Video summary
The podcast explores the defining crisis of modern masculinity, arguing that we are witnessing a historical shift where cultural definitions of manhood are no longer established by men themselves but rather contested within the realm of narrative and story. The speakers reference Yuval Noah Harari's concept in *Sapiens* regarding future wars fought over subjective realities to illustrate how current gender conflicts play out primarily through competing narratives online, particularly within movements like "manosphere" or "red pill." This cultural battle is compounded by a societal push for male vulnerability that often lacks the necessary resources; men are told to open up about struggles with employment, divorce, and mental health without addressing systemic issues such as declining workforce participation, reduced college attendance, falling testosterone levels, and financial instability. A central point of contention highlighted in the discussion is the "zero-sum view of empathy," where attention given to male problems is perceived by some as detracting from women's or other minority groups' struggles. The speakers critique this perspective, noting that recognizing men's plights does not ignore women's issues and ultimately benefits both sexes when systemic causes are addressed rather than individual ones. They observe a disturbing trend of "mating logic sepu," where apathetic, resentful men withdraw from society—checking out of marriage and parenthood—which ironically exacerbates the very problems women complain about regarding eligible partners. The dialogue emphasizes that unlike other groups whose suffering is met with societal intervention and funding, men are frequently told to simply pull themselves up by their bootstraps or fix themselves individually without structural support. The conversation further delves into the concept of vulnerability, challenging the myth that it is universally desired when a man expresses genuine distress. The speakers argue that society often fails to know how to handle male vulnerability because they do not want to confront real social problems like "red shirting" boys or economic decline. Instead, there is an expectation for men to be self-reliant even as they face significant hurdles, leading many young men to disengage from traditional societal roles. The hosts stress that if women were similarly checking out of culture in large numbers, society would likely respond with systemic analysis rather than individual blame-shifting, suggesting a double standard exists where male problems are framed through a female lens or treated as personal failures while other issues receive institutional attention. The discussion concludes by addressing the specific framing of traditional masculinity as harmful to mental health, which some argue treats men like "defective women" in modern therapy practices. The speakers express skepticism toward this narrative, labeling it an example of what they term "gy centrism," where minority viewpoints or underclass status are upheld regardless of their practical impact on broader societal stability. They criticize the tendency to treat issues like trans athletes' rights or hormone use for children as major cultural battles while ignoring male struggles through a similar lens of victimhood without offering solutions. Ultimately, the speakers call for men to reassess what vulnerability means in practice and advocate for open conversations that address structural challenges—financial, emotional, and systemic—rather than relying on psychological fixes alone, urging listeners not to be afraid to speak about their frustrations with life's difficulties.
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you know when I look out at the internet
today and you see this huge swell within
men's work within the manosphere within
red pill you know certain figures that
are online that have just had a meteoric
rise in in many ways it's because
they're speaking to the the sort of
cultural underpinnings of what men are
experiencing you know we're living
through one of the first times in my
opinion in almost all of history all
known history where masculinity isn't
getting defined by men right culturally
if you look at what makes a good man and
what makes a a man masculine there's
sort of this battle for being able to
Define it and I think it was juil Harari
um in sapiens where or no maybe it was
homod deas where he talks about how in
the
future the wars will be fought within
inter subjective reality within the
reality of story within the reality of
narrative and I think that that's where
a lot of the quote unquote gender Wars
is are happening right now it's within
the realm of story and within the realm
of narrative and so anyway that's a
little existential but to pull it back
down to reality I think you're right
there's there's this there's this very
big challenge that a lot of men feel
which is they're being told specifically
by a lot of women to open up by Society
by Instagram by Facebook it's like open
up be more vulnerable and then there's a
bit of a mixed bag when they do it uh or
they don't feel like they have the
proper resources to go and do it right
they're not sure what's going to happen
if they they open up and say hey man
like listen I'm really struggling like
I'm struggling to get out of bed I
freaking hate my job I like I'm barely
getting by I don't know how to support
myself I'm really struggling what you
know what should I do or you know what
have you done and so I think that that's
the the inflection point that a lot of
men find themselves at and the challenge
is that when we talk about some of the
issues that men are going through
because statistically speaking in a lot
of ways men are in Decline right in
decline in the workforce but not going
to college as much I mean it's all stuff
that you've talked about on your show
before lifespan Health span lifespan
healthspan they're living at home longer
they don't have as much money they're
not buying properties as much um they're
not graduating from college I mean it's
just like across the board
testosterone's down it's like you know
there's some big things that we as a
culture and as a society should be
talking about but what I've noticed is
that when we want to talk about men's
problems if we want to talk about men
improving themselves everybody's for
that thumbs up green LD across the board
if we want to talk about the issues that
men are having uh that's a very
different Challenge and what men are
usually met with is the solution of be
more vulnerable it's like oh you hate
your life because your wife just
divorced you and left you and took the
kids and half of your net worth just be
more vulnerable just open up and talk
about it and that'll solve it and it's
like well but what about the judicial
system you know what about talking about
some of the things that are actually um
you know sort of infringing and
impinging on men's lives so I think some
of these things are you know I think
that they're coming to a head in a lot
of ways I had a uh post that I put up on
Twitter that I got a lot of [ __ ] for so
I'm going to say it again publicly
trying to work why men are struggling is
largely a thankless task this is the
Zero Sum view of empathy there is an
assumption that any attention paid
toward men takes it away from women or
some other minority group who is more
deserving after all haven't men had it
good enough for long enough maybe they
