The Good Oil Podcast - Episode 32 - Tameem Baraket

Hey now, welcome to the show where the wind's blowing strong and the truth can flow. This is the good oil. Catch a vibe today. >> Welcome to the good oil podcast. Before we get started, let's have a look at what's in the humidor from canos.nz. This cigar is a box press cigar. They're kind of square in the way that they're made. This is the Lora family creed fuete soul Toro. Again, it's a or it's a 5 and 3/4 in cigar. Slightly shorter smoke on it. Uh it's a combination of Mexican, Nicaraguan, and Dominican Republic tobacco. Uh you can get access to these premium quality cigars by joining the Hemingway or Passionados Club at canteros.n. Welcome to the Good Oil podcast and with me this week for episode 32 is Tamim Barakeet from the Centrist. Welcome Tam. >> Thank you. Welcome. >> Everybody's talking about well a lot of people are talking about the Centrist. They're talking about where it came from, who who is behind it, and is it some evil right-wing blog or as Martin Bradley calls you a hate blog. >> I wear that as a badge of honor. >> Yeah, exactly. Martin Bradley's attacking you. You must be a good guy. Hey, you're over the target. >> Yeah, we've had a few chats, you know, over coffee and that and I've always found them really fascinating. I thought it's time for people to understand the brains uh behind the centrist and what it's all about. So, let's just get chatting and >> Sure. >> So, where are you from? You've you've got a you know a wgy name there. >> Strange accent, strange man. >> Yeah, strange accent. Strange. Tell us about Tamim Barcat. >> Tamim Barcat. Well, I'm uh from Vancouver, Vancouver, BC in Canada. I was born in uh Vancouver. Raised there. >> Yeah. No. Yeah. No, it's it's okay. I'm recovering. And uh my parents um it it always comes up because I've got a different name. My father is from Egypt and uh my mother is Italian. So my mother is uh was you know a Jew and uh my father Muslim and they got together and at that time they were married in the 1960s. So at that time it really wasn't religion wasn't a factor. It wasn't oh this person's Jewish and this person's Muslim it'll never work. I think in the 1960s in that time it was far more about um the status and class and what kind of family you came from because my father being from Cairo um in in that time in the in the he was born in 1938 so it was under the king it still had the king it was very much a protectorate of uh Britain and it was in very many ways a very European city Cairo and Alexandria and um they got married in the 1960s in London and uh again it was really about like my grandfather my mother's uh father she wasn't he wouldn't he wouldn't have been that concerned with the man is an Egyptian or he's a Muslim he would have been concerned if anything with the status of the family so the if the if the family was of a certain status and you felt it matched your family status then no issue >> and uh that's how it was so a lot of my father's siblings um were uh you know a lot of them lived in Europe and uh they married uh outside of you know uh the Egyptian uh society because the the flow between societies was a lot more fluid back then. It was considered a Mediterranean city. I think today it's more eyebrow raising because there's this big division between the Muslim and the Jew for political reasons. But back then it was really, you know, what's your education? uh you know like for example my parents um their first language that they spoke together because my mom being Italian and my father being Egyptian the first language that they had in common was French >> right >> so they were both educated in French because that was considered what educated people would do and so uh >> God knows why but >> yeah and uh my father attended a Victoria college and he used to say it's where they made little Arab boys into little English boys >> right >> and uh he would have attended school with uh you know the son of the king of Jordan and you know the royal family of uh Saudi Arabia might have been there or whoever right it was it was you know very wellto-do and um so anyway they they moved to England and then eventually they moved to Canada because I think my father had uh a relation there that was doing business um and they went to a very small town outside of Vancouver uh I think called uh I think it was hope British Columbia And you'll know Hope because it's where they filmed Rambo. Remember Rambo First Blood? >> Yeah. Yep. >> Right. When they kick him out of that town. Yeah. >> That was Hope. >> That tiny little town with Brian Denner. He is That's right. as the bad sheriff. I think he was always played bad sheriff, didn't he? >> Did he? Uh he was in Cocoon. So I think he was a good guy in Cocoon, wasn't he? >> Right. I think he was the the uh you know the type cast as a bad guy mostly. >> Yeah. I love Brian Denah. He was so cool. He was also in FX, which is a great movie. remember that one back in the day? >> Yeah, I do. >> So anyway, that was Hope. So I I often laugh because my mom from Rome and my father from Cairo, these two world cities that at the time wound up in Hope. And I think my mom lasted about 3 days. She said, "Look, I'm going to Vancouver," which still would have been small, but it's not Hope. And that's where they stayed. And that's where I grew up. And then um I met my wife uh who oddly enough, well, she is from New Zealand. And uh so she was in Vancouver because her father uh is actually also from Vancouver, but he immigrated to New Zealand in the 1960s himself. So she was born and raised here and she was uh in Vancouver visiting relatives and that's where we met and uh she's a writer and I was a musician at the time. Uh I I was I was I was always very interested in politics ever since a young age. Like I remember when I was in kindergarten I was discussing uh you know Reagan had just been shot. >> Yeah. >> And so we were discussing it and I I had a view on it and you know so I was a very aware of politics and I was also very aware of politics because you know being raised uh by you know the in a in a household that was mixed Arab and Jew and Muslim and you know I noticed um that they talked about you a lot on the news. There was a lot of, you know, oftent times places that I was familiar with, names that I was familiar with would come up in the news. They were always talking about the Middle East. They're always talking about the conflict in Israel and Palestine and and I had connections to all of these these things. So, I guess the other aspect of that too is when I was young, my mom worked for the airline and uh she would get up very early in the morning and I don't know what possessed me, but I would get up with her and uh being a good '8s kid, there was nothing to do at 4:30 or 5 in the morning when I got up other than watch TV. And the only thing on television that had unless you wanted to watch something black and white like uh 12 o'clock high or you know whatever some which I didn't because I wanted you know something with color and and and some lights and and fast moving the news. So I would watch headline news and so I think when I was like five or six I must have been taking in like two two and a half hours of >> news >> news every morning and it was actually probably bad. You've been you've been brainwashed >> completely. But it wasn't so much >> Canadian politics. >> Well, it was usually US. >> Yeah. >> Because it was headline news. It was CNN because that's what they it wasn't until much later that Canada had its own 24-hour news cycle, but uh prior well prior to CNN becoming a 24-hour thing. It it uh I recall it was on early in the morning. Maybe they had a feed that was 24 hours somewhere, but it was like something that would broadcast prior to the broadcasting day beginning. So, you know, you you'd watch like headline news. I remember his headline news specifically >> and uh and then at around 6:30 maybe the cartoons would kick in. So, you can kind of switch over and, you know, get with the program. Now, you could watch G.I. Joe and Eman. >> So, in my mind it was all mixed into one. You had, you know, geopolitics over here with Israel Palestine or the gay rights movement mixed in with G.I. Joe and uh, you know, mask and and these kinds of, you know, and it was all mixed into one. And what it what it taught me was actually I picked up on narratives quite early. So when they were talking about say the environment, it was always bad, right? So I don't I wasn't picking up on the detail of what was going on, but the narrative was always bad. Uh if they talked about gay rights, LGBTQ uh >> it's all wonderful, wasn't it? >> It was all wonderful, right? There was always a win. The next win up, the next win up, now they can get married. Now they can share a pension. Now they can adopt. Now they can, you know, um, if they talked about the Middle East, it was always bad. There was always, >> especially those pesky Jews, right? >> All of Well, well, actually, I think what to be fair, it seemed the uh the the Jews were well, the Israelis really. They didn't really talk about Jews. They talk about Israel. >> And uh, yeah, I guess they were under threat from the terrorists. The Arabs were always terrorists and the Jews were always on the defense. That was sort of the narrative that you sort of got used to. >> And uh you know my poor dad when they did talk about Middle East politics, poor guy, I would run upstairs and bang on the door at like 5 in the morning. Dad, dad, they're talking about you know the Middle East. You got to come down. And you know, poor guy cuz he didn't want to discourage, you know, my interest in things that were to him serious matters. >> So he'd get up and come on down and, you know, we'd talk about it and and so I just Yeah, that's how I did it. But um to get back to how I met my wife, the reason I got into uh playing music was I noticed very early I loved politics but uh politicians seem so hamstrung, right? Like uh if you get caught smoking a joint, your career is over or whatever. And it seemed that uh >> saying the wrong thing, >> saying the wrong thing, you know. And it seemed that in uh the arts uh they had a lot more freedom, but they also could have a political view. they could say what they wanted >> and they had a lot for more freedom and a lot of these artists that I liked I noticed they they uh you know they would write um you know love songs and ballads and that wasn't my bag. I wasn't I was never into that stuff. Um I was always into just politics and whatnot and writing poetry but political poetry. >> So Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen. >> Bob Dylan. Yeah. Like first we take Manhattan then we take Berlin. That stuff really made an impression on me as he got older. Republican Enemy, Chuck D, this kind of stuff. Uh, even James Brown, you know, he went through that real hard um, >> political phase in the 1970s and it was just, you know, it just really influenced me. And instead of waiting till the end of your career, because I noticed what happens with, it was an observation I made with young people and uh, music in early in their careers, they seemed interested in writing about their relationships and the woman they love and all that. And then as they got older, it seemed that their worldview expanded and they want to take on a political view. So I had this idea, well what happens if I take on a political view from day one. I remember thinking that when I was 14 and just got into like writing from that angle and of course my dad also he was very interested in these things. We weren't allowed really in our house to watch sports. He didn't like sports. He didn't you know hockey was a big thing in Canada and I try hey dad the hockey game's on. Who cares? And uh I just didn't care. So you know I I was just it was just not open to me. I was interested in in the politics of of sport, you know, how sport fit into the national psyche. Was it um like how politics fit into it? Like I always noticed, for example, uh you know, politicians uh sorry, athletes were never asked any serious questions, >> you know, and uh I thought, why not? And then I realized, you know, many years later, um there's a guy named John Rocker. >> It's kind of funny, you know, now he's I don't mind all his political opinions, but they stuck a microphone in his face. He was playing uh baseball. I can't remember who he played with the Atlanta Braves or somebody like that, but he's playing in the World Series in New York and uh they stuck a mic in his face and and they say, "Hey, what do you think of New York?" Say, "Ah, too many minorities on the subway." And okay, that's why you don't that's why you don't ask these guys their opinion because I was always like >> because they might give it. >> They might give it because I was always like uh you know, I was always like, "Man, what happens if the hockey game was there and as the guy's just leaving the ice, you're like, "Hey, what about the Israeli Palestinian conflict? What do you think of that?" Like just like stick the mic in his face. But I realize you probably don't want to See, I >> poke that bear. I >> I look at at celebrities that are always giving their opinion about geopolitical events and politics, and I'm I sit there and thinking, >> mate, you make a living as a professional liar. >> Yeah. >> Actors are professional liars, right? They have a persona that they play. And like the ones that used to get me were the ones who'd come out against guns. They'd say, "Oh, hey, all your movies are about you with guns, >> and now you're against it. How about you make a movie without a gun and see how you get on, right?" And they they've always got this hypocritical slant to them. And and in many respects, some pol some musicians do the same thing. You know, they're very opinionated. Bonovox for example um from YouTube or >> uh any number of