The Economy of The Sports Industry | Nick Agik, Martin Kaizer, James John

All right, good morning. Welcome back. Of course, now we're going to shift gears. We're going to look at what really trending on sports and but not only what's trending on sports. We're going to look at also the economics in the sports industry. We're going to look at how much does a Kenyan athlete really earn out there? How much does a Kenyan footballer actually earn there? Cuz we've seen a lot of people complaining about the dynamics of payments in the Kenya football. And of course, you've seen what's really happening in the Kenya Premier League. So, we get more into details on that. But make sure you stay tuned cuz there's a lot of a lot of stories to cover, not even forgetting about us. You know, yesterday they played remember we did not cover on the the English Premier League. So, we get a little touch on that. But for now, welcome. So welcome to the show and of course my good name is James John. You can find me on social media James. Of course go to our social media page4 channel. You put up a post. So make sure you comment. Then I'll be sampling some of the few comments. But right now let me introduce the people I'm with in the building. I'm with Nick Kamakawa. Then join by Martin Kaiser Karibis. Nick I'm excited to be here. Of course, we played against Aston Villa yesterday and I think what you showcased did are you really um are you really prepared for Chelsea on this Sunday? >> Uh actually that that's now the how defending champion should play. [laughter] If you go to the away games, you must dig deep. >> Uh we came out with a clean sheet and also with three points. So what we need is just points as we as we move forward. even facing Chelsea on Sunday we are just looking forward to three points uh we we we don't care how the outcome will be but us is just to carry three points so that by Sunday we'll be having nine points so far and uh that's it so I'm excited to be around today and um looking forward to this discussion on how economics and the sports have they go hand in hand >> yes >> thank you so much Martin Kaiser I think excited to I know you played during the weekend. I may be excited on this new sign that you're anticipating to make. >> I thinked I hope [laughter] we see what will happen. But anyway, there's a lot a lot of games to cover. But let's get to the topic of discussion. Economics in the sports industry. When you hear about economics, of course, what comes to your mind is about money. Now, Nick, now talking about the Kenya Premier League, of course, you've seen what is really happening. The delay was supposed to start yesterday, I believe. Was it yesterday or today? Yeah, yesterday. But it was postponed yet again because of some the delayment um in in Kio Bank, the case that is going on. But apart from that uh we have seen other things like teams where we find in a situation where the team in a semat we are no longer going to play in the league cuz there's no match funding but you can see the league is sponsored by betting companies no if somebody ask you today having your league sponsored by a betting company is that healthy for the industry? Uh I I I think it is uh it is still healthy as long as there are betting rules that has uh that that caps a number of uh things that uh that affects the the sporting element >> because at the same time much we look at how sports contributes to the economy of a country >> we must also look at the the psychological and the social elements of it because you have seen before how how betting elements has also made made the quality of games to go down where some some players has to sell out uh the teams and also we have seen how it it has affected >> Mhm. >> individuals who participates in betting. So as we look at uh the economic aspect of sports >> mhm >> uh you look at there there is a micro microeconomics where >> where the the sports plays a key role in terms of the market forces >> and I think that's where even us as a country we have not really been keen on it. We have been just looking at the sporting element where right now we can say that the league has not kicked off. >> We have not considered those who sell merchandise. Yeah, >> we have not considered those who do vending business. There are people whom they smallmemes small business revolve around the sports >> like you find there is somebody who make massive sales when there is a sporting during the sporting day. >> True. So you remember so so now you find that when the league has not started somehow some of these businesses struggle [clears throat] >> and also like you find maybe when a team let's say like Gorma here goes to play outside Nairobi >> you find those those towns that there will be even the rooms will be occupied and the rest so when the league is not on >> such businesses absolutely struggle so there is a lot that that is involved in in sports as far as business is concerned and that's where you find some countries >> have really tapped into that that's why they take sporting elements serious but as as a country there is uh that one is still lacking it is just a few brokers who have come in so they have taken advantage of players they have taken advantage of teams and they have also taken advantage of of the element where the ministry of the of the sports has slept on the job so there is a lot to look into >> and uh as we move forward I everything will be coming out more clearly. >> Now Martin guys are coming to talking about the local sports in Kenya. Of course um a team like yours Shabbana manufactures his own jersey but you can find a situation where they cannot afford to manufacture each each new season with a new jersey. uh then uh the argument is people are not buying the jerseys but you find out the jerseys are more expensive even compared to the other the other the other let's say the teams like Manchester