The Hidden Danger of Accepting Social Norms - George Mack

Speaking of football, do you know who Cristiano Ronaldo was named after? Go on. You're a big fan of football. How do you not one of the most famous, maybe the most famous player on the planet? Who do you think Cristiano Ronaldo was named after? >> Well, it wouldn't be the Brazilian Ronaldo cuz he was the almost overlapped in terms of careers. >> Oh. Is it Ronald Reagan? >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. >> Wow. >> My parents named me after Ronald Reagan because they both liked this name and thought it sounded strong. Ronaldo, whose full name is Cristiano Ronaldo dos dos Santos Aveiro said in a GQ cover story, "I know that my father admired him." Ronaldo was born February 5th, 1985 while Reagan was still president of the United States, but according to Ronaldo, his dad was a fan long before then. Told Riley that Reagan was his dad's favorite actor. That said, he wasn't too sure how the Republican leader would have felt about Ronaldo's outfit in the GQ cover that accompanied the article. Let's just say it's not very conservative. Now that we've got an image of the outfit that uh Ronaldo had. >> Oh, wow. Ronald Reagan. I mean, identical, right? That's very much nominative determinism right there. I forgot cuz I was I was so not being in America, too young for it as well. I forgot the fact that Reagan was an actor. Mhm. He was an actor beforehand. Was he in big movies and stuff? >> I believe so, yeah. >> Okay. It's kind of the prequel to to Trump in a lot of way. There's also, if you like footballers' names, there's a South American player called Osama bin Laden whose brother is I believe called Saddam Hussein. >> Can you search chat GPT? And is it V I N? >> I think it's bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, two brothers in South America. >> This does sound too good to be true. And like you've been gazumped by it. >> Well, it's interesting, particularly like Brazilian names. They often decide their own names. So, you've kind you've got uh Ronaldinho Fred, um Hulk great name. >> Pepe? >> Pepe, well Pepe's Portuguese, but they often just it unlike us they just kind of they don't often go with their own name. There we go. >> footballer named Osama bin Laden. Jimenez Lopez, often written simply as Osama bin Laden, very good. Uh he attracted international attention because it sounds almost identical to Osama bin Laden. Uh actually in Spanish it's even closer because V and B are pronounced the same. Uh some unusual details have been widely reported. He said he was named after Osama bin Laden. His brother is named Saddam Hussein. A Spanish spelling of Saddam Hussein. To avoid controversy his jersey typically displays only Osama rather than his full surname. >> [laughter] >> Wow. >> I mean I want to I want to meet his parents. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> I want to know what they've been reading. >> You can't just do things clearly. You can't just do things. >> your kid after the most famous terrorist of the 21st century. >> A year after 9/11 too. >> Oh [ __ ] hell, yes. [ __ ] that was done one year. >> So really hopping on the bandwagon post. >> That's buying that's buying Bitcoin while it's on a rip, isn't it? >> Jesus Christ. >> What's that story of Rory MacDonald's walkout music? >> Oh, Rory MacDonald, UFC fighter, used to walk out to some of the strangest songs. Um and people would kind of laugh as he was walking out. Like, why why does he have such a weird niche uh in music? And it was when it came out he was interviewed. Like, why are you playing out some of these super strange songs? It would mix from like classical music. It would also have Jared, look it up like the different Rory MacDonald songs. And when they interviewed him he was like, it's not me who's picking the songs, it's the UFC. Then they go to the UFC and say Rory saying you're picking the songs and it's like No, we text him before every single UFC. And when it actually got into it, they were texting his old phone number, which had been given to somebody. If you go on the Yeah, go on Reddit. So, here's the song. So, he has a violin orchestra >> Scroll down. >> by George A. Quintero, One More Road to Cross by DMX, personal favorite, Can't Touch This by MC Hammer. >> UFC 133 >> You [laughter] So, you got to think He goes from Light Work Lupe Fiasco. Not bad song. >> did? We Found Love twice IN A ROW. >> [laughter] >> UH HE CAME OUT TO SAINT Anger by Metallica twice in a row as well. He came out by 46 and 2 by Tool. That's a [ __ ] slamming. And then Got the Life by Korn. Okay. Uh but so he says the UFC chooses, the UFC says he chooses. What's the truth? >> Well, it was somebody had his old phone number. So, the UFC was texting it and this person was obviously a UFC fan that was kind of in on the joke and just absolutely went on a rampage for multiple years. What would be the worst song to walk out to for you? >> For me? >> Yeah. Or best? >> Well, when I came down the Love Left for Take Me Out, my first dating show, I wanted Jamie Jones, Hungry for the Power, because at the time I thought I was really cool cuz I just saw in the season in Ibiza and everybody did remixes of it saying Hungry for the Powder. >> Mhm. >> And I was like, oh, I'm [ __ ] sick, man. I used to go to a I was sniffing ketamine in Ibiza and that. And they The producers looked at me and said, why have you got this very low energy deep house track for the walkout? We're going to give you Example, Love Kicks Starts Again. I was like, okay, >> [laughter] >> fair enough. So, that's like as you come down and everyone's doing this, clapping above the heads. And the love kick starts again. Chris Williamson. >> Yeah. >> Do you ever think >> Single man reveal yourself. That's what it is. >> Did you get Did How did you perform? Did you get a date off Take Me Out? >> Did I get a date? >> I don't know. I don't know. You might have got blackout. >> The bloke before me did. Everyone was backstage [ __ ] themselves that they were going to get blackout. >> How did you How did you fare? >> I got on well. >> What was a deep conspiracy about Take Me Out which for the American people is a British staple dating show, the first of many dating shows for me. And um uh the biggest fear that anybody had was that all of the girls would turn their lights off. But earlier in the season, because for every every time that they don't go on a date, that's another week that they're on TV. So all of the girls were incentivized the start of the season to hit their lights so that you didn't get as and we were episode I was episode two. So I was doing it on hard mode, mate. I was doing it on hard mode, still had 11 girls to choose from at the end. >> Show me the incentives >> I'll show you the outcome. >> Yeah, the ITV producers of Take Me Out do not have not read the Almanac of Charlie Munger is my concern. >> What would you want to walk out to? >> What to take >> Take Me Out or a fight? Cuz I see them both as the same thing. >> [laughter] >> Um you've got to go. You've got You know You already know. I think you've got to go Big Big Phil. >> Which song? >> Big Phil. Um >> Dudun dudun >> I think in the in the air tonight. Yeah, um both my fighting music and my love making music. >> That 1.6 1.6 speed? >> Yeah, it's >> Well, yeah yeah, 1.6 speed depending on depending on the opponent both in the ring. >> Okay, so is it faster Is it faster for dating or faster for fighting? >> That's a great question. That's a great question. I think No, I think I think you probably want to slow it slow it down a little bit for the for the dating. 1.4. >> Is that to make it feel like you've lasted longer? >> Yes. >> Right. >> I need that. We were talking about AI and writing yesterday. [clears throat] One of the Commonwealth Short Story Prizes appears to have been awarded to an obviously AI-generated story. This is a relatively prestigious prize. The prize-winning stories all appeared in Granta magazine, and the editor's response was basically a shrug. When asked whether it was AI-generated, AI concluded that it was almost certainly not produced unaided by a human, and a computer scientist claimed that the empty metaphors that often plague the prize-winning story and that plague all AI writing as well, they come from human-written fan fiction. So, this is the source of a lot of the very strange, very clunky analogies that you see. So, for instance, the rare phrase the patience of a reptile, which appears in this allegedly AI-generated story, also occurs in a fan fiction based on the Japanese anime and manga Naruto. There's no way to be sure that the LLM sucked it up, spat it back out, but it's worth remembering that a meaningful amount of the text inside of these machines was written by people who were playing pretend with anime characters. So, the reason being, if you were to take the total amount of time played people playing football globally, and you were to learn how to play football as a robot or an AI system by watching everybody on the planet play football, there are far more people that are bad at football than good at football. Therefore, you will learn to be quite bad at football. And this is the same thing with writing. If you think about how few books that are written get published, how little writing is made for a book, and how many books that are written are actually good and go on to sell anything, I don't think that there's that much of a waiting in terms of the LLM that James Clear's Atomic Habits on Moby Dick is worth 10 million times that of an anime and manga blog. >> Mhm. >> However, by sheer numbers, the amount of bad writing outnumbers the amount of good writing. So, there's a sentence from that story, "But a belly sound as if the earth swallows a shout and holds it there." Pretty jarring. It's not really what you find in good writing. Don't worry, this might have been potentially drawn from a fan fiction webpage, The Fall of a Phoenix, where the original sentence was, "He swallows a shout of pain, breathing heavily, his whole body trembling." Another sentence, "His eyes narrowed against the glare outside and the darker glare inside him." Eyes narrowed against the glare outside sounds like unnecessarily vain and ominous in a way that's unnecessary. Uh the reason could be that it was