Should I Join A Seventh Day Adventist Church?

Um, so yeah, I um I have no idea what to talk about because I was told like I should call in. So call in for what? >> I always did want to call in because I enjoy discussing theology and like I think >> that it's a commendable thing. There aren't there just really aren't a a plethora of people out there who want to try and teach and be like genuine about it like forthright not come with you know add whatever arguments and stuff and I I love that you go to the text and specifically like go into the concordance I think that's a beautiful testament to God's scripture is you know the thing that has the ultimate answers right >> but yes I don't know what to talk about because I brought you here. >> I was just told by them to call in because we were chatting about SDA and it's like >> Oh, are are are you the guy that that's going to a 7th Day Adventist church? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. That is the most accurate way to put it. I am that guy that is going to a 7th Day Adventist church. And I guess officially tomorrow will be a 7th Day Adventist, but a heretic because I refuse to hold to all of their 28 BaskinRobins flavors of >> Well, then why? >> Well, then why go? >> Well, because it I can't find any church that I agree to like every last bit of their doctrine really. >> Okay. So, what what attracts you to the Seventh Day Adventist Church? >> Okay. So, um, really ultimately it came down to going there. My dad was trying to help me get out of some depression. Um, trying to find things that would help me find meaning in life. And so, he was like, [clears throat] um, that one other place wasn't a good lead, but how about these people? And I'm like, okay, sure. And I'm like, well, it's a 7th Day Adventist church. That makes me think a little bit of something. But I went there and I met the people there and they were nice. And then so I ended up just volunteering there and it really did start to give purpose to my life being able to work at a food bank um to do something that you know we we are commanded to by God to correct injustice and you know if people are hungry that's injustice to me. So >> so um there are >> I started meeting people there and it was just a a natural organic outgrowth of that. The people I met there were mostly church attendees and then I was like, well, I want to be around these people more. I miss having fellowship. >> Okay, so let me say this. There are there are Muslim groups you could go to. There are Buddhist groups do the same thing. Nice people. There are nice Muslims. There are nice Buddhists, nice atheists, nice nice Protestants, nice Catholics, nice nice Seventh Day Adventists, nice Jehovah's Witnesses. Right? So it shouldn't be just that. If I'm going to go and attach myself to a gathering, assembly, um, there should be a doctrinal theological reason other than just, hey, we we I like these people, right? >> So, and that's actually tough. >> What is is there anything particularly about their doctrine, their belief that draws you there or is just the camaraderie, just a just relationship? Um, I mean, in general, the 28, whatever they call them, like in general, it's it's essentially similar to the what do you call that? The uh not the Westminster, that one's way too long. The Nyine Creed. Mhm. >> Like >> so I mean on on a basic level like the fundamental beliefs are like the same as most Protestant churches and then there's that huge schism when it comes to like how we interpret like Leviticus and Exodus and stuff and well and Acts and everything for that matter. Um, but then my contention with it is all the Ellen White stuff. Like I read I'm starting to read her book and like I've got this thing behind me and like I just put a post-it note every time I see something that gives me like Wait. Yeah. Every time I see something that gives me pause. So I make it like this far and I'm already really questioning like what she was saying and teaching. And I've heard people there be quite idolatrous of her. Like I've heard a bunch of people say, "Well, you know, Christ is like the one above all, but Ellen White's the second." I'm like, "I don't even know what to say to that, but it hurts to hear it." [laughter] >> It should hurt to hear it. Um now, and I I do know that every that not all SDA gatherings are alike, and some people hold to the the the actual church teachings, and some don't. Um there are a lot of things that the church holds to um formally that all church members don't adhere to. But I do know one of the things is that that by um people who I think I think it's a somebody some every time you say something some SDA members is going to come back and say that's not what we believe and another SDA member is going to say that is what we believe. But the belief that that uh the mark of the beast would be anyone that holds to a Sunday a Sunday worship >> uh the well then then what's the mark of the beast and revelation that that can't be it. So there are some teachings and again remember there's no seventh advent before the the mid late the mid to late 1800s. So it could not >> they consider themselves like a revival of tradition essentially right just like the orthodox churches consider themselves for better or for worse to be a continuation