high-grade technology to be able to capture this sort of stuff yeah I mean you can it's you know again drones being what they are nowadays yes uh I like that I like that yeah real character yeah I know um so yeah the uh the Drone technology has changed everything right and it's so accessible right uh you don't need much a few bucks will get you a drone with a camera that you can you know get some really good footage of so but you're right you know talking about his his his uh is a lavish lifestyle and his spending that irked Putin on a on a personal level right and Putin only cares about one thing right right which is maintaining power same with she and you maintain power by keeping the people under control right so social unrest is the one thing that these guys all fear the most right including the mull in Iran and and and you know Kim Jong-un although he lives in kind of a fantasy world out North Korea but so nalni um you know at at at a certain point he you know it was for him it was inevitable I think that this is where it was going I mean I remember watching it unfold at the time after this guy's been popped with nerve agent and then slowly recovers and then starts doing his YouTube stuff again and this is getting in days tens of millions of playes and it's not even it's only in Russia May translate it into British subtitles or English subtitles or whatever and uh and then he like I'm not scared of you like you should be yeah yeah yeah you should be scared and as soon as he got on that plane right to go back to the motherland that was at some point within the next five years you're probably going to be dead yeah and I think that I could see the calculation that he and his his you know his wife I'm sure and and probably his close Cadre made that the most impact he can have will be in country right I mean it's one thing to be a dissident outside the country you know China's got a number of those even though the she regime tries to track them down and change their minds um but um I think navali probably spend a fair amount of time who knows but it's speculation but I suspect he spend a lot of time uh on that calculation can I have more impact outside the country or inside the country and uh to his credit he you know he flew back knowing I think exactly what was going to happen um and so that have you got any idea what these labor camps are like what you where where it is and and what it's like there do we have any information about that this was the what's known as a polar wolf it's the ik3 um uh penal colony up uh above the Arctic Circle and I personally haven't spent time there but it's um it's reported to be one of the most brutal uh camps that they've got right which tells you and it's completely isolated and that's really what they were looking to do was just to put him away somewhere where people would forget about him um to his wife's credit to his lawyer's credit right um and to a small circle of of supporters um they were able to keep some attention keep some focus on it and his mother as well uh but you know the idea being were just out of sight out of mind right and look people talked about when he died you know the headlines were all you know Putin's most prominent critic well well prominent implies that there's a bunch of others right only yeah basically only critic at this point yeah um I mean there's there's some brave people who will get on the street and and you know there were a lot of protests but then those people were being rounded up and arrested preemptively preemptively some some of them were picked up uh before there was even an opportunity to have a not even so much a protest as a memorial ser out in public right and then they refused to give the body back for a little while as well they did um you know there was some talk about well they're letting the poison dissipate um honestly you know at this point you know would who gives a yeah would would Putin would Putin's team think to themselves you know we're going to waste some poison on him up here or we're just going to you know die yeah I I who knows how he actually ended up going but uh his wife is you know promised to carry on and you know there were lots of headlines saying what does this mean for Russia it doesn't mean for Russia unfortunately right it's we we will not be talking about this unfortunately in six months time I know they laid some more sanctions on on Russia yeah 500 new sanctions largely against Russia's financial and Military sectors the round of sanctions are the most at one time since Russia invaded Ukraine two years ago and a lot of criticism that this isn't enough this isn't sufficient Biden basically made a a threat I suppose or a deal that if nabali died that there would be more sanctions we've deposited half a thousand and it seems like it was kind of like it yeah yeah how about this how about we did those sanctions two years ago when Russia invaded if we had additional sanctions we could lay on to to with their ability to make money to fund their military adventurism into Ukraine why didn't we do that before I mean what what are we half asking sanctions for so they came up with a you know sort of this price cap on oil right the only way Putin affords what he's doing in Ukraine is through energy revenues right so you know the sanctions up to this point have been like well okay well you know we're going to cap Russian oil at $60 a barrel can't buy it at a higher price well you know the world's not g to what are we talking about right so they've created this whole Shadow Fleet of merchant ships they're they've sold $35 billion worth of oil to India which turns around and refines a lot of that oil sells a lot of that product to the US and the EU right it's it's just the idea that they've got more cash in their account now in Russia than they've had in quite some time really certainly more than before the war even started because they've the sanctions have been ineffective haven't been aggressive enough and we should be doing more You could argue the same for Iran but you know again that's I don't want to disappear on other rabbit holes but um yeah I when they talked about they came out and you know they they bloviate about we're going to lay on sanctions now because of the me well you should have done those sanctions two years ago right squeezed them made it so he couldn't afford this right and maybe we wouldn't have spent billions and billions and billions of dollars to Ukraine because Putin couldn't afford to do what he's doing but that's you know I don't know I'm not president in other news this episode is brought to you by element stop having coffee first thing in the morning your adenosine system that caffeine Acton isn't working for the first 90 minutes of the day so your morning coffee that you have upon waking is completely pointless but salt acts on your adrenal system and that is what is active so taking element first thing in the morning will help you to feel more awake have less caffeine throughout the day and be more energized it'll help to regulate your appetite curb cravings and improve your brain function it's a science backed electrolyte ratio of sodium potassium and magnesium and it tastes fantastic this orange salt in water first thing in the morning is gorgeous it is my favorite way to start the day I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't love it and I was using this product long before they were a partner on the show best of all there is a no BS no questions asked refund policy so you can buy it 100% risk-free and you don't even need to return the box that's how confident they are that you'll love it right now you can get a free sample pack of all eight flavors with your first box by going to the link in the description below or heading to drink LM nt.com slod wisdom that's drink LM nt.com slod wisdom what uh I've heard you say before that Putin's goal is to rebuild the Soviet Union is that is that that's just the synopsis of what he wants to do well he's said it numerous times himself he he said that this his most um you know direct quote was the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest crisis of the 20th century right and and so I guess my my point is that he's spent the past 30 plus years trying to figure out how to rebuild it in some fashion I don't mean the entire Soviet Union but he certainly wants to to get back to something more than what he's got right he he's very keen on sort of the the glory of the Mother Land right and and okay everybody you know you can argue everybody's nationalistic you know but he's uh ambitious in a uh land crab sort of way so when he says that and when he talks about um the threat of NATO on his border right he's he's not bullshitting right he means that right so the idea that he's going to take Ukraine and if we stop Aid you know again this I people you know Washington's going to do what they do um but if they don't provide resources to Ukraine going forward if we say Ah that's that's enough let's focus on ourselves it's not important um and people rationalize that by thinking that it's just Ukraine you know why do we care it's one country um if they imagine that that's where he's going to stop he's going to end up with keev and then go yeah okay I'm good it's all fine now I don't care I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna now focus on on improving myself and and you know the Homeland um you know that's not his track record I I'm not sure where people get that that belief or optimism from I think it's it's a rationalization because they don't want to spend any more money on Ukraine because they don't see the value in um trying to prevent Putin from invading and taking over just seems in SE country yeah how much truth is there in the Russia's got declining birth rates this is close to the highest that their population is ever going to be therefore their armed forces are this is kind of a last chance attempt to be able to have the manpower to go into Ukraine is there any truth in that it's a story of SE pushed around online yeah um look they've got a 3 to1 Manpower advantage over Ukraine um and more importantly they've got uh an ability to uh suffer and put up with um pain um that I don't think the West really understands and um go back and look at their history in World War II and their losses that they were willing to uh sustain it's is the culture still the same as then though um I think it's pretty well embedded in the culture yeah I mean you can argue that it's more modern society and they've got access to information but at the end of the day um I think Putin and his and his cohorts I think they they read the people pretty well and you would imagine that you know there must be populations you know just rising up in the streets and and it's not happening right um look imp party was smart and how he was conscripting a lot of people he took them from you know sort of the Netherlands the the outer regions you know the he wasn't recruiting a lot of of uh soldiers off the streets of St Petersburg or Moscow or whatever and because he doesn't want to he doesn't necessarily want to bring the war right to Moscow and make them feel the pain right I mean they they went through that in Afghanistan to some degree when the Soviets occupied Afghanistan and eventually you know sort of the popular unrest at home uh mothers of dead soldiers you know they all started to and so he could start to feel that right I think I think they do have the appetite to wear a lot of pain and so I think they that's what Putin counts on um you know whether they'll have the Manpower I think you know Putin you know he they miscalculated so much right the the Russian military and intelligence apparatus made so many mistakes going into this Invasion um but I think one calculation that he's kind of clung to is that the West will get tired of um and that's that's kind of what's Happening you can count on the shortness of the attention span yeah and I think he he imagined I mean look he imagine NATO was going to was going to break right or splinter or there wouldn't certainly be the cohesiveness that there is and they certainly didn't anticipate it growing like NATO has but so there's a lot of mistakes there but I think he has um correctly pinned some Hope on the fact that we'd get tired of it right and that there would sort of be this popular unrest and make no stake the Russian disinformation apparatus is busy feeding that right so again goes back to what we're talking about with information that you read and trying to figure out what these opinions are on social media um why wouldn't they right it's it it's impossible to think that the Russian uh regime that the the Intel apparatus wouldn't look at the situation and go yeah we need to do what we can to influence the narrative in the states in the west right they've been doing this forever they did it in World War II to try to keep us out of World War II right before the Nazis or the Germans invaded Russia when they were Allied you know they spent a lot of time uh focused on trying to influence public opinion inside the US to keep America out of the war so it's not something new right they're just using different technology how much longer do you think manned Warfare has I think there's always going to be a a place for uh you know door kickers I don't think there's any doubt about it right you gota you got to have you've got to have some boots on the ground but the I think the pointy edge of the spear in a major in in in a major global conflict a big Global not a regional issue I that's definitely going to be um you know taking place in cyberspace um and uh I think that the the first the goal will be to kill morale at home right wherever that what will that look like well I mean you'll you'll do the usual that's why they're mapping out you know look if you went to I don't know what office it is in China but if you went to an office you would find a Playbook that Maps out the infrastructure in the US the UK the West in terms of our Power Systems uh Transportation water treatment facilities um you know how do you stop the financial systems um simple things how do you keep someone from going to a cash point and pulling out money right how do you keep somebody from being able to you know get their medicines right how do you shut down the power grid how yeah you want to you want to bring the pain to the home front as quickly as possible right and you do that by attacking the fly bers over the top of no you may now you may at a certain point you know but I I so I I think that that will be the first that will be the first major effort um the weaponization of space right you'll be