Teamsters Union President Targets Amazon - Sean O’Brien | PBD Podcast | 665

Who is the enemy? The enemy now is corporate America. People are sick of the corporate greed. They're sick of being victim to the bottom line of a balance sheet. They are despicable on what they do to working people. >> That's a little crazy. >> No, it's not crazy >> Tell me more. Tell me more. >> crazy at all because look, think about it. >> Unions built this country. And more importantly, union jobs have better productivity than non-union. You know, Shawn, you're pushing me so much where you're not thinking about >> don't I don't agree with that. I don't. >> I know you don't agree with that. But what I'm saying to you is if we go to a hotel that's union, it is a pain in the ass to work with them. >> Well, I got to control the narrative to make sure it's right. >> also control guys. That's what we are. >> No, no, we are. Of course. I'm I'm not denying it. I'm I'm just I'm >> That's why they're all signing union cards out there. >> When my mother calls me up and she says, "Oh my god, I saw you on TV today. You were fighting with that senator." >> You stand your bottom. >> Oh, hold on. Oh, stop it. >> Is that your solution every problem? No, no, sit down. I don't like you cuz you described yourself. >> Hold it. >> And she goes, "Oh, that's real real nice real nice, Shawn." I go, "Why, what do you mean?" She goes, "You just got us all [ __ ] audited." Like seriously, CAN YOU BEHAVE? >> 30 SECONDS. >> DID YOU EVER THINK YOU WOULD make it? I feel I'm supposed to taste victory. Know this life ain't for me. >> Adam, what's your point? >> The future looks bright. >> Hand shaker is better than anything I ever signed, right here. >> You are a one of one. >> My son's right about that. I don't think I've I've said this before. >> Shawn O'Brien, how are you? >> I'm doing well, sir. >> How are you? >> Fantastic. So, the youngest Teamster boss. >> We like to talk We like to not use the term boss. I'm a union leader. >> You speak like a boss. >> Well, I try and be a boss. I was brought I was brought up by a boss, my mother. >> Oh, your mother? >> She's a boss, you know, straight-up boss. >> Well, I want to hear all about it. For me, the most interesting thing about this is normally when you hear union, you hear, you know, they're the enemy of the capitalist, right? They're the enemy of the business owner. However, this time around in 121 years, first time the president of Teamsters speaks at the RNC. And you guys offered to speak at the DNC, but they didn't get back to They didn't give you the invite. How do you go for someone 121 years that the president of the Teamsters speaks at the RNC? How does that happen? >> Well, I mean, think I think about it this way and you made a good point, you know, times have changed. Our our membership is very diverse. Political positions historically were Democrats. I'm a Democrat, but, you know, I'm not a you know, far-left Democrat and and our members have been changing political affiliations. So, our goal was always to work bipartisan across the aisle to get some things done in this country and that's why we spoke at the RNC. They invited us. I would have gave that same exact speech at the DNC if we were invited. It wasn't a partisan speech at all. It was about American workers and how valuable we are. But, you made a you made a good comment earlier about, you know, capitalists always, you know, kind of shied away from us and, you know, we were we were an impediment to what their agenda was. I don't look at it that way now. I look at it as we're their conscience moving forward, you know, they're making a lot of money. They uh they they don't reward the people that make them the success they are. So, um I look at it as we're their conscience now, not an impediment. >> Let me ask you this. Can Do you believe a capitalist can do anything to never need a union? >> No, there are there's always a need for a union, there's no doubt. It's just a matter of, you know, the capitalist society looks at unions as, you know, uh we're the checks and balances, right? So, if we're in the middle and we're negotiating a contract, we're representing the workers. They're control freaks, for the most part. And they don't want to have to answer to anybody but themselves and their stockholders. Capitalists, 100%. And, you know, they're going to fight and kick and scream to keep us out, but, you know, we've proven we've organized 90,000 new members in 3 years, uh my union alone. And it's because of, you know, people are sick of the corporate greed, they're sick of being, you know, uh victim to the bottom line of a balance sheet. And, uh you know, I tell you, during COVID, you always look for a positive situation that comes out of a bad situation, right? And COVID, especially in the Teamsters Union, my union, with 1.3 million members, we represent everybody from airline pilots to zookeepers. And through the pandemic, we provided goods and services through this through this country. Whether it was delivering packages, medical supplies, whether it was flying medical supplies all over the country, whatever the case was, Teamsters were in there picking your trash up. So, we were deemed essential workers. And we were deemed as heroes during that time, you know, we love the Teamsters Union, we love our UPS driver, we love, you know, our trash people, we love the people that are stocking the shelves. As soon as COVID was over and these corporations made record profits, you know, they forgot about how they made those record profits. They forgot about the people that provided the goods and services, that risked their health and the well-being of themselves to provide those services. And we've done a great job of of reminding corporations and America on how valuable the American worker is, how valuable the unionized workforce is. And, uh I'm I'm excited, I'm proud, and and, you know, we have done a lot of good work in this country, we're going to continue to do a lot of good work. And, uh you're always going to get people that disagree with you, that don't like what you're doing. Um, but that's that's an insecurity on that part. You know, they should embrace the reality. We're not going away and we're going to be around forever. >> It's interesting when you say insecurity because for you the story I hear and I'd love for you to validate the story is is when you guys first gave the story to the RNC what speech you were going to give, they came back and they said, "Hey, these couple things are not going to work." You can say, "I'm not going to do it." >> Yeah, so what happened was, you know, preparation for RNC and I'm going to tell you like it was all new to me. Right? So we we my team, myself, we worked on the speech for about 6 weeks prior to the actual week before the RNC when you had to submit your speech. And you know, we were working on it 4 or 5 hours a day and and I'm a control freak, you know, I need to know exactly what's going on and I'm like, "That does not sound like me. We're taking that out." So when we get the final draft done, we send it over to the RNC and they come back with all these edits and I'm like we're reading my team and I were going through it and I'm like, "I'm not I'm not giving that speech." And they were making suggestions too on like what we should be saying and not saying. So I reached out to Susie Wiles at the time and I said, "Look, I'll be honest with you. I appreciate the invite, but I am not going to say something I don't mean." And I and she's like, "What are you talking about?" I said, "They want me to change my speech all around." She goes, "Sean, you know what? Just call call Trump and tell him what's going on." So I called Trump and I said, "Look, all due respect, I'm not changing my speech." He's like, "This is exactly what I told Sean. I don't give a [ __ ] what you say. Say what you want." And I'm like, "All right." And that's a true story. And I I went there and I delivered the speech and it was funny when he was when delivering the speech, you know, you're talking to a crowd that really hasn't embraced us. And you know, I went up there originally and it was like 2 days prior to that he got shot. And so my initials are SOB. Sean O'Brien, SOB. >> Wow. Or son >> [ __ ] or son of a [ __ ] or however you want to say it. And so I'm walking up to to to give the speech and I'm like I got to I got to start this off right. And I said whether you like him or you don't like him, there's no denying the fact of what he went through the past 48 hours. He's one tough SOB. Standing ovation. Everything's good. And then I start whacking capitalism. I start whacking corporate America. >> Right? So So then you >> Win them over first. >> Yeah, win them over, bring them in, give them a hug, and then slap them, right? And so what I'm watching the dynamics and you know, the the opening statement and I'm getting all these claps and accolades. And then after I start whacking, you know, some of these corporations and all this stuff, like they were looking around, they were confused whether they should be clapping or not clapping. It was actually pretty comical, but all in all, I I mean, I had a blast. I had a blast. I really did. >> Who did you run into there? Like who came to you and said, "Great speech, Sean." Like actually like capitalists. >> Oh, there was corporations there that we deal with that, you know, we have good relationships with like United Parcel Service was there. Uh McDonald's for instance, they're big big supporters of Republican Party. Um but we have a we have we have a huge presence of delivering and supplying McDonald's. So they came and like, "Hey, that was a great speech. Uh you know, and there's a lot of responsible people that were there." But, you know, there's some people that were giving me the stink eye the next day, you know, walking around in Wisconsin. >> So I So I got to I want to go a completely different with this interview. I know of course I want to know, you know, all the other stuff cuz I know the story. It's an incredible story, remarkable story. But uh you know, I've had a lot of mobsters on the podcast. I've had Sammy the Bull, Frank Cullotta, Michael Franzese, you know, Philly and Eddie, uh Ralph Natale, John Alite. I've had all these guys. I've had John Gotti Jr. on. We just had dinner a couple months ago, couple weeks ago in Boca. I've had those guys. I've had the business guys. I've had the politicians right and I kind of watch everybody. And And I I watch you and I ask the question I'm like This guy's a president of the Teamsters, okay? Youngest. Your father was a member of Local 25. Your grand your fourth generation if I'm not mistaken, right? And so and you have a very high level of admiration for your father. You wanted to be your father, do what he did. There was a you said there was a best friend relationship between the two of them. And so how much of you doing this was because your family was a part of it? >> Well, it was so prevalent in my life. I mean, where we grew up, um, you know, four generations, uh, three generations of Teamsters while we were kids, everything in our life every situation involved the Teamsters union somehow, someway. If you went to a birthday party, chances are you're going you're friends with my father's friends, their kids, you're at a birthday party, you're talking about the Teamsters union. You go to a wedding, talking about the