Still Standing: Wayne Davis Reflects on the LGBT Purge

Uh good evening everyone. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Uh my name is Taran Urkhart. I am the arts and special events programmer here at the library. Uh, I'd like to begin this evening by acknowledging that the West Vancouver Library resides within the traditional, ancestral, and unseated territory of the Squamish Nation, Slaywood Nation, and Musquam Nation. We recognize and respect them as nations in this territory, as well as their connection to the lands and waters around us since time immemorial. Tonight's program is presented in conjunction with Love in a Dangerous Time, the Canadian Museum for Human Rights traveling exhibition currently on display in our main hall. I hope you all have had a chance to see it, but it will be with us until September 15th. So, there's lots of time for you to explore the info panels and watch the television where Wayne is also speaking on the television. Um, Love in a Dangerous Time explores the history of the LGBT ET purge, a decadesl long campaign in which thousands of members of the Canadian Armed Forces, the RCMP, and the federal public service were investigated, harassed, and in many cases dismissed because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. I also invite you to visit at the table, an exhibition by Salt Spring artist Janette Sirwa on display in our East Gallery upstairs. Oh, there's two prints also on the way out the of the building. Uh through a series of powerful portrait drawings, this exhibition explores the systems that have shaped and regulated queer and trans lives, offering a thoughtful perspective that complements the themes of love in a dangerous time. We've also put together a full suite of related programs and events throughout August and you'll find them all in the brochure which I've already handed out and there's more on the table. As we gather tonight, I am reminded that our history includes times when people were judged, excluded, and persecuted simply because of who they were or whom they loved. The LGBT courage is a powerful reminder reminder of the harm that can result when fear and prejudice are allowed to shape our institutions and our communities. I believe libraries have an important role to play in ensuring that stories like these are not forgotten. There are places where history is preserved, where meaningful conversations can take place with respect, and where people from all backgrounds are welcome to learn from one another. It is through learning, listening, and sharing our stories like this evening uh that we build stronger, more compassionate communities. So, with that, I would very much like to welcome tonight's speaker, Wayne Davis. I know he's going to tell you a lot about his life, so I don't feel like a little introduction and bio is going to be the best way to move forward. So, I'm just going to let you take the stage. >> And thank you so much for being here. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much, Taran, and and thank you uh personally for arranging this exhibit and for uh the library itself. It's it takes a certain amount of courage even today to bring exhibits like this into a public space. It it always comes with a little bit of backlash and a little bit of controversy and it does take a certain amount of corporate courage and I really appreciate that in the library here. As the purge fund, we try to do what we can to support organizations like the library and and the municipality that are doing good work and uh we just have come out where we can and take every opportunity we can to tell people about the story of the purge. So, I am Wayne Davis. I'm a director of the LGBT purge fund. I'm a purge survivor. We call ourselves survivors of the purge rather than victims of the purge. and um I'm very pleased to be here to talk to you today. Um I'd like to uh give you a bit of the history of the LGBT purge itself. I'd like to tell you a bit of my personal story and uh I' I'd like to say what will follow what followed after the purge and where we're going today. Um I'd also like to ask you because we are a small group. If you have questions, don't don't worry about uh interrupting me at the time. If you need clarity on something, I sometimes talk fast, you get to know the what you're talking about so well, you forget you're telling people something new, right? So, please uh slow me down or uh inject any questions you have as we go along. You folks at home as well, put it in the chat and Taran will interrupt me on your behalf. Okay, thank you. Uh this is uh the exhibit upstairs came from the Canadian Museum of Human Rights and they defined the purge as one of the longest one of the longest running and largest scale violations of the human rights of any workforce in Canadian history. And what was the purge after after uh World War II? There there was the communist scare. There was great fear that the communists were going to take over North America. They were going to take over the world. So it was called the red scare. And part of the red scare was uh protecting national security. So Canada and five other countries who shared their intelligence or national security, Great Britain, the United States, New Zealand, Australia, and Canada, all had a purge and it's because they shared information about security. The purge actually started in Canada with a with a Russian spy who uh came to the Canadian embassy and said that he wanted to defect and he advised the Canadian government that the Canadian government was full of Russian