“The #1 Loophole!” - How VegasMatt Secretly Beats The Casino For Millions of Dollars

How much do you think [music] you've gambled in total? >> God only knows how much. Just an enormous amount. I think I probably gamble more than just about anybody. I don't know cuz I do it every day. >> We're going to gamble a million dollars today. >> Have you ever seen someone profitably beat [music] the casino? >> Absolutely. There are people that make seven figures a year playing slots. [music] >> This is going to be the biggest slot gamble of my life. The constant cat-and- mouse game between the casinos [music] and the advantaged slot players. If you are very very disciplined, you can beat the casinos. >> So, how much money [music] then have you lost this year gambling? >> Well, last night, what were we down about? $562,000. >> Was it worth it? >> You win some and you lose some. >> If you're going to put out a message to the casual viewer, what tips or tricks should they know when they go to the casino? >> The best gambling [music] strategy, if you really wanted to maximize it, if you had a budget of $1,000, [music] Vegas. Matt, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour. We really appreciate it. >> It's good to be back. >> So, every time I tell someone I live in Vegas, they always say, "Isn't the city of Vegas dying? Is Las Vegas dead?" >> Uh, it doesn't look like it to me. I mean, it's pretty busy. Uh, there was a lot of traffic last night when I was leaving and what was that was a Sunday night leaving the strip and it was packed and seems I don't know. I hear that, too. But it seems like it's going well. I I don't know. I don't own a casino yet, so I'm not that worried about it. But >> where do you think that started? Cuz I get the same thing. Everyone's like, "Oh, I heard Las Vegas is dying." And I go to the strip every now and then. It is packed. >> Yeah. >> I went to the sphere and they had sold out multiple days in a row for Wizard of Oz. >> Oh, Wizard of Oz is great. Did you guys see it? >> Yeah. >> You did? I did. >> You didn't see it yet? Yeah. I loved it. I got dizzy during like a couple scenes though. Did you Did you at all? >> I got Vertigo. The first time I went to the Yeah, it was like Vertigo. >> I fully got Vertigo. >> Yeah. I love the stereo though. I've seen almost everything there except for UFC. It was out of town. I really wanted to see that. >> Well, where do you think that rumor came from? >> I don't know. Uh some probably some influencer made it up. I I don't know. Like I mean, someone probably has numbers that, you know, Las Vegas Tourism Board or something like that, but I mean the airport's always packed. The you know, the casinos that I go to are always packed. And uh I mean I don't know. It's weird. You know, you keep I keep thinking, well, we got to have a recession eventually. You know, you hear about that and I think it's been like the last couple years I've been going like, I should probably take my money out of stocks. Market can't keep going up forever, you know. Well, you know a lot more about that than I do, but it >> keeps going up. >> It just keeps going up. It's crazy. So, I don't know. People seem to have money and, you know, I mean, I all I ever do is, you know, deal with gamblers and I'm in high limit rooms all the time and those people sure seem to still have money to lose. >> But what about on the lower end? Would you say casinos are getting a little bit more greedy? Because whenever you go to the strip, it's hard to find a table where the minimums are anything less than like $25. And so a lot of people are like, I'm going to go there and maybe only play for like, you know, 30 minutes or so because it's just way too expensive to be gambling on the strip now. >> Well, I mean, think about though inflation. I mean, what when I was in your guys' age, like when I was in my 20s and I was coming here, like it was a $5 table, you know, and I mean, $5 is probably the same as $25 nowadays, 40 years later. So, I don't I don't know. I maybe getting a little bit out of touch with reality. Like, I'm aware of that. But yeah, I guess like you know what, it seems like it definitely some things are expensive. You know, you go to like those clubs and stuff. I mean, you know, a table is like thousands of dollars and yet they're all still full. It's unbelievable. >> Have you ever bought a table at a club? >> Yes. >> And how expensive was it? >> I try to go with when other people buy. [laughter] >> You know, there's always those people that are just like they just think they seem they're so rich or they're trying to impress you so much that they just want to pay for everything. And that's that's my my preference. But I have been the guy when you go and then they look, it's like, well, you obviously should be the one paying. But I not very many times. But I think if you have the right guy, you know, the nightlife guy, like everyone's got a guy in Vegas. It's like, "Let me call my guy. He'll get us a table." You know, >> I mean, I think I've paid like maybe a,000 or $2,000 for a table. And then, you know, and then they say it includes >> a bottle, but then then about all of a sudden there's like 10 people in your booth and then they just keep ordering bottles and then at the end it's like, oh, and then a 20% gratuitity and this and it always ends up being like5 or $6,000. >> Was it worth it? >> I mean, not I don't know. Not really. It's kind of fun, you know. I like the music. It's like uh I don't know. I'm 62 years old. I I love going to those clubs. >> Do you bring your wife? >> No, she never stays out past 10. >> So, you just go out to the club? >> Well, I mean, like, don't get me wrong, I've done it like >> How often is this? >> In the last like three years. I think I've been to a club like three times. Okay. >> You know, just every once in a while, like some guys uh friends of mine, I didn't go. I got invited, but I didn't go. They went to XS the other night for Diplo and Jeff Bezos was at the table next to him. I mean, a fun stuff like that always happens in Vegas. >> Did they talk to Jeff at all? >> The one guy kind of made it sound like they did, but then I saw the picture and it was like of the back of his head with six security guys standing around him, so I don't know how much they talked to him, but they did see him. >> Do you know what it was like to have Jeff Bezos at the club? Did he say anything? Like he just ran up a tab of like 200 grand? >> Was everyone just like, "Oh my god, Jeff Bezos is here." I you know I got it secondhand so it would be like a telephone game at this point but he did say that he had a lot of security was one thing and then and he said it looked like he was having a lot of fun >> and then they said he was short I mean I don't know it looks to me like he's getting jacked. >> He is jacked. >> It's like everyone who gets really rich gets in good shape except me. >> It's the final form is when you've gotten everything you already have. The next thing is just get really jacked. >> I suppose it's like cuz you're making so much money you want to like live longer you know. No, I think it's the only thing that money can't buy is a really good physique. >> Yeah. Well, I've been doing Tai Chi. I saw some stuff on my feed. You guys do you guys get that, too? Or is it just for old guys? >> I haven't gotten your phone now. Probably heard it. But >> yeah, this like this t there's these people that super ripped. It's like what do you do? It's like I go like this, you know, like with no weight. It's like [laughter] anyway, I like it. It's It's good. >> But now going back to the Las Vegas is dying. What are you seeing in the high limit rooms? Are you noticing people gambling less, spending more? What are you seeing? >> I mean, it's absolute madness in my what I'm seeing. Like I mean, gosh, yesterday uh I mean, there were two different guys playing uh what between 2500 and 5,000 a spin, like fast spitting. I think that that you know, the people who have that kind of money to gamble are probably going to have a hard time losing it all. Although, we have heard stories. I saw that Watanabi guys loop going around lately. It seems very very busy to me and it seems like um again it's hard for me to say cuz like I'm in that world every single day. It's the only place I am and so to me it seems like yeah everybody's gambling and and um people are playing and playing big and yeah I mean the high limit rooms are always full and uh I'm seeing no signs of Vegas being slower. >> So how much money then have you lost this year gambling? Uh not very much. Uh shockingly we have in the description in our YouTube channel every day in our long form. So we have like a 45 minute long form video every day seven days a week thanks to my son and partner who are also here. Uh that you know for like three years we've posted every single day and in the description we keep a running track of our year-to- date win loss. So, we were getting a little bit wrecked uh up until about like was it late October? I think we were down like 450,000 on the year. >> Is that getting wrecked or is that about expected? >> Well, I mean it was to be expected I think for us like you think about it. I mean every single day we're we're betting on average $50 $75 a spin for 45 minutes. And so probably the expected loss per day would be like I guess $3 to $5,000. WBG would probably have an exact number, but u I would have thought we would lost a million dollars this year, but we were so we were down 400 say $450 $470,000 and then we hit a grand uh up in Reno for a couple hundred,000. Then we hit another really really big uh line pay called the big beautiful buffalo spin where we got like 13 buffaloos on a pretty big bet and that was like 230 or 240,000. Then we hit 400,000 on a bonus on a Phoenix link and we just had like a real just flurry of winning and then we've been giving it back and as of like it's 15 days left to the end of the year as we are currently speaking and we're down 10,000 on the year. >> Wow. So, it's like almost nothing. And now, I don't know that doesn't count my, you know, off- camerara antics, uh, which I'm probably am down, but nothing nothing weird. Like, I I'll play with my wife, uh, and we'll play like, you know, $10 a spin, $20 a spin, nothing crazy. >> Is that even fun for you, though? >> Yeah, I I think so. I just like it, you know? I mean, I just like I just like winning and playing. Uh, I'll play like I'll play even uh sometimes like I was getting breakfast the other day and I was playing 10 cent 10 play Ultimate X, you know, I think that's like $10 a spin on video pok, you know, end up playing. Well, then I ended up going to 25 cents and I went to 50 cents and I ended up losing $3,500. [laughter] >> $3,500. You spent $3,500 for breakfast >> on coffee. Very expensive coffee. Yeah. But that did not work out well. That was that was a bad moment. >> Do you even share that information with your wife? >> I used to lie to her a lot about how like, you know, I would come back from a weekend and be like, "Oh, I broke even." You know, except for that $10,000 cash advance I took, you know. Uh but I don't at this point, she doesn't really care, you know. I mean, you win some and you lose some. I mean, yesterday was a a day off and I went with my friends and my brother who were in town went to the local casino and I was there about 15 minutes early and I think I lost $4,000 playing video poker before brunch and then I came back and then I played a dragon link and I got down another $3,000 and then I hit $11,000 and then I gave most of it back in video poker. And then I hit four deucees dealt and I want like it's it's I'm playing bigger and but it's it's just a lot of fun and I mean I can afford it and it doesn't really you know bother me but it's yeah you have to play a certain amount for it to you know to to care I guess is what you're saying or what you're asking but I still care. I don't like losing even a thousand bucks or 2,000 bucks. It bothers me. >> How much do you think you've gambled in total? >> Like coin in or something like that? >> Yeah. Oh, it's insane. Like, I try to get all my W2Gs, you know, the the the things you get when you get a $1,200 or more jackpot, some random arbitrary number since 1970 or whatever. But, uh, you a lot of times I won't get them or I'll be on self-pay and I'll forget to get the print out of all the ones from the day. But even the ones that I get, there are hundreds and hundreds of them. But to do my taxes, I have to file an extension and then wait till like September. And then my accountant has to call the IRS and get a print out of all the W2G GS that I've gotten. And the IRS was having a hard time because it was too many pages for them to print and then they couldn't it was too big to email. I'm talking about like I would be willing to say that I got $6 million of hand pays this year and on coin in of God only knows how much. An enormous amount. I think I probably gamble more than just about anybody. I don't know cuz I do it every day. >> If you were to guess, do you think it would be over $und00 million? >> I don't. >> Total. >> I don't think so. What do you think? WBG. >> Yeah. 50 or 75 million of coin in it. I would I mean he's the smart one. I I just push buttons. >> What sort of comps do you get? >> I mean we've getting now it's a hybrid now because you know the Vegas Matt dynamic is is finally you know starting to get where it's gone kind of full circle from when the old days you know 3 4 years ago when them letting you film was like really nice of them. It's like, oh, this place lets us film. >> And now it's kind of gone to the point where, you know, gee, who's going to be lucky enough for us without sounding like a dick, but like, you know, for us to come there because we are a lot of people watch us, you know, and so if we say, hey, we're playing at XYZ casino, people are going to come there, you know, so they're starting to see the value more and more of that. So some of the comps, I think, are because of our YouTube fame or whatever. But just as far as a regular person goes, I get, you know, certainly room food and beverage, you know, I haven't paid I I have a almost a religious opposition to paying for a meal, you know, because >> anywhere you go, >> anywhere. Well, certainly at a casino, you know, but uh like someone will suggest going to a restaurant off strip and I'm like, ah, why? You know, but then again, sometimes these comps get so ridiculous and we order just everything and, you know, go out to a dinner and then, you know, get a free dinner. That's the other night we went to Komodo, which is one of our favorite places down at the Fountain Blue and and the bill was $3,000. And so, like, you know, a normal 20% tip would be 600, but you got to be kind of, you know, generous. And so, I was like probably $7 or $800 in tip for a free meal. You know, you probably could have gone somewhere decent and gotten a meal for $600. >> Have you ever gone to one of those steakouses, an extremely expensive restaurant on the strip, ran up like a $10,000 bill and then got a call like, "Hey, maybe take it easy a little bit with these comps." >> No, but like very few of the people that that we hang around with drink very much at all. And that's where it gets expensive. >> And that gets what's get expensive. I mean, and no, I haven't ever had someone say like, "You're, you know, we we don't really even we work so much. Like, we don't go to too many dinners. EJ and WBG, you know, they always talk about how they don't like long dinners, you know, and all that." And so, it's not really our thing. Me, I enjoy it. I'll take some of my my friends out sometimes for something, but never anything too crazy. Like, I'm not ordering bottles of Louis or, you know, whatever trying to really abuse it. What about the comps that you get for being on YouTube? What are what are the some of those crazy comps? >> You know, I'm like a little kid, you know? I mean, I love like flying private. Like it's my favorite thing in the world. And you do it a couple times and just get ruined, you know? And uh so like there are some casinos that that have jets, you know, which is like I I would say arguably that has to be the most valuable comp ever is when you get flown on a private plane. And then the other would be Super Bowl tickets. We've been able to get the last two years we've been able to get Super Bowl tickets from some of our casinos and we're going again this year. And uh so that's a big one. F1 one time guy got to go to one of those fancy, you know, clubs right on the track and the caviar tasting or they were doing like we were doing like caviar bumps. Like I just love all that stuff. And I'm trying to think what else. So, you know, any football game, any concert, any, you know, I I like to go in the um in the suit, you know, cuz you get the free food and you get your own bathroom. And uh you get really spoiled like at the Sphere going to a suite and watching watching one of the show or a concert. I've seen the Eagles twice. That know that was fun. So, yeah, all that stuff is is free when you just lose and you get free stuff. Have you ever seen someone profitably beat the casino? Well, it's the new year and this is the time when people finally tell themselves that they're going to start that business that they've been putting off forever. But what usually stops them isn't the idea itself. It's all the paperwork. Everyone says, "Oh, just go and open up an LLC." But no one explains exactly what that means, how to do it, what forms are required, and how to make sure you do it all without messing something up. 