The Good Oil Podcast - Episode 34 - Billy Brown

Hey now, welcome to the show where the wind's blowing strong and the truth can flow. This is the good oil. Catch a vibe today. >> Welcome to the good oil podcast. Before we get started with our guest, we have to look at a one of our latest cigars that's come in the May Hemingway selection. This cigar is a little cutie. Uh, it's a Cordwell yellow cake 2026 Manduro Rabusto. Uh, it's a Dom Dom Dominican Republic cigar. It's got a little pigtail on the end. It's just for aesthetics. You obviously trim that off. Uh, this will be a uh a fantastic little cigar. It's a 5 in x 52 uh ring size. Uh, it's probably a good hour smoking. Uh, if you want to learn more about these cigars, uh, and everything to do about cigars, then you can join the Hemingway Club or the Passionados Club at canteros.n. Welcome to the Good Oil Podcast. This is episode 34 and with me is Billy Brown. >> Thanks, Cam. Thanks. Nice to be here, eh? Well, yeah. I was watching you um talk u you're ahead of me on Shubs's show on Monday and I've been sitting in there listening to 15 or 20 minutes of you talking to to Shubs and and uh I said to Shubs, I need to get Billy on the show because the things he's saying just resonate with me. Uh but you're taking a perspective from a Maui perspective, but those things are resonating with me. And I was born in Fiji and I'm European. So having those things resonate with me means well makes makes you interesting. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just got to you know a bit of a view on things as I was saying earlier on before the the family and I very much in that t moldy space but we I just see where the country where I believe the country needs to start heading >> because I believe in a prosperous New Zealand because a great New Zealand actually means a great uh country means that Moldi can do well as well. as well. >> No, everybody can do well >> and and that's the whole purpose. If we're a prosperous country, New Zealand's prosperous, moldy can do well and non moldy can do well. And I just talk from a moldy point of view because I'm a moldy man. I want our faro to do well. So if we can get this economic machine sorted in New Zealand, how good it would be for for Moldi as well. I think it'd be the the opportunities that this country offers, uh, you know, from my perspective is that, you know, we've always had an ethos of, um, Jack's as good as his master. >> Mhm. >> Um, and you literally can do anything in this country still. Um, irrespective of your background if you're just prepared to work hard. And that's the message that I'm picking up that you're saying as well in in your spots on the radio and you know you you've got your Instagram and and your Tik Toks and things like that. But uh you must be attracting a fair bit of hate. >> Yeah, I am. But just to touch on that, I do believe this country is a meritocracy. And I think if you can work hard, you achieve anything you want. And I just want to get my story out there because >> I don't come from priv privilege quotation. come from a struggling working-class family, New Zealand Kiwi family >> who papa is moldi and moldi um >> and I left school around that 13 years old not educated um had a learning disability um got a bit of dyslexia and if I can achieve um great things I think every day any key we can achieve anything so I'm all about that mindset >> yeah I mean one of my mentors is a guy that has dyslexia >> um incredibly wealthy guy. Um, and he had a hard upbringing. He wouldn't wouldn't have been classed as, you know, privileged. Um, worked on the tools, you know, basically since he was about 15 or so. And, um, and then he's a multi-millionaire and he's done all of that without any qualifications. Um, not sat any exams. Um, he always jokes that if you start a question, a a sentence with, "Have you read?" The answer is no. >> I agree. I agree. I don't think you need to be educated to be smart as well. >> Yeah. Well, that's the thing. So, tell us a little bit about your your your upbringing. What is has c you know, created this foundation of well, it it's hard to describe what I'm what I'm seeing right in you is is a you've got a lot a big presence when you speak. You speak with authority, you speak with knowledge, and you speak with experience. And that shows through in in the words that you use. I'm a big fan of listening to what people say, >> not watching what they do because what they say betrays their true self. And that's that's what I see from you. I just want the people who have not, you know, people who watch this podcast or people who read my website to understand what makes Billy Brown tick. Well, a bit about me like I grew up in Canterbury, North Kbury, Ka Boy, which is just um I think it's like 15 30 minutes out of Christ Church. Um as I said, the upbringing was very very tough. Um dad worked really hard >> and that kind of like cemented my thought process. So dad was a very much a believer you have to be accountable for your own actions and he led >> through his examples. He wasn't actually a big talker. He he just led. You know, we grew up in a family where dad would push bike to Christ Church uh airport which we lived in Koi. So that's probably about a 45 minute drive. So I don't know whe that's in cycle terms. I'm not a cycller. Sorry. Don't worry about that. >> And um it been like a time I remember this time and it's kind of like resonates with me is um he would work that hard. He knew he'd bike to the Christ Church airport from Koi and he would do it from dry norwest summers and extreme cold canary weathers. And there was a time where the pedal broke off and he had to bike home with no with only one pedal. He had to put a block on the pedal to he could afford to pay for that the next pay. We didn't. Yeah. So, dad was all about if you could um get up early and he was a big believer in fitness as well. He's still very fit for a sick 606 that cycling would have >> Yeah. And he still cycles today. Big believer in um your body being well, working hard and provide for your family as as much as you can, you know. And we he didn't get to reap his hard work completely, but he showed me that work ethic and he and he he clearly showed me that no one's going to come and save you. Like I just he just was all about accountability. >> So the government's not going >> to come and government will never save you. If the government turns up like Ronald Reagan saying we're from the government and we're here to save you, you should run. >> The nine most treated words as far as possible because the only person who's going to save you and I'm going to talk for men because I'm a man um is yourself. >> Yeah. >> We we're not really loved by people. We have to be providing and protecting for our family. >> And the only people who will save us is ourselves or the only person who will save you is yourself. Yeah. So that resonates with me because dad didn't say that like I've just said that but he showed me them attributes how to become a good strong provider and someone who's going to protect their family and how to no matter what your background is you can stand up and say whatever you want it's your opinion and we live in New Zealand >> we're allowed opinions >> we're allowed opinions and if you don't like my opinion don't listen to my opinion so I I speak from authority because my father showed me that way >> you know he had the strength and manner to stand up. >> But that does show through in you, you know, that strength and that manner. You're you're >> uh not just portraying, but you're actually like delivering that when you speak. >> And I understand exactly what you're saying about the only person who's going to save yourself. I mean, you don't find this out often in life unless you have significant, you know, challenges or trials. Could be health issues, could be work issues, could be all sorts of things. The only person who is going to save you is yourself. >> Correct. And it's okay to fail. I've failed. But you what you need to recognize, too, is you need to get back up. >> Well, you don't learn to ride a bike without falling off, do you? >> 100%. But it comes back to that, you know, no one's going to come save you. So, you fail. >> Get back on the bike. >> Like Joo says um in his podcast, good. Get back up and keep riding. >> Yeah. You know, and we have to there's a point in time in New Zealand now we it's not 2020 anymore where Auntie Justinda is going to shut people's conversations down. We're allowed to have these conversations and if you don't like the conversations, don't listen because this is New Zealand. >> There's an off switch. >> Yeah, there's an off switch or there's you can turn off the internet. We can go watch someone else. Yeah. >> But this is New Zealand and we have the fundamental right to express our opinions. the opinions that you're expressing at the moment. You know, I was watching some of the the comments that were coming through coming through yesterday on Shubs's program >> and they're outight actually racist. >> Well, from Maui to a Maui >> person. >> Racist, >> you know, the right kind of Maui is basically what they're saying. And calling you things like, you know, an Uncle Tom. >> Mhm. and stuff like that that you that you've been colonized. I don't I don't see that. But >> how do you feel when when people are hurling abuse like that at you? >> Yeah, that's a great um question. I feel good. >> I feel real good because I know I'm on the right path. >> Yeah. >> When I'm getting I'm just laying out a challenge and our culture is built around New Zealand's culture but also multiculture. >> Right. There's a challenge. >> There's a challenge. You stand on the pip. There's a challenge. I'm challenging our people to step up. And it goes back to that accountab account accountability conversation that we just had. Um I don't it doesn't bother me. Um they can call me whatever I want they want. That's their opinion and that's really good. But I know >> but you're talking about facts and details and things like that. They're just hurling abuse. >> You're winning. >> Yeah. Well, and it drives >> not with them but >> and it drives the algorithm too. So I do I I do have a play too cam where I like to reply with a question and it and it drives the algorithm a lot a lot more. So I just think good because if they don't agree with me, I know I'm pushing through the radicals, the radical left within New Zealand culture and that's a good thing because that it's minority of New Zealand online. It's minority, the loud minority. They don't they don't run this country. Everyday Kiwis run this country and we need to take our country back. So when I hear or read them comments where I get de threats like I just got before um I feel great about it because I feel I'm on the right path and I'm going to make a change for New Zealand. >> You were talking yesterday and saying you somebody said oh New Zealand's a racist country and you made some comments about that. >> Um and particularly you were saying well in the last three years the two deputy prime ministers that we've had have both been married. How's that racist? >> It's not racist. I I I don't understand. It's the same thing what you just said like they come back and you know David Seymour is not the right moldy. >> Winston Peters is not the right moldy. But the facts are in the last three years we've had two moldy prime ministers. I don't agree with David Seymour's policy on act. That's my opinion. Doesn't take away the fact he pop is moldy. I really like Winston Peters's policies because obviously I'm a member of New Zealand first so I have bias here. But he's they're both still moldy. And you know, it's interesting because Shubs asked that and he's on the radio. >> Yeah. >> He's not from um wealthy family either. You know, he has a um tough upbringing and he can speak on his own upbringing. >> He was on my show telling me about that, you know. Then >> I'll watch that. It's a it's a good one and people should go watch that because >> it gives you a true picture of what Shubs is about. Yeah, but how good is New Zealand when you got two moldy men talking about moldy issues online and on the radio and you got had two deputy prime ministers in the last 3 years? It's 2026. We're not living in 1910 or 1840 or 1850 where there was some difficult uh for moldy people and we can um recognize historic past but we