The Best Machine for Every Body Part (Including Some You've Never Seen) | Mind Pump 2924

Machines have some value when it comes to building muscle, helping you burn body fat. They're especially good for isolating body parts. Today, we're going to talk about the best machines for each body part. Some of these are hard to find. >> Let's go. >> All right. >> Machines. Let's talk about some of these. >> Justin machines. >> Yeah. None. Name one. >> You guys got to name one. >> Yeah. Um, >> do you do leg press? [laughter] >> Yeah. >> There you go. Because I know we talk him and I talk about when we travel or we're not feeling it, you know, maybe overreach the last workout. Do you defer to machines or do you just go to mobility work? >> Well, yeah. I mean, if if I'm limited to just that in like the hotel, like there'll be like a pec deck or you know, like one of those if I have like something to do, >> if I'm absolutely held hostage. >> Yeah. If I'm held hostage and this is like my make sure nobody's in the room, >> I'll do it. See me? >> I don't know. I I don't mind machines. It's fun. It just feels like too easy. >> Yeah. >> For me. So, you're so strong. >> All [laughter] right, so here's what we did. >> That's not it. >> So, here's what what happened. I made this list and I wrote I put down some machines that are very hard to find, but these are machines that if I go into a gym and my goal is to do a a normal workout for me, which typically involves a lot of free weights. If I see this machine, I'm almost always going to use it. That's what I did is I listed the ones like, man, if I see that, I'm going to get on that one because I like it. >> Okay, >> so the first one we'll go with legs. This is a machine that is now uh like in mythology. It's like a there's like a lore behind it now because uh they only made 400 of them. I looked it up. >> Really >> only made 400 of them. They're huge. Uh and um people the reason why gyms don't have them is because they take up so much space and because people are afraid to use them. >> Is this that crazy one where it's >> climb it? >> Yeah. Well, you have to like press like over your head lay down on your back and you press out but you have to climb up it to get >> this is called the H squat by Hammer Strength otherwise known as Legosaurus. So it's this >> is that is that nickname? >> Legosaurus is a nickname. >> So it's this huge machine that you literally have to go upstairs to get on the top of and it's a leverbased squat machine. >> Only three people have died >> and it's [laughter] it's actually the best feeling. I've never felt a leg machine as good as this one. It's just uh to get into it, to do it, you're almost on display. Yeah. >> So, if you're not really confident, I'm sure you wouldn't want to go up there. Takes up a ton of space. But till this day, bodybuilders talk about it fondly and they're like, "Man, I wish I wish I had access." >> It has to be one of the most ridiculous machines. >> It is. But it's got such a crazy feel to it. It really does feel really good. It's >> a terrible example, but this is like Tommy Lee, you know, like when he's in his cage when he's playing drums and he flips upside down. You're like, why? >> It's for show. Yeah, >> it's for show. No, this one actually feels really good. the range of motion. The thing with leg machines I don't like often is the range of motion is kind of short often times with leg machines. >> Yeah. >> But this one is like a real deep kind of squat uh type of uh range of motion. >> Yeah. >> Um just by the way it's set up and designed. So I just love the feel. Now as far as >> I figure you would have put like a a belt squat on there. >> I love that. Now that's much more common. You'll find belt squats. >> Oh yeah, they're not crazy common, but they're more common than like I I mean the chances that anybody listening this podcast is going to ever see the machine that you just brought up. >> If you see an H squad, take a picture of it. >> Yeah, cuz that's how rare that is. >> Belt squat is is a You're right. That is such a functional >> I feel like that's a good honorable mention there. >> Totally. Totally. I would say for sure that's one of my favorites 100%. >> Buy one, get another for free. Buy any one of the top 10 maps programs. Top 10 most popular MAPS workout programs. Get any other one for free. It's happening right now. Go to mapsbogo.com. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Uh, all right. Next, we get to back. Adam and I have talked about this machine many times. I got a fond uh machine connection to it. If I see it, I don't care what my back workout is scheduled to do, I'm going to hit this machine. >> Uh it's an old school Nautilus pullover >> and they're just hard to find. >> I love that. I brought this up the other day on the podcast because I said Joe DeFranco shared it and we had this like conversation and >> what did he say about it? He had just so he had walked in some I want to say it was like some old physical therapy office place or whatever and he was you know showing his audience he was videoing he's like check this out these are and he's talking about how great all these old machines are and he goes over to the the the chain Nautilus pullover and I'm like DMing him like as he's doing it I'm like this is and he's and we we go back and forth for like 10 minutes just about how that's the greatest machine that was ever >> this look like like laying down. >> No, no, no. It's a pull overhead. No, you sit. >> You sit in it. You sit up. It's It's chain. It's not a cable or a strap. It's a chain, which is probably why they don't do it anymore because you catch a finger in that. You're losing your finger. >> Yeah, sure. You're losing. >> But you put your elbows on pads and then there's a hand. >> You got a foot you got a foot stomp here. So, it brings it to where you can get locked in. Yep. >> And then you let go of the foot stomp and then it'll it'll pull you back. >> So, you get like a stretch and a crazy squeeze at the same time. >> But you're sitting straight up. >> Yeah. You're sitting just like you are in your chair right now. And you have a foot stomp that will bring it back over. Remember, you've done that tricep one before. the tricep one. >> So, it's like never done a seated like upright seated one >> pullover. Oh, it's so good. >> If you have trouble getting a pump in your lats, you will 100% >> get a pump. It's such a good It's such a good It's awesome. You can load it good. It feels good. It's a shame that there's not >> It's You know, I know they got rid of the chain because of safety and stuff like that, but you would think they would have made it even a cable or a belt version of that. >> They are. There are cable and belt versions. I know Hammerstrength made a plate loaded one that I would sometimes see. It's just it's one of those things like again machines moved away from bodybuilders and athletes and towards the common consumer >> and a pullover machine is one of those machines that the average gym goer looks at has no idea how to use. >> So it's just it's just difficult. >> Yeah. >> I feel like hammer strength was pretty good in terms of like you know the feel and and it being still performance driven. >> Hammer Strength did a great job because what they did is they and Nautilus did this. The original Nautilus was good at this too, but Hammer Strength tried to create um like resistance curves uh with their equipment so that it was harder at one point, easier at another point and gave it kind of a different feel. That's why it became so popular. Yeah. With bodybuilds. Uh um honorable mention for back obviously a cable row. I think a cable row is a staple. Uh you know, I guess you could call it a machine, right? >> Yeah. But that's so standard. >> It is. >> Yeah. That can't be an honorable mention. Honorable mention has to be like somewhat unique. Okay. >> There's nothing unique about a Oh >> yeah. I would say like you know what I like the back. >> You know what I like and I think you would agree is the the standing tea bar row. >> The one that you that has the platform and chest support. >> I love that. Yeah. You you don't see those that often. >> You can make that at home. Put the barbell in the corner. >> You can, but there's something about the plat cuz a platform elevates you and you have a thing to kind of lock it and set it out. So it's just it's comfortable for that. And when you do the when you do it between your legs with a bar, it's not as comfortable and wedge it in a corner. >> So when I see one where it's it's I always I will always go over and use that for >> that was I love that. >> That was a staple exercise for me as a kid. So as a kid I used to take the barbell and I wedge it in the corner and the first time I did it I was like this is and it was literally one of the exercises I always did. >> Yeah. And maybe that's why too when I was when I first started lifting that was a staple movement and then later on I saw oh wow someone's made like a a machine out of it and I'm like oh that's >> it's like the only use for uh landmines for a while there back in the day. Yeah. You just do like a tea bar. >> You know what's crazy as we're talking about this there's such a difference between how people This is just a little side combo. how people do a T- bar row non-chest supported like you're saying how they do it now versus how they did it in the 70s. You ever watch them do it in the 70s? >> Oh yeah. Full range. >> They're going they're like doing a back extension with. >> That's why I like it because so the the the chest supported one you only have a certain so so far range of motion. Just the row part. >> Yeah. And the standing one I could take it all the way and completely like round my back and then come back. Yeah. I just Yeah. No, it's it's one of the best machines. >> Love it. All right. Shoulders. I put this one here because [clears throat] it's not a uncommon machine. >> You should be fired for this. >> But [laughter] I the way this feels. >> Yeah, we're going to contest. >> This is a higher skill shoulder exercise, but it places me in a position that I can't get uh doing almost anything else. And it's a Smith machine upright row just cuz it's on a track. It's bringing it to where I want and I can really feel the lateral head of my >> That's so weird you would pick that. >> Well, what's yours, dude? >> I mean, anything else? I mean, yes. No, I'm serious. It's like a I've done that before and been like no like I'd rather have a barbell doing. >> Do you have a favorite shoulder machine? >> I mean how about the Viking press? >> Oh god. >> Is that considered machine? >> Yeah, of course it is. >> Well, yeah. I mean you're [clears throat] you got to use a a landmine again and have leverage with that. But I don't. >> And they make they make like they make like machines that are like Viking press machines that are cool too. >> I you know what that's not that's not bad. The first time we used one it uh was here and we saw who was it that was using it? Was it was it Ben? Um what's his name? Powerlifter. >> Pakolski. No. Oh. Oh. Pollock. Pollock. >> Pollock was using one. Yeah. Then we ordered one. We used it here. And um the feel on it. It's the extension. Yep. >> It's that full extension that squeeze the top. >> I love that. You know the other machine I really like? I know it's lateral stuff, but it's still cool. The standing lateral where you grab the handles that are like kind of free. >> Dang. That's the one. >> That's another great one, bro. I could go all day on this. This is That's like the worst one you picked right there. Another great one is the the golds in um Monterey has where you lay flat on your stomach and you can do rear del rear del I never like that. >> Oh bro, I love that. >> Is that where you put your face in the hole massage table? >> Yes. Looks like a massage table and you can get I mean there's there's >> your buddy while he does that by the way. >> Yeah, that one you never see. >> And there's not a lot see it. Nobody has to use it. >> I know. And there's not a lot of great rear delt movements, right? There's only so I mean there's only so much you can do rear delt wise. Uh, and so to have a machine that you can really target, >> basically locks you in. >> Oh, yeah. I So, that was one of my favorites. Um, >> yeah, I could think of a lot of good shoulder. >> The standing lateral ways one was a good one cuz if I see that, I'm using it. >> Oh, yeah. It's great. >> 100%. >> It just feels so comfortable. Yeah. >> You know, because it's it's all the the handles. >> Do you even know what that is, Justin? >> What? No, I don't. [laughter] >> I've played around with your like I don't have like fond memories of you guys. Jess was like, "Give me a barbell dumbbells." What are you guys doing? >> Which I love. >> Yeah. This is the guy with the massive arms over here. All right. Uh chest. I This you see sometimes in the early 2000s. You don't see it too often now. Do you guys know what the freeotion multi uh multiplane like chest machine is? >> So, it's like you're sitting in a chair. It's got a back to it. And then there's cables here. >> So, you can do presses or flies. I like that. Oh, man. It's the best. >> Yeah. It gives you really good range of motion. >> It's the best for for flies. Again, not a ton of versatility. Probably why they got rid of it uh at gyms. >> Um but >> you can do so much with Yeah. just the free motion by itself. You know, you can get Yeah, you could put a bench. >> So versatile. Yeah. It's like what's the point? >> But I like it because you can adjust you could go upper chest, lower chest, you can get a deep stretch, squeeze. >> Yeah, I can get down with that. I like that. I'm trying to think right now. There's not a lot of uh chest machines I'm a huge fan of. >> Me neither. I was never a fan of I know everybody loved the hammer strength like chest press. I never liked it. >> I never felt it that much. >> It does. Okay. >> It's not. >> It was always like a finisher like machine. Yeah. I I've always thought You know what it is too? It's like one of those you should stack a bunch of weight on it. So it's like so not impressive. >> Especially the decline one. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Cables are always best if I was going to do any kind of flies. Yeah. For range of motion. >> Absolutely. All right. Next for biceps. Biceps are pretty easy to hit. So um you know machines, whatever. But there's a seated curl machine that you'll sometimes find where your elbows are locked here and there's and there's uh cams that help you curl up. And I've always liked that. >> So I like that. But if there's one that I like more that I get excited when I see cuz you can uh that's a little bit easier to emulate or simulate. Uh the one where your elbows are positioned up high. >> You can't you're that's great. That was the other one I was thinking of because you can't [clears throat] really do that on free weights. >> You can't. And it's just not >> You can't really make that challenging. Yeah. >> Exactly. you can't where so it locks your elbow and shoulder in and you can really concentrate and it's just a position that you normally wouldn't put your I mean you can do that you can try and do that with cables >> it's not it doesn't feel the same um without the support uh and so you can actually kind of load it in that position so if I see that that bicep machine I'm doing that bicep machine >> I no I agree um for triceps so this is a machine that when I was a kid I didn't like and the main reason I didn't like it is I just would put too much weight on it and it just didn't feel good. And it wasn't until I got older where I stopped caring so much about how much, you know, the weight stack was and I would just go light and try to make it work. And this it feels great. And it's a seated skull crusher machine. Nautilus made one with pads. This is where your elbows are on top and you lock yourself into the pad. >> Two handles >> and you're not going super heavy, but you're really going through a full range of motion. Uh if you go light on that, um it's going to give you a real good feel. The only reason why I never like that one that much is you you if you you have to go really light because if you go heavy it rocks your rocks your shoulder and elbow back. >> I like the one that I was referring to Justin. Uh >> overhead. >> Yes. Oh man. When you put your foot down and then it gets Yeah. It'll pull all the way back down and you could load you could load that really well. Um if they and there's again Monterey has that >> uh or not Monterey but uh Bernal have >> Yeah, I think yeah, you're on to something with getting the elbow position up high for the machines. I think that would be the move cuz like dips like how are you going to beat dips, you know? Yeah. Otherwise, it just >> there's there's a dip machine. Now, there are dip machines you see. >> I mean, that one you push down that's pretty weak. >> There's one that I that I rarely ever see that is plate loaded. It's got long arms like this and they're just big tubes that come up and you add plates in the back. It actually feels really good. >> What gym had that? One of our gyms had that over here. I like that one. I like that too. But I'm with Justin that the o the the overhead one is I think if you see that for triceps that's I'm going over there for sure. >> And then for glutes you see these all over the place now. Hip thrust machines are actually pretty good. >> They are. >> They're actually really really good. >> I mean I actually would make the case for hip thrust machines over barbell. So would I >> cuz barbells really tough to get get comfortable. >> Get set up get in. Yep. And the range of motion is really just the plates. >> Yeah. It digs into the bone. >> And it's and it's it's an isolation type of exercise anyways. So, it's not like you're, you know, like you're getting tons of benefit for it being a free weight. And so, that's actually a machine that I would probably opt to do over free weights more often than not. And speaking of which, I know uh hip thrusts are really popular with especially with women who want to build their glutes. But I'll tell you what, if you're a guy and you want to improve, well, let's say athletic performance, you want to get faster at sprinting. Uh the data on the uh on a hip thrust uh shows it's got great carryover to sprinting. And then if you're just looking to be strong, this is my own personal anecdote, hip thrust was is one of the few exercises that have a direct carryover to my deadlift. Mhm. >> Like there's a few exercises that'll have carryover. A lot of them don't have too much carryover. Like if my squat gets better, I typically will get a better deadlift. But when my when I do a hip thrust, I feel it right out the gates. Like right away, I'm stronger. >> A guy that has like no shame. You know, >> I was going to say Jay Justin and I >> We'll let you We'll let you have that award. [laughter] >> Go for it, guys. >> We'll let you We'll let you be the guy. >> It's not the worst exercise you could do. >> You look cool. >> You ever watch old uh old videos of bodybuilders doing donkey calf raises? Oh my god, bro. Oh, where they sit on each other. >> Yeah, for like riding your buddy. >> Those are [laughter] >> those are close. Those are close. >> Yeah, those are close. Close. >> I know. I know. [laughter] It's crazy. Anyway, I uh I Dude, I read a a story. I'm going to pull up this story that I read. It's a true story. I confirmed it. >> One of the craziest things I've ever uh read in terms of like a like this is a true story of a doctor that had to do something really crazy. This happened. This is a Soviet um this was a Soviet Russian surgeon. So I'll read this to you. This is crazy. In 1961 during the sixth Soviet Antarctic expedition, there was a doctor there was the only doctor at this on this supply ship. Okay, so he's a doctor for the supply ship and they're doing work. The sea froze over and the team was isolated and stranded. Okay, and they're like, "Okay, we got to wait for the winter to be over before anybody can come get us or we can get out of here, but we got supplies. We're just going to chill here in the sea until this this, you know, kind of works >> on the lock on the boat on lock. >> Yeah, cuz the sea froze over. They couldn't go anywhere and nobody could rescue them. Okay. >> Does that I didn't know that like happens. That happens. >> That can happen. Yeah, that can happen. Uh so nowadays we have like ice. It's rare, but this was 1961. Like you guys are stuck, which is which is fine. They're probably not going to die. They're okay. They got supplies. But here's where it gets crazy. the 27year-old uh doctor started getting classic symptoms of acute appendicitis. So he was like, "Oh no, I'm the only doctor here." >> And you got it. >> I This is definitely appendicitis. >> Did he do it on himself? >> And if I don't like if if someone doesn't operate on me, I'm dead. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to die. >> So he did he like had to direct it or he do it himself? >> He had one of the one of the guys there. No, no. One of the workers there. This is not a surgeon. This is just a guy. He's got like the chef. Who would you pick? >> No. You're stuck on the boat. Who do you pick? >> No steady hands. >> Yeah, the chef, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] It's the best guy. That's the best guy for the job, right? >> Well, dude, he took he took one of the guys and he all he did was he trained him on the equipment. He's like, "I'm going to tell you to bring me this, give me that." And then so he taught the guy what the equipment was. No anesthesia. >> And he gave himself a 2hour operation, >> dude. 2 hours. >> 2our operation. Removed his own appendix, sewed himself back up, >> and lived. >> Brutal. >> Wow. >> That's brutal. >> When you hear stuff like that, how weak. >> I feel like a total wuss. >> Yeah, dude. [laughter] >> Like 100%. >> Cuz you operate on yourself. >> I mean, to think too that to for him to know that he needed to do that like the average person probably wouldn't even know what's going on, right? You you' just be in this pain and you wouldn't understand what was going on unless unless you were a doctor. >> Well, he So, what happened if you read about the story uh >> pass out? He first he realized like, "Oh no." >> Could you could you imagine doing being like doing the instructions and then pass out and the guy's like, "What next?" [laughter] >> So what he So here's what HE SAID. >> WHAT NEXT? >> UNPLUG THIS. >> The red wire or the blue wire? I don't know. So here's what happened. Here's what he said. First off, when he realized it was append appendicitis, he >> he went into despair cuz he's like, I'm going to die. >> Yeah, there's pictures. >> I'm not going to survive this like like this is crazy. Then he had to have this mind shift and he's like, "Okay, I'm a surgeon. I have to do this. I have to separate myself from this whatever." >> Yeah. >> Then he told somebody, one of the guys there, "You need to give me these instruments." He trained him. And then he told this other guy, "If I pass out, your job is to wake me up." >> Wow. >> Cuz he knew that was a real possibility. >> Okay. He did. He was like, "If I pass out, smack me. Wake me up >> so I can finish the surgery." >> And he just Yeah, dude. He's >> gangster. This is Russians. Yeah. [laughter] >> They're different. They're different people. Don't care. You did I ever tell you when I did a judo tournament against the Russians? There was a Russian team that came when I was a kid. Really? Did I ever tell you about this? >> No. No. >> I was 13, I think. And we did this big tournament and there was a Russian team that had come in to also compete and they had all ages. And so one of their one of their kids, one of the kids was my age and he was in my group or whatever. And I I don't remember what I at this point. I think I was a I don't want to say I say yellow bell. And we were allowed and my age and my belt meant I can also choke. So there's a certain point in judo where you can't choke unless you're this age and a certain belt. They won't let you do chokes. Interesting. >> It's not like jiu-jitsu where the four four wheels choke each other out. But anyway, so I'm going against this kid and he I was a lot bigger and stronger than this kid. Okay. Russian kid. >> And I'm on top of him and I'm choking him and I don't have great technique so I'm just strangling this kid basically. And he's like not tapping out and his face is changing colors. Looks like he passed out at one point. My mom's yelling at me from the stance to stop. >> She's yelling, >> "Stop. You're going to KILL HIM. YOU'RE HURTING [laughter] HIM." >> In Sicilian, she's yelling at me. And then she's literally telling me I'm in tr like you better stop or you're in trouble. Yelling at me from the stands in Sicilian. You're going to kill him. You're hurting him. Stop it. You're hurting him. Cuz I'm like on top of him trying to get this kid >> to tap out. He wouldn't tap out. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah, dude. I won. And I remember thinking like, dude, does he just let me? >> He can [laughter] tap, man. That's so bad. >> No, that's so great. >> That's the Russian. [laughter] >> I know. >> Hey, you and your your boys getting ready to take off, huh? >> Yeah. Yeah. We're about to go on a little trip to Atlanta and uh >> Are they excited? >> Yeah, >> they are. >> Yeah, real excited. >> Okay. It wasn't like you had to like dad co them to go and stuff like that. They were like, >> "Wait, what is this for?" >> Uh, so we had a caller. Remember the caller? >> Oh, this is the the >> NFL the Falcons. >> Yeah, she's part of the the Falcons. And so they're in training camp right now. And I was like, "Ah, this is a great opportunity." Cuz Everett's like really into football, but not like to the point where he's, you know, watching it on TV, like really like knows the players like, you know, he just he likes playing a lot, you know, and I'm trying to like, >> you know, stoke that a bit more. So, I think this will be great for him to meet the players and like training camp. Yeah. >> So, we're going to do that. And then there's also I guess there's like a Porsche experience like right next to it. So, do you know the first day we're going to do like a, you know, racing track and they're going to drift with the kids with the cars and stuff. So, yeah, it'll be cool. I I just figured, you know, if you're going to throw something out like that, I'm going to take advantage. >> You know what's always cool about that? I think everybody at some point I'm not a big Everybody, you guys tease me. I'm not a big, you know, traditional sports guy, but I do believe everybody should experience seeing a worldclass athlete in person do something Yeah. athletic because it's wild. >> Well, and also it's like just being on the same level if you're like on the field with them. Yeah. >> Yeah. You just you see the the the size, the power, the speed, and you're just like, "Oh my god." >> Oh, it hits different in person. It's one thing to watch it on television and then you get it up up close. >> 300 lb uh man run faster than you've ever seen. >> It's going to give me PTSD probably. [laughter] I was like, I got right to that point and was like, "Yeah, I'm done." >> Well, I remember the first time I saw a 90 plus mph fast ball and I was standing, you know, kind of next to where the batter would be. And to see the ball come from the pitcher, first of all, I didn't know it made a sound. It's like makes a sound. Yeah. It like flies through the air and it like makes a sound. And to see the ball move >> and that fast >> Oh, it moves. Yeah. >> It was weird. >> Yeah. It was weird. It was like how did >> my my buddy caught he was a catcher for you know Mark uh for Chico when Chico uh this the years that they went and won the uh the series and he caught for a couple guys that end up being uh MLB pitchers >> and and even like at that level right really high level uh uh collegiate level that are going all the way to championship with guys that will end up going to MLB there still is like a you know a difference between the the best pitcher of the league versus like good pictures and he's like, "Oh, it's like Yeah. He's like, it's like an extra 10 m an hour and that 10 miles an hour." He goes, "My hands would be black and blue." >> In the mitt. >> Yes. In the mitt. He goes, "It's just such a different feeling." And then how it comes on he's like the way it gets on you like he goes see it for a split second uh leaving his hand and then it's in your hand. >> It's one of the only sports I can think of where you're doing it like you're killing it. If you touch the ball three out of 10, >> you have to be predictive. Like literally like right as it like before it even leaves his hand, you already have to like know where you're going. >> It's wild. I just watched a video of a three-time NCAA Division One wrestler, which is like incredible. Like you're a top wrestler in America >> at that level. You're great. >> Yeah. and he did was at an Olympic trial and he was wrestling against a uh Olympic gold medalist and just got looked like he just didn't know what he was doing. >> He got crushed >> by somebody. There's such a different the levels that you get to >> Y. >> So to see that in person, I think everybody should experience. >> I love it. It's very humbling and also like inspiring at the same time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because some things are not so easy to see like um intelligence entrepreneur uh you know entrepreneurs who are brilliant. You kind of see the proof in the pudding by what they do, but you don't with athleticism. It's very clear. It's very black and white. Oh my god, I can't believe someone runs that fast. Or how do they hypocrisy? It's very obvious. Yeah. You're It's a great That's a great analogy because it's something like with business and intelligence, it's not you don't know what you don't know. >> You have no idea. >> Yeah. You see outcome and you go like, "Oh, that oh, he must be good, right?" Or it's like, but >> but you don't realize what level the productivity and the >> to be able to do something like that. But like speed is speed. Power is power. someone like you see it in with your eyes. It's like it's very very obvious. >> Yeah. Speaking of athleticism and stuff, I'm again I'm going to keep uh hammering this drum that I think the next big uh supplement for fat loss and athletic performance are probiotics. >> Oh yeah. >> I wonder if it's already, you know, since we're talking about >> they're not advertising it as such. So like >> they're not. But I you you know what though? Like I This actually would be a good question for you while you're out there. Okay. I would not be surprised if like the NFL and like teams like that are already looking into that >> already using it with athletes and things like that just for for >> you think because like a lot of times uh stuff like that that's outside you know lifestyle wise they're always like seeking coaches you know and like personal trainers and people like outside nutritionists but yeah it'd be interesting to find out if they have like a team protocol or not. Well, so like so we work with seed, right? So if people don't know, um I mean we did our homework and they're the best. They're the best in the world when it comes to to the kind of strains that they use and how they deliver the strains to where they need to go and how they keep them alive and all that stuff. They have yet to uh advertise them as athletic performance supplements or fat loss supplements. The data is there. >> Yeah. >> And I you know it's you know what reminds me of it's like creatine. Creatine was gotten known for strength and muscle. Mhm. >> Now, we know it's this longevity supplement, >> probiotics, uh, sold as gut health, improves your gut health, obviously, >> but it does way more than that. Mood, anxiety, fat loss, athletic performance, strength, endurance, all the data is there. It's like a very, it's a good for you supplement that also helps with your fitness goals. So, it's obviously it's going to help with your overall like health and function and, you know, improve everything, all your systems and digestion, all that kind of stuff. But what what have they attributed to like the actual performance increases like >> benefit-wise? >> So, here's what we have with the studies. We have studies that show the end result. So athletes that take probiotics versus athlete that don't, >> they uh have more strength gains, uh they have more athletic performance gains, more stamina, they recover faster. >> Okay, >> explaining the mechanisms uh is difficult because uh >> you can't really parse that out. >> Well, the microbiome