Video summary
Max Lugavere argues that raising a child on a vegan diet carries significant biological risks, asserting that humans are biologically adapted to be omnivores rather than strict herbivores. He cites research by Be et al., published two to three years prior, which ranked nutrient-dense foods and found that animal products consistently topped the list for critical nutrients like zinc, vitamin B12, pre-formed DHA fat, choline, carnitine, carnosine, creatine, heam iron, and protein. Lugavere emphasizes that while dark leafy greens are calorie-sparse sources of vitamins C and folate, they cannot replace the nutrient density of animal products, particularly during pregnancy when a woman is eating for two. He warns that relying on processed alternatives or supplements to replicate whole foods represents "nutritionism," an approach humans did not evolve with, which fails to account for the complex entourage effects found in natural food matrices that enhance bioavailability and overall health. The discussion highlights severe potential consequences for children raised veganically, including stunted development, failure to thrive, and early onset conditions like hypertension and type two diabetes if they are forced into restrictive diets before developing a palate or understanding of nutrition. Lugavere points out the ethical contradiction faced by his friend Alex, who was convinced by Peter Singer's *Animal Liberation* but eventually admitted that he could not maintain an adequately balanced vegan diet without compromising his mental health and physical well-being. After publicly struggling with these limitations while facing intense internet criticism for eating animal products like salmon, Alex shifted to a more flexible approach, resulting in improved energy levels and flourishing life pursuits. This anecdote serves as evidence that rigid adherence to ethical ideologies often leads to physiological suffering when the body's resilience is pushed beyond its limits by nutrient deficiencies. Lugavere further critiques the sustainability of plant-based diets for aging populations, noting that while young bodies are highly adaptable due to stored vitamins and rubber-like tissues, older adults face anabolic resistance where they require more protein to maintain muscle mass. He observes that many middle-aged individuals clinging strictly to veganism appear sarcopenic (muscle-wasting) because the limited plant-based proteins become less effective as one ages, especially during hormonal shifts like menopause or andropause unless hormone replacement therapy is used. Although he acknowledges the existence of outlier vegan bodybuilders who may use performance-enhancing substances, he argues that for most people not obsessed with fitness junkie lifestyles, under-consuming protein on a plant-based diet becomes a major problem as they age, making an omnivorous approach incorporating both animal and plant products the ultimate optimal choice. Ultimately, Lugavere concludes that the belief in the superiority of isolated nutrients or processed food codes is a form of hubris where humanity attempts to outsmart nature through first-principles engineering rather than following evolutionary design. He stresses that until children reach adolescence, around ages fourteen or fifteen, parents are effectively locking them into developmental paths they did not choose by dictating their diet based on ideology rather than biological necessity. While he does not dismiss the potential for plant-based diets to improve biomarkers compared to the standard American diet when carefully constructed with supplements, he insists that crossing off entire categories of nutrient-dense animal foods is dangerous and unnecessary. The core message remains that a balanced omnivorous diet supports better brain development, muscular health, and long-term vitality without requiring individuals to sacrifice their mental well-being or ethical integrity in ways they cannot sustainably maintain.
Read the full video transcript
there was a New York Post article titled
I'm raising my child vegan it's not as
simple as you think and you replied and
said child abuse yes what's going on
yeah I mean I think you know we are
biologically adapted to be
omnivores and um we know that the
neonate relies on the mother deriving
adequate nutrition from her food and
there are the if you look at the most
nutrient-dense Foods available to your
average person today there's literally a
paper people can look it up published by
be et al two to three years ago that
ranked all the most nutrient-dense Foods
particularly by nutrients of concern so
nutrients that people tend to underc
consume today zinc vitamin B12 and
things like that and animal products
were took all the top spots with the
exception being uh dark leafy greens
which are thought to be very very
nutrient-dense because they're so
calorie sparse and they can they're a
good source of vitamin C and folate and
calcium and the like but animal products
are are most nutrient-dense foods and
when you're a pregnant woman you are
eating for two so you know we already
see that pregnant women tend to underc
consume protein um you know consumption
of choline which is a really important
uh nutrient for I mean you put choline
right City choline in your Y and your
neurotropic beverage right here like
super important for brain development
for cognitive function
um vitamin B12 crucially important
there's so many DHA fat right like
pre-formed DHA fat which is found
exclusively in animal products you can
consume Omega-3s from Plants but humans
are very inefficient at converting it to
its usable forms in the body and so I
