Video summary
The podcast explores why sadness often masks anger, illustrating this dynamic through a story about a mother's youngest daughter who cries in the bathroom when her older sister is present. The younger girl explains that she feigns sadness because it elicits care from others, whereas expressing anger would result in physical punishment or abandonment by those around her. This phenomenon highlights how people transmute antisocial emotions like rage into pro-social ones to avoid conflict and maintain connection. When individuals feel helpless or out of control due to their own emotional volatility, they may escalate their anger further because the fear of being abandoned fuels a cycle where feeling unsafe leads to more aggressive behavior as a defense mechanism against perceived helplessness. The discussion shifts toward redefining emotions not as static states but as fluid energy that can be "kinked" into different expressions depending on how one processes them. Raw, unaware anger is described similarly to being ruled by external winds rather than transcending or alchemizing these feelings; however, when managed correctly, this same emotional energy becomes a catalyst for action and the establishment of boundaries. Instead of suppressing or misdirecting this force through passive aggression or screaming, individuals can recognize their anger as a signal that something important is not being respected. This perspective transforms anger from a destructive impulse into a constructive tool for asserting personal values and protecting one's well-being without losing emotional connection to others. A significant portion of the conversation focuses on distinguishing between healthy boundaries and power struggles, clarifying that true boundaries involve stating what *one* will do rather than dictating how another person must behave. The speaker provides clear examples: a boundary is setting a consequence for oneself if an interaction becomes toxic (e.g., "If you yell at me, I will leave the room"), whereas telling someone else they are not allowed to feel or act in certain ways creates fear and shame within the relationship. When boundaries are enforced with love rather than harshness, they demonstrate that one no longer views others as oppressors but instead affirms their own capacity for self-care. This approach opens the heart because it removes the feeling of oppression, allowing relationships to flourish even when disagreements arise or responses differ from expectations. The transcript also addresses common pitfalls in boundary enforcement, such as reacting too harshly out of fear that one will fail to maintain them consistently. When people worry about losing connection if they hold a line, they may swing between being overly rigid and completely pliable, both of which undermine the purpose of setting limits. Over time, however, effective boundaries naturally soften as individuals realize they control their own destiny and do not need external validation or fear-based tactics to feel safe. The speaker illustrates this evolution with an example regarding a father struggling with alcoholism; initially, the boundary was strict about avoiding him during drinking episodes, but it eventually evolved into focusing on how he treated the child rather than just his state of intoxication. As self-worth grows and the need for external control diminishes, boundaries become more open-hearted and less necessary as rigid rules. Throughout the dialogue, there is a recurring theme that shame often underlies both poor boundary setting and the suppression of anger into sadness or passive aggression. Whether it is a child hiding rage to avoid hitting by an older sibling or an adult fearing abandonment if they assert themselves, the root cause frequently traces back to deep-seated fears rather than genuine malice or lack of love. By recognizing these underlying emotions and choosing to act with agency instead of reacting from fear, individuals can break cycles of dysfunction that perpetuate across generations. The ultimate goal presented is not merely managing anger but alchemizing it into a force for positive change, ensuring that emotional energy serves as a guide toward integrity rather than a source of internal or external chaos.
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Can you tell that story about your one
of your daughters was crying in the
bathroom and you asked if she was pissed
off.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
>> I This is Yeah. This blew my head off
and I think I I really want you to tell
it.
>> Yeah. So, my my So, it's my youngest
daughter. She's in the bathroom. She's
crying. I go in to hang out with her and
at some point I'm like, "I don't think
you're sad. I think you're pissed." And
she goes, "I am." I was like, "Well, how
often when you're sad are you really
pissed?" She's like,
about half the time she's she's like
nine.
[snorts] And I was like, "Well, why what
makes you why why don't you get why
don't you just be pissed?" And she said,
"Because if if my Esme, the older
daughter, if I get pissed, she just hits
me. But if I get sad, she does what I
want her to do."
Bro,
I don't think I've I don't think I've
ever heard a better
explanation of why people transmute
anger into sadness. They don't get mad,
they get sad. They turn this displeasure
outward to displeasure inward because
sadness is pro-social and it causes
people to come and take care of you.
Whereas anger is antisocial and it
causes people to run away.
>> Yeah.
>> [ __ ] brilliant. which is strange
because I think like there's I'm sure a
lot of your audience they are or they
deal with somebody who is who is um
angry has like a temper on them. And one
of the things that I've noticed is that
when somebody has that temper and then
somebody
gets scared of the anger then the anger
usually grows.
>> Mhm. Because what's happening there is
the person who's angry is like I'm out
of control. I don't feel safe. I I I I I
feel helpless and I don't want to feel
helpless. And so I'm getting angry and
then they're getting abandoned
like oh and then they get even more
angry because they feel even more
helpless.
>> I think there's a difference as well. I
had this I was telling about this
conversation I had with Charlie
Hoopertut and he's talking about people
that move from victimhood status to act
action agency status to emotionally in
tune status
>> and it looks like you're actually going
backward because previously you were
also kind of ruled by your emotions but
not through transcending and including
and alchemizing them but through them
just being the winds of the day that
sort of blew you around without you
being able to step into
And I think maybe sort of raw
unaware anger is not too dissimilar to
that. Yeah.
>> You know, somebody who's raging and
breaking things and unable to sort of
hold themselves together.
