Suzan-Lori Parks's Watch Me Work - A Playwriting Masterclass

Hey everybody, it's five o'clock. Welcome to another session of Watch Me Work, where we talk with you about your creative work and your creative process. I'm SLP. We've been doing this show for like 16 17 years now, for a long time. Uh where we've been getting together with folks to talk with you about your work and your creative process. So what we're going to do, what we always do is we work together for 20 minutes and then um we ask you ask questions about your work and and we talk about your work. So after that 20 minutes, Zoe in the new work development department, please tell us how to get in touch and ask. >> Yeah. Hi everyone and welcome back to watch me work. Happy last watch me work of August and also this is my last watch me work um that I'll be joining and facilitating. So starting next meeting you'll be getting um Amritha Ramen from Newark development who is lovely. Um so after the 20 minute work session if you have a question you would like to ask SLP please do so by click clicking the react button at the bottom of your screen and clicking raise hand. That way we can have a nice queue going and I will call on you to unmute and ask your question. >> Fabulous. Fabulous. Alrighty. Here we go. Got my timer. Here we go. All right. All right. That was the work time and now here's the talk time. Anybody has any questions or thoughts or concerns about their work and their creative process? Come on. And Zoe, tell us how to get in touch. Have you told us how to get in touch already today? >> Uh to ask a question or with me personally? >> No, to ask a question. >> People ask that question at the end. >> Um please uh to ask a question, click the react button at the bottom of your Zoom Zoom screen and click raise hand and that way I can uh know who wants to ask the question first. >> Thank you. Since we're waiting for a question now, so tell so you're going on to bigger and better more beautiful things after today. Um, congratulations. I just want to say that in the front so I don't so I don't uh forget to say it at the end. But you're such a great presence on Watch Me Work. We so appreciate you. Just want to say that. Thank you. Thank you. We love you. We love you. And we will see you around town. Definitely. Definitely. anything you want to tell us about your uh your next adventure if you feel like it. Do you feel >> you don't have to? >> Um it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be amazing. It's going to be wonderful. How about >> Thank you. Thank you SP. Hi Lauren. Please unmute and ask a question. >> Hello. >> Hi everybody. >> Hey everybody. Um >> I just wanted to give uh last week I I found out I have shiggles. >> Oh yeah. And I would advise everybody to go as soon as you can to get the vaccine if you don't have it. It's not It's very uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable. But I mean, it's, you know, it's going to get better, but it's not fun. It's terrible. It really is not fun. >> Thank you. That you said the medication was was working, >> which I did not do, but I don't know why I didn't do it. I got all the other vaccines. I don't get >> anyway. And um here's a here's a question. You you try to pitch your work, right? And you're out there and it takes a lot of energy, right? >> What do you do if you don't have that energy on a particular day to do that? >> Oh, are you do you have to pitch every day? >> It seems it. >> Oh, really? So you're having meeting you having like pitch meetings or that's what I call them. I mean that's like you have pitch meetings or meetings with people who >> No, I'm just I'm just sort of envisioning like like next year when I when I have something ready to show people, >> right? >> Hoping by the end of this year. >> Right. So So okay. So you're imagine and I'm I'm again I'm sorry you weren't you're not feeling well and I'm glad the medication is working and >> Yeah. No, they were very good. They they were they were very good. you know, >> just to say that. But so you're imag So I can understand why you might feel a little low energy right now and not feel because you're imagining, Lauren, you're imagining going out to pitch your work next year and you're imagining not having energy. No, you didn't. That's >> Yeah, because of that young. >> Yeah. Right. Okay. So, >> not that not that being old means you don't have energy. >> No, no, no. I I wasn't saying that. I was I was saying maybe, you know, you could >> I don't want to say that. Yeah. Imagine yourself going out to pitch when you have to go out and pitch and imagining that you go out and pitch on the days where you have a lot of energy and that thinking about your work and thinking about talking about your work in front of people gives you energy. It's like it's the wind underneath your wings. It's the result of all your hard work