should not be trapped in the past and in 2026 the only thing that's holding back anyone in New Zealand is themselves. The only person that is connalizing moldy people today are are the your individual self and the party moldi because the party moldi want you to be in that victim box. They want you to feel like you're inferior because that's their business. And if you don't feel inferior, they're not going to keep their votes. >> That's an interesting observation of Depati Mari because if you look back in their history when you had Peter Sharples >> and you had Tiana as the as the co-leaders that party had mana, >> right? Those both of those people had mana. Tiana Tia stood up to Helen Clark and made her and left the Labour Party on a matter of principle. Not many people do that. Leave on a matter of principle and then do what Winston Peters has done too when he left the National Party. Go and stand against the party that he left and win. And that's what Tiana did. John Key welcomed them into into his government, right? He didn't have to do that. He wanted to do that. And I think that the impact that Tati Mari had with with the government of the day at that time was a good impact for New Zealand society. Um, sadly I see Tati Mari has fallen into disarray really. They've got one thing and that is marry a hard dumb. We was robbed. Um the treaty's a fraud. Uh honor the treaty. I how you treaties of fraud and honor the treat kind of don't work together. Um and and everything's the fault of whity. >> Um and people get sick of hearing that. >> They do. And you're right to I'll rephrase that. the Moldi party >> when they're in power with John Keys, they they achieve great things for Moldi. >> It's better to be in the tent than outside it, isn't it? >> And that's that's where Mana comes from. You don't have to agree with anything, but what you need is alignment. And mana is actually sitting at the table. Leadership is sitting at the table with people you do not do not like and getting outcomes for your people. You don't get outcomes sitting on the sideline and being an activist. And that's what's a party moldy. >> But wasn't that the treaty, right? Sitting sitting in a tent. 100% it is. Yeah. >> Right. With people you didn't really like and you'd been fighting and come to an agreement. >> Yeah. Potentially they didn't um some didn't like um they didn't like each other but potentially they some of them liked each other. >> Many of those of those WI leaders that were signing the treaty didn't like each other. >> No, they didn't. No, you're right. You're totally correct there. Yes. >> Did anyone from Did anyone outside of Napoui enjoy sitting at the table with Napoui? >> Probably not. >> Probably not. No, you're you're 100% correct. >> Especially around the Bay of Plenty. >> When when only 10 years earlier, Hungiheka was uh was raiding and taking slaves. >> Yeah. And he pushed them all down to McCoy Island. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Totally. So, you're right. Yes. And the the treaty is it can't be a fraud and honor at the same time. And there's only three articles and there's no principles. >> And you know, on that too, the treat is pretty clear too that >> it's fairly simple. You know, article one in Moldi, they gave out governance at a national level. That's that's very clear. Article two, there's some property rights for hapu in WI collective rights. Article three is the only time they talk about individual moldi and we become subjects of the British crown. And there's and that's there's obligations and rights behind that, but that's the only time where it speaks around individual moldi and we become British subjects. And we if you're historian, if you know history, you know what it means to be a British subject. You don't hold any sovereignty. You're a subject to the crown. End of. >> That's right. >> Yeah. And I do believe there is property rights for collective. Um and I don't want them to be eroded at all. However, at the same time, I don't want EW and Hapu to hold this country to ransom like they have down in the South Island and they want this these payouts of $100 million. Yeah. and total 350 million and like the question I have I was caught up with Tracy who's a counselor for western bay plenty is how much does the tunnif actually need why is it 350 million a tanifar needs why isn't a dollar why does a tanif need 250 million so why are we paying out so much money to these ews and hapoos just to tick a box to say hey kipai here every single kiwi should be asking that question and that's not a parkour question that's a New Zealand question Because every time EWI elites do this, we you and I the taxpayer pay more cuz they pass that cost on to us. You know, there was a a movie years ago by Billy T. James um came out Friday or whatever it was. I think that was the name of it. And in that there's this building that falls down the into the river, catches fire, and Billy um T. James is on the bridge and being a Mexican Maui and uh he sees this house coming down the river. I don't know if you've seen it, but >> go and have a look at it. You can find on YouTube. There's this house coming down the river on fire and there's, you know, a couple of windows that are dark, but there's all these flames and and the door and the porch and it looks like a a monster coming down the river and he's going, "Oh, the teddy, the teddy." and he's just stolen all this money and then he just starts flicking it out into the oh the tannif needs more money and I thought you know that's what that's probably 30 years ago >> right >> that he was joking about the tannifar and how the only way that you can make a tannifar go away temporarily of course is usually by backing up a large truck of cash >> Billy T was ahead of his time I think and if people actually remember right a lot of moldy people didn't actually like Billy two died because he was head of that time. He was taking the mick >> out of the hypocrisy in molding them at the time and and >> yeah I find it interesting though with the where they hold the country ransom though these ew and hapu it's not just 350 at toong it's actually what was it down south or one of the dams I think it was 110 million over 30 years >> yeah now you've got this mine >> mine in the targetgo they were up around 150 last time I looked >> that's extortion e and we really need to push back as New Zealanders and say, "Oh, what's going on here?" Because these moldy elite, they're not the Kato who are having a, you know, a cup of tea and telling all these whiters or the all these podos these stories. These are elite moldi on hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and they're making a profit out of this and we need to ask a question, not as moldy, but as New Zealanders and go, what's going on? This is this is getting beyond the joke here because we can't afford this as a country anymore. Well, if you look at Nahu and they have to be the ones that are doing the stuff in the South Island, right, >> is they had one of the largest settlements. >> Nahu understandably um very small wi >> not many members huge settlement and now they're continuing. A settlement implies that that's done. >> It's been paid out. Correct. We we've drawn a line under the past. We acknowledged some wrongs. We've passed an act of parliament. We've given you some recompense for that. Might not be as much as you wanted or whatever, but that's the deal. This having a second bite of the cherry uh through, as you say, extortion. Surely, you know, there's better ways to do it than trying to do an ewe tax. I don't know any other words that can describe it as other than an ew tax that's occurring just to get a nod of a scent or approval for for the plans. And if you look at that mine in in you know Santana's mine in in in Otago we would were happy to have mines where people could work and do things like that until they didn't get their demands and then they opposed it. The only reason they opposed is they didn't get any money. So that does make an extortion. I'm not sure how it helps progress New Zealand. >> It doesn't help at all. And I think we really need to have a a political lens look at this and go this is not this is beyond a second bite of the cherry. They're just taking the mick now because Kahu also get a top up as well. Every time someone gets a payout, they get a bigger payout. Well, they did. they get a top up and now they're requesting hundreds of millions of dollars just to say hey from a E point of view everything's KTP and there's no there's no it doesn't add value there's no value added apart from more costs to us more cost to corporations makes it difficult for this country to be um enticing for corporations to come in here we want mining back in New Zealand we need mining back in New Zealand >> we're blessed with natural resources in abundance Yes, we are. But when we have Ewin Hapu hold these things, hold us to ransom, it doesn't look like it's very appetite. Like people don't want to operate in New Zealand. Why would you want to operate New Zealand where you can go a bug of this? We can just go operate in Australia, especially when you would pay 10 something million out for a >> a hole in the ground. >> A hole in the ground. What's the value they adding? No value at all. >> Well, I mean, that's that's a whole another argument. What is the value for that? If if you're going to say it's $150 million, well, what what are we getting for that 150 million? If it's a rubber stamp, why don't we just go and spend the $5 and get the rubber stamp? >> Yeah, correct. Why can't we just change legislation to do that? Why can't we just change the laws? Like my position on this, if that ground's so tupper, you need $150 million. Where did you get the $150 million value from? Where did that get value from? Where does that does that does it have to be 150 to wipe out the the tapuness of that land? Why can't it be 149? Why can't it be $1? >> Yeah. How it is extortion, right? H Howard Hughes uh once asked a woman said, "Would you sleep with me for a million dollars?" And she said, "Well, yes, Mr. Hughes, I think I would." And uh she he then said, "Well, would you sleep with me for $50?" And she said, "What do you think I am?" He said, "I've already established what you are. We're just negotiating price now." >> I love it. I do actually like that. That's real good. >> But what do you get? What do you get for the 150 million or the 350 million in tower? What do you get other than a rubber stamp and and less hassles? Is it is it any different from a Black Power member putting a shotgun in your face and saying, "If you don't give me your wallet and everything in your house, I'll shoot you." >> The only difference is um that they're going to be physically there in your house, but there's no difference. It's extortion. It's still extortion. Like um this is where we need to push back as a country like how far we going to let these radicals take over the country and like even hapu are entitled to some property rights but they're not entitled to hold us this country to um to they're not entitled to steal this country and make it into a third world country like that's where we're heading if we continue to pay all this extortion money out 350 in Tonga 150 for a mine and there was a dam the damn name slips my mind but there was 100 million for the dam as well there's a lot of money >> going to hapu for no re no reason there's no value added at all >> I mean if they said um take for example for the mine I would have thought it'd be more lucrative uh and less painful if you said well we'd like a royalty >> right every time something gets shipped out of here to the markets we get a royalty on that of half a percent or something like that >> or we want equity in the operational business or something like that. >> Yeah. Or or you know we want some shares. >> Yeah. We want some or you know it could be a royalty in the game. >> Skin in the game. It could be royalty. It could be equity into the business. And also >> labor hire. >> Yeah. And I'm not even sure they even did that because that's that's real money. It's actually getting people back into work not taking the money because where does that money go afterwards? >> No one knows. >> Well, it goes in the coffers. >> Goes in the coffers. >> But you look at the seaord deal, right? The seaord deal was supposed to settle fisheries for Maui feord deal