The City of Raleigh’s First Civic Assembly

We have an extraordinary group of leaders and panelists today to hear about the first ever civic assembly in the city of Raleigh. For those of you who are not familiar, civic assemblies are a really exciting form of democratic participation to engage everyday people in decisionm to empower them as agents of change. We'll hear a little bit more about how the process leverages sort or sort of jury duty for democracy and the opportunities to really engage people with a sense of agency, voice and power. We feel like I know America and the political reform team. This is such an extraordinarily important moment for this model when people feel high levels of distrust and disillusionment with their government on the local level. and we'll hear from some leaders inside city government in the city of Raleigh. On the local level, there are opportunities for people to feel closer to the policies that impact them the most and really affect change. Sometimes we think of it as collaborative governance, co-governance, building those hooks and levers between people in community and people inside city hall. And part of creating co-governance really requires what I call the three-legged stool, the role of intermediaries. And we're going to hear today from a leader in this space, Julian Younglug, the executive director of Civic Genius. Civic Genius has been really cutting edge deploying this model of civic assemblies around the country. Really thinking in a cutting edge and dynamic way about the role of technology, how to make these engagements fun and exciting. We're also so honored to be joined by Jacob Hunt, who is from a senior planner in the city of Raleigh, and Sarah Shaessi, I'm sorry. I apologize for mispronouncing your name. I'm sure I didn't do it justice, who is also the principal planner in the city of Raleigh. So, thank you all for joining us today. Please put your questions in the Q&A box. We will get to them. We want to have a really lively discussion and we're really grateful to you all for taking a little bit of time out of your summer to hear about what I think is one of the most exciting and promising innovations happening on the ground. So without further ado, I will turn it over to Jillian. >> Thank you so much, Holly, and thanks to everyone at New America for hosting us and for making this briefing happen today. Um, I'm Jillian Youngblood. I'm the executive director of Civic Genius, which is a program of the National Civic League. And we had the great pleasure of partnering with the city of Raleigh on a civic assembly that fed into Raleigh's next comprehensive plan. And I think this is a really good example of how you can incorporate an assembly into a huge undertaking um like a comprehensive plan for a growing city without making that undertaking unwieldy. So, um I'm here to give you both my rec uh restaurant recommendations in the greater Raleigh Durham area, which is my secret reason for doing this work, and also to walk with Jacob through the process. So, this model um that we used in Raleigh, it was a partnership between the city of Raleigh and the National Civic League. And I promise not to torment you with too many slides today, just a few. Um there are several models emerging I think of how cities are using civic assemblies whether they are working with an outside practitioner trying to do them the themselves and I really appreciate what Raleigh did which was to partner with the National Civic League um upskill city staff to be able to deliver these in the future um and then to kind of combine their local knowledge and expertise with our knowledge and expertise and I think uh produce something that was really special in Raleigh and feels like a sustainable model. So, this was a co-designed process um as I said between the league and the city. Uh we collaborated on communications materials that includes the invitation that went out to the public, public presentations and uh issue briefings, the explanation of the process on the website, all that kind of stuff. The city mailed the invitations and the league conducted the participant selection to pull a randomly selected broadly representative group of participants. And I'm using the league, the civic league and civic genius kind of interchangeably. Um we're a kind of semi-autonomous body of the league. Um so the league also trained small group facilitators which included some really stellar city staff, some of whom actually already had strong facilitation skills. Some were completely new to it. Um the process however was new to everyone and facilitating a deliberation does require a different orientation. So even some skilled facilitators are building new muscles and I had the pleasure of serving as the lead facilitator for the assembly. Um the city um sorry we were both at all of the sessions. So civic genius uh civic league staff and the city were at all six of the sessions. I think this is really important, especially when, as Holly was saying, we're really working to build trust in government. I think it was so powerful for people in the assembly to be able to spend quite a lot of time with their city staffers um in a capacity that wasn't at the at the DMV or something kind of aggravating. Um it was a lot of really good long high quality interactions. The city also has a top tier community engagement team which did a lot of leg work. So that included individualized outreach to social service providers, community organizations, schools. Um that ensured that the invitations got to folks who might not have a permanent address. They might are perhaps are just less likely to get their mail for one reason or another. So really made sure that those invitations got out to everybody. And we also partnered on an in-person community in uh info session and two online sessions as well. And I think that team did a great job of making sure that everyone in the city really knew what the civic assembly process is all about, why the city was doing it, exactly how it would work, and how they could engage or follow along. And Jacob, I'll pass it over to you to talk a little bit about Raleigh. >> Great. Yeah. Um so the reflecting Raleigh process um was essentially a a goal to recreate a new comprehensive plan for the city of Raleigh guiding all of our land use development in the city. Essentially what is the city going to look like in 2050 or so. Um we did a series of engagement work prior to the civic assembly. Um that was probably more of a what folks would consider a standard engagement where we held community events. um went out to meet people where they were um hosted um talkbacks with with the public to kind of hear their thoughts on policy and the future of the city. Uh those were also some educational opportunities where we hosted uh speakers, professionals in affordable housing and development, economic development, things like that. uh that resulted in some initial feedback as to what the the big topics of the next comprehensive plan uh were going to look like. Um that happened from about July 2024 to September 2025 and that's where uh I came in with the civic assembly uh project and and that plan