looking to take out now the part of the problem when people talk about knocking out GPS well yes you can Target a country specific satellites right but um you know some of this like a massive EMP attack right uh will impact everybody right to some degree so that will be more of a targeted surgical effort but it'll certainly play a role and yeah I I I think that's that's undoubted but I don't think look we didn't imagine there would be another major land war in Europe right if you had if you had said five years ago yeah we're going to have a like a World War I like trench situation where it goes into a war of attrition you know and they make very little movement on either side and and they probably people would have thought that was crazy yeah you can go to the Imperial War Museum in London and go through the World War One exhibit right you you look at it you you see what what took place during World War I and and and how it impacted uh food production and energy production everything and you think well it seems somewhat similar so there I think that there will always be a place for that but I think what we'll see is there there will be that immediate desire to hurt the Homeland as quickly as possible and try to impact morale because knowing that that's what's going to drive domestic decisions right what about from a kinetic standpoint how much is going to be drones how much is going to be robotics how much is going to be unmanned aerial vehicles and stuff like that yeah well we're see we're seeing that in a big way right I mean we're it's almost like we're testing uh the capabilities right now and seeing what are the impacts um forward looking Gathering of intelligence right for uh sort of short-term strategic planning of of troop movements or certainly immediate impact of targeting um on on targets of opportunity uh drones um are are proving to be invaluable right and you know give the Iranian regime credit right they at some point they must have seen that several years ago because they built a certain capability in production of drones they they I think they understood the the value there uh ased a variety of other obviously you know us and and UK have been uh in advanced drone production for years right uh but um it's not just delivery of of weapons on target it's it's the Intel Gathering you know functions that drones are are really changing the battlefield in a certain way so that'll that'll play a real important role unmanned uh capabilities yeah I mean we but we've been seeing that for some time there's been arguments you know can you take the human out of out of targeting right and the decision making of of actually you know um green lighting a I guess it depends how discriminate you want to be with the damage and the collateral damage as well yeah and I think there's also there's a there's a moral implication there of saying you know do we take the human out of a decision to Target kill other humans um I think that's a that's a big leap uh I'm sure it's going to happen frankly I mean I I human nature being what it is I think the decision is going to be to drive towards whatever is most efficient and effective particularly if something kicks off if we've got a major conflict but for right now you know there's look it's happened before the Soviets had what was called the Dead Hand system which essentially uh for if if if if all their leadership was wiped out they did have a system in place that would take over and and uh continue a counter response wow and so they had that um so it's not unthought of or undeveloped it's unused um and potentially suboptimal compared with what's being used at least for the time being right yeah yeah things things have advanced since the the Dead Hand in in the old Soviet Union for sure but um yeah so I think there's what what holds people back from that is is again this uneasy feeling this moral issue of but you think that the Russians if they're prepared to put nerve agent into some dissident like Rival Well you know that's not going to be a consideration for them that doesn't seem like it would be a consideration for well but that the consideration I think is more of does it mean I lose power right does you know the calculation is okay is this the end for me then if I do something if I step over that I make myself obsolete by just becoming an algorithm in in one for it's a slippery slope all the way down well that I think is is part of it is is is that but I I I guess I was looking more towards sort of pushing the button on the big one right and saying okay we're going to get into there I think that's that's where it it it you get that hard and fast n i don't you know I want to CL on still want to centralize yes yes yeah I like my Army of hookers more than I I want to destroy I also like an army of hookers um did you see this modified rx9 Hellfire missile this flying jins Su thing have you looked at this yeah this thing is Hardcore yeah yeah yeah the I think it's six Six Samurai blades come out the it's 3 four 5T long and it can Target individual car and if you were stood two yards to the side of the car I mean it'd be a big bang and you'd know that something had happened right but you would be physically you would be fine yeah it's it's something out of a anime or a Marvel film and they got um Al zaari they got the one of the guys that supposedly was a part of 911 morning coffee on a balcony and obviously some bloke just with a little laser targeter and they sent two that just in case the first you have a backup yeah you always want a redundant system people always say ah redundancy you but no you want you want you want a backup in case it for can you imagine you step out on your balcony up your day having your morning espresso and then before you know it you just dust yeah yeah I I know it's say look it The lethality of that but but also other weapon systems is pretty you know it would shock a lot of people I think but the the Precision is also look I mean people talk about this you know and there's a lot of of focus put on that because there's I I don't think people really understand how much debate goes on before you you you know uh pull the cord on a on a Target and you think okay there's a lot of back and forth what's the blowback what what's the you know potential you know civilian damage what it it's not like the movies we say yeah go you know we don't give a you know just get the target there's a lot of back and forth and so as a result of that because people in the in the Pentagon in particular are always asking about zero risk and we want zero you know want zero collateral damage we you can't you know things are messy right so something happens and you know there's a potential for collateral damage that's the way the world works but they have worked very hard uh on the weapons technology side to try to create these these systems uh minimal collateral damage minimal collateral damage in in order to in part yeah in part it's to avoid you know the killing of civilians in part it's also to ensure that you when you've got a high value Target you know pull the trigger more pull the trigger yeah and get it done yeah yeah well if you're thinking what's this going to do what what are the Optics of this you go he's a bad guy if he's a bad guy and you know that he's a bad guy you you you pull the trigger but then you well how's this going to play in the press and all of these yes narratives begin to I guess subjugate a tactical decision with a branding decision yeah that's very very yeah I I that's I hadn't thought about that that it it is a it reduces the friction between pulling the trigger because it is less likely to cause headaches down the road right because that's always the question that's always and it's become more and more of an issue is is you know what what does that collateral damage look like and if we you know and then sometimes what they'll say is they'll say okay we have to wait we have to pull back hold fire then maybe you lose again and you lose the opportunity because that that that window opportunity on a particular Target you know that shuts really quickly sometimes and and so then you don't know whether you're and and there's a you know there can be a lot of of uh frustration involved because you know that that Target you know you you should act on it but you also know okay we got you know we do have this legitimate question so so the decision made at a higher level um is always you know it's going to fall on that that side it's going to say okay we have to we have to pull back is this a new degree of scrutiny around collateral damage yeah uh in in Warfare you know obviously collateral damage has been I know that it's a obvious example but like bombing of Dresden that type of stuff you know you it was done for collateral damage uh whereas now it seems like yeah war is supposed to be the most surgical sterile targeted precise ethical way like I only want the fuel for my rx9 Hellfire missile to be from renewable sources but you know it's an EV it's an EV we plug it in and uh we have a recharge station halfway there to Target um yeah it is it's relatively new and I think part of it it's also we keep coming back to the same thing flow of information speed of information you see the destruction of this is If people could watch Dres in being bombed right or get photos of immed people would I mean look I mean go back to the Civil War if people had you know seen actual footage of what the hell was happening in the fields of Gettysburg I mean people would have been horrified right um D-Day right if people could have seen the film that evening of what was taking place the first day you know public opinion would have would have shifted considerably but I think so yeah so that's helped to drive this idea that we got to we got to minimize that right we got to minimize that damage you still got to have Bad actors in the world you still have to deal with them you know it's not it's not a community of Nations where everybody's acting in everybody else's best interest it's right and so you have to you have to account for the fact that uh at times things are going to be unpleasant but yeah yeah I only found out speaking of the Drone thing we walked past a DJI store here in dant Miami and I didn't realize that the US had basically put so many restrict on us drone creators they said we don't want anyone who's basically able to interfere with flight paths and create this technology because we definitely don't want it at home right which left the market completely open for DJI which I didn't know is a Chinese company yeah yeah go figure and now the entire drone Market is dominated by DJ and now America are trying to play catchup and they've tried to relinquish some of these restrictions on domestic uh creators of drone technology and it's just it's there with the wind it's we we've we've done that in a number of areas right whether you're talking about I don't know lar or anything there's you know regulatory policies and and you know domestic concerns um have definitely impacted development of certain Technologies uh and the Chinese have no such restrictions right and they certainly have no such restrictions on on uh on providing uh information like they spend a great deal of time hoovering up intelligence you know from a variety of ources overseas and providing that to their private sector right and that's part of the Intel apparatus is how does that work roll in life well they steal information bring it home and and funnel it into uh supposedly private but they're they're state-owned and pseudo State operating companies um but I guess the point being is that their their Intel apparatus's primary objective aside from you know keeping the population in check is uh is to develop promote their commercial side of things their their economy right and so the two work patico together yeah we don't go out we don't you know the the the the as as an example the agency CIA wouldn't get a directive a tasking order from General Electric that says hey we need we need the plans from uh an international competitor you know that they're working on some some new engine uh component please go out and get that for us right that's not it works right now you can argue that would benefit our economy I mean if it was because it certainly benefited China's economy to have that that crossb but we have there's a firewall there so you know you don't take you know tasking with the idea that okay we're developing information here intelligence collecting it from others stealing it basically to provide it to the private sector right so there's a not an arbitrary line but there is a uh compartmentalization between the uh private and the governmental sectors in the US which means that the resources and information of both an uh and that's a good way to put it that's a really good way to put it because I would argue just along those lines which is that um we have hampered ourselves at times by not having a more robust dialogue between uh between the Intel community and now with with cyber attacks and and and the the work that goes on in cyberspace also with uh federal law enforcement which is focused on you know to some degree elements of federal law enforcement focused on preventing or or resolving cyber attacks from outside elements so I don't think we have enough of a robust dialogue between those between government and private companies right a commercial sector if you want to have a a major US company protected or a British company or whomever protected from outside hostile actors in in a in cyber terms for instance they need to know what's happening out there right they need to have more information right about the threats and how those threats develop and who's responsible and there has to be more of that ability to say okay I we've got a problem turn to whether it's the FBI or or or the agency or whomever to say how do we resolve this right and it can't just be a one-way dialogue where the commercial sector provides their information to the the government the government says thank you very much you know they need to be more informed right and and they're trying to do that to some degree now they're trying to have more of that dialogue but it's not seamless by any means it's not like in in China or even in Russia or other places where where they don't see a need for a firewall they don't believe that right because they don't really have a free market system they don't have a capital system you know but but our idea is like you can't benefit one company because it'll over other companies right yes so they don't they don't give a about that I only learned about uh the purpling of the Armed