Video summary
The video challenges the common advice given to young people to simply "find their passion," arguing instead that this pursuit actually begins with curiosity rather than a pre-existing love for a specific activity. The speaker explains that while children are naturally curious, adults often crave predictability and routine, causing that innate curiosity to fade. To discover one's true calling, individuals should avoid specializing too early or settling on something they think they might like before fully exploring it. Instead of acting like a woodpecker that hammers away at the same piece of wood hoping for a breakthrough, people should act like hummingbirds, moving from flower to flower and trying a wide variety of interests without fear of being bad at them. This broad exploration allows curiosity to naturally narrow down over time until it settles on one or two specific areas that genuinely light a person up, marking the transition from mere curiosity to true passion.
Once an individual identifies these emerging passions, the journey enters its most difficult phase, where the speaker distinguishes between passion and obsession. Passion is described as a state that requires constant motivation and effort to maintain, often accompanied by self-doubt, frustration, and the feeling of struggling despite loving the activity. Many people quit during this stage because they mistake the necessary struggle for a sign that the activity isn't their true calling, especially when comparing themselves to others who seem effortless. However, the speaker emphasizes that staying in this "passion" zone long enough, even while performing poorly or receiving criticism, is essential. It is only by persisting through this discomfort and continuing to produce work that may not be great that one allows the activity to evolve into an obsession, a state where the drive comes from within rather than needing external motivation.
The ultimate goal of this progression is to reach obsession, which the speaker defines as the point where the work itself becomes addictive and effortless. In this stage, the individual no longer needs to manufacture energy to stay interested; instead, they are pulled toward the activity by an internal force that makes them lose track of time and feel compelled to engage with it constantly. This shift transforms the experience from a struggle into a source of natural energy and resilience, effectively building a life around the craft rather than just exploring it. From obsession, mastery eventually emerges as skills deepen over months and years, turning the activity into a brilliant career or dream life. The speaker concludes by outlining this four-stage sequence—curiosity, passion, obsession, and mastery—as a roadmap to help people understand where they are in their journey and encourages them not to abandon their pursuits when results are inconsistent, assuring that persistence will eventually lead to the effortless mastery seen in others.
Read the full video transcript
Hey everyone, welcome to this episode of
Leadership Insider. I want to talk to
you today about the whole idea of
finding your passion. Uh there's been so
much I think unhelpful things said about
this particularly to young people who
don't yet know their passion, would love
to know their passion, see others um or
perceive others to be living in their
passion and envy people that have
discovered that when they haven't. So
begin some sense of pursuit often in a
stumbling way to try and find their
passion. But I think telling young
people or anyone that has not yet
discovered their thing in life to find
their passion um is probably not the
best advice because finding your passion
doesn't start with finding your passion.
It starts with curiosity.
We're all naturally curious as kids. We
become less curious. As you no doubt
have found out, as we age, as we age, we
crave more predictability, uncertainty,
and routine.
And curiosity becomes a casualty of
that.
So, I want to say to any of you
listening to watching this that are
trying to find your passion or you have
someone in your world
that you want to be able to find their
passion and you've been coaching them in
that, helping them in that, then here's
a few things I think that are um the
ways to do that. This is what I've
discovered anyway in discovering my
thing in life. Um so the first thing
says it doesn't start with finding your
passion. It starts with curiosity.
It's good to in your early part of your
life especially to
try lots of things to not specialize too
soon which is what find your passion
suggests you should you should do
but be curious about many things because
the sequence of events is this.
Curiosity
leads to passion.
Passion leads to obsession. Obsession
leads to mastery.
Curiosity,
passion,
obsession, mastery, I think, is the
sequence of events of how this thing
pans out. And I think the idea is to not
confuse and conflate
passion and obsession.
Passion is something you're trying to
hold on to often in life. Obsession is
something that won't let you go. I think
is a helpful uh difference of language
to use about which phase you know that
you're in in life in the pursuit of your
passion and eventually obsession and
mastery. Um curiosity means that you try
lots of things on your way to finding
what your thing is.
So start there.
You don't start by um settling too early
on something that you feel or think
you'd be passionate about
uh and later discover you're not and
have got exhausted trying to make
something work for you, make something
be your passion only to find out it
never was. Um try lots of things.