development. So uh the civic assembly ran concurrently with something we called our technical teams. Oh, thank you Jillian. that uh discuss uh a little bit more the heavy technical details of what goes into this next comprehensive plan. What we were really looking for from the assembly and the assembly members was in-depth educated understanding and collaborative uh assign or um feedback on a specific question. And we'll get to that specific question a little later on in this presentation. But essentially giving us an opportunity to dive deep with members of the public to understand more than just the top layer of what the same people we often hear from at every meeting or in response to something that somebody might not like happening nearby. Um this could be a little bit more neutral ground. uh all of after the civic assembly and our technical teams finished up [clears throat] um we're now in a plan drafting phase where we're taking that information putting it to work um we'll do some more engagement after that reconnect with the assembly kind of share back how their recommendations are actually being implemented into the plan and then finally adopt it uh next year can go to the next slide uh just a little background on the city of Raleigh um if you haven't been here before or if it's the first time you've uh really dug deep into what Raleigh is like. Um, these [clears throat] different uh demographic metrics that are on screen now and we'll go through quickly really helped us determine what we were looking for out of an assembly. Looking to make sure we had one that was representative of the city we know we live in and work in, which was very different from the representation we typically get uh at a public engagement event outside of the civic assembly. So, it just happens to be that when we're doing engagement around land development projects, uh the folks that show up tend to be um older, wealthier homeowners. Um and and [clears throat] that's who's with us. We can probably go to the next slide and run through these. Um what we're hoping to get and what I do think we did get out of the civic assembly was a broad range of people. We had folks from six 16 years old all the way up um to folks who are retired, homeowners, renters. We know the city of Raleigh um is essentially 50% renter occupied and that's not representative in our day-to-day interactions uh with the community. So the civic assembly um as we sent out, you know, 10,000 uh invitations and developed a a group from all those responses we got back, we were able to build a body that really looked like and felt like um the city itself. Yeah. they talk about, yeah, we didn't check income, but we did check um home occupancy and and ownership. Uh the big question that we had people answer as part of the civic assembly was this remitt essentially just why are you all here? What are you addressing? Um and so what we came up with was that Raleigh is in the process of improving transit service around the city. How should the next comprehensive plan help improve access to the new service? What should the neighborhoods around frequent transit look like? Um, and this is the the central piece of the assembly, I would say, and it is a piece we had uh lots of discussion about beforehand and I think had a whole new round of discussion after the fact about what worked and what didn't work uh with this remitt. But essentially, our our goal was we're building um a new bus rapid transit system. We're building more frequent bus routes. Um, in the past we've kind of guided 60 or 70% of our growth to areas well served by transit. And one thing we wanted to hear is, is that what you think the future of Raleigh should look like? Should we continue to develop along these transit routes as our main focus of where new housing goes? >> Great. So, as Jacob uh alluded to, going through those demographics, uh we used what's called a sort process to select participants. So, our group was broadly representative of Raleigh along lines of age, race, ethnicity, gender, whether people rent or own their homes, and the city council district that they live in. And a lot of that taken together is kind of a proxy for income. it's very difficult to ask people um with certainty kind of what their income is. So, we use all of these different markers to get there. The assembly took place over six Saturdays and those were full days, basically 9:30 to 4:30. Um we had some time for breakfast, some time for lunch, but people were really working hard. It's a pretty big commitment. People did receive a $1,000 stipend, which is crucial, I think, to getting diverse participation. We certainly had some people who were really excited to come talk about housing. They were really pumped to talk about preserving trees. A good number of folks really needed $1,000. And it is that last group that I think traditional processes don't usually reach. Um the stipend also makes it possible for people to get a babysitter if they need to. And the city actually provided on-site child care, um which I a family with with four kids did take advantage of. So I think it was really important. uh and helped that family be able to participate. We followed the three standard phases of a good assembly which are learning, deliberation, and recommendations. And we split each of those phases roughly into two sessions. The city curated a really excellent educational program. And as Jacob said, the initial um initial sessions brought speakers to the assembly that helped them really understand the remitt and how it fits into the broader comprehensive plan and that whole process. The early speakers included city and county staff, community historians, and community members who were familiar with the development process. So, for example, assembly members heard from a small commercial developer. And from here, the assembly members really told us what they needed. Um, we had a giant post-it on the wall where people could go request resources or a speaker or something to read or something that they needed explained at any time. And the first thing that somebody wrote in giant all caps in a marker was, "I need a map." So, the city brought in all manner of maps and spent many hours walking people individually and in small groups um just through what the new bus corridors would look like, kind of exactly what we're talking about, helping people imagine getting from point A to point B. Um the the assembly of course was not designing where the buses would go, but I think in order to understand what you want those neighborhoods along the bus corridors to look like, you do need to imagine how you or other people would use them. So it was incredibly valuable to have the planning staff there. The city also brought in um some planning experts from peer cities who were able to provide a comparison to some other places. So we then moved into the deliberation phase which included conversations in many different permutations, participants moving among groups to spend time with new people with new perspectives and this is where you kind of confront the hard stuff. So you have a set of values which actually we can take a look at in a second. The