Stocks Just Hit ANOTHER Record High - WTF Is Happening?! | MeetKevin

This is going to be the most frustrating rally ever. >> AI giants Nvidia, OpenAI, and Oracle have built a circular network. >> Is it easier to build wealth right now for the average person in 2026? Unfortunately, AI doesn't make people wealthy unless they're like at the top tier of being able to use AI. But the people who will make most of the profits will be the shareholders, which is scary. >> When [music] folks are saying this is a red flag, you don't necessarily see it that way. >> Nobody saw this company. What do you think is the biggest risk to the economy right now that no one's talking about? All that crap's going to implode one day. It's all going to zero one day. They're going to overbuild and it's all going to crash. So, if there's any motivation to leave from all of this, I would say every single year from now over the next 10 years, it's just going to get harder and harder and harder. So, I don't know where it all comes out. I don't know when it's all going to collapse, but it's going to be ugly and a lot of people are going to get really hurt and leverage ETFs are going to go to zero. Kevin, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour. Glad to be back. >> Really appreciate it, man. So, I'm curious. The big short investor, Michael Bur said, "The stock market is minutes away from a bloody crash. Stocks are hitting a record high, up 19% since the March bottom." Jack was curious about this one. What stocks have you made the most money on? >> Oo, well, let's answer that. Uh, first, Michael Bur is probably right. Uh, I actually think that this market is going to see a whole lot more crazy ups and downs because what's gotten really popular lately has been super concentration and leveraged ETFs. So, you see it like at the end of the day, in the beginning of the day, things just go crazy up and down. And I think we're going to see that craziness even like these are going to be the most volatile years I bet over the next few years because I kind of think a lot of people are like it can't go higher and watch the I follow the QQQ the NASDAQ 100. It's going to go through like a thousand and people are going to be like what? This isn't fair. Why does it keep going up? It shouldn't. >> But between here and there Bur's probably going to be right and be like see I told you there was a 19% dip and then it goes right back up. It's crazy right now. So what about the stock? So on the stock uh most money in the last like six months circle actually bought it around 68 and then of course it fell to like 58. I'm really good at like buying when it's still like kind of got some room to go down like timing that bottom so hard. Uh but now it's like 120 130 and I'm like okay great this that's a really good play. Uh you know longer term over last four or five years Nvidia has been really great. Uh, but you know, then they're also losers as part of that. Uh, more recently, like the hell with Netflix. I shouldn't say bad words on the show and the ice coffee, but I bought Netflix made money from my buys when they were going through that whole Warner Brothers crap, but recently they just keep bleeding and they are such money makers. Nobody realizes they'll probably exceed the advertising that that, you know, YouTube's growth has. So, YouTube's advertising growth, >> Netflix is going to blow it out of the water. Nobody's even paying attention to it. >> And what stock over your lifetime have you made the most money on? >> Oh, by far Tesla. [laughter] >> Yeah, I remember, man. I think it was in 2020 or 2021. >> You showed me I think it was like a JP Morgan account. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. >> I'm just going to say there was $40 million in >> Oh, yeah. [laughter] >> And I remember looking at that and just thinking the only thing I would do I wanted to click sell for you. >> I I know. Just sell everything, right? >> I wanted you to sell so badly and just lock it in. And the crazy thing is it'd be like, you know, here in California, you pay like 35% in gains taxes, [laughter] you know, since you got even even the long term, right? Short term you'd be at 55% gone. Poof. More than half. >> Yeah. But even then, you would walk away in the 20s. >> That's true. >> And I think I told you back then, man, I would just take a year off, >> right? >> Yeah. Just chill. How much did you put into Tesla? Was that all Tesla gains? Like what did that $40 million look like? cuz I swear I blinked my eyes and all of the sudden it was just like everyone here and Kevin was leading the charge by miles. >> I wouldn't say it was all Tesla. There was a chunk of it um I would say about $8 million of it was margin. Uh so not all of that 40 was was and I have a video on this somewhere where I break down like how much of it is margin or whatever. Uh so the video would be a really good reference to look up, you know, the $40 million portfolio. I want to say my buying cuz I bought Tesla. I remember before COVID in like 2017 I'm like gosh I got 500 grand in Tesla and then it went down it was like 300 grand you know and I'm like ah and everybody's leaving me comments like you're such a loser cuz it was during production hell with uh with the Model 3. Same was true by the way when I bought Nvidia in uh when I launched my ETF back at the end of 22. I bought a ton of Nvidia at the same time and it just went down another like 20% and everybody's making fun of me go I want to lose her. That was a six or seven figure return on that. Multi-millions of dollars from Nvidia. Tesla was probably 7 million of that 40 in gains, you know. I think the total was like maybe 15 that was in Tesla. Too concentrated but that's from memory. Uh but yeah, I mean hey there are winners and losers, right? Like I lost money on I lost money on a firm back in 2021. I think I wrote that down probably a [clears throat] million and a half. >> Yeah, just in one. >> How do you feel looking back than losing a million and a half on that? >> I've That's not the only place I've lost a million dollars because I've lost a million dollars in even just other business ideas or opportunities or like, oh, you know, I'm going to go learn how to be a pilot. That probably cost a million dollars, right? Uh so I I don't really look at the number anymore. I look at it more as uh I it was a really expensive college education, [laughter] you know? So, like, hey, you know, what lessons could I learn from why I didn't sell a firm earlier, right? And how could I not make those stupid mistakes again? How do you say that so casually, though? Like, I [clears throat] could lose a million years. >> Honestly, it's probably the happiest I've ever been right now because I really just don't care about the numbers because I got these beautiful seven children. Uh, you know, I don't have any debt. There's no worry about anything. It's like I don't have margin debt or home debt or whatever. And and I realized I'm in a really fortunate place because, you know, there's YouTube income, there's other revenue, you know, I I run House Hack, now we call it Reinvest. So, for me, I'm like, I just want to build and I don't really have this stress or fear of a downside. Back then, I did, you know, I had $8 million in margin debt. I had 20 properties with mortgages on them, right? So, it's weird, but like I'm way less stressed today than I was then. Didn't you used to make fun of Dave Ramsey, though, for the debt aspect? And now you're like billionaire or broke like confidently. Like >> that is still true. [laughter] I still believe in the billionaire or broke thesis. So I still have that as [clears throat] an ambition. Like I still want to do that and I think I can with you know the real estate company with with house hack reinvest. But yeah it's uh maybe like a what do you call it like a mayulpa when you're like damn the guy I always used to make fun of Dave Ramsey. kind of like, huh, maybe he kind of had a point, you know, like respect. I would >> so you feel so you feel better >> paying off all the debt. >> Great. Do you recommend the average person pay off their debt? >> Uh, it depends because the tough thing is, you know, you want to be able to build wealth. And I personally think one of the best ways to build wealth is real estate, which is really annoying for people to hear right now because rates are so high. It's like, oh my god, nobody's building wealth with 6% interest rates. That's fair. That'll change over time. we're not going to be at 6% interest rates forever. You know, I think the biggest risk now that people have is there's so much of a desire to take out margin debt for betting markets or Robin Hood or whatever. And I think that's where people are going to get destroyed. And I do think that debt, you know, there's the AI side of debt. We could talk about that later. But I think a lot of people are drowning in debt right now. I think a lot of people have uh a lot of credit card debt, multiple credit card debts, student loans. I mean, uh, you know, in some areas on the margin, you're seeing car delinquency skyrocket, credit card delinquency skyrocket, a lot of lower income, and it's really hard, but it goes to show that that debt is is something that does kill you and kind of prevents you from building a net worth. >> So, what's causing the stock market rally? >> Okay, so once we had the ceasefire, what was really interesting was during the Iran war, geopolitics are almost always a buy the dip, by the way. Um, and it's always painful to say because everybody say sees every war as like this is going to be the recession. This is it. The nukes are going, which it is possible that Iran is secretly building a nuclear weapon in Pickax Mountain, but really >> 1%. >> I would give it about an 8% chance that they one day just like in one in like 12 realities, they just wake up one morning and go, "Subes, we got a nuke." [laughter] And it's like, "Open up the strain. Otherwise, we're throw we're lobbing it. We're just gonna lob it. Go ahead, shoot it out of the sky." Guess what's going to happen? A lot of people gonna die. All that radioactive material is just going to go blow over Europe. >> Yeah. One of 12 realities. >> You give that an 8% chance. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's the equivalent of, by the way, someone at a crafts table basically rolling like a 10, which can happen multiple times in a row. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, I mean, look into Pax Mountain is what I would tell your viewer because it's it's the one that we didn't strike when we did Operation Midnight Hammer with the B2 bombers, and it's the one that we have not struck during this last operation. Why? Meanwhile, they're still building it. It's weird. It's too deep. I think it's way too deep. Like, they built it probably twice as deep as the last ones, and our bombs can't reach it. >> And you think America knows about this? >> Oh, yeah. I think they know that's also where the highlyenriched uranium went because we saw in satellite imagery trucks. It's not a lot, but the 460 kg of highlyenly enriched uranium that Iran has. We saw trucks back up to the various different facilities that were enriching. And you know, if you read between the lines, they moved it and they probably moved it to their deepest facilities. >> How do you know about this? >> It's everywhere. You can [clears throat] Google. Yeah. I mean, you have to kind of look for it because it's not the sexiest like front page news. So, what I do is, this sounds really weird, but I still read the newspaper, like the physical newspaper, and it's usually on like B7, [laughter] you know, in the back of the newspaper, and it's like pickaxe mountain exposed, and it'll be in the New York Times. >> You know, it's interesting. Tim Dylan had a whole rant about this, and he just said it's not good news. Ju just details like this. It's just it doesn't make for good news. They want the clickbaity headlines of this and this, but >> Oh, like P. Yeah, of course. Oh, of course. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that's the struggle especially now with like I mean it's one of the reasons I turn my phone on like grayscale is I I can't go on X without getting distracted by like oh damn look at that police shootout. You know it's like dude I can't work anymore with what I see on X or I open up Instagram and it's boobs or I open up you know Tik Tok and it's aviation or worse it's female fighter pilots flying. >> You know it's based on your viewing preferences right cuz I [laughter] >> cuz I definitely don't get boobs. I get reef aquariums and Rolex watches on my Wow. [laughter] Just bodybuilders, man. Just abs. [laughter] >> So, getting back to the rally here, is it justified and what's causing it? >> Yeah, partially. So, during the geopolitical crisis, you had uh valuations tank uh especially at companies like Nvidia and AMD. So, I like to uh look at companies on what I call a forward growth growth basis. So without getting too granular, basically what's its valuation? How much money is it earning? And then I divide that by its future growth rate. How much do we actually think they're going to grow earnings by? I think that's really important because you're going to see companies where you'll have like a palunteer. People are like, "Oh, that's a 100 forward PE ratio. That's too high." Okay, but they're growing earnings at 40% a year. So you're trading for like two and a half peg or whatever. And for software companies, that's usually actually totally fair. uh AMD and Nvidia which are even better than software companies. They just design chips. They don't make the chips, they just design them. Their margins are through the roof. Nvidia claims AMD and margins. But anyway, uh so we had a thesis that hardware would boom because earning season was coming up and the valuations were low and there's no sign AI is rolling over yet. One day Michael Bur will be right. You know, we all know these depreciation schedules are crazy or the circular investments like you saw the Cerebrus IPO like >> basically quick example somebody's trying to reinvent the mousetrap, make a different server chip. They go IPO, but the only way they could IPO is if they show US revenues. So, how do they show US revenues? They call up one of their big investors who happens to be the president of the board at OpenAI. So, OpenAI gives them a $20 billion contract. Oh, yeah. We'll use your chips. And now that guy probably is the one who set it up. Now, they can IPO the company. Company goes and IPOs. That guy gets rich. He got probably essentially set up the deal, right? This is the oversimplifying the circular flow. That's like a 30inut video on its own, right? Oversimplifying. >> But the point of it is >> there's no sign that that's stopping yet. So low valuations combined with a lot of people sold a lot of stock during the Iran crisis. I mean Ross Gerber came on and I love Ross, but when he's like, "Oh yeah, Kevin, we're telling everybody raise cash right now." I'm like, "Dude, if if everybody's raising cash right now, everybody's just going to plow into the market when it's green again." And so that's why we've seen this crazy rocket up. So, it sounds like you have to be a contrarian investor to a certain degree, which makes me think too if everyone is saying sell. The market's overvalued to see some of the highest PE ratios in history. Schwab said the stock market is expensive by every single metric possible. And if everyone is shouting we're overvalued, it makes me think the contrarian of that is buy more. Yeah, I I ironically I agree with you. I I I actually think this I call it this is going to be the most frustrating rally ever where people will look at 2026 and be like, "How did this turn into another 2021 where the gap between the bears and the bulls went astronomical and some people just lost everything because they were bearish on it and other people just made mega fortunes because nobody saw this company." So, how should this apply then to the average person? Because you have a lot of people out there that are saying that oh you should just buy like mutual funds very safe investments T bills you know like a standard diverse portfolio and then you have other people like Chris Camilillo that say hey you should allocate a sizable chunk a meaningful amount towards risk capital maybe like some IPOing companies some smaller cap companies higher risk companies what do you think the average person should be doing let's just say you take like the majority of people they're earning between let's say like 40k and 200k as a family I know that's a huge spread But like how should they approach today's market? Here is an absolute fact. If you're not creating content for your business, you're leaving a bunch of money on the table. But creating good content is expensive, timeconuming, and honestly just like really hard to do. This is exactly why we partnered with OpusClip. 