Forces recently so well can you explain what what that means like what was what what was that what was purpling of the Armed Forces H you you tell me yeah yeah yeah yeah right well so there was a particular extraction That was supposed to happen in the late '90s and a number of Navy SEALs I think it was the highest number of Navy SEALs that had ever been lost up to that point like NE maybe maybe 20 or 30 of them because there was Air Force overhead and the seals down on the ground weren't able to communicate with them and this was because each different segment of the Armed Forces acted independently they didn't have they literally didn't have the communication systems to be able to speak and it's kind of this uh integration I mean that just seems so idiotic like how did you manage to get yourself to the stage where the Air Force and the Navy and the Army weren't weren't talking to each other and it feels to me not too dissimilar to this situation and you C purpling I heard that if he Blended all of the colors of the purple yeah yeah I that makes that yeah there you go see me and my primary col learning something new every single day the siloing of of the military branches um and their development of of their own whether it's protocols uh communication systems uh assets right air platforms I mean that's why you know you you've got um in the Pentagon and DOD you've got uh you know competition going on for who's developing who's getting money for the latest you think well hold on a second you know the Marines have their own Air Force and you think what's what in a sense what's going on here why do is that the most efficient way uh but that was siloing of of of the branches right and to some degree territorial you know pissing and and kind of protection of their own turf uh development of their own internal capabilities that were uh I don't want to say redundant necessarily but um you know they there was this sense that okay you've got spec ops we need spec ops we need this you need that I mean we've got and and it's true each branch has its own obvious functions right and and Specialties but you know there wasn't this sense that okay is there more of an efficient way that they can all uh blend together and we've got maybe one element that uh combines all that does a particular thing uh is there a way to certainly on the communication side right because you'll get um development of you know a a Comm system right from the air Force right through a contractor right that in the in the old days wasn't compatible necessarily or they there wasn't their driving motive with is it compatible with what the Navy's doing or is it compatible what the Army is doing and part of that was just natural you know territorial protection right of of what they're doing and protection of their own budgets and their you know their their reputation and their you know sort of their image there's a lot in there that's sort of soft science but you could see how that would develop right and then you get you know up situations right because you have uh joint operations and suddenly you realize you know whether it's just simple protocols or it's more technical you've got real problems right because it's not seamless this lack of coordination the lack of coordination but it's the same through private and public sector it's the same through government it's the same through everything yeah well we had it I mean a major example obviously was 911 when you didn't have Federal uh State local law enforcement and the Intel Community um all on the same page communicating sharing information um taking you know targeting and saying okay who's got what on this you know let's all put it together into one big picture and see if it makes sense right none of that was happening was because again it was all siloed right Bureau was doing their thing agency was doing their thing and it say was you know Gathering there Intel uh state and local you know they were worried about their own issues and you know there there wasn't this coordinated effort um there wasn't a and and you know in part yeah that was a supreme failure right but it's it's gotten better uh but it's still you know it's still not there it's it's a human endeavor so it's never going to be you know perfect but still talking about China and the I guess threat and and degree of rivalrous you've mentioned that China is playing an incredibly long game but I've also heard that their birth rate Decline and the potential reduction in the volume of their population could be pretty catastrophic to any plans that they have how much truth do you think is in that how how much is China's plans going to be mitigated by the fact that their population might drop an awful lot over the next few years well I think it's a serious concern right I mean she you know has come out with her his government's come out with a program basically says more um I I think that was the actual title of their program um and you know create more babies so you know as a population it's probably the most popular thing she has instructed them to do in some time okay yeah yeah yeah okay you know as a husband you wait it's not that I wanted to but this is for the this is for it's for the country yeah yeah yeah yeah let's go yeah exactly just lay back and think about Queen and Country um so country yeah so it's uh it is I mean it is obviously if the government's worried about it it's a serious concern and uh you know they had the whole one child policy for a long time obviously that was going to have a lagging impact so I think that they they're trying to get ahead of the curve uh to some degree um but as you can imagine you know it's like it's like anything else you know you can you can say okay we've got a we've got a problem here we we can see that there's going to be a shortfall or a gap so let's get on it but there's always going to be a lag uh um you know that was done uh again going back to 911 there was a a real awareness um after that that in a hot wash that said look we we what a hot wash um after after a major go rope you you know you you tend after a a up after something happens I'm sorry after something happens then you sit down as a whomever you know whomever's in charge and and and elements that are are responsible sit around a table and say what the hell happened and they done some assessment and so then people put on the cards on the table and say this is where we up this is what we should have done this is how we have to improve it this is how we mitigate the risk going forward and so that's essentially a hot wash and you do that after every uh up and so after 911 as part of all of that process there was a realization that the agency the CIA had spent uh had an over focus on on Sig the signal intelligence and Technology right and had gotten away from the recruitment of spies the agency is a pretty simple organization you steal secrets you steal secrets that address National Security concerns protect National Security interests right so that you know yes you can do it through uh technology But ultimately you also need human sources you can't get away from from the need for human sources but they they kind of did they moved away from that and so there I guess my point being is the directive was we need more people we need more officers who are out there in the fields recruiting Gathering intelligence getting human sources that's where we we missed the boat to some degree here we did we we lost track of the importance of that because we got enamored with the technical side of things and started putting money and resources there had fewer and fewer recruits going into traditional operations and but that's there's a lag my point being is there's a lag to that right there you got to recruit those people that can take years right then you got to train them that takes years then you got to they got to develop right and they so and then you got the whole problem of the time it takes to identify uh develop recruit you know maintain a source right so that's a long lag time so things these things don't don't just happen uh overnight anyway so that's where I think with with China they you know they' probably got a problem but I I think they they clearly are aware of it so they're they're addressing it um I mean could you imagine here if we looked at our demographics we got a problem could you imagine the White House saying well I got a job for all you Americans yeah well speaking of that and and the sort of population in the US I'm reading more and more about the number of military age Asian men coming over the border Mexico I think Hawaii as well kind of has a little bit of this problem um yeah a little bit it's mostly the southern border okay um and it's a shocking increase like a 73% increase year onye uh in uh in uh folks from China crossing over the Border um now it's and it's again as you pointed out it's mostly single males um you don't want to see when you're in when you're in intelligence or in in in that world you don't want to get paranoid right you don't want to see a spook behind every corner right because that'll event that'll really uh jam up the ability to get done yes so um but again playing the odds and and thinking about you know probability does anyone imagine that the Chinese Intel apparatus which is incredibly well resourced and motivated would they actually look and go yeah I mean maybe this makes sense maybe we want to put a handful of people here look they've spent decades um putting their own people from uh you know actual Intel operatives to Cooperative contact through the US education system yes I'd seen that the number of uh kids that were at University somewhere that turned out to be some CCP Sleeper Agent yeah or or and and and often times they don't even have to be you know that I mean we imagine that some super spy doesn't have to even be that it's a Cooperative contact it's someone who is is you know maybe they're getting their bill footed you know maybe they're good and you know their family's getting a little bit extra something you know back home or some consideration whatever it is tell this what you're hearing just exactly you work with us and that's great and then eventually you get a job at wherever an important us company or you know they don't even care they got because again they've got the long-term view so they'll send someone to grad school here and again you don't want to say okay so every student is a spy that's not the way we're talking to it's it's just they're doing it right and we know that they're doing it and so the idea that they're not at least taking advantage of a porest border for other reasons is it would be pretty remarkable yeah if if a a Mexican family with a dude that's got a stick with a bandana and a a Satchel attached to the back of it like a hobo like riding the rails no you remember those like it was that Olden styly like sure sure he's making coffee and a can you a can of beans and he's yeah hobo Joe yeah just a good-hearted guy if you're thinking that they can get across the border yeah but that the CCP isn't going to be able to facilitate right right or you know or or the Iranians aren't going to look at it right and and think to themselves you know I'll bet we could get some people over and this a real problem it's a real problem and it look at it's it's a real problem from a national security point of view and also from just a just a look we had this incident down in uh in Athens Georgia right this poor student this uh this young 22y old girl just the other day right she went for a jog broad daylight goes for a jog um on a public Trail you know and gets attacked blunt force drama killed and now they've arrested um an illegal uh immigrant um Fell's name is uh Ibara from Venezuela uh who crossed the border I think with his wife and maybe a kid young kid um I think through El Paso maybe and then this is back in 2022 so this is his history comes from Venezuela crosses the board just walks over they release him CU they don't have room in the Detention Facility so they're just releasing people sort of a mass parole idea right and they um they' released hundreds of thousands through this it's again they call it parole but ah we don't have room for you so you go here's yourt day and I'd like you to show up in a couple of years right so they go to New York first of all he has a run in with the law in New York they release him on back on the streets and he makes his way down to Athens where I think his brother from Venezuela is residing and then now he's uh Bang up for uh murdering this 22-year-old nursing student who just goes for a Jog and um yeah and and now the interesting thing I don't want to get distracted here but the interesting thing is is how it's dealt with obviously it it's it's going to be a political issue right because it deals with an illegal immigrant and the border is such an important issue going into the election so yes it's going to become a political football but the way that the White House decided to deal with it or Democratic strategy I don't know whether anybody in the White House was clever enough to do this was basically to say hey you want to blame somebody for this sad death blame the Republicans they just blocked a bill in the Senate you know that would have provided funding for Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan but also for the border so it's the Republicans fault because for the past month and a half they've been stonewalling well that's implying that people are stupid enough to think that somehow the millions of people who have crossed the border in the past three years just came across now right during the month and a half while the Republicans have been you know jackass and around up on Capitol Hill not doing anything and so that's that's the level of stupidity that they hold for for the American public now there are people stupid enough to believe it right and there certainly are people partisan enough to buy that line of crap and go yeah it's a Republican's fault that this poor girl got killed because this guy came across in 2022 right during the three years that the the current White House has kind of ignored for a variety of reasons border security but so that's on a personal level for US citizens but on a national security level we have no idea a of the millions and millions of people who have come across unvetted right and released into the country we have no idea who they are for the most part right we have certainly have no idea how many Bad actors there are and we've caught you know hundreds on the terror watch list but who knows how many others because we've got an unknown number of known Goda