information is starting to coalesce but you hit some uh some other information that is more than just details. So I mentioned that family of four. One of the things we heard from the mother of this family of four was like we're talking about highdensity housing and potentially new apartments. Can my family with four kids and two parents live in that housing? Um it's also a place where I think people can say some of the quiet part out loud. So, we had more than one participant who were not really sure how to say some version of I own my home and it's my greatest financial asset and what is this what is the impact going to be on me? And I think one of our jobs as facilitators is to help pry open those tough discussions in a way where no one feels like they're being attacked, but they can really talk about what their needs and incentives are uh in a way that's productive for the conversation. Also during the deliberations some of the assembly members a good number actually um toured they went on a bus tour. So the city provided bus passes. They provided a map with a recommended route and people got together on their own in small groups. A few folks did it on their own to ride the bus and imagine what these neighborhoods could look like if they had new development um of the variety that the assembly had been talking about. And it really helped people visualize what would it be like to live in this place to commute, you know, to and from uh work each day. I'm imagining when I need to go to the grocery store. Um or actually, it would be great to have a daycare here because my kids need to go, you know, people start to sort of think about all of their um the things that they do in their daily lives. And uh in a place that hasn't historically had a lot of mass transit, I think it was really really useful for people. Um, we can I'll just show you the values that the assembly came up with, but this was one of our earliest activities before we get into hearing what people's concerns are, hearing what people's needs are. People are really starting to get to know each other and it's a little bit like the first day of a reality show um where people aren't quite sure how to interact yet. People haven't really found their friends yet. They don't know who they're eating lunch with. So, a values exercise is a really good way to surface what we all have in common. Um, give us a kind of common language to use to talk with one another. And, um, I think they they came up with something that really guided the recommendations. Um, I think the the recommendations and the discussion really reflected um, what folks thought just on their first day coming in. So, I'll just really quickly give you a sense of the recommendations themselves. The assembly uh came up with a final report that included 27 recommendations which received 75% or higher support. There were only three that did not meet that threshold. Um, and actually a couple of them people didn't even disagree with, but felt that they were perhaps outside the remitt. one was a kind of cool idea that someone came up with at the last minute and I think people were interested in it but felt like they hadn't had enough time to fully consider it. So there really was not um tremendous disagreement after all of this deliberation which I think is very cool. Um there was one very thoughtful minority report from one participant. I think the minority report's a really critical part of any assembly report and it's the the mom of four kids who I was just talking about and it was really interesting to spend some time hearing from her. Basically, I think the thrust of her comments was she homeschools all four of her kids and she said something like, "A lot of these recommendations that increase [snorts] housing density don't necessarily help me. Um, I need a lot of space. We are home all day. I don't really feel like a lot of this conversation is speaking to what my family needs. At the same time, I understand why this makes sense for Raleigh. So, I think in the end, she actually did end up voting for a lot of the recommendations kind of with the caveat that um, you know, we also need to be thinking about folks who may not be at the forefront of the conversation. And you can read the whole final report. We can drop it in the chat. Um, I'll just call out maybe two interesting recommendations. Proposal three was to focus high density and mixeduse development in growth zones and corridors. That is a real endorsement, I think, of what um what the city was kind of in the direction that the city was moving in already. I'll let you read these on your own and not bore you with too too many slides. Um, it's pretty fantastic to hear people go from not knowing the word density in the context of housing, um, to having people propose things like small-cale neighborhood serving commercial uses. People really learn a ton during this process. It's really exciting to see people bring in all of their lived experience, everything they know, and absorb a ton of information and really integrate this new information into their their own thinking. Um, and I'll actually just show you or ask Emily um to show uh a quick video that gives you a sense of the process. [music] I am a North Carolina native as well as a Raleigh local for about the past 6 years in West Raleigh. I was really motivated by uh civic duty, a love of government, communication, uh being part of the community as a whole. Hi, I'm Jacob Hunt with Raleigh's planning department. We're here today on the last day of the Reflecting Raleigh Civic Assembly. Uh the Civic Assembly is a representative [music] group of Raleigh residents that have come together to help us tackle topics that'll go into our next comprehensive plan. The Civic Assembly is a great tool [music] that brings together a wide selection of Raleigh residents that helps bring innovative and novel solutions to city problems. [music] >> The work of the Civic Assembly mattered to me personally when I first read that the city was sponsoring this program because our city needs more feedback from residents. One of the best things that the assembly has done is they've taken a group of people that really represent [music] Raleigh, different ages, different income levels, where we live. >> We can all come together and decide [music] what is best for all of us regardless of our backgrounds. It It's really great and it's [music] taught me a lot. >> It's extremely important to me that we encourage the city to engage our community and engage the population. [music] So, I really wanted to be involved in that and encourage that open mind of communication. The future of what Raleigh is going to look like for our children [music] is important to me. It was hard. It was really fun. I think it's really [music] interesting to learn about city planning. >> I want to live in a place that [music] I can be proud of. >> Thank you, city of Raleigh, for doing this civic assembly and please do more. It is a fabulous way to bring together citizens in the city and move forward. Yeah, and you heard from um Lucia Phillips, who is one of our assembly participants who unfortunately was not able to be here with us today, but