Teddy and Alice Historical Talk #2 - The Roosevelt Family

Well, thank you for being here, everybody, for the second in our historical chat series about our film production of Teddy and Alice. I'm very happy to be here. I know everybody here in the room knows me, but in case there's anybody online who doesn't, I'm Dr. William Hanson. I am the outreach coordinator and public historian at our Theodore Roosevelt Center here at ASU, and I'm serving as a historical consultant, a sort of a dramaturgist for this production, helping to interpret the the people in the show and the time in which they live. Uh in our first of this series, we talked about the two title characters, Teddy and Alice. Today, we're going to talk about the rest of the Roosevelt family and their time in the lighthouse and how they interacted with one another. And so, the first person that we need to talk about is Roosevelt's wife, Edith Kermit Carow Roosevelt. Um now, they had known each other as children, Edith and TR. Um Edith was actually pretty much best friends with his sister, but she was also very close with TR. In fact, as teenagers, everyone expected that they would end up married. They had something of a falling out just before TR goes to Harvard, which results in him marrying Alice Hathaway Lee, but following her death, he will rekindle his love with him or Edith, and they will remain married the rest of their lives once they marry in 1886. So, what was Edith like? Edith was a very reserved, very self-disciplined person. We got somebody that needs to be let in, maybe. Uh very reserved, very self-disciplined to the point that some people called her cold or aloof, even. Um but, that was pretty far from the case. She was in fact a very warm and loving person. She just did not necessarily express it the way everyone else did. Are we good, sir? All right, fantastic. Um Now, it's it's lucky that we know anything about Edith at all because she was a deeply, deeply private person. Um she in fact burned most of her correspondence toward the end of her life. Luckily, some of it that was saved by others does survive as well as a handful of diaries. Um but she controlled the public's access to her and to the children uh when they were in the White House very, very tightly. She arranged for official portraits and things like that to to curb some of the paparazzi, so on and so forth. Um she really wanted to have a tight grip on the home life as well as the White House itself. Uh if Roosevelt is the first modern president, as he sometimes is called, Edith is the first modern first lady for sure. Um she hired the first social secretary uh for the first lady to arrange uh parties and and the gatherings and and other social goings-on at the White House. Uh she will oversee a pretty extensive renovations of the White House in 1902, which is referenced sort of in the opening number of this show when they're talking about to make it uh a house and make it a better, more lively place. Uh that's something that did actually happen. Um And Edith is able to do all this because she's very composed, very collected, very pragmatic in many ways, the opposite of her husband, uh much less impulsive. Uh and she's not afraid to correct people, to tell them when she thinks they're wrong, to tell them why she thinks that they're wrong. She's very forward, very direct, very blunt in her her dealings with people. Um but again, this is not to say she's unkind. She just knows what she believes and communicates it. Um She is a trusted advisor to to TR, and in particular, he believes her to be a better judge of character uh than than he is. Uh and so when they're in the White House, every morning for about an hour, they will walk alone together uh and talk politics, talk business, and he will get her advice on on the things that are going on. Um And so, it's pretty amazing, right? This is a woman who can organize her bustling house of six kids, include or seven if you include what she called her oldest and worst-behaved child, her husband. Um and she can organize the White House, and she can organize Sagamore Hill, which is a working farm. And she is a a very a very devoted uh person to her family, running all these things. And she's really what TR needs, right? She's sort of a rock, a steady presence throughout these adventures of his life. Um She's known for a love of classic literature and poetry. She is always taking comfort in reading her favorite uh works of literature. She will read Shakespeare and other literature to the children. They will They will be raised on on Shakespeare, um and they will take turns reading character reading parts when they do it. And the kids always take great delight when it's her turn to read a villain in a Shakespeare play. Um And so, uh one of my favorite examples, too, of sort of the kind of a person she is that uh exemplifies the way she communicates her sort of dry sense of humor, her pragmatism. Um This is something that Roosevelt himself refers to as his idiot's spree with the windmill. Uh one day at Sagamore Hill at their country estate, he's attempting to fix a windmill, and he gets a huge gash on his forehead from one of the blades. And so, he goes into the house to to try