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Thanks again to OpusClip for sponsoring this episode. And now, let's get back to the podcast. The majority of people, they're earning between, let's say, like 40k and 200k as a family. I know that's a huge spread, >> but like how should they approach today's market? If you're in that range, that 200 or 40 to 200, probably the best investment you could really make is trying to figure out how can you and your spouse increase your own income. There are people that I know that went from being a nurse and with overtime they're making $120,000 a year to saying, you know what, I'm going to go back to night school and I'm going to study to be an anesthesiologist. two, three years later, they do have to take on some debt, but two or three years later, they're like an anesthesiologist nurse instead of a normal nurse. And now all of a sudden, they're making $400,000 a year. They're an independent contractor instead of a W2 person. Now they get write offs. They could write off all their side expenses. They could write off, you know, whatever, their education, you name it. And so, what's fascinating to me is there's so many opportunities to to grow your skill set and make more money that that's where I would focus first for most people. Then I would focus on owning my own home and then I would focus on uh yeah adding some risk assets in the diversified portfolio I think gets really interesting when you're retired, you know, when you're on the other side of the hump. >> Okay, that's so interesting you say that because what I've done is I have like maybe 10% of my portfolio in spy. Everything else, virtually everything else is like QQQ. >> I see. or VUG, which is just like large cap. It's like one top 100 stocks. A lot of people tell me that that's like ultra risky. But then you also have this other side of social media that are saying there was this chart that I saw and it was if you bought $100,000 worth of TQQQ, how long it would take for you to be a millionaire at a bunch of different years. So like the year 2000 all the way up until the year like 2020. And it was not long every year. Like the maybe the longest was like 10 years but even then like people were the returns of TQQQ are ridiculous. What do you think about also the alternative side of like having ultra risky ETFs like triple leveraged QQQ which is like >> Jack has a problem with hindsight bias. >> Well he likes to say oh if I bought Nvidia pretty well I'm just saying my QQQ portfolio has done pretty well just as easily 20% cash position. I mean, in fairness, uh, over the last 26 years, we've really had a technological boom, right? I mean, look at where we were with technology 20 years ago. Uh, I think Counterstrike came out like 24 years ago. That was like these were like your first video games, right? Uh, and and we were running on, you know, 8 megabit internet. [laughter] If you were had a T1 connection, you were lucky. And you move from DSL to cable. Uh, that was lucky, too. Uh but anyway, so yeah, I mean there is some hindsight bias there, but I actually think the spy and the cues that you said, great. I wouldn't touch triple leverage because I think as soon as we get our credit event, which will happen one day, some black swan, whether it's private credit or all this crazy offbalance sheet financing that's happening with like Meta and the big, you know, the Blue Owls and the mega caps to finance their data centers, all that crap's going to implode one day. It's all going to zero one day. They're going to overbuild and it's all going to crash. And when that happens, TQQ is really going to suck. In fact, it'll probably go to zero, which you can't come back from zero. That's actually why the SEC just banned 5x leverage. >> Oh my gosh, they had 5x. Why did I NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS? >> SO, they weren't available yet. So, they banned it before they became available because it was getting so ridiculous. And if you look at just either the tariff shock or this Iran shock, you would be at zero. 5x would already be at zero. They would have all already collapsed. So the SEC, you know, did a good thing there. They stopped that cuz they would have already been at zero. >> 3x leveraged the next recession because we are so like we've never been through a real recession. Well, I don't even know that during COVID we had triple leveraged ETFs. We should look into that. But uh let's say we did absent COVID because it was such a short recession. Absent COVID, we didn't have triple leveraged ETFs in the great financial crisis. Back then, they would have all gone to zero. >> So, you would always argue, hey, don't touch the triple leverage ETFs, but you do think QQQ is fine. >> Totally. Oh, I think QQQ is great. Love it. If you're going to buy it longterm, get QQQM is a little trick. So, slightly different, but their fees are like I want to say half or you look into the fees. The reason is they advertise QQQ. So everybody who comes in from the advertising funnel buys QQQ because that's where they spread the name. >> Everybody who knows like the financial adviserss that they're trying to, you know, also have use their product, they have QQQ M for them and lower fee. >> I have no idea. So what do you think is the biggest risk to the economy right now that no one's talking about? >> It's that credit. Credit credit. That's it. >> So explain this like I'm five because Jack is five. >> Yes. [laughter] >> Basically >> explain it like to Jack. a lot of uh debt that uh so so people owing other people money and we don't know if those people are going to be around in the next 5 or 10 years whether those are data centers uh people who are building out you know H100 Nvidia facilities or data centers uh or they are construction companies that are building these and rapidly expanding their debt so they can hire people to build out whether they're, you know, generator selling companies, you know, whether it's, I mean, not Generrack, but there are plenty of other even private companies that are trying to build out data centers and everybody's trying to expand quickly. So, people are taking on debt to facilitate data center uh construction somewhere that's all going to go to crap one day when that cycle turns. >> So, how are you so sure of that? >> I'm not. That's the toughest part is I don't know where the credit cycle will be. I think it'll be in data centers, but it could be in somewhere else. So somewhere >> so what you're assuming probably will happen because these we don't just we will always need data centers but there will be a few winners a lot of losers and these losers are going to be caught up in the credit cycle. Well it's typically what happens when you have an industrial boom is we overbuild. So there were like a quick comparison if you go back to like the.com bubble. We always think of like the consumer.com bubble like pets.com or whatever. But before that you had the infrastructure buildout boom. Uh dark fiber basically you know let's light fiber everywhere we can. I think there was a company called worldcom and cross country. I don't know whatever. massive debt expenditures driven by spending from the big mega cap incumbents of the day, which is exactly what's happening today. Except just for scope comparison, back then the total like the highest annual capex spend was $82 billion from all of the mega cap incumbents back then. Today, Nvidia almost makes $80 billion in a quarter. In about a 100 days, Nvidia makes about $80 billion. uh the top five data center uh plays so like Google, Meta, Oracle, Microsoft and Amazon are projected to spend over a trillion dollars in capex next year which is uh more than 10 times what we saw in the docom bubble and I think a lot of that is financed by debt. There's a reason why companies who are doing great. You know, Google's great. There's a reason why though, Google and Meta have stopped doing stock buybacks. If you go look at their earnings, they're like, "Oh, last year you guys were buying back all your stock." They do that cuz they issue a lot of stock comp. And the people who work there [clears throat] are like, "Well, I want to buy a house or a boat. I'm going to sell some stock." So, the company buys back the stock so it doesn't impact the stock price and the CEOs get yelled at or fired because the stock goes down. So, they buy back stock. They've stopped doing that cuz they're out of money, [laughter] which is crazy. If you look at Microsoft's balance sheet, it's like, what did you guys do with all your money? It's all gone. It's crazy. The balance sheets have gone from amazing to bad. Uh, and Meta is now hiding debt from their balance sheet. They're literally able to structure somehow legally $27 billion lease commitments that don't show up on their balance sheets. That was a Blue Owl deal that they just did last year. >> Doesn't show up on their balance sheet. So, a new investor who goes in says, "Oh, you know, I'm going to be a diligent investor. I'm going to look at the balance sheet. $27 billion wouldn't even show up. So, you wouldn't even know, which is scary. So, I don't know where it all comes out. I don't know when it's all going to collapse, but it's it's going to be an overbuild. It's all going to collapse. It's going to be ugly. And a lot of people are going to get really hurt and leverage ETFs are going to go to zero. I was reading though that a lot of those aren't really going to impact the broader market. That if you're in the S&P 500, you're going to have very little to worry about outside of a few deals that seem to be isolated. That's the hope. Uh the the biggest thing that concerns me about the economy outside of credit is the labor market. Labor market drives every drives everything. There's a reason why retail sales are still booming right now, which is crazy that they are, but they just keep beating estimates. Even with oil prices, what 50? Well, actually, we're almost double the oil prices per barrel that we had in January, which is also crazy. But despite that, people are still spending more than economists have been expecting. And that's even excluding oil and gas >> all driven by the top 1%. >> Predominantly. >> Yeah. Okay. >> 80% of that spending is like the 1% because the stock market is so high >> and it's an annoyance to go and fill up your gas tank and pay $7, but you don't care. This is true. There is a massive massive wealth effect. People are feeling rich because the stock market is at all-time highs. And so that'll actually bring me to my point and you're right. Yeah. the top, you know, 1% has a big spending. Top 10% has a big spending. Top half spends almost all of it, right? The bottom half doesn't matter so much for spending, which is sad. But the point is that's what drives the economy. The consumer is still 72% of the economy. You know, that'll start flipping because of AI. But what's really interesting is when people lose their jobs, then they stop spending. And so that's what makes me the most scared is that once we see that slowdown, we don't know when it's going to be, but once we get that construction build out slow, all these great jobs reports we're getting, they're not going to have that support anymore from construction or uh from, you know, software developers getting hired. Ironically, even in the age of AI, we're seeing more software developers get hired now. And here's my prediction. The stock market's going to keep going higher and higher and higher and higher, and people are going to keep saying, "It's a bubble. It's a bubble. It's a bubble." And then there's going to be a point where they're going to say, "I was wrong. It's not a bubble." And they're going to buy >> and that's when you sell. >> And it's [laughter] that's the moment you got to click sell. Is when all the doubters say, "I can't keep doing this any longer. I'm back in." >> But they'll never do that. >> Michael Bur will I just don't think that that's >> I think there will get there will get to a point where the majority of people out there who've been sitting on cash say, "Fuck, I've lost so much in opportunity cost. I've been wrong. I'm gonna buy it. >> So, what do you think then for the average person? Because this is one of Graham's favorite things. Yes. Is having what we call dry powder. >> So, having a good amount of cash like your you said your portfolio is what 15% cash. 20% >> 20% cash. >> It's not cash. It's treasuries. >> Yeah. >> Cash. So, he has 20% cash. Treasuries. >> A stabilized asset. >> Cash equivalents. >> Cash [laughter] equivalent. There you go. >> Do you think that this is a reasonable approach for most people? like