did present to the city council um and kind of walk through the recommendations and the process and I think um was a really powerful voice for the experience. Yeah, and I'll I'll hand it back to you, Holly. >> Um, great. Well, this is great. And we have a lively Q&A happening. So, maybe um I just want to introduce Sarah if you just want to jump in and just share any reflections on participating with the assembly. Um maybe something that surprised you from the process. And then I'm going to sort of pivot us to Q&A in a little bit. >> Sure. Yeah. So, um Holly introduced me already. I'm Sarah Shaughnessy. I work with Jacob in the city's planning and development department um managing the development of our new comprehensive plan for the city of which the civic assembly was a really key part as Jacob and Jillian explained. Um, I think one thing maybe that didn't surprise me, but that I was really pleased to see is the group that ultimately was selected was truly representative of the city. And most of the people I had never met before, which was one of our goals to talk to people that we hadn't talked to before. Um, so that was really great to see. It was also really great to see how they formed relationships with each other um, and worked through really challenging issues. I think by the end we had one member giving another member like rides to the assembly because she had trouble with transportation. So just to see people helping each other out, helping people work through complicated ideas or conflicting values um was just really really heartening. >> I love that. Um Jacob, do you want to jump in? It was great to see you in the video and also great to hear you know how you entered this but same kind of question I think reflection something that surprised you or also you know it could be also challenges you experience in the assembly. >> Yeah. Um, I think one of the interesting pieces to me was we often deal with folks, um, as I said a few times, I think, um, dealing with an immediate concern. Um, and so being able to take folks a little step back slightly and be able to think about their city as a whole, uh, was really really amazing to see. It it let them express those emotions in a way that was very productive and collaborative. And um that was I think um something that was amazing. I've seen assembly members at other events uh and other neighborhood meetings that we hold kind of as a as a wrote process in the city. And knowing that they've had that connection with us on this kind of deeper level um I think makes all of our feature conversations better and it makes me more comfortable dealing with all the public if I know well one of the members of that group was part of the civic assembly. they they have a deeper connection to to the planning process and I hope feel some deeper ownership over it. >> That's great. Um I think there's so many different pieces here. You know, Jillian, I really appreciated that story about the mom who's homeschooling and thinking about the recommendations from her eyes and sort of as you tried to build a process when you think about how to create more equitable and inclusive processes for people to engage. I love the stipens. I love the accessibility. I think you touched upon it, but you know, Civic Genius has been really cutting edge with thinking about deploying new tools and how to leverage technology and assemblies. Maybe we could just double click and hear a little bit more about your thinking on that as it applied here to Raleigh. >> Yeah, this is a really great question. My feeling in general honestly about using technology in assemblies is that we keep things pretty lowfi and there I think accessibility can sort of cut both ways. There are people for whom using new kinds of technology, being able to participate from home, um certainly if you have a hearing or visual disability, um there are all kinds of technologies that that you may absolutely need to participate. Um in general, I think having people in the same room without their screens, maybe this is just because I have school-aged kids and I'm very excited about people not having screens. Um, but I think people having that opportunity to really uh relax and kind of have your your heart rate go down a little bit and interact in person is really powerful for people. Um, it it's very easy to project your own assumptions on a conversation and it's just a lot less likely for that to happen I think when you're in a room with somebody because you're you're physically sharing a space. Um, all of that said, we had a snowstorm and we were unable to reschedule the snowstorm. So, we did one of our full day sessions online, which I I think actually went maybe I shouldn't say surprisingly well, but it actually went quite well. Um, we got some positive feedback proactively from participants who said, "I was not really looking forward to doing eight hours online, but that was great." So um in terms of cutting edge tools we used Zoom because everybody for the most part knows how to use Zoom. There are a lot of great deliberative technologies out there but people do not necessarily have time um or bandwidth or confidence to go learn how to use a miro board or you know any number of other great tools out there. So we tried to make it something really simple for people. We moved around the different components. We broke things up for the day um so that people didn't really feel like they were hunched over in front of their screens all day. Um so got a few more breaks perhaps than we would have needed in person. It works reasonably well I think for the learning portion where you are hearing from some people who are offering new information. I think we were lucky to be able to do the deliberating in person. It really helped that people had already had an in-person session so they knew each other going in. Um, but in general, my my advice for technology is to keep it pretty light and um, the feedback that we got was good. >> Sarah, Jacob, anything you want to share and jump in on this? >> No, I I agree. I think that uh the the low tech aspect worked really well. And I will say, if you're surprised to hear that there was a snowstorm in Raleigh, it was a Raleigh snowstorm, which means there was light flurries that shut uh everything down completely. >> We're based in DC, so we have the same phenomena. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh um No, I I think making sure that all of your members can participate regardless of their level of comfort uh with the assembly is is really important. Sarah, do you want to jump in? >> Sure. I guess the only thing I would add, we did not have anybody participate who had sort of a a visual or auditory disability. So, we didn't have to accommodate for that. But I think that would be something to consider, you know, when you're thinking about technology and where it's appropriate to use and where it might be a barrier for some people. >> I think that's a great point. I mean, I was also thinking about language translation. It sounds like that wasn't as pressing a need for this group of residents. We did actually have one person who needed an interpreter. Um I believe it was Swahili, right, Jacob? Yes. But we found somebody else from the community who we paid to be the interpreter. So we had somebody come in person. >> Yeah. And I'll just add the interpreter was doing real-time translation just sitting next to the person. And I think that very quickly in the process, the interpreter was absolutely as bought into the process as the person who had actually been selected to participate. And when we think about the effect that assemblies have on the participants long range, um I expect that this is maybe one of the people who you started to see at uh at other city events because he was really mobilized, I think, by the experience. I love that. I mean, I had the same thought. I was like, "Yeah, well, you're helping spur the local economy." You know, I think that's some of the great things when you're going out and getting out of, you know, your own comfort zone and getting into place. I think it's one of my favorite things to do. Um, well, so you know, when I think of technology, I mean, buses are also technology and it sounds like there was also these bus excursions that you all were doing to really make sure that people had this lived experience. Maybe we can just chat a little bit more about that. And we have a lot of really good stuff in the Q&A that we're about to turn to. >> Yeah, I I have to give a lot of the credit to the bus tours to the assembly members themselves. And I think that's a if anyone's interested in doing a civic assembly in the future, making sure you're building in time to respond to those requests from the assembly members because the bus tours were not something that we had planned from the outset. That was something we started to hear as a request from the members and then we created the opportunity for those um to happen. Given more time, we might have even done more or or more intensive versions of that. Uh but yeah, we were able to get those um routes scheduled, get people instructions on how to take the bus. They were able to form small groups to ride together, and we were able to get those bus passes out so they could hop on and off. Um >> and it was the first time on a bus, I think, for a good number of the assembly. Um a lot of folks who had never ridden any kind of public transit or maybe had done it in Europe on vacation in college. Um, but it was for a number of the assembly members the first time they had really thought about how would this potentially fit into my life. >> That's really interesting. Um, I I've done a lot of work on participatory budgeting and one of the aspects of participatory budgeting is sort of a needs assessment, a site visit. What's interesting to me is I think this this is the first civic or citizen assembly I've heard of in the country that did that kind of excursions. I don't know Jolene if you're seeing other folks. I think it's a really interesting hands-on learning through the process. It's something I'm glad we're sharing it today and we have a lot of folks joining us on the in the interwebs, but I think it's something really interesting to think about as as part of the civic assembly model because in a in a participatory budget, it's very common place to go out into the community. If you're on the transportation subset, you go in the schools, you visit the schools to really get a sense also of of equity concerns in an area. But I haven't heard this being integrated in the assembly model as much. >> Yeah, I think it is tough because of time constraints. Honestly, a lot to do. Um, and as we started figuring out, um, Jacob and Sarah did a and other staff did a tremendous amount of work trying to figure out the best way to do this. Um, and ultimately settled on just giving people the opportunity to do it as it made sense in their schedule. Um, so I think it requires some some creativity and isn't as straightforward, but is um was really critical I think to um kind of creating some of the emotional buyin that you need to do really deep thinking. >> Sarah, anything you want to add on this question around the buses? >> Um, no. I guess just put a kind of underline what Jillian said around flexibility. Um, I think initially we had planned, we got the request for bus tours and so we were like big picture, could we even like charter a bus and lead them on a tour, but settled on like giving them a route and a free bus pass to do kind of a self-guided tour, which was maybe even more impactful for them because they got to sort of experience it as they would as another regular transit rider. >> That's amazing. I have to tell you, we have some of the most lively Q&A I've ever had for a public event. So, you all are really cooking with gas. I have just one more question which is a little bit if you can just help us you know we have people coming on this call from all over the country just to have a little bit understanding of the city council unanimously accepted the proposals what happens now what is the timeline that we should be tracking for implementation and Jillian one of the questions in the chat now I'm going to Q&A is around if and how civic genius will work you know to sort of monitor sort of the implications ions and implementation of the recommendations. >> Yeah, maybe I'll let Sarah or Jacob speak to the timeline first and the council and then can answer that. >> Yeah, I I I'll say um as we took these to council um as to make them a little bit more digestible for really what council was instructing us to move forward with. Um they definitely did receive all of the recommendations. Um, our team in planning did some work to categorize those recommendations into different themes around affordable housing, land use, safety, um, things like that, and then talk to council about what those different recommendations [clears throat] kind of mean to our existing and future policies. uh whether they're just an endorsement of something we're already doing, which is great and is a direction that staff should continue heading in that direction. Um whether it's something that requires a different budget priority um that might be a little separate from the comprehensive plan, but it's still something we can endorse and make sure gets shared out, move forward with it, or if it's an opportunity for us to make an adjustment and change something in the comprehensive plan. Um, the one that really sticks out to me, uh, that I'm sure we will be trying to run with as much as we can is, uh, the idea of these kind of linear neighborhoods and ensuring that if you live along frequent transit, you have access to all all your basic needs along that transit route. Kind of taking um the idea of a neighborhood and not just making it the few blocks around you, but kind of this this linear idea. And then yeah um the future I think Sarah you can jump in but uh it would be to incorporate the recommendations in this current phase where we're writing the next plan and then reconnect with the assembly in our next round of engagement to say this is [clears throat] what we heard from you this is what we've written these are how we're connecting the dots kind of you know would like to hear what what you think. Yeah, and just to add a little bit on timing, so