spies and that started the Red Scare. People think of McCarthyism and it being south of the border. It actually technically went south of the border, but it was in essence starting at the same time everywhere. Everyone had a fear of the Red Scare. Uh what happened is, as we all know, McCarthy eventually burned out. The Red Scare burned out, but whole organizations have been set up by governments to look for traders, to look for potential leaks in security. So what happened is it became the lavender scare. They looked at it and said we we can't find any communists or people are tired of us looking for communists and the public is getting fed up with it. Who else might be blackmailed into giving up state secret? Ah those perverts homosexuals that work in the government. they'll give up state secrets. And that became began the Lavender Square uh square. And over over the course of of the years, um the government of Canada, the purge, find binding people and getting them out of the military, RCMP and public service was taken on by the RCMP for the public service and the military for the military. And they estimate that a pop approximately 9,000 people were fired from government or dismissed or uh uh directly removed from the uh the public service and RCMP and military. But in addition to that, there's the ones that quit voluntarily because they could no longer take the pressure any longer. So it was a at one point the RCMP had 22,000 little index cards with people that they were following that they were suspecting it. It was an actual uh business of the government. What effect did the purge have? It it was uh it shamed. They fired. They harassed. They had interrogations. Some of the military people were taken into hotel rooms and interrogated for days at a time. Uh they were institutionalized. Some people spent time in mental health institutions and psychiatric wards because of their devian. And they they were criminalized as well. And this led to trauma uh diminishment, shame, PTSD in some cases. I know many military veterans that you got to remember this is a person's identity, not their career. When you're military or a cop, it's more than being having a job. It's an identity. So, I know many military people who actually suffer now from PTSD because they never regain their identity. They they lost their identity along with it. And of course, we don't talk a lot about people that just simply committed suicide because they couldn't tolerate the harassment. Uh, any questions about the purge in general? That's what the purge was. It was a a hunt that lasted from the end of the war until 1992. >> That was my question because I was trying to remember if I'd heard what year that was. So make sure >> so that the purge was a a it was winding down in the government by about 1985. It was winding down in the RCMP about by about 1986. But think about that. This is the 80s. This is well after gay liberation. And this is 198586. It ended in the military in 1992. And it's because of this young lady who I know well, Michelle Douglas. She was in the military. She was a young soldier. She was fired in in uh 1989, I believe, from the military. And in 1992, she finally found an a lawyer and sued the government of Canada for discriminating against her and firing her for being gay. Uh she along with three other individuals in three other lawsuits uh the government had before them. Michelle is is kind of known as the person that ended the purge, but there were four four four lawsuits against the government. But what we found in the record is there's a letter going from the head of uh um the the head of justice to the prime minister saying we've interviewed this young lady and she and four other people have lawsuits against you for discrimination. We've spoken to her and if the government of Canada doesn't settle her lawsuit and any related lawsuits, the government of Canada will be incredibly embarrassed. And that was enough for Prime Minister Maloney to finally shut down the military because for about 8 years it had been a simple matter of the military doing their own thing and ignoring their political masters. and and they finally just said enough. End the purge in the military. And that was in 1992. This is me working at Jimmy's super duper market. High school dropout booking in the back room on my break. Those were the good old days. They So, uh, I was a high school dropout. I was a bit of bum in the school. I'm quite bright and incredibly lazy. So, I was 20. I was working at Jimmy Super Duper Market. A couple of buddies of mine uh that I hung with wanted to go down and join the RCMP cuz her dad was in the RCMP. My mom was hounding me. Why are you still here? Right. Should you be like getting on with your life? And uh I we also because we're we're a group of about 20 young uh 20-year-old young guys and we also chummed with a young Maui because he was like 22 and had just graduated and we were his peers in the community and we were pretty civilized. We we we were lazy but not criminal. So I knew a Mounty. My friends were Mounties. So my friends Tom and Rob said, "We're off to the recruiting office for the RCMPD." We went down to the detachment and uh we all sent in our application forms and Rob was color blind, didn't get in the RCMP. Tom Funk the entrance exam pretty difficult to do. So that's me when I arrived all by myself graduation picture in Regina 9 months later. So that's how I got into the RCMP and it was a choice of career. I always admired them when as a young guy and and it was I wanted to be a Mounty and my friends