>> Uh I'm interested in that that arc
between like
instinctual anger and intuition like
intuitive anger perhaps. Maybe that's
the wrong terminology.
>> Yeah. And so the way I think about it is
like we have these emotion. Let's call
it like a tube of of an energy running
through us. And we'll call this one
anger. And then if you kind of kink it
one way, it's nice dress. Or [laughter]
if you kink it another way, it's I'm
going to be late and and I'm going to be
passive aggressive. You kink it another
way, it's yelling, it's screaming. But
in any of the cases there's shame around
the anger
>> instead of what the anger actually it is
when you when it starts moving fluidly
in your system is it's a cause for
action and a cause for boundaries.
>> So when I notice that I'm angry now I'm
like oh I'm angry. I'm like oh there's a
boundary that needs to be drawn.
>> I know there's a boundary that needs to
be drawn somewhere. There's some way in
which I am there's something I care
about that I'm not standing for and I
need to stand for it.
>> Yeah. I let's talk about boundaries. um
pop psychology favorite word of the
world. People weaponizing it from their
coup's counseling to their you've
crossed a this is me holding a boundary.
No, it's not. It's you being an [ __ ]
Like
>> um
>> what do good, bad boundaries look like?
How do slippery, malleable, pliable
boundaries turn into anger? Give me the
give me the equation there.
>> Yeah. [snorts] So, uh, boundaries,
the the the two easy ones to say for
boundaries is the first one is that
you're not ever telling somebody else
what they're supposed to do. That's a
power struggle. It's not a boundary.
It's you telling them what you're going
to do.
>> Okay. Can you give me an example of the
former and the latter?
>> Yeah. Uh, I'm going to draw what I would
say is a a power struggle boundary, not
a real boundary, would be every time you
get angry, I'm going to punch you in the
face. or every time you get angry uh you
need to leave the house. Every time you
get angry you need to uh apologize to
me. You need to stop yelling. That's
that. Whereas the other one is every
time you get angry I'm going to leave
the house. Every time you get angry I'm
going to ask you to stop yelling at me
and if you don't I'm going to leave the
house and I'm going to come back in 20
minutes and then we can continue the
conversation and unless you yell at me
again and then I'm going to do the same
thing. So one is this is what I'm going
to do. I'm in I'm I'm the one that gets
to choose for me. I'm not choosing for
you. So that would be one really good
thing about a boundary. If you're doing
anything where you're telling somebody
else what they have to do, it's not a
boundary.
>> It's it's a power struggle and it and it
just shows that you're in fear and
shame. You're basically passing fear and
shame back and forth in the
relationship. The second one is, and
this is the one that will bend people's
minds when they try it, is
whatever the boundary is, it it makes it
that I'm more capable of loving you, no
matter what your response.
So, opens my heart to you. A great
boundary opens my heart to you because
it's very, very hard for us to love
anything that we think oppresses us.
So if I draw a boundary that opens my
heart, it means that I no longer see you
as the oppressor.
>> It's oh, I have the capacity to do what
I need to do here and take care of
myself, which means that you you can't
oppress me.
>> Mhm.
>> So that's how I that's how I I that's
how I teach how to draw boundaries.
>> Mhm. Mhm. And what happens when you
don't enforce the boundaries?
Well, there's nothing to enforce because
it's just what you're doing.
>> Okay. Well, what what happens if you
don't do what your boundary would
suggest that you're supposed to do or
don't say that that's going to happen?
What happens when they're too pliable?
Like, what's the Yeah. So, that's that's
a Okay. So, that's a cool thing about
boundaries. So, what happens is if
somebody is scared that they're not
going to maintain their boundary, what
typically they'll do is they'll either
do it really really harsh. They'll be
like, "This is the I'm going to leave
you every single time. you yell at me,
I'm good. I'm out of the door. They'll
do something like that, which
unfortunately makes it harder for the
person who's hearing the boundary to
hear the boundary and more of a
resistance going on. So, you're saying,
"Oh, I'm scared. I'm going to I'm going
to I'm going to flake and therefore I
have to be really really strong about
this."
>> And then um and so so that's
so that's typically what's happening.
The reason that people are usually
scared of or
I'm freezing. Okay.
>> So, I'm going to put a hoodie on. Keep
going.
>> Um, [snorts]
but whereas people are are but if the if
you really look at what the fear is
underneath it, the fear is that I'm
going to lose connection.
>> The reason that I'm not going to draw
the boundary is because I think that you
won't love me if I if I hold the
boundary.
>> Mhm. Mhm.
>> And so that's usually why people are
scared of of of
that they're or they don't aren't
consistent with the boundary. The other
thing that happens is that the boundary
will change over time. naturally if
you're doing them right because
once you realize that you're not
oppressed you don't need the same kind
of boundaries. So like if I think about
my father who was an alcoholic my first
boundary with him was like I'm not going
to be around you if you are drinking.
>> Mhm.
>> And then it was I'm not going to be
around you if you're drunk or hung over.
>> And then it was oh I'm not going to be
around you if you treat me like this
this or this. whether you're drunk or
hung over or not. And I [clears throat]
can be around you if you're drunk or
hung over, but if you treat me like
this, I'm I'm out.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> So the So once you start learning that,
oh, I actually am the one I get to
control my own destiny.
I get to control whether I'm cared for.
I get to control if I'm if I'm loving
myself,
>> then then all of a sudden the boundaries
become less necessary or they become
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