we wrapped up our work with the civic assembly in March and presented the recommendations to city council. They received their full report um with minimal staff commentary um just kind of at the beginning as a forward in May. And now um through January, we'll be kind of pulling all of those pieces together, input from the civic assembly, input from our technical teams, and other sort of more quantitative information and analysis into the final plan. and then taking that back out for another round of public engagement targeting um winter of next year, maybe early spring. >> Yeah. And I'll just add um from the Civic Genius perspective, we are around forever to make sure that the public is really getting a a solid and meaningful response to recommendations. Um I think that's a prerequisite for a civic assembly. If people are not really part of the feedback loop, then um you had a very expensive town hall. Um, and one of the many things I appreciated about working with the city of Raleigh is how committed they have been from the beginning and ongoing um, to making sure that that feedback loop is very clear and visible and that there's a lot of ongoing communications about how the recommendations are reflected in policy. >> That's awesome. Jacob, anything else you want to add? >> Well, we have so many questions. Um, okay. This I'll just start in order, but this is a really interesting one. I'm working with the state of Minnesota's long range planning team on a project exploring whether a citizens assembly could support long-term water planning. Oh, and they're asking about the best person at New America. I would be the best person to connect with on New America and I can share my info after this but um especially Jacob and Sarah curious if you have any advice or thinking to someone in you know state of Minnesota long-term planning team how do you even begin the process like knowing what you know now what kind of advice would you give to someone in in this process? >> Um yeah I would say plan um more time than you expect especially on the front end. Um, and I guess if you're really having to think about doing it at a state level, um, Jillian's probably more kind to know the answer on how you start reaching out to that many people statewide and how big that assembly um, would need to be. U, I I I think talking about long-term effects of something like water usage that have pros and cons and and folks have deep attachments to civic assembly really makes sense. I would add maybe give some thought to the timing of the assembly. I think we decided that we wanted to have it um kind of mostly consecutive Saturdays with a break for Martin Luther King, the Martin Luther King holiday weekend, but um you know, I think there are pros and cons. we decided that retention might be better and like sort of both in terms of people showing up and and people remembering what was talked about the last Saturday if we had them consecutively. But I know there are other models where um they meet for a few weeks and then they take a break to kind of digest what the assembly told them and they have some time to respond and gather more information and invite other speakers to talk. And I think there are advantages to that model too. So thinking about timing and really who um you want the assembly to hear from Jillian, I mean, you're you're doing this all over the country. >> Jillian's another great person to connect with all everyone. >> Delighted to talk all the time um about my favorite topic for sure. So, please feel free to reach out. Um yeah, we're in conversation with a couple of states actually about running statewide assemblies. And as you can imagine, they're a bit different um because people may need to travel. Um the state of Minnesota is a big state so um there are just some logistical things to kind of figure out but there have been national assemblies in places all over the world so it is more than possible to do that and I think on the topic of planning it makes a lot of sense. Um Raleigh has a comprehensive plan. There was a kind of you know definite thing that needed to be addressed. Um but Raleigh doesn't exist in a bubble. Obviously people live immediately outside the bubble. There are all of these um sorry outside of the city. Um there are all of these kind of arbitrary lines that we have to decide just or that governments have to decide in order to run things. Um but people may not feel that they are part of a particular neighborhood or jurisdiction or they may feel that they live in a metro area. Uh or they may have family in one part of the state and actually what's happening over there matters quite a lot to them in terms of transit and planning. So I think um larger regional and statewide assemblies on planning are are really exciting for this process to go in the US. Yeah, that's really interesting. You know, we have a lot of really interesting questions about the the nuts and bolts of the process. I'm going to try to condense and consolidate, but maybe if we can speak a little bit more about the mechanics of sort. I think this is a really interesting one and how you really build that panel of representative citizens while then also picking it randomly and we're seeing you know across the country really interesting models you know the sometimes the lottery ball is picked and the lottery ball corresponds to a set of panels and there's a lot of really interesting back-end work done to make these representative panels. So you that's that's a question we got and then I'll just bundle a couple and then another one is around where do the resources come? So you have the $1,000 stipens and you know where where does that where does that come from? So we'll start with those two. Yeah, I can take the sort piece of that. Uh it's funny it's sort of easy and difficult at the same time. So we use a tool called panelot selecting a panel by lot. Um which is a free online tool that is available to anyone who wants to run a sort process. Um it definitely requires a little bit of um there's a bit of a learning curve really to use it effectively, but it was developed by a team of researchers at Cornell, MIT, a couple of other universities for this purpose. And in short, the city mailed out 10,000 invitations to a random list of addresses. Um, anyone in the household that received an invitation could respond to the assembly and they answer some basic questions just so we know kind of what those five demographic markers are. They go into the pool and then using panelot we look at the demographic information for the city and we can kind of set maximums and minimums for um what it looks like to create a representative sample there and we put it into the machine. um we investigated uh over the years have investigated a few different tools for this and we think panelot has the most fair algorithm in terms of um of selecting a panel. So we've been really happy using that and then not everybody says yes. So people got the letter, they got the dates and then something comes up and now you have a ballet recital that day and you can't make it. So there's a long process of just going through to ensure that you can now select another person