Steve-O: Childhood Trauma, Addiction, Mocking Death & Craving Attention!

It is of paramount importance that I find separation between me and the persona of Steve O. Why we have to go back to the beginning of my journey. I didn't get attention from my parents. My dad was a businessman and my mom suffered from alcoholism. Your father would praise you for stunts diving head first and he'd give $1. I don't think you have to be Sigman Freud to imagine that had something to do with becoming an attention [ __ ] That was when I started doing dangerous [music] stunts. I'm Steo and this is the fish hook. Why stunts? Growing up, I felt defective. And the thought was I wasn't going to live very long. So, I was lashing out [music] at death, taunting it. But I lost my mom in 2003, and that traumatized me more than anything. I was out of control, broadcasting my downward spiral to 200 influential people in real time. You were manhandled into a psychord. Yeah, this was going to be my legacy having miserably failed at life. And the toughest thing is that I wanted to make my mom proud. [snorts] Steven Gilchrist Glover aka Steo. Honesty. Honesty saved Steo's life. But the man that sits in front of me today isn't Steo. It is Steven Gilchrist Glover, which is a man you've probably never met before. But once you meet Steven Gilchrist Glover, you'll undoubtedly understand Steo, that guy that we grew up with on our screens doing those crazy jackass stunts that behind the scenes struggled with a deep discomfort of being in his own skin. depression, drug addiction, existential panic, an obsession with attention, crippling grief, and most surprisingly and paradoxically of all, a deep, deep fear of death. It absolutely doesn't appear to make sense. But once you listen to this conversation, if you listen closely, you'll understand exactly why that's driving him. This conversation will make you laugh. It will inspire you. It will motivate you. It will challenge you. It will make you feel understood. And it will teach you what it takes and what it means to live a good life, including the role that romantic love has played in Steo finally living a good life. And for me, it reaffirms to me once again that in order to live that good life, in order to find that good life, we need to surrender, stop fighting life, and we need to be honest. And once we are, we might just find all of the things that we're looking for. You're going to love this one. [music] Stephen. All right. You've lived a anomalous life. The man that sits before me today is an anomaly in many respects. The professional path you've walked is extraordinary to say the least. in order to understand you, what what do I need to understand about your your earliest context to understand who you are and why you walked the path you did in your life? What's the first sort of domino that that I need to understand? I would point to my uh lineage. My mom's side of the family is uh like the whole family tree. every leaf on the tree. Um suffered from alcoholism, some form of addiction um and and at the same time very uh personable um charismatic individuals but just very alcoholic and a lot of deviants. Then my dad's side of the family is uh super academic. Um there's a a lot of theologians, clergymen, everybody's got at at least like a master's degree or a PhD or they're, you know, highly decorated academia. And my dad broke the mold by becoming a businessman. Um, so I just kind of think that I am a little bit of a hybrid of both in that I definitely went towards deviance and suffered from alcoholism, but I had this rocket engine on it from my dad's side of the family. And as I've grown older, I think my uh I kind of manifest my dad's side more than my mom's side. Before we started recording, I said that one of the things that really surprised me, we're sat in London now, was to learn that you were born in London back in 1974. Yeah. Born in Wimbledon, um which makes me British. My mother was born in Canada, which makes me Canadian. And my father was born in America, which makes me American. I'm what you call triple national. Wow. And I hold three valid passports. I'm very jealous. It's cool. Like having the keys to the to the world in many respects. How how did that impact you though because you you told me that you were you born here. Your first words were in Portuguese, in Brazil, then you're in Venezuela, then Canada, then USA. as a young child that's figuring out the world and figuring out where he belongs and making friends. How does that sort of destabilization impact impact you in hindsight? I don't think you have to be Sigman Freud to imagine that uh that had something to do with me becoming an attention [ __ ] And um I think that it's actually exacerbated by the fact that when I moved to Brazil at the age of 6 months um I moved to Brazil because my father became the president of Pepsi Cola in all of Brazil. And it was just kind of living it up, you know. Um I think that's the best way to describe it. and I didn't get much attention from my parents. I was actually raised um by live-in maids, which is why I spoke my first words in Portuguese. So, I think I was lacking for some attention from my parents. And I think that that has something to do plus the instability and and always being the new kid in school. I was I never stayed one place for more than a couple years. Um, so yeah, I uh I I I point to that for why I became such an attention [ __ ] The the context that you were you raised in your your mother's at home, your dad's very very busy, very successful businessman by all accounts. Yeah. Not just busy, but traveling. Okay. My my dad was consistently gone. I I would argue that he was gone more than he was home and and mom was drunk um a lot. So I had um not just uh lacking attention but lacking supervision a lot of the time too. In 2023 we've learned a lot about addiction and alcoholism and those kinds of things. But I I imagine I mean I wasn't alive then, but back in 1974, people didn't understand that behavior as clearly as they do now. Did Did you understand your mother's behavior when you were young? Did you understand her relationship with alcohol was a an unhealthy thing or an addiction? I think so. Yeah. Um I think so because I remember um she would have these these binges drinking um where it it wouldn't be the case that my mom would get drunk at night and then wake up and you know have a hangover and and then get drunk again the next night. It was more of a case where she would stay drunk for for days or weeks on end. Um, and you how old? Sorry. Oh, um, like it got really pretty crazy. I would say when I was about eight, certainly when I was nine, it was it was terrible. And um whenever my mom would would sober up from one of her binges, she would swear that she was never going to drink again. And invariably she would. And and and I I I say this because I think I really really understood the concept of the disease of alcoholism very well because when I would come home from school and find that my mom was drinking, I would I would say to you know, mom, you said you were never going to do this again. And she would explain to me that this time it was going to be different. This time she was only going to have a couple. And I remember knowing that that was not the case. And that's kind of the the reality of alcoholism is that the alcoholic once they start drinking, they cannot stop. They've lost control. And and that it's it's a characteristic of alcoholics. The idea that that they the illusion that one day they're going to control and enjoy their drinking. and and uh and they pursue this illusion into the gates of insanity or death. That's that's uh how it's described. And I understood that. So I knew if mom had one drink, I knew that all bets were off for days or weeks. You know, you talked about lineage like Yeah. the family line. Yeah. What is what is that then? Is that is that a predisposition? Is that a genetic predisposition in your view or is that a a generational trauma? You know, did you have you ever figured out what causes that? I understand there to be a genetic component to the alcoholism. Um I don't know that it really matters um as much like like why one becomes an alcoholic, but um certainly as I said on my mom's side of the the family, it never skipped a generation. I mean, it got everybody. And the insanity of it, I mean, one could really describe it as as a mental illness. I mean, they they do say it's a disease that's centered in the mind. Um, for me to see and experience what I did as a child, like just how how awful it got. And then for me to just pick up a drink is is so is so insane. I mean I if if anybody should have known better, it should have been me. And I remember at the time like 16 years old when I when I started drinking regularly, I just uh convinced myself that what would make me different is that I was going to enjoy it. I was gonna but I was gonna party and uh it's just insanity. That that speaks to the nature of the addiction and the disease though because people people that are outside of that situation might see it as um self-destructive. But clearly, you know, clearly it's it can't be that. It's clearly something else