The Dark Truth Of Child Stars | Ned’s Declassified School Survival Guide

what's up you guys so if you're a 90s kid like me you've probably seen Devin warkheiser he starred as Ned in the hit Nickelodeon show Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide he's worked throughout a series of TV shows and movies throughout the 2010s and today he's revealing the Dark Side of child acting that most people don't hear about there's no air conditioning it was it was a warehouse we're there to shoot a show 12 hours a day under Hot Lights he's also opening up about how much money he made how much money he spent and how he wound up completely broke so these are The Good the Bad and the horror stories of Nickelodeon stars as soon as you subscribe and hit the like button for the YouTube algorithm what are you laughing Jack it's just funny it works before you go into that if you follow our Instagrams I'm sure you're aware that Graham and I have been traveling Non-Stop and when you're traveling packing can be an absolute nightmare I always have a tendency to to over pack for clothes I like to have a lot of options so when I go somewhere and I'll have to film it's like you know what do I want to wear but thankfully our sponsor Unbound Marino reached out to us to help Unbound Marino is a clothing brand that uses the ultimate travel fabric which is is Merino wool which is perfectly optimized for packing Comfort maximizing your travel experience their Merino wool is incredibly light moisture wicking and odor resistant it's insanely comfortable it just feels like I'm almost wearing nothing whereas I'm wearing something this feels like a completely foreign material like I've never felt it before it feels incredible and it is extremely soft you know what the thing is it's a very breathable material like you could put it on it could be 90 degrees outside but you still get like a bit of the wind through it but it's warming at the sand it's weird it's a weird sensation I like it though and if you're a casual viewer of the channel I'm sure you're also aware that I 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the link Down Below in the description or you could go to Unbound marino.com again the link is down below in the description make sure to use the code iced coffee for 10 off your order enjoy let us know what you think and now with that said let's get back to the podcast the part that I struggle with is that I was on my own show at a young age and thought my career after it would be nothing but uphill and Jack oh I'm sorry it's a FaceTime really you can't silence a computer it's okay if you're watching this man come on it was Sean yeah yeah Sean you [ __ ] blew it man okay all right let's get back to it I'm so sorry oh no it's okay there's a couple remnants of uh my childhood ego that I struggle with and one of them is that I booked my my own show I was the lead on my own show and so I knew a hundred percent like I am meant to do and be great in this industry that I love like I'm meant to be in movies that that are great I'm meant to be in more shows that are great and still haven't done anything as big as Ned's and that is some weird thing to reckon with that continues to Humble me in good ways I think like I like who I am I think my character is developed but I still have this part of me that like is like no no I'm like I'm meant to be on all the things I'm supposed to be in this industry like and I caught it at such a young age for me it was supposed to continue forever and it hasn't um but I'm still gonna do it for the rest of my life let's go back how did you get started in acting uh I was just a little ham I was just a little it was just a kid who loved attention and loved being funny and just like loved movies and my parents saw it and they were like hmm I want to do community theater or something do you want to do something with this like I watch like Austin Powers and uh Ace Ventura yeah and I would just recite them at like six years old I I used to have a photographic memory kind of like I would see a movie and just be able to recite most of it and my parents were like yeah that's not normal do you want to do a theater and I was like yeah and then did theater for a while and the theater people were like do you want to audition for commercials movies TV and I was like yeah and did that and then that led to LA and that led to Ned's and yeah what do you mean that led to La so you didn't grow up in a like correct no I grew up in Georgia suburbs of suburbs of Atlanta which is now a big uh entertainment Town yeah it's it's like East Hollywood now um but it wasn't then it was a right to work state then which meant non-union and so if the union isn't there no like only non-union projects are filming there which is like cheap and smaller independent stuff so when I was there there wasn't a lot of work there but that's where I lived so that's where I was auditioning and I booked a small role in a movie called We Were Soldiers it was a Mel Gibson film um and how did you book that uh that was just casting out of there you know it's just did you know going in it was going to be like a Mel Gibson yeah you did yeah yeah I mean yeah that was just my agents out there um I was a kid I was just going and doing it like how really uh 10 10 9 and that would have been audition Mel Gibson was like at his PVP at that time yeah we were soldiers was it was it's a great film yeah um and he was making it with Randall Wallace who uh uh wrote Braveheart with him all right yeah yeah it was like and huge cast um and they were casting his kids out of Georgia because they were shooting in Fort Benning Georgia so book that small roll big movie and that led my Atlanta agents to ask like do you want to go to La for pilot season like we think you should we have a connection with an agent out there um and yeah man what did that look like was that Ned's Declassified uh or not yet that no my first pilot season was just auditions I did like an independent movie and some things and then my second pilot season was nuts and how did that work were you just flying back and forth between Georgia L.A yep yep yes it was me and my mom uh my dad and sister would stay in Georgia uh pilot season used to be this thing in La that it's not anymore pallet season used to be the time of the year when most auditions were happening when most Pilots were being cast most new shows there was a season of it it was January to like April and that was the time for auditions and then like a little bit in September um so people from all over the country that would be the time you'd come and you'd come for those four months and that would be when you would hit all the auditions and then go back to wherever the hell you came from yeah nowadays it's not that we're streaming everything's all the time um but yeah so we'd come out for four months and then go back to Georgia and then come back out book Ned's shot that what were we doing for school by the way like at that time so during Ned's I was homeschooled six months of the year while we shot Ned's and I was back in my public Middle School uh in Georgia so you were actual middle schooler while you were shooting yeah and I was the same age I was on the show so Ned was in sixth grade I was in sixth grade and I was in seventh grade I was in seventh grade and it was an eighth yeah