Teamsters union. You go to wakes and funerals, you're talking about the Teamsters and I got to be honest with you, um, my father was a die-hard die-hard union man, which I am as well. He never held office, he worked a rank and file job every single day, but he was so passionate and committed to the organization, taught us about loyalty. I have two brothers and my mother is probably the rock of the family and where we grew up, you're either going to be Teamsters, cops, firemen or longshoremen. And so, you know, it was just so prevalent in our in our neighborhoods, in our communities and uh, that's all I ever wanted to do in my life. I loved it. I loved the organization. I loved the camaraderie, um, and I loved the fact that through the good times and the bad times growing up that organization never wavered. The Teamsters union never wavered on on us, my family or the community. So, I'm like, this is this is what I want to do. This is who I want to be. >> Who who was the enemy? Who is the enemy or was the enemy? >> Well, there's a lot of enemies out there. I mean, uh, I'm talking specific to a president or member, who's the enemy? >> So, when I was growing up the enemy in 1980 was the legislatures who introduced and passed bipartisan deregulation of the trucking industry. >> That's the 400,000 jobs. >> 400,000 jobs, yes. So, that was the enemy back then and it was funny. People weren't calling out politicians back then. You know, they weren't calling anybody out. It was like, "These are the most powerful people. They get to do what they want." My thought process is we're the most powerful people. We provide the goods and services. We keep America moving. And had if we if I was able to roll this I don't want to wish my life away, but had I been in a position I was now in 1980 when that happened, I would have been fighting and kicking and screaming in the streets about how bad this is for working people, how bad it was for the Teamsters. >> At who? >> At at who? >> At Congress, at the Senate. I mean, they they introduced this legislation. I mean, the Kennedy is so prevalent in Massachusetts. Uh Ted Kennedy introduced the introduced the bill, bipartisan bill. Joe Biden was the senator signed off on it. You know, and and so that was I my opinion back then that was the enemy. The enemy now is corporate America. Um and not all of them, but you know, the corporations like Amazon. Amazon for instance, I mean, they they are despicable on what they do to working people. They're despicable how they treat their people. And you know, that's probably the biggest enemy we have right now. >> So, today your number one enemy would be Amazon. >> 100%. >> And and what would you like to see with Amazon? Because I know Amazon was trying to go to New York. They were going to bring 25,000 jobs at an average salary of 150. AOC wasn't for it. De Blasio wasn't for it. Andrew Cuomo was like, "Listen, guys. Let them come here." Eventually Bezos backed out and took those 25,000 jobs to a different place. >> Yeah, but those 25,000 jobs aren't real jobs. They they're not careers. Like you look at a company like UPS, which we fight with constantly, but you know, we we we have a collective bargaining relationship. But, there's 340,000 people that work at UPS that do the same job as all these people at Amazon. You start out part-time, then there's an opportunity to go to full-time. You're getting free health care because we negotiated pensions. You're getting the opportunity to work career path. At Amazon, there's a 150% turnover ratio. So, those 25,000 jobs aren't career jobs. >> W-2 jobs with Amazon or 1099 jobs? >> Well, if you're part-time working inside the facility, you're a W-2. >> Right. >> But, if you're outside delivering packages, you're a 1099 independent contractor. That's how they're hiding behind, you know, us going into organizing, but we've had some success organizing the third-party leasing arrangements, which are the the independent contractor model, where Amazon will say, "Hey, we have nothing to do with the drivers." But, you know, they'll mandate that the contractors who hire these drivers wear the uniforms, buy the vehicles, follow the policies and procedures. So, we got a very favorable decision recently in California that recognized that they are There is a There is a direct relationship with Amazon. >> let me let me unpack this. So, Facebook hired a company that moderated that watched what people were posting online. >> Mhm. >> And anytime something would come out and they would say, "That wasn't really us. It's the company that we hired to moderate, right?" And they're the ones that are watching the conversations. You're saying Amazon hired another company that they gave them the drivers. Almost like a Walmart hiring a transportation company that does the loads, so it's not their own. I'm just speculating if they did that. You're saying those guys should be treated on W-2 standards, even though they're 1099. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Why do you say that? That's a little crazy. >> No, it's not crazy. >> Tell me Tell me more. >> crazy at all, because look, think about it. It You know, it You have these Amazon, they make you buy the vehicle from them. >> Yeah. >> They make the contract, they make the drivers wear their uniform. >> They make you buy the vehicle from Amazon. >> Absolutely. You have to lease the vehicle from Amazon. You have to follow the policies and procedures that Amazon puts forward. You have to wear the uniform, you have to basically do everything they tell you, but you're not getting a W-2 from Amazon. You're getting a 1099 from uh what wherever it's coming from. >> XYZ company >> XYZ, yeah, whatever whatever that LLC is at that time. And it's just a scam to keep the union out. And and and protect against liability as well. >> It's Okay, so are you saying the 25,000 jobs in New York were those jobs? Or you're not sure what those jobs are? >> sure what they were. I mean, they they probably could have been corporate jobs. >> Right. >> Uh which, you know, doesn't help us at all. Um >> Why Why is that? >> Well, because I mean, you're going to put 25,000 management people there. They're not, you know, they're not going to be unionized. I mean, I think what they were trying to do at that time to make Amazon a a major hub, uh and that's where they would develop all their strategies and technologies and everything else. So, you know, I think that's why there was a push by the AOCs of the world to say, "We don't want them in here because they're really not real jobs for the constituents we represent." >> Got it. So, So, then let's go to the conversation with Uber and Lyft. I don't know if you remember I don't know how long ago this was. This could have been 6 years ago, 5 years ago, 4 years ago where there was there was talks about trying to get Uber drivers and Lyft drivers to get benefits and get paid by the hour. And then, you know, they went all the way out. I don't know how far along, Robert. If you want to zoom in, I don't remember the exact details. I've, you know, Sean, I'm sure you got more of it. Yeah, Sean, Uber and Lyft had recently agreed a landmark California deal that allows their drivers to unionize, a significant departure from their previous stance to fight unionization. So, in this part, what did you guys want to see happen with Uber and Lyft? Because I know you had an opinion about this as well. >> Yeah, we weren't we weren't in favor of this because it's it's it's it's a masquerade. I mean, it's really not a union. They don't have a collective bargaining agreement. Um and and these people are independent contractors. Now, Uber and Lyft when they came into the world, was it you know, they eliminated basically cab drivers, right? When they came in, their biggest play has been all along, they want autonomous vehicles. So, at some point in time, you know, with all these >> Mhm. >> Gavin Newsoms of the world and all these people that are supposed to be helping working people uh vetoing the human operators and and vehicles, you're going to see at some point those jobs are going to go away if they're allowed to, you know, use the Waymos of the world. And I think Waymo just recently partnered up with Uber or Lyft or one of them. Um if >> I I just saw a Waymo the other day. It's very weird seeing Waymos. >> Yeah. I think there was some sort of uh collaboration, right? Uh with the apps or whatever it is. Um >> Yeah, there you go. So, so say collaboration partnership in Phoenix, Austin, and Atlanta. >> Right. So, you see Waymo, you see it in San Francisco, no drivers. I mean, if they're allowed to do this, they can say they're unionized, they can say they're providing insurance, but there's no real collective bargaining agreement. And who you negotiating with? Like when I negotiate a contract, I negotiate with UPS or Cisco or anybody, I'm sitting across from the table with the employer. These people are still 1099 uh independent contractors. Who am I sitting across the table from negotiating these contracts? Who's going to be paying for these benefits? And if you talk to any of these Uber or Lyft drivers, which I do all the time, they'll tell you how bad it is as far as the split, you know, as far as they used to get 75% of the trip. Now, they're like 60/40 in some cases or 50/50. Uh so, each year, they just keep chipping away at the profits that these independent contractors uh are making. And you know, it's a race to the bottom. And I don't I don't see how we negotiate or who we negotiate with. >> Got it. So, you your uh what do you think should happen to a 1099 Uber or Lyft driver? >> Well, I think Uber and Lyft should make them direct employees. Right? >> That would be tough. >> No, they got plenty of money. I mean, Kamala Harris's brother-in-law, what's he like, the general counsel there? He's West. I mean, he's a big union guy, supposedly. He's a big for workers. Mandate that these people direct employees. And then, you know, you look at it, you're going to have a continuity of the workforce if you make them direct employees. >> How do you do that though? Walk me through how you do that. >> All they do is have to purchase the vehicles off the people that are on the Uber app right now, make them direct employees, sit down and bargain. >> Right, but let's just say if I'm somebody that wants to Uber for 1 hour a month. >> Well, you can always negotiate the terms and conditions and the schedules and everything else. You're talking about the flexibility? >> Yeah, no, what if I I don't want to be under a union? What if I'm a driver and I don't want to be controlled by a union? I don't want I want to be able to do whatever I want to do. I don't want a W-2 uh uh salary. I want it to be 1099. Cuz a lot of people also don't want to be part of it, right? The The counterargument to it is cuz I think in certain places it's very effective, union. But I think in certain places it can be a disruptor as well. Where it causes the business to say, "You know, Sean, you're pushing me so much where you're not thinking about >> don't know. I don't agree with that. I don't. >> I know you don't agree with that. But what I'm saying to you is make the So, do you think 1099 should exist at all? >> There should No, there should be no 1099. >> There should be no 1099. Are you kidding >> Well, let me ask you something. You're you're 1099. You're 1099, right? >> So, how does that