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It's just not a game. I don't care if you could count and it was nothing but tens left. The dealer would get 20 and I'd get the one three that was left in the deck, you know. Uh, but what I found was really interesting that I did not know about was the whole world of advantage slot play. And there are lots and lots and lots of people and it's a constant cat-and- mouse game between the casinos and the advantage uh slot players. Um if you are very very very very smart and very very very very disciplined and you have the bankroll and the intestinal fortitude and you can handle the you know the ups and downs. I guess that's intestinal fortitude. You can beat the casinos. So my understanding with that is that there are certain payouts that need to be hit on certain slots. And if you identify what slots will pay out when and you have let's say progressive bank >> yeah like like a10 to $100,000 bankroll you could theoretically just say I know I'm going to put in a maximum of 100,000 but I'll get back 115,000. Is that kind of how >> Yeah, kind of. I mean, conceptually there there there are certain machines that have must hit by, you know, and that those are the easiest ones to explain. Um, there's a lot more than that, but that let's say you go to a machine, it says it must hit by 10,000 and it let's say it resets at 9,000 usually and it moves 5 cents for every X dollars that you put in. I forget it. But I mean, you know, you can just put money in and hit the button and then see how much it moves to figure out how much money has to take to move it, right? So, for every to move the meter $1, you know, it's going to take $1,000 or $10,000 of coin in. And then what these guys do, obviously, it's not me because I can't even figure it out or explain it right now, but I know how it works. Uh, so they'll add up, okay, it will take uh $172,000 of coin in for this meter to get to 10,000. So, you know, you're going to get $10,000 at the end. And let's say that the meter's at X right now. Uh, and they know that that machine has a, you know, 92% return to player. So, mathematically, every dollar you put in, you're losing 8 cents. So you multiply that 172,000 of coin in times whatever and then somehow they figure out a way mathematically if you played this same play a million times you would have a mathematical advantage on this particular play and that doesn't mean that you're going to win every time cuz I've sat and I've done live streams and let's play this machine until it hits and you know mathematically we were supposed to win $1,000 or $2,000 or something like that and we lost 20 or 40 like I mean if you have a run of bad luck the you know but you can outrun the math in the long term and so I I feel and I've talked about it many times it would make the greatest movie like there is a movie in the behindthescenes world of advantage slot play it's it's an incredible world that most people haven't the foggiest idea about. I walked into a machine the other day and someone had played it. It has a must hit by 75 and someone had left it at 74 and they must just have been oblivious or run out of money and literally walked up, pushed the button like four times and won like $11,000. It was like they had left $10,000 on the ground. >> So once you're right on the cusp of the must hit, do you just max bet every single time? Because the the bonus will be higher if it's max bet as opposed to minimum bet, right? Uh it depends on the game, but that like um in in the case of a must hit like a progressive, it's going to be let's say it's $10,000 or $100,000 is what they usually are. It doesn't matter if you're betting a dollar or $50, it's going to be the same. You're going to get that entire amount. It just takes longer to move the meter if you're betting less. >> In this particular case, the all of those things were bet dependent. So, this was on I think like $18.75 per spin and that was where they left the 74 on a must hit by 75. >> Are there any ways to get advantage play if it's not a progressive bet? >> The people who can actually beat the casinos are next level smart is all I can say from those that I've heard about. and they do everything like everything to maximize their return. Like you know if there's a gift giveaway, you know, or if it's like the holiday giving guide that's going on right now at a lot of the casinos, you know, they'll go and they'll play on a day when if you swipe your card on a Tuesday, you get 10 times points and then they'll play 99.8% 8% video poker for 15 hours and rack up an absolute ton of points because the 0.02% that they're losing mathematically on the video poker. Now, they might get wrecked for $50,000 and not get a royal and whatnot, but mathematically they're winning and they're getting all these points for the holiday shopping extravaganza where they know that they can buy Walmart gift cards or uh whatever it is that that is actually like dollar fordoll value or something that maybe is even worth more that they'll in turn sell on eBay. I mean, it's it's nuts. And then but yes, if you maximize every possible angle to to maximize your play, you can make money. >> Do you think that's worth that person's time, assuming they're not retired and have nothing else to do? >> It depends on the person and how big they're willing to play and how much they play and how again how often they do. Like the problem is is most people that try to do advantage slot play are also degenerate gamblers. And so, like me, for example, I'll I'll do something and it's like, okay, that's only like four four spins until it does what I want it to do or whatever. But then I'll be like, ah, I want to play a little bit more, you know? Or like this game, you play it whenever the number of balls in the pot are over 15 or there's this many richest little piggies or whatever the case may be. and there's, you know, there's math on it, but then you hit it and they're like, I want to play a little more and do a few more spins. Every single spin that you do that's not a mathematical advantage. It makes you lose money. But I would go out on a limb and say that there are people, not many, but some, that make seven figures a year playing slots. >> What about Mickey Mazize, who claims that he has a mathematical advantage with Bakar? I'd love for him and WBG or W2 Jesus to sit down and talk about that sometime. I I just I just don't know how that is possible. >> We could try to arrange that conversation. >> Cool. I mean, he one thing I say about him is he definitely knows how to get airtime and maybe maybe he does, but I don't see I don't see how uh how he can do it. >> I've tried to figure it out. Yeah. He said he would sell the rights to how it works for $20 million. And I tried to do my own investigation. I'm like, how on earth is it possible to beat the casino at Bakar? >> Yeah, I have heard I mean again it I don't know the guy, you know, and I and I see some of the things that people say about me and just the level of just untruth and jealousy and then just just completely speaking out of their ass, so to speak. and I don't want to do that to him. Some of I can tell you this that some of the stuff I've heard him say doesn't really make sense to me. He's a good talker and he's says some things, but some of it just there's a logic gap. And I'd love to know, but I don't believe that that game unless like the Phil Ivy thing uh where he uh with that the lady over in uh what was it in where Singapore or wherever it was that they were playing in like where he he could tell from the back of the deck whether what the card was, >> you know. Um, well, Phil Ivy kind of is the Tiger Woods of of >> That's what I was thinking there. You know, great guy, too, by the way. I hung out with him. I've met some neat people in this whole world. But like that that happened. But I mean, it's it's so random and it's just it's player or banker. It's like flipping a coin. And how can you beat flipping a coin? I don't think it is possible. There's no way to count at Bakar. There's just I mean I don't know. These are way better questions for WBG who's who knows everything about gambling. But all I can say is that Mickey Mays looks like he's having a lot of fun and he gets a lot of attention and he gets a lot of airtime and he seems to fly around in jets and I've seen him have millions of dollars of cash and he was a young guy and I bet he's having a blast. So more power to him. That's what I say. >> What's the biggest loss you've ever seen off camera? >> Well, last night what were we down about $562,000? you were down. >> I mean, not me, but me and my son and a couple of friends were like were playing something and just kind of sharing the result and I was waking up and getting text updates and uh I I've seen I mean my other another friend uh also yesterday I'm I'm do I have to do a lot of gambling. He he [laughter] uh he lost I think almost $400,000 in about 20 minutes. Um, and then he went to another casino and won 2 million. Uh, I've just I see some pretty big losses, but me personally, I don't like to lose a lot. You know, I've seen it and I've been and I've had little slivers of of the action. Uh, but I just I I'm If I lost 50 or $100,000, I I'd be so mad. What's the biggest loss you've ever personally experienced off camera? >> Probably like $30,000, [snorts] something like that. Not not I'm not that I don't know. I like the my money, you know. I don't want to I don't want to lose it all. So, yeah, I I haven't lost that much money myself off camera, but I I I do now have a lot of friends that are really big crazy gamblers and that gamble big and they've lost a lot of money. How do you think experiencing loss at such extreme levels and winning at such extreme levels affects your just like dopamine receptors? And do you think that have you have you noticed it's more difficult for you to be excited or to feel bored or like these other emotions when you're not gambling? >> Yeah, I mean I would imagine like that whole dopamine I mean I'm not a biologist. I don't I don't know what what would not be a biology or physio whatever. I I don't know anything about chemistry or whatever. I don't know how it works but I've heard this dopamine stuff is good. Like that's what you get when you look at the Tik Tok or whatever, you know. Uh I mean gambling is a is a is a rush. It's just like anything else I suppose. Uh that is like maybe an addictive behavior and whatnot. Um so yeah, I mean it is it is fun when you win and it is depressing when you lose. Um and I guess that that's a dopamine thing. it. Uh, and I mean they have meetings about it, you know, for people who get like addicted to gambling and stuff. So, be careful with it. I mean, we we tried to do a pretty good job of telling people, you know, gamble within your means and and we show our losses. I mean, we were, I think, one of the first groups to really show that you lose a lot. There's actually a couple casinos that don't want us to make content there because they don't like when you show that you lose, which I thought was interesting. But the reality of gambling is you're going to lose. Like unless you're, you know, some Rainman level person, you know, who's way smarter than the average person and way more disciplined, you're going to lose. So, it should be recreational. Um, but yeah, it's it's a lot of fun. I mean, I do it. I did it before I had a channel. It was when I, you know, if I was bored, I would go down and play video poker. I like I like I like it. It's fun. I've been doing it since I was in my 20s. I came to Vegas like the first time in like 1984. been coming here at least once a month for 40 years. Um, so I love it. I always have. Um, but yeah, it's like playing with m playing with fire, you know. Got to be careful. >> How do casinos actually make their money? Is it through gambling? Is it through selling rooms? >> You know, I don't own one, but I'd like to. Uh, I'm I'm pretty sure it has to be from mostly from the gambling, but I think these days now there's like all, you know, there's a lot of ancillary revenue sources like, you know, those super clubs and all these expensive restaurants and the shopping and so forth. You the model's probably fairly elaborate, but there can't be anything more profitable than having a machine that every time someone pushes a button, you make 8% of the money, you know? I mean, think about it. Like, if you have a bank of machines, they're playing the long game. Yeah, someone's going to hit a jackpot over here, but they almost never even have a losing day or week. Certainly not month, you know? I mean, it's So, if someone's playing $100 a spin, you know, it's like spin spin spin spin $8 to the every single time that button is pushed. It's an enormous amount of money that they make on on slots. >> Do they make more money from the high rollers or from the people making smaller bets? >> This would be conjecture. I but I would think the bigger players because if someone's betting $1,000 a spin, right? Uh you know that's $1,000 $1,000 $1,000. >> If someone's betting a dollar a spin, you know, they'd have to do it a thousand times to get the same coin in. But then there's more smaller players playing small. So I don't know. That would be a better question for someone who owns a casino and has looked at the math. But it seems like it would take a long time to match the coin in of the bigger players. But again, there are I'm thinking and I'm just like I'm making this up as I talk because you walk through a casino, you know, you got the big part with just all those machines where the average person's probably betting $5 a spin and then you go into the high limit room where maybe the average person is betting $100 a spin. Again, making that up, but it's that's 20x. So the question is, are there 20 times more people outside on the floor playing than there is in here? I'm not sure. >> But then why with Dana White has he been banned from some casinos? I don't think he's an edge player, >> but I or I don't think he's an advantage player. >> I've played with him. I can tell you he is not. >> So [laughter] why did you see him do something? >> I mean, he crazy stuff like I mean he he Well, not crazy. He's, you know, he's an instinct player. Like I mean he he doesn't he doesn't play even basic strategy like you know where there's a mathematical strategy like there's a there's a black and white answer to every single situation in blackjack for example and I've seen him make plays you know he'll stay on 16 if he just he feels like it or you know he'll uh he'll hit on something that he's not supposed to or he'll double something that he's not supposed to or whatever the case may be. like he plays kind of by his own rules, but I can tell you that sometimes there are some people who are lucky. He's obviously a lucky guy. I mean, president of the UFC, everyone likes him. He's a great He is an amazing dude. He's maybe lucky. And if you beat casinos for a lot of money, they don't like that. They don't still like if you're not an advantaged player, can't they see it expanded over a long enough time horizon and be like, "Okay, like, you know, if you bet, you know, coin in $50 million here this year, we're going to end up retaining some of that." I think maybe the thing with him is he just bets like for maybe a smaller property or something like that. Uh I think he bets so big that they just are scared of the swings, >> you know, like I mean >> that's why these you know they these places have limits you know I mean like you know the most you can bet is 10,000 you know also to pre prevent people from martinailing I would imagine but you know some places don't want to take a bet bigger than 10,000 or $20,000 you know. >> Have you ever martined? >> Oh yeah we've done videos while proving it doesn't work. >> Did you ever successfully martinale what's the worst you've ever lost martinailing? Uh I mean we it we successfully martin Gale every single time until you don't you know and then I mean it can get real bad real quick. So a lot of times like we'll play especially online you know we'll you you bet $100 and then so 100 200 400 800600 3200 6400 you know then you're pretty soon you're table max you know so seven hands in a row until you lose seven hands in a row you're winning $100 every time and most you can dodge with the bullet quite a few times you know we'll sit there and we'll we'll do that 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 for and you know we'll win win win win win $100 $100 $100 run win a few thousand dollar right it works out great until it doesn't when you just lost one three seven whatever I mean it's it becomes you know 105 $20,000 loss the one time you lose seven in a row you have to add that up but 6400 plus 3200 plus whatever 1 1600 uh and and that one time it happens it just devastates all the money you made along the way. It absolutely scientifically has been proven by us many times does not work. You will get wrecked. >> And what about on the topic of getting wrecked? Have you ever seen people freak out at the casino? What's the worst you've ever seen? >> Not really. Like I've seen those videos of the guy throwing a chair through the machine and and whatnot, but no. But I know like what's even worse, I think, is when you just see someone who's just devastated and they're just quiet. you know, they're on a cruise and, you know, day three of the cruise, you know, they their credit cards maxed out and they have no money left and they're just kind of sitting there, you know, pretending to play bingo or, you know, I mean, I don't know. Like, there's not it's terrible, but I haven't seen anyone really lose their mind, you know, but I know it happens and it's it's tragic, but it can happen. You go on tilt. I mean, I've done it, you know, where I just I just I just, oh, I'm going to get it back. I'm going to get it back and then you just end up losing way more than you were were comfortable doing. And it's it's sad, but I haven't seen any real big temper tantrums. You hear about them. >> What about the rumor that some of the slots closer to the door pay more than those further in the casino? >> Yeah, it's funny. Every almost every single question we've had as a question of the day on our show because WBG does a question of the day. >> I don't believe that that is true. I don't think that they do that. I think the, you know, the machines are set and to change the the payout, you know, the hold. It's it it's a lot of effort. So, usually they just set them and and forget them and they have a policy like what their machines are set out on the floor. Again, I'm not 100% sure like I'm not I can't speak in absolutes, but from the people that I listen to, what I understand, I think that that is a fallacy. I don't think that there's any truth to that. >> And what do you think about online gambling? Is that pulling people away from physical casinos? >> I don't know. I think people who like to gamble like to gamble. Like I really like online gambling. I mean, there's no, it doesn't smell like smoke. You can do it from the comfort of your home. I mean, not in Nevada, but like in like I'll go to Atlantic City or, you know, to Pennsylvania or wherever, you know, some of the states where it's legal. And I really enjoy it, you know. I mean, they took us uh to a um what was it? A a basketball game. Is it Detroit Pistons? >> Mhm. Yeah. Uh and I went to the the game and I'm not a huge sports guy and it was a kind of a blowout and I was kind of bored. So I was like sitting there uh on the court side on my phone gambling playing Ultimate X and a couple different games. I really like I I quite enjoy the online gambling, but I guess if someone has, you know, a X number of dollars available annually for their gambling budget, right? if they're gambling online and losing some of their money, that might take money away from them what they by spending the in the offline casinos. I know that that that area is, you know, really growing and a lot more and more people are uh gambling online and betting online and so forth. And um yeah, it's it's very controversial, but I quite enjoy it. I I like it. And I and I and then the thing that a lot of people don't know I think might be interesting is that the return to player is way better online than it is in the casinos. I mean so you'll you can look on the game there's like an info tab and you can look what the return to player is and on a game like a six ball three coin you know classic Dragon Linkesque type of game there's a lot of those games online as well. Uh same basic premise. Okay, I want six balls and or three coins. Online, I've seen RTPs like 96.4%. And probably the best you'll see uh in a regular uh physical casino is about 92%. And that and that's more than a 4% difference. It's like almost like twice or three times as good than than it is. Um so so it's good RTP. It's good entertainment. Do do it from the comfort of your home. Just as long as you do it responsibly, I think it's good. And I don't know how much it's hurt the online casino business. I I wouldn't have that data. >> Would you quit gambling for life for $20 million? >> Uh [gasps] I think so. I mean I would I'd have to quit my channel and everything. >> Just quit gambling. Never push a button again. Never bet on something again. >> I don't think so. Right now >> 20 million. >> I mean I mean >> after tax just in your bank account right now. >> I'd have to consult with my team of advisors. Wait. What do you think, guys? No, I I don't think we would either. >> He just looks [laughter] over and his son's like sitting in the couch. EJ >> shaking his head. No, >> I know. It just I just don't think that would be a good financial decision for us right now, you know, cuz we uh we doing very well from gambling. And it's a lot of fun, you know, and uh between the three of us, you know, I mean, that would only be like seven million for me. What am I gonna do? Seven million now. It would I mean I don't know like you were a money guy. a million. Like when I was a kid, being a millionaire was like a big deal, you know? >> It's equivalent to probably what five is today. >> Okay. Well, I mean, I'm a lot older than you. Like I think I mean that term like was probably coined in the 20s or something like that. So >> like a 1970s millionaire or 80s millionaire is probably a 20 millionaire. So I think 20 million is a number >> that you could if one had 20 million after tax and you invested it intelligently. I mean, this is your guys' area, but you know, you could live very comfortably on the interest on $20 million forever. You can't have a jet, though. And so, I still have big goals. If you look in the last chapter of my best-selling book, The Art of Being Lucky, you know, uh I that's one of my dreams is to have a has my own plane. >> Mhm. >> And you just need a lot of money. Now, really quick, I just want to say that it's very easy to lose track of your spending when it quietly fades into the background. I'm talking a few small charges you didn't really realize, forgotten subscriptions, and pretty soon your account is lower than when you started. And that's exactly why today's sponsor, Rocket Money, is just so useful is because it gathers everything, puts it all in one place, so nothing slips through the cracks. 