and you've done all the work and you've written it and rewritten it and you've given it to friends and they've given you notes and all those good things have happened >> and now you're going to go out there with all that great energy behind you >> and you're going to have a wonderful time pitching so you can frame it differently that might help you. >> I'm sure that will help you actually. >> Yeah. Right. believe in believe in in in believe that this story is the is you told it the only way it could be told. It's your story. >> Sure. >> You figured it out and that's it's special. >> Yeah. Yeah. For you told it in the best way you could. You've done the work. Um you love it. Um it it makes you excited. Um it's it has something to share. you know, it it offers something to others, all those good things, you know, like Lou, you you were writing your book and then you had to like pitch it. I mean, what was that like? Just Yeah. What was it like? >> Hi. Um, it was very intense and I had to take care of myself. I mean, it was a long long process. Um, but when you find somebody who is, you know, excited about your work, it's easier to to to meet them in the middle. So, I think that's another thing I would say is I think there's people out there who want your work and that can kind of change the dynamic too of pitching it if that makes sense. >> Oh, no. Go elaborate. What do you mean that could change the dynamic of pitching >> because people meet people meet you with enthusiasm like I'm sure Lauren's work, you know, and and so it feels less like pitching and more just like connecting. >> Oh. >> So, I just offer that if you ask about >> Oh, that's great. Well, that's a beautiful way to look at it. >> Do you hear that, Lawrence? So it might not, you know, you might meet plenty of people who might not feel like pitching at all. It just might feel like some sharing of of, you know, a cool story, >> you know. >> That's a great way to think about it, Lou. Thank you. >> You're welcome. That's wonderful. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Lauren. And I hope you feel better even faster. Um, hi Sarah, please unmute and ask your question. >> Hi. Um, >> just just a second pitch for uh or or promo for shingles vaccines cuz [laughter] I also didn't get it in when I was the right age and I've had them twice. So, and I had I got the shingles vaccine afterwards and get Shingris, not the other kind, but it doesn't help once you've had them. Anyway, um my question uh is one I'm sort of shy and a little ashamed to ask and it's about conflict. >> I have a title I love that a friend came up with. My friend uh Tracy Zurwig Ford. >> Um I think I've mentioned it here before. It's going to be called my next fulllength play, Lesbian Pool Party. What a fun name. >> Yes. What a fun name. >> Um so I've got a fun name. I've written a bunch of interesting scene lits of dialogue where everything there's always water in the scene no matter what. They're usually submerged in it but you know not always. So I've had a bunch of interesting conversations go on in different parts of the character's life. I have no idea. Like I I'm sure what I'm ashamed of is I'm always having these fun conversations and then stitching them together and like and manufacturing a conflict, which is exactly what not to do. >> I just can't I can never think in terms of the conflict first and planning out the outline and doing all that. I just I really want to get at the conversations and having fun writing. And it's never fun to me to try to figure out a conflict. So, do you have any advice on not fearing writing about conflict or figuring out how to do a conflict? >> Sure. Sure. First of all, we could just roll it back for a sec. I love the title Lesbian Pool Party. Uh I think you have mentioned it here before and it's like f and it was between writing that and something else. We were like write the fun one. So, I'm glad I'm glad you're writing the fun one. And um second um no harm, no foul, no shame, no blame if you don't, you know, like to write a certain way. You know what I mean? Like some people only like focus on the conflict and they never focus on the fun and the the dialogue or anything and they might feel ashamed because they go straight for the conflict. You know, it's like a you know, a person maybe you you serve them a plate of food and they only eat the broccoli. They only ever eat the broccoli. they never eat the whatever else is on the plate, the potatoes or whatever. Um, there's no shame in in in loving the potatoes or the broccoli or whatever. Um, so that aside and feeling like, okay, I need uh, you know, all the books say or all the all the people say, you need conflict or you need change. Drama is about change, right? You know, that's what people say, spare change. Um, you know, so you got to have these characters like change. Um, and I I like