just nudged me and knowing a young mounty nudged me but I never thought I also wasn't breaking up the gang. That was a bit disappoint. Um they one of them still in drum hour and you know so then I had 18 years I'm not going to brag I was stellar. I was unbelievable. I was this rocket ship. I was the youngest uh corporal in British Columbia in history. I was the youngest sergeant promotion in Ottawa and I was the youngest staff sergeant promotion in Toronto. And uh in 1985 I was dismissed simply because I was gay. So my trajectory was very much the cliff arrived. How did that happen? Um truth truth at the wrong time can be dangerous. I love that quote because it's so referred to me because all that happened was my boss called me into the office. By this time, I'd gone through a classic um small town, not knowing who you are trajectory. I I was in Drum Miller. I dated girls. I got married, got divorced, dated girls, then thought, "Wait a minute, this isn't right." Then started date guys. But that wasn't until I was like 29. By this time, I was 39 and I had settled nicely into the gay lifestyle in Toronto. So I could be a mounty from 9 to5 and I could be a comfortable gay man in the evening. Um because Toronto wasn't policed by the RCMP. So I never had any fear that anyone from work was going to see me. And I thought, well, if anyone sees me in a gay bar, they're in the gay bar, too. So So I I never worried about it a lot, right? Then my boss called me in the office one day and he said, "Wayne, you were seen in a gay bar. Now, let me tell you, 18 years, well, really only about 10 of them when I realized I was really gay. Looking over your shoulder, because the first two years I was actually illegal because we didn't change our legislation till 1969 and I joined in 1967. The rest of the time it was like I'm in this macho organization where you couldn't wear a pink shirt to work without being hassled and you knew what the attitude was and you knew you weren't supposed to be there. So you're looking over your shoulder all the time. And so when my boss said, "You're in a gay bar. Why are you in a gay bar?" I kind of threw open the closet door because it's a very tight space. And I was so relieved. I just said, "I was in a gay bar cuz I'm gay. Yay. Now I'm going to go back to work." was in my head. The response was, "That's unfortunate because we have a policy and you can resign or you can be fired, but you have to be out of here by 4:00." So, [clears throat] uh, I just want to Yeah, I just want to see what's happen. I did I did get uh I did get some personal reconciliation after that. I asked for a meeting with the commissioner right after I got fired. I had that meeting. We do. We all know Sen Robinson. >> Yeah. >> Everybody knows Sen Rob. >> Sen Robinson was going across Canada with a parliamentary committee on trying to determine how the chartered rights had worked out. This was in 1985 that I was dismissed from the RCMP. And that coincidentally was going across the country at the same time. And someone told Sven Robinson my story. and Stan Robinson called me and said, "Could you appear before this parliamentary committee?" So, I was able to appear before a parliamentary committee and tell my story. And you wouldn't believe how easy it was in 1985 because there was three women on the committee. And the RCMP had only had women women in it for a few years. And I said, "I don't have to say anything to you. Just think of every reason the RCMP says if women can't be in the RCMP and apply it to gay men and you've got the same thing. You can't ride around in patrol car. Someone's going to be hitting on someone. It, you know, it disrupts morale. There's chances of, you know, people cheating. It was exactly the same arguments as women except for the physical thing, but the same arguments about you can't work together because I don't know, for some reason apparently a woman and a man couldn't be in a patrol car. That was the argument against women and a gay man and a g and a straight man couldn't be in a patrol car either. So, it was a very very weird time. Uh, then I had a meeting with the I didn't get a meeting. I had a meeting with the deputy commissioner. tried to ask for a meeting commissioner and he told me it was very unfortunate but there was a policy. This was 3 weeks after I was let go. There was a policy and uh there was no chance of getting my job back. This is where I get not disrespectful of the RCMP. I I I found this out later. part of the class action lawsuit I'll tell you about is we got our records back and in my record um there was a my boss had sent in the letter saying yay I found a and I got rid of it to headquarters and was very proud of it I guess um doing his job thinking he's doing his job thinking there's policy there's a note I didn't get this until 2017. So, it's well, it's 30 years after the fact. Um, there's a note on on that file going back to the uh from to the legal department saying, "Why are we treating Staff Sergeant Davis differently from other members in similar circumstances? We don't have a policy on homosexual. I was fired uh because circumstances conspired against me because my boss didn't know the policy didn't exist that uh they too had mellowed over the years. Um the f the the problem then is um the let's keep this quiet that there is then a note on my file saying well what do we do now? Well, we have to tell the division, my boss who sent in the letter, that there is no policy. And what about Staff Sergeant Davis? We don't have to do anything because he re retired. Uh, >> so