The Fundraiser Is Gone—Will the Donors Follow?

Hey, welcome back. It's fundraisers Friday. I have missed you, Tony Bell. >> I have missed you, too, Julia C. Patrick. It's so good to see you. Happy Friday. >> Happy Friday to you, my friend. Um, I was in London working on this show. We had um uh nonprofit power week. I we we had a lot of things going on and so I have missed you and I have missed your wisdom and especially with this topic. >> It's a big thing. >> Yeah, I'm I'm really looking forward to today's conversation. >> Yeah, it's really interesting. You know, um this is something that you and I have talked about publicly and privately. um Association uh of fundraising professionals says all the time that the average tenure of a of a professional fundraiser, one of their members, not just the general, you know, ecosystem, >> doesn't stay on the job more than 19 months. And so there's a lot of churn and burn. And we really want to talk about some of the things behind this. And we're going to talk about that donor portfolio. Should it stay or should it go? Um, so again, amazing conversation today here on Fundraisers Friday and we have support to have these conversations from our presenting sponsors. They include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Staffing Boutique, JMT Consulting, Third Sector Company, your part-time controller, and the newest member of our supporting family, Martis. I'm Julia C. Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. More importantly, I'm joined by joined by Tony Bell, Mr. Nonprofit Consultancy. >> Well, thanks Julie. I don't know that it's more importantly, but it's again just always such a pleasure to be here on Fridays and to have these conversations with you. So, thank you again for the opportunity. >> Well, you are welcome. It's I really look forward to our conversations, Tony. And I want to start off with this AFP code of ethical standards um that specifically states donor data and portfolios belong to the nonprofit. I think this is going to shock a lot of people because people will be like, whoa, hold up. I created that portfolio. I stewarded that portfolio. These are my relationships. Um, you know, I hear fundraisers say all the time, they don't even know the CEO, but they know me, right? The fundraiser. >> That's a whole another show. If we have >> if we have major donors, uh, you know, mid-level to high-end donors that don't know the name of your CEO, then then we we need to have that conversation as well. What you said was really interesting, Julia, in that it's true as fundraising professionals, we are out there, you know, looking for folks that want to invest in solutions for our communities. Uh, and we do that on behalf of, as the ambassador of, as the champion of, not as the owner of. Uh and so I think that that's really important for folks to remember uh is that we're out there doing this work on behalf of an organization that has a great mission and that is you know solving the needs of of our community. No one owns a nonprofit. >> Right. >> Right. And and that's a whole another show too because I had someone once who uh had become the chair of the board of a nonprofit and they were like well can I like can we sell this nonprofit like like am I you know as the board chair am I now the owner and you know so it's very interesting again it kind of comes down to that you know you don't know what you don't know uh but but I was I was a little taken by oh you think you own this and now you can sell Uh >> so uh so yeah so the donor data and portfolio belongs to the nonprofit. It belongs to the organization that's compensating you to bring in investors to support the mission. So you don't you don't own the data. You don't own the portfolio. Uh you may in many ways own the relationship because that's your role. Uh >> but but you don't you don't own any of it. uh in in the sense that it's mine to give or take away. >> Well, you know, Tony, this is where I think this is part of a cultural issue and nomenclature at the same time because we always say we want our teams to own, you know, the issue and we want you to, you know, own the responsibility and own the, you know, mission and all this. But then we we don't really understand almost like an IP an intellectual property piece. And I mentioned this to you in the um green room, but I think with so many nonprofits and hey, I mean Bloomerang, one of our great sponsors that we have put these CRM together that allow us a lot more access to this information. And I can see where you could be a disgruntled employee or you're thinking about your next opportunity and you're like, look at this gold I've created. Look at these relationships that I've created and so I'm going to I'm going to use this to move forward. It's kind of a conundrum, right? >> Yeah. No. No. No. It No, it is for sure. And that's why, you know, when when folks leave an organization, especially if they leave abruptly, you're like, "Oh, shut them down." like they got to cut off all the access right away, right? >> And I think we're going to talk a little bit about, you know, some of that uh through today's conversation. Uh but I like what you say though because it is true that in the work uh often we hear leaders say, I need to you to own this piece of the pie or I need you to own this, you know, this process. Uh and so I can see where some folks might think, well, I do own it. Uh, but again, I would say there's there's different interpretations of of how we own something, I think. Yeah. But but I I'm glad you brought that up because I was I was sitting here saying, you know, I've heard that many times and and I may have even said just just in the spirit just in the spirit of empowerment. I may have said to someone, you own this in the spirit of empowerment, but not in the spirit of it's yours to give or take away. >> Right. Right. And I think that's I love that you said that because that's really true. And if you've ever been a part or around um an organization that's in sizable enough to where there are multiple portfolios being managed, there's nothing more competitive and dare I say vicious than those fundraisers going up against one another when they're like, you know, I've been in I've seen this in meetings when they're like, I want to take this this client or this contact off your portfolio. IO and put it into