to clean himself up. And the moment he comes in the front door, uh you know, he's he's bleeding all over the place, and Edith says to him, "Theodore, darling, I do wish you'd do your bleeding in the bathroom. You're spoiling every rug in the house." Um so, I think that really sort of helps to sum up uh uh their share relationship in a way and the kind of person she was. Uh from there, let's move on to uh their eldest son, uh Theodore "Ted" Roosevelt Jr. or technically the third, but he went by Jr. Um Now, Ted is very much his father's son. They're similar in many, many ways in their personality and the things that they do. Ted will, as he grows up, you know, be engaged in hunting and riding and adventuring. He will become a soldier. He's similar in many ways, but he very much feels the weight of being his father's son. His His father is going to pressure him very, very hard to do well in school, to to be, you know, good at athletics, to do all the things that he does 110% to the point that Ted will actually have nervous breakdowns, essentially, and anxiety attacks over this. It gets so serious that one of the family physician, Dr. Alexander Lambert, will straight-up tell TR not to pressure his son so hard anymore because it's it's hurting him. And TR will say in a letter, he'll say, I paraphrase him, but he'll say, I'm I'm not going to pressure him so hard ever again. I'm going to to back off. And more or less, he is able to do that. Um But again, personality-wise, Ted is not so different from his father. He's very friendly, gregarious, gregarious, affable, has a great love of life, a great zeal for life and for everything he does. Um His relationships with his siblings, he is closest to Alice, them being the two eldest children. They They are very close to one another. Ted will actually refer to them as constant companions in his book about his life. Um And they will stay close politically as well as they as they grow up and sort of enter the political arena in their own right in their father. And so I love that picture of them there as adults, just having a laugh together, enjoying each other's company. Now, this does mean that the two of them sometimes are going to gang up on on the younger kids, in particular the next sibling Kermit who we'll talk about in a moment. But their relationship was very good and very close their their whole life. And I think Ted and Alice get along in particular because they do have a a great sense of humor that they share. So let's talk then about Kermit. The next brother, Kermit, the next sibling Kermit is very different personality-wise from Ted, from Alice, and from his father. He, as described by his brother Ted, was a solemn little boy, not talkative. With the exception that when their father was reading to them, he would ask so many questions and ask why so many times that eventually his father has to tell him he's going to have to write down his questions on a piece of paper rather than asking because they're never going to get through with their reading because he is so inquisitive. So he certainly does share a sense of curiosity. He's got very very broad interests. Again, kind of like his father, he's interested in natural science, he's interested in reading and writing, in languages, in hunting, in religion, in as many things as you can imagine. Languages in particular, as he grows he will he will master eight or nine languages that he can read at very least. He's a very very skilled in languages. Um As far as his relationship with his siblings, he's closest to his sister Ethel who is coming next to talk about. The sort of middle kids become the closest. And again, Ted, their brother, says that they would beat one another or stand up for one another with equal fervor. So they have, you know, a relationship that can kind of go back and forth, but it's very very close. And so they will sort of band together against the the two eldest and two youngest of their of their siblings. And in particular, they're known to Kermit and Ethel will be known to bully Archie, the the nice sibling quite a bit at least in the way that siblings sometimes do. And he does get along with Alice as well. They will go out playing and exploring. One time they actually get lost in a swamp to the point that they're desperate. They don't even know if they're going to get home. They're so lost and finally they find their way and probably they don't know where they're very far from home in reality. But he and Alice enjoy sort of exploring out near their home together. Um And again, he will he will become sort of one of the great adventurers of the family later in life. He will go to Africa and South America with TR. He will take photographs actually in Africa that are really fantastic. He learns many languages. He will fight in both World Wars and in fact all four of Roosevelt's sons will fight in in the naval wars. Quentin is only able to fight in one because he is killed in action in World War I. But they will all serve. And Ethel will serve in the Red Cross which we'll talk about in a moment. Alice sort of served at home in her political way. They all felt a great duty to serve their country in one way or another. So, let's talk then next