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Thank you so much to Fora for sponsoring this episode. Do you ever not want to gamble? Uh sometimes like if you get on a really bad losing streak, I've I mean I've we've had conversations where it's like I'm quitting. This is stupid, you know, like like that. I've gotten frustrated and and it never lasts more than a day or two, but like we had the worst losing streak. And uh WBG always says, you know, winning streaks and losing streaks some last longer than you'd ever expect them or he said it better than that, but the essence is we just we just couldn't win. And it was getting it was bad, you know, cuz like our content is like, "Okay, welcome to the Vegas Matt losing his ass show, you know, and then like day after day after day after day we just we, you know, let's play this, let's play Huff and Puff, let's play Dragon Link, let's play this, and just lose, lose, lose, lose." I mean, it was good for the audience to see, you know, there's no magic. You're going to get wrecked. Um, and so when I lose a lot and then and just over and over and over and over again, but it I mean now that big jackpot's right around the corner, you know, when we hit that 400,000, that was so that was insane and that just that just made up. >> What was the reaction to that? >> I was very enthusiastic. You know, a lot of times I'll do like a a victory lap where like I run around the machines like I think that's one of the reasons when I first got started I'm a very emotional, you know, I mean I wear my like what you see is what you get kind of a thing. And so like when I win I'm elated and when I lose I'm mad. And and that honest reaction I think is what kind of have people like. And so the first video that EJ ever uploaded was me. I got a royal flush and I was just all excited and it was just my reaction that really got the thing to kind of go viral and that's what started the whole thing. >> How long did that high last after winning $400,000? >> I don't know. it, you know, it it's still kind of lasting, you know, because we have a we have like a a gambling fund and when that gambling fund is empty and like every day I have to like go to the bank and get $10,000 and bring it to the casino, you know, and say, "Okay, here's for our video today." doing that day after day after day after day with you know starts to get kind of annoying with the 400,000 all of a sudden the whole the coffers were full and I haven't had to reach in my pocket now for a couple of months you know so uh maybe that there's still some residual high from that but I mean it was it was definitely you know elation for a day or two I would say >> how do they pay you $400,000 is it cash is it a check is it a wire >> a lot of It just depends. But I took a check for a lot of it and then some cash. But, you know, I mean, I don't I don't want to walk around with that that much cash, but I mean, they'll pay you however you want. They'll wire it. They'll give you a check. They'll give you cash. They'll leave it on an account for you. >> What's the most cash that you've seen in a casino? >> Probably half a million quite often. I've seen, you know, again, not not mine, but I mean, I've seen a lot of people come in with a lot of cash. I saw Steve will do it. Just dumped a million dollars in front of Red Rock. Did you see that clip? >> No. >> Yeah. He just takes a duffel bag full of a million dollars and drops it and just shakes it out and there's a million dollars spread in the valet and he's like spillage and just has a million. >> Steve has I'm convinced he has a money tree. Uh because I mean all he's ever doing is just giving people Rolexes and cars and I mean and he's and spending money and and gambling and just I've seen him lose a lot. Maybe he wins a lot too. But man, he he just seems like he has an endless supply of money. That guy has >> I saw he just gave I think it was like $750,000 to Karina Cop over the last month. It was like a GT. I've seen her. I've seen her. >> Like a GT3 RS, >> Rolexes, cash, bags. It's a lot. >> Yeah. He must like her. >> See, I just want to know what his taxes are like. >> I have no idea. >> Like, how do you write >> he pays them? Yeah. >> What do you Because he would have to either give someone else a 1099 and then they would be responsible for the taxes or he's paying it at his highest tax bracket. Yeah. So, it cost him like 40% more to pay the other person's taxes on the gifts he's giving. How? >> I could text him. Uh, now he's he's sometimes he's really good about responding. Sometimes he takes a while. You know how these famous people are sometimes. Uh, but I don't know. He doesn't he doesn't strike me as the type of person who would sit still long enough to answer that question and or he probably doesn't know and you know, someone else does that for him. My guess is it's probably got to be someone else. >> Yeah. Well, hopefully he's handling it, you know, because I mean taxes and stuff, all that stuff's really important. You know, I always tell EJ, you know, stay on top of all that stuff and pay your taxes and don't get behind and you know, all that because if you they some of these people that are famous like athletes and celebrities and stuff like that, they'll make all this money and then they'll buy all these cars and all this jewelry and all this and they'll forget this one little detail of their taxes and then all of a sudden they have a career-ending injury and then they owe, you know, $13 million in taxes and they're dead broke. So, that's not good. But I'm Steve's been doing this for quite a while and he's a very very talented guy and that's cool. He had a million. You know, you got to be careful with that that much cash around, you know. >> Yeah. Speaking of that, what do you think about the recent law that passed that now you could only write off 90% of gambling losses? >> I don't like any taxes anymore than the next guy. You know, I mean, I some people someone was saying the other day, you know, like the income tax was originally just a 3% tax in World War II and it was supposed to be temporary and now it's like 40% of everything you make and there's taxes and taxes on taxes and taxes and I just registered my car and it was, you know, $3,500 to register my car for the year. Then if you live in a state where there's state taxes and so forth and so on. And then the gambling, they tax the living daylights out of these out of the casinos and the casinos almost always win. And then in the rare event where somebody wins more than $1,200, they want to get a tax on that. I think it's ridiculous. And then I also think that it's not good, you know, cuz like if you gamble and you get $100,000 worth of W2Gs, you know, and but you have more than $100,000 of losses. In the past, you could just say, well, I didn't win. It was a net loss. Now they're saying you got to pay taxes on 10, you know, so if you lose a million and you win a million, you still owe taxes on a h 100,000. I I don't like it. I don't think it's fair. I think it's dumb. I think it's going to really hurt the professional, you know, like the poker players and the professional gambling world and sports betting and I really hope that that gets repealed and uh we'll see what happens. I've heard some rumors that it might. >> Yeah. Why do you think it passed? Who do you think was responsible for that and what do you think is the objective of that? just from your own opinion. >> Yeah. I feel bad cuz like I don't know anything. I'm just a guy that gambles, you know? I mean, I think it passed because it was part of some bill that like nobody read. And it's like they they just sit in these rooms and then they all they do is argue with each other and they say, "These people are bad. These people are bad." And then you know they try to get you to vote for them and then if they get a people to vote for them then they do something and these guys do something and they hate each other and then they just fight all the time and then eventually they all get really tired because they've been in this room for like seven days straight and someone's saying something has to get done and then somehow someone puts pressure on some people and then enough people vote for it that something passes finally and probably 90% of them haven't even read the everything that's in there. That's that's my layman's understanding. >> I'm going to give you my theory and I'm like 80% sure this is correct. This was just put in a much larger tax bill. It was snuck in there. >> People weren't going to vote that out. My assumption and my pure speculation guess is that it's probably the prediction markets. someone associated with for instance as an example like call sheet or poly market or some of these prediction markets where it's not considered gambling and they could carve out and they say okay 90% of your gambling losses are deductible but that doesn't apply to us because why else would they do it they want to dissuade people from gambling but prediction markets they're making the case that this isn't gambling this is a hedge you're making with an educated bet it is not random chance and because of that they could sneak in the little that gets passed and more people now go into prediction markets. That's my theory. I >> I think the whole politics thing is really interesting. It's not something that that we ever talk about cuz, you know, it'd be really dumb to talk about something that would alienate half your audience and I don't really have that strong of opinions on any of it. I just think it's all really dumb and they should just everyone should just get along and there should be like a law that you can't just spend all your time hating on your opponents and talking crap. Why don't you just spend your energy coming up with intelligent solutions? Now I realize it's infinitely more complicated. I was on the board of my HOA and after a year I resigned because I couldn't get anything done. And every decision that we made, half the people hated it and half people, you know, didn't. So, um, I didn't like it at all. But I think that the gambling thing is kind of interesting. And it's just the same as everything else. It's all money and power and so forth. So, you've got the, you know, you got the the casinos, you got the online casinos, you got the sweep stakes casinos, you got the the prediction markets, and these guys make a big donation to this guy's campaign in this state. So, it's legal in this state, but not in this state cuz this guy's tighter with this group. And it's all just a big racket to keep all the politicians pockets lined and all the lobbyists and everyone and there's just so much money and then they they don't want to make logical laws or make things universally like let adults make their own decisions because then that would stop the whole shell game of everyone getting in everyone's pockets and having to pay all these lawyers to figure out all these complicated things. And uh I'm just quite honestly I don't like it. It's nonsense. And it's like it's like gambling or smoking or drinking or anything. It's like do we want to live in a totalitarian state where someone tells you you can do this and not this and you know whatever? Or it's like are we big people? Let's just make our own decisions and and do what we want. We don't need the government telling us what to do and not do. I guess if I were to ever talk about politics, that's what I would say. I just I think it's a big scam and you know there's like so much waste and they waste so much time. I mean I don't know like maybe the again I don't have the answer. If I was president I wouldn't fix it but like it's makes something like a universal sales tax or something like that but like the the IRS code's like 80 billion pages long. Nobody understands it. Nobody knows how to do it. It's like oh you just hope you don't get audited. And then even the auditors some I've been audited three times in my life, you know, they they they sometimes can't even agree on things. And the amount of records that they would expect one to keep to be able to be within like the letter of the law, it's just a big extortion game in my opinion from the people. >> That was a phenomenal rant. I could see you behind a big podium speaking this to an audience, gaining a bunch of votes. >> Well, I don't want to run for office, man. It's it's a thankless job. And again, I'm not saying that, you know, like all like some I'm sure politicians are very nice nice people. You know, there people on both sides. [laughter] Um >> yeah, you're already doing it. >> But I'm sure there are some they're very nice people. But I'm just saying and just looking at the gambling thing because there's this there's online, there's offline, there's the the tribal gaming, there's this, and these are all they all have politicians that they are in with. And then they're they're they're just jockeying and then they're just and then they're trying to undermine this guy and oh well I'm going to get this passed and like what you had suggested like oh well we're kind of treated differently for tax purposes so if we could screw them it would be really good for us and I just don't like it. I just wish people would just be nicer. People just love drama and you know and all that kind of stuff. And I I just try not to get involved in our show is kind of a break from all that. I mean WBG's making just really dumb puns like brilliant and does like rapid fire left and right. People just enjoy his humor. People like the father son dynamic that me and my son have. You know our our show is just a couple of idiots getting together and gambling every day and having fun and people watch it to get away from, you know, all that craziness. >> One thing I wanted to ask you about, you mentioned this quite a bit in our previous podcast, running for the HOA. Why did you run for HOA? >> Well, because uh my house got broken into and I, you know, was like, why don't we have better security? You know, we pay all this money and, you know, I say I was in an uproar and then I just and then I started talking to everybody and and then next thing I know, like someone said, you know, you should be on the HOA board and then I'm like, okay. And then I like to win. And so then I just like, you know, got all the votes and I won in a landslide and then I'm I find myself on the board and I don't understand any of the, you know, how the meetings are run and I'm just like they would talk about the architectural committee, you know, that home xyz address is like 3 ft too close to the curb and and I'm like, I don't know about any of this. And they're like, oh well this landscaping, you know, we should be doing this and I'm like, I don't care about this. And then the security stuff, I'd be like, well, let's do this. And then we'd get, you know, we'd get a bid on it and be like, "Yeah, that's a great idea. That would probably work." Okay, so everyone's dues would go up $1,000 a month. And I'm like, "Okay." And then they're like, "People will cry if you raise the dues $20 a month." I'm like, "So we can't do that." No. Well, what about this? Well, this is that's what this is going to cost. And everything costs too much money. And then there's the people who don't want to pay. They don't want the dues to get increased. And then and then security is a tough thing, too. Like we had the chief of police come and everything like that. academy is like there's going to be crime. You know, the best thing you can do is take precautions. Uh you know, the sad reality is there's people that are, you know, that want your things and they will take them from you if you don't guard them. And then getting them armed. There's all kinds of rules and so forth. >> Well, that's why our HOA dues went up like $150 a home times hundreds of of houses. But yeah, it was uh increased cost of patrol plus increased insurance. >> Mhm. Yeah. And then it's like how many, you know, how much area is there to patrol because all they got to do is like sneak in, sneak out. But >> yeah, the crime. I mean, the these are like all these topics are just very very, you know, very very difficult. And that's why I I I mean, I'm trying not to be ever too critical about politicians cuz they have an impossible job. It's very, very difficult to come to decisions that please everybody. >> I really like that ring, by the way. That ring is cool. >> I like the uh on the side >> versus 37s. >> Yeah, the 37s. I noticed that you're wearing quite a bit of jewelry. Yeah. >> And you usually do. And you also pulled up in a colonin like a very very nice Rolls-Royce. And you said it was like the black label one which is the blackge. Black badge. Not black label. >> Black label. That's whiskey. >> Okay. The black badge rolls. Okay. I'm not quite there yet. I'm not there yet. The black badge Rolls-Royce. How much did you spend on that rolls? >> I'm a bargain hunter. You know, like I I I bought it a couple years old. It's still under warranty. I think a retail was like 450. I got it for 280. Why did you buy it? Because I love it. I don't know. Like I say, I I just I don't know. I like having fun. I like good things, you know? Like I I I don't mean to shamelessly plug my book, The Art of Being Lucky, but I I I talk about all that in my book. And a lot of it has to do with like my childhood, you know, and and it's actually I worked my ass off on this book. It is hard to write a book. Have you written a book yet? >> No. you need to write a book, Grant. Uh, you too. And it takes a lot longer and it it's just really really hard to encapsulate, you know, this is my kind of my life story with like some lessons and what I've learned and so forth. But I went like I went to a really um upper middle class high school uh you know where it was really competitive. There was a movie with Tori Spelling uh I think it was called The Cheerleader or something like that. Like I used to babysit the girl that got and it was like that was a their family friend. And the reason it happened was because like she was a really popular cheerleader and then there was this other girl who was like her family, you know, didn't have the money and there was like a comment made about her clothing and and and it was so intense and just hard to explain. Kind of like Mean Girls meets, you know, whatever else. and and I just was a weird environment and I was always kind of an like I wasn't, you know, on the football team. I wasn't like on the front lawn, you know, with the cool kids and whatnot. And so it just motivated me my whole life, you know, to just do better and to