The AI Super-Cycle Has Begun — You Have 1 Year To Get UNFATHOMABLY RICH! | Chris Camillo

The $20,000 that I initially invested has generated roughly $80 million of returns over the past 17-18 years. If you're not willing to take real risk, you're simply never going to get rich quick. >> [music] >> What do you know that others don't about AI? So many people misunderstand [music] what AI actually is. But I've never felt more confident about the AI [music] trade than I do today. I think the next billion-dollar company can be built by a single person without any employees. This is the first [music] time where the future is not necessarily owned by those with the most [music] money or the best education. It's owned by anyone that's willing [music] to adopt quickly and create. I'm calling it like the great reset. So then what advice would you give our viewers [music] so they can capitalize on this information? This is a very different gold rush for this generation. The window is [music] very small. So if you're young and you've been complaining because you did not have any opportunity, you just got it. Chris Camillo, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour. Yeah, happy to be back, guys. In mid-November, we had you on the podcast and that specific day one of your all-time favorite stocks was tanking. And you walked in and you coolly said, "I just bought another million bucks today." While I was absolutely panicking because I was losing a lot of money. And then that exact stock plummeted even further. It went down from 100 that day to $70, where you took a levered position in the stock. And everyone was calling you insane like they usually do. And then of course, like you usually are, you were absolutely right because now it's at an all-time high of around $150 a share. So you basically doubled your money. Had you guys watched that episode 3 months ago, you would be up 50% on that one stock that we discussed that episode. >> also be up over 200% on your initial call of Robinhood when it was $38 a share and you said your one regret was not having more money to invest in more Robinhood. Yeah, that's all true. Um I'm fully margined. So there's no more money left to invest at this point. Well, the reason why we wanted to bring you on is because you were absolutely correct with all of these predictions and also the market is at a very scary place right now. It does not seem like a confident market. Like every day it's a coin toss up or down and it's usually by quite a big amount. There doesn't seem to be any consistency in the market, either. It also seems like the fear index is at a very strong fear level even though we're only like 1% from all-time highs. >> [gasps] >> So the market hates unknowns. We know that, right? Like more than anything else, the market does not know how to handle unknowns. And there's never been a larger unknown in the history of the market in our lifetime than artificial intelligence. It really doesn't matter how pedigreed you are, how much money you manage. I don't care if you're at the top of the food chain in Silicon Valley in technology. Everybody has differing opinions on how this is going to play out and that's a scary place to be. So it does make sense that we're having this volatility. However, I think there's an opportunity for investors to get to the ground truth, maybe not in terms of what's going to happen in 10 years, but in terms of what's happening right now because there's so much noise in the market and so much confusion that people are just panicking and the reality is there's a fairly good amount of transparency as to what's happening right now with artificial intelligence if you know where to look and you're willing to actually spend the time cutting through the noise and and finding that ground truth. So while everyone is absolutely panicking, you're digging your heels in. And I'm curious, what do you know that others don't about AI? Yeah, I I I've never felt more confident about the AI trade than I do today. And uh most of that is based on what I've seen surface over the last, I would say, you know, 2 weeks. You guys are probably familiar with what's been happening with the generative AI. Uh there's been some really big new products uh that have surfaced. OpenClaw is is probably the biggest one. Uh I'm seeing things today that I didn't think I would see for at least another year. And AI has started to accelerate late rapidly in terms of its actual uh integrated adoption and its use cases and its productive value uh inside of enterprise and small business and for personal use. So a lot of the question marks that I think existed just a couple months ago are gone now as it relates to AI. >> What was the biggest question that you think people had and what is the answer to that question? >> Well, I think the two biggest misunderstandings about AI, one is that we're in this bubble and everybody likes to relate it to the dot-com bubble, which I was intimately involved with. I was young. I was living in LA, working at a dot-com. And I remember it like it was yesterday, but there's a very big difference between what unraveled in 1999 and 2000 and what's happening today in AI. Back then, Wall Street and the world saw the future of what the internet could be and likely would be. And all the dollars flowed very quickly into enterprise to fund that. However, it didn't evolve quickly enough, right? So it took the internet like 15 years for us to start to see the type of productivity and the type of efficiencies and the type of acceleration that we knew would be possible. Um the money was invested many years earlier and it just took too long to play out. So we weren't able to see the productivity increases. We weren't able to see the step-ups in revenue generation from internet companies quickly enough and that I think is a large part of what led to the dot-com boom busting. Does it worry you though right now that the top 10% of households are responsible for 50% of the spending? No, not at all. Um I think that's a totally separate issue. I I think you know, the main difference that I'm discussing is AI has the opposite problem of what happened during the dot-com boom in that the acceleration of enterprise adoption of artificial intelligence is moving too quickly. Now that presents other issues like potentially, you know, the systematic destruction of humanity, which is a possibility. That's bad if it happens. Um but I because it's moving so quickly, we're starting to see rapid adoption of massive amounts of productivity and efficiency in the business world. Um I've never seen anything like this in my life. I didn't think it was possible. Okay? So all of the things that led to the dot-com bubble busting are actually happening but in the opposite way right now. >> How could that be shared equally and how do you ensure that the top 1% don't get 99% of the productivity gains? I can't, but that will always take care of itself. So the the issue that you're surfacing is potentially very real, but that always I think that has a way of taking care of itself through politics, through regulation, through taxation. Uh there are an infinite number of policies that we can adopt if if this plays out in that way. And my assumption is that we will figure it out. Because if we don't figure it out, yes, well, there'll be people wanting to overthrow the government and nobody wins in that scenario, right? So you just have to assume that we'll figure it out, but I think I think you're jumping way too far ahead. >> Mhm. The big issue that everyone has with AI that's causing the instability we're seeing right now is is it a bubble or is it not a bubble? Well, I don't think it's a bubble because we are actually seeing the things that we need to see in terms of productivity and revenue generation uh to ensure that there's value in the money that's being spent. Now, we're always going to have a a degree of creative destructionism, right? In the dot-com bubble, it was pets.com. We're going to have lots of pets.coms of the artificial intelligence revolution, right? There'll be a lot of creative destructionism, a lot of wrappers that will go bust, a ton of overspending on the wrong companies. That's natural. That's to be expected. But I don't think we will see the type of massive bubble burst just based on this not being real enough quick enough. But the other big issue, and I think this is very real and very important, and I think this is part of the reason why we might ultimately have an issue with a very small concentration of companies and people are getting the bulk of value out of this is because so many people misunderstand what AI actually is. Um, they just think it's an autocomplete because quite honestly a couple of years ago, it kind of was an autocomplete. Right? That's not what it is today. So, if you were to give today's LLM or any of the agentic agents and any of the agentic AIs that are out there right now, a nuanced problem, uh a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a problem that it has never seen before, okay? A problem that it can't just go dig up an answer and serve it to you like Google would. It's able to actually extract a solution to the problem without simply just pulling it from a data set today. And if you want to understand how it's doing that, all you have to do is ask it, right? Say, "That's incredible. How did you actually solve that problem for me?" And it will show you how the problem solved, okay? Um, and we get really confused because we think this is not really intelligence because it works a little bit different than the way our minds work. In fact, we don't fully understand the way our minds work and we still today don't fully grasp 100% of how some of the AI is working today. But this is critically important because you know, a plane doesn't like flap its wings like a bird. We used to think to fly, to gain altitude you'd have to flap wings, right? A plane doesn't do that, but does a plane fly? Yes, of course it does. Um, you know, all compute uh all technology is based on zeros and ones, very simple things, right? So, when you have these very simple things and you apply massive amounts of scale to simplicity, you get complexity, right? That is able to do things that you never thought would be imaginable with what you started off with, zeros and ones. Same thing with human biology and living life with, you know, at everything's an atom, right? Uh very simple, but the complexity once you bring massive amounts of scale to that very simple thing gives us all of life. Do we fully comprehend how we get from here to here? No, but it happens. And so, a lot of the pattern recognition that artificial intelligence is based on seems like it's fake to us, but it's very real and very important. Um, and it we can't quite comprehend just how powerful that pattern recognition is going to be in a few years. So, I think once you understand those two things, you become a bit more relieved that the of the realness of this. Yeah, someone was showing me yesterday a YouTube channel that was completely AI. And if I watched this channel, I'd have no idea it was AI. I was actually blown away by it. I was shocked. And so, what I did right afterwards is I bought Claude, whatever the most expensive one was, >> Yeah. and I uploaded 25 of my scripts to Claude and I had it analyze every single stylistic approach that I've taken to videos, every nuance, every joke, everything. And it gave me a whole 20-page report on exactly how I script my videos down to every detail. And just for fun, I had uh another program do deep research. I put that into Claude and it gave me a script back in 5 minutes that was probably 90% as good as what I would do sitting here for 8 hours. Now, it's not perfect, but that to me was remarkable that this thing got it down 90% in a few minutes. Cuz I remember a while ago, years ago, I put out a notice on my Instagram. I said I'm looking to hire a script writer uh and I was willing to pay $100,000 a year. Couldn't find anyone that did it in my voice and I figured I'm just going to do it myself. But this replaces what would have been $100,000 a year. If someone If someone was able to do this 5 years ago, I would have paid them for it. Would you say it's even better than what you would have likely been able to hire for $100,000 a year? Yes. Okay. Oh, yeah. And it's nearly instantaneous. Yeah, you just give it any topic 24/7 and it and it does a good job. Again, it's not perfect. And if I were to read this off as my own words, it just didn't sound me and it sounded a little robotic, but I'm sure at some point it'll get there. It's the worst it will ever be. I I'm launching a fairly uh complex venture and I had a 24-hour period to get a business brief to the management team of a potential podcast host for this venture that would be the marketing arm. And I got home late night after being out. My wife and some friends and I had been drinking and my head wasn't exactly straight, but I had to deliver this the next day. I went into a side bedroom and I just rambled off into ChatGPT for 45 minutes a bunch of weird random ideas of what I wanted to be in this business brief. There were points where I didn't even speak for 2 and 1/2 minutes and I I don't even know how it understood what I was saying, quite honestly. It put out the equivalent of like a six-page McKinsey-style brief. I was actually stunned. Now, what's even more interesting is um things didn't work out with that podcast host and I sought out another podcast host that had a completely different style. It would have not only have changed the style of the podcast, but potentially the brand and the venture itself. So, I asked uh the AI if it was possible to kind of rethink the entire format of the podcast and the business and the venture and the marketing and the branding based on this one other person that had a very unique style. And what it did for me, I it actually melted my mind. I couldn't believe it. And I I mean, it came up with an entirely new format and I didn't understand how it was able to assess the nuances of this content creator's style so much and how to bridge that into a very complicated business venture and still have it be seamless with the venture's ultimate objectives, but completely change the venture positioning and the branding and the marketing and the podcast and how it would be