“The Clash Of The Turbans” - Imam Tawhidi EXPOSES Islam Extremism, Iran’s Regime & War On The West

Kmeni is the Persian Hitler. That's exactly how you need to look at them. >> Kmeni is the Persian Hitler >> 100%. Someone who could execute 30,000 people with no trial. >> What percentage of Muslims around the world would be seen as extremism. Osama bin Laden, for example, many people do not know he was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Al-Qaeda came from the Muslim Brotherhood. ISIS came from the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas is the paramilitary wing [music] of the Muslim Brotherhood. But Obama brought to them and made them the face of the Muslim community in America. The Muslim population in America. Why do you say Obama? That's when they declared victory. They became advisers to the White House. Kame is useless. This guy is a real criminal, Patrick. There needs to be the clash of the turbans. Turbans need to start crashing. >> Did you ever think you were supposed [music] >> What's your point? The future looks bright. >> My handshake is better than anything I ever signed. Right here. [music] >> You are a 101. My son's right. >> I don't think I've ever said this before. >> Today we have a special guest with us, Imam Muhammad Toidi. Tohidi Tahawidi depending on how you pronounce it. I'm from Iran, Tohidi. And uh this is a very very interesting figure. I've been listening to watching for many many years. He is the governing member of the global imams council, adviser to counterterrorism at trends research and advisory. Imam Toidi, it's great to have you on the podcast. >> Delighted to be here. Thank you for having me. >> Anytime. Okay. So, uh there's a lot of topics I want to go through, but before we get started, uh if you don't mind, take a minute and maybe share your background before we get into the questions so the audience knows. >> Sure. Uh my name is uh Muhammad Talhidi. I'm a third generation imam. I am an ordained Islamic cleric. I was ordained in the holy city of Bum in Iran which you're familiar with. >> And uh I'm a Australian citizen. I currently reside in North America and I also have extensive travel in the Middle East with a focus on the UAE. I uh specialize in Islamic law and um my faith for those wondering I am a orthodox Shia Muslim. Uh orthodox is not an Islamic term but it is the closest uh for the listener to um understand that I am not a reformist in any way. I believe in reform of societies uh reform that does not involve change of religion. So I I I want religion to remain what God revealed it as and not man-made because man-made is not accepted within Islam. >> Okay. So the current population of Islam is what 1.7 1.8 1.9 billion >> climbing up two billion. >> Climbing up to two billion. Okay. >> How many people of the Muslim Islamic community, how many of them >> view things the way you do? I've heard you say about this before. It's not a big percentage of people, but for you a lot of people call you the imam of peace. I think your handle is even I imam of peace. You may even call yourself imam of peace, right? And there's always a, you know, confusion between this is the religion of peace, but we saw what happened on 9/11. This is religion of peace, but we saw what happened with uh Hamas and Israel. This is the religion of peace, but we saw what happened in Australia just recently. this the religion of peace but so but to me you seem you seem pretty peaceful to me you give me the vibes that you actually are trying to pursue peace however of the 1.9 billion give or take close to two billion how many of them think the way you do >> right so I am a follower of my religion and to break it down in a uh in such a simple way I don't think it would be fair for the religion itself or for its adherence or for countries like the UAE, Bahrain who are working very hard to establish peace and harmony uh or their populations. So the distinction we need to make is between Islam and Islamism. Islam as a religion and Islamism as a contemporary political ideology that uses Islam to gain power. And Islamists are not a monolith. So there are Islamists who believe in uh participating in democratic um principles. you will find them running for Congress. >> And you have those who will uh simply engage in jihad and jihad can be categorized in many many ways. Uh and I mean violent jihad. I don't mean the struggle of the self against one's desires. >> No, I mean going into a society and changing it. going into a community and hijacking their values and then preventing the host community from enjoying those values free speech, freedom of religion, expression and so on. So I would advise that we this we need to separate we need to draw a fine line between the Muslim Brotherhood that was in the west first and the Muslims who came afterwards who just want to lead a normal life. So there is no percentage that I can give you because we're not talking about the same issue. We're talking about a group of people who have hijacked a religion and those people need to be understood because in um in Arabic we say which means you're stirring beside the the pot or beside the cup. We need to stir in the cup in order to get the flavor of the sugar we put in it. So that's exactly what the extremists want to do. The extremist doesn't tell you he's an extremist. >> And the Islamist doesn't tell you he's an Islamist. They tell you we're Muslim. Osama bin Laden, for example, many people do not know he was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Ala came from the Muslim Brotherhood. ISIS came from the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas is the paramilitary wing of the Muslim Brotherhood. This is not Sunni Islam. This is an organization with its own charter. That's the distinction we need to make. Otherwise, we will be discussing an issue that is very distant from the disease itself. Okay. So, how different do you view the world? So, let's let's put them in a different community. So, I think it's very important to do this. Uh uh you have those who are the extremist, okay, which you're kind of talking about. Then you have those who came afterwards, not the first Muslim Brotherhood that came. The other ones that just came, they're like, "Look, I just want to live in America. I just want to live in Australia. I just live in I just want to live my life and have a regular life." Then you have those who are like you, you know, claiming, presenting peace as the basis of the way you want to live. Okay. Give me in your when you're talking to Tommy Robinson, you said, "I think there's around 5 million people like me, like you." Then he said, "And really really like me?" It's only about 500,000 people that are like me. You said this to Tommy, I think seven or eight years ago when you guys did an interview. Okay. But today, if you're able to break it down, I think the the the extremist is this, the people in that are just living their regular life is this and this or maybe even if you want to add anything else to it as well, how would you break down those sects? Yeah, I think I uh was very uh general when speaking to uh Tommy in that interview and I believe I believe uh I understood the question to be within Australia. So how many like you within Australia and I still believe those numbers are accurate. I think the majority of Muslims are not only supportive of peace, they lead a peaceful lifestyle and they do not want to see uh the Muslim Brotherhood or Bin Laden or ISIS or Hamas as their representatives. >> And the evidence of that uh I would point to is the reaction to October 7. >> How many did we see flood the streets in support of Hamas? How many did we see? I could safely say across the American continent round about 150,000 would have flooded the streets between Toronto and Montreal and and New York. Uh and and that continues, but it's the same community. I don't think we saw 3 million flood the streets Muslims supporting Hamas. That did not happen. And that be turns into a policy question. Until when is the White House and uh parliaments around the world going to allow the Muslim Brotherhood to be the face of the Muslim community? Cuz that's exactly what it is in Obama's time. K, which congratulations to Florida and to Texas. Uh I think a very very important move designating care as a terrorist entity. >> Um >> which they're being sued right now. By the way, I don't know if you saw that. If there's anything we could do as experts on Islam and on counterterrorism uh to support the state of Florida against care and Texas against care, please reach out. I'll say this, >> I don't know whether they'll win or lose. It does not matter. The point is we cannot allow them to operate freely. >> Uh and I do understand there is a lack of uh Muslim expertise pushing back against K because they're intimidated by them. They're like a mafia. That's exactly what they are. They're a Muslim mafia and so congratulations to that. That is a very important distinction because care cannot walk into certain mosques. Please don't think care has the ability to walk into any mosque in America. No, they'll be kicked out. They have their own mosques. They have their own centers that they It's like a ghetto. So they're very isolated. But Obama brought to them and made them the face of the Muslim community in America. The Muslim population in America. >> Why do you say Obama? because that's when they declared victory, they became advisers to the White House. If a president of the United States of America hosts a Ramadanar where Muslims break their fast and then he brings a member of the Muslim Brotherhood community to initiate the call to prayer, that is a symbolic victory for the Muslim Brotherhood worldwide. That is the that's like infiltration 95% for them. That's how they see it. And they simply go back and tell their members, you know, it's it's not just about symbolism. It's more about motivation. Because the Muslim Brotherhood can go 10 months with no success and all of a sudden Ramadan comes and they're in the White House. So, it's it somewhat validates everything that they have been doing before they came into the White House and it will by extension validate everything they do afterwards. Okay. So fair, which is celebration. Totally get it. That's a big deal. I also think Mandani winning New York City is also a big victory because they they're taking over the financial capital of the world. That's a massive validation when when Mandani won. But again, let's go back to it. So you're saying when you saw October 7th happen, how many people did you see worldwide or in the streets? Canada, US, I 150,000. Fair. We can debate that number and we can fact check that number. What >> worldwide? I think it's more. Okay. So, it's a it's a massive number that happened worldwide, but that's not the question I'm asking. I'm going to come back to the comment you made about this, but this is the question I'm asking. What percentage we've seen the numbers, but according to you, this is your world, your study, and anything and every article that comes out when I was in the insurance space for 20 years. Any article that came out on the insurance space, I have to read it because it's my world. So, this is your world. What percentage of Muslims around the world would be seen as extremists? Sunni Shia doesn't matter. What percentage would you say as extremist? >> I do not believe I could give you a percentage because it would need to be based on studies on this issue and I am unaware of a study that uh presents it in this manner. But I can tell you this the UAE how about we speak on a very realistic level so I can actually answer your question in a different way. Uh, I might not be able to give you a percentage, but I want to give you an honest answer. Decisions in the Muslim world happen where they happen in Riyad, in Saudi Arabia. They happen in Mecca and they happen in Abu Dhabi, the UAE. They don't happen in Thran. And they don't happen anywhere else. This is important. The decision makers of the Muslim world, both religion and region, are heading in a direction that is not only about the Abraham Accords, but it's more towards peace, coexistence, harmony, prosperity, building bridges with societies, total rejection of extremism, and so on. That is a massive society because it's not only about numbers. If we're talking numbers, then we have to go to Indonesia because they have the largest Muslim population >> uh per country. Mhm. >> But and they're 98% 90 98 92% some like they're massive. >> So they don't make decisions for the Muslim world. It happens in Saudi Arabia. My message is more than welcome in Saudi Arabia. My message is more than welcome in the UAE. And the same applies to Bahrain. I'm not saying it's not welcome in Indonesia. No, it is. But there are decision makers in the Muslim world. And if the decision makers are heading in a certain direction that should be able to answer where the religion is heading in terms of direction and mood and priorities and so on and will also give you a clear understanding of the future of the religion if it is being led by Abu Dhabi the Abraham Accords the Abrahamic family house that sort of narrative and total rejection of the Muslim Brotherhood. So I though I can't give you a percentage of how many Muslims out of the two billion are extremist, how many are fundamentalist, how many are just u Muslim by name, how many are practicing, how many practice only in Ramadan, that's a breakdown