drawn from a random horror blog, the original sentence being, "His eyes narrowed against the glare of the halogen strip lights." And speaking of the darker glare, whilst it is pretty common, it appears in another fan fiction story. So, basically, the you can't work out what's inside of an LLM's brain, which is probably for the best. But, it's entirely possible that when you prompt it to write fiction, it's not scouring through the greatest works ever put together. It's looking at, like, random fan fiction, manga, and anime websites written by somebody at 2:00 a.m. who really shouldn't have been doing it. >> Well, what makes sense there? And again, snapshot in time, 6 months, 12 months from now, this may be completely different. But, what's interesting is on a coding side of things, it's currently way more capable than the writing side. And I wonder if that's because um code itself, there's a lot it's a lot easier to come to an objective conclusion. So, thing did compile, thing didn't compile, or thing did work, thing didn't work. Button appeared, button didn't appear. >> [snorts] >> Whereas with writing, it's so much more around text, it's so much more subjective. So, it's harder to almost give the feedback loop of success or failure. But, it's interesting that you wouldn't that that argument there that you would just have the widest data set possible for writing versus having an LLM that's way more great. But, what would be interesting >> In theory, that's quite easy to do. >> So, has anybody done that? Probably. But, it's still even when I've given it great writing, it can't it can't for whatever reason repeat it. Maybe it's not going to be large enough. >> physics that it's built on top of, it's not just here is good writing. It has to understand what each word inside of that writing means. And the way that it understands what the word inside of the writing is is based on the bigger corpus that it has outside of it. So, it's a little bit like saying, I've got Usain Bolt, but he's running into a 35-mph headwind. Like, regardless of how great the talent is that you're trying to push forward, I think that you're always going to be working against this. Now, it's got to be a relatively complex but simple I'm sorry. Like, uh arduous but simple solution to be like, just weight it toward great pieces of work. >> arduous, Chris. It's simple. >> [laughter] >> Said like a true Roman senator. Question. >> Question. >> What man could get the most number of women on the planet to turn up at his house if he gave them the invite? >> That's um Philosophers have pondered this question for hundreds if not thousands of years, Christopher. So, the the real philosophical insight that's plagued the industry is which man alive could post his address right now and have the largest line. Who do you Who do you go for? >> [sighs] >> You need international appeal. >> Yeah. >> You probably need to skew a little bit older. >> Bigger time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've got to expect >> Especially with a declining population. >> Yeah, aging population. Yeah, aging population means that I think anyone under age 35 is probably going to struggle. Anyone under age 30 is really going to struggle. And think that you're going to want as a mid-50s, 60s year old woman. I don't know whether you probably don't want to be ravaged by that, but I don't think you're going to get the likelihood of you upping sticks and getting on the bus, getting on the 59 bus to go to wherever this person's address is. So, my my call for this, I think it's between Brad Pitt, Leonardo DiCaprio. I'm trying to think about who the pop star or rock star would be that would be up there. I bet somebody like a Drake would probably be able to do some damage. >> Mhm, I don't think so. >> He's done his damage. >> He has done a lot of damage. >> Yeah, I think >> But I think I I would I would I would put my money I would say I would put my money on Brad Pitt. I think it's very hard to fight >> back against Brad. >> Pitt and DiCaprio are very much the Intel or Microsoft in this moment in that I think 10 years ago I think you're correct, but I think you're going to be looking at a little bit more blue chip. I think David Beckham's probably the Apple stock here. Been around for a while, but I think Beckham still outperforms Pitt and DiCaprio cuz I think Beckham's actually more global. Cuz we've got to you've got to be looking at you've got to be looking at Africa, you've got to be looking at Southeast Asia. >> looking at Africa. Why what what was the last thing that David Beckham did that was globally recognized? >> If you turned on the World Cup recently, he's on every single advert, my friend. >> I don't think that that is enough. I don't think >> But I also think D Becks D7 still has quite a clean, beautiful image, whereas Brad Pitt doesn't. Pitt let no def- definitely not. I think less so as he's got older. And DiCaprio seems to have >> Capri's tanked his own stock prices. >> Intel, this is what I'm saying. >> Right, I understand. I understand, but I don't think I don't think that you're right about David Beckham. I I don't think that you're going to get I don't think he's going to reach out into the Middle East in the way that Brad Pitt would. I think that you get I think David Beckham's going to nail it in like East Asia. I think he's going to absolutely crush it cuz they're kind of sports crazy over there. I don't think >> You're joking me. With the Saudi League and the Qatar World Cup, I think I think D Bex is is well-known out there. And the English accent still goes a long way, my friend. >> That's I just don't think he's done anything relevant for a long time. >> Okay. We can agree to disagree. I do think >> Who's an outside favorite? >> I think Styles is very much the Nvidia of our moment, yes. >> He's the [laughter] >> Yeah, he's It may fall. The market may collapse, but he's very much leading the charge. >> Uh Timothy Chalamet's like ChatGPT or Open AI. He's currently He's currently private because he's in a committed long-term relationship. >> is as well. I It's not It's not necessarily about private or public >> David Beckham is close It's SpaceX pre-IPO. >> Yes. Yes. Very established for quite a long time. A lot of investment from variety of countries. >> Mhm. >> People really cared about his success, and then finally he's been able to cash out if he manages to break up with Victoria. >> Mhm. Fascinating philosophical question. >> This is the most important question of our time. >> 95% of people don't get enough fiber, which is why Momentous built Fiber Plus. Because hitting your daily fiber target through food alone is actually kind of hard, even harder than your last >> toilet trip. >> Fiber isn't just a digestion thing. It's the foundation of your gut health, which drives how well you absorb nutrients, how stable your energy is, and how quickly you recover. If your gut isn't dialed, everything else you're doing is working at a fraction of its potential. Fiber Plus is a three-in-one formula built to address digestion, gut barrier strength, and blood sugar stability all at once. >> That's why I plan to make my next big dump Momentous. >> Best of all, they offer a 30-day money-back guarantee, so can buy it and try it for 29 days, and if you don't love it, they'll give you your money back. Plus, they ship internationally. Right now, you can get up to 35% off your first subscription and that 30-day money-back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to livemomentous.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's l i v e m o m e n t o u s.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout. Dopamine websites are becoming a new trend in South Korea. These services let users endlessly browse food delivery menus, read reviews, fill shopping carts, and even track a courier. The only catch, you can't actually place an order. There are also virtual smoke breaks where users join anonymous chat rooms and socialize with strangers recreating the feeling of taking a break without smoking a single cigarette. The idea is simple, get the familiar dopamine hit without spending money, smoking, or giving in to other impulsive habits. >> I saw that and I think the argument they a big argument you'll see online is this behavior is happening in Asia, therefore it's going to downstream happen in the West. And I think it's a little bit of a coin toss. Sometimes Asia is ahead of us, but sometimes it's just such a different culture. So, I think it was I forgot which Facebook product manager was talking about how they'd release a new feature and they'd test it often in the Philippines. And they'd this crazy reaction and they'd go, "We have to launch this new feature immediately." And the amount of times they'll then test it on the West or anywhere else in the world and it wouldn't work. So, they actually banned doing tests or stopped doing tests for a lot of features in the Philippines because their phone usage is so different to ours. They spend so much more time on their phones than any other part of the world. >> So, it's just Why is that? >> Where Where is it like a human thing that's these people are just ahead versus where is it just a cultural thing? Have you ever Have you ever come across Montaigne's lists? >> No. >> Do you know who Montaigne is? >> He's a philosopher. >> Montaigne, yeah, so French French philosopher. Would be fascinating to hear his perspectives on the the old queue debate. But Montaigne used to have lists that he would keep of what different cultures thought were acceptable throughout history. Just so he could remind himself that this whole thing is largely made up. It's largely social contingent. So some of my like favorite from Montaigne's lists So one, where it's normal to grow out your hair on the right side of your body, but shave everything on the left. Where white teeth is deemed as unattractive, so they purposely get their teeth blacker and blacker and blacker. Where at a certain age, you're supposed to kill your own father. When you and your father hit a certain age, you say goodbye. Another one of Montaigne's lists are when at a funeral, you're supposed to chop up the dead, grind them to a pulp, pour it into wine, and then drink them on the day of the funeral. And the final one, one for you