work in real estate? >> Well, you got all these Look at real estate, perfect example. Look at By the time a real estate agent gets paid after you're paying up or everybody's taking their fee, what are they actually doing? What are they getting? I mean, your average person that works for a Century 21 or whatever, you don't think they would benefit from having continuity, having known exactly what they were going to make? I mean, I get the 1099 argument. And this is just my opinion. I think if I'm working providing a service, I should be getting paid by an employer. >> Yeah, the the then then what if a business owner so okay so then put the argument into a small business owner. I open up a small market liquor store, okay? Should I be guaranteed a salary by the government as well? >> I I don't understand what you mean. >> Okay, so exactly. So what I'm saying is like if you're saying a 1099 realtor put 60 hours a week for a year. He sells three properties. And let's just say he makes $38,000 first year. >> Mhm. >> Second year he goes, he puts 80 hours a week, works nonstop for the year, makes 220 second year. Third year he goes, does the same thing, makes a half a million dollars, 1099, not W-2. So he's making whatever he's making. Another guy that's there is kind of lollygagging, doesn't make the calls, doesn't drive as much as he wants, you know? And he doesn't make it in real estate, he's filtered out, goes through a different business, and ends up becoming an employee, not a 1099. I don't think 1099s for everybody. Business owner. So what is the risk to a business owner? Who has more risk? The business owner or the W-2? The business owner or the 1099? What is the guarantee for the business owner? It doesn't exist. >> Well, you can negotiate everything's negotiable. I mean >> That's for the business owner. >> Well, the business owner, I mean if I'll tell you this, it's funny. A lot of these business owners and small businesses that we we deal with a lot of small businesses all over the country, and we recognize, you know, I think there's a misconception in in society that we come in there and we want to hurt businesses. That's furthest from the truth. We actually want to help grow businesses. >> though. That that that >> No, not really. It's you got a lot of greedy employers that say, when you when you're chipping into their profits, they take it so personal like, why are you coming after me? Or and nine out of 10 times and and this is the truth, we don't solicit people to join the union. We wait for people to come to us saying, "I'm having a problem with my employer. They're making all this money. They're treating us horrible." That's when we'll go and get involved. So, you know, people can say whatever they want. They can have their narrative. But unions built this country. Unions are responsible for the bridges, the roads, all the infrastructure. And, you know, it's proven and there's statistics out there that union jobs uh are more productive than non-union. Union jobs are more safe than non-union. And more importantly, union jobs uh have better productivity than non-union. So, there's a lot of value there. When people push back so hard, like the Amazons of the world and you know, >> I'm not talking about Amazon. >> No, but I'm saying I'm using it as an example. Right. There's a reason why they're pushing back. They do not want to lose control. They do not want to have their workers have >> They don't want their workers to have a voice? >> They want to be able to dictate how people act. They want to control them. And they they they employ by fear. They employ by fear. If you don't do this, you're fired. If you don't do this, you're suspended. You know, when you have a union contract, you have just cause language. You have grievance and arbitration dispute resolution. >> the employee takes the job, though? If it's so bad, why did he why did he >> Well, some people Some people have no choice. You know, Amazon, you know, they focus on distressed communities. >> But can't they go work for you UPS instead? Because you guys in the argument >> Of course they can. >> took the salary from 145 to 170, right? And then you also uh challenged UPS to hire an additional 22,000, right? I think that's the number. If I'm mistaken, please correct me. >> the 22,000 is jobs that will you know, people that retire uh or or leave, they have to they have to they have a commitment to fill 22,000 of those jobs. But we also negotiate >> It's to refill. >> Refill. So, you maintain, but we also created 7,500 new jobs in in the last year of the contract by combining two part-time jobs into one full-time job. So, you know, anybody that's a part-timer will have the ability to secure one of those jobs. >> So, you you count if I have 10 part-timers, you count that as five employees, five full-time. >> Right. >> Would that count it that way? Like okay. >> So, go back to go back to where I'm going with this because you sound like a your the part that makes you interesting is my I'll tell you what my biggest concern is and we can come back to this and I really want to hear your thoughts on this because I think I want to know what leaks business owners have that they should be thinking about. And and that is you're seeing the price of home going like this, right? But the income is not increasing at the pace. And there is a disparity on what's causing this. Is it the fact that we went off the gold standard and the wealthy was able to print money the way they were and it's easy to make money cuz you you have access to a lot of debt? Is it that fact that we became a debt society so the rich knows how to the rich kept getting richer and richer and richer and they're able to buy up a bunch of properties and maybe it makes it tougher for middle America guy. I'm a guy that my dad was a 99 cent store cashier. So, you see that how I joined the army. I was going to do 20 years in the army and then I got out. I was going to be a bodybuilder. Then I got introduced to a girl who worked at Morgan Stanley Dean Witter. I went into the finance business. Then I went into the business. Then I made money. Then I made real money. Then I made real money, right? In the business. But for me a part of this when we're going back to the union side, the small business owner, stay on that one for me. If you're saying W-2 should be protected by union, fine. Cuz I know 10% of workforce in America is union, if I'm not mistaken, some number like that. 1099 Okay. You have an argument. I have my own argument why I think 1099 needs to kind of be left alone. Some places there's abuse with 1099. I don't think everywhere. But if you want to protect the 1099 and a W-2 but the business owner that takes money their mortgage to start a business or takes all their money out of their 401k and they paid an additional early distribution fees and all that other stuff. They risk it all. They work 7 days a week for 5 years to make that business work for no guarantee. What protection do they have? Isn't that the hardest thing to do in America? >> Look, I I think there's risk versus reward with everything we do. And that small business that takes a risk, um you know, kudos to them and it's great. The last thing you want to do is hurt a small business and I understand that, but you know, the reality of it is, you know, the 1099 has a lot of flaws in that because there's a lot of wage and hour violations, there's a lot of uh taxes that aren't being paid back to the states and the federal government. Um so, although it might sound great because, you know, hey, I remortgage my house, started a small business, I'm 1099-ing people, I'm avoiding taxes. There's a lot of There's a lot of um accounting problems with that as well. Um and I'm not saying that you know, people, you know, that start a bi- small business, you know, we don't want to see them lose it. I mean, we represent a lot of small businesses. We partner up with a lot of small businesses. We know what they can afford, we know what they can't afford and that's all negotiations. Um but some people just uh you know, want to bastardize the system and the system's broken right now. I mean, look at all these corporations that file bankruptcy. Right? They'll file bankruptcy and bankruptcy reform hasn't been touched in 30 years. Like for us, you have companies that borrow a lot of money, right? And and all of a sudden, like you Yellow Freight for instance, 22,000 teams. This We gave back $5 billion in concessions from 2009 all the way up till they shut the doors. They were into Apollo for $600 million. Right? The private equity firm. The government gave them a $700 million a under the first Trump administration as a defense contractor and prior to them shutting the doors they gouged all the big wigs, gouged all their money, they took their bonuses, and then filed bankruptcy. And those workers, my members, that worked there, because of the bankruptcy is so convoluted and and and you know, pro-employer that we're still fighting today to get pension contributions, to get, you know, uh paid time that's owed to our members. The laws are so antiquated and corporate friendly that we're the last line in creditors. So, you know, when we talk about small businesses, we talk about 1099 uh we we've got to talk about corporate America as well as being deceitful and taking advantage of antiquated systems. >> I I fully agree on the part that we used to have pension plans, we used to have a lot of retirement plans for companies. And fortunately the story about 22 years ago, 23 years ago about the fact that we went from having God knows how many Rob, can you pull up uh the number of pension plans by year? The the the amount it declined is massive. And there was a story in 2003, 2004 about what United Airlines did with their pension plan. Catastrophic to the people that were working there. So, part of me and I by the way we can >> represent we represent 10,000 of those mechanics at United. >> Oh, okay. I And again, I I I believe there is abuse in certain areas. Go up a little bit Rob, could you go a little bit up to see what it says right there? So, going to 2022. Yeah, I want to know the data of where it was at. So, I think there a part of what you're saying is true where some guys are abused. But let me let me ask you this. Uh Sean, what do you think about Karl Marx? When you think about Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto, what does the union think about Karl Marx? >> I don't I mean, we we don't focus on on that, you know, we don't focus on that subject matter. We're focusing on you know, the organizing new members right? Negotiating the strongest contracts and also negotiating pensions into those. The Teamsters pension plans are solvent throughout the whole country. We've got majority of our members are in defined benefit plans. And the reason why employers were able to again, get out of their obligations is because of the weak bankruptcy laws. Like you brought up United. Those folks lost their pension. >> I know they did. >> Right? And and and and they're not the only ones. There's a lot of companies out there that you know, did the same thing. But my point to all this is when there's no consequences in the bankruptcy laws, that's what people lose, right? And pension funds are guaranteed whether the economy is strong, whether the economy is weak. 401K, no one has ever successfully retired off a 401K. No one. I mean, I know people