to think of it in terms of desire, like what do my characters want, >> you know, and and if they even like, you know, want to be left alone, which is I think someone Oh, maybe it was Heather. Anyway, ages ago, you know, want to be left alone. That's a want, you know, especially when you're at a pool party, you want to be left alone. So, why do you want to be left alone? and all these people aren't going to leave you alone because they're your friends or whatever. That's conflict. I mean, it's not like conflict like, you know, like we're gonna I'm gonna kick your ass conflict or spank you, you know, and hate you and pull your hair or whatever people do. Um, I think there's I think uh you can reframe the the the concept of conflict into something that's just like an everyday like I want to go north. Do you want to go west? We both want to go on a whatever what do you call a road trip, you know? Simple things. Simple things like that. [clears throat] >> Um, do you see what I mean? So, you can feel okay about writing the way you like to write because it's a fine way to write to get interested in the characters and their joyous conversations first. That's a wonderful way to write. And then you say, "Okay, so let me dig a little deeper, maybe, you know, let me dig a little deeper. What do these people want?" >> And is everybody, you can look at your characters. Is everybody on board with that? Everybody wants to go to Moscow? No, you don't. Okay. Or whatever. Everybody wants to know who killed the king. Oh, you don't, Claudius. Oh, right. Okay. You don't want to know. You don't want that to be discussed, right? You see what I mean? >> So, you [clears throat] can take kind of a survey. One of them is going to say, "Actually, I I I am not really into this idea." And then there's there's the antagonist, you know? You know, it's it's you can make a game out of it. It's fun. It's called play. >> Does that sound like fun? Does that sound like a good time? >> I liked the idea of surveying my characters. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they got opinions. So idea. So Sarah, the thought is it's not like all coming from you. >> You're not alone. You know, there's interdependence going on. You got your people with you. You know, your imaginary friends. >> Yeah, I love that. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Sure, hun. >> Thank you. >> Great question. Can't wait to hear more about the lesbian pool party. Is it a Is it a pool? Like is it a like a natural like is it like an above ground pool? Is it in the ground pool? Is it a fancy land? Like are they somewhere like where are they? >> It's really not like that's the uh that is the title for it. And it's really just going to be at least a lesbian in a body of water in every scene. >> Oh, that's really fun. >> Okay. >> Oh, that's fun. Oh, so someone could be in their cups. Uh, I don't even know what that expression means. >> It just means drinking. >> Ah, thank you. Could be. >> Drinking. Yeah. Anyway, >> you never know. >> Okay, that's really fun. Oh, see how much fun it is. Oh, that's so great. >> Yeah. Thank you, Sarah. Hi, Emmanuel. Please unmute and ask your question. Okay, got it. Um, >> hi there. >> Hi, Sop. Um, >> it's very good to see you. I've been trying to come back for a long time, so super happy to come back to the community. You >> still live in the States? >> Yes. >> Oh my goodness. Look how brave you are. >> So brave. I'm still waiting on my visa renewal and it's been a year, but >> we're here and we're making stuff. >> Right on. Right on. Right on. Right on. Great. >> That's why I moved. So, um, thank you. Um, I have a question about, so it's kind of in two parts and you can just like answer one or the other >> if they don't come together. >> But one is like uh how to if I've written like a long if I've written a draft like a full length >> and then there are lots of holes and I don't like some of the charact but like I finished it so yay. But but it's not what I like. I don't like it, you know, like there are lots of things where I'm like, I wouldn't want to watch this story, >> right? >> And I need to like rewrite it and like for a bunch of reasons. >> Um, so how to do that [snorts] cuz I'm not quite sure. I'm like I don't I don't Anyway, so that and then the other one is like having a shorter piece that has everything but then trying to make it longer. So I have like this one piece that I've written like a longer version and the short version is so good. Like I'm so proud of it >> and there's like a whole arc in this short piece. >> Yeah. >> But then I've written it needs to be a full length because I want to tour it. So it needs to be at least 50 minutes. >> But the extended version I've kind of artificially, you know, made some like devices, you know, um like a murder mystery or like whatever. Um but so it it kind of diluted it