actually, Christopher, cuz I'm sure you've attended many events like this, which is certain cultures, for their weddings, the success of a wedding was judged by how many of the groom's friends could sleep with the bride. Which I know is actually quite common in in the northeast of England. But that's only if they're family. So Montaigne kept these lists to himself like more and more and more and more examples like that just to hold a mirror up to himself and the times that he's in. >> So he's collecting weird cultures, cultures that we would find strange and that their norms are different to ours in an attempt to try and highlight, "Hey, whatever it is that you think is normal is just consensus because of where you are, and if you were to be somewhere else, your consensus would be totally different." >> Yes. Do you want I tell you what, do you want a list of I I was thinking, "Okay, let's say Montaigne came back today. I was writing this chapter recently. So, let's say Montaigne came back today and was like, "Well, what's normal today?" So, normal consumes 17 teaspoons of sugar per day. Normal has a 104,755 dollars in debt. Normal is 30 pounds overweight. Ozempic pending. Normal averages less than 4,000 steps per day. Normal spends 90,000 hours of their life at work disengaged. Normal stays indoors for 22.3 hours per day. Normal spends more time on the toilet than exercising. Normal hasn't finished a book in the last 12 months. Normal experiences under 10 minutes per day in silence. Normal will spend 20 years of their life watching TV or scrolling social media. >> Under 10 minutes a day in in silence. >> Mhm. >> And more time on the toilet than it exercising. >> Averages. But then, there's always a criticism around averages that you end up netting it out. But when you begin to look at Oh, is this is just what's accepted today and maybe tomorrow weddings will be back that you like to attend. >> In the 1830s in Massachusetts, beards were so uncommon and strange that a man named Joseph Parker was mocked and shunned for wearing one. Assailants tried to forcibly shave him, but he fought them off with a knife and was imprisoned for assault. He refused to pay his fine or court fees, so he remained in prison for over a year. And this at least gave him the excuse to create an all-time classic tombstone. >> Oh, wow. >> The right to a full beard is honored by the grave of a man who was attacked in jail due to due to his facial hair. >> Wow. >> Talk about norms, mate. >> That's a great beard. On the the one of the things that everybody kind of has discussed in the marketing space for ages is that live streaming will become normal in the West because it's normal in the East. But I'm yet to see like live shopping where people sit there for hours and hours per day. I'm yet to see that fully take off. >> Well, it depends what you mean cuz live streaming kick, Twitch, obviously that's >> Live streaming, yes. But actual live shopping, sorry. >> Live shopping, different. Um IRL streaming feels I don't know whether they've got that in I bet they don't have that in Asia. You know the IRL stuff where people are walking about, sometimes causing nuisance, and doing predator stings, and I imagine that they don't because a good bit of Asia feels like it's got honor culture where you don't want to disrupt. I mean, you've seen Japanese subways, the Japanese tube, and I've been on the phone to a friend who lives in Japan, and he'll warn me while he's on the side of the uh subway uh waiting at the terminal, and then the he'll tell me, "Look, I'm just about to get on." And he won't say anything. He won't respond to me on the phone. He won't even whisper. So, I'll be talking to him for 3 minutes without him being able to respond. And then he'll get off and he'll talk back to me. That's how And he's not native Irish. And that's how much reverence people have just complete silence. So, they're playing your drill rap on the back of the bus. Not that. Not even whispering. Not even talking to each other. >> Wow. >> That crazy? Do you know that? >> Wow. I didn't know that. It's interesting how much of who you think you are is just postcode. >> Oh, it's so much of it's ecology, right? I mean, and that's the reason why changing your environment has such a big impact on your life. If you both me and you changed gyms over the last 6 months, and that made a massive impact. It just a a different routine didn't change me as a person but it changed the way that my day was shaped but oh actually my routine is largely built around some of the other things that I already do and if I change where I go and do them that alters maybe having the office having the office in the studio that's made a massive difference as well. So what do you think from stuff that's happened in Asia that has prophetically come across to America? Ooh. A little boo-boos Asian? They look like they are. What's a little boo-boo? It's these little stuffed animals. They were it was the Dubai chocolate of the stuffed animal world and people were queuing up for ages to get a keyring and Yeah. And collect those. It's funny how we're being in the West we talk about Asia the same way I always find it absurd when somebody talks about Europe. Obviously Brexit means Brexit so we're no longer in Europe. But the [snorts] the idea that Asia is this place or Africa This planet is absolutely massive. >> Yes. And the >> I'm going to Europe. What the [ __ ] does that mean? But because we're so far away we don't think of Asia as being anything different than just one big >> uh hegemon. And there seems to be a recurring memetic trend throughout geography which is you think two places because they're next door neighbor are very similar to one another or get home with one another but historically it's the opposite. I laugh whenever I interact with the French that we are >> 23 miles away. >> So different. So fundamentally different. I could it's actually hard to find a culture uh as different to Britain in Europe I would say than the French. >> Mhm. >> And we're next door neighbors. >> Yeah we are but I mean speaking as somebody that's dressed as an ex-Italian essentially you would you would know. >> [laughter] >> You would know. You would understand. Yeah I uh I don't know about the Asian to I definitely know that there's a lot of stuff that goes on over there that doesn't happen over here. You can buy used period pants in vending machines. I saw Craig Jones do this on a vlog. Some ladies had menstruated through her pants and then you can buy them in a little It comes in a little Pokéball like that and it's in a specially sealed bag inside of a Pokéball. So. >> I don't think that's taking off in the West. >> anytime soon. Yeah, there are certain areas that are resisting globalization. It's kind of impressive. California's gay certification. California is pressuring public utilities to award $633 million in special contracts to LGBT owned firms. To qualify, residents must go through the state's official gay certification program and face up to a year in jail if they're not gay enough. By 2022, the California Public Utilities Commission established a goal for utility companies with annual revenues exceeding $25 million to buy things from state-certified LGBT businesses. 0.5% of procurement in 2021, 1% in 2023, 1.5% in 2024 and beyond. If large CPUC regulated utilities meet these goals in 2024, they would have sent $633 million to LGBT owned firms. The scheme raises an obvious question. How does a business qualify as officially gay? Paperwork. Supplier Clearinghouse, a group that certifies firms for the CPUC program, features a list of qualifications linked on its website. Applicants can secure certification by providing a letter from an LGBT organization attesting to their sexual preferences, proof that a newspaper identified them as LGBT, or three letters from personal contacts written on company letterhead attesting to their homosexual orientation. Corporate officials who falsely represent their business as gay face up to a year in county jail. Supply Clearinghouse also accepts gay certification letters from the National LGBTQ plus and allied set Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber has its own list of accepted documents including human resources complaints or police records claiming LGBT discrimination. As it states on its website, "Certification is a journey, not a destination." Wow. Think you'd be able to pull off getting California's gay certification to receive $633 million? What >> What So, what percentage do you need to be gay? >> Yes. >> You need to be gay. You don't It's not a percent. >> So, it's not a recruitment percentage. >> No. >> So, oh, okay. >> No. >> So, you have to hit if you have a certain level that you get the funding. >> Yep. Yep. Exactly. But, you know, also need to be gay to unlock it. >> Hmm. >> So, what If you're not gay, you don't get it. And if you're not big enough, you don't get it. But, if you're big enough, they need to be finding sufficiently diverse So, these companies actually one of the best ways to do this would be to hire This is an incentive to hire C-suite executives that are gay. >> Damn. >> It would unlock an awful lot of CPUC funding in California. >> Damn. >> And you face a year in county jail. >> That's That's real That's real founder mode right there. Like, if you're willing to >> take it up the ass. >> Yeah. To Yeah. >> Yeah. If you're going to power bottom your way to the top. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> You either get [ __ ] by investors or get [ __ ] by someone [snorts] else. >> Craig. >> Well, look, it's going to It's It's It's I don't know, man. The The whole >> Is that real? Is that all real? That's real. >> Well, that's literally that's a brand I'm not going to lie to you. >> I know. I know. >> Why would I lie to you? Where did I get this from? cityjournal.com. There it is. Inside California's gay certification program. The state is pressuring utilities to award $633 million in contracts to LGBT businesses. Interesting. The tip of the spear for LGBT diversity is energy and utilities. >> Hmm. >> Contracts [snorts] for state certified gay-owned businesses. You could arbitrage the hell out of this. You know, when people say, "How much would it How much would you have to pay to be gay?" If the number is less than $633 million, you're quids in. >> Damn. >> What else? What else you got? You got some stuff? Did you bring anything from home? >> Yeah, go on. Do I have some stuff? As always, um Oh. >> My bag of cash is getting in the way. In other news, Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce companies in the US. They are the driving force behind Gymshark and Skims and Alo and Newtonic, which is why I partnered with them because when it comes to converting browsers into buyers, they are best in class. Their checkout is 36% better, on average, compared to other leading commerce platforms. And with Shop Pay, you can boost conversions up to 50%. Basically, you didn't get into business to learn how to code or build a website or deal with the inventory stuff [ __ ] on the back end. You just want to get down to creating and promoting an awesome product. And Shopify takes all of the mess off your hands and allows you to focus on the job you actually came here to do, designing and selling the thing that you love. So, upgrade your business and get the same checkout that we use with Newtonic with Shopify. Right now, you can sign up for a $1 per month trial period by going to the link in the description below or heading to shopify.com/modernwisdom, all lowercase. That's shopify.com/modernwisdom. >> Story of a Spanish chicken farmer called Juan Pujol. So, it's 1941. Start of World War I and he's essentially a failure his entire life. So, he's been a chicken farmer, a a manager of a one-star hotel, um before uh bankruptcy. And he's after a new job with a tremendous CV. So, he's walking along the streets of Madrid, takes a right, goes into the British Embassy, and says, "I want a job at MI5 to help out and spy on the Nazis." And MI5 or the embassy sort of say, "Okay, how about you put that in writing and we'll come back to you." Which is the British way of saying, "Get the [ __ ] out." So, he leaves the building, comes back, walks across, goes into the embassy, says, "I want a job with MI5." They ask him to leave. Tries again. He just like walks across the street and turns around. No, these are multiple like future events. So, he keeps coming back. Fourth time, he's walking along and he decides he walks up the steps, but this time he goes into the German embassy. And he goes, "I hate the Brits. I want a job for the Nazis to spy on Britain." And the Nazis are eyeing him up and he talks about his love for the Führer, the love um for the Third Reich and how much he hates his new inspired hatred for Great Britain. And the Nazis end up training him up, giving him little tasks and he keeps proving himself, >> [snorts] >> learns how invisible ink works, um ends up recruiting multiple agents inside of Great Britain. So, he builds his way up and then he walks back street of Madrid, goes to the British embassy and says, "I now want a job at MI5 because I'm one of the most valuable spies for the Nazis." So, he got rejected, rejected, rejected and was like, "Okay, I'll take matters into my own hands." So, he then becomes the most valuable spy for Britain during World War II. He builds up a network of 27 sub agents inside of Britain that the Nazis believe are true, but it's all his own imagination. All these different agents that he would create stories from that they were doing. So much so, when he arrived, the MI5 called him Garbo because Garbo at the time was the most famous actress in the world. >> Greta Garbo? >> Yes, so named after for his acting skills. So, Juan Pujol, the Spanish chicken farmer, the most important moment in World War II was D-Day. So, as D-Day was happening, Juan gave so much fake information. He convinced them that D-Day was going to happen in Calais. So, Hitler and Himmler were getting these reports from Juan. They thought the war was going to happen in Calais, so they sent some of their most important armies to Calais. Then, the uh D-Day happens. And Juan was so convincing, even with his fake reports, that Hitler gave him um the Iron Cross. So, he's the only agent to get both an Iron Cross from Hitler and an MBE from >> No way. >> Yeah. And do you know what's tragic though? So, they say that in when it comes to D-Day, the most important day of World War II, the three most important people were Eisenhower, who looked after the US, um I think Montgomery, who looked after the Great Britain, and Juan Pujol, the Spanish chicken farmer. Those are the three most important people in D-Day in terms of the impact. But this guy who gets these double awards ends up dying in 1949 Mozambique to malaria. And up in the 1980s, three of the agents that worked with him in MI5 uh sat at a bar. So, they're all in their like late 80s now, and they're talking about the war. They're in this former little intelligence pub, and they're chatting about the war, and having a few drinks, and they have this kind of confused look on their faces. This old guy is walking towards them. And they get more and more confused with their face. And then this 80-year-old man who's a MI5 spy breaks down in tears crying. And they go, "It can't be. You're supposed to be dead." So, his final last act was to fake his own death in 1949, and he lived in a bookstore in Venezuela. So, the not So, the Nazis would never know where he was. >> That's insane. >> Spanish chicken farmer. >> Was he really worried about Nazi retribution in 1949? >> Yes. >> Were the Nazis still going around and chasing people in the >> Ironically, even though he's in Venezuela, there was a lot of Nazis in South America. >> but if he'd not gone to [ __ ] Venezuela, he supposedly caught malaria in Africa. >> There's still a lot of >> Uh Mozambique is I think West Africa. >> Right. Okay. >> But in 1949 or even onwards, there was First off, we're viewing history through hindsight. At the time, there was still millions of Germans that served for the Nazis that were still alive. So, yeah, there was lots of Nazis afterwards. >> Mhm. And they would wanted retribution for people that had I did I I I guess I don't know why. >> The most impactful man during D-Day who was a double agent that gave them all this false information, if there's one person they're going to try and kill, >> Yeah, that's true. I I guess I don't know what happened in Germany after they lost. I don't know how quickly everybody capitulated. Well, there was this >> I was listening to Finn versus History, and they was talking about how >> Friend of the show. >> in uh when after the Nazis commit the Holocaust, I think they were banned for the World Cup or for like international games for 4 years. But when Liverpool had the incident in Juventus where uh loads of fans died, they were banned for 6 years. It's like it's not Doesn't scale Doesn't scale accordingly. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's uh I mean, unbelievable amount of agency. I I suppose to be a guy that wants a job so badly that you take the opposite job to get the first job. It's just as well that he really did want to work for MI5, cuz if he didn't, he would have just been a great asset to the Nazis. >> But it's having that that level of theory of mind of okay, I've been rejected from something. What does this person want that would make me completely invaluable? Cuz I think there's this kind of myth that oh, if you've been rejected, just keep going and they're idiots versus can you get inside of their head and think how they think. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think um is it time to push or is it time to pivot is kind of the age-old question, but he didn't >> both. >> Mhm. >> Right, he pivoted into a new one. All right, so that's your story time. It's a new segment a new segment on our episode story time. My story time. Shavarsh Karapetyan. Are you familiar with Shavarsh Karapetyan? >> No. >> Okay, so uh 1976 in uh Yerevan and there's a trolley bus carrying around about 90 passengers. We don't know what happened. Uh some people say that the driver of the bus had a heart attack. Some people say that he was having an altercation with a a passenger on board. Whatever happened, crashed into a reservoir. >> Huh. >> Yerevan. The bus sank roughly 10 m or 30 ft to the bottom. Freezing, murky water. There was a 23-year-old man who's training with his brother nearby, Shavarsh Karapetyan. And uh without giving it much thought, jumps into the water and ordered his brother to help him from the shore. He said it was scary at first. It was so loud as if a bomb went off. I almost drowned several times. I could imagine the agony of those 92 people and I knew how they would die. The thing was, Karapetyan wasn't an ordinary bystander. He was a 17-time world champion and 11-time world record holder in fin swimming. >> Huh. >> He was one of the best underwater swimmers on Earth. Immediately dives into the water to help. Visibility is basically zero cuz the reservoir is full of mud and sewage and debris as well. Obviously, the bus has gone in, so it's kicked up all of this silt. Basically, impossible to see. So, he swims down into the dark, locates the bus. He called it a traveling coffin for all of these 92 people. He kicks the rear window in underwater to get inside. Dives down, dive after dive, holds his breath, finds trapped passenger, drags him back to the surface, hands them to the rescuers and his brother in a rowboat, goes straight back down again. Reportedly made dozens of dives over around about 20 minutes and physically pulled out about 37 people. 