Be more what I call a hummingbird
at the beginning of this pursuit,
beginning of this evolution of finding
your thing. Be more the hummingbird than
the woodpecker.
Move more from, as it were, flower to
flower as the hummingbird does, than
spending all day banging away at the
same piece of wood on a tree
thinking that's my passion. I'll stay
here until something happens.
Uh be a hummingbird. Move from thing to
thing. Spread your interests wide. Um
try different things. Uh be interested
in lots of things. Explore widely.
Allow yourself to be therefore bad
at lots of things. This is the bit where
I think we get stuck.
We are curious about things. So we
pursue that curiosity.
Then we find that we're really bad at
where it takes us. So we ditch it and
keep moving. Uh years go by where we
continue to be the hummingbird and and
never settle on one or two particular
flowers as it were, which is the idea
that curiosity becomes some version of
you find as you're curious about lots of
things. What few things in those lots of
things are your particular passion,
interest, love, what lights you up? You
may be curious about music and business
and art and health and exercise. Um,
great.
Be curious about all those things and
keep moving through all those things and
let curiosity keep asking questions and
interrogating those things as to whether
or not they are things that you should
spend more time on. Ask what is this?
How does it work for me? How do I feel
when I'm doing it? What happens when I
try? How do I feel when I try and don't
do well? Uh so curiosity
is not commitment. Don't worry that it's
becoming a commitment. It's not. It's
exploration and you need time for that.
And as your curiosity
begins to
settle on one or two things, that's
where passion lives. Passion lives at
the end of the curiosity journey. It
doesn't mean you stop being curious in
your life. Never stop being curious. But
in in terms of the discovery of your
thing, you're wanting to be curious
until you not curious anymore
um with the same sort of widespread
attention that you've had.
These
few things that you settle on, that you
keep returning to that you effortlessly
now seem to enjoy and want to spend time
in and research and get better at and
double down on. These are things that
are becoming the foothills, if you like,
of your passions.
When you find what they are, you have
got into the neighborhood of what you
should stick with. Now is not the time
to keep flying around, you know, um,
hummingbird flying around anymore. Now's
the time to settle into these things
that you feel are more exciting to you,
more interesting to you, that they are
more gripping of you. Um it's the stage
where you
um
say, "I'm going to stay here. I'm now
going to get good at playing the guitar.
I'm going to get good at developing
these people skills. I'm going to get
good at um my ability with uh you know
computers and data and software and all
of that. I'm going to get good at
developing uh my skills that are manual
skills. I'm brilliant at, you know,
doing things with mechanics or plumbing
or I'm brilliant at cooking or whatever
it may be. And these things become your
passions where you're so happy to invest
more time and effort. It doesn't feel so
much like effort anymore because you are
enjoying it so much. Um your identity
almost starts to get developed around
these few things that now I think you
can say safely these are my passions.
These are the things that I'm loving to
spend my time on. What are they for you?
Are you there yet? Do you know what they
possibly are? Can you language them?
Now
this is the I suppose challenge when you
get even to your stage of passion
because passion is where you settle
where you enjoy what you're doing where
you are ex expending quite a bit of time
and effort and energy
but to maintain your passion to stay in
it long enough for it to become mastery
which becomes then effortless. others.
You have to be willing to
um be bad at it.
Passion is a tricky space to be in
because you found your thing, but you
haven't yet developed enough skills for
you to be convinced it's your thing. So,
you're still asking, "Am I good enough?"
Um, is this really my thing? Should I
quit?
uh
people whose thing this is are better at
it than me. So you're trying to
not let go of it
because you're not convinced your
ability level yet could allow you to
feel it's a passion. Here's where lots
of people drop it then and step away and
go back to being unhelpfully curious,
too widely curious
because the passion that you felt seems
to dissipate in the face of
struggling and not getting the results
you want. been barretted sucking at
something long enough to discover it is
your passion and actually could become
your obsession. And when a thing becomes
an obsession, that's where all the good
stuff begins to happen.
And if you if you don't know the
difference between those two things, and
I'll talk about that in a minute, then
you think, well, if this was my thing,
then it wouldn't be as difficult as
challenging as it is. It would be more,
you know, encouraging and and
inspirational and more exciting.