how was that were you were the people in your school being like only for like a moment when I would first get there and then you're just like in school you know like kids the the novelty like wears off very quickly and then you're just another student you know um and people are judging you not based on that but on like do I like this person or not like you know do we have a connection or not uh and I think that like I had a really good version of the child acting industry and I think that was part of it was I'd come out here and do la and then I'd go back and live like the life that I grew up in with my friends in my hometown in public school for half the year and I think that was like a nice balance of both it would really ground me to go back home um so that ego thing like was less yeah that sounds smart and and also while you were in middle school since you were also playing the same obviously on in the movie or in the show uh did you ever have experiences in middle school you're like hmm I could pitch this because this is a funny like thing that occurred no it's like it's on the writers man like they have a whole team of writers who have lived a lot of life and are very funny people and and they had it um for me it was more just getting excited to see what they were writing for us because Ned's was so funny and so zany and we always got to do crazy [ __ ] I mean the show was a blast it was basically a cartoon that we filmed with real people but the size of the jokes and the size of the world was cartoon um so yeah it was more just exciting every table reading every season seeing what we got to do I mean even going through the re-watch Pod now I haven't watched these episodes in so long and now I'm watching through them and even in the first season like the amount of like gags were doing and like stunts and I'm in like a giant beach ball and we have like this mop bucket slingshot thing and like everything's just so off the wall um it was always great getting episodes like always great seeing what the new jokes were gonna be so how did you land Ned's uh it was a normal audition process you know I had an agent they sent the audition and then there's like a rap there's series of auditions you go to the first read with the casting director then you go to the next read with maybe a producer or two the Creator uh from there they're starting to pick favorites for each role and trying to do a chemistry read they're trying to blend different actors and read them in different uh groupings to try and see who who is the role you know so it was a series of them so we had we had Ned's the pilot got cast in waited a year to find out if it was getting picked up uh we found out a year later hey congratulations it's going to series but one of the three cast members is gonna get recast uh for a diversity hire because we had three white kids and a pilot um and uh one of one of you are going to be recast and so you have to come in and Audition one last time wow after we made the pilot yeah after booking the pilot waiting to hear if it goes to series like our our dreams are on the line for this thing and it was like this Bittersweet crazy phone call congratulations it's going but also hold on tight because you have to audition again and we're gonna have to wait to hear you prepare for that that was more just like mental [ __ ] was like I already know what I'm doing in there like it's gonna be the same scenes that I auditioned with already five times and filmed in the pilot like we're gonna do the same scenes that booked me the role it was about just just owning what I already did and not psyching myself out just owning like no like I already booked this role do what I did do what I do be comfortable and just just do it so when you film for a pilot do you know which network it's going to be at that time yeah this is you knew already it was gonna be yeah not for every pilot sometimes people do it kind of independent and then are going to sell it but most of the time the the studio is who's funding the pilot sure they've been pitched the pylon and they're like yeah we're gonna make this and then we'll see we'll test it and we'll see if we want to make it so you knew is Nick were you a fan of Nickelodeon of course yeah for your favorite shows it was more of the cartoons at the time but I guess no I had watched so much Nickelodeon um all that yeah Arnold uh Pete and Pete oh my gosh Nickelodeon yeah yeah I forgot about that of course I'd watched all of that I loved I loved Nickelodeon yeah yeah it was fire to be on it that's so cool yeah but first you want to think today's spawn answers stream yard stream yard is a live streaming software that allows you to 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lot if you check them out with the link Down Below in the description thank you so much stream yard and back to the podcast it was also my second pilot season in La so it honestly man I hit I don't know if you've ever read uh what's that book The Alchemist um it's like I think I did in high school it's like an allegory for you know following your your pursuit in life but but there's like a part where he talks about beginner's luck kind of being life showing you like Grace early on to say yes pursue this thing and then you'll meet your challenges but like a little bit of beginner's luck is like hey yeah here you go here's a little Grace starting out casinos do the same thing by the way exactly every single time I'm like you know you're gonna win that's what gets you hooked man that's kind of what I'm saying is like it's true my second pilot season I booked Ned's and it just felt like oh the path is just gonna like this this is what I'm doing this is gonna be easy I meant to do this it's all happening um that is not that is not always do you remember what the pay was on like this that first season I don't but whatever it was it's less than what any of you think it is that's that's what uh who was it it was uh Josh said what 15K an episode no I think that was it that would have been that would have been third season exactly that would have been the end he was getting I think it was 1500 or 3 000 an episode he said that it was enough to move out on his own to like a one bedroom apartment but also now he's not getting I remember he said he wasn't getting royalties anymore which is really interesting he was on Jason Nash's podcast and Jason is still getting royalties from Drake and Josh yeah but Josh wasn't because he was a kid when he was doing it no because he was Elite oh wow no because he was Elite no Nickelodeon worked out some crazy deal with aftra at the time there's two acting unions Sagan after a they're merged now at sag-aftra uh they were split at the time and I don't believe sag ever would have let this happen but it was an after show all Nickelodeon shows were after and after I don't know got screwed and sold us out in uh negotiations with Nickelodeon because they were kind of Ruthless and um they didn't pay their leads uh residuals but like guest stars and recurring got residuals because their initial pay was so much less the residuals are going to be less yeah no it does seem insane doesn't it so it was a low amount for the first season do you remember at all what it was like in those those final two seasons no but somewhere somewhere up between 10 and 15K makes sense