filmed and what the skits might look like. And it did it in 30 seconds. And I said, "I have to understand how you did this. Please, Doc, I I want to know exactly how you did this because what you did does not seem possible to me for an AI." And it it wrote like a three-page brief showing me all the steps that it took. And when I read this, I was like, I honestly, guys, I it was one of those moments where I could not believe what I was reading. The The degree that this used reasoning, okay, and nuance to kind of figure out these problems and to map these problems and then figure out how to sew them together in in like this seamless new package for me for a complicated business venture in 30 seconds is something that I would spend months on with a team of people and probably not accomplish even remotely as well as the AI did for me in 30 seconds. And this is just one use case for one individual person with a business venture. Now, extrapolate that across every single business and problem on Earth. Like that's happening today, not in 5 years, today. For most people, and definitely myself, the hardest part of staying on top of your diet is time. Between work, going to the gym, and everything else you have going on in your life, the expectation that you're going to cook all meals yourself is just not realistic. That's exactly why today's sponsor, CookUnity, has become such an incredible and easy part of my routine. It's the first meal delivery service that connects you directly with award-winning chefs sending fresh, ready-to-eat meals right to your door. What really stands out about CookUnity is the variety. Every single week, you could choose from a wide range of meals inspired by cuisines from around the world. I've personally been completely hooked on the California-style chicken enchiladas because I grew up in Southern California. Southern California, if you know, you know, has incredible Mexican food. Here in Las Vegas, sub-optimal. Okay, but these ones are really good. They come with Spanish rice and black beans. It's rich, comforting, and packed with flavor. And coming from Chef Kevin Meehan, it genuinely tastes like a restaurant-quality meal. They also have filters if you're looking for something specific. For example, the fitness menu is great if you want a high-protein and balanced meal. It just makes eating healthy so much easier. The meals arrive fresh, never frozen, and they'll be ready in just a couple minutes. That means no meal prep, no tracking guesswork, and no sacrificing flavor because every dish clearly shows the chef, the ingredients, and the macros, which makes staying on track incredibly simple. For chef-made meals that save time and support your fitness goals, head to the link down below in the description to get 50% off of your first CookUnity order with the code ICH50. Once again, that is 50% off your first order at cookunity.com using code ICH50. There's also a link down below in the description. You can just click it right there. Thank you so much to CookUnity for sponsoring this episode. Another thing that I did a while ago on ChatGPT was I asked it to write a joke in the style of a few different comedians. Now, obviously, this is like what you just explained, but like a very basic level, and it is phenomenal. Like you could ask for the exact same joke delivered in Tim Dillon style or Theo Von style or Chris D'Elia style or Andrew Schulz style and it totally accurately does the exact same joke in their styles, which I thought was phenomenal. I should have asked how it was able to determine the tone. On the topic of ChatGPT, if someone has a limited budget, which subscription services should they pay for and at what level? It really depends on your use case. I think for most people, it actually doesn't matter that much. Um whether you use Gemini or whether you use ChatGPT, we're talking about like the $20 level. For most people, that's completely fine. For anyone that's actually doing any sort of deep research, business analysis, that's actually starting businesses, running a business, even if it's a small one, um you should probably pay up for like a $200 a month style subscription. >> one? How do you know which one to purchase? >> Well, again, it it it really depends on your use case. And and right now today, everything has changed in the last 2 weeks. So, I guess I just answered the question as if we were doing this show 2 weeks ago. But the reality is today, now that we live in a world of agentic AI, not every AI company has put out their full agentic AI stack. So, today Anthropic has put out something that that they call a co-work, right? And Anthropic co-work essentially gives you the ability not just to run a prompt, uh but to actually have numerous agents. It's like having a multitude of employees, and you simply tell it what you want to do, and it will have five, six, seven agents. One will be running a marketing department, one will be running a tech stack for you, and it will piece together all the things that it needs to piece together in order to accomplish any task or any goal that you have, and it will work 24 hours a day, right? So, it's not just like putting in a prompt and waiting for an answer, and then copy and pasting and doing it the way we've been doing it through ChatGPT the last couple of years. Now, there is another way to do this, which I think most people are adopting the last couple weeks, and you've probably heard of Open Claw, right? It's gone through a few different naming changes, but this is essentially the same thing, except it's open source. It's not run by a big model, and because it's open source, it's completely free. So, everyone's going out right now and buying Mac Mini you know, Mac Minis, and they're basically running Open Claw, and you don't have to be a technologist to do this. Anyone in the world can do this really easily. You just simply tell it, "Hey, I want to start this business. How do I do this? What do I need to do?" And you set up Open Claw with its own email account. You set it up with its own social media accounts. You set it up with its own credit card, if you want, with its own limits. Uh it has it's its own person, and it runs on a Mac Mini, and the reason why you want to run it on a Mac Mini is because it's new and because it's open source, so the safety standards aren't really there yet. So, it becomes an employee, and in fact, it can become an employee that's managing five or six or seven or eight employees, because it will create other agents inside of itself to do an infinite number of things. So, it will actually run a business for you from A to Z on its own, and that's what's been happening the last 2 weeks. >> To me, it just doesn't seem feasible that you could tell it this idea, like I want to make this app that does this, do it. That it'll actually go and like make the app and put it on the app store and charge your card for it, and like how how? Graham, it's doing all of it. I know it This is why I haven't slept in 2 weeks. I mean, this is why I initially missed the first, you know, when we were supposed to be doing this show a couple days ago, and I just didn't even realize cuz my life is this crazy. I can't keep up with the technology the last couple weeks. So, um you know what I do as an investor. I essentially spend 4 hours a day dissecting thousands and thousands of comments on videos to try to surface change in the world, right? Cultural shifts, consumer behavioral shifts, and then I try to connect the dots of that change to investable opportunities in the stock market, and that's what a social arbiter does. That's what I've been doing for 18 years. Um there are a lot of people that follow me, obviously, and um there are at least six people that I know of in the last week that have set up uh Open Claw boxes and said, "I want you to replicate everything that Chris Camillo does." And a few of these people have actually put the results and and have shown it working uh on X, and it works 24 hours a day doing everything that I do. So, it actually goes into TikTok, and it starts watching videos. It runs through comments. It knows what words to look for. It knows to look for words like sold out everywhere, obsessed. Um so, it understands my methodology, and it knows what to search for on TikTok, and then it scans comments, and then it evaluates what's trending in real time, and then it extrapolates what might be a good investment to make. This was done in 48 hours. They basically replicated 18 just voice prompting, "Hey, can you replicate what Chris Camillo does at research me?" And then it started it started a company, and it started doing this in real time. And so, I'm just one very niche individual with a niche um business, right? It can do this for any business in the world. In fact, like this is this is the most exciting piece of this in that I'm calling it like the great reset, okay? And I'm so excited for because there's so much negativity around AI right now. Everything that you just talked about with so much of the benefit of AI getting concentrated to one class of people, >> [sighs and gasps] >> it doesn't have to be that way. This is the first time in my lifetime where the future is not necessarily owned by those with the most credentials or the most money or the best education. Um it's owned by anyone, anyone in the world that's willing to adopt quickly and create. So, you know, Gen Z has been complaining for a long for a very long time, and they have a they have a valid complaint that they don't have the opportunity that, you know, boomers had, right? And we could all agree that to an extent, the pathway for them isn't as clear. They could spend a lot of money on education and still end up with no job, in debt, and no clear pathway to success and financial freedom in their life. Well, right now, anyone in the world that is willing to adopt and create can do what I just told you, because for the past 20 years, if you wanted to start a business, you would have to raise money, you would have to build a team, you would usually have to understand technology, or have to communicate what you were trying to build through a technologist, and it would take a lot of time. There's a tremendous amount of risk involved with all of that, and because of that, most of the world's problems did not mandate starting a business to fix them. Because even if you had the solution to a problem, the cost of actually implementing that solution was way too high for that particular problem. So, the business wasn't viable. Now, every single solution to every single problem in the world is theoretically viable. So, there are millions, tens of millions of nuanced problems throughout every industry, every sector, even in people's personal lives. >> [sighs] >> Every single one of those problems is solvable with AI, for the most part. And all you have to do is surface the problem, and have the wherewithal to go out and adopt and spend 2 or 3 days of your life learning how to use these tools, and you do not have to be a technologist. >> How do you start learning about these? What's the first step? >> First step, you go on TikTok, you go on the search bar, you type in the word AI, and you filter down for videos that have come out in the last week, and you just watch 40 of them. That's it. Then you go on to X, and you essentially do the same exact thing, and there are numerous people, hundreds and hundreds of people, that are excited to show you how to use this tool and get ramped up in 24 hours as a complete newbie that has no technological background, okay? You do not need to know how to do anything. I'll give you a very specific example, okay? Um you can pick any business, an HVAC business, a sprinkler business. There are millions of these businesses. Almost none of them are willing to embrace AI right now. You can simply go to one of them and say, "Hey, I'm an I'm an AI guy. Give me one area where your leaking money, one area where your business is leaving money on the table, and I'm going to fix that for you for free." And they might say, "Hey, we are slow to react to phone calls that come in late at night. Uh sometimes we don't respond to them at all, or by the time we respond to them, they've then contacted one of our In 24 hours, you can set up an AI agent that will uh answer those calls, send out immediate automated text responses, then uh get that person signed up uh and get them a quote bid in next to real time. It you can have it integrate with every single service that that business uses currently. It could input into their CRM, okay? It could email all the people within the business that need to know about that, including the business owner. You can set that all up within days for that business at essentially very close to no cost. You just fixed a huge problem for them. You might increase that company's revenue by 5 to 15% in 2 or 3 days. Immediately, you become invaluable. And you just probably picked up a client that will pay you 2 or 3,000 dollars to be their AI guide to fix all their other problems. You can replicate that across 10 or 20 other businesses and probably make half a million dollars a year. There are people right now doing this. They just started in the last week. Historically, like during the dot-com boom, the gold rush was trying to pick the right company to work for. I was part of that. If you pick the right company, you get your stock options and 2 or 3 years later, you're a millionaire, even if you're 22 years old. And I had so many friends that were that age that became millionaires overnight because they picked the right company. You picked the wrong company, maybe you end up with nothing. >> [sighs and gasps] >> This is a very different gold rush for this generation. It's not about who they pick to work for. They have to do it on their own, but the opportunity is near infinite. The difference is the window is very small. So, you have to do it right now, like this year, not like in 6 months, not in 9 months, but like today. So, over the course of the last week, I've probably gotten 15 calls from people in my network that told me they were about to quit their job. Some of them were 23, 24, some of them were in their mid-30s, some of them were in their 40s. Because they got a box, they got a Mac mini, they got this set up, and they said, "Chris, I can literally start any business in the world and have it