Stop Fearing Rejection & Be The Real You | Marie Forleo on Impact Theory

Every single moment is an opportunity for us to check ourselves before we wreck ourselves. If I'm miserable, if I'm upset, if I'm angry, if I'm cranky, it is my responsibility [music] because it's what I'm doing up here that's making me have that reaction. And if I'm the problem, I am also the solution. [music] Hey everybody, welcome to Impact Theory. Our goal with this show and company is to introduce you to the people and ideas that will help you actually execute on your dreams. All right, today's guest is an eight-figure entrepreneur recognized by Inc. Magazine for building one of the fastest-growing companies in America. She's also one of the biggest names in personal development with a socially-conscious global empire that reaches millions of people across 195 countries. A multi-passionate entrepreneur indeed, she's also an international best-selling author whose work has been translated into 16 languages and her award-winning show, MarieTV, has established her as one of the most credible and impactful content creators on the planet. She's interviewed or been interviewed by a litany of the brightest minds alive, including Tony Robbins, Sir Richard Branson, Oprah Winfrey, Arianna Huffington, and a mountain of others. Simultaneously through her widely lauded educational platform, B-School, she is both disrupting education and helping to develop tens of thousands of the next wave of mission-driven entrepreneurs. With over 30,000 graduates to date and countless successful businesses launched, it's clear that the curriculum she and her team have developed is highly desirable and undeniably effective. She is raw, vulnerable, wise, hilarious, and one of the few people I've ever encountered who can simultaneously disarm people and inspire them to greatness. So, please help me in welcoming the woman Oprah Winfrey referred to as the thought leader for the next generation, the avid philanthropist, and former MTV hip-hop choreographer, Marie Forleo. [applause] Wow. Is that really me? That is really you. That's funny. I'm so excited to have you back. I'm thrilled to be here. Man, the last time that we got to spend together was so much fun. Partly because you really are just you at all times. And what I love is that you talk about how much control we have over being ourselves, how we feel, what our state is. Talk to me about that. So, I think what's important to do is go back. When I first started as a business person, I was 23 years old. And I was so insecure in my mind starting a life coaching business as a 23-year-old. Like, the logical part of my mind was like, "Who the hell is going to hire a 23-year-old life coach? This is the dumbest, silliest, stupidest thing you've ever tried in your life." And I had been on Wall Street, I'd worked in the magazine industry, I'd have done all these things, and basically hit all these different walls. And when I was trying to figure out how to be an entrepreneur at 23, and this is like the late '90s, early 2000s. This is at the very beginning of all things digital. I felt like I didn't fit in. You know, I was trying to live into this idea of who I thought a businesswoman would be with like big shoulder pads and you know, a corner office, and tried to write an online newsletter at that time that was like uber professional, and it was lifeless. I wasn't getting anywhere because I wasn't being me. And I'm just a girl from New Jersey who was brought up in a very, um, you know kind of normal middle class way. No one in my family ever went to college. My parents, my mom especially, you know, she curses like a sailor. So, I had this very unique upbringing and I was trying to fit myself into this idea of who I thought I should be and it wasn't working. So, it wasn't until I actually allowed myself to just be the weird, wacky, energetic, kind of a little bit crazy person that I am that things actually started to work. And so, now it's been almost 20 years of doing this and I've seen it time and time again where people tend to feel stuck and stifled, where they tend to feel like their life force is just drained out of them, there's gets to be despair and depression, they just feel stuck is when they're not expressing the fullness of who they really are. They're trying to fit themselves into a conventional box. They're trying to live up to other people's expectations. They're trying to be someone who they really aren't because they're afraid that the real them is going to get rejected. Wow. So, knowing that that's the depth that drives people into that place, which I think you're right is ultimately a very dark place. How did you give yourself permission to to really let go and be that quirky person even in the face of the potential rejection? Yeah, so it wasn't an easy road and I didn't get there overnight. So, I was raised Catholic even though I'm not particularly religious now. I consider myself more spiritual, but I went to Seton Hall University and I actually used to work for the church. So, when I was about 23, I was still in this mode of whenever I'd hit a crisis, I'd ask God for some guidance. And the way I did it in those days would I was writing in my journal. And so, I remember writing in my journal at those at that time and just saying like, why can't I figure this out? Like I so believe in my coaching business and I also had all of these other ideas of things I wanted to do like hip hop dance, fitness, writing. I was so enthralled with marketing and business. But, traditional wisdom was all about focusing in. It was all about choosing one thing, dominating a niche. And every time I tried to follow that traditional advice, I felt like I was cutting off a limb. And so, in that playing in my journal and writing, "What's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? Why can't I fit in? Why can't I follow all the traditional ideas of what it means to be successful?" I got to a point where I just said, "Fuck it. I can't do this. I can't. I was failing. I was miserable." And I said, "If I'm not going to be able to fit into this traditional notion of success, why don't I throw out the whole notion together and just do what I really want to do?" At that point, I was about 25 and I said to myself, "You know, you've always wanted to dance. You've never taken a dance class in your life. The only experience that I had was like moonwalking across my mom's kitchen linoleum floor to Thriller with like my white socks on when I was like 7 years old. And I always loved dance, but I had never had any experience or training. And so, at that point, I was living in a tiny studio apartment in New York City and I said, "You know, I should just go take a dance class." Like, "Wow, what a novel idea." But Tom, I have to tell you, I tortured myself about that idea for years. Like, I thought about it. I fantasized about it, but I never gave myself permission to do it because it didn't fit in to being a successful life coach or being a successful person on Wall Street or being a successful person in magazines. I had such narrow ideas of who I could be. And so, when I threw out everything and just said, "I'm just going to do this my own way." I took my very first dance class at Broadway Dance Center. I had the dorkiest outfit on. I remember standing outside class and, you know, the class before was finishing up and my jaw just hit the ground because everyone in there was so talented. They were so good. I was so like intimidated and I felt this panic come over me. Cut to me going into the class, hiding in the back, getting down on the floor to start the warm-up, and the music came on. About 7 seconds in, I started sobbing uncontrollably. I had no idea what was wrong, what was going on. I was so thankful that the music was so loud, and I had long hair that I could cover my face. And once I finally kind of started moving, I realized my body was saying, "Yes, this is who you are. This is part of who you're meant to be." And so, you asked the question like, "How did