mean that's from the standpoint of
pregnancy like if I
were in at the stage in my life where I
were looking to procreate I would want
to procreate with an omnivorous woman
and it's like saying something like that
is controversial today but it should Max
lug wants to procreate with an
omnivorous woman ladies you have this is
the sign that you have been looking for
it's a bad signal yeah um yeah so I mean
that's that's super important I think
like you with regards to plant-based
diets you can Cobble together a diet
that leads to better biomarkers and and
ultimately look a plant-based diet
compared to the standard American diet
is going to be a healthier choice right
um You can Cobble together a diet that
you know with the use of protein
supplements perhaps
uh can can can afford you a fantastic
body composition but I think from the
standpoint of pregnancy and ultimately
development and and childhood
development I think it's really
important to um yeah to allow your child
who's inevitably going to be a picky
eater as it is because that's inevitably
have children because they're a child
yeah I think it's really important to
not cross off the list because of some
silly ideology one of the most
nutrient-dense the most nutrient-dense
category of foods available to your
average human what do you do you have
any idea what will happen to a child who
is lacking in many of the sort of things
that a vegan diet would cause there to
be a bereft uh yeah I mean look stunted
development um failure to thrive I mean
I you know I just think it's I think
you're it's essentially sometimes
referred to as nutritionism this idea
that humans with all of our hubris can
distill food into its constituent
nutrients and then replicate food in a
way with with processed Alternatives I
mean if you take something like the
product soilent it's a perfect example
of that right it's like what happens
when Silicon Valley people try to create
food they break down a food into its
constituent nutrients right the data
that makes a food food according to them
this is the code of food yeah this is
the code of food and and we have this
Ultra processed ultimately crap product
but here it is right like you're not
going to develop a deficiency disease if
this is all you consume every day and so
that's like nutritionism and I think it
fails time and time again because we
didn't evolve with these nutrients in
isolation we've evolved with food and we
have a handful of nutrients that we know
are essential but that list of what's
essential what's conditionally essential
and what's non-essential is changing all
the time as it should and Foods don't
just contain these single nutrients in
isolation right like an orange isn't
just doesn't just provide vitamin C
right there are countless other
innumerable like nutrients that we have
yet to even name likely compounds in you
know in an orange that might have an
Entourage effect that might increase the
absorption the bioavailability of the
vitamin C for example and the RDA for
vitamin C is set to avoid scurvy at the
population level right but that doesn't
mean that we're all consuming adequate
levels of vitamin C to promote optimal
collagen synthesis for example which we
know vitamin C is involved in so you
know foods have all of these different
nutrients and you take a food like red
meat right like red meat has uh it
contains vitamin B12 which somebody on a
plant-based diet might say well that's
the one essential nutrient you can't get
on a plant-based diet I can just take a
vitamin B12 supplement but what about
the constellation of nutrients that that
vitamin B12 comes with right like the
heem iron the carnitine the carnosine
the creatine which we know is really
important from a standpoint of muscular
Health right um and so you're just
depriving uh a baby of you know of all
of those different nutrients and look
the standard American diet isn't isn't
great either like you have a lot of
children these days that have early
onset hypertension early onset type two
diabetes so I'm not saying that the
alternative is St is the standard
American diet but I think that you can
that yeah that like you can the ultimate
optimal diet
for certainly for a developing human but
also for an adult is a diet that
incorporates both animal products and
and uh plant products it's interesting
to think that the
child abuse thing is uh like a really
interesting frame of it because you are
locking in to this neonatal human a kind
of development that they didn't choose
yeah that they had no valtion in saying
yes or no to and I guess you know
largely until the age of probably 14 or
15 when they can use the stove
themselves and actually fully understand
what's going into them you know even
throughout preschool so on and so forth
you're still largely doing that but when
it's you have to what you eat is what
your child eats in some regard uh it's
wild I have a friend Alex who was a uh
vegan uh philosopher for a good while he
was uh ethically convinced by Peter
Singer workor uh animal Liberation which
I still think from an ethical
perspective I I think that we're going
to look back on what we do now with much
of animal farming and think of it as
abhorrent I think you're going to look
back and see it as not quite sort of
Holocaust but in that sort of Realm oh
my God we had sentient animals and we
did this to them
right he became completely vegan pilled
he became an advocate he is an
unbelievably effective debater at
everything uh but particularly for
veganism and he found after going vegan
that making a commitment making a
sacrifice uh to the philosophy that he
the ethic that he'd been convinced by he