running in 48 hours. I've never seen anything like this." Every hour matters. I cannot give up hours. I must quit my job. So, if you're young and you've been complaining because, you know, the world was jaded against you and you did not have any opportunity, you just got it. So, one-word answer, should every single person, at the end of this podcast, not right now, but at the end of this podcast, buy a Mac mini and download Open Claw? No. Okay. So, not everybody. For anyone that is willing to adopt and create. Yes, you should do that tomorrow. Would you say the highest leverage AI for the average person out there, not for a very specific person, but the average person, would be Open Claw, would be number one, and then maybe just a basic Gemini or ChatGPT or something like that? I wouldn't think of it like that. First of all, they're all changing every week. So, whatever we decide on today is going to be different in 3 or 4 weeks. They're all evolving their models. They all do things slightly differently. If you want to have an entire company operating 24 hours a day, then you have to have agentic AI. You have to have agents. >> So, if you look at the monitor that is being used for this Open Claw agent AI thing, it's literally just like windows that are scrolling and then clicking buttons and then creating a Gmail account. >> think of it like that, exactly. Yes. Simultaneously. You wake up You'll wake up in the morning and you could see everything that it's done for you over the course of the night. And you can communicate back and forth with it. It will even help you decide what the best business is for you to start. Right? So, based on things that are happening in your city, based on your interest, based on your expertise, based on your relationships, on your contacts, it will help you figure out what would be the best business for it to start for you. >> And the difference between Open Claw and something like ChatGPT is that ChatGPT doesn't really have a true memory. That is correct? But Open Claw sort of actually can compound exorbitant amounts of data and synthesize the data and then act on the data. So, what Open Claw can do is it can document and then store, right? >> The same way that you guys do. This It will have documents. It has files. It creates things and then it saves them in files. So, now you have that. It's not just living, right? As part of an index that an AI has to tap into, it literally creates regular files on a regular computer, just like you do. It works just like a human does. If it needs to make phone calls, it will make phone calls for you. It will create a voice and it will make the phone calls if you give it the ability to do so and if you allow it to do so. There are people out there that have amazing ideas, but they don't have the resources, the money, the network, the team, the technical know-how. None of that matters anymore. We are going through a great reset where if you have an idea on your head and you are willing to adopt and you want to create, you can do it right now for the first time ever in history. This week. Like People are There are people that understand this cuz every phone call I take, the people are borderline in tears when they speak to me. They're like, "Chris, have you seen Do you understand what's happening right now? Do you understand what I just built last night? I cannot believe it." Like this is every conversation I have with someone that's building on agentic AI right now. There are actually no words to describe how mind-melting the capabilities are because you no longer have to like go through all these systems and all these blockages that you used to in the past. I've been an entrepreneur my entire life. I want to do a billion things. I did like a very small number of them because of of all the friction involved with going from an idea to a product. There's virtually no friction anymore. I know it's hard to believe, but there's like virtually no friction with so many of the least these digital ideas. You know what this does remind me? I I have this feeling that I've had the last 2 weeks and I haven't felt it since the early days of COVID. February 2020 is the last time my body felt like this, where it was like a very small number of people know about something and like the entirety of the rest of the world is just going on with their life and you're like, "Why isn't every single human on Earth talking about this right now?" >> [sighs and gasps] >> I really was excited to dive into the Epstein stuff when it finally came out and it's came out the last 2 weeks. I have not spent 1 minute of my day reading Epstein stuff, watching the videos. Like I see the headlines and I'm like, "I don't even care about it anymore." I was so waiting for this to happen. Like I wanted to go down the rabbit hole of seeing like all the truth and who's involved and I don't even care. And I think once you know what's happening, you just you're oblivious to everything else happening in the world. I haven't watched TV in 2 weeks. I haven't like I haven't done anything other than this. And I think all the people that are in this world that are either building with AI agents right now or have friends that are building that they're watching or who are hyperactive in this community on X are like they can't think about anything else cuz they're like, "Dude, this is like the biggest thing that's ever happened in our life and we don't even know where it's going next." Like we don't even know Like you saw what happened to the SaaS companies. Mhm. Like that's because a handful of people on institutional Wall Street are in these are in this world and they're seeing this and they're like, "Holy crap, this is happening." Like okay, we we can make a case that a lot of these SaaS companies have massive amounts of security and massive amounts of learning over 20 years and they're not going to be just displaced, but wow, are they going to be disrupted the next 5 years because you can There's so many options now. You can have your agents basically replicate most of that stuff on the fly. And it might not work for a big company that has to, you know, be a be aware of the code base and it has to make sure it's maintainable and has to make sure that the security is tight and, you know, has 50,000 things that they figured out with with Salesforce over the past 20 years that they're not going to go through all that just with a agentic AI app that does 80% of it or 90% of it. They're just not going to do it. They're not going to take that risk. But, if there are parts of their company that they could not have on that CRM anymore or new companies that they're spinning out that aren't as like it's going to meaningfully impact these companies. And really quick, here's what I noticed. February always seems like the right time to slow down. The weather is colder, everything seems a bit quieter, and it's a good time to take care of yourself and also the people that you care about the most. That's why I am so excited about our sponsor Cozy Earth because their entire goal is to make everyday life feel noticeably better. Their bamboo pajama set made from viscose from bamboo is incredibly soft. It's very lightweight and it feels just incredibly cozy. What I like most about it is that you don't get overheated. It drapes really well and it's the type of pajamas that you actually look forward to getting into at the end of the day. And the extra weight blanket is exactly what you want this time of year. It's plush, has a comforting weight to it and instantly makes your couch or bed feel so much more inviting. What really makes Cozy Earth stand out is the quality. Everything feels very intentional and it's really made to last. Like it's something that improves your day-to-day quality of life dramatically. And it's completely risk-free to try because all of their products come with a 100-night sleep trial so you can really live it and just feel the difference. Plus on top of that, there is a 10-year warranty so it just goes to show you how much they stand behind their product. So this February, I hope you take the time to take care of yourself and the people that you love the most. Cozy Earth really does make everyday moments that much more comfortable and I'm going off script here because I just got to say it. Their bed sheets are the most comfortable bed sheets I have ever experienced in my entire life, even better than like high-end hotels or places that I've visited. The bed sheets that we have at home from Cozy Earth are like 10 times better. I genuinely look forward to waking up every single morning and just being surrounded by Cozy Earth bed sheets. It sounds weird but you have to try it and experience it for yourself to be able to see what I'm talking about. And just trust me, it's worth it. You can check them out at cozyearth.com and use the code ICE for up to 20% off. And if you get a survey after purchasing, let them know that you heard about it here. So celebrate everyday love with comfort that makes the little moments count. Because you have your finger on the pulse and you know exactly what's going on. I'm curious, how has this expressed itself in terms of your own investing style for this year? Because I remember also you were at 70 million, now you're at 8 mil 80 million. So you've probably cleared 10 million dollars relatively recently with your investing. And I imagine a good amount of that is Bloom and then there's some other stuff. I'm curious like how has it materialized in terms of your portfolio? My account's volatile. I've lost a lot of money in the last 2 weeks. It has not been a good last couple of weeks. And I've had to go deeper into margin to double down on what I believe are very high conviction bets that I'm making right now. And this is no secret. I'm very open with my large trades. Bloom has been one of them for a long time. Uh [gasps] Amazon is my new biggest trade. I know you literally just said on your podcast, you're like, I just bought another medium-sized house of Amazon right now after buying three medium-sized houses yesterday and Amazon. >> three more since then. Yeah. >> gosh. So What do you see in Amazon that other people don't? Because I bought in this morning. 196. He's proud of himself cuz I think he made $3 a share after he bought in at $196. >> which is 201. >> And then it went up 196. A friend of mine brought me to the Dallas Open tennis match. His niece was there. She was 11 years old and she had saved up $500. And she was thinking about investing for the first time. So obviously they asked me, you know, talk to her, what should she do? >> [snorts] >> She was thinking she would take $50 of the 500 to invest. I looked at her straight in the eyes. I said, if I were you, Weekly calls in Amazon. >> [laughter] >> 500 and then you get margin for another 500. 50 bucks and all the money. Well, her dad was right next to her and he heard all this. And I said, if I were you, I would take the whole $500 and I would tell your dad to borrow $500 of margin, that way you can invest $1,000 with your $500 and put all of it into Amazon on Monday. And she [laughter] her eyes got so wide. I was like, I think if you do that, there is a better than 50/50 chance you will make four times your money in the next 2 or 3 years, maybe even better. So that $500 can turn into $2,000 or more. So if you're right, then you'll get like a oh, that's [clears throat] awesome. Thanks so much. And if you're wrong, it's like daddy, where did my money go? Like I don't see it. And dad's like, sorry, Well, no, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I told her, I said, there [snorts] is a very small chance that this [clears throat] could go bad. Let's call it 1 or 2%. And you might lose all of your money. But you're young, you'll make it back. So if I'm telling you there's better than a 50/50 chance that you can make four times your money or there's only a 1 or 2% chance, in my opinion, that you might lose all of your money or most of it, does that sound like a good bet to you? And she said, yes. And I really what I wanted her to do was start thinking in probabilities. And I wanted her to start thinking about expected outcomes because that's something that investors do not do because our brains do not really allow us to analyze risk properly because we we generally are also risk adverse. So we can't make rational decisions about probabilities and outcomes. But like that was that I she was 11. But but by the way, part of this is that she was 11. If she was 70, I would not have said that to her. And I told her, I was like, you will make that $500 back in the worst of all worst-case scenarios. In fact, I will admit something. Before we left, I said, hey, I really want you to do this. If you lose all the money, I will pay you back all of it myself. And the dad was like, now that's a deal you should take. And I said, but in the 1% chance that you lose all your money, >> [gasps] >> I might be in really bad shape, too. So as long as I have the $500 to give you, I will personally give you that $500 back. Why do you continue to take these potentially life-altering bets when one can argue that you've already made it? If you already have all of this money saved up and yet you're digging your heels in more and more and taking on more margin and more margin, the quality of your life will not vary if you are right. But it absolutely will if you're wrong. But two reasons. One, part of it's the game. I've been in this game a long time. It's fun. I want to see what I can do. >> Yeah, he is. But he's like a smarter Togi. Togi's the person we're having on next who is maximum like degenerate gambler. But you're an educated Yeah, no, I'm not about that. Um part of it is it me I I have a mission and an an objective of what I'm trying to accomplish with my investment account, right? You guys know this. I have a foundation. I'm passionate about my founda- foundation for kids, uh for animal welfare and elder care. I want to build it into a billion-dollar foundation. There's no way that I'm going to have a billion-dollar foundation unless I take big risk around high conviction thesis that I have. And are you doing this in that account as well? Uh I'm not allowed to, unfortunately. So once the money gets in my foundation, I have to be relatively conservative. I can't even borrow on margin. So what I do is I I I ball in