Stop Chasing Money: How to Build Sustainable Wealth | PowerTalk show

[clears throat] All right. Hello there. Good evening to you. Thank you so much for joining us right here on part talk show. We're glad that you tuned in and please before we proceed we're inviting you to come close to our social media platforms and share with us your thoughts and your sentiments on our question of this segment as we continue before I introduce my guest and we are asking you what's harder is it making money serving money or growing it what's harder what's difficult is it making the money itself serving it or growing it we are inviting your thoughts and your feedback on the hashtag which is power talk show please don't miss out the hashtag is power talk on our social at Y254 channel and please you can also feel free to tag me on mention via the comment section at brand1. I promise you'll be sampling that feedback as the conversation continues because today it's all about you. We deep diving into matters money and making wealth. Gen Z is literally the first generation to fully ever live online thus rewriting and reshaping the rules on a journey to savings investments and wealth creation. However, with emerging technologies such as artificial intelligence, a skill could literally disappear when it's fully automated. How do you build generational wealth in such a world and so much more? And my guests joining me live in studio are going to help me unpack this. I'll be joined live in studio by Jen Giche. She's a finance and investment uh trainer alongside Francis Aaya, finance and wellness coach as well. Great to have you lady and gentlemen Karibuna Dr. Puk show. >> Thank you. >> Right. So just to kickstart this conversation, a typical Gen Z or a millennial or an ordinary Kenyan who's watching this conversation right now and uh they're working so hard each and every month, but yet there's that feeling prolonged feeling of you're always broke by mid by midmon uh no matter how you try to keep your finances in check, you keep on falling off the track. What do you change first? Do you change uh expenditure habits, lifestyle or a mind a mindset? Let me start off with you, Jen. What could be the pro problem here if we were to diagnose from a professional perspective? >> Uh, so Gran I would say, yeah, it all comes down to mindset. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Because um no matter even if like your mindset is still stuck, I'm earning low. I just started working and my salary is not a maybe enough. So you'll always have that repeat of paycheck to paycheck. Yeah. So basically that's that's one of the areas that I would say. So one of the major thing is the mindset >> right? >> Yeah. So for a typical Gen Z basically you need to ask yourself as much as I'm earning this money. Yeah. What is my mindset telling me or rather how is my mind telling me? Sometimes you find that yes they earning that income that will come. Yeah. But they have already planned for what they will be spending even before that income hits their account. >> Right. >> So it all comes back back to >> mindset. Yeah. So that is one area I will say that needs to shift. You need first to fix your mindset and tell your mind like I know this is my salary that is coming in. How do I plan for it? >> Yeah. >> And don't plan spending plan how to utilize that income. >> Okay. >> And at least as much as possible I know like that's um when it's starting off. Yeah. It's we might be they might be or most of them are survival >> mode >> mode. Okay. So for for if you're still in the survival mode, stop like don't um put off your mind and telling yourself like I I can never hack it because no matter how much I get, it's still >> Yes. >> stuck, >> right? >> By the halfway month through, I'm still where I'm I used to be. >> The other two weeks come, you go like to the cycle of maybe getting those bank I mean mobile loans. Yeah. >> And the cycle starts now continuing. >> So it becomes a financial roller coaster. Right. Interesting. So what I'm learning from you is that money is a mindset and worth too. Francis, what should be adjusted here? Is it the expenditure habits, the mindset or the lifestyle? Cuz if you're constantly sunk into this loop of by 15th, I don't know if that's midmon for everyone, but I think it depends with the person. Yeah. You're always feeling broke or rather the situation could be worse. You're broke into debt, you're being kicked out, etc. What should be adjusted for a better life? >> Thank you. Thank you uh for having us and for having me on this show. Uh money loves order. >> Mhm. >> That's where I just want to start from. So for every Gen Z watching this channel and any other person who is watching, it's important to know that money loves order. >> Yeah. >> And the easiest way to give order especially when money is concerned is through a simple tool we call budgeting. >> Right. >> That if I put in a budget and work strictly towards my budget >> Mhm. then no matter how much uh money I earn you know it might be little it might be more >> I'll be able to navigate through the entire month so budgeting is a tool that is important for all of us >> budgeting is a tool that will help us create order in terms of uh when it comes to money >> budgeting is a tool that will bring happiness even around payday >> if you do not have order with your money you'll be the most angry person around pay because you've gone into a lot here and there. >> Yes. >> And because people already have mastered your payday structure, >> around everyone else you borrowed from would want and expect their money back >> and so everyone will be calling you. So when every other person is happy that they have been paid >> on the other side, you are the most angry person around that time. So in a nutshell, money loves order. Budgeting brings order. And there are many tools of budgeting that we we we can work around and we'll be discussing as we go by. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yes. And the most important one is what we call a a 50 30 20 budgeting tool, >> right? >> That will help bring that order. >> Absolutely. So she's mentioned about mindset and you can as well piggyback on our comment section and react to what we've asked you so that we continue to sample your feedback and your engagement as we continue. But also if you want to jet set yourself on the journey to wealth creation, I'm sure it begins at some point with a solid income. If you are to look at the bigger panoramic picture of our country right now, the state we're in, I don't know if the economy uh is favoring anyone, maybe what does sustainable wealth creation for the Gen Z's look like in the current world we living in, Francis? >> Yes. And I want to agree with with the with the mindset pattern >> and that's why uh when I bring in the issue of budgeting uh ordinarily if you have a way of arranging your money in an orderly manner that will [clears throat] then help you even live within standards because many of times some of the problems you are getting in is not because the money is not enough >> right >> but it's not it's because the money is not being properly utilized >> and that's why you find a scenario where someone who is earning And I want to use figures. For instance, someone who is earning say 500,000 >> gets broke even before the month goes away. It is because of the lifestyle they are living. >> Right? >> But someone else who earns 50,000 >> with a proper order through >> that then leaves us with a big question. >> Are we living for ourselves or we are living for others? >> Right? That's a good question. Who are you living for? >> Yeah. >> Yes. Are you living for yourself or you are living for others? Especially in this world where we have Instagram, Snapchat and all those things that show we used to show our life. >> Many of times we follow people and some who are living very fake lives >> and we want to get ourselves to that to that level of life. >> And so we we we find ourselves digging into pockets that are not ours. >> Basically we are borrowing what she talked about mobile apps, Shillocks of this world and the cycle continues. So it's important we work on order. It's important we live within ourselves, our means and it's important we live our own lives without copying the others. That is the simplest way for us to start climbing the ladder of wealth creation. >> Yeah. So uh gen wealth creation does it basically start with having some sort of an income like does it have to include money or you can have because you know when you look at how millennials were raised uh possibly maybe for them being wealth it could combine both worlds of finances and assets having cows having land and all those things accumulate to actually wealth and I believe they still make sense even in the current world today if you to look at that is that maybe a missing gap in terms of skills like financial financial literacy skills that maybe this generation is not fully equipped or it touches even across board cuz for you to build wealth there's some disciplines you must you know put in place yeah what do you have for that place >> so now um like you've talked about genz's millennials I would start beginning by saying creating wealth starts when you're still a baby >> um and for this matter I look at I am a very big advocate to for financial literacy for us to educate our kids as young as they are they hit age seven. >> Why do I say creating wealth starts at that age? Because when they they seven years they are now they start understanding like yeah mom and dad goes to work they earn income but the the deep question will be where does this what is this income where does money come from from work >> basically and when they get uh that money what do I need to do with it that is now the start the point where we start now showing a kid to delay their gratification so that now when they grow older you get your first income you not only go ahead and start spending. You have already learned about you have already learned about um delaying your gratification. Back to your question now. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You see why most Gen Z's sometimes um rush to maybe doing investments a hype investments and so on. Yeah. They the it's the generation that grew up in social media, >> right? >> I mean information is everywhere. they grew up knowing it's I I think they have information overload because if it's even investments you just go to AI they it will just explain everything but the big question is are they able to at least actualize what they the information they're getting and are they able to see that information because the moment you get income or how or rather how now you you get um you start creating wealth you get income that is earning then the next ladder be keep a bit of it. I'm not telling you not to spend. I'm not telling you not to enjoy life. But at least get even a 10% or a 15%. Keep it. Out of that keeping it, you're saving. Right now, you start building it. From what you're saving, you start now kidoid doing what? Building what you have put aside. And when you're building it, stop going with the hype. Don't rush into uh I know crypto, I know forex just because that oh they promise daily returns. I don't want to mention that money market. Yeah, money market is good. >> Mhm. >> Understand your risk appetite. >> Then now do a bit of uh due diligence on what you want to invest on >> in terms of do they are they well licensed and all that. If I'm if I don't want to to sum myself in a lot of uh that knowledge you can start with the investments that are low risk. >> If you're a high-risk person and you want to go ahead and invest in that, ask yourself what is my major goal? Now you start doing goal based investing. >> Then now out of that is now when you start growing wealth and finally you'll get to the ladder of wealth creation. >> Yeah. So let me ask you uh I think we off the air we had tried to shine the light on it a little bit for people that instantly get like um somebody or you win a lottery so to say >> if you are lucky you get uh 15 M. What really happens to these people if you are to be a doctor and diagn within a duration of three, four, five months, they have nothing. They're broke. They're back again to the cycle. What usually happens when big cash called hard cash hits your account. What happens to people? They end up broke. >> I'll I'll I'll agree with Francis what uh he said earlier. Money needs order. But at the same time I'll also add on top financial literacy is a key skill that almost everyone should have and actually statistics shows 80% to 83% are able to access financial services and all that but only 48% >> Mhm. have financial are financial literate basically >> that's for the general public or generation everyone >> or even the boomers >> even the boomer hey the boomers you stop there >> genz's actually show the research shows at least them for