United getting a jersey about 1,500 but for for our local teams you get about even 3,000 4,000 why why can't we manufacture jersey in the cheaper price cuz they be available here at 1500. So I think I I think counterfeit I think Kenyan football in terms of jazz can you say marketing maybe popularity because compared to not a lot of people are familiar with the likes of let's say a team like Matar United or even KCB or even a team like Kibag even the Mombasa United. So can you say the popularity and also the market of the league? >> Yeah, I think so. I think so I think so let's say the responsibility lies more to the people change the culture now coming to unique there's a lot things to talk about even the ticket prices we've seen in some matches where even the ticket prices go for about 200 Kenya shillings but let's say if we rise the ticket prices to about 500 Kenya shillings people will complain but do you believe that we've rise the tickets it also improve our league >> uh you know there is something value for money >> uh you you can even make the ticket prices at at a th00and >> and I can assure you people will still buy them as long as you give them value for their money. >> So uh like uh you you want to charge people like maybe 500. >> Mhm. >> And the the field where you are taking that game people cannot access even basic social amenities. >> That's what happens in in some in some stadium which you have around in this country. >> Mhm. >> So then two >> uh the there is just no proper system. So I believe that even our tickets can can go even as a thousand. But the first thing that needs to be done all the stakeholders needs to sit down and uh set set everything to standard. Like if you look at even our neighbors Tanzania. >> Mhm. >> If you look at how they have invested in in sports and how they have in ensure that the aams eat >> so and the teams are properly structured. Mhm. >> That those are some of the things that that you are lacking to a point that you find a team now sets the ticket prices according to the way they want. If you in in in a more organized country >> this thing should be standardized in a way that whether it is Shabana playing against three three KFC. Mhm. >> You find that it is the same the same rate that that they pay if it is something to do with with the the media. >> It is the same amount they should be getting back. But now you find go receives maybe a chunk of more support because of that being in limlight. >> Mhm. >> Then you find a team that is coming up like Moroni youth doesn't receive that. I expect as companies and sponsors goes to go FC Leopad and Shabana and maybe Nairobi United the same sponsors should also find others other companies should also find a way of reaching out to to to these other teams and the teams also has to work hard. I remember there is a time Sonuga was a bit serious. So even if Leopard going to going to play at Aendo Green Stadium, it was something which you had to prepare yourself perfectly well. But nowadays you find that a team doesn't have even a proper a proper home ground. >> Like I was a bit disappointed by Shabana moving [laughter] their moving their their home matches to to Nakuru. Yet this is a local based team >> that is fully being supported by the local. So I expected them >> to root their >> to root their home matches. >> Mhm. >> At Guusi Stadium such that during that time the locals can also feel the economic effect of the team that the team is around. So Mamoga Palini they they are able to sell. So the money is able to circulate. But if you take it to a different place, what happens? You are building another another county and forgetting about your county directly. Maybe >> the the the the patron and those the organizers, they didn't look at that element. They were just looking at the sporting activity. >> So those are some of the things that we may need to look into. I think [laughter] So I think alternative ground obvious reasons. football. Okay. Okay. [laughter] Just to add something about sponsors. I think even the names in the team >> you want to build from the ground. Nick drive your point. >> Yeah. So one we we are looking at the economic element of of of sports. H now he agrees that there are no stadium in in Yamira and Kisuna >> while their neighboring county bay improved their stadium. >> True >> within is it within one year. So and remember there is a local local government. >> So if they were really into growing those counties I think within a year they would have improved the study. I'm seeing guys >> uh we can't leave this opportunity away from our people. Mhm. >> So these are some of the discussions that even when the governor says the patron of the team okay [laughter] you want to you want to defend I'm not defending anybody I get the point that something else about these small teams >> you remember United may his soul rest in peace under Bob >> he picked that team from the slums and it was consistent to to build this team. >> So you're arguing like um there's no need for investment even in the smaller teams. >> Yes. Not only in the big teams but you know the sponsor the sponsor themselves cannot really just speaking logically cannot really go for the small team that's the problem that we have but uh let's see let's see what will happen the league is already started we have seen new names maybe we'll see even new things but away from that now away from Shabana stadiums now let's talk about um a sponsorship like um like pessa that we have for the league do you believe Martin coming to you do you believe is the best thing cuz I think they have signed a new one sign for 10 for 10 year right now with 1.1 billion Kenya shillings then 60% going to all the clubs then of course um of course there's that argument that there's need for our our local league to be aired mostly on our local channels and also and on our platforms like