my regular account and then I give money to my foundation. So I grow it as aggressively as I can in my regular account and I have and in my private businesses and then I donate to the foundation and then it has to grow relatively conservatively which is so annoying, by the way. If I was able to invest in the foundation account like I do in my normal account, I would have 4xed it over the past, you know, 4 years since I started it, 3, 4 years. >> So you probably have maybe like say 70 million in your charity account and then you have like 10 or so personally that >> I I don't talk about exact numbers. Yeah. >> Okay. But I'll just say and when you say 80 million, just to be very clear, um the $20,000 that I initially invested has generated roughly 80 million dollars of returns over the past 17, 18 years. So then you have to take taxes, then you have to take life expenses. And as I've discussed with you guys before, I take the bulk of my money out every year that I make and I invest it in private companies. I'm invested now in almost, you know, 170 early stage companies over the past 17 years which is the biggest investment mistake I ever made because I don't generate outsized returns on those private companies. So I no longer do that. I no longer invest in early stage companies because my returns are generating north 70% annualized over the past 17, 18 years. And why would I take money out of a public portfolio that's generating 70 plus percent annualized returns and put them into private companies that's generating returns between, I don't know, 10 and 15% portfolio average. It took me a long time to realize the mistake I was making and to stop doing that. I don't regret doing it because I met so many amazing people over the past 17 years, hundreds of founders, interesting people, had a lot of fun along the way and it really expanded my network and and my horizon in terms of the things that I'm involved with. But if I was smart and about the money side of it, I would have done nothing but social arb trade on my phone. >> And you argue that most people should have an allocation in their portfolio for what you call risk assets. If you were to define what percentage people should have in risk assets and what exactly is a risk asset, that'd be great. Also, Graham, what percentage of your portfolio is {quote} risk assets? Do you include a Bitcoin ETF in that? Probably. What How would you define a risk asset? I call it the big money account. It's the You know, everyone has this like I'm going to get rich slowly attitude, which is awesome. I think it's a great attitude to have. Compound your money over time. It's relatively low risk and high likelihood that you will get rich over time if you follow those simple rules. But almost no one has an account that they can invest more aggressively like wealthy people do day-to-day, right? You have to have Like the Russians say, no champagne without risk. If you're not willing to take real risk, you're simply never going to get rich quick. So, there's no reason not to have that account. Uh the account should be different for everyone. It depends on your goals in life. Some >> a fully separate account? You would You would recommend like It really doesn't matter. All depends on your your ability to >> [sighs] >> be regimented. Yeah, compartmentalize. Compartmentalize. For me, it's not separate. I think for a lot of people, maybe it should be separate. Um and it depends on how important it is to you. I don't think it's money that you should put in from your own wallet, though. I think it's money that you should find from making trade-offs in your life, right? So, if you think about every dollar is a hundred dollars, all of a sudden you start finding money all over the place. You're clipping coupons, you're you know, washing your own car instead of taking it to the car wash. You're just making trade-offs in your life to save a dollar here, twenty dollars there. Every time you make a trade-off, you know, make your coffee at home, take the money you save and put it in your big money account. That's the money you take big risks with. That's the money that you make investments that might go to zero or might do something spectacular. Um you need to have that account because the rich just keep getting richer and richer because they all have that account. Every wealthy person has that. People that are not wealthy don't think they're allowed to have that and that's just a terrible mindset. You have to have that account. >> percentage do you think is worthwhile? It's not It's not If you're making trade-offs, it just organically grows from zero. So, it's how many trade-offs are you willing to make in your life when you start thinking about every dollar is a hundred dollars. Are you willing to skip the coffee at Starbucks for three hundred dollars cuz that three-dollar coffee is three hundred dollars if you invest it aggressively and you get a little bit lucky. So, would you not go to Starbucks for to three hundred dollars a day? Probably. For three dollars, maybe not. See See, when you start thinking of every dollar like a hundred, it changes the entire game and you're finding money everywhere. So, it starts to get really exciting because you're starting with five bucks and that account gets to grow really large. And it's because you're now thinking like a wealthy person thinks. You're You're investing in startups. You know, you're investing in options. You're investing in I don't know. I'm not a crypto guy, you know that, but if you want to do crypto, fine. But you're investing with leverage. So, for me, I maybe have ten or so percent of my portfolio that's in {quote} risk assets. And by that, it's mostly just like Robinhood stock and Bitcoin, basically, is what my ten percent is, which might be less than ten percent I'm seven to eight. Seven to eight percent? >> Yeah, but that's really just a Bitcoin ETF. Yeah, that's So, it's mostly just Bitcoin, realistically, and a couple other single stock picks outside of Very I mean, that that is a small percentage. It's different for everyone, guys. It's not about what percentage of your capital is there, it's about how you think about that capital. And if all the capital that ended up in the big money account was capital that was other people's money and that you won through a trade-off in your life, then you're not worried about losing it. If it's money you pulled from your kids' college savings, and we should talk about college in a minute, but if it's money that you're pulling from a retirement account, you're going to feel really guilty buying stock options with it. >> Yeah. And it's not responsible. What jobs are going to be completely annihilated from this? Like I was talking to a buddy who was thinking about becoming a lawyer and my first thought was, well, that's going to be replaced in five years. Like why go to school for that? Yeah, um certain There There is a reck- kind of a reckoning coming. We kind of have this like this this transformational period. And it is a little scary to think about, but we really shouldn't be that scared about it. Uh there are jobs that are where there's a lot of automation or doing the same thing over and over again or it's simple intelligence that will just get cut. Um however, if you're working in an industry If you're trying to figure out what industry is going to be safer, um industries where there's a moat. So, there could be a data moat, a distribution moat, a regulatory moat like healthcare or finance. Um where AI is not going to be permitted to just come in and you know, rapidly take over the entire industry. Um there are also moats when it comes to brand. Um there are moats as it relates to people's relationships. There are trust moats. So, you have to ask yourself, is this profession or is this company or is this career path is there a viable moat that will help protect it from AI moving too quickly to displace everybody within this sector? So, just think about all the things I talked about like regulatory, distribution, data, reputation, trust, relationships, brand. Those are all really meaningful moats and you should be thinking about how you leverage those moats for yourself because I think if you have a brand, if you have great relationships, if you're in an area where people trust you, AI's not going to displace you easily. So, it's not all scary. And by the way, there are new jobs that will come out of this AI revolution. There are new industry sectors that will pop up out of it. We're already seeing it, right? Like it's not just like everybody pulling from the same pie. The pie is going to get bigger and bigger and bigger over time, right? So, industry will get bigger. Opportunity will get bigger. I just told you there are millions of companies that all need an AI guy right now. The same way millions of companies all needed a social media person back in the day. They all needed a search marketing person back in the day. The difference is that with agentic AI, every single person could be that person. All you have to do is spend a few days watching some videos and learning and you're in. You're done. What about the movie industry? I saw one on X recently where the this person did this entire AI like three-minute trailer and it looked incredible. It's like this lady in New York and all of a sudden it's like bomb comes and hits and she gets in a Cybertruck and drives around. And they're saying this was a two hundred million dollar movie that was created in a day for minimal cost. Another moat is taste, obviously. And I saw that same clip. I thought it was pretty horrible. I thought visually that was impressive what it could do. Would you Would you watch the movie? Uh Just Just objectively, if you didn't think it was AI. So, don't even think it was AI. Just like would you watch it? No, but that was because the Cybertruck had engine sounds and it just to me that took me out of it. It's inevitable that video AI is going to take over everything and all of our cinema, right? It It It that will happen. It It's almost a guarantee that will happen in time. We soon will theoretically have user-generated content for every single product in the world. And that user-generated content might eventually be customized just for you, Graham, or you know, just for you. Um it Where we can go with this, who knows? Like I think it's really important for us not to try to think about where we're going to be in seven or eight or nine years because there's too much happening right now right this second. In fact, getting back to your question about why Amazon, this AI efficiency wave, I think, might be the last big generational investing opportunity um within the AI sector. So, you have to think about what companies will be able to operate at meaningfully [clears throat] less uh uh uh employee count and meaningfully less cost without sacrificing output. In fact, what companies could actually decrease their cost meaningfully while meaningfully increasing their output? And I cannot think of another company in the world that will benefit from the AI efficiency wave more than Amazon will. And that's why I'm taking this big big bet on Amazon because that is just a tailwind that will continue to give year after year after year. And I know everyone is so concerned about the two hundred billion dollars that Amazon just committed to CapEx. It's part of the six hundred and fifty billion dollars uh that big tech in the US committed to CapEx just this year. I don't think it's too much. I think it's too little. In fact, I think that's just a down payment on what's to come in terms of CapEx spend. And I think if there's a concern, it's that we're spending too little, not too much on CapEx right now. Why is China such a big threat to the United States? Because China has the ability to move independently from the companies that operate in China. When when China decides that they want that this is important, they can put the full resources of the country behind it. And that's exactly what they're doing with artificial intelligence. It's what they're doing with robotics right now. They have a national mandate to lead the world in artificial intelligence and robotics and automation. And they don't have to convince companies, they don't have to convince investors, they could just move on it. Also, one might say that they have a lower ethical threshold for how they get there. So, [snorts] there are a lot of rumors circulating about Chinese models that are essentially just stealing our state-of-the-art models and building on top of them at a much lower cost, right? The same way that China has been doing that with a lot of our technology over the past few decades. So, there are some advantages there if you're willing to play dirty, which they are. >> What disadvantages do you think China has? Do you think they have access to the same level of talent that we have in the United States? >> [gasps] >> I think they're getting there, yeah. In fact, the one disadvantage that China has had historically is they really haven't had had that like entrepreneurial spirit, that like cowboy spirit that we've had here in the US. But I'm seeing that change. And because I'm so deep in the robotic space, I I've seen some things the last 2 years that have really impressed me. And I've had a lot of my friends travel throughout China and visit a lot of these small robotics labs. And it's tiny little companies. It's tiny little backroom young people experimenting. They've caught the entrepreneurial bug in China. Probably the same way that they caught so many things from the West, right? They wear our clothes now. They like our trends. They like So, it's shouldn't really be a surprise that they were inspired by our entrepreneurial spirit and have adopted that, too. So, in recognizing the fact that Amazon could be the company to benefit the most from AI adoption, decrease their costs, more output, more profit, you have invested, I'm guessing, a lot into the company. It's probably now your your biggest holding, would you say? Yes. Amazon is number one, your biggest holding. And you don't have an expected time horizon on any of this? Or how do you determine on the daily that I need to go in deeper? Like what is the logic? And what's the price target that you're hoping for and that you're looking to buy in at? I never look at price. I never have price targets. Um what I