that I cannot provide honestly. But what I can say is that the decision makers of the Muslim world are heading in a direction that is very positive. Right? And I also believe that they are being supported greatly by the rest of the Muslim world. Pakistan for example, the Muslims in India for examp, Saudi Arabia and the UAE are doing. And there are other countries that are not in line, right? Such as the Palestinian territories uh and and others that are obvious. Okay, so this is this is let's use basic simple stats. I've seen all the way up to 20% extremist, which I think that's BS. And I've seen all the way down to 1%, which I also think it's a low number. Let's use 5%. Let's use 10%. Pick a number between 5 to 10%. Most numbers you can see will give you a number between 1 and 10%. a lot of studies that are out there per percent is 20 million per percent is 20 million right so if we go to 5% that's roughly aundred million give or take right okay so now imagine a 100 million is a third of America you know 100 million at 5% is a third of America 100 million when you look at Australia Australia may be a lot of land but it's not a lot of people, right? [clears throat] >> Canada may be a lot of land, not a lot of people. UK may be a big island, you know, it's so when you when you then break it down that number and they go into these different countries. So now imagine you are the leader of that country, you're the president of that country and President Trump comes to you as an adviser. Kirst comes to you as an adviser. Mark Carney comes to you as an adviser saying, "Imam Tawidi, you sound very reasonable. You sound extremely peaceful. You sound like somebody I can sit down and have a conversation with. We can laugh. We can talk. And I feel the genuineess from you." Right? What do I do when I'm dealing with immigration? when I know a 100 million of this sect this religion Muslim Islam is extremist and they support the violence a big percentage support you know say you put one or three% support what Houthis Hamas Hezbollah you know I live with Hezbollah in Iran I was there for 10 11 years I've met many many many members of Hezbollah because you know my sister and my mom we would walk in the streets and you would see things and they would pull up and like oh my god shivering you're worried about what they're going going to do next to you. You live in fear. It's not a nice place to be. How do we filter out who we let in and who we don't? Do you use a zero tolerance policy? Don't let anybody in. Do you take the risk with what we took immigration the last four years in America under Biden that people came in and who knows what percent? How? Because our job is to protect America first, right? What advice would you give to them? Yeah, your immigration policy needs to be tied to your understanding of sovereignty. So if sovereignty is sacred, then immigration policy needs to be looked at through the same lens. You cannot have a weak soft immigration policy at all. The UAE is a perfect example. So is Saudi Arabia. How is immigration doing there? It's perfect. 200 nationalities living together. Why? because there is an excellent, not just good, an excellent vetting system. You cannot be someone who ha who harbors uh jihadi ideology and simply apply for a visa to go to a Gulf state. They won't accept you because there is a serious vetting system. And if they figure out that you somehow got through, and by the way, there are some famous people who built a career simply because they were deported out of the UAE during the Arab Spring, the so-called Arab Spring. Um, the policy is beautiful. The minute they figure out they made a mistake because they let someone in who then went online and made a comment or supported a certain narrative that is against national security, immediately, knock, where's your bags? Pack up. DXP Dubai airport straight out of the country. There is no negotiation when it comes to safety. Why? Because it's a security decision. So, American immigration policy needs to be looked at through a security lens, not a political lens. That's what we're seeing in America. Everything with regards to the border has been a political question, not a security question. In in the Middle East, the borders are looked at through the lens of security. That is why there are zero terrorist extremists in Abu Dhabi. That is why there is no one blowing himself up in Riad in Jedda. That's why it's a it's it's very important that we speak in this manner. Though it may be foreign to the American listener, but the understanding of national security in the Middle East is very different because we know these people. The extremists that are migrating to the west are those who were rejected from our societies are those who would be in prison. Muslim Brotherhood communities. You can mention millions of extremists to me. I will not deny that. I'll tell you you know what that is exactly right and if we go to those individuals and we understand their ideology one way or another it will take us back to the Muslim Brotherhood an organization that is 98 years old who planned this disaster 100 years ago Patrick how do I deal with a politician who thinks in four-year terms how do you discuss immigration with a politician whose mentality ends in four years and who sits with you 9 to5. So whatever you tell him, he looks through a he he he puts he fits you in through the 9 to5 schedule. After 5 he's in a bar, he's you know he's out of this world. Fighting Islamist extremism is my life. I don't have a 9 to5 schedule. I can't sit with a a lawmaker who before meeting with me is dealing with I don't know something with the economy and then he wants to deal with LGBTQ with all due respect issues. It's not about listening to us. It's about listening, following up and acting upon it. Which is why I have a policy between me and myself. If I sit with a lawmaker and I give him advice and he doesn't listen and something goes wrong, I will never speak to them again. There are no second chances because this community we understand. We lived with them. We ran away from them. We can identify them without having to study about it. We know these people. When we say they're a threat, they're a threat on many level. Not not just on many levels, not just [clears throat] because they reject America. No, no, no. The whole idea [clears throat] of immigration needs to be uh revisited simply because not all immigrants are equal. Not all immigrants are equal. And I dare mention someone like Ilhan Omar. I would not see her as a legitimate immigrant to America. I simply don't. There is a vast difference between her and a Muslim who came from another Muslim country who built an amazing career in America and serves in the military for example and defends America and you will find those Muslims who side against her and her policies and they're very visible. What would happen if she went to [clears throat] UAE or Saudi? What would they do with her if she said she wants to go be a resident there? Would they welcome her? There are laws in place. If she enters lawfully, I imagine that um she again I'm I'm not a decision maker here on immigration, but I imagine those who follow the law will be treated by the law uh equally. But I doubt for a single second Muslim Brotherhood narrative will be accepted for a single second. I doubt you know a like of a post by care could get you deported. There is absolutely zero tolerance to extremism. Absolutely. In the UAE and when I say absolutely I mean from top down. the the youngest UAE citizen will not accept extremism. It's that serious. And and look, if you if you're looking for freedom of expression, you'll find it. But freedom of expression does not mean I get to say I want you beheaded. That's not a view that is considered respectful or an ideology that has a place or should have a place within society. You know, the extremists in America openly say, "We are here to bring down democracy." That's exactly what they say. We are here to establish a global caliphate. We want Sharia law. Right? Try that in Saudi Arabia and see how long you last. Try that in Abu Dhabi. See how long you last. The thing with religion is it came to guide. So I'm a Muslim. I believe that God sent a religion to guide me. Religion is not here to rule by the sword. Religion is a source of spirituality and and and um taking the human hand by by their hand to areas where they can excel in their humanity in their moral u understanding of life in religion in their rel relationship between themselves and God. That's the role of religion. The minute you turn the Quran into a constitution like we have in Iran where people are being hung and beheaded, that's when you know, okay, so Islam has been used as a constitution so many can become king of Iran. And that's what he is. He's a king. He's not a cleric. He's not a man of God. Persia was always ruled by kings. And now we have a king with a turban. That's exactly what he is. Not a man of God. He's a pharaoh. He's a Persian pharaoh. Kame is the Persian pharaoh. >> Kmeni is a is a king of king of Iran. Okay. So why do you say that? Because what? Because he can do anything and everything. And the whole idea of [clears throat] a de of of elections in Iran is a farce. It's fake. There are no elections in Iran whatsoever. No Iranian has a voice under the system of which is the the the guardianship of the jurist. Can I just explain that to the American listener? Now, uh we're familiar with communism. We're familiar with socialism, democracy. There is a system in Iran that's not just theocracy. It is the guardianship of the jurist which means or a person in his position before him is the guardian over all Muslims, not just the Shia Muslims, even the Sunnis. He claims he's the guardian over Islam. The Pakistanis, the Malaysians, Indonesians, Saudis, UAE. It's ridiculous. Okay, what does that mean? It means he has the authority, absolute authority on behalf of God to do whatever he wants. He can look at you and say, "Patrick, you and your wife are divorced." And boom, just like that, your your marriage is terminated simply because he said so. So the whole idea that 90 million people are expected to vote for a president and then the president goes and kisses the hand of Kame and says you know what ignore the people whatever you say I will do that is the biggest scam in the history of scams that the Iranian people have to live through you know and it's not not just a disaster it's something that is somehow tolerated by the international community especially the Europeans they tolerate it there are no elections in Iran United Nations S what do you have? You have a president. You have prime minister attend. You have kings attend. Fine. You have chancellors. You have chairman of of certain parties attend like the CCP. Fine. But there is no such thing as a president. And then above him there is the supreme Islamic leader who rules on behalf of God who gets to run the country and he thinks in his mind run the world the way he wants. That is Islamism. There is no such thing as God speaking to telling him you're my deputy on behalf of the savior the so kill as you like bomb as you like. Butcher as you like. There is no such thing in the Quran that says that. What we have is a regime. We don't even have a government in Iran. There is no government. And it's very wrong for people to think there is a government system in Iran. There is no it's a regime. It's a cult. a cult of clerics that govern Iran in the name of God. Why? Because it's the best tool to use against populations in mass religion. Because the minute you oppose, it's not that you opposed uh the ruler. No, no, no. You're certainly not Muslim anymore. How can you oppose the supreme ruler who is the guardian on behalf of God and his savior on planet Earth? So clearly you're not a Muslim. Clearly you can't be praying because if you pray then you would have had the piety to stand with the regime and if that's the case then you must also eat pork and slowly slowly they will drive you out of anything called faith and that's when you become a execution you're a corruptor on planet earth and so on. We need to distinguish between Islam and Islamism because there is a lot there that the Islamist relies upon you to ignore. The Islamist will not tell you I am an Islamist and they are Muslims. No, he'll tell you I am Muslim and they're again extremist doesn't tell you he's an extremist and Islamist doesn't tell you he's an Islamist. They're using the religion. Half of them don't even pray. You think Alhan Omar can recite the Quran? You think she can open the page and start reading that? Impossible. These people, the majority of care, don't even know the structure and the chronology of the Quran. They don't even know the context behind revelation. These are people who, if they need anything now, chbt, that's their faith. But governments have allowed them to be the face of the Muslim community in America. >> In 2009, 2008, late December 2008, you went back to Rome, right? To go to school there for three years. and Rome >> from 2008 until 2013. >> Right. But you went back 0809 to go to school there and you were there for for two uh 2013. Yes. And Rome is where Kame is from I believe if I'm not mistaken. K is in Rome. If not, that is where he studied with Ruah Kmeni back in the days when they were fighting against the Sha in in the plans of the first time exiled, the second time exiled. have tried multiple different time and