DSTV away from AAM because AAM belongs to Tanzania. So picking up all that do you believe this is the best the best trajectory that we are going with? Soch. country best. But watching specific specific I access actually. Yeah. Some of the games Nick maybe you can add some point there. >> Yeah. You you remember there is the the the biggest challenge I have with Kenyan sports that it is too politicized. whatever match FIFA is trying to to push like at some point was pushing that guys uh FKF is totally different from the your local politics. >> So this one made made us some time to push out sponsors like sport pessa and you you saw how teams struggle our local teams really did struggle without proper sponsorship. >> Mhm. Uh but the challenge which I have with uh the current regime under FKF and the deal they have with sport >> you find that they gave a longterm deal >> with low pay >> so you you can't move >> so I think they would have allowed other investors to come in so that they can compete in bidding and and they locked a lot of spaceshm Mhm. >> So if you look at even some of the amount that GMA here gets from sports sports pesa and what they spend to play over 30 matches those things doesn't add up. >> It is something that cannot sustain even three >> three international proper players that somebody can go to the stadium and watch. >> So those are some of the things that needs to be looked into. And uh and in terms of airing also I I can say that somebody maybe just came in and pushed aam under our throat and people were not given that uh right right channels or opportunity to bid >> freely so that we can improve our our sports because I believe even the local uh the local channels >> there are some that can >> invest properly and air this matches without any hitches. True. >> So those are some of the things that as a country if you look at sports as a key driving force within the economy >> then they have to be also honest among themselves and allow proper investors to come in >> and uplift our game and uh and maybe in terms of talent development. Then something that Martin has also mentioned about super sport >> you know when super sports airs maybe your league >> you are also able to to sell your talents you are able to hit the global the global space but if locals who are watching these matches we are struggling to find even that >> what about the international Exactly. unless [laughter] coming to you know talking about the talents of course Nik mentioned something about um uh the clubs receiving the money but it's not really good enough to get her for the for the for the team for for about even 17 matches 34 matches for the yeah that four matches for the whole season that's only only for the for the league remember they are playing even the domestic cups teams like GMA and Taska they are playing even in the the C champ the CF champions league and also C confederation cup now talking now in the perspective of the player what can you say an average uh Kenyan player ears just to just to just to sustain maybe for a That's for a month. Mhm. I think the cheapest I think I thinkers invite more. I think improve. I think agents I think now coming to unique maybe talk about your You have you have heard Martin talk about a player earning about 10,000 shelings. Now compare a player who is earning the most earning player let's say who wants most in Kenya compared to the lowest earning player in the in the the any type of European league outside Kenya. Now do you think do you believe that that might might be the main reason why uh this some of these athletes some of these um Kenyan players choose even to go and sit on the bench rather than play for a Kenyan team but play for just a team outside Kenya sit on the bench so that they can earn that type of money. >> Absolutely because uh you you know you know sports is sports is something that goes with age. >> Mhm. And uh if you look at uh I can say some of the players that has moved to like South Sudan. >> Mhm. >> It is because of money because uh your age is almost catching up with uh with you because you have that duration >> at the same time somebody wants you to do more of a volunteer work and and and and if you look at developed countries like uh England and Spain >> Mhm. those people value local players compared to foreigners. True. >> Like you'll find that the the amount that somebody like Rooney was being played versus what Ronaldo was being played, >> you may find that those people plays pays Rooney more than Cristiano Ronaldo plus all that talent >> just to encourage that you can play you you you you you you can grow and benefit as a citizen. But in Keny is vice versa. you find getting a player from Uganda is being paid over 100k >> while another player who is scoring similar goals and is a is a Kenyan >> he's being told more to volunteer >> to free >> to do to do more of a free work [laughter] and you know some of these clubs clubs are ethnic based so [laughter] while ideally It is just >> struggling actually. >> It is just what I was saying here. >> You may find that some of these Ghanaians who are on the bench at people like Ammono who doesn't even play, >> you'll find that those people [laughter] you see on bench, >> they are being paid more than those who struggle with games like Alpha and they seated on the bench. But at the same time, if you look at the Alpha's talent, >> you can't compare with these people. >> But Alpha is being paid less and is playing every match >> while somebody sitting on the bench and being that Aka outside Kenya is being paid more. So those are some of the things that needs to change that even within our leagues, we need to really >> to really encourage and develop local talents by paying them. Well, I I I somehow loved what the president was trying to do >> during the CH >> during the CH by at least telling players that if you reach