them pipe up about. So perhaps the most egregious example is that idiot from Pink Floyd um who has the most hateful um ideas but he's always you know they always talk to him um about things and he's just got this grizzled commodinly attitude to everything and and and it's just totally anti-semitic in in every respect. Um, and you know, Roger Waters is is who I'm talking about, >> right? >> Just, you know, great >> I like them better than Dave Gilmore. >> Great musicians. Yeah. >> Right now, shut up about We just want to hear about how you got that idea for that music and don't give us your opinion on something you actually know all about. >> Well, it comes out in the music or the art anyway. Like, how many, you know, you can watch a Hollywood movie and it'll tell you everything you need to know about the politics of the people that made it and and the people behind it. It's it's all in there. Yeah. And really it's it is a powerful medium, but there are limits to it. I realize now um and um you know I I prefer I I prefer the journalism space to be honest for the raw creativity because it assues the issue of having to come up with stylistically something. And I don't get me wrong, I love making music and whatnot, but um to just be able to uh get your opinion down on the page or, you know, on the blog or whatever your medium is and not have to worry uh about the the the the creative window dressing around it, you know, to not have to worry about is the guitar this way or is the bass that way or the lyrics this way. Let's just get to the idea. And at this point in my life, it is it is much nicer. So, but it's funny because the reason I got out of music was I was doing it for many years and I was sort of just on the cusp of going pro and uh I I was always uh you know like I would take jobs that would allow me to do long tours and whatnot and I toured across Canada many times. That's how I saw Canada. It was a very good experience. Uh I got to see it from sort of the ground level driving across country several times, very small towns, meeting the real people of the country and you know getting an insight into how that country works. Um, but what I didn't like about it, uh, was it was really a ride-or- die proposition for me because I wasn't the type of musician that could, uh, you know, in my mind, I wasn't like a session player. I wasn't the type of guy you could hire, okay, to me, uh, we need you to come in and this is like a Latin infused piece, so we need you to play that way. I I couldn't do that. I could do my thing, you know. So, you know, >> my way or the highway. >> My way or the highway. If you didn't like the sound I was coming up with, then I'm done. And that to me was a huge risk. There was no And yeah, I was complaining about this my wife in a way. I was like, well, here I am with centrist. It's it's the same trap. There's no like it's the same thing. Like if people don't like your your your political view or or the way you frame a story or whatever. >> Yeah. They don't read it. You're gone. I'm like what? How did I It's No, you just can't get away from yourself. Whatever style that you came in with, that's it. That's who you are. And it doesn't change. you've picked a really hard thing to do and and that's the name of the organization, right? Centrist, >> uh to try and be in the middle. >> Well, to be fair, >> which is really hard in modern society now because we're so fractionalized. We're so compartmentalized. You're either that team or that team. There's there's no middle ground anymore. Um and we're seeing this all the time in US politics in particular. Yeah. This real divide between left and right. there is no centis c center c centerism in in US politics. >> Well, do you feel that there's no middle ground or do you feel like one side maybe in particular shifted way out on uh the edge of the spectrum and the center what was the center is now considered well in my view in many ways can be considered far right. Not entirely on every topic, but generally speaking, >> yeah, that's because the left moved a long way left, right? They they went a long way left. >> Um, and what they did is, I mean, the technical term is move moving the Overton window, right? >> So, the Overton window was centered on this on the center ground and you had elements from the left and from the right coming into the window. >> When the left moved all the way to the left, like hard left, >> yeah, >> it dragged that window frame across. So that the center now appeared to be hard right which we know it isn't. >> And when did that happen? You figure what was the kickoff? >> I think that happened a lot in the '9s and early 2000s is where we saw that polarization start to occur in politics >> post 911 kind of thing. >> Yeah. I'm not sure you can connect it to 911. Definitely though in particularly on the left they decided to take these positions that were would have been considered extreme in the 70s and 80s. >> Yeah. >> You know and are now no longer considered extreme. It's like if you've got an a centrist type opinion these days you're considered extreme. >> Yeah. >> You know that's why you get you know the media labeling you know New Zealand first as evil populists and the ACT party is far right. Well, the ACT party is a classical liberal party, so it kind of precludes them being far right >> and they do a lot of things that don't appear far right. >> And then there's topsyturviness as well because they describe the Nazis of the 30s as far right, >> right? They're far left. >> That they were actually far left. You know, they were called the Nationalist Socialist Party. >> That's right. >> Right. So they their core beliefs were ve well Adolf Hitler was a vegan, right? He um he uh advocated regular exercise in the mornings and and mandated it in Nazi Germany. Um he >> I think he instilled uh uh a lot of uh things we take granted around workers rights, don't we? >> Workers rights. You've then got green um policies. Yeah. Hardcore greeny um hardcore vegan. All of the things that would put you on the hard left. And of course they were socialists who grasped control of the uh mechanisms of of enterprise to further the designs of the state. So it's only a short jump from there to communism. >> Yeah. >> Right. But at the moment private citizens still owned the means of production. The difference between communism and and national socialism was that this the state didn't own the means of production. Well, I think one of the great mysteries of World War II and and always interested me was why uh exactly the United States teamed up with the communists to defeat uh the National Socialists. It seems to me that the National Socialists had a lot more in common with American uh economy and capitalism and maybe even the UK than they did with the the Russian model at the time. >> Yeah. >> And I'm not saying they should or shouldn't have. It's just a bit of a mystery and and no one can quite answer the question. I think it comes down to who who Adolf Hitler decided decided to attack and then you know they might be enemies. A communist state is is always the en enemy of capitalism. Yeah. >> But the enemy of my enem is my friend. >> Yes. >> Until we no longer have an enemy and now we're back to enemies again. And that's exactly what happened at the end of World War II. >> See, I'm not convinced we we know enough about World War II to comment. When I was I remember I had a a high school teacher. >> We're going to get in trouble for this. hypothesizing that. >> By the way, >> we'll be blacklisted. >> I'm Muslim and Jewish. You can't say anything to me. >> What opinion am I not allowed to have? >> I tried I And you're a Christian. >> Yeah. >> Right on, bro. We're We're free. >> Yeah, exactly. >> No, but um it's interesting. >> I'm just hypothesizing the history's written by the victors. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> If you're not allowed to ask questions, we got a problem. And if I can't ask a question, even the most basic, >> we're not doing a Candace Owens type. I'm just asking questions, though. She's bat crazy. >> Yeah. But, you know, I I I I don't even I I don't understand. I think you said this actually. I was listening to this um uh Elliot uh >> Elliot Eoli. Yeah. >> Eoli. Yeah. Great interview. And uh you were mentioning something that uh rang with me. It's like, you know, you've got the the mainstream media in New Zealand and, you know, your Jack Tames and whatnot. >> He he's just like his surname. He's very tame. >> He's very tame. And uh they they have they're they're presenters and uh they seem to be definitely afraid of you having an opinion off script, >> whereas you were saying, "Let the person talk for an hour and a half, and if they're an idiot, we'll all know." >> That's right. >> Why not? What's the problem? Right? >> Let them let them talk. You know, uh, another guest of mine, CB Woodhouse, has got himself into a spot of bother for the terrible thought crime of retweeting something that's, um, a dangerous thought. >> Yeah, he was who was the He was retweeting Holocaust in Outlast. Who was that exactly? I was curious. Was it David Irving or something or >> Probably David Irving Irving's nuts, but so what? Don't silence him. Let's listen to his nuttiness. >> Well, everybody's nuts when you get up close to their opinion. I like I it's uh but you know what? Um I want to hear it all. Like I really don't care because wouldn't you love to have your mind blown? Wouldn't you love to find out something you thought was crazy was actually not crazy and it just flipped your worldview. Let's hear it. >> Co taught us that, didn't it? >> Absolutely. Yeah. Co was >> they labeled the people who opposed the government's policies and things as crazy. >> Yeah. >> But you know what? The crazies were right. >> Uh I was one of them. >> Yeah. >> Thank God. you know, CO was the uh to to get to why I came to New Zealand. Co was a big part of it because uh you know, like I said, I met my wife and um uh you know, actually it was interesting because I met my wife while I was playing music and like I said, I was just on the cusp. I just uh got my first contract actually after playing for 15 years and now I was funded. >> And uh this woman phones me up and she's a writer and she'd like to interview me. She didn't know anything that I just got this contract and whatnot. and she just happened to be the first person that phoned just a few days after I got this contract. And she wanted me an interview. She liked she liked the band. We were playing in a band and she liked the band so she wanted to interview the band. And uh she had an interesting accent. I I couldn't quite place it. >> So you cracked on to the journalist that was writing about you. >> I mean, you know, what can I say? I just remember >> The chemistry was there. >> The chemistry was there. Um but uh anyway we settled down in Vancouver and um COVID came along. We were very happy in Vancouver. We had a beautiful home and and and I was by that time I had uh Id studied criminology in university. Speaking of far left, I'd studied crim and that was extremely far left. And the reason I studied criminology was one I thought it sounded cool because you know I was into writing lyrics and whatnot. So I thought well where where can a middle class kid get a street edge? Maybe study criminology. And uh you know it also allowed me to uh work with young offenders which is work I did enjoy. But because of that background when I got married uh I um uh needed a job and uh I was living in Egypt at the time. Actually, my wife and I went to Egypt because my dad was there and he moved to Egypt uh you know several years earlier and um I wanted to spend some time with him, study the language, get to know the guy, you know, he's sort of in and out after a certain point in my life and so I went to Egypt was spending time with him and my wife uh who was my girlfriend at the time came and Egypt being a very conservative country it was considered not appropriate for this guy to be living with his girlfriend. So, we said, "Let's get married." And so, we got married. And then my wife uh was expecting our first child and I needed an actual job. And when I was in Egypt, I met these diplomats and they just looked like they're having a great time. I met a Canadian guy who was a diplomat for the Canadian government. I saw him down at the club playing tennis, uh, drinking coffees. The guy was just living the life of Larry. And, uh, so I started applying for jobs and I thought, well, I want to be a diplomat. That's that that looks like the that looks like the job I want. But because I had a criminology degree, I didn't land and and I was a very conservative government at the time. It was the government of Steven Harper and he wasn't very interested in uh you know expanding foreign relations. But uh he was interested in corrections. So I wound up uh working in a maximum security prison for women for about 10 years. And uh because I had that degree and because I worked with young offenders, they said, "Well, this guy worked with young guys on the street and he's got a crim degree. Let's put him in the maximum security prison for women. See how he does." So I wound up doing that for 10 years and it was great. Uh but then co came along and my wife had always talked about wanting to go back to New Zealand. She always wanted to come back home because her family is here, her sisters are here, everyone's here. And when co came along, I sat down, took a very long look at it and thought, you know what, the politicians have a have a hold of this now. This looks like it's going to be a cluster. Uh this looks like it's going to be a mess. So, if we are going to do this, if we aren't going to do this now, uh I think this is going to get a lot more complicated and a lot more expensive. And I think within a week of that decision, uh my wife was on the plane and then it