for the final seasons and that was a big show too yeah yeah yeah yeah you would expect it to be so nowadays people are getting paid like 100k an episode of Modern Family or whatever that's prime time that's Prime Time Abc yeah no like no one's getting kid shows were always less as a kid it was something you know yeah it's not nothing um but the the fact that it's like sold all over the world repeatedly since and there's no residuals on it is is just some shrewd business from Nickelodeon yeah you just don't really know what you're signing as a kid you know exactly what you're getting yeah we know I mean it's not like I didn't have lawyers and parents like no we knew exactly what we were signing they just will not change that they were like they were like Alternatives saying no yeah I mean no literally they call that bluff they say We'll hire someone else in between Seasons we were like okay the show's doing well let's renegotiate these residuals they're like we'll hire we'll recast Ned right now would they re do you think that looking back do you think there's no way they could have done that [Music] they're like look there are thousands of kids across the country who would want to do this yeah like they're Savages it makes sense though because if you did that that would set precedent where everyone else would want to renegotiate exactly and it would be very exactly and also it what am I gonna walk away from my show like and the opportunity absolutely not like they know of course I'm not gonna but now it does seem like Nickelodeon actors are a lot better off afterwards than the Disney Channel actor it's because we're like it's because we're less famous do you think so yeah I do honestly I do I think it's because we're less famous I mean not all of us like Nickelodeon apparently there's a lot coming out with a lot of Nickelodeon actors who have [ __ ] up experiences man it's right yeah it breaks my heart to hear but no I honestly think it's because we're less famous Disney has a better machine they have a better business I'd imagine Nickelodeon be more like Hands-On and like kind I don't I don't know like from like my random perspective this fan like Disney is like they feel like that I think on a corporate level they feel more that I don't know uh they they were fine they it was it was fine I had a good I had an overall good experience on Nickelodeon um but so did a bunch of the Disney kids um it really depends on who's running your show that's that's where it that's where it happens is who's the creator of your show who's the showrunner of your show right how they are is gonna dictate the vast majority of your experience while making the show um Ned's was made by a guy named Scott fellows who is an incredible human he's a great family man hilarious guy his wife produces with him his kids are on set like it was a blast Scott's incredible and you know sets are a hierarchy if your boss is not a good leader and is kind of toxic and kind of projected on people or whatever is unaware of the responsibility they have as a leader um your job's gonna be very frustrating like I've worked other jobs than acting and man if a boss has uh some blind spots or whatever it's men it sucks sure it sucks um if your boss is a great leader and a great person and actually cares about the people who work for him and making the environment um function and connected and open and and hard working then the experience is going to be great and um yeah we had that on EDS we had a great experience uh hearing from other kids stars come out over the last few years that some of their experiences were less good so how involved were your parents and like you know you working and making sure like you're doing okay and super involved yeah my mom especially because she was the one out here with me my dad was uh back in Georgia working right um and he would come out a lot but my mom my mom was on set with me every single day and my mom is she's the best she's the best and she was always making sure I'm good what to watch out for uh stage mom stage mom is a term it's parents who are aggressively pushy right yeah yeah it's parents who want the kids career more than the kid does and it makes them not trustworthy people to be around it makes them sketchy right like stage moms are sketchy because their motives are apparent and they're aggressive and it's weird um my mom was always watching out for that and always making sure I knew what to watch out for and um she was on set like keeping an eye and confronting what would she be confronting one example was she reminded me so first season we filmed at one studio in Hollywood Sunset Gower a proper soundstage based on the great success of our show Nickelodeon moved us to uh some shitty cheap Studio out in the valley that's like a converted Warehouse not a real Sound Stage they were gonna try and make us film there with no air conditioning there was no air conditioning it was it was a warehouse and oh those are hard to to heat and cool I mean they basically exposed to whatever the outside is is the inside of a warehouse you're right yeah but doesn't [ __ ] matter like we're there to shoot a show 12 hours a day under hot lights in the valley during parts of the summer like my mom's like I don't care what it costs or what you what are you gonna do you're not going to air condition the set they're like it's gonna cost a lot to bring in you know AC and these these like big like you can't even vent while you're filming right don't they have to turn them off oh for sure yeah yeah for sure but you need them on when we're not filming there's plenty of time we're not filming um I didn't realize like my mom was kind of who had to push that because she was like what what did the other parents not get involved to that degree or was your mom the one who was like my mom was the one man okay yeah she was she was the one I just thought it would be bad for the show like you don't want to show up me all sweaty yeah no it's exhausted what you're trying to pray you know what don't they have you wear multiple layers of clothes like you would wear a shirt yeah but still we'd be but we'd be but not we'd be sweating man our faces our hair uh yeah no it's it's a dumb idea to not ultimately they had to air condition it but I forgot about that whole thing I forgot like we would stand in front of these giant Yellow air conditioning tubes and just like yeah yeah it was a thing but but my mom was like I forgot how much she was kind of like going to bat to make sure everything was okay and that's what it takes was this your full-time job at that point for my mom yeah wow yeah man I mean she was on set every day I mean we're there 10 hours a day so one thing I was curious about in the show uh going back through some of your podcasts you were in a relationship with Lindsay how did that come to be and were the producers worried that like two of the actors were like maybe getting involved and maybe like what if that doesn't work out it's like no that's so typical man it was it was the end of the show we had worked together three years yeah in the story Ned and Moe's are coming together that season and Devin and Lindsay off camera were coming I mean it's just how did that develop though after because I feel like you just developed more of like a friendship actually man naturally kids with