should just suck it up for a while but
empathy does not work this way it's not
a limited resource recognizing the
plights of men does not ignore the
plights of women and ultimately women
end up suffering in any case as it's
this increasing cohort of apathetic
checked out and resentful men who
contribute to the exact lack of eligible
partners that women say they're
struggling with women who post boohoo
poor patriarchy sad whilst also
complaining about where are all the good
men at are committing mating logic sepu
if one sex loses both sexes lose male
blame is something else that I see a lot
and this is what triggered what you just
said a common question is why don't men
just do better surely they can work
harder in school employment and health
Chop Chop men hurry up and stop being so
useless well no other group is told that
when they suffer with poor performance
or accolades in the real world that they
should just pull themselves up by their
bootstraps we don't tell any other group
to talk about their problems instead we
spend billions in taxpayer money and
private charity to set up committees
departments campaigns and funds to solve
the problem in simple terms if a woman
has a problem we ask what can we do to
fix Society if a man has a problem we
ask what can men do to fix
themselves
you nailed it yeah yeah I mean that I
think that summarizes it in a nutshell
right the the myth of male vulnerability
is that it's wanted and the reality is
that society and people generally don't
know what to do with it when it arises
because when it comes forward there are
very real things that we have to look at
socially in terms of altering I mean
Richard Reeves who I think we've both
interviewed and talked to talks about
red shirting boys you know and it's like
that created so much controversy just
that one thing you know a lot of people
were against it and you know we
shouldn't be treating boys and girls
differently and you know some people are
on board with it which is great but I I
think that in large part that's the
attitude that society and culture sort
of pushes back on men is well you guys
just need to go and figure it out and I
think that a lot of young men hear that
in today's world and are just checking
out like I see it in my YouTube comments
you know you probably to too it's just
like you know I did a video on I did two
videos one on you know should you bother
getting married or is marriage is
marriage dying and then you know should
you bother having kids and it's very
interesting to hear and see people's
responses and to get the DMS back from
it and and you know I think in large
part there's a huge cohort of men who
are just like checking out from Marriage
from having kids from society in a very
real way and that should be caused for
concern that shouldn't be like we should
not be approaching that problem if women
were just checking out from culture and
Society like in large numbers I do not
think that we would be approaching that
problem with the sense of well you
either just need to get your [ __ ]
together or you just need to sit down
and talk about it we would be looking at
what systemically are causing some of
these issues and how can we actually go
about creating a a robust plan and
structure to actually do something about
those challenges that they're facing
so I think we need to bring that into
and I think that's an important part of
any man's work you know to really be um
in the conversation of where where do I
feel stuck you know who can I talk to
who can I open up to are there
challenges that I feel bogged down by in
my life that aren't just psychological
or emotional you know that are maybe
Financial um that are maybe structural
within my life that that I'm frustrated
by and to be able to
have some conversation and to work on
those things I think is incredibly
important yeah I um I got in trouble
from a different group for saying uh
limits on speech are limits on sincerity
that if it doesn't make you any less
vulnerable to not talk about your
vulnerability like if you're if you're
so much of a [ __ ] that you're
struggling with the things you're
struggling with and then you layer on
top the amount of pussin that you need
to not be able to talk about it how does
that make you any stronger and a lot of
people brought up the you bring it up to
your girl and there things is going to
go wrong and then she's going to leave
you with the postman or whatever
and the it's coming back to that stat at
the start about men not even being able
to open up to other men and like I'm
speaking to myself right like I'm
speaking this isn't me from a [ __ ]
high horse of like masculine virtue
saying that I've got it all figured out
um but I do think
that
reassessing what we mean by
vulnerability and the frame that is
placed around these sorts of
conversations and again for the women
that are listening like these are the
guys that you're get going to get into a
relationship with these are the guys
that are going to have to be up five
times a night when the baby's got a
stomach bug at six months old or
whatever right like this is the degree
of resilience that you require from your
partner is not just in terms of their
resources it's emotionally as well and
the I I [ __ ] hate hate it when people
go this is gy centrism at work I'm like
dude like [ __ ] hell you really think
that like women could coordinate anybody
could coordinate like some Mass move
toward one thing it's the popular view
at the moment because it makes you seem
empathetic if you support women it makes
you seem like you're standing up for the
little person right it's the same
tyranny of the minority rule that we see
in everything it's why trans athletes in
sport is such a big deal it's why kids
getting hormones is such a big deal it's
why ensuring that you know we can move
gay rights into the Middle East is such
a big deal blah blah like fine totally
fine like you know well not fine but you
know what I mean like find for you to
talk about it you can [ __ ] open it up
as a big deal
but it's not the same
case when you're talking
about male problems through a female
frame like the presumption it's from the
term from evolutionary psychology is a
failure of cross- seex mind reading
and I don't know why it's the case I
understand why publicly this tyranny of
the minority or like the uphel the
upholding of the of the underclass thing
like I understand why that has um why
that makes sense like it's it's got some
status associated with it what I don't
understand is how it actually gets
pushed into capturing the frame of a
conversation around like what men should
do why is it that you know the you sent
me this insight from the American
Psychological Association um traditional
masculinity is defined as harmful and
damaging to boys and men's mental health
uh modern therapy basically treats men
like defective women um yeah I I that's
the bit where I actually think well
[ __ ] hell like that is gy centrism at
work even if it's not coordinated by
some cabal of [ __ ] hooded women like
big titty hooded women like all drinking
male Adrena Chrome or something and and
eating fried foreskins like that's not
necessarily what's happening but in
terms of a cash value of what's
occurring I do think that that's what
we're ending up with I'm just waiting
for the animated videos of your
commentary and then the animation on the
front like big titted hoodied women
frying up foreskin it's you know have
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