he was kicked out and he went to all over the place and then eventually at France when you went to school there [clears throat] you can break down what the school structure is so the audience can also understand when you went to school there at what point was it when you said I can't subscribe to this teaching I got to get out of here what what caused that >> okay beautiful question now was born in mashed that'san the other side of the country. Um, Mhashad and are very important. So our listeners, Om is where the holy shrine of hazatsum is the sister of Imam Riza who is buried in Mshad. Imam Riza is the eighth successor of the holy prophet. So we are uh 12 12 vers. We have 12 imams. Number eight is Imam Riza. So that's a holy city of Mashed. And I was born in the holy city of Om. And I went back to study in the holy city of Om in December 2008. and I stayed until 2013. Now, and both studied in the holy city of and including Hassan, the former secretary general of they all studied in. >> Now, Om is a seminary that has education that is basic, intermediary and somewhat entry level into the advanced studies. People usually finish their studies in and then head over to Najaf in Iraq which is the main ancient seminary uh for Shia Muslims uh in the world and that's a thousand years old. When it comes to Om was a open society, an open seminary where you had mosques and Islamic centers and you had a cleric, a senior cleric who had 20, 30 up to a thousand students sit around him and he would speak about theology, Islamic law, doctrine, ethics, mysticism, you name it. Come the Iranian revolution of 1979, and by the way, it's not an Iranian revolution. There's nothing Iranian about it. The listeners need to know that Kummeni was an Indian man, right? He's not even Iranian. Um, but it was a Islamist revolution, not an Islamic revolution, an Islamist revolution. Coming to the 1979, Kmeni understood that he had to do something about these clerics. He had to do something about Islamic law that is governing Iran and governing society. So what he did was is that he turned these freestyle education circles and systems into institutions and he turned the seminary into a university and he called it al- Mustafa International University. The university which I studied in and I should say Patrick one of the best decisions I made in my life as I always say was withdrawing from that university. >> Why is that? because it is the university that is ruled by the IRGC, ruled by the military that is responsible for supporting and Hamas and the Houthi and so on. But um we should also mention that it is not a university like the traditional universities that we have. It is the umbrella organization for over 10 15,000 schools and institutions educational and seminaries in Iran across the country and now even in the Middle East and they have deputies everywhere recruiting students now. Uh so it's building on on street is not an actual university you can go in and study. No, it is a administration that sends you off to another university. When you graduate from that university, you get a certificate from al- Mustafa University. So these guys will teach you a revolutionary Islam. How do we export the revolution of Kumi to Australia, to America, to Canada? How do we bring American citizens? And if I could just ask, could you on Google just put um uh ali school with an I? Yeah. School. Q M. Yeah. Okay. That's the first one there. You see that is where Americans go to. Click on that first picture for me, please. Okay. So, you see on the left side where that white banner is, that's my room. I was in there with 13 students. That's my dormatory. The first level is where you have the uh uh classrooms >> and that you see at at the bottom there that that rails the blue and white rails at the bottom that there takes you to the basement. >> Okay. Beneath there there are more classrooms that look just the same. So first level, second level from the top coming down are where students sleep and then the ground floor is the classrooms and beneath that is more classrooms. My room is room number 13 where no on on the right side where the uh uh banner is >> that's where you were at? >> That's where I was for 2 years. This is where the British, the Australians, the Westerners who are taken from the west are taken here. Why? to learn Farsy. You learn Farsy, you can understand what Kame is saying. He can move you properly. This is the first thing they do. You see those two pictures there? >> Mhm. >> That's the main library that was added in later and at the very top. That's a library that was added later. That's higher. Who gets to go there? Anybody can go to that library? Yes. Because everyone here is vetted. Everyone here is an asset. So the deputy of al- Mustafa University who comes to the west sees you as an asset. Okay, Immidi Australian passport, you speak English, you speak Arabic, you're somewhat charismatic, you're convincing. You know what? Let's take you to and so this is where the brainwashing happened. From here they take you to the Friday sermons of this is where they first come in. First year is Farsy and second year is they call it Tamia which is the basics of Islam. Then you move on to the university university style seminaries. Right now here's the issue. They say one year but it's never one year. We have 12 imams. All of them except one have funeral days three days. Birthdays three days. uh you know the holidays of the revolution, the victory, this that this that you're looking at a year and a half to two years here for for learning Farsy and they use that to not just strengthen your language but for you to be accustomed with this region this street. >> Who were some of your classmates? >> Okay, before we get there, next door is the py of the bases. The besiege which are the uh the youth corpse of the IRGC is literally next door to this building. So my classmates are I'm going to say this and I haven't said this before. The clerics who are now running the alutz march which is the pro IRGCBA march uh on the last Friday of Ramadan every single year. Um running them in New York and in Toronto. They were my classmates. We studied together. >> Did did they get brainwashed? >> Of course. because everything they do, look, a cleric needs to talk religion. How do you know a cleric respects himself when he sticks to what he is uh meant to be doing? Religion, theology, doctrine, community service, they're all politicized, political clerics of no value. Their their understanding of religion is very shallow, very deep. I mean, it needs to be deep, but it's very shallow. You know, an atheist can take them down easily with two questions because they haven't been taught the proper foundations of theology and doctrine in Islam. It's always been biography biography. When he was born, he came out of his mother's womb and there was a scream in the in in the heavens, y have you heard that? Okay. So, that's what they're taught. Everything revolves around the character of Kame as the savior. >> Did you ever meet him? >> No, I have not. Here's the thing. Meet face to face. No, but we were together in a um so when he came to he came to and we were chosen by a cleric. I'm going to mention his name um Sheh Adman. I won't mention his first name, but he was the man responsible for the Australian students. He came to me and he said, "We're doing two things. We are going the week before comes to Tehran and I still have the entrance ID uh badge that you wear and you attend. You're not sitting in the front lines because that's where the IRGC officials sit. You're sitting towards the center of his uh sermon. Um, I saw him and again um to be honest with you, they prepare you for a spiritual uh uh event. It's not like you the bus drops you off and you enter into a mosque and then there he is. No, no, no. It's um not tunnels, but it's it's it's um alleys that you walk through that are prepared with uh banners and signs and flags and and just uh symbolism, revolutionary symbolism. And then you enter and the gods everywhere the sapaha and they're green and and sometimes blue um and then they usher you and you know your your director of the group on that day he changes because his life depends on this. He becomes a different person. He's not the guy that is nice with you like so he's very strict. He takes you in we sit here and then when you go in you see there's a an ocean of people. You're not the only one, not the only group. And before it comes, you have his henchmen, clerics, who come up on the microphone who rally up the audience. So by the time Kame is coming out, that's why people are walking behind him and kissing the place where his feet touch and you know, death to America, dead to Ingaliz, dead to Israel, dead to the hypocrites. That's that's how it happened. They build you up. And I'll tell you this, as deviant as Kame is, and as crooked as his people are, they are excellent speakers. Is useless. The only thing he's good for is he's a really good speaker. Can move a rock when he speaks. And I felt that. This guy is a real criminal. I'll tell you. Um, there's a lot of psychology involved. You see where Kame sits? That's a shipping container. He sits in a shipping container. So, two shipping containers that are stuck together and they welded together. If you want to pull it, pull this up. >> Yeah, pull this up. >> He's actually in a shipping container and it's bulletproof. >> It's shipping container. >> Yeah, not that's the that's the uh Robent of Hitler. >> Basic names. Rob, how are you getting this wrong? >> Shipping container. >> Okay, hang on. You see that third picture? the the third picture. The third picture. Yeah, that. So, that's a shipping container. There's a curtain behind him. Or you can just go back and say uh um change the two words to Friday sermon. Yeah. Okay. See that? The first picture, for example, you see that that's a shipping container that he's in. Uh or for example, change the the the last two words put oh sorry leave them add to them the word q m because he was in a shipping container in of course with pictures they won't show it but uh where he stands that third picture on top the one I pointed to earlier that one there for example behind him is two welded shipping containers that they put him in and they're covered you know they're not going to have DHL or anything on them. Uh they're covered up nicely and because number one it's security and no one can get to him except for a guy called Wah. You want to pull up the name Wah just next to put Wah this guy. Okay. That guy that's his number one henchman. He's the real ruler of Iran. Not the president. It's this guy to get he's the head of K's office affairs. There should be a Wikipedia about him. >> Supreme leader of >> he's a right-hand man to Iran's ali often known as general vah. >> Yeah. He goes by one name Wah in the whole country. >> Okay. So where were you going with this with who he is? >> Okay. >> Rob, can we turn on the AC a little bit now? It's a little bit hot. Wah is the guy who decides where it goes and the we need to understand the makeup of Iran as a country so we can understand how we got to how we got to Hamas because Hamas is for sale. Hamas was paid by Iran. They're Sunni but the Shia paid for them in Iran. I want to be fair to you and to the listeners. I want to take a step back. Many people say the reason why the Muslim world is successful and they mean the UAE um and Saudi Arabia, they say is because they pushed Islam to the side, not because Islam is uh good in these countries. That's what they say. And of course, that's that's not right. In Iran, we have a system where the clerics rule over not only the government but also the hospitals, the technology sector, the education sector. There is no sector in Iran in the intelligence that the clerics are not ruling in. So you cannot have a fully functioning vibrant society when you don't have experts on top. The UAE what they did was they respected religion. Religion is sacred. It cannot be placed in an intelligence department or in a hospital. So they bring experts to these fields. That is the difference my brother. That's the difference. Iran went down down down this path of destruction because it is run by mullas. It's run by clerics. It's not run by experts. Kame's family. I don't know if you've looked at this or not. Apparently, the family is worth $92 billion give or take. If you type in Kam uh um oh yeah, 95 to $200 billion on the kind of money they've made. So, so Vahid, are you saying Vahid could be the who could he be in the future when Kame is no longer here with us? >> No, is the decision maker. He will never be >> anything. >> No, because >> he wants to be behind the scenes. >> He He has to be behind the scenes. >> So, he runs Iran. In other words, >> he's the guy who runs the country. >> He runs Iran. >> He runs the country. He >> Have you met him? >> No, of course not. >> What What do you mean, of course not? >> No. I'll I'll tell you this. Can you uh put just type my name in Google? Just put Tahiti t and then No, no, no. Tohidi. Okay, you're going to do that. Okay. Wait. And then next to it, just put Hassan and then put [laughter] Rob is having a rough day today. Not Yeah, there you go. >> Okay. Just just go uh go to images. >> Oh, so you met with Humeni's grandson? >> Of course. I I I was uh you know >> that's you and him. >> You could even consider me somewhat of an adviser to these guys at >> this home. >> This is in Thran. This is in