them because of AI and everything they are able to understand slightly about financial literacy >> that person who gets that huge amount maybe you know um winning a lottery and all that >> why they all of a sudden that money is no longer there it's because they didn't have a plan. You remember when I was talking about you earn, you keep a bit of it and you remember in your head you have to have a goal in mind of what you will ever want to do. >> If you get a huge lumpsum, if you didn't have a goal in mind, what will happen? You'll start rushing to lifestyle inflation >> and you start keeping up with your friends and who who owns what and who owns what. Rushing into bad decisions and yet you didn't even have a plan for it. So if you had a plan prior, you might end up keeping that money longer and that money can even just start bringing you a bit of either passive income or portfolio income. So basically it's lack of a plan. So as as long as someone has even if you just have that small income start earning it, keep it make a plan. So basically that's um that's what I would say. Right. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> All right. All right, let me go to you Francis. How does wellness affect as well the ability of a person since you're also a wellness coach and I'm trying to loop in a mental health aspect. How does wellness affect the general perspective of a person's let's say in terms of their posture how they can pursue a journey to you know creating wealth and I also understand if you learn how to uh I think she's explained very well if you use the rule that you said 50 is it 50 30 20 10 >> yes does it even work anymore uh some some some say that's just expertise jargon so how can a person find themselves on the right trajectory in terms of a wellness perspective you. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh one I would want just to uh dig in a bit of what she she said uh especially when money comes in in jackpots and things like those. There's a saying that says easy come easy go. >> And so one of the mindsets that will be emanating from that is that the same way I made that money I can make tomorrow. And that sometimes is a fallacy. So it is important for for for us to think through and just work through methods of making money that uh and I like I I I like the word she used delaying gratification. >> Yeah. >> That sometimes there are things you can postpone for tomorrow. >> Yeah. >> But essentially when we talk about wellness uh when you say someone is financially well it does not necessarily mean they have a lot of money. It means whatever it is they are able to make they can be they have an order they have order in terms of utilization. >> Yes. >> That you you are able to utilize that which you have in a proper way and that if I can equate it to to health when someone is is healthy. >> Yeah. >> Is this someone who's taking care of their body they checking what they eat they are doing a bit of exercise and walking here and there. So that qualifies them to be healthy in terms of health. The same thing will happen into my money that when you have money and you are able to put your money in order, you are able to to to work out investments, to work out utilization in a proper guided manner, >> then that person is well. Now on the contrary, if you do not put such things into check, then a lot of things could go wrong. One of the many things that could go wrong is that when you do not have order of money, stress comes in. >> And when stress kicks in, stress and anxiety kick in. >> Yeah. >> That when when when a bill is is is due, say rent is due and you do not have money, >> uh stress will kick in. >> Right. >> When when schools are about to open and you do not have that as a plan, >> yeah, >> stress will kick in. But the stress will kick in more if you know you had this money >> but the money has just disappeared. So that's why I would say it is important to have that order. It is important to budget for the money. It is important to live within your means and it is important to live for yourself and not live because others are leaving. And this illustration I like giving uh we have these two people they work for the same uh company. Let me use Y254 on this matter. and both earn 100,000 >> right >> then these two people one of them has a parent who had a trust so which means they might be old but they are still earning from what their parents invested >> right >> but this other person is just relying on this job >> so both earn 100 as an artistation >> then this one who doesn't have a trust decides to move to another house because this other one has moved to that house >> Mhm. This one who doesn't have a trust for instance will struggle to get by because say they move into a house that they do 50,000 so half of that money is gone. >> But this other one who probably the trust pays another 50,000 >> they still have the 100,000 intact. Yeah. >> in disciplined decisions. >> And in the end, especially among now the genesis that you you you tend to see the cases of even suicide go on the rise because >> someone is living a life they cannot sustain. Not because they do not earn, not because they do not have an income coming through, but it is because they are living way beyond their means. The debts now start coming in, they start choking them off and eventually they are not able to sustain >> and they get into such decisions like uh like suicide and all that. So it's important to work and live within our means, >> right? >> Don't copy paste >> and especially for the genesis, you know. >> Yeah. because they live in a social media fed world where everything is all about the aesthetics. Yeah. So, it's only right I do what my friend is doing because she's an influencer or she has a podcast or she's a celebrity. So, peer-to-peer influence contributes. But like you said, if you know your goal and you have the financial literacy skill, you definitely get that. But let me get to you Jim. >> What is the smartest money move one can make if the income is very small and maybe also irregular? It's not consistent but it's certain it might come or it will come eventually at some point. What is the smartest money move they can make so that they find themselves stable? Cuz you serve and then what happens next? Yeah. >> Right. >> You remember when I said you earn, you keep, you build and then you start growing and then now wealth comes in. Yeah. >> So when you you earn maybe your income is not