was done. Sealord was basically handed over to WI. Are any marry working on the boats? >> It's a good question. Are the boats being skipperided by by Mari? Are they crewed by Mari? Is is there been has there been an increase in uh uh Mari workers in in that fisheries? >> No. And that's what you know where they fail because the same in the dairy sector as well where are the dairies getting run by their their people who a papa not just moldi but is it are their hapu and ewi members running their farms is their hapu and nwi members being skippers on their boats the same when you look at the kitahu properties where are the hapu members you know they're making h they're turning over hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars why aren't they looking at a strategic plan and going over the next 30 to 40 years, we're going to give out these grants to the to our HU members and we want to over the next 30 to 40 years to fill these positions. >> See, >> because they don't they don't do that. They just look at the bottom line and that's where these wi and hapoos and excuse my language because I actually like using this term, but they become more parker than parka. they they operate better businesses than Parker because all they care about now is they care about the P&L how much revenue they're getting what's their opex running at. So the overhead structure look like and how much net profit they're making and how much dividends or how much they can reinvest back into the business. They don't they don't care about their people otherwise they would have a strategic plan over 30 to 40 to 50 years and going these roles are going to be filled by happy members and and they don't have to be but it's a belief >> but there's training that needs to go longterm planning isn't it >> we want the CFO in 30 to 40 years to be a happy member so what we're going to do is we're going to give out couple hundred accounting training each year and all we want want we want engineers scholarship. We want um engineers in Nahu property. So, we're going to give out this many and they should target it and have a strategic plan, but the only strategic plan they're building is how much more wealth can they build. I know of a of a farmer I I won't say the region because it will start identifying things. It's u it's a hapu owned farm. It's uh it's got all sorts of stock on it. There's dairy, there's obviously beef, um, sheep, everything. Um, and it's in it's in a you know, it's in the North Island. The person who runs that farm, I know who that person is, and he's uh European. He doesn't have any workers on the farm that are marrying. It's not through his choice. It's just they won't work on the farm. >> Even though the hapu owns the farm, they all the produce and the profit and everything that goes to the farm >> comes from the farm goes to the hapu. Um at any given time, you know, periodically fences will go missing. Like whole fences, gates taken, gone. Um items that are on the farm taken. and he can't do anything about it because the people who are doing that are happy members, right? But he's now then got to go and get a new gate, uh, refence that area, um, put that back the way it was. Um, and he's constantly, you know, battling to to replace stuff that the har members think, well, it's mine, so I can take it. Like a gate's kind of important. Yeah, it's very important on a farm, >> right? That's how you control stock movement and things like that, but they just disappear. Then you'll find uh the gate some, you know, days later or weeks later or whatever and it's been used um in a hang pit, >> right? >> Yeah, I know you're saying. Yeah. So, it's frustrating and but but the hapoo's not really benefiting from owning this farm which could have 20 or 30 workers on it at any given time doing various different things. Almost everybody works on the farms European or Indian >> or you see a lot of Filipinos now too on farms. And it's interesting because it's not just a moldy thing about getting young people back into the farming industry as uh as across the board, but it's an interesting conversation too where hapu members think they're entitled to things because they still they still we still need to ensure them businesses operate well so we can give back to the hapu. >> Um and I understand where you're coming from because we have that in our morti trust over in the chatams where people are taking the piss as well. list on Mori because you said you a papa to Mori. >> Yeah. >> There seems to be some revisionism in history >> about Morori now that they would just marry. >> What's your view on that? >> Yeah. So I hookup mi. We're not moldi. We're morti and we can definitely 100% different culture. We're all South Pacific people. >> But that's just like saying moldi and tongen. So if you said that to a moldy person, I'm pretty sure they would get upset. I'm pretty sure if you said to Tongen and Son, they're the same people. That would be probably fighting words. >> The closest you can get is Cook Islanders, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But we're definitely different culture. We have different languages. We have a different language. Um I actually posted that about that cam a couple of days ago. >> Yeah. My my partner said, "You should get this Billy Brown on your podcast cuz I was watching that was really great." Like she was telling me all about it. >> Yeah. So in 1835, two Wii Hapu um under some pressure after their campaigns with uh Tarapura down in the South Island, they stole a well >> stole a ship. >> Stole a ship. Was it stolen? They >> Yeah, it was stolen. >> Yeah, they stole it was definitely stolen. Um similar to what the probably the they do in Africa. Um and some some piracy they pushed down into into the Chadams or Ficodi if you're if you're moldy. But fat is actually a township which is also Mori in the name. Um they committed genocide. You know they they actually killed thousands of Miodi um enslaved them, raped them and this is what people don't realize. They actually keep them as Miodi people as food stock not like Moldi where they have cannibalism where they eat for mana. So you eat someone, you take their mana and defecating them out. So you take their mana. They were actually kept as food stock. So we completely different and it was quite interesting in that I actually found that one really weird like I said before I don't mind people commenting stuff but I found that really interesting that moldy particular 100% moldi it was all moldi >> there's no 100% mi >> no I mean like 100% moldy 100% moldy were commenting sorry um >> were re trying to rewrite history to fit their narrative on that and the facts are facts that's what happened cam >> you I mean didn't this is what happened and my post was um it was something like Moldio iconalizes us too >> I used to joke when I when when I'd go on radio live with Willie and JT so it's quite some time ago >> and I used to joke with them that Mari were first colonizers >> and they didn't like that I said well hang on a second you know and now we've got this you know this unrip and indigenous argument and all of that going on. I Well, hang on a second. You know, when people stand up and do their pepper, they say where their canoe came from. >> Well, if it came from somewhere that's not here, you're not indigenous. >> No, we're not moldy are not indigenous. And Mi are not indigenous people as well. We we came from the South Pacific and I'm not sure where we came from before that, but we're not indigenous people. Well, it's like when we get told about being great navigators. >> Well, a great navigator goes back to where they came from. >> Yeah, they do. They do. And he has stories though, Cam of them coming back and forth, but we've lost that. >> And we've kind of got stuck in this mindset. We need to stay in the same place. >> We were Moldi and Morti were explorers and we don't need to stay in one place. We need to keep exploring. Yeah. >> And we need to keep changing our mindset. We need to bring back that strength of being able to have a mindset of exploring and doing things differently. We don't have to be stuck in this golden age of Moldy. When Captain Cook came over, everything was Katie Pie. It wasn't Katie Pie. We're not in this golden area uh era. And we we can evolve and we can change. I mean evolve. I'm not mean like genetically. I'm talking about culturally we can evolve. >> We need to we can't be stuck. >> You can't be stuck. I mean, if you look at the at the at Great Britain, for example, or or you know, the British Isles, there's been a million different, you know, it's an exaggeration, but you had your your Bretonic um you know, tribes, uh the Canai, the um all various different tribes in various parts of of the UK. And then the Romans came along and uh well, just imposed Roman law. And now we've got Roman Britain, Britannia. Then they sort of waned after three or 400 years and disappeared. And then the Angles and the Saxons and the Judes all came across from from Europe. >> Then you had the the um you know the Vikings. The Vikings, the Normans were actually Vikings, right? They had settled in Normandy. >> Um that they were called Northmen. That's where Norman comes from. They came then came back into the UK with with some from Britany which had actually come from Britain as well. And you've got this conglomeration that merges about, you know, post 1066 uh into this um what what's called English, which was obviously a a amalgamation of um angles uh English and things like that. That's that's where it comes from. There is no British race. It's a conglomeration of everything else. And New Zealand's in the same position. We've got people who have come from everywhere. I was born in Fiji. Um my parents uh were were Kiwis, but they were working in Fiji and their uh parents and grandparents came from Scotland. So we've got Scots, we've got Irish, we've got Pacifica peoples here. Um we've got Maui obviously and we've created a country that has you know Kiwis living in it. Uh some people uh fal about into different places, right? I I find being born in Fiji, I have an affinity with Fiji. Don't know what it is. When I get off the plane, I just feel like I'm at home. It It's a feeling. I I can't describe it any other way. >> Yeah. And you're right. We are doesn't matter where you come from or where your papa, we are all just all Kiwis. And that's what we need to actually start heading back towards. M >> you know I wasn't here through co I was up in the islands and coming back just at the tail end of justinda um I was quite surprised how divided the country >> it was appalling >> it was crazy you know thank thank goodness I wasn't here but coming back to a country that's super divided and obviously there's always been moldy and non moldy but coming back and hearing this language of everyone's a connalizer and all these types of things and parka this and the word parka are getting weaponized. It's just appalling. And we need to bring it back. We need to bring this think about becoming back a prosperous country and putting Kiwis first instead of the neoliberals and the international um parties that want to do whatever they want. We just need to put everything through a Kiwi lens and bring everyone back and saying, "Cool, the country does well, we're all going to do well." And that's what I I'd love to see in New Zealand. We need to get this economic machine going again. And once we get that going and cranking again and we see decent GDP growth, I think a lot of this noise or this culture conversation will just die off. But there's some certain areas that we need to fix. Like we just talked about, you know, Ewin Hapu holding us to to ransom. We need to sort that because this economic machine won't crank if they keep holding us to a ransom. If we get that sorted because Moldi and Noldi in the same boat, Cam, we're just like >> we're just people. >> We're just people. People want to pay the power bill. People want to be able to pay the groceries. I know people who are after paying their grocery bills because they can't afford their power bill. People are struggling to put clothes on their kids' back. And it's not because these people are hardworking Kiwis, too. Working two jobs. Um I know my nephew's staying with me. He's working three jobs and he's working real hard. And and both parents, mom and dad, both working and they're still