about Ethel Roosevelt Derby for married either. She will marry a surgeon named Dick Derby later in life. Ethel is known as very pragmatic and compassionate and many ways she is her mother's daughter. She is very very similar to her mother Edith. And she's known to be pretty well behaved except when she's around Kermit and the two of them tend to get into trouble, her and her brother Kermit. And especially again when they're bullying Archie. Ethel is the kind of person who tends to take charge of things. She is again, very sort of pragmatic, problem-solving kind of person even as a child. Um she's often referred to by scholars today as the assistant mother to Edith. Um she will even like help delegate tasks there in the lighthouse. Um and sort of speak with the servants and things to get things done. And uh of course, she will also tend to take care of the brothers and uh she can the two littlest boys who you see in this picture later here. Um TR has drawn this letter drawn this picture in this letter to Ethel herself. So, this is a caricature of Ethel being sent to her where she has got Archie and Quentin uh in a her grasp there. And TR has written, "Ethel administers necessary discipline to Archie and Quentin." So, uh you know, the it's funny because in the script uh there's a reference that um uh when Alice leaves the lighthouse, the uh they say, "One less skirt to boss." is the boys say. But actually, Alice very rarely bossed the other brothers around. She tended to be the one sort of leading the eggs. But Ethel, the brothers saw as very bossy. Uh She and she she did you know, when when her mother wanted something done or when she saw something that was wrong, she tended to take action herself because she felt it was the right thing to do. Um Like her mother, she's fairly private. She doesn't lead as public a life, but she does later lead a life very much of public service. She will spend decades volunteering with the Red Cross. She will do work with uh the Episcopal Church in Oyster Bay, New York where she's from, Christ Church. Um with the county nursing service there. Um she will do work with housing discrimination issues in Oyster Bay. Um and she is the one who leads the charge to have Sagamore Hill, the family home, made into a national historic site as well as to found the uh the Audubon Society Theodore Roosevelt Nature Center there in Oyster Bay. So, to her, this type of public service becomes really important. and you can sort of see that um in even in her childhood how she feels it's important to to solve these problems to do good work. Um Another sort of reference in that same song there toward the end of the show that I referenced they talk about that Ethel says something to the effect of she can't wait to get Alice's room. That did in fact happen when Alice moved out of the White House when she got married Ethel did move into her bedroom room with a better view. So I thought that was interesting. One more thing I thought was kind of interesting it's kind of on the side but Tad in his book describes Ethel as despite being very pragmatic and serious sometimes she was the most destructive of the toys that the family had and in particular she liked to poke and beat things up with a button hook. There was a doll they got the kids got one year for Christmas that they really didn't like and she poked out its eyes with a button hook. So that's sort of maybe that's how she worked out her frustration could be called and pragmatic the rest of the time I'm not sure but I thought that was an interesting little description. Let's talk next about Archie the next youngest. So like Kermit Archie is a little more on the subdued side as far as his personality is concerned. He's a little more quiet but he's considered very warm and loving. His father will write this about him a lot but he's also very cunning and sort of mischievous. TR will refer to him as a cunning little goose once in his letter about him as a child. And he's sort of one of the leaders of what is called the White House Gang which we'll talk about even more with the next brother the final finalist the final one Quentin. The White House Gang was a group of children who would get into sort of pranks and antics there at the White House. We'll talk about that more in a moment but he's one of these leaders who sort of gets into mischief with not only TR's kid, but other kids of prominent people there at the White House. Um, Archie in particular is a great lover of ponies and his pony Algonquin, who you see here, uh, is basically his best friend other than his his siblings. Um, literally like a brother. Uh, one of one of TR's letters talks about, uh, Algonquin would no more neglect him than any of the brothers or sisters. So, or Quentin would no more, uh, neglect Algonquin. Yeah. At any rate, um, he's closest to his youngest brother Quentin. Um, and in particular, he and Quentin really enjoy roughhousing. These are kids who like to roughhouse a lot um, with their father. They will play bear, he calls it. So, literally just grasping each other. They all TR will use the word grappling as well to just sort of describe them wrestling on the ground with great fervor. Uh, I may have told this story