even regular, >> right? Try as much as possible identify first these are my whole expenses. I agree with Frances the 5030 rule but I mean the 50 30 20 rule. Yeah. But for me there's something I always go with. I tell someone money is very personal. So in this case do a zerobased budget. What do I mean by this? You see you're earning and that income that you're earning make sure like yes you understand these are my expenses. This is what I need to put aside. And sometimes you might not even have an extra to put aside because you're in a survival mode. But now what we can do is you can try as much as possible. This income I'm earning these are my fully expenses. I can [snorts] try as much as possible to try ways on how I can increase a skill that can earn me an extra shilling. When I when I talk about an extra skill, maybe you've been employed and you're in commission maybe situation and in sales that situation income will come today, next month there's no income, but there's a month that you'll make create a lot of money. That month that you create a lot of money. Yeah. Make sure you don't spend all of it. Have at least a limit. I'll always use maybe let's talk about 30,000. So the moment you get 50,000 this extra 20 that you have put it aside for a rainy month >> then they stability will come but when you start even earning that um that kiddogo income that you have yeah >> there something we call emergency fund >> start putting aside even just a little as a,500 shillings here and there so that in case of even a major uh emergency or a small emergency popping up you still have somewhere where you can go get your money. >> Right? >> So basically it's just about looking at your expenses, looking at your needs. >> What do I need currently? >> This is the limit. I can never go past this spending. >> Right? >> The moment I get extra money, this is to put aside. >> The money that you put aside, what can I do more to have to increase that income? >> If it's a I always make this joke. uh it's I think it's only in Africa where people don't have even three jobs or two jobs but here >> they have it you know the on the digital platforms they have a 9 to5 but still they're an entrepreneur or an influencer >> but how what percentage or how many do that because you have genes on the extreme side >> there are those who they like they hustle they have those two jobs but majority on the other side are reluctant >> right >> so it's the question of um where do you lie? >> Do you want just to like I'm okay with just my 8 to 5 job or can I do something extra to just get in that income >> right? >> So basically even if you have that small income >> look for ways even if it's going for getting that an extra certification >> look for other ways to slightly increase that income. It's I will um I think I can talk and talk but >> sure >> when we're looking at genes and millennials there is a very big difference. >> Yeah. Generational gap. >> Yeah. Millennials we we were we grew up being told to work hard and save. Work hard and save. >> Actually get a job and get employed right and save it. Yeah. >> But Jenz is a bit different >> right. >> It's Yeah. because of even the information overload >> also access to information as well but and digital platform I'm getting to you Francis in a bit but we're asking you on our social media what's harder is it making money uh saving money or growing it what's the most difficult thing between uh making money saving it or growing there's feedback coming through right um mangal madini mangal it's interesting you have madeni in the middle of your name saving money saving money is definitely I think a big big big uh problem with almost each and everyone nation saving. Okay. Making money means of how to actually generate it. Lenny let me making money and saving is easy but investing bro that's hard. So yeah so you can have the money but still you don't know where to invest or how to invest it. I'd like to hear my reactions as well for my guest on the sim Frederick Young Kingsley making money. So it's a mix it's a mixture of of it's hard to make the money others it's difficult to save. Maybe you can react on it too as well before we move ahead uh from the feedback that's come through. >> Thank you. >> Why are people having it difficult to save their money and yet they have it and why are others having it difficult to even now make that money? I think one of the the things will be the the literacy part and I love what she does in her field just to educate people more on uh on uh on savings and investment and growing your money and so >> sometimes we might think that even the genz's know and as we've talked about overload information overload >> so it's important to sit down with with an expert >> and then because our needs are different the money we have is different. So it's important again to sit down with a with with a with with an expert just so that you could walk through the journey and see the areas you could utilize in terms of saving and even in terms of investment as someone has said >> so it's important to have someone work with someone that journey and uh and then just get to know a few things. Uh one of the things I would pick from saving is difficult or investing is difficult >> that sometimes when we get extra money as Jen would explain that sometimes especially if your salary or income is regular >> that many of times our mindset have been tuned to that when we get extra money we increase >> our expenditure. >> Yeah. You adjust your lifestyle. >> You adjust your lifestyle. >> Isn't Isn't it supposed to be that way? Imagine you you've just been tripled your income. you're getting a mill should you be living like you're earning 50k? Now this is what I usually tell people and that's why I'll go back to the budgeting whichever method of budgeting you want to use whether it is 5030 whether it is zero whether it is the envelope budgeting system >> but this is what would basically I would advise someone to do >> right >> if you already have a budget in place it means I'm able to execute my life expenses with this money that I get >> meaning any extra income that comes in has to be divided into two and this is what I usually advise people to adjust your lifestyle by 50% of that increment >> but this 50% of the increment the remaining 50% should now then go into more saving more investment because then this this what basically this will mean if I was earning 100,000 >> and I have been given