needless to say, I I was okay with getting fired when I was fired. I was really ticked off in 2017 when I found out I was fired by mistake and my whole career had disappeared. Uh people talk about being triggered and re-triggered. That was a big re-triggering for me. What I'm I always like to look at little sunshine here. I always try to look at the sunny side. I'm pretty sure after that they sent out notice to the division saying there is no policy. We don't fire people gay. I'm pretty sure I'm the final casualty of the RCMP. Only from what I see in my own file. There's no way that they would just be telling my division. They'd be making sure every division knew. It's some it's some form of consolation. And this is even a bigger form of consolation. I wear I I wear with pride my pride citation which is a citation from the government of Canada to thank us for our loss service to thank us for the service that we didn't have. It's one of the only um pre-official citations from the Governor General's office that have ever been done for the government of Canada. So we wear that with great pride. I being a little stubbornish and said I only want my citation if the commissioner gives it to me. And then uh quite some time after that, about a year later, the new commissioner asked me to speak at their equity conference um about the purge and uh and my story and the story of the purge. So I do have my own personal uh reconciliation. This it sounds like uh I did something spectacular by getting the commissioner to give me my thing. Only only one person wanted to present it in person. Unlike the military where there were hundreds military logistics for giving out citation were incredible. They had teams of people going across the country for a year handing out citations at formal ceremonies. Uh, I basically sent a note to the commissioner's office say going to be really easy for the RCF to do the citations. I think only 12 people 12 RCMP members were in the class action lawsuit and only five wanted the citation. Four of them wanted the mail and I I wanted mine. So, [laughter] it's not like I'm some person of power that I can control the commission. It was really easy and she was um absolutely delighted to do it. Really uh pretty pretty decent woman. [clears throat] But justice for me, justice for some really isn't justice for all. After after the purge ended, there was a an apology network was set up and everyone who's familiar with Justin apology to the community that back in 2017. God time gold thing. >> Yeah. >> 2017. >> Uh I I was there and invited to the apology again because I'm a bit tenacious. They they had um I was by then with the purge fund and they had asked the purge fund to send representatives to a committee to help the government write the apology. It was an unbelievable structure they set up just to write the apology, not to make it. And so I was invited to go and then I got a note saying, "We really don't need you anymore. We're going to restructure the committee." So I went back and said, "Tell me about your perfect little balanced committee you have for for our mosa mosaic in Canada. Make sure it's all politically correct." So I called the privy council office and they said, "Uh, oh no, that's not what we're doing. We're we're doing it differently. We're going to talk to you." And they did interview me for an hour and a half. But I guess because I'm a little bit whiny, I got an invitation before the apology from the Privy Council office saying, "Could you just buy a ticket and book your hotel and come to the apology to hear it in person from Prime Minister Trudeau?" So that is that's an image that I was sitting in front of um when the apology was made and uh it was it was really something to to sit up in the balcony in parliament to hear a personal apology. I was never a a an apologistic Canadian. We're very we we apologize a lot. And I was saying what is this apologizing for everything? Let me tell you, never underestimate the power of an apology because when it's directed to the people that are impacted, it's probably the most important thing in the world. Sorry, that's my choke point. It just it just knocked that attitude out from under me that I had. apologies are important and and very important and and and it still it rings very true. He um he's looking up at the balcony a lot during the apology or the the balcony in the uh parliament and that's because he wanted this moment to be witnessed by his kids >> and they and they were out there. Uh yeah, that's a pretty meaningful meaningful time for me. And my image is this big burly East Indian 250 lb security guard walking around with a box of Kleenex. Look at look at after all the weeping people up up in the G gallery. Then we had the class action lawsuit. These three fine people, Alita, Todd, Martin, found a lawyer. They they started a class action. 