Teacher to Full-Time Artist | Adam Cicanese

But that's where the patterns come in. That's where that process comes in because then you don't have x amount of time. Then you're trying to use your one dot session to trade crypto or you're trying, you know what I mean? That that's where this timing comes in. And then they're trying to minimize lessons by printing out 90 of the same worksheet the morning of. So that's that's where you just get these um because when you go into teaching, it's it's also you think um >> oh it's it's great, you know, value for money in terms of what I'm going to make a week, but with the cost of living that it's not. It's just not. >> Who's to blame when a child is misbehaving, underperforming? Is it the teacher or the parent? We have Adam Chicken Easy on the show today. We talk about school life. We used to be school teachers and how he escaped the classroom to make a bigger impact in the world as artists, as creators. Adam is a graffiti artist, a mural painter, and he travels the world and does these amazing pieces of art. We talk about fatherhood. We talk about the art of escaping a 9 to5 in general, and we talk about creativity and how to market it all in this jam-packed episode. Excited. If you're a creator or you're itching to create and make a living out of it, this episode's for you. Let's get it done. Adam Chicken Easy. >> Correct. >> What a name. >> Yeah. >> Where's that from? >> Dad's side. Italy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Dad's Italian. >> Chicken Easy. >> Easy. >> Where's your mom from? >> Croatia. >> Croatia. What a mix. >> I know. >> What a mix. >> And you were born where? >> I'm born here. >> Yeah. Uh mom's dad is born in Croatia and then uh dad's dad's born in Italy. >> Yeah. >> Right. And from which side of the family do you get your artistic flare from? >> No one in the family, man. They're all all corporates. Um >> so uh Oh, my nan my nana on my mom's side sewed. She was into sewing and my mom says that she's not, but she's pretty creative. >> Yeah. And how uh did you have you ever gone to Croatia or Italy or anything like that? bit of time in Croatia a couple years ago. It was really nice. My dude is getting a bit older now. So, spend a uh spend a couple years with him. Uh sorry, not a couple years, a couple years ago. Spent a couple weeks with him back over there. Uh my non my dad's side's never been around. He passed away when my dad was young. So, um not as great a connection as what I do with the Croatian side of things. >> Yeah. >> More connected there. So, Kakasi. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, your journey begins in Perth, Western Australia, >> right? And how old are you now? >> 30. >> 30. Cool. So you're 1995 or 96? >> Yeah. 95. >> Nice. >> How old are you? >> I'm 35. I'm a 91 baby. 90s gang, right? >> And uh Yeah. So for everybody listening at home, Adam used to be a former school teacher >> like yourself. High school. >> Yeah. Yeah. High school. Yeah. Uh five years high school teaching. Worked in um I was a humanities teacher, so I was permanent to the humanities department. Uh but then I also worked in pastoral care as well. So I was a year 11 and 12 coordinator when I finished up. >> Oh wow. And what what got you into the school teaching? What what made you go? >> I was running man from getting a job. >> Yeah. >> And then um because I did an undergrad and I was painting a lot when the the folks started to put the ropes on me um I was able to go back and do a dip head and I knew that it was a year and I at the time I'd thought maybe all I need is one more year to be able to get enough mural work that I then won't actually have to start teaching. >> How old were you then? >> Uh the last one. So it was 2018 when I did the Yeah. So I started teaching when I was 23. >> Yeah. So let's go back to school. Um high school. What were you interested? What were you >> just My brother was quite athletic. So I'd always be around like I'd kind of follow him into whatever sport he was playing. But I was always in the last team. >> So it was a bit like, you know what I mean? Too awkward for like I I was I was decent enough that I could get by. But then once I'd go with my brother's mates and play in, you know, the top indoor team, I'd get cut or I'd be on the bench or I'd make the name for him or I'd design the logo. Yeah. >> Um so always around it having fun. But uh it was and then on the side because of that I was drawn to graffiti because it kind of or just not just painting cuz it kind of allowed me to kind of um build something of my own and that was not linked with you know the the stereotypical things like criticism or whatnot. So, how do you get to become a teacher at age 23? What did you when did you start uni? >> Straight out of high school. >> So, you did well in your >> TE or whatever. >> Murdoch, they want they want to give you a degree, mate. No. Um, yeah. [laughter] Um, no. Yeah, decent enough I could go straight into uni. Um, and then, uh, I just did a legal studies degree. So, you don't need it's just like a commerce, business commerce degree. Um, and then, and then from there, I took a year, a gap year to pursue painting. Um [snorts] and then another half a year off because I had to get one more unit and then plus a year and a half. So four six years and straight into teaching. >> Right. Right. And >> why specifically humanities? >> It was what aligned with uh my undergrad, but then I also really wanted to um just uh I wanted media arts as my minor, so the arts. So I was able to kind of align the both. So I stayed, did one more unit, did a media arts unit, and then um I had the the both. So when I started teaching, I was in the humanities department, but uh the the art the principal at the time was also a visual arts teacher, and she knew that I painted, so I got to pick up some art classes pretty quick. >> So I was just trying to back door it to the department I wanted to get into. >> Yeah. >> Um as you do. >> And uh when you were when you were teaching art to the kids, was that more where you felt at home or >> I hated it. Hey. Um, [laughter] no. Cuz trying to teach something, I I actually then like humanities a lot more. It was this idea that I wanted to get in and teach art, but when you're teaching kids that not necessarily want to learn art, um, it's it's not as nice. So now running workshops and that, I love it cuz it's all people that want to sign up. >> And you can probably relate to that if you're like teaching a subject that you you you love. Well, I mean I I remember when I when I was uh learning to be a teacher, I did my fizzed uh major and my science minor and I ended up being a math teacher. >> Yes. >> Does that work? >> Yeah. >> Fortunately, there's a bit of maths in science, especially the physics side of things. Like it's formula problem solving and >> same [ __ ] And uh eventually I did maths because I got given a two week sub like contract at a relief teaching gig >> and I did really well and they gave me a full-term contract for it >> which also included a bit of science and a bit of PE >> and I was just a versatile first year teacher. >> Exactly. You make it work. >> Yeah. And then when that happened, they offered me a fourth term. And I was that's unheard of because >> fourth term, the year 12's are done, the year 11s are wrapping up, and all these teachers have nothing to do, so they're going to pick up the slack. And I'm like, what's a what's a relief teacher going to get any work? But they offered me it, but then >> I got a permanent job at that uh opportunity from a different school >> for just maths. And I took it cuz I was like, permanency, one-term contract, you know. >> Yeah. And that was that was that. But you uh I remember when I was doing random pickup dots where it was like uh periods where I would fill in, >> they gave me a photography class and I loved it. But the kids just like like you said, they were >> not keen until I showed them what was possible. >> Yeah. >> So it really depends, right? Um but yeah. So how you said you were there for five years. How many years in did you go right I need to get out? >> Uh the end of the third >> right and and what happened in that third year that made you go I need to leave the education system. >> Good question. Um, I was really starting to associate more of my emotional response to some of the hypocrisy that was happening with in within the school. And that would sometimes cause a bit more frustration at the end of the day rather than my time in the classroom because your time in the classroom is only x amount and then the photocopier not working. Everyone else crying about their lives. Uh external factors you hear in the staff room that you didn't that I didn't align with myself. And I started to just leave and be like, man, this this sucks. Like I love I loved the students so much. That's why I moved into pastoral care because I was like more contact hours with the kids even when I wasn't teaching. grabb to develop those relationships. But um >> the yeah some of the other side of it just just starting to I just thought yeah if you don't like your job just leave it you know what I mean and and and that's you know eventually what I did. Um but I just felt like there was a bit of that there was a bit of that. Um and and you know you can't talk in anyone else's context. Obviously people have that job and it's harder to move due to whatever having having kids, family, whatever else. So it is a lot harder, but I also just thought I I really love the positive side of teaching, but um and and you'd get that in any uh in any workplace. I don't want to say, you know, you never want to say the wrong thing, but I just felt like there was a lot of butt hurt negative teachers that hate their job and I was like, I'm cow. >> Yeah. I remember there'd be times in the staff room there just be conversations about how rubbish the kids were and all I hear is complaining no solutions. >> I was like, "How are you dealing with the child? >> Are you talking to their parents? Are you talking to them? are they at school right now where you can kind of work on them right now or you just s >> and you know you can't help but sometimes fall down that same path but also you have that enough care and self-awareness to go well those teachers just don't align with them who aligns with them better I always say in in in every day almost in my sales calls when I talk about marketing your unique selling personality is your difference when it comes to >> aligning with the person or your customer. >> Yeah. >> And at school there's a group of humanities teachers, a group of maths teachers. They all teach the same things, but they have that personality that gives it that special spark in a different way. Some kids won't be for you, but some kids you remember you had such a good connection with, you'll remember them for the rest of your life. And then vice versa. My favorite quote when I was learning to be a teacher was um most people live their lives being remembered by a handful of people but teachers are remembered by thousands >> and it always stuck by me >> and I'm just like how can I make that impact more apparent and that's why I started the social media stuff. >> It's more than a thousand now. Right. So back to your um your end of third year. >> Can I just [clears throat] comment there as well? I think like also I had a teacher um that was been teaching for 10 years and she'd always just said like when you when you leave the classroom you need to think of it as you're the adult in the room, they're the child and what could you have done differently that session? What could you have done differently that time% better? Yeah. And and like if you think of that like you know you you you meet them with frustration. You don't meet them with care. And and I just used to think like if I ever got to this place where I was a grumpy ass teacher, I would leave. So a lot of the time when I would leave a classroom if I was starting to you know everything was piling up while I was being grumpy whatever I would think man I could have done something differently there cuz I let a child get under my skin I attained to a greater level of care to what they thought of me that's an issue for me not for them but they don't care they're just going to go to the next class stir up the next teacher >> and and then why are they stirring you up? Are they bored? >> Are they hate the Yeah. >> You kind of got to get out of the system to look back in and go man I could have done so much better. >> Yeah. But then that environment is not the best place to, you know, evolve your It's weird. E >> I know. I know. Yeah. It's good. It's so interesting talking to you about it and just seeing how how you just watching the way you think about it is so similar to the way I thought about it as well. >> Um and yeah, even even now working with kids, how uh differently it is and and how now that I can look back on it. um when when you first come in, you're trying to like meet these parameters set by the curriculum, which we all have to do, but then you just lose you're just you're just in there trying to force all this content and then now I'm like that none of that matters at all. Like it doesn't even matter. >> No. And that's what I'm trying to say here. Wherever you are in the world, even adults, like they're trying to learn my workshops and I'm like, are you ready for it? >> And they're like, I don't know if I have time yet. I'm like, well, you can learn the theory, but will you about will you able to be applicable to to what you know? It's the same with kids. When I was teaching maths to them, my my greatest success was being able to have 100% engagement in my classes. >> And the way I did that was I realized that they learned better from a screen, not from me in person, right in front of them with the whiteboard. So, I would record uh a le a little mini lecture about the formula or the topic they were learning that day. Uh 7:00 a.m. that day. >> Oh, you so you record and I'd record literally on the same whiteboard I would usually teach it live. >> Yeah. >> I was a science teacher. Of course, I'm going to experiment. >> Kids of my guinea pigs. >> And I played it back to them on the TV and they loved it. Half of them loved watching it all at the same time and then doing their thing and the other half had their own devices and locked in on the the downloaded version they can watch at their own pace. >> And then the other half of the kids that would finish the uh the main screen when it if they forgot something they could log in onto their thing and rewatch it if they wanted to just like they do at home on their games tutorials and stuff like oh how do you beat this boss in this level? they're watching that video. It's like when we were kids, we were using the cheat code magazines and websites. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's the same thing. And you just got to adapt to that. And I did that. And then you you have a couple of kids who are disengaged, >> but that's one-on-one me time. >> Then you can spend that time with them. Yeah. Cuz you have the other kids engaged. >> And I'm like, okay, this isn't this isn't revolutionary, but it should be more >> revolutionary. It's kind of harder to do that with >> other subjective subjects like English and HA has >> but it's you know like I just didn't find the time to be creative until it was for me co right >> so I started >> I want to have my year off in 2020 to to try this >> to try this career of mine that I was building and >> sorry how long had you been teaching then? >> Uh three years. >> Okay. Oh so you took the year. Okay. >> Yeah. So 2018 was the first year after I finished uh university. >> 2019 was my first permanent year. So I was 2 years in >> and then that 2020 was meant to be my like let's see what happens with this business. >> And a week before co hit >> I I didn't even know it was like no one knew it was going to happen. >> I in in January of 2020 I I had a meeting with my mentor and and he said how you how can you buy your time back quicker? So, I was building my wedding photography business, making a few sales, more money than I did as a as a school teacher, but I was like, well, during the week I'm not doing as much. I'm doing editing, a bit of admin work. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Why not do some relief one day a week just just for shits? >> And then I went back to the school and said, "Hey, I'm I don't need to do this, but I want to like do like one random day." And they were desperate. They were like, "Can you do a PE class, year seven PE class, and a year 8 maths class?" I was like no to the year seven class, yes to the year eight math class. So it was just one class the whole time and >> you had the four sessions. So you had to come in each day for a random out >> for one. Yeah. >> But they also my form class. So a Tuesday was like a double period. That's cool. >> But then what would happen is they would they would ask me if I wanted to fill the rest of the day with like >> relief >> and that's what usually happened. So I would do random other subjects and but but by then I was the popular Tik Tok teacher. >> Yeah. guys, they all knew I was wearing. >> So, so those relief lessons were sick. But then CO hit and I was an essential worker. >> So, I had no other work. >> So, [clears throat and snorts] then you were doing the essential. Yeah. Yeah. >> And then and then I picked up more days and I was like >> far out. That was that was lucky. >> Can I ask you something? How were the teachers during that time? So, you've come in as the popular Tik Tok teacher. How did that uh was that kind of Yeah. taken on by some of the other staff? I mean, no one really came up to me and called me out on it. >> No, they they >> they I can see in their eyes that they were not uh pleased. >> Yeah. Cuz >> But I wasn't doing anything wrong. >> Yeah. They they teach you at university you need to be a ghost online on social media. But I thought in this day and age where the kids heroes are online, whether they're streamers or athletes or any celebrity out there, >> they see them online. Why not be online as well? >> Yeah. >> Where they see me all day and then they see me on their phone. They can't escape. >> Yeah. >> But I'm not doing anything dodgy like >> No. No. I felt the same way, man. It was such a difficult um >> There are people, there are teachers. >> It wasn't even difficult. I just didn't care. I just I was the same as you. I didn't care. But then like I'd just got to a place where um I started like pushing it in terms of just what what I was doing on social media in terms of like just limited clothing. Like I'd put up a painting video or something. And then that's when I started, okay, I'm I'm teetering on the edge here. Um and that was a choice that I was making cuz I was I'd already made the choice that I was leaving. So then on a Monday, I'd have to be careful about how I you know what I mean? Yeah, I remember when I made the choice when I was leaving, I was I started to do some more like borderline like that's going to be a bit um frowned upon. Like one example was there was a trend on Tik Tok where >> emojis would come up and you'd have to figure out the the title or what the movie would be called or whatever or it'd be really bad English and you'd have to like kind of sound it out. But the trend was if you put on an Asian accent, you can actually guess what it was easier. It made it easier to figure it out. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And it went viral. >> Yeah. >> 99% of the people were like, "This is hilarious." >> Some some Asian um uh people were commenting going, "Dude, your Asian accent's better than mine." >> And then you have this very small percent of >> And that's the percent >> very young 21-year-old white girls. >> Yeah. who were going that's racist, >> insensitive, blah blah blah. This is 2020 when cancel culture was like >> the woke thing really happened. Like now who gives a [ __ ] >> right? I grew up watching Jim Carrey, Robin Williams, all those comedians who put on that accent, right? >> But I stirred the pot. I poked the bear. I would reply to them. And then I realized uh that they were actually plotting a plan to really actually cancel me. So, there's a Facebook group called Spill the Tea or something. 300K members in it. Just all girls complaining about [ __ ] trying to pitchfork someone. >> Who's our victim this week? >> That week it was me. >> And I had some fans in that group cuz you know, law of averages. And they would message me saying, "Sev, something's happening in this group. You should know." They'd send me screenshots and I'm like, "Holy shit." and they're all going, "Right, we need to draft up a letter to email the principal of this school." And they did it and they sent it. So, my principal had other [ __ ] to do. She she was putting out fires about co and I was and and she just blatantly said to me, she goes, "Se, I know what you do, >> but this isn't a problem I want to deal with right now. >> Can you sort it out? Can you like just >> can you take care of it?" And she goes, "I have to follow procedure here and standards and integrity has to be informed about this cuz it's a policy, but can you >> sort this [ __ ] out because they're about to do an investigation?" >> So I hit it all and then I got a letter from Have you ever gotten a letter from Standard Security? >> So what happens is they send you a letter. >> So you got that you got the next you got I never got there. I was out before that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, so I got the letter, but the letter is uh registered to your um like postal address. So, >> if you don't pick it up, a little letter is received saying you didn't sign for it. >> So, it's like one of those serve letters. You got >> served. Anyway, I remember core memory going to the post office cuz I wasn't home uh to pick it up. >> You knew it was Yeah. >> And then I wish I recorded it. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm I'm looking at this letter. It's one of those tear open envelopes. I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] [ __ ] myself. Opening it up, opening up. Hey, blah blah blah blah blah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Um, as far as we can tell, you've done nothing wrong. It's been tossed out. And I'm just like >> [ __ ] beating. I'm like, [laughter] >> but then I was like, I don't care, man. Yeah. I don't think they care. I would also get students um message me and if I knew they were student, like I still hold a TB number now. I just never reply to them once they leave like my old leaving year. I message them all now. But I just started getting their parents messaging me, man. That's when it started getting strange because I didn't >> just messaging me either telling me they love my stuff or like I would get one of the moms from school man continually messaging me but then I just started feeling weird about it. I was like cuz you know why? Because say if you see them at school and then I'm not I just didn't like that dynamic. Like if the mom's hitting me up or whatever and I'm trying to say yeah um thank you so much it's so nice whatever. And I was trying to build those boundaries in but then I'll just have a few return customers who messaged me. I'm like no let's just tone that back. Um so just just things like that where and then yeah but the the students now like I I was so uh fortunate to have an amazing year that I I took them the whole way through. I did five years with them and then I bowed on them low for their last year. Yeah. It's it's amazing but going back to what you're saying man I don't think it's um I think at that time when I was putting myself out there I thought it was oh you know a bit bigger than what it is and always looking back like the world's changing. every everyone's online. Everyone you um yeah the education department they they can't treat it the same as what they would have been able to treat it 5 years ago. >> Yeah. What what do you think the problem is now with the school system? Do you think it'll get better? >> I just think it will change completely. I just don't think it's the same system as what what it can be just based on the way we engage >> like our brains are changing. >> Yeah. It was already behind when, you know, computers were starting to get into it and then the internet started and now social media and now it's even worse with AI. >> Yeah. >> Like the >> I don't believe the education system can catch up >> at all. And what comes next? >> Look at homeschooling. It's getting bigger and bigger. Man, you used to be a full weirdo if your kid was homeschooled. Now I'm thinking I'll homeschooled the little tacker. But like it's Yeah, it's definitely >> Dina school. Yeah, those sorts of things are starting to get way bigger where they're smaller. And that's again because the the person in the room can give that group of students that level of care. You go to government high school, there 32 kids in every class, man. >> 50 60 minutes of time. That's barely a minute, 2 minutes a kid, you know? >> And and our dopamine release and how we focus with the with like swiping, it's hard on the teachers. So then you get let like it's Yeah. I don't know. Boring. >> Yeah. I don't know the answer to be honest. I just think um if you're a teacher, make content. No. [laughter] No, I I genuinely don't know. And and u and I um >> Well, I've had I've had teachers hit me up saying, "Sev, how do you I escape? >> How do I get out of this job?" Like, they were crying to me. Like, even former colleagues of the school I went to, they were they tried to leave. They had to come back because they have a mortgage. >> And I'm like, "Step one, avoid a mortgage if you get into a a teaching role." >> Yeah. Like there were teachers that I knew who were speed running into level three. >> Yeah. >> Within their third or fourth year. I was like, "Cool, man." >> And chase money. >> Yeah. What What's to go >> go to the resources? >> And then some some principles out there would say [ __ ] like >> you're all on the path to principal [ __ ] >> Like [ __ ] I am. >> There's only one. >> I'd rather not be a principal because they're doing more admin work than student like development stuff. Like, yeah, some can say we're innovative and we help the teachers who then help the students. I'm like, I got into this job to help the kids. >> Yeah. >> I'm not here to progress up the ladder to then help other teachers who may be underperforming. That's their [ __ ] >> You just hit the nail on the head, man. I was getting asked, oh, will you be the next like people saying, oh, you know, where do you want to go? You know how you always every six months you sit down, you do performance management. And I would say leave. I will do I will do the best I can until the day I leave. But I want to make it very clear to everyone at this school. I'm leaving. If it's not this year, it's next year. Don't put me I said I will um I'll I'll come into meetings. I'll present. I'll I'll get around you. I'll do whatever that's needed to be done to like whilst I'm here 110%. But with the goal of building enough of experience here and building enough online that I can bail. >> What patterns did you notice when you were teaching in different schools? Now, I say different schools so that we're not blatantly uh calling out the one school we both went to the most. >> What patterns did you notice that you were like, "This is not right and no one's doing anything about it." >> I'll give you my example. >> Go. >> Right. So, the PE teachers, >> yeah, >> Friday morning tea, I don't know if you ever had this, but there were departments that would they would take turns in the morning tea rounds. We had a PLC school at one school and that's a professional learning community. Dog [ __ ] idea. And [laughter] and I'm a healthy guy, right? I don't eat [ __ ] I hate [ __ ] processed foods, packaged foods, all that stuff. And I get to the morning teas and it's just cakes and chips and [ __ ] Lollies and feels like I'm at a little kid's birthday party. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like and I'm and when it's our turn, I'm expect we're expected to bring something in. So one time I got my wife to help me with the platter. Nice vegetable like everything like Italian sort of [laughter] anti pasta [ __ ] >> Put it down. Everyone's like, "Oh my god, that looks great. Amazing. Who brought that in?" No one [ __ ] touched it. >> Which was great cuz I had a whole lunch to myself. >> Yeah. >> But I was like, "I'm never doing that again. I'm going to Woolly's and I'm bringing in some random cake that I'm not even going to eat, but I've just contributed to it and I'm not going to eat any of this [ __ ] cuz it's all >> I didn't go. I wouldn't go then. >> I It was compulsory for us. We had to make an appearance. >> I was that person that didn't go. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah. And the contradicting thing was the PE teachers, the health teachers were all stuff in their face with this. They were like >> overweight. And I'm like, "Bro, what the fuck?" Yeah. And then and then another contradictory thing is there were business teachers. >> When I asked them, "What business are you currently running?" They're like, "I haven't haven't had a business." I was like, "What are you doing teaching business?" >> Yeah. >> You're teaching out of a book with no context. And then it hit me. Most teachers have been in the school their whole life. >> Yeah. >> From primary school to high school to university, back to school. M >> they've never left the outside world to have proper real world context >> to be able to tell >> fear of mine man yeah that would became a fear of mine that's why I got along with all the best teachers I got along with were the DNT teachers man cuz they're not woodwork dudes they're like engineers they're like really bright dudes that are old that just want to come back in and do some crafty stuff and they're really passionate now about doing something that was completely different to their career they can look even even Mr. heart who I went to school with. I always say his name. He was my woodwork teacher. He was a legend, man. Cuz he just had stories for days. You'd want to sit and listen to him. Um and and you know that's a pattern in it. So even now I think man I'm going to go as hard as I can and then one day I'm just going to go back and teach. >> Yeah. But you're going to have so many stories and you're going to have such a greater impact. Like I had a greater impact when I started doing the Tik Tok stuff >> because my mass lessons were literally about like all right guys here's what's happening. I've got a new business deal. I've got a new collaboration. I remember I got a email from Sony for the PlayStation collaboration. >> And I remember the kids coming. I was like, "Guys, check this out." I put it on the screen. I was like, >> "Sony wants to collaborate with me for a PlayStation." And they were like, "Wa, that's [ __ ] like you can't you can't get that experience by just being a a career teacher who hasn't lived outside of the classroom." >> Yeah. You know, >> 100%. Yeah. and and um yeah, [sighs] I'm just thinking about I'm trying to say something positive about those teachers are do I don't want to be that person that's like a we've just been in school because then a lot of them are able to have that time where they can where they can travel and they have a really traveled experience and then they bring that back to the classroom and they cut they've lived somewhere else for a certain amount of years and and whatnot. Well, if that happens, that's great. But but when the ones that go on holiday for 2 weeks to Bali because that's all they can afford because they got a [ __ ] mortgage or the six weeks of summer that they're really just resting and trying to just unwind and they're probably drinking the drinking culture that I found. >> Yeah. Bad. [ __ ] >> Bad. And I don't really drink. I know I messaged you for a drink today on a Friday. I'm trying to have one drink. I'm trying to bring whisies and [ __ ] >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to have a drink on a Friday and relax. I'm always working. So like now now with a little man I'm trying to um chill out. But >> um wait, what was I saying about teachers? >> There are good teachers. There are brilliant teachers. And the best teachers out there are doing it not for the money. But unfortunately there's a lot of teachers out there who aren't financially literate and they made not the best most optimal choices. So they have to figure out how to make more money and >> yeah and that's where the time but that's where the patterns come in. That's where that time comes in because then you don't have x amount of time then you're trying to use your one dot session to trade crypto or you're trying you know what I mean that that's where this timing comes in and then they're trying to minimize lessons by printing out 90 of the same worksheet the morning of. So that's that's where you just get these um because when you go into teaching it's it's also you think um >> oh it's it's great you know value for money in terms of what I'm going to make a week but with the cost of living that it's not it's just not. >> Who's to blame when a child is misbehaving underperforming? Is it the teacher or the parent? >> Sorry to interrupt one last time. This is actually a sponsored post. If you need to run ads for your service-based business and you don't know how, there is one agency I would trust in the entire country and the world probably where you spelled wh h e r e and then the letter u. They literally teach you how to run Facebook ads, Instagram ads, and create a whole funnel for you to get more business. And I use them myself. They've taught me how to do it. and I get all of the business which is fantastic. If you want to learn how to run ads properly and dominate your industry and win all of the clients, hit up where you back to the episode. >> Let's teach you 100%. >> So when uh I remember this one kid was uh misbehaving or there was something online that I was talking about. I made I made a rant about this. I need to find the video on Tik Tok. But >> I was talking about the teachers not being good enough. >> Yeah. >> And I would I got DM after DM from other teachers from around the country and the world going, "How dare you? >> It's the parents." >> And I'm like, "Okay, so hypothetically, let's say the parent, tough draw card. >> The parents just [ __ ] M >> the kid comes to school and they're not better off because their parents are [ __ ] right? Blame the parents. >> Who's their next best bet to change their life? >> The teachers. >> But then it's that process of blame. How's that kid ever going to get a chance? We're all sitting around trying to blame someone. How about someone just [ __ ] helps a kid? >> Stop looking at someone blame. >> So that's when it comes to student services, pastoral care. The school >> I didn't care about the what my kids grades were. one same one of the schools that I taught at, they didn't even have student services >> and they also had uh no uh special needs section. It's all one. >> Yeah. >> Good luck. Have fun. >> Yeah. >> Oh, by the way, >> that's based on their hours, based on their numbers, and based on that's what's so so difficult, man. Like, yeah, >> man. What else? What else would you notice? I noticed that the catchment rate, you know, a a public school kid is worth $10,000 a year to the school, >> right? So, the more you get, the more budget you get, but then you don't see the budget get spent on anything. Things get broken and never fixed or they have this innovative program that they're trying to market on Facebook to get more catchment, but no one gives a [ __ ] And the kids are not any better because there's no real programs to help the kids in need. It's like a politics within politics. >> Within politics. Yeah. And and that's why I think I felt like some of the good teachers were the ones that rebutted to the system. Like one of my like um the teachers I was super close with in his time and he knows who he is. Absolute legend. Man, he didn't give a [ __ ] about anything else going on in school. And I like why he's like man. He's like f that. Does does nothing for my classroom. Does nothing for the kids I work with. Nothing like the same. most time a bit of a dick man and you know a legend but they thought he's a bit of a dick. He didn't want to get involved. Staff meetings, he just passed. You know, those pass, but he's the brightest one in the room. And then you'd have people like me that's trying to get involved and talk whatever, trying to, you know, do do my best to to look a certain way or feel a certain way just cuz I cared where he was older as well. He he just didn't care, man. He was like, I only care about the classroom. >> That's very similar story with a humanities guy from one of the schools I taught at. And he was across the hall from me. And I remember the first day I came into that staff room cuz we were in the same building, he was talking about uh how his vest for uh schoolyard duty was too small. [laughter] And I came in, I was like, noted. I'm going to win this guy over. He looks like a really cool person I can learn from. So I went on Amazon, found the exact vest in his size and ordered it. Got it the next day. Came in and said, "Hey man, I got you a vest." And he goes just looks at me like I was the the [ __ ] lord. And he was he was like, "What the fuck?" You know, it's taken three weeks for him to complain and never get it. And then for me to understand it and pay 20 bucks out of my own pocket to give it to him. Mates for life. Like that's that's how you come in guns blazing. >> You know how you're talking about patterns? Um money right now. We all get paid the same. We all know our levels. So everyone it pulls that out of it. But in a way, it almost makes people even more stiff cuz I felt a fear around telling people where I was going on a holiday cuz I worked two jobs, man. The whole time like I worked every single weekend. I had gastro bloody once a month cuz I was calling a sicky to try and get a mural done. But it got to a point, man, where I couldn't say like I would, for example, uh week eight or week nine, I'd have gastro. I'd finish on a Thursday, I'd fly to Sydney, punch out a mural, fly back in on a Monday morning, be back in the classroom for a Tuesday. This would happen. I'm working heaps. Then when it would get to holidays, I'd be like, "Oh, I'm going to Europe or I'm going here." But it started to get oh how are you how are you going there man flights are so expensive this time thing or how why like and I felt like >> ask you that >> yeah I used to get like I just it didn't feel like say if you told me you're going holiday I'd be like man that's fire tell me about it where you going if you get any links I'll be going there soon I want I want it like whereas I really felt this um that's classic I was trying so um hard to be able to build uh things outside of work so I could go and travel to work or paint or whatever and then I just felt like I almost couldn't talk about it whereas when I'm sitting around with the boys. I talk about every it's you're so excited for others and I really started to feel this um just just like people just weren't happy for you and I was like man I'm happy for everyone like I want you to go everywhere and then I was getting this. So then I just man I stopped talking about where I was I just became very person would only talk about work until I until I kind of and I still have really positive relationship with heaps of teachers but yeah just some teachers now I just remember it being like why your butt hurt man just work harder. >> Yeah. I remember when I started to get a bit more popular and um I did this I had this idea to dress up as a hot dog and go to Bunnings and try the hot dogs and review hot dogs. It's like a hot dog cannibalism sort of skit idea. >> I was at uh near the school that I taught at the Bunnings near there so I could bump into like teachers. I did I bumped into one at the car park and this was already after I left the school. She looked at me and she goes, "Oh, is this what you're doing with yourself?" [laughter] >> And I was like, and like by then I was already making double my school salary. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So I was like, "Yeah, having a lot of fun. I You want to buy a hot dog?" Yeah. Yeah. >> So I was Yeah. Like my at the peak of the first year out of school uh after after 2020, I made half a million dollars from wedding photography. First year out. my personal brand collaborations and halfway through 2021, people came to me to start like getting me to teach them to learn how. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I had three different businesses going. It was a lot of work, but I could handle it. >> And you also want to prove it to yourself. >> Yeah. And I was like, >> you say yes to everything. >> Yeah. And I and I always like flex the numbers and and stats going the in the first initial 3 months I double my school salary working 10% of the time as a wedding photographer cuz you work >> you do 15 weddings a year that's 15 weekends. >> That's nothing. And then and then uh I think it was like seven time six six times my um principal's wage or probably four times my principal's wage. I was like there's your principal [ __ ] >> Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat] Exactly. me, my pathway to principalship is leaving. >> And you and you didn't manage anyone else. >> But also like something that I I like to think of now is like my two bosses that I really looked up to are way more intellectual people than me. Man, they've both left to to start their own thing. >> Um, one of them starting a bar in Thailand and one of them Yeah, it's dope. I'm going to go there this year. And one of them's a celebrant. Um, so but like the same thing and now they >> sounds like Daniel Delberella. >> Yeah. Is it? >> No. No. No. No. Oh. Um, but yeah, it's cool to see the two two of the people I work with then cuz I was always saying, "Man, I'm leaving. I'm leaving." And I was like, "These people are proud of me. You can leave, too." And now they're messaging me like, "Man, we're, you know, one's doing three days and one's quitting all together." And I'm like, "It's sick." Not to say to you don't want good teachers to leave, but yeah, it's it's awesome. >> So, we're going to [ __ ] on the the education system for a while, but um, what's been your favorite moment as a teacher in the classroom? Do you have a core memory? um one of my students and I I just got to be careful how much I I say I moved in past care quite quick. So when I got there, um my first year seven class was this was this year group of kids and uh in my very first art class had the student in he was in year seven and um he just had it tough man the whole way through and then I picked him up when he was in year nine um and just the relationship I I built with him uh like it I just didn't think like I was just super supportive of him. I saw how much he needed and I and it was to a point where I saw how much my opinions mattered to him. Um and there was there was a few individual occasions where like you know I caught him with a bong or I caught him with cigarettes or I caught him with a lighter and that was no longer you know what I mean like we um we'd confiscate off him try and call someone no one's calling no one you you know you try and put it through the the process and it would just never get followed up and as a benefit you could get him back into the classroom. But I just remember those those sorts of moments where um the value in what I did for him by you know taking the onus or helping him kind of man manage that um provided him a greater level of care instead of resulting in me being like that's a bong. I'm calling the police. We're going to do this. You're going to get taken off your parent. They're going to have to fill in this. You're you know your old girl what I don't already want you there or whatever because of whatever's going on at home. And as a result I don't see him for a month. So we had I was like in a rough school, had a lot had a lot of hard like rough kids. So it was it was great at that time and he's an adult now. And then that was in year 9 and then by year 11 12 I was helping him get a job and then now he's messaged me and he's got that job. So just to see that the whole way through with those certain individual students, they're the memories, man, that like I'm like, "Okay, tick the box," you know, like >> full U-turn, you know? I had a I had a kid in one school that I >> Sorry, that wasn't really one like good scenario. Just that feel like feeling of helping a kid for that. Yeah. >> One one year