in 2009 when the crash happened, they retired from Polaroid. They had $500,000 in their in their 401K or a million dollars in 401K. Within a day, their their net worth wiped out. 33% of their net worth. Guess what? People that retired thinking they were going to be able to live off that million bucks had to go back to work. >> It but well, 401K is is an added benefit. >> Well, it's a supplemental benefit. >> Yeah, it's if company Some companies do it right. Some don't match at all. Some do match. If a company's matching you, you know, you put 400 bucks a month, they match you, you know, 4% 100% of it. That's free money. Take it because you're not going to get it on a different place, right? There's some benefits to it. But that alone is not enough. I do believe there needs to be additional added stuff for people to >> I got a better bad idea, right? That's my podcast. >> I know that, yeah. >> So, what we do is we negotiate the pension, right? In most of our major contracts. And we also have a 401K that's voluntary. Uh but our goal is to not have our members take any money out of their pockets to invest in their retirement. Our goal is to work with the employer, negotiate a contract, and have the employer pay into that pension fund on behalf of the people that are making this their company a success. And I'm a prime example. Okay, so I went to work at the apprentice Teamsters Local 25 for a crane and rigging company. We had a pension and we had an annuity. Okay? And I never ever had to worry about taking 5, 6, 7% of my money out of my pocket to invest because I knew that the union negotiated a pension and a annuity in that contract. >> 90% of people don't want union. For example, if you >> know if 90% don't want union. >> Well, it's it's a big percentage that are not union. But I'll give you an example. >> Look, there are some employers out there I will that treat their people right. >> And that's where I'm going with this. I guess where I wanted to go with this because you know, I do events. We've been doing events the last 20 years. Sean, we probably spent somewhere between 50 to 80 million dollars on events, just events. Every year. >> Okay, so audiovisual, 2 million bucks. You know, staging, you know, seeds and lighting and all this stuff. You spend a lot of money. Hotel rooms. I got to tell you, if we go to a hotel that's union, it is a pain in the ass to work with them. It is super difficult to work with them. And the hotel will say, "By the way, wink wink, we're non-union. We're easy to work with." And they'll say, like let's just say you're XYZ hotel, he's ABC hotel, and you're non-union, he's union. They'll use that as a way to say, "Look, we're non-union. If you want to work with us, we're easy to work with. Those three hotels you're looking at, we know how they are, they're union. Here's what they're going to do to you. Here's what they're going to do with this. Here's what they're going to do with this." And then you'll say, "Okay, well, I'm going to go here because this guy's got more space and he's got a bigger name." Then you go to them event "Man, this guy was right. I should come back here." Don't get me wrong, not all hotels who are union are >> I can't wait I can't wait you do another event at a union hotel after this. They're They're going to be looking at you. >> I know they are, but what I'm trying to tell you is and the union have relationships with me. I openly talk about this all the time. It's not something I'm >> I mean, you think about this. There's some areas that are densely unionized and it's embraced and it's it's part of the culture, right? You go to other parts of the country where they don't have unions, it's cheaper. I mean, I get that argument, but to say like, "Hey, wink wink, nod nod, they're non-union, we're going to get better service." I disagree with that. We're in the trade show business. We We We work with Freeman Decorating, GES, some of the biggest and best in the business. And the opinion on most people when they come to these trade shows or go to these trade shows is again, my point, our workers are trained better, our uh productivity is much better, uh and there's less uh um stress put on the event because you got professionals doing it. Um you know, I don't buy into like, "Oh, I think union workers work as hard as you do or your or your bosses >> Yeah, the majority The majority of them do. You know, you've always got in any industry, >> Right. >> you've always got that 5% that have the same 5% of the problems, not showing up for work, being late. Uh that's always going to be there. Yeah, I think 95% of our members go in there every single day and they give it 100%. >> Listen, >> And look at this. Like me, I'm a perfect example. I was the biggest advocate and I'm always going to be an advocate for working people and I was a shop steward. >> But you're a worker. >> I never went to work late. I never called in sick because you got to set the example. >> me put it to you >> And I would tell I would tell members that were going down a bad path, "Listen, we we retain the business. The employer is just, you know, the the the broker that when we go out there to provide a service, the the people are going to rehire us because of us, not because of anybody else." >> an honorable man, though. So So to me, you >> 95% of the people are honorable. >> No, what I'm saying I'm not saying they're not. Listen, I I I'm a guy that came up with the working. I'm not a guy that's not connected. You know, this business has been around this entire business you see here from day one we started 2013 till today, you know how much money I've taken off the table? This whole thing. This much. I don't pay myself a penny per year. I've never paid myself anything from this If I go to a speaking gig, they pay me 350 for an hour, nothing comes to me, it goes all into the business. I don't take anything out. I pay our guys well. >> I know they're all there. You know what we're doing right now? >> What are they doing? >> The whole staff was signing recognition cards. >> They're going to join. They're going to join right now. He's He's signing one. He's signing one. Yeah, yeah. But let me tell you, you know, one guy one of my guys is like, "So, what if over here people team up and they want to do this and they want to do that?" So, listen, the way I see it is a complete different way. If I take care of you and we talk business openly with numbers and you see how it works and you're involved in the equity, you're involved in the upside of the business, you're involved in the you know, in L-tip, you're involved with 401k, you're involved with profit sharing. You're You're getting paid as if you're a business owner. Why would you not be happy about it? So, our our philosophy's always been the other way around. But I want to put it on you a little. >> Let me see that paper for a minute. I'm not going to read your writing, all right? I do this all the time. When we're talking to when we're talking to people that want to join a union and they'll have questions. >> Yeah. >> And people want information, they have questions. And they'll say, "Why should I join a union?" I said, "Are you getting a guaranteed raise every year?" No. Do you Does your health care costs go up every year? Yes. Do you have a pension? No. Does your job ever get threatened? Yes. Okay. My employer is telling me I don't need a union because, you know, we're all family and we don't need an intermediary to talk about our disputes. I said, "That's all well and good. Do yourself a favor. Mark down five things on a piece of paper. Guaranteed wage increase per year. Affordable health care with no rising costs, right? A pension that I can, you know, retire on and for job security. And put a signature page and agreement between you and the employer and give this to your employer. See if he signs it. If he signs it, you don't need us. If he refuses to sign it, you need us cuz he's not going to live up to those four >> me flip it on you, Mr. Mr. putting stuff on the paper. You like putting it on you, Mr. Shawn O'Brien, Mr. you know, tough guy Teamster, you know, my kind of guy. Here's a question for you. >> is not a birth defect. >> By the way, it's so funny because you, Dana, and another guy named Shawn Mike that did the the sweating. Of course, Dana's you guys are uh similar area, right? Dana's a Dana's a tough guy himself from the Dana's the right guy for the job that he has. I- I- That's a whole different conversation. I'm not going to go there, but let's stay over here because uh uh UFC definitely doesn't want the union to go after, you know, do what they're doing there. >> Well, I mean, they've been clear. They They I think they it's like boxing and everybody else. These boxers, these UFC fighters, uh you know, they they're all considered independent contractors. >> That's right. >> Okay, but again, you know, uh let's take boxing for instance. You know, boxing you you have the promoters making all the money. >> like your cousin. You guys look like you're related. I mean, >> He is from Boston, you know. >> I know he is. That's what I'm saying. >> Yeah, well, I think we're the same age, so I know Dana pretty well. Dana's a good guy. >> Good. You were making your point. Boxing, UFC, you were going to make your point there. >> look at All right, you look at pro sports. You look at the NFL, you look at NHL, you look at Major League Baseball. They're all under collective bargaining agreement. They all have, you know, uh checks and balances, health insurance. They've got pensions if you trigger a certain amount of games and or years. Uh those folks retire young. 33 and they've got to work. And some of them have debilitating medical conditions as a result of the sports that they played. I mean, you know, the same as in boxing and and and UFC, but, you know, they they've been considered independent contractors. Was that right or wrong? I mean, I don't know. I don't I don't know much about the sport, but I know when you're talking about pro teams like NFL, NHL, Major League Baseball, there've been unions in there for the since the inception for most parts. And and the reason is is because, you know, there's terms and conditions and negotiations, there's retirement, medical >> bargaining and all this other stuff. >> But then they have their side deals. >> Right. >> Right. You got the collective bargaining agreement that is basically has to be followed and then >> Can I follow up on this with you? >> Sure. Of course. Yeah. >> Nowadays, more than ever, the brand you wear reflects and represents who you are. So, for us, if you wear a Future Looks Bright hat or a Valuetainment gear, you're telling the world I'm optimistic. I'm excited about what's going to be happening, but you're a free thinker, you question things, you like debate. And by the way, last year 120,000 people got a piece of Future Looks Bright gear with Valuetainment. We have so many new things that come in so here. New Future Looks Bright. This is my favorite, the green one. Just yesterday somebody placed an order for 100 of these. If you watch the PBD Podcast, you got a bunch to choose from. White ones, black ones. If If you If you If you smoke cigars and you come to our cigar lounge, we have this high-quality lighter, cutter, and a holder for the cigars. We got sweaters with the Valuetainment logo on it. We got mugs. We got a bunch of different things. But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent, with Valuetainment, with PBD Podcast, go to vtmerch.com. And by the way, if you order right now, there's going to be a special VT gift inside just for you. So, again, go to vtmerch.com, place your order, tell the world that you believe the future looks bright. So, Sean, let's flip it on you. Okay? You're running a good business. Okay? I think you'd be one hell of a business owner if you ran a business. And and you said something you said those capitalist are all about control. >> They are. They are. >> And then 3 minutes later you said when I'm speaking on stage at the RNC I'm all about control. >> I got to I got >> Well I got to control the narrative to make sure it's right. >> get it but you're also control guy. So both sides you know >> We're all control freaks. >> not everybody but we are. No no we are of course. I'm I'm not denying it. I'm I'm just I'm not >> That's why they're all signing union cards out here. >> It's so funny but going back to here with you. You're running a business. Okay. You have the knowledge that you have of being on the opposite side as the teamster president. Okay. Representing a lot of your members. 