Uh but passion often feels more
frustrating
and uh slow progress and self-doubt and
imposttor syndrome is often what you
feel during your passion. And it's
confusing because you think well I'm in
my thing. I'm in my passion but I don't
think I should be staying here because
I'm not good at it. Others have said to
me, oh that wasn't great or you didn't
do that well or that wasn't a good piece
of work you did. and you think, "Yeah, I
know." So, your tendency is to want to
quit in the face of that discouragement.
Uh, and so you stop and go back to
square one. And that's what I don't want
you to do. I want you to stay in what's
become
um your passion
knowing that I am here
earlier than my skills are earlier than
my mastery is earlier than where the
pain of making mistakes
uh isn't enough to make me turn back. I
realize I'm going to make mistakes. I'm
I'm allowing those mistakes and the pain
of that to propel me forwards because I
know this is my thing and eventually if
you'll keep pushing through
this discomfort
and this disappointment in your efforts
even inside your passion you start to
move towards
uh obsession
not full mastery yet but enough
competence
that you feel your progress
is accelerating and your results are
improving consistently
and your identity deepens around your
attachment to that thing that you are
calling your passion and you haven't got
full mastery yet and don't worry about
that. But you're not where you were.
You're not at the entry level passion.
You're moving towards the end end part
of passion which is where obsession
begins to kick in and something begins
to change.
What begins to change when you're moving
from passion to obsession is that you
are more being pulled by obsession than
you are trying to be motivated towards
your passion. Passion requires
motivation to stay interested in it.
Obsession does not. Obsession keeps
choosing you, keeps calling you, keeps
gripping you. Passion doesn't. And
you'll know you've moved from passion to
obsession when you stop trying to be
motivated. And now you almost can't help
yourself, but stay interested, get
involved.
Um, can't put it down because it's not
putting you down. Passion
requires
motivation. Obsession kind of replaces
motivation
and it becomes effortless. This is the
space where you always wanted to be and
where you often saw people in their
passion that were effortless in it, but
they weren't in their passion. They were
in their obsession, but you called it
passion and said, "I don't have that, so
it mustn't be my thing yet." You know,
they were they'd advanced beyond passion
to obsession, which is where you will
get to if you don't quit in this in
between curiosity and obsession. This
passion phase that just needs discipline
and showing up and keep trying and keep
putting out work that's not great and
keep dealing with this inner chatter
about I'm not enough. It was terrible.
And people that mattered to me said that
to me. It wasn't great. Yeah, they're
right. It wasn't great. So, you quit.
And you were maybe, you know, a week or
two from in into this obsession
territory where it feels, "Yay, I'm
here. This is brilliant. It's
effortless. It's so easy." Yes. Yes.
That's where you're going to get to if
you'll keep going. Um because
obsession creates energy. You're not
what I call manufacturing energy anymore
to stay interested, which is what you're
doing in the passion stage. You're
manufacturing energy to keep having a
go, especially when the results aren't
great. But um
obsession brings its own buzz, its own
drive, its own energy, its own
persistence, its own resilience. When
that's all there effortlessly in you,
you're in the territory of obsession
because
the work itself becomes addictive.
It's not addictive when you're in the
passion stage. That's why we shouldn't
say to people find your passion as if
the passion is the end goal and where
you stop. Yes, find your passion through
curiosity, but then stay with your
passion, especially when you suck at it
until it becomes its own drive, its own
pull, its own energy, its own thrill,
its own excitement,
uh its own addiction. Then you enter
your obsession. Now you you can't wait
to get back into it. you you you you
never have an off button as it were
about the thing you are obsessed with.
Um and so
you think about it, read about it, talk
about it,
uh lose track of time when you're around
it. This is how you know that the
obsession has landed. You have found
your thing. It's when um it's when the
work that you were doing
in your passion stage starts working on
you. It starts beckoning you, calling
you, won't let you go. You are in
obsession. This is where all the big
stuff starts to happen in your life
around your thing. You found your thing.
It's an obsession. People will start
saying to you, "Wow, you you know, you
you're obsessed with that." That's a
compliment.
You're obsessive about that. That's a
compliment because they're telling you
that you found your thing. They never
said that to you, you know, months or
years ago. They never said that to you.
Now, don't ever hear that as a criticism
or a judgment. That's something you
should work on. It's not. You found your
thing
and now you found your thing. Curiosity
served you. Passion moved you beyond
curiosity. And now you have found your
thing. Curiosity
opens the doors. Let me read this to
you. Passion keeps you in the room.