care about is information asymmetry, and that's all I care about. I look at how institutional investors and retail investors look at Amazon. I see what they're worried about, and then I try to poke holes in their thesis or, you know, validate my thesis versus theirs theirs. And I do this every day when I have a big trade. So, anything that could remotely touch Amazon in any way, I'm assessing on a day-to-day basis. Uh trying to get to the ground truth. So, I understand where their concerns are with CapEx. I'm not concerned. In fact, I think Amazon's spending too little on CapEx right now. I'm probably the only person in the world that thinks they're spending too little on CapEx. Um I think they are not fully appreciating the tailwinds that are coming of the efficiency wave for AI. That's the thing I was just speaking about, where Amazon will be the biggest beneficiary in the world for their retail business. They spent 15 years building a moat, a logistics and distribution moat globally, that takes an incredible amount of money and an incredible amount of time and resources to build out, and it's really expensive. And historically, Amazon's margins on products are really thin because of how much money they've had to spend to get products delivered to you in on now, like 2 hours. Yeah. Uh it will take a long time for AI and robotics and automation to play out across the entire chain of Amazon's facilities globally, but it's inevitable, it's coming, and it's not easily replicated by anyone else on Earth. The amount of CapEx budget that you need, the amount of resources you need, the amount of experience that you need, uh the local knowledge that Amazon has in every city around the world, this took 20-plus years to develop. Uh they are I love this so much cuz normally for me to find a company where there's this much information asymmetry, I have to go far beyond the mega caps. But the fact that I found so much what I believe to be information asymmetry with a mega cap that's highly liquid is amazing. And how could you be wrong? I think there's a real risk on the retail business, them getting uh displaced by another front-end artificial intelligence. So, if the entire world moves to Open AI ChatGPT, we have over a billion people using ChatGPT every day. If ChatGPT decides to show you product links that are outside of Amazon, that's a problem for Amazon. Cuz instead of going to Amazon, if you use your agent to buy everything and to assess what is the best I don't know. What is the best popcorn to buy? Your agent will decide that and then buy it for you, and it will buy it for you from someone other than Amazon if it thinks it can get it a little cheaper or if they can make more money doing that. So, you've heard about the rumors going around where Amazon's maybe going to invest as much as $50 billion in Open AI. I think that's a big part of the reason why they're doing that. They get a chunk of Open AI, but I think there will also be a side letter agreement in that deal basically giving Amazon preference over product queries that come off of ChatGPT. That's just my thesis, but Amazon is not dumb. I'm not the only one seeing that threat. Amazon obviously knows the threat is there. And I think that's why they're probably willing to invest so much money in Open AI. Now, one of the biggest growth hacks when it comes to business is recognizing that you don't have to do everything yourself. Some of the best businesses out there aren't working more hours, they're just delegating smarter. And that's exactly where our sponsor Upwork comes in. Upwork is a one-stop platform to find, hire, and pay expert freelancers across software development, marketing, business operations, and more. Instead of spending weeks recruiting or hiring someone full-time, you could bring in specialized freelancers whenever you need them. You're able to completely look through everyone's profile, so nothing is left to be discovered. As an employer, you can check out all of their past work and even get help defining the role, so you can hire confidently and get started quickly. Whether you just need help for a singular project or you need ongoing support for a business you're operating, Upwork connects you with specialized talent in over 125 categories. Upwork also takes care of contracts and payments all in one place. This helps reduce the hassle of managing operations so that you could actually focus on growing the business. It's completely free to sign up, and posting a job is incredibly easy. Visit upwork.com right now to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That is upwork.com. Once again, upwork.com. There's also a link down below in the description. Just click it right there. Thank you so much to Upwork for sponsoring this video. When you run a successful business, there's a point most people reach where things are good. Money's coming in, the business is growing. But it's hard to know what to set aside for taxes, who's been paid, or where your expenses are going. It gets stressful really quickly. Now, realistically, most businesses don't fail because of a bad idea, they fail because the owner never gets true control over their finances. And that is where our sponsor Relay is there to help. Relay is a business banking platform designed to give small business owners more control and visibility over their cash flow. What I really like about Relay is how it sets you up in actual structure. You can open up to 20 checking accounts, so it's easy to keep income, taxes, payroll, and savings separate instead of just mixing everything together. It's actually like having digital envelopes for your business. Relay also lets your team have their own logins with custom permissions. So, whether it's a bookkeeper or an assistant, they could help handle the day-to-day while you have full visibility. And when you need to pay vendors or contractors, Relay has bill pay built in. You can send ACH payments, wires, or checks directly from the same platform without jumping between tools. Relay also connects everything directly with Xero and QuickBooks, which keeps everything organized and your books tidy without any extra effort. For many business owners, getting this right means the difference between constantly putting out fires and finally having room to grow. So, if you want a system that supports your business, scan the QR code on the screen or click the link down below in the description to learn more about Relay. Thank you so much, and now let's get back to the episode. What are your other main holdings aside from Amazon? And I'm curious what happened with Bloom Energy. Okay. What do you mean what happened with them? Well, you put a million bucks in that one day when the market was dumping, and then I think you bought much more when Bloom went down. >> Yeah, I have a lot more in that in Bloom Energy. Bloom Energy is is a thesis that revolves around speed to compute. So, there is a race to get compute online because the demand for compute globally is insatiable. And most people like myself feel like we are going to be short compute for years and years and years. And that's why big tech is spending $650 billion this year to build out more compute. However, compute uh is bottlenecked by energy. And what's happening right now is a lot of cities and counties are saying, "Hey, if you data centers are going to suck up all this energy, you can't do that uh and also screw the people that live here and the small businesses by having their energy rates go up by 2x. So, there's this new kind of uh legislation that's popping up in cities called you got to bring your own energy, right? Like if you want to build a data center here, fine, but figure out your own energy. You're not tapping into our grid. You're not going to like increase our energy cost uh for our residents." Bloom Energy is one of the only companies in the world uh that has a method to essentially uh bring almost an infinite amount of energy to these data centers. Uh and we won't get into all the technology, but they are now working with hyperscalers and they are a resource for energy that will allow a data center to get ramped up quicker. So, even though it costs a little bit more money today uh to put an energy cell from Bloom, an energy box from Bloom, which are energy cells, it essentially takes things like natural gas, but instead of burning the natural gas, there is a chemical process that turns that natural gas into energy for the data center. And it's just a fascinating technology they've been working on for 20 years. So, Bloom is the theoretical fix [snorts] to this big energy problem. Now, the other theoretical fix is nuclear. And you've seen all these nuclear companies, you've seen small uh modular nuclear reactor companies. Uh I think you know, at crazy valuations, right? Because that's the other fix. But that fix is still a few years away from being deployed where Bloom is deployable like right now today. And that's why Bloom is up, I don't know, 6-700% over the course of the last year. Now, that said, Bloom is not a technology company. They are a technology company, but they're not perceived as a technology company historically by Wall Street. So, they have energy analysts covering them who do not believe in artificial intelligence for the most part. The technology analysts don't really understand stand Bloom because they're not covering Bloom. So, it's this weird company that was an energy company, but actually they're a technology company and should be covered like a technology company. So, it's really volatile. The stock trades all over the place because nobody really fully understands it. So, one of my very close friends spent I would say 5 months deeply researching Bloom uh wrote one of the most comprehensive reports on Bloom Energy in fortunately, he just happened to be a close friend of mine. And I spent a lot of time with him and got to learn a lot about Bloom and that's why I made a big bet on Bloom this last year. Can we just link that down below? Yeah, yeah, Jean Shou Dong and I think I've retweeted his report. I think it sits on LinkedIn. Okay. Yeah, we'll just link it down below if you guys want to read it there. What would you say are the other most mispriced assets right now? I think all the AI stocks are potentially mispriced uh because there's a lot of confusion and a lot of doubt and a lot of concern about the unknowns around AI. I continue to think that the supercycle is going to be bigger than anything we ever experienced in our lifetime. And that Nvidia, Amazon, Oracle, Meta, I think all of them are going to benefit way more than we're anticipating, but there are risks. Each of those companies has risks. Like Oracle and Microsoft have concentration risk related to OpenAI. If OpenAI doesn't raise, you know, $100 billion and have a successful IPO, then they simply won't have the capital to spend on compute and data centers that are in the earnings projections for Oracle and Microsoft. Uh Amazon is fairly concentrated into Anthropic, right? Anthropic builds their models on top of Amazon's Tranium chip. And if something bad happens to Anthropic, that could be a big negative for Amazon. Now, by the way, there's rumors out this week that you know, we're about to see DeepSeek-4 come out, right? And it's going to be 20 times more efficient than the US models. And you'll be able to do the same thing with a lot less compute. The same way we had the DeepSeek scares, remember? Like a year ago, we're having those same scares. That could be something that completely wrecks the market in the AI trade. However, I believe that long-term the cheaper compute gets, we're just going to come up with more things to do with it. So, if you make compute 10 times cheaper, we will come up with 100x the ways to utilize that compute. If we figure out how to make compute so cheap that Hollywood can make an amazing movie that you cannot decipher from a real film and they could literally make the whole movie on a computer without having any of the actors have to take 4 months off of their life, I think that will happen. And then if the compute gets so cheap that that could be done by anyone, I think it will be done by anyone. And then if we get to a point where every single human gets their own version of that movie with their own favorite actors and maybe they're in the movie, I think we will go there. I I don't know how far we're going to go with what we can create in our minds of what would be an enriching, amazing life to have on this earth, but I have absolute confidence that every time we figure out how to make this cheaper and better, that we are going to come up with a new use case for it that's even cooler that's going to need more of it. That's my overall thesis on AI and why I'm going all in on these stocks. What question, if answered, could completely change your investing philosophy? >> [sighs and gasps] >> I think um probably the biggest thing that I'm concerned about and worried about right now uh is the existential risk that AI poses to the economy, to humanity, to the world. I think there is a real chance that we blow ourselves up. I hate saying that. There are almost an infinite number of ways that can happen, of course. You know, I think the one that I want to say the Anthropic CEO recently brought up, which is on my mind and a lot of people's minds are, you know, uh the next virus, right? That's AI designed. Uh the artificial intelligence is getting recursive over the last few weeks. So, OpenAI basically came out with their model called Codex. And in kind of the the log of how that model was formed, they admitted that the AI is now writing itself and improving itself. So, that's the thing that we've all been worried about the last few years. That is the big existential risk. Once the AI starts writing itself, it starts to accelerate how good it is and what it's capable of doing. Um so now we're actually you know, over the course of the last year, AI was mostly the same. And then we get a little model bump, right, guys? But it was mostly the same over the past year. What we're seeing over the course of the last few weeks is acceleration. And we do not know where that acceleration is going to take us because now agents that are in there making the code better, right? We have agents that are figuring out how to make the next AI. And when that starts happening, we really do