and made it kind of grow a few warts, [laughter] you know, along the way. >> Yeah. >> Um >> yeah. So there are two questions. So how do you is is one of the questions make sure I heard you right. How how do you rewrite >> and the second question is how do you make a piece longer? >> Yeah. >> Without having it grow weird things on it. >> Tentacles. Yes. >> Right. Well, I mean, well, we'll do the second question first, maybe because what's exciting is you've written something and you're really pleased with it and that's exciting. That's that's super thrilling. >> Um, and you tried you have tried to make it longer. >> Yes. >> Already. >> And it's it and it's it feels artificial. >> It's imperfect. There are some things that are cool, but it's like and I just don't know how to fix it. That's all. >> Oh, that's tricky. Okay. Well, there a couple ways. One, just just I mean, how long has it h been since you finished this fulllength play? >> Like a year. I kind of left it alone and then I went back to the shorter version and did that a bunch. >> Okay. Okay. Great. So, what you could a couple of things you could and they're very different. one, read the longer version aloud and just circle everything that doesn't sound great to you and ask yourself, why doesn't this sound great and improve it? Because you can already write a really great version of something. So, why doesn't this sound great? Because it sounds fake. Why does it sound fake? Because Louise would never do that. Well, why would Louise never do that? Well, because, you know, she said she wouldn't do it on page 10. Well, maybe she lied and maybe that's the story. You know what I mean? So, really dig in. Ask your circle everything, you know, with a whatever your favorite what's your favorite color highlighter? >> Uh, yellow or pink? >> Great. Or pink. Okay. So, you circle everything with a pink or yellow highlighter and just go, you know, why doesn't this work? I don't like this. Why don't you like it? You know, well, okay. So, you can do that, which I think would be good. Um, and or or and and or I said that twice. I know. [snorts] >> You could write either a prequel or a sequel to the thing that you love very much. >> Oh, >> which is very a very different approach. M >> but if you love it and it's like that then you could go I'm going to write you know and you could have two short plays which would give you a full evening. I'm just doing all these mark like things here. >> Anybody know Carol Churchill's play Far Away? Not if you Okay. It's like you walk in the theater and you just you know taking your seat practically and it's over. But boy it's And it's only like less than an hour. It's it's like it's nothing. It's like 30 minutes or something. It's amazing. And you wouldn't want it to be any longer and it's incredible. So, [snorts] you know, but that's Carol Churchill and the rest of us, you know, walk around in the pat patting the floor in the dark. Um, but uh but you could write a sequel or a prequel or you could you could do both. You could circle the thing. I I think you should do I think you should at least do the circle the thing one because you need to practice rewriting. >> Yes. So, you need to do the circle the thing one. Circle where it doesn't work and find it where it doesn't work and fix where it doesn't work. >> Yeah. >> And you can also When's it due? >> Um, it's it's long overdue. >> Oh, >> I have to make my own schedule. >> Oh, >> I I've been wanting to tour it for two years now. So, >> I'm like next summer it has to it has to go out. This is impossible. I can't be sitting on it. Yeah. >> Okay. Do the circle thing first. >> Yeah. because you just just regardless, you just need to practice rewriting anyway. >> And that's good practice. >> Okay. >> And then maybe it'll be you'll be like, "Oh, I can write the sequel really fast. I can write the prequel." >> Yep. It's a totally different tone as well. Like the short version cuz it's so quick. Like it means that like the timing and the comedy is like very very different because it goes through an entire story in a very short amount of time. So the style of writing is >> quite particular. So as soon as it gets longer, it's like it's a completely different >> beast almost. >> Yeah. >> Do do then do both. >> I will. Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Great. Great questions. >> Thank you so much. Hello Simone. Please unmute and ask >> question. >> Hey. >> Hello. >> Hey. Let me lower my hand wherever it is. Um, >> hey SOP Zoe. Wishing you well on your next chapter. Um, that's okay. I had the joy of getting to see Sally and Tom the other day because I live in Austin. >> Oh, you do? Oh, thank you for going. Thank you for going. >> It was a great experience. >> They're a great group. A great uh ensemble. >> Yeah, it was a really Yeah, you could see that they really >> Yeah. Fabulous direction by Dave Stley, who's the producing artistic director of Zack Scott. >> Yeah. And I think that was the first time I've ever seen actors stay and hang out later to talk to each other and process and stuff like that. So, it was really sweet. Um, >> yeah, they're really >> Yeah. Well, the and the reason I bring it up besides the fact that Yay, I loved it. Um, it definitely brought up some um some questions I had about thinking about the process and I was wondering things like how much um backstory do you write into your play outside of the dialogue for the actors like when you're doing s like a a historical piece or something that where you know who the characters are is just as much as important as you know some of the dialogue and so I was wondering about that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Okay. Sorry. >> No, I was gonna say and then the related question was, you know, before and after realizing there was a lot of contextual stuff happening in the um in the lobby, you know, um some images and things, you So, I was wondering, yeah, how much is that as you as the writer, not that you're ever obligated to do that, but I'm wondering how much is that um part of the process as the writer versus how much is I wrote the play and I'm going to trust that the theater education, the director, you know, that that that the other people will do their magic and bring something else into it. And so, it just made me think about that process. >> Sure. Sure. The first question I mean the last question first that's the fun of doing you know theater film music dance you know it's a collaborative art form right so even even writing a novel you know the fun thing is you have a team of whatever the a team of folks who practice their craft really strongly right call them professionals or whatever a team of folks who are great at what they do, right? And so I rely on a director who's great at what they do and I rely on actors who are great at what they do and I don't have to monitor or worry or ring my hands, you know, wondering what the productions like. I just say go do your thing and it's it's always wonderful because they're doing their thing, you know. Um so the the drama tur um was responsible for the the the historical uh stuff in the lobby. the director did the stage, you know, that kind of thing. And the actors, of course, brilliant. >> But, um, this how much of a backstory do you write in, you know, there's so much of every play, I'm sure everybody or every novel, right, that's cut, you know. Um, so lots and lots as much as you need um to to tell the story and then as much as the story in its form can bear. So, lots of backstory, but then it's like we don't need to hear about every single show. For example, Good Company in this play, Good Company did, we don't need to hear about every single show. We don't need to hear all the backstories of the deep backtories of all the characters. Sometimes it's just a little line or two and that's because the show has a running time that we and we want to respect how long we go, you know, >> there's a lot of cutting that goes on. So, >> so I think I was thinking more like along the lines of not um wanting to babysit and hold on to your what you imagined the the the characters are and and kind of letting the actors bring >> Oh, sure. >> you know, bring you know, bring to life or bring their bring something else into it versus, you know, that balance of like, no, but it's really important that this character be this or or do you that do you know that this character does that or whatever? >> Sure. Oh, it's well well some things are some things are baked in. I I gotta say some when when you do Hamlet, you know, it's it's it's it's baked in that he says or that Hamlet says it is I Hamlet the DNE, right? But Hamlet the Dne doesn't have to be a white man from you know, you know, a Danish white man. You see what I mean? It's Hamlet over time has been played by lots and lots of people. So that's but the line is baked in the line should be said I think because it's a great line right so I think for example Sally Tom where the character loose is a writer she's a writer that's so she's not like not a writer she's a writer that's her that's her role and an actor stepping into that will take on that and bring their own stuff like a coat a role is like a coat you put on the coat but you're wearing the coat you know what I mean >> [snorts] >> um like says my antic disposition on you. He's putting on something. Um, so it's important. I'm not one of those writers who follow follows around their productions to make sure they're done exactly as I initially imagined. Not at all. Um, but at the same time, there's some things that that that happen, you know. You know. >> Yeah. >> So, so there's a it's it's a middle. It's it's Yes. And, you know. >> Thanks for that. >> Thank you. Thank