20 of them survived. During one dive, he accidentally grabbed a leather seat cushion instead of a passenger cuz his visibility was so poor. You know, it'd be one of these old-school buses that would have had movable cushions. He grabbed this this leather cushion and brought it up thinking it was maybe a small human. He later said that this one decision haunted him for years because he believed someone may have died while he carried up the cushion instead. Karapetyan was hospitalized along with the victims of the accident because he'd lacerated all of his legs, all of his body from going through the broken glass, from breaking the glass himself. Uh septic fever, double-sided pneumonia, and nervous prostration had doctors fighting for his life for over a month. When he was finally discharged, Shavarsh went back to practice, but swimming underwater echoed painfully in his in in his lungs. But, he wouldn't give up without having one final medal. So, during the next championship, he swam in a haze. Still wasn't in any way back to full capacity. His brother, Kamol, ran along the side of the pool ready to jump in in case he suddenly lost consciousness. But, he came in first and set another world record without even realizing that he'd done it at the time. He was so delirious. But, the rescue that he'd done of the bus had destroyed his athletic career. Broken glass shredded his legs. Polluted water had caused severe pneumonia and sepsis he couldn't recover from. He spent all of those weeks plus then months critically ill and then recovering. Soviet authorities initially downplayed the story, so it remained relatively unknown for years. And today, the rescue is considered one of the greatest acts of civilian heroism ever recorded. >> Jesus Christ. >> That's a >> thick Russian. >> Carpathian. Yeah, yeah, like a serious Russian guy. That's him there in just a pair of pants. And everybody else is trying to pull it up. >> Wow. >> In hindsight. >> Wow. >> There's a an award. Jared, ask ask a bold friend. Uh what's the name of the award that's given to people who risk their lives for strangers? >> The award you're likely thinking of is the Carnegie Medal. It's given to civilians who risk their lives to save or attempt to save strangers. >> Is there anything interesting about the demographics of the people who've been given that award? >> There are some patterns worth noting. The Carnegie Hero Fund, which awards the medal, has found that recipients come from all walks of life. Age, gender, and background vary widely. >> interesting. >> Historically, men have been the majority of recipients, but women have also been recognized. >> men How many men won? >> The Carnegie Hero Fund has awarded thousands of people since its inception in 1904. >> [ __ ] what? >> Historically, the majority have been men. >> What's the percentage of men that have won the Carnegie Award? >> [laughter] >> The Carnegie Hero Fund reports that historically about 90% of recipients have been >> [laughter] >> All right, shut up. I I just I Whatever happened in 2020 continues to carry over now. Do you know what I mean? Like California thinks that the most important thing to do with its utilities is not give people cheap and reliable energy, but to make sure that the diversity of the sexuality of the people who own the companies is important. And you, [ __ ] 5.5. Need to have a chat with someone about you. Anyway, uh that Carpathian I I I love that story. I think it's [ __ ] awesome. And um What What is the kind of kicker is the fact that you know that he was he made such a personal sacrifice, but then also was ravaged by the fact that he picked up a [ __ ] cushion having gone down 37 times. >> Mhm. >> And one time he made a mistake in pitch blackness when he couldn't see. Then what's the likelihood that the guy that's running on the side of the road with his brother like he's got his pants on. He's got the He's got the out He's the the number one fin swimmer, deep sea swimmer in the world, 17 times, 11 world records. >> Tragic. >> Yeah. >> Tragic. >> Yeah. >> If you're trying to go from Joey Chestnut to Joey Swoll, the RP Strength app is the best place to start. I've been in the gym for two decades and it wasn't until this last year that I had some of the best training sessions of my life and RP was a massive part of that. Actual scientist built this thing around the obsession to beat up their high school bullies and provide the most science-backed effective path to maximizing muscle gain. It tells you your exercises, how many sets, reps, the weights, everything. So, all you have to do is show up and lift. The RP Strength app could wipe your ass for you. Probably would. It adjusts automatically every week based on how you're actually progressing. For me, following a proper evidence-based plan has made a massive difference and if you're serious about your training, it'll do the same for you. Right now, you can follow the exact same training plan that I use and get up to $50 off the RP Hypertrophy app by going to the link in the description below heading to rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout. >> Yeah, it's it's interesting how often that is the case where you'll have these acts of great heroism that don't have 100% success rate and then the individual spends so much time looping on that. >> Yeah, that's the that's survivor guilt, I suppose, right? >> I've known some people who've done some incredible things like in the police or firework, for example, and it's the same thing. They don't ruminate on the the heroism, it's the It's the one >> mistakes that they made. Yeah, the people they could have saved. I wonder what that's for. I guess that adaptively it's trying to get you to focus on this is something prosocial that you could have done if you'd been more prepared, more skillful, um therefore in future you need to you need to adapt your your approach so that this doesn't happen again. Maybe that's the reason for survivor guilt. Actually, Jared, just type it in chat GPT. What is the reason What is the adaptive reason for survivor guilt? Adaptive explanation for survivor guilt. Cuz I the only thing that I can think of is that it's supposed to try and guide your future behavior. So that Well, I mean, [ __ ] Bluetooth came up as a thousand year old Norse god or something like that. So [ __ ] knows if we're going to find out. What is the adaptive explanation? From an evolutionary or adaptive perspective, survivor guilt can be understood as a byproduct of mechanism to help humans maintain social bonds, cooperation, and group cohesion. Okay, so my hypothesis is looking good so far. Basic idea is that in ancestral environments, humans survive and reproduce largely through belonging to a group. When one person benefited while others suffered, there are often social consequences. So the inverse of that, okay. Maintaining group cohesion. If you survived a dangerous event while close allies did not, feeling distress rather than indifference signals Oh, that's cool. So because if something bad happens and you were one of the few that survived, if you show that you feel distress as opposed to indifference, it reinforces to everybody else that you weren't selfish and an [ __ ] that you actually regret the fact that they died and that you didn't. I am still a part of the group. I didn't take it all for myself. I didn't just swim out the back of the bus myself. I really did try. Um reciprocal altruism and fairness mechanisms. They've got strong intuitions. So when we're receiving an unexpected benefit relative to others even when we did nothing wrong. Our minds may interpret the situation as a violation of fairness expectations. Survivor guilt may arise from the same psychological machinery machinery that makes people pretty uncomfortable receiving disproportionate rewards. Okay. Motivation to help survivors. Yeah. Okay. So it encourages caring for brief families, supporting injured group members. Counterfactual learning. Humans are unusually prone to imagining alternative outcomes. The counterfactual helps us learn from near misses in dangerous situations. Dude, don't [ __ ] test me on evolutionary theory. Okay. Don't test the Hamburglar on evolutionary theory. My intuitions are strong. >> [laughter] >> Costly signal of commitment as well. Grief and function. You can't fake it. That's an interesting one. So that's the the reason um why would it be the case that when you're sad or distressed or overwhelmed with um negative emotion that the same thing your eyes do to make sure that your eyes stay lubricated would go into overdrive. Uh why do we cry? Like what's the reason for crying? And one of the uh adaptive explanations for this, which is pretty fascinating, is it's such a costly signal to do because the most important sense you have is your eyes. And if you're prepared to fill them with water to say how much I've been hurt or how much I'm suffering, you're in an unbelievably vulnerable position. You can't fight. You can't see. You can't defend yourself. Tears are coming out and you can't fully operate. This is how much I'm in pain. I mean so much pain that I'm essentially exposing my neck to you. >> So how do you then factor in tears of joy? Why do we cry out of joy? >> I did ask this question. So it could be a spandrel, which is just a crossover between the two, but it could just be the same thing. It could be a very costly signal. Hey, look at how much I love this thing that's happening. I am here. Collective effervescence. Me and the group, we are one. I experience this thing with you, too. And I do think when it comes to sort of emotions, um sadness, like peak joy, joyful experiences, beautiful experiences, and sad or sort of dreadful experiences, they kind of have this same like part of the pitch of of the the chord that they play is kind of similar, right? It's like an outside of the body, at least when I when I experience stuff that's like really intense, whether it's good or bad. I always feel it's sort of across the top of my shoulders and my traps and like sort of everything feels like it lifts up a little bit if I'm being delivered bad news by somebody or if there's something that's really beautiful happening, it always feels like I'm sort of being lifted a bit. So there there seems to be similarities, a resonance between those two. Um those two those two visuals Jared, if you could pull them up, there's one of how emotion feels in the body. I don't know if you've seen this one where it's like all the heat maps. And there's also Yeah, there's also the topography of tears. How different types of tears look under a microscope. And they're slightly different. Is this artist Yeah, this artist produced it where so top left. So here is yeah, how emotions at least feel in the body. Which kind of makes sense. mapping emotions so is that self report? this is more self report of how it how it feels. Okay, so I haven't gone any deeper into it. Angus seems pretty right. So Angus sort of above the like upper chest, arms and hands a lot, lower face a lot and head. And if you start with neutral on the right, so you kind of see okay, this is neutral. And then you compare that to all the different ones. Surprise