not have a sense for how quickly this moves. So, obviously when it's accelerating and moving quickly, that could result in a lot of really amazing things like our ability to have personalized feature-length films that are indistinguishable from what Hollywood has been producing. But it also has the ability to give bad actors uh the know-how to create a virus in their bedroom and to tell them exactly how to deploy that to destroy the world, okay? So, like as scary as that sounds, that's real, guys. And like I am not someone that was really that worried about it up until 2 weeks ago. So, how would you how would you express that as a question? Does AI move too quickly to the point where we can't contain it and control the negative consequences of it falling into the hands of bad actors? And if the answer to that is yes, it's moving that quickly and we're not able to contain it, we're not able to work together as as companies and as countries, if we're not able to collaborate with other labs, with China to say, "Hey, I know we're competing against each other, but this is more important." All right? So, the same way that we did with nuclear arms, right? We all wanted to have the best and the most nukes. At some point, we all figured out that, "Hey guys, if we continue to go down this road, we're we're done. We're all cooked because someone that we don't want to have nukes is going to get the nukes. So, we have to come together and realize that our collective power, we have to ensure that no one else gets these nukes, and we're going to have to to also kind of tone it down ourselves here in terms of what we do with the nukes that we have." So, that was actually pretty miraculous. Um that's amazing. And we need to do the same thing again. Will we? Can we? Or is this Is this moving so fast that we don't even have the time and the right people and the right people in politics right now to actually sense what's happening and to put proper measures in place to have those conversations? >> already do this though? What makes AI so unique in that it could accelerate this to that degree? No. I mean, AI is bringing the cost of all intelligence down to close to zero. It's fully democratizing all intelligence. But like if someone wants to destroy humanity, they they did they won't have the ability today, but they might in a year from now? Yes. Yeah. I I think the ability to destroy humanity will get meaningfully easier uh with artificial intelligence and agnetic AI. I just told you how how a person with no technological know-how can create a business that would take dozens and dozens of employees and maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars and months to years of time, how your random friend from high school with no technical know-how can do that in 48 hours for $600 in their bedroom. So, that's a good thing. >> Mhm. But that person can also do something evil with $600 in their bedroom now because they have a whole army of super intelligent agents that can work with them and figure out how to put all the pieces of this master plan together, right? And how to actually enact it and do it. And so, what conclusion does your brain go to when you start asking yourself these questions? I don't let myself go it go there. It I I tell myself that I am not one of those people that can actually enact change. I hope there are people that will actually take those steps, who are working at the big labs, who are working in government. Um that's not me. So, I'm not I'm not going to like Why don't you give a message to the people watching because chances are there might be somebody in the [clears throat] group who can make a change, and listening to you might be the push they need to to get it over that edge? I hope someone can leverage this technology and this intelligence to help figure out how regular people can actually enact change with the head of of these labs and with government, right? Like Like you don't have to go out at alone. Let the AI help you figure out what we should be doing collectively. Everybody has their one political cause that they'll go to a rally for, they'll contribute money to. It's astonishing to me that more people aren't making this their cause because this is the thing that could just take us all down really quickly, and then nothing else actually matters. All your other causes don't really matter. So, I think a big part of it is people don't yet fully appreciate how real it is and what's happened in the last 2 weeks. And that's purely because of the AI agents. That's correct. >> that. That's correct. So, I was seeing it explode online unlike anything I've seen in a long time. The use of it was originally like Claude code, right? Is like what they would or Claude bot is what they would say, and then it turned into open claw, right? So. >> Well, what By the way, also, you know, Codex by OpenAI again being, you know, outwardly coming out and saying, "Hey, we're using the AI is now writing itself and now improving itself." That's a big piece of it as well. So, there are a couple things going on here. There's agnetic AI, but there's also the fact that these labs have figured out how to leverage the AI itself to improve itself. But it's not your job to predict the future in terms of how will this all play out? Will humanity end up destroying itself or will we end up being able to come to agreements with competitors and thrive because of it? It's your job to be able to see in a snapshot present tense right now for what it is, and then find asymmetrical information, stuff that you can see for what the reality is and other people they don't see it that way, and you can make money off that difference. That's exactly correct. Um I'm more focused on uh properly assessing the ground truth that is the present as opposed to trying to predict the future. And there's so much happening in the present. It's changing every day, and the amount of misinformation and noise has never been bigger, which means that the opportunity for someone who's able to properly assess what's real and what's not real is huge. So, do you think kids these days should go to college to learn or should they just spend 6 hours a day learning AI? Um it's it's it's funny because I've always been, you know, pretty hard on my kids when it comes to them doing well at school and not missing class. One of my kids uh recently they turned 16 recently, and they drive themselves to school, and they slept in, and I was so astonished at first. I was like, "I cannot believe Like how does that even happen?" Like if I would have done that when I was a kid, I the thought of what my parents would have done to me. And like but there was part of me in the back of my head that was like, "Does it even matter anymore?" I'm just like I'm looking at my kid going, "Why are you even in school right now?" I know that seems crazy, and I can't really say that to them, but I'm like, "Does any of this really matter at all right now? Like what are you even doing?" Like the world is moving so quickly, I can't even imagine the stuff that you're learning how slowly it And by the way, guys, I mean, it's gotten to a point where every single kid in America is using AI for every single assignment and every single test. It's actual I don't think people realize it's like close to 100% of every high school and college student is using AI for close to everything that they do. How do you How do you prevent that? Because let's just say because I'm thinking if if I get like a math page, I'm just taking a a photo of it, uploading it to Gemini, and saying, "Do these problems. Show me the math. Show me how you did this." And it's just like I just copy it. Like how do you prevent against that? And is that even Are test scores decreasing because the kids aren't learning? Like I'm sure that's a pretty easy study to find. >> I I actually So, because I use AI all day every day, um like a maniac, I actually think the AI is making me smarter because I'm spending less time Like I won't spend, you know, hours just arguing at myself over like a the wording in a three-page brief. Going back and forth with the AI to kind of cultivate a paper, um to understand certain elements of it and to enhance it, is such a better use of my Like I'm learning so much by having the AI do 95% of the work because you don't trust the AI completely, right? And you still need to make sure that you you know, you're bringing your own taste and your own your your own kind of like you want to bring your own tone to whatever you're writing or turning in, and and you still want to have some element of yourself in that. I think I think these kids are probably learning way more using the AI than if they were doing it the old way. Even though the AI is doing almost everything for them because it's just so quick, and they're not wasting I mean, how much time did we waste just on stupid stuff when it came to school? Like it seems ridiculous, quite honestly. Um the AI And by the way, at some point, the AI is just going to teach the kids personalized, customized. That's what I think. >> Yeah, it's I think what it's going to get at some point in the future is like a neural link that basically you pay a subscription to, and you could download whatever information you want. So, if you want to be fluent in Japanese, you pay a subscription, 99 bucks a month, you download fluently Japanese, and all of a sudden you just understand it. And then maybe as soon as you just stop paying this the ability goes away, but it's able to like download information and assimilate in your brain in such a way that you could just know everything. Did you watch a lot of sci-fi when you were a kid? No, not necessarily. >> Every time we talk about a a progression, you make a quantum leap with it. >> [laughter] >> Every single time. And everything you're saying is true, but I think far down the road. Uh but yeah, you No, no, you're right. >> was watching Pluribus and having a collective knowledge, and me thinking, "Well, we have a collective knowledge already online. Everything is already there. It's just not in our heads. But what if all of us learned and can progress equally because what you learn, I pick up instantly. And then what I learn, Jack picks up instantly. And then we could all share that knowledge globally. I mean, think of the things that like we could cure cancers. We could fix so many things. Every problem that society has, we would understand it from that person's point of view. But But Graham, the AI is already doing that because it already has access to everything that we have ever expressed that has come out of all of our collective brains. So, that's what I was trying to explain earlier when it when it recreated this entire business venture and podcast that I had around this totally new person, the complexity involved in that and the number of discrete elements that it brought into it. It brought in like 60 different things. I can't even imagine. It would have take me a year just to find all these different elements that it thought might be relevant for this exercise that I wanted it to go through. It was using the collective brainpower of an infinite number of people and past content in order to kind of contextualize and to sculpt something brand new for me. It's already doing that. We already have Pluribus. It's just not fully connected inside of our brain yet. Like but it's already here kind of. And if not like very quickly. >> Yes. It's here. The smartest people I speak to and I have access to some really interesting people um in that world and they have all told me that, you know, if we remove at the FDA process which takes forever, they really believe we're going to cure like every single disease within 10 years. Like they're like just live 10 years. Like we don't know exactly how this is going to work with, you know, studies and delays and stuff, but we will have the tech to cure every disease in 10 years. They really believe that. Like these are people who have told me that. >> scans I've seen that they could detect certain cancers and and illnesses way before a doctor might even know what's going on because you don't even have symptoms. Do you think AI should be able to replace humans in the courts or in policy decisions? Yes. And how long do you think that'll be before someone goes to court and their AI argues against the government's AI? It's going to call out all of uh the information gaps. So, anywhere where there's an information gap because maybe someone a a juror isn't able to mentally process something or maybe an attorney forgot to say something or they said it in a way that didn't resonate with the juror. The AI is not going to miss that. So, it's going to catch all the information gaps. It's going to catch all the biases. It's going to solve all of those problems and be so much better, okay, than any human would be. And I think that's going to benefit everyone. It's going to benefit for real estate transaction, it's going to benefit both the buyer and the seller because they're going to know that negotiation was negotiated with perfect information. I think in a court situation, this is one of those regulated industries. I think there will always be a human over it. I don't say always, but for a very long time. But I think the human Okay, at the tennis match I went to on Friday, this is wild. It was the first time I'd ever been to a sporting event. The the the line judge didn't call anything. The AI did. This is I didn't know I don't watch tennis, so I had no idea. People who watch tennis probably Yeah, we've known that for years, but the AI called every shot. And if it was close, it would show it on video as an instant replay for everyone to see to make sure that we know that the AI was right. Okay? And there was still a line judge there. I don't know what they were doing because even the voice that would come out was an AI voice. It was awesome. >> Line judge union is what it's coming from, right? And after you employ one person >> And I've been saying this cuz I I you know, my my kids have been doing youth sports forever. And the big thing with youth sports, if you guys ever have kids and you're going to find out, like people take it way too seriously. And there is horrible arguments between parents. There's yelling. There's curt I mean, it's wild. I'm like, gosh, why can't we just And by the way, the talent that you