you, Simone. Hello, Lou. Please unmute and ask your question. >> Hi. Hi again. Thank you. >> Hi again. >> Great to see you. Great to see everybody. Um, one quick announcement. I found out I'm part of a storytelling night for this group called Generation Women where one woman in her 20s, one in 30s, 40s, 50s. I'm representing the 50s and it's at Joe's Pub uh two weeks from tomorrow night. So, I'm very excited and honored to be in the public loop in a new way on stage. >> Fun. >> Yeah, I'm telling Thank you. I'm telling a story about um turning to the internet to become an influencer to try to sell my first book, which I we talked about some in here that process too. So, >> because the theme is beginner beginners. So, anyways, that's great. Yeah. So, very cool. >> Great. Yay. >> Yeah, I'm really excited. Um and so I am on the path for my new project and it's really great because um my other project has been in the world a little almost three months coming on three months >> and um further to the selling and the market like it's out there and people are finding it and the right people are finding it and I feel very zen zen and I've gotten some wonderful response some not wonderful respon and it's just like that's it you know so so I'm really excited to be like, "Okay, onwards." Um, >> and that's cool. But the one the question then is this other project that I've been talking to you about for coming on five or six years, six years has was in motion for eight years. And so this is my first time really starting a brand new project for a long time and and I'm having to get back in practice of what it is to be so early in something. And I'm finding myself writing about what I want to write about and having a real hesitation to dive in to the writing of it. So I'm like this character probably it's also it's fiction. my first project was on. So, it's a new world I'm imagining. And I've had these characters and ideas for about a year very sort of like sporadically, but I'm now in earnest on it. And I think it's my old like advertising head like I'm trying to sell like why this story is for now and like >> why people like it's like it's like two steps removed from being inside of it. >> And then when I get inside of it, then I'm like, >> "Oh, I don't know. Is it first person? Is is it am I doing this right? Like it and then when I back out again, I'm like, "Okay, yeah, I can see it. I can see it." And then when I try to get closer to it, I I'm having a hard time be actually writing a project. And it's like all I want to do is write around it. >> What? >> I don't know if you have any thoughts on that. >> Um, how far along are you? because I um like are you like one month in because I I know you've been talking about it but um I can't >> I think in earn in earnest I mean I had some material in February that I generated very feverishly and I put it I wrote it for two weeks and put it on the shelf. So I'm revisiting that uh for maybe like a month. So I'm really back at it's really only like in earnest like about a month but there's some earlier notes and things that I've been referring to. So some stuff >> so okay. So, it's like it's like early like I mean I'll use this analogy. I've used it before dating, right? >> Right. >> It it's like you it's like you're still new. You haven't like you haven't hit it yet. You know what I mean? I mean, and maybe maybe last time you did it really early, you know, but this time you're taking it slow. We're taking it slow, you know? And I think I think there's nothing wrong with that. I just think consistency is um what you want to do. You know, you want to make sure you keep showing up for it. >> Yeah. >> Like and and and and whatever it is like >> this morning or whenever you when do you like to write? In the morning and afternoon. >> Yeah. The morning is my >> Okay. So, this morning I'm just going like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah like that, >> you know. But I'm showing up every morning going blah blah blah blah blah blah. >> And then one day you'll maybe start to say, "Okay, okay. I could you just you're just um in German they call it uh forgluen which means the drinking that you do before you go out drinking [laughter] you know for or actually actually literally it's warming up the engine I'm sorry I I don't mean any disrespect to our our our German friends it's the warming up of the engine but it's it's what it means is that so you you have a bit of drink before you go out drinking and that's a good thing >> you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, because I think I'm jud I'm judging the You hear it, right? I'm like, I don't know. I'm writing around it. D >> judging. I hear you judging >> the drink. >> The drink before the drink, right? I got to figure out the world. I have to figure out the people. >> Yeah. I mean I mean, have you ever been on an airplane? >> Yes, I