what percentage cash or dry powder treasuries cash equivalents should they have set on the side to purchase in in the case something happens like there we have another like geopolitical >> crash I think that's great I I actually I'm a big fan I I you know I I think a lot of people could benefit from that because what it means is first of all if you have cash on the sidelines you probably don't have a lot of margin it depends on what kind of structuring or deals you're getting but margin rates for most people are very high right now. And so you have if you have cash on the side, there's a good chance you're not borrowing against your stock, in which case you don't have pressure to sell. And if the market goes down, the market goes down. It doesn't matter. You have that opportunity to buy. And psychologically, when people are buying when the market's going down, it kills that feeling of fear of, oh crap, it's going down. I'm losing all this money. You're buying. If you're buying, you're psychologically seeing it as an opportunity, which is great because you're increasing your ownership. Like I always see it as ownership with um any stock. If you like a if you have a favorite company or you want Nvidia, the stock price is at 150 during the geopolitical crisis. Great. I was able to buy more ownership of that company at a lower price. It's great. DCA in. >> So then how is your net worth divided up? What does your portfolio look like in the middle of 2026? >> Well, uh there's a good amount of treasuries, cash equivalents. Love that. Really big fan of that right now. >> What percentage cash equivalent? A lot of my net worth is in house hack in reinvest and I don't really know what the daily value of that is because it's a private company. There's a one value based on what we recently raised at then there's a value based on what we're about to raise at probably in like September. Uh you know and then there are also stock options. So there that's a big skew. But let me put it in comparison to history. In comparison to history, I've got probably four times as much cash than I've ever had before now. And I feel great about it. No debt, too, which feels great. So, I think that's probably the easiest comparison. >> There was a viral clip from our podcast that occurred recently of Kevin Oolir saying, "You're not truly wealthy until you have $5 million of cash liquid available to you at any given moment." What do you think about that? >> Yeah, I think that's great because you now you're sitting around with true like just FU money basically. It doesn't really matter if you, you know, oh, the car needs a $10,000 repair or the house needs a new roof or whatever. If you've got five in cash sitting around, those are all just rounding errors, right? That's a wonderful place to live in, but that's not for everybody, right? Kevin Olirri's compare, you know, talking about the top 1% or maybe even a fraction within the top 1%. So, it's not relatable. And so, he honestly I I haven't seen the clip, but he's probably gets a lot of flack for that. But that's kind of what keeps Kevin Olirri really relevant because he says these things that people go crazy over he's really good at clips. I think that's why like Fox loves having him on the clip man. >> A lot of people actually agreed with him. Like if you went into the responses a lot of like wealthy people are like I actually 100% agree with this which I was blown away by. I thought he was going to get a lot of hate for saying >> I honestly thought he was going to get hate too but I also agreed with him. [laughter] So that's interesting. So, it's funny you're talking about treasuries here because I just saw for the first time since 2007, US treasuries are selling at 5%. And Jack says, "Is this a good investment?" >> No, [laughter] I have to say to me it seems kind of appealing to be able to lock in 30 years at a 5% return guaranteed risk rate. I mean, obviously there's some interest rate risk in between there, but I think locked in 5%. And we're talking right now about the riskreward of the S&P 500. And people basically say that the risk premium that you pay for the S&P 500 is now >> negative. Yes. When you account for what you could get guaranteed in a treasury, >> it's true. Uh so I mean, let's break it down. The reason people say that is the S&P 500 trades for like 21 times forward earnings. So if you just divide that into 100, you get like 4.8% a year. That's what you're expecting. You're expecting 4.8% per year from the S&P 500. Yes. Okay. This is always what people end up doing. And then the S&P 500s, you know, ends up doing 13% years, you know, or dividends reinvested even more. I think historically it's like over 9%, but lately it's been more. Uh the problem with the Treasury play, and that's why I was so quick to say no, is I understand the appeal of locking in that 5%, but the problem is duration. So if for whatever reason interest rates go up a percent, you know, because inflation lasts even longer, that 1% is going to kill like 22% of your portfolio instantly. That's what you'll see. Now, if you want to hold those bonds for 30 years, you'll get a 100% back. But in the meantime, one year later, interest rates are 1% higher, you're going to be 20% lower. You put a million bucks in, you're going to be looking going, "Huh, I only have $800,000 left." Now, you're still getting a 5% yield on a million, right? You're still getting that [clears throat] $50,000, >> but usually that then shakes people out and people like, "I'll just tax loss harvest over here." So, people just don't hold them till the end. If you really truly hold it to the end, fine. It's great for retired people. >> For you, at what price would you invest in a 30-year Treasury? >> I don't think I ever would. I really like the Warren Buffett mentality of 6 to 12 month treasuries. And the reason for that is if there's some kind of crazy weird shock, uh whether we have stagflation or rates go to zero, I I want >> But there's got to be an interest rate where you say, "Hey, you know what? It's I'm going to go 50% in this." Cuz I got to say, if right now I had the option to lock in a 12% return, >> yeah, >> I would probably just lock in a 12% return. If I if I knew guaranteed for 30 years, I just average that, I would probably do it. >> It all depends on what inflation is too, right? Cuz if inflation were 13%, you'd be like, "Ah, hell no." [laughter] Right? I'm not going to do that. >> It's given right now. Given >> what we know right now at price. >> So I think that all comes down to people's individual opportunities, too. Like if you know you're running a if you're a real estate agent and you're making $100,000 a year, I'm thinking to myself, all right, what can we do to get your business to $300,000 a year, that boost of income is going to be so much larger on a percentage basis than worrying about that treasury bill, right? Like what can we invest in? Let's get you some better open house signs or a nicer suit or whatever. It's not that expensive of a business to run. Uh so it depends on everyone individually. Me personally with like what we're doing with house hack reinvest I wouldn't want to lock in 12% because I think we will make more than that on an annual basis but that comes down to everyone that's also going to take a lot of work. So you know if I think we can make 25% compounded per year I have to work my ass off to earn that right and if I'm retired or I'm not running a startup yeah dude 12% might look pretty appealing so I don't blame you. Are you worried about the hentai virus? >> It's funny you asked me that because I I I joke that it's the >> I always call it the hentai virus. I love it. >> Yeah. I joke that it's the the virus that's the final boss of house hack because it's spread by rats and dude we buy a lot of properties that are like infested with like hoarders and rats and cat urine and people are getting sick from this just by like sweeping garages and like aerosolizing or whatever it's called whatever uh the the urine and the feces or whatever and that's how they're getting sick and people are dying from it like a lot like 300 people are dying I think It's like a 38% death rate. It's bad >> on your property. >> No, not nobody died on my properties. [laughter] Death rate. People are dying from it. >> Uh, no. It's It's so weird because it's like it's it's literally I'm reading about this virus and I'm studying it. I'm like, cat urine, rat urine doesn't spread human to human. So, it's like you have a really low population risk, but then if you get it, it's like bad. You have like a one in three chance of dying. >> But I'm like, man, this is like a hoarder's virus. If you're a hoarder, you probably have rats in your house. you probably have hentus in your house. So now I have to underwrite my deals a little more sharply, but I'm not really broadly worried about it. >> Why aren't you worried about why are some people saying that this is like the hidden catalyst for a recession in the economy that we're no one's paying a lot of attention to it? Now, I did look back at a tweet from the World Health Organization in January of 2020 that said the same thing about CO that the transmission rates are really low. It's nothing to worry about. And a month later, we're like, "Oh, well, we were wrong." And >> yeah, it's really interesting. You I mean co was crazy because you just wonder like what money interests were at play especially with like Wuhan and the development of like oh yeah let's direct evolution between these monkeys. It it's crazy that virus should have never existed. But that co spread person to person through us just sitting here you know breathing and talking. I can't spread henta virus to you. If I have it right now maybe I do. You know, I have to like urinate. You have to go touch it, you know, [laughter] or like we have to we have to hug. Uh oh. So, so fortunately I I think just because of and I'm not a doctor, but because of the mechanisms of it for as a stock analyst guy and a real estate guy, I'm not worried about it for the market, I probably am not going to be sweeping any rodent homes anytime soon. So, do you think then given all of this, there's nothing to worry about so far with that and our economy that is it easier to build wealth right now for the average person in 2026? This episode is in partnership with Airbnb. Graham and I are always traveling for the podcast. We were just in Nashville filming a few episodes there and let me tell you, the food was incredible. I had the absolute best appetizers I've ever had. There was this dough ball and these steak potatoes. It was incredible. But let me ask you this. Do you ever think about your place back home when you travel? When you're gone for days or even weeks at a time, you can list your space on Airbnb so it works for you instead of just sitting empty. And if you've ever considered listing your space, but you weren't sure how you'd manage everything while you're away. Well, that's exactly where Airbnb's co-host network comes in. 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That's zaper.com/ic. Is it easier to build wealth right now for the average person in 2026? >> Uh, I I actually think it's going to and it's going to continue to get harder to build wealth. Uh, I think unfortunately AI doesn't make people wealthy unless they're like at the top tier of being able to use AI. I don't think most people use AI to the best of their abilities. A lot of people still doubt AI. I think only 18% of companies according to Goldman Sachs right now are actually implementing AI inside their companies, which is insane. That's such a low level. But what'll longer term happen, I believe, is corporations will take almost all of the profit from AI. Corporations, whether it's logistics, shipping packages, customer service, you know, your T-Mobile, your grocery store, whatever, stocking, inventory, making products, uh, everything can almost all be automated with software over time and artificial intelligence. And guess who cuts out? Gets cut out people. A lot. And I'm not saying there won't be other jobs or other opportunities, but the people who will make most of the profits will be the shareholders because you're going to see companies like even Cisco where I mean they just reported banger earnings. Their stock has gone like straight vertical and they're literally reporting what I expect is going to continue happening. Wow, we're beating earnings and we're firing more people. And it's a terrible transition because to me it says it's harder for people to build wealth. It's kind of hard to build wealth if you can't qualify for a loan or you got fired and now you got to get take a different job and you got to go back to school or or you know go learn a new skill. That's hard. That takes years. So I think there's like there's unfortunately this sort of like a lull that we're in right now where people are kind of screwed and it's the corporations that are that are winning and that's going to lead to a rise of more AOC's and more mandomies in New York. So if you were to give advice then for the average person out there, not what you would do but you think would be the most productive at scale for someone to implement in their life to become wealthy in in today's environment. What would it be? And then also what would you specifically do? Because I'm sure what you would do would be different than the wide appeal advice that you would give. Let's say I was starting over or somebody else is listening is like how can I make a lot of money right now? I actually think the people who are going to make the most money are the people who are the best at implementing AI and things that are traditionally kind of boring. Insurance, bookkeeping, accounting. These are places that AI is going to dominate. And I'll tell you, I'll get on the phone with insurance brokers and I immediately know the people who are actually productively using AI because these people get emails out fast, they get quotes out fast, they get policies out fast, and they know where the holes are because they're using AI and I can tell they're using AI, but they're not using it in a way where they're copy and pasting everything. They're still using their brain and they're like, "Okay, yeah, yeah, this is what this person needs. All right, let's play fit this puzzle." That's where all the money's going to be. Eight out of 10 people I would argue are the opposite and they're like oh no man no man a AI you know this one time it it hallucinated and it told me this AI is stupid those are the people are going to go bankrupt because AI is now you know chat bots basically are like three and a half years old already you know the chat moment was about a little over three years ago came out in November of 22 three and a half years ago >> it's gotten