because you saw how destructive it was, right? And yet it's still through no choice you made, through no intention you made, it it managed to to find you later in life. Did what your father in this context, is he aware that your mother's has this disease of addiction with alcohol? Um, mom would really do her best to get her act together by the time dad got home from his business trips. um a and with very little success. I would say when dad would get back, mom would describe that that she was ill and and and dad would believe it a lot of the time. I think dad uh I mean, yeah, he knew, but uh but the extent of it and um how naive he was to to believe that mom just wasn't feeling well or did he did he did I don't know. I mean, we we we would describe it as rosecoled glasses. Um, I don't know. And and perhaps dad was just so focused on his stuff that I mean, I don't even know. It would be crazy to not know, but somehow I believe that my dad was particularly naive or or gullible. I I'm not sure. But sometimes I think men have a predisposition to avoid conflict. Yeah. And to opt for an easy life, right? Uhhuh. I think that that that's probably fair, too. But man, it's um it just makes me really sad that uh that that I lost my mom. Yeah. I I lost my mom in in 2003. um November of 2003. And um I just like I think had we both um been in recovery, I don't think anybody from my mom's side of the family ever managed to achieve long-term sobriety, I think I'm the first. And I just I fantasized about what it would be like to for for my mom and I to have both gotten, you know, gotten it. What like what our relationship would be like. She would get such a kick out of it. I think that she would have gotten such a kick out of um me being successful and she didn't get to see it, you know. She never she never Well, [clears throat] the thing Jackass had just started to move at that point, hadn't it? Well, the thing was that her last five years she um was terribly disabled both physically and mentally because in 1998 she suffered an aneurysm which le which uh yeah it um rendered her ve very disabled. So the last five years it it she she didn't she she had a really rough last five years and and that um traumatized me more than anything. She developed bed sores. She uh she cried in pain for for her last five years. It it was the most upsetting the mo the by far the most traumatized I've ever been by anything was the situation that my mom was in for her last 5 years. And um yeah, and it's all because of this this uh this thing, this alcoholism and and had again like had she been been in recovery, had that not happened, had like we I just again I fantasize about what our relationship might be like today. But yeah, that started us off on a bummer. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. It's it's really interesting context though. Specifically this, you know, you said the thing about attention and seeking attention from um in a variety of different ways because you were destabilized in terms of your school, early schooling life. Your father's not present. I I read that you'd said that um you wanted your father's approval and as a child your father would praise you for physical stunts such as Yeah. ah diving head first um for baseballs or doing push-ups for your father's and his friends. I would do a hundred push-ups in a row for his buddies and he'd give me like $1 and that everybody got a kick out of that. I love doing it and uh I don't think they were terribly impressive push-ups because hundreds a [laughter] lot. But um but yeah, I I I was a little bit of a of a performer at my dad's behest. I think there's this thing called Love Languages. Have you ever seen it before? Have you ever done the Love Languages test thing? No. It's this thing you do online and I think it's pretty telling. I'm not into like pseudo [ __ ] whatever, but it I think it's pretty telling and it basic you answer these like 30 40 questions and it tells you the language of love that you have. So some people are words of affirmation. That's how they kind of show and receive love. Some people are physical touch. Some people are little acts of service. Some people are gifts, for example. And it was making me when as I was reading that in your in your book, I was thinking about how like that can become a love language for us. And it's funny cuz then I skipped to this moment later in your story where you had a heartbreak and the way that you responded to the heartbreak to try and get attention was by doing stunts. Yeah. And I just saw this connection there and I thought, you know, it's interesting. Some of our love languages can be like stunts or [laughter] Sure. or other forms of like validation. Uhhuh. Uh it's an interesting take on it. I remember um at the point when I had the heartbreak and that was when I when I really started doing dangerous stunts. Um, it it was less for Well, yeah, it was for attention. And I wanted this this this girl who had dumped me to uh to be worried that I would die [laughter] like uh I mean, it's crazy. But yeah, I was like I was jumping off rooftops into pools and and you know climbing off of like just huge balconies and stuff and um and sending her the videos or just posting them where she um at the time there was no such thing as sending videos without going to the post office. [laughter] But yeah, I would send her in mail videos from the post office. I would mail them to her like once a year [laughter] and and and the videos genuinely did get rder and rder. [laughter] Yeah. Each new installment. It was uh it was Yeah, it was crazy. If I'd asked you when you were a young man in your teenage years, what are you going to be when you grow up? What would you have responded? Ah, man. The first actual thought I had for a career to pursue was um one in advertising. You know, um my father had won a video camera in a golf tournament and I stole it from his closet and began videotaping my skateboarding with my buddies. And and I learned how to edit by plugging these video cassette recorders together. And I would hit play on one and record on the other to just record the the good bits. And and it was crude editing, not sophisticated. Um but uh I fell in love with the process and clearly I wasn't that great at skateboarding. So, um I just thought there's something about this uh capturing video and then editing it to, you know, I mean, create presentations and ultimately to manipulate the video to create influence. You know, there was just something really magical and powerful about that. And um I I thought that that would be a great career for me. And so I went off to the University of Miami to pursue that, but I just had trouble making it to class. So I I graduating from university was not in the cards. And I I I knew I still loved the video camera and, you know, manipulating images to to sway people one way or the other. And um I decided that since I wasn't that great at skateboarding that I would do crazy stunts. And so I literally dropped out of university in 1993 to pursue a career as a crazy famous stunt man. And there was no precedent at the time. Like everybody who I explained that plan to [laughter] legitimately felt sorry for me. like what a tragic loser I I seemed to be. A and they weren't wrong. For the first uh three years after I left the University of Miami, I was genuinely homeless. I was um more of a couch surfer than, you know, a a guy living on the streets. Um but yeah, I had no home, man. And um I was not doing well. Quick one before we get back to this episode. Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. Means the world to all of us. And this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people who watch this channel regularly and have hit the subscribe button. Means more than I can say. And if you hit that subscribe button, here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to, and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. Thank you so much. Back to the episode. There's so many things that I want to ask this question because I just really want to hear it in your own words, which is like, and I've I'm trying to maybe piece it together using some connected dots, but why stunts? I have a theory that um that the the human condition is one of a a real catch 22. We've got one instinct which is to survive and one guarantee which is we won't survive. And I and I view the human experience largely as an exercise to come to terms with our mortality, to wrap our heads around it, to become to come to peace with it. And um I I view the different ways that people do that. Um you know there's there's reproduction, we have children. So then I I think uh that eases people's mind about their mortality because they're they have a legacy living on with their children that they they won't really be dead. Then of course people turn to religion because they think everything's going to be great when they go to heaven. And and then there's people who leave stuff behind to outlive them. You know, like cavemen scrawling stick figures on the on the cave. It it seems that they they were just like I described really upset about their mortality and and leaving this art on the cave walls to outlive