Obsession builds the house. Again,
curiosity
opens the doors.
Passion keeps you in the room that the
door opened for you to get into.
Obsession builds the house. Or curiosity
explores the world. Passion chooses a
path for you. Compassion builds a life
for you. This is obsession rather builds
a life for you. So if you're young and
trying to find your thing, don't start
with passion. Start with curiosity.
Be curious about lots of things.
Let passion emerge from what holds your
attention and interest.
then stay long enough to be to become
good at what you're passionate about
because somewhere on the other side of
competence
um
obsession is waiting for you.
I don't know where this progression
finds you today.
Curiosity, passion, obsession, and then
mastery. Mastery is what happens when
you settle in to your obsession. and you
get brilliant at something and now you
have mastery. Now you are a master of
your craft because you have spent
months, years
horning your skills around your
obsession, becoming the best you can be
in what you're obsessed with. You become
best version of you in that space. And
you're brilliant at it. And everybody
knows you're brilliant at it. People say
to you, you're brilliant at it. Now you
are making a living from it. Perhaps
you've monetized it. It's your career.
It's your life. It's your dream life
because you now have mastery. And if you
look back, and often people that have
mastery don't because they're just so,
you know, consumed with the mastery and
the joy of that, which is great. But
remember where you came from. Remember
the sequence
of events that you started with
curiosity.
You got passionate about a few things.
Those things became obsessions to you.
Those obsessions you develop mastery in.
And now here you are.
So when people are asking you for advice
about how to find their passion,
remember not to say to them, you know,
well, what are you good at? and they say
to you, well, I'm, you know, I'm I'm
good at music or I'm good at cooking or
and then, well, that's your passion.
Develop that then. What do you love
doing? Those are good conversation to
have, but make sure that you're dealing
with someone first that has not
abandoned curiosity. It's not good to
settle on what you call your passion too
early because you then overspecialize
too early, get exhausted trying to make
that passion a thing. never was supposed
to become your thing. So stay curious
until you find your passion. Then stay
in that space until you feel
this has overtaken me. This is
effortless. This is my joy. This is what
lights me up. Then you found your
obsession. Remember, if you're advising
people like I'm doing now about how to
find your thing, remember this sequence
of events and help people locate
themselves on where they are at in this
layering. Are they in this curiosity
stage? Then empower that. Have they
found their passion? Explain. That's
going to be the most difficult part
because this is where you're going to
try and develop and get better. But your
skills are lagging behind what you feel
about this thing. Your skills will come
later. And the gap between finding your
thing and getting good at it and getting
mastery at it can be a long gap. So if
you're in your if you're in your passion
stage, I'm saying to you, let's say to
people, you pass this on to someone that
you're watching. Hey, this is your
passion. I know that wasn't a great
outcome that you had uh recently, but
that doesn't mean it's not your thing.
stay with it. You'll get better and the
results will get more consistent and
you'll start getting energy and love and
interest for it more and more because
you're moving towards your obsession.
Hope this makes sense to you guys. have
tried to simplify it all and put it into
these four stages for you to locate
where you are or help someone else
locate where they are in the journey
towards discovery of their thing that
obsession really we should be saying
because that's the ultimate place
obsession and mastery where you at
where's someone at curiosity
your passion your obsession your mastery
I think this if I' if I'd have heard
this you know decades decades ago. It
would have saved me I think a lot of
discouragement, a lot of you know
disheartened low days when I felt that
my passion of communication in my
particular case public speaking had such
poor results. And I looked at I was in
awe of those I looked at that just seem
to do it effortlessly and I thought yeah
I'm never going to be able to do that. I
probably should think of doing something
else with my life. I kept going often as
of you without without encouragement,
without someone helping me, coaching,
mentoring me to think to say to me this
is there's enough traits here to let us
know this is your thing. But just keep
doing it. You'll get better. You'll get
more consistent results. You'll get more
high days than low days. You'll get
more, you know, better chapters than
poor chapters as it were in the book of
your obsession of mastery. So if you're
in your passion, keep going. If you're
having a bad day, keep going. Get up and
go again until it becomes some sense of
mastery and then you've arrived. You've
got your thing. All right. Hope that
makes sense to you guys. Hope it was
helpful to you or someone else on your
mind as you listen to this or watch
this. Thanks for being here. Please hit
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time. Thank you.