to fill that slot and still maintain the broad um representativeness of your panel. So that can take a few iterations and indeed it did. Um but we we were able to get I think to a room that really did reflect the city. can add. Um I think an important thing that we did in addition to the mailed invitations to join the lottery is we worked with our community engagement department. Julian, I think you mentioned this as part of your presentation, but to handel invitations to social service providers that could distribute them. We really wanted to make sure we were capturing people who didn't may not have stable housing, who um may not have a permanent address that wouldn't have otherwise been captured by our typical mailing. I think we used Raleigh Water addresses. Um and that I think helped us um get to our sort of representative [clears throat] targets. Um and then in terms of budget, we were fortunate enough to have a large project budget for the full comprehensive plan rewrite project. And so this um civic assembly came budget came out of our larger project budget which is which was funded through the council um CIP process. So our city budget. >> That's really interesting. You know, we have a couple of questions about this sort of really double clicking on what was happening inside the meetings like how you set the agenda. So maybe we could talk a little bit more about that. Thinking of sort of learning, deliberation, recommendations, and how you integrated feedback during the process to really make sure you were meeting the moment. I want to also couple that with a question that is really geared I think maybe to our friends Jacob and Sarah. How are you all internally thinking about you do the assembly, how do you build on that momentum? How do you leverage the assembly to continue to increase capacity inside city government for engaging residents and decision-m? >> Yeah, I can speak to the agenda setting a little bit. Um, we had a pretty strict agenda for our first two sessions. I think talking about urban planning, there's just a number of things that kind of need to be level set and understood [clears throat] um to move forward to make recommendations that are actionable in some way. So, we talked a for a good time about the history of development in the city of Raleigh. So folks understood how the city came to be. Um what different um groups might have been discouraged from taking part in planning processes in the past or or might be neighborhoods that were unfairly or unequally impacted by new development. And then moving a little bit into just what the process looks like, what's allowed by state law, what's allowed by national law, what we can and can't do um as a planning department, as a city, things like that. Um, and then essentially setting the ground rules for for what your remitt is. And that was a big um something we had to revisit a few times um to make sure folks understand what the what was really being asked of them. Um, we had folks that wanted to go down a rabbit hole of designing buses and talking about what like the the internal to the bus experience should be like, which is a great topic, but wasn't what um the the assembly was about. So, we had to do some refocusing back onto this idea of neighborhoods and the land and the land uses. Um following a couple of um really laidout sessions, it then turned to what are we hearing folks want to know more about? Um do we and do we already have that scheduled or not? And and that became um a lot of work between Sarah, myself, and other city departments to find speakers, find availability, and and who could come to talk on things like, you know, how are these bus routes planned? what are other cities doing that are facing the same kind of questions and um are coming up with their own answers too. Um so really the the agenda was was a mix of good level setting and then a lot of responding to questions we wouldn't probably have expected to come up. >> Yeah, I'll just add on to that. I think that's all um exactly right and it's a really dynamic process and I think is a very human process. Jacob kind of talked about some of the rabbit holes that that folks went into and I think it's very natural when you're encounter when you're encountering a ton of new information to either really dig into something because it's a way for your brain to focus and understand or to zoom way way out and there's kind of no limit to how big you can make a question. Um so folks I think tend to go one direction or the other. They're both totally natural and it's our job as facilitators to a just have enough staff have enough facilitators who are circulating around hearing all the conversations understanding where there are some common themes arising and using that you know and we're also in constant communication with one another as the days go on um to really surface like okay this is something that needs to be addressed. I am really hearing this thing about um you know family size or I am really hearing um from somebody I mentioned housing values earlier like we've had a couple of of homeowners in the group who kind of were feeling [snorts] like yep I understand this this makes a lot of sense I'm hearing about the way that Raleigh is growing and changing and I see that there is a need here that's unmet and also um I live in a place and I like the place that I live and I'm not sure how to voice that without sounding um you know sounding a certain way and being attacked for it. So, I think it's kind of our job to just like monitor the the flow of these conversations and if there are things that people in the assembly aren't really sure how to inject into the conversation that we can sort of help them do that or at least lay a foundation, kind of start a conversation that enables someone to jump in and say, "Yeah, actually, I was thinking that, too." So I think in this case it was fairly free flowing and we've done some work where we really go through modules and we really have a lot of set activities. I think that can work really well. um in this case I think it was a little bit freer and open which for this conversation um I think gave everybody an entry point and then I'll just say to the capacity question citywide um so planning um was co-lead on this project with our community engagement um department uh I mean we the question being asked was a planning question so that really let let us kind of take over the remitt and the education side of things, but our community engage department works with all different aspects of the city and I think has the capacity now to uh weigh in if this is something that was going to be considered in the future. And then our small group facilitators when we did a kind of breakout sessions at the assembly came from departments across the city. Um Jillian did a training with them, but we had folks from our uh we started a treatment um team. We had parks and recck staff. we we we just had a a wide range of people. So I think everyone got some exp or almost all departments got some exposure to the process and I think just knowing that it exists and knowing there are people in the city that can be a a guide in some way um is