790 people joined the class action. These were the principles of class action suing the government for wrongful dismissal during the purge. Um the settlement was for up to $145 uh million that up to because they they had a formula for personal uh rec personal payment. And then then where I come from here today is part of that was a $23.7 million um uh uh fund specifically for memorialization and reconciliation of the purge. the first class action of that nature in Canada other than the cla the actions that come from the uh schools because they usually have a a pattern of of reconciliation and restitution. This is the first uh class action lawsuit of it of its kind that actually had something other than just direct payment to the agreed individuals. >> I have a question. I have a question. >> Yes. Are were we the only country of the five doing that or have all five countries had a apology restitution in recession? >> Um I I I believe New Zealand has apologies. I think Australian working on it. Uh the US is lagging. Britain has apologized and uh built a a monument and my friend at the back here and I were just talking about other countries have apologized for their um behavior toward the community through hiring practices. So there has been some uh we were talking about Germany early has done it. So many countries have done it. The the purge countries have of varying degrees really. Canada is front runner uh most certainly through this class action. This is 2017. So uh 2018 we we formally became the purge fund and and we incorporated so that we could get that $27 million from the government. We thought, wait a minute, if we don't if we don't have an entity, we can't get the money because the um final settlement agreement said there will be a a uh committee. It didn't say it had any entity behind it. So, the first thing we did and spent some money on was getting ourselves incorporated as a nonprofit. And then the government quite willingly just said, "Great, we don't have to worry about it. Take your money and run." And what did we do with that money when we ran? Um, I think I just said all this. >> Yes, it had to be. Yes. >> Oh, sorry. >> No, >> I had a question and then I forgot it because I started reading. But I where the class action was it started in Ontario? >> It was in the course in Ontario. Alita was from Quebec and so they had to register. They had it registered in two provinces. There was two separate ones going. The one with Todd and Michelle Martin and Alita had one going in Quebec and they decided that they would turn Alita's file over to Ontario and it would be in the Ontario courts. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And and that's were also incorporated in Ontario. >> Okay. >> Right. And it has to be spent on reconciliation. And basically we call this dead people's money because the memorialization fund is actually if you have a class action for people who were fired, what about the people that are dead? Because in Canada class actions uh you can't they they have no inheritance rights. So you can't say well my uncle was fired or my brother was fired or my partner was fired. there there are no succession rights to class actions. So they so those three fine people have the um intellect to say well what about the people that aren't getting any compensation and this is what what we have done for them. There was individual things for those that were alive and kicking. There was a letter a formal letter of apology. I got a letter of apology from the commissioner. The um public servants got letters of apology from the clerky council and the um military people got letters of apology from the head of the military. The um access to individual records I've told you about that and how blew up in my face. But uh everyone wanted their records, right? What's interesting is part the part of the purge the history of the purge the history was lost. The story wasn't told. the story was buried. One thing that the survivors wanted was that people continue to know what happened to them. So, they didn't want the file expuned. But on top of my file and every other class member filed, there's a letter saying anything you see in here about homosexuality or or behavior related to homosexuality is not valid. So the file remains intact. For example, I see my record of what happened to me. If if it had been expuned and I I don't want people to know I was fired and they pulled the letter, there'd be no history of it. That was a very important part of class action. And we got the pride citation, which not my little talk me about prayer here. We got the pride citation as a a formal recognition of our service. These are our main projects, historical records. The records were lost. We didn't know what had happened. They wanted to find out if the purge was something that the RCMP and military ran away with or was it totally sanctioned by the government? After we started this surge in 2018, by 202 uh five, the evidence was there. Everyone right up to the prime minister ran and sanctioned this program until the prime minister stopped it. >> So it wasn't it it uh there was a theory that it was just the administrative process gone. It was a government sanctioned cabinet approved program. Um, we did a big project on improving training in the workplace, Canadian Museum of Human Rights exhibits, community memoralization grants, and we're building a national monument to the 2SLGIA plus history in Canada. [clears throat] >> Where will that monument be? We >> Sorry. >> Where will the monument be? The monument will be right in the center of Otta directly below, oddly enough, archives Canada uh on beautiful site on the bike path by by the river. It's an incredible site. There's a picture of it later on. It just just was finished. So I I mentioned the documents before. Um they're now accessible. You can go to the 2SLGB2 uh you can go to our website and if you got the energy and inclination you can go through 25,000 documents we've already received about the purge alone. Um it's a long process because they they they were reluctant and then a lot of them were uh data >> redacted >> duct. Um so we have we have we have a judge that actually works with with us and has the final say on examination. Um the justice department