before or at least I've told it to some of you individually. Um, but there's a famous moment where, um, Quentin, uh, comes to play and and I think Archie, I can't remember if Archie's there also, but at any rate, um, they all want to play with TR and every day at 4:00 at the White House, he would shut down whatever meeting he was doing if he was in one and play with boys and play bear and wrestle with them. Um, and one time he gets himself so messed up that he's got to go change his shirt and he's late for a state dinner because it's so important for him to play with the kids uh, and to roughhouse with them when they they want to. Um, later in life again, Archie will, uh, become a soldier. He will serve in both World Wars. He's actually the only person to, uh, receive 100% disability for the same wound in both World Wars. Uh, he will have his kneecap shattered in both World Wars. After the first one, he volunteers again in World War II goes back, same thing happens, but um, and he is decorated with multiple other medals as well, as are are all of the Roosevelt children. So, that's uh that's pretty impressive. He will also sort of devote himself to political causes, in particular to those to root out uh communism as he and his allies see it. And finally, we come to the littlest Quentin, um who has a little bit of a sad story, but as he's uh a boy, he's got some some great funs. Um, Quentin is known to be extremely talkative, perhaps the most talkative of all Roosevelt children. And he also might say odd things from time to time, non sequiturs that don't seem to make any sense in the conversation. Um, Ted described this as him having an original turn of mind. Uh and so, often times if he would start talking at dinner if there were guests around, they would tell him to keep quiet rather rather than to speak. Um He is very mischievous to the point of disobedience more than you might expect of a Roosevelt child. Um, his mother, Edith, well, once referred to him as a fine bad little boy. Um, he is extremely disobedient. Um, and again, he's the leader of this White House gang they call it. So, this is Quentin, this is Archie, this is Taft's son, Charlie Taft, uh four or five other boys uh that are that are sons of people who work at the White House. Um, and they will get into antics like carving a baseball diamond into the White House lawn. Uh they will uh spit spitballs at uh the presidential portraits, in particular Andrew Jackson, uh that are in the hallways in the White House. Um In one famous incident, uh Archie is sick, uh I think with the measles or mumps, maybe. I can't remember now for sure. Um, but anyway, to cheer him up, Quentin and a White House footman will bring Algonquin the pony up the White House elevator to Archie's bedroom to cheer him up. Um They also love love love to throw snowballs, the White House gang, and they will throw snowballs with light bulbs inside them to make nice loud popping noises and send the Secret Service police running. Uh And in one incident, instead of throwing a snowball, they rolled, literally, a snowball about the size of like a snowman's body on the roof of the White House and rolled it off onto a policeman who was standing just beneath to the point that it dents his helmet and nearly breaks his neck. Um uh President Roosevelt will find that uh that particular policeman was in fact overdue for a promotion. But uh so that they really got into some antics. Um Quentin is also very mechanically minded. Uh he enjoys puzzles, he enjoys bicycles, and eventually airplanes. Um he will uh uh go to military training camp. He will become a pilot. Sadly, he is actually shot down in his first combat mission over France uh by by German combatants. Um but his his youth was a very rambunctious and happy one, and he enjoyed leading uh the mischief at the White House, uh you know, basically, after Alice, it's Quentin who is the one who is the most mischievous at the White House, except again, maybe T.R. himself. But uh the only person there to tell him to behave is Edith, uh and she does her best. So, we've got just a few more people to talk about other than uh Edith mother and the children, um because they're featured here in the show. I did want to talk about Eleanor Roosevelt. Um now, in her youth and her childhood, Eleanor is going to suffer a number of tragedies. Her mother is going to die from diphtheria. Her uh little brother will die of disease, as well. Her father is actually Theodore Roosevelt's brother. She is T.R.'s niece. Um Uh Elliott Roosevelt will unfortunately die essentially as a result of alcoholism. He will jump or fall from a window and die from a seizure the next day. So, Eleanor is experiencing a lot of tragedy. Um but during this time she is getting a lot of stability from TR and his family. Uh TR will dote on Eleanor. She will be included almost as if she was one of the kids herself. He's going to teach her to swim. She's going to go on hikes. She's going to be part of pillow fights and story time. All kinds of things like that to give her some family and stability um until uh Elliott, uh her father, dies, at which time she goes to live with her grandmother and it sort of distances her from the the other