a 20,000 increment >> it means I was able to do my life and even save if I had a budget with this 100,000 >> but now that I have this 20 10,000 I can add to improving my life so that again we We are not telling people to live like >> paw pals >> but this other 10% can it then sorry this other 50% the 10,000 extra 10,000 can it then now go into a structure to help you make more so that on a rainy day this money can save you because money has one simple language >> save me today I will save you tomorrow >> right >> but if you consume all today >> then tomorrow life happens >> right >> where do you run Yes, I think now the emergency fund if you had Japan you'll definitely go there but also let me ask you uh Jen >> you have invested the money you've earned it you've invested it now what happens next how do you grow it grow it into the journey of wealth >> cuz uh when you look at the mindset of Jenz I think you're all about aesthetics and you know showing off yes it's a good lifestyle but it costs you but he has mentioned really well do a lifestyle audit and ensure that you know you uh you you find a way of dividing either you're adjusting well so that your money and your lif lifestyle fits in the same same road. So how do you grow your money into wealth and especially in the current world you're living in today? >> What does wealth really look like? Does it still sound in the name of land, cars, property etc. or it's different for both generations, Gen Z, boomers and millennials? >> Uh thank you Brian. So uh I'll I'll start somewhere a bit um far. when you start earning money and when you start now going into the journey of investing first there's a very important element that someone needs to do protection and when I talk about protection is at least build a buffer like having an emergency fund have the right insurance covers like or rather the insurance policies that are necessary so that you have started like now building wealth you have protection laid um that layer Now you can now invest safely. >> Why do I mean by this? If you don't have protection in between, whatever you invest, anything coming or an emergency, a major emergency coming in, what happens? You go ahead and withdraw all your emergency um I mean all your investments to cater for this emergency that has popped. So before building or creating any any investment portfolio, you have first to do what? Protect. You have to do protection and protection. insurance too. >> Yes, you have the first thing for protection is creating an emergency fund. Analyze there's people who say 6 months of your expenses. There are people who say 6 months of gross. There are people who say uh 3 months. But for me, I always say >> analyze your family. You might say 6 months of expenses, but back at home, you have a very huge um >> how do I family that you're supporting. We call it love tax. People say black tax but for me I say love tax because we doing it out of love right so consider even those people so when you create that buffer come now to insurance you need health insurance if you're a bread winner you need life insurance so that anything happening you won't leave these people just like that >> now come now to investing >> so that when you start investing I always say investment is a long-term journey and when it comes to investing you have to analyze what um in terms of risk how re what uh risk profile do I have? Am I a risk taker? Am I a risk averse? Am I I don't maybe take too much risk so that you can now know which vehicles am I going to invest my money. If I'm not a risk taker, >> simple I can put my money in. Maybe mmf maybe special special funds maybe risk >> high risk or you know if I'm a risk taker and maybe at the same time I love time my in terms of time horizon I can do longevity. I can now start investing in stocks but don't expect now you want uh quick money and so you you had like investing in stock like there's a current IPO that is being launched the the Dangote refinery and you start you go ahead and jump into it without understanding do I really need this money next year >> right >> do I what's the timeline um of what is my risk appetite >> unlike that person who would have gone for a conservative investment and they would have done a better um they will be better off like that. Then the other question comes in like maybe you want to invest maybe in a slightly riskier vehicle but you don't have that full amount right now >> like special funds for example most companies are giving um the capital to start >> right >> you can start by putting that money as it grows like in an MMF >> look the other side is when I'm doing my investment I want maybe to do T bills and bonds I hear millennials are doing that a lot >> treasury bonds >> yeah treasury bonds and T bills I'm saying says, "I hear millennials are investing in T bills and bonds a lot." But the question comes in, are you understanding what T bills and bonds are? You go to the internet, you Google and all that. You get into a bond to as well. >> You get into a bond yet that bond was supposed to maybe take 5 years. What happens the second third year you want that money. >> Mhm. >> So what you go to the secondary market and sometimes you might even resell that bond at a at a loss. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. So basically it's understanding yes I've started I've created protection I've started investing but what exactly am I investing and why am I investing what's my goal at the end of it all so that I can select the correct vehicle with correct investment >> right >> absolutely yeah you're right on that one but also uh Francis I'm thinking if I'm investing my money into uh the areas that she has mentioned >> I want to receive my returns really quickly yeah the get rich quick mentality cuz also I don't want it to take long. If I'm investing 200k, I want by maybe if it's a 6 month plan, I want to have 1.2 m to us end of the year. Yeah. So, how do you get patient in that journey as well? Cuz I understand there's mistakes in between, but also people get scammed, you know, but you still want your returns. Yeah. So, how do you help as a finance uh wellness coach, how do you help a person journey through that trajectory? >> Yes. And I I love that she she's illustrated it so well. And so there has to be there's a thin line and I've used this before to tell my audience. There's a thin line between knowledge and wisdom. >> And this thin line is what gets most people uh