and us share the costs of arbitration about whether files should be released or not. And that is quite legitimately for national security. But what they were covering national security before was you know pretty weird things right. >> Wait. >> Yeah. Someone from home asks um did the class action did it go to a court hearing? >> Yes, absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. It it was a it was the final settlement agreement was a court approved. All of our work is court approved. Right. We are actually mandated what I'm showing you on the screen now. We are mandated to do this. It it's part of a a uh not we we don't have the uh ability to do what we want. We do what we're told by the courts and it's a privilege to be able to do it. Uh we we hired several organizations to go into government departments, the RCMP and the military and do a do a snapshot. What's it like today? How are things going? What's it like to work in these organizations now? Do they have a safe space? Do people feel comfortable at work? Are there any prejuditial policies? Right. and and a uh a report called emerging from the purge uh was written with 23 recommendations and then some very specific recommendations for departments. It was written given to the government the government of Canada said in their 2sbtqia plus plan for the government which they gave to departments. every department had to incorporate the uh emerging from the purge report. That was a big big step. Somewhere in Ottawa that report is sitting on the shelf and it's sitting on the shelf in many departments, but it was a step and um we nudged people. The military picked up on it really strongly. The RCMP is lagging. We have a meeting with the RCMP in September where we said specifically, hey, yeah, what's up with your our recommend the recommendations from the report? And they've agreed to meet with us and uh I don't see I don't see a lot of progress, but hopefully it is there. The government of Canada itself was pretty good from the very beginning on workplace improvement. the military lag, the RCMP lag, but everyone's aware. That's that's the one of the main things. Oh, we have a this popup exhibit is is the traveling exhibit that comes from the major 4,000 foot exhibit about the purge in the Canadian Museum of Human Rights. By far the largest exhibit of its of its nature ever. And the curating of it is great because I have my own panel. [laughter] I asked the curator, I said, "Why do only two of us have a panel the size of that door?" And he said, "Because there's only 12 people in the class accident were in the RCMP." So you get to represent every RCMP member that was ever fired. The rest they have, as you can see from upstairs, they have dozens of pictures of military people that were I literally am the face of the RCMP. Um, [clears throat] but it's it's rather flattering as well. >> Why do you think um fewer RCMP wanted the citations and were interested in being in the class action as opposed to the federal public service military? >> Why the RCMP were interested in it? >> Uh, less interested. You were saying earlier that they didn't want to get the citations and they weren't in the class action lawsuit as much. So, what is it about the RCMP do you think that makes people less involved? >> I have my own theory on that. >> I want to hear it. >> Which I'd love to talk to my AI. Remind me, Peter, that's my cousin. Remind me to talk about that with Chloe. Um my theory is that um the nature of the the RCMP were in looking at the public service the military were looking at the military. No one was looking at the RCMP. They they were so my view is that they as an institution couldn't imagine there'd be gay people in the RCMP. So they never bothered looking. >> And I and the more I think about that as a theory, the more I believe it's probably true because I worked in the RCMP. I know their nature. I know that they would not think that that they would no in our group. Let's get the real ones out there in the public service. Uh, and also I think there was a problem with um finding the class action people because where are you going to advertise? Like they put it in MLAN's magazine to have a class action people have to join the class action. Nobody knew about the purge. How do you get people to know about the class action? They're not going to read it in the RCMP quarterly because they got fired from the RCMP. They don't get the RCMP quarterly. They might, if they're on the prairie, be reading MLAN's magazine and they I I don't think they did a good enough job of actually promoting it. And what happened is the military is disproportionately well not disproportionately because a lot of people were fired in the class action about uh 70% is military and and 15 RCMP members and the rest are public service and I think that a lot of that has to do with the getting people to know about class action and the military happened to have its own very good network military people kept in touch with military people. Even after they left the military, they had military connection. I think most RCMP members that were fired tucked their tail between their legs and went home. And when they went home, they they buried it. So, but I like my first theory better. I I think basically I I really don't think they were looking. I can't envision them sitting there saying, "Hey, we better look around here, too." I I just in my head I can't see it at all. Um uh yeah. So that exhibit is running for another year in in Ottawa. Then then it is itself is going to travel to the capital. I think