the shrine of Kumi in his private residence. Now, I want you to take a look at this picture. By the way, Patrick, I'm not being arrogant here, but I I just want you to see what exactly you're looking at so you know who uh you're doing a podcast with today. >> How long ago is this? >> This is 2016. >> Okay. Uh, zoom into the plates. >> I see chai. >> Okay. What do you see on my plate? No, no, no. Go, go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. >> Okay. Stay there. Uh, what do you see on on on that on my plate? >> I see tea, but I don't know what that other piece is. >> It's an orange. >> Okay. >> But what am I missing? I'm missing orange peels. >> Okay. >> He has the peels, >> right? >> So, he peeled it for you. Correct. >> I got what you're saying. So the relationship is he was serving you. >> More like being kind and generous. >> Respect. Yeah. In a in a good way. Kind. He Yeah. >> How was he? How was Humen's grandson? >> This guy doesn't believe in uh in anything. He's an atheist in my view. >> I I think he if he could, he would take out Kame. >> Oh, you're kidding me. >> Yeah. No, this guy >> and he still lives there. >> Look, I'm saying this. I know this this might bother him, but he in no way is a is a cleric in the same manner as Kame. >> Why do you say that? >> No, this guy's fed up. His uh grandfather made the revolution and he gets no say in governance. They give him a mosque. Here's your your grandpa's grave. Go clean and serve it. Yeah. He has no say. He's a teacher. They won't even let him in. They say in order for you to become on the expert council of Iran, you know, you need to take a test. And he tells them, I'm the grandson of Kmeni. I take a test, I need to be testing you guys, right? What's his relationship with? I mean, it has to be diplomatic or else he's a pragmatic guy. He knows. He knows. Look put his own brother. Do you want to Google this? Go go go up to Hadi. This is a K ha. No, no, no. Hadi with just the >> H A D I K H A M E. K H A M E. There you go. Shakam. >> No, no, >> no. K H A M E N E. Nei. There you go. No. Hadi. Hadi. So H A. Yeah. Okay, this is Kame's brother. He was under house arrest. Many people don't know this. >> Why was he on house arrest? >> Go down. It should it should say opposition. He's a reformist. So many got his people to attack his own brother, right? Some conservatives blamed for the attack. Right? So this is Kame lives in a world of contradictions. Do you remember the Ahmed Nad and the uh the green uprisings? Okay. So, Musvi is his cousin is Kame's cousin and he would come out and say Kami is corrupt. >> His own brother says my brother is corrupt. His uncle says my nephew is corrupt. His um sister's husband who fled to France wrote a letter to Kame. He said how to sorry he said how dare you appoint my wife's brother as the head of Friday prayers in Thran when he is 123 he accused him of being part of the LGBT community right in a letter and the guy lived in France and then yeah he he's he's dead but um the point is very u misunderstood in the west misunderstood Americans don't know who's speaking to their students When these uprisings happen in universities and puts out a tweet and says, "I congratulate the students in America and and North America and they're up." That's not just foreign interference. Americans don't know what they're looking. This is the Shia Osama bin Laden. That's exactly how you need to look at him. This is the Osama bin Laden was Sunni. He's the Shia version of Osama bin Laden. And Kmeni is the Persian Hitler. That's exactly how you need to look at them. How many is the Persian history? >> 100%. Someone who could execute 30,000 people with no trial. I mean, no comparison. You're looking at the Holocaust. Two million more. But I'm talking about the the concept and the will. Okay. You worked for the sha. What were you? A chef or a driver? Execution. This level of of of mentality and terrorism we see in the likes of Hitler. >> What caused you to leave though? What caused you to say I'm leaving? >> Australia. I did not come to the seminary because I didn't have anything else to do with my life. Many of the people who go there go there because you're given a stipent $30 a month. Uh you're given you're given a room food, right? And uh if you memorize the Quran and and important books from our corpus, what happens is you get a higher stipent. And of course with religion comes respect. That's why many people choose to go there. I did not do that. I went to study. I went to because I'm a third generation imam. I went to increase my education, my theological education. But the minute you tell me I cannot read certain books and I cannot visit certain scholars. You see I was a fundamentalist. I am a former extremist. I used to support I used to support these criminals. So the but the thing is I came from a society that allowed me to read whatever book I wanted to read and to visit whatever scholar I wanted to visit and sit with. For you to now tell me I cannot do that. I didn't come from Pakistan or Pakistan or Iraq like other students were. No I came from the west. You cannot tell me I can't read certain books. So that triggered it for me that you in a classroom that happened where they told you you can't read those books. >> Oh no no no. What would happen is I would naturally see signs of scholars in their offices daft ayatah so and so and I would go to their office and they would give me books. So I would take the books back to the dormatory and before I knew it my dormatory was broken into. I was they was they searched me when I was praying you know congre congregational prayers. They searched my room and when I came back I found everything was uh not how I left it. uh and and it bothered me and so I began to understand there's an issue here that I was not aware of and then I started to um investigate who the other clerics were, what was their problem with these clerics and I found out you know what you can still be a good Muslim and reject because there are grand ayat who are the grandsons of the prophet who reject him. So I immediately started to visit those guys and I sat with them and I read their books and I saw you know this is exactly what I came here for religion. You had me in al- Mustafa University telling me that Tel Aviv needs to be bombed right and dead to America and dead to the UK and and the queen [clears throat] is is Satan right and America is the big Satan and Israel is the small Satan. I understand your hatred towards them, but that's not what I came here for. I came to study theology. I I [clears throat] found it in the offices of the grand ayatas who were opposed to. That's when I said, "Okay, there's more here." So, I picked up the phone to my father. I said to him, he didn't tell me. He said, "Well, I wanted you to understand on your own." >> He knew. >> My father was in Iran. We moved from Iran to Australia. >> How heavy how higher up was your father? You're fourth generation. So >> I'm I'm third generation. >> Third generation. >> Okay. How higher up was your father? >> My father is a a community uh uh cleric. >> Okay. >> Community. I'm not involved in in my world at all. Um but he didn't want to get involved in this type of conversation. But I understood and when I understood, I said, you know what? I'm not getting involved with these guys anymore. And of course once they realize that you are no longer subscribed to their ideology, the first thing that happens is that they cancel your visa. Right? Though I was born in Iran, I was there as an Australian citizen. So they cancel your visa. Um and then you have to figure it out on your own. But my visa still had time. I just did not submit to renew it. I I had like eight nine months left. So what I did was I stayed in Iran and I stayed in another school that was offered uh a dormatory that I was offered by these other good clerics. They're all fundamentalist but they were less corrupt. So their corruption would be financial wasting money on unnecessary initiatives. It wouldn't be murder and blood and and trying to take down the West. None of that. >> What were they teaching you there? Like if you were to say the core core teaching who is the enemy who did you see them sell hate to the most? Who were you supposed to hate and love you know the most? >> Okay so you love whoever he loves and you hate whoever he hates. It's as simple as that. If that is fixed love changes doesn't matter. Point is you need to be loving who the state loves. >> So who did Kam hate? Of course, America. Of course, Israel, of course, the UK, of course, the West in general. I mean, who is at the top? Who is at the top of the hate for >> America? >> Number one. >> Number one, the great Satan >> ahead of Israel, >> of course. >> Okay. So, the Omrib That was a regular thing. >> That happens every single day. You see it once a week after the Friday sermons, but it happens every single day in every single mosque that is operated by the regime. Dead to America. And I'll tell you this, I saw you ask me a question um when you played my warning in 2009 after uh the attack in Australia. You do you remember what that question was >> today? >> No. when I thanked you for um playing my clip from 2019. >> When we set out to create a shoe that blends comfort, [music] function, and luxury, we had the choice to make it fast. We had the choice to make it cheap. We chose neither. Instead, we chose Tuscan Italy. We chose [music] true Italian craftsmanship. Each pair touched by 50 skilled hands. We chose patience, spending [music] two years perfecting every detail. And we chose the finest quality at every step. Introducing the future looks [music] bright collection. Not rushed, not disposable, not ordinary, rather intentional, luxurious, timeless. >> What What was the question? >> Question was, if you're criticizing these guys, then why are you still Muslim? Do you remember that question? He said, "Well, one could ask him why he's still a Muslim." And I I really think we cannot uh not answer that question. It's very important because it ties into the tens of millions of Iranians who don't say debt to America, who don't attend these mosques, who don't attend these rallies. What you're seeing is a few million, fine, 20 million, 30 million. How many millions love Kam 30? Fine. No problem. I'll be generous in my numbers here. But at least half the population is either not practicing or they hate him. Why is that the case? Why are they still Muslim? It's >> not enough though. >> Yeah, but why are they still Muslim? >> I don't know if they're Muslim. Like like let let me give you an idea. I think you said something very powerful today. You said uh so so to an average Christian, [clears throat] they think every Muslims read every the Quran cover to cover. Okay. So, think about it. To the average Christian, what do they think? Oh, you're a Muslim. You've read the Quran. You've studied the Quran. You know everything in the Quran. And you said, "What?" You said, "Do you think I Omar knows what what's in the Quran?" >> She doesn't. >> She's a Chachibi Quran person, right? Is who she is. Okay. >> So, what do you call those? >> I think there's a big percentage of Muslims that are Muslim because it's who their father was. It's who their mother was. It's traditionally Muslim. It's not Muslim because they studied all the religions and they chose Muslim. It's because they're traditionally there. Now for you third generation, you listen, that's a tradition. I had a guy here who was the fourth uh uh generation of Teamster Union from the union that Jimmy Hafa came from. But he's a fourth generation. Guess what his son is probably going to do? Union. Why? That tradition. However, you're talking different Muslims. you know what about these guys and what about those guys and what about these guys and what about these guys they all follow the same book. So if you're seeing what's going on, if it's a hundred million around the world that are extremist and the middle ones that are good, they're just living their lives, I don't know if they're practicing. I don't know if I would say 50% I don't know if I would even say 70% of Muslims practice Muslim their religion. I would say they're just kind of living their lives and they're not the fanatical. That's not who I'm worried about. That's not who the westerns or the conservative or certain ideologies worried about. It's the 100 million that fully are the extremist that see the west as the enemy. >> Agreed. More than 100 million more. But there that is a Could we uh go on Google and uh just uh Google for me in the shade of the Quran. There we go. Now that is the Quran of the extremists. This is my Quran. This is mine. That is their Quran. >> What's the difference? >> Exactly. Is a highly influential commentary of Quran. By who? By say, one of the founders of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood have their own Quran. Patrick. They don't follow this Quran. And the reason I didn't bring it with me is because it is 30 volumes. >> Is that English? >> That is English. >> May I? You will definitely of course here it's English I bought in English so you can touch the text because only Muslims can touch the Arabic text. So I have to clarify this because there are Muslim viewers who will think that Tahiti gave Patrick a Arabic Quran. So it's in English. >> Continue. I'm listening. >> Okay. This here is the first time in history >> that a Quran is interpreted by a man who says I will interpret it based