a lot better now I don't think it's going to exponentially keep going we're not going to get artificial general intelligence this is still token in like next letter prediction stuff, but um basic stuff, a real estate agent, a lender, getting your loan license for when rates come down in the future, because they will come down again in the future, bookkeeping, whatever. Power that with AI, even an attorney, honestly, an attorney with AI, probably the most dangerous thing that could exist right now. >> It's so funny you say that because right before this podcast, we were talking about Grant Cardone. We asked him the same question. He said the exact same thing. >> Shut up. >> Yeah. He said he did. >> He said the exact same thing. It's AI implement. Yeah. >> Yes. And he >> AI implementation. He said you go to businesses that don't have 24/7 sales centers and a lot of people will call after hours but they can't get a hold of anyone. So what do they do? They call another business. If they want a solution, they want it right now. They want their AC fixed. >> You don't answer. They call someone else. >> Exactly. So if you can get an AI call center that I mean realistically if I call and it's an AI call center, as long as it's good, I don't care if I get my Exactly. I don't even know if it's an AI problem solve. He said you go to 10 businesses, completely revolutionize their business, take $8,000 from each business, you're making a million dollar a year, first year doing I actually I mean those numbers are very ambitious. But I think that this is like the lowest lift most scalable thing that people could be doing right now to make a ton of money. >> Totally. I I agree. That's scary. >> Got millions of views and people were in the tech world like we're on it. Yeah. >> What did they say? >> They said it was unrealistic. You're never going to get 10 businesses. No one's going to pay $8,000. But like if if you're like an 18-year-old kid who knows nothing about AI, how are you going to like >> Grant Cardone responded and he just said, "Have fun being poor." >> Well, okay. [laughter] That would be his reply. Well, so the thing about Cardone uh is he's not really like somebody who's 18 doesn't have to make a million. They have to have a goal of making a million. Even if they make 200, they're freaking killing it, right? That's the mentality that Cardone is trying to push with his with his 10x, which is good. Like I I that's one thing I won't bag on him for. I'm like, damn, if you try to go 10x, well, even if you 3X, that's better than what you were doing before, right? It's like shoot for the moon and even if yes, you're still around, you know, whatever. We've all heard that crap before. But so he's not wrong with that. Uh but but yeah, I mean how much the more people are reluctant to use AI around you when you hear your parents or doctors or people around you are reluctant to use AI, the more you should be doubling down on it. That's my take because that means there's more money to be made. What sort of investing opinions do you have that you think most people would disagree with? I think this is going to be the best decade ever, 2022 to 2032, to buy real estate. Now, everybody hates that idea. Absolutely. Everybody hates that idea, which is exactly why I think it's the best idea that exists. Mostly because between 2022 and 2032, we're going to likely continue experiencing the highest interest rates that we've seen since like, you know, the 70s, sagflation era, which is crazy, but it's been caused by shock after shock after shock. Whether it's the tariff shock, the Iran shock, COVID, Russia, Ukraine, whatever, these are all inflationary shocks. Okay, great. So we have rates higher for longer. Even though we are getting Kevin Worsh as the new Fed chair, he's not going to be able to dump rates. The best thing that he's going to do is be an anchor to prevent them from going higher. That's it. That's the best you're going to get out of Kevin Wars for a while. Which means real estate will continue to be unpopular unless you have a lot of cash. So we're fortunate that at House Act Reinvest, we don't have any bank debt. So, it's $80 million of real estate, maybe 85 if you include some of our dirt, uh, of paid off real estate. And I see that as not sort of a way of saying, oh, you know, we have all this money or whatever. It's it's a way of saying this is where we're actually putting money. And the reason we like doing it during this decade is because we believe that by 2032 rates will probably be back at zero. We might actually even look like Europe. it becomes socialist and then all of a sudden wages go down for the average person. Productivity goes down and interest rates end up going negative on savings. We'll probably be back to that in the 2030s. And the people who have acquired the most real estate between 2022 and 2032 will have the biggest piggy bank and say, "Oh, I now get to refinance all of this at you thought 2.7% was great. Try 1.7%." Or whatever. So, I think it's interesting that 75% of the US right now in terms of homes that are currently for sale are unaffordable to the typical household. 97% of the US counties are now considered unaffordable by historic standards. Most Americans say now is a bad time to buy. There are 64% more sellers than buyers and negative equity is increasing for buyers who purchased in the last few years across the country. I would argue that real estate is fundamentally too expensive at today's interest rates. The prices have barely budged because there's such a lag effect and I'm taking the opposite approach of you and I'm selling my real estate. In fact, I just listed one of them for sale today hours before this podcast and I can't wait to be done with it. >> I'll buy it with shares of house hack and you'll get a call option on the future real estate software and cash real estate. I want I want cash right now to be able to buy these installment 5% treasuries. >> We'll installment sale you so you don't have to pay taxes or 1031. >> I want I want 5% treasuries. If you could just give me a 5% treasury. Our last round was a 5% round. I don't want house hack equity. I want I want to be able to I want the cash. I want cash to be able to buy triple leverage >> triple [laughter] leveraged QQQ. >> I just I just think your thesis counts a whole bunch of whatifs. Now, I do think real estate is stable, >> but I look at the yield that you get on real estate. And when I say you, I don't mean you specific. I just mean in general, I see the yield on real estate and what you're getting and I think there's no way that's worth it at today's levels. >> And I and I see in a lot of properties, I say, "Okay, if I get this at a 30 to sometimes 40% discount, I could make that work." >> Yeah. >> And that and that makes sense to purchase. But unless they're willing to come down to a certain level where I feel that compensates for the higher interest rate environment that we're in, it doesn't make sense. And then if you buy it today, what I believe to be a premium, >> you're basically banking on all these things happening in the future to bail you out, so to speak. >> I totally understand where you're coming from. I and I agree with you with all your statistics. I think you're 100% right. I think there are a lot of portions of the country that have been overbuilt and uh those are areas that are seeing a lot of negative equity. Uh Austin, Texas was a great example of that. Uh parts of Florida were an example of that. Uh I also agree with you that if you're going in financing a property, it's very challenging to make it make sense right now. You'd probably have to put 35% down. And a lot of people don't have that cash. You know, 35% down. we're we're filming this is, you know, $350,000 just to buy a home out here, which is crazy. So, uh, for most people, it doesn't make sense. And you're right. Uh, it doesn't make sense to finance. There's certain areas of the country that valuations have gone down. On top of that, uh, your returns right now are probably in line with kind of like a commodity. It's almost like gold. I mean, gold has done really well over the last year, but traditionally longer run average, it's sort of like you're trying to protect yourself from inflation. >> So, you're really not getting anywhere, which is exactly why I want to be shopping because nobody else is wanting to buy really real estate right now. >> So, here's what I'm saying. You say cash, I would be the equivalent of a cash buyer. >> And what I see even if I were to buy a property is I look at the opportunity cost of something like a treasury. And so even though I'm not paying the 6% mortgage rate, >> I am paying a 3 and a half to 5% tax-free yield on a MUN bond. And that's how I >> and that's how I view it because right now I could get risk-free 3.6% in one of the Schwab tax-free mun bond funds. And it'll deviate plus or minus like 5% in perpetuity basically. >> Yeah. Until the cities go bankrupt. [laughter] >> They enter the financial crisis. If the United States goes bankrupts >> that's different. >> Yeah. But not when but not not when they're buying a basket of funds spread across hundreds of funds. If the United States goes bankrupt then I am screwed. But I think we all are at that point. >> Yes. Correct. No, I agree with you. I think treasuries are great. >> But but here but but here's my point is that I look at that and then I say, well, I I could rent basically the same house for 30 to 40% less than it would cost to own. Right. And I look at that delta, that premium that I pic what else could I do with that? I could invest. I could burn the money. >> You could throw Grant Cardone. You could join him. He burns the money. You know, you guys can you have a little money burning party. You [laughter] know >> that you guys have the rich person laugh now. >> That's crazy. You guys both have it. Always I have always wanted that laugh. [laughter] >> We just need to go laugh now. >> All right. At what net worth does the rich person laugh start? I I'm really curious. >> Oh, man. I I don't know, man. >> Is it five million? 10 million. It's just a rich person. I mean, you could never back. Oh, well, you should have listened to yourself [laughter] three cackling 10 seconds ago. Graham, you have the rich person laugh. >> Did I not have that before? >> I don't think so. I think it's I think it's developed. I'm not even kidding. I think it's >> We I crossed a milestone recently and I and I told Jack and a few people I crossed this milestone and and then he says, "I have this laugh." >> It could be that. >> Yeah, it could be. >> It could be that. That's incredible. I mean, you you guys have Grant did not like laugh [laughter] like that back in the day. >> Well, congratulations. >> Congratulations. >> Yeah. So, something to consider the way we look at it, uh, which is it's just how we run our business is we look at buying our properties for 20% less than what they're worth because we buy fixer uppers and that's considering the fixup costs. So, for us, we're getting a discount on the property upfront. Now, of course, you butter that out over years, you know, it yeah, it boosts your rental return, but yeah, you're right. Treasury yields are are attractive, but to us it's already a stabilized asset that we can do a lot with in the long term. Uh primarily refinancing if and when, which I expect will be by 2032, rates come down and let's say by then we've built to make math easy a $100 million portfolio, which we're already at like 85. So we're going to be at 100 million probably by the end of the year. Then we can turn around and leverage that with 30% down. And all of a sudden that becomes uh you know a tool for us to get access to maybe another $200 million. Uh and so now we have a nearly a third of a billion dollar company uh based on assets that we can buy. If I can go buy another $200 million of real estate, especially when rates are low and I get a 20% discount on those, that's another $400 million or sorry $40 million. So for me, I look at owning real estate as a stable inflation hedge. It's very undesirable for people to buy right now and it's a call option on the future, but it can only be in highly desirable markets. So, we buy in high cost of living markets and most people especially hate that idea. [laughter] >> Well, your risk, there are two risks. Uh, one is tenant habitability lawsuits, which in California are a dime a dozen. Your other risk is all these initiatives that are going into effect right now that that want to ban institutional buyers. And I saw the recent Trump proposal and I think it was 250 homes or more. >> And what they're probably going to do is they're going to go back and forth on that. They're going to argue and someone's going to push it up to 500 and it'll only impact a few specific >> places. And I saw even in that fine print because I looked through because I was really curious about this that it doesn't apply to build to rent communities which means that all these companies are now just going to buy a plot of land, build their own rental community with 501 and they're going to be totally fine. But I think it's a it's a it's a risk that if if housing prices remain high, it's politically popular to ban investors from buying houses. >> It is uh so there are two things to answer there. One, it's interesting. The highability issues have been more of a red flag in insurance policies and insurance is hard to get and keeping insurance happy is tough. So we've actually used our software team to make habitability inspection software. So we have to deal with that crap which we could do with the scale we have. How do you do that? Because habitability is legal. It it is but you have to send people as the owner of the property to verify that these properties are habitable. Okay, let's let's explain it for people who aren't aware. A habitability lawsuit is basically all a tenant has to say. >> My unit, I had a leak over there and it's not habitable. Uh the heating isn't working. Uh this window is broken. I got [clears throat] a rodent. I can't live here. Any any reason. They could come up with a myriad of issues that they could make up. There was even a case recently. It was a mansion. And in one of the mansions, I'm talking about like $100,000 a month, they claimed a habitability lawsuit because there was like water damage in one of the bathrooms. >> Oh, yeah. >> For the whole house, of course. >> And then they stop paying rent. Yep. >> And then they get a lawyer who could drag it out for a year. And during that year, you can't sell the property. It's untransferable. You are paying legal fees. And it's basically this legalized extortion where the tenant just says, "You give me this amount of money and it all goes away or you let me live here for a year and it's going