scammed, what gets people losing their money. Because we we let's let's be realistic. You've invested 200,000. >> Yeah. >> And you are being told in about 6 months you'll get 1.2 2 million, >> right? >> You might have used your knowledge to to to research about this, to to read about this, but that now thin line between knowledge and wisdom must kick in. >> You must ask yourself, >> is this really true, >> right? >> And so it is important for people to have goals and these goals we must divide them into short-term. >> What do I want to do in the meantime? >> This what do I need to do in the next 10 years? what do I need to do uh probably when I get retired or something like that. So then when we have that put together we must now ask ourselves what type of risk do I want to go in? >> Do I want to put all my money in one basket? >> Do I want to invest every other thing in special funds? What if it goes down? >> Because those are questions we have to ask ourselves. >> So if you have money you have to divide it to divide it into segments >> and I need to have this purely as my emergency fund. Emergency fund basically means if something happens I'm able to rec >> into into shares for instance >> that they [clears throat] can trade shares can trade and in the end I'll get my money. So we must be conscious of time we must be conscious of the risk appetite and you must be conscious of the p we use. >> Absolutely. Uh let's take a break on that note but before we do asking you what's harder is it making money saving money or growing it. When we come back, we'll also be looking at uh what exactly does wealth look like in 2026 and for the future to come. >> So, let's take a break and we'll be right back in a bit. All right, thank you for staying with us. Welcome back. You're still watching part of show. I'm Bran S. Before we went on a break, we asked you what's harder. Is it making money, saving money or growing it? What's difficult? And feedback's still uh trickling in. Uh let's see what you guys are saying on the hashtag which is part of show. Is it harder to make money, invest it, grow it or uh right with Yes, that's the question. Is what's harder? Making money, saving money, or growing money. Let's go. Feedback. What are you guys saying on the hashtag sponsorship show? Yes, there we go. Uh, Mangali Madeni, I think we had a sample part of that too as well. All right. Uh, Emmanuel, growing money. So, yes, you can literally invest it, but it's not growing. I think uh, Jen has explained before we even went on a break, right? Maybe you need to also get a job too as well or become an entrepreneur just to kickstart as well. making money is the problem right so you can see it's a mixture of both Freddy Jama all of them Jose right continue sending in your feedback on the hashtag which is part of show as we continue our guest Kevin Sam you notice it is a cycle you have to make serve invest make with investment then save for another opportunity to make more And then spending money, you make money. You grow the money. But spending money, oh my goodness. I think at some point Francis had tried to explain that to as well. So relevant still. So you can see it's a mixture of both. Yeah. But before we actually went on a break, I had asked you uh Francis, you can go first. What does wealth in 2026 look like for Gen Z? Because they're all about, you know, rent investing. the rather higher um the biggest mansion in Grundlesia and experience living there than owning it and you know and when you look at generational gaps as well for millennials they rather own it they rather own land as a status symbol of like value of owning you know something that's close to wealth so what does wealth in 2026 look like for Gen Z and I will start from where myself and my generation were which is millennials uh we used to see our parents buy lands here and there. You have a capis in Camulu. You have another one in Gitangela, you have another one in in so forth. But for this generation uh they they would rather do e investments. >> E investment means uh you are sleeping but your money is working for you. And one of the things that I usually adise my older audience is that do not for this generation don't buy land that you as an inheritance for instance and and a story is told when I went to a certain forum and this parent was giving an example that they bought a piece of land in his sena and so one Sunday they forced their 18 and 21 year old children to accompany them to go to in the middle of just somewhere there >> to go and be shown land >> right >> as because it The parent had assumed that will be their inheritance. And the son asked the dad meaning you want me to come and be looking for this chamba or to come invest in this in this part of the world. So for for Jenz is they they focus more on e investments they focus more on uh money money working for them without them necessarily being there. And that's why they because they work mostly remotely for those who work remotely. don't see a need of owning a car when they can rent one when they want to use it >> right for experience for convenience >> which is which is I would want to support if for us we used to buy cars because others were buying >> we used to build houses even in the farthest of places and that's why you see people of millennials and those other generations someone would leave their own home at 3:00 a.m. because of uh traffic on Mombasar for instance and they work somewhere in wastland. So someone has to get to their home very late >> and come in come to work again very early and so they miss a lot of of opportunities even to bond with their own children and most of the time when you look through it is because they they bought and invested because others were doing it. for they are working that if renting a house and having convenience for me getting to my workplace and for me attending to my other things is the best thing to do that way you analyze the situation depending what you do if you buying a car for instance a car that you might not even drive in another like like two weeks because you work remotely and do everything remotely it's not a a way I would call smart investment you'd rather not have on that rent one because there are many companies that can rent you cars or even take a cab to another next location. So I think that is the way to go and as parents we should encourage our children to get into investments mostly and not force the issue of land and some part of this