Roosevelts. Um She is a very shy and insecure little girl. Um she's not considered conventionally attractive and but that combined with the fact that she's so serious, her mother will actually call her Granny as a a sort of mean nickname. So, that sort of contributes to her personality. But uh she will eventually go to boarding school in England, actually, and that will uh she will come back with that with a new found confidence. Uh that's in from 1899 to 1902. So, uh when this show is set, she's sort of coming into her her own and sort of becoming more confident in herself. She sort of picks up this sense of social justice that she will keep throughout her life during this time. Um So, because her father is gone, TR will actually be the one to give her a away to Franklin at their wedding. Um again, uh probably interesting to note at this point in case you didn't know or hadn't figured out, Franklin and Eleanor both already had the last name Roosevelt when they were married because they were fifth Well, I don't know if they they were fifth cousins. TR and Franklin were fifth cousins. I don't know if I know enough about how the math works out. But, they were just cousins anyway. Um supposedly at the wedding TR slapped Franklin on the back and said, "It's good to keep the name in the family." Uh huh. So, um but TR will be the one to give her away at their wedding. Um and she uh comes to deeply regret this because TR will sort of suck all the oxygen out of the room. The focus will all be on him and not on her. Um but, despite that they have a a very a very warm and and good relationship. They they loved each other a lot. And Eleanor got along with the Oyster Bay Roosevelts very well. Uh her relationship with Alice, um they again they played together as children at Sagamore Hill. And um as as teenagers they are in confidence. They are close in age. Uh they like each other quite a bit. Later in life they will uh sort of have a pretty heartbreak politically. And they will become um what one author has called hissing cousins. Uh they will they will fight pretty bitterly uh later in life. But, uh at this time that the show is set they're pretty close to one another. I think they're about 3 months apart in age if I remember correctly. So, then let's talk about Franklin. Um so, uh Franklin is also very very well uh uh you know liked by the Oyster Bay Roosevelts. He's from the Hyde Park Roosevelts. They're basically two branches of this family. Um and uh Franklin's father will die in 1900 and Theodore will become his role model. And when I say that I mean uh Franklin will mirror Roosevelt's rise in politics. Uh Franklin will mirror Theodore's rise in politics very very intentionally. Um they're both Harvard graduates. They both go to Columbia uh law school but drop out. Both legislators in the state of New York. Franklin becomes assistant secretary of the Navy, the governor of New York, eventually the president. Um As you can see, he even adopts the pince-nez spectacles for a little while. He will start saying things like delighted and bully from time to time. He doesn't keep all these mannerisms forever. Um but he does very much model himself on on Theodore's career and personality. And Theodore's delighted with this. He, you know, even though Franklin is a Democrat and he's a Republican, he gives his blessing. He says, "You know, you should You should be in politics. You're doing great work." I think I have a quote for that, actually. Um yeah. Franklin He says to his sister, "Franklin ought to go into politics without the least regard as to where I speak or don't speak." So, he says, you know, this is You're You're You're doing what you should be doing as he goes into politics. Um So, he's fairly athletic in his youth. He likes to swim and ride horseback at Sagamore Hill. Um he is a bird watcher. He will collect stamps. He's got a lot of interests in his youth. Um he's considered fairly stoic. Um you know, he's very sort of again sort of calm and collected. But he's polite. He's not, you know, totally without emotion or anything like that. And as he gets older, he will become more gregarious, more charming, sort of more of the the Roosevelt that you might imagine. Um His romance with uh Eleanor is actually secret at first. Um they sort of have a a chance meeting on a train one day. And it sort of kick-starts something for them. They've known each other here and there as children, but not closely because they were such distant cousins. Um And TR is is thrilled with this relationship. Um and he says, "I'm as fond of Eleanor as if she were my daughter." And to Franklin, he says, "I like you and trust you and believe in you. No other success in life, not the presidency or anything else begins to compare with the joy and happiness that comes in and from the love of the true man and the true woman. So, TR is is all for this. Um Of course, uh Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt's life will change dramatically in 1921 uh when he contracts polio at 39 years old and that will change some of his, you know, athleticism and some of his personality. Um but uh he's a pretty serious uh scholar and something of an athlete at this time in his life. And finally, we