alwayss you got over two million as an conservative estimate over the past two years of the current Administration who have got through without any contact with law enforcement that's just a guess right and so there's a you know no idea how many Bad actors have come across and that's if the government's job is to protect its citizens any government's job is protect its citizens then I don't know how you argue that they're doing a fine job because if you don't have a secure border and you know who's coming in and out which is why you have border controls for every other country then you know you don't have a secure Homeland but it's not a country anymore like an extension of what everybody else the the territory of the countries that are around you yeah yeah Tim Kennedy was telling me that there was this guy who appeared on the news there was a news report going on and this guy just walks across the border and turns to the camera and says something like uh America will know my name and then facial recognition turned out that this guy is on some watch list God but obviously not clever yeah not super not super I mean clever enough I'm going to be famous one day but I mean knows where he is now yeah yeah they oh they stop him no because it well I mean it was just a news reporter just some what's he going to do hold him down he doesn't know but what about um the Tran and Fentanyl route is that do you know how that's getting in have we got idea about how those drugs are getting into the country well I think to some degree the government will argue that most of it's coming in through ports of Entry right and and that's you know there's truth in that right oh you know it's not as if you you know the majority of Narcotics whether it's fentanyl or anything else is coming in on on in backpacks you know through you know uh border crossings outside of ports of Entry uh but it's both right it's all it's all of the above and so it goes back to the same thing if you have a tight border it makes it more difficult right why wouldn't you make it more difficult for narcot traffickers right and and Bad actors to cross your border it just I don't again I don't understand the rationale behind this yes the immigration policies in the States can be improved right and yes immigration has always been um a way that a country improves itself right but not by just you know letting in millions of people who you don't know who they are right no other country is going to do that right and yet we act as if it's okay right or is there anywhere else on the planet that's doing that no look we had them I think I'm I'm I'm probably going to get these numbers wrong but I think the largest mass migration uh that that you know of of modern times it's been in the 18 uh 80s I think when you know 10 million or so people came from Europe to the United States we've had 7 million people in what the past three years come in um I I'm not sure how we how we imagine that somehow we have things under control right but the look the problem that President Biden has is that as soon as he you know the the Democrat strategist looked at did this problem and said yeah we got an issue obviously the poll numbers are showing so they're acting on this because it's an election year right three years they didn't do I in fact they did the opposite of they they made it worse detention centers are unethical and we shouldn't be and look at the separation of children from families making Asylum easier making parole easier um so they actually you know created a a more porous environment and but I think they looked and they go oh God we got to do something because the election's coming up the poll numbers are so bad so you know that's that's why they're acting now as if well look what we did we we tried to push this bill through the Senate and Republicans thought okay if you're going to if you're going to normalize 5,000 people a day before you take action maybe that's not quite what we're talking about here but uh so they they've got you know and and I think they all knew that they could push a bill through that the Republicans would would back off of right that was the game that's cable deniability yeah so uh so they've got this issue but as soon as he talked about taking some executive actions then he got a hard push from the hard left right and and so all the progressives on that side said oh don't you even think about it right don't even think about like doing anything that's trump-like right it all comes back to this bizarre world that we're living in now where there's people willing to imagine that President Biden God bless him we're all getting older it I forget all the time right but but to imagine that he's not not possibly the best candidate right for another four years um but we're going to vote for him because the other option is Trump right that's the world we live in now um it's just we're we you know I don't know I I don't want to I don't want to get too cynical but I think we're you know us politics is kind of right now yeah I uh that wasn't a rocket science statement wow wow did you hear what Mike said that was a that was revelatory I've heard some new information today on this podcast yeah man I uh I don't know I've been here for two years now and obviously was observing with great interest and Intrigue more like a uh real life reality TV show with global consequences uh the the election in in 2020 um but I don't think that this year is going to be any better I think we've seen you know 20 wow 2012 was the last uncontested Mass uncontested election I think that 2016 we had this is Russia collusion 2020 we had stop the steel 2024 there is no way I mean it's like you know it's one all going into overtime yeah you go back and we we did have the the hanging chad debacle you know with with uh uh Bush and Gore right oh yes yeah I remember and so that was that was a you know but it was it was mild compared to um so uh no I I agree this is not going to be any better look again you don't want to put too much stock in polls and surveys but it does seem like they've been consistent over the past handful of months which is that you know those surveyed none of them are particularly excited in fact they they don't want a rematch of Biden and Trump um I think people are if given other op uh Alternatives I think they would they would go for it um I think the Democrats are kind of boxed in I think they you know they've they've they've got a problem here um they're not going to go for n well they're gonna have to clear the ticket right and so by that I mean if they're going to move Biden off the ticket then how do you move kamla Harris off the ticket how what's the optic of saying we're going to ask kamla Harris a woman of color who's been the vice president uh to to step a side for a white dude from California I don't know that the Democrats are willing to go with that optic um you know aside from the fact that who am I to say but KLA Harris may have straight swap may have floated to the top in a spectacular way despite her abilities and competency wow so and popularity and popularity and laugh and the laugh okay I mean everybody's got a quirk you know but still um look you you hamper yourself we we got into this world where you know we're picking people because they they you know they tick certain boxes which is a ridiculous thing to do you know I think we'd all be better off if we just said we're going for competency right and who's the best person for the job and what they could have done was done her a favor by saying we're going to pick the best person for the job and then pick her right rather than saying we're picking a woman of color if I get nominated the affirmative action thing is patronizing to the person that gets actioned well it hampers him handicaps him because you know diversity High yeah exactly so so I I never quite understood the the the notion that you would say that rather than just saying I'm going to pick the best person and then go ahead fine pick pick her but you know at least you you've given her some top I don't think anyone was prepared to eat that lie if that had been pushed forward with kamla Harris so you know the country might be stupid but they're not that stupid yeah yeah and uh yeah dude I don't know no you're right you're not no you're no you're right you're right yeah this the the remainder of this year is GNA be going to be wild but yeah Douglas Murray went to um the Streets of Philadelphia and he's seen this Tran crisis that's happening there and this this is like fentanyl's Fentanyl and it's for people for whom heroin wasn't enough and then they moved on to something stronger and that wasn't enough and now they've moved on to something stronger and it causes necrosis people's limbs are falling off and their shins are eating themselves on the street it's crazy yeah and it's and it's also a a fine demonstration of how U that that world works right you're always chasing the next product right you're always chasing because you know you've got a shelf life on the current one right because eventually you know people are going to be looking for the next kick right and so we worked counternarcotics in the agency for years right before we won the drug wars and sorry that's a terrible like so we didn't win the drug wars U uh drugs drugs won the drug wars right yeah yeah so so uh but we were working counternarcotics and and you know you could you could take a ton of gear off the street and it never would affect the price right because there's so much out there and there's so much demand and yet also there's this massive product development uh you know it's it's it's like this this Global um production uh effort that they're always looking for the next uh product to put out there so you know it's it's always going to be something coming down the pike right you and that's just the kind of the history of Narcotics on the street is there's always the next bit of gear that's going to hit the street and it's it's the iPhone 15 it's the iPhone 16 no yeah I it's one of the it's everything is working so cohesively from the synthesizers of the drugs to the designers of the drugs to the users of the drugs to the people who might have a incentive for a country and its populace to become more demoralized less healthy more of a burden generally on society everything spins up to be that and you know people are going to take drugs for just wanting to take drugs you don't need a big globalist conspiracy to turn America into a bunch of walking zombies yeah uh people will happily do that on their own yeah I mean I think there there has been this this line about you know China contributing to the fentanyl crisis in order to you know take down America and and again look never say never you know is is there Talk Amongst you know you know some you know back room there that that says well this is having a real negative impact on the west how about that you know do they view that as a downside no you know but is that driving the drug trade no the the the Demand right out there the Dynamics of drugs driving the drug trade yeah and it's and it's it's it's super depressing and it really is it's it's one of those things you look and and and it's I I you know I'm not smart enough to figure this out but I've always been fascinated by the the risk appetite right and the you know it's it's like the kids that go to a party at somebody else's house and they open up the parents medicine cabinet and they're willing to just like take a handful of whatever to see what happens right I I've never understood that mentality right that says I'm I'm willing to just give it a go and see where where it leads I think people get there one step at a time at least with what we're talking about here you know there'll be a little bit of maybe I'll start drinking and then I'll start smoking weed and then I'll do some crack and then you know before I know I've lost my job and then once I've lost my like the fact that the US doesn't have a social safety net like we do in the UK you know especially for health if you've got a mental health problem or a physical health problem you'll just get picked up and put into the hospital you'll go to A&E you know and the NHS isn't I mean it's a a bad a bad solution to an awful problem but it is way better than no solution significantly better you know and this is the you can tell the difference when you see homeless people in the States they're you know shouting things at themselves a lot of the time sort of shuffling they've got a brown bag with a unbranded glass bottle inside of it swigging God knows what out of it it's much more sort of skitzy and aggressive and forthcoming whereas in the UK If you get down to that level of mental health um disorder or or distress you just come in someone comes in and sweeps you up right and and this isn't it's not a perfect system but you know you will be given medication and a place to live and a a a bed and a nurse that will say this is what you've got schizophrenia you got bipolar disorder you got do whatever whatever uh and that's there and you don't you don't have that and unfortunately you see you know front and center downtown of every major US city oh God Los Angeles Los Angeles is is uh you drive by some of these I don't know what you call them communities or whatever but it's yeah it's it's shocking but you're right it's it's the complexity of the substance abuse with the mental health with the I'm you know I see no hope you know I've got no way to get off the street I can't afford a a so what's the point in trying um with the I think the dysfunction of local and and city and state governments that look at it and think well how come we can't just throw some money at it and solve it and without saying okay this is a very layered complex problem we've got to solve several issues here you can't just put somebody in a home if they got substance or mental you know problems and you've got you've got to deal with those right and so you're right I mean we you know we're and it's also a much larger population um and so it's it's becoming increasingly visible and so I yeah I'm I'm not sure if there's there's a there's a lack of movement it seems on the part of most major cities to try to figure out a path forward right unless the Chinese are coming to visit yes and then and then then you just take hose to the street sanitize everything you got to you got to wash all the off the sidewalks and move the people out pick up the needles everything's pristine yeah one of the things that I've been uh particularly fascinated by since since moving to America and even beforehand is the difference between how three-letter agency