on my own views >> based on my own understanding. Because how does Quranic interpretation happen? >> I need you with me. >> Tell me how does it happen? >> It happens when the verses are measured against other verses or against other teachings of the prophet. >> Okay? or through scholarly consensus or either through which is analogy or through rational um approaches. >> When it comes to the Quran of the Muslim Brotherhood, >> it is the first time in history that a guy says, "I will interpret it the way I want it interpreted and I do not care what the Quran says in other places and I do not care what it says, what what the prophet says. This is not unacceptable. >> Mhm. >> That is the Quran of the Muslim Brotherhood. >> Okay. >> Ask me your question. >> No, but to me, you know, it's kind of like saying, you know, Joseph Smith came out and he came out with the Book of and he said Jesus after he died, he resurrected and went to Vermont and he found six tablets. And that's how the the the Mormonism and the Latter-day Saints started. Then they went from Vermont to I'm going to miss some of this stuff from Vermont to Chicago. Everywhere they went they get kicked out and his father had some issues and eventually they end up in uh you know I I think gets killed. He gets killed in one of these places and then they end up in uh uh Utah and that's where they build their thing. So they have the Bible and they have the Book of Moroni, right? The Book of Mormon. >> Translation is translation. Okay. But if you go to the OG of Prophet Muhammad, let's go to that. To you, who was Prophet Muhammad? Forget the translation. The the face of Muslim is Prophet Muhammad. Is that fair? >> The face of Islam. >> Face of Islam is Prophet Muhammad. >> Correct. >> Who is Prophet Muhammad to you? You seem like a very reasonable guy. >> Correct. >> Who is he to you? >> The messenger of God. >> He's the messenger of God. >> Correct. >> Okay. Um tell me you know uh to you what you admire about him the most. >> Everything. >> Please unpack that. >> Okay. The Muhammad that the west has been introduced to is not our Muhammad. The Muhammad of the Quran. Very important. And please, Patrick, uh, ask me any question and if you feel I haven't answered you, please go back and make sure that you, uh, you're satisfied with my answer. Um, I'm not here to, uh, evade any anything. So, please, >> just so you know, you don't give me that vibe at all, so you don't even have to explain yourself. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Thank you. Um, Arabia needed monotheism. This was a society that was worshiping dates and stones and burying their daughters alive, worshiping idols. The tradition of Abraham was corrupted in Arabia. >> We call this the time of ignorance, is Jah. God sent a man, we believe in the same way he sent Moses and Jesus. His name is Muhammad. Mhm. >> He sent him to Arabia not to start a new religion but to continue the religion of previous prophets. Moses being you know the the final Jewish prophet and uh Jesus being the uh the messenger for the Christians. Now you may believe him to be the son of God. >> I see him as a prophet of God. But what we agree upon is that he was a messenger of God. What he came with came from God. Came from the you call him the father. I call him Allah. The prophet Muhammad you may read the Quran that he came down with. Um and we say came he came with but it was revealed to him. Uh so it did not come down as a tablet. It came down as verse by verse or certain verses together. His focus in Arabia was monotheism. Who is God? Who is our creator and our responsibility towards him? That's it. That is the main fundamental pillar of the message of the prophet. Do not worship idols. Do not worship idols that you create with your own hands and when you get hungry you eat them out of dates and so on. Do not have um sexual relations with your parents. Do not kill your parents. Do not murder the innocent, for example. Uh, respect the basic Noahide laws. This is exactly what our prophet advocated for. Then there is a development of a religion. That is where it gets more interesting because it all goes back to those people following the prophet Muhammad. The prophet Muhammad was born in 570. He passed away in 632. He was a prophet for 23 years. In 23 years, all of his battles were defensive. And you can look this up as I'm speaking. They were all defensive. And we can speak about treatment of Christians, of Jews, of any group. Ask me any question. I'll tell you this. But before we do so, I want to just point to a book that I think is valuable just for context. uh by John Tolan uh the faces of Muhammad right so this book shows you that the west itself in this book the author Mr. Tolan speaks about the faces of Muhammad in the west. Muhammad during the medieval era. How did the western world view him? Muhammad during the reformation era. Muhammad during the enlightenment era. So to when you ask me about my prophet, this question is coming from the developments and the events happening in our time. Muhammad was never looked at in a single way by the west. He was looked at as Muhammad the businessman, Muhammad the poet, Muhammad the warrior, Muhammad the father, the father of orphans, Muhammad the statesman. Right? So when I when I speak about the prophet Muhammad, I'll tell you this. He was a man sent by God to Arabia to guide them to towards monotheism and ethics. That's it. That is who he was and that's what his mission was. And that is exactly what the Quran um focuses on. But yes, it's a book that speaks to a developing community. There's going to be conflict. There's going to be war and there's going to be peace. There's going to be a lot of difficult conversations to be had. And we should not shy away from them. >> What's the what's the most difficult part of the Quran that you had to accept? >> No, I accept it all with no difficulty. >> None of it. >> No. Because there's no question you can ask me that I do not have a rational answer for. The most basic one I'll go to that you've probably been asked a million times that you know of. So Aisha, how do you process that? >> Aisha was not married uh to the prophet at a young age. She was an adult. >> And I've heard you say this before. >> She was an adult. >> Do you know how many people who are Islam Muslim scholars who do the complete opposite who don't even debate it? But you debate it. >> They're preachers. They're not imams. They are preachers. The son of an imam is not an imam. Just because your dad has an has a mosque and leads prayers and gives you the microphone to speak, it does not make you a theologian. >> If the if the average person goes and checks to By the way, let let's do this. Let me ask a question in a different way. >> Right? >> If he did marry Aisha at 6, >> if he did consummate at night, would you still be a Muslim? >> The thing is he would never do that. >> No, but here's a different question. I'm asking, >> right? He would never do that. >> I'm not asking that question. If your prophet, if this is an if, it's a key word. If he did marry a six-year-old, if he did consummate, which means, you know, have sex with somebody at night that some people would, you know, define that as rape. They wouldn't even cons consider that as sex. If he did, would you still be a Musl would you still see yourself as a Muslim yourself? >> Patrick, I'm not running away from the question. I swear on my life and on my mother's life. I'm telling you when you say prophet to me it means an infallible being that does not make a mistake or make error. It it doesn't make sense. Then let me ask a question in a different way. Okay. Um you're you're born into a family that is non religious at all. You have to find your own way. It's not third generation imam. They're not Muslim, but it's not atheist. Maybe it's agnostic. You go pick and choose and find your own. Not not Christian, not Presbyterian, not Jehovah, not nothing. Right. >> I would eventually end up as Muslim. And as >> you say that, you say that you say that now. And you know, uh uh uh I understand saying that, you know, I would also say I would end up being a Christian myself and I would say that, but neither one of us know that for a fact. We can play that and say yes, but I get what I get the positioning of you having faith in what you're saying. If we put something on a board, facts of each religion out there, let's name one of them the religion of whatever. But the founder of that religion who was admired by a couple billion people, if it was factually proven that he married someone at six and they had sex at nine, would you ever consider that religion? If I didn't say Muslim, I said if it was proven that the founder had done that, would you ever accept that religion? >> No. Of course not. >> You wouldn't? No. >> Okay. Beautiful. >> But but again, um the prophet for us when you say Muhammad, you know what? process an infallible human being that does not make mistakes at all or any error. >> So it's impossible that he would make such a decision and plus the issue of uh Aisha uh you have to weigh it against the society and the dates around her. She was born after her sister Asma and she died before Asma and I have it in in a study which I can definitely send you. She was either 18 from 18 to 21 years old. There is no Muslim consensus that Aisha was 3 or 6 or 9 or 15. There are there are more popular opinions because there is a state behind the publications promoting them. Yes, that I accept. But again, with all due respect, if you put a book in front of me, a history book, and you tell me this book was authored by a very respected man, you know what I'll tell you? I'll tell you, with all due respect, Brother Patrick, I know you you gave me a book. You put you put a book in front of me, but God gave me a brain and I can do mathematics and I can understand exactly when she was born, where she was. It's not hard to work it out. >> Well, 18 to 21. >> Okay. Okay, final verdict >> according to your opinion is 18 to 21, right? According to your opinion, >> but I have Islamic sources for it. >> But those are also sources, >> but they are >> so the two sources are debating each other. >> Again, a source is is measured and is judged based on the author and based on the the credibility of the source. >> So when you're telling me that she was uh it's narrated that she's 609, I understand where that comes from. And I can also tell you that book is banned in certain countries. So that's the same book for and I don't want to mention um I don't want to offend uh x% of Muslims by saying this. But I'll tell you this, if a book is rejected because it was relied upon by ISIS, it should also be rejected. If it tells you that Aisha was six and that my prophet was a rapist, >> you reject the book in its totality. Do do you do you know uh so what is the worst rumor ever made about you? >> Worst rumor about me? >> What is the worst rumor ever made about you? Worst rumor ever made about you? >> Um >> that that it's almost like it's insane. >> No, but the u you know I would weigh worst by the value of the source of the rumor. So if there's someone important >> Yeah. But but this is this is you have to realize when when when people make rumors about um Clinton and they'll say he went to Epstein Island >> and you know he raped somebody, he did this, he did that. Okay. And then there is a moment where he's holding up a check of $850,000. Another woman that got $850,000 that they settled >> and these Epstein pictures are coming up. Okay. How come these rumors are not there of Jimmy Carter? How come these rumors are not there? For Jimmy Carter, the rumors were very different with George Boy Senior. The rumors were director of CIA, John F. Kennedy, where was he the day John F. Kennedy got assassinated. Okay. The rumors of uh everybody is different. Can you imagine you are a the the prophet of a denomination of a religion where the main source Muslims have to overcome the objection is the fact that your prophet married a six-year-old and consummated at 9 years old. That's not one person spread. This isn't President Trump saying Obama was born in Kenya and you know here go show your birth certificate and the day the White House released the birth certificate my graphic designer said this is a BS birth certificate and Obama this is a fake birth certificate we're looking at right this is not that this is something that's been been around for a long time so it's not like it's a one person that's against Muslims that is saying the founder was six you know married a six-year-old 9-year-old wrote that's everywhere. Now let me ask you the second one. The second one is uh uh what is your impression of what happens if I am a Muslim and I die and I go to heaven. Are there 72 virgins waiting for me? Where are you at with that? >> Two questions, Patrick, that need unpacking. >> Oh, do it. Go for it. >> Okay. Firstly, with regards to rumors, um I gather you're a uh proud Christian. >> I am. >> Okay. What's the rumor about Mary? peace be upon her. >> Okay. >> The mother of Jesus. >> Yeah. >> What do our Jewish brothers in Abrahamic faith think of Mary? >> Not the same. >> Okay. And it's not nice either. >> It's not nice either. No. >> Does it bring you value that u Christianity is uh part of an Abrahamic lineage from Abraham? Well, Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, this tradition all the way down to Jesus that the Bible refers to. Of course, you have something