struggling because the cost of living is so high. And that's a people need to realize that this is a hangover from Labor over three. >> It's not just a hangover from Labor. It's also, you know, I I lump in the National Party in here, right? >> Because there's not many differences between National and Labor. You can put a tissue between the differences of those those two parties. All they really are ever arguing over is how much and how. >> I agree. I agree. That's all they're ever arguing over. It's not. And so when you come to uh you know treaty settlements that was the national party that started that >> right for all the thanks that they get for it which is none. Labour takes all the credit uh and have I think abused the support of Maui for hundreds of forundred years. The existence of the Labor Party has been reliant on a small rump of Maui MPs and that's when you saw first New Zealand first tip that on its end and then then the Maui party and now to party marry Labor is beholden to that that rump whether it's a small party like to party marry now or whether it was New Zealand first back then or whether it's um um the Labour party having it within their own party. They really want those marry seats back. Oh, >> they do. They want them back. >> They think they own them. >> Yeah, they >> And it's condescending. >> Yes, I agree with you. But you're right. National Labor, same thing. But where I was going with it is Labor 20% over three over three terms. And we've had seen that. I don't know what Chris Luxon's even up to. Like he can't even make a decision right now. >> Hipkins Lux. So yeah, I agree. Labour just under Adun. >> Um >> they split the country. They split the country in many different ways, but it was always a us and a them. It was vaccinated and unvaccinated. Maui and >> got a team of for 5 million. >> But we all got to play in a team, but you can't play in that team. >> You can't play in that team because you're not brown enough. But and then you're right. And then Chris Luxon hasn't got leadership skills. So I don't actually I just think national labor are the same thing. And if we're going to continue to vote national labor, okay, this year I'm going to vote this this this this three years. I'm going to vote Labor. Nothing's changed. Now we're going to go national. Nothing's changed. They've had their turn. They had their turn. >> How many times do they do this? >> And that's why I jumped in Uncle Winnie's boat in his walker or M Winnie and Shane Jones because they haven't had a chance. What's the worst thing going to happen? Can we kick the can down the road another three years? But there's actually some >> Yeah, but that is right because let's say New Zealand first gets 20%. Right. >> I think that's possible. >> I think it's really possible, >> right? they get 20% and they're now, you know, have a a bigger say that there's a lot of things that have to fall away after that, right? And and there's some big things that Winston Peters is going to have to deliver if that happens. >> Really big things >> because he has to first of all uh stop the criticism that he gets from National Party people, right? Um, National has harbored a visceral hatred of Winston Peters for more than 30 years, right? It's it's in their DNA. >> And I know, right? Because my father was a president of the National Party. I was deeply involved with the National Party. I'm no longer involved with the National Party. I I I'm ambivalent to their success or failure. I don't literally care. People say to me all the time on my website, "Oh, Cam, you should be doing this for the for the greater good." And I'm sitting here thinking, well, I don't think National is the greater good. >> I think every day is the greater good. >> I think I think that they they are the party of the status quo. >> They never do anything innovative. They just manage the decline a little bit better, >> but it's a decline nonetheless. >> I agree. >> We need to change that. We need to when people say keep the coal in the hole, we need to say you're stupid. We're not listening to you. Goodbye. We're going to dig that coal up. We've got the best coal in the world. >> Oh, I agree. And and you're right. And we got to dig it. And we got to dig more of it. Dig all of it. >> And we got to export it >> until there's none left. >> And on that because we can't just keep exporting our problems overseas, too. This is the thing with the the the Tapati, Moldi, Labor, and and and the Greens and National is they don't want to do anything. And and we have to start mining again in the backyard. We have to stop this not my backyard nonsense. We have to dig. We have to drill. And we have to explore for oil and gas. And we have to bring a prosperous country back. We have to We got so much coal on the west coast of the South Island. And there's people in Oakuckland here in Oakland. >> There's coal that's about 100 kilometers south of here. >> Yeah. In Woo. Um but there's people in Wellington and Oakland in these urban areas saying we don't need to do that. I'll just talk about the West Coast spend a lot of time in the South Island. They're struggling. Always have. Always has. Well, why don't we crank their minds up so they're not struggling? >> Yeah. >> We have the best labor conditions, the best environmental conditions in the South Pacific. And if we don't use our coal here, all they're going to do is use coal somewhere else with poor labor condition and poor environmental conditions. So why don't we do it right here? Why don't we get that royalties? Leave 50% of the royalties in the regions so the regions can be prosperous so they can invest into infrastructure like stock banks, roing three waters, etc. Um, it'll be great for New Zealand, but we have to we have to dig, we have to mine. >> We've got we've got rare earth metals here, >> 36 of them. Yeah, we've got amazing resources offshore. Um, uh, especially in the Great Southern B basin, there's there's vast quantities of oil and gas, >> especially in the southern basin. Yeah. >> Right. Why why are we paying $350 for a liter of diesel when when we've got oil here ourselves? It's ridiculous. >> I agree. >> Um, why are we importing it from from all these places? We've got oil. we we'd have more royal if it wasn't for the retards of the Labour Party saying we're not gonna we're not going to have any more, you know, um expiration. It's virtue signaling nonsense. All of those um you know, wankers in their EVs are all driving around on power that's topped up by Huntley. >> Yeah, they are >> with coal. >> Correct. >> Right. Because if we didn't have Huntley, we wouldn't have a a core base load in New Zealand. >> No. And that's real critical for us as a country. And people don't realize that winds and solar don't give us that base load. We need base load. So we need more Hunley's. We need more hydro. >> And they're just stuck in that ideology of net zero. Yeah. >> And Labor did signal to the signal to the market. And the reason why we're having so much impact now is because they're signaling to the market. It does have an impact. >> But there's this cost of living that you identified earlier as being key. And people are working multiple job jobs to pay the bills, buy food. You know, you go to the supermarket, you buy a one of those brown bags with a few things in it, 100 bucks. How did this happen? >> It's crazy. You know, >> it is. I was just >> It happens because of all the virtue signaling, right? Oh, well, you know, we need to um pay a green dividend. Well, well, that means the customer is paying the green dividend in the increased price of the groceries. Uh, you've got all of this nonsense that's happening of virtue signaling on electrifying this and doing that and it's all cost. >> I laugh because I I love the the Greens saying, "Hey, I got a great policy. We're going to electrify everything." >> Cam, you're not allowed to build anything though. >> Yeah, you can't build a new dam. >> So, just work that out. Work that out. For example, you you go work this out, Cam. We want to electrify everything, but don't go build anything. How you going to do it? We can't do it. And they're just hypocrites. the greens because they did that with the Waha dam in the South Island on the west coast which was a I'll use the word consortium. It might have been a joint venture, but we'll just say consortium between Kitahu Hapu and the West Coast Power Company. I can't don't actually know the name. And the Greens, it's been pushed through fast trap. The Greens tried to get it taken out because there's a little frog or something. >> Little frog, but don't the Greens uphold the treaty? >> So, if you're all about moldy rights and Katahu want to actually build a dam because it was a consortium. It wasn't >> Why are you declining moldy rights? What's more important to the or the frog? They're hypocrites. This is the thing that people don't need to start waking up to the left is they're a bunch of hypocrites. They they want to tell us what the news is, how to think about the news, and if we don't agree with it, we're a bunch of racists and bunch of bigots >> and you need to be silenced. >> You need to be silenced. And I'm just tired of that nonsense. And they need to be called out. There's this hypocrisy of we want to build we won't electrify we want to electrify every single item but we can't build anything and then we uphold the treaty but Moldi are not let to build the dam. Well, it it goes it's worse than that though, right? They want to electrify everything, right? Chris Bishop signed up to this, right? He may as well be in the Green Party. >> What I'm saying? Totally. >> Chris Bishop says, "Oh, no. I drive an electric car." >> Have you ever tried to buy an electric car? No. >> Right. They're horrendously expensive, even for a one. >> They don't go very far. Even for a one. >> Uh, and then if you own it a couple of years, you've now got a boat anchor because no one wants to buy it off you. No, they don't. Right. And on top of that, they're saying, "Oh, we need more. We need more electric cars." Well, there's already, you know, almost brownouts that are happening in suburbs in Oakuckland when everyone drives home with the Tesla and plugs it in, right? Because we haven't upgraded the infrastructure to take all of these cars uh and you're going to start seeing um transformer fires. You know, those green boxes that you see on the side of the road, right? They're all full of oil, those things. It's how they keep the electricity cool. If it gets overheated because of the draw down, it will catch fire. >> Yeah, it will. Yes. >> And I was told this a number of years ago by an electrical engineer saying, "Well, it's all well and good to have electric cars, but we haven't got any more production. We've got a a a single cable running between the North Island and the South Island. We built most of the dams in the South Island, so we have to import the power to the North Island, but it's at capacity. You can't shove more power through the cable. >> You can't. >> So, you need to b build another cable. Well, that's going to cost the thick end of $2 billion. >> And no one's thinking about this stuff while they're all out there saying you need to drive electric cars. Yeah. They drive around in a cloud of smug. Well, they do. And they're stuck in the ideology of like these electric vehicles. Like >> they're boat tankers. >> They're not doing anything for the environment. They're not. We have we and when you look at the full this why I think a bunch of hypocrites when you look at the full supply chain there's slave labor in there and there's poor environmental condition all we're doing every time we drive electric vehicle we export our issues overseas the best things >> to Congo or to Mongolia or you know just destroying the environment in those countries >> 100% so we can feel good in Oakland Wellington look at me >> I'm driving an electric vehicle but >> the best thing for us to do is to stop that uh net zero nonsense and just get back digging oil and gas. They're the fundamental princ principles for to build a prosperous country. And who cares around um a carbon footprint? >> I don't >> I don't at all larger one as possible. >> Why do we why do we care when we got um India, Brazil, US and China producing so much more? We should focus on real environmental impacts. Why don't we focus on >> especially the hypocrisy the hypocrites on the