them because I had failed in in university the way the way I did. I mean I failed every which way that you can and every attempt that I had ever had to be employed ended in disaster. I was fired from literally every job that I ever had. So, not being able to uh make it through school or keep a job, I felt absolutely just not qualified to navigate the world. I I I I've I believed that I was going to fail at life like badly and and quickly. And um I think that this idea that that I that I I believed that I was just going to fail at life and die very young. I think that it heightened my my mortality issues because even though you know I was I was young but like man think I was somehow ang angry at the idea of of death and and my theory is that I was uh I was lashing out at death by by climbing off of balconies and and just dangling from my hands off like 12 stories and and letting go and dropping onto the balcony below. Like that was totally life-threatening, especially how intoxicated I was while doing that. And um [clears throat] you know, like like I said, I wanted that girl who dumped me to think I was going to die. like there was this this this idea of mortality was was very woven into all all of uh the art. And so I think that I was I I was I was upset about mortality and and lashing out at it. I was mocking death, taunting it. What? Why you? Because that that is I understand at a certain level we all probably have that relationship with our mortality, but you seem to more than anyone I've ever spoken to have had a more close and adverse relationship with the concept of mortality, the concept of death. Like you seem to the way the way that I'd word it plainly is like you seem to have the biggest problem with death than than anyone I've met. All right. Why? [laughter] Um, I think about it, you know, I've always thought about it since you were young. I'd say so. Yeah, I would I would absolutely say that. I I I I seem to recall being quite young. I I I wouldn't know an age, but quite young and and being in the bathtub just for some reason I was thinking about it's going to be the year 2000 and and like we weren't really anywhere near the year 2000. Um but just kind of doing math in my head trying to calculate how old I would be at the turn of the millennium. And I I came to uh 25. I'll be 25 years old. And and the thought was, I'll never live that long. [laughter] No, I'll never make it that long. That um and again, I don't know how old I was, but I was definitely a child when I had that thought. And um and and the the older I got, the more convinced I was that that um I wasn't going to live very long. And and perhaps, you know, that's, you know, another manifestation of of my alcoholism. But I think that that I think that really to describe alcoh alcoholism there's there's a like I felt defective, you know, I felt like there was just something wrong with me that uh things weren't going to work, you know, and I think that that that to some extent is a a characteristic of alcoholism for a lot of alcoholics. feel like just uncomfortable in your own skin. They describe it as restless, irritable, and discontented. Um, defective is a word that really resonates with me. Does that does that ever subside? It's a tough one because um I don't think so. I mean to an extent yeah I I I'm definitely better with all that now like what but at the same time it doesn't go away. I think that it it it improves and and you know fluctuates and but um what doesn't go away is this this default setting I have that everything's not going to be okay. You know, I live in this perpetual state of of terrible anxiety and stress that just things are not going to be okay and I've got to just hurry up and frantically work and hustle to try to make it so everything will be okay. I'm not surprised to hear that because it is the story I've heard over and over and over and over and over again. S. Okay. Okay. No. [clears throat] And it surprises me because when before I started doing this podcast and having these conversations, I assumed that, you know, something, you know, have a certain upbringing, childhood, you're programmed in a certain way, you go to therapy and it's fixed. Yeah. And it's actually been I' I've asked the question purely because I've never heard anyone say anything other than what you've said. Right. So, you know, and I think it's actually helpful because it helps people know that they're not their efforts to heal in whatever context that they've tried to heal um doesn't make them inadequate. It makes them very much human that, you know, the way that we're we're programmed and hardwired because of whatever reasons, you know, it it is um it is it is not something that is easy or in many cases possible just to therapy away or to prescription away. And I think that's makes people a lot of feel people feel better. And and what what's crazy too is that I think and I'm fascinated that they that you say this is something that you've heard many times and I've never not heard it. Right. Um, and and I would also guess that for all of the the successful people that you've spoken with that they would describe having been much more at peace, much much more serenity, much more happiness before they were successful. Yeah. Yeah. and and um and it's so counterintuitive to imagine that that's the case, but um there there's one saying that I think really explains it to a degree, which is that this is the saying, um a man who has nothing only has to worry about his next meal, but a man who has everything worries about his last meal. [laughter] Yes. And that that messes me up, man. That messes me up big time because if you're just focused on the next meal, then you're in the moment. Life's, you know, pretty pretty simple. It's not too much of a task to to accomplish finding your next meal. But once you've got your next meal covered, then it's like, all right, then I've I've saved up some money. My I'm I'm good. My next meals are set for for the next year. And but then now you're thinking, how long am I set for? And once you start thinking, how long am I set for? Then then then life gets really scary when when because you're not in the moment and you're you're future tripping and everything isn't going to be okay. And then and and and what's even crazier is that I understand that there's been studies about um financial security and it's people who have upwards of $10 million net worth who who find themselves feeling considerably more financially insecure than than than than anybody who has less the more money you have the more financially insecure you feel. The study that I read about this it says that um they interviewed people all the way up the wealth income spectrum and they asked them the question how much money how um how happy are you out of 10 and then they asked them the second question which is how much money would you need to be 10 out of 10 happy and all the way up the wealth spectrum people said three times currently what they have now. So millionaires said they needed 3 million. People with 10 million said they needed 30 to be a 10 out of 10 happiness. And people with 100k said they needed 300k which speaks to this sort of like hedonic endless treadmill um and increasing anxiety, right? A and um also studies are pretty clear that um happiness will increase up to like a baseline it's like 75k household. Yeah, I think that that number is just going up with inflation. I understood it to be like 60,000 60,000 a year and then you've got all of your needs met and then after that more money doesn't really equate to more happiness. And also to your point about the the panic of like losing it, I think that's a an issue for people that came from nothing predominantly. So if you've always had this financial security growing up and you're you're you know you were I don't know extremely wealthy or and you've been wealthy, I think people tend to have less of a fear of going of losing it all and they also never seem to have the guilt. I sit here with people and they speak to this success guilt they have and [clears throat] I hear that a lot and it it's typically people that have felt sleeping on a sofa that have the kind of even [snorts] when they become successful they feel like they don't deserve it to some degree and I read that a little bit in your story in your book right now it's interesting because I I grew up very privileged you know [clears throat] my my uh my my father didn't grow up with privilege as I said he broke the mold becoming a businessman. He became like my my mom didn't marry a a rich guy. My mom married a motivated guy who who became quite wealthy. Um I had privilege guilt when I was a kid. I was I was like quite ashamed of um of how wealthy my parents were and and I don't understand why that is but um in whose eyes and like I I I I was uh self-conscious about h about um how my peers viewed me at school. Um, as I grew older, the the homes that we lived in, each move to each, you know, represented a bigger house, you know, it it became a little bit obnoxious by by the end. Um, when when I was um attending high school um here in London, I went to the American school in St. Johnswood and I lived directly across the