operatives are seen by the general public from a brand and positioning perspective and how Armed Forces veterans and acting soldiers are seen because many people you know tons of my friends that have been in the seals have then gone into the CIA and then phased out of that too so it's like a single uh pathway for some and some people just go into one or the other um but it seems like you know thank you for your service something that's said to somebody that was in the armed forces yeah your part of a globalist network of shills trying to destroy the country is said to someone from a threel agency and what do you think's going on with the optic the poor brand POS do you know what I'm talking aboutand positioning of of the people who are serving the country but one is seen to be unequivocably almost unequivocably in service and the other one is not too sure are you trying to take us down from the inside can we even trust you right yeah that's a there's there's there's a bit of a a sea change there in terms of how people view certainly the CIA and the FBI right uh over and it's it's it's very disheartening right um but yeah I I I know what you're talking about it's it's a lack of of uh trust right in in those organizations because the this narrative that they become just political tools right and that's a very dangerous thing um what I mean is a a a political Intel apparatus is a very dangerous thing right but the narrative that it came out I think is that odds with the reality right now yes you can have you know a senior you know person leading an organization who's been appointed by the president who's you know you know enjoys that top cover and and and you want the relationship right you want the dialogue you always used to say that you want the the CIA director to have a seat at the table you know in in in major discussions because that's important right to because you're you're you're asking this agency to go overseas and and do things on behalf of National Security interests so the director should have that access and and the the FBI director you know same way they're leading the the federal government's key law enforcement organization right and yet um The Narrative over the past handful of years has really shifted to the point where you know there's an element of society right that views the those agencies and and most of it's on the far right right that says you know they're they're very political they're overly political they need to be torn down and destroyed and then rebuilt you know by whoever I vote into office right which is a fourth world way looking at things right because that's what they do you know overseas in in some of the you know lesser developed Nations where they're just willing to say okay now I'm in charge you know I'm clearing out the Intel apparat I'm putting my own people in right and that's a that's exactly what they do in a in a Banana Republic I don't know if I can say Banana Republic anymore but um so that's not what you want you can't do that right so this idea that you tear down these organizations and start over again is is because the vast vast vast majority of these people just want to do their jobs right the the FBI just wants to get out there they want to solve uh a variety of problems that Face the Nation from law enforcement perspective and and the agencies you tell them what their tasks are they get out there they do their tasks they say what's the next task right and and so I'm not one of those people that sits around and goes oh my God these organizations have been yeah you know could you argue that you know some of the Senior Management you know became too enamored of of uh of a political you know uh power play or or or Administration sure right and you never want that to happen and so you have to ensure that you've got enough um proactive inquisitive questioning people within the the groups that are supposed to Senate Intel committee you know Congressional Intel committees uh and others who are supposed to ensure transparency to the degree possible but uh yeah I don't know how that narrative shifted uh I'm I'm very glad that we still have of the respect for the the military that we do I it's incredibly important and we got what what's the numbers now it's less than 1% serving the military right I mean that's that's it's incredible very few people very few people that's an understatement have skin in the game right and understand what it means to serve and I think that's a problem too right I think if we had more people young people who I don't know whether an obligation or not but somehow served whether it's through through the military or through government service or through some form of community service if you had some skin in the game I think you might develop with a somewhat different view on Civics and the importance of of of the government and and and what's best for the country and and might get outside your own little bubble but um that's not less of them and US scenario right there is this overbearing nameless faceless shadowy organization that's supposed to be a part of you but is maybe keep you down and yeah if one person from most families in one form has served in however it is that they do it then you think oh well you know Uncle John he's not he's not one of the bad guys I know I know that he's not one of the bad guys right and everybody everybody's you know put a little time in again not the draft I suppose we're never going to probably unless this is a major uh conflict we're not going into a draft but uh but some fashion uh some service at some level I think would change the dynamic for the better but um you know for for right now look I think you know the weaponization of doj that's a big topic you know certainly on the on the on the uh on the right and you know I think that's that's the result of just this dysfunctional political nature that we've got right now right where you can't you you can't find people living in the center anymore right so you've just got people screaming at each other and throwing hand grenades at each other from both sides and so naturally going to attribute the other side to doing all sorts of Nefarious getting up to all sorts of things and I you know again um I don't spend my days you know sitting staring at my Naval wondering what the doj is up to but I have a hard time believing that they're completely a political weapon of you know the current Administration or would be of the next administration of the previous one um there's again government's a very large bureaucracy and and my experience again hey everybody's got different one but mine is that most people just want to get on and do their job and live their life yes what is that what most people misunderstand about the CIA do you think that it's just people trying to do their job um yeah I I think um the the agency uh has has taken heat um like the FBI has and I think again I think part of it is The Narrative that's been driven out there in part look I mean again it's it's a well look we've been the agency's taking heat for a long time so I can't just say it's a recent thing I go back to the church commission and you go back to you know some of the the other issues that the agencies had um but yes the the the people I worked with were fantastic and we never sat around at some safe house in some hole somewhere you know talking politics nobody gave a about politics and maybe it's maybe my time has passed and maybe now the new crew does something different but I don't really think so uh I think that um for on the operation side and certainly throughout the agency um the vast majority of people know what their mission is and they do it honorably and they do it um without any pats on the back right nobody like you said walks up to him and says hey thanks for your service you know because they don't know what the hell they're doing yes and and they can't talk about it yeah and you go to you you go to your grave you know keeping a lot of Secrets right and that's the way it should be um so yeah people take it personally and and it it can impact morale right when when you're not used to this idea that somehow you know you don't expect people to go out there and go man that CIA that what a great organization but you don't expect them to walk around and go we should tear it down start over again what the hell is that all about when you're making sacrifices when you're away from your family when you're doing things in dangerous situations working hard late nights right right and and and you know and not for money by the way when I when I started I start singing about this the other day I was I was laughing with with uh with my wife uh when I started and we were doing some crazy I was making $177,000 a year 17,000 I was not doing it to get wealthy right and and I don't know anybody who does now still to this day right it's not it's that's not why you do it you're doing it because well a it's entertaining at times it's very interesting it's challenging and you feel like you're doing something more important than yourself right so that's an that's you can't that's a quality of life issue maybe anyway anyway I yeah but service you know service the fact that you don't get in in intelligence you don't get the same level of positive reinforcement from the Optics of what you did has to be I mean I think about this all the time um let's say that there's an incident and the emergency services are called an ambulance turns up and everyone is so relieved a fire truck turns up and everyone is so relieved the police turn up and everyone is so angry yeah yeah yeah right exactly so where are people going to go phones come out yes something bad's going to happen here's the police you think I'm sorry you know you want to do this job you want to go out there and and confront situations where you have no idea what's happening right and you have no idea what you're going to encounter right but you're doing it right and look are there bad actors yeah there are there folks that need you know need to be removed are there folks that need better training can they they can always that was that thing about CRA it drove me crazy about the the defund the police movement right you want a better police force then you need to actually fund them you need to spend more on training right and on consistent training and and future training you've got that's what you do um you don't defund the police now we're dealing with the aftermath of some of that in some locations uh you know that was that was a bizarre little point in time well the problem that that Trend created wasn't just an encouragement of under resourcing police departments it was the Optics of what recruiting future members of police teams will be like yeah who wants to go and take that job right who wants to go and put their life on the line or their safety or work late nights or not earn a massive amount of money or do a thankless task or push papers around a desk or whatever job it is whatever part of the big Cog of the law enforcement mechanism you were a part of who wants to go and do that you want everybody does their everyone would love to have a boss that appreciated the work that they did right and and if you walked down the street like this is one of the things you're right to say it's good that veterans and this is something we don't have in the UK there is no equivalent of thanks for your service in the UK we don't Revere our veterans in the same way you know there's no one walking around with a Vietnam veteran cap on I don't think I've ever heard uh acting um British military uh please step on the plane first I've never heard that be called in British airports so you know we don't have that that's not we've got poppy day and maybe that's about it where people get out correct yeah you November the 11th remaining World War II veterans maybe but not more recent but even within that that was that was contested last year was you know there was going to be all of these um protests from uh Middle East and Middle East uh protesters were going to have a problem there was going to be interruptions for the parade I don't know whether it actually came out as badly as it thought but there was you know poppies were being ripped down because this is part of some colonialist imperialist thing and you just think God it's so boring it's the same thing over and over again that there is some part of History which is unforgivable and that we are personally cursed with this you know yeah got to take Church stature down statue down yeah yeah yeah I read uh I read this letter that church Hill's father uh sent him after he was admitted to Sandhurst on his third attempt and it's only bits of it remain but it's Churchill's 19 and his father says uh if you do not change your ways you will become one of the the hundreds of social waals having completely squandered all of your potential and it's just he just lambasts Churchill for like a full page and then he signs off by saying your mother sends her a god mother know your mother sensor and uh and I remember thinking to myself it made me feel so sad that there was this guy that probably you know defeated the Nazis they're just rolling through Europe they hit they go through one country another country another country another country and then they just think that they're going to do the same in Britain and it's the first time that they encounter any resistance is the Battle of Britain it's the first time they actually get pushed back from anywhere people don't know this it's the first time that they ever got push back from anything was the Battle of Britain and they go okay maybe this isn't maybe the Thousand Year Reich and the Aran race isn't this indefatigable uh force that we presumed and I bet that at the end of that that Churchill probably still didn't feel enough you know that he'd managed to complete all of this stuff and he carries this desire for recognition and validation and and and and uh acceptance by the world into his motivation to do the things that he did and even Chamberlain as someone who wasn't built to do what he needed to do very famously in his resignation speech says this is the one thing that the Nazis can't they couldn't imagine someone putting their personal Pride to one side in order for the good of the country so he steps to a side so he makes a sacrifice in a very different kind of a way so that Churchill can then step up and I just think God you know there's this new uh series on Netflix called um uh World War II I think it's called from the front lines or something and they've used AI to make 4K and full color all of this archive footage it's available it's like maybe an eight