to cost you a few hundred,000." And in many cases for the tenant, the legal services are free, paid for by the mansion tax or by these taxes that landlords and real estate investors have to pay. So for tenants, no risk, landlords, all the risk. >> Almost all these settle immediately. >> This is why you're getting out of LA. [laughter] Mansion taxes in LA. Uh, okay. So, okay, let's talk about that bill because it is interesting and a lot of people are going to care about that. So, there's a Senate version and a and a House version. Uh, the Senate version said if you built a rent or you bought a fixer, you were allowed to exceed the limit, but you had to sell the property after 7 years. So, there was now forced liquidation after 7 years. and you would give the tenant a 30-day option to buy the property first, which I'm actually not really opposed to because your costs are going to be a lot lower if your tenant pays a fair market price for it. You know, just saving real estate commissions and whatever else. So, that's fine. Uh the house fought this with like I think it was somewhere around 76 members of the house signed a letter. They're like, "This is a horrible idea. We can't do." And what they struck was specifically the 7-year sale, which is really interesting because it basically means if you built a rent or you [clears throat] buy a fixer upper, you can hold a property forever. So, it basically changes nothing. But a lot of people always say, "Well, Kevin, what does this mean for for reinvest?" Our thesis and what we're doing is we're taking our real estate software profits from our valuation AI and from, you know, the other things that we sell. Uh, and we're in reinvesting them into real estate. So, really simple. How do you grow an AI company like that to like a billion dollars? Um, well, hopefully you sell a lot of AI software. >> So, you're very bullish on home ownership and real estate investing. Graham is very bearish on it. Who then should buy and who should rent? Because you agree that it's cheaper to rent. >> So, like 100%. >> So, what would make it a good decision for someone? >> I'm a contrarian, right? So, I I buy Nvidia when it's in the toilet and it paid me seven figures. I buy Tesla when it's in the toilet, made me seven figures. I like buying when people hate stuff. Like what I like right now, software. Dude, everybody hates software right now. I think is are people going to vibe code away into it QuickBooks? No. Are people going to vibe code away uh body camera AI that you're getting at Axon or, you know, Taser Manufacturing? No. You're not going to vibe code these companies away and they're making massive software revenues. That's where people can make big money in my opinion. Great software companies or even advertising companies. Another great sector. Anyway, you know, I like buying when those things are in the toilet and they're all in the toilet right now. They've all gone to crap. >> But for real estate, then who should buy? And who should >> people with a lot of cash, which is not very relatable, but again, if you could put 35% down or 50% down, great. >> So, most people should probably rent. >> Yeah. And then I am curious because you didn't necessarily answer the question of what your portfolio looks like. You said you have four times more cash now than you have in the past. What about the other portfolio allocation? Like how much of it is in the stock market? You did mention house hack. That's some big ambiguous. No one knows, you know, how much it is or whatever. But let's just say outside of that, >> stocks, real estate, etc. What's it look like? >> Uh, it is, I would say, the vast majority is short-term treasuries, some stock, and the Rust House Aack. So, that's almost like the pie. >> And of the stock, >> a little bit of real estate, personal real estate. >> Of the stock, what does that look like? >> Software. >> Are you really soft? Yeah. Software stocks. Yeah. 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Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. Restrictions apply. Sems at fanduel.com/predict/bonus hyphen offer terms. >> What's the number one holding you have right now? Uh, well, it's kind of a balanced pie. Uh, Circle has done really well. Um, you know, Apploven is another really good one that's that's sort of underrated. Axon and into it are some favorites that I have. >> Index was talking about that. >> Apploving. >> Yeah, there was a huge discussion. Everyone loved talking about it. Yeah. >> Wow. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, so those I mean they're the things nobody wants right now, which is fine with me. There are some software that I don't love. uh like I don't really love Adobe or Service Now like so so you know I'm a little choosy. >> You know what's so funny? Someone on Twitter said that you know Photoshop is screwed because no one says that's Photoshopped anymore. Everyone just says that's AI. >> That's like how Xerox died [laughter] and nobody uses that phrase anymore. That's true. Like I posted a picture of me and a horse and everybody's like that's AI. And the irony was there was not even like a color filter on my photo. There was nothing on my photo at all. No AI. But everybody thinks it's AI. This is like a humble brag. Did you see this photo? >> I did. >> Oh, stop. >> Well, I literally messaged you back. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> I don't know if it was this photo, but one of the other shirtless photos around all shirtless on social >> few ones that I responded to as a story. I never swipe up and like I think I swiped up. I sent like a little >> Yeah, he zoomed in. He like the story. Wow, look at this. >> I think I was one of the people like that's fake. But you're right. I mean like it's it's now you're right. It's not photoshopped. It's that's AI. It's crazy. >> So, you have gotten into incredible shape. And I know we're not like a fitness podcast or anything, but I'm curious. Are you taking retatriide? >> I take nothing. Nothing. So, it's literally whole wheat, nuts, salmon. That's my diet. >> But you run. You run a lot, right? >> Yeah. So, uh this is actually where I give a lot of credit to AI cuz I don't know much about fitness, but I tell it I want Mediterranean diet. I want pure. Uh and like I talk to it about everything. And one of the things that I've been learning is um you got to run with your heart rate low. if you're also lifting weights because if your heart rate's too high, you're burning all your glycogen stores in your muscles or whatever. It's too complicated for me. I just listen to it. And so I've actually been running more slower. I even go on walks with Lauren. So I'll go on like a 5 mile walk with Lauren. I'll go on a five mile run, but it's like a slow run most of the time. Sometimes like 20% of the time I'll run fast and I'll do a four mile. I'm not that fast, but I'll do a four mile in like 31 minutes or whatever, which is an improvement for me. But uh it's it's mostly I never in my life have I done weights and I started doing weights November 30th and it's awesome. I'm a big fan. So I I I I wish I started many many years ago, but I never had the consistency and now I go every day. >> So two questions. Which AI do you use casually? Like if you're just having questions that you want to bounce back and forth because I am constantly using a bunch of different ones, I want to commit to one. >> Graham uses Grock. >> I love Grock. >> His favorite's Grock. I still use chat. >> Interesting. What is like your go-to AI? >> It depends what it is. So, uh, for me, I think the daily driver is probably Gemini. Uh, but I find that if I'm reviewing documents like legal text or I need to write an attorney letterish or whatever, chat is actually really good at letters. Like, I don't copy and paste. I actually tell the things like, you know, I don't want you to rewrite all my stuff. I just want little tips like change this line or this that or whatever, right? But I talk to all of them and I kind of ingest it all into all of them. Then I close all my windows and do new chats with no memory on and I start the conversations over again and I get such good insight from these models because they're not biased to what I've anchored them to before. So that's sort of my little AI usage tip. But uh Dr. Claude, I call it Gemma for Gemini and then chat. And then for the diet, >> yeah, >> I'm curious, have you noticed any other benefits outside of like, you know, having a good physique? I've regularly had sort of this Mediterranean diet, but the one thing that I found is I have been able to cut my coffee back because I'm increasing my carbs more than ever before because I'm tracking all my calories now. And I'm not getting tired like I used to. I used to have six, seven cups of coffee a day. Now, I stop drinking coffee by 12 uh p.m. And I might have usually it's like two or three cups of tea, green tea, which is like barely one cup of coffee, maybe a cup of coffee if I didn't have all my tea. It just depends. But I stopped then and that's it. So, uh for me, the carb intake has been great for boosting my energy. And I was blown away because people are always like, "Oh, when you work out, you need more protein, more protein." But I look and I'm like averaging 200 gram of protein. And all the AI are like, "Kevin, you're actually getting too much protein. your body can't use all this. Get more carbs. And it actually works. I'm sleeping better and more hyped up. So, it's it's pretty cool. >> One thing that sparked some interest online, we had George Camel on the pod. George Camel thinks that we need to make $6,000 per month in order to support a family of four. >> Oh, that's low. So, in 2026, how much does someone need to retire with a family of four? >> 8 to$10 million in assets, whether it's real estate, stocks. I think anything lower than that, if you're, you said 40 years old, you're going to run out. >> And why 8 to 10? Like what's the math? >> If the traditional financial advice is retire with 4 million bucks, what happens when we have a 50% market downturn? So, I'd rather be at 8 [laughter] and then be at the four after the market downturn. >> It is so funny. We had >> I don't disagree. I do not disagree. >> Exact conversation. Exact. I'm just going to say it. Jack said he wouldn't be working or he would work for fun once he has 10 million. >> Okay. >> And I said, "Well, when you're at 10, you're going to want 20 because a 50% market downturn." I'm like, "You're down to 10, so you need a [laughter] buffer. >> You got to have the buffer." I'm like, "It's it's when you really start looking at it like the three because really I see 10 million bucks is $300,000." >> But the reality is that 99% of people don't have that amount of money and they're getting along just fine. Well, a lot of people are getting along just fine with less than that. And so, like, why would I need to have, you know, sterling silver silverware? I don't need it. I don't need to have like all of the nice >> people with 10 million don't have sterling silver silverware. >> Well, at least now they don't. [laughter] >> Inflation. There's the rich laugh. There it is again. There it is. [laughter] >> It depends on your lifestyle, too. You know, some people are happy playing World of Warcraft and Rust all day long and uh they don't need a lot of money. You know, you can play video games, you can, you know, crash uh in in a small apartment and and you just you can survive on way less money. Um you know, my my dad doesn't survive on a lot of money. I mean, he fortunately lives rentree. I bought him a house to live in. Uh, but you know, beyond that, you he budgets to save up and he's happy. Oh, now I'm going to save this month so I can invest in this or buy this or whatever. And and he seems very happy. He's got a dog. He's happy. He's got family nearby, right? He's he he doesn't seem like he needs more. Some people want to retire and they want to travel a bunch. I think what a lot of people underestimate is when they retire, a main source of your sort of busyness goes away and you got to find a way to be entertained. So typically people are like, "Oh yeah, when I retire I'm going to spend less." The reality is you're probably going to spend more. So that's why I would encourage people to try to retire with more money rather than less. >> It's true. If you have more time, you're going to be spending more money. It's like, it's so funny because everyone thinks as you start your own business, you start making a bunch of money, then you're going to be cashing out all the time. But the reality is if you're working 12 hours a day, you're not going to be spending a bunch of money. You have no time. You're so tired by the end of the workday, you're going to go out. Yeah. >> Which is absolutely true. >> Just keep reinvesting into the business. >> Yeah. When you're bored, you tend to spend a lot of money. Like I find that the days where I'm not busy, like nothing planned on the weekend. >> I start scrolling heritage auctions. >> There you go. >> I start seeing what's going on. I throw a few bids just, you know, cuz you never know what might hit. And then I check cars andbids.com >> just in case there's a good deal. And then I check bring a trailer and then I browse eBay. I'm just trying to find like deals. But every now and then I I get a deal. Like the other day, uh, I bought these Nightmare Before Christmas animation cells from the movie, like the originals >> and I was like, "Oh man, I need this." >> Yeah. >> So, I bought them. >> That's awesome. Congratulations. I had Nightmare Before Christmas bobbleheads when I was a kid. So, I think that's really cool. Yeah. Jack, >> what I'm curious about is you said 8 to 10 million. To a lot of people that sounds ridiculous. you would say that that's probably that that final tier that is worth striving to. And then after that, you see a strong diminish of returns in terms of amount of effort that you put into working and then the money that you get back. You'd say that's about where the dollar starts to diminish in terms of value. >> It might even diminish before that. You know, a lot of that 8 to 10 is just hedging for market fluctuations. I'm a big fan of like stay at a margin debt or just debt in general. But again, it comes down to your lifestyle. I mean, I it's when I was flying my own jet around, you know, 8 to 10 goes really fast uh in in expenses. So, uh it depends on your lifestyle and uh I think 8 to 10 is a great target. And the problem is, you know, a few sentences ago you mentioned that a lot of people are doing just fine on way less, but I think 70 to 80% of Americans are paycheck to paycheck. So, I mean, yes, could they be fine? Yeah, we're surviving, but are we thriving? And then the question is where do you want to be? >> Over 50% of the people that went to Coachella did it on credit. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, the buy now pay later stuff honestly probably helped us avoid a recession. Like the amount of spending that was enabled by being >> did it avoid or it just deferred? Probably deferred delayed, right? Yeah. >> That's going to come due at some point. >> 100%. That'll be part of sort of that next, you know, recession. whatever causes it, that'll be part of it. Because I mean, what's crazy to me is there's so much talk about how AI, everybody's spending money on AI. You know, Gemini just 2 days ago had to come out with BNPL, a firm in Clara now available so you can pay your stupid $24 a month or whatever to Gemini. >> But that boosts conversions. I saw like 40% conversions. No. Yeah, it makes sense. But it does make me wonder, is it boosting conversions on that because people wouldn't get it otherwise? And then is that because they don't have the money? So that's the question. >> 5 a month is >> I mean it's like another Netflix it's another Netflix subscription, you know. >> So I mean then you get Disney Plus, you know, it does all add up. YouTube plus. >> So what do you think is the ideal amount of money to have? >> I I'm not a big fan of thinking retirement wise. I like to think, can you get to a lifestyle where your salary covers all of your expenses and your bills? So, let's say you're an entrepreneur and you're able to make $200 or $300,000, but your entire family can live on 10 grand a month. So, that's $120,000. Whatever extra you make, you should immediately pay yourself $120,000 salary to pay your bills, to cover all that net of taxes, and then invest the rest. Just pretend you don't have the other growth. Like, I'll put myself in these shoes. I would uh in and the place that I feel like I'm in is whatever money I make from stocks or investments or house hack or whatever, that's all bonus. Any living expenses that we have for school, insurance, kids, seven children, cars, car insurance, whatever should be covered by my salary for running reinvest. And it is. So for me, I'm very happy because I look at it as, okay, I don't need a single dollar more than that. And that's why I started early in the podcast by saying it's it's it's hard not to be happy right now because all bills are covered. There's nothing to worry about. How how much do you spend a year as a family of nine? It's hard to say because the numbers fluctuate a lot because all of the children just started going to school in February. So, our expenses on home care has plummeted. We had night care specialists for like summer who almost died and we had, you know, help 247 for the first year of their lives. Those expenses were absorb in insane because we're not just paying for help. We're paying for specialized help. >> How much How much was that? probably north of 800 grand just for a year, you know, in in payroll expenses or contractor expenses, right? So, it's that's a lot. Now, that said, it's come down massively. Uh, and so I honestly think if we spend, you know, just for um, you know, travel or giggles or whatever the family might spend, I don't know, eight on average a month, maybe with food it probably comes to 101 120. Uh, and then add to that just other living expenses. would probably live on a $250,000 salary >> without a mortgage. >> Correct. No mortgage. >> So, we watched a really interesting video. We drove from Vegas to the city you live in, Ventura, Southern California, beautiful city. And on this 5-hour drive, the one video that stuck out to me was this video, Ben Felix, and it's the best way to spend money. And I'm curious, what is the best way to spend money? I would say my favorite and I've spent money in crazy ways whether it's in Vegas on you know parties uh or again flying my own plane around learning how to become a pilot all the licensing or whatever business ideas by far of all the money I spent my absolute favorite money to spend family vacations that's it Disneyland Disney World going to Hawaii going to Europe that time you spend with family I think is everything. I still I I always on my phone or my iPad have a little memory screen on the top and I always get those feeder scrolls of like, "Oh, remember that time you were in Rome or remember that time you were in Japan or what?" Those are priceless. So big fan of spend money on experiences. Yeah, you could cut on, you know, the size of your home or the size of your car or all that crap, but experiences with family, spend it all. Or the size of your jet. Yeah. Well, that's the joke about jet ownership is as soon as you buy a jet, you think you're cool until the guy with a bigger jet rolls up. [laughter] I mean, I've parked next to Taylor Swift's jet, Jeff Bezos's jet, and you look like you got a really small pee pee. Did you ever feel broke pulling up in your jet and seeing like the next guy over there? No, actually it was um it it actually robs a lot of the enthusiasm of like be a billionaire because I had the exact same experience as them which isn't like look private flying private is great but I'm using the same bathrooms the same like FBO where you get your rental car and you get your little snacks or they hand you a little glass of champagne or whatever unless you're a pilot then you don't get any obviously. Um, it's the same thing they do, the same little golf cart treatment to take you from the side of your plane to your rental car. They drive the car to it's the same exact treatment. So, it kind of like owning that aircraft for 3 years sort of burst the bubble for me. I was like, ah, all right. It's like I don't even >> But you still have the motto billionaire or broke. >> I do. I do. Yeah. >> So, it didn't quite burst the bubble. >> It burst the enthusiasm of what money can buy. Uh I still have that as sort of like an entrepreneurial goal because it means that house hack was a success. Reinvest was a success that that number if I have a billion dollars the people who invested in house hack early should be very well off on their investments right uh so that's a that's sort of a dream and a milestone of mine like trying to create like a mini Birkshare. I know Bill Aman wants to do that you know and I admire that. I think that's great. I'd love to do that but it's certainly the private aviation. It's great. It's awesome, but it doing it sort of bursts the bubble of how great it is. >> So, walk us through the purchase of the jet. How much was the jet? What was the payments like? How much did it cost to have a private jet? >> Uh, we bought it for uh 12.9. Uh, we sold it for $69,000 more than that, which was really weird because my tail number was 694 PP from the very beginning. So, it's sort of weird that it's sort of like, oh, you got $69,000 for your prime plane, right? Weird how that worked out. Uh, but fate loves irony, I guess. But, um, on a monthly basis, I mean, uh, I put 25% down on it. I wrote off >> all of that $12.9 million year one, which was great cuz I paid like no taxes that year. >> Uh, the problem is when you go to sell it, you get to pay all that back, >> which I did. And I was actually really grateful to because when you own a plane every single month you hate going to the mailbox because it's like here's your $70,000 mortgage. Here's your $100,000 Ventura property tax bill you had no idea existed. [laughter] Right. Here's your insurance renewal. Oh, you're going to fly your own aircraft. That'll be $135,000 for insurance for a year. So, the bills are insane and you really have to have a lot of FU money to do it. I'm grateful that we had the opportunity, but it it got to the point where a I wasn't flying a lot and then it becomes a really expensive paper weight. Like, in order to justify it, you probably need to be flying two or three times a week. And it got to the point where the only flying I was doing was off this coasting around on top of Santa Barbara stalling the plane because it was fun and I called it practice and that's how I knew I'm like this is stupid. >> So how much was it costing every year to have a private jet? >> Uh probably 3 mil >> $3 million per year. Yeah. >> Is that expenses? Not not even an equity building. >> Yeah. >> Was that stressful? >> Yeah. [laughter] You don't keep practicing that because it's going to catch [laughter] and it's it's going to stick. >> So, you spent $10 million on owning a private jet for three years? >> Probably somewhere around probably somewhere around that. Yeah. >> Was it worth it? >> Yeah. I wouldn't change it. >> Would you buy a private jet again? >> I should say no. [laughter] Uh I should say no. Uh but uh honestly uh I I probably will again in the future. Yeah. >> What's the worst waste of money you've ever done? >> A jet. [laughter] Outside of a jet because you said nights in Vegas, you said this, you said that. I'm curious. >> Yeah, but experiences are so worth it. You know, all of that I'd loved. >> So what's something you did that was not worth it? >> But one thing is not worth it is like getting to the point where the regulators are starting to like breathe down your neck. So I was trading a lot of options for a period of time. Uh, and then I got these letters. They're like, "You need to register as a large options trader and we're going to monitor every single one of your trades. The SEC is going to be breathing down your neck." And I'm like, "Hm, this is not really a game I want to play with." So, uh, and what's weird about that is soon after that, the SEC is like, "Oh, by the way, give us all your on house hack. We're going to do a colonoscopy on you." And they did for nine freaking months. Like, and it's not just like, oh, send us this one statement. It's send us everything. Like, they go through, they're like, just send us your general ledger, every bank statement, access to your Discord, your courses, your vid, everything. Deeds for properties, appraisals, everything. Closed it. No issues, no comp. >> When was this? Uh, that would be May 2025 through about a month ago. >> Holy crap. >> What were they looking for? >> Well, I mean, think about it. YouTuber raising money on YouTube, flying around in a private jet, telling people that he's not using any house hack money to pay for the jet. >> Let's see the proof. I give him respect though because in fairness from the day I created this company I told people I go look anybody who's ever worked for me I said YouTuber plane raising money on the internet it's not if it's when they will come and they will look at everything and it's fine it worked out we were prepared for it this is why we're PCAB audited which like no private company is but ignoring all that for a moment your question was what is like basically almost like something you would spend money on that that was a mistake. Anything that would attract bad regulatory attention, even if you're totally innocent, it's still a burden. It's like it feels like you're going through a lawsuit, right? It because somebody's examining everything you're doing. And I'm sure they still are. Now, in fairness, I feel fortunate because I went through a lot of securities licensing tests. Uh, you know, I had like kind of know a little bit about the finance world in that sense. So, I felt more prepared, but it's a lot. And I I just anything you could do to stay out of the radar worth it. Remember when I ran for governor? I ran for governor and I commented on somebody's stock portfolio and then Gavin Newsome sent his California version of the SEC after me and then they ended up finding me five grand because they said, "You raised money making YouTube videos talking about stocks. You gave personalized financial advice on a YouTube video. We'll settle it for five grand." I cut the check. It wasn't worth it. But my point is don't attract bad regulator attention. Be a good boy. Do the right thing. >> What kind of options trading were you doing in order to get the regulators attention? >> Uh just like massive volumes worth of like zero days. Uh so >> you were like that's almost gambling to this. >> So you were buying call options that expire on the same day that you were buying them. >> Heck yeah. The problem is if you spend too much money, the very movement of your own money can move the market and that's a problem. You don't want to do that. So I can like I >> So you were moving the market. >> I don't know that I was, but >> you had an effect that caught their attention. You must have some degree of movement in the market >> to a small degree. >> Right. Right. So I'm like, okay, I got to get out of the radar. This isn't worth it. >> Explain these options, though. I'm curious. what stocks were they were you making money on it and >> oh yeah yeah so I would do things like um uh you know hey I you know I think Nvidia is going up I'm going to buy a oneweek call expiring next Friday or uh I think the cues are going to this today and uh so now what I do instead because again my baby is house hack that focuses on that uh what I do now is I just do a report in the morning I go here are my ideas like for example today was hey I think we're going to 7:18 to 7:20 on the queue so on triple use and we went from 714 to 71950, right? Okay, great. Great call. Not every day is perfect. I think we have a really good track record on that. But the point is I used to make all the trades and I think the concern was were my dollar volumes influencing the actual market. >> You wouldn't on the Q's like on other lower cap stuff and there's so much volume on that. >> Y. >> So are you still doing those trades though? >> I don't trade anymore. Yeah, because of that, I just I don't want the radar. I I've I've had too many colonoscopies. I've had a personal colonoscopy, the SEC colonoscopy. Too much, man. [laughter] >> Too much of a radar on me. >> What was the largest amount of money you made in options trading? And what was the largest amount of money you lost >> individual trades? Probably plus or minus 300 at a time, which is crazy for option swings >> in a day. >> Well, yeah, >> like zero day or weeklies. >> Well, so one example was uh this was a it was awesome. I made a bet on Tesla and it was a oneweek option and I said I'm going to hold this over the weekend and then there was news over the weekend. I I think I flooked into it but I saw that the volatility was really really low. So what I and this is a lesson for anybody who trades options. I like buying options when the volatility is low, the historic volatility because they're cheaper to buy and I like selling options when the volatility is high. It's very simple. You could look at historic volatility graphs. Not everybody's into options, but uh I think Alpha Query has some good options. Uh Bloomberg Terminal, Refinitiv Terminal, you know, there are plenty of tools you could look at these, but