really helpful but Sarah might have more to say about the capacity. I think on the side of sort of uh so Jacob talked about building staff's capacity to have this process again in the future which I think that we were intentional about doing that um and having a sort of facilitator training on the other side in terms of like building resident interest and continuing to engage. We have a few existing programs. We have um a planning academy where residents can apply for a like multi-week course on kind of how planning works in the city of Raleigh. And then we have a similar program called neighborhood college which is like that but to understand all of the different departments. And so those were resources where we could like direct residents immediately if they wanted to learn more and stay engaged. Um and then I think residents kind of naturally started paying more attention like Jacob mentioned seeing um a civic assembly member at a neighborhood meeting for a reasonzoning request and um you know people uh knowing that they can attend and feeling more com comfortable and confident attending city council meetings and speaking up. So, I think we're already starting to see some of the participants um engage in other ways with the city. Um which is which is cool to see. >> We had one participant whose name is escaping me who asked I think Sarah maybe asked you um he was in high school and he at one of the last sessions um I think went up to Sarah and said, "How do I become a transportation planner? Is that something you can go to college for?" Um, and obviously the goal of the civic assembly is not necessarily to get everyone to become an expert and pursue a career in a particular field. Um, but it's it's one really cool example of um, I think how passionate people people can become after uh, digging into these topics. I hope he does it. >> I love that. I mean, it's so inspiring. I mean, you can feel the energy just talking to the three of you about the process and and how exciting it was. Um I think I'm going to end on this last question which is you know what is your advice? So we talked a little bit about to the if you are inside the city government or inside a state government we have a couple of questions of if you want to champion this in your own community you're an individual how do you get going right how do you start like as as we're sort of wrapping up I want to give each of you a chance to sort of give any closing remarks about as you're sort of you've had this really exciting um momentum this moment we've had a really great dynamic conversation we're really grateful to all of you for joining us today and as you think about from the individuals in their community. What are some lessons or things that you would advise them if they really want to start this up and maybe some things as you're thinking of the next phase that that you're keeping in mind as well? So, why don't we start with you Sarah and we'll go Sarah, Jacob, Jillian to close us out. >> Sure. I would say um there are a growing number of um city governments and other organizations in the US who are hosting civic assemblies. Um so feel free to reach out to Jacob and myself. I know Jillian is also a great resource and can connect folks um to assemblies in the United States and elsewhere. But just sort of looking to see what other people have done, the kinds of questions they've asked. Um and then I think um understanding what your budget is and where there may be flexibility to do like we did a citywide mailing and that was maybe our most expensive um budget item, but there may be other ways like you could do kind of an optin online or people get a QR code. Like I think there are ways to to modify based on your budget. So we we were lucky to have a a sizable budget to do kind of like the gold standard Cadillac assembly, but I wouldn't let that stop you if you don't have those resources. >> Um yeah, I I would say just make sure that if you're recommending it, the the question you're looking to address fits with an assembly. As much as we've talked about how amazing assemblies are, I don't think every question necessarily if an assembly fits every question. I think if it's a a technical question where there is actually just one correct answer, an assembly is probably not your best bet. And if the question is kind of too big and too vague and it's hard to make any sort of concrete recommendations on it, I think that could also be an [clears throat] issue. Um, but I also think as a pro for assemblies, what came out of it for me was uh it was not combative at any point. Even if it was if there were disagreements and there was um struggle to come to a consensus um there were tears there there was passion but it wasn't um it wasn't combative in the way some other engagement um or other contact with government can be. >> Yeah, I would plus one all of that. Um, I would add that more people in government want to do this kind of thing than I think any of us realize. And that's true at every level of government, local, county, state, maybe national, TBD. Um there are and we talked to elected officials all over the place across the country who have this issue that I think Jacob surfaced at the beginning of this conversation where they're hearing from people and that's great and people are going to their town halls and they're certainly getting phone calls and emails but they know that they're really only hearing from a certain segment of the population. Um that may trend demographically in certain ways and that looks different in different places. It also over selects for people who are very confident. It over selects for people who have time to go to meetings um and write their talking points in advance. That is very few people. Um I think a lot of great folks in government realize that this is a limitation and um to kind of pivot into something that else that Jacob was talking about. I also talk with a lot of elected officials who get very excited about this process and then the place where we sometimes get bogged down is defining what the problem is. What is the remit? So I think that's something I would start thinking about early is it is uh you know it's a a big undertaking. So you don't want to spend resources on something if it doesn't uh if the problem doesn't really merit those resources. So I think kind of putting those things together and just being really flexible with your timing is a great way to get there. Well, I we're so grateful to you. I think this is one of the most exciting innovations happening across the country and it's so great to see Raleigh leading the way. So, real gratitude and really thank you to all of the people zooming in on the interwebs. We have a really thoughtful collection of questions. I wish we could have gotten to all of them. We will be sending out follow-ups. We'll share some information, some links on this video, and please share widely. I think this is such an exciting moment and opportunity. So, thank you to Emily and Numeric events and thank you to our three amazing panelists, Jillian, Jacob, and Sarah. So, a lot of gratitude. Thank you all for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much.