hormones spending a lot of time together I'm gonna say it it was it was it was bound to happen you think it's hard for guys and girls to be friends it can be done of course it can I've got I've got some of my best friends are girls but uh keeping it emotionally clean keeping the space clean keeping the communication clean keeping the feelings clean is uh you know it's not always easy someone someone might develop feelings and if that's uh incongruent if it's not reciprocated in the way you want navigating that can be difficult um but I don't know I've got great friends that are girls so it seems like it's easier every time they ask questions like this on Tick Tock yeah guys girls be friends all the girls are like yeah we could be friends but every guy's like nah nah the girls are like no of course we could be friends and then they ask the guy that's friends with that girl and they're like if you know if you could if you get over there in an intimate way would you do it yourself absolutely 100 yeah but if you ask girls the same question almost all of them would be like no we're just friends right I think it's possible but it's it's hard for both sides to be like on the same wavelength that's it so that's that's right that's why it's difficult yeah that's why it's tricky and like I said again I have best friends like girls I will know for my entire life who I love and cherish and we have amazing friendships um so of course it's possible it's doable and you should you should not only have guy friends if you're a guy and as a girl you should have some dude friends but it's challenging Scott I've not deceive each other you got to be really [ __ ] real with yourself and your friends and intentional I guess yeah and intentional and and clear about uh clear about boundaries and clear about talking through things and like you really have to care for the each other's well-being um because yeah just it can just get it can just get messy I don't know I don't know that I have more to say on that I think it's fair in my experience it's like you find a go ahead I have a question for you guys sure not just not just uh not just being friends with girls because that's doable of course there there are challenges but it's doable can you be friends with your exes yeah no I think so I love it I love it I just got two answers yes that's what I'm talking about yeah why why no I think I just move on and then mentally it's just it didn't work out I have no interest in becoming friends afterwards I'm sure maybe there might be like something in the in a very long future of just being cordial I'd be cordial no matter what actually uh I would never be like oh my God I'd always be friendly sure but uh but not friends no no desire respect like no desire respect why yes well a lot of the times you'll start out as friends and then you can go to dating and if dating doesn't work out like that doesn't take away from the fact that you were once friends so in those situations I think I think it's a little easier it depends on how intimate you got yeah I would agree but I don't like I just don't think that there's one stereotype that you can say and sweep for everything like I think of course there will always be situations where it's challenging and of course there will be situations where it's fine yeah it just depends on the people for me personally I like to think I'm the type of guy that could just be ah yeah sure let's be friends whatever I guess friends is also different than acquaintances and wanting the best out of the person and checking in every once in a while but not like actual like hangout friends yeah um yeah I think if you want to be friends you will right yeah I think anything is possible if you just really want it yeah I think too many people want that and they aren't real about why or the like yeah why why I'm more on yours I agree with you that it's not one size fits all I am I'm friends with Lindsay she was my first love right but I do feel don't you feel like it is different as like a teen like it's your kind of first relationship versus something like yeah yeah absolutely like Yeah x is in my 20s is different than right 15. right but uh I think too many people immediately go to well we'll just be friends then yeah it's like that's the worst it doesn't work like that entirely I'm I'm more with you where it's like you gotta go no contact we did our thing yeah we shared this transformational experience good or bad and we've been not just physically naked with each other but like spiritually naked with one another we've we were intimate and now it's over and goodbye what can we ask what happens what what happened with Lindsay yeah I mean we're 15. that was never going to work out do you know what I mean there's still got to be something that happened I feel like things happen but like it doesn't matter it was never going to work out I feel like you see some stories though of people who met and like very rare high school did they really yeah yeah wow yeah they had art class together but didn't they did they stay together the whole time but they weren't I think they had I had one they had one break uh it might have been when my dad went off to college or something like that and they got back together like a year later I think it was spring break of 94. it was nuts yeah I think that's it though yeah it's very rare very rare um so yeah like things happen but ultimately we couldn't sustain a relationship we were two different people who had never loved people before sure and what about dating for you now what about it you got a girlfriend no you on the apps no really yeah how do you meet people like you meet people without phone though you're not going public yeah I meet people in the world and on social media some of the time okay walk us through and you know maybe at a coffee shop would blow up on Tinder like I guess I was on for a minute during the pandemic it didn't blow up that much I I did the apps for the first time over the pandemic because it was the first time I was lonely enough and there was no other option I was home alone so I was like all right let me do these things because the thing was when the apps blew up I was in a long-term relationship at the time so when they became the thing that everyone was on I wasn't dating and then I was recovering from that I was heartbroken so I wasn't [ __ ] on apps pandemic hit I was lonely enough and there was no other chance to meet someone so I was like all right let me download all these things let me see what it's about I see why people are doing it I get it I met some nice people through it um but ultimately the the time spent like scrolling on potential who this person could be me judging based on their photos and like their dumb little like that's not real I don't even like I don't even like getting to know someone over text like I need to know like I can't text is fun I keep text very like light usually for a long time like I feel like way too many people are going through a very important part of courtship and getting to know someone over text is that just we that's meant to weed out the creepers that that's all it is like can you continue a conversation like somewhat normal yeah from their perspective yes I get that but then you have to get in person with that the right time with the apps to get to a date that I might