do, you know, to be. And so sometimes like the trappings of success, you know, like the Jets and the Rolls-Royces and stuff, I can't help myself, you know, but just kind of say like, hey, I did pretty good, you know, and so I just I get a kick out. My son on the other hand, you he's got a Toyota truck. He doesn't care, you know. He's like, you like how many zeros in your bank account, you know? Um, but I mean the jewelry kind of started off as a joke. I bought this because I thought it um gold was going up and I bought it at meltdown value and I wore it in a video and a bunch of people said I look like an old idiot and and that so the engagement was good in the comments and so I just said, "Well, I'm going to wear it every day then." And then uh this I had made just cuz I thought it was kind of cool cuz we have this neat Vegas matte logo with the handle and then there's a a local uh jeweler here in town. Shout out to the guys at Jewel Trends. I They're really nice guys in my neighborhood and they and they made this for me. And yeah, so I wear this every day. My wedding ring I've had forever. I got this watch when we hit 100,000 subscribers and I've always wanted one of these uh gold presidentials, you know, that presidents wear. And and then this this was a new addition. A lot of people called it the unlucky bracelet because I started really losing right after I got this bracelet coincidentally. And then I had it cleansed with sage and stuff like that in case it actually was unlucky. But I got this um from someone again. I I just bought it for I had my jeweler tell me how much these diamonds were worth individually, how much this gold is worth. And I just paid slightly more than what the meltdown value is. So it's a decent investment. And it just kind of is a thing, you know, Vegas matte flashy jewelry, whatever. Yeah. But I I mean it's it's a hybrid of my psychological profile from my childhood and just I like cool stuff. >> How much did you pay then for that chain and what's it worth now? Cuz gold's gone up. >> Yeah. A lot. >> I bought it like 3 years ago and I think I paid 10,000. It's probably worth 20,000 now. Something like that. It's This one's 10 karat. This one's 18 karat. This This is like a pound of 10 karat. So whatever. I don't know the formula to figure it out. But I mean, gold is expensive now. >> That's why I bought this watch. So, I bought this watch about 8 months ago, and I paid $12,500 for this. >> And I bought it because the melt value of this was like $10,500. So, I figured I'd pay $2,000 basically for a really rare Rolex. Yeah. >> And now with gold prices up, the melt value is worth more than I paid for the watch. And so, I got a free Rolex. >> Smart. Yeah. That's I mean those are good like uh buying the you know the right watches and stuff. If you're going to waste your money, get something that that you know saves value. The cars obviously is just straight dumb. Jets straight dumb. But uh you know we work I mean we work so hard like I I don't think there's anyone that outworks us. I mean it would be difficult. And not necessarily me, but you know, Robert and EJ, those guys work like literally probably 16 to uh EJ probably 16. Robert probably more like 18 to 20 hours a day. He doesn't sleep. And um so, you know, every once in a while you treat yourself, but that you know, you might as well if you're going to make some money you spend it, buy something intelligent like so goodbye on that watch. You want to sell it? >> No. [laughter] We had asked you this last time and it went pretty viral and I I want to see if your answer has changed any bit in the past year or so. Would you say are you addicted to gambling? I don't know. Like I mean that addiction is such a complex uh you know topic, you know, not an addiction expert, but I certainly enjoy it, you know, a lot. And it's what I love to do. And and again, I think I said earlier, even if I'm not working, you know, or making content and I have a free Sunday here in town, uh there's a very good chance that I'm going to be gambling. And I don't find many other things as stimulating. You know, if I'm on vacation, we were on a cruise recently and, you know, we stopped in uh Puerto Rico and you know, I went to the beach and I walked on the beach for a little while. I'm like, "Hey, I'm walking on the beach, you know. I don't know if you ever been there." I'm like, "Yeah, I'm sitting in the sun." And then it got kind of hot, you know, and then we went to the shopping area, you know, and there's nothing but the crap you see everywhere. And like, I don't need any of that. And then I went on a little tour where they said, you know, in 1697, this is where I forget now, but it was a lot of history in Puerto Rico. And, you know, this is in the all these statues of presidents. and I drove around at the main area and then I'm like, "Okay, that was cool." And then we still had like 6 hours to kill, so I was like, "Ah, let's go to the casino." So, I don't know. I I mean, addicted maybe, you know, but I I definitely I think I could quit, you know. >> How long could you go without gambling? >> Uh I mean, not more than a day with cuz I need to put out a video every day. >> Let's let's remove that. How long could you go without gambling until it gets uncomfortable? >> Oh, I don't know. I I've never done it like in so long I couldn't even tell you. Like I mean some you know I was at my doctor today and by the way my blood work was incredible. >> Oh yeah. Uh my doctor asked me how often are you in the casino and I think it's probably 28 out of 30 days. I I I maybe take 2 days a month off. Maybe it's probably more like 29. >> Would you say the world would be a better place if gambling was illegal? >> Oh I don't know. Uh, [gasps] I mean, if gambling was illegal, like I would think the world would be a better place if you know if as long as you didn't like hurt someone that you could do what you wanted and you didn't have someone telling you what to do. You know what I mean? Obviously, like violence should be illegal, but I don't I don't think that something that an adult chooses to do is should I someone else should be able to tell me what I can and can't do with money that I've earned and paid taxes on. So, I don't know. But does it cause harm and stuff like that? I would I would imagine yes. You know, there are people who maybe don't have enough money and then they start gambling and they think that's going to be their ticket to ride. But then again, franchises, you know, a lot of people buy franchises and they think that they're just going to, you know, it's going to be easy. They got to buy a franchise and then they open up the doors and nobody comes and they don't follow the playbook and then they lose their life savings on a franchise. So, should franchises be illegal? A lot of people think, "Oh, I'm I watched Million-Dollar Listing. I'm going to become a realtor and that's how I'm going to make my fortune." And then they don't work hard and they don't follow up and they don't respond to their texts from clients and they don't do anything and they don't show any houses and they or they're too dumb to pass the test and they don't make any money becoming a realtor. So should should becoming a realtor be illegal? Where do you draw the line? Like I don't I just think you can lose money at anything and so I think people should be able to make their own decisions. I I don't really I'm not really big on people telling me what to do. >> I tend to agree. I think everything in life is kind of a double-edged sword. Some people are going to benefit from the exact same stimulus and then other people will suffer consequences from the exact same stimulus. It's just kind of a matter a matter of like, you know, where you take the hand that you're dealt. >> Yeah. I mean, it's just like trying to legislate behavior and stuff is just it's just impossible. And if you made it illegal, then there would just be more illegal gambling. The new debate right now is whether or not the prediction markets are gambling and whether or not that is considered gambling or that is something that you could have an educated um you know place of money on. Let's say like instead of betting what the weather is, you have a historical you know knowledge on what the weather is in Boston tomorrow and can place money on that. >> It's it's gambling. I I don't know. You're asking me if it's gambling. I mean I I know that on the prediction marketers you can bet on the football game. >> Yeah. But but you could argue and they argue that some people have uh more knowledge than others on which team is statistically more likely to win and therefore you could have an edge based on your experience with that thing. >> My answer would be who cares? [laughter] Do it all. It doesn't make any difference. It's stupid. It just gives more lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and and people excuses to take money from people and find people and run their whole extortion racket. That's my opinion. >> It does. But then what's interesting is that people don't view day trading stocks or buying options or selling options the same way at all. >> It's even though to me that's riskier extremely risky. >> Not not selling options but covered calls covered calls. Nothing wrong with cover calls is a good strategy. WBG taught me that one. But it but again, all these young kids, I've seen so many of them uh and and some of these rackets that come along with like, oh, some super duper trading software and people think they're going to make money trading options or trading commodities or whatever it is. I don't do any of it, but like I've seen countless people, they go, "Oh man, I've been doing it on test mode and I'm making 10% a day. I'm about ready to go in." And then they take their whole IRA and put it in. and they start trading it on this software and then they have there's one really volatile day in the market and then they lose everything. Happens every single time. That should be illegal, but you know, or should it? I just don't really believe in legislating people's behavior unless they're hurting somebody. That's just my opinion. >> I am curious now that you're going to these casinos all the time and you're you're more popular than you've ever been. >> How difficult is it now becoming to go gamble publicly? We uh I walk into, you know, some of the casinos that we play at regularly and there are fans there just like waiting to get pictures and it's just so humbling and I I just absolutely love it and there and 99.9% of the people are just so nice and it's just like they I feel like I know you. I'm like well you do you listen to us every day and and uh and it's it's a lot of fun and we generally now play places where they make it really easy for us to film. So once I get done, you know, with all the hellos and the taking of the pictures and so forth, once we set up and we start filming, there's usually a little bit of a perimeter around us, weirdly, and and people watching and saying, "Hey, you know, they'd love to take a picture with you. Let's wait till they finish filming." And it's it's super fun. Like every day it's imag like I never would have dreamt that there'd be people that would even give a [ __ ] about taking a picture with me, you know? Now, there's like I'll come out of the high limit room and then then the, you know, the casino manager or whoever's with us will say, "Okay, you guys line up." And then there'll be like a line of like 20 people to get a picture. It's so it's so awesome. And so it takes me, you know, five or 10 minutes, but it's just the most flattering thing in the world and it's fun and the people are super nice and I'm so happy that they watch. We wouldn't be anything if it wasn't for all those people. So, it's a little more complicated to film because of the the attention, but it also makes it more fun and and we get it done. What's the craziest gift you've ever received? >> The craziest gift, bar none, we meet these guys, they want to do business with us. We had never heard of them. We're at the Super Bowl and um we're texting or our manager's texting them and says, "Hey, blah blah blah." And then she texts us says, "Hey, these guys, they seem nice. They really want to meet you. can you meet him, you know, in front of this bar in New Orleans? And so we meet him and then they're like all in suits and we're like just martyroing it up and and we start walking and talking with them and they're they're pretty nice and um and we ended up on this like this park and we just sitting on like a park bench with like seagulls. I it was weird and and and we're having this like somewhat serious meeting and then at the end they're like well it was really really nice to meet you and by the way we we we brought you a gift. congratulations on hitting a million subscribers. I'm like, "Oh, that's nice." And there's this bag and it's tissue paper and stuff. And I open it up and it's a it's a Rolex and it was it was silver and I'm thinking, you know, it's probably a stainless bra. It's $10,000. It's a you know, pretty decent gift and from some random guys that are just trying to do some business with us. And then uh and then I open it up and I and I put it on. I'm like, "Wow, it's heavy." Like, "Well, it's platinum." And [laughter] it was like a solid platinum presidential Rolex as a just a random gift that someone gave us. So that was that was interesting. >> It's probably worth 40 to 60 grand. >> I think it was 65 retail. >> Wow. >> Did you end up doing business with them >> after a long courtship? Like that was kind of an interesting first date, but yeah, we ended up doing business with them. And I think it's actually a smart strategy for anyone watching. I mean, got us a a $65,000 gift for us. I'll take it. >> Yeah. you guys. But uh yeah, funny enough, we did and I think that definitely got our attention. But uh yeah, that was a weird that was weird. I forgot about that. Thanks, EJ. >> Wow. Now, for a lot of the casinos, what's the biggest deal you've seen in terms of offering influencers to use their product or to gamble at their casino? Uh, I can tell you this much that one of my friends who is in this space who had been doing it a lot longer than me, we sat at dinner at the Cosmopolitan and I'm young and fresh and I've always been in sales and I'm enthusiastic and I [gasps] and I'm like, man, these casinos, they're going to they are going to pay and they're going to be dying to have us and I I'm so mad. We got kicked out of the, you know, for filming or whatever. He's like, they're never going to get it. Believe me, I've been beating my head against the wall for years. they're never going to get it. And I go, they're going to get it. They're going to see the value. And I can just tell you, it's come a long way and it's getting better all the time. And the casinos that have, you know, done intelligent deals with influencers, uh, are really seeing the benefits. And I think it's still very, very out of whack. like the money that the influencers are making for the casinos, they're they're getting way the better end of the deal. And I think there's a lot lot more room for the influencers to make even more money before a true equilibrium that's fair is reached. But they're some of them are getting more and more uh generous all the time. It's getting better and better and better. I It's a really fun space and it's been fun being involved in it and watching it kind of come from you can't film here to please will you come here, we'll send you a plane. It >> was quite a it's it's it's quite fun. >> And really quick, I just want to say that you don't have to overhaul your entire life going into the new year. Sometimes it's as simple as making a few smart swaps, especially with what you're snacking on. And that's exactly why we are super excited to be sponsored by Masa. They make tortilla chips with real ingredients. 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And I know it sounds ridiculous. Of course, it's a sponsor, so of course I'm going to say this. They really are that good. And because they're made with real ingredients, they're also much more filling. So, you're not just going to sit down, eat an entire bag, and then still feel hungry afterwards. If you want to try Masa Chips, head to masa chips.com/ic and use the code iced to checkout for 25% off your first order. Or you could scan the QR code on the screen, and the link is also down below in the description. And if you don't want to order online, Masa is now available nationwide at Sprouts. So, make sure to grab a couple of bags the next time you're there. Now, usually Fridays are about easing into the weekend, but during NBA season, the energy starts even before the games tip off. That's why we're excited to be sponsored by FanDuel in their NBA happy hour every Friday from 6:00 to 7:30 Eastern. It's your pregame for the weekend. That includes boosts, bonuses, and surprises that are only available during that window. And the offer changes every week. It's a simple way to check what's available before the first game starts and to make a move before the night gets going. Just be sure to get in before the shot clock expires at 7:30 Eastern. And once happy hour ends, those specials are gone. >> It's an easy way to kick off the weekend. A little basketball, a little action, and that Friday night NBA energy. >> That's NBA Happy Hour every Friday from 6:00 to 7:30 p.m. Eastern, only on FanDuel, the official sportsbook partner of the NBA. And of course, I want to make it crystal clear, sports betting is not investing. It's just something that I like to do for fun. And watching the NBA, watching the NFL is very fun, but it's a little bit more fun when you have a couple bucks on the game. So it's just something I like doing. This is for 21 plus and president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas casino or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Often required rewards are non-drawable. Restrictions apply including bon bon bon bon bon bon bon bon bon bonus tok token expiration leg requirements and match wager amounts. C terms at sportsbook.com gambling problem call 18800 gambler or visit rg-help.com8789777 or visit ccpg.org/ chat in Connecticut or visly help.org Maryland. Hope is there visit gamblinghelline ma.org or call 80032750 for 247 support Massachusetts or call 7778 hopey or text hopey in New York. For the average person, what's the best way to get comps at a casino? Well, I think that one is I I would suggest, you know, you pick one casino or casino group and you play there consistently. You always use your players card. You you swipe your card at the kiosk, take advantage of all the promos, read the mailers that they send to you and so forth. So, just I think it's just a matter of playing. One of the mistakes a lot of people make is they'll go and they'll play and they'll they will only play just a little bit. like they might just go like that, oh, I have $100 in free play and they'll go and they'll take the free play and then they'll leave. And what they I think the math it's all varies, but but for the most part they do it based on your average session, you know, from your last x number of visits. So, if you're going to play, you should play quite quite a bit at at the casino. And if you want to like maintain your offers and earn the most comps, which was your original question, I'm not saying I'm not advocating gamble more than you should, but if you're going to it, don't hit and run. If you want to build up some good uh comps, you want to have when you go and go gamble at a place like if you go to Vegas for the weekend, you want to do the majority of your play at the place where you're staying, you know, so you so you put a lot of coin in, you know, they look at you that the the the EV that they're their expected win from you