1.3 million members. One of the biggest unions in America and they love you. Right? And and they love you and and we love the fact there's somebody that's >> Some of them do. Most of them do. There's a couple that don't you know. >> But going back to this here. If you ran a business You're running a business. I do right now. I I know but what's your margins? What is the priority of margins to stay in business? >> So we we don't look at it in margins like so we run a big organization with 1.3 million members. Since we took over 3 and 1/2 years ago we just surpassed $1 billion in assets. Okay. Which is pretty pretty big. We have a $370 million strike and defense fund. >> I I want you to think about it in a different way. >> think I'm what I want you to hear my way. I I know exactly where you're going. So we have a completely unionized workforce that works in Washington D.C. >> now. >> I'm going to tell you how we do it. >> I want to hear it Sean. >> All right got it. All right got it. Go ahead. >> No no go ahead. I want to hear it. >> We go into negotiations with our the union that represents our our employees. And so like to your point now I got to put on my employer hat. >> Not not employer. I want you to put a founder hat on. Not employer. >> hat. >> So put a founder hat on. >> Founder hat. Right. >> So you you right now take $100,000 out. Let's just say you and your wife have had a job for 20 years. Right? Okay. And you got 220 in your 401k and you got $300,000 of equity in your home. And you say babe I want to start a business. You take $200,000 out of your home line of credit and you start a business with it, okay? Choose whatever business you want to be construction, transportation, finance, real estate, whatever it is that you want to get into, okay? How do you structure your business at the beginning to be able to manage the fact that you only have $200,000 start a business to make it grow and attract people and keep them knowing another big company can't afford to take 100% of your guys away from you because they can pay better than you. >> Well, you don't bite off more than you can chew. I mean, it depends what business you're going to be in, okay? So, if I know I got $200,000 and I want to be a construction business. Yep. I'm not going to go try and build a skyscraper in Boston. Right? With $200,000. I'm going to start out small like a lot of my friends have done. Start out small like remodeling bathrooms, remodeling kitchens, and build the business and stay within my means and stay within my cost structure. As you grow that business, you're going to need more employees. As you need more employees, your projects are going to get bigger. Your profit margins will get bigger. It will expose you to the ability to borrow more and more money. Um some of these people that, you know, remortgage their house to start a business, they start a business, they don't realize that you're going to have to work that business 24/7. You're going to have to sacrifice to your point, uh your own wealth or your own paychecks to make sure the people that are helping you build this business, the employees. Some people make the mistake of, you know, watching TV at 2:00 in the morning, have a better bad idea, let's take an equity loan on my house at 12%, I'm going to start this major business, and they're out of business in 6 months. I think like anything else, people need to be reasonable, people need to have reasonable expectations, and have patience and the will to work to build this business up. Uh and as you get bigger, it's very hard because I I have a friend of mine and I'll tell you his name, Sal LaPoli. Went to Northeastern University. Played football, came from no means at all. His parents took a $30,000 equity line of credit on his house for him to buy a pizza shop in Boston, Sal's Pizza. Mhm. And this guy bought one pizza shop. Got it set up running, paid his paid his parents off. Then started parlaying this into more and more pizza shops. And he had direct employees. And then he started getting into real estate. And he started developing real estate. And this guy has built a empire. A unionized workforce as well. And that all parlayed off a small business he started. >> union or is it a percentage union percentage? >> all his projects he does construction wise. He's a second He's a second He's a second leading developer in the city of Boston. But he didn't just He didn't just open one pizza shop and say, "I need a $500 million loan cuz I'm doing all these projects." He systematically and methodically built his businesses and parlayed it into another venture. My point to all this is, you know, it can be done the right way. But some people think, you know, "Hey, I want to own my own business. I'm going to get rich." It doesn't work like that for 90% of the people. >> why I'm asking the question for me? I'm not I'm not trying to get you caught off guard. I'm asking the question because I think you know how hard it is to run a business on the opposite side. To me, the problem here becomes the following. Um I think it's great for people to like when you're talking to a talent, say, "Look, here's the offer. Go talk to your lawyer, come back to us and let our lawyers speak to each other." And then I'll never forget when I'm trying to sell my business, my uh the guy that was buying my business, the insurance company, complete different business that I built. We grew it from zero to 60,000 agents and we sold it for 250 3 years ago. The buyer came up to me and he says, "Pat, this process is going to take 3 to 4 months. We're going to experience a moment where the lawyers are going to cause this deal to fall through. Let's make sure when that happens, we get on a call together. I said, no problem. 2 weeks before the deal closes, there's a massive war going on. We have a lawyer on our end, his name is Chris. I don't even know how to talk to this guy. Explain how this guy was. He is We paid this guy half a million dollars for 3 4 months. He's one of the biggest pitbull MF Just think about whatever lawyer you're thinking about, times 10. On every call, it's a fight with this guy. Then they had a guy on their side. My guys are calling me saying, hey, your lawyer is about to screw it up. And they said, their lawyer is going to screw it up. So he and I get on a call together. And then we talked. He says, what's going on? I said, ba ba ba. He said, great. Do you have a problem with this? No. Similar to how you know to you call Trump and Trump's like, put it I don't care what you say. I don't give a [ __ ] You know, go say whatever you want. And then we were able to get the deal going. The The part that I have with the concern here is the following. Like when you're going through this, give a raise every year. We don't just give a raise every year. We give a raise above and beyond cuz our terms, the way we have it structured, I can clearly explain to you how it is. >> Oh, we'll do that when we negotiate. >> No, when when you and I sit down and when you see but I'll show it to you. I want you to actually see it. >> when we >> I want you to >> It's too small of a membership for you right now, but we'll have a conversation. >> take them all. But I want you to go through this year. Go with the first one. Go to the second one. The second one is what? Affordability for health care, right? So, what do you do with a small business owner in 2000 and whatever the year was, 12, 2011 when Obamacare comes out, and then all of a sudden the premium for the small business owner spiked up 40%. >> So, do you know that and that's a great point. Do you know that we run the majority of our own health and welfare funds nationwide and we have tremendous buying power where a small business like you are going to get hit with double digit premiums every year, right? Increases. We control the cost because of the the amount of lives that we have and we provide the benefits. So, when you're talking small business, we've had situations where small businesses have come to us when I was running Local 25 in Boston and say, "Hey, I really want to unionize. You know, the health care is killing me." To your point, "What are your rates and what can you charge and how long are they projected out?" >> Yeah. >> And we get the best care. So, that's that's a example of an employer coming to us saying, "Hey, I I can't afford the sustainability of of of this health insurance." And you know, we've had a lot of success on that as well. >> For every one story, there's also horror stories because what it also does is the business model sometimes of the union is pinning the employee against the employer and then you coming as the hero. And then afterwards, everyone walks on eggshells of driving the company. There There is There is that part where some people are like, when I talk to some guys, I'm like, "Hey, you're part of union, how does it work?" We like it. What do you don't like? I don't like this about it. Okay. How about you guys? We can't stand it. Why? I wish you would have never done it. Boom. So, there's the good stories, there's the bad stories. The good stories, there's a partnership, right? And it works out. The bad stories are sometimes it it drives a wedge between the two. Like the the feeling I get of what's happened with America since 2020. You brought up COVID, right? Since 2020 till today. From 2020 till today, you know, it was it was almost like you know, a number came out today. Rob, you saw that chart I sent you today? Uh Sean, they came out with a study. >> Rob, what time did he send you this chart? >> This morning. >> What time? >> 9:01 a.m. >> Were you on the clock? >> I'm always on the clock. >> Oh, you are something else. >> I love what I do. But let me tell you what happened here. So so this guy uh they're doing an article on CNBC, okay? On the CNBC article, it states um what are Gen Z men? Gen Z men, what are their top 10 priorities? Okay? You know what men had as number one? No. What do you think it is? >> I've no idea. >> Having children. Okay? Do you know what This is Gen Z. Gen Z is 13 to 28. So, think like when you were that age. Young men today between 13 to 28, their number one was having children. You know what it was for for women? >> What was it? >> Number 10. >> Really? >> Number 10 is for women and number one is for men. So, boys, young men, and I know Rob I'm sure you you Yeah, I think it's going to be somewhere on the chart as you go through it. Is that the one? No, it's a go a little bit lower, you'll see it. So, to me a part of it is Yeah, you Look at that right there. Male voted for Trump. Number one, having children. Female voted for Harris. Okay, go a little lower. Go a little lower. Look at number 10. Uh, keep going. Maybe not even number 10. 