mine because I can see you've not made any contact with them and I just chatted with them at this event last week or their kid goes to school with my kid or you know searching for these webs of of personal connection. It gets real dicey real fast. It it it does and and and that's where I always kind of lean into the you know the difference between being really proud of the work that you do and having an ego around the work that you do. uh and and so you know for the betterment of the organization and the betterment of the community if I need to move a donor from my portfolio over to somebody else's because they have a warmer relationship or something in the landscape has changed then I should do that willingly because it's the best thing for the organization and the best thing for the community not because it's going to all of a sudden disrupt my you know my ability to reach goal. >> Right. Right. And I think this is where you need strong leadership, which again is another thing, you know, that development director position. Um, oftentimes in organizations, that's something they do. >> You know, they manage they manage the bullpin, if you will. Um, you can tell I'm in my baseball mode right now. >> I could tell. I could tell. I'm waiting for you to throw me a curveball. >> Well, I am, honey. I am because this is the next curveball. So get up your your big pitcher your catcher mitt. So what >> butterfly? I don't know. >> Tony catcher. Come on. Come on. >> Softball. I don't know. Okay. >> Good lord. Good lord. Um I'm gonna come to Florida or bring you to Arizona just so we can do baseball or spring training because we got to get we got to get you up to speed on this, my friend. So let's talk about that curveball. And that is when you are a successful fundraiser, you are going to have relationships that have come with you maybe from previous organizations um that are a part of that journey. Dare I say this is based on trust. They like relationship that you >> you know cultivated. And Tony, I'm thinking about this now multigenerationally like, yeah, these fundraisers that worked with the grandparents and now the adult kids and then they see, you know, even nextgen philanthropists coming up. This isn't just a a oneshot deal. This is now becoming multigenerational. >> How do we factor that in? >> Yeah. Well, I I look at this through two different lenses, and there may be three or four lenses, but for today, I'm just going to stick with two. Uh, so I think about the individual donor, but then I think about the corporate relationships as well. >> And so, you know, uh, and so I would I'll start with the easier one, which are the corporate relationships, right? Yeah. >> Those those I feel less icky about my technical term for the day. when the when you move that relationship from organization A to organization B. >> Yeah. >> Because whoever is the community service representative or whoever that contact is for the corporation really is available to anyone in the community >> and and so you know those kind of that I I understand and and support uh more so than I do the individual donor. But to your point, especially when we talk about high-n networth individuals, that trust is super important. And for some folks, their philanthropy is so altruistic that they just want to make a difference. It doesn't matter if it's pets or babies or or, you know, finding a cure or providing housing or supporting, you know, food insecurities. They just want to do good. And so I think that those folks that are again so altruistic in their giving uh can very easily move with a development professional because of the the very trusted relationship that they have with them. They know that the the funds are going to be you know allocated appropriately and you know and and that there's there's good fiscal responsibility and integrity and transparency with this professional. So, I'm going to trust that where they're going is is a worthy mission and and is making an impact in the community. And I feel good about supporting them and supporting their success in that new role. And I think we're going to talk a little bit too about how we navigate that conversation when somebody is is leaving. Um, but again, we don't own the donor, >> right? Uh, so if a donor decides that, you know, I no longer want to give to pets because my friend Julia is now over here, you know, working with feeding the poor. Uh, you know, that's my decision to make as as a donor. And it doesn't necessarily mean that I've had a bad experience. I'm just going where I feel um there's a tremendous amount of trust that exists with someone and I can continue along my philanthropic journey. You know, you said something that kind of gave me the shivers and that was something I hadn't really thought about was that corporate environment and I think that that was like eyeopening to me because you know these corporate partners they have to report out this is not just benevolence they have to report out in a marketing capacity in an impact capacity in you know stewardship of that relationship. ship. And I've got to believe if you've been working with somebody, a fundraiser in the community and you're, you know, in that corporate stewardship mindset, if you found somebody that you know is always going to get you the information that you need, is always going to be responsive, knows how you do things, it could be as simple as they can fill out the paperwork, right? I can see where that might generate a follow mentality. for sure. And and corporations now are so much better at identifying what it is that they want to support. So even though even though I might have a great relationship with with a corporate representative here, it doesn't necessarily mean that when I move to a new organization that that mission aligns with their giving priorities. Right. So there's there's also that component. It's just there's no guarantee. >> No. No. I'm on I'm on both side. I really um appreciate you bringing that up because I think that's really really interesting. Um I want to get into some of the specifics and you you kind of brought this up and that's asking the question is what if a donor has a genuine relationship and we use the word trust you know and they want to follow that um you know that professional fundraiser. What does that look like? I mean, should the fundraiser