Video summary
Jordan Peterson addresses Elon Musk's recent comment describing his mind as a storm, suggesting that most people would not actually want to be him despite their admiration for his achievements. The core argument presented is that high-level genius often manifests as hypermania, a state where the individual operates at an accelerated mental pace without remission. To illustrate this phenomenon, Peterson introduces a verbal fluency test involving writing down four-letter words starting with specific letters within three minutes; he notes a powerful correlation between the sheer volume of words produced and lifetime creative achievement in artistic or verbal domains. While vocabulary measures understanding, fluency reflects production speed, revealing that some individuals can generate 150 words compared to others who manage only 12, indicating minds functioning at five times the normal rate. Peterson explains that when this accelerated thinking becomes completely uncontrolled, it leads to mania, a pathological state where an individual might pursue thousands of one-sentence-long plans with hyper-enthusiasm until their resources are depleted and things go wrong. He cites Elon Musk as someone clearly contending with such intense internal landscapes but notes he does not appear manic because his creativity is balanced by extreme conscientiousness. Peterson contrasts this with figures like Russell Brand or Ben Shapiro, who speak rapidly due to thinking five times faster than average, requiring external mechanisms like heavy weightlifting and alcohol consumption during the writing of *Maps of Meaning* to shut off their nonstop thought processes that could last up to 16 hours a day. The discussion highlights the rarity of combining hyper-creativity with high conscientiousness, noting that there is generally no correlation between these traits; finding someone who ranks in the top tier for both makes them approximately one person in a million or even a billion. Peterson uses Eric Weinstein as an example of extreme creativity lacking conscientiousness, which led him to find specific occupations like working as Peter Thiel's "idea man" where his lack of focus was not detrimental. In contrast, Musk represents a unique statistical anomaly who is both hyper-creative and hyper-conscientious, allowing his executive function to wrangle diffuse creative energy into focused projects before moving on to new endeavors. Ultimately, the podcast segment concludes by reframing public perception of geniuses like Elon Musk, emphasizing that the price paid for such extraordinary ability includes significant internal turmoil and potential instability. Peterson argues that while society admires the external rewards—such as releasing bulletproof cars or putting rockets in space—the "baggage" associated with a mind operating at such an extreme capacity is substantial and often misunderstood by those who aspire to be like them. The interview serves as a cautionary look at the dark side of intelligence, where the very traits that enable monumental innovation can also lead to manic episodes if not managed through rare combinations of personality strengths or external coping strategies.
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there was a recent interview with Elon
Musk where he said something my mind is
a storm I don't think most people would
want to be me right they may think they
would want to be me but they don't they
don't know they don't understand what do
you think of that Elon someone that
people probably look up to and admire
and aspire to be one of the downsides to
high level genius is you might describe
it as
hypermania so
here's a simple test that people can do
so this is a test of something called
verbal fluency and verbal fluency is
associated with creativity and so a ver
here's a simple verb verbal fluency test
write down as many four-letter words as
you can in three minutes that begin with
t okay that's that's pretty constrained
four letters in t or or write down as
many words as you can in three minutes
to begin with S that's less constrained
all right so there's quite a powerful
correlation between the sheer number of
words that you produce and your lifetime
creative achievement right especially in
the artistic and verbal
domains that's different than vocabulary
vocabulary is how many words you
understand fluency is how many words you
can produce in a given amount Dey 12
those words yeah well people vary to a
degree that you can hardly imagined so
some people if you get them to do the
four-letter test in 3 minutes they'll
write down like 12 words and some will
write down
150 and the ones who are writing down
150 their minds are going at a hypomanic
rate they're just thinking five times as
fast binging yeah without any remission
whatsoever and you know when that gets
completely out of control you have manic
you have someone who's Manic and there's
nothing fun about manic that's where the
word maniac comes from and someone who's
manic has a thousand different plans
Each of which are one sentence long that
they're hyper enthusiastic about they'll
spend every scent of their money
pursuing them and things just go
immediately to hell and so that's the
that's the outer limit of pathology on
the creative front and someone like musk
who's clearly a genius that's what he's
contending with in his internal
landscape now I'm not saying that he's
manic because I see no signs of that but
someone that creative is on that edge or
you see someone like Ben shapo I mean
it's very interesting to talk to Ben
because and Russell Brand is the same
way Shapiro speaks I think more rapidly
than anyone I ever met but if you're
with him you see very clearly that he's
probably thinking five times that fast
and that's a lot and when I was writing
maps of meaning which was my first book
I had a very difficult time shutting off
my mind I was obsessed with that book
and so I was writing about 3 hours a day
and then I was thinking about the
material like for 12 hours
as and the thoughts came
as way faster than thinking they
probably came about as fast as I can
read I can read about 1200 words a
minute if the material isn't
overwhelmingly dense and so it was just
nonstop thought for like 16 hours a day
that's part of the reason I started
lifting weights because if I was lifting
heavy thinking of 12200 words a minute
while I've got 100 pounds on myly it was
enough it was enough to shut it down
yeah and it was also one of the reasons
that I drank because that was another
thing that would shut it off yeah well I
I think the price that people pay to be
the person that you admire is just such
an interesting frame to look at someone
like Elon Musk my mind is a storm I
don't think most people would want to be
me the price that you would have to pay
in order to be me is not one that you
would but you one of the richest men on
the planet and you get to you know dance
on stage and and release cars that are
bulletproof and put rockets in space and
stuff well yeah but what about all of
the baggage what's the pr what's well
he's also he also appears to me to be
hyper conscientious and I know people
who've worked with him like musk isn't
just a creative genius he's also an
extremely conscientious engineer which
and really conscientious Engineers they
have very interesting Minds I like
talking to Engineers because my
brother-in-law is a great engineer and
when when he understands something Jim
when he understands something he
understands how to build it out of atoms
right like he understands it at every
single level and musk appears to me to
be someone who's this rare combination
of hyper creative but also hyper
conscientious and I know he works all
the time yeah does that sort of uh
hypertrophied executive function help to
Wrangle some of the diffuse Creative
Energy oh we're going to put it into
this one thing at least for a while and
then we'll move on to another thing yes
yes definitely definitely you you Eric
WI is a good example of someone I hope
Eric isn't annoyed by this but Eric is
unbelievably creative but he's not
particularly conscientious and so his
and and I think he found an occupation
where that works extremely well because
he's he I don't know if he's still doing
this but he worked with Peter teal for
quite a long time as his idea man right
and Eric's an extremely interesting
person musk is hyper creative and as far
as I can tell hyper conscientious and
the conscientiousness does Focus know it
it and and that lots of people who are
creative aren't conscientious well it's
rare like if you're one in the there's
no correlation between creativity and
conscientiousness okay so if you're one
in a thousand if you're the most
creative person in the thousand and
you're the most conscientious person in
a thousand you're one person in a
million and musk is probably more like
one person in 100 million right
something like that maybe more but or
maybe a billion right maybe in other
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