took me about 6 months to to to figure out how to to get over which was a bit funny because uh I had my first experience with the New Zealand bureaucracy, which is actually lovely after coming out of the Canadian bureaucracy. Canadian bureaucracy is it's as cold as a country. Like they're just not not interested in your personal well-being. They're very socialist. Whereas I found the New Zealand bureaucracy was wonderful. But it was funny because they gave you a form. My wife and children are here in New Zealand and I'm in Canada and I had a form. I had to come in as a visitor and because it was COVID, you had to really make your case. So they sent me a PDF form. Fill this out. We'll decide. And in the PDF form, they had a box. It was a tiny little box on the screen and you had to put the reasons why you wanted to come. And I thought well it's my wife is here my children are here and I want to reunite with them like what's you know rejected. So I thought okay. So then you know two months later try again and rejected again. And then finally my wife comes and she said look I was talking to someone here and they said it's all about that letter. You really got to put it into that letter. And uh so I thought okay. So I went and looked at the PDF and it turns out I didn't realize but it was a PDF. Um, and as you typed, the box got longer. You know, one of those. So, you could type more. I thought you were restricted to like >> 500 characters. So, I type more. Look, I really love my wife. I really miss my kids. I really want to get back together with them. Approved. >> And uh so I uh and it was it was funny because we we had really moved early in uh in that whole affair. So, uh I got into MIQ, no problem. I I picked up the phone. I think within 15 minutes I I had the place booked at MIQ because it was a huge uh turmoil for people. >> It was. >> Yeah. And uh they put me up at the M Social because I think after after after I got in um I think the system really went haywire because people thought, "Oh man, this is this is starting to like look a lot more serious than we initially thought." And they started putting people in like uh encampments and things. I think uh at military bases, not necessarily at hotels or or something like they changed, but I think I got the the luxury treatment as far as MIQ goes. And it was funny. I was just at the MIQ for what, two and a half weeks, I think they quit, >> which is bollocks anyway. >> Yeah. Well, they said it's not like a prison, but me being um uh you know, a veteran of the woman's prison, I was like, well, it's a lot like a woman's prison if you want to look at it that way. It's not like a hardcore men's maximum security prison, but if you had to compare MIQ, I had to compare it to a multi-level woman's institution. >> To get with the quality of food and the resources and all that, you know, did have a similarity, but you know, that's splitting hairs. >> You're an expert in this. So, you know, >> I I do have an opinion. I do have an opinion. And um and and and then I was in the country and then yeah, now I've just gone through the paperwork and I'm here permanently and um God bless. You know, New Zealand's great. I'm glad we made the move because it is true things did get more expensive and more complicated. I thought that um it was really interesting to watch how New Zealand dealt with the pandemic. Um what was the what was the what was the name of the program? Did it have a name where they were paying people the the payments like the government was doing the payments? I thought that was quite interesting. >> Payments to who? >> You know to keep you afloat because during the lockown? >> Oh yeah, they they had um you know the wage subsidy program. >> The wage subsidy. Yeah, that's right. And because did you notice and maybe you got an opinion on this. Did you notice that they they put in the QR pass, the vaccine pass, and you know, if you chose not to uh get vaccinated, that was bizarre. Walking around unvaccinated in a QR pass world. I was down in Ellersley and there was a sign that said your dog is allowed here >> and they had a QR pass setup, so you couldn't get in to I think it was get haircut. You couldn't get in with to get your haircut. >> It was ridiculous. >> But your dog was allowed. I was like, history's I wish I was bizarre. It was absolutely batch crazy. And if you look at some of the things like once they brought in that QR system, right, and and the vaccine passes, show us your papers. Basically, >> once they brought that in, then it just gave people a license to be absolute >> guns. Right. >> They they they they it was ridiculous. But the rules ridiculous. You could go to a restaurant, but you had to wear your mask >> between shoes. But when you got out of your car and walked to the restaurant, you had to wear a mask. If you were standing in the restaurant, you had to wear a mask. If you were sitting now, you could take your mask off. Cuz of course, CO just floats around above people's heads, doesn't it? It's only >> Well, it waits for you. >> Yeah. Well, it stand up and it hits you. >> It's not waiting for you. Remember Christopher Hipkins said, >> "The virus is literally hunting them." Hunting. It's knocking on the gate. It's hunting you down. >> The whole thing was bollocks. >> A total scam. I don't want to say total scam because I don't know, but what I do know is um at the time uh well I did know that the whole thing was going to fall apart because they had the wage subsidy program and then they had the um the traffic light system. >> Yeah. >> And you notice as soon as they took away the wage subsidy program because they were doing that we're tracking the number of vaccinated people in the country, you're getting that dayto-day number and as soon as we got to 95% then we were free. And and so they that they hit that 95% mark in in the in the media. They told us we'd hit this mark. I guess some official number. That turned out to be wrong by the way. Surprise, surprise. But >> who would have thought? >> Yeah. Surprise, surprise. And then uh and then they took away the wage subsidy and they were just trying to operate the economy strictly on this idea of a vaccine pass. And then it fell apart in two weeks. And it was obvious because you know a lot of these restaurants, they operate on such thin margins. can't afford to take away five, 10, 15% of their customer base. >> Go out to a restaurant and they'd say, "Oh, you know, you didn't scan in." No. >> Well, you know, you need to scan in. Said, "Oh, how about this?" And I'd hold up a $100 note. >> Yeah. >> I said, "You can have this or you can have the way you can have the the passport, but you can't have both. Make a choice." >> Yeah. Yeah. Obviously. Obviously. They took the money every time. >> The media, the media during that time was just, it was absolutely incredible. >> Bought, it doesn't matter how many editors, how many media owners come out and say that they weren't bought, that the the public interest journalism fund wasn't a bribe. Doesn't matter how many times they say that. That's the perception. And perception is reality when we're talking about things like this. >> But it wasn't just the PIFF, was it? because you know all of the advertising around uh the the co system >> tens of millions of dollars and it's still happening. You you drive in your car, listen to the radio, you'll get an ad for the latest flu vaccine, you'll get an ad for the latest COVID vaccine. You'll get an ad for all of these health things that are all right? You know, oh, you really should if you're over 50, you should be looking at getting your shingles um vaccine. You know, never mind that none of these things work. >> Yeah. You know, people who get the flu vaccine, guess what they get next? >> The flu. >> The flu, >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I'm not convinced with the efficacy of vaccines, generally speaking. Um, hey, but if you want to get them as an individual, go ahead. But I really noticed the the propaganda, the push uh only when I had children. >> Think of think of granny. We're trying to save granny here. >> Oh, that that whole look, working from a correction standpoint, because I was in Canada when uh now here's one thing. I was in Canada uh working at the prison and I had to spend a lot of time because when COVID broke out I was working in the max wing of uh the prison and in Canada uh they were just as uh hyper about it. They were bringing these massive semi-truckss that were portable hospitals and they were parking them next to the hospital to deal with the overflow and I was doing hospital runs with inmates all the time. First of all, there was no COVID in the prison as far as I could tell. >> Like so the and the women that were locked up were severely immune compromised. PEP B, HEPSC, uh, HIV, like they're they're severely immune compromised, no COVID. And then I would do numerous runs to the hospital and I was working in a city called Abbottzford, which is about an hour outside of Vancouver and is a regional hospital. So, it's a major hub with your big semis with these roving mobile uh treatment units for for the CO uh patients that were supposed to be overflowing. They were empty. They were empty. >> Well, we know they were empty because the nurses all had time to do Tik Tok bloody videos. >> Yeah. Yeah. There's so something was wrong. And in Vancouver, they've got an area of the city called the Downtown East Side, uh which is basically a massive drug ghetto. I did work there for uh for a while. Yeah. The Downtown East Side is made up of single room occupancy hotels that were meant for workers on the rail line back in the day. And now they've flooded the area with drug treatment services. And because Vancouver has a temperate climate compared to the rest of Vancouver or sorry, rest of Canada, it attracts a lot of homelessness and a lot of drug addicts. It's a port city. You got the fentanyl crisis. It is. It is a massive drug ghetto. And I can't if you've never been to Vancouver, uh, imagine 50,000 hardcore drug users in a threeb block radius. That's >> sounds entertaining. >> It is. It is incredible. No CO. >> Funny, Dad. >> No CO. And they said in the paper, well, it's because um, you know, a lot of the people sleep rough and maybe that actually enhances their immune system. They're used to sleeping rough. And it's something is wrong with the story because if that was the case the half the uh >> there's a lot wrong with the story. There was you know a real push. I know Ardurn really pushed for this in cabinet and it was opposed by Winston Peters at the time. She wanted to ban the sales of cigarettes. >> Oh yeah. >> And tobacco. And then of course it came out later that if you were a smoker >> uh and partaking in cigarettes or people who used high nicotine products like cigars, no one nobody who's a cigar smoker got CO. No one's a cigarette smoker it really got CO because that nicotine >> killed it dead. >> Oh yeah. >> So here was me chugging a a cigar every day during the lockdowns. Yeah. Right. drinking uh scotch um single malt scotches. >> Doing the best you can to stay alive here. >> Yeah. Really working really hard, you know, in between driving around with gay abandon and ignoring ignoring the lockdowns and not standing in line at the supermarket just sailing on past and basically thumbming my nose at all the restrictions. Yeah. >> Uh yeah. Didn't get CO. Didn't get it once. I I think I got a flu somewhere in that period, but you I just knew it was a scam because people were the I'm always like probably like yourself, you're very interested in media and propaganda and the tactics and the whole thing. Hey, get the shot. We'll give you free tickets. Hey, get the shot. Here's a free beer. Hey, get the shot. Get burger. Here's some KFC. This condescend. And then the concept of asymptomatic spread just makes zero sense. Oh, no. They've got CO but they don't know it. you need the government to tell them like that's not an issue. So, but of course, you know, the the absolute um lunacy that would break out if you aired these opinions publicly. Uh you know what I I chalk it up to is almost um it was it was almost spiritual in nature. If you had a certain spiritual bent that you just had to follow the government because that's your higher power, if you >> socialist would go along with it, you see. >> That's right. And then it was >> what the government says because the government's always right. >> And did they do the same thing here that they did in Canada? Shut down the churches and the synagogues and the mosques and all this, but then the strip bars are all open, >> right? Like cuz they did that in Canada. And that should that was weird right there. >> Well, at my church, everyone pretty much ignored it anyway. And they would have smaller groups and they'd get together and you know, I had a um a men's lunch group that has been operating for that I've been going to for 20 like 25 years. Oh yeah. >> Well, well, we didn't stop. >> Yeah. >> Well, we we just would go somewhere um where 10 or 12 of us could park our cars undercover. >> Yeah. >> And drive around on the abandoned roads and uh have a barbecue. It was it was a grand old time actually. I was like thoroughly enjoyed it. >> Imagine uh I love the meme at the time. Hey, what uh Resistance to Punks are not rebellion used to look like in the 80s. All these punks and all this, but it looks like uh you know, in the 2020s or whatever. It's like having a barbecue with your family. just so ridiculous. It was but a But you know what? It was very interesting because I got to see uh the world from a very different perspective because while the whole world was locking down, I was moving countries. >> Well, see, while everyone was putting masks on, the masks actually slipped. >> We actually saw people for who they really were. This that's why Justindra Adun can't live in New Zealand anymore because we saw who she really was. And it wasn't kindness. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And it wasn't all of the manufactured uh you know the artifice of who she was. >> Yeah. who what she was was a shabby little dictator who wore jack boots and enjoyed it and enjoyed stomping on people's freedoms and then told us in true uh you know Orwellian speak that it was kindness that we're doing these things >> that just the fact that you know there's this is one thing I've learned from centrist and I always knew it before you've got you know if if it comes to politics you know somebody might you're probably the same way where you're like just give me the idea idea, you know, what are you? I don't care if you're gay, black, Frenchspeaking, transgender woman. I could care what's your idea. What's your what's your idea on tax policy? And if you like the idea, like I'm with you. But then that's only like half the population. The other half are driven almost entirely by feelings. >> And there is that sense I do get where whether you're on one side of the line or the other, you know, you kind of get a sense, oh, that's my guy. And and there is a bit of a vibe there. But a lot of people are just driven by just the feelings of it all. >> And you see this most apparent when a political party chooses a woman as a leader. >> Yeah. Oh, well, hey, by the way, the first thing that happened with co that thought, okay, here we're in trouble. In uh Canada, they had Dr. Bonnie Henry um who was at the podium and she was the uh you know, the Bloomfield of of British Columbia, the Ashley Bloomfield of British Columbia. And one of the first things she started doing was cried like before COVID kicked off and all the she was crying and that's when I thought oh ho ho here we go we're emotionally manipulating our audience aren't we because there's no reason to cry there's no reason but the idea was this was at the very early stage of the pandemic the second I saw her crying I thought okay there's going to be some serious dictats coming down the line here >> but we but we've seen this over and over again this disconnect I I remember when Clark became the prime minister and there was this cute little saying that the media would all say because it was driven from Clark's own office that she was New Zealand's first elected woman. >> That's right. That's right. Yeah. >> We don't elect prime ministers in New Zealand. The caucus selects a leader, the party wins an election, the party leader becomes the prime minister. Jenny Shipley was the first woman prime minister, but there was always this little slight, >> this little slur against Jenny Shipley because she wasn't elected and she was on the right and therefore she's horrible by Margaret Thatcher, right? Ruth Richardson. Any woman who's on the right who becomes a leader is an awful horrible herodin and then they must be taken from power. >> Yeah. And any woman on the left is this wonderful, you know, embodiment of of of womanhood and peace and and mung beans and and everything else. We saw that with Helen Clark. Um very capable politician. >> Yeah. >> Right. Capable than most more capable than most men. Did a brilliant job actually as prime minister. I'll be the first to say that. >> Yeah. >> Her >> would she be considered leftwing today? >> Yes, she would. She she I mean she was a Vietnam war hippie protester throwing paint at soldiers type person you know anti-nuke the whole thing right >> so she is leftwing >> sure >> right and she wears that and she's now in this group called the elders which >> which just sounds creepy >> but but she was a capable politician just was not a capable politician Barry Soaper um uh said in his book quite clearly she was fake she was you false. >> She was over her head >> very much so. Very overhead. She talks herself about having imposter syndrome and anybody who's in public life has a element of imposter syndrome. You know, anyone gets it. They're running a podcast or whatever. You think, "Oh, am I good enough to do this?" >> At at the early stage, you have it. See, that's the thing. You have that like I had imposter syndrome uh playing music because you you play these gigs and sometimes the gigs are quite high-profile. Uh you have great opportunities. you think, "I'm not ready for this." But then at a certain point, you're like, "Well, no, I am ready for this." >> And so by her saying, "I have imposter syndrome," it's just her admitting that look, you're >> it's hard. >> Well, also, you're quite new in the game because I don't think she had any bumps in the road on her way to prime minister. It was pretty much straight line. >> No. >> And that that's bad. >> See, I was lucky in that I'd actually met her before she became that well known. >> Yeah, I met her, too, actually. >> Yeah. In 2008, um I met her in Morrenville. had lunch with her for probably about three or four hours. Oh yeah. >> Um I came away with the impression that this was someone who was very keen on politics but was very stupid. >> Um she had lots of what I call bumper sticker slogans. They're sort of the slogans you trot out about, you know, the unions are like that leftwing politician. They have these slogans that come out. Yeah. We're for the workers. Yeah. You know, she had all of that. You know, there I even discovered a video of her when she was the president of the International Union so uh International Union of Socialist Youth. >> Yeah. >> Right. And there she is making this speech and there's this I I put on it a count every time she said comrade. It was a you know a seven minute speech with 37 incences of the word comrade. >> But she wasn't uh an ideologue that way. I think it was just um fashion. >> No, that's right. It was it was like I said bumper sticker slogans, right? She knew that that was the position. That's how you must talk to everybody here. So she she was very performative. Yeah. >> And that it just explains her prime ministership. It was performative. >> She had her little concerned troll face, you know, where she'd go >> and she'd grasp your chin and she'd look all sad and >> she had a communications uh background, so you know, corporate propaganda was her specialty. Really? >> That's right. and she did a standup job of propagandizing the entire nation. So much so that there's idiots now who think that she's the best prime minister we've ever had. >> Like 30% that rusted on that just will just Yeah. There's like 30% of the voter that will just stick with that person. >> You know, a book comes out about her and gush gush gush I've got to read. Oh, this is the best thing I've ever read. Politicians are right? Almost exclusively. Even the ones you think are good, >> right? Yeah, fair enough. Don't meet them. Right. Don't meet your idols. >> They are narcissists. They're sociopaths. They're psychopaths. And sometimes they're all three. >> Yeah. >> Right. And they're they're not by and large they're not interested in furthering the uh interests of the country. >> Yes. I That's true. >> They're interested in furthering the interests of them and then the party and then the country third. >> Yeah, that's true. And and that's that's too bad uh because um but I always thought there's way more profit in uh taking common sense populist stances than is given credit for by a lot of these mainstream politicians, >> right? Look look at the way the media are beating up on Winston Peters and Shane Jones. They're populist. >> Yeah, that's always like a that's like a slur. Yeah, that's a good thing, isn't it? >> Um Maloney in Italy, she's a populist. >> Thank God. It means you're popular with the people. >> It means they're saying the things that people are thinking but are too afraid to say because society frowns on them or the media frowns on. The same thing for the attack on CB Woodhouse. He retweeted something. Oh, we're going to cancel the sponsorship because we don't want to be associated with >> retweets. If you actually pause where they say we don't want to be associated with and then insert the actual thing that they're complaining about, a retweet. >> Right. >> Right. or a repost on X. So what? How many people saw that? More people saw it because you brought it up. >> Yeah, I looked for it. I couldn't find it after I I looked for it, but >> I actually don't care. >> Well, I thought it's interesting because I will say this. If you're if you're going to get into the Jews or this or that or whatever, you can't go halfway. Okay, so you got to go all in. You gotta just like I think this about Jewish power and you just gota dig in your toes and stand your ground and just wait for the wave because they're gonna come at you because it's just that's the way it goes. So you can't you can't afford to be uh just like tepid about that particular >> asking questions. >> Just ask question. >> No, that's not going to work. You're all in or you're all out. >> You're all in. You're all out. I remember my wife um interviewed a um a Palestinian writer for um what was the magazine? Adbusters and it was a really great interview and and it was very interesting and she uh but it was a question and answer interview and then she had this uh editorial section where she uh wrote I can't remember what it was just just some some editorial thoughts on the interview and whatnot and Adbusters didn't run it and they just ran the Q&A and she was annoyed and I said well look this is the this is the Middle East conflict we're talking about they're not just going to let you you know Jane plane from wherever just have an opinion on the Middle East conflict, just be thankful they printed the Q&A and leave it at that. Probably better that you didn't have your own editorial bit in there just because, you know, unless you really want to get involved and have this conflict define your entire career all in or all out, just be glad that you got a little bit in there and and now you can step back. >> See, it's actually easy, right? It's all in. >> Yeah. >> On backing Israel. >> Yeah. Well, I back Israel, but I back Israel in the sense that I don't understand why we can't because I don't back any government. And uh so I'm not interested in this idea that criticizing Israel is is is the same as anti-semitism. I just I just don't understand that argument. It to be anti-semitic would be to hateful to >> depends on the arguments you use. I that's how I qualify it, right? You like you can agree that uh Benjamin Netanyahu is you know a mildly corrupt politician. >> Sure. >> Right. And that but you got to also if you >> did they officially find him corrupt at the trial or is that still ongoing? >> I think it's still ongoing. >> Okay. Well, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. >> Nothing. Right. When you actually look at it and dig into it, it's actually something nothing. It's it's it's like a big deal over nothing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like Mikey Sherman. Well, again, you know, she called Lloyd Burr a right? He is. >> Well, that's, you know, I don't want to say that because it's a porative. It's a slur. It's It's not a nice thing to, you know, >> you know, this is the thing I hate about the language. >> Yeah. Yeah. I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. >> Um, that's not what she got sacked for, right? It's >> Well, she got sacked because people didn't like her. people people didn't like her, especially her bosses. And the way that she behaved in pursuing her stories was against the rules of Parliament. And I know the Parliament sets up rules to protect themselves. Fine. But that's the rules of the of the game that you're playing. Yeah. Right. And so she you've been around long enough to know that. Look, you're working in a place I don't know how many jobs. You probably had a million jobs. I've had a million jobs. If your if your colleagues don't like you. And more importantly, if they don't like your work, >> you're out. >> You're out. And so when I look at the Mikey Sherman thing, because people, oh, it's not fair. I listen to Duncan Garner saying, "Look, I've done worse." Yeah, but Duncan, people like your work more. >> And a story, right? Like, and how do I know that? Because you're still there and she's gone. Yeah. So, you know, >> this is what the left never understand. It's like when I was attacked, right? They they said, "Oh, now people will stop reading them." >> No, now they're going to read you more than ever. >> They That's exactly what happened. Tucker Carlson. >> Yeah. They boosted my traffic. They uh the attacks on me was let's actually see what he's saying. Oh, I like what he's saying. I've got a loyal audience. And that's what they can't understand. That audience goes where I go. Yeah. If I head down a particular pathway, that audience will follow me down there. I'm not some pi piper person. They, you know, they like what I say. They like my analysis. They not like No journalist has got a following like that. >> Yeah. Well, also probably too what you'll find and what I'm finding is that they like what you say. Uh, you know, centrist.nz, they like what you say, but uh they're not they're not passive. They they're they're push back. >> You get push back and they're analyzing what you're saying. >> Yeah. >> And uh just to go back to the Israeli Palestinian because I want us I want us to get in trouble. I want us >> I want us to have a hard time getting on airplanes now. Um it's uh my concern with the Israeli Palestinian debate is that Israel is a nation that is very hard because uh Jewish people, my people, people like my mother um are very stubborn and uh they are very good at uh policing the the landscape. They just are right. Like much better than the Arabs are. Much better than the Arabs aren't useless at this. They're good at playing the game, too. you see in the states with that split between the Democrat and Republican is pretty impressive to me how as a machine the the the Palestinian interests were able to advance through the Democratic apparatus in the states and so because it used to be at a time I think Trump talked about this where uh the Israeli lobbies like Apac and whatnot had a pretty good grip on the whole situation left and right but it looks like they've really lost the political left in many ways in the United States and they're focusing on the right but my concern with the approach that a lot of um uh the the advocates of Israel will take is it's it's too zealous in the s there's a there's a great Arab expression says grasp all lose all. So if you try and block off any critique no matter how moderate or how mild it turns it it it becomes it becomes um you know uh counterproductive and that's why I would say >> that's why censorship is counterproductive. It's exactly the same methodology. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Oh we don't like what Tamim says so we need to stop listening to him. We need to make sure he doesn't have a platform. We need to um block him. Um we need to >> don't go to centrist.nz. Don't listen to me. Don't listen to this is the Martin Brebury thing, right? It's a it's a faright um hate speech blog. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Oh, let's see what this guy's say. >> All right. >> I'm right in there. >> Yeah. But that's how the that's the mentality of the left that is that's Oh, no. No. That's not approved speech. Oh, we No. Oh, we can't look over Oh, no. We can't look over there. Yeah. Everyone goes and looks over there. >> Exactly. And I I think uh Israel because and to be fair to to Israel, I do appreciate a lot of u I think Israeli media is some of the best and freest in the world. You can get the story like often times if you want to know what's going on in Israel. >> I do Times of Israel great public rights will be absolutely slamming the government, right? Same with Times of Israel. >> I think most of the media there is hard left in in in western terms, >> right? >> Um but you can get the story. the the the the press is free there. There is some censorship, you know, obviously of locations of >> um because Israel is so small, if you show a photo of something, it shows it can reveal a lot, right, very quickly. >> Um but my take on this is this is a liberal westernstyle democracy that is 1% of the entire rest of the Arab world. And the Arab world's upset about that little piece of land right there and wants to annihilate it. Except a lot of the Arab world is now realizing, well, we've been trying to do this since 1947 and it really isn't working. And that's why Egypt and Jordan were the first two countries to sign a peace deal with Israel. Um, now you're starting to see other countries, you know, with the Abraham Accords that are now like like the UAE and places like that are now going, okay, let's see if we can do something here. We're now talking about Lebanon and Israel signing a peace agree. Maybe peace will happen because of what's happened since October 7, you know, >> possibly. I hope so. I hope so. >> But I know that the mentality of Israelis is this. We have had enough of having our hands tied behind our back by the United Nations, by Western nations who say, "Oh, no, it's terrible. Um, it's disproportionate. It's this and all of these arguments that we never applied anywhere else." You know, did we win World War II by being proportionate to the Nazis? No. We won World War II by being disproportionate to the Nazis. Ask people who lived in Dresden what that was like, right? Same with Japan. We bombed Japan with two nuclear weapons, two atomic weapons, and we bombed them. That wasn't a war crime. They It was a a a response to make sure that the Japanese saw that victory was not possible for them. So, they surrendered. Every war that has ever been has had a victor and a loser. In the case of the Middle East, we've never let one side or the other win. >> Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah, let them >> The Western world has perpetrated perpetual warfare in the Middle East because they haven't let one side or the other win, >> right? >> We saw that with the Iran Iraq conflict. You know, the United States propped up Iraq because they wanted a bullwalk against the Iranians. >> You ended up with a 15-year war between the two countries that was fought over some swamp. >> Right. >> Right. Israel and and Palestine's the same issue. No one's allowed to win. The Palestinians on October 7 in in Gaza under the control of Hamas invaded Israel. They invaded a sovereign country with the desired uh result being the annihilation of the Jewish state and Israel said no. >> However, though just >> we're not going to do that and any more and and the two-state solution that everyone's been talking about since 1947, it's not going to happen and we're over it. But the problem with the the two-state solution is that I it's I don't think it'll work. >> It never works. >> Uh but I don't think Israel is going to come out if they're not careful, they are going to lose all. That's my concern. So that's why I'm like I'm not trying to be anti-Semitic. I'm trying to say, look, >> if if if you're if if you're driving drunk, okay, and you or you want to drive drunk, okay, who's your friend? The guy that punches you in the face and takes the keys or the guy that says, "Nah, you're great. Hop in that car. Let's go." Right? So, Israel is in my view acting in a way that could be construed as reckless. And the reason I say that is not because I'm there to say what's going on on the ground. But I see the way that they have to respond to Iranian propaganda, the narrative, right? How they have to explain, you know, like they call it Hasbra in uh in Israel, the explanation. Well, by the time you're explaining how something is or isn't a genocide to the lay person, you've lost, right? So, you're already on the back foot, >> right? If in politics you're explaining, you're losing. You're losing. Explaining is losing. It's like, you know, uh Luxen coming out and saying, "Well, we had a vote in caucus. Um I put it a confidence motion on the table of caucus and I and I won. >> Did you >> for now?" He brought that part. He brought that part. He won for now. >> But once once we're talking about your leadership Yeah. >> it never stops. >> That's right. >> Right. So, you're explaining now that you won that vote. He He didn't say unanimous. He didn't say uh overwhelmingly or he just said I won. >> Yeah. >> Which led to speculation about whether it was unanimous or not. Right. >> Right. >> Now, it can't have been unanimous. If it was unanimous, he would have said it. >> Well, yeah. >> Wouldn't you have said it? If you if you had a unanimous vote in your favor, wouldn't you say >> me being as dumb as I am probably would have forgot to mention that? I would I won and then just left it at that and everyone was Was it unanimous? Oh, yeah. It was unanimously. >> I won. It was a wonderful victory to a Trump, right? We we won. It's a it's a magnificent victory. >> Um just a just to talk about uh the perception of Israel in the Middle East. Uh it's funny because in uh Egypt there's a small town uh between Cairo and Alexandria that my my father's family has land and there's a village there called Damur. It's a very small town and uh on the farm uh there's a a fellow who uh runs the farm. He's the falah the the the the nadier the chief of the farmer is called uh and uh can't read can't write. Uh AW, you know, it's a it's >> that AW is the boss. >> Yeah, Aw's the boss. It's as much as a a peasant village as you could possibly imagine. And you ask Auds on Israel is, he loves them. Why do you love them? Because they beat up the Arabs. Because from Aw's perspective, the Israelis aren't oppressing him. The Arab government is oppressing him. You know, the the the Egyptian governmentthood, the Muslim Brotherhood is well, now Cece, but uh Cece is oppressing them. And uh and just to go back too, the problem that uh that I have with the narratives in the west is they don't account uh that this is a war. It's a war between Israel and Palestine. And in many ways uh you have to account for the fog of war. So even now we're finding with Hamas um I don't know if you heard this uh but I did know it from before but there is interests uh in Israel that have been funding Hamas at least partly and I know for a fact uh it was covered in the book by David Yalup uh about uh the terrorist Abu Nadal for many years ago that uh in the 80s uh Hamas was uh being allowed to pass through checkpoints uh that others were not because the Israeli government at the time it was in classic case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. >> Exactly. So in some ways you can argue is a defensible statement to say look in some ways this was engendered or encouraged just like al-Qaeda was encouraged by the US and ISIS. >> We've seen this many many times like Saddam Hussein was funded by the Americans to to act as a block to Iran. >> Right. We we've seen this >> we're creating our own problems is what I'm saying. We're creating our own problems. And when it comes down to Jewish guy, good on the defense, Arab guy bad on the offense. Even October 7th, I do think it's fair to say there are some questions. I know a person um she is Israeli and she did serve in the IDF. And when she found out about October 7th, her first question was who let them in? Because we're talking about something that now I haven't been there to tell you, but the late perception amongst many is that this is a highly um sophisticated security apparatus along that border. the fact that people could just get in there, no response from the IDF for many hours, whatever the story was. >> There's a there's a very complex story. We haven't got enough time to to get into it. Right. But I've looked at it and extensively. Yes. There's an element of counter inelligence by Hamas. That was great. >> Right. >> Right. They deceived the Israelis and had Fatar operatives in the West Bank creating uh a perception that something was going to kick off in the West Bank. And so a lot of forces were moved into the West Bank for that. And of course then Hamas invaded to time for those forces to then turn around and come back. Um basically strongholds had to hold off for about 24 hours or so. It was a close run thing, but it People said to me at the start, "Oh, this could be the end of Israel." I said, "No, just wait till the IDF gets going, right? Because when they get going, >> they're just going to roll over the top of them." And and that's what happened. But the mindset has changed now in the Middle East. It's changed particularly in Israel where then they know the United Nation is going to pass resolutions against them. They know that all of the bodies of the United Nations are against Israel. So they've just said, "Well, they're going to do what they're going to do. We're going to ignore it. We're going to play to win." And that's why they attacked Hezbollah. That's why they took out Hezbollah in Syria. That's why they took out the leadership in Iran. They've had enough. They're sick of being everybody's punching bag. And they just want to live in peace. And it's been said many, many times. Golden Mer famously said it when she said, "There'll be peace when Palestinians value their children as much as we do." as as long as peace and and doesn't mean your sovereignty is a threat to my peace. >> Yes. as long as that is not the case because I'm hearing rumblings now that Turkey is a threat and you know because the from the western perspective uh the western taxpayer is uh on the hook for a lot of this because where is Israel getting most of its funding you know or I shouldn't say most of it funding but a significant part of >> it thing because you also look at this idea of Palestinianism right that that came from the KGB right Arafat was trained by the KGB the Russian state uh communist state was very deeply involved in the creation of this anti-Jewish state uh opposition under Yas Arafad under the Palestinian Liberation Organization. They're all trained in Moscow. all of the documents. It's all well known. You you there's there's a it's been proven um with the documentation. >> I think it's absolutely reasonable to say that every single uh uh you know semi-state outfit in that region, the PFLP, the PLO, >> all of them would have had intelligence service involvement. How could it not be? >> That's right. And they did. and all of the countries around there, Syria, Lebanon, uh Lebanon to a lesser extent, but Syria definitely uh Jordan not so much, uh definitely Egypt, their equipment and their armed forces told you where their allegiances were. Right. >> Right. The the Egyptian um armed forces until they made the peace agreement with Israel was almost entirely Russian equipment from Yeah. from, you know, T-54 tanks upwards, always destroyed, always lost on the battlefield. Yeah. Uh same in Syria, all mostly Russian equipment, uh Chinese equipment, things like that. And then if you look at the weapons that Palestinians use, there's a lot of Marov pistols. There's a lot of, you know, of Eastern European armaments that flooded into those zones. So, there's elements of decades of cold war involvement. uh all of that, but even pre-colon, you know, pre-colonial involvement with the British and the French after World War I, all of that adds up. But history didn't end or start in in the partitioning of of Palestine. >> It goes back a long way further. You know, at one stage, Egypt had all of that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I'm not. >> At one stage, Alexander had all of that, including Egypt. >> The the whole region is the middle. Yeah. Right. So even you know that piece of land you say Israel if you look have you read the grand chessboard by Brazinski? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I thought that was a brilliant book because he flips the map upside down and shows you how the medi terraneian is truly middle earth. Like you can see it clearly once you flip the map upside down and it puts >> where where to comes from. >> Exactly. And um and now to be fair uh as far as New Zealand is concerned in all this, I personally have to say I've been impressed as a person who's got interest in both sides of this conflict if you will been quite impressed with Winston Peters as a foreign minister in this uh in this regard. Uh here is a guy who um you know he's dealt both to the Israelis and the Palestinians I think absolutely fairly. He uh took uh aim at uh Ben Giver and Smoltridge. they were considered persona non- grata and you can disagree agree with that that's fine but then at the same time he refused to play the game where we all recognize Palestine and put on the kafia and all this and uh I have to say and then it was very interesting that he was in the room uh now it's a bit of a you know pirick victory with this ceasefire because it's it looks like it's it's but there is some kind of deescalation in that but Marco Rubio uh met with Winston Peters and then a few hours later they declared the ceasefire it's not a perfect deal and I don't think it's necessarily holding Yeah, >> but you know what I mean? It looks like Winston Peters did have Rubio's ear at some point about this. He was invited to the White House to discuss and so I have to say New Zealand is punching above its weight with that guy. And uh what's your take on it? Am I reading it wrong? >> Yeah, I think he's he's been foreign minister so many times, you know. Um he's a true statesman. >> He's a true statesman. He actually is thinking about New Zealand's best interests, not his own best interest. People accuse Winston Peters of acting in his own best interests all the time. I've found the I've found the opposite with him, right? I've found that he he's still a politician. He's a nationalist, right? He he he definitely thinks that New Zealand is the best country in the world and could be better if only we hadn't taken some wrong turns somewhere or got off the freeway, you know, that was heading in one direction. >> Um, yeah, could he he's a politician, so he's flawed, right? >> You know what that that actually brings me back to centrist because people say accuse centrist of of not being centrist enough. And I would say it's not that we're centrist or not centrist. I think what we do is look at it from well my own personal politics would be civic nationalism. I consider myself a civic nationalist. >> Good to come back to the the centrist, right? Because people are saying who is the centrist? What what's behind the centrist? How did you get started in the cent? >> Well, funny story. >> So so co you're in New Zealand. >> I'm in New Zealand. You're looking for a job. I >> I'm out of a job. I'm a a prison guard from the Fraser Valley who's recently come into the country. Uh, and I'm a stay-at-home dad and it's lockdown and uh my wife uh she's working so she's carrying all of us. She's she's paying for all the diapers and all the beef jerky >> and so um uh there's um like a like a WhatsApp group or like a signal group. Yeah. That my wife was part of um that was just a bunch of very well-healed professional women discussing politics. And these were all women from the right side of town with a good education and and uh you know they're all discussing justinda and all this and the lockdown and co and the the the beginning of co the conversation was very sophisticated very mature very reasonable you know oh ladies I have doubts about uh this new announcement from the government but then as co wore on it was just like this really start to started to get vocal about it which was kind of funny and then so one night my wife comes to me actually you I'm going to tell you a story. Um, while I was in lockdown, I had uh I was playing I had money in the stock market and I had these speculative stocks that I was overinvested in that all collapsed. Okay? So, I was in lockdown. I couldn't leave this room and I'm watching my portfolio lose like 90% of its value. So, I'm like, "Okay, now I'm stressed. That's all my money. So, now I'm broke in the country." I thought I was coming into the country uh, you know, a wealthy man. Turns out that wasn't the case. So now I'm completely broke. And so I'm I'm, you know, and I say that to say my wife comes to me one night and she says, um, look, this uh the the ladies on my uh signal group are having a dinner. We weren't in lockdown at that moment. Um, and I'd like to go. Should I go? And I thought, you know what? I'm broke. I've lost all my cash. I'm flat busted. I need a job. I'm like, you know what? Go. And me being a sexist, maybe one of their husbands will have a job. I don't know what I was thinking. Maybe one of them will have a job for me. I'm not like Anyway, so that's so I thought maybe one of their husbands will have a job for me. And so um she comes back. She says, "Hey, I met someone at the dinner last night and uh we were talking and uh it turns out they know someone that is very interested in in setting up a website and and and um you know getting involved in media." And uh and the woman was saying to my wife uh my wife said, "Oh, I'm a journalist and oh, are you interested?" It's like, "No, no, you got to talk to my husband." "Oh, is he a journalist?" "No." "Uh, no, no, he's not. He just arrived in the country." "Well, what's he doing?" "Oh, he's a stay-at-home dad, so Oh, okay. Well, he had a journalist background." "Uh, no, he worked in a prison." Oh, well, then he studied journalism. "No, no, he used to be in a band. He's a musician." So, I was okay. So, then my wife was like, "Look, if you're interested in um in uh doing this, then uh just give him a call. You talk to him. You decide." So, uh, you know, it it was uh a contact of actually it turned out it was Jim Gren's contact and Jim Grennan is a Canadian. >> Yeah. >> But I didn't know I didn't know who he was from a hole in the ground and it just so happened. It was funny reading in the paper the Canadian billionaire was Canadian billionaire friends. It's like I was the Canadian billionaire friend of Jim Gren. >> I was reading the same thing thinking hang on I've had coffee with Jim Grennan several times and they lasted like three four hours each time. >> Yeah. Yeah. and and they and like Martin Bradbury is that Jim Grennan the the you know Canadian billionaire rightwing and and I I can remember sitting there talking with with Jim at the Takapuna Beach Cafe >> for hours on end and not having any gauge as to where his politics was. >> No, no, no, no. He's he's absolutely he's interested in in well at the time he's interested in fairness. And actually I did have a news aggregator site that I had based off of the Drudge Report called newscan.net net at the time because I really I always loved the style of Drudge. Didn't always agree with Drudge, >> but Drudge Judge Drudge changed. >> Yeah. A flip. >> I don't think it's him anymore. >> No, I don't think it's him anymore. It's It's gone left wing. >> Yeah, big time. >> Before it was kind of like here's a story. It's interesting. Here's another one that's from the same topic. It's interesting, too. And it was kind of in the middle. >> Well, and he would Yeah, I know. He was beguiling that way, right? He would just you'd send you up a wall because you think you had him nailed and he'd flip the script on you. But also, you remember when it was Drudge, he had that great style of photo where he'd just find, you know, like uh I don't know, be like a bad photo. >> Yeah, a bad it was brilliant. And actually, they got Well, I I try to do that, but they got rid of that with the new Drudge. That's one is a lot slicker now. So, it's a lot more conventional. >> I always try and find a like anytime I do a story about Helen Clark, I try and find the most evil looking photo of of her that I can find. Right. Like where she's like Darth Cidius. Yeah. you know, or or but like Emperor Palpatine. I always consider her to be the dark city of New Zealand politics. >> Shut those eyes, right? >> And the and the crooked teeth and and the pinched face, you know, >> and the politics is really, you know, like come to the socialist side. >> Um, same with John Key, right? He had some awkward photos and I'd use those, right? Or the best one I ever did though was Maggie Barry because she liked to think herself as you know this media darling that everybody loves and she decided to become a national national MP. She stood against somebody that I was helping. So I just called her New Zealand's most loved grandmother. But then I found a photo of her that was taken. She used to do her, you know, Maggie's garden show and all of that sort of. And there was this photo of her and she had all these wrinkles on her face and I use that every single time. And she actually came up to me and said, "Oh, came like I'd like to ask you a favor." I said, "Go ahead, ask." She said, "Oh, you call me New Zealand's um most loved grandmother." She said, "I'm not even a grandmother. Can you stop Can you stop calling me that?" And I said, "Why?" She said, "Well, it annoys me." I said, "Oh, good to know. Thanks." Well, you're the grandmother of New Zealand. How about that? Right. >> So, so you know, um, you can you can get under the skin of politicians with very tiny insignificant things. >> Well, I did feel bad for Justinda because, you know, people would, my wife, uh, you know, we were talking about, she said, well, people attack her appearance and all this only because they don't like her politics, right? Like they're not, you know, a lot of what is cast as misogyny is just that way to get you because they don't like your politics. Like if you're talking about the audience, they're not sophisticated where they're like, "Cam, I noticed your policy on taxation was not quite what I agree." They're going to be like, >> "Yeah, I would have thought we should have been discussing the gold standard here." >> Exactly. They're going to go after your t-shirt, your face, you know, whatever. >> I get it all the time. Oh, you're a fat pig. Yeah, you're a slob. Yeah. Okay. >> What they're saying is they don't like your taxation policy. That's what they're saying. >> But but Ardun would turn that and she would say, "Oh, you know, this is misogyny. You know, this is and to far now is doing the same thing. I was driven out of politics because people were against Mary. >> Tori did it. Tori did it. But did did Sa do it to be fair? Was she pulling? >> She get other people to do it. >> She got she get men to do it for me >> because because there because Mikey Sherman I think is going to be >> she's doing it too now. >> We'll see. Right. Like or is it her doing it herself or people doing it? >> She's doing it herself. You know I'm a wahini marau and now I'm being attacked because No, you're being attacked cuz you're Same with just >> they don't like your work. >> Yeah. They don't like your work. >> They don't like your work. That's what it is. It's not If you Look, I I was telling my >> They used to call Mold Dune Piggy Mold Dune, >> right? They didn't like his work. >> No, they had piggy banks at the ASB in the shape of his head. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. He was called Piggy Moldune. Did anyone say, "Oh, no. That's Miss Andrew." >> Oh, terrible. Of course they did. >> Fat shaming guy. >> Yeah. Fat shaming a guy. >> No, it's just it's just it you can't expect the lay public to have a sophisticated response to your That's that feelings thing we were talking That's why you need to be base. Like this is the thing that the left never understands. They have these and the ACT party actually ironically they have these lofty intellectual arguments that go sailing over the head of most people. Someone like Winston Peters or Shane Jones. Shane Jones a classic example. Oh, you don't really like this Indian FTA. Uh it's going to be a butter chicken tsunami. Right. Right. It's base. It's low. Um but it resonated. It was headlines for days about how terrible it was that Shane Jones said there was going to be a butter chickens tsunami. And you know what? He won the argument. He did. He won the argument. >> He did. And but you know, here's the thing with the butter chicken tsunami thing. The reason why people got offended. Um, and they were right because you can't really say it's racist, okay? But it's gross. >> It's gross. Like, can you imagine the next morning after the butter chicken tsunami when the when the butter chicken forms a skin and you got It's gross. And because people were saying to me, well to me it's like them saying to you, oh, you're from Canada. It's going to be a a maple syrup whiskey tsunami. It's like that's awesome. Like if there was if you told Kiwis there's a maple >> plate in the morning. >> If you told them there's a maple syrup whiskey tsunami coming, most people in this country would go outside. >> Yeah. >> They would. >> Yeah. They want to go look. Let's see it. >> Let's bring it wave. >> Butter chicken's gross, right? Like it's don't it's delicious in a dish, but if it's covering your furniture and your car for days, that's why people are upset. That's why I realized I'm like, it's not racist. It's just it's a gross idea. >> But it worked. >> It worked. >> It worked. And everyone's going he's a smart bugger. >> Not not too keen on the uh on on on the butter chicken tsunami. That's what that's all that people remember now. >> Yeah, that's true. That's true. Interesting. We looked into this with um uh centrists and um it was interesting because actually 23 24 and 25 were record years especially 23 for Indian migration and then uh you couple in the Indian FTA and I think that's what triggered people. So I don't think necessarily the FTA >> I think it's apparent more in Oakland than anywhere else. >> It's