declare that or advise the organization that they're leaving? I mean, how do we navigate and I loved you said the ick because it's unc this is going to be uncomfortable. >> Yeah, it it can be uncomfortable, but I don't think it has to be uncomfortable. Uh, and you know, I mean, if if I had a dollar for every time I've said nuance on on these shows, uh, I would be joining you in London the next time. But, uh, >> you know, again, there's so many nuances around it. If if we are in meaning the collective way, uh, as a fundraising professional, I have an opportunity uh, with another organization uh, and I accept that opportunity. Now, we need to have a conversation around what is that exit strategy? How are we going to notify staff? How are we going to notify stakeholders and key donors? And I'm I'm trying to make sure I'm positioning these responses, you know, regardless of the size of of the or of your organization for anyone that's watching or or listening. Uh but if you if you have that runway because someone has said okay I you know I will need to leave in two weeks or four weeks and now what is what does that transition plan look like? Um we know just based on our own experience I don't have statistics but it is highly unlikely that they're going to have a replacement for you in two weeks. >> Exactly. No highly unlikely. Uh so then you have to think about who is going to manage the relationship in the interim >> right >> and make those introductions so that you know the transition is as seamless as possible uh for you know for your donors and and your investors. So that's the first thing I kind of wanted to talk about is if you have that runway someone has given you notice uh then you know you need to put that action plan in place and that's going to require meetings and phone calls and collaborative zooms or inersons you know whatever that might look like for your your organization. Uh you need to be mindful too and think about what if you know your top fundraiser wins the lottery today. Now, one, you're hoping you're gonna get this great donation from them, right? But the other thing is they're coming in. They're calling you tomorrow and being like, "Guess what? Love you. Gotta go." >> Right. >> And, you know, and then, you know, having but but still trying to manage that conversation with that fundraising professional and saying, you know, can you do some introductions before you go? And, you know, or or again, you may have to call the donors and advise them. But the important thing is that there is a communication strategy in place and a way to inform your major donors. You really don't want them learning on LinkedIn or Facebook that the person that they have been so connected to with your organization is now sitting in another seat somewhere else. >> Right. And I I agree with you on that and I can imagine I mean you said this brilliantly when we first got started is like that's that whole thing lock it down take down their email take you know don't let them have access it is the fear the fear is real and I can be I can see somebody saying my gosh you are not allowed to talk anymore to any donors you know that you know seizing that up which is such a bad attit to >> it. It is it is too it is really too territorial in my opinion. >> Yeah. It it's not it's not the right approach and you know and we talk a lot about you know donor management systems and we're fortunately to you know fortunate to have Bloomerang as as a sponsor uh and and I know organizations worry worry about the use of that and the access of those especially for folks that are are on their way out. I mean, it doesn't take a whole lot of time, especially if if you, you know, have these reports already set up to hit export and within a matter of minutes, your fundraising professional that's leaving now has, you know, the contact information, you know, for everybody. Uh, and that's just bad acting for any fundraising professional that would do that uh before they leave an organization. That just screams of a lack of integrity. Um, and so I'll just blatantly, you know, call that out. Uh but you know, going back to some of the one of the earlier slides, if you have that deep relationship with a donor uh that might want to follow you, you're going to know how to get hold of them without having to, >> you know, >> yeah, >> take or steal the and I'm gonna I'll use the word steal. You will not have to steal the information uh from your organization if you have that level of relationship. >> Okay. Another curveball that I'm pitching at you. Get up that catcher mitt. Um, is have you ever seen I think I've asked you this question maybe like five years ago. Have you ever seen an organization that has a like a fundraiser policy aside from the AFP ethics guideline and some of these discussions, but that has something upfront so that when somebody comes in as a fund raiser of in the fund development team that they understand what some of these acceptable practices are and protections? Well, I I have seen Yeah, that's a that's a great question. I don't know that I've seen anything, you know, again, as detailed as as and I I looked at the AFP site just prior to us coming on board and wow, it's more robust than it was the last time I took a >> totally >> the the different categories and there's like 40 bullet points of Yes. and and and so, >> you know, bravo because it's all there. So if somebody needed something, they wouldn't have to go and recreate the wheel because AFP Global has done an exceptional job of creating these these standards. Uh I know and I know from my experience and even recently uh it's not unusual for there to be guidelines around you know intellectual property and and confidentiality around organizational uh information. So I think some of what we're talking about is probably covered in in those documents that state that you know the work that you do here and this information is propriet you know proprietary to us right >> yeah and and you're right I mean I mentioned that I think in the um in the green room before we got started AFP is really leaning into this really leaning into this and I I love that they're doing it I think it's really smart and so you're right. You can go to to AFP Global and you can learn. >> Also, I want to robust >> call out that you are the um current AFP board chair for Broward