will talk about someone who did not have the Roosevelt name, but who married into the family and that's Nick Longworth. Probably pretty important to talk about him as well. Uh Nick Longworth, who who will marry Alice, is known to be witty, charming, jovial. This is a guy who's, you know, the life of the party, so to speak. Um very debonair, you know, suave. He's dressing, you know, with gold-tipped cane and and spats on his shoes. Um He He is, you know, quite a party animal, eligible bachelor kind of man. He's very musically inclined, especially the violin. He's considered extremely skilled violinist. He sings, he plays piano. Um Music almost could have been his career. The famous conductor Leopold Stokowski says um to uh to uh Nick's brother, um "Your brother had a rare understanding of music. He penetrated directly into the spirit of music. It was his natural element." Um so, I think that says a lot about his personality even as well, right? So, he's a a serious musician, but he's fun, uh fun-loving, so on and so forth. Um He is known to be uh uh again, sort of witty and sort of dry and cutting in the same way that Alice is. I think that's one of the things that that draws them together. Uh Um one day he is sitting in a chair at the Capitol and another member of the house will run his hand over Nicholas Longworth's bald head and he will say, "That's nice and smooth. It feels just like my wife's bottom." To which Nicholas Longworth will say, "Yes, it does." So, he knew how to uh you know, sort of match wits with the best of them. He is as a congressman, he's ruling both through charm and discipline. He's known to have a pretty tight control over his sort of constituency in Congress and his fellow congressmen. Especially in 1925, he will become speaker of the house and sort of transform the way things are done in the house actually. Um but his his predecessor, Joe Cannon, who was speaker of the house at the time this show takes place, is very autocratic, very tight-fisted. Uh Nick is a much more charming person who will who will do his best to to charm everyone around him to get what he wants and what he thinks is right. Um Now, Alice and Nick's marriage is uh you know, it's troubled. Uh Nick is alcoholic. He is unfaithful. Alice herself will later become unfaithful as well. Um they remain friendly, but their marriage is not one that is very romantic, um but they remain sort of cordial with one another. But they will have a pretty bitter split in 1912 over the 1912 election campaign when Nick will not split with the Republican Party to join the Progressive Party. But regardless, the two of them maintain a mutual respect for one another. So, with that, I will thank you all for being here. Just like last time, I will let you know you can get in touch with me for anything you might need. Uh and I will gladly take any questions that you have. Thank you. These ones aren't allowed to ask questions. We'll ask the questions. Yeah, here. Are Are you going to monitor the chat? Fantastic. Thank you. >> She said probably. >> Of course, she did. Thank you, baby. Yes. Yeah, she's contractually obligated to be here. >> Um in his biography, um was there ever any detail about why he did and uh Theodore Roosevelt broke up in the first place or he left? >> You know, that is one that the stories have been chasing for a long time and there's just nothing clear to put out. There's some, you know, sort of tidbits here and there that that we puzzle from. Um one theory is that um TR proposed marriage and Edith refused, but why she would have refused that even is difficult to know. Um but it's also possible that um TR's family did not want him to marry Edith because of their social standing, her father being alcoholic, who had failed at his business. There's all kinds of things that couldn't have could have happened. What we do know is that, you know, one summer they were having their sort of normal summer romps as they do. They go on one of their rowing trips out on on the uh on the bay and they come back and they've broken up. Um and TR is absolutely distraught over it and really very, very angry. So, whatever this reason was that caused it, causes him great anger to the point that the next day he nearly rides his horse to death and a neighbor's dog that annoys him, he shoots. So, he was incredibly angry over whatever the reason for this breakup was. Um and Edith, you know, sort of just maintains hope that somehow someday she will still get to marry Theodore Roosevelt, and in fact, she does. Um but they had known each other since I think she was uh 3 years younger than him, so you know, 3 and and 6 years old, something like that. Um you know, the the very There's a very famous story of them as children. Um the Lincoln Abraham Lincoln funeral procession, I don't remember if I told this story or not, but the funeral procession for Abraham Lincoln is going down the street in Manhattan. Um and it goes past the house of Cornelius Van Schaack Roosevelt, uh Roosevelt's Theo Roosevelt's grandfather. And there's a famous picture of this moment of this day. And if you look very closely in the window of this house, you can see two little boys watching the funeral procession. Those