is super complex. I mean, we could attribute it to >> improved neurotransmitter production, reduced inflammation, better >> maybe you could recruit at a higher capacity, >> better nutrient assimilation. I mean, I don't know. But >> truth is, it's probably a little bit of all of it. >> Yeah. >> Or there's could be something direct. >> Works better, bro. >> Or could be there could be something direct. >> I wonder how I wonder how it like uh um compete. Well, not competes, but how it measures up uh to like the comparison to like a multivitamin >> like how how like how good does it do as far as in comp? Is it do you think it's better? Do you think it's going to be superior? Well, so multivit multivitamin is so widely accepted, everybody, every doctor recommends it, it's if you're nutrient deficient and you take it, it's attacking the hard thing with the multivitamin is if you need a multivitamin, it's lifechanging. >> Yeah. >> So, >> yeah, but the you can make a case that everybody does because the in order for everybody to get all the nutrients that they need for like your RDA, we've talked about this before, you'd have to have two servings of liver, 3,500 calories. It's like who's eating 3500 calories from whole foods and liver every week? Nobody is. So if you're not, then there's a case for everybody should >> I mean I hear what you're saying. What the point that I'm trying to make is if you have an actual deficiency because there's like there's deficiency, there's adequate and then there's optimal. Yeah, that's fair. >> Okay. So adequate, you're not going to have symptoms of a deficiency. Now optimal, you'll just feel better. It's not going to be super perceptible, but over time there's like a difference. Okay. And we know this. But between adequate and deficient, it's lifech changing. If you're deficient in a key nutrient like vitamin D, >> yeah, it's fair. >> Uh your body is you have symptoms of illness, you know, depression, anxiety, pain, hormones, >> which is like comparing to somebody who if you have severe gut issues and you take a a probiotic and all a sudden that makes a huge difference. I mean, that's life-changing, too. >> It could, but I it's uh yes, but I don't know if you're necessarily deficient. Uh because probiotics have been shown to benefit everybody. >> So like anybody who takes a probiotic um tends to derive benefit from it. So it's kind of good for everybody. >> Yeah. But wouldn't that fall in line with the multivitamin too? >> I mean maybe I know Seed has a multivitam. You guys know that? >> Yeah. You know I watched a really >> they have a multivitamin too. >> Someone was breaking down some of the some of the best like supplement companies and it was like an Instagram reel. R totally random. No one even affiliated with Seed but Seed popped up as one of the top five. Yep. And they talked about what they did such a good job of becoming the best >> at a probiotic first before they did like obviously the market was there for them. They >> stayed in the lane and really just like get known for the best of this and then they did all that's their hero product right. So and then they went on and they talked about that's what the the real was about uh understanding like a hero product for brands and they are a classic example of some a company that did that so well is yeah hit it out the park with that and then they've added stuff since then. >> That's great. Hey, what did you guys It's been out now now a few days. Uh we've talked about this off air, but we'll bring it up on the show. What was your experience with the the trainer client event that we held here at my >> Yeah, different. >> Yeah, it was >> very it was very we've done we were trying to talk uh about u we were guesstimating how many of those events that we've done now. So, what we've done in the past is we've had live events where we've invited fans and then we do like a live Q&A and we get to meet people >> and we've done trainer live events and all. So, I I was thinking of like all of it because it's kind of was a blend of a little bit of both and so you know we've done a lot a lot of those >> more than 12. >> Oh, >> I would guess. Yeah. 15 to 20. >> Yeah, Doug and I were like more like 15 20 of those at least. >> Okay. Um, and you it was interesting to hear, uh, I always like to hear Katrina's perspective, uh, because she has a lot to do with the planning and the organizing and making sure that all follows through. And so, uh, and, you know, she's pretty blunt when it comes to stuff like that. And a lot of times I'm in it and so I don't I don't see from her perspective of watching it and and so she always will tell me what the event's like afterwards. And I couldn't get her I I felt it was my favorite. Right. too. I was like, that was my favorite by far. >> I like them all, by the way. I love them all. This is my favorite one. >> I I felt that the same thing. And I think what what we all felt was very similar. And what I thought was interesting was she was like, oh, it was really good, but you know, I don't, you know, it was different. And I'm like, well, what do you mean by that? And I kept pulling to like get what she meant for that. And she she had a hard time describing it. The best way I think that she did describe it that aligned with probably why I think I loved it and liked it so much was in the past those those events are very much so centered around us >> and uh exactly >> and this event um was didn't feel center even though I know we do our our live thing and a lot of the pe obviously the people that are all there are clients of ours fans of the show and stuff um it really highlighted our team >> and the client success stories and it was emot emotal. It was about them and their trainers. >> Yeah. And so, uh, which for me and you guys, which, uh, you know, the best example or analogy I could give was like being like a proud father >> like it's your kid growing up. >> Yeah. And so, which which made me connect why she, you know, she's my wife and she's like, you know, she loves the team, but it's like team. Yeah. It's Yeah. She's team Adam, S, and Justin, you know, Doug. She's like excited to see that cuz to her that's like like the trainers like it's less where for us it's not like their kids like like for us. >> Mhm. >> And so I get why it wasn't maybe her favorite because of for those reasons but I'm like that's the exact reason why it was my favorite. >> I met so many people. So these were clients of our coaches and trainers and we've only had a training department for about two years. >> We had a hundred people show up from all over the place. We had someone drive from where did they drive from? Uh Minnesota. >> Minnesota. Yeah. We had a couple drive from Minnesota. >> It was Delaware when he flew in and um meeting these people and they're all they've all been listening to show for five plus years, most of them. >> But to hear them talk about their coaches. Yeah. >> Every single one I met >> would bring up their coach and talk about their coach. >> Yeah. >> And it was just it was incredible. >> They talked about the coaches. They talked about the culture and getting the opportunity to be in the studio and meet from top to bottom the staff and just the the feel. So that I I mean all of that for me was like m I mean one of the things that uh we've talked a little bit on air about this uh >> th this business has always been here. I mean probably from uh year two, right? Maybe not year one did we have a a big trainer business on our hands but by year two uh we could have been training clients right whether it started with us and then eventually trainers that business was always there >> and we were really reluctant uh to do it for a really long time and mainly because uh we were [clears throat] very protective of building the brand. It was we were very protective of uh our name like hey we worked really hard to create this p podcast this network these people um handing it over to trainers to then go represent us is that's a that's a a massive overtake and >> it's a huge responsibility. Yeah, huge responsibility >> and to see uh to see it unfold and for it to impact the people. I mean, I couldn't ask for a a >> listen >> better response. >> Listen, we were trainers for for for I was a trainer for almost 20 years before doing this and um I know the impact that a good trainer will have on a person. First of all, nothing come nothing touches that. There is nothing that will impact a person more intimately um and effectively uh than a good coach. The same is true for a bad coach. >> Yeah. >> A bad coach will t can take somebody and get them to the point where they'll never try again. >> Yeah. They'll turn off fit. They'll be turned off for Yeah. forever. >> Forever. The hardest people to to to to um to adopt a healthy and fit lifestyle in the right way. Right. in the right way. The hard one of the hardest people to to take and do that with is someone that has had a bad experience with a coach. >> When someone's had a really bad experience with a coach, they're closed. They're shut off. They don't even try, let alone [snorts] uh you know, now they're kind of trying and it takes a while to rebuild that trust. And so that's a huge responsibility. And if you're going to work for us, first off, it ain't easy. >> Yeah. >> Trying to get a job here, good luck. Uh but if you do pass through the trials and tribulations that we'll put you through, it's because you're special and then you're held to a very high standard. Like God forbid you're a trainer and you represent us in the wrong way. >> Yeah. >> Um so it's like it took us a long time to get to the point where we felt like we could do it. That's why >> Yeah, it was crazy. It it it definitely got me a bit um just seeing how our culture has really grown and and it's like a total representation of us to the point where it actually inspired me to make a few calls on my way home. Like I called some old clients that I hadn't talked to in like 10 years. >> I called you. Yeah. I was like, "Oh, hey Tom. What's up? I miss you." It was it Yeah. [laughter] I just really to bring them in like now that we have like something established like this I'm like yeah this this is something that I would like put my stamp on. It's like you know this is a good representation of like you know what I tried way back in the day to create but now it's at such a you know a level that um it's it's just awesome to see and I want them to be a part of it. >> I I so every time we do these events there's always emotional moments um and this one was definitely chalk full of them. Yeah, >> there was this one young woman who, and I won't say too much because I don't want, you know, reveal who she is, but she's working with one of our trainers, and one of our trainers asked me if I could hop on a coaching call with her. And this young woman had had um has had a history of eating disorders and stuff leading up to, you know, working with one of our coaches. And the reason why she decided to hire one of our coaches was at her young age, uh, and this is a young woman, uh, her doctor told her she had osteopenia, almost osteoporosis. [laughter] This was a result of her, you know, starving herself. uh you know on and off over years which is just a common uh symptom of that kind of eating disorder. So I got on the call uh we were talking and um you know one of the things I told her was throw your scale away and I literally told her I want you I want to see it and I want you to go throw it away right now and really scary for her and you know she and it was you know kind of was a tipping point and she's working with one of our best coaches. Anyway, she was here. So that was probably I don't know how long ago it was four months ago that I had gotten on that call. Anyway, she was here. I kind of forgot about the call. Uh, I mean, she's, you know, shaking my hand and we're talking and it starts to dawn on me who it is. Her fiance was there and he's like, "Dude," he goes, "Um, she went to the doctor and she had a bone scan and the bone scan showed that her bone mass is moving in the positive direction." >> I know who you're talking about. I didn't even recognize her. >> So, I'm talking to her as she's with her fiance. >> Yeah. >> And we're we're she's saying hi and kind of like introducing herself and she's introducing herself as if I didn't know who she was. And I probably responded like I didn't know who it was. And we were talking for a minute and then I saw her uh name tag >> and I went, >> "Oh my god, I know who I know you." It was totally did not pick up on it cuz I didn't recognize her. She looks so good. >> So, and what's crazy about this, first of all, her bone mass is going in the right direction. So, she's going to be out of uh you know, the danger zone here soon. But the the thing that she was telling me was how shocked her doctors were. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And how when they told her uh that she had when you're told you have osteopenia or osteoporosis, it's almost like they're they're telling you about a terminal >> or a non-reversible >> you for like negative. >> We talked about this. We talked about this the other day. It's like >> it's like, hey, you got this thing. >> They talk about arthritis and bcitis the same way. I feel like when they tell patients that they tell patients as if it's like a life sentence. >> Yeah. It's like you caught this disease you got forever. It's like what? Well, what's crazy is that us, you know, and this is the conversation we had, and they were very grateful, and we're all getting choked up, but I was like, you know, what's crazy is that uh except for rare uh situations, uh bone weakening it, you could it's the most it's one of the most predictable things you could reverse. >> Yep. >> It's as predictable as getting stronger. Yeah. >> Like if I can get you stronger, >> build muscle, you build bone. >> Yeah. We could build your bone. And nobody communicates it that way. And it's weird. It's wild to me. >> Totally. I mean, I imagine it's because of how rare it is. No, I think what it is, Adam, I think there's two reasons why. One, uh, doctors have very little coaching on exercise and nutrition. They they almost have no coaching on those things. Yeah. >> Two, >> the way the system works is look, getting someone to change their diet and exercise is not a convers. It's not like I don't just talk to someone for 15 minutes and go do it. >> Yeah. >> You got to coach them through. This isn't easy. Doctors don't have that opportunity. And I think that their experience is when I tell my clients to change a lifestyle thing, nobody does it. Yeah. >> So, I'm just going to give them medication. >> Well, that's my that's my point by it's rare. I mean, historically speaking, it's a little bit different now. I mean, uh, we're now getting to a place where people that are in their 60s and 70s, uh, fitness was a little more popular in their 30s and 40s. >> U, but when we were 20 and those people were in their 60s and 70s, like fitness, lifting weights was just not a no >> lifting weights, eating high protein. And so when doctors would get somebody typically in advanced age that had these, they would just they're not going to change. >> How many clients did you have that would would hire you in their 60s and then they tell you their doctor told them not to do any strength training? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Don't lift anything heavy. Don't do this. >> Don't do any strength training. And I'd be like, uh, can I get on the phone back? >> Can I talk to your doctor? I had so many conversations with doctors uh because you had to get, you know, doctor's clearance. And I'd get on the phone and I would like explain to them what we're doing and I'm just taking her through range of motion. It's going to be very easy. The idea is to get her a little stronger. Well, nothing over 10 pounds. Well, you know, that's relative to the person's strength. We have this conversation and I'd win them over uh eventually. Uh but it was just it was wild to me that they tell them don't don't lift weight. It's not a good idea. >> So, that's where I think it is. I think I think it is. It's just it's rare to see that that case. You know, speaking of stuff like that where you get where you get kind of a sentence, uh, you know, cholesterol and lipids, I got to say this, >> you can effectively all now and there are cases where you're not going to do a lot. Okay? But in in many cases, there are things you could take that are natural that will positively affect your uh cholesterol and lipid numbers. There are all there are natural things you could take. Some are very strong, some not as strong. dose dose product has clinical data support showing that it helps that it works. >> And I wonder how many people know that when they get their blood test and their numbers come back not so good. Yeah. >> I wonder how many how many of them know >> they could take uh something over the counter that's natural and healthy that's not a >> a medicine uh that'll actually show some improve. >> My buddy Lord his remember I I brought him up maybe a couple months ago. >> He Oh, he started taking it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right away. right away took it and he was a he also made some dietary changes too. So I mean I can't just be like oh this just magically did it. >> Yes. >> Um you know he he backed off uh the amount of red meat that he was eating and just try to switch it up for a little bit leaner cuts between that and taking that. I think it was >> What is the stud what is their study? Because they have they have actual clinical data. Yeah. Read that to me, Doug. Is that 95? >> Yeah, this one right here. Um let's see. So 95% of participants reported a positive impact on LDL levels. >> So that's 95%. Yeah. >> And so it's like almost 90% on triglyceride levels. Yeah. >> And and so and all the ingredient read those ingredients. >> It's like fruit and like so what what are all the things that are in it? >> So they have these are healthy um compounds. None of these act like a statin and and I'm going to tell you why I said that in just a second, but give me the give me the ingredients there, Doug. >> Yeah. So, it's uh I not sure how you pronounce this. Amla, amla fruit extract, enositol, pomegranate fruit, organic ginger root, and uh organic turmeric, uh co-enzyme, co-enzyme Q10, lycopine, black pepper, fruit extract. >> Yeah. So, those are all good for you. Yeah, >> they're all good for you. They're all anti-inflammatory. They're all going to give you health benefits. Uh, and now the reason why I said none of those are a statin is because there is a like blockbuster big guns over thecounter natural compound you can take that will for sure >> lower your cholesterols because it's a natural statin. It's actually what red yeast rice extract. >> Yeah, >> that's actually where they got the the um that's where they figured out how to create statins. >> Now, why why why wouldn't you use that in combination or why wouldn't you add that to this? So statins have their own potential uh side effects. So statin literally >> even a natural one. >> Yeah. It's still a statin. It ain't going to be as powerful as the pharmaceutical stuff. >> Yeah. >> But it's still it's still a statin. And what statins do is they essentially tell your liver to make less. >> Now that process of making cholesterol though has other there's other benefits to it that you might need. So, one of the one of the the potential side effects of a statin is like muscle weakening, >> brain fog, >> you know, um because you need to produce cholesterol. So, that's why I leave that one for like, okay, you need the bigger gun. You could before you go to pharmaceutical, you could take red yeast rice extract and see what happens there. But it reliably, >> so that's probably why they wouldn't put that in there for that reason. Oh, interesting. There's two more ingredients I didn't mention. It's nascin and folate. >> Yeah. Oh, it's got nasin in it, huh? >> Oh, no was the old school way of lowering cholesterol. Did you know that? I didn't know that >> they would give you a crap ton of nasin till you'd flush like you'd look like a lobster. >> Heat up your skin for the first time trying >> and then throw you in a sauna. >> Both of those sweat it all out. >> I've done it before. >> You've done that? >> Oh yeah. Get that nasin flush and get in the sauna. I tell you, man. >> That I feel like that screams my head pounding with a headache. I feel like >> they use niainamide which I don't know if it causes flush. >> No, you're not going to flush from this. >> Yeah. I remember the first time I took nasin. I I read some bodybuilder talk about how I was going to do the same thing too. I mean, put some stack with it or >> bro took it. I was at work. I took it and I was like I turned sweating really red. >> Yeah. >> I look like Justin. >> Wasn't it um wasn't it? Uh after was it Whatever happened to that brand? >> Red Fuel. Red Fuel. >> Oh, is this the one you rub on your skin? >> Is it Rip? No, not Rip Fuel. The blue The blue and red bottle that was small. >> Oh, Red Line. >> Red Line. >> Oh, Red Line. >> Yeah, Red Line. >> Red Line used to have Niain in it. Oh my god. I forgot about the red line. Yeah, cuz that one happened to me. Are they still around? >> Yeah, you can still buy Red Line. >> I haven't seen it ain't like the old school. >> No, do the Red Line ready to drink. >> That's almost back when they had a Fedro. So, the original Red Line was gnarly, dude. It was a metal can. >> Yes, that's what I'm talking about. >> And you know what got them in trouble? It had two servings in there. >> Is that what it was? >> Yeah, cuz people would take >> Thinking it's one serving. >> I believe they had nasin in there, too. I'm almost certain they did the original one. >> Yeah. I don't know, dude. Ohimi, caffeine, beta, >> adalanine, amino acids. >> Yeah, nothing beats uh old school speed stack. >> Yeah, I know that was stack. >> Hey Doug, can you type in >> I think you could still get >> 1990s speed stack. I just want to look at it. >> I know what it was. >> I just want to get fond 200 milligrams of caffeine, 25 milligrams of ephedra. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> 25 milligrams of fedra plus >> to think that I take multiple. >> And then you know what it said? Two to three a day. Yeah, >> that's [laughter] what the bottle said, dude. >> Did it say that? >> Yes. >> Well, I would have at least two. I remember when I was trying to like, you know, really push it in in the in the gym. >> Dude, I burnt myself out. >> Definitely guilty of getting some of our staff. >> Yeah. So, fed drink caffeine. >> Uh, look at pictures. >> You're so close. >> You know what's You know, this is Okay, everybody. This is This was drugs. I just want people to understand. There it is right there on the right. >> Yeah, >> that's uh I think that's the original. >> Nothing like that like available evolution. >> Oh, that's the You're right. Yeah, that's like >> I just want people to understand this, everybody. This was drugs. >> You run through a wall. >> Our gym these were gyms that we ran and these were in the uh the refrigerator for members or whoever to use. >> They have Did they have a big lawsuit? What happened? Why did they have to pull all Oh, I remember >> people were dying. >> No, it was You know what it was? [laughter] It was No, it was a It was people. So, kids I remember kids uh baseball player I remember a baseball player >> died on the field. Yeah, I remember a baseball player died from ephedra. >> So, hydroxy cut, all those brands, they they all had to start pulling ephedra cuz did a fedra is illegal. You can't even buy ephedra. You can you can >> Yeah, you can. >> Like not black market though. >> No, no, no, no. Look at me. >> Can you cuz you you can you can >> you can't but by itself and you have to buy it. You got to go to a pharmacy and you have to get it >> Well, over it's not over the counter. >> It's a bronco dilator for asthma. >> You can't get it over the counter anymore. Uh it's kind of over the counter. So you know how you go buy pseudafed and you got to go give them the ticket. >> Yeah. They have that and it's straight up uh >> you just have to say the right things. >> No, it's just it's a bronco dilator. So it's for asthma. >> Yeah. I have asthma. >> Yeah. And you could buy it and then you could take your own you could combine it with your own caffeine and then throw So the old stack was 200 milligrams of caffeine, 25 milligrams of ephedra, 100 milligrams of aspirin. Disclaimer, Doug, >> that you don't do. [laughter] >> Yeah, you don't do that. >> I put the disclaimer up there. >> Here's the recipe. Listen, I'm gonna tell you right now, if you don't have a high tolerance and you're stupid enough to try that, cuz I'm not recommending it. If you don't have a high tolerance, >> you will feel like you're having an anxiety for like 2 and you need to have a high tolerance in order to do that. >> No, no, no. But we used to So, we used Dude, I used to have my So, we would run gyms. We used to do a morning production meeting. Morning production meeting was 9:00 am. So 9:00 am there was two production meetings. It was one at 9, another one at 4 before prime time. So and this these were the times I'd hand out the speed stacks. So I'd have my sales people come in and throw them at everybody. >> I'm curious. We >> Here we go. >> Have you ever heard of mini things? >> Yeah. That was a Fedra. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz like there there was guys on the football team take it. I did it one time like before a game. And >> were you like I breathe people's mouths were like foaming like [laughter] >> no way. >> I'm kid I'm not even joking. It was like >> we're selling these right now guys. We can't be talking. >> That's why I said disclaimer. That's why Eli's got to put the disclaimer on the video to make sure it's >> It was It was really bad. We're survivors. I wonder what was in it. I didn't even know what was in it. >> Many fins were sold uh for truck drivers at gas stations. [laughter] >> So this this was how this is what >> checks out. >> This was before truck drivers would go straight. I don't remember those. >> Yeah, >> mini things. Yeah, they're just little templates. >> I don't know. Somebody on the football team was passing those around. >> Yeah. >> I mean, like I said, that's 04. I'm already taking speed sacks. I didn't need that. >> Yeah, that's that's that's for babies. >> Yep. [laughter] >> For mini guys. >> If you're mini, >> you know, bodybuilders are always on the cutting edge of what willies. >> They are. Yeah. >> Well, I have a buddy. >> I've talked about this before on the show. I just got to bring it up again. >> The dynamite. I have a buddy who so so a long time ago >> in a dynamite manufacturing this is how this got discovered. There was a dynamite I don't remember where it was. There was a dynopite manu dynamite manufacturing facility and workers uh who were handling the stuff were just sweating and losing weight like crazy. Okay. And so somebody's like what is going on with what they're doing? Anyway, there's a compound >> in the dynamite [snorts] making this. It's called DNP Doug. Again, Google Google DNP for fat loss. >> It's dynamite. >> And so what it it's a it's a very >> it's like cooks your insides. >> It's a powerful, you know what it is? It's a powerful mitochondrial uncoupler. So basically what it does is it makes your your your mitochondria extremely inefficient with energy. >> Wow. >> So it's just burning energy. >> Goes crazy like crazy. >> Or also known as like slowly killing you from the inside out. >> Yeah. So it's a highly toxic [laughter] industrial chemical from the inside >> that is extremely dangerous and unfit for human consumption. All of which is very enticing to bodybuilders. [laughter] Like, oh, really? Like, it's dangerous, >> but it doesn't kill you, right? >> Yeah. Doug, look up the history of DMP is for fat loss. So, uh, there was a book that was written in the n, I want to say the 1990s, uh, by Dan Dukane. >> And he talked about it. >> Yeah, he was the first one to bring it up. >> Ah, >> so Dan Dukane was this guy who um, uh, wrote about experimental stuff, the craziest things, >> steroid Bible guy. I don't know if it was a steroid bible that he wrote, but it was a book that he wrote and he wrote about DMP, right? So anyway, >> I have we have a buddy. We all know who this guy is. I asked him, I'm like, "Did you ever try?" He goes, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, [laughter] dude." He said he took it and he sat in his room and just he sweat like crazy. He said it was like like the sheets would turn yellow, >> dude. No. >> From all the sweat. >> And he said you couldn't see the fat loss cuz you'd hold a little water. And he goes, "And you'd work out and you'd have no energy." Because of course your mitochondrial uncoupler, you have no energy left because your body's just burning it off. He's like, "Your workouts would suck." He goes, "Then you'd come off of it and you would just be >> shredded." Like you might die, but you'll be jacked [laughter] on your way there. >> And I'm like, "Did you do you ever I'm like, are you ever worried about dying?" >> All for all for a plastic trophy. >> All for [laughter] the coveted all for third place >> trophy. What are you doing, bro? I hope he's listening right now. I love him, too. Yeah, the idea that you're going to you know what it is too is that I think of course it's the the trophy is is I guess somewhat but it's this idea that once you do that you can you can build this business. So many so many people in the space I remember >> like [snorts] that was like goal one go you know win and >> get the magazine cover. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then you then you make all this money and it was like no you don't. It doesn't work that way. Hey, speaking of hacks, I got to share this is real fast. Hilarious hack that my wife did. So, she, you know, we homeschool our kids, our two kids, our [snorts] two little ones. And that could be a bit difficult, right? Getting them organized and stuff. On top of it, during the day, she has workouts that she wants to do and it could be difficult without using the TV to get the kids to do something so she could go work out type of deal. Sometimes we're out there with her, but that makes her workouts, >> you know, broken or whatever. So, she's messages me. She's like, "Dude, I have the best. This is like the most amazing hack." I'm like, "What'd you do?" >> She goes, "When I give the kids an assignment, >> I'll tell like we'll tell our our, you know, our 5-year-old, >> every time you complete a sentence, mom has to do 10 lunges." >> And so, he's super motivated to get mom [laughter] to do exercises. >> Meanwhile, she gets her workout. >> So, [laughter] the kids are doing their homework. What next, mom? Oh, I got to do Rose. >> That's pretty smart. >> She's in between every Hulk pancakes. think she's doing her >> Katrina figured something out a while. I don't know where she got it. I should ask her who she got it from. Uh like you know there's times when when he's off for a week or whatever and she's still at home and she's got calls and stuff like that to make and same same thing doesn't want to put them on TV or stuff like that. And so >> what works really well is and she'll know like obviously this is one of those days she's like I've got backtoback calls for like three hours and I've got him home. What do I do? And so she'll plan ahead of time and that morning she'll set up like seven stations and they're timed and so it's like build a puzzle here or you know cut out this thing and do this and so because it's like timed in their stations organized. >> Yeah. And organized there's like it's almost gifies it a little bit and so that's brilliant. >> It is brilliant. It works so good. >> So a timer goes off move to the next station. >> Yes. Yeah. And he gets excited about it. Like he can't he's brilliant. Yeah. can't wait to see what the stations are and >> Oh, I got to share that with Jessica. >> And you know, she makes some of them fun and some of them are school related and so like so it's like and she and she sets it all up like that. >> Yeah. Cuz all that requires is you you set up the stations. >> Oh, that's brilliant. >> I love that. >> Uhhuh. And and that and something about them like having a certain time of doing each one and then the anticipation of the next one and all that. >> That's so cool. That's so cool. >> I don't know. >> All right. One more thing I got to share with you guys. I was reading some cool studies on um uh some cool data on forgiveness and how that affects uh our own health. >> Oh yeah. >> And our own psyche. Uh so