most people don't. I just I want this option because I feel this. So, it was a low volatility uh entry and there was news over the weekend and when you go from low volatility and added news, volatility skyrockets. So, the options premium went through the roof and within 10 minutes of market open, I'm like, get me out. [laughter] I'm taking my profits. Had I held on, I probably would have made another 30%. But that's always how it is, right? You always sell and then it goes up even more. >> Jack has a great option strategy that all of us call kind of dumb, but Jack swears by it. And we're not going to go too deep in the weeds here because he'll talk to you for an hour about it, and I'm sick and tired of hearing about >> selling calls. >> Yeah, I'm just selling covered calls on stocks that I think are either fair valued, maybe a little rich, maybe a little bit cheap, but they have the high implied volatility. And so something like Robin Hood, which I think is a pretty blue chip stock, you can get two to 3% selling weekly covered calls. And realistically, you're going to make your money back. Or if you just consider as decreasing your average cost by 3% per week. If the stock goes up, I don't really care if it gets called away from me, cuz the only way that I see it is in terms of a weekly percent change. And an annualized return is only just 52 weeklys combined. And if you can make on average 2 to 3% if everything goes according to plan. If it doesn't, it's fine because you're still holding Robin Hood and you made two two to 3% on the premium, right? Like I I I I don't see how you can lose except for the tax consequences. Those can be pretty brutal. But I've been doing it in my Roth IRA and it's been going extremely well. Even with QQ Roth is brilliant. >> QQQ, you can still make like like 30% annually selling dailies because they have daily options. So how So Jack's question is this. >> Why isn't everyone making 90% a year selling call options? That's not necessarily, Mike. >> But that's what he implies >> because the market makers take all the money. Uh I hate to say that, but the the more uh options volatility there is, the bigger the spreads are. The market makers never lose. I like that strategy. What you're saying, if you're like, I'm married to the stock, I want to hold it. Great. In fairness, Robin Hood has also gone from $140 down to 70. I like Robin Hood. I happen to actually like Vlad and I think it I actually think it's at a fair price, right? it it shouldn't be down this low. Uh but a lot of finance stocks are down. So it's not just Robin Hood. Like SoFi went from like 35 bucks down to 16, right? It's just we are in a momentum driven market right now. And what's sexy right now is hardware and nothing else. Software's in the toilet. Finance stocks are in the toilet. Real estate stocks are in the toilet. Some of the pharmaceuticals aren't even doing well right now, which is crazy. So we're momentum driven. That's why Bitcoin people are like, "Why? Well, the stock market's at all time highs. Why is Bitcoin not at all times?" Well, it's not at all time highs because that's not where the momentum is right now. The momentum is in hardware stocks. That's it. So, who makes money in the meantime? The market makers. That's why all the um betting markets love people betting on like the stupidest, most random crap ever because the spreads are the widest. The bigger the spread, the more money they make. They don't make a lot of money on you selling options on the cues because the spreads are really tight. They're going to make more money on Robin Hood. But in fairness, a lot of your option money is probably getting paid by the yolo weekly buyer. >> Yes, that is [laughter] exactly right. That's why you have to go to Wall Street Bets and find the people that are shooting that volatility up and like paying crazy rich prices where if you're getting 3% on a blue chip stock. Like >> the thing is even if the stock goes down, it doesn't matter because it's such a large percentage relative to the the share of the the stock that like I don't understand how you can go wrong. Jack doesn't understand that he could have his shares called away, the stock pops 15% and then and then he's saying, "Well, I'll buy back in." And then he buys back in and the stock drops 15%. >> But is that going to happen every single week? >> It's going to happen. I think you'll average probably less than if you had just held the stock and done nothing. I think that is possible, but this is more predictable. >> Yeah. I mean, it's uh it's How much work do you want to put into it, too? >> [laughter] >> for me all I do is like like the top of the week Monday I just sell a call on Robin Hood and I'm doing a test right now because we collaborated with the money guys and we went back and forth on this strategy and I was like guys I've never done it like weekly because it's just never been worth my time and everyone tells me it's a dumb idea so I just believe what they say and so I'm like I'm not going to do it but now because we're all in a group chat I can add you to the group chat and I send my reports every week and I will say and guess who's up 3% in one week this What's interesting is there are a lot of hedge funds and financial advisers who know that there are so many people who are buying these short-term options that you can make some spread. So yeah, you're you are picking up onto something that institutions love. >> You have to go into the stocks that have the high volatility, the stocks that everyone's super hyped about because realistically if you try to sell calls on something with a bunch of volume, like you want to sell calls on Apple, like no one is going out there buying weekly calls on Apple because they think it's going to pop, right? Unless if maybe they're doing a a new drop or release. But on something like Robin Hood that dropped as much as it did, everyone is just waiting for it to completely skyrocket, which even if it does and I get the bag called away, it it doesn't matter. >> The bag. Oh, >> well, to me, the way I see it, it doesn't matter because I still made my 3%. >> That's fair. >> So, yeah, I agree with you. If you go to the ones where everyone's chasing the the money, then it's it's funny and that's why so much of this makes me think like the Millennial Money podcast would could be like all over this, right? the the the good old days, if you will. Uh but it it's it's so funny because I feel like a lot of us I I guess I can't speak for everybody but it certainly seems like you guys uh and um uh and me to some extent here feel like hey like there's so much to talk about in finance but we are also so removed from that daily struggle of you know filling up the tank or your credit card bills or you know wanting to get ahead and get a home or you're having a baby and it's like crap. These are a lot of expenses. So, it's fun to talk about all these things, but I I go back to like the early part of the pod where we're like, man, how does this affect like the consumer, that regular person, and it's I I I think every single year from now, over the next 10 years, it's just going to get harder and harder and harder. So, if there's any motivation to leave from all of this, I would say the sooner you can grind and make more money now, the better because it's just going to keep getting harder. So, if you're to give one piece of wisdom off of that, what would it be to the viewers? So, grinding is very like it's hard to quantify. >> It is because you got to grind on the right thing, right? So, uh you know, like I always make the analogy, you can only be so good of a forklift driver and you could go, you know, do laps in the forklift all over and over and over again, but you know, your money is going to be capped. To some extent, the same is true of being a pilot. uh you know, how many times can I land this plane and how smooth can I make that landing? You're not going to get paid anymore if you butter the landing, right? So, uh it's got to be where you're able to make more money and usually that's entrepreneurship. There are though people who can work for startups or larger corporations that have growth. You know, a company that's growing, great place to work. You don't have to be on your own. a place you can clock in at 8 and clock out at five is great, especially if you're at a growing company because eventually you'll probably get stock options and and you'll be able to grow with that company. So, I'm a big fan of being either at a company that's growing uh or finding a vertical that you could really use your energy with AI uh and accelerate like bookkeeping, we said, accounting, whatever, lending. You know what Chris Camilillo said? He said his prediction was that podcasters over the next 10 years are going to be the next like professional athlete. That's interesting. The New York Times just had a piece yesterday about how YouTube is so desperate to like get even more podcasts onto the platform. They're going to celebrities. They're presetting up sponsors and they're like, "Hey, do a podcast, host it on YouTube. We'll get it all set up for you. We'll even place your first sponsors so that that very first episode you make, you already know you're going to get paid X dollars by this plan. >> I think it's a terrible idea. >> I actually I actually think it's a a great idea. >> I think it's a terri No. No. Just because they're famous, they could attract initial attention. It happens all the time. They start a podcast. They get a few episodes that hit and then it's boring as hell. You have to be >> You have to pick the right guy. You pick a Matthew McConnA. He's going to have a banger podcast. >> He doesn't need to do a podcast. You have to find someone hungry enough and interested enough to do podcasts and in the game of the algorithm. >> I will say like LeBron James, his podcast does incredibly well. Like you have other sports people that are not podcasters. Like you want to tune in to the to the podcast where they're talking about, you know, game seven finals and and and it's an XNBA player and they're being they're able to cover it. Like that's you can pick the right person if you find the right talent. I do think that there's still like a ton of demand. >> Even like the the rewatch podcast like the >> listen I think there's a lot of demand for podcasts. My my thing is that if you're bringing in a celebrity is the pull. I don't see that at all. >> I I don't get it. I I think YouTube channels and media are so fickle that it's like a needle in a hay stack and like, hey, you you maybe do a hundred of these and a few of them stick and it's just a numbers game. >> I mean, I agree. You have to be entertained. >> There are some podcasts that are popping up now that are like covert big mainstream media. Like there are some even in the finance space and and they're getting like a lot of these podcast interviews or whatever with people from finance and you dig into it a little bit and they literally work for CNBC, you know, or Bloomberg and they don't advertise that they do. So they come across as like, "Oh yeah, I'm just so excited." >> You know what's so funny, man? Uh there's a big company that I did a like a free consulting thing with >> and I was telling them their social media sucked [laughter] and my advice to them was start a podcast. >> Do a podcast. you have access to like all these people, all these like the top talent, like this would be the best use of They didn't listen to me. >> And I'm I'm honestly like I'm looking at that and think you're an idiot for not listening to me. But I think for big businesses out there, that's the best way to do it. Oh, totally. >> I don't know why Robin Hood does not just like acquire us, dude. >> Or like, you know, it's it's so incredibly if we just had the Robin Hood things right here and there was a Robin Hood segment on every podcast or I could show my Robin Hood collapsing portfolio. If I could just show that every episode. >> He's literally buying call options every week zero day. >> No, no, because because you get these uh what is it these big like like Black Rockck is buying uh YouTube channels. What is this? What do we call it? Like institutional buyers are coming and buying YouTube channels. >> Oh, I didn't know that. Hu. It's It's massive >> cuz I know Robin Hood started their own podcast and they look at like stock charts and stuff like There was this video that went viral that was like, "Your favorite YouTube channel is corporateowned." And they listed out a lot of YouTube channels that actually had corporate backing that you would never know. And believe it or not, because they have ownership, you don't have to disclose that like this is an advertised product. >> Wow. >> And so this YouTube video explained it and I'll just I'll link you you'll see it here on screen as we're talking about. >> I want to check that out. That's interesting. But I am astounded that we haven't gotten any offers and I'm thinking like we are the best acquisition for the for the right company. >> You're you're like putting a hot air balloon out there like hey guys >> we're for sale. >> Hey. Okay. Like obviously we wouldn't sell to like just Joe Schmo. >> Yeah. >> Uh but like listen if the numbers make sense like I got house hack shares >> if the Yeah. If the numbers [laughter] made sense. Yeah. We wouldn't just go to anybody. You know, China has a big budget. [laughter] I mean, >> Xinping comes over with his yen. >> Yeah, I have no problem complimenting his haircut. >> Hilarious to talk about the the latest like Chinese electric car. >> All just like dubbed in like [laughter] Mandarin. >> Oh my yen. You won. Anyway. >> Oh dear. >> That would be hilarious. I I told Jag, I don't think I've ever talked about this before. 2021, I got an offer for $2.2 million to buy 10% to my YouTube channel. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Oh, wow. They were reaching out to all the finance channels at the time and what they wanted to do was IPO. They wanted to acquire like a few dozen finance channels specifically >> and then IPO it and then people could invest in the stock >> which is backed by your YouTube channel and a portion of your earnings >> funnel into this. >> And I said no to it. And the reason why is because I said it's such a terrible investment to pay uh this multiple that they were offering me. I'm like, you're never going to make your money back. And then what's inevitably going to happen? The stock's going to fall. Yeah. >> And if my name is attached to the stock, it falls. >> Yes. >> There it goes. And it's not worth it because it's a bad And what's funny is that you I was talking to these guys in their 50s and 60s who are like corporate dudes and I'm telling them it's a terrible idea. Like your offer is more than G. It's just a really bad idea. You're never going to make their money ever. And what's funny is that I know a few of the channels that sold to them. >> Oh, interesting. and they are in the toilet. Yeah, because they were on the runup from like 2020, 2021. And I'm like, dude, I've never seen these views before. I've never seen this ad revenue before. >> It makes no sense at all. >> And this is not going to continue. And those channels that did it, their views dropped probably 90 plus%. >> And this this this stock is is in the toilet. >> Sure. >> Oh, so it actually did go public. >> It did. They Yeah. It's funny, or maybe not funny, but I I there's so many CEOs that I'll see that go on essentially CNBC and Bloomberg and they complain about how the stock market is treating their stock because they see it as a reflection on them and the quality of the business. And it kind of makes sense why a lot of companies are staying private longer. Like you've I think you've made videos on this before. Maybe not. I I don't know. But, uh, there's this idea that companies have stayed private a lot longer because why do you want to deal with being in the regulator's eyes? You've got a momentum driven stock market that's going up and down on a daily basis and the stock's down 5%. You're getting blown up with emails going, "What? What did you guys do wrong?" And it's like, "Bro, we're doing the same thing every day." Like, the stock market's manic. I honestly wonder if Warren Buffett would go public in this kind of environment that we're in today. I think it's an interesting thing to speculate about because I don't think he would. >> I am gonna give you a great idea for a podcast and anyone could steal this. I told you, Jack, I this is a banger idea. I started seeing these clips on Instagram of a father just talking to his toddler who's like 3 years old as a podcast. >> Wow. >> And you see the toddler in the chair with the big mic and he's like, "So, what did you do today?" "Oh, I want the this thing." And then I got mac and cheese. He's like, "What did you like? The mac Yeah, I love the mac and cheese. I can we get ice cream? And the guy's like, "Well, a little later we could get." Okay, because I really like ice cream. The vanilla flavor. And it's like so cute. How could you not watch that? And just it uplifts your day because it's like you're scrolling and you see >> this this disgusting vile stuff in your feed and negativity and then you scroll and you see just a kid just eating ice cream and having a great time. Like that's a great idea. Let me just say he has never had urgency to have a child and then he said this podcast and he said you could probably make like 30k a month on this [laughter] and and like and I'm like are you saying you now want to have a child knowing you could make a podcast to generate like you're going to get 30k a month and he's like well you know easy I'm like dude [laughter] >> it would be easy but how wholesome is that it's just a be because listen most parents >> dude for 30k a month freaking give me a shave my head bald give me a lollipop and I'll be the baby. Like, we could do that. You and me, man. I would almost pay 30K to be able to do that. [laughter] Big swirly lollipop. Yeah, dude. Count me in. >> You're You're in like a diaper. >> Yeah. [laughter] Doesn't matter to me. >> One thing that I found for me is uh or or my channel is we've really I try to niche it down really to a finance person. And it's way more even niche than I think you you do. like you do great, but like some of my stuff is just really niche into this finance person. And I uh I think it's, >> you know, either an entrepreneur who wants to build wealth or maybe I mean my average ages are like 25 to 45. That's sort of the big curve right there. I don't get a lot of high school or younger than that. I actually have more people that are seniors than are under 25. Uh, and for me, I think it's helped us build house hack, you know, because I look at it that when we first raised money, we raised 25 million, you know, and we've had more raises since then. The last fund raise we did, we raised $37 million. And so, what's interesting is even though I might get fewer views per video, we've raised more money uh than ever before. And so, I think it's because of niching down and providing more value on finance. And so if there's any reason I wouldn't do a podcast with Jack, it would probably be that [laughter] long-winded response to that. But >> that's fair. >> I do actually think, you know, like a family an occasional family vlog video would be fun. I don't know if anybody would watch it. I'd like to make it. >> What would do well is a family dinner podcast. Just a family table talking about like what did you do today? Clean the floors. I did this. What did you do? Oh, work was kind of tough. You know, Joe, who was over there kind of like fumbled a little bit. We lost a client this week, but like it's okay. And like the kids like I had my math test. I would love to just be a fly on the wall. I wish I could have a functional family dinner without kids throwing food at each other [laughter] or somebody screaming. >> Retention spike right there. >> Somebody crying, right? Like Yeah, true. I mean, there'd be plenty of those. But what at least with seven, it seems like there's always somebody pissed off. They all sleep well, but boy, we did not invest enough money into actually getting them to sit at the table. [laughter] Yeah, it's tough. You'll see one day. >> All right. >> Well, how many children are you going to have? >> I'd say two to four. >> And what about you? >> Two. >> Two, probably. >> Yeah. Yeah. Trying to get to 12. >> Are you really? >> Yeah. >> Why? >> I want double digits and I don't want it to be 10 and I don't want it to be odd. >> But [laughter] 14. >> Yeah. But what what joy do you get in having 12 kids versus seven? >> They're all different personalities. It's the weirdest thing. I thought they would all be clones. I honestly thought this uh that oh, five children all at the same time. They're all going to be the same. Every single one of these kids, even the identical twins, totally different personalities. Every single one of them. Jack, Max, totally different personalities. the five babies. Totally different personalities. I had a dad aura moment today. I got uh our uh one of our first of the the bunch uh twin, one of the first twins got her to go poo in the potty. >> That's that's a that's a big mile to do that. >> I got her to do it. Well, I saw her kind of like grabbing her leg pants and I'm like, "Do you have to go to the bathroom?" She's like, "Yes, potty." And so I took her over uh to her little potty and her sisters come running in. Everybody's looking and I'm like, >> "No, wait. Do Do you really have to go?" She go, "Shoes off, Dad. Shoes off." I go, "Okay, other girls out." One of those ones. >> It took her Yeah. took her pants off. Gave her her privacy. Put her down. Walked out. Came back. Giant poop. >> Greatest dad moment ever. >> Flush. >> She didn't flush. But mom didn't get it. Nanny's didn't get it. Dad got it. >> Wow. How did that feel? >> Oh, like I've been I think I've probably to Lauren like 20 times today. [laughter] And she's like, I I know. >> So, how do you not look forward to that? It's it's just it's just feal matter. [laughter] I don't know, man. It's just like it's a could have henta virus. [laughter] >> That's where it all started, man. >> It's just like it's it's a bodily movement. It's just like I don't But for some that's a big deal. But maybe it's different when it's your own. Like I hear that I'm like it's a it's a first though. It was her first time in a toilet. In a toilet. In >> a toilet. [laughter] Yeah. >> It's late. Do you know we go through about a thousand diapers a month? >> Yeah. >> That's a Mediterranean diaper. >> Children. >> Isn't Gavin Newsome giving you some diapers? >> That's true. Yeah. Baby born more free stuff. >> Good. >> Gas might be 750 and houses might be unaffordable, but you'll get free diapers and we'll tax you 55%. [laughter] >> Welcome to California. technically structure your income under the poverty limit to then be able to get like all the free subsidies. Yeah, sure. You could also take write offs. Yeah. Like I mean if if you buy equipment, right, and depreciate it, whether it's a plane or whatever. Yeah, you could you could write your income down to zero, qualify for medic cal. I I don't structure my income that way, but I think there are a lot of handouts and I it's going to get worse. >> Are you doing the Trump account? >> Well, my children were born after the Trump accounts. I thought you could. >> Can you enroll? >> Yeah, >> I would do it. Sure. Because I do 529s for them. Uh I pay the children to hold coupon codes. Uh so that way they earn a salary and they have earned income and then they can invest in their Roth. Uh so I'm a big fan of that. I'd consider the Trump accounts. I I haven't really looked into that yet. I thought it was just they had to be born. So I >> I could be I could be incorrect. I'll look it up. Great thing to look up. Uh but uh >> it's $5,000 >> uh >> total across the kids. >> I'm a big fan. I think it's great. Any of those tax advantages, HSAs, I'm a big fan of use them. So uh yeah, but more children. >> All right, Kevin. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you for the flexibility. This is pretty last minute. We have one final question. If you were to leave the viewer with one piece of advice, what would it be? Don't ever skimp on experiences. Spend on experiences with the people you love. And the second thing is if you're jaded about AI, know that 80 to 90% of other people are as well. You got to be part of that 10 to 20% that's going to take you to the next level in whatever you do. And if you can do that, no matter what your job is, you will always get a job at any corporation. You'll be the last to get laid off. >> What's your advice? >> I didn't think you were asking me the question. So like Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat] First thing, go ahead. First thing is just always work more. But like I don't know if that's I'm always just like just double down. Just whatever you're doing, just work work more. >> It's It's weird. I I have honestly I feel like I've been working fewer hours and getting more done. And I I'm not just blaming Yeah. But I've had time to go on runs and walks and go to the gym. Uh you know, I cook bread now. I have a little garden. I a little moss garden. I bought a gong. I play my gong, >> you know. >> Okay. Well, here here's I'm going to dive deeper now. Now I've had time to think. I think most people only use a small fraction of what they are capable of. >> And that if you had a to their head and they say you have to do this or it's over, they'll do it. So they have what it takes to do it. >> But most people don't operate like that. And they'll not utilize everything they could. And so I think if you just approach the day as though you have to do it otherwise lights out, you'll be able to accomplish so much in the same amount of hours that you wouldn't otherwise have done. >> I agree with that. I mean Jensen just did an interview like 10 days ago, CEO of Nvidia. He said uh you're underestimating your potential. That was sort of his like walk away line. like you're and it's essentially the same thing what you said just in a different manner which is you don't even realize that you can do so much more you know I I do this little trick where there are many times I don't want to work out or I don't want to do a work project or I don't want to send an email or I don't want to write the letter and so I call it micro grind and I I try to convince myself like okay I I I have those feelings coming in that I don't want to do this just get it done don't be a little bee like what Grant Cardone says don't be a little bee >> just get it done and then I make this little challenge out of it like, well, if I micro grind it and I just get it done really quick, then it's done. And I get it done and it's great. It actually gives me more free time. So, I agree with you. You know, you you could definitely double down and get surprisingly a lot more done than than you think in a day. Now, what's yours? >> One of the most important predictors of success is your response to failure. And I think that if you can see failure as an opportunity to learn and to pivot and do things differently, then you win from your successes because you won. Like there's a yield, there's a reward there. And then from your failures, all it is is more information. >> Yeah. >> Right. Like the thing that will cause you to lose is inaction, not action. And if you could see a failure as an opportunity to think, okay, what did I learn from this? And I'm going to try something a little bit differently this time. you're coming in with more of an educated perspective, a more experience-based perspective to increase your likelihood of success. And you feel right there, that's another opportunity. So, it's like how much consistency and how much I would say devotion do you have to the craft? I I think that's so amazing. I would actually say the best people to hire if you're at a company or or your manager is thinking about who to hire or who to promote, the best person to hire, the best person to promote is somebody who has had a lot of failures themselves because they have the experience and they know how not to fail and you know they're not going to give up if they fail. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you guys so much for watching. And by the way, if you want the extended version of this podcast because we had to cut it a lot for retention purposes because we know a lot of people uh might not be interested in some of the weeds and the nitty-gritty, uh feel free to join as a channel member and you're going to get the extended cut, no ads, no sponsors, and you get early access to all of our future episodes as well. So feel free to join. Really appreciate it. And I'm personally responding to all the comments on members. >> That would be absolutely incredible. All of your stuff is linked down below, Kevin. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. And lastly, we have a new business that we're working on. And if you want to be a beta tester of it, it has to do with credit cards. You'll get some money back. You if you if you're nerding out about like sign up bonuses, getting the most amount of money that you can, squeezing every drop that you can out of the cards, sign up. The link is also down below in the description. You will not regret it. >> All you have to do is go to extradoll >> extra.com. >> extradoll.com to sign up. bought the domain. $7,000. >> I think it was $5,000. >> $5,000. Guys, thank you so much. Until next time. >> Until next time.