I get there?" It was because I tried so hard doing everything everyone else told me I should do. And when that didn't work, I just had to go off and bust out on my own. And it was through that experimentation and moving my body and tapping into the wisdom of this vessel that everything started to move. It's so interesting. The the getting to the point where you can really own who you are and what you want is already fascinating enough. But you've really codified a lot of this in terms of how you think about our ability to control our state and things like that. Did you have that awareness then, or were you sort of beginning to grapple with that? You know, I think it's interesting because in college, I took a class from a woman who taught with Deepak Chopra. And the class was all about the seven spiritual laws of success. And that was my first introduction to meditation. It was my first introduction to the world of personal development in kind of a major way. And so, I started gaining clues kind of at around 17 or so of this whole new world. But it wasn't until I went through my coach training, which is like a 3-year experience, and then going through the world of dance and fitness that everything kind of started to weave together. And then I just understood too, from an experiential level, how much wisdom we have in our bodies. You know, and at the same time, culturally, we were start starting to spend more and more time on our computers, and then devices started to come into play, cell phones. And I just watched as how so many people started living from the neck up and started losing touch with their intuition, that inner voice, the very innate wisdom that each of us are born with, they just didn't know how to access it. So, for me, in terms of tapping into your body, in terms of movement, and incorporating all of these different modalities into how you figure out your life, um it's become second nature to me, but I think now more than ever it's so important that we reconnect to this thing so we can hear our truth. All right, we got to talk about that cuz you just did an episode of Q&A, which your Q&A's are amazing. you. No, for real, like the way that and I think it was the most recent one you did, you walked this woman through, she wanted to either be an astronaut or a sociologist if I or yeah. Anthropologist, there we go. And so, she wasn't sure if she's going to pursue a doctorate or or really make an attempt to be an astronaut, and the way that you guided her through that, largely through how I want you to imagine the scenario and tell me how you feel in your body. Walk people through the reconnection process cuz I think if if one, people should watch that episode Yes. you like hit her from like all these different scenarios and you could feel her like changing and unlocking things as she went, which was really extraordinary. Um but walk people through how to reconnect. What is what does that process look like? Yeah, so first of all, taps into slowing down. We're all moving so so so fast. We want the answer instantly. We're always going up here. So, I think step one is to slow down and actually breathe and feel your body. You know, if you're someone who works out even, you may not be that practiced at doing this. You know, if you go to the gym and you bang out your reps, or you're doing squats, or you're hitting a class, which is just go go go go go, you you may not be actually feeling the physiological signals that come through your body. So, I always like to frame it like this. A lot of people ask me, what's the difference between fear and intuition? Like, fear, a fear that you should actually move through, it's an opportunity for you to grow, it's something that you actually want to do, but you're just afraid of failing. Or, what if it's your intuition telling you this is the wrong move? It's hard to decipher that sometimes. So, what I like to do is I give people a very simple test how to decipher the difference between that fear and intuition. Here's how it works. You have to slow down. You can close your eyes if you can, and ask yourself, in terms of the opportunity you're thinking about saying yes to, when you imagine yourself saying yes or moving forward with this idea or this person, in your body, in the nanosecond you ask the question, how do I feel about this? Do you feel yourself expand or contract? This is a tiny, tiny micro movement of feeling within you. Expansion might feel like lightness, joy, excitement, fun. All of those feelings where you almost perceive your body moving forward in space ever so slightly. Contraction, think about it in terms of dread, despair. Something in you is saying no. There's a heaviness, a pit in your stomach. Even if that opportunity, even if that idea or that person that asked you something, on paper, it sounds like you should say yes, but something in you is like pulling back, that's your no. So, it's a really great way to help people train themselves to tap into their inborn wisdom that's already within them, that's working to guide them on their best path. You know what I found really interesting about what you were doing with the woman in the Q&A was that it was as the audience it was pretty obvious where she was leaning emotionally, and you simply pointing it out. Like, you feel your voice lightens, your energy changes when you talk about being the astronaut. And one thing that I I really resonated with was you weren't trying to give her an answer until you really understood the problem. And so, that was really interesting that you kept like this open space for her to figure it out, but then you'd say, "Okay, well, you sound different when you talk about that." And and you had her do like this deathbed like flashback thing, which I I think ties perfectly with what you just said, but there's another part I want to get to, which is you've said that exercise you think is like a catchall. How can people use exercise cuz you started the beginning saying like if you're even if you're working out and you're just going going going, you may not be feeling it. So, how can I leverage exercise as a way to really begin to not need the outside voice that you were so potently for that woman, but wanting to be able to, you know, discover the stuff for myself. So, how do I use exercise as as a way to make that happen? I think a few things. One, it's find modalities that you know work for you where you have an opportunity to get so into the movement and the process itself that this thing recedes to the background. When I say this thing, I mean the thinking mind. So, for example, for me, when I take a spin class, a really good spin class where I'm loving the music and I can absolutely let go and charge into my body. I can like feel into every single movement. I can let the sweat pour off of me. I can get lost in the in the rhythm. I find that it opens up a channel in me like nothing else. Sometimes it could be taking a great walk. I think I want to push you a little bit on opens the channel so I really understand it. Yes. Is it where you feel like you can hear the little voice in your mind? Is it where you're Ironically, you can't try and force it to show up. So, oftentimes when I hit a roadblock in my business and I'm just at this stalemate, I'm like, "Oh, I can go this way or this way. I'm stuck. Let me go work out. Let me go take a walk. Let me take a spin class. Let me take a dance class and get immersed in that so that my subconscious and the rest of my body has a chance to work through it and it will produce an answer or an insight when I'm not looking for it. It could happen at the end of the class, when I'm done in the shower, sometimes it happens on the bike. It doesn't matter, but what you just have to do is have a level of faith and trust. And you can't go in forcing it. Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely. So, I know you meditate quite a bit. Daily. Um is it a similar moment of opening or is that completely different for you? For me, in my own experience, it's very different. I feel like what happens through exercise, and again, it's when you have that level of faith to surrender to your body, to surrender that you have wisdom within you that you're not going to access grinding to it. It unfurls almost like a flower blooms when it's ready. That's super interesting and and um by way of just being really who I am. So, you talk powerfully about feminine and masculine energy. I have a really hard time because I think by nature I tend towards the feminine. I have a really hard time like when you use a metaphor like that, my brain immediately translates it into something tough and cool. Yes. Um but that's probably not helpful. Talk to me a little bit about that duality. Um you've talked about how we all hold those both inside of us. How can we because that may be exactly the moment to lean into that? Yeah. And the more you can help me understand it as a process of of being able to consciously move from one energy to the other, that would be extraordinary. So, consciously moving from masculine to feminine for any of us, people access those different modalities within us in different ways. For me, one of the most effective ways is actually breathing into your heart. Now, I think when we're in our masculine, we want to stay connected to our heart. When we're in our feminine, we want to stay connected to our heart. For me, when I get in masculine driving mode, I can unhinge from my heart more easily. I can get really focused, really driven. I can feel my stress level go up. I can almost tune everything else out and just hit it really hard. Do you know what I'm talking about? Oh, yes. When I'm in my feminine and I allow things to be and I stay really connected to my heart and my emotional self and I feel this sense of joy and the sense of trust around me, I find that I don't know if this is helpful to you. That helps me kind of dance in between both of those. And it helps me detect which mode that I'm in. So, let me make sure that I'm hearing your question right. Do you want to tap into your feminine [snorts] essence more or your masculine essence? Which is the one that you find it difficult to see where you're at. I think that what the truth for me is getting to the point where um one I can do it consciously so that I'm recognized because uh an insight into me, when you were describing the masculine as like a shutting down, and I understand that um that that isn't necessarily good. It sounded awesome to me. And it was like such a sexy description. I was like, [laughter] "Yeah, that's what I want to do. I want to like you were doing tune everything out." I was like, "Fuck yeah, like I want to get in there." Which we all need to do sometimes. It's required, but God. So, for me it's like is it as I have like doing that has led me to extraordinary success. Yes. And so, but from that I'm also hyper-conscious. Like I'm constantly asking myself the deathbed question. Now, the irony is I've um part of my what I talk about a lot is wanting to live forever. And so, I think people think that I don't recognize that I have I'm just a wash in mortality right now. So, I do play that out and I think about that a lot. Yes. And I can feel sometimes that it would be a mistake to make that the only mode that I live in. But because I had to find a way to to toughen up, that was my job as a new entrepreneur. That was the thing that I lacked. I did not know how to be tough. And so, I had ambition but no drive. And so, my journey has been one of getting hard. Now, my wife will tell you, "Hey, great job. You made it. You've gotten too hard." So, now my thing is to refine my playfulness, which is almost certainly the right word. Yes. And so, letting go of some of the judgments I have about the the sort of earlier way that I came to things, which I'll say was more feminine in nature. Yeah, so if I'm hearing you correctly, is there a judgment in you that feminine energy, and this is again, no judgment on my part, but that feminine energy is potentially weak? Yes. Yes. Okay, first of all, that is a notion that many of us have, myself included, until fairly recently. Culturally speaking, we've mostly been taught that the feminine is weak, right? That's why so many women man up to run a business. For me, for years and years and years, it produced incredible results, but you know what? At a tremendous cost. Where I felt myself and my creativity starting to just drain down, where I felt myself getting more and more stressed, less and less joyful, where I found myself feeling more and more tired, and asking the questions, "Why?" Because I know my core essence. So, that is one of probably the biggest mistaken notions that we have culturally, is that the feminine is weak, and it is not. It is one of the most beautiful, powerful forces within all of us, and I think, and I'll speak particularly to the women who are watching right now, one of the most profound things that you can do over the course of your life, especially if you struggle with being in your feminine, is to understand that it will unlock your most powerful, beautiful, creative life that you can imagine, which includes your ability to kick major ass in business, and it includes your ability to heal others. [snorts] All right, I I want to go deep on that. It's the most interesting thing that I came across between the first time I researched you and this time was you were talking openly about um there was I don't want to use the wrong word, but a declining um sex drive. Perfect. There we go. we have to go right there. Um because and that's kind of what I was alluding to before. As a woman who's built this incredible business, which I am so proud of, right? And building it from scratch like so many of the people in our audience have, and they're working really hard in their careers, even if they're not entrepreneurs. They're busting their buns every single day. They're raising kids. They're taking care of a million things, especially women, right? And at the end of the day, you're like, "Where What happened? I used to have this like incredibly powerful libido. I used to have all this desire." And for me, in my experience in my relationship, I don't want to be with any other men. That's not what it was about, but I was like, "Gosh, where did it all go?" And it really took many, many years and different me experimenting with different um modalities and things to go, "What is wrong with me? And how can I figure this out? How can I get this back?" And it wasn't until I really started to understand on an experiential level the power of my feminine that everything started to come rushing back. And you know, as a woman, I think this is important for people to hear because there's a lot of messaging that well, you know, once you're done with your 20s or your 30s, like it's all downhill, and that's [ __ ] It's total, total [ __ ] In my experience, it can keep getting better and richer and sexier and hotter and more exciting than ever before. We're getting a lot of claps today, which I love. Yes, but but I think the thing that we failed to realize is that all of this is integrated, right? So, it's not like the joyful playfulness that you bring to your relationship doesn't impact the joyful playfulness that you bring to your business or your creativity or vice versa. That in the middle of, let's say, a business [ __ ] show, that if you can bring some levity or you can bring your emotional self or you can be vulnerable, that you're not going to spark a breakthrough amongst the team. So, I think all of this really interplays quite nicely and it's important that we recognize that they do feed each other. Mhm. I want to go back to your guys' relationship and if I understand correctly, you're saying that as you stopped, at least in the relationship, stopped being so predominantly in your masculine energy. Absolutely. Um I was an [ __ ] I'm just going to say it. Like, once I really started to understand how controlling I was, how directive I was, how many times that I just, you know, cut off his ideas or thought that I