get to like be a ref for fifth grade football, okay? Maybe not the best talent in the world, right? >> You might be one of the yellers is what I'm seeing. I don't know. >> I know. You really No. I No. No. That's my wife, not me. I I'm totally even keeled when it comes to this stuff. But I was like, man, why can't we have AI for this? This would just solve so This would make our community stronger. >> the it's genuinely the unions is what I've heard because I asked myself the same exact question. On TV, they have the strike zone in baseball. And even if the ball shows that it's in the strike zone, the commentators can say, "Oh, wow. Yeah, he missed that strike. The umpire called that a ball, but that was a strike." It's like, "Well, if it was a strike, then call it one." Yeah. So, I listen I I I I think there's an emotional element. There's discretion. There's nuance uh where you need a human to make the ultimate decision, okay? But I think the human will be able to make a much better decision with the assistance of AI. Let the AI basically make the decision for you and then you can overrule it. Um but I think wouldn't everyone benefit? If you're on a jury, wouldn't you like to have an AI basically create the perfect assessment of the case? But then yeah, it depends if you're guilty or not. Okay, but but like you All right, fine. I I I think it's inevitable. I I think with government, does anyone believe that our government officials are making the best decisions for the best reasons, okay? Like can we all agree that government would be massively enhanced >> Oh, 100%. But the government Well, we all agree except the government. True. True. But But They would argue that they employ a lot of people who rely on that income. Well, I hate that argument. I I I I hate that argument because I don't care if we got to take that income and just reroute it to the same people to have them do something else that's actually benefiting humanity. Let's just tax it, take it, redistribute it, have them work as uh Community service by community service, uh help have them help the elderly, have them be advocates for the sick. There are animal welfare. There are a billion things that humans can be doing that will actually benefit humanity. Let's not have them do something just to do something that an AI can do better. Let's Let's Let's put them doing something else and not take their income away. Let's Let's fig- Let's Let's leverage the AI to figure out how we make the transition, this AI transition which is going to be super difficult. I I bet the AI can help us figure it out. How do we get these people that are about to be displaced in a better place? How do we get them through the transition into better jobs? It's not going to be easy. The best thing is for the first time ever, we have like a massive intelligence to help us figure this out. We don't have to do it alone. So, because I think a lot of people are tuning into this episode, we're going to title it something that has to do with the market and AI. What stock would you say is maximum risk but maximum opportunistic? I think that Google is such a fascinating company because they have 80 roughly 85% of their revenue is tied into a legacy search business that is at risk of getting completely displaced by AI queries, whether they're Google AI queries from Gemini or coming from Open AI or from any number of other places. The bulk of their revenue is at risk. However, Google is making moves that are maybe more ambitious than any other frontier lab in the world towards super intelligence and to solving some of the world's biggest problems. And I think Google actually has a pretty good degree of trust globally because of the legacy value of what they've done over the past few decades that they could be the company to solve all the biggest worlds the world's biggest problems and be trusted to actually put those solutions in place. So, when I think about Google, there's a tremendous amount of short-term risk there. But in the long term, they are probably positioned better than anyone else to hit a grand slam. And I hope they do because everything that they're working on is for is generally for good, right? Um It's a fascinating company. Tesla, even more so, is so committed to the ultra long game, specifically with their play in robotics. Um that the concept of owning the full stack on an infinite labor machine that can rebuild the Earth and essentially create new industries from the ground up is probably the biggest theoretical win that any company could have. Um and Tesla, because they still kind of operate under Elon like an early-stage company, if and I'm going to say if, cuz I haven't seen the goods yet, Optimus 3 should be shown in the next 6 months. >> [sighs] >> If they crack the code on generalized robotics, Tesla could be the biggest winner. But they have to show the goods. Like they have to actually execute on that. Um I think Elon is willing to move quicker and do more ambitious things than any CEO on Earth. Uh so, again, if generalized robotics materializes like I think it will over the next 5 to 10 years, I think Tesla might be in the pole position to benefit more than any other company on Earth because you're creating an infinite labor machine and we can't even wrap our head around what that means for the future of industry. Who do you think is the best founder? I think that >> [gasps] >> Oh, boy. To date? Mhm. Alive [clears throat] now? God, that's a I think Jensen. Mhm. I think Jensen, uh no one would have done what he did. The risks that he took on, the projects that he took on 12, 13 years ago that brought us to the compute that we have today. Um is just absolutely astonishing that he did that. He put that entire company at risk time and time again and not one person bought that it was a good idea. Like I speak to people that knew Jensen back then and they're like, he was freaking crazy. Like we all thought he was nuts. Like because the he was talking about doing things that clearly wouldn't pay off for like a decade plus and who would have thought? The the The chipsets that they're on right now? Uh I would say you'd have to give it to Jensen, but you'd also have to give a nod to a guy who is technically no longer CEO, but Demis Hassabis at Google DeepMind. So, he was founder and CEO of DeepMind, which was acquired by Google. But Demis Hassabis is probably the guy that you would have to attribute um most of the breakthroughs that we have today beyond the chip itself that we have to attribute Jensen and his team to, right? So, I'd say Jensen and Demis Hassabis uh would be the two guys that come to mind. Now, you got to have Elon's right up there, obviously. And I also think Vlad at Robinhood. You know, it's a it's a financial firm, so it's not it's not as sexy in terms of its you know, obvious you know, interaction with all people if you're not an active investor. But I think Vlad should be up there as well. Well, speaking of that, what are your thoughts on the prediction market trend? Yeah, I love prediction markets for one thing and one thing only in that it forces people to think about probability and outcomes. And I think thinking about probabilities and outcomes is the core um attribute that you have to have to be a great investor. So, the issue with prediction markets is it drives a tremendous amount of dopamine and it makes you think that you're investing when you're not. So, prediction markets operate out of a fixed pie. Mhm. So, there is a winner and a loser. So, every time somebody wins, somebody loses. There's there's no net gain in a prediction market. The world of investing is a constantly bigger pie every day, right? The entire global capital market and industry is getting larger every single year. And if you're an investor, you're trying to get a bigger piece of a growing pie. So, if you're going to play in one of those two games, which game do you want to play in? You want to play in a game where you're trying to get a bigger piece of a pie that's getting bigger every year as opposed to a pie that's always the same size, where there's always an equal winner and loser and then someone taking shaving a little bit. But do you think a lot of younger investors are going to start in placing investing with prediction markets and that's going to be their exchange? >> Yes, absolutely they will. Absolutely they will. >> And what's the risk of that? >> Um not all, by the way. I was a gambling addict when I was younger. Shouldn't surprise you guys, right? So, I would drive my car from Dallas to Shreveport uh and sit in poker rooms till 7:00 a.m. Uh when I moved to LA, I was in my early 20s, I would occasionally I'd I'd be out at night partying with my friends, 2:00 a.m. Everyone would go home. Uh I would drive down by LAX, there was a casino down there uh off of Century Boulevard, I think. And I would play poker with a bunch of 60-year-olds and I hated cigarette smoke and man, that that was the smokiest room ever. Again, till 6:00, 7:00 in the morning. So, uh I was in I was an out-of-the-money options addict in college. I would skip class. I would trade out-of-the-money options on a payphone in the basement of the business school. I would go broke every few weeks. I'd make more money, go broke, make more money, go broke. So, I know what it's like to chase that dopamine. I get it. It's it's a young man's game and it's part of the journey for most. Now, for most. Uh some people will never break out of it, but I have absolute confidence that most people will. Why? Our brains change, our lifestyles change, we mature. Um we get a family, come in this happens to every most every person and we have more investment education now than ever before. So, you start to see people around you and you see the guys that are just gambling with their money and what's happening to them in their lives and their bank accounts and then you see your friends that are investing on Robinhood in actual stocks and equities. You see the AI revolution happening right in front of you. You see news cycles about billion-dollar companies and trillion-dollar companies. It's not like you're not exposed to all this every single day. And especially when you get out of the fraternity house and you start working at a company and you're around professional people, it's an evolution of life and and most people will break out of it. Now, does it mean they're not going to play around in prediction markets for the rest of their life? No, of course. I still do it. I do it for fun, right? I don't know what percent I mean, it's such a nominal amount of my money when I do it. I'm really just doing it for fun. The same way when I go to Vegas, I'll hit up the worst odds card game like Caribbean Stud or something my money or something like that, 7, 8% of my money. But I do it because it's fun. >> Now, what's interesting is that I read a study that allegedly found that on Call Sheet, users lost an average of 27 cents for every dollar that they put on the platform versus sports betting where they lost an average of I believe it was 11 cents. And so, they argued that these prediction markets were actually worse for your finances than straight-up gambling. And that when you put gambling on an app that you primarily invest, it really blurs the line between what is gambling, what is prediction markets, what is investing. And because they make it so easy, it's like, well, you know, I could just do this coin flip over here. May as well and then I have more money to invest. I don't buy it. I I You lose money enough gambling on this and that, eventually your mind assesses the pattern subconsciously. It just does. You're not going to lose your money over and over and over again and just keep doing it for 50 years. >> down though. That's that's why you need to like just that's more. >> I've been there, Graham. I was a gambler, a problem gambler, when I was young. Most problem gamblers when they're young grow out of it. Some don't. Like I said, it's this is not black and white, but you your your brain does start to assess patterns and if the patterns are losing, losing, losing, you try different things. That that's the entirety of the human species and how human evolution happens, right? The weak go away, the strong survive. Even within our lifetimes, we're learning and we're getting smarter every day. And I just don't buy the whole thing where prediction markets just existing are going to lead to the collapse of society. I am more excited than I've ever been about the next generation becoming prudent investors because of these apps, because they're learning about probabilities, they're learning about outcomes, and they're also investing in stocks. I don't care that they're on the same app. It doesn't bother me one bit. There will always be anomalies, there will be exceptions to the rule, there's always people with gambling problems. Um that's never going to change, but as a general rule, I don't think it's a huge issue. So, if we're just to entertain the viewer and pull out some crazy lofty predictions, yeah. What would you say, just a one simple answer, is a company that you think will likely go bankrupt? I think eventually Duolingo goes bankrupt. And do you think that's just because people can spin up other apps that are going to be similar pretty simply with with open claw or that you know, I think you could just brain thing will be yeah, put in I think you could just talk to Gemini at this point. Mhm. Teach me Spanish and it just walks you through. You just have conversation with like you have your own tutor. I think your agents are going to know more about you than a third-party service will ever know about you. So, it will know it exactly how to teach you Spanish based on what you did that morning. So, it will actually teach you Spanish um based on some of the tasks that you need to complete that day. That you are probably not going to want to share with Duolingo. Okay? So, it's going to have better access to you, better information about you. It's going to be better positioned to teach you language and to teach you math and all the other stuff than some legacy company uh that doesn't have access to your day and everything and else that it's doing with you. Does that Does that kind of make sense? So, I don't think Duolingo is going bankrupt anytime soon, but I feel like the writing is on the wall that it will get