this level, you'll get an affordable housing. >> Imagine sports football is also needs mental strength. [clears throat] At least >> at least at least at least even if if they try to bring in sponsors. These are some of the things that you need to seriously discuss with these people. Are you able to develop a residential for for our players, >> for our coach and such kind of stuff? >> What are the match allowances? Mhm. >> So those are some of the things that they need >> key point to take in. I think I believe I love what pride if you know pride they did with their players. But now away from now what's our player Sanani there's another argument that was there Martin talking about these athletities those marathon runners the the 100 m the 3,000 5,000 they actually earn more compared to what our local players they are volleyball compared to what volleyball players ear compared to what footballers earn cuz I was just looking at this paper some allowances have been changed if you're going to play outside Kenya that means you're going to to get allowance of 25,000 Kenya shillings per day. Uh it doesn't m matter how long you'll be outside Kenya. Then you get a 5 million award for any player any athlete who breaks any record. Then um 3 million for gold medal then 2 million for silver then 1 million for bronze. So compared to now a footballer who cannot go and represent us in Olympics now because I think um the athletes the let's say marathon marathon runners are actually who who go outside for for I think now they are going for the LA Olympics soon. So um now compared to that do you believe maybe they are privileged more even the looking the likes of Kipch Kipog actually has a a sponsorship with with the the is this the Nissan brand? >> Yeah I think Nissan then you are 159. Yeah, he has that sponsorship. Of course, Adidas is also there. Even Omanala is someone who just made one record then he got a lot of sponsorship. The likes of Julius, they have sponsorship. Now, compared to a local footballer like let's say someone like um Michael Olonga, that guy is good, but it can he he or he cannot get that type of sponsorship. So do you believe that there's that type of privilege that marathon runners or even 100 m even let's say athletes in general have compared to what normal footballers have privilege for the longest So England, maybe. So I think compared to footballers football. So I think Now Nick coming to you maybe cuz the halfcon is coming up just quickly because time is not on our side. Maybe talk about now what we expect remember in the CH tournament we receive a lot of money uh from the president. Do you expect the same the same composition for for us? But now the problem will appear in the selection cuz when you when money is involved, you know what happens. So what do you expect maybe for this AFCON 27? >> Yeah. uh I I with the with AFCON uh as as a country from the head of state they really have to properly invest in it. >> Mhm. >> Because uh if you look at Morocco when they hosted AFCON >> they they clocked close to 1 million visitors >> who came during that period and there was a lot of uh business elements. So, so the as a country we really have to find a way of how to motivate players >> so that our team keeps on playing >> in a way that we are able to attract those fans >> to spur our economy forward. So I believe uh with the current president we have >> he's still going to throw goodies towards the players >> and uh I'm just praying that we we maintain Benny McCarthy because somehow if you look at the way he he was doing even the team selection >> he's like a a hands-on man where where he really if he believes that this play is good he will go for it. So, so that you move away from the sporting element. You give the coach that freedom so that he's able to call the best players who can help us to advance this country forward. >> Mhm. Uh then u also something else that that is likely to happen that you know through through this AFCON. Yeah. >> And under the stringent FIFA rules >> we have seen now the talanta >> stadium >> is being rushed >> and is coming up nicely. Most of this our stadium >> they are going to be improved and facelifted and even after AFCON >> our local league is going to benefit from such talent as they >> and several other other things are going to to emerge after AFCON. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. So M just to capital it before you get to the comment section maybe talk about what you expect also for the AFCON and also for the the under 17 World Cup as well and also maybe talk about the the is the volleyball team that Malia who are representing us right now just real quickly maybe you can tell them where they can find you on social media. Okay. Motivate our players at the under 20 under 23 World Cup under 17. Under 17. Mhm. Yeah. Apart from that, uh I expect good results from them. >> Mhm. Want to see the best of them. Maybe what can they get you on your social media? >> On social media, Martin Kaiser. >> Okay. But anyway, maybe where can they get you on social media? >> Nikk Facebook Jun Instagram Jun Twitter. >> Mhm. Just looking at someone has said that you look like Chaloba in the in the comment section. [laughter] Anyway, we are talking about how does the sports industry make money. So, that guy looks like a very The funny thing is you're wearing you're wearing a jersey. So, there's that type of buty I see you're locked in then. Okay. Those are some of the few comments. But anyway, thank you so much for stay tuned from 7:00 a.m. Now it's just 2 minutes to 10:00 a.m. But um I just want to thank these two gentlemen for coming. Nice conversation. Get in depth on Thursday, of course, after after reviewing the all the games that were played during the weekend. But for now, going to cap it up at there. You can find me on social media, James. Then my good name is James John.