street from Regent's Park on Prince Albert Road. Oh wow. In this I mean it was a a just goddy obnoxiously huge house. And um I never wanted kids from school to see it. So um I uh you know we would have like overnights. When you're a kid you [clears throat] I wouldn't have kids spend the night at at my house. I was always overnight at at someone else's house. And um for me to ride my skateboard to to school, you know, it took a certain amount of time. And if I if I would oversleep, I would ride with my dad. My dad was chauffeur driven to work and and he would uh be reading his newspaper in the back seat. And and whenever I overslept and I had to ride with my dad, the chauffeur would pull up to the school and I as I got out of the car, I would hug the chauffeur. [laughter] Yeah. Like to try to create the impression that cuz I was just embarrassed. My dad was in the back seat like uh being chauffeered around. [laughter] Uh I I don't know what that is. Um wanting to fit in. It's every I was the opposite. Okay. In every respect. [clears throat] no one came to my house because it was like it was the windows were smashed and the grass was 6 foot high. Um so everything you described was me but the opposite for opposite reasons. Like I would I would pray that the traffic lights near our school would stop go turn red which meant that I could get out of the like this beat up van we drove in as far from school as possible. Yeah. [laughter] You worried you're hugging the chauffeur, right? It's really interesting too. Like I I went to a super privileged school too. I mean like uh I attended school with the son of the American ambassador to to the UK. Like I like my my best friend was this kid Abdullah. His father was like a crazy like oil tycoon. And uh when I when I when I was in for for me fifth and sixth grade I was in London, England at that time too. Same school. And my father was I'm not even quite sure what his job position was but but worked for Delmonte the canned fruits and he had to um uh you know like the all the p there was a pineapple factory in Kenya. dad had had to go visit this pineapple factory, I want to say maybe once a year. And so he planned the trip, his trip to the pineapple factory in Kenya to coincide with uh our our spring break, the one week off from from school so that he could take the family on safari. And I have this crazy memory of coming out of the airport in Nairobi, being ushered into some chauffeur driven car. I always remembered it as a a stretch limo. My dad says, "No, we didn't have it." But whatever. Ushered into a chauffeur driven car out of the airport. And um and sitting in the back of this car and these these just it was my first time seeing poverty, like real poverty. And these people were were clawing at the windows begging. And I'm just sitting in this car and and and just thinking, what did I ever do to deserve to be like I'm not a good kid, you know? Like I I'm just always in trouble like I don't do just like again feeling defective, you know, like and I was I really wasn't a good kid. I mean, I was always in trouble. Everything was just a disaster with me. And here I am inside the car that's being clawed at by these people who are barely clothed, you know, and just clearly desperate. And um that like that was a moment where I felt genuinely guilty, you know, I had a priv privilege guilt, you know, and that's that's worse than success guilt because, you know, a and again I did everything wrong. I was always in trouble. got terrible grades. And my sister, who was who is three and a half years older than me, she did everything right, got straight A's, the the the just did everything perfect. Somehow along the way, like my like my sister um went into a low earning career. She was a school teacher, which is notoriously underpaid, especially for how important of a job that is. um with the sing became a single mom with a special needs kid and and low earning and and it like kind of struggles, you know, like like life is hard for my sister and and like somehow me the the guy who just did everything wrong and then goes on to have this stupid career and and everything works out great for me. So when you said success guilt, I feel that I I feel like like what why, you know, why did everything work out great for me and my sister's having a tough time? And and I struggle with that, too. I actually um I uh I I I have a I I've always called it kind of survivors guilt, but but yeah, success guilt, same thing. You your mother um had a brain aneurysm in 98. You said um Jackass the pilot was in 99. Yeah. A year later. Yeah. You describe how your mother was ill for for roughly 5 years before she passed away and she was um disabled. You're very busy with jackass at that time. How do you do you deal did do you did you cope with it? because it doesn't seem to me that there's any anyone in your life really at that point or any experience that's going to help you deal with the concept of grief and loss, right? How did you cope with it if you did at all? Um, [clears throat] my parents divorced in 1991. I graduated from the American school here in London, the American school in London in St. John'swood in 1992. I went off to the University of Miami. Um the right around the time when I went to the University of Miami, my mom moved to Florida as well. Mhm. [clears throat] Then on that fateful day of October 10th, 1998, we received word that mom had this [clears throat] brain aneurysm. My sister and I flew to Florida from New Mexico. My dad flew to Florida from England. We all congregated around this this crisis with my mom. At one point, we went to a a nearby restaurant just to get a meal. I went outside to smoke a cigarette and my dad came outside and he initiated this conversation. He says, "I've been I want to tell you that I feel I've done a disservice to you by not supporting you in this path that you've chosen. My my path to be a crazy famous stunt man," he said. He said, "I chose a path that my father, you know, dad broke the mold becoming a businessman. The idea of that was pretty repugnant to his father and and he said that his father had the same conversation. Well, you chose something that I would not have chosen for you, but you're clearly committed to it and so I just want you to be the best and you know be the happiest and I pledge to support you. And I'm thinking, man, like it's tough because I'm a loser, you know, like the whole thing going on with my mom was was kind of prevalent, but this the side [clears throat] conversation like I just felt like, wow, you know, like now dad supports me and I I I I just did I didn't feel very very hopeful, I don't think, at that time, but it put a lot of wind in my sales. So the next year I saw this advert on television for a show called Real TV where they're saying if you got if you have video home video footage that's crazy and you think that we should have it on our show then call this number and I called the number and sent them my video tape and they wanted it and uh and dad helped me negotiate the the license deal with them and uh it was meaningful. You know, the this pursuit of becoming a crazy famous stunt man had made my father and I as far apart as as you know, it really really made us not our relationship suffer. Mhm. And then ultimately it would bring us together. And today my dad is 80 years old, been retired forever, but he's come out of retirement and I he's on my payroll. He uh manages like all kinds of uh business stuff for me, all my insurance stuff like and um it's crazy. It's insanity [clears throat] that that that you just again what what what drove us so far apart brought us so close together. And that catalyst moment was your mother's brain aneurysm. Really? It was. That conversation might not have happened. And then it it it was and now now you pointed to when Jack asked her to I wouldn't des well. Okay. Um, my sister and I both moved from New Mexico to Florida to be with your mom. To be with my mom. Yeah. And my sister naturally assumed the role of of caregiver for my mom. And um I I got this opportunity to go uh be a circus clown on cruise ships and it just made sense for me to do that, you know, like um I think that my overall attitude particularly like even going off to work on cruise ships and then with you know with with Jackass, I don't think that I had any level of like guilt about it. I think that my my attitude about pursuing my own career and to be, you know, with jackass and everything else, my attitude was that rather than let this aneurysm destroy everything that that I've I've really strongly wanted to get out there and really make something of myself and that that would be the way to honor my mom more and and make my mom proud that way. People don't often appreciate how difficult it is for the everybody around the individual that's that's sick. And I've again I've learned that from doing this having this conversation about just how sort of debilitating and difficult it is for everyone around the individual, especially when they're in a situation where they become disabled. And your mother's situation was, I mean, she she she couldn't move from what I understood. She wasn't necessarily speaking. She