knew better and wasn't setting us both up to win. Man, I made tons of mistakes. Now I can look back and go, "Oh my god, what an idiot I was." But, no one teaches us about this stuff until it's too late and I honestly think there's a lot of couples that separate or get divorced because they've just never had these tools or no one's ever taught them about this. Yeah, so this is something Lisa and I talk a lot about. We actually have a show now called Relationship Theory where we dive into this stuff and we talk a lot So, my wife is very powerful um and to be clear on my side, I don't think women are weak and men are strong. I just think I had traditionally viewed in myself the moments where it was vulnerability and all that as as a weaker Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And just to be clear for everyone watching, I didn't hear that from you. I just know that traditionally speaking, many, many women, again, myself included until fairly recently, have a mistaken no notion culturally that the feminine is weak. Yeah, 100% and talking about having, like, we have roles in our relationship for sure, which I will say, certainly from a a sexual energy perspective, she responds when I'm in a definitely a more masculine energy and I respond when she's in a more feminine energy, which I think is really, really interesting. Um and I've seen Tony talk about this where, you know, people, guys not being willing to step into that masculine energy and saying that almost certainly your woman wants that. Yes. And so, I'd love to hear a woman's perspective on that who clearly has some amazing insights in this. Like, what does that mean exactly? How can a guy that's listening now do that in a way cuz like when you were describing the masculine, when you had masculine energy, they weren't traits that you were saying you want him to adopt, Yeah. right? To cut you off, to be short with you, or be an [ __ ] Like, that's not what you're saying. So, how can a guy step into their masculinity in a way that's received well, where the woman feels awesome about it? Well, a couple of things that I'll say. A, I'm so not an expert on this. Like, I will happily share from my experience, but I think that some of the best teachers out there, um Tony Robbins speaks into it. I think David Deida is absolutely incredible with a lot of his work. Um there's a lot more educated, experienced, better teachers on this than I am. But, I'll say that there are three things that I learned. And actually, I learned this um from Tony in terms of what men can do to support women staying in their feminine. So, the first one is that women want to feel seen and noticed. So, when your woman feels unseen, uh she's going to just, honestly, not be that happy. And so, this is about a man stepping into his masculine, right? So, noticing not only how she looks, but what she's doing. Like, "God, honey, you've done so much today. I don't know how you keep all these things running. You're absolutely amazing." For a man to walk in and acknowledge how many plates most women spin, how hard she's working all the time, notice a detail about, "You know what? God, your skin looks beautiful. Your smile is amazing." I think about whatever X, Y, or Z. It could be the tiniest, tiniest detail where you really see her, she'll come alive. You're noticing, you're in your masculine, you're picking out a detail that's something that men can do very well, but to verbalize that has her lean into her feminine. Um so, unseen is a thing that when men don't see their women, things go downhill. If we feel misunderstood, right? Like you didn't actually listen to us. You go in and just try and solve our problem, shuts down the feminine, we get really angry, and we're going to come back at you hard, very very hard. So, when I hear snickering around here, I hear lots of laughs. These are the laughs of recognition, people. It's so true, absolutely. And so, um to be a strong masculine presence and to be there and to listen, to have her feel understood, that's one way that you can stay in your masculine and it'll pull her into her feminine. And then, unsafe is the third U. When a woman feels unsafe, she's going to close down. So, a lot of men sometimes express their anger or their upset, and a woman feels unsafe, and she will close and pull away, or she'll get masculine to try and get herself to feel safe. So, if a woman feels unsafe, that's going to put her into her masculine, and if a man can help a woman feel safe in every way, he's going to be in his masculine. That's extraordinary, and I imagine that that feeds into the kind of relationship that I'm guessing you have, which is high-functioning, high-communicating. Yeah. Um what are some tools that you guys use to keep the communication open, to be raw, to be real? Um how do you guys do that dance? I think part of it is each person in the relationship has to take 100% responsibility for the state of the relationship at all times. So, if I'm walking in and I see Josh and something in me doesn't feel connected or doesn't feel like our hearts connected, it's not his fault, it's got to be something that I'm doing. So, I need to take 100% responsibility like, "Wow, was I in my head? Did I disconnect from my heart? Am I judging him? Am I trying to control him?" So, that way the quality of the relationship is always in my hands. It's not his fault. It's on me. And he plays that same game. So, in that way, if we're both playing that full out and at that level where the health and the connection in our relationship is each 100% our individual responsibilities, it's worked like magic. It's not perfect, but it really does work well. I would say the other tool that I would recommend for everyone to check out. Have you ever heard of Getting the Love You Want? No. Oh my goodness, you guys are in for such a treat. So, this amazing couple, Harville Hendrix, he wrote a book, I think it was back in the late '80s or early '90s called Getting the Love You Want. It's sold a bajillion copies. And Getting the Love You Want teaches you a few communication tools. One of them is about this thing called Imago Dialogue, and it is a relationship saver. I would say for anyone listening who is interested in exploring this between understanding more about masculine and feminine energy and training that in yourself and with your partner, and having the Imago Dialogue Toolkit, between those two things, I think you can heal practically anything. Wow. Can you give us a quick thumbnail? Yeah, so the Imago Dialogue is about listening to another without judging them and having them feel really, really heard. So, the process goes like this. One person asks for an appointment. So, I would say, "Hey Tom, are you available now for an appointment cuz I really have to talk to you about something." And you would either say, "You know what, Marie? I totally am. I have time." Or you'd say, "You know what? I can't talk right now. Can we do it at 6:00 tonight because I have all these other things to focus on." So, that's step one. You ask for an appointment. Then step two is one person is the sender and the other person is the receiver. So, let's say I had something to say to you. There was just a little thing that maybe got me upset or, you know, it didn't feel so good, but I didn't want to unleash on you. I just want to talk about it. So, I would start talking. I'd be like, "Tom, you know, gosh, when I came home and there were all these dishes in the sink, it made me feel like you really didn't see that I had such a big day. It was so hard on me and it would have really been great if you would have taken care of that cuz you know how much it means to me." Your job would then be to mirror what I said to you and reflect it back in the exact words. So, give it a try. When you When you came home? Or say it exactly like No, say like, "So, Marie, let me see if I got that." Okay. "So, Marie, let me see if I got that. Um when you came home and you saw that there were dishes in the sink, it made you feel like um I didn't see how