know instantly like oh this just ain't the vibe like great girl not the vibe for me and I wouldn't know it but now I do like I don't know I'm just not it's not for me so I meet people in person how do you do that you guys are amazing how do we meet her so like how does she meet person so you see somebody like you yeah you come here you can do that I don't know like last weekend I was at a show with some friends at an improv show with some friends um there was a girl there who knew some of my friends so just throughout the night we had just had enough passing each other little exchanges we happen to be walking out of the bar at the same time and then um well she got my number but but I could have gotten her number and then I did get her number she asked for your number she did she was proactive she did which I loved did you did you text her afterwards or you did yep cool yep I love it I love proactive yeah I love knowing like okay like that's a good first step is like ah awesome you a girl was brave enough to do the thing and not just leave it on yeah I like that yeah um but also I can do it it's just about like do you feel a little Vibe or whatever and you just go talk and then if you feel something you say hey can I get your number and it's a little awkward and it's a little but uh you just [ __ ] do it man you think you're a hopeless romantic not anymore you used to be what changed experience do you think it's better not to be or it suits you more I think it's better not to be entirely why I think romance is amazing and intimacy is beautiful and all of it has a place in our lives but being a hopeless romantic idealizing and fantasizing ideas about what your relationship should be and how it should fulfill you I think is leading so many people wrong yeah I think it's the expectation that you put on another person I remember there's there's someone in high school and every guy she met was the one that every single time and it would last almost always six to eight months nasty breakup and then right afterwards I met the one that over and over and over again yeah that that's being a hopeless romantic over committing maybe over committing um not being real it's you're in Fantasyland if you're you're being a hopeless romantic you probably watch uh romantic stories on movies and television and you actually believe that you want that they're not real they're constructed stories between actors they're not real Jim and Pam are not real don't say that man they're not real it's too far [ __ ] it's fun to watch it's entertaining but I think it's actually poisoned to I would having a real relationship I would tend to agree with that there's so many relationships on TVs that I see like that's that would that would never exist and I think a lot of it's unhealthy personally I know and I think people are really because media we relate to it I think people really aren't aware how much they are adopting the romance the Romantic ideas in movies and television and actually putting it and trying to put it on their real life and it's just not it man I I did it I did it I met someone who I thought was the one I wanted to marry her I I was the best boyfriend I could be at the time I played out the best version of like what I thought this romance idea was and there was a lot of it that was really beautiful but where it got me I learned too much from and I said hold on all those things like that's not what's important to me in love I'm not even sure those things are love you don't need to build this big Grand Story you don't even need the story of the [ __ ] one like I don't need all that I don't want all that it doesn't get you it doesn't get me where I want to go which is which is a healthy relationship with myself and another person which is healthy boundaries which is being able to um discuss boundaries and respect one another which is still being open supportive romantic at times intimate vulnerable these things are all still included in what I want in Partnership but these fantasies and these conventions that everyone's a part of I'm [ __ ] too old for this [ __ ] man I'm over it I played it out enough times I saw it repeated enough times I've watched it in other people people just bounce oh yeah it's our it's our Dada anniversary again oh I've watched you go through like six of these with six different the ones and every person is completing you [ __ ] that man what like change how you approach this thing um that's how I I just don't approach it the same I have a an aversion to Fantasy in relationship now and not not some kind of fantasy you know but these these fantasies of like I'm gonna complete you and I think people move way too [ __ ] fast at slotting someone into an idea and into a feeling that they've seen on [ __ ] TV and it's just not it man I completely agree Jack what do you think I agree people shouldn't get into relationships for the sake of being romantic or because they want romance yes get into a relationship because you like the other person yes you know you think you're good together yeah I would say I mostly agree but also like I I maybe we have different definitions of hopeless romantic like people that are just so romantic and that's what they think about and stuff like that like that's fine it's just a preference that's yeah you are you know but of course don't let that make you make irrational decisions yeah like I'll give an example like like like to me being a hopeless romantic is not about the other per it's your it's your filling in like an idea so I I was overhearing I was overhearing a friend of a friend talk and he was explaining how he had kind of been talking to this girl uh they hadn't met yet but they had they had I don't know I guess been linked up through friends and they've been texting and talking over the phone um a little bit and kind of you know they were starting to be interested in each other they were going to have their first date so this guy probably identifying as a hopeless romantic um sets up this elaborate first date this [ __ ] picnic and blindfold and blind first date and tandem bicycle and just like way too much and and it didn't go how he wanted it to go and things are a little awkward with the girl and I was overhearing this just going like well what the [ __ ] are you doing man go get coffee relax dude romance should come like way for me like romance like that should come way into a relationship with someone when you know you show up for each other when you know you've respected each other when you've gotten to really know someone like not just doing a romantic thing on the first date for someone like see how'd it go it didn't go well it didn't go well they're married with three kids go well for him because of course not it's too much I feel like that happens did nobody tell him before like yo don't do that did you want him or like I didn't know him he was a friend of friends so I was kind of just hearing this and I didn't know him well enough to go like he needs better friends I agree yeah I agree because I wanted to be like hey dude I don't know you but like that what are you doing you did too much he's already lost at that point I agree yeah he's already I agree yeah but this is out of some like romantic ideal rather than like just go meet someone take it slow everyone can take it slow slow down you think a movie would