found that he was suffering uh his body
and his mental health had both taken a a
pretty big like an increasingly big hit
from this and he he posted the day that
he became unconvinced that he could meet
an adequately balanced vegan diet he
immediately felt like it was his um he
was compelled to tell his audience
because again he came here he got here
from being ethical and being truthful
and and high integrity with his ethics
and then as soon as those had changed he
decided to put a post out and I said
don't do this you are opening yourself
up to a tone of criticism wait until you
can do the video and he said well yeah
but what if someone sees me eating
salmon on a train or something in the UK
like I'm not going to feel in line so
again he was like hoisted by his own
ethics again he got absolutely pillared
by the internet for doing it we you know
you were supposed to you said that you
understood and a blah blah blah and then
he did a video talking through how he
was struggling to be able to eat a
completely balanced uh sufficiently
robust plant-based diet and again people
had massive problems and now I think
he's probably one year hence is wow
mental health is way better his uh
Pursuit that he goes after in life is
flourishing his energy levels have
improved all of this stuff again this
isn't for me to say look vegans you're
condemning yourself to a life of low
energy misery but there are people out
there For Whom the limitations that you
place on yourself by going on a vegan
diet make getting a balanced diet so
much more difficult again and if you're
a 24y old YouTuber and
writer who maybe still needs to do a bit
of growing
up you life's hard enough as it like
you're just trying to get up before
midday you know what I mean like you're
trying not to go out and party with your
friends too much you're trying to like
learn what productivity is and how do I
do my taxes and like the I've got a
relationship or I'm not in whatever you
know these are additional uh levels of
complexity and difficulty that I don't
think you need to add into your life uh
and yeah you know this is very very much
kind of Fallen by the wayside now and
Alex is is out on the other side but uh
I really respected him for what for what
he decided to do with that that he said
look I've given this a crack I'm still
ethically convinced by veganism but
physiologically I don't think that I can
do I don't think can commit to this and
yeah out the other side of that he's now
just he's he's crushing it he's
absolutely crushing it also I mean as
you referenced when you're younger you
have more resilience like a younger body
is a more resilient body I mean think
about all the late nights all the I mean
for me like when I was in college I used
to drink a lot I don't have a problem
with alcohol but like I would I would
consume alcohol I would do other things
like and your body rebounds really fast
when you're young right cuz you made of
rubber and Magic yeah we're High we're a
highly adaptable species that's one of
the the amazing things about being a
human being right but as you get older I
mean I'm telling you I have a lot of
friends that are in middle age and that
are still Clinging On to this idea of a
of a plant-based diet being optimal and
again they look sarcopenic you know I
mean you can find vegan bodybuilders
like those outliers exist you know some
of them are augmented don't necessarily
cop to it all good not judging or maybe
judging a little bit because they
attribute they tend to attribute their
gains to being vegan not to the
exogenous testosterone there you go
again you can Cobble like we know that
plant protein at this point and animal
protein when you consume enough protein
the muscle gains are comparable so that
you know there's no issue there but for
most again for most people for most
people that are not obsessive Fitness
junkies um it's a big problem they tend
to underc consume protein and um and as
you get older you become anabolic
resistant I'm sure Gabrielle lion talked
about this you become resistant to
Lucine so the little Lucine that you're
getting on a plant-based diet is
becoming even less effective you know as
you get older and whether it's
andropause or menopause you're fighting
a losing battle with regard to your
hormones ultimately unless you're on you
know HRT and so it's a it's a huge
problem but younger people you know
maybe they adopt a vegan diet for a few
months or years and they feel good right
the body has stores of certain vitamins
they're again more resilient they're
more adaptable and so it's fine but yeah
it's not uncommon these days to see
whether they're influencers on YouTube
on Instagram that are that were
previously vegan either covertly eating
animal products which I've heard happens
like they're doing it covertly or they
they make the switch right I'm eating
steak wrapped in spinach and no no one
no one can see what's inside of this
dude it happens it happens and with
regard to mental health specifically
there are so many nutrients and animal
products that are just required by the
human brain I mean we attribute the
development of the human brain to access
to the nutrients found in animal
products right so this idea again it's
just hubris right it's hubris and I hate
the p word but I'll use it privilege
that we think that we can Cobble
together a diet that mimics are the diet
the kind of diet that we Evol we know
better than nature we don't need to use
no no no no we don't need to grow it and
pull it out of the ground no no we can
do it from code from first we'll Matrix
our way into creating a diet yeah it's
it's it's wild man we'll get back to
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