11 being married. Oh, 12 is children. So, not even 10. So, to me I think what happened the last five years, it was pinning everybody against everybody. It's kind of like the story you told when Kamala Harris came to your team and they pointed a finger at you and what did they say? >> Uh, that's what >> They said, "Hey Sean, you know, you better support us or else." >> No, that's on those two occasions. She went up to one of my uh uh vice presidents who was at an Emily's uh list event. And she Joan Corry, she's one of our vice presidents. Very classy woman, said, "Oh, I'd love to get a picture with you. Um, Joan Corry, I'm vice president for the Teamsters Union." She turns, gets stern, and you better get on board. Your organization better get on board. >> How can she say that? >> It's truth. So, this lady, Joan Corry, is probably one of the most honorable people in the world. She comes back and tells us this whole story. So I call and we were still going through our polling. This was early on. I call the I call Marty Walsh who's a good friend of mine who was the labor secretary and then took a job with the NHL. Plays Association. He wasn't the labor secretary at the time. I go Do you think this is a problem or no? He's like, oh, you know, I'll find out. I'll I'll see what it is. Nothing gets done with it. Then she comes to our round table which every single candidate came to and long story short, you know, that was a nightmare dealing with her that administration as far as getting her to the table in front of our rank and file members and what she did was at the end because she really didn't answer any of the questions and they weren't negotiating with us. She's only going to answer three questions and these are the questions she's going to answer and I'm like, no, absolutely not. All the other candidates answered these questions. They didn't give us the answers we wanted consistently, but everybody else did. No one's getting any special >> Wait, she out of the 16 she didn't answer it three of them? >> Or she only wanted to answer three of them? >> Only wanted to answer three of them. >> Why why is that? Did they give you the explanation? >> No, it's just they were very difficult. I'll tell you it was her campaign. Like all the other candidates were easy. Biden was difficult. Uh we had him in before he he dropped out, but at the end of her In my fact, I'm asking her questions and and my chief of staff slides over a piece of paper and it says this will be the last question. Right? I'm like, you got to be kidding me. So, all right, whatever. And it was like 25 minutes left uh of the time frame. So then she was give summing up and she at the end she looked right at me and and and my board and she says, "Listen, we're going to win with you or without you." Like who says that? When you're asking for their endorsement. You think? >> So you spent one on one time with her? You had time with her? >> I had time with every single candidate. >> What how different were some of the candidates privately than publicly? >> I mean, privately most people were, you know, they were fine. They were, you know, respectful. >> Who did you like that didn't win, obviously? But, who was who would you say you really liked? >> who we had a a philosophical difference of opinion uh with was uh I think it was Asa Hutchinson. Um he matter-of-factly, you know, stated why he was running for president. He was a Republican, right? And he was a perfect gentleman. He said, "Look, I don't agree with a lot of things that, you know, your platform is. However, I do value American workers. I do value unionized workers. There's some difference of opinions." He was great. Um he did a great job. Um I mean, Joe Biden came in. Uh right then and there you could tell he lost his fastball. Uh one-on-one, nice man, nice elderly man. Um but, you know, it was a shame on what his party put him through. >> Mhm. >> I mean, I I I looked at that and I'm like, you know, he's a nice man. Public service his whole life. Like, why are they allowing him to go out this way? And, you know, to your point, one-on-one, great guy. When we were asking him questions, you know, he was saying a lot of the right things and then, you know, he'd get confused a little bit. But, all in all, they were everybody was respectful through the process. >> What did you like most about Trump? >> Look, he he's crazy. I mean, you know, you never know what's going to come out of his mouth. What What I liked most was the process. When we made the invite, I think it was 2024, um uh to all the candidates, he was the first one to respond. Absolutely love to do it. Love to do it at the building. We never had any presidential candidate at our building in DC meeting with our executive board and rank-and-file members from across across the country. He was one of the first ones to commit and schedule. I mean, he was his campaign team was on point. Mostly all the candidates were were were on point, but Trump and when he came in, look, we gave him 16 questions a couple weeks in advance. Not all of them answered the questions how we wanted them. Some of them were stronger on certain issues, some of them weaker. I mean, Trump's whole focus was with our with us was on immigrant workers taking American jobs and working for less money. Uh the 1099 issue came up. They're not getting benefits, they're not getting wages. You know, they're taking your job, so he focused a lot on that. Um and he he focused a lot on just talking about him himself. Um and you know, I think at the time the Democrats were so focused on the social justice platform that that's where they lost a lot of our members because a lot of our members were focused on inflation, focused on more money in their paychecks, focused on, you know, the issues that um they were we weren't aligned with the social justice platforms that were out there. I mean, look, the reality of this team has been around since 1903. We have negotiated the strongest contracts representing workers. We satisfy a lot of those social issues by having strong contracts, high middle class wages, and the ability to retire. So, our members weren't like buying into that rhetoric and you know, I think people were people were sick of the and Trump was saying a lot of the things that were resonating with our members um and that's why you know, a lot of our members, when we polled them, 65% of them were liking what they were hearing. >> 65% were for Trump. >> Right. >> And what percentage of your members are Republicans versus Democrats? Do you have that >> have that figure uh off him, but I would say it's it's still the majority of our members are probably still blue slightly blue. Um and it depends where you live, right? You know, it depends, you know, you get the gun issue, you've got a lot of those issues that um >> um our members identify with, so >> What are your big biggest states? Biggest states in members? >> Oh, we have uh California is probably our biggest state. >> Number one? >> Yeah, we have about 150,000 members uh there. Uh New York, we have a high density, Chicago, all the big major cities. You know, but we do have a presence in every single state. We represent Canada, Guam, Puerto Rico uh as well as, you know, the United States. So, we have members uh in all 50 states. We have members in Puerto Rico, Guam, and we have about 130,000 in Canada. >> Sean, what is the profile of a Teamster boss? >> A leader. >> Teamster leader. >> Teamster president. Leader. >> Yes. >> What is the profile of somebody that becomes a Teamster leader? Is there a pattern? Because the local 25 is a very well-known one. It's not like it's just a regular one, right? You've had I think you replaced Hoffa's uh um uh Jimmy Hoffa's uh son or grandson. >> No, internationally I replaced Hoffa's son. Uh the original Jimmy >> Internationally you replaced his son. >> His son, yeah. Local 25, I was the youngest uh president ever elected. We had 12,500 members um in that local. So, I was the youngest. I think I was elected at 33 years old. >> So, what what what is what gets the crew to say, "That's our guy."? What do they look for? Is it Is Is there an element of toughness, willing to fight for me? Is it Cuz there has to be a pattern, right? Where you you know, when you look at somebody that becomes a point guard or a quarterback or there's certain profiles that you look at. What is it for this position? >> position is it's simple. I mean, I held every single position in the union at local 25. I started out as a shop steward uh representing workers on the shop floor, making sure that the employer followed the contract, making sure our members followed the contract as well. Uh and then I just rose up through the ranks. Um but what qualified me or what the attraction was from our members for me to lead them was my passion to make sure that members were taken care of. My passion to make sure that they were represented in the workplace. Um and it's just it was a progression. It's not something I just woke up one day and said "Oh, I don't want to drive a tractor trailer anymore hauling heavy equipment. I want to be the Teamsters president." It doesn't work that way. In some small locals, you may get a shot at that, but you know, where I came from, it was just a progression. I held every single job in that union demonstrated to the membership that I was going to give it 110%. I was going to work 24 hours a day, you know, 7 days a week. >> want that job when >> I wanted I wanted that job since I was 8 years old. >> Get out of here. >> Absolutely did. >> Get out of here. >> Absolutely did. >> Oh my god. >> I used to go to union meetings with my father. And I would look up on the stage. I would look up on the stage and I'd see Billy McCarthy, who later became the general president out of my local. Um and he signed my union card when I first got in the union. But I would look at these these men cuz it was primarily men back then. And they were it was like looking at the president of the United States. Just seeing the camaraderie and seeing Again, we was we were very, very strong in Boston and and they were Billy McCarthy was like Bobby Orr and Larry Bird in the city of Boston. Everybody knew who he was. Everybody knew who the Teamsters were. And it was just something I I was attracted to. I loved I loved the discipline. I loved the ability to help people that weren't as fortunate as you are. It was something I I mean, I tell the story all the time. I went to a Catholic school. And you know, there was some rich kids from When I say rich kids, they lived in a better neighborhood. They lived in a Lawrence Estates. And I lived over near Boston Ave near the railroad tracks in the Mystic River. And you know, there was a divide. And they'd be like, "Johnny, be like, I want to be a lawyer like my dad." Mary be like, "I want to be a nurse like my mother." And I'd be like, "I want to drive a truck for the Teamsters