to stand on theologically. >> Okay, >> I understand the whole um concept or faith that uh Jesus Christ is the savior and the son of God. I understand and that being above everything I just mentioned. I I understand that. But the rumor about Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, is a very serious one. And it still stands according to the Abrahamic faith of Judaism, which both your prophets and my prophets come from. Your prophet was Jesus Christ was Jewish at the end of the day. For us, he's a prophet of the Israelites. >> Okay? And all of God's prophets for us were Israelites. We don't have female prophets, by the way, obviously. But the prophet Muhammad is the only Arab non-Israelite prophet. Do you know that that rumor still stands in the tradition of every single Jew? And that rumor stands in the seminaries. You know how that rumor was neutralized at least in the Abrahamic household of ours? >> This book, the Quran did the greatest service to Christianity. The Quran that I believe in, this is the same Quran. When you say people follow a book, this is the same book that if I were to open the very heart of this book. Now, give or take a few pages uh here and there because of course you're dealing with u a publication that puts a license and a contents page, right? This we call it Quran, the heart of the Quran here. So the viewers can see it. The first chapter in the heart of the Quran is surah Mariam the chapter of Mary and it begins by narrating the miracle of the birth of Jesus Christ. Islam is the only religion that told our Jewish brothers and sisters that Mary gave birth to Jesus without a husband. This is the same book, by the way. You point to a religion for me that did disservice to Christianity and to Jesus Christ and to Mary other than Islam. >> You didn't answer the question. >> No, but I'm getting there. You're not answering. So, I So, you have to realize I was an atheist for 25 years of my life. >> Right. And what you just said right there was one of the reasons why I had a hard time being a Christian because for me it was that was an era of naive. How hard is it for somebody to convince the people that I was a virgin and I'm [clears throat] pregnant and I I haven't had sex with anybody. How did I get pregnant? for somebody to believe that who's a logical person, who's a math guy, which is me. I'm not a Christian 25 years. I'm an atheist. You couldn't get me to go into a church. I thought it was for the people of the weak. >> So, a lot of these things you're saying, logically, I was the guy that you were talking about. And I'm not even a Jew. I was just an atheist. I'm like, "No, this the life I lived living in Iran, seeing all the bombings, seeing his Hezbollah, see seeing what Saddam Hussein was doing, seeing what Kmeni was doing, seeing what happened to a once great nation where anybody from around the world would come to vacate an Iran vacation for Iran. No. So, I came from that, but you haven't answered the question yet. >> Please ask. The question is about the prophet, you know, um the the the criticism of him when you read the stories about his wives, when you read the stories about Aisha, specific to Aisha, I ask you two things. It was Aisha and it was the 20 the 72 virgins when I die. >> Yes. Okay. So 72 virgins is real. That's in in Islam. It's in the it's in the the the the concept of it. >> That's a little weird. The concept of it is in the Quran. Yeah. >> Um but uh again uh allow me to unpack. >> So when you read these things in the Quran, please Patrick, please uh let's not forget the uh type of community these statements were being issued to. We're not talking about Oxford graduates or Harvard graduates. This was a primitive society >> in need of guidance. And therefore in their mentality there were certain things they considered to be worthwhile and rewards. And unfortunately one of them again is women. Right? So the word 70 in Islam and in Arabic tradition in Arabic literature in general means a lot. It does not mean exactly 72. You know, you'll have preachers, again, I'm speaking about preachers, uh, preachers who say, uh, every one of these virgins comes with a hundred maids, so we're not going to stop counting. And every maid has a has a secondary mate. So, what is this? You know, uh, at the end of the day, there is a a solid Abrahamic tradition that is focused on purity and piety. And then you have the development of a religion and there are conversations between the um the the religious hierarchy and the uh adherence of that religion. We have traditions for example where our prophet was sitting down and uh people would come and ask him the same question and he would answer in a different way. He wouldn't uh misguide people but he would give the same answer in a different way and the companions would say why would you answer them differently. He says because the first one was a farmer. If I give him examples using trees and and fruits he would understand. And the second guy was a businessman. If I speak to him in real estate he'll understand better. It's more about being relatable. So number one, the idea of 72 virgins is not a pillar in Islam. Meaning that if you don't believe in it, you cannot be a full Muslim. No, it is there in the Quran part of a conversation between the religion and the develop and and and the developing society with a reminder that you're talking about a society. Patrick, can I just uh ask my brother here, can you just uh go to the uh go to Google, Patrick, firstly I should have said this first. I congratulate you on on your clarity. Really? I haven't done podcasts in America for seven years, maybe eight years. >> Yes. I don't I get invites >> seven eight years. >> I can open my phone and show you the type of people invited, right? >> But uh if I don't listen to a podcast myself >> and I don't respect the interviewer, I don't when I listen to you on other uh shows, I'll get to you now. when I listen to you interviewing other people, you know, when you're listening to someone and and in your mind you have something to say about it, you're that guy. You always say exactly what I'm thinking. Uh and I congratulate your clarity on on many of these issues, but please, this is good. I want to continue. Uh go there and and put uh um Quranic verse uh enter the home from its door. Okay, click click on that that go down the there's a first link, right? Bakar 189. Wait. Okay, there we go. Chapter 2 verse 189. You want to highlight that please? The second sentence. Okay. Do you see that, Patrick? >> Uh, I'm going to go to the end of that verse there. Righteousness is not in entering your your houses from the back doors. Rather, righteousness is to be mindful of Allah. So, enter your homes through their proper doors. Patrick, tell me why is it that Archangel Gabriel, this is again I'm speaking about the Islamic tradition. Archangel Gabriel who carried each and every one of these verses down onto the prophet Muhammad. And in the Quran, we are told when revelation comes down the prophet his temperature goes up, right? It's something heavy that's being bestowed upon him. He's receiving a message from God. He begins to sweat. He's in fear. Now, the prophet has to go through that entire process for then a verse to tell him, "Please tell your guys and tell the believers. He's speaking to the Muslims, the new the first Muslim community in Mecca, enter your home from the front door." What were you doing? Like, what were you doing? Do you see that's the level of intellect we need to be mindful of? These are people who were not accustomed to anything logical that you and I have. You know, you know, when you meet someone basic common sense and basic logic, that does not exist. And you can't expect it from someone who buries his daughter alive. You can't. Someone who thinks burying daughters alive is a shame. That's the level of mentality our prophet had to deal with. Patrick Jesus Christ came to a civilization. He came to a civilization where they were Romans and the Jewish civilization alone is huge. That's why he didn't have to go through what our prophet went through. Our prophet was dealing with people who don't get it. The struggle was real. I'm telling you, you're not dealing with a single situation. This is the type of people. He has to tell them when you go home, please use the front door. like revelation needs to take place because they were digging holes from the back of their homes and entering from the back after completing pilgrimage. But why would you have a front door if you don't use it? >> You're saying the the the the following of Prophet Muhammad during the time that he was and where he was there wasn't a level of advancement. So it was a higher level of naive with the people versus Jesus came to a place where there was already an established society. Is that what you're saying? >> Beautifully said. >> Okay. So then then help me correlate those two together because one would say that's even a bigger opportunity to manipulate and deceive and persuade a more naive audience than you would a more educated audience which would be tougher to do so. >> No, but they had their own traditions and they had they had their own gods. As I said, they worshiped their own idols. They had everything in place. There was a functioning tribal society. Who were they who were they idolizing before uh Prophet Muhammad? Uh >> the idols. Do you want to pull that up? Just put the idol of lat. >> Yeah. No. No. L with with a T. Yep. And u Z A [clears throat] U Z A >> U double Z. >> No, no. U Z A >> Yeah. >> There you go. Also the three chief goddess of Arabian religion, pre-Islamic. And she was worshiped by the pre-Islamic Arabs and the Alat and Manat the stone cube of Nakla near Mecca was held sacred as part of her call. She mentioned in Quran 53:19 as being one of the goddess whom people worship. So he comes in he comes in a time where the level of nit is high but prior to that they had some traditions just like Abraham. Abraham had to deal with the Nimrod and the idol worshiing. But uh keep that go back to that Wikipedia page please. Um, I want you to click on right there where your mouse is. You see preIlamic Qurayshesh. Click on that. Okay? That is the chief Arabian tribe that ruled Mecca. It's called Quraysh. And our prophet was from Quraysh. So, he came not only to a society, he was rebelling against his own people. They were the establishment. You see that? So many people think that our prophet came against Jews and Christians. That's tribal alliances. We'll get to later on. But the establishment itself was the prophet's family. The so-called conquest of Mecca where the prophet came in and took Mecca, he was simply coming back home. So by law, if the chiefs of by tribal law, by international law, if the owners of the land submit to you and by tribal law and Islamically, all laws submit that the prophet entering Mecca without a single drop of blood being shed, right? He took over Mecca. So he came back home. He's from Quraysh. He came to guide and Quraysh opposed him and tried to murder him. So upon return, what he did was without spilling a single drop of blood, he entered Mecca, which is today the holiest site for Muslims. >> And there are reasons why Mecca is is the holiest site for Muslims. It's it's not just the location where God um placed his home. I don't know if if we're aware of that. Uh can you just click on Mecca, the first line right there? Beautiful. Okay. Click on that black cube there, the picture. So we Muslims believe that Adam, our father Adam, the father of humanity because again Muslims believe there were humans before Adam. So he was a prophet, prophet to who? There must have been a nation that he came to guide. Uh the point is the pro prophet Adam. So we refer to him as prophet Adam. Uh came to Arabia and and created the base for this Kaa for the house of God. And then Abraham came and built it. And ever since then it has undergone renovations. So floods would take place. For example, the flood of Noah we believe. And then there's this uh theological question as to why the flood of Noah would even disrupt the structure of the Cabba. And uh that's because it was full of idols at the time. It wasn't uh the the as sacred as it is after it was be it was purified by uh the prophet. So this was full of idols. Inside it were idols. Where that door is, above it and around it, we're full of idols. So I think we came down a different path. But going back, I still want you to know the prophet came to an established community that had amazing poets, had mathematicians. But when we say ignorant, they were ignorant of things to do with religion, with God, and they were firm in their belief of idols. and they had some terrible terrible traditions such as burying their women alive. And to be honest, when you said what's the the the issue that you uh struggle with a lot in Islam, I thought you were going to ask me about the wife beating verse. I really thought so. But then you took it another path. But um we we can discuss that too. But when it comes to the community, please keep in mind the community was not a highly developed community at the time. >> Okay? So what what happens if by the way just so you know for me um you know sometime people see and they're wondering what Patrick's an Islamophobic is this is that my chef that's been with my family for 3 years who's with us in our house is a Muslim chef from Turkey and he still is a Muslim he's not converted to Christianity