was wheelchair bound. She uh had to be lifted out of bed and into a wheelchair and and back. And could she she could speak? [snorts] She could speak, but there there it fluctuated how present she was, how aware she was. Um one of the more aware moments I said, "Mom, I'm going to have a book written about my life." and she uh she said, "And who's going to write this masterpiece?" [laughter] You know, she was making fun of me and it was funny like uh the last time that um that my mom ever laughed was I I came home um with the words [ __ ] and [ __ ] tattooed on my knuckles. And um mom was in the hospital at that point with the do not resuscitate order on her bed. Like this was this was the end. Like it was about a month before she passed. And um I I I walked into her hospital room and I just didn't, you know, it was just a tough situation. I didn't and I just said, "Hey, ma, like check it out and I held up my my knuckles to her and she she she looked at it and she said, "Shit [ __ ] [ __ ] fuck." And then she said, "My son is a [ __ ] fuck." and she like she laughed and and it's just the most beautiful I thought it was just the most beautiful thing like uh she's able to laugh and you know and um yeah it's tough man that whole thing's tough and and and the toughest thing is just imagining when uh when I was struggling in the beginning like like prior to her an annual ism. Like there were times when uh I'd show her one of my videos. I said, "Mom, check it out." She says, "Oh yeah, that that's great, but like h how how is this ever going to like earn you anything?" [laughter] You know, like she didn't ever seem to be like terribly concerned for my safety. of those shorter videos of like jumping off of bridges and [laughter] like, you know, doing stuff that was like really pretty dangerous and and uh appeared to be life-threatening and and that never seemed to upset her. What what she was upset about was that uh that I I was I didn't have a pot to piss in. And she would say, "You don't have a pot to piss in. Like, how am I supposed to be impressed by this? Where's this ever going to get?" you know, how's this ever gonna? She would say, "Show me the money, [laughter] you know, show me the money." Like, how is this going to get you the money? And um man, like given that that that was her position on it and I think that that she was um largely concerned with the appearance of things and and um like less she wasn't ever I never got the sense that she was worried for my safety on any level. I think that what she was concerned with was how I reflected on her. Interesting. you know, like my son's a loser. This is a bummer. You know, she was bummed that I was a loser because that reflected badly on her. And um that's just that's what was important to her. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. And um is that why you want her you'd like her to be able to see? God, yeah, man. That's the toughest thing to imagine if uh if we if if she she had been to rehab many times. she was in the program of recovery, but she just couldn't hang on to that, you know? She would always she would just always end up drinking again. And um I think that what would what would cause her to relapse was was the you know trauma from the breakup with my dad, which was just a vicious cycle because what broke her up with my dad was her drinking. and then the trauma from the the divorce would make, you know, it's just a vicious cycle. But um had she gotten it, had she really really grabbed onto it and not let go and been in recovery and and both of us like she would have just gotten such a kick out of like being on being on the red carpet at a big movie premiere and she would just be letting me have it, making fun of me for the dumb [ __ ] I was doing in the movies. Like we'd be laughing. So that was one thing. My mom had like a sense of humor. She had She was cool, man. She was cool. And we would we we related to each other a lot. You're you're 29 November the 7th she passes away. Correct. A mixture of emotions. I read in your book um in Professional Idiot, page 194, the overwhelming emotion I felt afterward was was relief. Sure. Yeah. She like she it this the suffering was over, you know. It was it was merciful like that. There was nothing upsetting about my mom dying. It was what was upsetting was the the pain and the suffering that she had endured for the five years leading up to her death. Do you ever process that? We talk a lot about these days about grief and we understand that grief is a thing and I don't think we ever did before. Do you did you ever process that? If I did, it was years later in recovery and and digesting the concepts in that book, Conversations with God. That was when I finally Uh the that that was when I just developed the idea that mom wasn't alone, you know, that mom was uh she wasn't alone. She like that that was an experience that she had as God. And then somehow that just that it's it doesn't change anything but it changes everything. Alone. Why why the word alone? Why was that the concern? Yeah. Just because the I mean it it's uh like on on a bigger level like mom mom's this one thing, you know? So there's no such thing as alone. At the same time, jackass starts taking off, right? So that's roughly around that time your fame goes through the roof. Yeah. Well, mom's aneurysm was 1998. I worked on cruise ships for six months of 1999. I worked in a circus at a flea market for six months in year 2000. And Jackass came out in October of year 2000. And then yeah, everything the movie comes out 2002. Yeah. Um you're 28 years old at that time. Your mother passes when you're 29 the next year. These two things have almost happened at similar times. Your trajectory has started to skyrocket. Your mother has passed away. Lots to deal with, lots going on. Fame is this new thing in your life now and attention and as you said earlier, like worrying about the next meal is maybe sometimes a better problem than worrying about the last. Um, this strikes me as as a real difficult moment in your life. Um, I I the from Professional Lydia, which I [snorts] read, it said, "By by mid 2007, I was practically living on diet coke, booze, and nitrous." A not diet coke, a diet of cocaine. Oh, cocaine. [laughter] [ __ ] I DIFFERENCE. It was a It was a diet of coke. [laughter] Big difference. Um, you were hallucinating and hearing voices. Yeah, big time. It's called psychosis and and it's a fascinating um it's a fascinating thing that um there are so many different substances one can ingest that might bring about this phenomena of psychosis. yet there's so much similarity between the experiences people have with it uh even though they take so many different avenues to get there. And that's partially why I believe that psychosis um that there's uh sort of different compartments maybe dimensions and that um we're in our in our human experience we're uh in a distinct compartment uh and that psychosis happens when you erode the the barriers to the other compartments, other dimensions. And by doing that with with chemical substances, um we erode the barriers, kind of open ourselves up to energies from other dimensions. um you open yourself up to like all levels of it. So you can really let in demons, you know, like like demons being lowlevel frequency energy and angels like being higher level and [clears throat] by uh just consuming enough substances. I I I really believe that you erode the barriers, you open yourself up to all these energies and um in comes flooding demons and and angels. that that's how I characterize my experiences with hallucinations. Um all that stuff is uh demon activity with some angels mixed in. Um I was reading about this thing called the rad email list. Oh yeah. where you sent an email to a lot of people which I think ultimately sounds like one of the things that brought about an an intervention but right [clears throat] it wasn't one email it was more of a uh stream a barrage I was inundating a list of 200 roughly 200 people many of them very influential people in the the entertainment industry, celebrities and agents and just powerful people, you know, media personalities. Um, a and I was just inundating these 200 people with emails at all hours around the clock and and effectively broadcasting my downward spiral in real time. and and I would send at times really funny stuff, you know, at times uh just deeply alarming stuff. I was, you know, I I was I knew that how out of control I I was and it but but I but I was just I was rad. I mean, I was out of my mind. I was out of my mind and I was making that abundantly clear by uh sending video. YouTube had become a thing. YouTube started in 2005. So 2007, YouTube allowed me to make really disturbing videos and then email the links to 200 people. If I was a flyer on the wall in 2007 in your life, what would I have seen on an average day? In 2007, I was renting four apartments in one building. One of them I just demolished the walls and built a skate park throughout the whole apartment. Um, with permission from the landlord? No, not at all. No, no permission whatsoever. And it was just with the there the the I remember there was like a Russian prostitute