apparent in Oakland. It is apparent. It is apparent. It must be in the in the rural areas too. I'm sure there must be a lot of >> labor like peppi now, right? It's just covered all >> in butter chicken. >> Butter in butter chicken, you know, catch an Uber, right? It's it's it's a joke now. You know, it's either Muhammad in a white Prius or it's Sanjie in in in a white Prius. >> Well, that's the thing. I have a lot of empathy even though I'm a a migrant, b have Middle Eastern descent and you know, the whole bit. Um, I do have a lot of empathy um for the for the average Kiwi who feels unsettled by this. Let me tell you a story. Actually, in 2019, I happened to be in New Zealand during the Christ Church um shooting. Yeah. >> And I was here just before I'd moved permanently. We were here vacationing visiting the wife's family. >> I hope the SIS checked you out, you know. >> Yeah. >> Funny name. Got a beard. >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. They >> father's an Egyptian. >> I'll I'll be getting a phone call soon, I'm sure. Um but it was interesting because um the shooting happened and my wife being a writer uh said you know hey Tim you know you should write to the Herald and see if they want a piece from you. So I wrote to the Herald hey listen because people were coming up to me at the time and apologizing and I thought this is what are you apologizing for? But my wife suggested look you know people are really affected by this uh terrorist attack and and they feel deeply about it. You should write your opinion. So I wrote my opinion. Um the Herald uh I I I pitched the Herald. Would you like an opinion from me on this? My name is Berka. I'm married to Aki. I was raised a Muslim. Blah blah blah. And yeah, yeah, send us your opinion. And uh so I wrote them uh 600 words. And basically my position was look um people are coming up to me and apologizing. You don't need to apologize. And as horrible as this incident is, uh you know, first of all is an Australian that did it. So it's not even a Kiwi. But as horrible as this incident is, this should not quell the average Kiwi's um concerns around migration and cultural compatibility and things that was rejected. >> Well, that's the thing and you know because I have a lot of those same concerns too, right? like u a person who was raised uh a certain way because I was raised in the west so I didn't have a lot of the baggage and my my father uh prayed you know when we were young we prayed five times a day and fasted and you know all that and um but eventually uh as my father actually to his credit that that you know opened my eyes on this uh he abandoned a lot of the traditions and went he's like I'm just going with what the book says and so if you go by literally just what the book says a lot of Um what uh people have conflict with with what they call Islam is actually traditional cultural. It's actually nothing to do with the book strictly. The book itself is quite bare bones. You can have arguments about what it says and whatnot, but it's very straightforward. Like a friend sent me a Herald article and said, "Hey, is this what uh you know the book says?" It was like a story in the Herald from Nigeria where a woman uh blas blaspheied the prophet. They they they blasphemed against the prophet and so they lit her on fire, right? And uh because the the Islam demands that we uh you know do this and that and the other and so lit on fire. So just to make sure I was like, "Well, hold on." So I went because I think I missed that in the book. So I opened up the the book and I now you know if someone listens to this, they can go find the chapter and verse uh so I don't have the the the chapter verse memorized. But literally in in uh incidents of uh blasphemy uh the book itself, we're talking about the Quran says simply stop conversing with that person, not light them on fire. Right? So once you get away from what is cultural, the book is very straightforward. And what I see >> exactly the same in Christianity where the book is quite clear. >> It's pretty straightforward. >> Pretty straightforward. There's places to argue, but there are academic arguments we can have. They're interesting. >> There's various different denominations that take things to extremes. And that's the problem. >> Yeah. >> It's a people problem, not a book problem. >> It's a people problem. But what I see, and this is where I'm concerned, you've got unchecked migration from a lot of these Muslim countries, and they're bringing in a religion called Islam and >> and the ideology associated >> and ideology associated with it. And I'm not saying, you know, you should have beef with these people or whatnot, but I find a lot of our political leaders and especially ones on the progressive left will jump in and scream Islamophobia if you have real concerns about what you're seeing. And it's not that there can't be um interesting discussions. >> Sometimes they're cultural um differences as well. Like in a lot of these countries, not necessarily Islamic countries, but also uh in the subcontinent. >> Yeah. >> Corruption is endemic. >> Yeah. It's it's part of the culture. Yeah. >> And if you're bringing those people here, you're importing a cultural acceptance of corruption. >> Well, you also have to appreciate that like often times in the west, be it Canada, New Zealand, they treat uh culture as an afterthought. What's what seems to be most important is um you know, the person uh has some kind of employability and they're paying their taxes or something like that. But the idea of maybe they should have the national language at a certain level or maybe they should have the values embedded in their character at a certain level that seems to be secondary. And I think we need to I I say this as a person who was raised in a in a in a religion that was not the mainstream. >> Maybe that needs to be rethought, right? Because you want some cultural compatibility. But if you try and have a here's what I think is going to happen. This is my own prediction about the future. I think at a certain point uh you're going to have to have uh people in the west, people like yourself read the Quran. And I mean read it like not because like oftentimes my problem is um I don't like the way the discussion happens because you there's so much uh tamping down of what should be an open discussion about uh what this book says or what that book says and it turns into just hate. Like people say, "Oh, look at the Quran here. It says kill everyone that's not a Muslim." It does not say that. So, there's a guy um I've seen his videos on X. I'm sure it's on Tik Tok as well. He's Jewish. He engages with people on like a Zoom call. Oh, >> yeah. >> Um usually with with Muslims and he gets out of them a position, >> right, on Israel or on Jews or or whatever. And then >> he he he's he's a Quranic scholar. Oh, yeah. >> Right. He speaks Arab fluently. >> Oh, there you go. Right. Uh he swaps between English, Hebrew, and and uh Arabic. >> What's his name? >> I I can't remember his name. Send me the link. >> Yeah, I'll send you a link to one. It's very fascinating. And then he steps them through what the Quran actually says. >> That's right. >> And then gets them to admit that the Quran says that. You look at it. He says, "Look it up yourself." And they see them, they're looking it up, they go, >> "Yeah, >> that's not what we've been told." >> Exactly. And this is not what we've been told. And then they twig because in the Quran it clearly says in the Quran that Israel as a place should exist. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. However though, here's the rub though. Um because uh it says Israel should exist. I think that's in chapter 5 that Israel is the land of the Jews. But it does put condition on it. >> Yes. >> So and I think this is where >> but the conditions are not that ownorous. >> Well, don't uproot their trees. Don't evict them from their homes. Right. But it does put condition. And I think this is where I'm saying that I think um Israel because Israel would know that. >> Yes, they do. >> And they should be blasting that from every speaker. The State Department of the US knows that. But they don't propagandize that because I think they prefer the version that doesn't put condition. But I think that's a segment of the Israeli society that pushes that idea. point saying is that if you actually take a Muslim who's been told >> certain things and educate them slowly on just a small piece of it that the book doesn't say that >> that that's how you start to change >> views >> there's lots of things in the book like for example religious policing is not allowed right like I'm not allowed to go into your house and see oh you know >> which is what's happening in Iran exactly >> or Afghanistan or places like that where they have religious police >> yeah or parts of Brooklyn Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um but uh you know so there's a big divide between what the book says and what people are doing. And I think there has to come a time where the westerner with with with an analytical mind not sort of this gotcha mindset that I see in a lot of >> he doesn't do it as a gotcha. >> It's not a gotcha thing. And I don't think that helps because uh >> it's the same as as someone tries to do that with the Bible and go gotcha. >> Yeah. >> You believe in the flying spaghetti monster. You know it's it's the same sort of thing. It doesn't work. >> It doesn't work. And you'll find that uh the Quran is a lot more um uh easygoing. And you know, my father said on his deathbed, he said, "Look, if people were to follow this book the way uh you know, I suspect it should be followed, you'll find it leads you back to a a perfectly secular society." That's what he told me before he died. And that really struck, you know, that struck an accord with me because I think he's I think he's right. I've had time to study it in English and Arabic. And I'm not a perfect follower of the faith here. I'm not like some, you know, leader telling people what to believe. It's just I just know what I know and I can look at the Muslim and say, "Ah, I'm not with you." And I can look at the the Christians and say, "Sorry, I'm not with that either." But I think what needs to happen is there needs to be a real discussion. >> There needs to be a common humanity. >> A common humanity and and a and a you know, because like Jesus is the most quoted more than um Muhammad in the Bible is the most quoted, you know, and I immaculate birth is there. There's far more to common ground here than I think a lot of people. That's what Donald Trump was trying to do with the Abraham Accords. >> Yeah. >> Saying that >> we've got the Bible. We've got uh we've got the Talmud. We've got all of these things. You've got the Quran. >> Yeah. >> You're all people of the book. >> All Well, that's what the Quran says. People of the book, >> people of the book all descended from Abraham. >> Yes. >> Right. Because but many people many Christians don't understand is that Islam was a split from Abraham and his sons. One son went one way. Ishmael went one way and David and all the others went the other way. >> And so once you understand that and you're all from the that's what I think what Trump was trying to say with the Abraham Accords. Well, if the person like and to be fair to the to the Christians out there, it's hard to get a copy of the Quran that translates it in a way unless you study the Arabic, which isn't the hardest thing in the world. It sounds like a quite a feat, but if you want to study the Quranic Arabic, it works on like Hebrew, a root system. >> So, once you understand the root system, which is fairly straightforward, a dedicated student probably could start translating the Quran for himself with a dictionary um in about I'd say 18 months of study. >> So, the AI could probably help with that. Yeah, >> a AI could do it. But there is I will drop one thing. If there is somebody listening that's interested in what we're saying, I would say look up a translation by an Englishman named Sam Garens. This is a very good copy of the Quran. He has the best translation I think out there because he uses a heristic model where he says, "Look, let's assume the book is complete and detailed in and of itself. So every time we translate the word, we're not going to shift the meaning to suit the traditional version of Islam. Oh, let's translate this." >> That's why Bible study is the same, right? You've got to I often say in study what was the what was the Greek word right >> in this because the Bible was mostly written in Greek. What was the Greek word? Because there's three or four different words in Greek for love. >> Right. >> Right. There's one word in the English language. >> Yeah. >> So you you need to know what the root word was. >> You need to know what the root word was and at least you can make your own mind. And I think what we have the advantage of is you've got the Torah, you've got the Bible, and now you've got the Quran. So you can study the three. Yep. And where they agree, we agree. >> Yeah. >> And then where they disagree, well, let's let's have a coffee. Let's chitchat about it. Let's argue. We'll see who's got the best. >> You see, this is this is this is your belief, right? This is what what I'm showing people now is what your core belief is, which then translates into what you're doing at the centrist, >> right? >> You're looking for the common ground in the story, the centrist view, and presenting that as news. Well, we're trying to be the centralizer to the news because you take somebody RNZ, it's on it's so far left on on such a routine basis that to to reframe a story, you can't help but look biased because you're reframing their story and surfacing leads they're trying to bury. Um, we just had an example of this. What was it now? Uh, there was a story that they ran. I'm trying to think of