of tradition. >> Mhm. Here here's what's funny. Like with the Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church or the Protestant movement, there have been people we don't give enough attention to who have been outside of the Orthodox Church. Outside the Catholic Church, all believers were not part of the Orthodox or the Catholic Church. There are places that the Catholic Church just didn't reach. And so these folks, what does their worship look like? Just like pretty much like ours. And Jesus says that the gates of hell is not going to prevail against this this body. So, it's not as though that we went 1,000 years or 1,800 years or 1,500 years until we got it right. No, folks have been getting it right. And people have been striving for just to hear the word. And I cuz the average person when they hear the word, they tend to have a similar uh set of beliefs. And most people who just hear the word for example people who are in persecuted places of the world like uh Indonesia or North Korea parts of China >> uh North Africa where we don't have time for this for this following this organized group or anything like that. We just have the word we might die for it. Do you know how they tend to worship? Kind of like how we do. They're not looking for any fluff. They're not they're not ultra charismatic or anything like that. They are just we want the word. We love the word and we want to spread the word because we know that however long we're going to be here, this isn't our home. >> Well, and I mean ultimately the one phrase that resonates with me throughout the scripture is sackcloth and ashes. Like that's that's the the posture that you're supposed to have, the utter repentance. >> Mhm. >> And like that's the truest form of worship. Although I mean right I mean I honestly feel like a lot of these these um Protestant churches are are teaching sort of against it but >> okay now now what's going to happen is this >> that is also painting a wide a wide brush like I mean people of every belief in every denomination >> here's what's going to happen Brian because the Bible says so that people are going to move away from sound teaching they just are they're going to fall away from it they're going to fall away from the faith not from having faith but from the faith, they'll start believing things their fancy. >> Yeah. And so it should come as no surprise that you're going to see more and more of it. As a matter of fact, there going to come a point in time where the majority of Christians, professed Christians, won't look like actual biblical Christians and they'll look at us and call us Bible thumpers or or what have you. This is this is prophesied. Paul says it's going to happen. And so we got to get used to it. So, you're going to find that there are a lot of churches out there that I don't want to be at that church. But that doesn't mean that there won't be a lot of good churches. There are. There are a lot of good churches, people who love the Lord. And what we have to do is this, cuz I know some people, I got a buddy of mine who he's a he's a nitpicky Christian. Meaning, he goes to churches and he can't help but see what's wrong with the church. I don't like this. I don't like that. The the air conditioning is too cold. I don't like the color carpets. The music too loud. Uh why do they preach like this? All right, man. Okay, fine. So >> preachers a little too bald. No, that's bad. >> Yeah. So so people there there's going to be there's no perfect group of people but like you said if per person has that kind of humble way about themselves. I understand that this church isn't perfect which is why I'm here cuz I ain't perfect but I don't want to put myself in a position to where I'm doing things that go counter to the text. This is why this is one of the things that I have against right >> there. There are several things that I have against the SDAs, but but two of the things >> is the m I don't I don't have a problem with a person going to church on Sunday. I mean on Saturday, I have no problem with that at all. >> Right? >> If you mandate it as though it's part of the law, it's part of the ten commandments. Remember any part part of the law, any portion of it that you keep, Paul said, James says Paul says you are required to keep the whole of the law. [snorts] So, you can't just pick and choose. Well, we're supposed to go with the moral law, the Ten Commandments. Well, first of all, there's more than that. And by the way, the Ten Commandments aren't just the moral law, because the Sabbath itself is a ceremonial portion of the law. And so, and there are rules that go along with the Sabbath. I mean, heck, you can't have if if you live in a place where there's a pilot light on your stove or on your um um your hot water heater, you can't have a fire. There's certain things just because your whole focus is to sit back and relax with God. Now, I'm not trying to be too dogmatic about it, but what I'm saying is if someone else going to be dogmatic about it and hold themselves accountable to that, >> you got to be held accountable to all of that. And so, that means you also have to stone someone like myself for not keeping because the law requires if you don't keep the Sabbath. I mean, if you don't keep the Sabbath or someone else