green on the greens is why are you buying all these shampoos or body washes with microplastics in it? Why don't we get rid of microplastics from our waterways? That's something that we can actually control. >> And the great thing about waterways is they're constantly being flushed out. Yeah. They are right. So if you say right no more microlastics in New Zealand, >> it won't take very long before that's all flushed out. >> Yeah. And I'm not I'm just making as a broad statement, but you know, like there's actually real environmental things that we can do. Like I live in the local >> clean water, clean air. >> Yeah. Clean air and clean water. Why don't we focus on that? So why don't we have a target instead of net zero, why don't we have a target to say by 2050 we want a certain percent of our waterways so clean that you can swim in them with not worrying about >> you can drink them. >> Drink them. Why don't we have a I don't know just a >> Well, you take Rooua for example, Lake Roou shallow lake. It is very shallow. >> Even the deepest part is not that deep when you compare it to Tabo, right? >> But it has a nitrate problem. It has a nitrate problem because all the farmland around all the streams that are feeding into Lake Rooua, which then goes into Lake Rotoiti, which then goes down the Toway River, right? But they've got nitrate levels that are causing algo blooms and and affecting everything else. If you can stop that, that's an environmental win that everybody wins on. >> Agree. >> Right. Because the farmers don't have to do that much. >> No, they don't. >> They just have to fence off the waterways um and have uh plants there that love nitrates to suck it all up. And you know, conveniently, Flax is very good at doing that. >> Yeah. And not tax them to do it. >> Yeah. >> Incentivize them to do it. Maybe give them a tax break to do it as well. We have to be smart in this place. But I I'm sick of this net zero ideology of us feeling good where we can actually make real changes. >> It's not feeling good. It's feeling smug. >> Yeah. Like they're saying, smug. >> They're feeling smug. You know, I'm a green. I I vote green. You know, I'm I'm smug. >> Yeah. I don't I haven't met too many working-class people who vote >> green. >> Green. >> No. It's all mostly women. >> Um and >> live in the leafy suburbs. >> And either you're right or they go to university. Yeah. >> And they're not working yet obviously >> or they're 12 >> or they're 12 or they are very ultra wealthy. >> Yeah. >> It's not the working class Kiwi who are voting for them. That's for sure. >> No, that's right. >> Because you know we just have to get back to these fundamentals to build a prosperous country. I keep going back to it because I'm a construction worker and I you know it in the 50s we were one of the best >> well we built amazing projects in >> the 50s 60s built everything. >> Look at Manipuri right now. Okay. We had to import some Italians to do that. But that was a skill level that we could have, you know, built on. Um because if it works for Manipuri, why doesn't it work somewhere else, you know, on a similar basis? >> And our economic powerhouse was strong too in the 50s. So why can't we just go back to building the fundamentals that build a strong economy? We don't have to um lower baseline power to to build iPhones here because we're not we're not going to do that. But we have great joinerary businesses and we have businesses closing across the mutu across the country because the power is too expensive. We don't compete with Southeast Asia and China with labor. >> We can't we don't with labor. It's with power. >> So we need to lower that baseline power >> or quality. >> Or quality. >> Yeah. You got to have better quality product. >> Um you know the Chinese are the world's best at doing everything 80 85% correct. you know that you accept the poor quality because of the low price. And that that's what I found with Kiwis generally, right? We we're industrious. >> We're innovative. I mean, look at the things that Kiwis have invented, you know, and where's that innovation happening now, you know? It's it's been smothered. It's been killed off. >> It's getting killed off through regulations, red tape, the bureaucracy in New Zealand. >> But you'd know this. You you're working for a roing company, infrastructure company, right? 10 years ago, right? I bet you you had about 10% of the road cones you've got now. >> Yeah. >> Or even less. So on that road makes up probably around 15% of the tender. >> Yeah. >> 15% PNG. So your your overheads around 12%. Yeah. >> And the rest is pure cost. >> So we actually have to and also there's so much environmental stuff that we have to jump through. >> Yeah. So the road itself is actually cheap to make. It is >> cheap. Yeah. >> Right. And we make cheap roads because we do hot mix. >> Yeah. We do great we do great roads. >> Yeah. When when they're done properly, right? Um >> but the actual base course, the midcourse, the the the rollers and everything like that that go and the hot mix that goes into it and the curving and all that. That's what you're saying 15%. >> And the rest is compliance. >> Compliance. Yeah. 15% for traffic compliance. usually about 5% for environmental and then you got your overheads and the rest is your your pure to build your yeah >> to your road or your bridge. See I look at I I live in Fun Praa right so I've been I've lived up there for seven years till 2021 then had a few years living other places I'm back living in FAR and I've talked about this new tollway right it's not a very long distance it's about five or six kilometers it's now into year six of building it and I look at also the the project that was started to uh build a busway to extend a busway from constellation drive to Otiha Valley which is 4 kilometers took six years to do it and they what they've done uh in that six years is they've built there's two lanes either way to Otihar Valley then there's five lanes either way for four kilometers and then from constellation again it's two lanes each way until you get to Takapuna Okay. >> All they did is move the tail back 4 km closer to the city. >> The traffic's still the same. >> Still the same. Yeah. >> Right. >> They just changed the bottleneck somewhere else. >> And you look at some of the infrastructure projects like the at Fong Praa they built a bus station there an interchange and a very tiny car park. And then a year later then that was that was full. All the streets around it were full. Oh, we better extend the car park. They extended the car park. It's still a onelevel car park. It's full. You can't get any. So, they're encouraging people to take the bus, but they're not encouraging people to park their car. >> Yeah. Seen that, >> right? So, why didn't they build a three-story car park? >> Oh, it's a great question. >> It would have cost exactly the same it like upfront cost was higher. Sure. But it you wouldn't have had to have built a car park there for 10 years. >> Yeah. yarn up front cost is higher, but the overall your cost is lower because we're not building later on with a more expensive price tag. And this is where I've mentioned it a few times like we have to bring back that think big you know I say let's think big again like we do I'm not talking about true I mean we have to think big we have to think this is the problem we keep thinking >> small >> small we keep thinking in these election cycles okay we're going to do this in infrastructure we're going to do this um to get the economic machine cranking again we actually got to think >> 12 you know 24 years out out and go what we need to do is actually this is a strategic plan for New Zealand and this is what we got to start building because we don't have that thought process. Imagine if we didn't have that think big era. We wouldn't have >> everyone criticized Muloon at the time because it was eye watering debt that we got into right to do it. But all those people driving around in a cloud of smug driving around in a cloud of smug powered by think big which they opposed. >> Yeah. >> They opposed the the high dam at Clyde, >> right? They they opposed Monteneui. They opposed the expansion of Marsden Point. They opposed the expansion of Huntley. >> Mhm. >> Right. Those are all think big projects. >> 100%. Imagine if they weren't built. Where would it be? >> We'd be $10 a liter. We'd be paying for fuel like the Pacific Islands pay for fuel. >> Yeah. And you'd have you probably have more brown outs. It probably have, you know, big brown outs and probably have a situation like Fiji where they banned all their public servants. uh service people um members of parliament flying overseas because they don't have any money left in the budget because majority of their fuel uh sorry their power is diesel generation >> diesel generation which is ridiculous in a country that's got masses of coconuts. >> Yep. And they got big like you look at the Satoka River too. >> Yep. >> And the Loka River up >> massive powerful rivers. >> Yeah. Upstream you can have dams and they are looking at that but >> but they should have looked at that 50 years ago. >> Yeah. And that's where New Zealand needs to start looking back into where do we want to actually be as a country. >> Well, we're in the Pacific. Yeah. That's what Winston Peters talks about that we're in the Pacific and we need to be better neighbors. >> Instead, what we do is we say, "Oh, no. We don't like who your government is, so we're going to put restrictions on you." >> Yeah, we shouldn't do that. >> We should never have done that. Um, we we we lecture them and and are condescending towards Pacific nations. Um, Australia is worse, right? Both of New Zealand and Australia could could create a barrier to Chinese investment in the Pacific by being better neighbors. >> I agree. >> Is do we really want the Chinese to, you know, basically take over small Pacific nations because that's essentially what they're doing. >> Well, they are doing that, >> right? You've worked up in in in Fiji and in the islands. A lot of the contracts for roading and things like that especially in Fiji were were now they're now done by Chinese companies. >> Yeah. So all the international funding like you go world bank and ADB majority of the people delivering networks to China rail five and four which is all backed by the Chinese government you know they all own a percentage of these private >> they're CCP controlled companies. >> Yeah that's what they do and um and they say soft power as well. So they they are building things in the Cook Island right now. They're building things in Fiji and we do need to be better neighbors and like what I've learned up in the islands too is it's just how you present yourself and we are condescending to our island nations and we need to talk let's not talk down let's talk up you know what I mean like let's empower our Pacific people we need to have a big geopolitical footprint in the South Pacific that needs to be our backyard we need that for security >> we do And and we're naive. And people are naive to think that China doesn't want to play down here. >> Oh, they do. >> They want to They We feed 40 million people. >> That's what they say. New Zealand feeds 40 million people. Why wouldn't they want New Zealand? And we'd be naive to think their one of their plans over the next 100 years is to take more land. You know, the thing is if the Chinese uh the PLA and the PLN PL Navy and the Army decided that they were going to invade New Zealand, be all over in >> they didn't they have a situation where one of the Navy boats had to get called in by the Chinese boat a year ago, a little less the Quantis flight seen it. >> Yeah. >> And the Australian Defense Force didn't actually know it was there. >> Yeah. >> It's unreal. >> They're sailing down the Tasman Sea. >> Yeah. It's unreal. Yeah. >> And they're they're postpuring posturing towards us to Australians and to the Kiwis. And we don't need to invest a lot of money. We just need that um soft power and that that >> expertise >> expertise and um that ability to work with them instead of trying to >> talk down to them. >> See, I know in Fiji um when after B Maram had his had his coups basically to eliminate racism, right? You had you had you had had uh it's now called Sadelpa. They were in government in Garisay's government and they were basically nationalizing things, taking things off off uh