Local 25." Like I knew right then and there that's what I wanted to do. >> Mystic River. What a movie, by the way. >> Oh, by the way. Oh, yeah, yeah. I fell in that river. It was like falling in uh maple syrup, so polluted. >> How old were you when you fell? >> I was probably like 7 or 8. It was right down the end of my street. You know, we used to it was awful, but it was fun. Best place to grow up. >> So so you so you're seeing at 8 years old you want to be this. 25 years later have you told anybody at 8 years old? Like did you tell your parents? >> to tell everybody. I used to tell everybody I want I want to drive a truck. I want to be a teamster. And I didn't even understand the you know, structure of it. I but I just knew that everything we had because my father would say everything we have is because of the teamsters union. You know, and and I just that just resonated with me and it was it stuck with me for life. And look, I'm I'm a loyal guy whether we're going to win or lose. I'm with you. I'm not leaving your side. Unless unless you're a rat or a pedophile or a rapist, I'm I'm done with you. But, you know, I'm loyal to the organization. I'm going to give this organization everything I have because it's given me everything I have. >> How much how much of the mindset because you know how you always uh when you when you hear the stories I've had friends say Sammy, hey who killed Jimmy Hoffa? Well, the mob was involved with this. I've had plenty of guys who have asked the Jimmy Hoffa question. I'm sure you've been asked this question all the time. So I'm not even going to go there. But uh it how how much how much of back in the days, of course not today, and I'm not even talking about cuz the last time would have been what? 80s, right? 70s where the mob was still around. Why was there such a connection between the two? Why do you think the two had relations together? The mob and the unions. >> Well, I think it was you know, big projects, big money. Um you know, the the team you know, the the uh unions had pension funds that funded a lot of projects around the country. I mean, the teamsters pension fund built Vegas back in the day. So I think there was always that, you know, relationship, but um you know, organized crime nowadays, you know, this has no presence in our in our union. Um you know, those two guys you referenced like I said, I don't if I do something wrong, it's because of a decision I made and I got to face those consequences. I don't glorify people that, you know, prayed on the weak and then when they got caught, they told on they told everybody told on everybody. I don't I don't like that. But getting back to why there was a relationship, it was big money, it was power. And you know, a lot of these pension funds, not just the Teamsters Pension Fund, you know, they they they funded a lot of these major buildings in in major cities where there was a stronghold in, you know, a lot of these major cities and that's how the relationship was. But you know, thankfully it's not like that anymore. Are you a movie guy? I watch movies. Yeah, I do. Yeah. I mean >> favorite movie of all time? >> My favorite movie of all time >> I'm trying to guess if I can get at least one of them. >> All right. So I I've got a probably a top three or four but >> to hear. >> My favorite movie of all times was All the Right Moves with Tom Cruise. >> All the right out of all the Tom Cruise movies? >> Yeah, I mean it was football. I love football. It was filmed in Pennsylvania, grimy town. Yeah, it was a great great movie. >> Okay. >> I liked Uncommon Valor with Gene Hackman. >> Okay. >> Did you ever see that movie? >> No, not that one. >> Great movie. Uh >> Can you can you pull that up cuz I know uh Uncommon >> Uncommon Valor >> Gene Hackman is a one-of-a-kind actor. He's phenomenal. Okay, so >> Um of course you you know Platoon was great. >> Phenomenal. >> Uh Full Metal Jacket >> Full Metal Jacket. Wow. >> I mean those were all great movies, you know. I mean everybody loves Goodfellas, Casino, uh >> Godfather >> You know what's funny? I and and I have people out there that'll testify to this. I never watched uh The Godfather until about 4 months ago. >> Stop it. >> I swear to God. >> Why is that? >> I just never really never I was never really into it. >> you to get it? >> No, everybody would say you got to watch you got to watch, but I watched it on a plane. I was coming from the going from filming my podcast on the West Coast to coming back and I'm like all right. And you know yourself when you're on planes, you're doing most of your research right for the show or I'm doing research for work or whatever. But I'm like, you know what? I want to watch a movie. So I had I had 3 hours or more on the plane. So I'm like, I don't have 3 hours when I'm home. Let me watch this. And I I finally watched it like 4 months ago. >> Did you finish all three or just one? >> I just watched the first one. Uh But I'll tell you I was What a cast of characters in there. And you know what amazed me? Like not like today when you watch TV or movies, even regular TV I didn't hear and maybe I missed it. I didn't hear any swearing. >> No, you're right. >> Yeah. >> And uh it was it was I'm glad I watched it. >> That's cool. You know, I asked Dana, what's your favorite movie of all time? You know what he said? Do you know his favorite movie? >> No. >> Vision Quest. >> Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Have you seen Vision Quest? >> Oh yeah, I knew um >> I've never seen Vision Quest. So I come home. He says, "Pat, whatever you do, watch it tonight." I watch Vision Quest. I'm like and I I watch it with my oldest son. So what a great movie. >> So um what's her name in the movie? >> Yeah, she was she was You know who she ended up marrying, right? You know the story of her? >> Uh listen, I know her personally. >> Okay. >> So funny story, right? >> She's got Linda Fiorentino, right? >> Funny story. Um I'm at a Lanes in New York in like 2000 and I don't know, 7 or 8. And you know, we're in the motion picture business as well, the Teamsters, cuz we provide all the transportation on the movie sets. So she's there and I met her through uh a bunch of guys from Chicago that she did a movie with. And you know, she's talking to us, regular person. And then I hired her stepson Carson to work for me as an intern when I was running Local 25. And this kid was hilarious. He was great. So she would she she actually had like a little bit of a relationship with us where I do this huge fundraiser every year for autism. So she would show up. Uh she's a great person. But we're at a Lanes when we first meet her. And there's this guy sitting over in the corner and myself and and and one of the guys that work with me said, "Oh, we got to go back to the hotel." He gives us a ride and I don't even know who he is. And he's chirping lights going through like putting lights on. He was an FBI agent. That's right. And I'm like wait, what? You're a cop? He's like, "I'm a FBI agent." I'm like, "Stop the car. I do not want to be seen with an FBI agent, right?" Long story short, he gets in trouble. Yeah. Right? That whole thing, but I would I would I would just amazing you look back, but yeah, she was uh that that was a good movie. Another funny story, she's at one of our events for the autism event. I used to raise a million dollars a year for autism and it's still carrying on right now with the new leadership of Local 25, but she's in the room and my buddy, he was crazy. He died. Kid from Charlestown, Shane Noon. He goes, "I love your movie." She goes, "Which one?" Vision Quest. And he she goes, "Well, what was your favorite scene in the movie?" He goes, "Oh, the laundry basket." She goes, "You know I wasn't even in that scene." >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. But it was just funny. She was a good personality, you know? Well, I mean, listen, it's >> it's the movie that young boys would watch and fantasize about. And I think she played it very well. >> Sure. >> She played it very well. Yeah, she played it very You said autism, why autism? >> Well, because, you know, again, we talked about health care, right? Health and welfare. When I first took over Local 25, you know, my responsibility also was managing a health and welfare fund and we were looking at costs. What's costing the most of money amount of money and why? And there was such a spike in the in the mid-2000s of diagnosis of autism through our membership and also a lot of retirees were reaching out saying, "Hey, my grandchild was born. They have autism, you know?" And it was it it was like a pandemic, but no one talked about it back then. And so, I'm like we our charity of choice at the time was diabetes, right? And I, being ignorant, I'm like, "Diabetes? All people have to do is stop eating donuts, lose 100 lb, and you know, they're controlling it." Well, I didn't know there was a type 1 and a type 2, so this is ironic. I flipped the charity. We jump in with both feet. We start raising, we became the second largest largest fundraiser in the country for autism in 2007. I partner up with Bob Wright, who used to be the CEO of NBC, and we are crushing it, like just crushing it, raising money, awareness. So, lo and behold, 3 years after the charity is up and running, my 9-year-old son gets diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. >> Stop it. >> Swear to God, you can't make that up. >> 9 years old? >> 9 years old, and I didn't know there was a type 1, or I knew there was type 2 and type 1, but you know, it was ironic where I took the position, you know, being ignorant. So, I'll just stop eating, lose 100 lb, and get some exercise, and you can control it. And then, well, we want to focus on autism because there's no cure. There's no services provided to these families. And lo and behold, 3 years later, my oldest son, uh he's 24 now, and he's doing great, uh was diagnosed with type 1. >> Wow. At 9 year And what does he do right now? >> He's a union plumber. Uh he went to trade school. He's a union plumber. Uh he's laid off, um but he's an aspiring comedian, so he is doing stand-up comedy. Yeah, it's funny. I mean, I'm the brunt of all his freaking jokes, you know. >> How good is he? Like, is he telling >> He's got jokes all the time. >> Let me tell you, my dad >> You know what's funny? Like, he's he's a he's a >> name? >> Sean O'Bryan Jr. He's a He's an old soul. He's a great kid, and um yeah, that's his >> Go down a little bit, Rob. Go down to see what a >> Yeah, that that There he is, right there. And in the middle of that, so >> And he's a comedian. >> He's a comedian, yeah. And uh he's he's got a great way about him. He's he's in with a lot of uh that that whole comedy circle is very very tight. Yeah, he's crazy. >> Is that him with Theo Von? >> Yeah, yeah. >> I love it. >> Yeah, so we did I did Theo Von last summer and he came down to Shawn loved him came down to the studio when we filmed it. And Theo Von, let me tell you something about Theo Von. He's phenomenal. He says to uh He says to my son, you know, I understand you're a comedy. Here's my cell phone number. Right? Gives it to my 23-year-old son at the time and I'm saying don't be [ __ ] calling him when you're drunk and [ __ ] in front of your friends, right? And uh So ironically last summer he's going to Nashville and he's like, "Hey Dad, I'm going to go down to Nashville. Do you think I should reach