episode series it's awesome and you know it's so much more immersive now that you can see it in full color they did that with World War I they uh colorized uh some incredible footage wild and improved it it was it was amazing right well it seems less uh it makes it feel much more real to see it to see it in that way and uh I'm watching this thing and thinking you know this it was one of the first times in a long time that I felt really proud about some of the things that the UK had done and then like I say now for all of the problems that we that there is over in America the UK doesn't it doesn't rever the people that have served it doesn't have uh even the the same kinds of um benefits you know you can go to a Denny's and probably if I showed my military service card I'd probably get 10% off of Denny's you know and well they still do they still do it I mean you're right I mean you pointed out the airlines right I you know I'm on Delta all the time and and one of the things they do is you know serviceman active duty and retired you know board first right so you includ in servicemen uh no no no I I I wouldn't I wouldn't ever claim that and I work I don't know what servicemen uh yeah I work for the government so the military right yeah I'm sorry military service um and uh so they they do that yeah chur Churchill um so much of what he did yeah driven by his childhood and sort of this this feeling that you know he was always trying to get affection from his mom um and uh and his dad was a his dad was a bit of a hot mess but fascinating character um yeah but then they vote him out after you know hey we won World War II sorry you're out yeah and uh you know it's it's fascinating stories um I just uh reread the uh that three book series The Last Lion which is a fantastic look at it's it's a a history of Churchill covers you know uh birth to death and it's a lot of detail but it's very readable and it's just it but there's a lot of it but what did you what what was some of the things that surprised you the most learning about him um I think oddly enough because I've read a lot about uh World War II history his relationship with Roosevelt and and uh so the World War II Section although probably moved the quickest was the most you know was was super interesting I think that the the latter part right and also sort of prior to that his I mean his his involvement with the uh the Irish uh troubles uh that was very interesting I think and but then after afterwards it's getting out of World War II and how his uh political career uh kind of stagnated and then and then resurged and and it it was it's a very interesting look there's also there's also a book written by his physician uh Lord Moran I believe it was it was the name of the physician um and he had Churchill's uh okay once he uh passed away to write up his notes into a book right and he traveled with church all over the place the conferences and and throughout the World War II as his personal physician and it's a it's a great uh book not not very long you read that I have read it and I'm trying to trying to remember the name of the book but it's it's written by a uh his doctor and again I think Moran was his last name Lord Mor what was he saying about Churchill's State of Mind his physical health his mental health all well look it's not it it wasn't you know there was it wasn't like a kiss and tell book right so there was no shocking negative Revelation only had one Tes he had four which was really surprising um but he um so it's not like today where you know you you know the idea if you get you know uh a contract to publish a book then you're expected to produce something shocking in it you know based on your experience uh I don't think that was the case it was it was fairly complimentary of of Churchill throughout right uh he obviously had a great deal of respect for him um but it did talk about his um a variety things his capacity for um you know enjoying his own ideas and hearing himself speak uh his capacity for drink yes yeah um but his um his ability to um manipulate conversation to get the result that he wanted right and and he you know he his ability to win an argument uh because of his ability to verbal Mastery yes it was yeah pretty remarkable so um yeah uh what was it it was that that that movie The Darkest Hour did you see that yeah there was a good line in there about he he took the English language and and sent it to war you know during his his uh famous speech to Parliament you know um but I think um yeah he's a fascinating character I I you know that's why I was I I that original comment about like this about okay we have to rewrite history and remove you know memories of Churchill because you know oh my God look at you know he was he was a racist or product of time right I mean things move on right so things happen in a in a time frame we should be smart enough to understand what the context was and move on but the Assumption there is that people are so fragile that they can't deal with history it's like just look I'm not one to quote this guy but there is a a leftist streamer called Hassan ABI who lot of people have huge problems with and I agree with an essentially nothing but he's got a phenomenal line where he says analysis is not justification analysis is not justification looking at why something occurred doesn't mean that you agree with it right but the alternative is to just sort of plug your head in the sand and have be completely ignorant of it which makes you even worse off that's putting you at a real disadvantage yeah speaking of Churchill I got sent for for Christmas from a friend I got sent some of the champagne that he drank oh PA yes yes yes I got sent a bottle of that and I learned I learned from him that Churchill commanded them to make a special customized bottle did you know about this no so he found out in his opinion a half bottle was insufficient and a full bottle was too much so he commanded them to make a pint bottle of of that that's fantastic of that champagne it tastes it tastes like sparkling apple juice it's phenomenal um and uh yeah a a half bottle was too too little and a full bottle was too much he wanted to be able to function but he needed it and it was you know it followed him around these special bottles would follow him around all of his meeting every single lunch me he would always have one of these things that I thought that that was that was fantastic that he would make it a little bigger not that big yeah it was I mean it it was crazy I mean some of the things that like World War I I mean he was on the front lines right he went to the front lines but but he took his bathtub with him right yeah he had his bathtub there in front lines so that he could bathe right so I mean there little these little stories that are that're incredible about the time right because anyway there's there's there's a ton of those in in uh in that again the last line if people have some time on their hands and they're looking for something and three part yeah three three three book series and they want to dive deep into it um it's it's well worth the read have you ever looked at Theodore Morell Hitler's physician no no that's interesting fascinating individual so uh I think it's maybe the very beginning of World War II or perhaps before Hitler's suffering really badly with indigestion some stomach and sort of gut issues and he finds the Dr Theodore Morel who is this sort of quack Doctor Who uses all manner of homeopathic sort of progressive remedies but Hitler recovers Maybe by fluke or maybe actually through whatever it is so he immediately as all manic people do proclaims that this is you know this guy is a medical God uh and now moral is part of the Inner Circle but the rest of the Inner Circle absolutely hated him himler detested him Gobles detested him he was very messy was a horribly loud eater he would his breath would stink he was superbly unclean so you know the clinical manner of this guy that was the personal position to the furer was just not there he' be there at dinner and he would be sort of shoveling food into his mouth and he was a really fat sort of guy and uh by the end of the war the concoction of drugs that Hitler was on is absolutely insane so he's getting injected with bull Seaman he's on basically meth he's on a a concoction of stimulants uppers and downers and then you know there's a a really famous meeting I think between him and musolini and uh he just completely flies off the handle and it's supposedly due to some uh concoction issue or some dosage issue that happened that day and morel's writing in his uh diary about you know the fur was this way today gave him you know so he's got so he's actually tracking his yeah yeah all of the stuff it's like a whoop band from 1945 wow and um it's there's a bunch of different documentary you just search like Hitler's phys or the morel online so interesting but yeah I wonder I mean if it wasn't plain enough already this isn't me trying to excuse Hitler yeah that's bad look get that out get that out too soon but I wonder how much of the mental demise and complete Insanity you know we're going to try and go east into Russia at the same time as we try and go north into France as we tried to defend you know as we Tred to go south into Africa how much of that can be attributed to this guy just being in a stuper you know propped up on this cocktail of drugs by this total quack yeah yeah I'm still thinking about you I'm not trying to dismiss Hitler's actions I do yeah yeah saying he just a drug addict he was on the Streets of Philadelphia yeah like it was he wasn't he wasn't thinking straight yeah um yeah it's it's fasc well I'll definitely look that up because I I did enjoy this Lord Moran's small book on on his experience as a physician for Churchill so I can imagine there's you know it's it's that same kind of thought process the Insight that you get you know the the level of intimacy that you have with a physician uh is very high and you you you know it's it's the things that you maybe don't even admit to yourself about the fact that I I had that pain in my knee for a while but you know how much is that impacting your sleep how much is that impact you know all of the things down the line but yeah um yeah a bad day and he just say you know gets a shot of bull Seaman and says let's let's invade Russia let's do it yeah yeah let's go for I bet this is going to work out well for us yes uh although he did he did assume it was going to take very little time um you know they would have if if it hadn't been for the that winter I think that they could have maybe continued to steamroll through yeah well I think yeah that that certainly played a the the the the key role I think um he was getting advice against it but uh that never you know swayed what he was doing but I think that there was there was this uh lack of appreciation of size of vastness right and and what that would do Supply chains yeah and or supply lines so and then all of the trucks got stuck in the mud right trying to resupply who was the guy who was the dude from his inner circle that custom edited the fuel tank on a plane flew to Scotland to try and uh persuade the king it was one of his God damn it it was the dude anyway there there's a story it's sort of 1943 1944 and uh everything's kind of at a stalemate but the Germans believe that the British think they they're going to be overrun and they're kind of just waiting for this they really don't understand that Churchill's going to keep on pushing so this guy gets one of the bombers to be fitted with longrange fuel tanks custom built and then without any without informing anyone him himself flies because he had once met a PR he met some jke or some Monarch someone that was part of something and decided to fly himself from Germany to Scotland and then jumps out in a parachute thinking that he's going to be welcomed as the envoy and you know what what's fascinating here there's another great series on Netflix called uh Churchill's Inner Circle I think um and uh it shows the how swayed everyone's opinions became because the polit political backbiting of wanting to be the closest to the eagle nest and and to to Hitler and so on and so forth and yeah this guy was adamant basically was driven by this sort of love for validation and this unrequited desire to be part of this Inner Circle and to be back in Hitler's good graces that if I flew to to Scotland and did and obviously he just immediately gets taken to prison and and that doesn't happen and apparently Hitler finds out about this and just You' waking up one morning cuz he wouldn't wake up he'd have these you know meth fueled di tribes until 3 in the morning and no one would leave no one would be able to leave as he's there and he's shouting and screaming and doing all the rest of it and everyone's just like wish he'd shut up and I really got to get some sleep in yeah and then uh the next day he'd wake up but yeah you wake up one day and you find out that some blog's still in a c built bomber and land crash landed it in Scotland jumped out in a parachute yeah you don't hear that every day if you're Hitler bad it's a bad morning uh but you know luckily your doctor there what was his name Morel Morel Morel pick you up yeah get a nice line of cocaine good God uh intuitive machines first ever commercial vehicle to land on the Moon that happened yeah that did that happened that that thing happened um yeah I you know I guess um didn't it tip over on its side it's still operational yeah still working but maybe suboptimally yeah um yeah I mean it it is interesting when you think about um where are we going with that right what are we thinking about I mean is supposed to be going back to the Moon soon yeah and there's still that talk about you know and that'll fuel the desire to go to Mars and and um I don't know I mean I I I I had lived through I was a young young person but I did live through the moon landing and you know that whole initial russan excitement of of uh of moonshots and what that meant and and that sort of feeling like okay we're just putting duct tape on things and flying them to the moon and and kind of was the way it was right didn't have that calculation too right you can imagine nowadays you know trying to get and we can see that in terms of the bureaucracy of NASA and how NASA now relies on private sector um to try to push this whole process forward right but you know people got fatigued pretty quickly back in the day uh with the moonshots right it was like okay here we go we're going to The Landing again what's what what's the point right it's a little bit like Ukraine what's the point why