corporates, taking things off um Indians and preferring uh it talai over um over everybody else. And B may said, "No, no, we're all Fijians and got rid of the government." And what we did is instead of saying, "Well, we didn't really like what you did, but how can we help you move forward from this coup culture?" No, instead we put a big wall up. And so, here's Bonnie Maramuse trying to help his country uh faced with the prospect of Australia and New Zealand boycotting them, uh, putting in place sanctions, not allowed to travel here. um all sorts of things like that. And along come the Chinese and the Indians who don't care about things like what your government is. I mean in China they're they're a dictatorship and in India it's a democracy but kind of not. They don't care. So well how can we help you? Because they know that they they can't go anywhere else. And so now you've got all the Chinese moving in. They built a second cement factory to compete with the local cement factory. They're starting to build some highrises in SUV and things like that. And then started taking all the bids and extending the the runway at Suba and building a new all of these infrastructure projects. And then people look at it and go, "Oh, well, they're actually nice." Whereas we're sitting there going tutt. We don't like how you governed. >> It's an interesting one. Like the coup culture is not great, but the the the goal was to ensure safety for all Fijians. >> Yeah, >> there's some crazy stuff going on towards the Indo Fijians at that time and he made the right decision for his country and we should have said like you just said, cool not a big fan is a coup, but how do we how do we engage and actually what you've done here is is a great thing and we need to support you. >> Yeah. How can we help you write your constitution? How can we how can we put in place um things that will balances that will foster democracy to move away from military control to um democracy and having you know series of elections. >> Now Fiji's had three elections now with no coups. That's good, but it's still fragile because the military is one of the largest earners of of foreign currency in Fiji. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> I didn't know that. >> Um the the two largest um income earners for Fiji are remittances, right, from people who are Fijian, who live in Australia, New Zealand, all around. There's a lot in the UK as well. Sending back remittances to their family, right? That's one that's the biggest income earner for Fiji. And the second biggest is renting out their soldiers to the United Nations. >> Oh, yeah. Yes, I knew about that one. Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah, sorry. I knew about that. Yes. >> But there there's a large contingent of Fijian soldiers that are in the British Army. >> All right. >> Yes, there is. Yes. >> Huge. And I contacted um one of them actually when I was up in Fiji for a significant amount of time. I con tried to find the family when we lived in Fiji. We had we had a a house a house girl doing the housework and her brother and um I wanted to make contact with them. You know that when I went back to Fiji and I so I put it out on the coconut wireless. That's what they call it in Fiji. Um within 24 hours we had located relatives of of those two. They were they had both passed and um uh I got all the history and then one of these relatives was in the British army and so I had a Facebook you know Facebook chat video call with him and heard all the story of how they had been brought up and everything and the difference that working for mom and dad had made to their lives. >> Oh, really? And I I was kind of really touched by that that because dad used to take um take uh what was his name? Um uh Filimona Phillip um to school every morning, you know, in his car. Um and and uh and Eta uh she um never married um and and Filimony looked after her until she passed. But he he went to school um got his qualifications and everything. Then worked in post and telegraph and ended up living in a post and telegraph house out by the rifle range for the army looking after the infrastructure for radio and and transmission and stuff like that. And then his son ended up in the British Army. That's the guy I was talking to. >> What was your dad doing over there? >> Uh, he was the chief accountant for the Fiji Development Bank. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> Oh, cool. That's pretty cool. >> Yeah. >> So, um, >> how long he's based over there for? >> Uh, just a couple of years. >> Um, but yeah, I was born there. It's probably why I've got, you know, size 12 wide feet cuz I don't think I wore shoes or anything for the first couple of years of my life. So, my feet just >> Yeah. No. Yeah, I understand. say my um son little Billy, we brought him out back here for to um be born, but we obviously he was there in Fiji for about four years and he just thinks >> he had massive feet now. >> Yeah, he's got wide feet. He thought he was Fiji and um we had a nanny and a cleaner as well and >> she had kids and my faro is quite oh no actually you can just come live with us and >> yeah that's how mom and dad were. >> Yeah, I just we just loved it and then the kids would go back to their village and stuff like that. I just love the Fijian culture and how beautiful it is. like they're real open like it's real it's quite you walk around New Zealand and people like oh good day how you going >> it's just like a a gesture and but when Fijian ask you oh how you going they actually they mean it and >> I remember when the wife excuse me >> um came back to New Zealand for a bit um cuz little Billy was having some health issues and the the ladies in the office were like cooking me food and just it's just real cool you can't it's hard to describe but the feeling is so amazing. >> It is like if you go on holiday and just watch, right? You go to Fiji, we I last year I went for 10day holiday um to Tokariki Island which is you know um off uh often you're out there bit further an hour in the boat and all the people who work in the hotel they either live on the island or they live on the island across >> Yeah. >> Right. Um, and uh, there's, you know, a lot of parents there had little kids and if they were uptight or anything, they didn't really, it didn't really work. But the parents that were more uh, open with other people picking up their kids and things like that. Well, these PGs would just pick the kid would be crying. They go, "Come, come, come." And they picked them up and and they stopped crying straight away. >> Yeah, you're right. It's >> It's unbelievable. They just pick up the kid who's crying and beside himself and red in the face and tears streaming. They pick the kid up, instant silence. >> Oh, that just such a great culture. I just I'm shocked at how loving they are, you know, and then it's the same thing you see here in New Zealand. A lot of the political aspects of New Zealand and Fiji is quite the same. They drive the vision, but when you actually talking to everyday Fijians and Indoians and Fijians, they just get on so great. And there's it's probably a little bit different in SU but in the western division it was great and Chloe >> when you go to La Sata places like that it's about 5050. It is right Indians and and andai. >> Yeah. And it's amazing too like the so many of them have got like to speak three languages or two languages cuz they talk the >> Hindi English and and and Fijian. >> Yeah. And some of them have the fourth because they have their own dialect plus the national dialect as well. So it's real real real cool. Like I just my memories of Fiji is just amazing people, amazing Indo-Jians and amazing Fijians and I just think New Zealand's for soft power should do more for Fiji, Tonga and Samoa and Collins because they're great people and the people we have um who descended from Fiji and all these other islands, they're great citizens of New Zealand too. And look, we're a Pacific country and we should just just do more. E >> yeah, I I 100% agree with that. And we got to stop this talking down. Something I learned in Fiji very quick when I was dealing with government officials over there is don't do any talking. Have a premeating with your team and let them do all the talking because I don't want any kyalangi park what you want to call it foreigner kyalangi telling them what to do. >> Yeah. See I'm lucky is they look at me and they think I'm a kyalangi. Yeah. Right. >> But I'm actually a kyi. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, um I try and get it out as soon as I can that I'm I'm from here. >> Yeah. >> I understand. >> Yeah. My two from another relationship, my two other boys, >> Awanui and um and uh their fe their mom's Fijian. So, they're from um Ria just just on the other side of Su on the on the west. Well, the leader of the used to be the leader of the opposition uh road to Mumu Kipa. She's she's from Riawa, right? But when I was at the holiday place, I said to one of the um one of the ladies that was working there, I said, "Oh, where are you from?" She said, "I'm from Riwa." And then I said, "Oh, so your your chief is Roumipa." Said, "How do you know this?" Well, for Fiji, I know this >> cuz I asked her if we could get some rea butter and she >> Oh, yeah. I was about to say that. Yeah, cuz it's big dairy aspect. >> But but the but you I mean you've tried rea >> I love it. E it's real good. It's like that that kiwi butter of like the ' 90s. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like all the all the bad stuff they reckon still in there. And heaps of salt. >> Yeah. It's the most amazing bar. I said I said we what's your butter here as mostly anchor said get some rea butter. Oh, how do you know? >> Rea butter's good. E >> yeah, it's like the hot bread shops, too. >> Yes. Oh, yeah. They're real good. The red ones. Yeah, the red. >> Yeah, the red ones. Yeah. And pie. They made brilliant pies. Good pies. >> That teach a few people in New Zealand how to make a pie. >> Um but that was See, that was all mostly Fijian's worked in those hot bread shops. She's passed away now. That lady that that owned that, she made moon beams out of it. It's a great they honestly I just can't stress enough. Such a great country, great people. Like I think it's amazing Fiji. >> Well, there's a lot of things that we could learn from Fiji. Um and and from, you know, uh By Marmer himself. I mean, I I used to have great conversations with him um about his what drove him, you know, to do what he did and why he did that. And he still believes in those things. you know, they they just stayed in power for too long and and lost focus like all politicians. >> Yeah, they did. >> But I think that that what they did is create a constitution that brought in equality and didn't uh empower separatism. >> Yes. >> Um not even um not even the current government has tried to roll that back. >> No, they haven't. I'm quite surprised. >> I I thought they might. I I thought that Rambuka would try and roll that back because, you know, he he did some pretty bad things. >> He did when he >> his two coups were >> Yeah, they're pretty bad. >> Pretty bad. Right. And they were designed to cement power with with the um with it. >> But then in the election that that got him elected, he went around and apologized to people. he went in and um engaged in Talanoa, you know, and and made them understand that what he did was wrong and he hasn't rolled it back and I I thought he might but >> yeah, I thought he would do the same thing because Booker of old used to be quite a strong present man and he hasn't. I think the downfall of Frank too is the the aspects >> it was the AG that was the downfall of Frank. Yes, I was about to say that we had so many times where the AG's I don't know if they're affiliated with him, but they said they were affiliated with him. No, they were affiliated with him. I don't know why I'm lying. They were affiliated with him trying to extort you for cash for projects for being consultants over there and so many times where you get threatened to be deported. I used to carry my passport with me because I thought I'd get deported. Um and that was a downfall because there was a lot of corruption in that space and that was a downfall of Frank because Frank was a very much a visionary man and there are some similar from Winston Peters and Frank and I'm not