operation um in the adjacent apartment. So they weren't trying to complain about the noise. There was a stairwell uh on the other side and beneath was the the parking garage. [clears throat] So it was um there there were never any complaints for that. And then um a little bit down the hall was uh I had um a couple of my buddies living there. One of one of them was uh you know edited stuff for me but we very very rarely Well, I mean he would he thinks he works hard. Yeah. I mean I I had people like on salary and they they didn't do too much but when I was really out of my mind and these disturbing videos that I wanted to email the links to the rat email list my editor guy was in charge of that. Um, so yeah, I had the the office, the skate park apartment, the office apartment, [clears throat] and then I had an apartment for the assistant. The assistant really didn't do anything um except uh explain to people that she couldn't get a hold of me [laughter] and change my flights uh when because I would always miss my flights. [laughter] Um, and then I had my apartment which uh was this is sort of a is where all where all the really crazy stuff happened. That was that was just my little drug den. And um I would I would inhale this nitrous oxide stuff and and it would come in these little cartridges that people used to make whipped cream. And a box of these nitrous oxide cartridges would have there would be 24 cartridges per box. But if you bought a case, there would be 25 boxes in the case. And I believe that 25 time 24 comes to 600. Um, and so I would sit down with 600 cartridges of nitrous oxide and just inhale like the the the thing that the cartridge goes into this canister. Correct. Yeah. But I'd have two of them. Oh. So I would, you know, crack I would crack one open, fill that and inhale it with my lungs filled with nitrous oxide. I would be busy filling up the next one so that when I exhaled the nitrous from the first, I would then inhale just so I would not brea I was I wasn't breathing air as like uh I was brea I was inhaling nitrous oxide to the exclusion of breathing air. I mean, as much as possible. And my my goal at all times would be to lose consciousness because if you um you know, if you do that and you hold your breath, you you will become unconscious and you're kind of twitching and and flopping around and and uh your lips are all blue and then and then you come back to and and it would uh it's not not healthy. And I would be doing that and I would be doing that for days on end while um snorting cocaine. So it was on on like the second and particularly on the third day of being awake on a cocaine binge while inhaling nothing but nitrous oxide. Um, that's when the the most profound psychosis with all of the hallucinating would be going on. You sent out on that rad email one time, suicidal ideiation. Yeah. I I I uh I um I mean I was going so crazy in this apartment and um I uh very loud and and and um destructive in there. And and the the next department over was a a lawyer in his first year of being a lawyer. Uh so you know like um a a guy who cared about work and I was just making all kinds of noise at all hours and so he was he would call the police this my neighbor it's insane you know and um the more that the police would show up at my apartment the angrier I would get at the lawyer who was calling the police which is a little bit backwards and that was kind of my mo like I would I would wrong people and then I would resent them for their perfectly natural response to being wronged by me. [laughter] Mr. So I would uh you know I would bang on the guys. I would really antagonize this this poor lawyer guy. And um at one point it it got to uh to the level where pounding on the wall. I actually pounded a hole in the wall. And um I pounded a hole, you know, on my side there's the there's the the the drywall and then in between there's like the fiberglass stuff and then then there's his side throughout. I actually this one night pounded all the way through his side of the wall, too. So, I was actually looking into [laughter] his apartment, which of course constitutes vandalism. So, when he called the cops this time and the the cops showed up, they had no choice but to actually arrest me for vandal. He said, "Look, they put a hole in my wall." So, they um were here to arrest me. And I was um really really uh out of it. um like having been snorting both cocaine and ketamine. So, I was super out of it and didn't put it together that I was being arrested and going to jail with a bag of cocaine in my pocket. I mean, I probably could have. It would make sense that. And I remember it was funny, too, because they said that I was barefoot and I had no shirt and they said, "Well, we have to take you to jail. we have no choice but we will let you go put a t-shirt put on a shirt and some shoes which which was the perfect opportunity for me to go into my apartment and remove the bag of cocaine from my pocket but I didn't do that and I said you know [ __ ] a shirt [ __ ] shoes [laughter] so I went to jail completely barefoot and shirtless [laughter] with a bag of cocaine in my pocket and um and Then when they, you know, when they process you into jail, they search, you know, your pockets, they found the cocaine, then they arrested me again. So, I was now I had a felony cocaine possession charge as well as the vandalism charge and and this was like pretty well publicized the you know the fact of the cocaine and you know the arrest and um when I was released from the jail I was in there for like uh I want to say like three days because the consensus among anybody who loved me was he's better off in jail. So there was no concerted effort to bail me out, which was why I managed to stay in there for I believe about three days. And then when I finally did get released from the jail after the three days and I returned to my apartment, there was an eviction notice on the door. So my response to that was, "Oh, okay. Well, I'm being evicted." And I went into the apartment. I found more vials of ketamine that I had stashed in there and I cooked that all up and um within a couple hours I was like screaming about God like while jumping up and down on a parked car and like dealing with more cops. You were you were manhandled into a psychord, right? Like Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I went on this this this predigious final bender and and uh I was running out of time before I had to get my stuff out of the apartment. I was evicted. So the email to the rad email list was, "Hey, I have to have my stuff out of this apartment because I've been evicted, but before I have to be gone, I want to uh jump a motorcycle. I want to ride a motorcycle through the living room and off a ramp and jump it over onto the building next door, which was very very small gap. [laughter] It was not there. It was hardly even a big stunt. And and it was like two and a half stories up. Uh I think I was on the third floor, but it was really like kind of two and a half. So maybe like 20 25 feet. And I I said on the rad email list, and I als I want to jump the motorcycle onto the roof next door, and I want to jump out of the bedroom window into a hot tub. You know, I said, "So, Knoxville, bring a camera crew and a hot tub. And if you can't do the hot tub, at least bring some cardboard boxes. But I'm jumping out of the window. And I'm jump, you know, and if you don't come, I'm jumping out of the window anyway. I'm going to jump. I'm going to find out how many bones break when I land on the sidewalk 25 ft below. I'm ready to die. Like I was I was like promising that I was going to jump out of the window and and break bones on the concrete below and that qualified me for the psychiatric evaluation. And they they staged an intervention. They staged an intervention. Yeah. I said not so Knoxville responded. I I forget if he responded with all 200 people on copy. Oh [ __ ] But uh but I said this I did this on the the rad email list with the 200 people and and um I said uh um if Knoxville responded. He says, "Okay, I'll be there." You know, I said, "Be here at 10:00 a.m. Be here at 10 a.m. I'm going to jump." And what his response was, he says, "Uh, can we do noon? What's with the early call times?" Sheesh. [laughter] So, we agreed on noon. I forget. I I don't think he was concerned with the early call times. I think what he was concerned with was having more time to uh to rally a, you know, a a group to really do the intervention. But, but by in that email exchange, I I was not scheduling a shoot for, you know, for jackass as I thought. I was actually scheduling my intervention and that's really where your life seems to have started to take a new direction although not linear in any respect. Well, I mean that that that intervention marked uh the beginning of my journey. I've been clean and sober since that day which is I mean the the intervention was March 9th. The intervention was March 9th of 2009. Wait, sorry 8. Yeah, March 9th of 2008. And if we don't count that as our sobriety date because it's the first day you didn't get loaded is your sobriety date. So my my sobriety date is March 10th of 2008. Ladies and gentlemen, as you know, Zoe