country where they say meaning land is translated so so >> but it's right land appreciates anyways still wealth so to say J is like heck no >> and and I agree land appreciates >> but let me give you a live scenario. >> Mhm. If you ever get if if you have 10 pieces of land and you get into a serious emergency, one of the hardest things to dispose in this country right now is land. >> Mhm. >> And so, as I said earlier, don't put all your baskets, all your fruits in one basket, right? >> You have to be smart. You have to to work with the current world >> and you have to to work with the current technology. Yes. >> So, there are there are investments you can do technologically and a simple one like money market fund. I put in my million. I know it will make me some money at the end of it. >> Okay. >> Rather than that 1 million buying land and say for example 200 km from Nairobi and I know it will appreciate at some point but it is not guaranteed >> right. Uh J you're opposed to it like land for Gen Z it's no longer a sign of wealth anymore. It's no longer actually part of wealth anymore. Maybe what do you think has changed for the Gen Z? Because I'm also I'm also thinking if you're heading towards that trajectory then what is the right uh money let's say wealth wealth tour system that you should put in place as you turn older that should start working for you right now but you're opposed to that as well. What's your view? >> I'm not opposed to to that. Okay. >> I actually agree with what uh Francis saying. >> Oh you agree land is part of wealth and it still appreciates. >> Depends. >> Oh it depends. >> Yes. I look at not only like forens this is now to everyone including the boomers actually >> if you own land if it's on a place just you just waiting for it to appreciate >> don't count it as as an investment >> because who said that land will appreciate or if a dump site comes next uh and it's created next to to your land will it even appreciate or depreciate >> but if you have land start leasing it out it's bringing in some passive income. Now that's investing. Basically, as long as that land is >> working when you're sleeping and it's bringing in something small, now that is now when I will refer to it as >> as in as an investment uh product. >> If you can't um list it and you it's in a place that is very fertile, why can't you start planting something? You don't have like time to go looking for maybe the what do we call maybe maze once in a while. plant trees >> like just do something on that land >> get a business rented. >> Yeah. Lease it out and start getting in. That is now the only time I can refer to as land as being an investment. >> Right. >> There are so many ways when we look at real estate and in terms of land on how people can do proper investing like you get a huge chunk of land you become a developer like slice it out, sell it out, make your money. So it all depends. But all the days we were when we were growing up like Francis has said we were being told like when you get your first income you do what you buy land >> but now the question is or rather that uh scenario is changing too why are you buying that land I don't want to have that land why can't I even buy rates at the end of it all I'm still investing in real estate >> yes >> so yeah so it all comes down to >> what you understand in terms of >> the investment scenario >> okay absolutely And and I had asked you what is a wealth system for for instance you want by 30 when 40m what is wealth a wealth creation system or two that should one install especially for the genz before they turn 30 >> okay um I'll start also defining what wealth is >> right please >> for me >> wealth is basically freedom >> and we all define freedom in different ways how you define wealth according to you brand is traveling the So if at all it's traveling the world, why are you focused on maybe putting so much onto conservative investments while you can just be putting your money in money market anytime you want to travel? That's freedom >> for me. I I am viewing um wealth as leaving it to like as generation creating generational wealth to my babies. You all someone else doesn't want to have kids. They want just to enjoy. So it all comes down to what does >> wealth mean to me and like you have said you've asked me like um someone wants to to >> to to have 40 m by the time they're 30. So there's something we call freedom number. >> I'm continuing with from what I've defined, >> right? >> Why do you need that 40 million by the time you're turning 40? Why >> when you calculate >> it can't be 30? >> Yeah. 30 40. No, no, no. It actually >> is too early. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It actually >> depends. It depends on Yeah. Even most >> It actually depends. >> Most tech CEOs are actually 20. >> Yeah, it depends on Yeah, it depends. >> Especially in the Gen Z world. >> Maybe that is your freedom number. the the 40 million by the time I turn 30. So between the age you are in and your >> your supposedly that 30 years what do you need to do? >> Of course you can't just go risking all your money >> because at the same time if you get into too risky investment you might lose everything >> but at the same time you can get a skill like you have said being a techsavvy you can get a skill that can get you can propel you there but the question will be even if I get that skill how do I get there? Do I really need investors? How do I get these investors? How do I communicate to the investors now um buying into my idea? So, it all comes down to exactly this is your freedom number. This is the timeline, the timeline you have. What am I going to do towards that and what am I doing now to achieve that? >> Right. Absolutely. So, picture please ensure that you do that. But let me ask you Francis for a Gen Z who is living in a world where now with emerging technologies like artificial intelligence there robotics. The other day we were doing a story about a restaurant that uses robotic waiters but they're working alongside with humans. A skill could literally be automated and >> you end up you know losing that opportunity. From a wellness perspective too as well. How do you advise uh a person in the current world today to adjust to that reality? Because uh when you look at what some of these tech CEOs and these AI developers are saying, they're actually warning I think um Bill Gates has been on the front line saying some jobs will be lost. So probably if you