is higher and then because that's what's going to determine the offer that they send you next. >> So here's what's interesting. We went to a casino and a buddy was playing blackjack. went to talk with the person in charge of I guess comps. They looked at his play and they said, "Hey, listen. You're only playing $25 a hand. We can't offer you any comps. You need to play minimum $100 a hand to start getting comps." And the comps would include free food or free hotel things like this. >> Slots come up a lot. >> Comps are a lot better from slots than they are from tables. >> Yeah, this was for table games. Uh take because think about it, blackjack is really a half percent or let's call it a 1%. People don't play perfect 1% hold for the casino. >> So if you're betting $100 a hand, they're making mathematically that they're making a dollar a hand. Less labor cost, insurance, you know, security, etc., etc., etc. It's not like there's a lot of meat on the bone. Now, contrast that with slots. Every $100 you put into a slot machine, they're making 8 to 12% more than likely. So, they're going to be able to comp you a lot more. Plus, there's no they're not paying a dealer for a slot machine. It's just electricity. Uh, so yeah, the comps on table games, I think that's probably very accurate. You know, you you're a big table games player, you're going to get comp. You know, you're playing thousand hands of Bak Raw, you know, every hand if they're making 1%. I mean, it still is only 10 bucks. >> It just seems like the bar has risen so high. Like I remember in 2011 I could go to M Resort, >> spend 500 bucks for the whole weekend playing craps and table games. They would compass free food every single day and every third trip you get a free room. And that was spending like $500 at, you know, uh crabs. >> Yeah. >> Back then. And now I I can't even imagine how many thousands of dollars it would take. >> It's gotten very corporate Vegas. like in the '8s, you know, when I was young, >> uh, it was the power of the pen and a lot of it was your relationship, who you knew, you know, there were some people who were really good at working the hosts and they thought they were much bigger players than they were. And I mean, the it was a paper comp slip, you know, and they would just write up a comp. >> That's what I used to get. And nowadays, uh, it's all computerized and it's just, you know, it's formulas and it's like, okay, profits are down. We're going to change the point value on this, that, and the other thing. And it's all very, very, very corporate with the multi-billion dollar corporations running most of the bigger casinos. And so, yeah, I think that has a lot to do with it. It's corporate greed. I like the good old days, you know, uh, I was going to say when the mob ran this town, but I'm not going to say that. Uh, but I guess they did. I mean, wasn't it like in the history, didn't Bugsy Seagull and those guys? I mean, I'm just just a historian. Uh, you guys, we should definitely talk to EJ and WBG a little bit too because those guys you talk about when you think of Vegas Matt like it's not Vegas Matt like me. It's Vegas Matt is, you know, me, Robert, EJ, John, the whole cast nowadays. And um but I'm I'm uh happy to answer a question, but don't want you to forget to talk to those guys because they are the heart and soul of this of everything that we do and and they do all the work. >> So, we're going to ask you a couple more questions and then get on to the finances of everything because we're very curious. We're like a financial podcast, but these two questions that I have first for you. What is your dream gamble? >> My dream gamble. >> Yeah. Like is there something that you've always wanted when you're at the casino? hitting this one bonus or maybe like putting a million dollars on a hand like Dana White says or betting on one thing or another. >> Well, I I mean, right, I want to get the million dollar grand, you know, or the $2 million grand on Dragon Link, which is, you know, something that it's like the prize that, you know, that doesn't hit very often. Some people have gotten it. I've never gotten that. Uh there's a game called Buffalo Gold Collection where we want to get the 15 Buffalo Heads. There's a game called Wolf Peak where we've never gotten the bonus. We've probably put hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars through the machine and we've never triggered the bonus. So, we're going to get the Wolf uh Wolf Peak bonus. Be sure to ask that question of EJ and WBG because I'm sure there's stuff that I'm forgetting. Uh I've talked about doing a million-doll hand. Um the problem is is no one will take the action. You know, we >> What about Dana? I I think you know he's got special you know special uh >> but you could go headtohead with him. >> Yeah, I suppose. But does he bet a million a hand? Does does Caesars or whoever take a million hand? >> I don't know. I thought it was like 250. >> But you I'm saying you and Dana could go you play the house or he plays the house and it's just exchanging 1 million from one person. >> Well, that would be illegal. >> Is it? >> Yeah, I think so. >> It could be for entertainment purposes only. >> Games or gamb. I don't know. Like you say, everything's illegal. >> He I'm sure Dana could get a license if he >> Yeah. I mean, give him a call. I'd love to I'd love to see him again. And I haven't seen him in a while. We me and Steve and Dana played uh slots and Dana's like, "Slotss? The hell's wrong with you guys?" And then Steve was like fast spinning $250 spin huff and puff and I had like me, we were chopping the ticket, you know, so I'm like, "Slow down there, Steve." And I this guy's great. And then boom, he hits something. We won like $37,000. And then Dana's like, "Wow, that's really cool." And it was a great video. And Dana was very nice. I don't know him well enough, like I don't have his phone number. I couldn't text him and say, "Daniel, you want to bet a million?" But that would be really cool. If you guys arrange that, I'll definitely go. Uh, but the casinos like you'd be surprised like uh the the limits are not that high. Now, you can negotiate special limits like if you put five or $10 million, they don't want just one hand for a million dollars. You know, they might get really beat. They want you to put up front money or wire in $10 million. Then they'll let you play maybe a half a million a hand or something like that cuz they they they have a very good chance of beating you for the whole 10 million because you're not going to play one hand and quit. >> Why not do four hands at the same time? $250,000 each. >> No, it sounds fun to me. Uh >> you don't think they would allow that? I you're you're splitting the risk more. >> Again, >> you want one hand, $1 million. >> I mean, that would I just think it would be cooler to do like one hand for a million dollars. Like when we hit a million subscribers, that's what I wanted to do. Um, but we couldn't find anyone that would take that bet from us. The biggest we got was uh the peppermill said they take $100,000 and so we did a $100,000 hand to Bakar. And I'm telling you, I almost passed out. I mean, that was that was a lot, you know. I mean, $100,000 is a lot of money. And it was like $100,000 one hand of Bakarat and then we got like a natural eight or natural nine and I just jumped up and then I almost passed out. Uh, it was really funny. >> What was that feeling like? >> It was awesome. I mean, because it it felt so great to win. I would have felt like a complete idiot. Like, all right, we hit a million subscribers and to celebrate, I'm going to lose $100,000. You know, that's just dumb. So, it's always always the videos do better when we win. But, you know, people always say, "Oh, it's rigged. They're paid by the casino." Like, I wish. Oh, it's real money. You know, I mean, yes, we make money, you know, but that's my money. That's like saying a doctor comes and gamles and says, "Well, it's not really his money cuz he makes so much as a doctor." Like, well, okay, we make a lot of money as a YouTuber, but YouTube sends me my check and I go and gamble it. If I lose it, I lose it. The casino is not going to give me the money back. You know what I mean? So, but it's much more fun when you win those big hands, but it's terrible when you lose them. >> If you could only play one game for the rest of your life, what game would it be? If it was a like a casino table game, uh Bakar I think we uh again we all of us uh have popularized the game of Bakar and I think that Vegas Mat started playing that a lot and and we you know we peel the cards back you know like it's kind of the tradition in the in the peel bakra game and everyone always comments they're like you guys are so obnoxious bending those cards you know you think you're so special and it's like It's part of the culture, you know, like you you look in the big high limit, the Asian, you know, gaming. It's like that's what they do. They sit there and it's a very social game and and so whoever bets the most gets to touch the cards. That's how it works. So if you're the one, if you're the biggest better, they push the cards to you and then you get to look and you peel it up and you see, oh, there's three dot there's three diamonds. Okay, it's a it's a six, seven or an eight. Let me look at the other one. No dots. It's an ace, two or three. And you know it's it's it you could build tension and it's it's fun and everyone's around and you're all betting you know either player or banker. It's a very social game. So like when we go out at night and we're you know we're all having fun we always end up in the in the baka. The other night we were playing and we first of you know I don't know how this happens. We always bet banker uh and so we sit down banker and then we just run into it like an eight player streak. So, you know, first we bet a,000, we bet a couple thousand, we bet 6,000, we bet 10,000, and we got to the point where we were down 65,000 in a matter of like about seven or eight hands. And there was a few of us kind of going in on it. And then we bet $45,000 on one hand and then we finally won and then we won a couple more and we ended up breaking even. But that was like a 45 minutes of just absolute hilarity and fun. So, it's a So, long answer to short question is love Bakar. That's dangerous because it makes me want to gamble what I just said. But I'm not I can't I can't do that. >> Hypothetically, if you could be the house, would you put up a million dollars against a hand of black? No. >> But if you were the house, you'd have a an advantage. >> Half percent. >> Would you? >> No, you wouldn't. That's a horrible question. >> Why would that be a horrible question? >> Because why would I do that? You have a statistical edge. my life if I get a million dollars right now would be maybe maybe 10 to 15% like like better than uh if I lost 1 million my life would be like 100% worse. So, like that's, you know what I mean? Like I saying the risk what? 500,000 each. >> No, if you had a chance to be the house, you should definitely do it. Like I mean, but but maybe one hand, but if you could be that, if you could be the house for a month, then you'd win 100% of the time, >> right? But like me me doing a million is like is the same thing as me, hey Graham, would you do it $10 million? You're the house. Would you do it? >> Well, one hand. >> No, I wouldn't do it. >> There you go. I mean, I think it's >> But you would do it if you could be the house for like if you could take the houses side with any casino in this town for a month. >> Oh, yeah. It would take you crazy not to because you're going to the one hand. That's why the casinos don't even do it. >> One hand. Yeah. That one hand is is risky, but you know, being the house is >> my understanding with one hand on a hand of blackjack, if you're the house, you have a 53% chance of winning. One single hand. I know this because I go to the casino a lot and I just place one bet and that's it. one bet. If I win, I double, and if I lose, I walk away. And so, I've always gone in thinking, where am I gonna get my best odds? And it's usually bakarov because blackjack, you're not likely to win on one hand. You're likely to get 50/50 over like 10 to 20 hands. >> Well, I mean, that's that's cuz every time you play a hand, you're giving away a little bit more. So, the best gambling strategy, if you really wanted to maximize it, if you had a budget of $1,000, would be to bet it on one hand, then just and then quit. Yes. regardless of what happened. And then you and then over time you probably would win about half the time, >> you know. So that's a smart strategy. No surprise, young Graham. >> We want to talk about some YouTube numbers, the business you guys are doing. So we're going to bring EJ on here. >> All right. So we've brought EJ on as well because you're kind of like the brains behind the finances and YouTube strategy, money strategy, right? >> Sure. WBG and I Yeah. >> So how much are you allowed to lose per video? I don't think we really think about it in those terms anymore. I think that the expected loss of one of our videos is probably around $4,000. So that's our uh cost. That's before like any free plays or offers we get just from our play, which is generally in the range of I don't know 300 to a,000 dollars per day. So we don't really think about it like that anymore. We can fortunately now we could lose a lot on a video and it wouldn't make much of a difference. It's all as long as we are making the right decisions and we understand what the results could potentially be, we will do things smart. Like we we did $1,000 a spin for hitting 1.25 million. >> And we figured, okay, we could possibly lose a h 100,000 if we do $125,000 spins in a worst case. And we're like, we can live with that. That's not the expected result. The expected result is probably lose uh 14 15,000. We lost a h 100red and there was a big contingent of people blaming me for that. But it went about as bad as it could have possibly gone and we lost 100 grand that day. >> We actually made an I blame EJ t-shirt. So people blamed him because we switched machines and and everyone blamed him for switching machines and but we ended up doing well on the t-shirt. >> No. Yeah. We might have made a couple thousand dollars on [laughter] the t-shirt, but >> No. Yeah. I was just like, "This machine seems cool. we should switch, which by the way, it does not matter. Every time you push the button, it's an independent event. We could have potentially done worse. It's not likely had we stayed, but yeah, moving in hindsight was a bad choice. >> So, what type of calculations do you guys do to know how much you can lose? Like, or is it just kind of like a ah we could probably lose 100 grand on this. Uh we could spare 50,000 here. >> I think that uh you're maybe giving us more credit than we deserve thinking about it that way from the beginning. And again, WBG, who we'll talk to in a minute, he said like, "We can't afford this based on projections of what we will make." And then there was moments, and credit to him for giving us the confidence to go forward and do it. And now we don't think about it because I mean, you guys know how YouTube is, and it it's it's good. And if we lost a million dollars a month, it would we would go bankrupt. But um we generally don't do anything too crazy except for maybe a couple times a month where we could lose upwards of $100,000. >> How often do you balance the budget? Is it weekly, monthly, quarter? >> So like he mentioned earlier, we have that fund of money that we keep for gambling and then add to it as needed. And right now there's just a surplus because we've done so much winning. So, we're kind of just in a very comfortable position where we we don't even really need to think about it because this money has already been allotted to the gambling. And until that such time as that money is gone, we're we're just making all the money from the content. >> How much do you have in the fund right now? >> About $156,000. But I mean, I don't pay that close. >> More actually. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's like 210. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. 210 in that fund. The gambling fund. >> It was up to over 300, but there it's taken some hits. So, you just don't see that money as yours. >> It's his and it's theirs. But they it's just that money is what we use to make the uh videos and we'll add to it as needed. But hopefully we just keep getting lucky and win. But yeah, you like you think about it. How do you view that money? Like it's already gone in your mind, right? >> Like I said, I think when when it's depleted and it gets to the point where every day we have to add to it, then it's really painful, you know? But once there's like a little bit in it and it's like ah it goes up and down and as long as there's still money in that fund. I mean I'm thrilled. I haven't had to add money in a few months. >> How much would you have to lose to quit the channel? >> I mean it it'd be a lot. It's it's as you guys know you have a podcast and you get a lot of views and hopefully you'll get a lot on this. I'll encourage our audience to watch it. I mean there's a lot of money to be made in this and that and then with sponsors and all that other stuff. I mean, you know, after doing this every day and as hard as they've worked on this, you know, we we I don't I don't think we could lose. >> How are the finances like split up between the people? Like is it like even kill? >> The three of us are even partners. >> Mhm. >> Do you ever have any disagreements because you're all even that like one person believes very strongly for one thing and the two like outnumber the one? >> We get along surprisingly well. Uh, I would say >> yeah, I think that um WBG and I generally agree on like anything content related most of the time and he doesn't really feel too strongly about any of it. So, he just goes and has a good time and then if he ever feels really strongly about something, we do it. So, it it never there's never been an issue. The only >> I'm in charge technically. >> Sure. Yeah. If you're gambling then off camera, is that with your own money or was is that with like the >> his own his he calls it his walking around money. Okay. >> That's just the money that he keeps on him. That's his own. It's separate from the the budget that we used to produce the video. >> The $3,000 coffee was your own money. >> Oh yeah. I mean I couldn't go, "Oh guys, I was at coffee and I lost $3,000." >> No, that wouldn't fly. No. >> So it's like So like this is my walking around money. >> Oh, can I hold [laughter] it? >> Uh and it's heavy. Let's see. Yeah, >> that's >> and so so like this is this is this is because and see the stuff is a different color that's like the the you know like the ones and fives and tens and 20s but it's mostly hundreds and this money clip by the way was a gift. We got a money clip from one of our fans and it's the best money clip and and and huge >> and and it can hold it can hold 150 bills. So 15,000 is the capacity and this is available at the Vegasmat.com merch store where where uh thousands of lucky people have this very money clip. >> So how much do you have that in cash? >> I'd say this is about 9600 bucks it would be my guess. So you as a young guy with 33% of the money that Vegas Matt channel makes, I imagine you're probably doing pretty well. But he said you still drive like a pickup truck. >> Yeah. Despite his best efforts, I thought and a few people have convinced or are talking me into buying a more expensive car, Ferrari or something along those lines. But I don't I don't know. >> What are you doing with all the being young and like making a lot? >> Just working, putting the money with the rest for now. as soon as it's enough to retire forever, then I'll really maybe >> So, what are you doing in the meantime though? Are you investing it or is it >> Yeah, investing it. Yeah, I have a financial adviser and uh he invests a lot of it in the stock market. >> I I buy uh gold and crypto and whatever, but for the most part just letting my guy handle it and I focus on this. So, >> what is that amount that you said is enough to retire forever? >> I don't know. I you know, for a long time he said 10 and now he's saying 20. So, he's moving the goal post. It sounds like >> I think I hear five, but I don't know. >> Um >> I think you need 20. >> Yeah, if you I don't know. We'll see. >> What do you guys know? Like what do you think a really comfortable retirement house >> How old are you? >> Uh 31. >> Okay. So, I mean I would >> depends on how much you like living in. Yeah. You could do five, you could do two 10, you could do 20, maybe 30. I mean >> I asked Jad GPT. I I I put in all my different portfolios and then I ask it how I'm doing and if I could retire and it says, "Yeah, you probably could, but you'd have to adjust your lifestyle." And I'm like, "I don't really want to adjust the lifestyle just yet." So, >> he wrote like a chat GBT net worth convo that you could just prompt it and say, "What's my net worth today?" Like, you know, it's pretty cool. >> Yeah. I would say like at your age, a 3% withdrawal rate is probably reasonable. So, if you have 10 million bucks, 300 grand a year. >> Yeah, it's great. I mean, you could if you weren't like gambling or doing anything. I mean, I you could probably live on 300,000 a year. >> Yeah. Easy. >> Probably you could certainly you could with your $3,000 coffees. You could certainly live off of $300,000. Very, very, very comfortable. I could. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What are your thoughts on Bitcoin? Because you guys are pretty early in on Bitcoin. I'm saying that and you're like, I don't think about that. >> I haven't uh been able to give it too much brain power lately. It's just focused on this. I think we actually when we talked to you last, I don't know if it was on the podcast or not, but you said you just dollar cost average and don't even think about it. You still do. Yeah. So, you're doing really well. And >> I've been meaning to just dump all the altcoins and just hold Bitcoin in and dollar cost average that way cuz I don't want to give it. >> I told you to sell all the Ethereum at 4,400 and you and you were >> You said 10%. You did not say all of it. You said sell 10%. But you changed it to sell 100%. You're like, you cost us hundreds of thousands. >> No. You guys invest together? >> Well, yeah, I manage the crypto just from back then >> when it was like all so wild west. I was >> making sure we didn't get hacked or whatever. And so it's just still in that >> those accounts. >> I got hacked. Uh they when they they did a a a SIM swap and all of a sudden my phone just went dead and it says, "Oh, your SIM." And I'm like, "What?" And then uh they got into my my email and everything else, but he had it uh set up with uh two factor and like a lot of really higher security and they weren't able to get anything. And then they then they sent me one time my wife was getting out of the shower and this sounds kind of weird but I just like I snapped a picture of her for some reason, you know? So she's like naked in this picture and I had it on my phone and uh sorry her face wasn't it. >> How do you know that? >> Actually no they don't know. Let me finish the story. So, [laughter] so, so I had this picture of my wife on my phone, right? And then they got into my iCloud and everything when they did the SIM swap. And then they they texted me and they said, "It's the hackers." And then they're like, "Yeah, and if you don't send us this, I'm going to show your wife this picture." And I text, "That's my wife. >> Why did you tell them this or why didn't you play along?" Be like, "No, don't. I said it's my wife." And you're giving them more like >> go f yourself. Like I just sold them to just go to to pound sand and they didn't get anything. I wouldn't have said that. >> If I was the scammer, I would have been like, "Okay, I'm gonna release this picture of your wife." I would just be like, "Oh, don't don't do that." >> I mean, she's a Pilates instructor. She's like really in good shape. I don't think I wouldn't I wouldn't be embarrassed if I was ear. >> Yeah. No, it's it's funny. It's a good story. But yeah, they So, they would have been able to get into his Coinbase account with the text. That's like a very common hack, but they didn't. >> Thankfully, we dodged a few bullets in the crypto space over the years, so that was good. >> FTX, he calls me at like 11 o'clock at night and he's like, "Yeah, we got to get all your FTX out." And and then so he did a bunch of stuff and then I and I tried I go I want to get some cash and so I like I I did a a for $50,000 and then overnight when it took the a so every we got all the crypto out but the 50,000 of cash that I tried to take out just disappeared and I and then I'd never like they send these forms for the bankruptcy and I've never filled them out. So >> you never filled them out? >> No. >> They're paying back 118%. They have a recovery over 100%. I know, but it's just so complicated and I don't remember. And and >> they're paying back dollar for dollar. >> Can you get I'll give you half the money if you can get my FTX. >> I think it's too late. >> Oh, is it? I have 50 grand that basically I did an a night that it went down and I never got the money and they owe me 50 grand. So, if there's any FTX administrators listening, uh, your forms are too complicated for old people to figure out >> figure out how to submit a claim. Seriously, >> a little late, but >> I you you might be passing caught up. I don't know. >> That's the great thing about being >> chalk it up to we lost that day. You know what I That's the great thing about being a gambler cuz like anything that happens you can always say ah just pretend like I lost it you know or like if a Christmas gift is kind of expensive like well if I had won I could have afforded it like money takes on a weird uh thing when you're a gambler. >> What's Christmas like with you guys? I imagine you're getting pretty crazy presents for each other. I would imagine we're not getting anything for each other is my guess because like there like we don't need anything like I I like to give stuff like uh my neighbor's doing u an event at Allegiance Stadium like the largest event for veterans in the history and so like I would rather just give money uh which I do a lot of by the way to the haters that you know cuz like there's this kid bluff who's great uh great great friend of ours you know and he's doing a lot of real public giving you know like buying tacos for everybody and stuff like that. It's like I I do a lot of giving like privately and they're like you should be more like bluff and give money away. It's like mind your own business. Why don't you go start a channel and you give your money away? But I mean I I don't DJ doesn't need another watch or anything like that. I'd rather give money during this season. >> It's cool. We just My sister just had a kid, so this is going to be her second Christmas. But that's going to be fun. Like when she gets older, buying gifts for her and being able to spoil the grandbaby is going to be a lot of fun. So, I'm curious now for the business, what does the income look like? Where are you making the most amount of money? Where is the money coming from? >> Yeah. A large portion of it is uh YouTube and then another large portion of it is uh sponsors. And then something that we really love that is all of our passions is the merchandise. You can see him and I wearing it. >> Love that the fans support it. Love that they enjoy it. We try to produce stuff that they'll enjoy wearing and that is a smaller portion of it. I would say maybe the breakdown would be 50/50 with YouTube and sponsors and then some merchandise and stuff >> without getting into too much detail. But >> and if you're trying to expand the revenue of the business, what do you think is the best way to maximize that? >> Well, if we're trying >> to grow the business, yeah, >> if we're trying to grow the business so we make better videos and grow the audience and then in turn more deal flow will come in and more ad revenue from YouTube. So, it all comes down to making the best videos you can and having the most fun, which he specializes in. >> Do you worry about YouTube cracking down on these sorts of videos? >> So, I thought they just announced a new like an age verification or you're not allowed to link or show certain things on screen. >> Yes, we do worry about that. Yes, the policies have changed quite a bit. Brick and mortar, they still uh they don't age restrict it. Um, but online, I think that there are companies in the online space that are maybe bad actors. So, they're trying to navigate that and they can't distinguish between the online content that aren't bad actors and the ones that really are. So, they're age restricting online gambling at the moment. But, I think that they'll be able to flesh that over time and figure out which online casinos are regulated and which ones will be tolerated, not tolerated. But for now, that that's a bit of a tricky space. He's more worried about it than I am. I think YouTube enjoys the ad revenue from all different casinos and stuff a little bit too much. >> Casino recently, it seems like YouTube just announced this new AI moderation tool that is going through flagging channels and then having them deleted overnight. And it seems like what they're doing is they're going now back years and then just flagging all these videos concurrently. And then all of a sudden when you get a few strikes, the AI tool just removes the channel. you request a review and then it just says, "Oh, immediately afterwards, it's all AI now." >> Oh, sorry. Your content, you know, doesn't go against our guidelines. Deleted. >> I think that that's why it's important to have a rep, like when you get to be RSIs and the rep would be able to >> fix that if it was wrong. But yeah, it's it's worrying, but that is the space we play in, and so we have to >> I have seen though even with a rep. >> Yeah. >> It seems like it could take weeks, >> right? And that would be a bummer. >> Yeah. So follow us on all the different social medias just in case anything ever happens. >> I guess I mean I'm almost to a point where I guess you know what good does worry do and if it did happen it'd be like okay well you know now I don't have to go film a video every single day. And there's other there's other revenue streams and things like that. Like I like doing I like doing events a lot. Like we do these these fan events, you know, we'll bring people in for like a weekend to a casino. Uh we do cruises. Cruises are an absolute blast. Um, we have a deal with Virgin uh, cruises and we do what, three or four a year now. >> Yeah. 2026. I think we have three scheduled already and maybe going to add a fourth and a fifth. So, >> so it's like, you know, so much fun. We meet the nicest people. I I've got a bunch of like friends that are like I text every day that came to my Christmas party that I met on our first cruise. Like really, really, really nice people. I was kind of concerned when we did our first one, like what if I'm trapped on this boat with a bunch of weirdos and close talkers and, you know, people with bad breath that like to tell secrets and I'm like, "Oh my god, this is going to be awful." And then it turned out everyone was nice. Um, except for that one girl was like stalking you. But yeah, um, >> were you a stalker? >> Not a stalker, but she was like an empty neester old woman and she developed a very strong fascination with me and wouldn't leave me alone the whole cruise. At one point she like cornered me in the hallway and was saying some things and crying and I was like >> well she I I don't know if we can say on the podcast but I was just I said no thank you and I was like I'm not interested. >> She was crying though. >> Oh yeah. She had some stuff going on for sure. >> Yeah. So >> you weren't interested. >> No, not not not at all. >> But most that except for her everyone was really nice and and it's just fun. you know, there's a lot of other things that you can do and and I think yeah, like EJ says, you know, as long as we make great content and we build our audience, you know, the the revenue follows. I could see you guys creating a slot machine and maybe it's like a limited edition slot machine where that you only make five of them. You put like [clears throat] one in a, you know, your top five favorite casinos or just one casino. You got five Vegas mat slot machines all right next to each other and you can spin it and it's like all of your faces like that. That would be fantastic. think it would be an attraction. I feel like lines could form. There's something there. I'm happy I'm happy you're saying it. There absolutely is. Yeah. Uh we haven't had any slot manufacturers reach out or we have, but that the right situation hasn't presented itself. And those big companies have to do so much legal and all this different stuff and they give us all these different excuses. But you're right, it would be good. We'd want thousands of them instead of five because we want to be able to get them in the most amount of places and have it do really really well. >> It would be the best game. I mean, there's a couple of online Vegas Matt slots. There's Vegas Matt Blackjack. There's Vegas Matt Cash Eruption. There's >> Do you guys own them? >> Licensing, I think. I mean, we get I don't know how it works, but >> it's an NIL thing, but >> name, image, and likeness. That's what NIL is. I learned about that. >> And uh but but then but I really would like to have the Vegas Matt slot. Our slot would be the best slot. >> How would you make it the best game? What would you do? How would it look? >> Well, you'd never be out of it. Uh, you know, we'd we just I don't know. It just make it fun. I think it make it fun and it' be, you know, there are a lot of them. They're the same. You know, like there's 82 variations of Huff and Puff and there, you know, they they do all these machines. I So, you take you take, you know, some of the machines that we really really like and take some of the good dynamics from those machines. I would want it to have a a good return to player. I wouldn't want it to be too volatile where you know where where the the big wins are so big but you usually lose. I'd rather have something that's a little bit more even keeled >> more frequent winning. >> Yeah. More frequent bonuses maybe not not as massive. You know, we would just create a really really good slot machine. But just with the funny stuff that we say and so forth, I think our audience would love it and interact with it. And I'd be willing to bet any slot manufacturer that's watching this podcast that it would be the highest performing slot that they would ever put into the casinos. It would be interesting if they lose on one, it just says Sando and then lose again Sando and then you lose another one and you're like, "Oh, just one more. Come on." Could you egg people on? Like >> Well, like on like Vegas Matt Blackjack, you know, like like I'll be like, "Oh, that was brutal." Or, you know, "Oh, what a sando." Or uh like I said something I thought was funny like like I got like a jack of diamonds and a king of clubs and I said, "Oh, jack king off suit. That's EJ's favorite hand, you know, and like tried to make it funny and uh >> yeah, it's a great idea and and I'm I'm shocked that it hasn't happened yet, but I I believe it will. >> So, any other things left to to expand on the business? I'm curious like is it literally just making more high-quality videos, getting higher paying sponsors, and that's it? Or is there any other like stuff in the woodworks? I did hear you guys mention I don't know if I can say this, a movie. That would be fun. He has had the movie idea for a long time of just not necessarily about us but about a lot of the stuff that we know about and see and there you can speak more about it. You talk about your script. >> I mean it would be like Rainman meets the MIT card counting team meets casino. I mean, it WBG doesn't like when I use that analogy, but it's like people think that I mean, I think we could make a movie that's that big about the slot world, about the world of advantage, slot play, all that kind of stuff that people have no idea about. And like I have like the opening scene, you know, the guys walking through the casino, kind of like the Terminator, just like looking at all these things that no one else is noticing. There's this little lady pushing the button. These people over here hooting and hollering and then it's like, "Oh, wait. Someone, you know, that's a there's a 72 on that machine right there. Boom." You know, and then just the uh people like the the the Rainman dynamic is interesting because you know how like autism rates have gone up just like crazy like since 1992 I believe. And I don't know what where what it is caused by and what not. That's a whole another thing. I'll leave that to RFK or whoever's fixing it now. But uh there there's a lot of people on the spectrum that are professional gamblers cuz that that's that's like that Rainman, you know, made that he was pretty extreme example of it. But there are a lot of people that are like not maybe that too far on the spectrum, but they're on the spectrum like super math geniuses and so forth. And then there's tales that I'm aware of of people not in the too distant past of people getting taken in back rooms, beaten up. Like casinos do not like when you beat them. There's danger and intrigue and so much interesting stuff that happens in the world of gambling and professional gambling and and I thought the MIT card counting the Kevin Spacy one was so well done. That movie 21 and I think the slot underworld is even more interesting. So >> way more >> coming soon to a theater near you. And then there's uh we did a they did a uh reality show like a doc series for like six months they had us miked up everywhere like the restroom was weird sometimes and I forget that I had a mic on and and I mean they literally were like 24/7 we were miked up and they and they they did all this behind the scenes concert. to do a docu series. We were approached about us doing a sitcom like where they had actors play us and you know we never end up doing that deal but yeah all kinds of crazy stuff comes up. I personally want to do a regular Vegas Matt show like a variety show like here in Vegas or people come and go to the Vegas Matt show. EJ doesn't isn't as crazy about that idea as I am. I really believe that we could do a great show and and make it fun and entertaining and have and and fill uh theaters and I think that we would fill theaters with people, you know, like uh I don't know, Carrie Underwood or Janet Jackson or whoever fills a theater, you know, those people come, they go to the theater, they go to the show, and then you know, they may put a dollar in the slot machine, you know, but everyone who comes to my show probably on the way out stop at the high limit room and gamble $50,000 and it would probably be the most profitable show in the history of shows for Las Vegas if we were to do that. First one's in April. >> I'm going to list off a bunch of casino games and you guys are going to rate it one out of 10. >> Oh, fun. Okay. >> One out of 10 or one to 10. >> I know what you meant. >> One one. Not one to 10. One out of 10. We're going to >> Oh, which one's Are we giving each one a rating or are we ranking them from one to 10? >> Just one to 10. You're not You're not ranking them 1 to 10. You're just rating them rating. So, if we really like it, it's maybe a nine or an eight or seven. >> Yeah. >> 67. >> Okay. Jeez, >> I still don't understand that. >> I don't I don't think that there is anything to understand, unfortunately. It's just a 67. >> How close to the mic should he be? >> Oh, it's great. >> Oh, that's good. Okay. >> All right. Dragon Link. >> Oh, probably an eight. >> I mean, it's the most popular game in in the casino. I think there are better games. I like it. Yeah. 7.5. I >> think it's getting old. I'm going to go six >> Buffalo. Buffalo in general. The entire frame. Buffalo Gold. Uh, you know, six and a half. It's a good game. Solid. Good math. >> Buffalo Gold Collection. Or is there I mean, there's so many Buffalo games. >> All right. Well, let's just say Buffalo broadly >> as a franchise, probably eight. I Buffalo Link brings the average way up. Um, yeah, but there's some that are fours and fives. Buffalo Link is the best game is a 10 and Buffalo like Buffalo Gold Collection is, you know, a six or a seven. Buffalo, you know, there's Buffalo Stampede. There's all these different Buffalo games. So, it's really difficult to say because there are so many. But our favorite game is in the Buffalo family. >> There are games one through 10 on Buffalo. Buffalo Links 10 though. >> Firelink six. Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the Firelink. I don't I would say Yeah. six four. >> Yeah. Bakra. Bakra. Bakra is a solid eight and a half. I mean, to me it's a it's a 10. It's a great of table games. It's the best. >> H I mean, it's so fun, but it can be such a disaster. I'm going to go nine. Firecracker. Firecracker gets me every single time. Fire. What's firecracker? You must mean something like >> Ba Zu. >> Ba Zafu, the one with the little sparkle fire game. Yeah, >> that's it's Bazu Xu. >> That is a five. >> That game is just like the pinnacle of what we call perceived progression. So it looks like it's going to hit when really it's just a display of how long it's going to hit. So it's >> how long it's been since it hit. >> How long it's been since it hit. Yeah, exactly. So it doesn't mean anything, but it does get a lot of people who aren't familiar. They're like, "Look at all the lights." That game is I do not like that game. I'm gonna go four. >> Yeah. And he says perceived uh progression, but it's actually perceived persistence. But >> what is the difference? >> Persistence is a persistent state slot machine where as you play it, the the elements that you see on the screen are persistent. They stay until they're hit. [clears throat] >> Um and they use these elements to fool you into thinking that it's it's >> oh that it's progression. So like the one that let's say that I said that lady left a 74 that it must hit by 75. So you know if you walk up to the machine it's at 52 53 54. That's a real persistent feature because at 75 it's going to hit and you're going to get a bonus. But the firecrackers it's like oh they're lit up a little bit. They're lit up all the way. It's perceived that there's some kind of a persistent feature but it's not real. That's still completely random every time you hit the button. It's perceived persistence but for some reason we call it perceived progression. I think progression just makes more sense to people who don't follow gambling. >> Yeah, it just I mean progression just implies there's some type of progression towards getting bigger >> progressing towards something. I think they should actually change it to perceived progression. >> Yeah, it's funny. Other I've heard other people call it perceived progression now. >> Yeah, that's we we made a better name. >> What about Huff and Puff? >> I mean, we've made so many Huff and Puff videos and I I'm on record that I just despise the game now. Uh so I'm going to call Huff and Puff a four. >> Yeah. You know, the whole franchise is probably someplace between three and maybe eight. Like Huff and Even More Puff is it it's a strong game, but it's it's I don't know, maybe seven, maybe three to seven. It's hard. >> Yeah, the the Huff and Puff brand is spectacular. Like they crushed it rivals the Buffalo brand and the Dragon Link brand. So maybe their brand is a nine, but the games and the math behind the games are a five and a half at best. They're fun, too. Six and a half, maybe. >> He was expecting like a number for an answer. >> Sorry, but I don't know. People who know slots will enjoy the answers, I think. >> What about Regal Riches? >> Oh, Regal Riches is a solid nine. It's a great game. It's it's it's there's an experience that you get to play. I mean, I guess they could make it a little fancier and maybe a little bit better music or better graphics, but I mean, for for what it is, it's it's a great game. It, you know, a starting point, there's an ending point. It's fun. It has decent payouts. Um, and it's just been so good to us. >> It it put us on the map. We played an $1,125 Regal Riches and we were chasing a green, I think it was. Uh, and and we were down uh was it 300,000? >> Yeah. >> It doesn't seem like as much now, but >> [laughter] >> Uh we were down like 300,000 and we were just I was having a come aart, you know, cuz it was just taking forever and you just can't quit until you hit it. Uh but yeah, we love that game. I I I wish more places had it and uh it I'd say it's a Yeah, definitely a nine out of 10. >> Yeah, it's up there. It's at fewer places now, which is unfortunate, but uh yeah, eight and a half, something like that. >> About Ultimate X. It's probably it's it's probably the best video poker variant that's ever existed. >> He taught me WBG taught me that game and I just absolutely love it and it's I've had some of my biggest wins ever on that game and it's just so fun. I mean, you're never out of it in Ultimate X. You know, >> there are so many things that are good about it too once you understand it. The variance they have figured out really what you can win a ton and you can get wrecked, but it's great. The household is really really low, so you can play a lot. It It's a great great game. 10 for sure. >> Yeah. What about Pyo? >> Pyo is a game that's a series of pushes punctuated by an occasional loss. So, it's a great drinking game. >> Um, it you can play for a long time. It's slow. It's a good relaxing game. It's kind of fun. Um, you know, as far as table games go, it's probably seven and a half. I mean, I haven't played it so long. I mean, I could barely even tell you. I know there's houseway, pair pair, two pair behind. It's a fun game. Yeah. As far as table games go, I mean, I'd probably I'd probably play that. I'd like that better than three card poker or Ultimate Texas Holdem. And those are all kind of in that category that I'd throw into like the seven range. >> I don't know. I would say lower because we never play it. If we liked it a lot, we would play it. So, I would say maybe a five and a half. >> Yeah. There's something about Piggo that a lot of people don't know is often times most casinos you can bank the game every other hand like where you get to be the house. So, I like that element of it. Like in LA, you can go and actually just be the house, but it's kind of hard because they have corporations that run those games. But even in casinos in Las Vegas, you every other hand the the players can bank the game. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> How do you do that? >> I have. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> We should do that. We should make a video about that. >> We should >> I I Where is that? >> I don't know if like where we normally play allows you to do it, but I mean I've done it at many casinos on the strip. >> H >> I like Pico. It's really fun, but yeah, it's a lot of pushes. >> Like my friend Allan used to say, it's a great, you know, great game. He liked it cuz you you play a lot, you don't lose a lot. You get free drinks and you get raided. And so he would get he would just play hours and hours and hours of Py Gal, not lose very much money and get good drinks and comps. Craps. Uh I mean craps is a perennial favorite. It's I'd say it's probably an eight, eight or nine, eight and a half, something like that. It's a fun It's a fun game. It's weird because because craps is a kind of game where I can go bet 5,000. I mean, it's probably not this way anymore, but I remember when I was first starting to gamble, I could bet $5,000 on a hand of blackjack, no problem. Not not feel anything. But you put $100 on a crap table, just the energy just is so amped up. >> Well, craps is bluff's game, you know? I mean, he's made that famous. I I personally despise craps. Like, I I know if you you know, playing perfect strategy. I guess I should play the don't because for me what happens is I I put I hit a point and then I do a comeat and then I place max odds and I get a few other points and then I roll a seven and I lose it all every single time. Like I do not like craps at all. I give it a two. >> Five maybe. It's a little slow for me and >> and it's hard to film >> and it's hard to film and you lose a lot and it's not my favorite. >> Blackjack 10 point. It's a 20 out of 10. It's It's the best game. Yeah, he loves it. That's I mean, some of our only wins are when we let him drive and blackjack frustrates the hell out of me. Like I said earlier, like it just seems like I always bust and they always make a hand. And you know, it's good sometimes cuz you know, you bet one hand and you get a blackjack or a double down, you win a lot. That's great. But if we play it for a while, almost always I end up starting with a bunch of chips and ending with no chips. Uh but it's it's fun and it's easy and it's everywhere, you know. So it's it's you know, it's probably like a seven, I would say. seven as well. >> You guys have very high ratings for every single one of them. Like I don't think I saw really a single thing under five except from you. You had a couple things that are under five. What would you say is the worst game of all time? A lot of people say three card poker is not that fun. There's not that much variance and you lose a lot. >> Yeah, I would if you're talking about table games, I would say something like like Let It Ride. Like that was a very innovative game when it first came out. Oh, you have some history of Let It Ride. I see. I sat down at a Let It Ride table with my friend Gavin one night and we did not in fact let it ride. >> Yeah. No, I mean it's okay. I know there are people like they still have it at Peppermill and I know there are people who go there just to play it. >> Um and it it's okay. When it first came out it was a fun game cuz it was new. It was one of the new carnival games, but there's just like the other games are just just so much faster and more fun. And >> what about Casino War? >> Yeah. I mean >> I got wrecked on that one time coming out of the Bellagio. I think I had won too many drinks and I sat down and I just lost so much money so fast at that game. Um I don't know what which which is it a bad game for the player like which one of those carnival games has the worst odds you think for the player? I mean probably like well any of those side bet games like let it ride and those games if you play if you play good strategy it's not too bad but it's mostly the side bets like side bets on Bakar rock can be 8 10 12% a house edge >> side bets are generally sucker bets right we never bet the side bets I mean I do but you don't cuz they're sucker >> baths I mean unless there's a reason to >> What would you say are the main things that people get wrong when they go gambling like if you're going to put out a message to the casual viewer. I don't endorse gambling, by the way, at all. But if you are going to do it, what tips or tricks should they have that'll cover like 80% of hopefully what they would have lost? >> I mean, try to understand the strategy of the games you're playing. Like with blackjack, bakarat's easy. You just pick a side. You pick what do you say? What do you say, red or blue? >> And and you don't really have to have there's no decisions. But if you're going to play craps or something like that, bet the odds because that lowers your your the overall edge. Um, if you were going to play slots, make sure that you you you're going to be better off if you play a $51 versus 500 pennies because there's a chance that a dollar uh denomination has a higher uh return to player than a penny version of the same game. But just only gamble recreationally. Don't if you if it's if it's money you need, don't gamble it. >> The biggest mistake I think that okay, what comes to mind to the biggest mistake is uh so many things that I did wrong that you taught me. One like I I very rarely used my player's card, you know, I didn't really see the value or the value of it enough and I didn't I didn't swipe my player's card at the kiosk. I didn't take advantage promotions that you leave a lot of money on the table if you don't uh use your players card and all the promo uh properly. H people who play video poker and do the wrong holds, you know, like they they they hold something that they think is right, you know, they'll hold a you know, they hold an ace king over a pair of sixes, you know, or something on depending on the game. And there's different holds, but uh like I don't like to play Juices Wild because the holds are really really complicated and I and every mistake you make in the holds costs you a lot. Like if you play 10 play Ultimate X bonus poker with a good pay table and you play perfectly, which is almost impossible to do, it's like 99.4% return to player. But most people play so bad that they're probably getting like 94%. Uh, and then also blackjack. The biggest mistake I see is people like kind of playing by instinct rather than the book, you know, like, oh, I don't know. I don't want to hit that because, you know, I think I'm going to bust when, you know, you should hit hit it mathematically. >> Because you're so on the pulse with everything gambling. I'm curious the level of information that you have access to. What have been the biggest exploits that you've come across? the biggest like treasure chest because you knew this little bit of information that ended up taking you really far. >> I mean, me personally, like I understood things like must hit by jackpot. >> So, whenever you're walking through a casino, you're keeping your eyes open for something like that. >> I mean, it's it like now it like a lot of that stuff that ship has sailed just because the information is so ubiquitous that that so many people know about it. It's hard to find those kind of things anymore. Turns out to be worth very very little. But, you know, 1015 years ago, if people if if it wasn't widespread and you were the only person in a region that knew that there was a must hit by $10,000 jackpot, you could find a more profitable situation. But it's a lot of that stuff is like like everything in life. Eventually, the market figures it out and those advantages don't exist anymore. But just like like if you're going to play blackjack, just play no get a basic strategy card or look it up on the internet so you know what you're doing. If you're going to play three card poker, make sure you understand that when you're supposed to bet. >> But for you, when have you ever used this finely tuned knowledge? >> I got one for you that I think you're comfortable telling and it's a phenomenal story. The the uh one that when we were at the uh with our friend Jonathan and and and you're like, "Oh, I was there that night." >> Oh, >> I mean that cuz that one's long since gone. No one's ever going to do it again. Well, there was just like like you're talking about take advantage of promotions like >> that promo that where they got >> Yeah. Like I mean sometimes there'll be there'll be promotions where the casino will just be very generous. Like you can earn x amount of points, but the value of what you're getting for those points is worth more than the cost, the expected cost. Doesn't mean you're not going to lose today, but if you were able to do it thousands and thousands of times, you'll come out ahead. What's that look for? just because you're doing that thing that you do. Like he's the king of not telling anyone anything. It's a it's a it's his this gambler runs so deep even when you tell me >> cuz tell about the freaking thing where you know you got paid for every W2 and how you beat how how they I'm not you but how how it they got beat really bad. >> There's been casinos where they have tax day promotions where they'll give you let's say 15% of a jackpot on um on April 15th, right? they they'll run a promotion. So if you can if you can find a way to create a jackpot that only costs you 5% you're going to have an edge. So things like that have >> So you've done that? >> Oh yeah. >> And so what did you win? >> Money. >> And how how much money did you win? How much did you risk? >> A lot. >> A lot. [laughter] Yeah. A lot. >> A lot. Enough that the CEO remembered it about 10 years later and they laughed about it cuz they got cuz they they did a promo and they didn't think it all the way through. And so these smart people, they see that and they're like, "Well, you're going to give me, you know, you're giving me X dollars for every $1,200 jackpot I get. Okay, I'm going to go play $600 a hand on on video blackjack and every single hand that I win, I'm going to get a I'm going to get a tax form. I'm going to win a h 100red bucks and in an hour I'm going to hit a hundred jackpots >> and it's supposed to cost you $6." You know that your your negative expectation is maybe $6, but every other hand you win a h 100red. So it's not not too hard to make a lot of money that way. >> Have you ever gotten an offer from a casino like, "Hey, can you consult us?" and advise us to make sure we don't make an error like that again. >> I mean, yes, informally, never professionally, but I there have been casinos that have reached out and asked questions like, "Could you take a look at this promotion to see if there's anything that doesn't make sense about it?" And I've done that. >> It's so cool. This guy's going to be the star of the movie. >> No, definitely not. >> Yeah, his character for sure. >> No. Um, >> there are a lot. >> Yeah, it's fun. >> Can't wait for the movie to come out. >> He's also super humble. gets embarrassed when you say nice things about him, but it's definitely the I mean, you say EJ's the brains. Uh WBG's I mean EJ's definitely uh done an incredible job there. I always get back but and then he's works really really hard but these two together I mean you got superrain and a young brain and he's learned a lot from him and they've >> well I mean and you're very talented in front of the you're the he's the best in front of the cameras. >> Yeah. I like to think about you like social media or YouTube what what Vegas mat is kind of like um a recipe and if you're baking a cake for instance like you need all the ingredients you need the salt the sugar the flour and even though the flour may be 90% of it Vegas matt you still need you still need the other ingredients to to to make the product so >> are you either salt or the sugar >> yes I >> certainly not the dairy [laughter] >> but I'm saying is like You need all the ingredients and even though it you may not be 90% of the ingredients, the whole product won't exist without without without all the elements. And they're all equally important because you can't do it without each other. And I think we we just work very well together. >> Yeah. When I when I mention to people, oh yeah, we're filming an episode with like Vegas Matsu and they're like, oh, are you bringing on WBG and like EJ? I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. Like they're going to hopefully come on the the show, spread some