much you have to deal with um and those were as close as I'll get to the Yeah, no. That was really good. That was really good. Keep going. You're doing awesome. Um then I'd be I'd be vamping. I got the vibe but not the exact words. Right. So, you'd say, "Okay, I got that. Can you tell it to me again?" Okay. "I got that. Can you tell it to me again?" So, the piece that you missed was that it would have really been great for you to remember how important it is for me to have a clean kitchen. And again, we're riffing here. Yeah, way close to home riffing, but Yes. Uh so So, let me see if I got that. So, let me see if I got that. The part that I missed was how important it is to you to have a clean kitchen. Yes, you got that. So, then you would say, "Is there more?" "Is there more?" And then either I would say yes or no, but that is there more statement is like this magic statement cuz for both people, usually there's other things that they want to say, but we never ask our partner. So, if you said, "Is there more?" and I had more, I'd be like, "Oh, yeah, and X, Y, and Z." And then you'd mirror it back to me. The next step is about empathizing. It's about saying, "Okay, so Marie," and I'm going to play you for a moment. "So, if I heard you correctly, it really made you feel uncared for and like I really didn't remember the request that you like a clean kitchen and I didn't really see how much you had to do today. Did I get all that? And really get into the feeling and their perspective. And then I would say, "Yeah, you actually did really get all that." And then the final step is you can either um wrap it up and say, "I understand your perspective and that really does make so much sense." So, you're validating the other person's point of view. You may not agree with it, but you're validating who they are as a human and having them feel heard. And you close up this dialogue and I will tell you, this has allowed Josh and I to back up out of some crazy [ __ ] shows so fast. Where you know, it could have been You guys know those explosive arguments where then they last hours if not days. Yeah, yeah. You can use dialogue to handle things so, so quickly. And I feel bad here cuz I'm like teaching other people's material, but please go read the books or take the workshops because they're phenomenal. Wow. Yeah. It's amazing. And definitely don't feel bad. I think more people will go check it out because they at least now have an understanding. Yeah. Um We did an entire show with them. They teach the dialogue on Marie TV and they kind of show you and then please go get the book cuz it's it's the best like 12 bucks you could ever spend. Wow. It's amazing. Um so speaking of being able to back out of a [ __ ] show Yes. You've talked about having shittastic days, which I think is a great word. Yes. Um We all have them. But you also talk about our ability to control our state and that we can actually shift the way that we feel inside without having to have any new external stimulus, just literally decide I'm going to change the way that I feel. How do you do that? Because I think if people can understand not only the effectiveness of that, but actually the steps to take, it could be a game changer. Yeah, I think it's really simple. For me, I try and play this practice of, you know, if I ever feel like in any moment life is not going the way that I think it should be going, it's because I'm resisting what is. You know, if someone didn't turn in their work on time and I'm just like, you you getting that way or something didn't come out right, or the delivery doesn't come, or the technology breaks again. We can list anything in that slot, right? It's me arguing with reality. I'm making myself miserable in that moment because I'm choosing to argue with what is. That's always a losing proposition. So, the more awareness I can bring to that and go like, "Is this really how you want to live your life in this moment, Marie?" Cuz every single moment, as you know, sets you up for the next moment. And you string these moments together, and guess what? You have your life until we get to that incredible deathbed. We never know when that's coming. So, every single moment is an opportunity for us to check ourselves before we wreck ourselves. And so, I just try and play the game. If I'm miserable, if I'm upset, if I'm angry, if I'm cranky, it is my responsibility because it's based on what I'm thinking or believing in that moment. It's not the outside world causing me to feel this. It's what I'm doing up here that's making me have that reaction. And if I'm the problem, I am also the solution. So, how do you, in your own life, begin to unwind that? So, you I'm I'm assuming you literally walk yourself through that. So, you realize, "Okay, I'm the problem. I know this." Yes. Um is it visualization? Is it framing? Is it saying, "I'm going to take a new perspective on this thing that's winding me up?" It it literally is like, "Lighten up, girl. Like, you're fine. Like, do you have a roof over your head right now? Yes, then things are damn good. Is there some food in the fridge? You're probably luckier than millions of people on the planet right now. Is there running water in the kitchen and in the bathroom? Yes, again, you're better off than probably a billion people or more. So, that little reframe helps me. And then, in the moment, again, it sounds so simple, but I think we're all searching for these really complex things, and we don't need them. If you can catch yourself arguing with reality in the moment and realize that's not a wise thing to do, you can then back yourself up and go, "Okay, that didn't turn out right. So, what am I going to do about it? Am I going to be miserable in this this and let this ruin my night, or am I going to send off the email to say, "Hey, when's that work going to come? And let's readjust our communication plans so this doesn't happen again." But the argument and the irritation is not necessary to get a new result. Yeah, energy is something that's I find really interesting and I'm picking up on something that you said in that. Um oftentimes I find people can't talk about it in a way that does anything but give me the hives. But you actually can. So just because it gets so detached I think from my real experience. Yes. But you one way that you make it really concrete, which I think is super interesting and and gave me this real sense of how to externalize what I'm doing internally to to actually change the neurochemistry that I'm experiencing in order to be able to convey something new, which is you've said, "Hey, you're about to write somebody an email." And then you give people advice on like what to visualize and all that. Um do you know what I'm talking about? So really good. I'm like, "Wow, did I come up with this? This is great." It's you, so now I get to teach you. Yeah, please. Teach me my own stuff. This sounds So it it uh you said that hey, you're about to email somebody and depending on what it is, you may be in an aggressive state or not. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Um so the fact that your energy gets embedded into your communications, we all know that, right? Like you receive the email that's curt and you can just almost feel the punch in the face that comes through. You've gotten the text where you're like, "They are definitely pissed at me." Um I believe, and I do this a lot with email marketing, especially in our business, every time I sit down to write a new email, I want the other person who receives this email to the best of my ability to feel the love and the energy and the respect and the excitement that I have not only for the idea that I'm about to share, but for the impact it could have on their life. I want them to feel all of me. You know, if I'm sitting there writing an email and I'm like just feeling flaccid, I mean, what's that copy going going like? It's not going to be any good. But, if I'm there and I'm like playful and I'm excited about it. So, that excitement is conveyed and when someone's looking through their inbox and they see something from me, nine times out of 10, because I'm consistent, they know if they click open, it's going to be a good time. Right? There's going to be love in that email. There's going to be an energy to that email that's different. And I mean, you've probably experienced this in your own life in simple ways. When someone makes a request of you, they care to even put an emoji because it's not just them trying that's like, that was a genuine expression of their excitement. Um I'm sure if your wife asks you for something and her energy is such that there's love embedded in it, you're 100 times more likely to want to say yes, right? 