are in a certain area that was of service, you are likely either to be replaced by a robot or AI and that maybe was your only main money making skill. So how do you help this person? >> Okay, one of the the the easiest tools of making money is actually discipline. M >> because discipline has to kick in and you start knowing early that one I'm making this money can I then cultivate the discipline first of all of even saving it and even investing it because you can get all the money as I said in the beginning but because you do not have the discipline and the consistency to work for it to make money for you or to make extra income for you that money will just disappear into thin air. So one has to keep discipline. Two, one has to become innovative and what I mean by innovative is this. If I'm working as a whatever job I'm doing, am I just sitting back and hoping that more wealth will drop from heaven like mana or am I trying to up my skill so that as the technology advances I'm able to meet it at its advancement level. So discipline and consistency is key. Mhm. >> Growing out of what you do is also key and it's also important. I usually tell this to people when came about >> it really opened up literally people's minds that I can literally work from home. >> I can go to my 8 9 to5 or 8 to 5 but still be able to do something else on the >> the side on the side. I can I can try to harness my skill by becoming more open to these technologies and all that and and even when it comes to upping our skills we have passed that era where you had to sit in class throughout to learn. >> Yeah. People who are in this country and they are studying in the US. >> Yeah. >> Or they're here and working for a company in Atlanta. >> Yes. I I I'm in the insurance world where I where I work my 8 to5 and I have clients that I have never I have never seen in my 12 years of of of of experience because someone is working in Atlanta from Kenya. Someone is working for a big tech from my village back in >> and so we you have to really grow with a with a growing trend but two things must still remain >> discipline and consistency >> without without those two things >> you'll watch others grow >> and you'll either become clapping for them clapping for them or you'll be whining >> that others probably are visiting >> [laughter] >> It's a normal conventional Kenyan sto here and there. But also uh before we talk about your book with Jen, you have two incredible books, but we'll talk about them shortly as we exit. Uh a Kenyan who has 5,000 Kenya shillings right now. It's midmon. I know we're heading there. It depends with your midmon and how it looks like. uh how can they begin a journey of wealth creation if you are to apply or they've just come into your office or they're in your training session they're telling you you know what as they say millionaire at 27 >> what should they start doing right now the immediate step they should take >> the first thing they need to do yeah um I'll echo what Francis said when they come like when someone okay when someone comes and tells me I have 5,000 what do I do with it. I tell them I can't help you. >> Why? >> The first thing you need to do is first write down your goals. >> Remember when Francis said short-term, medium-term and long-term? That is the first thing we start. >> You will come, we sit down, we write down your goals. The 5,000 now we will be able now to divide it. This one will get my shortterm, maybe 2,000 for shortterm, 2,000 for medium, and 1,000 for long-term. Or maybe the short term is more urgent. So why not like put 4,000 on the short term and 500 and 500. So when you come to my office and just tell me I have maybe even just 100,000 100,000 I want to invest. I have 5,000 where do I start? >> The starting point is sit down go on a money date actually. Yeah. When I talk about money date it's between you and your money. >> Yeah. So you're speaking to your money. >> You're speaking to your money. Money is a tool basically. So when you're sitting with it and you're talking to it, you're on a date analyze. Yeah, this are now my goals >> from actually there you'll have a specific structure on how now you start hitting on your goals and achieving >> like coming closer to attaining your wealth basically. Yeah, >> absolutely. We are exiting. We are on a timeout B and I want you to shortly in 30 seconds highlight the art to master your finances and wealth how if somebody will purchase these books uh what will they get from it? So for the art to master your finances is purely a personal finance book. I tried as much as possible to simplify it and avoid the huge jargon and try give scenarios and stories about what a common person goes through. So it basically starts with what we have been talking about emergency fund all the way to estate planning. So it's a simple financial planning tool >> right. So financial planning tools from the art to master your finances wealth how >> it's for the women. >> Mhm. I I've tried to speak to every woman depending on the age you are whether you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, legacy age, 50s. So I've tried to when I wrote uh wealthi it's a very dear book to me because some of the stories that I've written are real stories and scenarios that women go through and how to maneuver around when it comes to money. >> So it's a book talking to women but addressing all the financial matters that we women go through go through. Please uh tell them in one second where they can buy the book too as well. >> You can purchase Yeah, you can purchase from our website at ww.japesh at I mean ww.japesh.com or you can call us at 074300LE2 I'll repeat that 074300LE2 >> right yes >> uh Francis where can they get you on LinkedIn for anything consultations etc. So because we are talking to Jenz's today, let me give them my Tik Tok page which is a higher finance and wellness >> a higher finance and wellness and I'm also available on 0723 >> right >> 470 >> 117 0723 470 1117 >> right thank you I'm sure they'll be flocking your DMs and calling in really fast thank you so much for anything we've not mentioned please ensure that you get in touch plug in with them Jen Thank you, TJ, finance and investment trainer alongside Francis Hire, finance and wellness coach. Thank you both for being here and all the best. >> Thank you. >> All right, we want to thank you as well for watching us from 7:00 p.m. till right now. 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