County. Correct. >> That is correct. >> So, I mean, you're like in there. You're doing this work. >> It's like a full-time job. >> Yeah, I'm sure it is. And I want to say I want to say thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We need more people like you across the country doing this. Um, okay. So, we we don't have a lot of time left, but we we touched on this. >> I know. I'm like, what? Um, we talked about this about how do we communicate to communicate to let people know that changes are happening? Do we just let it ride or do we say, "Hey, I'm leaving." Because you're right, we're not going to necessarily have a handover or should we? I mean to say >> Yeah. I mean, you know, again, just kind of thinking of our of our audience. Some organizations will have, you know, the the >> team >> the human resources, right, to be able to hand it off, you know, totally or or again have someone really support the the transition until someone else comes in. Uh but you I like you know I like the no surprises rule and so I think that you know communication is is so important if you embrace the no surprises rule and donors especially large you know medium-sized to large donors for your organization are going to want to know when there are transitions in in all of your team members not necessarily just your senior your senior leadership. Uh and and I think today's conversation, Julia, is a good reminder for folks that you don't have to wait for this to happen to do something about it. Like you can right now, you know, put a plan and you can put a plan in place right now. Uh that that you know that speaks to this that that when it does happen, you you go right to that folder and you activate it and you know exactly the steps that you need to take. You might even already have some drafted communication, you know, ready to go in the event that you need to communicate with donors in the organization that that someone is moving. Uh you want to make sure that regardless of the of why the person is leaving, you want to make sure that you maintain respect for the individual. Uh that you show empathy to how it might um you know affect donors and the organization. And then you, you know, you wrap it up providing the security that uh things will continue to be great. >> Yeah. I I like that you said that and I think that's um I think that's that's the safe way to keep everybody's integrity intact, including the donor, >> right? including the donors saying look we understand that you know there are changes and sometimes that's uncomfortable but I love what you said in the very beginning you know this is not about that individual ownership this is about the collective um you know community-based action and goals >> and change is going to happen and so >> yeah I mean yeah the work we do is about the greater good. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think this has been a fabulous conversation >> to kind of remind us um that things change, but they it can be healthy for everyone. And I feel like especially this time as we're going into Q4 when people are getting, you know, I'll call it out, frightened of making their goals or stressed out. Um, and then other organizations are trying to, you know, pick out, you know, talent that they think should come on board because this is like a busy time. It it's a it's a time where where things are swirling. >> Well, I'll I'll tell you in our community here in South Florida, uh, there are at least eight development positions available. >> Yeah. in varying, you know, senior director, chief development officer. And I know that organizations are reaching out to fundraisers at other organizations. Y >> because the talent pool does not exist. Uh and so they are uh unapologetically connecting with fundraisers that are working with other organizations to see if they're will if they're interested in making a change. >> Yeah. Yeah. it it's real and I I I I appreciate you calling that out and I think, you know, as in your role as that AFP leader for your community, you've got to be at the center of this. I mean, you got to be seeing this, you know, really ramp up. Even at your meetings, I bet there's some scoping of talent going on >> always, always, always. But I I think I think the next kind of step for for maybe AFP global but definitely for our local chapter is how can we start engaging in workforce development? >> Uh how can we start being champions of creating a pipeline of talent uh through AFP for uh for our local nonprofits? That's one of my big visions. >> I love it. Well, you know, I think that that is a great segue into the architecture of fundraising because in the book that you and I have collaborated on, you know, we talk about this developing a career and the relationships and how you structure that. And this is, I think, a clarion call to the sector of like how it works, how it can work, and how it can be great for both the individual and the organization. If you've ever thought about maybe navigating this professionally or moving, you know, within an organization, um, this is the real deal. And I think we give a lot of ideas on how to achieve that and how to be successful. Um, if you've got questions, reach out to us. You can connect with us at info@ americannonprofitacademy.com or on all of our socials. We're ve both very active. Of course, the nonprofit show is very active along with our executive producer Kevin Pace. So, reach out and uh we'll we'll get your topic as on air and because we want to hear what you're concerned about and see how maybe we can help. Um, you know who helps us are our sponsors and they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Staffing Boutique, JMT Consulting, Third Sector Company, Your Parttime Controller, and the newest member of our sponsorship family, Martis. We are super excited to say that we have done now more than 1,600 episodes. And I know, wow. And uh you know most of these folks have been with us from the beginning seven years ago started this. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> So super cool. And um that's because they like how we do business. They trust us. It's very much like a donor relationship, isn't it Tony? >> Very much. Very much. >> Well, as we end each and every episode of the nonprofit show, we leave with this message and it goes like this. To stay well. So you can do well.