little boys are Theodore Roosevelt and his brother Elliott. Um someone else who was not who was there, but is not in the picture, is Edith, who was, you know, scared and frightened by the loud noises and the, you know, glinting of swords and guns and things, that she was crying very heavily. So Theodore and Elliott locked her in the closet. Um so that is her earliest memory of Theodore. But uh despite that, they they do end up together and they, you know, have five children together and live long and happy life together. >> TR was in North Dakota before he was president. >> Correct. >> Did his family ever come back to North Dakota? >> So his he brings uh some of his family out on a visit, and I believe it's 1890. Edith comes, his sisters come, um a couple of their husband, or one of their husbands, I think. A handful of the family does come out to visit the Elk Horn Ranch in 1890. And they have a pretty wonderful time. There's a little bit of a a rough spot at first. Edith uh doesn't like that they've arrived in a a of a storm This sort of is coloring the beginning of her trip. Um but eventually she will take to horseback riding. She rides a horse called Wire Fence uh that is known to be a pretty calm horse that she enjoys. Uh his sister Corinne meanwhile will learn from the ranch hands how to wrestle a calf. Uh so uh so yeah I don't know I don't think any of the kids ever came out here. Uh Eric Valley do you? I don't think so. I don't remember ever seeing a record. >> to know later for sure. >> Oh Ethel did. That's right. I forgot. Ethel did. >> Yeah that's later in the >> Yes yes yes much later. Yeah. Um yes Ethel does come out at that time but she may be the only one. Uh and none of them ever come as children. No. I'm glad I got my back. Um but yeah so so that they they don't they don't visit them but they definitely you know many of their nights are filled with stories of you know his ranching days out here so. >> Yes. Uh so who was to blame for the most for the menagerie at the White House? >> Oh I think they probably all share some blame but TR certainly was a a great animal lover. Um all of the many of the animals they have in the White House here in particular are gifts. Um they're going to be gifts from foreign dignitaries uh from just friends and people they know. Um last time I showed a picture of TR riding his horse uh Bleistein and that was just a gift from a friend. Um that that they knew in in Buffalo, New York. Um but you know they had just about any kind of animal you can imagine. You know there's a time they've got a black bear, they've got a badger, they've got a macaw who was very very bitey as macaws often are. In fact Ted tells a the that once uh Alice is holding Eli Yale the macaw on her wrist and she thinks he's gone and she looks away and when she looks back he's biting a piece out of her finger. So, he was you know, as parrots are. Many dogs of course, many horses, Algonquin the pony. Of course, Emily Spinach the snake that that Alice carries around. Guinea pigs, they have multiple guinea pigs more than once throughout their their time over at Sagamore Hill and the White House. Most of those guinea pigs they name after people they know including naval officers like the Admiral Dewey. So, that's pretty interesting as well. Fighting Bob Evans is another one of those they'll name these guinea pigs. And considering that Roosevelt sometimes uses guinea pig as an insult, there's sort of something interesting there. But, I don't think he meant to insult Admiral Dewey by that. But, yeah, they they were all great great animal lovers. There were limits. One time while Edith is terribly sick and TR is mainly the person taking care of the children, he buys them some flying squirrels from a vendor in Washington D.C. and when Edith finds out about this she decides that the flying squirrels perhaps are one step too far and those have to go. But, this is also a White House where supposedly if the legend is true they fed a hyena scraps at the dining table at the White House. It's true that they had a hyena. That part is not a legend. I'm not sure about the scraps the table scraps, but there was a hyena and a zebra and a lion that were gifts from the emperor of Ethiopia. So, those eventually will go to live at the zoo. Yes. >> Did TR take all of his kids out on scrambles or was it just the boys? >> Oh, the the girls absolutely went on those as well. Perhaps not as often and maybe not as much during the White House years because the White House years that it was mostly the politicians and other sort of people in his inner circle who were doing those with more than than the kids, but like at Sagamore Hill, all six kids engaged in just about every activity. Um and again, you know, as I told the story, Alice would go exploring in the swamp with Kermit, things like that. Um so, they all enjoyed those those uh sort of heavy heavy activities and things like that. Um and you know, Ethel was just as likely as Kermit or any of the others to sort of be scrambling through the haystack. So. Anything else? All right. Well, I will thank you all for being here again and hopefully see you again next week for the third and final in this series. Thank you, everyone.