doesn't, they must be stoned by who? By the Sabbath keepers. And and I have heard and I have heard that particular like I have heard some particularly strong views like that and I have also heard I mean some much more subtle views. It's like I don't know I I suppose I don't see a whole lot of concordance. I see that like in the church that I'm going to in particular I mean I see for the most part that there's like a a lot of elders. the church is like mostly elders but like half of them are wellstudied and the other half are are not at all >> and um and I mean it's I don't know it's it's slightly worrying like somebody was pointing it out to me in chat earlier like I should be concerned if the church isn't really diving deep into doctrinal discussion >> um that often. Um, so, so >> but here's here's the one thing. Like I haven't heard anybody I know personally say say like they think that that that they can fulfill the law basically like that. I mean, I believe that anybody who's honest when they're reading the scripture is going to see that it's Christ that fulfills the law. So it's not like your works are going to result in in your salvation. But at the same time, when you read like James and when you read a lot of what Paul writes, you have to have a living faith. If there's no fruit, >> Oh, sure. >> like then you can't really be assured of anything. You you're just you could be a Christian in name only, which is a real worry. So, if you're a Christian, you're not going you're not going to want to lie. You might lie, but you're not going to want to lie. If you're a Christian, you're not going to want to be, you know, bear false. You're not going to want to commit adultery. You're not going to want to kill. >> If you're a Christian, well, by nature of you being a Christian, you only have one God. So, there are some things that were stated previously that are going to be reiterated also. And just by you having the spirit of the Lord in you and a brand new heart, you're going to want to fulfill those things. But but if you say and if you make yourself say I got to do this I got to make sure this I got to make sure that for example here's something that you can dogmatically religiously do that is let me keep this portion of let me keep this portion of the law the Sabbath it's a box to check off because I have to now you have subjugated yourself put yourself under the law now if I just enjoy on my Saturdays um just giving my time to the Lord it's my day off I'm that's different. I enjoy um not committing adultery, right? I enjoy not murdering. I enjoy not lying. Amen. I'm not checking off boxes to make sure I'm okay. Cuz Paul says this, remember this issue comes up because the Jews wanted these gentile believers to be like they were, which they weren't even good Jews themselves. So Paul says, if you are trying, look what he says. He says um I test I testify again that every man who receives circumcision which is that that is the command if you're going to keep the law that he is under obligation to keep it. Look at this word right here. He is under command to keep the halom tan that is the whole of the law. So when he says the whole of the law all of it >> all of it it's not you can't separate that and say it's just this portion just ten commandments. know the whole and I think it's very similar text in it's either Hebrews or Romans where it talks about and if you still sin then you you try to crucify Christ again something like that >> that is well okay so in in in uh Hebrews 6 he's talking to these Jews who all they know is the law now they are believers they're believing Jews and all they know so they're they're they're I mean it's all I know is the law so when I mess up >> I've got to repent in such a way I've got to atone for my sin And so his point is if you try to, it's impossible because Christ, the sacrifice that you had to bring you to him, that ain't going to happen again. There's nothing to put your faith in anymore because Christ is not getting crucified again. So, so the writer of Hebrews is trying to comfort them by saying, listen, you have a new command. You have a new covenant that is not fulfilled by your workings, but it's fulfilled by your faith. And so Paul says, that's why he says, "Are are you >> well, can I say it feels like the new covenant is worded like it's it's not a spirit of condemnation, whereas the law is is a bunch of things, but one of them is condemnation for those that fall under it." Right? >> It is soon when you mess up. Oh man, I got to which is the problem that they were having in the book of Hebrews. I done messed up. Now what am I going to do? Now I'm lost. So Paul makes this statement and and it's a scary statement he makes here in in >> he was was it to Timothy >> to where >> because I think he I'm trying to remember what he was tell was he not telling Timothy that he should get circumcised as as like a matter of making witnessing easier or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. He wasn't doing it because he has to because remember Paul is now fighting Galatians saying that you don't have to get >> circumcision but it gives them less of a chance to like argue with him about something. And they're like, "Well, you're not acting like a Jew." But he says, "Well, I got circumcised, so it's