100% correct. Yes. So, we all feel this stuff and I think that if you can consciously begin to practice it, then you're going to notice the impact and the results. Yeah, and I love the way you talk about that because there is so much like that we can influence each other so much by the state that we're in, what we're thinking about, whether we're amped up, like like you said with newsletters specifically and and maybe because it's such a solitary experience like you're writing it by yourself. Yes. I always had to wait until something like got its hooks in me, right? That it made me feel some kind of emotion because then I knew that I'd be able to convey that. Yeah. And what I love about your through line from the you can change states and then giving people those, you know, examples of think about them and fill yourself with a feeling for them. Um and I often tell people this if they come to me and they've got beef with somebody, maybe it's somebody here at work, maybe it's a loved one, whatever. I'm always like, before you go into the exchange and I don't have better words for this, Yeah. but fill your heart with love. Like you you have to you have to actually feel it. Like you've got to get yourself to that state because then you're going to approach this. And the reason that I'm really beating this drum is what I want people to understand is you can do that. Like you can change your neurochemical state. And that's the part that I want people to practice. Yeah, and I mean, you know, so let's take that at two levels. One is a really easy way to change your neurochemical state and your emotional state is put on some freaking music and dance. I don't know anyone who doesn't put on a song that they love and instantly they feel differently. Instantly they get more energized or they want to move and everyone loves different types of music, but get a damn playlist that you know when you hear any one of those songs, you shift. So that's an easy tactic that anyone can use. But I think to speak more to your point about when you're pissed at someone or you've got some beef with with someone, an important thing to remember is that everyone is always doing the very best they can. Always. So whatever behavior has happened, whatever the situation is, you have to know that that person innocently was doing the best that they could given who they were in that moment, what they were believing, and what they were thinking. You don't know if they were scared, you don't know if they have a ton of stress going on, you don't know if they have a health scare, you don't know a lot, but all you do know is that every single person is doing the very best they can in each moment. So if you can bring that level of understanding and compassion and try and take on their point of view, it relaxes things. Because right, you're not trying to be an [ __ ] Sometimes people think you're an [ __ ] but you're not trying to be. You were doing the best you could in that moment. Were you perfect at it? Maybe not. I'm certainly not, but I know I was doing the best that I could. So I think that between the tactic of changing your state with some music and actually getting things moving and then having a little bit of humility and realizing that everyone really is doing the very best they can allows you to relax a little bit and not go in with so much hardness. Now, because this is what I love about you, talk to me about high standards because your team is crushing it. Oh my god, they're ridiculous. I don't even know. I'm just like, y'all are just smarter than me. I should just sit down and stay in bed all day. I'm not letting you get away with that. You you are setting the tone. You're extraordinary. [snorts] One, I love the humility. Don't think that's lost on me, but the team is definitely built around they resonated with you because they're like you. I'm willing to accept that, but clearly you're setting a tone. What you've achieved is it borders on unimaginable, especially when you think about how early you got in this, how long you've been at it, how much you've transformed yourself. I mean, it's really extraordinary. you. So, what I want to know is the compassion is real. It it leaks out of you on camera, off camera, and everything you touch, but the high standards are real. So, how do you balance that? The like I'm really filling my heart with love. I really get that you're doing the best you can, but also we have some high standards that we have to live up to. So, I think it's a dance. One of the things about my team in particular is we do share a lot of DNA. So, everyone does have very high standards. They want to be the best. They want to crush it. They want to come out with new things. They want to be innovative. They want to always be at that next level. So, I can only play with people like that because they're the only people that get my kind of little weirdness and craziness. So, that's number one. Number two is we're also realists and we've been in this game long enough to realize you're not going to hit a home run every single time. I always like to call it the SNL effect. Like I love SNL. I think it's a great show. I've always watched it. You know, but you don't get to Dick in a Box unless you actually do all of these other skits. I mean, it was one of the funniest in my opinion. I know people are like but it was one of the funniest skits back in the day. It was hilarious. And I remember watching that thing so many times and going like this is genius. Remember Justin Timberlake and it was just like this whole thing. Again, in today's culture in 2019 culture, that would get ripped apart. I'm talking about in that particular moment in time, I thought it was funny. You don't get to some of their most hilarious skits unless you produce a lot of work. So, coming back to your point in terms of high standards, you can have really high standards for things, but you have to allow yourself to do a lot of volume and make mistakes. So, an example was in the fall we went out and did some things on the road that it was a new thing and we're not using any of the footage because it wasn't very good. I'm not crying in my cereal over that. That's like part of the game. So, I think it's very possible to have high standards, which is different than perfectionism, and allow yourself the grace and the space to play and experiment and fall on your face or not use stuff. I want to talk about that. I want to talk about your persona, your self-professed persona as the turtle. Oh, yeah. What What does it mean to be the turtle? What do you mean by things at volume? I think that those are really, really important. So, I mean, starting in the online world, you know, 1999, 2000, when my business started, um I go slow. Oh, so for the first 7 years of my business, I had side gigs and a lot of that was by choice. So, in addition to my coaching business that was small and starting with one-on-one clients, I was also starting to teach dance and fitness. I had this whole simultaneous career um doing fitness DVDs and workout DVDs and becoming a Nike elite dance athlete, working for MTV, choreographing, doing all this stuff. I was also bartending and waiting tables. My focus was intentionally split as the multi-passionate entrepreneur because I wanted to do all these things. So, I understood if my focus was on one thing, I would probably go