nine, one kid in year nine that I would be um that would be helping out, he hated me. His girlfriend hated me as well. And they were just it was just like a terrible time. It was just that one kid like, "Oh, I've got this kid again." You know, try to break through, break through. And you just chip away at him, you know? And then eventually it was like, "Oh, you're actually really cool." Cuz I had sneaker collection and he he he vied with that. And then eventually I left the school cuz I got my permanency, a different one. He said, "Sir, can you come back? This is shit." I didn't realize like what we had until it was gone. >> [laughter] >> And then I would just just message him every now and then, even though he was still at school, year 11 and whatever on Instagram, but I just like give him a little bit of advice, whatever. Now he's like in his 20s and >> he's progressing through life and doing this and this and this. We'd have calls every now and then and just like, >> yeah, man, it's the same thing. >> That impact is so cool. But my one of my favorite little kids stories because I did a relief at as a year one science teacher. >> Kid come up to me um during it was art class cuz we were teaching it was science but it was art. We're doing two cans on a piece of paper and uh that you can make the two can with shapes. You had to cut them out >> and one shape was a circle. It's like level difficulty like 100 right now. It's expert. And they were like how do you do a circle sir? And I just like cut it out. And then that moment that last piece of paper dropped, they see the circle and they're just like, "Wow." And then they'd all come up asking me one by one by one. I was like, "All right, guys. I'm going to show everyone." And everyone's just like, "Boom, boom, boom." Just minds exploding. I'm just like, >> I am I am the king. >> I am the king. I am the captain. >> I like we big boys club at the school I was at in terms of like a lot of the lads, I would just play basketball. I'd stay on the courts cuz I was like the teacher that would go out there and tell them the bell's gone but then try and like shoot a hoop with them or whatever else. I had this banter with them but then whenever there was a brawl or what not at the school man they would just pop up man and just tell the younger kids like get away from chicken easy. Like do you know what I mean? There was a bit of that and they were just funny ass. Like I had one girl going off of me in my class. She was just going off. You could hear her from the next class. One of the boys just walked in and said, "Oh, Ligma." And she said, "What?" She goes, "What?" And he goes, "Liggma nuts, [ __ ] Sit down. It's Chicken Easy's room." [laughter] But just like I like like I always had these two boys that were year level 12 that would always pop up and they just like put them back in the line straight away and I wouldn't have been that quick. So I thought it was hilarious. Like I had another same same boys like I had my year seven class all rowdy ass slapping each other and they're quite rough kids. I'm trying to yell them they didn't care. One of the boys just come past and just kind of like said it was absurd. I was like yeah are you good? I'm like yeah. And he just goes like and staunch all the sevens. They all know him. To me that dynamic is not the same man. think he's just like just like levitate like into line and he's like yeah and then like when he walks around the back line he's like got you sir. I'm like yeah like they were just popping up all the time around here. That's dope. That kind of social Yeah. >> So when you're Okay, let's let's move it to the fifth fifth year. >> Fifth year of school. >> You're now really edging out of the classroom. >> What was the strategy? What was your plan that you set up for yourself to leave? >> At that point, I was already one year into making content every single day. >> Mhm. >> And I'd made that decision the year previous in the fourth year and I was cutting down my hours. So I was now at 6 >> and I tried quitting in the January. >> Did you have a mortgage? >> Not at that state. Uh I think I did. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I think I did. Yeah. Yeah. I think I just had I was like a year into having a mortgage. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm not obsessed with mortgages. It's just one of those things that I see it becomes a shackle to what career you've chosen. >> I only got the mortgage based on the current say it was not going to be a shackle. >> I was like it was going to be more I had sorry I had never rented at that point in time. So I'd always lived at home which I was fortunate enough that I had those relationships with my parents that I was able to save. So I wasn't considering my next move around X amount going out. >> That's awesome. I wanted to put myself in that situation. >> I glorify that. I glorify that. So, I was working two jobs to get to that point where that wasn't going to be the outline. >> Did you have a MS by then? >> No. >> Okay. >> No. Yeah. Yeah. So, I was just working um whatever else. I I had a partner when I first started teaching. We had split. I was a few years on my own. Um and I was just cruising. I was just working two jobs, saving, getting ready for the next move. >> All right. So, you're at 6. And how often do you get um mural gigs at this point in time? >> So, I was three days a week, Monday to Wednesday, teaching. And every Wednesday night, I would drive to a site and set up a mural, start painting Thursday morning, finish up Sunday lunchtime, might have gastro on the Monday, be back in the room. >> What's with this gastro? >> There's only way I could get off cuz all the kids used to have gastro. There's only way I could get another sick day with no one. No one wants to ask you for [ __ ] yourself. >> So, so if I said, "Oh, I've come out with gastro. I'm painting on the Monday again. I'll be back in the room on the Tuesday. I'm feeling better." No one ever if you say, "Oh, I've I've got bad migraines or whatever." They're like, "Oh, you're doing this. You're doing that. You hydra." where if you say, "Man, I've had the shits all weekend." >> But how how often do you get how often? >> I know. In the last year, I had it three like two or three times, which I never had cuz I had two or three trips that had aligned with really cool opportunity. I kind of knew I was leaving. And this is where it got awkward. It's like my the people above me, they knew. They're like, "Mate, this bloke, he's he doesn't have Castro." Um, but I I was just traveling for work. So, I was teaching Monday to Wednesday. I was doing my best to obviously be in the classroom, but I wasn't pulling the piss, but I would just paint Thursday to Sunday and then and then continue teaching. And I knew I could only do that for so long. All right, let's go to another timeline. We'll come back to the teacher timeline, but let's go to your art timeline. >> Yes. >> How early, how old were you when you first picked up a pen, paintbrush, oil, pastel? >> Man, I have a sketchbook uh from when I was uh super excited by a website I'd found around graffiti from year five, six, and seven where I was sketching most nights a week or whatever. Um, I was drawing from, you know, pre- primary, year one, like my mom's got a book of all my drawings. Um, but then I was, yeah, lit up by by the idea of of letters when I was in like year year six. And then, um, and I was drawing everything at that stage, but I was kind of, yeah, that's where that's where it went. And then, um, year nine started with spray paint. 14, >> right? And when you started spray painting at 14, is that the cliche you were tagging [ __ ] illegally or? >> H, a bit of both. like a lot of both. But it was like I didn't really um ever want to and this is going to um sound like I'm trying to like validate while I was doing it. Like I didn't really want to vandalize anything, man. I just wanted to paint big colorful things that might [laughter] that sounds like that like what I mean is like I grew up in Spearwood. There were so many abandoned areas, man. And I used to go to them and they were already painted and I'm like that looks [ __ ] I can do something better than that. So I wanted to know how that was happening and and then it also that that thing of being something that was hidden or whatever. I was attuned to that. And I wanted to understand why that was happening. So that was probably why I was drawn down that that uh the dark arts because at the time um it was exciting. So I just started >> Do you have any um are you influenced by anyone like over east overseas that in the graffiti scene? >> Um yeah, heaps. I think like in Perth I was always influenced a lot by a lot of the older graffiti scene here cuz that's what you're growing up looking at on the line. So like the fra line, I was I was always influenced by a lot of the riders that were painting along the line. Um and then when I started going over east, uh there was yeah like the DTS crew which is um like a lot of your Brisbane riders are really good. And then Perth we had like 21st century crew which is incredible. Uh and a lot of the guys from that crew, AM crew which is Yeah. So all these different kind of crews that had certain riders in it that I was really inspired by. You'd kind of follow like they'd have uh Tumblr and they'd be releasing where their crew is going crew or something or um and then there was like break and and those guys from Melbourne and Baylor and everything. So you you'd start to kind of uh just be intrigued by their painting here. And then, you know, to give you an example, one of the Brisbane riders when I finished up uni, I'd followed him from like Tumblr and Instagram from when I was a lot younger and I was in Hanoi and I was driving around on a scooter and this when I was 22 and I was like, man, I know I know that Rolodor has just been done. I wonder if he's in town. Found the guy, messaged him, met up with him for burgers at night and now we're still mates now when I was spending a week together and just painting hard out. But it was that same sort of thing. I was kind of um navigating, you know, those crossovers and I saw that there was painting different state but both from Oz and >> um >> so you you were you were doing that and you were at uni at the time. That's awesome. And and then how did you start to um transition into getting paid work? What was your first paid gig like? >> I got 300 bucks. 100 of it was spent on paint. >> Mhm. >> I gave >> So you reinvested your first bit of cash back into the business. >> Back into the business, mate. and I did it with one one of the boys. So, we got 100 bucks each and I paid for the bottle of Jack Daniels that night. >> Nice. >> Because we were like celebrating like, "Mate, we've done it. We've done it." >> So, how did you get the gig? >> Uh, she was my mom's hairdresser down Coogi Plaza. Shout outs Amanda. >> Um, I've actually asked her for the photos since then. Uh, I don't know how old we were. >> We were young, man. Um, 17. I don't know. 17. Um, but yeah, so that that was kind of how it started. And then and then again like once once you start getting like going back to what I said I didn't really care around what I uh vandalizing certain things and it kind of went full circle where I started to get offered more and more paint jobs on bigger public walls. So I was like well this is sick I don't need to run anymore >> and just paint and meet them. And >> now what about the business side of things? Cuz I know that for a fact that a lot of creators most creators are terrible business people. >> They just want to create. >> Fair enough. >> Yeah. So, where did you start to learn, okay, I need to get an ABN and all that [ __ ] >> Um, like my family is more a lot more orientated that way than the graffiti side. I was the outlier. They're all business. So, that that side of things was what I'm really grateful for and that's what I suppose I'm fortunate enough now to kind of always have someone in my ear. Like a lot of my mates have have really successful businesses. So, they're always like, "Man, are you doing this?" Or, "Man, do you have a credit card?" Um, nice. >> So, yeah. So, that that sort of thing there kind of fell into place. But that definitely has been or it is the the hard part cuz you don't want to do that. You just want to paint more. But the more that I've pumped the brakes on the painting and and and taken time to work on the processes, then yeah, it just builds out more revenue over time. >> Nice. Nice. What's uh what's been your uh Okay, so let's continue on. So, you're now in your late 20s. >> Yes. >> You're getting gigs left, right, and center. Uh are you comfortable sharing your average uh gig price or >> Yeah, I can Yeah, I can talk a bit about that. Anyways, like now you just charge per square meter. At the time I was getting handed lump prices at like, you know, 5 to 10 grand. >> Far out. >> Um a wall or >> 5 to 10 grand to tag a wall. >> Yeah. Well, at that point I'm not tagging. So I'm now I'm now, you know, um >> trying to stir you up. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Um >> 5 to 10 grand to make a piece of art. >> There we go. That's the one >> on a wall. >> Um but now I was starting to get handed margins again. I was like, "Well, this is this is sick." I didn't know. And that the first time I ever got handed a margin that looked like that, it was like seven grand, for example. And it was because of a co budget that wasn't getting spent in Melbourne was now getting spent by brands in Perth. So I was getting called from marketing companies over east to paint murals for like one was for Hendricks Gin and one was for YouTube. At the time, I thought it was the most exciting thing ever. Really, they didn't give a [ __ ] about the artwork at all. And it was just marketing dollars that they had to spend and they were able to use that through art. >> Take that money. And then I was using that and the paint from that to then just go and paint pieces anyways >> and buy Jack Daniels. >> Uh and buy Jack Daniels. [laughter] Um I hate Jack Daniels. Um yeah. So, uh that's kind of when I was like, well, this could this could work if I can kind of tap that. And and that's what the biggest thing is what you're going back to around creatives is um you need to take the L on how creative you can be with certain jobs if you want to make that ma baby. Um because you you need to be able to balance between okay this is work and we're going to install this branding campaign for a company but as a result then we can do x amount of fun [ __ ] Um, and and a lot of the people that I paint with that haven't made it out, they by choice, they say that they would rather have a job and use that money to paint because that job doesn't crush or kill on their creative side. Whereas, I choose to be creative all the time. And my belief is those jobs like installing a campaign mural builds my skills to then be more creative over here. And over time, I'm going to become a better painter than you because you paint less cuz you're working. And then when we go painting together, I'm going to light you up. That's that that's how I try and >> that's gold, man. >> That's how I think of it. >> And that's what I that's what I believe in, too. If you can't if you want to be creative, you won't be able to be your best creative cuz you can't put as much time in it as you as you wish you can. If you get to create for a job, you're not [snorts] working. >> You're just honing your craft every single day and getting paid to do it. What a great deal. >> The best, isn't it? >> What a great deal. Yeah. And then if you've made that choice or you have some days it might suck ass for 20 minutes, not long. >> Yeah. >> But then you can delegate it. Like the business side of things you can delegate. So my wife, she's an interior designer and she's >> how beautiful it is in here. >> Right. She's made this set >> and she wants to teach people how to sketch. >> Yeah. >> Right. She loves the freehand sketching [ __ ] She's so good at it, >> but she doesn't want to do the business side. And I'm like, right, I've learned that side. >> Yeah. I I I don't want to teach people how to create. I don't I think it's too subjective. You either can create or you haven't found creative that you're really good at yet. >> Yeah. >> That's it. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And if you're already like >> and you need you need to find that yourself like what you're saying about teacher create that you're not going to do that for them. >> There's kids out there saying Sev I want to become a photographer like you. Sev I want to do this and this and this. I'm like good. Go do it. Go do it for a while. Tell me how you feel after. Because I've noticed, and this is a topic I really wanted to cover with you, when you're creating the love of it, it's art, >> but when you start getting commissions >> or getting asked to do it as a job, >> it becomes a job. How do you nurture that creative versus it's now a job? Because you're going to paint a mural. How do you protect it so that they're not going to come back to you and go, "Oh, we don't like that. Can you do it like this?" Because me as a photographer, I'm going to bring my best skill set and my vibe. >> There's no redoss. >> With videography, it's a bit different cuz they're like, "Oh, we didn't >> think like that." I hate that. >> And I never wanted to create for money. I started my Tik Tok account 10 years ago and um oh [ __ ] 11 years ago this year. I did it because I wanted to put stuff somewhere so the students can see the photos. >> Yeah. Okay. That's >> that's why I did it. But then people started following me and then whatever whatever and then eventually the Instagram stories came out. I was like someone said to me, Sev, you should do some Instagram stories about yourself. I did. I'm like hey guys I'm out here wherever this is. And then I had 120 people rock up to one meet up once. >> I see. >> I did sees tours around in 2018. >> And I was like, [ __ ] And then that evolved into portraits, which evolved into weddings, which evolved into paid work, which evolved in me to go, I hate this. >> Not because of burnout or anything, but >> I've always I I love birding. I want to get my big 600 mm lens. >> Yeah. >> When I can afford it. It's 15 grand. And I just want to prop up on the Canning Highway Bridge >> and just take a photo of that pelican on that on the you know the post. >> That's what you want to do. >> And and it's just going to be the eyeball right there and but I'm going to be like 50 m away, right? >> Yeah. >> That's all I want to do. >> Have you done that? Have you done it yet? >> No. Yes. >> No. >> So mine is I'd always said that I only want to paint. >> Sorry. I only want to work enough to be able to paint one piece a week. What? One day a week where I get to work on what I do. >> Am I there yet? No, but once a week now I get about 3 hours sometimes and and that's where I think um the development of of this content angle and and what you were saying link it back to what you were saying around job and art in terms of one being the creative and one being just the mural that you provide for a client is like even the mural I provide to the client I find that hour or three hours on that job where I can be overly overly creative to create a piece of content a video or whatever cuz to me it's still telling a story there's a narrative which is what yeah um that I bloody love and a lot of the time now it's that funny 15 seconds that I love more than the whole week and it's that that creates more work and now I'm getting clients come to me that are commercial clients and they'll say also um can can you quote this or whatever and they'll say oh so what's the go with uh the content around that when when we like so when you post it are you going to do like a video or how's that going to work and I can see they've just watched my [ __ ] and they want me they want to use my and I'm like oh well actually if you want to do that now so I can see that's becoming an avenue too. And that's just based on the fact that they're just seeing the the fun [ __ ] and they're like they want to be a part of that cuz which is what you were saying. Yeah. Which is what Yeah. Which is why people love you. >> I got asked to um do a wedding. >> So big we're like missing it but stretch. >> I got asked to do a wedding and they asked me Sev, we want to have we want to be married in October of this year. >> And I said cool which specific date? They're like well there's four weekends in this October. uh you tell us which weekend you're available. And I was like, wo, >> that's sick. So based on my specific >> availability, that's going to be your anniversary for the rest of your marriage. >> Wow. And all four weekends I was available. So I was like, do I get to pick and choose or do I let them choose? >> I might go down south again. [laughter] >> And and they hired me before the venue. >> Okay. So they you were first. We get married. Let's get Se on board. then we'll build out, then we'll build out. >> But I also did a market research. I was like, "Okay, so why did you choose me?" They're like, "You're a vibe." I'm like, "Do you like my photos?" Like, "Yeah, we like your photos, but you're a vibe." >> So, the art became the secondary. >> It was me who they wanted. And this is what creators miss out on if they don't market properly. If they brand themselves >> them as the personality, >> then that's that's the big one. It's it's not a mural. It's >> it's Adam. Yeah, >> we got we got Adam to make this. No [ __ ] way. >> When I went down the aisle before the bride came down at most of these weddings post the Tik Tok era. No, no, >> no. I would go down to go see the groom and I had my signature um my you know the the lint roller. >> Probably should use it today. >> Uh I would go up and then I' I'd just do like a final touchup of him like just a little bit. And everyone's like whoa. But they're not just looking at that. They're like, "What the [ __ ] It's Sev. Holy [ __ ] it's Sev." >> I've kind of like like taken over the wedding [laughter] a little bit. >> It's like hiring Maroon 5 to be a band at the reception. It's like we got Sev, right? They didn't really >> They're not really phased as much about the photos, >> but they got them. They loved them, but they forever they're like, "We had Sev." Oh, no way. >> Right. So, you got like Banksy, right? M >> Banksy I I read about him all the time and like there's all these marketing things and all that and how he did that thing in New York where he popped them up for $60 each and everybody knew it was the originals and then that one that auctioned it like ripped and all this [ __ ] >> that's like everybody wants to become Bangsy now, >> right? But he's like an outlier. >> What does what does Adam look like in in in your legacy? This is kind of towards the end of this uh podcast question, but I'm going to come back a little bit. But while it's on top of my mind, where do you want to see your art go next? >> You shouldn't uh relate you take inspiration from the past, but you shouldn't relate yourself to their outcomes. And I think that ours is we're in this era where we can't predict what the next few years are going to look like, but we can jump in as much as we can to to be in the hot seat when it when it launches. What I mean by that is is I'm not like Banksy in the fact that um the installation side of things that he did, I'm not doing, right? But the application that I make towards building out a sick idea around content and maybe that has three parts to it and this person in it and as a result it ends with a final painting and I'm I'm selling that and there's this big ploy that gets everyone involved that although you can't link that in any way to being as genius as Banksy is something that I see now as being really amazing and an opportunity. So it's not like a definite man what am I going to look like or what's my legacy going to look like. It's like I'm just going to keep pushing the the goalpost as hard as I can every day with any creative idea. I'm just going to triple down on it and get involved. Whoever I I'm happy to go out on a whim and ask this person, man, you want to get in this idea, whatever. Because as a result, I'm looking for those needle in a haststack opportunities where I can create things that are remembered like Banksy. >> Yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? That's that's what I'm looking for. I'm and I think that the only way we can do that, like you said, is by doubling down and as a part of then painting some [ __ ] campaign mural sometimes. It's still another opportunity and me either meeting or building the relationship to build out this grandeur idea that's coming. >> The burning question and apologies for everybody at home uh listening. I haven't done this in chronological order, but the burning question is >> when it came time to go from 6 as a teacher, which means uh 60% workload >> to zero to finally take the the the leap. >> Uh you obviously handed in your notice how how far in advance? >> I tried quitting in January. I finished up in August. >> Okay. >> So I then quit in um June, July. >> Yeah. Um, and actually thinking about it now, it has been three years. I was seeing my now partner. We obviously we've been together three and a half years. So, we were just getting together now. We have a baby together now. >> So, at the time when you were leaving, >> what were your financials situation like in terms of savings, debt, all of that? >> Uh, it was before interest rates had skyrocketed. So, I was paying 600 bucks a month on my Oh, not even 500 bucks a month on my mortgage and I had a housemate. So, I was only paying what I would pay if I was renting. >> Nice. >> Uh, I owned my car and I paid I had a plan for my phone. >> And you had savings? >> And I had savings, >> right? >> Yeah. And and I went and smoked that savings. How's this? I had savings. When I finished, I went to Europe, smoked all of it, and then got a tax bill when I got home for 10 grand >> and then started with like 5k. >> And I was like, that's killer. I just got to work harder. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Back against the wall. >> That's fine. >> Yeah. >> There you go. >> Yeah. So, I actually No, not not in the I left thinking, yep, killer. Big summer. Had saved I think I'd saved like I don't know 30k, 40k. And then by the time it ticked over, that was August. By the time it hit January, I owed 10 and had I don't know 10 in my account. It's good. Rock and roll. >> Now you're on top of the taxes. >> Yeah. >> Very on top of the taxes. >> Yeah. Now you got to be. >> Yeah. >> Bass is sorted. >> Yeah. I just pay account now. I shouldn't I'm late. That's why I'm not Yeah. I just pay an accountant to do it all. Um >> Tell me about your last day at school. >> Do you remember it? >> Teaching or or student? >> Teaching. >> Yeah. Um yeah, I do. Uh it was a weird one. I had the kids at an unsettled time where we were really low staffing wise, man. Like pretty critical. >> I wasn't able to tell the kids I was leaving. And then the second last day they were all found out and I'd been with them for 5 years. >> Made me a bit uh resentful in a way because I was like devo that I couldn't tell them. I wanted to tell them and celebrate. And then I felt hard done by because I had kids on the last day going oh are you leaving? And I told these kids for 5 years. So it wasn't as um bit anticlimatical I think. >> But the the most amazing thing was I got to go back uh I went to their uh so I went to the ball for the year 12s that year and then I went to their graduation and then the following year I went to my my main group of kids students graduation and I spoke at at their graduation and everything else and yeah that was that was killer. >> Nice. >> Yeah. Yeah. But my boss the year before said a better speech than me. So a bit upset about >> Yeah. Unfortunately, I didn't have a ceremonial finish cuz uh I left quietly into the night in 2019 >> and it was a sbatical kind of so it's like a let's see what happens >> and I wasn't >> in it long enough to you know have my >> statue or whatever >> and but I remember like I think it was like 13th of December 2020 >> there was one more half week to go but I just decided to take a week off because It's like it's Christmas. Who cares? Co. >> You're done, man. You're also done. You're done, aren't you? You >> And to be honest, halfway through that year, I was keen on leaving anyway because I booked out the rest of the next year of work. I was swimming in cash. I was like, >> "How were you booking them? What you obviously Social Media Guru at the time, but what were you using? Were you using ads or were you using >> It was It was a lot of different strategies um that I'd picked up. So, there was a thing called OneFlare originally. So, one flare is this uh this quoting kind of thing >> like Fiverr. >> No, not Fiverr kind of but different. So, what you do is uh the the person looking for the the client or the the trady or whatever the service, >> they would put in their details saying, "Hey, I'm looking for this. I'm in this area. Here's my budget." >> And then it would ping out the people who had those specific metrics who are who would more likely accept it. But then you'd get the notification as well as your competitors in that same space. And the first three to to submit a quote that would get the details. So you couldn't call the quote, but the credits to quote were like 15 20 credits was like 15 20 bucks. >> Okay. >> And you could top up the credits with money. So I had $500 credit >> and I'd blown $480 of them in the first run cuz I' like finding out. So I was a last credit. I was like, "Oh, this last one." And I got it. And it was a $500 photo job in [ __ ] Jurian Bay. >> Oh, serious in the Yeah. >> In in the thing. And it was like a 4hour turnaround trip for 45minut photography session. 