it's going to the war museum for a year and then they hope to place it internationally somewhere. Um I don't have to tell you about the popup exhibit. Pop up and see it. It It's a traveling companion for uh Oh, and it's interesting. Take a good look at this picture because you've got the new refurbished Fancy Many uh one. They they decided to uh wing it up a bit. I was really impressed when I walked in the door today. Um so, that's the popup exhibit as it was before it was refurbished. that is the only the entrance to the uh main exhibit in Winnipeg and that is uh a couple of our board members in front of what's called the niche visit. Uh it's a just a little bigger than that section there and a little deeper. It's about a 12 by 12 uh part that stays permanently after the main exhibit is gone in in the main galley gallery of the museum. We we do it a lot with community grants. We've given out over a million dollars worth of community grants. Everything from uh helping sporting new organizations. We have a coral group. We uh oral histories have been collected um medical research education and fellowships and uh research writing podcasts. and we're opening up a bigger uh grant program uh in the fall uh because we have some residual cash and we want to we want to get out into the community. Uh this is Thunderhead. Thunderhead is a indigenous story. It represents unstoppable energy and motion which we see as the gay movement as gay energy. Um and when the thunder herd head bursts, it brings on renewal of the land and renewal of justice and it breaks interiors from within. Um so it's our community rising up, all communities rising up to demand justice. And just for a little bit of fun, the interior is a disco ball. it. Um, so the Thunderhead itself is all it's it's going to be a very live acting. This is the the the rendering of the artist. This is today >> ready for the opening in August. So you can see the the the depth of the land behind it. It has a a fire circle. We wanted to make it national. So we went out and asked elders from every province and territory to collect a stone. The stones are placed around a sacred fire. So every province and territory is represented around this sacred fire at the back of the monument. It has a full orchard and it has an herbal u medicinal garden and it it it it'll it it'll accommodate um easily a thousand people on the site if they wanted to have events. We hope it's going to be used for events and it will be an interactive museum. It's interactive the extent that the disco ball is actually programmed. So, guess what color the inside of the ball will be on orange shirt day. >> Red dress day. [laughter] >> Little harder for you. Trans remembrance day. >> Purple mold. >> Oh gosh. >> Pink, blue, and white. >> Oh, sorry. >> Anyway, so so it's designed to actually commemorate human rights events. And uh our big problem now is vandalism already. We've had the wiring from it stolen three times because one of the only electrically powered monuments in Ottawa and it isn't direct. We expect direct sadly we expect some direct uh graffiti and stuff on the monument. We expect some vandalism, but this is just the conduits going down this very um not public area uh carrying the electricity to the site. They keep pulling the wires out because they can sell it. >> So, uh next steps, I love [snorts] being here today because uh I I love people knowing about it. uh we continue with our work of reconciliation and healing and um yeah I I've enjoyed so much talking to you and you at home and uh if you need to know more take one of my cards email me directly it also has the website on it for the bridge fund itself and um good old George those who cannot remember the past are condemned and repeated >> and that's what we're doing here today trying to make people aware. Merci. >> I invite people at home to send us any uh questions. We have a little time. Um I do have a few. Is there anyone or a few from home that I can ask you? Anyone? There you go. >> What is the origin of the symbol under Thank you. Oh, and that that is the um redesigned our original thing. It's a maple leaf. It's all of the original colors of the gay flag, the gay rainbow, which is it's that used to be 10, now it's eight. And um interestingly, because there are so many people involved in the purge that were military to respect them, it you'll notice that it's military chevrons. >> So that's that's why it's in a chevron shape. So uh what areas of uh industry now do you think uh has this discriminatory culture and uh what do you think we can do in a community like ours? So I'm trying to get out there in the community and uh already I'm facing some you know uh discrimination. >> Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because the the the discrimination in workplaces and like there's an organization called Pride at Work that we work with and and they're they're they're doing a lot of work within organization, but um Pride at Work sells this as their their their pitch. Support organizations that aren't discriminatory, right? Go to work for organizations that aren't discriminatory. ask the right questions before you go to work in organizations and make sure they're not discriminatory. But and and it's hard. It's like every I've always said even from elementary school where I taught to groups like this, I always say you just have to be a little bit of an upstander. You just have to be that little bit of advocacy. No one has to be a hero. No one has to carry it all. But what you have to do is just stand up a bit when you see