eaten by the AI that's closer to you. What's going to happen to budgeting apps when pretty soon you could just plug in your finances and your bank accounts and your investment accounts to like Gemini or ChatGPT and that'll give you everything you need to know to optimize every single expense? So, you're saying what's happening to the apps now that are just plugins? >> Correct. They probably go away. And what happens at that point when all of a sudden ChatGPT is able to get access to your banking information and is able to say, "Hey, we could offer you these loans. We could offer you these products and services." It just seems like a huge untapped industry that will completely disrupt a lot of companies. It's massive. Guys, in in the early 2000s every single ad was a pop-up ad that wasn't even for the gender it was shown to. Okay? That's how bad advertising was in the early 2000s on the internet. You were mostly seeing ads for women as a guy or you were mostly seeing ads for an a 70-year-old or someone that has this weird thing like that's what it used to be and look at where we are today. Like and we all complain about it, but let's be honest like the ads are pretty good today. >> They're really good. >> They're really good, right? I'm not even upset by them anymore. >> Yeah. Do you I mean, the amount of friction in our life is actually insane. The amount of time that I spend every day with enormous amounts of friction doing all the stuff you're talking about my agent should just have it all down. It should have access to everything. It should just know everybody should know everything. Everything should be customized to me and I shouldn't even have to think about it. >> What's crazy is that I did uh taxes recently for the Index, which is that group that you met up with with the link down below in the description. I was able to do the entire year of taxes in 5 minutes. And all I did, I uploaded every single statement, every single credit card statement, every single bank statement and it categorized every expense and when it had a question, it asked me how to categorize a certain thing. And it broke everything down in 5 minutes and then it went through double-check a few like random things to make sure it was correct and it was correct. I've never seen it actually get numbers correct before to this degree. Ever. In 5 minutes, the whole thing was done. I spend a solid week of my life every year doing taxes. >> Yes. And by the way preparing taxes for my CPA. A whole week of my life. >> That's what I do. One week of the 52 weeks is spent just aggregating stuff. >> [sighs and gasps] >> For How is that even possible? Like what a waste of a life. >> Yeah. I take a weekend. I take a full weekend and I lock myself in the room and I'm like, all right, I'm going to go through this, this and this and I write down everything and I make sure it's all categorized properly and I double-check things and sometimes even between Jack and I, I'm sending Jack numbers and Jack's like, well, I did it on my end and we came up with like a few hundred dollar discrepancy and we have to find which one of us is correct and incorrect. We are going to We are all going to have so much more time to do real stuff once a generative AI takes off and we're just not bothered by admin work. I mean, and if you look at the admin work we're doing just as people, I mean, the admin work that exists inside of companies globally it's just so ridiculous. I'm like I said, I always come back to a good place. If we don't blow ourselves up uh we're going to be in such a good place as long as we can manage through the transition. Going to be hard. >> [laughter] >> If we can get if AI will just help us through the transition I am so optimistic. I am you know, I don't listen to Elon when he talks about all this crazy stuff cuz his timelines are off by a factor of 10, but I am a huge believer in the age of abundance. I think the age of abundance is actually going to happen and I think it's not going to be an overnight thing, but I think it's all about people that all get to live like we live for the most part. I don't think it's this thing where everybody's going to be infinitely wealthy like Elon says but I think there is a point where most of the people in the world get to live like we live at the top of the first world. And how could we not be excited about that? Like that that's kind of insane. I think we are going to cure almost all the diseases we have today. I think we're going to get to spend more time with people we love and get to do things that we like. I think there'll be more stuff like people spending, you know, 16 and a half million dollars on a Pokémon card in 15 years. I think that's going to become norm because we're going to get to lean into our passions. Oh, by the way if you look at history, anytime there's been like a technological jump, even before we called it technology, there's always been like an equal amount of thirst for the opposite. So, I think all the stuff that's offline is going to come back. It's nostalgic. >> hard physical assets? It's not even about assets, it's how you spend your time. So, I think people are going to like thirst for all the cool stuff that AI brings to the world and how it makes our lives easier and better and all the instantaneous intelligence, democratizing intelligence. You want to create a business, you can create a business. Anybody can, right? You want to create a movie or a TV show that's in your head, you can just create it. That's awesome, but then I think there will be an equal amount of desire to do things that are interpersonal, that are totally disconnected from technology. And like like I said, if you look at history, that there's there's usually that like even split when something like this happens and I think that's going to be really cool because it will awaken us and we'll start appreciating like the nostalgic interpersonal stuff that I think we've already got like the last transition we've been going through since social media has kind of sucked. Let's be honest, right? Like we we all agree it's too much. We need to get away from it and I think it's time and I'm starting to see signs of that. I'm starting to see like you know, uh you know, I own Collect-A-Con. It's the largest Pokémon trade show in the world and it is booming. I mean, we have like 15, 20,000 people coming to every show and there's no phones out. People are playing card game. Now, it's a niche of people, right? Um but I'm kind of like I'm kind of seeing it all over. People There's a thirst for it. People want to do stuff. Like at my restaurants, I've never seen this before. The last few months, I'm starting to see groups of people playing cards and games at my my restaurant and my bars. Like groups of women will come like I saw people playing dominoes and there's people playing mahjong and there's people like people this all started happening in the last few months and it's super weird and I don't I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. We're very early but I think that will be the next like a next big like super trend that we see cuz there's going to be resistance with the AI stuff. There's going to our brains can only tolerate so much change at once. So what should people be investing in if it's not AI? Like what other like the Pokémon card that sold for 16 million? Are there other things like that collectibles that you think are going to be doing really well? Um yeah, I mean I I would just say look look for things where you have motes that AI cannot penetrate. You know, AI is never going to fully be able to penetrate things where there has to be physicality. Now, one day will we have robots? Yes, I'm a big robot advocate but the the world where we have billions of robots is not happening in the next few years. So if there has to be physicality, relationships are super important. Any type of job or industry or company where trust is super important. Um where there's regulations, uh where there's a high degree of nuanced taste involved. I think those will be relatively protected. So you just have to look for things that AI can't just displace and I think those things get bigger not smaller over time. If you had a billion dollars and you just could Hail Mary that into any stock, this stock could have huge risk, huge loss, uh what would it be? Short term short term so not long term. Can I split it between two stocks or no? >> Yeah. I'm going to split up to my favorite two stocks, Bloom and Amazon. Mhm. And that's short term? Even short term. I cannot pinpoint when the market will fully start to appreciate and properly balance the positives versus the theoretical negatives on a company like Amazon and Bloom. Uh but I think every month that we go where the market is more likely to see it. What is one stock everyone should own at least a little of? You have to own Amazon. I mean absolutely have to own Amazon. The I the next question was what stock has what stock obviously has the most long-term like potential? Like in terms of information asymmetry and that would be Amazon. Like the information asymmetry is so obvious that it wouldn't be difficult to find. Uh there is a company in Japan called Rigado and they make the 3D imaging machines that are able to assess if there is anything not working or broken or misaligned in a computer chip or a memory chip and the way that AI is progressing right now, you could think about the way chips were made historically. They were very flat, right? It was very easy to kind of visually see um if the circuitry was correct in that chip. Well, now chips are getting very dense. If you look at the next generation and generation after that Nvidia platforms, everything is becoming stacked now. So data centers are about to become way more dense. The the servers, the chipsets, everything is is now like it's it's going from a one-story house to like a tower. A lot of sophistication, uh a lot of circuitry, a lot of stuff going on for a simple person. Like we won't get too into the minutia of it all. It's an extraordinarily expensive and if you go ahead and put these chips, whether it's a memory chip, whether it's a GPU, uh inside of a stack inside of a data center and then find out it's not working, it takes that offline and is extraordinarily costly. So the value in being able to assess that all of the pieces of the compute that ultimately go into the data centers are working before they actually get implemented and deployed is becoming exceptionally important because the cost of having it go down later is really bad. Also, you want to be able to quickly assess what was wrong because if you manufactured a whole lot of these that have the same issue, you want to be able to stop that run and fix the issue. So this is like an unknown company in Japan. Uh I am in the process of trying to buy shares in it. The problem is to buy shares in a foreign company like that, sometimes they have ADRs. This one has an ADR but it's not traded with any real liquidity so I can't really put a lot of money into it. I have to open up a Schwab Global account which I do have. Uh Interactive Brokers will allow you to do this as well but even Schwab Global told me this last week that they didn't have the ticker set up to trade cuz no one in America has ever traded that ticker now. Oh yeah. First person in America So so I had to request that Schwab add the ticker to Global. Um it has to get approved and then added. So they're going to call me. They say they are more likely than not going to do it uh but they're going to call me once it's added and I will hopefully be the first person to purchase this through Schwab Global. They're going to buy they're going to front run you on this one. They're going to buy it first. Be like oh Chris is buying. All right, this is buy a little too. >> I'm going to dump the entirety of my Global account into this company uh which is a relatively small company that I think has asymmetric upside downside because their core business is fine. It is what it is but this AI business is totally new and just totally value add to their revenue stream, right? >> this company directly and just say hey, I want to invest in you. What could we work out? >> [sighs and gasps] >> I don't even like traveling like to another state. I'm not going to Japan. No, I mean they're a publicly traded company, right? So like if you want to buy you just buy them on the Japanese exchange. So just so you know how it works, it's actually kind of it's interesting. Most people don't understand that you can do this. You can buy almost any company in the world through something like Schwab Global but you have to open a Global account, then you have to transfer money into the Global account, then you have to buy the local currency first and that's where you really get hit with commissions because it costs like half of 1% to 1% depending on the currency to the currency trade. It's like it's 1986 with commissions. Then when you get the local currency, you could trade the stock and then you got to transfer it back into the US currency eventually, right? So I look for things like this all the time. I have people on my team that are looking for stuff like this. Uh it's getting harder and harder to find like true information asymmetry that's totally unknown in the AI space cuz all Wall Street is looking for it. But this is what I mean you asked for it. So so so that's it. I mean if you want to know, that's it. >> That's fascinating. I appreciate it and it's impressive how much research you got in there. That's quite phenomenal. Well, I I I have a partner. He has done the bulk of the research. In fact, um I'll get his permission to link it. I think he has a 70-page report. It'll be linked down below as well if we get the permission. But Chris, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour podcast and of course thank you for being flexible with the timing and everything. I mean we asked this relatively last minute so we appreciate that. Thank you so much to all of the viewers watching that have made it this far. We are so appreciative of you of course. Also a big thank you to our members who support the channel. Big shout out to you. Really appreciate it. And of course big thank you to Caleb Hammer because we are using his studio and it's very generous of him. So appreciate it. Thank you so much Chris. Until next time.