faster, farther, right? I would speed up. If my focus is diffused amongst different things, I'm probably going to earn less money and go a lot slower, but for me there is more joy and satisfaction there because that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to have my hand in all of these pots. So, I'm always focused on the long game. I think these days a lot of people want Insta results. They want to be Instagram famous. They want to have like a billion-dollar business overnight. And if you're just starting out, you've never run a business, you've never created content, you've never sold, marketed, built a team, done any of these things before, to expect instant results, it's immature. It's unrealistic. You're never going to get there. And some of the people I admire most in the world, no matter what their craft is, dude, they're in it for the [ __ ] long game. They're not sitting around going like, you know, "Why can't I get higher conversions by tomorrow?" It's like, that's not how this works, man. And if you're looking for that type of result, it's just like I'm not interested in hanging with those kind of people. I think we get better over time. I think you have to really be patient. I think people have to understand, especially when it comes to any so-called like glamorous type career or people maybe things that people perceive are glamorous, whether it's something like what you and I do, an athlete, an entertainer. Do you know what 90% of the work is? [ __ ] grunt work. That's what it is. It's unglamorous. Sometimes people are like, "I want to see what you do more." I'm like, "You want to see what I do more? I'm sitting with a [ __ ] messy bun in my sweatpants, sometimes not showering for three goddamn days because I'm hammering [ __ ] out. That's what I do. I love it. But if you're not willing to put in that kind of work, you're not going to get the outcomes on the other side." Yeah. Sorry, did this get too rough real fast? No, man. No? All right, good. [applause and cheering] No, that really was amazing. And and a big part of my beef with um upstart entrepreneurs is is that. It's not realizing that it it's about building a skill set. You know, it's about getting extraordinary at something. And that's one thing that I really resonate with in your teachings is your your B-school is tactics, man. It's like how to for real run a business. Yes. And I always say, I'm like, "This is not a get-rich-quick overnight program. This is get great Overtime. Like that's why good. we give people lifetime access cuz I'm like, "Look, dude, you're probably not going to get through this, you know, in the 8 weeks." You're certainly not unless this is all you're doing and most of us don't have that kind of free time. And I had people that have gone through the program. I wanted to make an amend, too. Um, in the opening you're like 30,000 people have gone through at this point it's over 44,000 grads. Yeah, it's like a small town. Um, Can I tell you something really fast about Yeah, go for It's not just like a small town. I ran the numbers at 30,000 cuz that was the the Yeah. today data I could get. Bring it. That's 18 years worth of Harvard undergrad graduates. [laughter] How crazy is that? Like when you think how many people have gone through your program, that's astonishing. Thank you. Well, I got to tell you this though, I didn't set out to do that. And vision is great. Some people have amazing, huge, big, grand visions and they love it and they step into it and they rise up to that occasion and that's awesome. Like if that's you and that's how you're built and that's what works for you, [ __ ] rock on. For many people when they have an enormous vision, it paralyzes them. They have no idea how to accomplish it. I see people crying workshops all the time. It's so big. I don't know how to do it. I want to change the world. I'm like, "Don't worry about changing the world, change one person's life. If we can focus there, stay there for a little bit, we're going to get to that thing. Maybe. Otherwise, it's all good cuz you're still doing the work that you were born to do." But in terms of B-school, it didn't start out like wanting world domination. It started out seeing a gap in the market and feeling heartbroken because when I was trying to start my business, everything that I saw in the marketplace lacked the soul, it lacked the values, it lacked the integrity, it lacked the fun, it lacked the playfulness, the design aesthetic, all of these things that I thought would come together and create a more powerful learning experience. So, I was like, "Well, [ __ ] it. I'm just going to create it cuz I wish I had this when I started out." Another thing that I I I would be beyond remiss not to bring up along this line of like what beginning entrepreneurs often struggle with indecision and you said what I have tattooed on my soul which is indecision is what will kill you. Yes, indecision is a dream killer and the opposite what do we do about that it's probably one of the things I live my life by most besides the idea that everything is figureoutable is that clarity comes from yes. I can wait for that. Yes, we'll talk about that that clarity comes from engagement not thought. So one of the things that got me off my ass right when I was thinking about should I be a dancer could I be a dancer am I too old to be a dancer oh I think I am which is getting into that freaking dance class. That's what cracked me open to a whole additional career that by the way built the skill sets to what I do today. So my little kind of offshoot my weird dancing thing got me experience in front of the camera teaching to big groups leading music all the stuff that we've talked about in this entire interview built this incredible skill set that now fuels the brand that I have today that's completely unique that would have been [ __ ] if I just stayed narrow and focused on life coaching. I would have been you know that girl with like an awful pink suit and shoulder pads terrible. So one thing that I really want to know your opinion about is the woman who's in that indecision of whether she should be an anthropologist or an astronaut. You had her do the deathbed question and it really centered around what are you going to regret more what you do or what you don't do what do you think is true about humans in that situation? I think that we honestly don't think about our own mortality enough. I think death is one of those taboo kind of topics in our culture and we don't really face it. We don't think about it. We don't talk about it enough. We don't imagine ourselves dying enough. We don't really just dive in and one of the weird little tricks that I use on myself especially when I'm just being horrible in my own relationship or I'm being not the person I know I'm capable of being. I'm having a temper tantrum, I'm stressed, I'm just being an ass, whatever it is. I've used this in my relationship with Josh where I will literally fast forward to the point where like I imagine him laying in a coffin and me going, "Why were you such an [ __ ] Why didn't you take that time? Why did you let that fight go on for 4 hours or a day or whatever it is?" Or in those moments where I feel myself tightening up or shutting down or withholding love, I try and check myself before I wreck myself. I go, "There's going to come a day where you're going to flashback on this moment and wished that you just gave him a hug." Or wished that you went in and said, "I love you." It's coming for all of us. So, if you can remember that now you change everything. Yeah, I think that's super powerful. And as you were saying that, it's like [snorts] I really like think about what it would be like if Lisa were in when they die, when someone that you care dies about, the way that you are bereft. That like I don't think about it in a detached sort of clinical way. I think about it in the like the way that someone [ __ ] throws themselves on a coffin. Yes. And the the the sense of like hopelessness of never being able to get those