have. >> I know you've been to Japan, so I hope you have. >> But you know, when you come into the airport, you don't just like dive in. [laughter] Don't you circle? We're cir We're okay everybody. We're circling Tokyo. Okay, look. Here's whatever this on this. You know what I'm saying? You circle. You're just circling. >> Or a dog before it lies down. It's like circles >> or a dog before it poops outside. You got to like [laughter] check it out. Where do I want to, you know, how's what's the best way to do this? It's just it's it's all good. I think the best thing to do is just keep showing up for yourself and for the work. >> Yeah. >> Whatever that looks like, great. >> Yeah, that worked last time, right? So, maybe just keep doing it. >> In my experience, it works every time. That's There are not many things I'm sure of, but the keep showing up. >> Yeah. >> Work will show up for you. That seems to be a wonderful constant. >> Yeah. Yeah. I have a big feeling about this project too and it kind of scares me I think a little bit like the it feels energetically like and like big and it's very exciting but I think I'm like I'm having to go around it to kind of get a handle on it. Um anyways if I keep showing up maybe it will get easier to get to get at it a little. So I'll keep doing >> it'll definitely get easier. Keep us posted. >> I will. Thank you so much, SLP. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you, Lou. Hello, Hector. Please ask your question. >> Hey, man. Oh, hello. Hey, how are you? Unute. There you go. >> Yeah. Hi, Susan and everyone. >> Hello. Hello. >> Hello. Hello. Um, well, what we have six minutes. So, uh, Susan, my question from last time was, um, about research. >> Yes. Uh yeah, I think it was Nadim Gordimer uh who said yeah uh writers don't research because the research then becomes u journalism. It's no longer writing is no longer uh fiction. It's non-fiction. Um so I'm of course you're the most brilliant playwright of this generation. So I want to know how you how do you see it? Is it >> I see nothing right now. No. >> Oh you are. You are you are Susan. Uh, so like I'm putting together a cultural piece. Um, but I also have my my my sensitivity my sensitivities and um what I want to bring into the piece. But and then there always I I I did a play I wrote a play a few years ago where um somebody came up to me after the show and said uh that's not how people with synal dementia act. Uh so but that's how my character with sen dementia was acting uh and um so ever since then I had the question is it important to research or >> guts into it and not the research. I hear you, brother. And let me just say, Cena, I mean, dementia there, you know, it's like that's not how someone with autism would act. You know, there's so many there's a spectrum. There's so many ways. It's hard to have feedback like that after your play when what you wrote came from a deep, beautiful place. Yes. >> And someone said, "That's not my version of reality." >> Right. >> That's very tricky. Okay. About Naen Gord, who's a great writer and everything. Perhaps for for them uh research did get in the way of their writing. Sounds like it did. Um I believe in research. >> I believe in research. I mean it's if you weren't there, you know what I'm saying? You got to do some little re I don't believe in like getting all the f because it's again it's fiction. So you know just enough like when we talked about eel doctor, you know, you wrote rag time. I'm sure they did a little bit of research to because they weren't alive during that time. So they had to a little bit they went to the library and they read up on what uh this the city was like during I think the 19 I can't remember when rag time is set but you so I think do do enough research again for gluing right do enough research to get the engine running and then stop you know because it's not a history lesson you're not going to be fact checked do enough research to get the engine running >> and then stop and then do you know research on a need to know basis if you need to know a specific thing you know you know okay do some research it's not what you need to learn is to keep do enough research uh to know a little bit about whatever it is you're writing about but not too much to like blanket your imagination >> yeah because >> yeah I imagine that too much of it can can uh hinder the the creativity. >> Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to hinder the creativity, bro. You want to keep it alive. You want to give yourself a like a dancing partner. You know what I mean? >> You know, so the research will provide you >> with all kinds of wonderful things. >> I think the worst feeling it always is where do I start now? You know, when you have all this information in your head because of the research, where do you start now? Where do you go? What do you do with all this? >> Well, just start uh anywhere will do. >> Yeah. Great. >> Anywhere will do. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Are we back here next week? Are we back here next week or >> I don't know. Let's talk to uh Eliza and then because we got like two minutes. We're gonna be really fast and then we'll figure out what we're doing next week. Uh >> yeah, let's get Eliza in here. Two minutes. Go. Go. >> Okay. I'll be really fast. Um hi. It's good to be back. Uh hope everyone's doing well. Um I am currently I finished a draft of a full-length play. So I like have it all. Um and I am struggling a little bit because this play has a lot of layers and like stylistically and one device I have is that characters can speak directly to the audience and they like switch between that and normal dialogue without the other characters hearing them. So, I have whenever characters speak in bold italics, they're saying something other people can't hear and then they switch back back and forth. And so, most of what's important in the play is happening within the character's minds. And so, I'm struggling not to hit the audience over the head with what's important about this play because it's said outright. So I guess my question is how do you find a balance between like not telling everything you want your audience to hear but also conveying these like emotions in your work. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. I mean first of all what's great Eliza is that this this thing you're doing with the the characters speaking to the audience and in a in a voice that the other characters can't hear. That's a great part of the reason why it's great is because you're doing it. The other reason is because it's something that's been done for a long time like the saliloquy you know to be or not to be and then oh you're here blah blah blah whatever nymph to thy or zones be remembered whatever he says to her right she didn't hear a saliloquy which is cool but we heard it and that bears a lot of important stuff right so it's got to be >> um m you got to think of like uh it can't be a lecture or a history lesson, you know, let me tell you the backstory of us. It's something that maybe can only make sure that every time they speak to the audience, it's a particular it's so important that it's said >> and there's maybe there's no one else they can tell but the audience and the story can't go forward without them knowing this piece of information. >> Maybe maybe ramp up the urgency maybe. >> So it's not just blah blah blah. Of course it's not. But I'm just I'm just saying that, you know, it's oh my god, that's what you're thinking in your head. Wow. You know, it deepens our understanding. So there's a there could be a a vertical development, you know, up on the whatever that axis is. That axis that goes like that. Y Thank you. The Y axis. Thank you. >> Thinking back to math classes. >> Yeah. Right. So usually we have the character development on the X axis, but now we're going to have it on the Y axis. And that those speeches develop characters that way. >> They go deeper >> in a way that can't be said out loud, >> right? >> You know. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, so urgency I think it will will win the day. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you, Eliza. >> We have one. Chess, do you have a really quick question? Like really quick like because we're out of time. in the in the in the chat box. He said he'll ask next time. >> Oh, bless your heart. Okay. But but you're holding your finger up, but you're muted, so I can't Your lips move, but I can't hear what you're saying. >> Uh, it's it's it's I'm going to ask something based on my experience of Edward Alb's Three Tall Women and how it applies to story. But I'll wait till next week because I'm very interested in what you said about prequel, sequel, and the difference in novel and play. But I can hold on to it and work on it. Thank you so much everybody. I learned a lot today. >> So did I. So did I. So, but one thing we're going to learn is when are we back next time? That's what we need to >> Yes. >> September 21st. >> What? What is it? >> September 21st. >> September. >> Yes. Because next week we have Labor Day and then the week after that is the 14th which is a a day when we aren't here. [laughter] >> Thank you. >> The 21st. and Amtha will be here and Zoe will be on to better things. We love you Zoe. We so we celebrate you. [applause] We cheer you on and you know if you have a free Monday afternoon you want to come out come over to hang out as one of the hangout people please come visit us at Watch Me. We so love and adore you. Best writing and performing and all those good things that you do. >> Thank you. It's been an honor to be part of this program. >> Well, thank you. Okay, darling. Okay, everybody. See you on the 21st. Okay, bye.