do well that accurately reflected what you about no real romance you don't think people would relate to it or like I actually don't know if you go against the grain if everybody's so used to this like archetype or this General movie plot if you go against the grain try something different I know some people do it there's been like Friends with Benefits movies and there's been heartbreaking movies like Blue Valentine that show the a real relationship falling apart it has been done but it's still not what a real full full dimensional life is movies is a medium they are characters on a plot line like it represents life it's not life it can't it's any artistic medium um has to cut things out to make it work like it's not everything the Highlight Reel not just the Highlight Reel it's characters on a story yeah our life is a million things at one time getting to know someone is a million things at one time negotiating how we share with one another or boundaries or what we need our needs and wants it just doesn't go the movie a character needs to go on a [ __ ] plot arc our life is going on a million of these things at one time like it's just not it's not it so you can watch them and maybe try and take Parts but I just think I just no no that is not romance it's not romance man it's crafted by a Hollywood screenwriter it's beautiful it's great storytelling but your life is so much more than that getting to know someone is so much more than two characters having a scripted conversation so do you feel like you're at a point now where you're ready for a relationship or do you feel like you still have more like just self-reflection growing to do and like yeah no um I don't want I don't want one okay uh uh smart man I don't want one I do feel ready for one I know I know my Pace these days is way different and I will spend I will keep things I will keep things at a healthy distance while still getting to know someone for a lot longer and if someone is right enough during that process and it keeps unfolding in this way beautiful I could see that happening sure I found most uh of my relationships these days um haven't uh they're not sustainable but I think that's more realistic I don't think any relationship is sustainable so if we can start if we can start not on the fantasy that we're going to be together forever but that like my life's super Dynamic it changes all the time let's just keep getting to know each other and keep being good to one another and see where this goes that's kind of where I've been at these days and I've gotten to know some great people um some things have fizzled out naturally and even that's been lovely man so I do think I'm capable of being in a relationship I don't think I want one yeah it seems like La though people do settle down way later yeah so yeah I mean it's almost like the norm I feel like to really start settling down at least here in like your 40s it seems like that's about well also like I'm a [ __ ] actor man like my life changes all the time it can change in a phone call like and then I go and shoot in another city for a couple months or whatever like I've I've grown loving and accepting of the the way my life is dynamic if I lived in a one town uh and kind of my life kind of structure I'd probably want a girlfriend I'd want that I'd want to build that I'd want to do that I'm so aware that my life is changing all the time and that I want it to yeah that's not that's not the best grounds for like a relationship like hey I love this right now but also I'm always counting on the fact that my life is going to change or that it's going to take me to new places like next year that's not the most stable like okay you can count on me being here it seems very exciting though that's real life where it's like it could change every phone call every text you get every day is like a new opportunity there is something exciting about that yeah it's maddening but it's exciting and I'm [ __ ] I'm back on I'm back on it in a very real way that makes me like I'm stoked about it yeah I know I'm stoked what about your music yeah music's pretty good thanks man yeah thanks uh music's been a journey I've been doing that since I was 15. uh it is uh I was doing a lot during the pandemic and then 2021 something creatively died in me musically for the last couple years and uh it's slowly starting to come back around so I don't have any news to report except that I will make new music at some point and uh what kind of what crushed it for you there I don't know man just the creativity yeah like literally something in my creative connection to it something it's a natural process I've grown used to knowing myself well enough that like it like really just like skidded to a halt and died and I felt it I was like whoa I'm like not connected to any of my music and usually when that happens I don't fight it sure I don't I don't resist like creativity is so natural to me if it's not happening especially with music I'm so connected to it I knew like oh I can't fight this I just actually need to let all of this whatever this process there's a lot in our life we think we can control there's there's a lot that's just happening man and if you can just pay attention to it if you can get to know your into tuition well enough you just gotta like let some of these processes happen sometimes sometimes we're going through changes that we didn't choose but it's just our life man cycles of our life are like playing themselves out and creativity is a natural cycle and death is a part of creativity it's like people who could just create music like that though it could like just flip a switch like that sort of create a mind I just I love that oh me too yeah I love it and it's starting to flow again I'm starting to experiment and yes I I lose I know I love it because I lose time doing it like I'll sit down and all of a sudden it's midnight and I've been like sitting at my desk for eight hours like making music and it feels so good what's your creative process like um these days it's different so one of the things that that kind of died for me musical musically was I had written every song I'd ever written on guitar pretty much and I just got tired of that and so now I'm forging into experimenting with bedroom producing you know starting with just not guitar starting with a beat starting with something on keys and just like crafting songs differently um and it's really just I don't know it's just a beautiful flowing process I don't know maybe I think a little weed and I just [ __ ] try and find try and find a vibe that feels it's just like this deep beautiful listening to myself and life and what's coming through me and I love it man I'm excited there's there's some new music coming this year I can already feel it starting to cook it's in the it's in the unmanifest it's in the potential side of life right now and I can feel it just like whispering to me it's gonna be great you know who's back Skrillex have you seen yes his new records are fine you drop two new records and they're sick so you know what's so crazy is like a few months ago I was thinking whatever happened to Skrillex like and I don't care yeah but here I am thinking like I haven't seen or heard of him in like 10 years and then all of a sudden he comes up on my Tick Tock in the back of an Uber yeah he's like on his computer