out to Theo?" I said, "Yeah, he gave you his number, reach out to him." I said, "He probably won't get back to you. They're busy." And I saw Theo not too too long ago before that. He texts Theo and Theo hooked him up with three non-paying comedy jobs, but he said to Shawn, "Hey, you you know, your comedy might be doing well in Boston, but you know, you got to try it out in other areas." He had he didn't have to do that. >> Good for him. >> what what a solid guy. >> him. Good for him. >> Von's a good guy. >> I think Theo is got such a unique way of interviewing people that I think every presidential candidate has to go through Theo. He is that unique of a guy the way he does it. When he got um J.D. Vance when he told the cocaine thing, he said, "You know, I just I feel like, you know, things have changed with cocaine." J.D. couldn't Have you seen this clip? >> then then he also He also said He said someone asked him, "What was your drink of choice?" He said, "Cocaine." >> Yeah. Yeah, he he is At any point he could say any Is this it, Rob? >> Yes, sir. >> Let me see this one. >> I don't know if I'd be sober if the stuff weren't killing people, to be honest with you. I know that's sad to say. But that keeps me out of the risk of it, you know, it just makes it too >> Makes it a little scarier. >> Yeah, that's the thing. It makes it scarier. But it's also sad that somebody I mean, this is ridiculous to say, probably that somebody can't you know, you can't even do cocaine in this country anymore, you know? And that seemed like a crazy thing to say, and Don't say it. Don't say that. I said it, but but yeah, but don't say that anymore. >> to steal that one. >> I'm going to steal that one. >> Yeah, he didn't he didn't like cocaine, he just like the smell of it. >> Yeah, he he he he That's right, he just like the smell of it. That's funny. So, last thing here before we wrap up. I feel like I have to react to this with you. It's too funny for me. So, uh uh your what hearing is this? I don't know where it's at. Rob, go on this clip with uh cuz you tweeted something calling somebody out, right? And then they're sitting right in front of you. I think I just saw my Charlie Kirk's memorial, by the way, the other day. Uh uh if I'm not mistaken. Rob, do you know which one I'm talking about? >> Mark Wayne Mullin? >> Yes. Yes. >> That's right, he's going to be on my podcast on Monday. >> Stop it. >> Yeah, bad about ideas. >> Stop it. So, we have to play this clip. Go with Rob. >> And I kind of had a back and forth. I appreciate your demeanor today. It's quite different. But after you left here, you got pretty excited about the keyboard. In fact, you tweeted at me one, two, three, four, five times. And let me read what the last one said. Said, "Greedy CEO who pretends like he's self-made. Sorry, I wish you was in the truck with me when I was building my plumbing company myself. And my wife was running the office because I sure remember working pretty hard and long hours. Pretends like he's self-made. What a clown. Fraud. Always has been. Always will be. Quit the tough guy act in these Senate hearings. You know where to find me. Any place, any time, cowboy." Sir, this is a time, this is a place. You want to run your mouth, we can be two consenting adults. We can finish it here. >> Okay, that's fine. Perfect. >> You want to do it now? >> I'd love to do it right now. >> Well, stand your butt up then. >> You stand your butt up. >> Oh, hold it. Oh, stop it. >> Is that your solution to every problem? >> No, no, sit down. >> Stand your butt up. >> You know, you're a United States >> Exactly. Okay, sit down. >> Yeah, he was fired up there. >> respond? >> Hold it. Hold it. If we CAN'T NO, I HAVE THE FLOOR. >> THE Look at the other people on the panel. They were horrified. >> Can I respond? >> No, you can't. This is a hearing. And God knows the American people have enough of contempt for Congress. Let's stop making it worse. >> and bullies. >> You have the >> You are a >> I don't like you cuz you just described yourself. >> Hold it. You have the mic. You have time. Make your statement. >> What happened afterwards? Well, that was a second round. That was round one where it was my first ever hearing testifying and he attacked me with some you know, you do opposition research and and you know, he starts hitting me with all this [ __ ] that wasn't true and I'm like, the only one I didn't have any opposition research on was this guy. I never heard of him. And so, like he starts attacking me, so I start attacking him back. And then it got it it popped off and we was screaming and yelling at each other. Then we leave there and you know, media, I didn't even think it was a big deal. And then the media uh, you know, starts jumping on all this stuff. I mean, they were doing clips all over the world. And then so, we start going back and forth on social media, him and I. And uh you know, it was pretty funny. And then ironically, I have to do another hearing. But after the first one, my mother calls me up and she says, "Oh my god, I saw you on TV today." And I'm like, "What are you talking about?" And she said, "Yeah, you you were fighting with that senator." And I'm like, "Oh yeah, that guy, whatever." And she goes, "Well, that's real real nice, real nice, Sean." I go, "Why, what do you mean?" She goes, "You just got us all [ __ ] audited. Like seriously, can't you behave?" And and uh so ironically, I have round two. And then, you know what? His chief of staff called him on it. And they're like, "Look, this isn't This is getting out of hand." And I actually met with him. And we had a lot of good good conversation. And we agreed to disagree on on some things. But, I'll tell you what. >> He's a good guy, by the way. >> He's not a bad guy. Like, honestly, I I've become friends with him. You know, we we work together. And look, we're working together on this bipartisan legislation legislation that's going to be called the Faster Labor Contracts Act bipartisan support. And I believe he's going to support it. We've had some conversation. And it's going to be good for the American worker. So, again, like we talked about earlier, something good came out of something that was bad at first. You know, so now we have a friendship. We have a a working relationship. And you know, we just got to build upon them. And you know what? I even said to him, "We got to be better than this. You know, we we've got to be better than this. You know, you're a US senator. I run one of the strongest, most powerful labor organizations in the world. Although people like the show, what did we really accomplish then?" >> And what did he say? >> He's not only laughed, but I did I did say to him, "You still think you can beat me?" And he just laughed. He's an MMA guy. He's got cauliflower ears. So, >> It would actually be a good fight. >> have to bring a weapon, you know. >> Yeah, I think he I think he knows how to fight. I think he knows how to fight. But, you're a Boston guy. >> Yeah, we all we all I always tell people it's for me, like they were saying, "He's got cauliflower ears. He's an MMA fighter." I'm like, "Yeah, I know Irish karate. Just put your head down and keep going until you can't go anymore, right?" >> So, Monday he's going to be on your podcast. >> Monday he's going to be on Better Bad Ideas. Yes. >> So, we are going to put your This is the podcast here. >> Yes, it is. Better Bad Ideas. >> Uh with Sean O'Brien. Rob, let's put the link below as well. Uh Mr. Leader President of Teamsters. I want to say that correctly. It's been a pleasure having you on. >> Thank you so much, sir. >> Really looking forward to the follow-up. And uh >> Absolutely. >> I I I respect the way you lead. I I the way you lead. I respect the fact that this is a very monumental moment for I believe for the the Republican Party and what the president has done to bring this relationship of employer-employee that's like this to more here. To have the president of Teamsters at RNC, I think that's a massive statement to Americans that we can find ways to work together. I think it's very very important. >> things I just want to cover when you just prompted a thought. So, Republicans through the whole election was saying how they want to represent working people and they want to be the party for working people. They've got to stand up and support some of our agenda like the Faster Labor Contracts Act. Democrats have some penance that they need to pay to American workers who feel they've been abandoned by them. So, I think it's a good time especially in light of what's been going on. But, it's not just on, you know, the president of the United States. It's not just on working people. To actually be the represent of working people, you know, we've got to we've got to focus and echo our thoughts to the leadership that's in charge now in the house, the Senate. You know, Senate is important. Congress is important. And I always tell people the Senate the Congress, Senate and president. I look at it as three stops on the MBTA in Boston. Congress, you get something passed there. You work bipartisan, get it done. The last stop, if you've got collaboration and a good sense of something that's going to help people, then the last stop should be signing off on all the stuff. And we're going to be looking at the leadership in both those house and Senate to actually deliver on what they said on behalf of the party. They want to represent working people. Well, now's the time. Support this legislation. Demonstrate. >> Fantastic. Fantastic. I think it's going in a direction where you're probably closer especially to people that you have that are working on this with you. I think Holly's a part of it, right? >> a part of it. Um and Corey Booker is the Democratic sponsor as well. Um but we've got >> Doesn't get better than Holly, by the way. Holly's a quality guy. >> That guy's That guy's >> Never met him. I just like his style. >> Yeah, he's uh he's he's non-corruptible uh and he's got a unbelievable moral compass and he does the right thing. >> I I feel I feel that way about him. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you. Take care, buddy. >> Nowadays, more than ever, the brand you wear reflects and represents who you are. So, for us, if you wear a Future Looks Bright hat or a Valuetainment gear, you're telling the world I'm optimistic. I'm excited about what's going to be happening, but you're a free thinker, you question things, you like debate. And by the way, last year, 120,000 people got a piece of Future Looks Bright gear with Valuetainment. We have so many new things. The cufflinks are here. New Future Looks Bright. This is my favorite, the green one. Just yesterday, somebody placed an order for a hundred of these. If you watch the PBD Podcast, you got a bunch to choose from. White ones, black ones. If If you If you If you smoke cigars, then you come to our cigar lounge, we have this high-quality lighter, cutter, and a holder for the cigars. We got sweaters with the Valuetainment logo on it. We got mugs. We got a bunch of different things. But if you believe the future looks bright, if you follow our content and what we represent, with Valuetainment, with PBD Podcast, go to vtmerch.com. And by the way, if you order right now, there's going to be a special VT gift inside just for you. So, again, go to vtmerch.com, place your order, tell the world that you believe the future looks bright.