that's not about it, right?" >> Yes. So, >> I guess I'm bringing it up because it's it's like pointing out that like there's certain things that, you know, it falls under the law, but it's not Judaizing like he's doing it for a specific reason. Likewise, I guess my thesis is, you know, if you treat God's laws as just generically good, that like wanting to have the Sabbath, the the day of rest that he proclaimed for for for man is a matter of like respect for God. It's a matter of worship. It's not a matter of like believing that that one particular well I think for some people in the church I think they do believe that that one particular thing is so much more important and of course it's not like >> they do and so if that if that puts you in right standing with the Lord this is what Paul says he says you have been severed from Christ you've been cut off from Christ who who has you who those whoever it is who is seeking to be justified by the law even Even if it's one portion of the law, he says, "You've been cut off. You have fallen from grace because your goal is to be seen either by yourself or the world in right standing because you keep this vestage of the law. You keep this portion of the law." And so, because you're trying to do so, you've been cut off from Christ. Now, if you're doing it because let's say if if I want to give a tithe, I'm allowed to give a tithe. I should not obligate myself to give a tithe. If I say, "You know what? I think I just I just want to make myself give 10% just cuz I I love the Lord that much. I want to just honor him that way. But if I say I have to give 10%. Or I'm breaking God's law. I'm I'm sinning. Now we got a problem. So like you said, whenever you mess up now, what what who are you accountable to when you mess up? The law. Because you're following the law. It's like if you have a job and I would personally much rather be be accountable to the Passover than than the law. So, so here's the question though. Listening to what you're saying, why then are you going to a 7th Day Adventist church? >> It it ultimately it ultimately to me feels like like overall get their doctrine a little bit more right than like your average Protestant church. But ultimately, >> which doctrine would you say they get more right than the average Protestant? Um, like there's a good amount of of like I see people proclaiming that you have to be water baptized or like you're definitely unsaved. >> Like, well, there's a there's a split between Protestants. The majority of Protestants don't believe that, though. The majority of Protestants don't believe you have to be water baptized. We just believe that. >> Well, I I just happened to have gone to a church like most recently before this one that that's what they held to, for example. >> Yeah. Don't don't judge the don't judge all of it by some of it clearly because there are some people in the world who cannot get water baptized. There's just and but you know how it is. All we know is what we know here in America. >> They would drown if they Yeah. Right. >> There are some people who who are on a sick bed, some people who are in prison, some people who are in a persecuted part where they cannot if I'm in a prison in North Korea and I place my faith in Christ, do you think that they're gonna let me get baptized? No. So, so I don't know what So, what what other doctrine are you are you referring to? Maybe you just you just had bad experiences with some churches that really aren't Christian. >> Well, I I mean I don't really want to get into certain like heresies real per se. Like I just want to like to summarize it as overall the people that I met there, what they tell me they believe lines up more with what I read from scripture than like than like a typical church. But ultimately, I I really do have a problem with most typical churches because when I read like the Aanasian creed and the Nyine creed, I'm like, you know, I can get behind a lot of this, but like some very specific wording that you've got here, I'm not really like I I don't see that in the scripture. >> So, let me let me >> to me it's such a serious matter. Like if a church is to make me like swear an oath essentially like I want to know that it's 100% true to God's word. >> So let me give you this advice. I I've got to go ahead and run. But let me give you this advice. >> Yeah. >> Hold off on joining. Go ahead and keep attending. And then as your as your as your notebook fills up with different things that you're not you're not comfortable with, it makes it a lot easier to to to be led away by the Lord if you're not if you haven't aligned yourself or pledged allegiance so to speak. Bad bad way of putting it probably to them. I I do actually I would do that and and not swearing an oath but I do promise like I'm I'm not going to like um to like repeat the set of 28 principles or whatever like whatever happens like in the church is going to be like spiritled and not you know repeating anything at all. >> Mhm. All right brother. Well listen keep keep us update. Keep us updated. Keep coming back. Uh, and and anytime you got a question, you want to have conver. >> Huh? Say it again. >> I said it was good to talk to you for the first time. Hey, man. Good talk to you, too. Good talk to you as well, brother. Take care.