something when you see something happening. You just say that's not right. Right. And and and especially high school kids, I say you're so nervous, you just got to stop laughing. You don't have no one's going to notice you're not laughing or if they do, they're just going to let it pass. But kids, when they're nervous, they'll laugh. So they feel in their gut, I don't like that. And there it's almost a physiological reaction, a laugh. And I say there's nothing more validating for a bully or for someone that's discriminating than getting a laugh. >> So I don't I don't know that particularly helpful. It's it's it's an ongoing thing. But I think certainly corporate is is well on top of it. But what we have to be afraid of is that our corporations don't start taking off on the US model. >> Yeah. because they basically shut down overnight in businesses, not just government, not just military, not just police, they've shut down their equity offices because they don't have to do it anymore. Right? We can't let that happen in Canada. If someone's trying to shut down the If you can't call an organization and say, "Could I talk to your head of equity?" And they can't give you someone to talk to, you don't want to deal with that organization, >> right? It's as simple as that. If they don't have it built into their structure, you don't want to be part of that organization. Any other uh does your organization have contact with with other countries who have gone through similar period? >> We that's why we're just over in Belgium. We've we've dealt a lot with the UK. UK is the almost identical military experience as we have. Vegas, Prince Charles just opened their monument. Um, to honor their work, we sent a representative over for that opening. Um, uh, I think on I I think Canada's scale is something for Canadians to be proud of, right? It it's, uh, it's it's interesting. It it's really those three people and their lawyer that allowed us as a nation to be front runners on this type of thing to be able to do things like going into the workplace to get all the government documents to give out grants to build a monument to to the history of our rights in Canada. That's that's quite a privilege and and it it shows. We we go out to international events and uh it it shows. And this popup will appear next year at the uh it's an international policing conference for all the equity people. The last conference I went to, there was 22 countries represented. Wow. 25 states from the US, every province in Canada. and that little box up there will be on display. So, yeah, we're we're pretty privileged. I also tell the high school kids, don't get too relaxed because we are so privileged, right? Because it still happens all the time. And I use the example, if you want to know what it was like being gay in 1985 and 1970 when I was sort of coming out, 75, just look what's happening to trans people now. Couldn't get a job. discriminated against, can't get an apartment, right? And so people say, "Well, this could never happen again." Well, it's happening, right? It's not that it couldn't happen. It's happening. And look south, right? Gays in the military. Trans in they they still have the don't ask, don't tell for gays, trans in the military, out the door the same day Trump opened his mouth. and and we think it can't happen here, right? It's it's um it's scary what can happen. But I think to your point, I think we have to watch corporations as well as our government and our military and our police that the rights slippage is problem now. Not you know, rights have been gained. And one downside of the gay community in Canada, we've done really well. So people think you're done, right? You can get married. You've got your rights. You don't have to worry about discrimination. And that's where the slippage starts, that you're no longer on the agenda. Right. [clears throat] >> I had just two little comments from home. The the person that asked about the um class action before really was asking, "Was there testimony in the court from purge survivors?" >> Yes. >> Yes, there was. [clears throat] Okay. >> Absolutely. >> Great. And they wanted um confirmation. Wayne, did you say that the policy had in fact been discontinued at the time you were fired >> back to when is that correct? >> In the RCMP, they simply stated they had no policy. >> Okay. >> Right. They had no formal policy and even this was all happening in the same window of about two or three months in the same window. This is a bit of a sorry a sidebar but as part of remember I said I appeared before a parliamentary committee in that parliamentary committee they had asked the commissioner if he had a policy. He said no but I can write you one. So what I've seen is an aid memoir from the commissioner of the RCMP to a parliamentary committee saying if we had a policy this is what it would be right and it it's almost shocking. It is so bizarre. And one of the main defenses for not having gays in the RCMP is to protect the gays. You know why? because gay people will get on straight members and they'll get beaten up by the straight members. So to provide a service to gay people, we just won't put them in that threatening environment where their fellow officers are going to be. This was in a document from the commissioner of the RCMP to a parliamentary committee. So I got lots to say at my meeting coming up with the commissioner [laughter] in September. This is a very comfortable audience. I don't usually ramble so much about I'm getting a little personal here. I think >> Thank you very much. >> Yes.