is now sponsoring this podcast and I'm a proud investor in the company and I've been going on the Zoey journey myself. It all starts with this home testing kit you get sent in the post which measures your gut health, your blood sugar, and your blood fat. I've had this little device, this blood sugar glucose sensor on my arm, which came in the home testing kit to understand how all of the different foods that I eat dayto-day have an impact on my body. And it's been pretty unbelievable. A big thing for me is feeling tired after I've eaten something and not understanding why. Historically, I didn't understand. Now, I do understand. I had been eating I think it was like a rice stir fry with a bit of chicken and some chili sauce in there and I saw on my blood glucose chart on my phone which is connected to the device that Zoe sent me this huge spike and then later in the day I saw a huge dip when I started feeling that sort of post lunch slump and what will happen next is Tim tells me they'll take all of that data and give me my own personalized Zoey scores for any food so I can figure out what I should be eating and what I should avoid if I want to avoid those afternoon slumps. And if you want to get started on your Zoey journey with me, use the code. We've got an exclusive code here, CEO10, for 10% off. And let me know how you get on when it arrives. Back to the episode. Over 14 years sober. Over 15 now. Over 15 years sober. Yeah. Congratulations, dude. That's amazing. Honestly, that's incredible. It It's so incredible. And I don't say that to, you know, to be uh self-important or, you know, like like douchy. It's just the most profound gift like ever. And and I I believe strongly that you know this conversation began with this dark discussion of alcoholism and and and how uh just how terrible and and sad alcoholism is. However, as upsetting as alcoholism and drug addiction is, it's the only disease where once you treat it, you become a better version of yourself than you were before. And and that's really incredible to me because any other disease, the best you can hope for is to get back to as healthy as you were before you got sick. But for us sober alcoholics and addicts, like we genuinely become improved versions of ourselves. And the work you've done since has been incredible. I mean, you've taken on many professional pursuits. Um, your stand-up comedy became a professor of your life in 2013. Uh, 2010. 2010. Okay. I had the first time I had um gotten on stage in a comedy club and and uh performed what what I intended to be standup comedy was 2006. How did that go? Um, I thought it went a lot better than it actually did, but um but the first time I ever got on that stage, it it wasn't it wasn't a disaster. It became a disaster later. Um, but but in 2010, once I'd been clean and sober for just over two years, I I I pursued standup comedy in earnest. Why standup comedy? I know you've got a big tour coming up in the UK, but why standup comedy? I'm trying to understand the through line between the stunts. It's the the the through line is just attention seeking, you know. Um, the first time I ever got on stage to perform in a comedy club, uh, there was, it was 2006, I believe it was August of 2006, and, um, our second Jackass movie was, um, to be released a couple months later. Showed up at this comedy club. I walked in, had no plan for what I was going to do, and just observing what was happening on the stage with somebody standing there holding a microphone just speaking to the audience. Um, I thought there's no stunt that could possibly be crazier than that, you know, like I'm going to do my my my the craziest stunt that I could possibly do is no stunt at all. I'm going to stand there and speak into a microphone and try to make the people laugh. This was genuinely the most terrifying concept. And I was just wasted enough to decide I'm going to do that. When it became my turn to to get on the stage, um I had come up with one joke. And as I got on the stage, there were people they were aware of me. They were excited to see me. I felt like an excitement. [clears throat] Uh they they were there to have a good time. time they were they were rooting for me. I mean, of course, like [clears throat] get on stage. I was Steo Rad. They were I felt loved. I felt uh they were rooting for me. They wanted to have a good time. Terrified. I got I got on I was terrified. But but uh but it was it was just it was man it was uh it was electric, dude. And um you know I I said you know what's up everybody? I'm in the mood for a [ __ ] Does anybody want one? [laughter] And uh and and and I got a laugh, you know, like they'd laughed and I just was so happy about that. And um I couldn't have been on that stage for more than three minutes. Like um I got on and I got off. Just got out of there and it was a favorable experience and I decided that this was something I wanted to pursue. And you've been pursuing it ever since. There's a an awesome tour coming up in the UK from June 30th to July 14th, I believe, called Bucket List. That's right. And and which I'm coming to see. Oh, dude. I love that, man. Make sure that that happens. So, [clears throat] when when I started doing standup in earnest in 2010, um I imagined that I was that I was trying to establish myself as a stand-up comedian and that I was going to forge a career with with speaking into a microphone. And um and and I felt that I felt that I was well equipped to succeed in that endeavor because my life has been so just uh colorful like the experience that I've had in my life like to to to to mine my life experience for material in standup comedy. Uh it seemed very doable, you know, like I've got I've got stuff to talk about. So, I I felt that I came into standup comedy not with just an advantage and that I had um an audience, a profile, but I I just had interesting material to, you know, to to mine. And um clearly the world was not eager for the standup comedy of Steo. You know, I think that they're the bar for the stuff that I was known for, like to to go from like the the the the shocking like unbelievable like crazy visual stuff that I'd become known for and then appear speaking into a microphone. It seems like a mismatch and expectation. Yeah. Like that's always disappointment, isn't it? Right. like and and maybe this is from my own perception I'm not sure but with all of the self-doubt with all of the um you know ne negative self-t talk I just still persisted and um I I wasn't super successful in the beginning and like of course not but I was successful enough to get booked by comedy clubs and then be welcomed back and I would go around this comedy club circuit around the the United States. And I did just well enough to go back around the loop. And that loop lasted for 11 years in comedy clubs and and um I I tirelessly persisted. I I I genuinely didn't. I put in work and I developed this craft of storytelling and and standup telling jokes along the way. I taped two comedy specials. The first one was me and a microphone and uh some intermittent stunts I performed on stage throughout the act. Mhm. And as I put together what would become the next comedy special, I put together this this new act to tour with. It occurred to me that the stories I was telling in this new act had for the most part all happened on camera. And I had the idea, wow, what if for my next comedy special, I I perform the act, but in postp production, I edit into the special interstitial footage of these stories unfolding. A love that depth to the storytelling. Oh, dude, my head exploded. I got so excited. I I couldn't even I couldn't even stand it. Wow. like I'm going to have a my next comedy special is going to be multimedia. Uh that that one I put out myself. Um and uh and then it was time to put together the third show. So now I knew that for this third show, which is bucket list. The bucket list, correct? that I needed to film all new stuff which would lend itself to all new standup material and it had to be crazier than [ __ ] It had to be crazier than ever. And that's what people will see if they go. Okay. For sure. Th this uh there there were just ideas that came up over the years that were that were genuinely never supposed to happen on any level, but they were they were just ideas that I was so fond of because they were crazy things to say. I can't wait. The idea was to push things further than Jackass ever could. And there's no way that you do that and there's not a story to tell. You know, there's [laughter] like the the the challenges of of making these things happen. It's just there's uh it's inherently juicy material for standup. There's just no way around it. and and one step further is that um I've worked so hard on um developing the ability to be in a healthy relationship with a life partner. So I was just about to ask you this was my last question which was about Lux, right? My fiance Lux and and the the the bucket list show is every bit as much about these ultra highlevel jackass stunts and how they were conceived and executed. It's every bit as much about that as the implications of carrying out these bucket list items on my relationship with my fiance. What I was