yeah and he's like look at what I just came up with and I don't know if this is real I tend to believe that like he's just crafting stuff and yeah Uber really good stuff yeah I mean they could have made that leave it they could have made that for the gram but yeah still no he's a he's a incredible musician he he is glad he's back oh he's amazing yeah oh you didn't know that no it's a very diverse uh he does hell yeah eclectic music but Skrillex do yeah Skrillex never left not really I feel like I feel like he did but his music because he's been out there working like you right yeah musicians are always doing scenes and he was so big like he's been out there doing D I mean he's been at Burning Man every year doing sick DJ sets like I guess I'm thinking more like the mainstream yeah yeah he's been on the radio stream but yeah he's been out there crashing DJ set the cool thing about being a DJ man is you can just go get jobs all over the world whenever you want if you're that big yes you can just book a show in any City and get a bunch of money and then go travel and do what you do like you know because even if you're not in the mainstream radio play Skrillex showing up to any club in any city in the world gonna be fire yeah um and I'm sure he's been doing it that whole time I got to work with uh Steve Aoki on a movie oh that's cool yes he's so funny he's great yeah Steve's So Dope uh we've done some Pokemon unboxings with him yeah man yeah uh he's insane he's like one of the most touring DJs in the world he like tours like 300 days out of the year yeah he's got his residency too in uh Vegas yep and he takes people and it's a blast I've been caked by him you've been caked yeah it was an honor how does it planned out or did kinda I mean it was at a show but he knew it was while he was in a movie I was shooting so he knew like me and some of the cast were gonna be there and caked us that's awesome how did that happen what do you mean did he just like were you in a crowd or was he just like yeah in the crowd did he look at you yeah it's just like yeah dude have you seen him do this yeah on I feel so bad for the person though no they love it they won it but ruined mine this man's aim this man is insane he does this at every show he points at someone like farther away and throws a cat like a huge case it's a full birthday cake man's amazing he hits them in the face every time his aim's impeccable I always think I'm a big fan like you see these people they're wearing nice clothes out but a lot of makeup on you know yeah but the amount of people that can say they've been caked by Steve Aoki I mean it's either face like just oh no it's a sticky mess oh it's a mess man it's a mentally and just like what do you oh it's a mess you have to leave you have to go shower we were covered in sugar it was crazy but it's so fun but it ends the night nah the night's done no there's no shower decision that's a mentality exactly yeah dude people are gonna [ __ ] eat you it's awesome you want people licking your head sounds terrible yeah I gotta live a little man but he goes on also so late like he goes on at like two to three o'clock in the morning I'm fast asleep at that time yeah yeah you gotta you gotta rage a little bit sometimes Graham oh Graham just Graham you guys same age completely different oh I know but I don't think you would race he has money and I don't so maybe there's something there I don't I don't think you would rage like what time would you go to bed look like regularly yeah like normal schedule I'm going to bed at like midnight right before but no I can reach her yeah yeah it's all about balance yeah I was I was up to like five on Saturday like Jack and I had a good night yeah I had a good night 5am where did you go uh we went to a club on the west side or a bar on the West Side there's a little birthday celebration I'm not sharing my spots okay I'm not sharing my spots on the podcast well we we like to go to Main Street main Street's fun we go out and about I like the Bungalow Bungalows yeah bungalow's all right all right it's all right see I'm not an LA guy so if I do know I'm not cheating on Bangla I don't go there but it's a Vibe is a Vibe good or bad I can't a vibe's good vibe is good yeah the vibe's A vibe it means it's something like it's it's it's got a Vibe it's got It's not like yeah Dave and Busters yeah the thing is it's either it is a Vibe or you bring the vibe okay you usually don't want to have to bring the vibe that's it but if it's not already there sometimes exactly so it's nice when it's the work is already done for you the environment it already has this facility Vibe it's not good yeah a whole bunch of strangers though sometimes I like the the atmosphere yeah Bungalow early when there's not a lot of people I like that and Logan gets so crowded yeah we went to a spot in Nashville terrible night terrible it was like sick High food poisoning make sure that was just that was just ramping up so like I was okay to be out but it was just like starting to feel a little queasy yeah but it was these buildings there were like six stories for no there were more than four there were more than four stories but you see each level is its own club yeah and they have all the windows all the windows open you just walk up the steps there's like a club walk up the steps Club yeah six stories yeah stacked terrible yeah it was terrible Different Strokes for different folks man yeah loud music you gotta push people to get around live music's fun the floor was doing this yeah that was scoring Graham yeah because it was so loud you can't hear anything so you can't talk no that's a difficult part yeah no but you you don't strike me as a dancer Graham I hate dancing uh yeah see there's your problem there's your problem right there it's just not going to be for you like when I go out I go dance you dance I just dance man how do you do that what do you mean what do you mean Instagram it's not about thinking you're in your eyes I love that question you just asked how do you dance you mean you're dancing yeah more than half the people watching this have no idea music and you move your body you turn off your brain your brain is completely off and you're just kind of having a good time exactly your arms tapping your feet obviously the only thing that really matters is a rhythm so yeah find the rhythm of the song you just worry people are watching me they're not because no one's watching it the thing is you're in your head that's it you have to turn off your brain and just exist and feel always like someone's gonna be like oh look at that guy dance he's trying to dance that guy is so much more insecure than you I got a question that I feel like I know the answer to but you ever done psychedelic script no I knew you haven't why I'm just gonna leave that there no no I'm curious no tell me tell me I'm curious yeah well because to dance you have to get out of your head and getting out of your head can be very hard for a lot of people um and uh psychedelics won't always do it but that's one way to literally have an experience where you go oh I let go of my mind for a moment and everything I'd be afraid of being changed after that like because I I've seen some people have tried it and then afterwards they're not the same person and I like who I am as a person so like I don't