is definitely a lot in the head, that's cool. Sadness is kind of in the middle of the chest. Happiness sort of everywhere. Disgust definitely in the stomach. So disgust disgust and anxiety both in the stomach the most, that would make sense, cuz disgust is a pathogen rejection. >> Mhm. >> Uh fear, middle of the chest. I think that seems quite right. Interesting that happiness is basically just tuned down love. Depression's cool. The depression, it says here it's just sort of a low energy state or on your extremities as opposed to anxiety. And I would agree with that. I think anxiety is a much more active version of depression. Contempt ex- like existing exclusively in the head. >> Mhm. >> Is pretty cool. Pride, so the swelling in the chest makes sense. Shame, the cheeks. That's people get embarrassed. And envy, sort of little bit of head and some heart. That's actually Would you disagree with any of those? >> I think I think it feels it feels accurate as trying to be neutral right now. Uh could you search topography of tears, please, Jared? This was done by I think an artist that made this. >> Uh go to that video that Instagram video. Let's just see what this what this lady's got to say. Third one. Click and open. >> that your tears look different underneath a microscope depending on the emotion that you're experiencing. This project was called the topography of tears by Rosalind Fisher. She's a photographer and what they did is they looked at tears underneath a microscope and you will see that depending on what these participants were experiencing, their tears look different. This is tears of laughter versus tears of change, tears of grief versus tears from cutting onions. This is tears when someone is experiencing a moment of catharsis, whereas someone is experiencing a moment of change. >> a therapist and I often show this to my clients because I think it gives a really good demonstration that crying is actually really important at times to release certain things from our body. And being able to see that our tears actually look different depending on what we're experiencing, I think really demonstrates that really well. Did you know >> Insane. That's cool. I want to know what the [ __ ] it. Just ask Jared. Ask ChatGPT from the topography of tears study what are the differences in the structure of tears or why are they there? Cuz I want to know what What is inside of the tear that's different? Is it more salt content? Is it Like what How much shit's in tears? Like I guess maybe you could have you could I don't know. Is cortisol in the blood that leaks into the tears? But surely tears are kind of like sperm produced in advance and then released. Uh there are three main categories. Basal tears, constantly produced to lubricate the eyes. Reflex tears, produced in response to irritants like onions. And emotional tears. Key biochemical difference, here we go. Is that emotional tears contain higher concentrations of certain proteins and hormones including prolactin, adreno- corticotropic hormone, stress-related hormone, leucine cephalin, a natural pain-relieving peptide. Differences in minerals such as potassium and manganese. When tear dries on a slide, these dissolved substances crystallize into different patterns. Wow, there isn't a simple one-to-one mapping of grief. So grief always looks like X and joy always looks like Y. The patterns vary considerably even within the same emotional category. The amount of ratios of protein, salts, hormones, and other biochemical I didn't realize that you had that much. Obviously, you can cry for different reasons. If I start cutting an onion in front of you or if you're in pain or if you're feeling something or if you're just lubricating your eyes. Testosterone tears as well. >> The high The higher T that you have, the the completely different >> [laughter] >> Greg Plavaki's tears from Bloomer actually a protein shake. >> [laughter] >> For the people that don't know, Greg Plavaki has got 2,000 ng per deciliter of testosterone. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, Greg Plavaki's tears. That's in this bag. It's not money. It's just Greg's next testosterone. >> You pull up Greg's tears, they just [ __ ] drain. >> They've got they've vascular tears. Uh yeah. Yeah, it's uh The emotions thing's been interesting. Uh trying to navigate this over the last 18 months or so. I still think kind of interested in what the the conversation around men showing emotions is. Obviously, I've talked about it a lot. Like everyone's talked about it a lot. But uh one of the interesting wrinkles that I learned about was I don't think that men are particularly good at receiving other men's emotions. Like we often talk about guys need to open up more. Look at all of the people that are taking their own lives. Whatever it is. However many men per minute or men per day are doing this. Uh you need to open up. But a lot of the time if a guy does that on the internet, it's not just women that are unaccommodating to a guy that's maybe crying or feeling bad or seeming a little weak. Like guys, I would guess on average, are actually more discarding. Men are less accommodating of other men's sad emotions than women are. >> Mhm. >> And a lot of the time these would be the same men that would say something to the effect of, "Wow, men's mental health's in a in a state. Like nobody really cares that much." You go, "Okay, so which one is it?" Because if you're not prepared to hold your boy like while he's going through a hard time, you don't also really get to say, "We need to talk about men's mental health more." You need to put where your like your emotions where your mouth is, so to speak. >> Mhm. My natural thought, at least from my experience, is I don't expect friends to be these pure mixed martial artists that have everything across the board. So, I know if let's say for example, I want to break down in tears, there's certain people who I will who I'd speak to. And then there's other friends where if I you know what I mean want to [ __ ] pull it together, I'll speak to them. So this like having a little bit of more of a decentralized on chain friend base. I just I just think Yeah, I think expecting the the person who helps you to pull it together to then also be the person that's perfect with your emotions. It's hard to have that. >> I agree, but if it's the person who uh is saying we need to have better resources for men's mental health, but they're also not being accommodating that just seems like a kind of hypocrisy to me. And this is from Man of Good, Tom Golden's thing. And um it makes sense because what you basically have as a man like I think that it takes a lot of work for guys to get over that sort of visceral ick of other men's sad emotions. Uh this is a price that's maybe not seen by women or it's also hidden by men, but if there's a guy who's able to sit in like Charlie Hooper for instance or Connor Beaton or Joe Hudson or Dr. K. Uh these are people that are trained professionally to be able to do this obviously. The fact that they can sit they have had to get over a lot of that programming because your programming as a man is if I'm around another guy who doesn't seem to be able to hold it together emotionally, he's an unreliable ally. How do I know that when we go on our next hunt or when the tribe from the next valley comes and tries to attack us that he's actually going to be able to hold it together. How do I not know that he's going to break down in tears. This is the same reason This is spicy one. I need to put a ex-second [ __ ] pair of glasses on for this. William Costello told me that most homophobia in men isn't homophobia, it's femophobia. So we're actually the disgust mechanism that gets turned on or the aversion that some men have to seeing gay men isn't necessarily about the gayness, it's about the femininity that is being presented by a man. And that's the same mechanism that unreliable ally if this guy doesn't seem to be showing the typical masculine uh uh sort of control, conquer, aggression, tense toes forwards energy that I expect from other guys, what happens when there is some sort of altercation or issue in future that we need to to step in on? So, yeah, femophobia homophobia is like kind of interesting. >> I immediately think of who's the most masculine gay man in the world who then breaks that who creates a a paradox. >> Tell me, who's the most masculine gay man that you know? >> I don't know. I'm usually multiple drinks deep at the time. >> That is a [ __ ] great question. A lot of the tech bro people >> I I I Would you look at Peter Thiel and guess gay? >> I don't think I'd look at him and guess gay. >> He was in the closet for a long time until Gawker. >> Yeah. Yeah, with the Hulk Hogan thing. By the way, uh if you need a new listen on Audible, of a very old relatively old book, Ryan Holiday's book Conspiracy. Guy that's written a lot about stoicism. Books on stoicism are good. This one's his best one by distance. So [ __ ] good. Can you ever You tell me you've read it. >> A while ago. >> It's [ __ ] amazing. It's so fantastic. >> What's the plot? It's around Hulk Hogan? >> So, um Peter Thiel gets ousted by uh Gawker. I think it's Gawker's subsidiary company. I can't remember what it's called. Um that was reporting on Silicon Valley and uh I swear the headline was something like Peter Thiel's gay as [ __ ] people. And uh at this point, he still wasn't out about the fact that he is. And he held onto this for maybe five or years, and he's building this case behind the scenes, and he recruits this guy called Mr. A. Mr. A was this operator that came to him who was just going to be able legal expert Machiavellian conniving sort of guy, and they start to look for ways to take down this company, and then the Hulk Hogan sex tape happens. And during the trial for the Hulk Hogan sex tape, it turns out that Terry Bollea, Hulk Hogan's just got like infinity money. He's got the best lawyers. He's got he just can drive this thing into the ground to keep on taking Gawker down. It turns out that Peter Thiel uses the Hulk Hogan sex tape as a way to get back at the organization and reporters that outed him as gay like nearly 10 years ago by the time that this thing happens. And revenge is a dish best served cold is no better epitomized by any of the story than the decade of just sitting on it and seething and having, you know, this huge secret that you've kept as a very public person who's early into Facebook and supporting like conservative candidates and Yeah. It's widely discussed the evil nature of social media or the ills of social media that exist today. Um a lot of people hearken back to this previous long-gone era. Where you're from? But the where I am from. No, not not quite there just yet. But the golden the the thing people forget about the golden era that they're hearkening back to is the [ __ ] We always forget the [ __ ] And even the journalist standards that used to exist, the amount of journalists, particularly British press, that would pay people to sleep with people, then report the stories. This was a regular thing in journalism in the UK. Even numerous football players, athletes, they'd have to be constantly wary of does this person actually like me or has uh a well-known British publication who I shall not name because they're still going is paying or they may pay somebody to approach me. Um is using it as a story. That was a thing. That was why That was common >> Honey pot type scenario. >> Should be a crime. >> And that was Was that Is that legal? Was that legal? >> I I don't know. But guess what's the difference between a kiss and tell and pay and a pay and kiss and tell? Like the order of the money is the only thing that's different here. >> Yeah. >> Depends on the invoice technically that's [laughter] cleared. >> Always comes down to finance. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it depends if you've got a negative cash cash flow [laughter] conversion cycle. >> Do you want to explain why you were so obsessed with Jim Shark's negative cash flow conversion cycle? >> No, no, no, no, no. Um First off, we we we we >> Don't defend yourself. >> No, no, no, no, no. >> Stop defending yourself. >> So, for people who want to know what a cash flow conversion cycle is, which is approximately about 1% of people listening, I'll get through it fast. Essentially, a cash flow conversion cycle is when you get the money. So, let's say for example, Chris is running Neat Tonic. He'll pay a manufacturer to make this beautiful drink. Then, um he will obviously sell it to potentially supermarkets, big stores around the UK. There's a crunch period of well, how much credit can I get with manufacturers and then how much credit can I get with the supermarkets? Cuz if you if you have to pay your manufacturers today for stock that'll arrive in 3 months, and then the supermarket doesn't pay you for 3 months, that's what's that's a I think a positive cash flow conversion cycle. So, a negative cash flow conversion cycle is when you get the um you almost have a delayed for the manufacturers and then you can sell right away, which is a lot of what e-commerce companies do. So, I was once at a bar in Manchester talking to my friend about negative cash flow conversion cycles, and we saw these like repelling any woman within a 5-m radius. No, no, no, no. We saw We saw this group of girls like look over and like say hello. And I had a girlfriend at the time, so I wasn't wasn't going to do anything, but I just started laughing at the thought of if only they could hear, they would be repulsed. >> Well, we've done that. We Was it uh at Summer of Loud Festival last year in uh the amphitheater Georgia amphitheater here in Austin, and we were backstage and we got all the cool passes and there were all of these like cool metal chicks walking around. And then a couple came over and sat down next to us. What the [ __ ] were we talking about? I swear it was something like this. There was some debate that we were having, and these girls sat down from a distance. And we had a couple of our kind of like super chatty mates with us. Keegan was with us, right? Who's essentially like proper Roman Adonis. It's not you, love. The Chad's Chad. Yeah, he's the Chad's Chad. And these women come over and obviously look thinking, "Oh, what kind of they What are they going to be talking about? It's going to be so cool and sexy." And they came over and they were talking about how we all come from a conversion rate optimization background. [laughter] And the blended N NCPA of our Facebook Ads Manager could be doing with a little bit of improvement. Well, tell me how many you're split testing on the back end. It's interesting. I'm not sure if Opus 5.5 is actually going to be as good as people expect. And they just slowly over time got this look of It's probably It wasn't boredom. It was closer to disgust. It was like watching somebody desecrate a beautiful temple. Cuz what they saw was this amazing potential in Keegan, this beautiful man, but the way that he was handling himself and what he was talking about >> The biggest takeaway I always get whenever I'm in a a friend's birthday or a bachelor party, uh there'll be a moment where I'll just start chuckling to myself at the Often it will be somebody might have a girlfriend. Like one of the guys in the They'll have like a new relationship where she's been like really wary about him going to this birthday party or bachelor party. Meanwhile, it's me in a a 1-hour debate at dinner talking about whether Ruud van Nistelrooy was a better footballer than Thierry Henry. Like that's what they don't see. Or like Jim Jim Shaw's negative cash flow conversion cycle. I think if a lot of guys' girlfriends or wives could see that they have this imagination that there's going to be all this chaos and these girls that are coming over and the strip club. Meanwhile, it's usually a Google Sheet or Excel formulas. >> It's It's It's a trying to track down that guy that bought the cigars and opened up the Strait of Hormuz by sneaking himself in into the middle of Iran. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I but I wonder if it might be inverse. It might be the fact that the guys that you don't think are getting up to naughty [ __ ] while they're away probably are. >> Yes. And the guys that you don't think >> are getting up the guys that you think are getting up to it aren't. They're the ones that talking about how they come from a conversion rate optimization background. Yeah. Very, very important. >> [snorts] >> Uh by the way, if you're coming to the UK and Ireland tour later this year, I'm going to be bringing some of you up on stage to answer your questions. So, if you've got a question or a story that you think would be worth me talking about, you can go to chriswilliamson.live/questions and give me your questions and I'll be picking the best ones and you can join me on tour. So, most people have no idea where their testosterone levels sit. But what if I told you there was a solution? Something that identifies low T faster than a high school bully and it won't cost you all your lunch money. That's where Function comes in. Gives you access to over 160 lab tests including a deep dive into your full hormone panel. Every result is reviewed by clinicians. Anything out of range is flagged and you get clear explanations with a personalized protocol with actionable next steps. So, if something's off, you know exactly what to do about it. Whether you just need to go to the gym more or you need to play Creed louder in your car, Function will tell you exactly where your testosterone and everything else stands. Normally, this level of testing would usually cost thousands, but with Function, it's $365 a year. That's $1 a day to stop guessing with your health and start knowing. And right now, you can get $25 off, bringing it down to 340 bucks. So, get the exact same blood panels that I do and save $25 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom using the code modernwisdom at checkout. >> Little question for you. >> Yes. >> Um I can't pronounce this word, but I'm going to give it a go. Have you heard of, I think it's hypo hypo mnemonist? >> No. >> So, I got it from my friend Henrik Karlsson, who has this wonderful Substack. And during my era, the either ancient Greek or Roman era, it's very different to what it was today. So, we have this kind of bombardment of new information. We're constantly scrolling social media. I'm sure you have this where you'll see this amazing pithy tweet or you'll read something incredible, and your life's going to change forever after from this point onwards. And then, 3 months later, you see the thing again, you go, "Oh, I completely forgot about that." And it had no impact at all. >> Mhm. >> So, what the ancient Greeks or the Romans used to do would be they would have um a book of all these insights that they'd collected. And each morning, they would think of a problem that they're facing, and they would go and meditate on the specific passage or the specific quote. So, what I was actually This is where my question >> Question Question time. >> kicks in is as if you was to have that little notepad notebook of lessons that you often forget or simply just wish that you took more seriously that you would look at each day, what is on your list? >> So, what is What are the most known but not followed. >> Not necessarily not followed by other people. It could just be or it could even be followed by yourself, just not as much. You always underprice this lesson. You wish you took it more seriously. >> Something like no amount of worrying is going to make any difference to what happens. Some lesson along those lines cuz worrying's very addictive. It's very addictive because it feels like making progress. Homozie once when I started doing investing, he gave me this really wonderful piece of advice on a call and he said, "The most dangerous calls in all of business are just calling to connect. We'd just love to We'd just love to explain the business to you." So, cuz they have all of the trappings of doing work and making progress, but never result in work being done. You need to join that sequence further down the line once once more scrutiny's being done. Like the first stage, second stage. This is why I think in order to end up in front of him to do acquisition.com, you're 10 stages deep into the circle of hell. And worrying kind of feels like the same thing, although it's not as conscious. You're not doing because you think that it's going to be We you forget this is not moving my situation forward. No amount of