actually going to ask you about was specifically kind of the juxtaposition of what's making you successful here seems to me as a guy that's got into a relationship struggled to find a relationship for my own reasons with my childhood seems to be the antithesis the very opposite of what it takes to be successful in a relationship which is like the stability the I don't know the the the calm the right and over here we're seeking instability and here in a relationship there need I don't know there needs to be a certain stability that I think How well to derive one's self-worth and self-esteem from external validation uh the way that that we do in show business like for for for me to base my self-worth and self-esteem on how successful ful I am as Steo. It just plainly presents a dark and upsetting future as the spotlight waines, you know, like the the and and and I can't and this is something that that became very clear to me 15 years ago when I got sober was that for me to be happy and and healthy on any level, it is of paramount importance. that I find some separation between me and the persona of Steo. And um with that kind of ruminating in my mind and and as I when I got into the standup like I I was acting out sexually as much as possible on the road while doing standup and and at that time I was um in my late 30s approaching 40 and and it just occurred to me man this is not the the the the road to being happy and you know I got to learn if I want to be happy later in life I need to learn how to have a healthy relationship. That was a a belief that I subscribed to and I got to work on learning how to be in a healthy relationship. And thank God I did because I'm terrified of being a washedup old attention [ __ ] that nobody wants to pay attention to anymore. And being alone. And being alone. That sounds like the most terrifying like awful thing. And so what does it what does she mean to you, Lux? I mean she you said something earlier that uh that the the design for living in the 12 steps and this is in my you know kind of extrapolating on what you said you said that the principles of honesty openmindedness and willingness are helpful to all people and I'll take that a step further that the design for living outlined in the 12 steps is something that you don't have to be an alcoholic or an addict to benefit from. But what Lux is as a person is somebody who automatically does that stuff, you know? She's automatically honest. you know, she's automatically like open, willing, like like she's automatically does the right thing, you know, where I had to to really really work and train myself to be honest and to do the right thing, you know, and uh you know, she's just automatic. It's just automatic to her. and and Lux's capacity for love is so staggering. Like her, it's just so natural to her to to be loving and and it it blows me away. We both like with animals, we're out of our minds. We love animals so much. And um Cathy, the way that Lux loves me and the way that she wants me to love her, like just uh No, no, no. Hold like the way that we like hold each other. The way that like she's she's she's taught me to love. She's she's increased my capacity to love. And and that's that's the biggest deal, man. It's It's massive. Such a beautiful thing. Steo, thank you. So, Steo, Steven, thank you so much. Um, we we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest. Okay. Um, and the question that's been left for you is one of the most interesting questions that's ever been left. In fact, they don't know who they're leaving it for. Good. So, it's a totally They said, "What can Steven So, you've filled in the blank." No, no, no, no. They literally wrote, "What can Stephen?" Well, and they're talking about me. Oh, okay. I mean, if they spel they spelled it with your name with a ph. They say, "What can Steven, this beautiful man, improve about himself?" So, that's my quote. What can I improve about myself? It's They're asking you to tell me what I can improve about myself. Okay. Cuz they didn't know you were called Steven. So, they said, "What can Steven, this beautiful man, improve about himself?" Honesty. and you didn't speak about yourself very much, but but one thing that you did say um you seemed to point to the deficiency in your relationship with your girlfriend being that you're so consumed with work and uh that you said something about she wants quality time. you can't compensate for your uh you know all of your energy and time going into your career and that you want to compensate by with material things and and that but that she's no no interest in material things she wants quality time and um I think that uh that you and I both um have this uh this drive this this this hustle this this urge to succeed and um I think that uh that that both of us would do well to find our success in our relationships. Every study about about longevity and health and happiness 100% points to relationships as the source of happiness and true health comes from the quality of our relationships. Not the numbers in our bank account, but the quality in our relationships. So um I think that the the my answer for you is the same the same for me is just that uh you know that we should put the emphasis on our quality time in our relationships that we do on our hustle. And it's it's the the reason why I I don't is because I think of some of the stuff that I said earlier about like where I came from and being a poor family and all. So like my survival innately in me or my validation comes from my work. So I'm like being pulled by this like insecurity and the shame from my childhood over here like become [ __ ] become everything that you weren't and you know and then on the other hand my sense goes well Steve the happiest times in your life the the all the studies I've sat here with the guy that did that 95year-old study on um men and found that they live I think it's like 14 years longer if they have a meaningful relationship. I know logically, right? But then emotionally and the scar the scar tissue in me goes, "No, you need to validate yourself." Right? I'm being dragged by that still to you know, right? And hustle, but but not in a way that that undermines or or detracts from the quality of the relationships. Is that that's what you're doing? [laughter] I mean like uh I mean yeah [ __ ] Lux and I have a rule that that we we were not to be apart for more than two weeks. I love that. And and we spent two days together over the course of six weeks. We broke our rule badly. And that's not cool, man. Sucks. Yeah. So, um, if I wasn't so, you know, so so operating from fear, that's the that's the the difference. Hustle because you love it, not because you're not because you're afraid of the post-apocalyptic, [laughter] you know? And there's this concept I've been toying with a lot on this podcast between the distinction between being driven and being dragged. And sometimes I'm being dragged. Driven is the like intentional. Sounds like, you know, kind of the the intentional hustle with control over the hustle. Dragged is like [ __ ] fear. Like if I don't, then I'm not enough. And right, I've taken so much of your time. I dude, thank you so much. Really, really appreciate it. A pleasure to meet you and I've learned so much. Incredibly surprising, wisdomfilled conversation that graced so many different aspects. Um, I'm so excited to see Bucket List. I'm sure all of my audience are as well. The 13th is the date to be there, right? Hacking Empire. That's where I'll be. I'm looking I think that we might be able to open up some tickets on the 14th. Okay. [clears throat] Um but but I don't know and I don't know how many. I just know that as I sit here now the the show on the 13th just went live. So that's that's a whole show that I got to fill. So link is in the description below to get tickets in the YouTube description and on the audio apps. It's in the description below. And I hope to see you guys there. Thank you so much, dude. Thank you, bro. [music] A quick word on Hule. As you know, they're a sponsor of this podcast and I'm an investor in the company. One of the things I've never really explained is how I came to have a relationship with Hule. One day in the office many years ago, a guy walked past called Michael and he was wearing a Hule t-shirt. And I was really compelled by the logo. I just thought from a a design aesthetic point of view, it was really interesting. And I asked him what that word meant and why he was wearing that t-shirt. and he said it's this brand called Hule and they make food that is nutritionally complete and very very convenient and has the planet in mind. And he the next day dropped off a little bottle of Hule on my desk and from that day onwards I completely got it because I'm someone that cares tremendously about having a nutritionally complete diet. But sometimes because of the way my life is that falls by the wayside. So, if there was a really convenient, reliable, trustworthy way for me to be nutritionally complete in an affordable way, I was all ears. Especially if it's a way that is conscious of the planet. Give it a chance. Give it a shot. Let me know what you think. [music] [music] Hey. Hey. Hey.