are we why are we spending all this money right same concept no novelty anymore uh so I'm not sure you know again I'm I'm definitely nobody's turning to me for scientific Insight um but I I I'm hopeful that if there is a vast upside to this that the government will do a better job of explaining why it's important right but I do imagine that you know NASA's best days in terms of resourcing are probably behind it you know and so that's this drive towards the commercial side I think that's that's terrific it innovates a lot um and again going back to that conversation about the sharing of information and uh Insight between the government and private sector uh it's a good example of why it's important y um you know the agency um you know there was a inel right designed to try to Foster that development of more technology uh out in the private sector um so that's a that it's an ongoing process but I looked at the the moon landing here and I guess you know maybe I'm like a lot of people but I was like oh okay yeah we landed on the moon great yeah okay now what right I I I I I maybe I'm disappointed in myself for not being more fascinated well I think you know whether we like it or not much of what we're doing is an attention and an Optics game and you know for instance do you remember Red Bull Stratos do you remember when Felix bom gotten a jumped from the edge of space yeah you know and you've got I think it's like a Biffy kro song it's it's like beautiful voice and it's like a rock song and it's made into this perfect trailer and the whole thing was tracked and it was live streamed and you know there's drama and he's not getting into the all this stuff and I remember looking at that and going that's that's like that's amazing and he's got nowhere near the moon yeah and so much of it is not understanding how humans interpret things not understanding the second third fourth order effects of okay and what happens if we release this and what happens if we release that and what happens Downstream defund the police what happens if we do this well it's going to damage certain communities and it's going to disincentivize police officers and which are the communities in which are going to be the most damaged by this well it's the ones that we're trying to save I think that NASA and anyone that wants to achieve public support and interest in anything should be looking way more at advertising and human behavior and psychology more than they're looking at Logistics and operations and deficiency because you need to get Buy in an excitement from the I mean dude if you did a GoFundMe or like some you know like an equivalent thing to be like do you want and and you will have this is how far you moved the rocket you know your $10 moved the rocket like you know like one millimeter or whatever like what however you want to do it incentivizing people like that I think would be so great and we have the opportunity to do it but as you said there how is it that we've managed to get so much more advanced and so much less efficient yeah from NASA being able to just put it going whereas all of the technology in the world you know your smartphone's more powerful than the entire room that NASA had in 1965 or whatever it was and the thing fell on its I just imagine you know like this this character from uh Wall E do you remember that movie wall that a fantastic movie right 45 minutes into it before they had the first piece of dialogue right but you were captivated by it but anyway that's it's neither here nor there but but I think yeah it's the um it it's the the messaging um and I guess in part a good example of that would be Ukraine I think the government the US Administration in particular has done a terrible job of messaging explaining why it's important to the the public and continually explaining and talking about it explaining why this is important um to the US uh if they believe it is right then why and you know why the money's necessary and how the money is being spent there wasn't enough transparency around look Ukraine had has had a very bad reputation of corruption for decades right very corrupt country lots of problems documented okay it's not so there should have been more awareness that if we're going to throw billions and billions of dollars over there that we should also have an effort to ensure that there's some transparency more transparency than there has been in terms of how it's being SP right cuz that's also in Ukraine's best interest right to to battle or to be seen as battling corruption to ensure they maintain this extend the longevity of support yeah so what do you get you get you know there have been a handful of of uh corruption charges you know some dismissals over there in Ukraine I think zalinsky understands he's got to be seen as battling this problem but the US government on its part hasn't done a a good enough job of explaining to the American public why you know and and and how it's being done and I think if they had they could have tamped down some of this right but you know it's also coming from an unexpected place right the right right the the Republican party for the most part is seeming to be the and so now you got the Democrats in the position of being the warhawks and the Republicans being the ones no you know let's focus on us first you know and you again this idea that we can't multitask of course we can multitask we should be able to do all of these things right border security worry about this um you know deal with International crisis but um sometimes it it it seems like we're you know we're unable to to do that well we we we go from one problem to another problem without seeming to understand that everything's connected in a way right is the is there something that unlocks at least a beginning of these problems is is a potential root out of this to just improve inter agency communication is it to be more transparent when it comes to the public like you know there's a lot of issues there's a lot of problems from the political standpoint to the military standpoint to the international standpoint to the supply chains to the drugs the immigration all that stuff are these all individual targeted problems that require very specific Solutions or are there some fundamental uh unifying threads that are problems kind of throughout all of these that if those were unpicked at least would would free up some stuff Downstream yeah I think there there are some um commonalities I think between some of the major issues that we're facing I think one of the problems that the government not just this Administration any Administration is recently has has been slow to understand is is is again the the access to information that the public has right and they've been slow to understand what that means in terms of how they should deal with the public right so I think you can you can sidestep some of the uh some of the the the reluctance of the public to get behind you know whatever it may be border security well why is that important why do we need to have tight border security why do we need to support Ukraine in effort against Russia's adventurism what what's the point of that so I think that's one one element um I think a Common Thread with a lot of the problems that we face in the US anyway um is from a political standpoint and by by that I mean I think something that would I believe this anyway maybe other people think it's but uh I think if we had term limits um I think that would be a really positive step for politicians for uh for congressmen and Senators right okay yeah because we do for the president but we don't for right right so I think if we had you know if we if we were able to figure out a way I don't think we will to do that then I think you take you start to take some of the self-interest out of it right um you know nobody should be sitting up on Capitol Hill as a seven or eight term Senator does that not create the same issue that we have with the presidency though where people just try and they don't have enough time in office to be able to get anything done and there's there's different incentives yeah no I think if you give look give uh give every Congressman uh Congress person I guess um two four-year terms right now it's two-year term a to your term is is nonsensical right that's based on you know when the nation was founded right and Washington DC was a swamp and no one wanted to be there because they had to get back to the the the farm um so I think if you gave every Congress person two uh four-year terms and you give every Senator two six-year terms they currently run six-year terms but not in perpetuity right so it's it's it's absurd when you look at it um and and you realize the self-interest involved the the the wealth that some of these folks have built up over multiple terms of being in Washington DC earning a fixed government salary right there a fascinating actually that's a really interesting um uh stock tracking uh system where you can invest based on Elizabeth Warren Nancy Pelosi Nancy Pelos yeah and her husband Paul Pelosi what they're investing in right and you can do remarkably well the Pelosi stock tracker.com or something it's it's fascinating and and I think but if you take that if you take the self-interest out of it and you take some to some degree the special interest ability right look if I know that you're going to be the head of the Ways and Means Committee for you know 42 years or whatever I'm you know I'm going to act a certain way and I'm going to invest a lot in in my relationship with you right if I'm dealing with somebody who's only there for two terms right eight years or what 12 years if you're a senator um yeah I don't have the same hook right I don't have the same ability to long-term influence you and and and push you in a certain way for regulatory concerns or whatever it might be um again you know the the the push sometimes has been um you know you need to be here I think Ted Kennedy used to say you need you know you know you need to be up here a long time before you can understand all the intricate rules and how it works thinking that just sounds like someone who doesn't want to be replaced right it's like an IT director who creates a system inside the company that's so complex only understand only he understands it okay so better communication to the public uh term limits potentially for the people that are inside of the system anything else yeah um you know in terms of in terms of some of the common you know problems that face I think there there there are uh issues whether it's border security or you know foreign policy decisions that are separate and distinct from from each other I think uh so I I I don't know that I clever enough to find the common thread that binds all those together but I think um I look more at terms of how do you create a more functional government how you create something that's more effective and with less uh self interest and you know I keep coming back and you know campaign Finance reform uh if you need to spend $40 million to get yourself elected I think that means the system's kind of um if you can't explain your position to your constituents you know for okay let's say a couple million dollars then there's something wrong with this system right you're we're we're cancelling out a large number of people who could be very qualified and very well meaning but I think most sane people look at the system the way it is now and say I would never throw my hat in the ring for that yes you it doesn't make any sense so you you but it's self it's kind of self-limiting and it and it and it determines a certain type of person who goes into politics I think so anyway uh that's again not probably anything new but um yeah every now and then I like to get up on the term limit Soap Box yes yeah I uh I was reading just this morning about Australia has built the biggest Navy since World War II or that's that plan now the largest Fleet that we will have had since the end of the second world war said defense minister Richard Marley on Tuesday it outlined a decade long plan to double its Fleet of major warships and boost defense spending by an additional $7 billion in the face of quickening asia-pacific arms races yeah it's China's influence right China's been massively aggressive uh over the past decade in building out their their military the Navy in particular and so that's a direct response um you look at U Japan South Korea um you know it's it's all the same concern it's the aggressiveness of uh China particularly in the in in the short term in the South Pacific uh region which they've always viewed as theirs and they've always been irritated by the fact that you know we uh the the West plays a role there um as far as they're concerned it's their Turf so um but they've been expanding their uh military opening you know for the first time uh foreign ports uh well they've got that um they do that thing where they make bases out of little Islands right and it it it extends the like the boundary of what is China can you explain what that is yeah yeah you just Mak an artificial um military facilities um they're not much to look at there you know maybe it starts off as a sh and then you just you know you just U you know come in there and pour a bunch of debris and concrete it and you know tarmac it and next thing you know you got an airst strip you know and then you you know that part of your territory and that that can impact your uh international waters claims right because you got whatever like 10 mile radius around all of these and more of these that you can claim right and so you I mean there there's a lot of conflict Philippines Vietnam you know Spradley islands is an example there's there's a lot of conflict over this in in that region but most people look at it and go right really it's the Philippines versus China I don't think that's a you but the the alliance that we have out there the Azie and Alliance and and and and others very important um in terms of not you know it's it's tempering China's Global Ambitions right in a sense right and and there's a you know there's a lot of nervousness there look Taiwan we haven't even touched on the issue of what's the future of Taiwan right I mean like they rolled over during the pandemic they you know they literally put out the last uh little bits of democracy in Hong Kong right nobody gave a anymore because people had got in their head around the idea that okay it's you know it's China again yeah game over but you know we were all looking over here at the pandemic and you know there's there's no more remnants of democracy or democracy movement in Hong Kong so they were successful there um