he's a Muslim himself he cooks for us uh I had an assistant guy named Hutan who was a Muslim who was with me for one year one of the nicest guys I met in my But then I got hundreds of stories on the other side as well of what happened uh uh that I've personally witnessed. So I want you to know I've met many many peaceful people like you who are Muslim who are incredible human beings to have dinner with, have conversations with and uh uh major respect to those guys. This is not a blanket statement on everybody. A part of my challenge is trying to see if the two can coexist because if you can't coexist, then don't force it to coexist. Let them individually build their own societies and see what can happen. Let me go to my next question here with you. And I know how you are, so you're probably going to want to comment on that as well. And you can go forward. I'm I'm really interested in hearing both your answers on uh uh on both topics. But let's just say you leave today. Okay, we finish the podcast. I tell you, I imam respectfully I don't think you're 100% there. I think you need to consider, you know, becoming a Christian. And you say 100%, no way. You know, even if I came from that agnostic family, I would still end up being where I'm at right now. You said that earlier about 30 minutes ago. But say something happens. You have a miracle that happens. Something happens. You go to sleep tonight. You have a, you know, dream. You, it's a dream. You're you're actually sitting down having a conversation with Jesus. And anything that you're seeing, all of a sudden, next day, you know what? I'm going to become a Christian. If that were to happen, what happens to you? Dreams are not uh evidence or proof for us nor for the logical. >> Forget about the dream. You read the Bible. You had a moment. You pray >> which I have. >> And you pray and you decide you want to become a Christian. Your choice. What happens to you? >> I already believe in Jesus Christ as a prophet of God. >> No, but you leave. You denounce as being a Muslim and you become a Christian. >> Okay. Let me answer you >> please. But please allow me to answer you. >> No problem. I haven't interrupted you, so you go ahead. >> No, and believe me, it's it's a real pleasure sitting with you, Patrick. Um, not only are you respectful, you come from a region where you understand exactly what I'm saying. And I love the fact that the the viewers will know that if I am in any way not being direct, you would have the knowledge to say, "Hang on." Right? So, I I appreciate that. These questions don't apply to me, Patrick. This question doesn't apply to me. And the question that you asked when you played my u uh when I was warning the West, you said, "Well, someone can say why is he still a Muslim?" That doesn't apply to me either. >> Why? Because that would be asking me to let go of what is mine. I didn't say leave a religion. that I adhere to or believe in. I'm not speaking about belief here. This is not an issue of faith. >> I will not let go of what is mine. I repeat for you. It is mine. What does that mean? It means I am a Muslim who is Arab who comes from the tribe of Tai being one of the most prominent the prominent tribes in Arabia. >> And God sent a prophet. You know how in Judaism God sends uh prophets from the Israelites for the Israelites, right? So God sent a prophet to us who spoke our language and God sent down his book in my language. The Quran says inside that we created it or we made it an Arabic Quran in order for you to understand. Meaning that its original language was not Arabic. It was made Arabic for us. If God in Islam wants to speak to the Somali community, he speaks to them in Arabic. They can translate it all they like. But this is the language of Islam, Arabic. God doesn't have a language. But God spoke to us in Arabic, in my language, in my mother tongue. And he sent a prophet to us. He didn't put us in a different continent. And then a prophet came to us from a different continent like Islam moved and people converted after receiving its message in Malaysia and Indonesia and and in the Indian subcontinent. This is mine. My ancestors are the companions of the prophet gave two eyes for the prophet in defending him. I am not a convert that came walked into this religion 50 or 20 years ago. My DNA is as old as this religion. When the prophet first came to Arabia, we believed in him and we stood by him and we did everything he said. This religion is where it is today because of us and people like me. The Arab Muslims, the children of the companions of the prophet, the children of the family of the prophet, those who intermarried with the prophet, those who took his message and defended him and spread his message for him. That's us. That is why Islam is run out of Mecca. That is why it's run out of Saudi Arabia and out of the UAE. Because we are the first generation Muslims who the prophet would receive message from God and hand it over to our people, my forefathers to be suggesting that I leave. It's mine. Why would I let go of it? Kame needs to leave the religion, not me. Kumini needs to leave the religion. Han Omar needs to leave the religion. The Muslim Brotherhood needs to leave my religion. It belongs to me. Patrick, if you have 10 homes, as an example, and someone decides to squat in your home, and then society tells you, well, you have many homes. One of them is called Bahrain, one is called Oman, one is called naming Muslim countries. Mhm. >> Why don't you leave? You're going to say what? I understand, but it's mine. That's how I feel, Patrick, when I see these extremist Islamists. It's not my opinion versus theirs or theirs versus mine. It is them who have crossed the line into my faith and have hijacked it and with money and influence have come here first and have become the face of my religion. That's how I feel. So please, it's not us versus them. It's them thieves who need to leave. He needs to swap his turban for a crown representing my God and my prophet with his turban. That turban curses him daily. If he wears it saying it's a symbol of religion and piety, that turban curses daily. And my turban is on it, then I am wearing it. That's the difference. I'm a theologian, right? I'm a cleric. I'm not a politician. I speak to you in this manner. So when I speak about my religion, I am speaking about something that is mine, not something that I subscribe to or heard about or I was born with. No, it's it belongs to us. I was born with it. I will carry it till the day I die. That's the difference. Patrick, >> I wish you knew um >> I wish you knew how much I respect people who have the ability to be reasonable and have reasonable conversation and to have conviction. We don't have to agree on things. I have tremendous respect for your >> likewise >> ability to be reasonable and have the conviction that you have and the pride of where you are and saying it's not me that needs to leave, it's they need to leave. But that still doesn't answer my question. Okay, that was a beautiful seven minutes you went on. I'm asking. >> Sorry, I didn't. >> No, no, I love it. And I would have let you go 30 more minutes. I I I don't want you to take it as if time is uh limited. Although we are coming to the end, I'd like to go a few more minutes with you. >> Um is if you were to leave and let's change the question. You have a very persuasive way of delivering your message. You have a following. You have tens, if not hundreds of millions of online views. You have millions of followers. People follow you and what you have to say. Say you influence somebody. You'll never meet this person, but he follows your teaching the way you suggest what books, what sect, what scripture to go through, and the way you deliver the message. That person's been a follower of you and the way you teach the religion of Islam, the way you go through it last 10 years and that person chooses to leave. What happens to them? That person says, "I no longer want to be a Muslim. I'm >> like apostasy." >> Yes. >> They're free to leave >> according to who? >> According to Islam, there is no law, >> okay, >> that is agreed upon that says they need to be killed. >> Okay. So then then what is uh how do you um and and I'm trying to see if you've ever done anything cuz I don't know if you have or haven't. How uh uh how do you view some of these social media influencers that are out there debating uh the the religion of Islam? How do you view some of these guys get a lot of views? >> Yeah, you said it. Influencers. They're not not scholars. >> So give me some names like who would you see and say this is a valid person that they you've called a lot of people out. There isn't anybody bigger to call out than today. You've called out >> is not big. >> You've called out vah. Okay. You've called ameni. You've called out you you've called out a lot of people. >> They are midgets in the region. >> They may be midgets in their region, but there are giants with the amount of money and influence that they have and control that they have. So you can you can say that but they have control. And guess what? As amazing as the sha of Iran was, he was able to only control that beautiful place for 37 years. These guys have been able to control it for 46 years. 46 years >> because of the West, because of America. >> That's a different conversation. We can get to get to that as well. But I want I want to I want to get to the question. When you see some of these influencers, who would you say reasonable? Just a, you know, social media guy, not a real guy, this guy's a real guy. Who would you say? And have you debated any of these guys? >> I'm not a debater. I Sometimes things happen um and you find yourself in front of someone talking. Um I'm not a debater, but um you have to realize the young the youth is consuming their content around the world and it's just going to get bigger. And that's depicting what you believe in, >> right? Um, if there is one man that I would direct people to listen to or read his words and read about him, it would be Sheh Zed, the founder of the UAE. It would be that man, the father of the current president Zed Sultan al pull him up. That man, that man took the UAE from a regular Arab state that could go anywhere anywhere um other states went and he turned it into a beacon of hope >> and never once did he violate Islam or his principles or his morals. This is what a Muslim leader looks like. Why is it Patrick that when the leader of ISIS for example speaks people say look leader Muslim leader why is it when Kami speaks he's a Muslim leader but when this man speaks no one says Muslim leader no he is a Muslim leader this is a legend who passed away and may God have mercy on his soul this man is the reason why we have the Abrahamic family house today he's the reason why Christians have the biggest parish in the UAE. He's the reason why there's coexistence. You know, he's the reason why the Pope gets up from the Vatican and visits Abu Dhabi to sign the Abu Dhabi document on human fraternity. He's the reason behind it. There's an archive of books and text and speeches of this man that if every Arab state had a ruler like him, it would be heaven on earth. I say that. And I chose this man because he has passed away and no one can accuse me of uh trying to to uh get closer to a current ruler. He has passed away and he left behind a legacy that is Islamic that makes Islam look exactly how our prophet wanted it to be. >> When did he pass away? He passed away. I I Yeah. of 2004. >> Yeah. >> So, >> you know that amazing mosque, Grand Shos in Abu Dhabi >> that world leaders go to? He's buried just outside the courtyard. It's it's a fascinating place to visit and see just uh I mean he didn't get he started the mosque, the construction of the mosque, but he didn't get the opportunity to pray. Yeah. It's it's the Grand Mosque of Abu Yeah, that one there. She Zad Grand Mosque. If you want to click on that in bold, that is the mosque. These that one there. It's a fascinating place. You know >> that's that's where >> that's Abu Dhabi. >> That's Dubai. >> Yeah. This is what Islam looks like. No extremist preachers. >> I've been there. >> Yeah. No terror cells. No Muslim Brotherhood nonsense. >> Yeah. >> Right. And um Patrick, I know uh we're limited on time, but I can't end without showing this to you. I'm not selling anything. This is important. This is the cancer that has infiltrated America. This is from our organization, Trans Research and Advisory. The CEO sends you his regards. This here is for you. This is about the international organization of the Muslim Brotherhood. It shows you how they started 98 years ago in Egypt and infiltrated society. This here is their organizational structure. Um, tell me how we're doing with time. And this, by the way, is their path to a caliphate globally. This is what the UAE is putting forward to warn. And by the way, this is a few volumes out of I think 30 volumes. The project is it's like 15 volumes out and and translated into 16 languages. This is their path to a caliphate, the Muslim Brotherhood cancer. And they need to be called out. You know, we can speak about Islam all day. We can speak theology. We can speak about conversions. No problem. But when I walk out of the studio, this is the cancer that we have to face. >> Which one should I read first? >> The one you're holding. >> This guy. Okay. >> Yes. >> Just so you know what what book my son is reading right now. My son is reading the Quran