500 bucks. But I was like, "All right, I've made my money back. Let's kick on." And then that started flowing. But then I realized that that specific one flare service was only really for people with a budget of maximum two grand. I had my obviously my biggest moment when you said I was a wedding photographer. I got two bookings from that video. So that was the big one. I got 45% of my leads from Tik Tok organically. And then the other tactic I had was on Facebook groups. So I joined all of the Facebook groups where I reckon the engaged girls were in and I would just talk to them on there. >> Yeah. >> Talk to >> I've heard this man even with painting as well. People join like community groups and that and then just say we're coming here. >> Yeah. >> One of my one of my proteges that I was mentoring he was uh uh he was up and coming at the time when he was 17 18. He went into a Facebook group like motivated from my idea. Uh he would go and join uh high school ball dress for sale groups. >> That's good. >> And he would >> he's a man photos that he saw of the dresses that cuz they're all [ __ ] same dresses. >> And he goes, "Oh, that's an awesome one. Here's a photo of one I took at the ball the other week at Kings Park." >> Oh, >> cleaned up cleaned up more clients. Right. And then so it was and I teach this in my marketing classes in my marketing workshops but >> organic was Tik Tok uh outreach cold outreach was Facebook groups cuz that's technically called outreach but I'd also answer questions in the in those chats as well as videos >> but then I'd also farm their questions as content organically so they kind of like work both ways. And then I never ran ads because the one time I tried, I found this random ads dude, gave him five grand, he got me nothing. That was so I hated ads since then. Now I love them cuz I found someone else decent. >> He sponsors this podcast. And um the fourth way was physical outreach. So in the field >> and we had uh exhibitions like at the exhibition center or Claremont showgrounds and it just comes to me. This is a creative, so marketing and creative. >> I was like, what if I call up the organizer a month in advance and ask her if she needed a photographer to cover the event and just do it for free? She like, why would she say no? Say no. So it happened. She said yes. I went in there and I said to her, "One condition, I can send the photos individually to the people I take." She's like, "Yeah, less work for me." Sick. walked around, had the most fun, massive email list of all the brides to be. Whilst all my competitors were paying event, >> like a wedding expo. >> Oh, at a wedding expo. >> So, all my wedding photographer competitors were paying $500 each to set up a booth to stand in all day going, >> you've just Yeah, you just undercut them all. >> And then there's me going take a photo. I was taking a photo of all of them and giving them their photos. And anyway, I get get there at night and get home at night and flick them all all the brides with the photograph with the cuz I had to set up the list >> and my signature said wedding photographer. I booked out from that. >> Yeah. Crazy. >> It was like two years later because I was booked out. Oh, another expo coming up. I don't need to be there, but I'm going to go for fun. >> So, I didn't bring any cameras. I just brought my microphone cuz I was doing interviews. >> Red mic. >> Yeah, the red mic. >> No, baby. >> And I'd go up to people and it was awesome because I was just put on my story. I interviewed everybody. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Unfortunately, some people got jealous and saw my tactics even though I wasn't really there for myself at all. >> Yeah. >> And they said to the organizer that I was selling interviews for $50 each. >> And I was like, "Okay, >> that's fucked." And then I was wearing my mates DJ t-shirt. So they thought I was spruing every >> night the original coordinator. She goes, "So you're no longer welcome to these events. You're banned." I was like, "Why?" >> Oh, serious. >> Why? >> Friend, that's just that's politics, man. >> I pleaded my case and she goes, >> I pleaded it. I would have said, "No worries." >> Yeah. No, I said no worries. But in my head, I was like, I understand where you're coming from because you have your your reputation like it's me or or a lot of other people. I get it. I get it. So, no hate to her. Those >> they're taking Yeah. You're taking her equity off the table because they're going to >> The funny thing is I've have not seen anyone do it since. Like, there have been some absolute hustlers in the ad space who have dominated like this guy um Bailey here. He's crushing in in the ad space and organic. >> And now I'm seeing ads for how to do wedding photography ads and book out 30, 40, 50k months. I was like, >> I was doing that organically, bro. >> You know how I was called, you know, you're talking about cold calling? >> Yeah. When I was finished up teaching every like lunch and recess and that man, I would sit there, find a big creative company in like I looked up basically the main cities in the world that had, you know, an arts hub or whatever >> and then we would just look up their galleries and then would go to who their following because it would be less people 100. Then I would just sit there at lunch or recess, go through every follower until I found one of the management team that had a tiny following that was a part of that gallery and then would just message them directly. And then I was going and painting overseas and everything else. people like how you getting jobs here and I'll be like just spend an hour just not being lazy and just looking for that looking for that way the same way you were talking about creating those opportunities to chat to someone and then once you're a person and you're not a number then yeah >> if you want it badly enough and and you're creative enough to talk to the people >> like I I wouldn't mind doing one Italy wedding a year I love Italy >> and how do you do that well you speak to the people there that can refer you >> or you find out who wants wants to get married in Italy but wants an Australian photographer who has the budget to fly them over and then charge him 20 grand but that 20 grand covers me, my wife and my daughter >> and the accommodation that's covered and then spending money and it's a day's work. >> What a tradeoff. >> And yeah, free holiday, you're working, everything's paid for like >> Yeah, >> I um I just got back from Saudi Arabia a Fortnite ago. >> Nice. How'd you get the gig? a guy I'm mates with um Timbo uh Park Life who lives in Thailand. His mate, this is a convoluted story. I'll say quick version. His mate owns Gym Nation. They're massive in Dubai. Gyms are a weird place over in the UAE. Um and he's opening gyms in Riyad. I saw he put on his story and he had people painting there. Now, I didn't even know that there was much graffiti going on in in the Gulf. And um when I messaged him, he said, "Man, you want to get your work in Riad City. There's so much money there." So I just started running a a terrible ad in Riad, one ad um for 2 weeks. And then I got a message from some woman that was an arts teacher that through the ad clicked on my page and saw that I taught modules around graph and sent me a message and said, "Hey, Adam, would you come to Saudi Arabia from these dates?" This was in December and this when I was having my son. I was like, it's like late January. And I was like, "Is this a hack?" I was like, "Uh, yeah, I'll come." And bang, she sent over my flights, my itinerary, everything else. And then flew to Saudi just from a conversation with another bloke that there's money in Riad. >> Yeah. >> Um, but yeah, it it was the same sort of thing. It was that organic convers. I just started thinking, okay, how are we going to get there? What are we going to push? And then every person that was coming through that was messaging me off this ad. Um, and I knew that I knew that the ad that I was running would definitely appeal to the people in Riad because I was I was painting rugs and the market for it there there's so much wealth so I knew that someone was going to buy it. >> Yeah, that's crazy. So then going back to after you finished school um you starting to get gigs. Has there been any setbacks or major problems since? >> No. >> Cool. a few like my scissor lift keep getting ram sacked [ __ ] like that small onsite issues. >> Yeah. >> Uh but no in terms of um n now it's more so around how do you grow? >> I've only got x amount of hours just become a father like yourself and now it's okay my processes are falling short. So the the last month has been every night okay what are we doing to build out workflows? Who are we hiring? What's going on to start to build? I I don't I can't do admin every night. Um, so I'm doing my admin on the weekend. Liv was doing my admin. Now she can't. She's with the little man. So now it's about, okay, I need admin stuff twice a week. Um, I've just hired an editor to do a few hours a day. Try and get them grow them out and just stuff like that because the process was just starting to fall off with the the at the rate that I want to grow in terms of how much social media I can get out every day and stuff like that, >> right? >> Um, that's the only complicated. >> Yeah. I mean, your your page is pretty pretty impressive and obviously the murals. I saw the cat that you did, man. That's my favorite that I saw. Thanks. >> It was a It was a brief scroll. Uh cuz I'm trying to avoid like keep my screen time down time. >> But I saw that um >> cat. I was like far out. That looks >> That why I was fanboying real Thank you, man. And I don't mean to cut you off, but that's why I was fanboying you when I saw you IG. >> Um and just to give the the audience a bit of context, I saw Sevs in IG. I was just looking up um and I as soon as we walked around the aisle I said I live that serves pigs I was she was like who the [ __ ] is that and I was and I was like man same background as me he was a teacher and now he does content and marketing whatever else I was like oh if we if we dummy around this end here I'm definitely going to say hello to him and she was like she was like yeah [laughter] no dramas then I didn't even know where we were going and then she was like I want a drink and luckily it was at fridge and I was and then when we knew I was like hey Sams how are you um >> so good it was because yeah um I just knew of your story and was and was frothing and I I knew that you'd um Yeah. You >> man, something's there's going to be [ __ ] that's going to come out of this. Like already we're talking here >> and uh I I'm excited because like your story about how you got flown out there >> to the UAE. I'm just like, >> man, I need to hustle more because there's every opportunity I can leverage all of my stuff. Yeah, >> I've just been struggling for the last few years because I've been in a kind of a personal rebrand cuz I've always been in it for the kids. I still am, >> but I've never had anything to sell from my personal brand. >> It's always been by association people go, "Oh, you're Sev. >> Oh, you got this business. We're going to hire you." It was never directly from the brand that I would advertise. It was just like, "Oh, you're that guy, too. Oh, sick." >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> And so, that's why like this business works as well. It's leveraged by my personal brand >> and all the rest. Uh, and people ask to teach like they want me to teach them how to do that. I was like, >> are you extroverted enough and do you have any social anxiety? >> Yeah. >> If they're too introverted and they have social anxiety. >> Yeah. And we all it's it's all part of it. But >> I mean, if your personal brand is introverted and social anxiety, >> lean into that >> [ __ ] weird, man. >> But but a lot of a lot of influencers actually are closet introverts. Yeah, >> they're like seriously they've get they get anxiety. They all flag themselves with ADHD. And I'm just like, mate, you're just distracted by [ __ ] and you're worried about fear of judgment. You you're fine. >> And then I come out and I'm like, I don't give a [ __ ] >> I want to take every opportunity as long as it's good. M >> and then I get big opportunities that I can't speak about on camera cuz I've got NDAs, but I've got them and I'm like, "Wow, that is that is something I didn't even think was possible right now." And to the brands that I work with under the table, not under the table, but secretly, it's uh it's a journey that only happens if you put yourself out there. >> 100%. >> So, you put yourself out there >> and it is nerve-racking, man. Sometimes you got to build that breath as well. Naturally, I'm extroverted, but sometimes, man, I don't really feel like it. And it's not to the point where I'll be rude. Like, if I see someone near me and that and I'm having a quiet day, it's not introverted to a point where I'm It's like, "Hey, man. How are you? I'm just cook man. I'm I'm sp I'll catch up with you." It's not like a awkward like I'm being awkward. It's like I know that I'm being awkward cuz I'm tired. And I'll just say, "Fuck, I feel off, man. How are you? What's going on?" You know what I mean? Like there's a bit of that. My um my biggest thing though was when the kids would ask me for a photo and I'd ask them why do you like my content and they say cuz you're funny or I like your content. I was like which which content specifically? They couldn't give me an answer. It was it took me back to, you know, school where like the popular kids were popular and they just were popular. Everybody idolized them. I wasn't the popular kid. I was a nerd >> even though I played footy. But now I'm like, I got the popularity and people only associate to take a photo with you because of the popularity. There's no breadth, there's no depth, there's nothing. And I hated I hate that. And I want the kids to message me saying, "Sev, you changed my life because you did this thing." And I get a message every day from a kid >> saying, "Sev, I want to do this. How do I do it?" >> And that's now what I've got as a product on my or a service on my >> page. you you've broken out and the Yeah. And they're trying to navigate a world that they don't understand. So, >> but I've got a I finally have something to sell and I'm building a school, which is, you know, the >> Alexi school thing. >> Yeah. >> And >> Oh, you're building a school? >> Yeah. >> Yes. Okay. >> So, it's going to be a stage stage one escape the 9 to5. It's going to be applicable to teachers and anyone who hates their >> uh employment job. Yep. >> And wants to pivot. and the stage two are business owners already who want to go to the next level. So, >> um >> can I ask what's a monthly subscription on there? >> So, I'm trying to figure out the pricing. Uh a few of my mates, they've got big schools already and they've got >> 500 to,000 members