Taiwan is a you know it's it's a different animal I think it's a slow game for them it's a soft takeover I think it's how envisioning it we always imagine oh there's going to be an invasion of Taiwan I don't think you know Chinese military and she in particular they look at that and probably go ah it's too chaotic right they don't like chaos they don't want anything that's necessarily unpredictable but they also look at at our support for Ukraine and think okay you know so so what they'd be upset with us for a couple of years right and then we're going to get back to their own business so you know the the the idea of One China policy um you know it's been a comfortable uh Kick the Can down the road you know concept for for forever uh but I think that if you look at the Timeline when do they really want to uh bring Taiwan back into the fold I think you have to look at she and say okay is he going to leave office without doing that or does he want that as his key Legacy right crowning achievement his crowning achievement so I think then you look at shei and you look at his health and you look at his you know tenure and how long is that going to last and you think okay maybe sometime within that period of time is when is a move I who knows I mean it depends again it depends on his health it depends on you know not so much internal politics he seems to having a massive grip on there right you got to go back to ma maybe before you find someone who had that sort of lock on things and he's he's he's fortified the the uh the the security services right and he's removed kind of the concept of rule of law and you know some folks would would disagree and say oh it's a great place to do business and yeah you have to do business there you know it's not you don't you don't decouple from China it's not possible in today's world but you have to be more pragmatic about it right and um you know so I think we have to be aware of and and and companies are I think for the most part nowadays it's better than it was even 10 years ago but nowadays you know the companies that we deal with uh in the private sector you know they're they're aware of the fact that if they start to go over to China they build a factory they build a you know some sort of research facility that intelligence that information that proprietary data is going to end up with the Chinese right it's they can't protect it right and so you know but 10 years ago or longer you know that was a thought well how do we how do we keep our IP safe well you don't is the answer they're going to have it and so and a lot of companies are happy to sign agreements that basically allow that right because they want that market and so and China's always counted on that right we're the Holy Grail of commercialism right you want to sell here so they've used that to their advantage but uh anyway the Taiwan thing I think is is more of a simple uh calculation because I I do believe that that she doesn't want to walk off into the sunset without having that happen in his time frame so wow anyway very spicy yeah I don't know man I mean being a citizen that even cares remotely about the future is a very very scary and confusing like world you know what I mean like we've got the there's stuff happening in the Middle East and there's stuff happening in the the sort of northeast of Europe and then there's stuff happening in the far east as well and then we've got things happening at home or Southern border border crisis then we've got 2024 election and that's happening and then you've got the general elections going to happen in the UK and you right you know all of this stuff you know the dude in El Salvador just got elected with an 85% approval rating and then put like half of the country in jail then you've got this guy in Argentina a you got that guy like and it's just there's so much up upheaval and our access to it has never been more seamless and and instant and it doesn't surprise me that people are kind of checking out losing faith in media losing faith generally in in their ability to sense make you know it's a confusing time and um you might say well you know the you have the opportunity to discern the information for yourself would you rather not have access to it at all I'm like well look more information is good but also comes it Bears a cost and the cost is that everybody now has to do their own sense making and that's very uous and and it's also has a has a mental cost right because you do feel overwhelmed right and you know I I don't think there's that many people who can just check out either because they don't have the the means or you know they just don't have the ability to to say okay I'm not going to worry about this they're still going to sit and worry about things right and you can see that that The Angst that some people have on social media about that can't control right but yet they spend time focused on right or the anger that they have over certain things and you think okay dial it back a little bit you know there's one thing to be informed there's another thing to be uh you know U outraged how do you how do you given that you knee deep in all of these stories and stuff how do you bate that emotionally for yourself how do you not get too caught up in the potential turmoil and and catastrophes that occur yeah uh well a I think you have to know your limitations right I'm not you know I'm not impacting much other than my family right um so I think you have to you have to look at it from that perspective um the agency also the agency I learned I learned to I think if I had to think about it most of what I've learned that has been really valuable to me um has either come from my time with the agency or um for my family that's it dealing with uh my family and and understanding how best to do that uh or my time with the agency and and the time with the agency they they they there was a lot of things that you could pick up if you know if you thought about it and I I sometimes didn't realize it at the time but um one of those things is you can't you you you're not there to impact you know great decision making right you're there to do a task you're there to to to to to do something right and I was never one of those people who sat around and and and wondered to myself I wonder how the seventh floor is going to deal with this right or geez I wonder why they made that decision on this policy issue you know tell me what the job is right what's important right now and then and then do it and then move on to the next job right and so you you develop you know unless you're you know overthinking things you develop a a certain ability to just um compartmentalize and and then move on give bit yeah and also you realize that there's not that many decisions on the decision tree or or branches on the decision tree right people get very wrapped around the axle over you know what to do do I go here do I do I move right do I move left do I do what how do I deal with this this problem facing it and when you when you look at a problem usually there's not that many options in terms of what you can do to resolve the problem to move on to to to have some resolution and so I think the agency was was very good about you know having you understand here here's something happening what are my options and you and you drill down very quickly and realize I got two options or maybe I got three but one of them's kind of so now I got two again um and so you learn how to do that very quickly and I I think that that proved to be really really valuable I mean I got out had no business experience no business going into business right I just I people thought I was insane to leave and um so I started it with a a really great friend of mine who came out of the British teams and um we had no idea what we were doing but because we had similar uh backgrounds and experience it didn't matter right we just looked at it and go okay well we've made this decision now what are our choices and our choices were very clear right do this do that okay now we've done that now now move on and we didn't overthink anything right we just kind of marched on accomplished a task then moved on to the next one and it was all because the at least for me anyway the agency had kind of taught you that and it also taught you to make a decision without perfect information right A lot of people sit around and wait to gather all the data right and people love data now because it's so readily available and the agency taught us very early on you know that if you sit and wait for that happy day when you get all your information something bad's going to happen lowering the action threshold a little bit yeah yeah so that window closes or you know next thing you know you got to everything's going sideways so you learn to make decisions with imperfect information right and just move on right and and not sit around and stare at your Naval and wonder whether it was the right decision or not and I I've never I've never been one of those people I've never sat and angsty and thought to myself geez if I done that I could have you know because I I don't see where that that benefits anybody but so that's uh that's kind of it I try I try to teach that to my boys that life is not as difficult as we try to make it out to be right you you you know life can be fairly simple right and you know what you have to do is you have to decide you're going to work a little bit harder than everybody else which isn't hard because there's a lot of you know there's a lot of folks not working as hard as they could and if you do that then your your results are that much bigger right you you stand out that much more because you're willing to just put out a little bit more effort trying to teach that to kids is tough because in you know at that age they Envision that as going I can't do that I mean that's that's I'm doing everything I can they have no idea what they're capable of doing so when you say you got to work a little bit harder and then you'll realize those benefits um it can it can be a difficult process but that's I think one of the most important things you can you can teach your kids and also again not to not to make life more difficult than it is right and and and that's uh that's been my primary objective with my boys you know is and and and my daughter who's who's grown up now she's terrific kid but uh the boys are younger and and so trying to get them to understand that and to push themselves a little bit harder I mean everybody wants the same thing you want to produce productive you know good people uh you know the world's got enough average people I don't I'm my job is not to produce average you know adults uh you know from the kids that we've got so anyway uh I'm not sure where I was going with that I think there's definitely a an Allure of over complicating things because it feels sophisticated to have this high threshold for information and to you know have a a very well planned out or structure and this is where we're going to go and it's so and so forth um but yeah you often end up being defeated by somebody who's just able to move more quickly than you yes with imperfect information and and finding the balance between these two things because there are certain areas where I don't think that you should compromise on quality you know if you're if you're going to do your press release don't rush it right uh you know when it comes to naming and branding and incorporating and things like that you should move relatively slowly to ensure that you're getting this thing done right but knowing where the battles for Perfection lie are very very important right and you have to you you have to strike the balance between speed and and uh and Effectiveness and quality obviously uh particularly in in the commercial sector I I mean we've dealt with with companies that uh go into New Markets on regular basis right and so they have to do an assessment of that environment and understand what the competitors are doing and and Etc but we've dealt with some very large corporations it's you know where their mindset is look we got to get into the market right and if we make some mistakes fine we'll we'll clean up right but we have to be in the market now and so they they will Rush that process and yes they make some mistakes now they're big enough as entities as corporations to to to recover from that but if you're a small operation right if you're starting up in particular you you can't afford to make that mistake game over but game over exactly but so it it does depend on it does it depends on size but um it is interesting that that you know I remember having conversation with one corporate I can't really name them but one um they're a a manufacturer of of a very well-known consumer product and that was their whole point no we understand that it's going to take a little more time to evaluate the environment what the competitors are doing but we don't have time and we're going and yes they made mistakes and it took them some time took them a lot of money to recover but they did um so I guess they were proven right at the end of the day yeah anyway yeah Mike Baker ladies and gentlemen Mike I appreciate the hell out you thank you for coming through no thank you man I think I really appreciate this was a great conversation really enjoyed it and hopefully I didn't bore you no not at all where should people go they want to keep up to date with all of the things that you're doing uh well um I'm on X we call it X now don't we uh at MB company man um you know for all your Global intelligence and security needs of course there's Portman Square group and uh and we've got the uh the podcast which has turned out to be a wonderful Adventure the president's Daily Brief and it's uh every morning in about 20 minutes you get your top stories of the day facts and just a tiny bit of context and then the afternoon version is about 10 minutes uh you get updates on some of the top stories and get to move on your way Bob's your uncle and uh actually I just I learned not too long ago where Bob's your uncle came from as a saying and it's fascinating I'll just tell people you Google that Google the origins of Bob's your uncle okay as a saying I don't know if people still say it maybe they don't but if they do check it out anyway so the president's Daily Brief uh every day week days uh it's been a great experience so far we just uh kicked it off I I started in September and uh we've been you know available on all your podcast platforms look at me I'm a marketing whz I know you're down here in the muck and the Maya with the rest of us making Mike I really appreciate you thank you man thank you [Music]