want to risk that that's fair and then I think what's the benefit oh maybe I could dance at some point in the future like is that is that worth the trip no it sounds like incredible I don't like dance I don't like it yeah and you might not ever like it but dancing is incredible it's not that you don't like dancing you just don't like being uncomfortable and because dancing isn't something that comes naturally to you nor is it something that like you I don't practice it's different and and don't enjoy trying something new for you is uncomfortable no it's not that you don't enjoy if you knew how to dance you would enjoy it I think so that's it if you felt it's free enough to even discover how to dance [Music] it's also like inherent to our social structures and biology through Malay look at this from technological perspective I know but look at that and I'm like look at them moving their body in such a way to a beat it's just strange to comprehend that it's like but logically this is something inherent to our Humanity that's been around for Millennia but if I look at like like in nature you don't see any other like you do like I don't know like you don't see frogs just going like I do bump into your lips no you do you see yeah you see birds birds you see birds okay maybe birds mating dances or anything it's just weird I don't know it's not weird man and also if it is weird what's so bad about being weird that's what I gotta know but that's why I was curious yeah night out's not gonna be your thing because it is too loud to talk that's one of the things I don't love about going out or it's one of the things I don't love about trying to meet a woman out is I can't actually hear if it's a stranger stranger yeah like we can dance for a moment and maybe we have an attraction but if I can't like actually talk without yelling like it's too hard to have that first conversation so I don't love that um but I do love just going to dance me my friends we just go down my guy friends like we go yeah you go to just let loose forget about everything that's happening in your life get out of your head you just go you listen to music and you just have fun you just that's it that's it I love watching your face process this sounds exhausting it's just not like that wouldn't relax me it's okay it's getting into a flow state where you're not just like constantly thinking that's all it is and you have your own ways of getting into your Flow State that will work for you but the thing is doesn't matter like you can try out other other ways like when you when you make music because I know you like making music when you play piano when you edit like those are times where you get into a flow State that's true yeah even when you're at the gym then dance but but you dislike it before you give it an honest I've given it effort no you're having it Macy's drag me on this no you haven't set yourself free but I've been set yourself free if you ever if you ever accidentally end up at Burning Man and accidentally take some ecstasy and listen to Skrillex you're gonna dance no I don't think that's ever gonna happen I like I said accidentally you stumble upon burning and then you stumble into some ecstasy you don't of course not I'm just saying to get through this barrier around dance he might need the drugs a hard case Jack yeah he might need the drugs [Music] that's not entirely true I I will say in in my psychedelic experience um no you can have an experience on psychedelics why I'm very excited that the FDA is getting closer to approving psychedelic assisted therapy yeah um you can have an experience uh on a psychedelic that changes your life moving forward sober it can show you a spectrum of what's possible inside yourself in terms of like acceptance love expression integrating yourself and do it in a way that even when you come off it you go oh wow I know something different about myself in the world now even if you do them once or twice it's why I'm very I'm really stoked for the work that's being done to bring them into the like therapy space bring them into the PTSD space bring them into maybe couples therapy space [Music] um and do it with a protocol like through the FDA that's like really safe and really regulated I think that's a great thing for our society to be honest yeah because like I did it I had great experiences but I did it the normal Reckless way of just like being somewhere and taking [ __ ] right and ending up having some great experiences that have really enriched my life but that is uh there's a lot of variables to those experiences and doing it through like an actual like regulated body I think is nice it's gonna be good for the world yeah yeah so one day well when you're in there I'll say doing doing assist psychedelic assistive therapy and uh the MDMA is coursing through your veins and they put on Skrillex oh God a little Graham in his little private space yeah and your head's gonna bomb tap like you've never tapped before gonna feel free and not uncomfortable and I hope in that moment Graham you think of Devon workheiser okay I hope you think of this conversation and you say Ned told me that is everywhere in nowhere at the same time Ned's dancing guide this would be funny as a Ned's Survival guy like tip number like two three two seconds two psychedelic assisted therapy and free up your ability to dance oh that's a good way to end honestly that's a great final tip we can't protect that well thank you so much what do you want to shout it who's your audience 18 to 35 85 male man it's similar to mine so what's up guys um if you like podcasts I have growing up with Devin new episodes are every Tuesday that's that's my Exploration with people um about the transition between adolescence and adulthood and it covers a lot of different topics and I interview a lot of different people a lot of uh former entertainers you know or still entertainers Ned's cast I've got Lindsay and Daniel on there um Kendall from Big Time Rush my friend Jax who's an amazing singer-songwriter Allison Stoner like there's tons of great people I had great Finance people on uh Tori Dunlap who I love uh her first 100K she gave us a great talk on finances um but that's just my it's that exploration the transition from adolescence to adulthood is is uh different for all of us but there's so much that is the same and so I interview guests on that and it's entertaining and also I hope uh meaningful and inspirational and then the Ned's pod re-watch pod it's utter Insanity we talk about pooping half the time it's it's a it's a great time uh with me Lindsay and Daniel new episodes every Wednesday what else that's kind of it for now there's there's a lot in the works but that's the deal right now go check out my pods and say hi to me on social media you know you kind of look similar to Bo Burnham I've heard that before I think it's the beard it's the beard I was noticing that halfway through the podcast like who does he look like Bo Burnham I love Bo Burnham he's good I did a tick tock uh after watching inside uh where I I play on that idea that I look like Bo Burnham all right follow him on Tick Tock guys follow me on Tick Tock thank you so much thanks for having me I think we could help with this let us know I will I need a house no all right I'm just kidding I love renting all right good luck editing man foreign