and they're charging 200 USD each. >> What a month. >> Yeah. And I'm like out, man. >> Far out. That's awesome. >> They're crushing. >> But >> you don't even need to do that, man. >> But their students are getting results. >> Okay. So they're getting their ROI is really good, net positive. >> So I'm thinking something between 50 60 bucks a month, but I can only charge it if people are taking action. And if they don't take action, don't join the group. >> Yeah. >> Right. But there's going to be six different modules. I won't say them all off by heart, but it's literally it's not a it's not a course. It's literally whatever your problem is, one of these six modules will solve it for you. >> Yeah. >> And I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible. >> Yeah. >> And then if it's still too complex, they're going to ask me questions >> and then I'll answer in video that will evolve the thing. Then the other aspect of the school community I'm going to have is uh >> if there's a specific problem that they don't want to solve. So they come in, this is school, they watch the modules or they look at the the the templates or the exercises that help them unblock their whatever it is the bottleneck. If they still don't want to do it themselves, then I introduce them to people that they can pay to do it for them. >> Yeah. >> So for example, I'm sick of making content for other people. >> The ones there's a few people that I love making content for cuz they just give me full creative reign and it works. But there's other people that just most people are just pain in the ass. They're just like, I want it like this. And I'm like, it's not going to work. But okay, I'm going to make it for you >> and it doesn't work. And I have no creativity whatsoever with it. >> And you're paying me for a service that I know is going to work. And then you're telling me how to That's where that creative block comes in. That's >> [ __ ] So, I don't want to do that anymore. But I have people who love doing that and live and breathe going, "Yep, no problem." >> Yeah, >> absolutely. They're kind of like that hybrid between employee and employer. >> Um, >> but you won't need to work with them anyways because that wingmanship that I want to build, >> it's like I love the idea of someone coming to me saying have a problem. I was like gone. >> I need a mural for my job, for my workplace. It's just something's missing there and I just can't find the right person. Everyone's just like, you know, bad. I was like, >> have you met Adam? you know, and then you get the gig, I get the satisfaction that I got you work, and then you're going to do a good job cuz your shit's cool, >> and they're going to be like, "Whoa, thank you, Seb." I'm like, "No, no, no, Adam's work." >> But I'm trying to now figure out how to navigate that to make money from it, right? How do I make money to be the connector, you know, Shaw Shank Redemption? >> Can I offer you something that I've been thinking about? >> Go on. >> Uh, I I make modules around painting. Um, and once they're there and you buy access to them, you get all the modules. So, I don't have anything like that, but I've thought about the school side of things. And I've always thought, um, and you can, this is what I reckon would be amazing if I was buying your school. You have these connections that I don't have. I can't message the same person you can message and ask them the questions I want. They're not going to reply. So, you the people that are in the school are submitting you questions. you can say in a fortnight's time we're having an exclusive like podcast where you can either jump in the chat and write your messages like whatever and then as a result you film that and release it to them and then a years later you can release it through your podcast or does that but the same sort of thing is like I've always thought that like if I made an art community or whatever else >> um the reason why I want the connection with this artist is cuz they know this and I would love to meet or have a chat to them and and you're that that pillar in the same way and your communication is through the roof. So like I would love to know that if I was in your community like on a Monday night you're going to be answering questions but also your mate's going to jump in who also does this and then it's just a you know round robin. >> Yeah. So [snorts] that's the third aspect. So the two stages the wingmanship and then that third aspect of uh we're going to call it like a town hall. >> Yeah. >> Every week there's going to be a 90inute Q&A. >> Y >> whether it's just me or a guest speaker coming in um that has crushed it. Like I know some of the big heavy hitters in the uh in the space like I know Simon Squib, you know, the guy that comes up to people, what's your dream? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> He's been on the podcast. >> Okay. >> And Tom Nosk, another guy who's incredible creative who helps creators launch their product. >> Yeah. >> Online. >> Yeah. >> Um he's these people are incredible. >> Yeah. And then got Brandon Willington, the where you guy, the guy that um >> Ah, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. We're going to do a PO like we're we're good mates and we're overdue for a podcast but >> yeah he's crushing it. >> Yeah, he's crushing it. He's he's crazy good and and just these people in these specific areas that are just they are the best at what they do but they're so locked in that no one knows or they haven't built a personal brand cuz they're just locked in. >> And I've got I've done it the other way around. I've done the personal brand first and then now I'm kind of like not having an identity crisis, but I'm like, who am I? What is my what is my thing that I can monetize that I can just absolutely go ham with? >> Um I don't want it to be my artistic creative. I've decided >> my photography um you know Tom from MySpace. >> Tom from MySpace. Is that Tom? Tom Tom like the guy the man, right? He I think it's Tom Anderson his name is. >> Okay. >> Um when he exited MySpace, he sold it for like $560 million. >> He went and just traveled and took photos. >> No algorithms, no no meetings or anything for like for a long time. You go on his Instagram page, it's incredible. >> And I'm like that that and he would share it. He wouldn't give a [ __ ] Now he's come back and slowly starting to look some venture capital stuff, >> but like the ability to unlock that, you know, >> that's cool, man. And right now my uh creative outlet or my thinking outside of this space out there is Brazilian jiu-jitsu. >> Yeah, I've seen I saw your Instagram. >> That that is like gyms around the world are asking me to come come visit when I'm I'm in town. They don't obviously have the budget to fly me over, >> but man, like far out. What an opportunity. >> Does that give you that new uh like you feel like you're starting again, which is super super exciting. >> That's that's what's cool. Hey, >> that's like I'm fresh air sort of. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what's Yeah. And it's always it's always very humbling having a new skill that you need to learn. It's the same what you hear so many people speak about that. But yeah, it's um it's why I try and like train as much as I can. Obviously, the moment with a with a newborn is hard, but to try and do something really hard, I'll try and do a hectic leg session on a Sunday just so it [ __ ] me up. So, I'm like, Monday's [laughter] Monday's easy, you know what I mean? >> Um, >> I got to ask you about uh the creative marketing side of your business cuz I have a lot of creatives asking me, Sev, I'm an artist. I do great work. And I look at it, I'm like, absolutely you do. They're like, but I'm not getting enough business. How can I do better? What's your creative process when it comes to marketing your creative art to get more customers? >> Trial and error. They're probably saying it from a perspective they haven't even tried it themselves. I'm now like 4 and a half years into trying to make a video every day. So, you just naturally have a process where I'm like, as soon as I film a video, man, and I don't film, I document. So, I just film the whole day. End of the day, I sit there at night cooking a barbie quickly. One headphone in multitasking. I'm like, "Yep, that's the hook. Bang. That will go hard. Yep. This this 15 seconds." Um, man, I use everything at the moment, man. I'm literally just editing fast in Tik Tok, talking over it, posting it. When it downloads, put it in the captions app, chuck it. >> So, limit limit the friction. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and like, and the good thing is about Tik Tok as well is I'll post it four times. I don't really I don't use that as my main outlet and it converts on on Instagram. >> So, you wait, what do you mean post it four times? >> I'll try five different four five different hooks on it. Say if I'll like edit the same video quickly in Tik Tok, I'll know that video is going to do really well. But then say if I've filmed all day and I've got three hooks, so I'll post that and then I'll just post it in Tik Tok three more times with a new hook. >> How close together do you post them? >> Straight away while I'm making dinner. >> So you have four of the exact same video up. >> Yeah. >> And how long do you give them before you decide on a winner? >> What? However, like I'll try and if I can do it at breakfast and then at night time I'll post whichever one's trending the hardest on Instagram um or the following. >> Delete the other three >> sometimes. Yeah. >> But if they're all kind of doing all right, I'm like who gives a [ __ ] >> Yeah. That's so good. >> I just leave them up there. And then like also, you know what I do, man? It's like I say I edit a module, it's like 10 minutes. It'll go on Tik Tok. So, I just leave that up completely raw and leave it on there. Then I edit out seven versions of that for Instagram. And then I just post all seven of those on Tik Tok as well. And normally it's the raw unedited one that does really well. >> Bro, you didn't know that. There's someone charging $1,000 for the information you just gave away for free. >> Yeah. Yeah. Come to me, mate. Give me some. No. Um, but yeah, that's Yeah, that's um, yeah, that's kind of the operation I'm running. So, >> that's dope. >> Um, and then whatever. Yeah, the same thing. Whatever. >> Yeah. Do you do trial reels or anything like that? >> No. No. Um, >> cuz that's kind of what you're doing, but you're using TikTok as the trial. >> I kind of know it's going to go. >> Yeah. When you know, you know. But there's sometimes when I'm like, >> sometimes I don't. Yeah, I know. >> You get disappointed and you're like, what the [ __ ] >> Once you pass that disappointment, you realize it's steady growth. >> Yeah. then it's kind of all right. But you get those big big ticket items that um like my biggest ticket items in terms of engagement >> do terribly in terms of converting business. So don't >> Oh yeah, >> I saw you actually say something about that. Top of the funnel. Yeah. Yeah. Top of the funnel, your your lowhanging fruit, your broad audience. >> Yeah. >> Your broad audience aren't your customers. No, it doesn't. >> Yes. there are a a like speckles of people that going to be in that broad audience, but the ratio is going to be like whack. >> Like a million views does not mean you're going to have a million customers. >> If you niche down to a 100 views, >> you're going to have a better like return. >> And like like today, for example, I posted a video um about my client, one of my personal training clients. Um, he posted a video about some knees hurting after the workout. >> Yeah. >> 1,000 views. Terrible. He got a $5,000 client from it. >> Yeah. Crazy. >> That's a win. >> Crazy. Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Most people that have posted a 100,000 view video have got zero dollars. >> Yeah. >> So, >> and if you can mirror that up, and that's what I'm talking about with trial and error. Like, I'll give you an example. Two, two and a half, three years ago, I made a video of my partner, which was a one line drawing. It did really well. I only did that one line drawing because I needed some freedom from painting and I also needed something that felt like a a snapshot show. It was it was something that looked engaging, that felt engaging. So, it was a final art piece, but it also had that feeling. It was viewed. I've been doing that now for 2 and a half years and everyone that I paint with are like, "Man, why the [ __ ] you doing one line?" Like, it shows nothing. But to me, it gave me a feeling because it felt like I could one f the painting up. So, it gave me that kind of feeling that it was raw and organic. And it gave me this feeling that I was creating something for myself. And now 3 years later, I'm now starting to get a lot of messages to create these paintings for people. And it's it's very slow, but at the time it was never for money. It was because it gave me that outlet. And now I've sold two this week for four grand for two. So, it's And they took me a minute 30 each. And it's the first time ever. And I never and but now but that also has they're buying when and how's this the client asked me >> man have you posted the video of the painting yet and I was like no not yet and I was I go I haven't done that yet I wanted to give you the paintings first he goes no no no post the video so he's only so what I'm saying and that's just a trial and error there where I know that the he's been seeing now for 3 years me doing these oneline paintings and now that video is probably what he's going to show everyone that comes into his home and it's that engage. >> That's branding. >> Yeah, >> that's crazy. That's same same story as mine. >> That's awesome, man. >> That's awesome. I had this dream for the last 10 years for my photography, my creative photography. >> Okay. >> And I've always wanted to kind of I'll do this eventually, but I'm trying to figure out how I can re bring back my original Seves Pick stuff where I would release a print. >> Yeah. >> Maximum of 10 prints. They're all signed. They're all numbered, you know, little gold little thing in the corner >> of like this print. I would tell a story. It'd be the content piece like I'm going out and taking a banger >> today. >> It's going to be of this. It's I I'm seeing it. It's going to be sick. >> And people follow the story b and then there it is. And they can screenshot it, make it their wallpaper. Who gives a [ __ ] >> And but then I'm going to be like, you can buy this print, but there's only 10 available. And I'm going to make a website. It's going to have like a little marketplace like you can buy whatever once the 10 are gone. That's it. >> Yeah. >> And then >> can you imagine like >> there'll be hot pockets, man. They'll go like crazy. >> And then eventually there'll be like a like a little black market where people I've got an original SS Pics >> [ __ ] photo of this >> pelican on a lamp with this eyeball. >> Yeah. >> And it's the first >> that's what people want to buy. That's >> yeahve that's that's always been my like if I was to sell anything uh from my photography it would be that the best thing is it's not commission it's what I want >> yeah that's what you me and that's what these oneline drawings for me same thing no one wants no one want them for 3 years >> and like I've got the printing the framing all of that sorted the the colors and I don't even care anymore like if people want to buy it because it's mine right and then sell it sell a a print for a,000 bucks. >> Yeah. >> And then make 10 grand per drop and just do one every month, dude. 120 grand. No worries. >> It's crazy. >> Just for taking photos. But you have to get there. You have to build the brand. >> You have to hone your craft and you have to be a good storyteller to then market your stuff for people to go, >> I've got a I've got a Seves Pics thing. >> And then eventually like you have a little gallery or whatever. Yeah. >> Um, the NFT thing that came out for a moment in time, I thought that was interesting because it's like what if every resale from that again, you get a commission out of it. That was the only thing I liked about NFTTS for that >> rogue idea. So, they're posting the board ape yacht club. I want to put this idea out the world. Maybe someone will do it. Who knows? Um, the worth of the ones that famous people had bought and obviously because they sit on a marketplace, you can probably offer to buy them. So you could like buy Justin Bieber's board ape now for 12 grand. He paid 1.4 million for it. So but when you buy it, you get the rights to it. So I was thinking like what if I bought his B ape and then painted that B ape with a painting of him crying cuz his bought a he is crying and then say I bought this off Justin Bieber for 12 grand. He paid 1.2 million. So just and not Justin Bieber. It was just the one I was looking at but like all these famous people paid. So at some point that what you've just bought was worth that and then just by doing that you will increase the worth of that 10fold anyways. But I was looking at the other day thinking about that. >> Man, I got sucked into that stuff back then. >> I was I was on there trading every morning at 4:00 a.m. before teaching. Get up every morning. >> You were that you were that crypto tragic. >> No, no, no. I'd made a little NFT drop and I was jumping on a live auction house every Monday morning and speaking about it and then and and now one of the guys that's in there, two of the guys that are in there um I still speak to and they riders from over in Melbourne and they were the top dudes in the auction house. They were selling the NFTs every morning for like 1,200 bucks, 800 bucks. I was getting like $84 on the way to teaching man and I was like yes, let's go. Um yeah. So >> yeah, I remember I remember those days, but those days are fortunately be behind us. Who knows what will happen um this time around with all this crypto stuff. I think uh the most the most valuable thing to me when I want to buy art is is this a print or an original? >> Yeah, >> with photos it's obviously going to be a print, but if it's an actual physical handdrawn thing, I want that. I want to see that that that pencil etching like that. >> You're explaining these drawing these oneline drawings I'm doing. I just love to hear that, >> you know. But then also, man, that's what they want. >> But also the mural, the mural is the original one of one that can't really be printed. You can take a photo. >> It's not going anywhere. That's why it's such a It's cool. >> Yeah. Um and um have you seen Yeah. What's your favorite mural? We'll go we'll go to the fast fast questions now. So, quick answers. >> Uh, favorite mural that that you've seen out there. >> Okay, I won't say favorite mural, but I'm obsessed with the slofficial collab that he ripped off Sloan because part of painting is disrupting. It's similar to kind of Banksy in a way where he disrupts the market by ripping off a dude that used to rip off other people's stuff. Doing an illegal release in LA where he said it was an official release and since that he's become one of the biggest artists in the world within two years. >> Crazy. Crazy. What's your favorite uh form of art outside your own >> train? Painting graffiti something to it. Freedom of it. I know it's it's very different to what I do because I paint murals legally. So, it's a complete polar opposite and it's something that I should say that I hate being in the public realm painting murals. Um, but but I just think there's such a selflessness uh sorry, there's such a selfish endeavor that you need to be willing to f up your whole life and give away absolutely everything for your drive and passion of art that I w am going to do. But I incredibly some days think hat off to you because there's these certain dudes, man, that travel the world. They've got nothing. They can't go back to their own countries and it's the polar opposite of what I want to do cuz I'm in bed by 9 watching The Walking Dead. But it is an incredible endeavor that Yeah, it's hectic, man. >> Nice. Nice. This shirt, did you make the shirt? >> This is from the Pilra Kid, which is a brand from the Pilra by um Haley. Uh she's incredible. Uh we did a collab recently. Um but this is not our collab. I just fro this one and it was on the line as I was leaving. >> Chicken >> maybe. It has a chicken. I think it has a rooster on it, but it's got the map of the pillar and I've been spending a bit of time there and doing some stuff with them. And it's crazy this brand particularly around Branding Man, they're they're hectic. Like you go to the Pillbar and every little kid in Karatha Dampia, all they wear is a Pila Kid. Anyone outside of the Pillbar won't know about the brand and she's absolutely crushing it. No personal brand, but does a popup inside Karatha shops, man, near Woolly's and sells out. Um and yeah, so big shout outs to them. Um I've been I've been living in them. >> It looks cool, man. >> It's cool. Hey. Yeah. And it kind of reminds me of like a young, you know, when you see a dad in like a fishing shirt. >> That's what I froth. I like get a lot of looks in it and that, but um yeah, it's it's elite and working in them there. >> How's dad life changed your perspective on life? >> I I was thinking really highly heavily around my coms today and not wanting to swear because in every other interview I've done, I've sworn like a chimney. And um >> I've done well, didn't I? >> And yeah, but my old man would always say, "Don't swear." Unlucky champ. But now I'm a father. I think >> at some point Eli's going to grow up and does he want to hear his dad saying >> [ __ ] you every two seconds. [laughter] Um but yeah no I was just Yeah. And and also um just you just want to be a like you just want to be kind to people because you want him to be the same. >> Just think about it a bit more. Just think when I've been an [ __ ] and I'm like [ __ ] he's going to look at me like I would hate for him to see me like operating like that. So yeah I think about that a bit more. The one thing I've seen in myself is even though complacency isn't your best friend at all, there's absolutely no room for it once you become a father. >> None. >> You've got zero hope. If you have complacency still in your veins, you're doing something wrong. >> Yeah. >> That's my kind of two cents on fatherhood. um perspective on going back to look at the people who haven't had children yet, whether or not they choose to. They have so much more time. >> Oh man, >> so much more freedom. And that's where that complacency can become an a burden without even realizing it. For me, it's like I get up at 4 most days so I can talk to my US, UK, and over East clients or students. If I sleep in, I don't make as much money. [snorts] And man, but man, some days when I sleep in, it's a luxury. >> Ah, >> because I know I've just >> I haven't I I've just spent I I've just lost not lost, but I didn't make the $700 I would have made if I woke up 2 hours earlier. Yeah. >> And that's like you have to go to bed earlier and you have to hope that the MS is clutch with the breastfeeding. >> Yeah. It's changed my perspective on and this is going to upset a lot of men. [laughter] the roles of male men and women and fe the the the self uh women are a lot less selfish than men in their endeavors naturally around their biological makeup and how they have to do x y and zed for a child >> we just >> make content get go out pump it works x y z because they don't know cuz they want it to stay like that >> so I've said it and and I keep it down mate because we want to keep them there you know we want to keep them in the That's like, you know, that's the joke that, but but what I mean is is like, man, I get to take off and I've been working from home the last few days and I see how hard it is for little man doesn't want to sleep. So, I just see he's just yelling all day and I go in there and I do one cycle like I'll give him not yelling all day. He's we're trying a new sleep schedule and and in between that he's just loud and and whatever else and I'm in there trying to settle him and whatnot. I'm thinking, "Fuck this. I want to go back to I want to go to site and start painting, you know?" So, and she's doing that for 24 hours of the day. like I get up and do a few bottles a night and whatnot, but um men we can go oh you're breastfeeding I can't get up so I get extra hours of sleep. Uh men say I'm the uh main bread winner so I'm actually going to take off to work. You you look after little man. So in a way we we have these over time the this historical thing where men must be the bread. But as a result it it naturally the the child needs a woman. >> Yeah. >> Or their mother. But we get uh left in a in a really formidable position in comparison to what both what we're both doing right now. Well, the back end of last year, man, Liv and I, we travel together and she paints with me and she can't do that. And it's at the moment she's like, all I want to do one day is start coming to work and grabbing a paintbrush. So, we're trying to work out, okay, if I've got a job set up, can I stay at home for the day? And she can go to site. So, just just yeah, things like that. >> Love that. Uh, one final question about uh your humanities, your um teaching. What is the one topic in house that you go yeah that's important to learn for every kid >> from a logistical uh point of view what people need is obviously the economic side of things at that point in time it's for a child at that age of development being 16 they are getting taught that they say I was never taught that by my teacher it is being taught um you can't apply that so therefore you cast it out there's no knowledge retention there so I would say that economics would really important but no one gives a [ __ ] about it at that age. Um I think the history of Australia is really important and and our curriculum is shifting around that because we look at we teach our curriculum from 1788. Um we should be teaching it earlier and around Aboriginal history and that would give a lot more enrichment to kids as they grow up. I was lucky that I taught in a really multicultural school, so there wasn't a lot of racism. But just with the online now and and the influx of of US uh impacting our kids, I think it's super important to be teaching Australian history pre-B British colonization just so it gives a bit and and just so it gives some understanding and some love for our nation so that we can all love each other and recognize that, you know, we are Aussie and part of that is our Aboriginal history whether you're Aboriginal or not. That's where we are. That's where we're from. And I think that's really important. >> What is the one subject in house that's like completely like doesn't matter? >> [ __ ] >> All the rest of it, man. All the rest of it. And yeah, like I don't know. I just think so much of it doesn't directly relate to these kids, man. It's just acts at all. Like, do you know what I mean? Like that's why I left because you're just teaching [ __ ] and and they say study history um because it's coming back around. That's true. And you can do that when you're a young adult, but when these kids are 15, 16, they need that hour to be learning life skills. They don't need that hour to be learning about um something World War II. >> Yeah. I've got all the history books about World War II. >> I love it now, man. That's why Yeah, it's cool. But they don't give a [ __ ] >> The Roman Empire. >> Yeah. Yeah. The Black Plague. >> Um Yeah. Um so, Adam, thanks very much for coming in. Is there one piece of advice that you can tell the kids to anyone out there about anything in the world? What would it be? >> Start today. Whatever's going on in your brain, start it. Say it. Say it out loud. If you're feeling um energetic about something, uh see it through. Where should which camera should I look into here? That one. If you've got an idea and and you're thinking about it at night time, put it out to the world. If you're feeling insecure about something, tell it to someone. If you if you've worked up about something, say it. anything you say is halfted and any idea you start you'll see through. But if if you keep it all in here, you're going to cook yourself, mate. And and you deserve more for yourself. >> But yeah, that that's yeah, I think a lot of the time we we're in this world where again around judgment and we and we and we overthink that. Whereas if you just get it out there and go hard on it, double down on it, you'll surprise yourself. >> Love that. Awesome. So where do we reach out to you if we want a mural done at our uh spot? O uh at art bro on anything. Um >> it's in the show notes. Thanks for coming in. >> I will say Sebs, thank you. Um when I saw you in the shops, mate, bit of a fanboy. Your uh journey exceeds mine and the the stuff you've done on TikTok, I I'd heard and seen about it. At the time where you were blowing up on Tik Tok, I didn't have Tik Tok. Um but I actually had a few mates that had told me about you and I had one mate that had said, "You need to speak to Sevs." So, and this was years ago. So, I'm I'm grateful that I saw you in IG the other day. And I think uh and when you're seeing someone in in real life that um you look up to, you should go say hello. So, I I appreciate you and I appreciate your time. >> Appreciate you. Appreciate you. All right, guys. You know what to do. Leave a comment. Leave a review. Five stars only. If it deserves less than five stars, let me know first so I can improve it and then you can give me five stars cuz I like five stars only. Uh, leave a comment in YouTube, Spotify, all of that stuff. You'll be the first. I don't think I've ever gotten a comment, but >> leave a comment. Come on, let's go. >> Yeah. And, uh, yeah, go check out Adam's work, and I'll see you on the next one.