right now. Um, I have my oldest son read Communist Manifesto at the Shrug, the Bible, the Quran. He's going to read about all these guys to learn for himself and get questions. I can tell you for me, I'm going to go through this book and read them myself. But, um, you know, I can talk to you for six more hours. You know, I don't have 50 more questions for you, but we can't do an 8 hour podcast. Um, go for it. >> Well, I didn't give you this in the start, but I came here with something for you >> because uh if if I hand this over to you in the in the beginning, then it could be bribery. You might be nice to me throughout the whole uh conversation. That's fair. >> So, at at the end, this my brother is 100 real. >> Oh, you got to be kidding. >> From the time of the shing rare, uncirculated. >> I've had it with me for nearly 15 years. And I said, you know, this needs to go to brother Patrick. >> You're amazing. >> Because I feel you would appreciate it. >> Are you kidding me? Like, you mind if I show it to him to see what it is? >> Yeah. >> This is This is the kind of stuff that just uh uh means the world to me. Gifts like this. This is the kind of stuff that you'll never be able to buy from me. Never for the rest of my life will you be able to buy this from me. This goes in the safe. You're amazing. I appreciate this gift. And and I have to I have to tell you, you know, I think uh uh there are some podcasts that that uh you do where at the end um you know, I'll I'll walk away like I'm going to go have lunch right now with a guy and I'm going to say, you know who won today? I think the audience won today. I think the audience won today because the audience is kind of going to watch this and they're going to say there's some things I really like what uh you know the imam had to say. He made a very good point there and there's something they're going to I was actually ask interesting question Pat asking what he had to say here but either way we're getting smarter and and the basis that I like about this a lot of times people will say well come you know you come bring me on bring me on if you can respect I'll bring you anybody on and you've been nothing more respectful from the beginning to the end um I respect that a lot and I look forward to us having many many more conversations like this again the two of us together anytime you need to get a hold of me you can get a hold of me anytime this has been uh a pleasure sitting on here talking to you. >> Thank you very much, Patrick. I uh would like to end with uh very brief statement that uh we are all different people and we don't have to be the same. We're different. We were created differently, but we find ourselves in the same region, speaking the same language, eating the same food, uh going the same places. And I think allowing the extremists to operate with no criticism and without shedding light on their cancer that they bring to society is wrong. And with what we did today, we were able to not only highlight that but also give you an understanding into what is in my mind and also what made me who I am today. There's a lot of things that we did not discuss which we will leave for future interactions. But I want to say one thing. The truth is worth it, Patrick. The truth is is worth it. It's worth losing friends over it. It's worth being controversial over it. It's worth uh the challenge. This could have gone many different ways. Patrick could have, you know, people were telling me, "Be careful. You never know how this would go." But I'll tell you this. The truth is worth getting in front of millions of people and saying this religion is here to serve and guide. In its principle, in its origins was heading in a certain way that is about uh belief in one God and harmony and coexistence between all people and that it was hijacked by the extremists. That needs to be said and it needs to be said by someone like me. >> What do you do with the 100 million of them? >> The 100 million, believe it or not, are governed. That's We're going to go with 100 million. Regardless of how many they are, they're always governed by a small number on top. If the small number on top are dealt with, then you will find the 100 million dispersing like every other society. There are religions that no longer exist, languages that no longer exist. Why? Because the scholars passed away. >> What should happen to those guys? >> Um, we have a few more minutes. >> Yes, >> Patrick. There needs to be the clash of the turbans. Turbans need to start clashing, not physically, verbally. There needs to be presence online on TV of imams who reject the Muslim Brotherhood. Saysama bin Laden does not represent us. He would be executed in Saudi Arabia had he been caught and the people doing that would be Muslim for killing so many Americans. There needs to be imams who come out and speak in English. Unfortunately, there's a language barrier. I understand I'm not the only one who speaks in this manner. There are those in Farsy which you are familiar with and those in in the Arabic world as well. I need to mention Piers Morgan. >> Mhm. >> After October 7, people were turning to the Muslim world and they want to see the face of the Muslim community. And I'm I'm really sorry to say this. The people that Piers Morgan had on his show were not imams. They were preachers or academics and they were anti-semites at the same time. You know, Gaza, >> who are you referring to? >> You know, it's not about defamation. I don't want to dirty my mouth with their names. People like followers of okay um they should not be the face of Islam. What? But it's important for you to qualify because I think you know if you don't don't assume everybody that is non-Muslim that's a Christian or Jew or something else that they know everything about the different sex you're seeing especially the naive in the middle that will see so you you just said someone's name what >> it's an organization >> what can you talk talk to us about that organization and what their teaching is >> is an organization that its logo just pull it up please pull forb t a h r i r >> okay you see that logo that planet earth just click on that logo for me please look at that that's their logo the banner of al-qaeda pierced through planet earth that they want global caliphate these guys exist everywhere so one of the guests medical doctor from the UK that appears had on after October 7 because that's when people want to hear from Muslims right was from this organization and again I'm not blaming peers in any way I'm answering your question I'm saying such platforms need to bring in Muslims who have clarity of mind and thought and have depth in their understanding of religion of the Quran and can answer questions right not Muslims who just want to uh speak about Gaza and the Palestinian cause which is neither here nor there. You know, the Palestinian cause is not central to Islam or to the region. It's another issue like we're dealing with every other issue. >> Would Would you and Muhammad hijab agree on a lot of things? >> Of course not. Definitely not. I'd be damned if he approved of anything I said. I'll bury myself alive if he agreed with me. >> Why do you say that? >> That's a disgrace. Why do you say that? >> An absolute disgrace. >> Hijab. >> Him and his community. Him and his >> Are they part of that community or not? >> Correct. >> Okay. So, the community you were talking about. >> The Muslim Brotherhood in general is not a monolith. It comes in many faces. The academic face. It comes in the long beard uh no mustache uh appearances. They come in in different forms. But I if you look if you ask me um about him it's the same as though telling me if a deputy of Kame in America agreed with you how would you feel? No. These are people I do not categorize as peaceful people who want to coexist with Christians and Jews at all. This is not a community that is the face of Islam at all. Our father Abraham wants us to live together. That's what I'm getting at. What does Abraham want? When we say we we are Abrahamic family, what does that mean? It means our father Abraham wants us to coexist, live in harmony, live together, not spill each other's blood. Whoever does not champion coexistence and harmony and peace and I don't like the word tolerance but I understand it. You know I'm tolerating you. No acceptance of one another. You're a human. I accept you on that level as a human without the need to change you so then I can accept you. No, I accept you the way you are. And that religion is here to guide. You have yours. I have mine. >> And mine looks very much like yours. And yours looks very much like the Torah. Why? Because the one God spoke to Moses, spoke to Jesus, spoke to the prophet Muhammad. It's the same source of information. No one copied anyone. No one plagiarized anything from anyone. But this is Islam, monotheism, and Arabic characteristics for an Arabic society. A lot of blood was spilt for people to then realize we need peace and coexistence. I believe in the professional way. diplomacy, interfaith, dialogue, uh, research, studies. That's the path I take. I don't take the path of stripping your shirt in public, which is what these people do, and chanting and and screaming and yelling. This is a foolish, childish. What are you going to change in the world? No, I believe in professional discourse, which is why we have the amount of followers that we have. people listen to us and which is why the extremists hate us the most because of the impact we have on on on people in society. >> Yeah. Um the other doctor that you were talking about what upset you about the doctor the the what did she say? It's he what did he say? Is that the >> No. You want to put up medical doctor? Yeah. >> Here. Who's the medical do? But what did he say? >> I I'll tell you. Wait. I think if you go on images I think it's him I think yeah this this handsome chap now this this is tells you like peers needs to know this guy would enters a society in order to bring it down. They want a global caliphate. If if they if they rule they would execute the king. If they rule, they will execute the king and execute non-Muslims. And even Muslims like me would be third class, not even second class, if not total outright apostasy beheading. Is cancer. Their Muslim Brotherhood on steroids. The Muslim Brotherhood is more pragmatic. They'll participate in elections, you know, they'll uh like in Morocco for example, they'll show respect to the king. But when Gen Z uprising starts, they start funding them. So Muslim Brotherhood is more strategic. Outright tells you, we don't believe in your courts. We don't believe in your incorporation systems. We will operate without incorporation. There is no legal status and there's nothing you can do about it. This guy cannot be. And by the way, Piers did not agree with him on anything. Piers was really good. My issue is look, by the way, look look at the hat that he's wearing. The red that is the Muslim Brotherhood cap. If you go to Hassan Baha, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, that's the cap they wear. He's he he's coming to studio telling you he's an extremist and then you expect him to condemn Hamas. Of course, he's not going to do it, which he never did. But my issue with peers is that there needs to be um proper imams from the UK who are platformed in an equal amount or bring them face to face. As I said, clash of the turbons, excuse me. Let them clash. Let the British and let the Americans see the clash within the Muslim community. Let them see it because if they don't see it, they only see this guy. >> Are you proposing you're open to the idea or you don't want to have anything to do with it? >> No. Piers invited me, but he invited me at a time. his producer did invited me at a time where people were eager to get on screen to to capitalize um on on the u suffering of the Palestinians and I prefer a more civilized calm discussion with the host alone and I prefer it in person. Uh and I also appreciate being asked relevant questions like you asked me today. These are the questions Americans think of when they see someone who looks like me. And you ask me about Imam of Peace. When I was first called Imam of Peace, I adopted it, Patrick. Why? Because unfortunately, if you if you don't put yourself in a box, they will put you in a box. That's the main reason why that is my handle. >> Well, this is part one of I'm sure many and u it was a pleasure having you on. >> God bless you. >> Thank you for the gift. God bless you as well. >> Thank you. safe travels. And is there anywhere you want people to go to to learn more about you? Where would you like them to go? >> Just uh I'm on Twitter. I mean, okay. >> Um I imoface. >> There you go, Rob. If we can put that handle below so the audience can go find them, and I appreciate the gifts and the books, folks. God bless. Have a good one. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. >> God bless. Bye. When we set out to create a shoe that blends [music] comfort, function, and luxury, we had the choice to make it fast, we had the choice to make it cheap. We chose neither. Instead, we chose Tuscano. We chose true Italian craftsmanship, [music] each pair touched by 50 skilled hands. We chose patience, spending two years perfecting every detail. And we chose the finest [music] quality at every step. Introducing the future looks bright collection. Not rushed, not disposable, not ordinary, rather intentional, luxurious, timeless.