obviously for forgiveness is um this is a big theme uh in the Christian faith. It's a massive it's like the core theme. >> But I looked up the science around it because I've read this before, but I said, "Let me pull up the data. what does the data actually show on um on forgiveness versus unforgiveness? And it's wild. >> It's wild. Not forgiving people uh is essentially you're trying to kill yourself. Uh and through that process, you you think you're hurting someone else. >> What it does to the body is it increases blood pressure, heart rate. >> It has uh terrible effects on uh on cognition. the increased risk of illness goes chronic illness goes through the roof. >> Uh it's literally one of the most unhealthy things you could do for yourself. It also is connected to other unhealthy behaviors. So when you're holding a grudge inside >> or unforgiveness inside, it leads to more substance abuse. It leads to more >> toxic ooze, >> more, you know, rage. It leads to less uh a lowered ability to empathize and love the people that you want to actually love. Yeah. >> And empathize. And then forgiveness is so healing. >> It's so healing for people um across the board. >> It's wild. >> Do you believe it's a skill? >> I believe Well, you want to ask know what I really think? So >> practice. >> I think in a secular sense. >> Well, that would make it a skill. >> Exactly. >> I think in a secular sense, true forgiveness for the hardest things. Because we could say forgive. I could say, "Oh, the guy >> I was gonna I'm setting you up for that because that's the next thing is that you know how many people say they do but then still are harboring." >> Here's the deal. You cut me off in traffic. You stole my tennis shoes. You know, I could I could without a thing. >> I could I could like I could in a secular way try to forgive you. Oh, he was in a hurry. Oh, they're having a tough time, you know. Oh, they didn't mean it. You know, I could do that. But some things impossible. Well, now the world of everything like reinforcing your own bias and like your own, you know, thought process, you know, in social media, you don't see any forgiveness content. >> It's Well, I think zero. >> Well, what I was going to say is I don't know if it's possible outside of a strong uh spiritual practice. I don't think so. Like, no. >> In the Christian faith, >> it's not promoted. the Christian faith, a big part of the faith is you realize quite strongly and the longer you do this, the more you realize >> just how uh uh how much you don't deserve >> Yeah. >> uh his grace and his forgiveness. And the more you realize that, the easier it is for you to extend it to someone else. I don't see how that's possible without that. Honestly, it's like somebody really does something bad to me or my kids. >> Yeah. >> Without that, impossible. How would >> a physical ailment like you carry as a result of that? It's really interesting. >> I know. That's why. >> Yeah. I It' be interesting to hear I'd love to hear uh Katrina's perspective because it's one of the things I admire uh with her like she's just has this and what I see from the outside perspective. So again, it would be interesting to hear it from her words is uh part of that process of being I think being good at it is before you even have to forgive is actually reframing the situation that has happened to you and and and looking at it from a different perspective. In other words, person cut you off or did a thing to you or used something more egregious, did something to your family immediately looking at the uh potential positive or potential like like maybe they didn't mean for to do that like she has this incredible gift to like defer right away to like they probably you probably under you interpreted that the wrong way. I'm sure they meant it from this way. She has this ab and then even if it is >> like spiteful mean all the things >> has this ability to let go of it really quick. >> It's powerful. Yeah. I try to do as much as possible with um like traffic where you know something will happen and and uh you're like well it probably saved me from a car crash or it saved me from something else that was going to like you know disrupt my entire life. So, I get all that and I I I understand all that, but like you then you meet someone who's like, "This person uh sexually abused me my whole childhood." >> Yeah, that's >> okay. How >> How do you forgive that? Yeah. >> Oh, look at the positives. >> No, no, no. It would look like this. Like, man, I bet that person was really hurt in as a child. >> I know that's what they say. I know that's what they say. >> No, I'm telling you what I see. I watch it. I watch it in real time happen. The woman does it. And and and again, so what I don't know is like I it would be interesting if she >> classifies that as a skill or to your point that it has a higher faith power thing that it's more connected to. But nonetheless, >> because there has to be something transcendent because it's something that she is far better at than I am and I try and and and emulate because it's like it it truly at least I see it kind of like a skill. It's like, man, it is difficult in those exact moments when it's happening to you or when you think cuz right away your mind goes to evil, awful, bad versus empathy where she goes, which is man, that person must have been so hurt or damaged or what? And so, >> yeah, I get that. I just God like I could see how that would be so uh almost impos I think it would be impossible for me if someone did something to one of my kids without the transcendent. No way I'd be able to. There's no way no way would I be a I would I mean could I let go of like trying to hurt that other person maybe. Could I let go of like feeling uh a grudge towards them? I don't think so. I really don't without the transcendent. Now when I have, you know, God in mind >> and I think of his grace, >> uh then I think I can't because I know and like I said, the more I follow, the more I realize like I don't deserve an ounce of any of that. Uh but anyway, it's really interesting when you look at just the even if you don't have any, you know, faith in any higher power or whatever, >> if you just look at the data, it is one of the most poisonous things you could do. >> Well, that you where I know where you were going with the that cuz I'm I'm familiar with it. Which my point of bringing Katrina up is like I just swear that's why she never gets sick. She's so healthy. She's just always like positive. Like it's I see front row seat of like somebody who probably the the person I know that does that better than anybody I know >> and her health, her mindset, her attitude like is a reflection of that. I mean probably why she can put up with me is [laughter] >> Oh yeah, that's true. >> I know you had a question is like I don't know how. >> Have you guys ever watched the movie? I know the answer is no, but I'll just ask anyway just in case. Have you guys ever watched Lay Miz Robs the the movie/musical? >> No. [laughter] >> Uh, no. >> You guys know the story? >> I have to admit though, >> you guys know the story. It's a classic story. >> No. >> Okay. There's a scene in there. It's a really good uh It's a really really good um story. It's an old story. Okay. But there's a scene in there where this man >> gets taken in by a priest. He he needs a place to stay. He's a poor man. Whatever. the guy, the priest takes him in and this man who lived on the streets sees like this goldplated or gold like cutlery and stuff. And so when the priest goes to sleep who tried to help him and feed him, he's like, "I'm going to steal some of this." He takes some of it, runs off, gets caught by a police officer. Police officer's like, "Where'd you get this?" And he's like, "Oh, he gave it to me. We'll see about that." Takes him back to the priest and he goes, "This man." And of course, the priest is like, "Oh, man. I I housed you. I fed you. now you stole from me. And he goes, "This man," he says, "you gave this to him. Is that really what happened?" And the priest goes, "Yeah, in fact, there's more I need to give him." Gives him more stuff, more gold. Sends this guy off on his way. He's so transformed by this. This is part of the story. He's so transformed by this act of grace by this priest that he turns in, he becomes this really great man that helps all these other people. That's part of the story. So, >> yeah, you guys should watch it. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's good. Wasn't main. Who's the main actor? Isn't there Isn't there a big actor in that one? Uh Jackman, right? Okay, that's what I'm talking. Okay, maybe I will >> try to pretend I didn't see that movie. [laughter] >> Honestly, I didn't see it, but I do know who was in it. It's a good movie. I did. Yeah. Yeah. Play, dude. I've seen you cried. >> I've seen more musicals than I'd like to admit. I'm going to be honest. [laughter] >> It's not It's not one of my like things I'd like to Is him? Is that why? >> Uh yeah. >> Or you just quietly watch them on your own? >> I I get invited. Um, I I used to have a client that was like, you know, big in the opera and and so she gave me tickets to like I en I don't know, dude. I appreciate art in general. So any form of it, I'm like I'm in. >> I people I mean I think the last time I did something like that, you were just like, "Wow, I can't believe you did that." I'm like I If you're talented in something, it's interesting to me. Especially like you're really talented in that thing. Like doesn't even need to be a thing I'm really into. I think watching people do their craft. >> Yeah. At a very high level. I can get me interested. That's for sure. >> ButcherBox is a great company that sends grass-fed meat, heritage pork, crepe free chicken, wild caught fish to your door. If you like protein and you want it to be healthy and you like to save money, go with ButcherBox. Their quality is topnotch. I only almost eat my meat from ButcherBox because it's got a better fatty acid profile. Grass-fed beef has a better fatty acid profile than the conventional stuff. Heritage pork just tastes a lot better. Everything's raised humanely. Look, you like salmon, you want the omega-3s, go with wildcaugh, not farmed. This is what you're going to get for ButcherBox. And if you go through our link, butcherbox.com/mpump, check it out. Here's what you get. Free ribe eyes, New York strip steaks, or filet minions in every order included for free for a year. Plus, you get $20 off your first box. Again, it's butcherbox.com/mindpump. Here comes the show. This segment of the podcast is brought to you by Mindpump Fitness Coaching. This is the number one course that teaches trainers and coaches how to build sustainable sixf figureure plus businesses and careers in fitness. Look, it's roundt based. So you can hear Adam, Justin, and myself teaching you how to build a better business, get more leads, close more deals, close bigger deals, and be more effective trainers. By the way, our course is nationally recognized. In fact, it gives you 1.9 CEUs with or for your NASM certification. Find out more at mindpunfitnesscoaching.com. >> Our first caller is Kaylee from Arizona. >> Hi, Kayleie. Hi, Kaylee. >> Hello. >> Hello. How you guys doing? >> Good. >> Good. How can we help you? >> Good. Uh, okay. So, I'm just gonna, like everybody else, I'm going to read my question. So, I'm getting married November 11th, and my biggest goal is to look and feel my absolute best without sacrificing my health. I'm 32 and a half Hashimoto's. I recently started working with Vabella to optimize my thyroid and address my low vitamin D. I grew up playing softball and volleyball. So I've always had like a fairly muscular lower body. Uh for the last couple of years I've been lifting five days a week, three upper, two lower. But since listening to the podcast, I started doing map symmetry. So I'm on week three phase two. And then I was thinking about doing maps athetic. Right now I'm about 185 to 190 lbs, 32% body fat. I own a cleaning business, so I get about 10,000 to 12,000 steps a day. I'm eating 21 to 2400 calories, about 170 grams of protein. Uh, so if I was your client, just want to know like what do you recommend? What do you what am I doing right, wrong? >> Yeah, [laughter] >> anything. >> No, thanks for calling in. I'm glad you're working on optimizing hormones. Um I think uh for most people MAPS aesthetic is just uh it's way too much volume especially if you have a very busy job and you're already active. Um I do [clears throat] like something like muscle mommy for you after map symmetry. How are you how's map symmetry working for you right now by the way? >> Uh it's good. I actually don't have as much difference as I kind of thought I would. Um I struggled with phase one and then phase two has been good. >> Awesome. Awesome. Okay. And what when you say you want to look your best, uh be more uh descriptive. What does that look like for you? Do you have a body fat percentage goal or >> Um I originally had a weight goal of like 170, but really the more I listen to you guys, the more I'm realizing like weight doesn't actually matter. >> Uh so I probably I don't know 25 27 I >> totally doable. >> I don't know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Totally doable. Yeah. Yeah. >> You you're going to be in you'll be in the reverse diet phase right now and trying to build before we go into a cut. >> What are your what are your strengths look like on your lifts? Like the big lifts like squat, deadlift. What are you What are you doing? >> I was afraid you'd ask me this um because the program that I've been doing they it didn't include uh like really squats and deadlifts. Uh it was a lot of like uh single leg what the heck I can't even think of what they're called. >> Lunges or deadlifts? No toe touch. >> The one that you step ups. >> Oh, step-ups. >> Step-ups. Yeah. So, I'm doing like a lot of single leg step ups and it was like 190ish. Um, and then I was doing leg press and I was like over 500 lb. >> Um, [clears throat] RDL's is like 135ish. I've been afraid to >> You're strong >> to Okay. >> Yeah. You're really strong. [laughter] You're really really strong. And if we start squatting and deadlifting, uh, this is going to be really good. You're going to you're in a good you're in a good place. >> If you're averaging about 24 to 2500 calories, I think if we can get you up to 29 >> closer to 3,000 and then cut down to, let's say, 21 22, I think you would see a nice consistent >> uh, body comp. Okay. >> But I'd want to reverse diet you before uh, bringing you down. >> Yeah, we got good time right now. You got November's wedding time. Um, I wouldn't start the cut until literally mid to late October. The last four to four to five weeks would be the cut right now would be the reverse like S's saying. So up until mid October, we we would be on a, you know, slow reverse diet because during that, if we do this correctly incrementally and getting stronger, uh, we'll probably hover around the same weight, but you'll feel leaner, tighter. >> You'll probably drop a couple percent by >> Yeah. You'll you'll lean out. You'll build you'll build muscle. And so you'll you'll see progress in the right direction as far as your physique changing. And then the final like four weeks going into the wedding would be the cut. That would be the cut with Yeah. >> Especially are you before you got on the phone with uh our partners at MP Hormones, were you already taking thyroid or were you not? >> Yes, I was. Um I've been taking it for I've had Hashimoto for 5 years. I've had hypothyroidism for 20. >> Okay. Okay. What are you taking? Synthroidid. >> So, yeah. >> Uh, no. I've been in love with thyroxine. >> Okay. Okay. >> And liiothanine. >> Okay, good. Yeah. No, this this will be great, but it's going to be reverse diet and then cut. Very straightforward. Where you will mess this up. >> Okay. >> Okay. Here's where you're going to mess this up. If [clears throat] you mess it up is you're going to do too much. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. Because if you do too much, you won't get there faster. You'll get there slower. You'll still see some results. uh your athletic background, you're strong, you probably have a high tolerance uh for training volume. Uh you haven't you're you're an athlete, so you probably got good genetics for that. >> So you you'll feel like you're getting away with it like it's working, but it's going to set you up for failure later. >> And [snorts] so what you sometimes see oftentimes see, especially this is very common for wedding goals, okay? Very common for wedding goals. people get to a particular body for their wedding and then the following six months to a year they rebound and worse than they started out. And so oftentimes that's because they just did a lot more too much uh than was necessary and it just wasn't sustainable. >> Okay. >> Okay. And maps aesthetic is a great program but it is a competitive level >> amount of volume. Um, and people when they hear that, what they think is, "Oh, competitive level volume. I'm going to get there faster." No, no, no. That means that it's not appropriate for the vast majority of people. Now, if you've been living your life like a bodybuilder for the last four years and everything's geared towards that and this is what you do, then that kind of volume might be okay. Uh, but for, you know, 90 probably 5% of people, >> it's just way too much. Muscle mommy is a decent amount of volume. Yeah. >> So, it's like moderate to high, whereas aesthetic is high to very high. >> Um, and I think muscle mommy will give you way better results. >> Okay. Yeah. Because I want like, you know, the delts and the >> Yep. >> fat ass and you know, that's [laughter] >> that in muscle mommy, I'll send that to you. >> No, I don't. >> Okay. I'll send that over to you. And then if if you want to like nail it down, if you want like, hey, I'm going to I'm going to just I want someone to coach me. We have great coaches and so that's another option. You can be like, "Hey, can you work with me up until my wedding day?" And then they'll just dial everything in through that whole process if you want some support like that. >> Okay, >> cool. >> All right. >> All right. Thank you guys. Appreciate your help. >> You got it. Thanks for calling in. We'll send that to you. >> Bye-bye. [snorts] >> Everybody always goes to the most extreme programs. >> I know. Yeah. You know what's funny? You could see when she said it, she knew it. >> She's like, "I know what you're gonna say." Yeah. I I feel like she knew. She knew. The cool part is she's strong >> and she hasn't been squatting and deadlifting. >> Uh putting her on a reverse diet, leaning into those big lifts, uh she's going to see great results just from that. >> But I'm going to I'm going to say this. This is like so common, okay? And people listening know what I'm talking about. >> You get quote unquote in shape for your wedding and then you fall way out of shape after the wedding, the following year or two >> or three. And it's because we aim so hard for this target of this day and we do way more than we can ever possibly sustain, way more than what is effective. And when we're out of it and things are settled and we're married and whatever, then we quote unquote relax and we get this massive rebound. And this is so common that I would see it with people who try to hire me for their wedding, but I would see it more often with people would hire me after their wedding. And they would say to me like, "I got in shape for my wedding. That was two years ago. Then they gain 30 pounds and uh and then we're working through this process. >> Our next caller is Olivia from Toronto. >> Olivia, >> how you doing? Olivia, >> what's happening? >> Good. How are you? >> Good. >> Good. How can we help you? >> Okay, so I wrote it out so I stay on track. So I'm just going to read it for you guys. >> Do it. >> So I've been consistently training for about seven years and I've worked with coaches for the last four. I spent two years with one coach before switching to another who has experience coaching Olympic athletes. I've been very committed over the years. I completed 75 hard, have tracked my nutrition diligently, and have followed plans at both extremes. At one point, I was essentially in contest prep conditions with carbs down in the double digits and 60 minutes of cardio 6 days a week. On the other end, I've also spent long periods reverse dieting and bringing up cal calories substantially before slowly cutting again. Despite trying multiple approaches with experienced coaches, I've never been able to achieve the level of leanness that I feel like I should be able to reach. I'm currently training to become a firefighter while working full-time as a 911 dispatcher. So, I have a fairly stressful lifestyle and shift work to balance. Um, my biggest issue right now that I'm facing is that I'm completely burnt out with training. I used to love being in the gym and had to force myself to take rest days, but now it's the complete opposite where I feel like I have to force myself to go almost every workout and I don't enjoy it anymore. And I'm hoping that you can help me figure out why I seem so resistant to leaning out despite years of structured training and nutrition and how to regain my enjoyment with training without sacrificing my firefighting performance goals. And if it's primarily a programming issue, a recovery issue, a stress issue, or if something bigger that I'm missing. >> Olivia recovery. Thanks for calling in. >> Uh I'm sorry you're in this place that really sucks. This is Sounds like it was a passion of yours and now you're like, "Hey, what's going on?" >> Yeah. >> Why do you think Why do you think you feel so burnt out? >> I think I feel burnt out because I spent so long being so accurate with tracking, didn't miss any workouts, like would skip outings to go to the gym. Um and that's just like never got to the results that I thought I was going to get to. So, I feel like it just burnt me out where I felt like, oh, if I just don't put all this time and effort into it, I look the same anyways. >> So, it just like completely turned me off from going. And now I'm like in the biggest gym rut that I've ever been in. Like, usually it passes after a few weeks, but it's been like months where I'm like, I don't even care to go to the gym anymore. >> Yeah. I'm going to ask you a crazy sounding question, but you have to pick one. Okay. >> Okay. [laughter] >> Okay. Would what would you rather have a love and passion uh for fitness and nutrition that feels relaxed, comfortable, and one that you can sustain or the ultimate goal of how you want to look? >> I feel like I I don't know because I've never been to the point of being like looking how I want to look. So, I don't know what mentality I have when it comes to that. But I definitely know that I do miss having the passion for the gym and being in the gym. Yeah. Like I I definitely feel the mental switch of like not being as passionate and I definitely miss that. So I would say based on what I do know, >> I would go with regaining my passion for the gym. >> Good. It was a trick question. [laughter] >> The answer you just gave is going to give you what you want. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you're going to have to break free a little bit of your old ways, that old friend that you have, the comfort you find in beating yourself up >> and how you separate yourself from your peers, being able to outwork them and out, you know, train anybody and get after it. >> And you're really young. >> Uh, but your your body is telling you it's burnt. And if you keep doing the cycle of pushing yourself that you've done since you were a kid, >> um you're going to get some real bad hormone issues as you get into your late 20s and your mid-30s. And it's going to be very difficult uh to repair. This is actually a good sign. This a good sign that you feel burnt out because your body is is is stopping you from getting to that place. And by the way, your body will want to hold on to body fat. >> Yeah. >> When you're doing that, it's just going to want to hold on to it. Do you know why your body wants to do that? No, >> because it's a protective mechanism. [clears throat] >> You need it. You need your fertility. >> You need those things. And so what we got to do is a totally different approach. >> I I I even want to I want to [clears throat] push back a little bit too on the you you said you've been from like each extreme as far as like, you know, trying to get shredded 12,200 calories, stairmaster >> training like crazy, and then you've been on the other extreme reverse dieting. And when you were reverse dieting, what did your training look like? >> Um, uh, so I my best reverse I would say was when I switched coaches to the one that has like Olympic clients and he completely pulled my cardio and I think like my weight just fell off so quick. Um, so I wasn't really doing much cardio, just like walks and stuff. Um, but nothing intense. And then like training was the same like maybe four days a week during my reverse. >> Is your coach mainly an exercise coach? Yes. Well, like bodybuilding coach, but I stopped working with him a couple months ago just because I've been in such a rut, but yeah, he's a bodybuilding coach. >> Okay. Okay. Um because I'd love to have you work with one of our coaches. Yeah. >> And fix this problem. >> Um and they can help you with workout programming as well. >> Yeah. >> We got to get that passion back. We got to get your body back on track, >> feeling good, hormones balanced, dopamine, serotonin back where they need to be. so that you fall back in love with this and what it'll feel like. I'm just going to encourage you, Olivia, >> when you do this right compared to what you've done in the past, here's what it's going to feel like. Okay, this is what you're going to say to yourself. How is this working? I feel I feel like I'm barely doing anything. >> It's easy almost. >> What is going on? It feels like my body just wants to respond. I'm not even doing anything even though you are. But compared to what you've done in the past, it's going to feel like that because you've taken a very hard approach in the past, which was just uh ineffective and and really you got away with it for a while because probably your tenacity and your age go >> and you probably have good u some good athletic genetics. >> Uh but at some point it just runs out and that's why you're in this place right now. But with good coaching, >> it'll probably take uh you said you've been in about a few months of feeling like this. Yeah, it's definitely been probably like six months that I've been feeling like this. >> It's going to probably take about six to nine months uh of changing things up to get you feeling like you're on fire again. >> Yeah. >> Okay. U and that will look like some reverse dieting. It'll look like uh strength training. That's going to be less volume than you're used to. >> It's going to look like you need to be patient. What you're going to fight, Olivia, is when you start to feel that spark come back because it the spark will start to come back sooner than six months or nine months. with if we do this right, you'll feel that within 30 days. You'll be like, "Oh my god, I feel like I want to go to the gym again." >> Fight the urge to go crazy in the gym. [laughter] Like, fight the urge to do your old stuff again. >> Well, this is why you have the coach. I mean, this is where the coach will will talk you from from doing that. Because if you just set if we just set you on your way, this this is what the pattern that happens is >> we you start to feel that motivation and then all a sudden you go back into a lot of the other behaviors that that got us here in the first place. >> That's right. >> So, your coach will walk you through this. And just so you know, Olivia, because you're young, you've been doing this for a while, which I love. One of my favorite things to do is get my hands on somebody who's your age, who's been doing this for a while, because it's just we can really change the trajectory in a radical way, you know, at 23 versus when I get someone at 43. Um, so we could really radically change this. And what this will look like >> for the rest of your life is probably 85% of the time you're cruising, 15% of the time you're sprinting. Now, what you've probably done most of your life is 85% sprinting, 15% cruising because you're forced to. >> So, we're going to flip that on its head. And that's what it's always going to look like. And you'll have the best body and the best relationship with this that you could ever imagine. >> But this is >> So, you'd think I was just going too hard on the gas, which is why my body wasn't responding. >> 100%. For sure. >> 100%. >> There's There's never Okay. uh someone your height and where you're at and your background should never see 1,200 calories. 75 hard is completely inappropriate. 60 minutes of cardio completely inappropriate. Like I mean there's so many things that are just >> just so you know like uh you know you could go hardcore crazy training, crazy cardio, crazy strength training, but you're doing it for like a block of like six weeks, eight weeks. >> Yeah. >> This isn't where you're living. >> Yeah. So what you what you've probably done is you've lived there >> for as long as you can until your body forces you to slow down. >> Yeah. >> And by that point you you've dug such a deep hole that you got to really come out of it and it feels like a nightmare. >> The beauty of this >> you barely want to peak like that with that kind of intensity. >> The beauty of this on the other side of this is is the body you've always wanted doing a fraction. Did you see the post I just did yesterday of Katrina? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Like that's that's the difference. Like that's she was the running 10 to 15 miles plyometric like just and having and having to keep her calories low and that always kind of meant but she never had the body she wanted. She always was like I feel boxy and I don't feel like bulky and I don't like the way I look and >> it like weight training higher calorie like more appropriate change changed her hormone profile changed the shape of her body and it's like a fraction of the effort and work she has to put in. And then if you want to do a little sprint of 8 weeks or 10 weeks, you get after it and you you're able to accomplish things that you never could before. >> That's right. >> Yeah. Yeah. The problem is like I know that that discipline lives inside of me. Like I it was probably like a year that I did not go a gram off my meal plan. Like very very strict and I was very disciplined and I wasn't tempted to go off of it. Like I was enjoying what I was doing. But I feel like I've gotten to the point where I'm like I don't even want to do that anymore. But I know that that discipline lives inside me and I want to find it again. and enjoy it. >> There there's a there's a there's a line between there's a line between discipline and dysfunction. I want you to understand that >> discipline is great, but it can it can definitely cross over into dysfunction. When discipline becomes your identity, >> so you do have that gear. Obviously, you do have that discipline. We need to point it in the right direction. >> Yeah. >> And so, if we point it in this direction and and trust me, it's going to it's going to challenge your discipline because I'm telling you right now, 30 days in, you're going to be like, "Oh, hell yeah. I'm on fire. Let's go. And your coach is going to tell you, "No, don't you dare stay on this course." You be like, "I have all this energy. Like, I can do it." You're like, "No, you're going to stay where you're at." >> That's going to be You're going to have to apply your discipline in that direction. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What What do you What do you do for a living? Do you work >> 911? I'm a 911 dispatcher and I'm training to get into firefighting. >> Okay, good. This will be great. This is going to be such a good skill for you because you you know this better than than than we do but in that field that the people who are successful most successful in that field do one thing very well. They manage stress. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Because firefighters, emergency workers, shift workers, they burn out all. It's a very common thing. Burnout, injury, hormone dysfunction. The ones who can do it manage stress and recovery very well. So this is like perfect timing right before you get in there. >> We got you. >> Yeah. And then another thing I wanted to ask is so right now like in general my what my shift work looks like is five on five off. So my night shifts are 14 hours and my day shifts are 10 hours. So what I've been doing is on my working days I don't work out. I just do like active like walks or like something small. Um and then on my off days is when I'm training. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that's a good way to >> You're on the right track. You're definitely on the right track. >> Definitely on the right track. It'll be much more structured, much more individualized. What your coach is going to probably do, like if I was working with you, I have a good idea of how I'd start you, >> but then I'd monitor you and adjust uh uh on the fly, but you're on the right track. Definitely like more of you'll be you'll be able to apply more exercise stress on your days off, far less on the days where you work. Yeah. >> Um, and so you're totally on the right track. >> Okay. Okay. That's good to know. >> Yeah. Olivia, let me have somebody call you. >> Okay. Sounds good. >> And then, uh, if I got your permission, I'd like to hop on some of these calls and and say hi to you. >> Yeah. Yeah, of course. >> Let's go. >> Sounds good. >> All right. All right, Olivia. >> Thank you guys. Appreciate it. >> You got it. >> I I love when I hear uh a young 20some year old be like, "I've been doing this for years. I want to learn how to do it right." When you get your hands on somebody this age, >> Yeah. you know, the changes you can make that just change the trajectory of their life is phenomenal. And I've had a few clients like this. It's great. >> Yeah. Probably like a MAPS 15 protocol is more appropriate for her right now. >> Y >> I mean, with that type of a schedule that she, you know, >> which will be a such a hard thing for her, >> a huge shift for Oh, yeah. Go do two or two. >> It would be it'd be really beneficial though recovery. By the way, with her mentality, of course, she wants to do [laughter] >> course. Thankfully, she's super resilient right now. So, >> our next caller is Alana from New Jersey. Hi, Alana. How you doing, Alana? >> Hi, guys. Oh, this is this is surreal. [laughter] >> How can we help you? Welcome. >> Uh, I'm going to do what everybody else does. I'm going to say first, thank you for all the information. You guys are fantastic. I'm so happy I found you. And I'm just going to read directly from the question to to save time. >> Let's go. Let's get it. >> So, um, I'd like some advice on how to move forward and some explanation after a disheartening DEXA. I'm going to give you as much info as possible. Uh I'm 38, 5'4, 113 pounds. I have a history of eating disorders uh in my 20s where I was eating like 1,000 calories a day. Um and then aside from that, very restrictive eating about 1500 calories a day since I was 14. So two years ago, I started working with a coach to go through my first bulk and cut cycle. Went really well. Had my first DEXA after that, and it was 24% uh body fat even though I was four pounds heavier than when I started. So, that was that was a win. Uh, and then after my year with my coach, I stayed at maintenance and then tried another cut and got down to 20.1% body fat. And then I wanted to do a traditional bulk and cut cycle on my own. So, I bumped up my calories from 2150 maintenance to 2200. So, it wasn't enough really to be considered a bulk, but I was scared to kind of do it on my own. Um, but I did, you know, like 30 minutes a day, five days a week, split. Um, made a ton of rep and weight PRs, uh, 10k steps a day. Strength definitely increased. Uh, and all of a sudden I could do unassessed pull-ups, and I have a home gym, so I, you know, I chest press like 100 pounds because I have no one to spot me, but like I felt good about that. Good. >> Um, so, so things looked like they were going in the right direction. And then um I did a 10-we cut at 17 to 1,800 calories. Um and I hate cuts because of the the history of the eating disorders. They can be kind of triggering, but you know, I I did it. I kept my lip my lifts. They were all maintained. I bumped up the steps like two or 13 uh uh two to three,000 steps more. Um and I thought I looked great. Like like all of a sudden I had all this muscle definition. and my shoulders are bigger, you know, compared to pictures. Everything looked like it was in the right direction. And then I got another DEXA scan and it showed me that I had increased my body fat 1%. And that I'd only gained.3 L pounds of muscle mass. And I thought like, how the heck could that be possible? And I know there, you know, there's a margin for error and all that, but um, you know, and everything was, you know, protein was kept high. Uh, sleep is seven and a half hours on average. Um, and my goal was like 18 to 19% body fat. So, um, I guess I'm just asking a couple of questions, right? Um, what happened with the DEXA? Um, how can I be more, I guess, confident in reverse dieting to know when I've hit my maintenance, when I've hit a true bulk? Um, and also, what MAPS program would you suggest? cuz I don't have any of them. >> Yeah, good question. Thanks for calling in. >> What do your steps look like on a regular basis? How what's your activity level? >> Um, it's about 12 to 13,000 steps. >> Okay, that's what I would guess. Okay. >> And that's the only cardio I do. >> So, let me let's go back. You mind if I ask you some more questions? We go back a little bit. >> Yeah. >> When you worked with the coach and you did your first, you know, when you said you you were able to bump your calories, body fat at 24%, that process, that whole process, what was that experience like for you? >> It was awesome. It was especially the reverse diet that she put me on initially because I was eating 1500 calories a day and you know she was bumping me up 100 calories every week or so and I was actually watching the scale go down. It was like my my metabolism wasn't you know so suppressed anymore and it was it was really cool. >> What were the scary parts of it? >> Um it was it was the weight gain. You know I I had never been at a point in my life where I was purposefully trying to gain weight. >> Yeah. So it but so that's why I was so happy to have her because she she would talk me down from the ledge of like no no this is normal this is what we want you need to you know gain mass and that's going to mean the scale is going to go up. >> Yeah for sure now and and logically uh you know all that but let's say you tried that on your own without the coach. Do you think you would have stopped at some point? >> I guess so. I guess so because when I did try to do the bulk on my own I I went from like 2150 to 2250. It was like a 100 calorie increase. Me thinking, "Oh, that that's enough. That's going to do." And you I know now, thanks to you guys, that was not that was not enough. >> Totally. Totally. And then when you did that and you felt good, you're like, "Man, I'm strong. I got energy." What was the what what convinced you to try to cut the calories again to 1,700? >> You know, it was it was the fact that I wanted to get down to that, you know, 18 to 19% body fat. really was kind of like a a vanity metric, you know, so I thought, "Oh, like, you know, I have I have good muscle. Let me just let me just do another quick cut to get it down, but it did not pan out the way I thought." >> Yeah. No, it totally makes sense. And I I I totally get how you feel through this process. There's a disconnect uh that happens with this with people who struggle with um you know, either of fear of gaining or fear of losing. That was me. uh where there's a disconnect between your mind which is what you know what's right and also your heart which is what you feel. So it's like I know this is the right thing but oh my god this is scary and it doesn't feel right type of deal. First off I'm going to encourage you the it was it's well within the margin of error. Uh your DEXA scan was well within the margin of error. Okay. So what you probably did is you cut your calories and still maintained. So nothing happened. The only thing that happened is you ate less. Now I'm going to tell you what what could have happened. What could have happened is you continued to reverse diet and you would got better and better results. >> Yeah, >> that's what I'm doing now. >> But it's scary. >> Yeah, >> it's a scary process. Um, so I'll I'll tell you what you I think you need to do, but I'll and then I'll tell you what I think will work best for you. What you need to do is you need to stop focusing on cutting for a while. And I want you to think build build. I'm going to build my body. I'm not going to cut my body. I'm going to build my body. and it's actually going to give you what you're looking for. Your calories are, you know, 5'4 with as much as you exercise and as consistent as you are, you probably don't ever miss a workout. >> Uh you're you you're going to get your calories up in the high 2000s. >> Yep. >> Maybe even three. Right now I'm at I so since the initial email I've what I've gone from at the beginning of June 2150 to right now I'm at 2400 and I've only gained like a pound a pound and a half. >> Yeah. So through this process you're going to need to stop weighing yourself. Now I don't there's nothing wrong with weighing yourself because what you're what you're weighing a pound could be whatever could be muscle probably could be water. Uh but uh building into the body you want at your height and weight is probably going to look like a heavier weight, but you're leaner. You're leaner, you're stronger, and you look better, but you're going to be heavier on the scale. The scale probably messes you up. Uh and I would imagine you probably weigh yourself daily. How many times a day do you weigh yourself? Be honest. >> Oh, just one in the morning. >> Just one? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, every single day you weigh yourself. And that number is going to mess you up on this process. 24 is still low. I could see you getting up to like 28, 29, maybe even 3,000, maybe higher. Um, and you'll be Yeah. And you'll be really surprised uh at how you feel and how you look with that. Uh, but it's going to be a bit of a process. The one thing that the coach did with you that I think was that you mentioned that was really valuable, and I'd love your opinion on this is the talking you off the ledge through the process. Mhm. >> Yeah. >> So, if we're going to do this right, you're going to probably need to work with a coach again probably for the next six months uh or so to be able to do this properly because through this process, you're going to want to stop. You're going to get up to 25, maybe 2550, maybe 26. Okay, this is high enough to cut. Let me get back on a cut type of deal. And you're going to totally thwart uh the potential progress. So, you're you're going to be moving up for a long for a while without a single cut. meanwhile accomplishing body comp through that process. >> So what would you suggest like six months? >> It's it's we're probably looking at six to nine months of just strength and building without a single cut. >> Okay. And you think you think up upwards of 28 29? How do you know? How do you know when when the upper limit is? I mean, I don't know for sure, but based on my experience and working with people like you, your height, your size, uh I and you, like I said, you're consistent with your workouts. You take a lot of steps every single day. That's typically where we fall >> typically. So, but I don't know. Could be higher. I mean, >> there are some some young women we've worked with uh who built muscle very well doing this who got them we got them in the low to mid 3000s and they were smaller than you are. Mhm. >> That's I love I love the It's That's the thing like I I wanted to come on here and almost I hate to say it, but like get the permission that that was not too high. >> It's not. It's not. >> Let me tell you what's going to be diff. This is uh so close to home for me because this is uh your numbers are almost right in line with Karen when we first started. The hard part is going to be this. When I when I bump you 200 calories or 300 calories one week, uh you're going through your cycle, uh you see the scale, you decide to get on there after I told you not to and you see four pounds go up and on top of that you feel fluffy or you see water weight and you feel for sure we're putting body fat on and we're totally fine. And I know we're totally fine. That's going to be the hard part and that's going to happen through this process. And so preparing yourself mentally for those weeks that you'll have um is important. This is where the coach will come in really really handy is and this is where she leans on me a lot is like >> you you have a um distorted vision of yourself just like she does. Like she sees herself differently. Like she'll tell me, "Oh my god, I feel this way." I'm like, "You're crazy. I'm looking at you and you look great and we're doing great and we're fine. You're holding a little bit of water. We're on our period right now. relax. You know what I'm saying? That's the water's going to come right out in about four days and you're going to all a sudden feel way better. So relax. We're doing good. Stay the course. And so that that's the difficult part of of what but what Sal's saying easily um we could get up to 27 easily 27 2000 maybe more than that. And that'll actually drop the body fat percentage. So, what it'll probably look like is five, six more pounds on the scale and a lower body fat percentage and higher calories. And you'll love the way you you will love the way you look, but it'll take some time because again, you we and we're all guilty of this, by the way, too. I know we're sitting here talking to you, but I'm guilty of this. Like, we all pick our own bodies apart and when you look in the mirror, you can't help but look right at your flaw right away first. You don't look at the positive things that's happening. And so, it helps just to have a second pair of eyes that's reminding you like, "No, you look great. you're doing great, that's normal, and just stay the course. But yeah, it's a it's a few months down the road, but it's definitely a higher calorie place, a lot more muscle, and a lot easier, too. >> Yeah. Do you just to give you even more of an extreme example, Elena, what's your So, your body weight right now, what are you weighing right now? >> 113. >> Okay. So, you're 113. Body fat percentage is sitting right low low to mid 20s. >> Yeah, [snorts] it's probably 20 21. >> Her stats are almost identical. Correct. So, let's say you're 21% body fat right now, okay? And let's say you gained 10 lbs on the scale. So, now you're 123 and your body fat percentage is still 21%. I'm going to tell you what happened, okay? You gained muscle and you also gained some body fat. 21% of 12 of [clears throat] 123 is more pounds of body fat than 21% of 113. Does that make sense? >> Yes. So, you still gain body fat, but your body fat percentage remained the same. But here's the difference. You're heavier on the scale. You might even feel bigger in your clothes. You look great, and you've got a much faster metabolism. >> And this is tough for a lot of people because they see the scale, they feel their jeans, and they're like, "Uh, I know my body fat percentage is right around the same, but I'm heavier. I feel bigger." And they freak out. But you're crushing. You're kicking butt. So, your mentality's got to go more towards strength and muscle. You got to really make that switch. And that's what'll make this work. And it's going to set you up. What's going to set you up for good hormones, good energy, great libido, great motivation. I can eat more. I'm flexible uh with my diet. I mean, I mean, I can eat at 3,000 calories, which means I can go out on the weekend and enjoy a few things and it doesn't bother me. I don't have to like keep my hands on the steering wheel so tight. That's what it's going to feel like. But you got to be okay with and understand that the scale might look different. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think I think that was the thing that bothered me is like I I felt all of the right things, but then it said I I almost gained no muscle mass. I was like, how could that be? Like my shoulders are way bigger than they were. Like how? And I I liked the way that I looked. I was like, I don't know how that could be. >> Yeah. This is when DEXA scans can be a real pain in the ass. >> I mean, it also happens. It happens also too when you've been running too low of calorie for a very long time. I don't know if you've listened to the episode when I revealed uh Karen's first Dexus scan. That happened to us. I was so excited because she was hitting PRs. We were doing everything was supposed to happen the way and she put weight on and it was all body fat, zero muscle. Imagine me who've been doing this as long as I have coaching her. I tell her to get the Dexis scan cuz I'm excited. Oh man, did I feel it was just too soon cuz I hadn't got her her body in a place that it needed to be balanced and hormonally where it needed to go. She needed to put body fat percentage on before we started to put muscle on. I jumped the gun and had that reading too early. And so it's very possible and that what that is is your body signaling it needs more. It needed more body fat. It needs more calories. And so you can see a lot of things like in the gym positive and you can feel like they're moving positive and then you go do a DEX scan, it goes, "No, we just put body fat on right now because we need it." >> And here's the crazy thing. We we let a number tell us how we're supposed to feel. >> Yeah. >> Even though we feel good. >> So it's like, "Man, I feel great." And then you get this report card and you're like, "No, I don't feel great." It's like what? This means nothing. I feel amazing. I feel strong. I look good. >> So, um, so that's the that's the prescription. Uh, I don't think it'll I I think you're going to have a tough time doing it by yourself. >> That's fair. >> I think you I think >> hard >> I think it would be a good idea for you to work with a coach for six to nine months. Uh, and then get used to the process and then at the end of it, it won't be so hard. >> Okay. >> Okay. Can I have somebody call you? >> Yeah. >> All right. >> That'd be great. >> All right. And also, what um what maps program would you suggest? >> They're gonna customize it. >> They're gonna customize it for you. >> Yeah. >> Okay, cool. >> That's all included. And then they'll they'll they'll customize it just for you. >> Awesome. >> All right. >> Yeah, you're going to do good. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thanks for calling in. >> Of course. >> Bye. >> Recording. >> Yeah, that's that's tough. She I mean you So, so she was if she just even if she didn't go more on a reverse dive, if she just stayed at the 2250, she would have done way better. >> Yeah. I mean, the fact that they they I'm surprised the coach uh [clears throat] let her cut. I would have been >> No, he she he didn't or she didn't. When she was with the coach, it was reverse that. This is when she did it on her own. >> Oh. Oh. Cuz I was like, man, she should just kept going. Like that >> totally. That's what I would have done. >> I mean, she saw scale go or she saw the scale go down while she was increasing calories. >> She went from 2150 to 2250. That was her that was her bulk was 100 extra calories. >> I mean, this is these are these are Karen numbers. >> Yep. >> She weighs she weighs almost exact same on the scale. similar in height, uh, similar in the calorie maintenance, similar in the steps, uh, yeah, very, very, very similar. And, you know, I'm constantly trying to push Karen to the high 2,000 calories. And this is the push back I get is like, it feels like a lot, you know, and you go through that phase of >> it feels fluffy, it feels uncomfortable. Um, >> sometimes one of the best things to do with people like that, uh, is to completely take them away from body comp, completely take them away from aesthetics, and move them completely towards performance. You're going to do a powerlifting competition. >> Mhm. >> So, you just don't even think about that. That's a hard thing to break. >> The hardest part about that, though, is that that's the thing that they that they want. You know what I'm saying? So, it's like >> that's what I mean. It's like you got to we got to want something else for a little while. >> Yeah. Yeah. to to ask them to let go of the reason why they're wanting you to help them is to get to a certain place and then you go like we're going to completely not focus on that is a really tough thing. >> Totally. >> Our next caller is Joey from Tennessee. >> Joey, how you doing? What's happening buddy? >> Hey guys, how's it going? >> Good man. >> Good man. What's up big dad? >> Good. [laughter] >> Hey guys. So, sorry in advance. I got my got my hands full today. [laughter] >> No worries. I really do. Beautiful family. >> We have our have our little have our little fouryear-old and then we got a little seven-month-old here. So, uh, basically my question is, uh, how to how to how to get started, uh, how to stay consistent because of, you know, these two and then my work schedule. Uh, I try to wake up early on days that I don't work. [laughter] Hang on, baby. Hang on. And, um, it's just I'm not quite able to like I try to set my alarm for 4:30 or 5:' and every day I just I can't. It's It's hard. I I'm not an not an early morning riser and I can't >> I feel that. Yep. >> I can't get to the garage and get to the I've got a garage gym. I can't I can't get myself up and motivated to to get up and going that early in the morning even though I my work schedule is a 6 to 6 on my days off. I'm I'm ready to sleep in a little bit. Um, so I was wondering, would it be better to to get more quality sleep >> or would it be better to just stay up a little bit later and get a workout in at night since I have a gym in the garage? >> Yeah, good question. And you mind if I read through your email a little bit just for >> Absolutely. >> Okay, so um, so you got what's happening right now? been consistent before, but what you're finding now is you're it's very hard to be consistent. >> You work a rotating shift. >> Yes. >> Okay. And what this looks like is 30 was it 36 hours one week and 48 hours the next week. And the work schedule rotates every 28 days. So, >> yes. >> 6 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. for 28 days. And then you go 600 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. for 28 days. >> Correct. >> Okay. And you also got kids. Little ones. >> Well, you got Well, you got two little ones. >> Yeah. Do you know why it's hard for you to to wake up and work out? >> Good. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'm just exhausted. >> Yeah, man. First of all, >> that schedule's rough. >> First of all, you're a good man. You're you're doing good stuff, bro. You're you're prioritizing the right things. >> What we need to do is we need to use exercise in a way to improve your quality of life. Okay? >> So, we got to look at it that way. >> I'll tell you what it looks like. >> And it's going to be a lot less than what you think. >> I'll tell you what it looks like. It's it's map 15 when you can and it's when you're home >> at 6:00 at night. It's not trying to get up early and disrupt the sleep patterns that you already have disrupted. >> It's when you have the time, it's too late. And what it looks like actually because you have kids and they're probably still going to be awake even when you come straight home from work >> is you go in the garage and you maybe even bring bring them or you bring the little one but like this is this was when Max like we would set up his little table to be playing with Play-Doh and stuff and then I would do one or two sets and then I'd be playing with him for 10 15 minutes. I'd have a 10 15 minute rest between the next set. That's okay, right? You know what I'm saying? And it's and it's okay if you only get one exercise done and then you're back in the house for a while and you got you're taking stuff and then you go back and you do another like give yourself the permission to li to lift like that. It's it's it's actually really good. It's totally okay. >> And with a MAPS 15 type of protocol, you're only knocking out two exercises a day. >> And so when you when you come in and out of of the workout that that those two exercises could take you two hours because you're doing which is totally okay. >> Or you do it all at once 20 minutes. >> Yeah. Sometimes the kids are totally engulfed in the Play-Doh and having a good time and one's maybe napping and you get the both exercises done in the 15 20 minutes you're supposed to and you're done. So that but but give yourself the permission for it to look like that. >> Now if you're if you're really tired and you're really exhausted, you skip that day and you just jump back on the next day. >> I was going to say too within the maps 15, it has like an advanced and the regular um programming where you actually have like a TRX >> suspension trainer. I think some days too if you feel like a little less intensity would be appropriate, I would do that uh plan and then you know kind of alternate and toggle between the two. >> It basically what it looks like Joey is just a little bit every day. >> Yeah, >> that's it. >> Okay. >> And the days you skip, you just jump back >> along that line. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah. Sorry. Uh along that line, uh I got Maps Prime. >> How would you and I also have I mean I've got a lot of y'all stuff. Um, how would you incorporate or would you even worry about trying to incorporate uh Matt's prime and then also uh the no BS six-pack formula? >> You're not going to do any you're not going to add the no BS six pack formula. >> Y >> with prime if you have any issues where you notice mobility issues >> you frequently throughout the day >> you could practice at any time of the day you're at work whatever you practice moves whenever you can >> some of the mobility movements that are in there. That's it. But otherwise, the Mass 15 workout is just a workout. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, like uh last week I went uh I set up my barbell because I got this one down for a nap and as soon as I started I kind of did maybe two warm-up sets and then started my started my first working set. And as soon as I did, she woke up. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Of course. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I wanted I ended up, you know, kind of settling her down 30 minutes later. Uh, would I just go back straight to >> Yes. Right back to it. >> That's 30 minutes an hour. >> Totally. >> Yes. Totally. >> Typ your CN a warm up is is designed really to to kind of make your body move the way it should. So, it kind of helps with what's called muscle recruitment patterns. >> A warm up or connecting actually lasts for a few hours. Now, the the stronger you are, the less true this is. So, if you're out there warming up to do a >> 350 pound squat, then you might want to do another warm-up set before you jump into it. >> So, the stronger you get, the more careful you got to be with your warm-up. But, if you're like just trying to string some days of exercise together, I wouldn't worry about it. >> Mhm. >> Okay. [crying] Um, also I got some blood work done uh last week and I've listened to y'all, you know, probably a year and a half or so. My testosterone came back laughably low. Like it [crying] was uh 164. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I was I told I told my uh primary care that I would like to get it up as as much as I can naturally, but how much how much would I even expect to be able to get it up naturally if it with it being that low just from, you know, lifting, eating, right? >> Well, I'm going to tell you the biggest issue that you have with your testosterone is your is your is your is your switching your massively switching schedule. Oh >> yeah, >> you're having a dramatic shift in circadian rhythm every 28 days, >> right? >> It's such a big circadian switch that it takes about a week and a half to two weeks to adjust and then you have a week or two before you got to do it again. >> Yeah. Every now and then I'm able to I'm able to swap with >> with a counterpart that's on the opposite schedule. >> Mhm. >> So I am able to every now and then work. Well, Joey, are you are you planning on >> the 28 I'm able to work the 52. >> Joey, are you planning on having more kids? >> What was that sound? >> Are you planning on having more kids? >> Lost them. >> Uh, we'll we'll see. [laughter] I don't plan on >> So >> that's a that's a that's an argument for that's an argument for another day. So, I don't know how much you can raise your testosterone naturally cuz here's the deal. We could double it and it would still be kind of low. >> Yeah. >> So, so what I what what you might want to do is you might want to work uh so our partners at mpormones.com >> either they could put you on testosterone, but if you plan on having more kids, I would say hold off, >> but you could take something called inclin. >> Inclane will raise your testosterone. They'll start with that and that'll raise your testosterone significantly. >> Yeah. Yeah, but even if he goes on testosterone, he can run hcg and he can still get pregnant. >> He could, but they're always iffy, right? But, you know, so there's there there's options. And I do think that you need you would want some [crying and screaming] a little bit of medical intervention for the testosterone. It'll be like it'll be like life like it'll be like the lights turned on. >> Oh my god, it'll be life-changing. It'll be life-changing with where your levels are at and how you feel and everything you're doing. It'll feel lifechanging. So, it's you're very much so a candidate. You >> can use a lift for >> Yeah. So, so I I honestly I don't know if the natural route while you maintain this crazy schedule is going to do a lot. >> Yeah. >> Uh, so I do think a little medical intervention would probably be a good idea while you're working this way. >> Okay. >> Don't bother. >> You're you're we I we typically push people to go all natural. Check all the boxes for you're a good c you're 36 years old. You have two kids. You have a crazy work schedule. You're a good candidate for somebody to have intervention, medical intervention right now. And that doesn't mean you can't down the road say kids are older, life has changed, uh come off and try and redo it naturally. So it's not like you're once you choose to start taking HRT, you can never not try and boost it naturally later down the road. >> You could also I mean I mean I you could also have kids while on testosterone by using hCG. So there's options, but I think that would help you a lot with your work and life for sure. >> Yeah. >> Yes. All right, >> blink if you're okay. [laughter] I >> think that pretty much covers it. >> All right, man. All right, John. We'll send you mass 15. >> Yeah, we'll send you mass 15. >> Go to go to mpormones.com, bro. Go to mpormones.com. >> Okay. >> We will we will go to mp hormones. >> All right. >> Thanks, brother. All right, brother. >> Thanks, gentlemen. Appreciate it, guys. >> Take it easy. >> It's the swing schedule. >> Oh my god. >> Dude, that a horrible schedule, >> bro. What What was this? You you showed the study too just on uh when when men have babies too the the their levels go down. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So already having kids Yeah. having two kids. >> You got first of all there's already stress uh of having the kids. Uh there's a stress of the schedule. Then you got >> you know a circadian switch that is opposite >> is the hardest thing. >> So think about this. You travel to a new country with a 9h hour time. I've done this right. >> This is like the other side of the world. >> Yeah. When I go when I fly to Italy, uh, which is what, a 9 hour difference? It takes me like honestly like 5 days to kind of feel normal. That's a 9-h hour difference. His is a flip. >> Yeah. >> He's going being a 6:00 a.m. to 600 p.m. to 600 p.m. to >> live on the moon for >> he's flipping completely, you know, and so that's it'll kill your hormones. >> Yeah. >> All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. How strong should you be? Ever wonder if you're actually strong or at least compared to people like yourself? Today's episode, we're going to talk about that and we're going to help you determine how strong you should be and also talk about the steps to getting strong as fast as possible. In fact, we're going to talk about the fastest way to get bigger and stronger all at the same time. Say Adam look at night. >> I Yes, it does actually. And I know that you wrote a really complex episode here, but I think Justin's metric has been the