moments back. That's right. And that yeah, that like just [ __ ] devastating sense of loss. It's pretty crazy how fast that'll snap you out of some [ __ ] Oh, it will snap you out of some [ __ ] And it will stop you from being in a temper tantrum. And you can use that same notion. Again, some people might say this is incredibly morbid. I say it's incredibly inspiring. I say if you can use it to wake yourself up out of that slumber of staying in your temper tantrum or being pissed at your parents or pissed at your friends or pissed at someone who again, if you can see them as an innocent doing the best that they possibly could with whatever tools and understanding and beliefs and thoughts that they had in that moment, you can find a way to transcend, to reconnect to your heart, and to be that love that you really are. Mhm. You say that we don't talk enough about death. Let's talk about death. Like for real, you and me right now. Um because I realized that I think about death and I think about it like I was just saying with Lisa and that's probably the most potently I ever think about it is Jesus Christ. Like what would this really be like? Yes. Um you and I both decided not to have kids, Yeah. which is a a pretty still weird decision for most people in terms of the feedback that I get. And I don't have any sense of what you think or feel about the long-term consequence of that. For me, I'm very aware. So, I think of life as being in phases and to me it doesn't make sense to make a decision based on one phase when you're going to live, say the majority of your life in a totally different phase. So, I know deathbed moment, I it's a different phase. I will have a different frame of reference. I will value different things in that moment. And in that moment, I will regret not having children. That's very clear to me because I will want to be surrounded by those that I love, but as the youngest in my family, odds are that I will be the last to go. Um so, I know in that moment I will regret it. But right now I don't. And right now I would regret having children now. Mhm. And I think that that the sort of vibrant phase of my life where I want to create and have impact and all of that is is something much longer. How do you think about death in that sense in terms of the decisions you're making in your life? Do you think that things will change for you as you move through phases? I mean, talking specifically about the decision not to have kids, I remember when I did it Marie TV on that, I was so blown away by how many women were like, "Thank you for we're about this." Um and I also it was funny I was like I was waiting for the comments. I was like I wonder how many people are going to say, "Oh, but you're going to regret it or you're going to change your mind." For me, I actually don't believe I'll regret it at all. In my own life I've run so much of it by my gut and by intuition and by listening to the still small voice within. And as I said on that show that I did, it was never a decision for me. I didn't weigh my options. I wasn't torn. It was clear. This, meaning who I am right now, is my path. Should some point happen between now and when I die that I want to have children in my life, there are many many many different options for me to execute, right? There's adoption, there's fostering, there's like a million different ways that it could go. Should I change my mind, which again I'm very open to. So, I don't believe, in my case, that I'm going to have any regret. Um, I believe so strongly in how my life has unfolded, and I also have tremendous faith that it will continue to go exactly as it's meant to. And whenever my time is up, I feel really good about the ride. How do you think about death in terms of does is death like a companion with life choices? Do you think is that a like I'll I'll frame this by saying I don't find that a particularly um effective frame outside of like being kind to my wife. Yeah. Um, but in terms of like my own death, I don't find particularly compelling as a frame of reference. Yeah, I don't think I do either. Um, I feel as though it's useful to do a gut check. You know, if I were to look back and go, "Ah, you know." So, for example, let me take this into context. When it was around dance for me, I actually did a 10-year frame on that. I said in 10 years, because I was 25 at the time, "in 10 years would I regret not going for dance right now while I'm still 25 years old?" Cuz there's a difference physically or at least there can right? In a 25-year-old versus 35-year-old just starting to get into the dance world. Just you give yourself just a little bit more of a hurdle. And my answer came back, yes. If I'm 35 and I didn't try this right now, I would totally regret it. So, I find that shorter time frames for me become a more useful reference point. Yeah. I I can definitely get that. Yeah. I could talk to you forever, for real, forever [laughter] and ever. Uh before I ask my last question, though, Yes. tell these guys where they can find you online. Maybe give them a teaser about the book. Sure. That'll be amazing. And hopefully we'll come back, we'll talk about that. Yes. Um so, marieforleo.com, m a r i e f o r l e o. That's true over Instagram and Twitter and YouTube and Facebook. Um but the main goods are at marieforleo.com. I think we have like hundreds and hundreds of free episodes and the podcast. And as long as you like humor and you don't mind a little Jersey straight talk, it's good good stuff. And then in terms of the book, the title is Everything is Figureoutable, How One Simple Belief Can Help You Change Your Life and the World, and it comes out September 10th of this year. Amazing. I cannot wait to read that. Me, too. I'm so excited to see it all done. That's incredible. All right, so my last question, what's the impact that you want to have on the world? I've always had this belief since I was little that every single one of us is born with a unique set of gifts and talents that only we can give the world. So, the impact that I want to have is I believe our world will transform significantly when every single one of us realizes that the world really does need the special gift that only we have. So, to see people wake up to that, to know that it's already in them, they don't have to do anything or be anyone different to just express that, I think we go a long way. I absolutely love that. All right, guys, look, I'm going to put my most aggressive two-handed stamp of approval on this woman. Everything she does is absolutely extraordinary. You will be mesmerized. You'll be blown away. Everything she teaches is real. It will actually make your life better if you follow her advice, which is just the the most important thing I could say about anybody. Um her content is hilarious. It really is full of wisdom. It's full of executable advice. Her Q&A's are legendary in my opinion. That you really get to follow somebody. They're done live. So she's on the phone with them and she's walking them through. She's chasing them down. Uh it's it's really really moving and I think that you will see yourself in that and I think that you will be able to gain a lot of advice from that. I highly recommend that you guys go to her website, which is A it's gorgeous. B it's full of incredible information. It's a a portal into her whole world of content. The B School I have not taken it full disclosure, but the people that have rave about it and the number of people that have gone through I think speaks for itself. Um so I would really if you're thinking of starting a business, I can't point you in any better direction. I would definitely definitely check that out. All right. Guys haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time my friends, be legendary. Take care. [cheering] Everybody, thank you so much for watching and being a part of this community. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. You're going to get weekly videos on building a growth mindset, cultivating grit, [music] and unlocking your full potential.