anxiety is going to change the outcome. No amount of worrying is going to actually make a difference to anything that happens. And ultimately, all of your worries were a waste of time in any case. >> There's a a great um book that I uh a like book of stories of interviewing old people about their lives. And one of them said, "What was one of your best lessons you ever had?" And she goes, "I had this like nightmare thing that I was ruminating on, worrying about. So, I called one of my friends and I tell her I could She kept spilling and telling everything that I'm worried about. And she goes, "Do you remember 6 months ago when you came to me about this nightmare worry that you had? >> Mhm. >> And she names it back. She goes No, I I don't. And she goes exactly. Just hung up. She said it was one of the best lessons of my life. I was like, oh, this thing is going to be here today and then gone tomorrow. I also saw this humorous statistic which was They had people apparently with generalized anxiety disorder put down their worries and then they tracked how many of them came true. >> Mhm. >> And it was found that 91.6% didn't come true. >> Right. >> But if you have true anxiety, you start wondering well, what about that? What about that remaining 8.4%? >> yeah. That's that's real anxiety right there. I'm in the 8.4% all in. I knew that I would be in the 8.4%. >> There was another guy who helped Lewis Capaldi with anxiety. I think he wrote a book called Addicted to Anxiety. And he apparently once cured somebody of their anxiety. Like removed a lot of the issues. And they rang them the next day saying I'm anxious. Where's my anxiety gone? It's like almost this addiction that exists. >> Yeah, I was talking to Joe Hudson yesterday and there's a a bunch of stuff that's maybe exciting or that is exciting that's happening. I shouldn't hedge the fact that this thing is maybe exciting. Bunch of stuff going on that's exciting and I was like, I'm a little I'm I'm I'm I'm unsure how to navigate this uh preamble this the build-up toward the build-up and he said if I was your coach, which obviously he is. He's like, if I was your coach, I would tell you that you need to work on your pleasure anxiety which is that being excited about something in advance often feels an awful lot like anxiety. They're very, very close. What would it be for you? What would the lesson be that you most repeatedly come back to >> Ooh. >> You know one would be David Ogilvy's line of you think you're advertising to a standing army, but you're actually advertising to a moving parade. >> Yep. >> So, in the niche world of advertising, Ogilvy applies it in the sense that he would work with these huge brands, and these huge brands will be like, "Why are we still running this ad? I've seen it everywhere." And it's like, "Nobody else has seen things the way you've seen them." But, what I love about that idea is it's not just necessarily ad campaigns. It applies to we we constantly observe ourselves significantly more than anybody else is observing us. So, it's this standing army versus moving parade. >> Mhm. >> And how does that relate to you? >> Well, okay. Um So, here like a little one, right? So, uh I put together this list recently of all the best books um that I've read. And I'll post it out there, highagency.com/books for people listening. I'll post it out there, and I will then think about, "Oh, I don't necessarily want to post it again. People have already seen it." But, then on the 17th post, somebody go, "Oh, I've just found this." And often it's the case that nobody has [ __ ] seen it. It's always a moving parade. So, that's one lesson. >> Uh there's a legendary story in advertising circles about auto magnate Henry Ford. He had a layout of the company's latest print ad tacked to his wall, which he saw every time he came into his office. One day, he loudly announced that he was tired of the ad. It was high time to create a new one. "But, Mr. Ford," his assistant stammered, "that hasn't even started running yet." It's only natural for a client to get tired of an ad long before it's intended audience does. So, how do you determine determine when it's time to change your campaign? >> Mhm. And I'll see this when when it's This is particularly British syndrome. I don't think Americans struggle with this as much, but when a Brit will do some new creative endeavor, do a business, do anything, they almost feel past the first initial ask to follow up. >> Yeah. >> It's very un-British, Christopher. >> Do you Were you friends with me when I made gas your friends up my tagline for a couple of years? >> Yeah. >> That would have been at this start of our friendship. >> I was gassed. >> Yeah, yeah, well you were try you were you've actually been probably the most gassed of all of my friends about everything I've done. But yeah, I I I just had this line that um if you support Rihanna's new single more than your friends' new business, you're a bad friend. It's so [ __ ] true. Like gas your friends up, dude. Buy their shirts, support them, share their work, tell them you they're doing good. Like obviously don't encourage them to do something which is horrendous and give them feedback, but like at the very least you can support it. They've done something that but buy the [ __ ] ticket. Go to the show. Support your friends. >> It's very uh memetic though, right? You kind of have >> Someone needs to begin. It's like having It's like having an open emotionally intimate relationship until somebody opens up it's difficult >> No, I mean more that I think one of the reasons why you have less of that is that people see sometimes their friends weirdly as as rivals because they have more similarities in common with them. >> Uh narcissism is small differences. >> Maybe, but I think my I think >> point still stands, which is if you want your friends to support you more, a great way to do that is to start supporting your friends. Now, it's another Joe Hudsonism when it comes to communicating that if you show up in your relationship differently after about six or seven very differently, uh there is a typical flow that you and your partner go through. They get to be the bully and you get to be the victim. Or they get to be the victim and you get to be the savior. There is a dance, a sort of tone, a rhythm to the way that you communicate. And if when that happens, you show up in a very different way, presumably a much more positive way, more regulated, more calm, more peaceful, more listen empathetic, it only takes seven times of you doing that. They'll notice after the first time. After the next few, they'll really notice. After about seven times on average, he said, "That pattern just can't continue. It's like playing tennis with the other person not hitting the ball back." >> Mhm. >> So, if you want to change the situation that you're in, the best thing to do is change your own behavior. >> That's beautiful. >> It's cool. >> That would be on my list. What else would you have on your list? >> Your default choices are almost always wrong. Like, if you don't step into your programming and just think a little And this is where the rumination trap comes in because you think, "Ooh, thinking's good for me. Let's do an infinite amount. Let's do an infinite amount of it." No. It's like you need to do just a little bit. Um you need to practice something before you end up relying on instinct. At least that's uh That's a lesson that keeps coming back to me that most of your defaults are like confused chemical signals coming from your body or social norms or paths of least resistance or the way that you've dealt with past trauma. Almost all of those are not things that you consciously chosen. >> Yes. >> Like, the things that you want aren't the things that you want to want if you don't take some time designing your desires, you end up following the path that everyone else does and like outsourcing your wisdom to the group is usually a bad idea. >> Even what you said then around the questioning the first thought, assuming the first thought isn't necessarily you. I always go back to that wonderful um meditation exercise of what's the next thought going to be? Yeah, you sit there. Try it now if anybody where you sit there and you just ask yourself I'm not going to think, but let's just see what the next thought appears is. You just become the watcher. And I find when I did that for the first time it was simply uh the Bayern Munich player Arjen Robben cutting in on his left foot. And then it's like, "Huh, why why is that there?" I haven't thought of him in a long, long time. And you begin to realize a lot of it is just an automatic response. What else do you like from uh meditation questions? I know that's one of your favorites. What are some of the other ones that have been really resonant with you? The problem with >> [snorts] >> uh talking about meditation is first you look like a wanker. >> Well, >> Yeah, but >> [laughter] >> It's very late for that. Say that. You've got to You've got to address that up front. The second problem is Have you ever heard There's this great line where when what happens is learning meditation, it's kind of like learning Japanese. And then you go and tell everybody how wonderful it is, but you do so in Japanese. So, that's why when you read anything about it, it almost doesn't make sense. Um A cool one is to try and turn uh like awareness in on itself. Have you ever tried that? Where you think of your awareness, and then you try and become aware of it. And it's almost like this mirror, and you go, "Oh, shit." >> That's quite scary. >> That's one of uh Sam's like quick hit things, where you try and catch your own awareness quickly. It's kind of strange cuz most of the time when you're doing any meditation or mindfulness, it's this evolving, it's slow, but this is more like trying to get an animal in a trap. Except the animal is you, and the trap is also you. Uh anyway, George Mack, ladies and gentlemen. Love you all. Thank you very much for tuning in. Where should people go? >> high-agency.com/books Read them. >> Heck yeah. >> All right. Goodbye, my beauties. >> Dude, yes. Let's go. >> Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, [music] YouTube knows who you are. Deeply. It thinks you're going to like this one [music] even more. Go on. Press it.