talking about coup aspects and stuff. I'm talking about visionary of one nation one people because Frank believes that. >> Yes he does. believes that and he and he >> and people forget though that you know in in one of the in in George Spates's coup >> um they tried to kill um Frank B they did and he managed to get into a drainage ditch at the Victoria barracks and >> and yeah up and he went up the >> back hills and then got his troops together >> and came around and put the put the coup down. >> Yeah. Um, and that was an actual shooting coup, >> right? George Spade. >> Yeah, it was. Yes. >> Crazy. You had some some bent army people uh and actually shot people. >> Um, every other coup in Fiji, they don't even have the magazines in the rifles. >> No, no, no, no, they don't. >> But, um, but yeah, I think we could we could learn a lot from Fiji and some of the things they did, particularly around the Constitution. Um, but the problem that I've always talked about that New Zealand has is we've never had a revolution. Right? Usually constitutions happen because of a revolution or because of an uprising or because of things like that, right? There's a drive of the US Constitution formed as as they seeded themselves from British control, fought themselves out of British control. >> We've never had that. >> Do you think we need it? No, I don't really want to have that. >> Do you think we need to head towards a republic? >> Um, yes, but Helen Clark needs to die first. >> It sounds crash, but um I don't want to have a republic with a with a president where the person who's appointed as president is a political favorite or or or whatever. And I always said that um Jim Bulier and Helen Clark both need to pass. Yeah, >> because otherwise one team will say, "Oh, this guy should be because he was prime minister for 9 years and he'd make a good president." I don't want Helen Clark as a president. I don't want her anywhere near. >> So, you believe in a republic similar to Fiji where there's the the president who's more of a a figurehead and then the prime minister. >> Yeah, I think something like that. >> So, no. Okay. No, >> but we need to get rid of like the the problem actually preventing that happening in New Zealand is the treaty, >> right? and Mari want to keep clinging to the crown, right? For for whatever reason, right? I don't know why. I think most New Zealanders don't care, but Maui do. And I think that's what's stopping us moving towards a republic eventually. >> I think you're right. I think um the people put up a hor of a fight, but we do need to eventually head towards where there's some a constitution of New Zealand where we have fundamental rights given to us by your creator, whatever your god is. >> Well, you you look at the Bill of Rights Act, right? That should be the primary piece of legislation in New Zealand, >> but it's not. >> It's not. and the and governments of the day left and right doesn't matter completely ignored the bill of rights um justindra completely ignored the bill of rights particularly around medical interventions and things like that >> yep and and keeping Kiwis out of the country >> y all of that right and there was no consequences for that ultimately and there's still people in New Zealand who hold her up as being one of the best prime ministers we've ever had >> and destroying the country maybe Yeah. >> And do you do you think there needs to be another inquiry around the co? >> I don't think inquiries will help. >> All right. It's just a the system will prevent it. Right. Just like the system has prevented the co inquiry >> getting to the bottom of what actually happened and that's why Winston forced the second one. But again, the system through the processes that having the hearings and it takes so long. >> We're now six years down the track, >> right? Seven years down the track. No one cares anymore. Some of us do, those who fought, those who who who stood up and said, "No, this is wrong. We're we're not going down this path." You know, this is totalitarianism. We were laughed and and mocked and and >> called the unvaccinated. >> Yeah. called the unclean and everything else, right? River of filth and everything else. We remember those politicians that did that. Most of them are gone now. So, how do you think in New Zealand democracy we have more accountability so that doesn't happen in the future? What's your thoughts on that? Like, >> well, this again, it's the system like there's there's a we think that we vote when we vote every 3 years that we we can change the government. We're not actually changing the government. What we're changing is the managers of the government. Because underneath the politicians is this massive level of civil service that's there >> that is still there no matter who the government is of the day and they do what they do. I mean I've seen uh like in Ministry of Health for example, this is a real example. They had um a national government that didn't wanted to regulate vapes or um wanted to didn't want to be as punitive on cigarette smoking. And so they just wait and then they get a Labor government in whose ministers are either dim or uh uh unable to have a cogent argument over something. And they then put in recommendations to the minister that we do this, this, this, and this. And they do crazy things like they don't they can't find a reason, a medical reason to ban vapes. But they don't want the vapes to happen because in their world, in the Ministry of Health and in the lobbyists that are reliant on anti-tobacco funding to, you know, uh, help people get off smoking. They see vapes as a replacement for cigarettes. And that means the tobacco company's still going to make a profit. So therefore it's bad even though it might be 90% better as a product. Right? So they conjure up ways to make it look bad. And so they what they did under Aisha Verero as the health minister is did this work stream that said oh what we'll do is we'll ban um uh vapes that don't have a removable battery because if they throw it out and it goes in a rubbish bin it could start a fire. That was the logic. Right now, what they did is pass a law to to do that. But the unintended consequences of that law meant that we had breached the China free trade agreement. >> Oh, really? >> It meant that anything that has a non-replaceable battery, not just a vape, was also captured by the law. So that meant cell phones, laptops, and all of those sorts of things. And so the next government came in and had to overturn that law. and the health lobbyists all came out and said, "Oh, this is, you know, caving into tobacco lobbyists." And right, but it was all done uh outside of the government because Asia Ver just rubber stamped it, oh yes, no, we need to stop vaping. Really? So, we want people to keep smoking. It's nuts. >> It's totally nuts. So, so that that level of government, the swamp, the blob that exists, until we can work out how to get control of that, changing the government every 3 years isn't going to change anything. >> Yeah. Know, you're right. I asked a question of um a couple of New Zealand First people like their policy has been to push through everyone getting treated the same >> in the health sector. Correct. >> Yeah. Um, and I got a friend of mine, what's my wife's friend, our friend, she's training to be a nurse, and they're still getting trained. They need to prioritize molding. >> So, they just ignore. So, how do we get that? I understand what you're saying and I agree with you. So, it's how do we get accountability that public service they work for us? >> See, I think we for the elected government. So, how do we implement that and deliver that? >> I think the only way that we can do that is to have a quai US system, right? where the president is elected, >> every member of his cabinet is not elected. He appoints them, right? So, uh Pete Hick says there's the minister of war, >> right? Or the the the war secretary. >> Yeah. >> And defense and everything under defense comes under his control and he exerts the the president's wishes onto his department and says, "If you're not going to do this, will you be replaced?" And they get rid of people. But see, we've got like people like, you know, Brian Roach and various different other, you know, Mandarins that are working in this blob. They never change. They go from one highowered job to the next one to the next one and then, oh, we made a bit of a mistake there. We'll slip back into that level and then couple of years later, we'll be back in that level. They never change. They never get sacked. They're never held accountable. They're the ones that we need to hold account, not the politicians. >> Yeah, I agree with that. But isn't that the whole purpose of a ministry as a minister? >> Well, that's what I would have thought >> the ministry is supposed to be. So, we got the the legislated in the house, but also we got the the ministers are supposed to be the executives. So, we already have that quasi system already. So, we need to empower the ministers to deliver. Well, I don't know if we probably already got the powers in place. Do we just need >> the problem leaders in place? >> There's a separation of power in these too, isn't there? >> There is. But the the problem is that a lot of the ministers like like this is what I always say to people about about politics. Why are you expecting the minister to come up with the answers? They don't know. >> Like honestly, does Nicola Willis know anything about accounting? >> No. >> No. No. >> Right. So why have we got somebody there who's going to be the Minister of Finance who doesn't know anything about accounting? because she relies on her advisers. You see the problem? They're always relying on their adviserss. And you know what? The advisers that are in Nicola Willis's office were in Grant Robertson's office. >> You're so right there. It's quite interesting. And when you go against the advisor, the advice of your advisor, >> then it's bad news. >> And then it's bad news in the media. >> Right. But but as Winston always says, well, that was the ministry's advice. I don't agree with it. >> Yeah. I like that. So right and that's where we probably I don't think you actually need to have the skill sets to be to be a finance manager to the minister sorry to to deliver that we just need people who actually want to deliver it and actually we need to have a system where we're actually looking at our advice advisors and saying are they the right ones to deliver this policy for us because they're elected we got elected officials they sit in the house then we have their executive side the ministries and they need to be able to deliver on what they run on. You might not like what they but they're in power. That's democracy. >> See, we don't have a neutral civil service. >> No, we don't. Oh, no, we don't. >> That is the problem. >> No, that they are. >> So, take the PSA, right? The PSA says that Nicola Willis's announcement they're going to cut 8,700 jobs, >> right, is 14% >> is bad, >> right? I don't think it's anywhere near enough, >> but the PSA has come out and said it's bad. Four years ago, Christopher Hipkins announced a a reset and that they were going to need a reduction in this in this count of civil servants and the PSA said, "Oh, well, times are tough. You know, we're just going to all have to do our bit." It's the same organization, right, led by the same guy who also happens to be a Labor candidate, and we've got two different messages coming from them. The problem is not the politicians. The problem is the blob. >> Yep. It is. It's that swamp. >> Yep. >> And we need someone to drain the swamp. >> We need to have the will as a country as well. Like, do we actually want to change or we just want to keep kicking the can down the road. >> See, see, Labour's answer is, oh, we need to have more civil servants, right? They added 40,000 civil servants in their six years. 