it. um it'll come to me. But oftent times every time I read a story on uh on RNZ, I think to myself, hold on a minute. Let's just >> what's what's the what what are what are what's their agenda? What are they trying to drive? >> Okay. I remember the story now. It was the abolition of the Ministry of the Environment. You've heard of this? >> I read it yesterday and I was thinking this isn't an abolition of the Ministry of Environment. This is a merging of a bigger uh organization that will include the Ministry of Environment. That's >> an increase of reporting. >> That's why I tweeted or put on Twitter yesterday, this is just a bureaucracy building a bigger bureaucracy, >> right? But >> which I'm opposed to, not the not the the that they're going to get rid of the Ministry of Environment. >> They said the bureaucracy is extending itself. >> Yeah. But to be fair, uh, if you read the RNZ framing, oh my goodness, with all >> terrible, it's gonna be, we're gonna have poisons flowing into the rivers. But if you actually dug deep on the report, and this is where Centress comes in, the report that they were citing that was calling for the abolition of the um, ministry was also calling for an increase in the amount of reporting on the environment that would go to the minister, this new minister that they're proposing. So, in some ways, you could argue they're strengthening environmental regulation. Uh, but you don't get that from RNZ. And the reason I suspect you don't get that from RNZ is because they're ideologically opposed to this government, >> which I think is for a state broadcaster not appropriate. So, where centrist comes in, it's not like we're arguing for against, but you're going to read us and be like, "Oh, well, these guys have the opposite take." Yeah. It's in relation to the far-left bias of RN Zed. So we become a centralizer and we never say read just us at the end of every summary. >> You provide the link to the source. >> Go read it yourself. Yeah. Go read it and and we try and hyperlink the report itself. You can read it yourself. And if we're wrong >> and that's that was what Jim Grennan was trying to do from the outset. >> That's what we were trying to do from the outset. And uh >> and everyone badmouths the centrist and Jim Grennan and you as being this far right you're clearly not far right. >> No clear being the villain though. It was kind of fun being villain, the villain. Well, I do believe that um government can't solve your problem. Like one of the one of the things, one of the things that I really, you know, and we haven't touched on it, but one of the things that really gets my goat is um you know, the idea of racism and this liberal left-wing uh smear on people of racism. And you know, as a person on the outside, like a a person of Jewish and Arab extraction, I can kind of comfortably sit outside of your racist um accusation because I'm not the big white villain here. That's you know what I mean? But what I what I take offense to is it I know for examp like if I call you a racist that's a highly offensive thing and yet it is routinely used uh against people on the right when >> to silence them >> to silence them when in reality the real racism in this country as far as I can tell and you I'm going to say it here I think it's coming from the left >> it's that low bar in fact I saw this um uh uh Ryan Bridges had Marma Davidson and Seymour on and there was this uh incident of uh and people yelling and I think though the the Michelle Malapula the new green candidate that's coming to the four called uh Seymour a piece of >> Yeah. >> Right. And uh Seymour uh said >> and she and it'll be she'd find it hard not to punch him in the face. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And and uh which is that's inexcusable. But uh Bridges asked Seymour, "Are you offended by this?" And this was at the end of the segment. And Seymour said no. It's really sad. He said, "The important thing here is that you hear this from the left where they think that, and I'm paraphrasing Seymour, but they think that this sort of abusive language is necessary because they're speaking for the disenfranchised. Like somehow the poor and the oppressed peoples need this foul language, low standard." And right then and there, Marma Davidson cuts them off and makes some joke about, well, you should hear how foul-mouthed they are in Parliament and all this nonsense. And the point is lost. But Seymour is right. The left in this country, >> not just this country, >> not exactly because I saw this now. The reason I bring this up, >> you're seeing I call it stochcastic terrorism. It's an right where you get all these politicians saying Donald Trump is evil. Donald Trump is a fascist. Donald Trump is a dictator. Donald no kings. Donald Trump, you know, is this and all of these things. What they're saying is this is a bad man. >> Yeah. And once you establish that someone is a bad man, then what you do to that bad man is justified. >> Yeah. Of course. Of course. >> We're seeing the same thing here. The leftwing uh particularly Maui politicians uh accusing everybody else of being racist, of being in genocidal, genocidal, all of these things to justify exactly what you said, the foulmouthed things that they say, which then ultimately leads to actual violence occurring. >> Yeah. And but that that yes, and that that's going to be a huge problem, especially as economic conditions grind tighter and people feel more to the bone. But that idea that uh I'm down with the people because I drop fbombs, I find that well, frankly, I find that racist because it is because you hold these people to a lower standard and you certainly don't accept patronizing. It's patronizing. That's what it is. I saw this in the jail actually because in uh in the in the jail uh when I was a corrections officer on the floor uh I remember one incident in particular we had people called elders and you know in Canada you got >> creepy right >> yeah exactly well it's it's you know it's supposed to be Aboriginal elder but in traditional Aboriginal society that title is bestowed upon you by the community but in the Canadian government it's a job like you're an Aboriginal elder you're hired here's your pay scale so you have elders that are supposed to be sort of advocates for the original population because there is an um a higher uh disproportionate number of Aboriginal people in the jails and >> because of because of colonialism >> because of colonialism. Um yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um well >> the white man's poison. >> It's it's Yeah. But anyway, in this one that's a whole other argument, but in this one instance we had uh one inmate who was really having a meltdown. And you know what? To be fair, a lot of these people in maximum security prison is a high stress environment for a lot of these people. So, >> well, they usually got addictions of some sort. addictions, huge stresses in their life, >> huge mental health issues associated because of the addictions or or as a result of those >> big time. >> Huge. >> Yeah. But the but the thing that I took umbrage with was she was having uh you know a full-on uh meltdown. EP bombs everywhere just acting out. But uh the elder comes in and says, "Well, um it's okay because that's her culture." And the idea was Aboriginal culture uh is a part and parcel to having uh f-bomb meltdowns. And I thought that's it's exactly what Seymour was saying because the person that told me that was coming from that far-left university social justice mindset where you know, oh this person we don't hold them to any kind of standard. >> Don't hold them to account. >> We don't hold them to account. It's not their fault. No personal responsibility. So fbombs and and low language and violence >> violence and low standards, it's all okay. I wouldn't accept that for myself, mind you, but for them it's okay. That's racist. And this is the kind of racism that I see pervasive through the New Zealand mainstream media establishment. Nobody talks about it. You know, people like yourself talk about it, but it's I think it's not talked about enough. Uh these politicians are just >> It's not just politicians. politicians, media and academics >> that are in a subset of left-wing >> Yeah. >> thought processes. >> Yeah. And it's out to lunch. >> It it is completely out to lunch. Now, we've used up a good 90 plus minutes chatting away. I hope that as a result of this, people can understand better where you're coming from with the centrist. >> O, I don't know. I forgive them if they don't. >> I mean, you know, I think I think, you know, when we've had coffee and and sat around chatting, it's always been conversations like this, right? Deep >> uh talking about, you know, very complex things um and going on for hours, >> very glibly. >> You got to laugh, right? You got to laugh. >> I learned in the jail, man. You got to laugh. Everything is funny. If you don't have a sense of humor, your head's going to explode. >> And that's the way I've always uh taken politics in New Zealand. Yeah, >> that's why I've been effective at what I do because I try and inject a bit of humor into it. Even if it's dark humor or black humor, it it's still humor. >> Well, I came from a music background. You came from a hardcore political background, but I have a feeling if things were different, you would have been into a punk band. >> Uh yeah. >> What kind of music did you like growing up? >> Growing up, I listened to a lot of Sex Pistols and Clash, surprise things. I'm a bit older than you. >> Um >> I listen to sex. Then later on a bit of bit of metal, you know, AC/DC and things like that. But it was all sticker to the man type stuff, right? >> Yeah. >> And it's kind of funny cuz my father's definitely not a sticker to the man type person. He he's always been a stickler for rules and you know, he was the president of the National Party. Um, and I've always said the rules, right? Rules are a restriction. I don't like restrictions. I like freedom. Um, so that's I found it very liberating during during co because I could stick it to the man and embrace my freedom thing and I've just carried on doing that. So, >> um, you know, and and it's it's brought it actually brought people like you and I together >> to share ideas. Um, I know that some of your ideas have rubbed off on me and I hope some of my ideas have rubbed off on you. >> Yeah, absolutely. I've uh it's it's really good because one of the things I was I was always interested in politics and whatnot and I was when I was in Canada, I really appreciate the time that I worked in corrections uh because you really felt like you're doing something positive for people because it was a u it was a very um unique environment. It was not just a prison but a prison for women >> and and nothing's black and white in prison. >> Nothing's black. The walls are porous. But I remember saying uh man I would really like to because when COVID came I was a pain to a lot of my co-workers because I was like this is like can you all see what they're doing to us here a scam and it was you so my co-workers are like hey man we're here for 12 hours together can you just so I was complaining um to my wife at the time that man I I have to get myself to a position where I'm having those conversations that I want to have with people who want to have them. >> Yeah. And God bless, here I am, you know, and so it's like from my lips to God's ears. And then all of a sudden, I'm in New Zealand and we had this media platform. And I remember thinking, man, just try that again, guys, with the COVID lockdowns. Let's see what Let's see how far you get now that we have our own platform to sort of, you know, we're not just beating our heads against the wall going crazy. >> The world's changed and it's changed for the better. The media and not the gatekeepers anymore. >> Yeah. And that's why they that's why you're seeing the outrage about Mikey Schuman because they she got taken down a by her own actions and b uh by somebody outside of the system who said this isn't right. >> Yeah. >> And that's that's the new world that we're living in. And I've been living in that world for 20 years. 20 plus years. >> It's catching up to you. >> Yeah. That's right. >> It's catching up to you. Yeah. >> So I'm enjoying it. And um and I hope you're enjoying it as well. >> Yeah. I feel like it's catching up to me. I really feel like politics is a lot like musical genres and a lot of these people on the far left that are preaching the social justice, it's like it's to me that sounds like disco. It's like it's it's so over and in the future that's going to be so like oh really you're into that back then really you know whereas I think we are now our brand of politics where it's a little more well centrist for lack of a better word. >> It's actually more real. It's what real people are thinking and doing and acting, right? >> It's it's going to be a lot more in vogue. It's going to be, you know, I imagine one, you know, in the future, you're going to have all these old liberals that are going to be like out at a restaurant and they're going to say something about the white waiter and they're they're like, you know, their kids going to have to, sorry, my mom's old, she didn't mean that comment. You know what I mean? Like all this stuff that we're just >> it's just >> Anyway, to me, it's been a real pleasure. I've thoroughly enjoyed this discussion and I hope I hope everyone else is going to uh look at the centrist and yourself. >> Centrist.nz. >> Yeah. Centrist.nz uh with completely new eyes. >> Yeah. Hopefully a better set. >> Yeah. >> Thank you very much, Cam. I really appreciate it. >> Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you. >> Hey, now welcome to the show where the wind's blowing strong and the truth can flow. This is the good oil. Catch a vibe today with cancer leading us all the way from the