wisdom, too. Okay, last question. >> Have you ever found a true edge? Like they say in roulette, when you spin it, maybe if the table's a little crooked, it could be landing on something more often or something to that degree. >> Do you want me to talk about the roulette one or >> Here's the thing. You should do a podcast someday when I don't know when, like, and just have him tell you everything he knows and it would probably be the most viewed podcast in gambling history. So, tell us a roulette story. He's got one on everything. >> I know. I know. I know. I've been involved with with I mean, yes, you can. There's not a g the thing is is there's not a game in the casino that you can't beat. It doesn't matter what the game is under the right circumstances. I mean, that doesn't mean that that exists at every like you can't just walk up to every single table and there's an edge, but there's every single game there's a circumstance where it could where the tables could be turned. >> How so then on with like were you listening earlier asked about the Bakra thing and the guy that claims he has an edge on Bakra and he'll give it away for $20 million. So, like, how could you beat Bakar then? >> Well, first of all, that's not true. That's just he's just saying that he that if I >> it wouldn't be worth 20 million because if you could beat it, you get kicked out before you could win 20 million. So, no one would buy it. >> And I I think I think people who claim to have systems are just they're just charlatans. It's just like it's like it's like people who who claim that they can beat sports, for instance. It's very very difficult because the mark there's so much money and so many smart people betting into those markets that you're going to have an equilibrium price and the people who say that oh I have an edge they're just selling picks to both sides. >> So give us a little nugget. >> Okay. >> Bakra you said there is a circumstance or that can you give us an example of when a BRA game could have been beat? I mean there like there are side bets that that are countable like blackjack that you can that you can that you could be the side bet. >> So like you would count a 12 deck shoe down and then you know that like all the nines are gone and then and then this makes the big tiger more likely or something like that. >> Yeah, like one of the side bets could like when there's no more face cards for instance something could there could be an advantage on one of the like a tie >> or if I'm not saying that that's the actual circumstance but it's things circumstances like >> it's not huge though. God forbid you give a specific. >> No, cuz I I mean I don't know it by wrote >> or also is it something like when some dealers do something wrong and when the card comes out of a shoe if you're sitting at a certain place you could see the whole carding you could see the card or something. >> Well, not on Bakarat but I mean well I guess if you could like if you knew the first card on Bakarat you could you could gain an edge. Like if you knew it was a nine and it was going to the player of course you would bet player. >> Mhm. So okay. So then you said roulette, you kind of your eyes lit up a little bit and is there can you think of an example when roulette was beatable or like that you beat roulette? >> I I know people Yeah, like I know people who have found situations where um things um replicated often enough like you were saying like the table was tilted like they could they they knew that it was going to go around three times and if it goes around three times it's going to land in a quadrant. So they could just bet the quadrant. And >> so they they literally wait to see how fast the spin is. >> Kind of. Yeah. Exactly. >> Interesting. >> Because it's a it's a it's a physical element. It's a physical thing. So if you roll a bowling ball down the alley the exact same way every time, you're going to knock over the same number of pins. I mean, on average, >> I want to like I want to ask him more questions. [laughter] Very rarely does he answer. I think also all of that stuff is so hard and the opportunities are so rare and it's really not what we do. We're just aware of it and it's a fun thing to talk about. I mean, look at how interested you guys have been and I find it fascinating. >> It's not what we do at all. Like we play we go gamble. No casino cares if we come in and play Huff and Puff and Dragon Link. They're they're like, "Welcome to the casino." >> Yeah. The thing is we know about it. We don't do it. We don't actively participate in it. Like I think this is how kind of maybe kind of how all this might have happened is because when I met Matt like he knew that I had some knowledge about these things >> and he was fascinated by it. So we we just had an instant friendship and we would talk about it and just talk about stories and things that maybe we had done before and he wanted to go gambling and things like that. So I think it cemented our our our friendship and our relationship and that's why we hung out together and why we were gambling together. I used to beg him to let me go with him, you [snorts] know, and and he had like, you know, he's the WBG and like I remember saying to him like you're like, "How can I get to be your sidekick?" Because he he always seemed, you know, he's a nice guy and he's fun to hang out with and he and he's a people person. I'm talking about you like you're not here. I know you love that. And and so he would have, you know, these various people that would go with him all the time. And like I always wanted to go more because it was just so fun cuz I mean not that he won every time, but he certainly didn't lose as much as most people that I had met. And I just learned so much about like a game like Harley-Davidson that they don't have anymore. Like that one was something if I remember. We used to play that a lot. >> I mean it was that was just one with an actual progression, right? It was a it was well it was the you would play and the they were there were free game meters and the longer you played the the the higher they would get and they weren't guaranteed to hit but there was a point where the what it would expect you to what you would expect to pay to hit one of the progressives like let's say the minor jackpot was you you like you knew it was within a certain range. So if there were 50 games and you it would it would cost you x amount of dollars to hit it, but you knew that the 50 games would pay more than that, you would play it until you hit it. Now, it doesn't mean you were guaranteed to win that day, but if you did that over and over and over, you were just going to print money. >> Do you remember the first machine that you ever showed me that >> first slot machine? >> For the first slot machine that you know that there was something that I should look for, >> uh, Plants versus Zombies. >> Plants Versus Zombies. Yeah, there was like a there was a Plants Versus Zombies and there was a brain meter and I can't remember. >> I remember that game, >> but if the brain meter was like over a certain amount like we'd be walking through the casino and and we would like walk to like 20 casinos in a day and uh good good cardio and then then we'd see a plants versus zombies and we'd like oh the brain meter and I was like so proud of myself the first time I found something good and we'd come up boom and then win. I they don't have that game anymore though. No, it's it's I mean it probably exists someplace, but like everything those games come >> they go away. >> Yeah. If the games are beatable, they don't >> It's not just that they're beatable. I just think they have have a life cycle. That's like one of the things we talked about Dragon. Like one of the reasons I gave it a high ranking is because it's been around since like 2014 and it's still very very popular. So you I mean you have to respect the fact that a game could be around for 11 years and still be one of the biggest uh games to drive coin in. Have you made most of your money that you've made in your life from gambling? >> Yes. >> From exploits? >> No, just I mean I was a professional poker player for a while. Um >> so it's from professional poker. >> Yeah. And so I was I was a professional poker player and I was involved in poker right before What's so funny? >> I was just looking over at him and he's just smiling like he's like he knows something like Senator Well, you know. So before the poker boom like I was fortunate like just coincidentally I I picked up poker before the poker boom. So when the poker boom happened I was >> in a fortuitous position and I was able to take advantage of it. I got involved in affiliate marketing with with poker. When are you going to write a book WBG? I would love to read that that book when you when you retire. When you >> book you'd get mad at me for everything I said. [laughter] >> We don't talk about that. >> Yeah. So I play poker. I was I played a lot of tournament poker back before people before everybody learned how to play on the internet. So, >> it's just fun to watch him like just even just betting sports, you know, cuz like I'll be like, I like the blue team, you know, or whatever or like, oh, Ohio, you know, and then and then he just won't casually like make a bet, you know, even if like we're at a game, you know, and he's like, well, let me take a look, you know, and he looks at like 17 books and sees what's going on. And it's just like a level of intelligence and patience that I couldn't do if someone paid me all the money in the world, you know, but then he'll go and he'll bet on the Eagles anyway. I think it's just a >> Yeah. disaster. [laughter] >> Go Birds. I think it's just a matter of just kind of looking at life in terms of EV, right? If is Okay, sure. The the gas across the street might be 1 cent less. So, I'm going to get 10 gallons. Is it worth 10 cents to cross the street? Probably not. Is it worth it to make a phone call to save $150 on on your insurance? Probably, right? It takes you 10 minutes, right? It's hard to find opportunities that are worth $900 an hour. So, you just try and think in terms of EV and apply it to everything else. >> There's so much, let me tell you, it's very WBG is a wealth of information if you can get it out of him. He knows he knows everything about gambling. I think I think I'd like to create like a gamblers trivia uh thing sometime and have all these people that think they know and then like like Jeopardy and then >> that would be good. >> I would back WBG to be the guy that ends up, you know, on the show for like a 100 days straight. >> I I wouldn't win, but I tell you what, I've been because because of my gambling history, career, whatever you want to call it, I've been been fortunate to meet some of the most brilliant minds in gambling. So, I've I've tried to learn from them. >> I have a couple trivia questions, but then we have to wrap. Got it. Okay. Cuz I just >> It was not a 10-hour podcast. >> I just I just wanted to see cuz that that was an interesting prompt. What specific rule change in US blackjack caused the house edge to increase by4% without changing payouts or debt count? >> Like you changing payouts meaning that they're not going to give you like 49. >> I guess adding more decks would be would would be the only way you could do it without changing >> well or like not hitting on soft 17 or >> Well, that's a rule. That's a rule change. >> What specific rule change without changing payouts? Meaning they didn't >> they change a rule but they didn't change the payout. It was So it sounds like a what was the rule that that dramatically increased the casino edge? >> Was a rule change? >> It was a rule change that didn't change the payouts like not like three to two versus >> Okay. Yeah. So yeah, it could be hitting on soft 17. >> That's right. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I knew that one. >> Who got that? >> Me. [laughter] >> All right. What's All right. Well, one more. What is the only common casino game where the house edge can be mathematically reversed in favor of the player without card counting or whole carding? >> Because you said slots, but >> well, I mean, >> oh no, the only one I can think of is ultimate text is hold if everybody sees if every player sees the hand. But >> well, he's that's whole carding. >> Is that what that is? >> Whole carding is when you see that the dealer makes a mistake and you see their card. >> Yeah, right. >> Yeah, I know. You know what it is, but not everybody does. I mean, slots, that's the thing with with with a a game that has a variable state slot machine, the odds can change. It can go from the house edge to a player edge. >> It's craps. Pass line and don't pass line. The blended edge approaches zero. It says no memory, no counting, no exploit required. Well, I guess what you're saying is if you if you bet if you bet max odds, >> but it doesn't go it doesn't go into the player's favor like like your your odds are even money. So, there's no edge. It's 50/50, but you still have to have a pass line or a don't pass line bet where they do have an edge of x%. >> Yeah. So, your element your element of risk on on craps might go from 1.0 0 whatever 1.3 to.3 or something like that depending on >> how but he said it goes actually into the player's favor. I just don't know how you could create that situation. I I guess the only thing I what he must be saying is that if you have if you are betting on um a number like if you're betting on the don't pass with odds once the point is established >> once it's established then then you've got an edge because the seven is the most likely number to come up. >> Yeah. Like that's the that that that's probably the scenario that he's describing. Although the overall edge on the game is still is still in the house's favor. Which Las Vegas casino slot machine malfunctioned in the 1990s? It led to a court case that changed how casinos handle obvious errors versus binding wins. >> Must have been mega bucks. >> Something like that. Yeah, it has. >> Lucky Lucy. >> Do you remember that one? >> No. >> WBG. You want one more? >> Sure. Fire one more in there. >> In Bakarat, why does the banker bet still have a lower house edge even though the casino takes a 5% commission? And what would the edge be without the commission? >> Well, what would the the house edge be? Or would the player edge be? If you don't pay the commission, you'd be printing money by betting banker. But the the uh it's just the rules the the the rules for hitting favor the the banker. >> It says the banker house edge with a 5% commission is 1.06. Banker wins more because it acts second like the dealer in blackjack, which I actually felt like I heard before. >> Mhm. It's it I mean you're implying that there's position involved and it doesn't matter who the order like because you can turn over the cards either way. It's it's it's I think what they're saying is the what the player what the banker does uh is determined sometimes by what the cards what card the the player draws. Like there's times when if the player draws an eight, the dealer doesn't draw. And if if the player draws a a three, the the the banker wouldn't draw. >> The odds are better for banker because of the rules. The odds are better for banker, but with the commission, it's 1.0. What' you say? 038 or whatever. And it's slightly less for the player. So, the banker is the better bet even with the commission. And the reason that we bet banker all the time is because the banker does win more of the time. Like if you played a million hands, there's going to be more banker hands than player hands be there's going to be three results. Banker, player, and tie. And then you could tell them what the skew is, but it's more more wins are going to be banker. And videos do better when you win. So we bet banker. And also because it's mathematically a better bet. And it and so we we bet banker every time. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you bet if you bet banker all year, you're going to and you bet millions of dollars, you're going to >> lose slightly less money, but you know, thousands of dollars less. >> But also, like Matt was saying, the result of that actual hand you is for the banker more often because of the commission, right? Because if it's >> and a lot of people don't like paying commission, so more people bet player, which is just another example of uneducated gambling, you know, because they think, "Oh, I'm going to bet player cuz I don't have to pay commission and it's a worse bet." >> I asked Chad for the hardest trivia questions that I could come up with. >> Wow. >> And that's what it came up with. >> That's cool. >> I'm curious, where are you guys headed to after this? >> Today, >> we are I don't know to beside Elcortez. >> We're going to El Cortez today. And what are you guys going to gamble? >> Oh, just what? See if they have any new slot machines and play some bakra and have fun. That's >> how much how much coin in are you going to are you going to risk >> today? Probably 50 60,000 coin in I would say. I mean, there's there's a couple places uh in Vegas that we film at and Elcortez is one of them, and we have a great relationship there. And and I mean, a typical day, we're going to get a little bit of a later start cuz we're here a long time uh than we normally do, but normally around two or so, we we meet, go to the Starbucks, get some coffee or iced tea or ginger and turmeric shots, a lot of offerings, sometimes some egg bites. Uh, and then we uh will sit around and we'll say like, "What do you want to do? What do you want to play today?" Um, and then they come up and say, "Hey, there's a new machine or this that and the other thing." And then we have a little 15 minutes, take pictures with people, hand out lucky stickers. Just, you know, say hello to who's there. And get in the zone and then we go take a what I call a profile pick. What do you call it? >> It's a thumbnail. >> A thumbnail. [laughter] And uh and they take a they take a thumbnail. They take a thumbnail and then we uh sit down and assume our positions start pushing buttons and WBG starts telling dumb jokes and me and EJ bust each other's balls and we uh talk about whatever's going on in the town and you know what like I went like if we go and see the Wizard of Oz you know which I said earlier I thought was awesome we talk about that or I talk about a TV show that we're watching you know that's really really good um and we just talk about anything and everything it's like a 45minute session It's four friends sitting around talking about life. Really? And and it just happens to take place in a casino. >> Yeah. And then uh that will depending if we make one video or two, we'll be there for anywhere between 2 and 1 half to 5 hours. And then we'll either go home uh or go do something with our friends, which generally will involve more gambling and or going to dinner. And then EJ will go home and edit. And then that is probably what the rest of today looks like. Yeah. Lather, rinse, repeat. >> Well, thank you guys so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you. Graham, do you have any Do you have any parting words? >> Graham says, "Like and subscribe." Guys, please like and subscribe. Also, obviously, all of your information will be left down below. Thank you guys for coming on. >> Thank you for having us. >> Best of luck at the casino. Guys, if you want the full unedited raw version of this podcast, if you like it raw, subscribe to the members because you can see the full thing. So, >> all that stuff that we talked about, >> all the stuff that we talked about how you can get an edge in the casino. Just kidding. We didn't talk about that. But thank you guys so much for watching. >> Appreciate it. Get the book. [laughter] >> See you guys. Thanks a lot. Good to be back.