40,000. Did the services get better? >> No. Did did the services become cheaper? >> No. Cost went up. >> Cost went up. >> Taxpayers paid. Services got worse and more divide happened too. We set up organization like I don't know what the right term was but moldy health. >> Did moldy health get any better? >> Far aura. >> Yeah. Did it get any better for moldy? No. No. Got it got the same probably even worse. >> But again they say oh the health system is racist towards Maui. >> No it's not. And you go and you say okay so can you give me an example >> crickets >> um moldy are over representative in >> in smoking >> smoking that's an individual's choice to >> I I like a cigar like you I know it's not great for my health >> no actually cigars you can have one to two a day the FDA in the United States has done peer-reviewed studies one to two cigars a day is negligible impact on your >> Can you make sure this was on the podcast Ray My wife Rayan, did you hear that? I'm not two cigars a day. Also, >> she complaining I'm having four a week. >> Also, cigars help build because they're very high in nicotine. Nicotine is not a problem. It's a good >> It's really good. Nicotine actually helps >> helps neuroplasticity, >> but it also increases your testosterone and and when the more testosterone you have, you have better men, stronger men. Not just physically strong, but your mentally strong. >> Not these weak whoopsies that we see protesting everywhere. It's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. >> Well, no, it's true. You know, strong men um create strong countries. >> Yeah. And then weak men >> Yeah. weak men get what we've got. >> Well, that's what we need more of, too. And that's I go back to the economic thing. If we have a strong economic side of things, we have strong men. Men, we have strong families. Men stick around when they're I say this all the time like men stick around when when things are good. you know, they when they feel not not when it's good, but you know, when you can provide, you stick around. You're comfortable. Hey, I can provide for my family. I feel real good. I'm going to make real good choices in my life. When we don't have a good economic um um situations in New Zealand, it's easy for men to run away because they don't feel good about themselves. And that's a is a personal choice. But if we can get the economic machine, >> it's a societal choice as well, right? Because we've got society the same way that society is beating up on anyone who's not married, right? And then eventually they run away. They go, "I don't want to listen to this anymore." Correct. Right. And if you tell uh anybody, man or woman, it doesn't matter, that they're no good, that they're helpless, that they're useless, that you you're a screw up, >> guess what? They'll leave. >> They will, >> right? They'll either leave or they'll become self-fulfilling in that. >> Yeah, they don't. >> And this is the problem that I have with the Labor Party in particular, always telling Maui that they're feeble, right? you're feeble-minded, you need to wrap around services, you you you you know, you need to recover from the hurt. You all of this stuff is telling Maui from a from a political party that you're not enough. >> You're inferior, condescending, >> and so you need to be looked after. >> Yeah. So, you're not you're not educated. You're not smart enough. So, we're going to wrap all these services around. You can't be healthy enough. So, we're going to wrap this special health. Do you know what? You're not politically smart enough. >> So, you need to vote Labor. >> No, you need to vote Labor, but you also need to be on the moldy role as well. >> Yes. >> They just talk down to Moldi. They do. It's a condescending. >> But the National Party's not much better either. No, they're not. >> Cuz I remember having a discussion with Tony Roy once in the '9s and I said, "We should just get rid of the Maui seats." He said, "Oh, oh, no way. He's from the Bay of Plenty, right?" And then uh there was uh Roger Mcclelay there from Rooua. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're not we can't get rid of the marry seats. So, why is that? Well, because then they'll all be on the general role and I'll lose my seat. >> That's what they said. >> Yeah. And um >> that's what they said. >> Yeah. It's interesting because you're right and there's no debate around that. and they one party thinks that we're inferior and the other one the other ones are scared because we'll come on the general um and vote them out and Mlan it's interesting on because that's Todd's father, isn't it? >> Todd's father. Yeah. >> So look at it. They're just career politicians. >> Yeah. >> What have they actually done? >> Well, this is the problem that we have. There was a time when Labour ministers actually worked on the tools >> and they did the mahi. They did the work. >> They did the work. Right. There was if you look back at post World War II, a lot of the ministers that we had were, you know, officers in the army or or, you know, had been and done all of those sorts of things. They had been men being men. >> Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not great at the labor story. >> Started on the West Coast, was it? The labor movement >> in Blackboard. >> Look how far they gone. Do they represent miners? >> No. >> Do they represent construction workers? I don't think they do. I think they just represent the elites. >> They don't achieve and this is not a n a target at labor because national is just as bad. >> They're just as bad. >> They don't like who's in there who's actually done a hard day's work. >> Not many if any. >> You know, Winston's been in there for a long time, but he's actually come from a hard background. >> I was listening to a speech the other day. I didn't realize his family lived in a tent before he was born. And prior to that, they had 10 kids in a two-bedroom place. Rode a horse to school, I'm pretty sure. >> Yep. >> That's hard work. But then you look at Chloe. >> Yeah. >> She's had what owned a cafe. >> Yeah. >> And then you look at Chris Hipkins. Has Chris Hipkins actually had a real job? >> No. >> She went from university political and university went into >> student union >> student union and then straight to Wellington as a >> Yeah. Something like that. >> Civil servant or something like that. >> Many of them are like that. you know, they're they're just career politicians. >> And this is where I come from is like if we actually want a change in the political stuff, it's not just that blob we talked about, that swamp we talked about. We actually need to change the political class as well. And we actually >> But the political class are actors. >> Oh, they are. >> I'll give you an example, right? What are we six months out from the election? >> Yes. >> Right. >> Anytime now, you're going to see a picture of Todd Mcclelay with a pig on his back. >> Oh, really? He does it every election cycle. All right. Now, I've been hunting with Todd. All right. And we've shot a couple of deer and things like he does do it, but he doesn't do it very often. Um but he but always before the election, there's always him, you know, cutting out a beast or something like that. He's actually shot it. >> Yeah. >> Right. But um it's it's a show. It's everything's acting. >> But we do need to change that political class. We actually need Kiwis back in charge because I'm not the working class and the working class actually keep this country running. It's the people on the ports. >> Yeah. People who drive trucks on the ports driving >> tanker driver who's up at god knows what half past early. >> The people in the dairy feeding their people. The people in the bakery. They keep this country going. I tell you what, Chris Chris Luxon doesn't keep the country going. This these people, the working class, the everyday Kiwis keep the country going. But we actually need to realize as New Zealanders, we need more everyday Kiwis representing us because these people don't care. >> No. >> Kobe doesn't care. >> Mama doesn't care. >> Chris Hipkins, he doesn't even care about his own kids by the looks of it. Um, and Luxon, he's just >> And Rowy doesn't care. >> No, Ray, he's a different story. I don't think he's he should be put out to pasture. And then Chris Luxton just seems to be an empty shell. >> Yeah, there's no >> dresses very well. He he dresses well, you know, but he seems like a um empty shell. >> Well, he he's never used his hands for work and you can tell that because he's always putting them in his pockets playing pocket billiards. >> Yeah. And what came I've realized too. I've just started posting from February. I think Kiwis just want honesty. >> That's the thing, right? We want authenticity. Like if you listen to Luxon speak and this is a trick that I do, right? been been involved in commentating on politics for more than 20 years. I close my eyes and don't watch the video, right? And you can hear their words without the visual clues of their face. >> Then what you do is you replay it and turn the sound off and then watch the visual clues >> and then you put the two of them together and you can tell when they're lying. You can tell when they're inauthentic. Christopher Luxon is incredibly rehearsed. Uh, and when he is under pressure, he just sticks to his rehearsed lines. And you've seen interviews where he just says, "What I'd say to you is what I'd say to you." Well, what I would say to you is, >> do do you know anyone who says that in real life, right? when you're talking to someone on the tools right behind the truck shoveling um hot mix out to fill up the potholes. Do they say, "Well, what I'd say to you is I'm going to take this pot mix. I'm going to put it in." No, they say, "Oh god, talk to me in 10 minutes, boss. I'm just doing this." >> Yeah. Right. >> Or off once I get this done. Yeah. But that's what Kiwis I started this journey. Like you're right because Kiwis are just sick of getting lied to. Like they just want real leadership that going to tell them the truth. I think the majority of New Zealanders, everyday Kiwis would accept a politician saying we're not going to fix this country in 3 years. >> What we'd like to hear is a politician say sorry occasionally. >> Yeah, I agree. Or just the honest opinion like >> I think any politician in this election saying they're going to fix this country in the next line and won't be six. And now Kiwis >> can are sick of it. And I've just noticed that I've only like I'm just a construction worker. Like they it come from the tools. I just >> Yeah. You know, if you give someone a bit of lip >> that that pick that pick head is coming off the um off the handle. Yep. And you're going to get that handle. >> Yep. And they But they want they want honesty. Yeah. >> They want honesty from their leaders. >> And the construction workers, no different from most New Zealanders. They just want honesty. And what I've realized in this journey as well is, you know, they just want that. They just want that. They're just sick and tired of >> We want plain speakers. Yeah. Not not riddle speakers. >> Yeah. I I had to actually have a conversation with the team, our leadership team. What's today? Tuesday. It was last week, Friday around targeted a audience and then we keep talking in this corporate talk and our team doesn't understand that. And New Zealanders are exactly the same. They don't want to hear these fancy word words. They don't want to hear DUI and this and that and >> we're going to get the country back on track. >> Yeah. >> Is it? >> No. What we got to do is, hey, it's going to take more than three years. The country's in a bad way. >> I need to be honest with you. Country's in a bad way. We've got a lot of debt. >> We've got a lot of debt. However, if we do this and this and this over the next 3 6 9 12 years, we can get back on track. But we need your vote over the next 12 years, not this next three years. It's going to be hard and we're not going to fix it for us. And we're going to stay focused on these things >> on these things. And we're not going to actually fix it for us. You and I can. We're going to fix it for >> Yeah. >> our kids and our great grandkids or grandkids and our great grandkids because that's what Kiwis want to hear because that's that's actually the truth. That's the real deal truth. >> And that is a really good point at which we can wrap up this conversation. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> But but that that is exactly what we need. We need more truth speakers and less PR flimflam merchants. >> Agreed. >> Thank you for coming up from Rooua to talk to me. It's been a real pleasure. >> Thank you for letting me come. It was awesome. I appreciate it. >> Hey now, welcome to the show where the wind's blowing strong and the truth can flow. This is the good oil. Catch a vibe today with Camp Slater leading us all the way from the